Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Legacy (Game Over)

[ThAdmiral]

vote: zoroaster

what is that a thumbprint for a face?

[ThAdmiral]

Ok so I forgot to subscribe to this game. Anyway let the recap commence:

I have to skip the random nonsense stage of my posting (inb4 Yates says "The entire game?") in order to claim:

I am Solid Snake. If you target me, you will die. This is seriously a claim of my actual role. I am a paranoid gun owner. However, my role does not make it clear whether you will die immediately. It

is

clear that

you will die if you target me

.

Do you have any reason to assume the person who targets you wouldn't die immediately? I'm just interested in why you would mention it.

In any case since you have claimed this much would you mind giving your flavour.

In general town are more likely to be ignorant of flavor than scum. Scum are more careful in knowing everything before playing.

This is a good point. I doubt scum wouldn't be aware of the fact it is a crossover game - even just based on the simple fact that they would know more roles in the game (aka their buddies roles).
Edit: basically what kk said in 29.

would it make more sense to lynch Acosmist relatively soon (before lets say... day 3), than leave him alive being unconfirmed?

serious discussion time folks.

Treat it like a miller claim. Ignore it for the most part and decide whether to lynch him or not based on his play. /discussion
Edit: so basically what kk said in 44. I like the way kk thinks.

Though I guess its possible for him to be scum and fake a town tell/go for an easy lynch.

I don't buy this. It's such a slight tell I doubt scum would even think town would pick up on it as a town tell, unless you get a scum to say it but then it becomes a very messy gambit that could easily backfire if one dies later.

Hey Thad, RVS is over.

It's over when I say it's over!!!!

I think I'd rather do a MOD meta of Pappums... I'm not sure I'm sold on the idea of a PGO. AND SOLID SNAKE????? Dudes the muthafuckin l33t assassin.... PGO??? PGO??? You're looking at a JoaT, strongarm vig... Something like that, but PGO....... doubting it tbh.

you're right. if you've played any MGS games, you'd know snake keeps his cool and isn't a bitch.

Lets keep the fail-assumptions-based-on-flavour-and-outguessing-the-mod to a minimum, please.
Edit: fuck me, Kk's done it again (44). I might as well stop talking now because KK has undoubtedly said everything I want to say already.

I think it's much

more

concerning that he'd ever think scum would fakeclaim Solid Snake in a Harry Potter themed game in the first place.
Reads to me like he's faking not knowing flavour.

I think it's more likely that he is acting opportunistically as scum, and genuinely didn't know about the mgs crossover than faking it tbh. And I think

that

is very unlikely.

Why

wouldn't

I claim, and immediately?

Well there are two schools of thought.
a) the safe method - basically what you did, claim first post day 1
b) the risky (kinda dumb) method - play really town/claim another power role but try to ensure you aren't doc protected to try and draw a scum nk
edit: benmage expands on these ideas in 63.
(I'm proving rather useless aren't I?)

unvote vote I Am Innocent

3 really weak questions. Bad vote. Reads as scum trying to interject themselves into the game and put the spotlight elsewhere.

Not a bad shout.

Why are you role fishing?

This seems keen.

Why are you role fishing?

flavor fishing. Glad someone else found it to be a scummy post.

But this seems even more keen. BC's posts are rubbing me the wrong way.

Nothing. BUT - best case scenario you know you are signing up to be killed in LYLO. Also, as others have pointed out, if you play scummy the Town has no reason to wait until LYLO. So you basically paint a target on your back and have everyone paying attention to every one of your posts looking for reasons to get rid of you so you have to play Townie McTownerson. As scum, this is a pretty big gamble. Plus, Acosmist claimed right out of the shoot so he also risked the "real PGO" counter claiming. I realize PGO doesn't occur with that much regularity, but it happens enough that it was a risk. These are just some of the reasons I believe his claim.

Also, playing over the top obv Town as PGO could lead to death of a Doctor or BG or Cop or Investigator or... I don't know if historically it plays out this way but I suspect that non-claiming PGO's likely kill more Town than Scum by not claiming specifically because I think there are more chances of Town visiting you than scum. But that's just a guess. I would personally claim in my first post if I were PGO.

This is all good, reasonable stuff. To the town pile with you Yates!

that being said Benmage's 92 makes a good point about the "next evolution of the fakeclaim opening Miller claim". There certainly are benefits for scum to claim pgo (other than the obvious avoidance of town prs, you would also be able to avoid a nk from any opposing scumteam), and if Acosmist is in fact lying scum then I will definitely be tipping my hat to him in post game.

It's more than flavor fishing. The VT PM is in the OP. He's PR-fishing.

Unvote
Vote: Yates

I guess it could be at a stretch but I don't read it that way. I didn't even realise the vt role was in the first post till I went back and looked.

This is my first large theme game, but I have to agree that speculating on PRs and alignment this early is dangerous. Wouldn't this type of discussion be more suited for D2?

Any discussion that pushes the game forward is good discussion.
There's no point holding back points to be made and setting arbitrary times in which to talk about them.

