Otherworld Mafia - Aia - Over

[Tierce]

An almost 1 AM read-through of the thread tells me Vi is scum.
VOTE: Vi


Mountainous nightless with our likely town:scum distribution is scumsided.

[Tierce]

It's okay, I can deal with your sadness.

Also, note--we have no idea how many scum are in our thread (and that other one) right now, since the distribution of players was random. Conversation/reads between both threads should be productive for All Of Us Who Are Old School Town (read: not Vi), as long as we keep in mind we have to lynch here.

Do we want pseudo-votes between threads as well?

[Tierce]

I could have sworn the thread distribution was in order of the sign-ups list. That's what happens when I don't look at it again before passing judgment.

Still, yes, I think it is completely random. Non-random would be easy to game/study once players started flipping; makes a lot more sense for it to be random.

I don't think conversation between threads needs to be haphazard in any manner. You have two threads open, tab between them--if you signed up for a game like this, you should be expecting that kind of necessary behavior from everyone. We need to lynch here (hey--

@mods: what happens if the days don't end at the same time? Are the lynches only processed after both threads cast a hammer vote?

), but that doesn't mean you should stay mute about the other thread.

[Tierce]

Meanwhile, in Vasta...

This much is true. However, and Tierce has touched on this already, communication between the threads will be happening. Getting a lynch off on someone in the other thread will be a bit more difficult, but by no means impossible. Worst case scenario you and your scumread WIFOM all day on which thread to go to.

Why do you think you actually have to move about to get your scumread lynched in another thread? I intend to butt into your conversations and I expect the same to be happening in the reverse direction, Cronaloo.

Expecting your scumread to move/not move so you decide on whether to move yourself seems like an awful waste of time and/or night actions. Silly idea. Movement should be played out according to what actions you want to take/on who you want to take them, not to speak louder against someone.

And this reminds me to remind everyone--

proper use of quotes

to refer back and forth between threads is a lovely thing. Please do not trust timestamps to do the trick, soon enough it will be a pain to keep things together.

[Tierce]

Meanwhile, in Vasta...

@Tierce

: Careful. We don't want to reveal power roles as being the movers, exclusively.

Of course not. But trying to hound scumreads around seems a bit nonsensical. VTs can move since they have no night actions, but PRs moving just to follow scumreads when they could spend the night

being a PR

where they are, etc. If your target is elsewhere, fine, the logic is good, but don't turn this into a hopping portal fest. We are not GLaDOS's test subjects here.

(Oh god posting in the right thread is going to be hard.)

[Tierce]

Oh look, maybe Vi is Old School Town after all.

This guy isn't, though.
VOTE: DCLXVI

[Tierce]

I think this was missed:

@mods: what happens if the days don't end at the same time? Are the lynches only processed after both threads cast a hammer vote?

That makes the game effectively nightless mountainous, PeregrineV. Mountainous at 10:3 is scumsided--and iirc, the only way to make that balanced with 4 scum is like 50 townies. Do you expect to have less than 4 scum in a 26p game? I don't. Even with the advantage of making it nightless, I really doubt the effectiveness of that plan, especially since we don't know how many scum there are in each thread to begin with.

Korts has a point. Commenting on

discussion

about Vas

h

ta

Nerada

is probably best than direct interchanges, but I think we'll eventually get to an organic balance.

?

Unvote, Vote: DCLXVI

?

Short and to the point: You're scum.

[Tierce]

I think this was missed:

@mods: what happens if the days don't end at the same time? Are the lynches only processed after both threads cast a hammer vote?

That makes the game effectively nightless mountainous, PeregrineV. Mountainous at 10:3 is scumsided--and iirc, the only way to make that balanced with 4 scum is like 50 townies. Do you expect to have less than 4 scum in a 26p game? I don't. Even with the advantage of making it nightless, I really doubt the effectiveness of that plan, especially since we don't know how many scum there are in each thread to begin with.

Korts has a point. Commenting on

discussion

about Vas

h

ta

Nerada

is probably best than direct interchanges, but I think we'll eventually get to an organic balance.

?

Unvote, Vote: DCLXVI

?

Short and to the point: You're scum.

[Tierce]

That makes the game effectively nightless mountainous, PeregrineV. Mountainous at 10:3 is scumsided--and iirc, the only way to make that balanced with 4 scum is like 50 townies. Do you expect to have less than 4 scum in a 26p game? I don't. Even with the advantage of making it nightless, I really doubt the effectiveness of that plan, especially since we don't know how many scum there are in each thread to begin with.

There are at least two major problems with this post. Granted, there are major problems with a bunch of Tierce's posts, but I'll go ahead and say that it's obvious Tierce has never balanced or played a Nightless game.

No I haven't--that much would be pretty obvious by anyone reading my games. Read again; I wasn't talking about Nightless Mountainous--I was giving what I think is correct information on Mountainous, though I may have to check those numbers. TL;DR: Game would probably be scumsided if we chose to do Ev'ry Night, Ev'ry Switch, and since we don't know how many scum there are in each thread, that strategy could be dangerous, etc.

Oh look, maybe Vi is Old School Town after all.

I guarantee you my reasons for thinking you're scum are better than your reasons for thinking I'm scum.

I was RVSing with a play on a certain post for old times' sake. Why do you think I'm scum?

[Tierce]

VOTE: Tierce

Woulda bet cash money before the game started that someone was going to try to lynch 666 on d1, and lo and behold. I mean, he could be scum, but I've yet to see any reason to believe he is, and yet the sharks are smelling blood and circling already

my opinion on quadz's claim: he should Portal every night on pain of death. If he's scum, it stops him doing scummy things at night. If he's town, he has nothing better to do at night, and nobody else wants to target him anyway. Win/win.

I agree on quadz, seems like a decent strategy.

As for DCLXVI, he was misconstruing Korts's post as scummy intent, cutting out the rest of the quote where Korts explained why he believes too much thread interaction can be damaging. I believe he jumped on Vasta's reaction to the post and sought to make it his own, but it's a clear misrep of Korts's intention.
I know DCLXVI is the resident newblet, but that does not excuse scummy behavior like this. Personally, I also don't like the too-short "?" reaction, seems like he's afraid of showing more re: confusion.

Spoiler for Tierce: Games where scum can't kill at Night are "Nightless", not "Mountainous". Granted most Nightless games are Mountainous but etc.

We would be losing our night PRs too, thus the Mountainous reference--Nightless Mountainous.

I was RVSing with a play on a certain post for old times' sake.

You must be saying this out of a different side of your mouth from posts 9 and 27.

...the posts where I was clearly joking? Come on, you know how forced that is--I voted before you even made a post, it's not like I had (or have) a grand definite read on you.

[Tierce]

...the posts where I was clearly joking? Come on, you know how forced that is--I voted before you even made a post, it's not like I had

(or have)

a grand definite read on you.

I don't believe this.

On page 2? No, I don't. You are forcing a case, and that makes you look earnest, but not necessarily scummy.

I like Vi's read on Tierce. She's coming across as scummy to me as well.

VOTE: Tierce

What exactly do you like about Vi's read? Because it boils down to nothing. She's picking at 1) an RVS joke and 2) the fact that I don't have a definite read on her by post 44. Neither are indicative of alignment. Is it iamausername's defense of DCLXVI? I've explained why I believe DCLXVI is acting from a scum mindset.

What else is there?


While I like seeing NS and FaerieLord engaged and active, there is an whole sort of eye narrowing and vague suspicion in their general direction. AFAICT, this is not particularly close to their town meta. I haven't played with NS in a while and so I need to check his games, and iirc FaerieLord is enjoying the magical wonder of freedom from school and sunny Mediterranean weather, so it might just be the extra time. Will scrutinize and compare.
Don't particularly like/buy MattP's extra levels of confidence right here, right now either.

[Tierce]

...the posts where I was clearly joking? Come on, you know how forced that is--I voted before you even made a post, it's not like I had

(or have)

a grand definite read on you.

I don't believe this.

On page 2? No, I don't.

So are you not trying or are you just lying?
(I apologize for the timing of my rhyming.)

I'm not particularly trying to figure you out just yet, no. I don't intent to use up D1 trying to get a firm read on you; you are slippery and I often read you wrong. I'll be letting that one simmer and cook for a while.

What exactly do you like about Vi's read? Because it boils down to nothing. She's picking at 1) an RVS joke and 2) the fact that I don't have a definite read on her by post 44. Neither are indicative of alignment.

Actually, the second one is definitely indicative of alignment.
That aside, don't worry, there's more.

Obv. By post #0 I should be aware that you are

always

Old School Town. Do forgive me for ever doubting it.
Anytime. In the meantime, if you'll excuse me--

As for DCLXVI, he was misconstruing Korts's post as scummy intent, cutting out the rest of the quote where Korts explained why he believes too much thread interaction can be damaging. I believe he jumped on Vasta's reaction to the post and sought to make it his own, but it's a clear misrep of Korts's intention.

I don't see the point in quoting an entire post if there is one specific thing I want to point out in it. Korts intent was clear in that he wanted to limit discussion between the two threads. I didn't need to point anything else out.

No, Korts did not want to 'limit discussion'. He wanted to limit

direct interaction

/communication, because we need to lynch

here

, not

there

. You just so happened to clip his post in a way that makes it look like he has no interest whatsoever in sharing thoughts with Vasta, which is nonsense and has very little to do with what he then developed in the same post. I cut quotes down as well, but I don't do so in a way that attempts to make my vote seem legitimate over a very illegitimate reason.

You're not addressing the core of the issue here. I don't agree with your Korts case. Why does that particular post make Korts scum?

Personally, I also don't like the too-short "?" reaction, seems like he's afraid of showing more re: confusion.

My reaction was longer than your case on me at the time.

And? I don't have to make a case on you when voting. I didn't like the way you reacted to the two votes, though. You are turning this into a "no you!" contest without particularly trying to ascertain why some things are making me uncomfortable about your play.

---

@To the

Huge

Vast(a) Tracts of Land over there:

MattP, please drop the act. Your action is an obvious lie as proven by the rules. If you're town, focus on finding scum instead of leading other town around by the nose--any scum worth their mettle will realize you're lying.

[Tierce]

More later, I'm failing at sleep after a state of drunkenness.

[Tierce]

This game is like reading ongoing games amped up to eleven. Now I can

actually comment on them

.


Aia stuff later, that other thread's more interesting atm.

Hey Vastafarians.

I'd

really

like someone to tell me how this is similar to Nobody Special's town meta. Feel free to use alt meta, etc. Panzer, please and thank you.

he's posting things that actually pertain to the game instead of posting nonsense. Not only is he posting, he's actually posting things that vaguely resemble town play.

That is not NS's town meta.

If you have a townread on him, fine, but this is inaccurate from what I recall. What games of NS have you played in/read to take this conclusion?

That picture book, MattP--explain it and give examples.

generally he is more proactive and aggressive as town and reserved and lurky as scum

See above. This seems absolute poppycock, I've seen NS be useless as town, and considerably pushier as scum. Then you go on to try and justify this read as "it's how he's lurky". The hell? Develop on this or drop the meta read.


Also, scum fail at reading the rules too--case in point, in Open #374 I was

New Wave Town

scum and missed a couple. NS's read on Panzer for that seems forced.


I want to put bullets through everyone who is suggesting multiball. You people better have a damn good explanation for that one. 26p in two threads? Yes, there might be multiple killers to make this game not a slog through the night phases, but how on earth are you convinced already that this is a likely possibility? Suggesting multiball (that is, two scum teams, not multiple factions like SK and assorted third parties) at the beginning of D1 is mighty suspicious and we could do with killing those who have brought it up with the bullets.


Bastion is awesome. That is all.

[Tierce]

I wasn't really reading Aia yesterday, no. (Or so I thought.)

Yesterday I would swear that the multiball exchange was between NS and FaerieLord (which was adding to my NS suspicions). I just went back and checked, and you're right. My bad.

