Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Legacy (Game Over)

[rapidcanyon]

VOTE: Rapidcanyon

Thoughts?

[rapidcanyon]

Just got caught up. I missed quite a bit.

I buy Acosmist's claim. Usually, when someone claims out of the blue early in the game, they are usually town trying to alert someone of a unique nature of their role (PGO/miller) etc. So, that's one person I am happy to have call town.

JasonT's vote on Acosmist seemed like a genuine mistake and reads null to me. I am not one to go on about "townslips" based on whether someone didn't read the setup. People could just as well be faking townslips and in any case, I don't think failure to read the theme or the setup should be rewarded with a townread. I for instance, always make sure to read the setup regardless of affiliation.

@ Bloodcovenant's 22, I don't think every unconfirmed player needs to be killed and there is no danger in "leaving alive" unconfirmed players. We'll have to see how Acosmist plays and whether he plays pro-town, and watch him behavior just like we do every other player in the game. If he is scummy, we lynch him. I see no reason why an early unconfirmable claim needs to be lynched within the first three days just because.

Odd as it may sound, Nero Cain's reaction to my self-vote actually came off as townish. I can see scum motivation behind making me look suspicious (achieve a mislynch) but I just don't see why scum would call it "stupid" - potentially irritating a townie but not follow up and try to lynch said townie.

Kublai Khan's 30 came off as scummy. My self-vote was RVS vote, no reason to treat it as anything but, just because I chose myself to RVS vote.

You're not funny or original. Plus you're more likely to be scum since you're consciously trying to limit information that others can learn about you. So congrats.

I don't see any information "limiting" coming from a self-vote. This FOS seems completely fabricated. Checking back to see Kublai Khan's posts, he was way too quick to say that Jason towntelled for a very poor reason (not reading the setup). He also doesn't vote me. Why the weak FOS and no vote? It almost seems as if he is hoping someone would pick up that FOS.

Shahrizai, what about my self-vote "bugs" you and what does it have to do with Salamence's miller claim?

Now that you mention it, the miller claim does seem similar to Acosmist's early claim. I still buy Acosmist's claim though. Sal's claim in Disney Villains was the exception rather than the rule.

I agree with Shahrizai's 34though, blood covenant seems scummy for pushing Acosmist PL. But what I am really wondering is:

Shahrizai, why you you against Acosmist PL? You reference Sal's antics in Disney Villains game yet you are agaisnt a PL. I am against it too, but I don't think based on your post, that you would be agaisnt it. Something seems off there.

VOTE: BloodCovenent

His suggestion of a PL on Acosmist reads as a) a way to avoid/redirect the discussion about Jason/Zabriel and b) an attempt to get someone out of the way who can't be NK without a scum sacrifice. Jason's vote doesn't seem as calculated as BC's suggestion.

RC attempting a self-vote reaction test also bugs me; in our last game together, Disney Villains, he was scum with Salamance, and they had Sala claim Miller on D1 which helped them win the game so I don't think he's above trying to pull something crazy here, too.

The first paragraph seems odd coming from Shah's experience which she decided to put in the second paragraph.

Post 51 - 54, interaction with KK and others makes me lean KK-scum even more.

PergrinV's 86, after a quick vote on KK, he unvotes and votes for... self-voting? Quite odd.

Benmage calls my self-vote a "towntell," no idea why. Tammy calls it "bad." Again, a really weak push. Ideally, if someone else self-voted, I'd just ignore it. Some of the comments calling me town and scum are mostly making an issue out of a non-issue.

I just saw, Benmage's 144 sums it up perfectly.

Overall, I am going to go ahead and vote Shahrizai.

VOTE: Shahrizai

[rapidcanyon]

@rapidcanyon - your self-vote wasn't bad in and of itself. I know one person who self votes in every game. What was bad about your self-vote was the "thoughts" you added to it. It read off, like you were trying to be clever and try to generate discussion about your self vote which reads off with you now suggesting that if someone self voted you'd ignore it. However, you added "thoughts" to the self vote which means you clearly didn't want it ignored.

I wasn't "trying to be clever" but even if you percieved it as such, how do you go from "trying to be clever" to "superbad?"

Also you didn't know that I would have ignored it until I said so.

[rapidcanyon]

@ Kublai Khan, you reason for believing I am town is odd, to say the least. It seems like something scum would come up with to have a townread. Calling a post "too bad to be scum" is rarely something that town would do? If my posts seem scummy, why are you certain that I am town? Why no worry about possible scum when you see scummy posts? I doubt but anyone but scum would be so confident that a player is town because they find that player's posts bad, not good.