UNVOTE:

Yates does come off to be fishing a little.

I don't like posts where people unvote and then don't revote someone else. Especially when his second line expresses suspicion of someone else. Why not just vote yates? An unused vote is a useless vote.
Edit: been beaten to the punch again. This time by tammy in 129.
On that subject - good first post by tammy. Welcome to the town pile.

Except you did. If Jason has any flavor, then he's not a VT.

Ok. This is a mostly fair point though I think my point above remains true. If you are a VT and your name is Voldemort, then what Jason was speculating would make sense. Conversely, if you are VT Uncle Vernon Dursley it makes no sense to make this speculation. That's all I meant by flavor matching the role. Anyway, I didn't want him to tell me any of that I just wanted to know why he didn't do this.

I accept this explanation.

@Cyber - Speculating on PRs.. really never good. Just a lot of discussion surrounding the outted PGO Acos. Speculating on alignment...?? Welcome to mafia?

Sorry I meant the alignment based on the name, ie Solid Snake must be Town because he's a "good guy" in the videogame.

Yeah, that sort of speculation is bad.

I don't know. I'm used to smaller games and I've been playing high lately. As a general rule, early on day one I like to leave my vote unattached when I'm thinking about stuff.

Is this true? I can't be bothered trawling through your posting history to see if you are lying or not.

@ Peregrine I saw you take this same stance regarding the PGO towards Quadz in Otherworld. Did your perspective not change even a little, after the doctor derped and healed Quadz thereby killing himself and almost clearing my partner who had been blocked that night and would have been confirmed scum but for the added kill?

Thing is I'll trade not having scum kill themselves by attempting to kill a PGO over having the doctor kill themselves every time.

I meant to only give my thoughts once more, since the cat can't be stuffed back into the bag, so this is a good question.

I know conventional wisdom is, in the case of miller, to claim, so that the cop doesn't investigate you and get back a scum result.
However, by claiming your role as miller, you are also saying "I will most likely be the target of a cop investigation due to my scummy or anti-town play. In addition, my play will be bad enough to require an investigation of me over all other current players."

If you are going to claim PGO in order to save town PRs, you are claiming that "I will most likely be the most obvious town and the greatest scumhunter the thread has ever seen. This will cause watchers and doctors to want to target me, but I won't be so town as to draw the nightkill or the attention of a scum PR. Or, I will be so scummy that I will cause investigative or town blocking roles to target me causing their death, but I won't be so scummy as to be lynched."

So, as far as Acomist, it's going to be a claim and nothing else.

I don't think that when someone is claiming miller they are saying that at all, ditto pgo. It's simply the safest move to avoid complications down the road because essentially we can't predict what other people will do and it's better not to leave it up to chance. Haven't you ever felt like you've played a really smart game as scum, only to find out that some bastard cop has randomly targeted you and fucked everything up? Or a game where you have mainly stayed in the background because you're the doc and don't want to draw the attention of the scum, but been killed by them anyway?

@ rapdicanyon (post 172): but then what motivation would kk have for calling you town at all if he also wants to discredit you/imply you are scum?

(@ kk: but I agree, his stubborness does seem town, doesn't it?)

[ThAdmiral]

@Thad

an explained vote would rock.

I actually meant to vote and forgot. ("An unused vote is a useless vote" right thad? I'm such a hypocrite! )
It's out of bloodcovenant, zabriel and I am innocent for reasons mentioned in the wall post. Iac interests me the most right now.

vote: I am innocent

@ yates and jason: could the argument between you two be more pendantic?

Do you have any reason to assume the person who targets you wouldn't die immediately?

I'm not sure they would die immediately. I'm not sure they wouldn't.

In any case since you have claimed this much would you mind giving your flavour.

I am a FOXDIE carrier.

Interesting.
I pretty much buy your claim.

I am not a fan of anybody on the Aco wagon. The claim fits the theme, but it's different enough from the expectation that it's unlikely that he pulled it out of his ass. I'm pretty sure some of the pressure on him is scum looking to push a mislynch.

What is this?
1. no one is on the acosmist wagon. He literally has 0 votes.
2. "I'm pretty sure some of the pressure on him is scum" is a pretty pointless statement. A useful statement would be

who

you think are the scummy ones pushing for a mislynch. But this might be difficult because of the, you know, no one voting him bit.

[ThAdmiral]

On phone so this will be brief.

Avox death indicates Jason, Yates and Nero are town.

I'm starting to dislike the zabriel wagon. Has the non-resistant feel of a wagon on town.

Vote:bloodcovenant

Didn't like his recent posting

[ThAdmiral]

Update: I officially declare the zabriel wagon full of fail

[ThAdmiral]

Hey THAD, stop postering and vote him. His "I'm pretty sure some of the pressure on him is scum" but not voting for anyone that was putting pressure on Aco looks like a "my buddies be casting doubt but I can't vote them" statement. And even if they aren't its a

IIOA

statement.

Its "posturing".

(@ kk: but I agree, his stubborness does seem town, doesn't it?)