I did mention that the sheer number of players might make it likely for this to be multiball, and there

is

the possibility of multiball, but--the way that redFF refers to this, "one team in each thread"? How does he even posit this kind of stuff? He just throws this theory out there and doesn't even point out people he thinks are 'scumhunting in the other thread'? What's the point to it, red? "Hey look, people might be scum over there... just so you know. Look, I'm being useful by saying this. But hey, I found a scum in my thread, I'm totes not this kind of hypothetical scum. And nope I am not at all scouting the Tierce wagon, nosirree!"

UNVOTE: DCLXVI
VOTE: redFF


Also, Vi: mind toning down the goddamn paranoia? I'm not scum, I'm not out to get you or policy lynch you or whatever and it would be really nice if you stopped and considered that possibility for a second. Jeez.


Not portaling at all (aside from quadz) could be a good plan--if we manage to lynch correctly through one thread, we eventually get a bunch of confirmed townies or scum who isn't NKing to fake being confirmed town (by there being no kills in that thread). That only works if scum can only target players in their own thread, which goes back to the possibility of kills being a factional ability. Still, I'm willing to try it--I don't think there's any huuuuge need of a player to use PR abilities on someone on the other thread when there should be plenty of eligible targets in their own.

However

, with this kind of mechanic, I could very well see there being PRs that can only use their abilities if they portaled X nights ago, only in the thread they didn't start on, or something like that. tl;dr: Don't know if it's feasible. Willing to try.

And? I don't have to make a case on you when voting.

If you are not going to make a case when voting then don't make a big deal about someone questioning your vote.

Post 27: Tierce votes me without giving a reason for it
Post 28: I question the vote (literally)
Post 44: One of tierce's reasons for suspecting me now is the fact that I questioned his unexplained vote on me.

Am I the only person who sees how absolutely terrible tierce's logic here is? He basically is trying to set me up by first giving a vote without explanation and using my response to it as another point to use against me.

Bzzzzzzt.

Still avoiding the crux of the issue I have with you. Grab Korts's first post. The whole of it. What of it is scummy?

Why?

Ludi--anytime you feel like explaining your vote other than "I agree with Vi2 baaaah", I'll be here.

As for DCLXVI, he was misconstruing Korts's post as scummy intent, cutting out the rest of the quote where Korts explained why he believes too much thread interaction can be damaging. I believe he jumped on Vasta's reaction to the post and sought to make it his own, but it's a clear misrep of Korts's intention.
I know DCLXVI is the resident newblet, but that does not excuse scummy behavior like this. Personally, I also don't like the too-short "?" reaction, seems like he's afraid of showing more re: confusion.

So what you're saying is that 29A maliciously cut out the rest of Korts' post to pretend like Korts was saying something different to what he was actually saying and then, what, hoped the rest of us would develop sudden amnesia and forget that Korts had actually made a longer post? He planned to present the prevailing opinion of the Vastafarians as his own totally original and unique opinion and then, what, hope the rest of us would develop sudden amnesia and forget that there was another thread where lots of people are calling Korts scummy?

Yeah, seems pretty solid. ...what were we talking about?

That's not the issue. DCLXVI is misconstruing Korts's post by saying 'this bit that I want to address is scummy!' The rest of the post clearly shows that the intent isn't scummy at all. He took issue with one line and ignored the context. It reads like scum eager to jump on what they think town sees as a scumtell instead of considering the global picture, which is something town is more likely to do.

(And if you think I'd jump on a newbie for being a newbie... you modded my first game, it wasn't that long ago, and I'm generally the kind to white-knight newbies even as scum, so bah to that "omg opportunistic vote on a newbie!" logic. Wagoning newbies is the surest way to get counterwagoned for join-date-opportunism. His join date doesn't make him more likely to be town than anyone else.)

[Tierce]

Oh, and before someone like Shmugen or Amrun claims that I like to fake townslips as scum (which I do) and that the thread confusion could be such a thing--no, that is not a slip of any kind. It was just me being bad at keeping track of things and just running things from memory instead of rereading.

[Tierce]

tierce implying a strong town read on vi / knowledge that he's town in vasta 79

I'm not even trying to read Vi. Just assuming she's town and running with it until I have more to work with. I have a bad track record of reading her (hi Korts), so I'm sparing myself a headache at this stage.

[Tierce]

@p-matt: A few examples:
*Useless throwaway commentary checking the box for activity but says as little that's actually helpful as possible. This starts with her first post and continues all the way down page 1.

Congrats, you have now met my page 1 posting. Incredible read.

*Doubling down on Vi-scum as a reaction to me voting her.

...

Hey. Sir/Ma'am. Do I need to repeat that the references to "Old School Town"/"New Wave Town" and you/I always being Old School are a

joke

? I wasn't even trying to read you and your reaction to my RVS vote with this bout of inane paranoia is ridiculous. I can't even be bothered trying to read you at this stage, no, I do not have superpowers, and almost every time I have tried to read you before I've been wrong. Stop pushing me to waste time on you if you're town, this is crossing the line of ridiculousness. If/when your hypothetical scum team falls apart around you, then I might have some chance of reading you correctly. CBA D1.

*666. All of it.

Go ahead and explain it, then. I'm trying to find scum. I know you are not voting scum, for one.

*redFF 57's scumpartnertastic post.

Excuse me--let me do some distancing from my partner yes this bussing is

delicious

.

*Activity EVERYWHERE except this particular thread yesterday, and even that activity required liberal "brain grease" to psyche herself into it.

This thread's recommended activity is 2 posts/24h. The wait was actually purposeful because I'm already the top poster and wanted other people to chime in. There's the evening, in which I was drunk (ask scumchat >.>) and probably not in the most appropriate mood to rage at you for tunneling on town. Then I fell asleep for 2h. Then failing at sleep and posting. Yes, I am

obviously

avoiding this thread.
But hey, we can try again. I'm sleep deprived and have a vodka bottle. Bring it.

[Tierce]

scumreads
DCL- i've explained why.
Vi- Pushing a Tierce scumread without actually explaining why she's scum
projectmatt- for asking a dumb question when he hasn't actually contributed, also a shitty implosion vote. Saying he's forcing enthusiasm without saying why is just as bad as saying a post is interesting. It means nothing and is just scummy white noise to justify a shitty vote.

Town
iaun-actively scumhunting, has reason behind his posts
implosion- shares a view on DCL with me, also your shitty attack on him strengthens him in my eyes
Tierce- purely for Vi's pushing on her, this is a mild townread obv

Pfffff.

Of all I've posted, the most you get a read on me from is Vi's BS tunnel? Now what, that she's explained some aspects that make her think I'm scum? Still feels like your'e scouting my wagon in "reasons give me reasons reasons I want to join in" mode.

Thrilling stuff.


Also the level in which those reads are outdated is pretty laughable. projectmatt has explained his implosion vote since, Vi has explained her vote on me, come on? What happens to these scumreads? Why is voting without a 'case' scummy? You're not exactly new to the game, but this reasoning is weaksauce.

[Tierce]

Wow. I don't think that first paragraph is in English, but you should get the gist of it.

Also what the hell is wrong with my usage of punctuation there. Sorry.

[Tierce]

Question: Is your vodka bottle empty? I'm more worried if it is.

Fortunately not yet.

As for DCLXVI, he was misconstruing Korts's post as scummy intent, cutting out the rest of the quote where Korts explained why he believes too much thread interaction can be damaging. I believe he jumped on Vasta's reaction to the post and sought to make it his own, but it's a clear misrep of Korts's intention.
I know DCLXVI is the resident newblet, but that does not excuse scummy behavior like this. Personally, I also don't like the too-short "?" reaction, seems like he's afraid of showing more re: confusion.

actually sounds

less

scummy when you word it this way

What does? My post? His intent? I'm pretty lost.

no comment on "?"

Considering I added it almost as an afterthought of something that was making my gut twinge, heh, whatever, I'm not hung up on that and have no special interest in developing a read off a damn question mark. Some people react differently than others to accusations, maybe he's different from me and we can all be one big family.

Everything else is basically asking 666 to explain his vote on Korts, which he didn't do, granted, but etc.

Which... was what I wanted him to do. Not exactly hung up on that either, because after his latest post, it's pretty evident that even if this guy is scum, it's not going to be with subtle stuff like vague misconstruing of people's posts. I'd like him to explain the Korts vote, but someone who has the logic behind Post 100 can also legitimately think Korts's post came from scum.

Etc. etc.


Vote on redFF is still a-go. Please to be stopping the buddying to me, kthxbai.

projectmatt is scum but Faerie "Backtracking" Lord is not? Why don't all the players deserve the same treatment, red?

[Tierce]

Here, red:

scumreads

DCL

- i've explained why.

Vi

- Pushing a Tierce scumread without actually explaining why she's scum

projectmatt

- for asking a dumb question when he hasn't actually contributed, also a shitty implosion vote. Saying he's forcing enthusiasm without saying why is just as bad as saying a post is interesting. It means nothing and is just scummy white noise to justify a shitty vote.

Do you see any FaerieLord mentions? I don't. What are your

actual

scumreads?


Worry not, Vi. Alcohol shall not be consumed tonight.

Need to save it to drown the sorrows for the upcoming football game.

Sleep deprived atm, but sober.

[Tierce]

You're just making points over semantics Tierce, this shows you don't have much, I've been calling FL scummy for a while.

Let's add to the irony of that statement.

I'm not "just" making points over "semantics". You may want to look over the reasons I voted you.

And lawd, hypocrisy isn't a scumtell, but you call out DCLXVI as scum for not talking about the other thread, and you're cutting your own reads in half? What's with this? If you have this behavior, you should know DCLXVI's isn't particularly scummy. Again, "look at me, scumhunting in this thread, nope, not at all looking for a second team on Vasta, don't mind me!"


Your scumreads are still bad and outdated.

[Tierce]

O hai there.

redFF still needs rope, but this one is fun, sunshine and cupcakes:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/search.php?a ... 4&sr=posts

UNVOTE: redFF
VOTE: Zajnet

Hai buddeh. Why so shy?

[Tierce]

Vastafarians:

Please hang BB immediately.

Activate Flip Flop FucknStop

hey bb tell me about this

Well, that's not the actual ability name, but basically it's an X-Shot ability that disallows people from switching threads.

I don't know why the dumbass used it though. Seems terrible and pointless.

Consulting the mod on whether not using the correct name actually activates it.

Instead of using your normal night choice, you may send the choice “Portal”. This will cause you to wake up in the other thread.

Changing threads in this way can only be prevented by your death.

There is no reason for him to persist on a claim of a fake ability if he is town.

[Tierce]

Tierce it's a reaction test and you're failing

An idiotic one and I've made my opinion on 'reaction tests' very clear. Why do you think continuing with that and adding to the confusion is more important than giving opinions in the game so far? That's not a townBB act.


Vi--when the rules explicitly say that portaling cannot be interfered with in

any

manner except by dying, it's an obvious lie.

I was going to make a guinea pig pun here but sadly came up blank. Insert your own joke.

[Tierce]

To Vasta:

An idiotic one and I've made my opinion on 'reaction tests' very clear. Why do you think continuing with that and adding to the confusion is more important than giving opinions in the game so far? That's not a townBB act.

I reaction test, I just make it not terrible and drawn out. It doesn't need to be terrible and drawn out, the only worthwhile reactions are the initial ones.

Your logic still doesn't hold up.

How does it not hold up? My opinion of that little dance was clear a while back, and you coming in and insisting on it seems ridiculous:

@To the

Huge

Vast(a) Tracts of Land over there:

MattP, please drop the act. Your action is an obvious lie as proven by the rules. If you're town, focus on finding scum instead of leading other town around by the nose--any scum worth their mettle will realize you're lying.

@Vi: My issue is that this is an act I'm familiar with. I want reads, opinions, stuff. Continuing on something that is obviously untrue allows him to claim "lolreactions" and detect PRs/VTs from the reactions. Scum is not going to be fooled by it, but if they are paying attention, they might be able to tell the town roles apart by how they react to it. It's damaging, it's nonsensical, it's not advancing the game, and it should have stopped the post after MattP posted it.

[Tierce]

To Vasta:

Please refer to the posts you're replying to, BB, otherwise ISOs will be a mess.

Tierce you can't expect me to have seen that, I haven't even read the threads. All I saw was "Explain this bullshit claim plox," and look back at what MattP did.