You say you never FOSsed me but you did - and it was a hilariously weak one at that. "

Plus you're more likely to be scum since you're consciously trying to limit information that others can learn about you.

"

I read 29. I just don't buy it. Jason may well be town but your reasoning for thinking that is weak. If he were scum, he could have pretended to not have read the setup hoping someone like you would say that he is town. Or you could be be scum and could have planned it. There are plenty of possibilities.

On the whole, you seem focussed on very poor reasoning to get town reads as opposed to using a player's behavior in game to do so. And the "you are a newbie" line seems pretty pointless as well and to me looks like a way to difuse the situation by discrediting my read but also not directly calling me scum/OMGUSsing.

Unvote

VOTE: Kublai Khan

[rapidcanyon]

Responding to prod. Catching up now.

[rapidcanyon]

Catching up from I left off. I am writing as I read through. I like the Admiral's post 193, it is logical and makes sense overall.

Regarding Yates and Jason, I didn't get Yates's FOS on Jason. Unless I am mistaken, it seems to me that Jason was saying that game flavor doesn't match actual book/film flavor. It is a completely null statement.

Nero's pressure on Zab seems town-motivated overall, and I do think that scum are more reactive than pro-active and Zab has thrown a FOS on the people who FOSsed Acosmist. I can buy that he didn't check the votecount and was referring to players that were calling for Acosmist to be lynched. What I don't get is the lack of specific names for his FOSses. He then votes Ben not for the Acosmist FOS but for an entirely different reason. 203 is really vague. Whatever happened to the people he was "not a fan of" that he believed were on the Acosmist "wagon?"

After AV's kill, his ISO was helpful. He made all of 5 votes and FOSsed Jason and Yates. I am thinking the probability is higher that he was picking townies to FOS as opposed to distancing from his buddies so just by that, I am leaning town on Jason and Yates.

I am not entirely sure that it was a dayvig that killed AV as opposed to a daytime serial killer. AV made 4 posts and none of them seemed really scummy to me when read while ignoring the fact that we already know his alignment. So, why would a dayvig feel the need to shoot so quickly and on someone who barely had any posts?

Tammy's 255, those were the thoughts I was thinking as well although her conclusions are either murky or I didn't understand them. While I do find it odd that Zab was calling his biggest pusher town, I did the exact same thing in a recent game where I was town (although my read fluctuated a little). I do agree that scum can call their pusher town as well so I consider it null at best. What I don't like about Tammy's post though is that it isn't clear what she was saying from the post, i.e. Is Zab town for having a townread on his accuser or is he scum for doing so?

Now, of he's an alt as Nero suggests then these aren't very large town tells, but

I would imagine he would be a little more worried about the wagon on him, not be calling his biggest pusher town, and maybe be pushing a wagon more likely to go through than benmage.

I need to think bout this one.

Would he be doing the bolded things if he was scum or if he was town? I don't quite get what you are trying to say.

Now on page 12, while I agree that the Zab wagon formed a bit too easily, it doesn't necessarily indicate that Zab isn't scum. Also, saying that he is town because the wagon was too easy equates to saying that scum don't bus. I think it is a possibility that scum voted him. If there are multiple scum factions as has been theorized, the scum faction Zab is not in may be voting him.

IAI's 280. He said a lot of things about Zab that I agreed with yet the motivation to zone in on just Zab and ignore the others says scum with an easy target. Looking at it that way, he could easily be over-justifying the vote on Zab. Motivation is more important than just content.

Kise's 311 comes off as a very strong town post to me explaining his position and giving opinions on KK, Snifit, and IAI.

Overall, I am going to go with IAI.

VOTE: I am Innocent

[rapidcanyon]

I am sorry, I must have missed it. Can you repeat it?

[rapidcanyon]

Never mind, found it.

I quickly skimmed through the first page. I didn't read in detail. I planned to come back later. I voted myself partly to see how people would react, partly just for the heck of it.

A more important question is why is an RVS vote important to you on page 15?

[rapidcanyon]

I am not entirely sure that it was a dayvig that killed AV as opposed to a daytime serial killer. AV made 4 posts and none of them seemed really scummy to me when read while ignoring the fact that we already know his alignment. So, why would a dayvig feel the need to shoot so quickly and on someone who barely had any posts?