Not sure whose stubborness you're referencing here (Yates or rapidcanyon). The answer would probably be yes either way though.

For the record I was talking about rapidcanyon. But yeah, yates seems town as well.

Bloodcovenents 214 (I won't go picking through it piece by piece) reads like someone looking for reasons to call people scum, rather than actually trying to fairly analyse things.

I don't think much of any of the votes on me. They aren't really high on my list of shit I care about.

Look at this! This guy is town. I absolutely don't see a scum zabe faking the "I give 0 fucks" vibe. That reads genuine. I feel like scum zabe would be freaking the fuck out right about now.

This is my first large theme game, but I have to agree that speculating on PRs and alignment this early is dangerous. Wouldn't this type of discussion be more suited for D2?

Um.

Anyway

Vote: Yates

Cyber if you're lost just sheep me. This is a good vote.

hmmm possible coaching here.... scum trying to lead scum maybe?

Mmmmm, probably not.

[ThAdmiral]

I'm starting to dislike the zabriel wagon. Has the non-resistant feel of a wagon on town.

We should probably still be killing it since its nothing but a distraction/mislynch bait and a town night action magnet.

Come on this is bad justification.

@nero, i just noted two possible slips where he indicated more than 1 scum team. interesting shit man.

And this is bad "Look at this nail in the coffin I found" stuff. He didn't slip. He's not saying "there

is

2 scum teams". Furthermore it's not even scummy to postulate about multiple scumteams in a large theme game.

Update: I officially declare the zabriel wagon full of fail

Why?

I think he's being unfairly jumped on for more or less reasonable things. His main failure is that he is posting opinions which don't seem to be fully formed, or fully thought through. Furthermore he sometimes doesn't respond to direct questions, for whatever reason, which gives people easy ammunition to throw at him (ie "why didn't you answer my question in xxxx?").
Basically I don't see a convincing case that there are scum motivations behind his actions, just sub-optimal play.

[ThAdmiral]

@nero, i just noted two possible slips where he indicated more than 1 scum team. interesting shit man.

And this is bad "Look at this nail in the coffin I found" stuff. He didn't slip. He's not saying "there

is

2 scum teams". Furthermore it's not even scummy to postulate about multiple scumteams in a large theme game.

How do you know, why are you answering the question for him? covering for your scum buddy?

Unvote:
Vote: Theadmiral

Yes, that's exactly what I'm doing. Well done.

[ThAdmiral]

How do you know,

why are you answering the question for him?

covering for your scum buddy?

What question are you even talking about? This makes no sense.

[ThAdmiral]

Update: I officially declare zabriel full of fail

FIFY!!!

You know what? I agree with this. He is full of fail, as in he's playing badly. I don't, however, think he is full of scum.

So in your opinion we should let him live so he can active lurk and do nothing the whole game while he sits there and eats up information targets and (if town) makes an acceptable scapegoat that scum can tunnel on.

If he's town he should be modkilled anyways + town loose games 'cause town are to afraid to policy lynch n crap. Would you really want to trust this guy in LYLO?

I don't even think you can accuse him of active lurking. At worst he's not answering

some

questions put to him.

Wait, why should he be modkilled? Where did that come from?

It's nowhere near lylo, why do you feel you need to reduce this argument to an absurd abstraction like that?

That last post from IAI sucks dick!!!. I think its a slight scumtell to ISO since you should be reading the whole game instead. + it looks like jumping on the highest wagon instead of trying to find who the scummiest player is 'cause THE WHOLE "CATCHUP" POST IS DEDICATED TO ZAB. I simply do not get a town vibe from this 'cause I think you'd have more to say then just about one person.

I have an incredibly desire to switch gears and kill IAI.

This is better thinking. I didn't even realise the iso was only about zabriel. That's scummy as fuck. As in he just did an iso on the leading wagon so he could justify his own vote.

vote: iai

VOTE: ThAdmiral

*headdesK* its like he wants us to lynch him. Other than responding to things involving his claim. Can anyone say Acos has done anything this game?

He literally hasn't done anything else. But his claim is solid (c wat I did thar), so he gets a free pass.
I mean

I

believe it.

@Ben, Top 4 suspects and why please. Also would like your biggest town reads on record too.

This question is random as fuck.
Dae think directing attention elsewhere?

@Thad

I don't really want to vote BC. You previously voted IAI, and he just said he's going to be a useless lurker. Lets get that vote back on IAI.

Oh it's there now.

Do you have any reason to assume the person who targets you wouldn't die immediately? I'm just interested in why you would mention it.

Well this is a tad bit suspicious.

I asked because normally pgo's kill whoever target them immediately. I wanted to know why acosmist wasn't sure whether they would die immediately or not. The fact that he kills because of a disease (aka foxdie) means a delayed kill could make sense, which leads me to believe acosmist.

Furthermore he sometimes doesn't respond to direct questions, for whatever reason, which gives people easy ammunition to throw at him (ie "why didn't you answer my question in xxxx?").