I'm not saying you would've seen it--I'm explaining that my dislike of that particular claim/reaction test isn't new and attacking me for it is silly. I still don't see why you would've insisted on that particular claim, but whatever, can't really see scum intent in it. There is little town motivation in pursuing the claim as if it was an actual role, but you're sloppier as town, so.

I'll let this go, but seriously, don't make crappy reaction tests like that, that kind of thing outs power roles, not scum.

[Tierce]

To Vasta:

@Tierce: That BB is scum argument was a BIG stretch. I'd love to know how your logic worked on that one. I can see how you could try to make the rules argument, but Vi got to it before I could, roles usually take precedence.

See above. The RULES indicate that the ability of portaling CANNOT be interfered with except by DYING. That means there is no global portaling roleblock, no partial roleblock, no nuthin. BB coming in and choosing to continue with that fake claim by adding more layers to it (wrong name, X-shot, let me check with the mods if it counts) rang alarm bells, because as I said--I don't really see him being town fooling scum with this, but regardless of his alignment, this is likely to our power roles and/or VTs that get too inquisitive in different manners.

VASTA PEDIT:

Dude, if you call it reaction testing and drop the fakeclaim, there is no obvious potential scum intent other than an attempt to out PRs, and I don't think you'd come into the game trying immediately for that. There's just Stupid, and that town can do in abundance.

Carry on.

[Tierce]

Okay, figured something that is bothering me.

implosion,

why am I town

? You mention me all of twice, once on that post ^, once saying that:

roflcopter is right on Vi, the tierce tunnel is starting to get old. Don't think the tunnel's scummy though, but that depends on a couple aspects of whether/how Vi stops tunneling. Some of the points on Tierce are legit, but idk. I just feel like she's town.

What

have I done to make you conclude I'm town? Because this is reading to me like "scum wanting town to lynch someone they are calling town". I'm at L-4, true, but you have yet to make a single point in my (rather plentiful) posts that explains

why

you think I'm town, you are lazily pushing a wagon on DCLXVI (look at 89! Again! Please, comment on it! Someone...?), and generally not doing much of... anything, really. projectmatt mentioned fake enthusiasm, I think it's rather the reverse--you are not showing much enthusiasm or motivation in keeping townreads alive and lynching your scumreads. Feels dull.


crypto probably asked for replacement because of multipostwall extraordinaire yours truly. Sorry. That slot's obvtown--get Glork to replace in.

[Tierce]

@implosion: So... I ask you to explain your townread on me, explaining why I feel uncomfortable that you haven't done so and how it ties to my impression of the rest of your play, and you lash out at me for doing it? Oookay backing away now thank you sir forget I said anything.
(As for the post count, you're right and I'm sorry. Trying to curb it and obviously failing.)


Vi continues accusing me via ~connections~ to people. If I'm lynched, you're going to have fun when I flip town and they crumble.


UNVOTE: Zajnet Hello bye comment would be lovely--
VOTE: redFF
148-150 fakety fake fake die suck die


Wheee quadz also trying for ~connections~. :/
Btw, quadz--mirrored PRs doesn't work because no one in Vasta claimed PGO. And it would be pretty terrible design.


@PeregrineV--your questions and comments have already been addressed. Catch up and then make new ones. I have no idea how to balance large games, I'd say 5-6 scum, no idea how many are in each thread currently.


@MoS--7 pages and this is all you got? Who is scum? What do you think of redFF's reads?

---

Vasta:

Leave Cronus Fighter alone. If anything, that's a lynch we don't need to use--if we are convinced PRs are scum fakeclaims, tell them to target quadz. We have our own reactive vig.


@Amrun: Your lack of read on me is disturbing. I understand you're in pseudo-V/LA and you did not comment on several other players, but we've played enough games together that I'd expect you to say something about me/my wagon by now--you're clearly paying enough attention to the game that you called Aia stuff out. Why aren't you commenting on my slot?

That said,

Unvote

for now still, cause doc is doc.

"X is X" means very very very little. Do you believe the claim? Why?

[Tierce]

More ~connections~.

Pretty much willing to die if it requires this connections nonsense dies with me--kind of obvious that my flip will show WRONG TRACK WRONG WAY TURN AROUND NAO, and it'll be certainly better than being lynchbait the rest of the game. Not-obvtown Tierce is a painful place to be.

The way the wagon on me continues being pushed as ~informative~ is nonsense, though. You don't need to state how your reads change if I flip town (because "omg Tierce is scum trying to see who her team should shoot at!"), but mull on it a bit. Don't anchor yourself to a fail D1 scumread.

I have a scumread on redFF, DCLXVI is null, general flailing at Vi because I can't read her worth a damn and even choosing Not To Try is frustrating, and Ludi is riding on Vi's sheep-tails in a scummy manner. Very much dislike MoS's lurking. implosion is probably town, he seemed genuinely offended by me.

Ludi's fallacy that this wagon is on scum reeks of scum or idiotic confirmation bias. How often have you seen town get things right on D1, Ludi? How much of a 4-vote wagon, especially since 2 votes on DCLXVI were partially RVS, is a 'counterwagon'? Have you never seen town push counterwagons? Who are my scumbuddies pushing these counterwagons to me? Your post is some vague finger-pointing (as most of your posts so far) with no concrete opinion.

[Tierce]

Not-obvtown Tierce is not-town Tierce. End of story.

This is actually not true. You might not know the difference (I don't know how many of my games you've read) but it's a meta that comes back to bite me. I was run up to L-1 in Warlocks and Werewolves on D1. I lived to the end of Weather Mafia II as town and scum never tried to shoot me. Brass & Shrapnel may be a special case (because lolscumFate--town never got a chance), but I was forced to hammer a supersaint. I ended up vigged in Mafia with the Kitties. I'm town here. TownTierce

tends

to be obvtown, but this isn't always true and it's frustrating to be run up on a fallacy like that.

[Tierce]

Oh, but Zajnet has been around, even if

not here

.

That said, I've seen Zajnet be a complete lump of inactivity before in a game where he flipped town. It's frustrating, but not that telling in terms of alignment. But come on, Zaj, if you're not available to play, why sign up?

Fair enough; wasn't aware of your entire meta, I suppose.

Nonetheless, you are still scum.

Oh okay if you say so I really should have thought that would be a clear indication of my alignment~


redFF really requires rope. Rah.

roflcopter intentionally tying himself to Tierce is made of .

Nothing for him to fear there regardless of his alignment--he's either buddying as scum or defending as town, so.


The discussion between redFF and PeregrineV about mini theme design and scumteams and oof is both snail-paced and boring and doesn't advance nothing. Bucket full of nothin'.


Cut--
lolquadz no ur rong. Thoughts on the rest of the game besides your tunnel and the lurkity slots of lurky doom would be great. :/ Hint:

These 7 pages are pretty damn substantial. Stop pretending there's nothing there and do the work, son.

[Tierce]

ITG: BB proves one of two things:

1. He can't read me worth a damn;
   
2. He is scum.

[Tierce]

By all means, BB, explain what is so wrong with Post 80. I was legitimately confusing the people in the threads, and that kind of behavior does not indicate one alignment or another--I'm saying it's

not

a townslip. People here know that my scum meta involves fabricating those, I'm saying that my confusion seems, to me, something that one would have independent of their alignment.

So--what's so bad about it that you'll go all yelly at it?


PEdit: Yes, there are.

[Tierce]

And frankly, Vi, you and I have talked about this. There are instances in which I'm town and not being painfully obvious about it. They are not too common, but they happen--and then I'm easy to run up. The fact that you don't seem to be acknowledging this reality and the chat(s) we've had about it (do you think I was trying to build scum meta for the future in

an out-of-game conversation

?) makes my skin crawl.

You're either terminantly refusing to second-guess yourself (bad plan due to my alignment) or we have Viscum--in which case I'd rather cut to the chase and die today to not be lynchbait the rest of the game when there's that happy fun capslock spammeRageTUNNEL across the portal.


PEdit: ...what? No, quadz, that's not it. I'm saying that:
-- I plant townslips as scum (or drop them as town by accident);
-- Post 80's reference is that my confusion about players

not

a townslip, planted or otherwise it's me DERPING. It's independent of alignment.

HOW ON EARTH is this scummy at all?

[Tierce]

VASTA:

Tierce do you think your play looks townish this game?

It certainly does not look scummy. It doesn't look obvtown, but that does not mean I'm scum.

So--I'm

honest

that something in particular is not an indication of my alignment, and this means I'm faking? That logic is so terribly convoluted, BB.

Please source your posts and try to keep the post count down instead of posting one-liners--mind the rules.


PEdit: ...I drop townslips as town as well, quadz. Town does that all the time. I keep doing it in my town games and I have no issue with them (because it quacks like a duck--they show I'm town), but there are several players here who have seen me do it as scum and I don't want to be falsely run-up by something that is not and was never meant to be fabricated nor indicative of alignment. If it were a townslip, hey, great, it happens as town, more power to me, carry on. People go "Tierce fakes townslips as scum!" in my town games, I accept it happens due to my scum games.

Town doesn't particularly enjoy being lynched, and I wouldn't like being attacked by something that is part of my scum meta that is like that because it

attempts to mimic my town meta

. But it's not even that, it's a bundle of confusion, so I made that post and carried on.

[Tierce]

...

But that's the point, quadz, it was not a townslip, it wasn't planted, intended, unintended, anything.

I stated it was not a townslip

, obviously I didn't think it was a townslip.

Whatever, you're not going to convince me I'm scum, and I apparently can't convince you otherwise. Just don't close your eyes to the rest of the game, because your tunnel is wrong and it worries me.

[Tierce]

And frankly, Vi, you and I have talked about this. There are instances in which I'm town and not being painfully obvious about it. They are not too common, but they happen--and then I'm easy to run up. The fact that you don't seem to be acknowledging this reality and the chat(s) we've had about it (do you think I was trying to build scum meta for the future in

an out-of-game conversation

?) makes my skin crawl.

...I somewhat remember something like what you're referring to. But, how exactly do you expect me to accurately call you out as scum if your excuse will always be "I swear I'm having an off-game from my obvTowniness"?

Now, you want to know what makes MY skin crawl? Using out-of-game conversation against people in general. There's this whole "integrity of the game" concept I think you know well, but evidently not well enough.

For the love of all that is holy can Tierce/quadz/Vi/BBm just stop posting. Yes, we know that quadz is Town, Vi is Town, BBm is Town, Tierce has claimed whatever-the-opposite-of-Vi-and-BBm-is, and we're all basically right.

Considering that that conversation was pre-game and as valid as any conversation in MD prior to the start of the game (I will call out people if I don't think their play matches what they claim they do as town on MD, for example). I don't see how that'd affect the game. But fine, I'll drop it. Just registering the way it makes me uncomfortable, because you're apparently not acknowledging that possibility (though you're right in that supposedly optimal play would be to call that talk out as scum too--food for thought). It

does

happen, and one of the reasons there are three votes on me and someone going LOLOLOLSCUM on Vasta is because I'm failing at hitogoroshiing all around the place.

I'm done for the night. This is mostly frustrated ranting by now, anyway. :/

tl;dr--I should shut up and start obvtowning.

[Tierce]

...How many times do I need to say I don't have a definite read on Vi and I'm not trying. This is frustrating enough without trying to get a D1 read on Vi. I've stated I tend to read Vi wrongly, and I don't want to anchor myself on issues that I have with Vi's playstyle. Vi has done things that I can see as coming from Vi-town and Vi-scum, but trying to read her today is, for me, a giant waste of time and my frazzling patience.

Furthermore, your post is a complete fallacy. I know I'm town. I'm not going to vote myself, period, that is against my wincon. If this situation continues, I'll accept being lynched, but hell if I'm going to make it easier for scum to win this by directly contributing to the lynch of someone with confirmed alignment.
Implying that doing so is protown play is beneath your skill level regardless of your alignment, Ludi.

[Tierce]

In fact, Ludi, wouldn't imply that I have NO BLOODY IDEA what to do re: Vi and am utterly lacking a read on her that I can focus on give you any kind of hint re: my alignment? I could make some bullshit read and move on from it, but I'm not doing that.