Are you a supporter of Mitt Romney?

I don't see what this has to do with anything, but no. I live in Australia though so I don't really give all that many fucks.

Multiball is catchy but its a stupid term.

Where did that term come from out of interest?

[ThAdmiral]

just in case the mod doesn't see it because its buried in the middle of the post-

vote: iaminnocent

[ThAdmiral]

I don't really understand what you are getting at.

What I meant by the above quote, which was "Furthermore he sometimes doesn't respond to direct questions, for whatever reason, which gives people easy ammunition to throw at him (ie "why didn't you answer my question in xxxx?")", is that he has been displaying behaviour which, although not

necessarily

scummy in itself, can be easily used to make him

look

scummy, and provide more easy reasons for people to attack him.

[ThAdmiral]

As I explained it is evidence of poor/sub-optimal play far more than it is evidence of scumminess.

[ThAdmiral]

I.e. I think he is being unfairly picked on for not playing well, rather than because he is genuinely scummy.

[ThAdmiral]

* His [Zabriel's] position on Acosmist's claim was a bizarre dance. "I'm actually not considering people who went after him suspicious, mostly because I feel this is one of those cases where scum are just willing to let town make the case and then get slammed for it later." (Post 121) to "I am not a fan of anybody on the Aco wagon." and "I'm pretty sure some of the pressure on him is scum looking to push a mislynch." (Post 187 - worth noting that there was no wagon on Acosmist, zabriel later retconned it to "pressure" being the same thing as wagon). Also worth noting that he never named a single poster that was scummy due to putting non-wagon pressure on Acosmist. He just ignored questions that he couldn't answer.

To parrot yates this is a good point.

I don't know. I would still rather lynch someone else.

[ThAdmiral]

Catching up from I left off. I am writing as I read through. I like the Admiral's post 193, it is logical and makes sense overall.

Um, post 193 was authored by Jason...

Other than that your post is good.

Plus Nero killing a scum obv only added to that.

Wait, nero killed them?

Played with Benmage once, he was a prick in that game too

It was Zachs mountainous game,

from 2 years ago.

Lol, sounds like someone is holding a grudge.

[ThAdmiral]

Fair enough. On your secondary concern, he asked you that in the post right after you voted for him. I'd imagine that's why he focused on you specifically.

But why not just ask "why did you vote me, bro?" instead of asking 4 scumreads and townreads. Furthermore it was pretty clear in the post just above that ben agreed with Pine's assessment of IaI's earlier post, since ben voted him right after quoting pine and then said "lets do it". That seems pretty clear to me.

In any case, like many of IaI's questions in his posts (see his first post for example) they seem mainly to serve the purpose of distracting from himself, while also making it look like he's, you know, "scumhunting proactively" or whatever.

[ThAdmiral]

To be fair to him (IaI) it's probably his "best" post.
But even in that the thing about ben could be considered mudslinging (especially considering the fact that it was 2 years ago).
He also doesn't explain why he thinks bc could be scum when he says "I'm willing to bet that at least one of them are scum". Sounds like an easy way to be able to go whichever way the wind blows (this would be a more convincing point against him if he wasn't replacing out though).

I'm also annoyed by the fact he is replacing out because I tend to give people that replace in leeway, and I would have liked to see IaI's responses to the pressure that was building against him.

[ThAdmiral]

A lot is going on right now and I want to wipe the mental slate clean after the daykill. I'm not going to be putting in a post tonight.

Well can you get on that?
You have claimed something that most people believe, and hence have you as a townread.
I won't say you have a responsibility to post, but it would be really fucking helpful if you contributed.

[ThAdmiral]

Ok

[ThAdmiral]

Lemme ask you a question Thad. If you had serious questions about my gameplay and therefore my alignment and I ignored them you'd have a scum read on me correct?

I have more to say on this but I'd like your answer first.

Probably, but (and this might not sound fair) I hold you to a higher standard.

I'm also annoyed by the fact he is replacing out because I tend to give people that replace in leeway,

this is exactly why scum replace out.

Instead of try to smooth things over and explain away the heat on him he just leaves with saying a bunch of nonsense. And there's a distinct lack of scumhunting too.

True, but I think its poor form to use replacing out as a scumtell, because there are often genuine reasons behind it.

Edit: Woah. I saw angry pidgeon and I was like "am I posting in the wrong game". No, it just turns out you've joined this one. Hi ap.

[ThAdmiral]

True, but I think its poor form to use replacing out as a scumtell, because there are often genuine reasons behind it.

This!

Also, Hi Admiral.

I don't honestly understand why IaI has votes unless people thinking flaking is a tell.

So what have I gotten myself into?

Well IaI basically came in infrequently, asked a bunch of somewhat random questions that made it look like he was trying to seem "proactive".
He also did an iso specifically on zabriel and then voted zabriel. As if he wanted to be able to justify his getting on the zab-wagon.

zabriel is setting off the scumdar. His speculation of the possibility of having more than 1 mafia, indicates that he may know a bit more than he's letting on.

If this is your only reason for voting zab, I would say that isn't strong enough.

[ThAdmiral]

Only probably? I had figured that you'd defiantly have a scum read on me but I wanted to hear it from you. The point was that its ant-town to ignore questions. Asking question and getting responces can greatly influence those reads. Therefore not responding to questions is hindering our reads on him

AND

him being inexperinced has nothing to do with him avoiding questions.

True, but anti-town does not always = scum.
Plus he seems to have missed quite a bit in this game, as if he isn't really following it. Other than the questions there whole "acosmist wagon" thing even though no on had voted acosmist. I don't necessarily think he's been ignoring or avoiding people, he just hasn't been

reading

... for whatever reason.

Acosmist can't stop talking about his claim.

???????????????

What?!

UNVOTE: , VOTE: AngyPidgeon

Love to see where you pretend to get that from! I'm popping some popcorn. Should be a fun one!

If this is sarcasm, then Ha! Good joke.

If you are being serious you might want to check your iso.

[ThAdmiral]

If you are being serious you might want to check your iso.

Answering people's specific questions about my claim != me not being able to stop talking about it

Good to know you're going to bat for him, though. Makes me feel good about catching ALL the scums!

Seriously, the more I think about this the more I'm wondering how much we can forgive people for being village idiots. What exactly is a person supposed to do when pressed about the claim he made post 1? Ignore those posts completely? Because if someone ANSWERING DIRECT QUESTIONS INSTEAD OF IGNORING THEM somehow evinces an obsession of mine, then [arbitrary conclusion because seriously premise is false in all possible worlds]. I can guarantee that if I hadn't answered those questions, I would be getting heat for that from the same quarters.

So nope.

I think the point is: what else have you done besides answering questions.

[ThAdmiral]

@Acosmist - Serious question; why aren't you contributing to this game? You are supposed to be our conf-Town and leading the charge here. I am not kidding when I say that you did a better job of scum hunting AS SCUM in Metroid than you are doing right now. I am sorely disappointed in your play.

^^

[ThAdmiral]

Just going to do some wagon analysis. Have no idea what will turn up, but I am at a bit of loose ends right now as I'm not 100% happy with my ap vote and I've cooled on bc being scum.

Votecount 1.8

zabriel - 6 (jasonT1981, Melmond, Nero Cain, Kublai Khan, I Am Innocent, Zoroaster)

Votecount 1.14

AngryPidgeon - 6 (ThAdmiral, Kise, Acosmist, Nero Cain, rapidcanyon, Yates)

These are the two biggest wagons so far today at their peak (as far as I can recall). Now one would expect in a large game like this for there to be at least 1, possibly 2, scum on a wagon this size regardless of the alignment of the wagonee (due to bussing/distancing, or rival scumteams etc.).
Any analysis should be taken with a grain of salt, however, as this is not always the case, and without any other flips the analysis will tend to be pretty weak at this stage. In any case it might be something interesting to look back on in later days.

Notes:
- nero is on both, but I have him as a town read (due to "catching" av).
- on the zab wagon jason, nero and kk are all townreads leaving melmond, iai/ap and zoroaster.
- other than myself on the ap/IaI wagon yates, nero and aco are all townreads. I also lean town on rapidcanyon which means kise is my pick for scum on the wagon if there is one.
- other people that have voted zab throughout the day are tammy, cybertronix, bloodcovenent (are there any more? I haven't done a full check but these are people that have shown up on other vote counts). I have a town read on tammy, and am currently leaning town on bc.

Conclusions:
Need to have a closer look at the following:
- melmond
- zoroaster
- kise
- cybertronix

[ThAdmiral]

Hi Admiral. Is your vote one me purely a layover from IaI?

More or less. Am looking at other options now.

[ThAdmiral]

These are all relatively short. Nice.

- melmond
Melmond looks good to me. Mainly because he comes to a lot of the same conclusions I have (which indicates he is coming from a town perspective), and has explained himself and his thought processes fairly well from the get go. I also like how he isn't afraid of saying that his opinions changed (mainly in regards to zabriel) - I've often found that scum will find a target and then not budge off them unless they have a good reason to do so.

- zoroaster
Zoroaster's vote against jason doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I don't think "quick decisiveness" is a scumtell. I also don't like his zabe vote. I also don't like how he asked me questions such as why I didnt' think zab was scummy, but then when I gave an answer he never followed up on it. Seems like he is trying to keep justifying his spot on the zabriel wagon rather than fairly looking at whether it is a good wagon or not.

- kise
Hard to get a good read on, but what I do like is that he is coming at things from interesting angles: being suspicious of kk for "pulling strings", snift for his half-assed vote on shah. He's looking at players that other people aren't, and while that's not necessarily indicative of alignment it is something that I would like to keep in this game.

- cybertronix
Not a great iso. He talks about pr speculation for his first few post and then jumps on an easy zab wagon by parroting some other points.

Zoroaster and cyber now scumreads.

vote: zoroaster

[ThAdmiral]

@ThAd, I've got a heavier scum read on cyber, and no real read on Zoroaster, wanna start a Cyber wagon with me?