Christ, you were my scumbuddy in MLP. You saw how I played with Vi throughout the game. This couldn't be more different.

Yes, I'm incredibly frustrated with this. People expect me to be All Obvtown, All The Time as town, when I have had obvtown behavior in certain instances as scum. If you want to use quadz's analogy for it--by now, my obvtown behavior could be, perhaps, interpreted as a nulltell.

It's not the first time this happens as town, and being voted on D1 because I'm not matching some ridiculously high standard other people have set for me is absurd. For all practical effects, this is a measure of Burden of Proficiency, made on faulty meta, at that. I'm incredibly irked that 'Tierce is not being obvtown already' is even seen as a decent reason to vote.


...PEdit: I'm trying and being IGNORED. Everything I do is dismissed as scum by the people voting me. Of course I don't want to die, but what the fuck do you want me to do when the case on me is "lol notobvtown" and "~connections~"? I'm fine with D1 not yielding a scumlynch as long as it yields informative wagons and behaviors, but I'm not even seeing that because the same set of vocal people are refusing to acknowledge the situation may be different than what they are tunneling on, you included. (And yes, quadz, when almost every post starts with "Tierce is scum", you are tunneling and it's frustrating as hell seeing that come from a townread.)

[Tierce]

In fact, Ludi, wouldn't imply that I have NO BLOODY IDEA what to do re: Vi and am utterly lacking a read on her that I can focus on give you any kind of hint re: my alignment?

The above isn't English, that phrase started one way and ended differently.

EBWOP:
"In fact, Ludi, wouldn't the fact that I have NO BLOODY IDEA what to do re: Vi and am utterly lacking a read on her imply something about my alignment?"

[Tierce]

Thank you. Odd as it may be, that admission does improve my mood some.

The issue is: you haven't yet said why you're voting me. You say your vote feels 'right', and then go for ~connections~ via the fact that there were/are two other wagons. And that is it. Nothing more.

You did not even approach my issue with your wagon "analysis", that it was the fact that the first 'competing wagon' (DCLXVI) was hardly significant, and that D1 4-vote wagons at 7 to lynch aren't exactly a great proof of 'competing wagons on D1 one is totally on scum!' What kind of information do you expect to get from these wagons? What behavior are you seeing as more likely to scum from town in the vote movements, and viceversa? Why? What would a town flip on DCLXVI/me/redFF tell you about the game state?

[Tierce]

Town:

iamausername
quadz08

Null-town:

DCLXVI
projectmatt

Null-scum:

implosion

Scum:

redFF

Etc.:

Korts
Magister Ludi
Mastermind of Sin
PeregrineV
Zajnet

Vi:

Vi

[Tierce]

Because he was my first mod and has a little place in my heart forever and ever

iamausername had little reason to jump off me and onto implosion if he were scum. I'm a juicy mislynch when Vi is at the wheel. It's a bit suspect if redFF flips scum, because he chose to vote implosion over redFF when redFF had a larger wagon and he apparently also has a scumread on redFF--but really, if iamausername was reluctant to bus, then why not just keep voting me and push that wagon.

It doesn't look like iamausername is concerned with picking a mislynch/strong wagon, but with making his scumread the best possible lynch today, while mentioning redFF in a "I would jump over if we need to compromise" manner.

[Tierce]

Because looking back, DCLXVI reacted pretty calmly to my vote and implosion's. Part of it is also implosion's behavior toward him; the reads are connected, and if iamausername is correct about someone trying to abuse the newbie, that would be implosion. I also like the curiosity in 50; there is no nervousness that people are out to get him, just that "why would that happen" feeling. Feels like townie curiosity.

I don't like that he's still voting Korts and being mostly reactive to events--say, implosion and redFF--because I'd expect him to lay down a vote for someone he believes is voting with bad reasons.

However

, I also know that DCLXVIscum would've had a great chance to vote

me

when people were calling out my case on him, and did not take it. That Korts vote seems to be waiting for further elaboration once Korts returns. It's a pretty dull vote, but he is not stirring bad wagons, at least.

[Tierce]

I don't have scumreads on that wagon. There's you and Mutesheep Ludi right there, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a four-town four-vote wagon on town on D1.

[Tierce]

It's a self-referential read--if you're town, not knowing whether I'm town can't really convince you of my PoV re: iamausername, so I understand the doubt. From not-me-perspective, I suppose iamausername could look good as my scumpartner trying to avoid a bus by jumping off me, but for obvious reasons that is a situation that does not occur to me. From my end of things, his analysis of implosion makes iamausername very likely to be town haring off to hunt down actual scum.

[Tierce]

Sure, it makes him look good and protown and whatnot, but if I'm going to assume that an action that

is

protown has the sole intent of

looking

protown, paranoia will give me white hairs. As long as it quacks like a duck on key, I'm assuming that there is actual protown motivation to iaun's actions.

[Tierce]

1) After this:

statements that imply obviously contradictory personalities (eg. "I like to have a goodly amount of stuff from people before i start throwing things at them." vs. "that alone is enough for me to feel fucking confident that he'd flip scum."),

Thanks for omitting the "in the majority of cases" that i put in that paragraph, i really appreciate the distortion :\.

he made a laughable attempt to punish Tierce for arguing with him by threatening to drop his town read on her,

Oh really. So you agree with her characterization of my push as lazy? also, what do you mean "threatening to drop my town read on her?" I think i pretty clearly DID drop my town read on her. Not entirely, but partially. I still have her as town, weakly though

and finally this outstanding post right here.

Remember when I posted this?

In this place, I have a certain prediction. If that prediction comes true, then I'll vote for Tierce. Remind me of this later. Barring that, tierce is still town.

yeah...

So you just attacked me for three things. One of them was you

ignoring part of what i wrote

. One of them was you mischaracterizing what i did (arguably. I don't think it's as bad though). One of them was you

ignoring part of what i wrote

.

I mean, I really don't think you misread what I said on purpose, but it's damn hard for me to not straight up shoot at you guns-a-blazing.

2) And after I gave a good look at this:

I was gonna say Tierce is scum if her vote stayed on zajnet after he posted (assuming his posting wasn't lolridiculouslyscummy) so she passes that.

don't really have much else to say~ i might in the morning but don't feel like reading beyond that right now

Honestly, I don't think you'd think I'd be that stupid as scum. The whole thing seemed like an easy excuse for a read.

3) Also after I gave a good reread to the DCLXVI situation.

4) Scum can sound/be genuinely offended too (they are people too, after all) and it wasn't a particularly alignment-relevant issue to be offended over, so that bit is superseded by the rest.

[Tierce]

"I have a prediction! I'm voicing it now so that people know I will have a reason to join Tierce's wagon, and I'll let her know and be wary about it and watch her behavior."
"Prediction didn't happen! See, that one prediction! That action that wouldn't be particularly indicative one way or another. [Keeping voting an inactive slot would be mostly

stupid

, not really town/scum.] But I had my eye on her!"

It's... too bland, too publicized, too weak an idea. I don't see why you'd ever bring it up the fact that you had a prediction as town--because that keeps your 'target' on their toes. It just seems to serve as a point for you to go back to and claim that you had a solid train of thought to work on, when as town I don't see the reason to voice it unless if you 1) wanted to reaffirm me as town, in which case you'd bring it up when you were describing your townread on me in later posts, or 2) in case I didn't unvote Zajnet.

[Tierce]

VASTA:

By all means, Panzer--do elaborate on ViViVi. Because I think he just bled newbtown all over the thread and then some.

Bastion's trap was silly. The people voting NS already are already making their positions clear, why do they need to remark on it further? They aren't wigging out of answering your "would you hammer him?" question, they

answered it before you asked it

via votes. You should be looking at those who have no stated reason on him if you want results.

[Tierce]

That Korts vote seems to be waiting for further elaboration once Korts returns. It's a pretty dull vote, but he is not stirring bad wagons, at least.

What leads you to make such assumptions about DCLXVI's vote? His vote is parked on an inactive user with no pressure whatsoever. Shouldn't you be concerned that his vote isn't apparently doing anything productive, instead of praising him for it?

Are you high?
I call it a dull vote (and he has unvoted now, at that), and you say I'm

praising

him? In addition, let's include the rest of the post:

Because looking back, DCLXVI reacted pretty calmly to my vote and implosion's. Part of it is also implosion's behavior toward him; the reads are connected, and if iamausername is correct about someone trying to abuse the newbie, that would be implosion. I also like the curiosity in 50; there is no nervousness that people are out to get him, just that "why would that happen" feeling. Feels like townie curiosity.

I don't like that he's still voting Korts and being mostly reactive to events

--say, implosion and redFF--because I'd expect him to lay down a vote for someone he believes is voting with bad reasons.

However

, I also know that DCLXVIscum would've had a great chance to vote

me

when people were calling out my case on him, and did not take it. That Korts vote seems to be waiting for further elaboration once Korts returns. It's a pretty dull vote, but he is not stirring bad wagons, at least.

How is this praising DCLXVI's vote on you?

Like... you didn't complain about my vote for Zajnet, you didn't complain about quadz's vote on MoS, and you pick on a newbie's vote on a slot that

actually

did something he disagreed with, and who would continue to be scum no matter how much time passes? It's not his fault you made your first posts and vanished, what is he supposed to pressure if you're not around? You're acting like it's his fault and I'm protecting him.

B'uh. No, I don't think DCLXVI is a spectacular player who is nailing all the scum here. I think he's town, has good intentions and I see no reason to harangue him. The way you're lashing out like I'm all PRAISE HIM is absurd.

What world are you living in, Korts?

[Tierce]

As to not responding to the other thread, I will when I see something that I need to respond to. I just don't like that kortul saying we should limit player interaction.

He means Korts. And you never showed up again. Pretty obvious that he will be waiting on you. He was still commenting on other situations, but kept his vote on you, and there's no reason to do so with a player who keeps adding to his V/LA unless he wants more elaboration.

Looking at his posts, it's pretty clear that DCLXVI is a reactive player. It's not some surprising revelation to conclude that he was waiting for you to return. You expect people to be good scumhunters but don't expect them to read natural behavioral patterns? His posts had signs of a wait for you.

By "not stirring bad wagons" I meant DCLXVI had a great opportunity to vote me (see my quoted post again). He did not do this, even when it would be a pretty sweet spot for scum to jump on my wagon. Do I think continuing to vote you is better than voting me, when all you've done so far is make a non-alignment relevant post and gone on V/LA? Sure I do. The only "legitimate concern" of yours I can point to is the fact that yeah, you did nothing in-between and DCLXVI just gave up on voting you. But this also feels like you're putting him in a lose/lose situation. The vote was bad, but so is the unvote? Why?

[Tierce]

VASTA:

FaerieLord, look again.

I mean, I know you're the kind who forgets CES is dead for days after the fact, but Unvote != Vote.

[Tierce]

ITG -
Tierce disappears.

2012-07-01 22:52:56 - 1 day 3 hours

I know I'm adorable, you don't have to call for my company in such a roundabout way.

My Day finally rolled through the week enough that I went to bed before midnight, then zoo time today, then woke up an hour ago. Hold on, I'm catching up on MS.

[Tierce]

I have no issue with the unvote, Tierce.

You're setting up a false argument--scum would jump on your wagon in DCLXVI's situation. Let's say that's necessarily scummy; but it's not the only possible scummy thing to do with your vote in this situation. Like you say, DCLXVI is a reactive player, yet what you propose for him as the expected scummy maneuver is a very active position. Meanwhile, what he actually does, and what I'm saying is scummy, is he parks his vote on an early low-profile suspect and makes

no direct mention from page 3 onwards

of the person he votes until page 11. Even if we accept that he's a reactive person, and that he won't pursue cases on his own--which is demonstrably false, see early game play--that's incredibly passive.

That quote, by the way, means absolutely nothing. He talks about responding

to the other thread

, not me. And, by the way, I made a pretty large and hard-to-miss post on page 4, which he completely ignored, so the waiting defense is completely bunk. Why, again, are you so determined to defend DCLXVI?

VOTE: Tierce

It's not the only possible scummy reaction, obviously, but it adds to my townread on him. I feel that, with what he has shown so far, he had ample chance to do it as scum without looking badly. The fact that he didn't jump on me gives him townpoints. It wouldn't be a 'very active' position, because it would be

in reaction to the votes on me and the complaints about my logic

. He argued that my logic was flawed. He was aware of it, but didn't push further.