Unvote:
Vote: Cyber

Why not.

vote: cyber

Check out zoro though.

[ThAdmiral]

edit: ah, you have done

[ThAdmiral]

@Acosmist - Serious question; why aren't you contributing to this game? You are supposed to be our conf-Town and leading the charge here. I am not kidding when I say that you did a better job of scum hunting AS SCUM in Metroid than you are doing right now. I am sorely disappointed in your play.

^^

rtft, already answered

You're going to be sad you can't get rid of me this game.

Apparently "alot is going on IRL" but you make sure you find time to post your smartass comments like this one.

[ThAdmiral]

Mildly paying attention and felt the need to chime in yes.

Like I said, I'm playing another game that's in mylo right now and is seeing a lot of action right now so I'm devoting time to that.

Go ahead and build your case on me though. This should be fun.

Case has been built. Feel free to respond to it.

[ThAdmiral]

@Acosmist - Serious question; why aren't you contributing to this game? You are supposed to be our conf-Town and leading the charge here. I am not kidding when I say that you did a better job of scum hunting AS SCUM in Metroid than you are doing right now. I am sorely disappointed in your play.

^^

rtft, already answered

You're going to be sad you can't get rid of me this game.

What are you talking about?

You've posted 44 times in this game and its basically all been bullshit. I don't think you can use "irl stuff" as an excuse when you've been as active as you have been.

[ThAdmiral]

@ThAd: What changed your mind about BC being scum?

His posting style. Stubbornly sticking to his guns for the most part. Aggressively attacking people in a way that didn't strike me as scummy as it showed he didn't care what people thought about him. Being more or less blase about being called scummy by a few people.

Just shut up and play and stop being a whiny lil' prick.

Are you for real dude?

[ThAdmiral]

I agree with you on cyber, he doesn't look scummy to me at all and I hate his wagon.

I feel the same way about the melmond wagon tbh.

meh. Memond has a few scummy posts. He'd be a better lynch that Cyber. You have town reads on both AP and Snifit right?

Point them out pls.

What I've been thinking for a while now is that if you're not a PGO, you're a jester. That would make sense to me, because by claiming PGO you're not going to get NK'd and by playing like you are, you could very easily get lynched at some point, it wouldn't be a bad way to play it.

There are so many easier ways to get lynched. Unless he's some kind of "jester activated on day 3" or whatever, but once again it would be soooooooooo much easier to just keep your head down until day 3 and then "slip" scum.

Also I'm pretty sure jesters are only in bastard games these days and I believe that has to be advertised.

Oh and amrun , when looking at cybertronix, please note that avox told cyber to sheep him onto Yates.

Fuck. You're right. (again) That's a super-ballsy move for scum to make.

Hate to pull a zabe and all, but, you know, there could be two scum teams.
For me, however, the avox/cyber interaction doesn't rule out the possibility that they were scum together.

Melmond deserves votes for the jester spec anyhow. Says that Acosmist's flavor makes him probtown. Later says that Acosmist's claim is "plausible". Finally says he has been thinking Aco may be a jester for a while.

But why, and this goes for bc as well, would he go after someone almost universally agreed on to be town (due to his claim)? I think it would be much more likely for scum to take the path of least resistance.

This page plus Melmond ISO=seems to not be a bad lynch, but on 15 now.

This=bullshit unless you give reasons.

2. Why is Cyber a town read?

^^
This, I want this answered. If it's just the point tammy brought up I will be disappointed.

[ThAdmiral]

I hope you're not expecting me to hold off voting someone based on speculation of multiple scum groups before a single night has passed.

And no, it doesn't absolutely rule out a AurorusVox/Cybetronix scumteam but it makes it so improbable that I'm happy ignoring the possibility atm.

But please explain your "I've got such a town read on Melmond that I'm going to actively prevent his lynch" attitude.

Fair enough about avox/cyber, we'll have to agree to disagree. Here is where I explain my townread on melmond:

- melmond
Melmond looks good to me. Mainly because he comes to a lot of the same conclusions I have (which indicates he is coming from a town perspective), and has explained himself and his thought processes fairly well from the get go. I also like how he isn't afraid of saying that his opinions changed (mainly in regards to zabriel) - I've often found that scum will find a target and then not budge off them unless they have a good reason to do so.

Haven't had time to review Cybertronix and Melmond but I see Cyber's wagon is smaller so

Vote: Cybertronix

I must have glazed over this before. You're going to need to explain this.

@ThAd- his first 4 posts outside of RVS are nothing. And his quick jump to Cyber wagon near the end of his ISO.

You're going to have to explain this. I mean I'm not trying to blow my horn or anything but I can't see how you can look at my posts 2-5 and think they are "nothing".

Also: answer my question inn 774.

meh. Memond has a few scummy posts. He'd be a better lynch that Cyber. You have town reads on both AP and Snifit right?

Point them out pls.

Why do you want me to do your work for you?

What the fuck is this shit?
No I don't want you to do my work for me, I want you to explain which ones of melmond's posts are, as you say, "scummy". That's not my work.

[ThAdmiral]

@ThAd- 779 was my answer to 774. I was responding to you about Melmond, not talking about you.

Ah, that makes more a lot more sense.
I can see what you are saying but outside of the start of his iso (the "nothing" posts) and the end of his iso (the jump on cyber, which is debatably scummy based on what alignment cyber actually is) I think there is a fair bit of quality posting in there.

That's a pretty weak town read, if you don't mind my saying so.

I'll be honest I am tearing up a bit, but I think I'll make it.

[ThAdmiral]

if cyber lynch is a no go (and I suspect because of the replace-out it will be), I'd prefer to lynch ap over melmond.

[ThAdmiral]

1) If you use perfect logic and reasoning as scum, don't you think at some point, it will lead you to your buddies? You can't play perfectly pro-town as scum because you aere playing against your win condition.

I'm sorry but this is just wrong.

Zoro is still scum.

Now this is something I can get behind.

@Admiral. What are your scum reads? I assume that Melmond and I are not based on the wording of your last post.

Melmond no, you could go either way; didn't like your predecessor, I think you are ok but not enough to give me a townread on you. Probably null-leaning scum.
Other then that I would be happy to lynch cyber (obv), zora and probably peregrine. Kise and snift are also there or thereabouts.

I feel like I'm going mad or something. Am I literally the only one that thinks melmond is probably town?

[ThAdmiral]

Thad - can you explain your ap read? I'm sorry if you actually do somewhere, it's late. I have no good read on him, and fully admit is playstyle sits in my blind spot.

Pros: going after people like nero - I think it less likely scum would want to put offside people that the playerbase generally thinks are town (however I think he has changed his read on nero to town now)
Didn't jump straight on the zabe wagon when it was in vogue
Has been active, and has let his opinions been known clearly
thinks I'm town
Cons: replaced fairly scummy iai slot
Other than zabe he has been fairly happy to jump on whatever bandwagon is popular (tbf to him these wagons have been consistent with his reads)

I think I've just convinced myself to change my read to null-leaning town on ap.

[ThAdmiral]

snift lynch works for me

vote: snift

[ThAdmiral]

Thanks for the enormous effort.

What else needs to be said?

[ThAdmiral]

What else needs to be said?

I don't know. How about... why? Obviously I have meta reasons for all of a sudden finding your turd play suspicious, but we can't get into that.

Snift is one of the people in my "probably scum" pile. The whole backtracking malarkey smells of scum as well. Hence; vote.

[ThAdmiral]

Also, add ThAd to the list of "needs-a-look".

Was already there.

[ThAdmiral]

I would entertain a ThAd case if it weren't for the fact he is Lurky McLurkerson and has so little content. That is *my* entire case on ThAd.

I'll have you know,

sir

, that I am the 8th most active player in this game.

[ThAdmiral]

This game is hard to follow for me.
Every time I've had a scumread on someone they've replaced out - iai became ap who I now think is town, cyber became mastin who I'm unsure about.
I've got town reads on a bunch of people but other than that I've got no real leads on who I think could be scum. There are people like snift who I wouldn't mind lynching, and zora (who's not posting), and maybe kise at a stretch (he's giving my gut scum feels).

Pere is an interesting one to me though. His recent post about thinking melmond and I were masons is interesting as it indicates he was looking for that sort of thing (i.e. town roles). He doesn't assume I was a scum partner protecting a buddy, or even a scum trying to gain town cred buddying town. I think I would expect more paranoia-infused suspicion from a normal townsperson. I had a look at his play yesterday and he gives a halfhearted attempt to get people off the wagon saying "Melmond not a good lynch. Please to vote rapidcanyon right now" (844), but never really pushes the alternative. And then just before the hammer he states "Melmond is town. I'll not vote him, and suspect everyone on his wagon", which is really far too little far too late as melmond was then hammered within three posts of that.
Considering that he had melmond as a likely scumread earlier in the day it really looks to me like scum trying to get points for defending town, without actually trying to derail the lynch in any real way.

vote: pere

[ThAdmiral]

In all MY games with you, I've never seen you defend a town read that blatantly. And I've seen you bus and buddy before as scum. So, there's no way I think you are trying to gain town cred by calling Melmond town without having a stronger reason than "look at his posts".

You should have seen me in saw mafia. I literally had to fight against the entire town to stop the lynch of someone else who had claimed a suspicious role (but one I didn't think was scum), and when that failed I used a governor style ability on him (and I was right!).

not to blow my own horn or anything...


(here's a link)

[ThAdmiral]

Decided to do an iso of tammy because, you know, why not.

Turns out...
She is actually scum!