And yes, he should have reacted to your Post 81. Frankly, I forgot about that post while reviewing DCLXVI (no wonder, since he doesn't acknowledge it).

I was defending a townread, and I stand by what I said except the waiting part--he did, in fact, ignore 81, even when it had a section directed at him. I see where you're coming from re: DCLXVI in that bit; sitting on a vote and ignoring you over commenting on someone calling him scum like implosion did is pretty weak. When I quoted #62 (in qhich he means you, not kortul), I was showing that he didn't like your behavior, but he didn't follow through with it on the next page.

#275 also comes across as an opportunistic L-1, even though he claimed he would vote one of his scumreads that day. I really don't like the way he jumped on a L-1 wagon on D1 PoE, especially when he doesn't have stated reads on the complete number of players. It doesn't make sense to conclude 2 RVS votes + 2 town votes = 1 scum vote next, because he has circular (unexplained) reasoning on implosion and redFF. (Fake edit: I see iamausername mentioned this.)


Hi Vi why is redFF worthy of an unvote at L-1 when you think he's scum and he has been lurking for the past days? My vote isn't moving and I'll lynch the hell out of that slot. Not that I don't dislike this obnoxious attitude from MoS (interesting slip there, I typed MoI), but I find it highly suspect that this wagon is so handily springing up the moment that there ceases to be interest on me and redFF becomes a prime target of attention.


MoS's behavior is, as stated above, extremely obnoxious. I do not have interest in looking up any meta he is conscious of, because this crap is very obviously deliberate. It's anti-town taunting and it's just distracting. If you're just intent in being a wise-ass and not hunt scum, don't play. -_-

Seriously, why the fuck would PV ask me a question with such an obvious answer? It's intentional fluff because he's asking questions he should already know the answer to if he had actually done his research and wasn't just asking questions for the sole purpose of trying to look engaged in the game.

Asking questions of other players rather than offering any your own content is a scumtell, broski. Especially when the questions are such obviously shit ones that reveal a lack of having actually read the thread for comprehension despite the player obviously wanting us to think otherwise (that's the point of the question in the first place, after all).

Oooookay this is not right, MoS. You're asking people to meta you

on obnoxious behavior you shouldn't do if you're town

, and yet you can't be bothered to check how good PeregrineV is in his games? Really now. I don't want to derail that justice wagon on redFF further, but this is abject crap.


(Oh god I'm in love with iamausername for #302.)

the only reason people are considering voting me is because I don't give a fuck

Nope, see above.


Like seriously, how many people are sheep in wolves' clothes this game? Because not all of redFF implosion MoS can be scum or this is lol2ez, but

come on

.


I know MoS prides himself in making his town game and scum game indistinguishable, so I don't see why he's whining that people are voting him for having a behavior he has as scum when that behavior is not inherently protown.


Can't be bothered with Vasta atm. Do your work, chickadees.

[Tierce]

Tierce needs to be forced to give an unambiguous read on DCLXVI. I'm seeing a weird relationship unfold between them.

I don't have one at present. I know I said null-town, but you're right that he completely ignored your longish post thing. That changes my perspective but I haven't really pored over it in-depth, so I have to reread and reach a conclusion and etc.

It's 8:25 am, I'm drunk (hi Vi vodka is cool) and need sleep. I'll mull on this and Vasta after I wake up.

[Tierce]

And where's that reply to my post, Ludi?

Because seriously, I want to know the thought process behind your behavior. I don't need a 20-line essay on it, but I really don't get how the way you were acting is supposed to be protown.

[Tierce]

So I really do hope she's awkwardly distancing from you, her scumpartner. For your sake. Because if you have the audacity to flip Town in this game I will proceed to flame you so hard your ears will burn. And I unfortunately believe the chance of you flipping Town is nontrivial.

Hopes will be dashed when I eventually flip town, but k. ~CONNECTIONS~

The pussy-footing around is because I haven't meta'd MoS yet. I'm extremely irked with his play so far, and I believe he does pretty much the same regardless of alignment, so the meta-crap he's going on about isn't in any way thrilling me, but I still want to check, and redFF hasn't done anything to make me change my mind on his alignment. (Though I need to check DCLXVI because since fake L-1 and whatnot.) I also have to reread DCLXVI properly, and give Vasta a more thorough once-over. This is happening tonight, sometime after now, sometime after food.

[Tierce]

Was going to read up on Vasta, then realized the deadline--this takes priority for now (again).

Tried to look up MoS in Closed Normal, but iaun is right about the malware notice

so I'm dropping that one

nevermind I got chamber to fix it.

He claims he played to his town meta on Good v. Evil, while trying to not be too obvtown (got crosskilled anyway). Metaing multiball is harder due to legitimate scumhunting, but I can at least look at the main attitudes.

Spoiler: Children of Hurin, scum

This game is boring. Can we lynch Katsuki already?

Wait, I'm attempting to appear like I'm reading the game? I demand evidence of this accusation!

So much posting that makes my eyes glaze over...

I'm a little worried. I've never seen Furcolow be this verbose and cohesive in his arguments with people. Usually he's on the level of vezok or benmage, from what I've seen. I don't have a scum-meta on Furcolow, though. Can anyone speak to whether he tends to put in more effort when he's scum?

dunno. Still waiting on someone to answer my meta question about Furc.

In the games I've seen, yes. But I've only seen him in like two other games, both as town I believe.

Spoiler: Good vs Evil, Law vs Chaos, scum

I don't really feel like catching up. Someone tell me what's happened so far and who I should vote. Pretty content to sheep for now cuz fuck it.

Oh hey I actually read all the posts from today. So proud of myself.

You guys post too much for sick people.

The honest reason for my reasoning for a quick lynch is because I am on spring break. I wanted to progress the game quicker than normal so there could have atleast been a lot of progress made before I have to go back to school and be unable to contribute as much. And now that I have found Pine to be obv scum in my eyes and other people see it as well, I just want to move on to the next day already.

MoI imma let you handle this one. Takes too much effort.

*collapses*

MoS: He's done absolutely nothing of any help whatsoever. No matter how little time you have, you can at least get in one post with content in it today.

I spent my allotment for the day skimming the game.

You were swimming in March?

You were thinking about this game while you were swimming?

Norman, you're not a very likable person.

You're operating under the assumption that what is going on in this thread is actually mafia. I haven't seen anything yet that particularly strikes me as useful.

(as to MoS, I know he's capable of better play than what he is currently showing)

Me too...but that requires giving a fuck. I'll let you know if something piques my interest.

A lot of day one is town pulling itself apart, and the smart scum will sit back and let it happen. My other theory is that scum are also much less likely to care about mechanics and reading first posts/rules because they being the informed minority already gives a sense of security imo. Now, you could say at this point then that why would someone on the scum team bother to question those rules, but then you have one of two things happening; a slip, or fake content.

Why CD and not me, then?

LoL

Spoiler: Closed Normal, town

Welp, didn't know the game started. That sucks, but to hell with rereading a whole 7 pages. I'll just read Glork's last post...

...and Glork is doin' his thing. His description of Haylen and GreyIce's play so far seems pretty suspicious, assuming it went down like he said. I guess we'll see how it goes.

Town - Scum

GreyICE - town Ice. Not the same feel as buffy, Team-mates agree town, and meta backs it up
Glork - Town Glork - seems to have thought out posts and cases
Haylen - town Haylen, had thought so from early stage and now backed up by Zach in team QT.
Porochaz - didnt like Poro start to the game, but has come into it a lot better since

iamausername - Null seems to be flying under the radar
Mastermind of Sin - Null need more content
DeltaWave - Null - seems to be flying under radar needs more
Uberninja - Capt is a scum read, so her buddying up to UN seemed wrong to me

PeregrineV - slight scum, but will list orange/null for now seems reluctant to comment/post.

Slaxx - weak wagon jumping to popular wagons.. seems to just coast along with votes without little care.
CooLDoG - seems to be skimming and not filly reading.. Shows this when attacking me claiming im pushing GrayIce as scum and lynch of meta.

Captain Murasa - started as gut, but progressed rapidly as it went along

.

Right now I really want to see more from PerV, MoS, Deltawave, they seem to be trying to skim under the radar. However are in the middle section of my reads as I feel the bottom 3 are worth looking at more.

vote:Captain Murasa

How did iamausername not make your list at the bottom? You marked him as "flying under the radar" and then didn't say you wanted to see more from him... What makes him so much different from PerV/MoS/Deltawave?

Also, I'm probably just going to sheep Glork until I feel like doing something else. I don't feel like voting though but I'll just agree with whatever he says cuz he's in the groove.

MoS, you do that, I vote for you.

Glork isn't playing his town game here.

Was there a particular post, or is this an overall thing?

You should read my posts addressed to him.

LoL, so basically you would vote me for sheeping Glork because he's not playing his town game, rather than voting Glork for not playing his town game?

HMMMMMM

CD, I am playing the game.

Haylen has done nothing to give me the impression she is scum. The wagon was a lot more interesting.

Deltawave is starting to look like he's active lurking but... as I said before we are 3 days in... also lurking doesn't really mean much to me.

MoS taking such an inactive stance is worrying. Playing in such a way that he only takes that further for obvious reasons.

Meh. This is pretty much how I play all my Day 1s these days.

On another note, I was in Scummies Winvitational with Glork as well. I thought he was scum for like half the game. I don't think he's scum now. Dunno what that means, though. Either my Glorkdar is flipped or I'm getting better at reading him. Or I'm just lazy and not paying enough attention.

Also, LoL @ not even being on Delta's list in #421. xD

I can't stop trollololing that GreyICE thinks I'm trying to bring the laziness of my town play down to match my scum effort rather than the other way around. Just goes to show how little he knows about the shit he spews.

Quoting examples from AFFC Mafia, where he was town, is a pain because the thread is locked. Attitudes are pretty similar.


It boils down to this: I don't think his meta is enough to condemn MoS as scum, and I won't compromise on a lynch of that slot just because he's being useless. Yes, it's anoying, but he does this regardless of alignment, he

does

question other people about events as town (he cares a lot more than he pretends to, methinks, and I have the feeling he's tired of drawing scum recently), but he usually evens out and actually starts cooperating as the game goes on. This kind of play feels pointless to me, but looking at the overall meta picture, I don't think that's enough to point at MoS and go "yep, he's probscum". They're enough to go "yeah, he's a useless lump D1 regardless of alignment, and yeah, he evens out as the game goes on".

[Tierce]

I'll get back to you on that redFF wagon in a couple days, if I have time. I've been distracted and haven't gotten around to the analysis yet. At worst I'll get to it next week if I remember. Better yet, bug me about it and don't let me forget.

With 13 alive in Aia, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is July 6

I don't like iaun's meta jump, but I've read meta wrongly as town before and it's a fact he didn't have access to MoS's ISO that proves iaun wrong on MoS's behavior; I'm tempted to say that yes, it's memory fail here--but iaun, you're rather patently wrong. Why wouldn't you check other games, if you're going to read up on meta?

[Tierce]

They're going "lynching Tierce will tell us about her scumbuddy X or Y or Z when she flips scum." Of course that's faulty, I'm not flipping scum, so I feel it's a completely empty reasoning--I know my connections to them are town/??? and there won't be any magnificent "oooooh who bussed her?!" revelations if I eat a lynch.

Anyway, reading DCLXVI.

[Tierce]

On DCLXVI:

I still like his reaction to me. It was pretty calm summary dismissal of something he doesn't see as coming from scum-himself.

To Korts's unanswered post:

NS and Amrun (V) and DCLXVI (A) are slightly less obviously scummy coming out of this, but they definitely either need a refresher course in reading comprehension, or more likely, were looking for a wagon to hop on. DCLXVI's conviction, at least, implies to me that whatever the case, he's more invested in this than would be worth it for scum. On the other hand, Nobody Special's conviction means nothing, because his initial point, that this is what we signed up for, is ridiculous, and seems like he's trying to exploit an opening he found, but can't think of a better excuse for doing so.