Have a look at these:

Melmond I'm voting you because I have a scum read on you. There's a lack of something to hold onto in your posts.Your case on BC was bad, in that it felt forced. I believe that you believe it but I got a sense of a possible bus/distance going on between you, and you are a stronger scum read for me than he is. Later I didn't like you asking why we were voting you, this could be personality but meh. There were never more than four votes on you and no more we're piling on so it read as you being too overly concerned about how you were being viewed. I also don't like your wagon hop onto cyber. If you have a strong scum read, why aren't you trying to push it? Also, why are you voting cyber? You didn't give a reason other than him being the best wagon that's going on right now. Why is he the best? Your jump onto cyber feels a bit survivalistic, which also reads weird to me because you only had three votes and no one else was saying they would jump on.

This is her case on melmond.
"I believe that you believe it"? Then how can he be scum?
Asking why people were voting him? Maybe this was because no one (especially tammy herself) gave reasons.
The stuff about "survivalistic" is crappy as well.

Thad - can you explain your ap read? I'm sorry if you actually do somewhere, it's late. I have no good read on him, and fully admit is playstyle sits in my blind spot.

This is going to become something of a trend - basically "faking a read on someone is hard - I'll just get someone else to do it or say the person is 'weird'".
Also, as was brought up by someone else (kk or ben), she constantly is making excuses for herself to allow for the fact that, you know, her reads are weak or she just lynched town.

This is because you think my halo isn't shining as brightly as you think it should? I don't know why some games people get an insta-town read on me and the next think I'm not the beacon I should be, but if you look at my actions this game, every single one of them have been town-motivated. I can't believe you can't see that.

Who, other than scum, claims that "every single one (of my actions) have been town-motivated"? And begs the question: "I can't believe you can't see that"?
This is like a minor scumclaim. Can't believe I missed this earlier.

And no, btw, I'm not claiming who messaged me right now. I'll leave that up to discussion for what's the best course of action. It will be outing one person's role and will be narrowing the pool for everyone else. I made sure it was there for confirmation purposes. And, I'm not outing the message either. If the sender wants to say what they sent to me that's their prerogative. It was no big secret and nothing great and game changing so there's no need whatsoever; it was just one person's thoughts about the game I'm not going to violate that. Also, I'm fairly certain the sender of the message is on your town list and is someone I very strongly believe to be town as well; that's pretty much all I'm going to say about that.

This reads to me as: "look at how protown I'm being - I'm leaving everything up for the discussion of the town like a good townsperson would!".
But then also rounds down who the person could be by saying that they're on benmage's and her townlists. You know, just for lulz, and with the implication that if we keep asking about it it would be "scummy" as we might be "outing a town!".

Also, Mastin's probably town. I had a town read on Cyber anyway and the Mastin read is just stronger. I don't have a whole lot of experience with Mastin, but when we played in GvE together and he thought I was a member of the opposing scum team, he didn't come after me like this. The most of what he said was that I was terribad, but wouldn't really elaborate. The way he went after snifit so strongly reminds me nothing of how he behaved as mafia. And no, meta's not everything, but his tone is completely different. I'm not sure about when he jumped off his suspicions, my minds a bit hazy right now, so I'll need to look at that again...hopefully tomorrow.

I also need to look at snifit closer, his most recent post read really genuine, and some of what I had assumed about him was based on Melmond flipping guilty, which he didn't, so re-evaluations are in order. Hopefully I'll feel better tomorrow and can make sense of some things then.

"My mind is a bit hazy now" = another excuse.
And the whole "I need to re-evaluate things because I was sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo sure melmond would be scum" is forced to me.
(also a bonus excuse is tacked on at the end, just in case one per post wasn't enough.

I still have stuff to go through in this game. I'm only feeling a little better and have real life work to catch up with before mafia so that will probably be tomorrow.

But real quick - Ill read and think about your mastin stuff later. My head is so foggy I had to read it three times to understand what you were saying.

Ben - my aco read is weird. I can't read players that play like him as he seems like he's half trolling half real playing. I think the pro claim makes him lean town, but the static ness of his reads leans scum. Like his read on you is weird as I think you're pretty strongly town, just infuriating, and his "until someone tells me youre bad at mafia, I'm keeping you as scum" reads really weird. As it is, he's the type of player I'd not be able to find a reason not to vote for if not for the pgo thing.

"Oh noes - mah head is foggy!". Yup - another excuse.
And also remember how I mentioned earlier how if she finds it too hard to fake a read she will just copy someone else or say they are "weird" which doesn't mean anything? Yeah, she does that here with aco.

I cannot wait to find out why it is that Benmage knows what he thinks he knows. If he investigated me he'd know I wasn't scum.

I don't have any partners Benny-Boy, so gathering up people's reads on me or interactions with me or my reads on others are going to get you nowhere but send town on an awful wrong path.

Does this sound like scared scum to anyone else?
(I know you're all over this jason - unless you were joking - in which case you're totally partners with her!)

vote: tammy

[ThAdmiral]

@ThAdmiral - So is the messenger town/third party? Because claiming "I got a message" isn't a viable long term strategy for scum.

Messenger is probably town - tammy got a message and is revealing it without naming the source because this is the most "town" thing to do, and if she doesn't the messenger may have thought something was off.
That's my theory.