Not reacting to this and generally ignoring the rest of the thread but those that are directly talking with him mataches DCLXVI's reactive-only behavior, though I can't now say that he was waiting for Korts's response, since he simply ignored it and didn't give any follow through on his Korts vote. He voted him off "limiting communication", and when Korts developed on it more than he had already done in his original post (and after I had explained that Korts's intent was not limiting communication), he simply continued with that vote.

He was, however, very much aware of the events in that page, since he reacted to implosion calling him scum and then redFF calling him scum too.

This makes this highly dissonant:

korts-Don't like his beginning to the game, but hasn't done anything scummy since.

Korts made one post you didn't react to, DCLXVI, and then... you just dropped that vote? No follow up, no nothing? He was still null-scum, but you never pushed that read? Why?

As stated before, there's circular reasoning in his reads. Originally I thought that his reads post was a towntell, but looking at things in context:

Tierce.

quadz08
Tierce
Mastermind of Sin
Korts
PeregrineV
projectmatt
Magister Ludi
implosion
Zajnet
redFF
Vi
DCLXVI
iamausername

Categorize into Town/scum/?, please.

Town:

iamausername
quadz08

Null-town:

DCLXVI
projectmatt

Null-scum:

implosion

Scum:

redFF

Etc.:

Korts
Magister Ludi
Mastermind of Sin
PeregrineV
Zajnet

Vi:

Vi

UNVOTE:

Reads:

Town:

Quadz- Simply put, I believe his role-claim,
VI-I would think that scum would pick an easier target for a day 1 mislynch than Tierce.
projectmatt- For jumping off my wagon when scum could have stayed on. Also for post 24 where he immediately puts down a pro-scum plan. I think scum would rather have waited to see if that plan would have gotten momentum.

Null-Town:

Tierce- I've never played with her before so I just don't get this whole thing of "tierce isn't obvious town lynch her" paranoia that is going around
Implosion- If redFF is scum I highly doubt implosion is scum, I find his tunneling on me is rather townish as well.

Null

not much to say about them
Magister Ludi
zajnet
mastermind of sin
He a

Null-Scum

korts-Don't like his beginning to the game, but hasn't done anything scummy since.

Scum:

IAAUN- His blatant buddying with me is unnerving and rather suspicious. His case on implosion is bad as well.
Peregrin-his post 23 where he suggests having everyone swap threads at night stood out as very scummy, while I was re-reading. He also left his RVS vote on me for far to long, and gave no explanation for why he kept it there like that.
RedFF-PoE here, I got to L-2 pretty quickly, first two votes were RVS, the next two were players I have town-reads on now. If there is scum jumping onto my wagon it is him.

I'll put a vote down tomorrow on one of my scumreads.

I don't like the

timing

. The reads are unsolicited, the reasoning for them is weak, it feels like he's trying to gain townpoints after doing quite a bit of nothing and ignoring his main vote.

He then posts

right between Korts

, still not a hint of acknowledgement, which is scummy because Korts and I are clearly discussing him

right there

.

Yes, I would see this slot lynched.

And he's several daykills overdue, Vi.

@iamausername:

- You had a game with him. What do you think of DCLXVI's meta?

VASTA:

BB doesn't like playing scum, and he tends to lurk as a result. While his forum activity isn't prolific in the last few days and I believe he's busy, I do see some dissonance in the fact that he was calling me scum so forcibly and then simply ignored my existence on this post.

[Tierce]

Also tierce i can post around the forum when I'm out, it takes more concentration to post/read games so linking my posts around the site is pretty irrelevant.

Fair enough.


That said, an actual, updated list of reads, please and thank you. You've been dodging this.

DCL why am I scummy for jumping on your fast building wagon but you aren't for jumping on mine?

I don't really see MoS scum right now tbh. People are talking about me disappearing, but what about projectmatt? After his shit vote on implosion and backtrack to say he was reaction testing, he hasn't done anything of note.

[snip]

Also the biggest lurker of the game (aside from zajnet who just flaked) is Peregrine

anyone down for a peregrine wagon? Experience tells me he'll just continue to lurk, regardless of alignment, but his current posting hasn't actually had a single read apart from his korts vote for asking questions. PV coud you list some reads for me please?

"Don't look at me! These lurkers are worse!"

Rope pl0x.

[Tierce]

Deadline is extended until July 9th.

[Tierce]

Well. What he said.

[Tierce]

quadz. Ludi. Any objections to adding PereV to the obvTown list?

Not quadz, not Ludi, but chiming in. While I theoretically like the fact that he's actually putting in effort, that's usually more a feature of Perescum than Peretown, so I'm conflicted with re: a player with a protown attitude that tends to herald scum intent.


MoS, frankly, I'm done defending your attitude as ~meta~. You don't get lynched on D1 (and neither have I gone through it yet), but I know

I

am town. If there are going to be competing wagons and

all you have going for you

currently is "he acts like this regardless of alignments", I have absolutely no reason not to compromise on your wagon to make sure I don't get lynched. Give me something. Anything. I want a sign that my lynch would be worthy any measure of information and benefits for town that yours wouldn't--but you don't seem to care about this game. It makes me really sad that I have a wagon I'd like to push through and it's stuck in a dead zone that will force me to vote a nullread to ensure me-town survives the day. I'm not going to throw anything and a kitchen sink at you, I'm not Haylen, but I'll definitely vote

you

, Mr. Doesn't Give A Damn, if it means I live.

[Tierce]

This is ridiculous.

I understand that America has 4th of July celebrations and weekend and whatnot, people, but seriously, the amount of V/LA in this game? Do you not check what is your future availability before signing up for a new game?

Will lynch any of redFF, implosion, DCLXVI and MoS in no particular order. I'm done caring with this day.

[Tierce]

And if everyone could be awesome and take a look at MoS' reads in post 410, I suggest you note that his only actual scumread is PeregrineV. He has projectmatt listed as 'null' and he said he had a gut town read on DCL, minus the redFF vote (which doesn't seem to imply he's nixed his townread on DCL). He also says that Korts is "null leaning scum," yet suggests we lynch Peregrine, projectmatt, or DCL.

He doesn't really have reads. He's making shit up, posting tons now to try and pull his ass out of the fire. Kill it kill it kill it dead.

Would

probably

be more likely to happen if you were voting him instead of me, quadz.

I've already said I'll push any wagon on redFF, implosion (who was to do ~something~ and then didn't give us a post~), DCLXVI or MoS. The wagon I'm on is currently the largest.

If you vote MoS, I'll vote MoS. But it's a trade: I want to know why you think redFF isn't the best choice for today, given that MoS tends to get better along the game (though that's no excuse for the attitude and I'll still lynch him dead till he learns).

[Tierce]

Is the other half the fact that I'm town and you-town have never actually played with me-town, Vi? Because that sure feels like it. -_- You've modded me-town before, but if you're town, it's that pile of extra knowledge that is holding you down here. I don't obvtown in all of my town games and you know this. I'm doing my best and you know this.

Christ, but this is ridiculous.


PEdit: Will fight you for the right to keep Ludi, quadz.

[Tierce]

For D1? Yes, it's a perfectly acceptable D1. No, I'm not at my most towniest, but that shouldn't be a requirement. I can't tunnel on town everyday, every game, Vi. I have scumreads, but they're not even posting enough for me to dissect them further. There doesn't seem to be an interest to lynch any of my three scumreads. So yes, I'll compromise on MoS, but don't expect me to be ridiculously happy about it. I don't have a case, I have "nullread who isn't doing a damn to prove he'd be a worse lynch than me or anyone else."

This is a game with post count recommendation and I'm the top poster. I do know the Ellitell applies to me, but do note how I'm not ever avoiding posting here in reply to any situation. I'm just trying not to post frantically, because it's a guideline. Want me to ignore it? Sure, I can do that, but it seems backwards. :/

[Tierce]

DCLXVI--Being online and not posting on this game. Yes, I'm posting 10+ times elsewhere for each time I post here. Compare the pace of this game to those other games and yeah, there's nothing there.

I tend to be lurky as scum. The problem with Vi's theory is that I'm hardly lurking when I'm the top poster. My lurking as scum involves much more than that, it requires dodging situations and people at selective times. It's tactical. Which... I'm not doing here at all.
(The name comes from Ellibereth, the player who loves to use that tell for hunting scum.)


Oh for pity's sake, Vi. I'm putting you on ignore mode until you start making sense.

[Tierce]

Whatever.

UNVOTE: redFF
VOTE: Mastermind of Sin

Make sure to save a few drops of his blood for me, Ludi.

[Tierce]

Mhmm.

Vastafarians

, don't forget to lynch BB sooner rather than later. He's doing that lurking thing (and next he's going to claim "I'm not lurking, I'm right here", which is, in and of itself, somewhat comical).

[Tierce]

I'm quite curious to know what it is about BBmolla that's supposed to make him scum.

As scum, he lurks even more than I do. And he's certainly doing that. His grand catch-up posts boil down to nothing, he hasn't commented on Vasta events in any way that's significant, but he is obviously paying attention to the threads to know when I bring up his name.

[Tierce]

Oh BB. Sometimes you're really adorable. Why do you draw scum when I'm town, though? :/

Whatever.

UNVOTE: redFF
VOTE: Mastermind of Sin

Make sure to save a few drops of his blood for me, Ludi.

Ew

This is disgusting

And Tierce's self meta is trash, she didn't lurk in Paranoia.

Funny how you call it 'disgusting' when I've already said I'm compromising on a nullread and explained every little step. For someone who is reading my posts, you have quite the selective memory.

Explain to me what is the logic of that lurking statement? Vi is calling me out on lurking, I'm saying I'm not lurking and presented evidence of the fact... so how,

even

if I had not lurked in Paranoia (which I did, at selected times to gauge responses before I jumped into events, because that's what

tactical lurking

means), does it mean that "she is not lurking here, therefore she is scum"? This logic is completely backwards. "Tierce lurked in some scum games, she is scum!" + "Tierce didn't lurk in a scum game [actually false but k], she is scum!" makes

absolutely no sense

. At best, you'd consider my (non-existent here) lurking to be a nulltell. As it is, the Ellitell

is

a pretty decent scumtell with me, but it's waaay more complex than "Tierce is posting elsewhere!", since some games move much faster than this one and I'm in several at once; it's "Tierce is avoiding this dodgy spot here". I know it, Vi knows it. I can self-meta this one as much as I want, I still have evident trouble dealing with it as scum. >___>

[Tierce]

Oh BB. Sometimes you're really adorable. Why do you draw scum when I'm town, though? :/

...really, Tierce?

Really. IIRC, we have been town together 4/9 times, including MwtK. Scum together once (PYP Redux), me-scum another (Paranoia), him-scum three times (Warlocks and Werewolves, Weather Mafia, Blood Bowl).

VASTA:

You compromising is disgusting, yes.

Why? How is it that me compromising on MoS is a bad thing (especially since apparently you are NOT reading all the posts that show how I'm done being all patient with MoS) and not a bad thing when iaun compromises, or quadz does,

or anyone else

? As Thor would put it: why is it good for the goose but not good for the gander?

In addition, methinks you should read this.

[Tierce]

Then I "really" don't know what you're talking about. I "really" think he's scum.

I don't have to make you happy with my play, Vi. I have to hunt scum, so as long as you are on that Tierce-vanity-wagon while calling me MoS's scumbuddy and not pushing MoS instead (pretty obvious he doesn't give two damns about me and would bus me if we were buddies at this stage), I'm ignoring you and doing my thing.

[Tierce]

On vasta:

I want BB dead if Panzer says he was not CCing. Because that's completely the kind of thing that scumBB would do on the fly, and I really don't believe a Mimic would be that common. If not, see: what happens if a Mimic targets a Mimic? What happens if three Mimics target each other?

Pretty convinced NS is town (I actually wasn't when he claimed, I didn't like that "directed by town" bit--I've never really seen a claiming PR say that unless it's an SK), but yeah--if Panzer is not claiming Mimic, BB is scum.

[Tierce]

Okay nevermind.

[Tierce]

Apparently them Vasta mimics were thinking that they were not town-aligned.

Which makes one wonder how NS knew he himself was town.

[Tierce]

I don't have to measure up to your expectations of what is pathetic or not, and what comes from Tiercetown or not. You're obviously wrong, you're obviously happy to be on a one-person wagon that won't get anything done today, so blah to you, handwave handwave etc. I'll get back to you until I've paranoid'd myself into a Vi-read one way or the other.

If you want to discuss Expectations On How Tierce-Town Behaves And How Vi (If Town) Is Horribly Wrong, save that for postgame and we will talk. "...Really?" comments don't get anything done when it was p-evident I was already explaining my scumread on BB, that has since withered away.

He's still a tunneling derpface, but whatdoiknow.

[Tierce]

EBWOP:
s/until/when

Sentence starting one way and ending another and proofread fail.


I've answered that one already. I'm remarkably bad at reading you. I've done this with other player(s?) before; set mode to Ignore and come back to you if you're still alive later in the game. As it is, you're even likely to be offed N1 if you're scum and this has multikillers, so I'm saving myself what can be an unnecessary headache and focusing efforts on people I actually believe I may be able to read.

[Tierce]

Yes it does. I don't have a read on you because I'm

deliberately

not pigeonholing myself into a red that would give me too much confidence/paranoia. I know I can't read you D1, so I'm not even trying. If I were scum, would it be easy to fake some elaborate conclusion similar to those I've reached before as town? Yes, it would. Am I doing it? No, because I have no reason to fake anything in this game.

[Tierce]

Probably. The fact is that I don't really care--I have no trust in my ability not to tunnel on a read on you, much like I can't read Glork, much like I can't read SpyreX. I know I don't (yet) have the ability to read you accurately on D1, so I postpone that and wait for inevitable-N1-death + flips + connections + (in Viscum's case) imploding scumteam. I'm being practical, because none of you are players who would get lynched D1 even if I had The Bestest And Most Reasonable Scumread Ever And A Daycop Guilty And All on you, so there's little point wasting my time this early.

[Tierce]

I don't have scumreads on that wagon. There's you and Mutesheep Ludi right there

, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a four-town four-vote wagon on town on D1.

Town:

iamausername
quadz08

Null-town:

DCLXVI
projectmatt

Null-scum:

implosion

Scum:

redFF

Etc.:

Korts

Magister Ludi

Mastermind of Sin
PeregrineV
Zajnet

Vi:

Vi

[Tierce]

Oh wait, that's not what you were asking, that was the wagon on me.

What about the redFF wagon? Would I lynch him? Yes. Who is the bussing scum? DCLXVI, if any.

[Tierce]

UNVOTE: Mastermind of Sin
VOTE: redFF

[Tierce]

I'll vote one of them tomorrow. Probably red.

Yes.

There. Now you can vote.

[Tierce]

No. No-lynch majority end the day early, but we need a simple majority to

actually

lynch. Simple majority = 50% + 1, rounded down.

I'm just getting a sinking sense that I've been completely wrong here all Day.

You were tunneling on town for 14 days, so etc.

[Tierce]

Hmmm I'm wrong, it seems.

simple majority 
noun
1. less than half of the total votes cast but more than the minimum required to win, as when there are more than two candidates or choices.
2. less than half the number of voters registered.

@mods: Can we have a confirmation on whether this is a plurality lynch system?

[Tierce]

I meant on the content of it.

but etc.

unvote

VOTE: redff

The majority of people present in the room are voting for one of the two people you are calling scum, and some even say they would lynch either of them, so what exactly are you looking for in terms of comments? "Yes, very good, I agree--and I'm already voting MoS/redFF." It's a pretty bland and innocuous post, so just vote (you did) and keep going, as the only people who will (if anything) bother commenting on it are MoS and redFF.

You seem to be trying far too hard to be seen making an effort. What does it matter to you what other people think of your scumreads if they are already showing support via votes on them? You're not convincing anyone else to vote them, you just seem to be trying to convince yourself/spinning yarn to show your scumreads are Right And Righteous to justify your vote.

The post(s) itself/themselves isn't/aren't bad, but this insistence for people to comment on what you are posting when you don't even seem to be directing them at anyone feels rather odd.

[Tierce]

You made a good post.

:applause:

*shrug* There's nothing there to argue against that I see, nor are any groundbreaking revelations.

I wasn't really planning on lynching implosion Today and it was about two people on my bulletz list, so... um... etc.?

This is my point, implosion. People don't really care. Yeah, sure, you're showing why you suspect redFF and MoS, so... acting on it is the next logical step, and at this junction if anyone disagreed that strongly with either of those getting lynched, they would be standing their ground already. Okay, good post, fine, either direct it at

someone in particular

or post it and move along. No one really cares how many hours you spent on it; Vi and I once played with someone who spent about 8h on posts and frankly they didn't seem all that illuminated, so... (shrug) /yos2

[Tierce]

What the hell at them fairies beyond the portal.

VASTA:

HEY.
GUYS.
GOOD FOLK.

Stop claiming Mimic even if you are one! You're not going to get any extra supertown status from it after the already-claimed ones, and I really doubt that there are four town Mimics in the game and/or that all Vasta-town is Mimic (also lol Toon Fighter be scum).

So. Really. Keep it to yourselves, if you're town there's no need to let scum know anymore than they already do. One of the best weapons we have is ensuring that scum doesn't know how to place well-aimed strikes at our PRs, and it's the

fifth

claim today. Hush now. Vote Shmu.

[Tierce]

that all Vasta-town is Mimic (also lol Toon Fighter be scum)

I actually kind of hope this is the case. (except Toon Fighter is already scum)

I very much doubt it. It could make for an utterly insane chain of PRs/confirmations.

And Mimics as VTs? No, that makes no sense--it would be utter hell to balance.


Mnfrgh. Just looked through Cow games--he does like a bit of role madness. I still don't buy Mimic-VT, but about them being town... Not interested in lynching among them today; however, we should break down that knot sooner or later in some manner.

[Tierce]

Completely flavorless claim? In this game?

Ew.

[Tierce]

UNVOTE: redFF

I need to think about this, and redFF is right about mos being able to come in and hammer anytime. and regardless of mos' alignment from his perspective that would be the right play.

I confess, I only unvoted cause I wanted to be able to hammer. I never get to hammer.

VOTE: redFF

DIE SCUM DIE

I hate this, even if you were calling him scum before now. It feels contrived regardless of redFF's alignment.


And Vi, the obv downsides are 1) we can never get good things, so there's obviously a catch if they are town and 2) the catch would be that the scum are frigging powerhouses of doom. :/


Something occurred to me last night:

Instead of using your normal night choice, you may send the choice “Portal”. This will cause you to wake up in the other thread. Changing threads

in this way

can only be prevented by your death.

Emphasis

mine.
Methinks there be portal-manipulating powers out there.

[Tierce]

The hell?
Well that's a new and innovative way to mess up my quotes.

@mods, please fix the 'qote' tag above'. Thanks in advance.

[Tierce]

UNVOTE: redFF

I need to think about this, and redFF is right about mos being able to come in and hammer anytime. and regardless of mos' alignment from his perspective that would be the right play.

This has nothing to do with "wanting to hammer". If you just wanted to hammer, you could have said so and it would be far more natural.

Actually, redFF scum > ViViVi scum; redFF town may well mean ViViVi town. Hmm.

[Tierce]

VASTA:

I was talking about redFF, not you.


PEdit:
...!
Plum is back?!
Wantwantwant.
(Hi. You don't know me, but I stalk plenty of games. Welcome back. ^_^)

PEdit again:
What a poor justification.

[Tierce]

ITT Tierce beats me to everything I want to say. :/

I'm sorry, would you like me to stop? >.>

What a poor justification.

Well it's the truth, would you rather have me lie and make up something better, I can do that if you want me to.

No, I would much rather you didn't lie in one or more of these posts:

UNVOTE: redFF

I need to think about this, and redFF is right about mos being able to come in and hammer anytime. and regardless of mos' alignment from his perspective that would be the right play.

I confess, I only unvoted cause I wanted to be able to hammer. I never get to hammer.

VOTE: redFF

DIE SCUM DIE

There are clearly veiled intentions in at least one of these posts. What if someone had hammered before you did after you asked for the hammer? Wow, big deal. Instead, you chose to (apparently) lie about your intent. It's shady. It's contrived. It doesn't add up well and it reeks of a bus if redFF flips scum.

[Tierce]

Are you insinuating that the scum don't know who to target best when it comes to the town's townreads, Korts? It doesn't really work that way.
If the scum are not bright enough to understand who the town considers town, even without expressing it in words, saying it out loud will not exactly improve the chances of them winning by tenfold--scum who can't spot general townreads is pretty doomed.
If they are bright enough to spot them, having the town claim them won't change anything. Declaring townreads isn't going to hurt the town (and it isn't scummy, as I've heard some geniuses affirm ).

But MD discussion so etc.


PEdit: etc. etc. etc.

[Tierce]

I would apologize profusely, but you'd know I don't really mean it, so.

[Tierce]

I thought about dropping an etc. in there, yes. Then I decided to be a rebel

and etc.

(ITT, we move toward the

Vierce

Six-Third-hour Convergence.)
PEdit: Ahem. >.> Anyway...


This thread needs more comments. implosion, what do you think of redFF's claim? Would you have been part of the lynch if you had been here between claim and hammer? Why/why not?

[Tierce]

Can we stop with the MD discussion now?
Korts has made his point. I've made my point. So have Vi and implosion. I don't think this discussion is furthering scumhunting in any way since, no matter our alignments, none of us has incentive to lie about this, skew facts, etc.
i.e. you're not catching scum right now.

This thread needs iaun, pmatt, MoS and PereV (and Ludi, but that's because Ludi's town cheeks are cute). And Korts actually commenting on game-state--actual catch-up would be appreciated.

[Tierce]

ITT I want MoS and DCLXVI dead. Awkward-y awkwardness at this time calls for hemp rope.

And still require posts from the players who did not witness this gallows scene.

[Tierce]

@DCLXVI:

I had little interest in MoS dead other than compromise--before.

Now

I want him dead. And I want you dead too, by the same token. I'm fairly curious

why

you think I want MoS dead and why you, for once jumped on a post to hit the section that does

not

have to do with you.

VASTA:

As long as you lynch before the deadline, I do believe there is a somewhat implicit Vi + Tierce request to delay the lynch as long as possible.

[Tierce]

That is not what I asked.

What do you think is the reason I want MoS dead?

[Tierce]

Not really interested in explaining why, no, especially since I've already done so and you apparently missed it. Carry on.

[Tierce]

No, no. That won't do, DCLXVI.

Do tell: what

do

you think is the reason I believe you and MoS are scum? Because you are accusing me of not lynching MoS when I had the chance and wasn't interested in him, and now that I'm interested in you (and him) for a new reason that you apparently get the 'basic idea' of, it becomes scummy? This makes no sense.

So please clarify why you think I believe you and MoS are scum.


PEdit: Ew. Disappointed.

[Tierce]

Hmm. Actually,

not

really disappointed. At the quality of it, yes. At the townieness, not so much--the intent is still pretty there.

[Tierce]

I'm female.

Because you are accusing me of not lynching MoS when I had the chance and wasn't interested in him,

But you were interested in him. You had your vote on him up until you hopped over to redFF.

Are you even reading?

I claimed (several times I believe) that a vote on MoS would be a compromise vote on a nullread because no one was especially interested in pushing the redFF wagon through. In fact, you were quite aware of this, since you did mention wanting people to compromise and vote redFF, after I voted MoS and explained why, with a pretty link to hito's

On Compromises

discussion. I chose not to lynch MoS, then a

nullread

, because Vi gave me the chance of creating a larger wagon on my

scumread

, redFF. This is not rocket surgery.

Address the crux of my question.

What

do you think is the reason I want you and MoS dead?

And yes, you are going to explain my reads for me when you claim you have a 'basic idea' of the reasons behind them and are using my reads to justify suspecting me. I'm scumhunting

you

, and you seem to be making a hullabaloo of reads that have pretty self-evident reasons and you claim to understand,

so explain them

.

VASTA:

Voweltown:

Vi & Tierce: The flavor in my Role PM essentially matches the flavor in the Vasta opening post..

I missed the important bit the first time around. Nobody Special, what opening post flavor are you referring to? Please quote it.

[Tierce]

What do you think is the reason I want you and MoS dead?

For the last time. Why the heck should I explain what your reads are. You can do that yourself.

No. You want to know what my problem with you is?

You are jumping on actions. You are not jumping on motivations. You are taking instances out of context and claiming they are scummy, instead of looking at the overall picture.

This is scummy.

I could understand if you admitted "okay, sorry, I don't really have any idea why you want me and MoS dead at this stage" after I asked you several times to explain why you think I want you dead. That could tell of eager town thinking they had found a discrepancy. You didn't do this; you are sticking to "but this is scummy even though I won't look at the motivations!"

The burden of proof is on the accuser. You are calling me scummy for calling MoS scummy, I asked you to look at the reasons for my reads, you say you have a 'basic idea' what it is and refuse to explain it back to me? You are calling me out on a compromise nullread vote and comparing it to wanting a scumread dead after a truckload of things happened? How does this even compute on a townie mindset?

You know why I wanted you to explain the reasons for my reads, that you claim you are aware of?

Because those are my stated motivations.

This proves you are not analyzing those, and just hop on every little thing without looking at the flow of events.

If redFF flips scum, you are next, for events before and after the hammer, AND the hammer itself. If he flips town, I will give you good, long consideration, because this complete lack of awareness of what my reasoning for you+MoS scum is AND claiming you know what it is at the same time? This is not going to fly.

Because Tierce wants to know if you're paying attention. You're making claims about Tierce's actions that show you aren't actually comprehending what she's saying...and then you're still claiming to have read her posts and understood what she said...so she wants you to explain it in your own words to prove that you're paying attention.

Exactly. The fact that he refuses to do so comes across as a scummy jump on actions v. motivations.

[Tierce]

That's no excuse for deliberate anti-protown behavior, MoS. But anyway, another MD discussion.

[Tierce]

Not that one.

This

one.

VOTE: redFF

L-1

Anyone who makes a (supposedly) L-1 vote will not get to hammer. That redFF wagon screams bus from the moment DCLXVI made that circular implosion/redFF read.


Count me thoroughly unimpressed with pmatt, iaun and PereV at this time. There still needs to be rope for DCLXVI. And MoS. But mostly DCLXVI, from whom I still await the reasoning for my reads.

At this stage, redFF is scum. If not mafia, he is SpyreX-sig scum who deserved that rope.

[Tierce]

VASTA:

You need to lynch. Stop running people to L-1, forcing them to claim and then shying away from the rope, you're just painting a pretty picture for scum to know where to strike and wasting time with these silly wagons.

Make a decision and stick with it.

[Tierce]

Oh look. Now I want roflcopter dead too.

But ffs, Vasta, LYNCH. Don't run someone else up and then get all coy. You're going to lynch through claimed PRs sooner or later, and scum will claim PRs too.

So do it.

Good grief.

[Tierce]

Follower is generally a tracker variation.

And with that, this makes me wonder about Toon Fighter's 'Healer' claim.

...

Yes?

[Tierce]

Tierce did not move. Tierce was moved. Tierce is not overly pleased with these developments.

Then again, Tierce never really got down to reading Vasta so perhaps it's for the best.

Today

Tierce

I walked for twice the time I slept. Excuse me, I need to go take a good long nap and hope my feet don't hate me any more when I wake up.

[Tierce]

Someone is having fun framing me (in a rather stupid way). I say have at.

(Zzzzzbed.)

[Tierce]

Hold the hell up.

If you can only affect players in your own thread, this means I was affected by someone in Aia N1, and in Vasta N2. This either means that two different people did it, or that quadz/MoS did it (and that they can do so and move at the same time).

This needs more mulling because seriously bed bed.

[Tierce]

In the name of everything you hold sacred, stop quicklynching in the threads I'm in. ._. Seriously, this is doing nothing for my motivation. Yeah, sure, we're three scum down, but that's no excuse to go HERPDERP let's quicklynch while Tierce is out enjoying the lovely Portuguese summer (or in semi-comatose sleep due to exhaustion).

I have one tidbit of information that occurred to me today is actually Very Important--not only am I being forcibly moved, but someone is actually

overruling

my night choice. Last night, I specifically sent in a "Here" (Vasta) message as my Night Action choice, and ended up portaled back. There is absolutely nothing in my role that should be causing this. (Which should be pretty damn obvious when I said I thought all Aia natives had typical mafia flavor; this might not be true because it could boil down to pretty wonky balance and poor design, but anyway.)

I repeat:

there is a power that is capable of overruling Portal choices and/or force a player to move if they specifically choose not to

. The ability to overrule something town chose screams

scum effect

--which adds insult to injury on my PoV of this matter--there should be no way another town role has more influence than I do on choosing to portal or not, but it makes sense for scum to overrule town choices.
Obviously we don't know about the reverse effect (staying put when trying to move).


I won't be discussing your 'logic' in Tierce-movements, PeregrineV, because I'm not scum--I won't consider the possibilities that don't have Tierce-town in the equation for obvious reasons; it's hypotheticals that aren't true and I'm not here to debate philosophy. Furthermore, if there is someone who is town who is causing this, they are idiots and deserve a punch to the face. (Also, see above, makes no sense for this to be a town effect, since I chose the Non-Portaling action last night.)

No, I never actually read Vasta in depth while I was there. I was reading along, but I didn't really get down to "okay, let's reread the thread I'm in because actually making enlightened lynch choices here is an Important Thing". I got lazy. Now they're howling for my blood and god only knows why.

I

know I'm being framed, but I don't expect the rest of the town to. If this game reaches a point in which lynching me is necessary to clear my slot and for the town at large to actually realize that THERE ARE SCUM AFFECTING PORTALING, I'll take it. Plum jails/roleblocks me? I'll take it--heck, if I'm jailed, logic dictates at least I won't be moved

again

, so wooo. If you flip town, Vasta doesn't lynch Mafia and there's a no-kill here? Yeah, I'd resign myself to a stupid lynch. I've been saying from the start that being lynchbait is something I am not up to, and I'd much rather die before LyLo so town Wakes Up than be dragged into a losing situation.


I suspect/believe there's probably more I need to reply to, this is off the top of my head. Have mercy--very tired. Will check through the threads and see if there's something remotely important later today, but I have a few other things to attend to in the meantime.

[Tierce]

Oh wait.

VASTA:

Vi's 659 is an excellent reason Tierce is mafia.

Hey Amrun.
Amrun.
Remember Weather Mafia II, where you accused me of only hunting one scumteam?

What was my alignment in Weather Mafia II, Amrun?

Oh, right.

I was Town

.


Yesterday, I was hunting for blue scum because blue scum had potential links

in the frigging thread I was dropped in

. Notice how I dropped DCLXVI after that initial post that I drafted during night--why should I try and lynch in

Vasta

from

Aia

D1 connections when there were

Vasta

D1 connections to be studied?

Seriously, try thinking before you post. It's not like I wouldn't subvert meta for kicks as scum, but

you know I do this as town

Going "omg she's scum!" because I was looking for blue in Vasta is at best ridiculous, at worst scummy, as you're purposefully ignoring previous evidence on my typical behavior.

[Tierce]

see if there's something remotely important later today

Yeah no. Sleep is more important and I can barely keep my eyes open. let me know if something needs addressed stat and it will be done when I wake up as long as none of you idiots have quicklynched in Vasta too.

[Tierce]

Shameless prod dodge, it's geocoinfest weekend.

[Tierce]

Slackiting slack picking it up. Eventually.

Hi Vasta, why is Tammy even alive at this stage?


What do you want me to say, NS? I have no idea what happened, I don't know if you're town or not, I really couldn't care less at this stage--I can only speculate about this stuff, and I know

I

am not to blame to what has been happening. Scum framed me N1, now I don't know what else might be happening since I didn't get any kind of notification that I had been moved or why. The only thing this might affect is the possibility that scum can overrule portal action choices, and from there it's turtles all the way down.

[Tierce]

\o/ That feels

good

.

[Tierce]

I figured that was covered by the guideline role > rules. Probably should've added a qualifier of some sort, but I really don't see this as a big problem.

That's a decent guideline and it's what stopped me, but this is still lying to the players. "Power roles can't target players in the other thread" is what the rules say. "You can target players in the other thread" is what DCLXVI's power role says. When you have a contradiction like that, a mislynch is very likely to happen, because this is something that goes directly against the info that town

does

have for certain, which are the rule posts and their own role PMs.

For example, this is a good way of wording a rule that allows for loopholes:

Instead of using your normal night choice, you may send the choice “Portal”. This will cause you to wake up in the other thread.

Changing threads

in this way

can only be prevented by your death.

This allowed for something to affect thread-moving.

The way you mentioned power roles and their available targets had no such wiggle room. Adding a rule/guideline that role > rules would do wonders to fix that. (Or simply "as a general rule, power roles can only target those in the same thread".)


Also, it might be me, but the sign-up thread could have done with a bit more clarity on how the thread system would work. I don't really know what I was expecting, but this wasn't it. I only wish I could have picked out towntells by people who were just as befuddled by the initial state of D1 as I was.


With that said, I really liked this game.

I'm still bitter I didn't get to lynch Tammy.

Impressive town work all around, even though scum were pretty lackluster.

Also, yay town meta in which my D1 is pretty miserable in terms of obvtownieness.

[Tierce]

When you get to the point in which a townie is willing to roll over and be lynched by something you are willingly doing as Town... :/ Good thing the game did not get to that point, but frankly, I'm still annoyed at how DCLXVI used his action.

As Amrun says, it's not only about the action itself--it's how it affects the person you're using it on on a

playing

level. When I'm expecting something and instead am forced to adjust to something else, not once, not twice, but

thrice

in a game and there is nothing in my role or in town claims that indicate this might be a town effect, I lose interest in scumhunting as normal--I just want to pin the bastard who is doing this to me. Reading the threads? For what, if I'm going to be tossed around like a pinball come next day?

The way this touches on a player's motivation/interest is very close to what happens to people's motivations if a game gets too many pages overnight or there is open bickering in the thread. How would you feel if, instead of being part of the thread you've repeatedly read and analyzed during the night, you ended up in a thread/game that you've barely skimmed and is on the 23rd page? This is very demotivating, and then it happened again... and again.

[Tierce]

5) Speaking of that, I was a bit surprised when at least half the town mimics asked "so am I town, or neutral?" It seemed like a pretty generic town win condition wording to me, am I wrong about that? Would that have tripped up everyone? We were going for more flavorful PMs without the bullet-point style that I've seen around a lot lately.

This is something else I want to mention: look at the wincons--the town wincons are worded differently throughout the PMs. And threats to

your

well-being, not the well-being of the

town

, can be a sign that you are a Survivor. I understand their reasoning.

But people were talking outside the game thread(masons/scumteams) and the rules leave no wiggle room saying that's not OK either. Is it just because people are used to that rule being broken, but the game-specific rule was game-specific, so it was assumed to be universally accurate?

Thinking about it, yes, that's exactly it. I'd expect a rule that was designed specifically for this game to encompass all aspects of this game.

Also, it might be me, but the sign-up thread could have done with a bit more clarity on how the thread system would work. I don't really know what I was expecting, but this wasn't it. I only wish I could have picked out towntells by people who were just as befuddled by the initial state of D1 as I was.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by that. Could you elaborate?

Again, it might be me, but IIRC I did not expect us to be divided by threads/restricted to them.

1) QTs will be posted if the teams are ok with it/do it themselves. I'll give it probably a day or two for anyone to say no before posting the links myself.

You probably want to remove them from the role PMs, then.

3) I'm

considering

making a sequel if there's enough interest, hopefully fixing some of the problems that I saw as it played out. What do people think?

Vi's rule of trilogies--people will likely focus a lot more on how to break the mechanics. As long as you can design accordingly, etc.


I know, DCLXVI. I'm just trying to show you that that kind of role also has a psychological effect on the target, which should also be considered when using it one way or another. It's not likely you'll stumble on such a role again any time soon, but roles that interfere with a player's ability to participate and have consequences outside of their control can be quite demotivating for the target.