Not for nothing but if I didn't see the daykill in my preview edit, AV's name would have been on my list too. He didn't do anything obvscum, but his contributions weren't informative or pro-town at all. I'ma say town dayvig because they could have killed off a townish player instead of AV and - barring a forensics type role - would not have been sniffed out.

unvote
vote: i am guilty

kekekeke

BUT, not if they want to fake-claim DayVig.

Still catching up.

[rapidcanyon]

Catching up from I left off. I am writing as I read through. I like the Admiral's post 193, it is logical and makes sense overall.

Um, post 193 was authored by Jason...

My mistake, it was 173.

AngryP's 408. Yeah, Angry is a

lot

better than this as town from the games I've played with him. I am not sure if his substandard play indicates scum though.

@ AP, can you give me a couple of links to your scum games?

Also, his aggression seems misplaced. He seems to be jumping onto anything and everything to make people look scummy. NeroCain, Zab, BC, me, Acosmist, that's a lot of scum reads. He also seems to be jumping to conclusions - something I know he doesn't do as town but instead carefully analyzes every possibility.

He also generally controls the game and keeps everyone on track acting as a town leader. But this game, NeroCain seems to be doing it and AP is just being aggressive with no direction.

Vote is staying on AP. IAI's poor play doesn't help his case either. I voted for IAI but just to make sure.

Kise, don't try to make sense of what AP is typing. He'll have called everyone in the game scum by the end of D2 at the latest.

So, you are saying AP is bad as town? This is untrue from my experience.

Is AP usually this terrible?

No, he is scum. I am confident about this.

Look at Possesed Pastors in a Paranoid Parish Mafia where he was town. He caught scum day 1 and later led the town to victory. Also, he played just as well in an ongoing game where he was night killed and town.

VOTE: AngryPidgeon

[rapidcanyon]

Catching up from I left off. I am writing as I read through. I like the Admiral's post 193, it is logical and makes sense overall.

Um, post 193 was authored by Jason...

My mistake, it was 173.

AngryP's 408. Yeah, Angry is a

lot

better than this as town from the games I've played with him. I am not sure if his substandard play indicates scum though.

@ AP, can you give me a couple of links to your scum games?

Also, his aggression seems misplaced. He seems to be jumping onto anything and everything to make people look scummy. NeroCain, Zab, BC, me, Acosmist, that's a lot of scum reads. He also seems to be jumping to conclusions - something I know he doesn't do as town but instead carefully analyzes every possibility.

He also generally controls the game and keeps everyone on track acting as a town leader. But this game, NeroCain seems to be doing it and AP is just being aggressive with no direction.

Vote is staying on AP. IAI's poor play doesn't help his case either. I voted for IAI but just to make sure.

Kise, don't try to make sense of what AP is typing. He'll have called everyone in the game scum by the end of D2 at the latest.

So, you are saying AP is bad as town? This is untrue from my experience.

Is AP usually this terrible?

[/quote]

No, he is scum. I am confident about this.

Look at Possesed Pastors in a Paranoid Parish Mafia where he was town. He caught scum day 1 and later led the town to victory. Also, he played just as well in an ongoing game where he was night killed and town.

VOTE: AngryPidgeon

[rapidcanyon]

Sorry, forget the ongoing game then. Look at DarthYoshi's Possesed Pastors mafia. AP zoned in on scum-Tierce on day 1. Nobody else was able to figure it out, but AP later led the town on a game winning lynch.

[rapidcanyon]

Responding to prod. I'll post more later.

[rapidcanyon]

The FOS is understandable. I was posting in two other games but not here. However, I am also mostly prod-dodging in two other games. I am not known to be inactive as scum. I post just as much. Every time I try to get into this game, there are 6-7 more pages that I have to read. 21 people posting voraciously is not helping me catch up.

Anyways, I'll read the huge walls at some point but to emphasize key points:

I was mostly inactive at the beginning of Possessed Pastors mafia, and I was town. Not saying that clears me. What I am saying is that AngryPidgeon played with me that game. So, I find it highly suspicious that Angry uses inactivity as a scumtell for me when he should know better because he KNOWS that I can be inactive as town if the game isn't compelling enough to capture my attention. I explained in that game how the state of the game matters - I hate Day 1 - not much to go on. But if I am alive at LYLO or even when there are 5-7 players remaining, I post copiously regardless of affiliation. I don't fault the others for FOSsing me because they probably don't know but Angry knows and yet is misconstruing my meta and deliberately and intentionally trying to make me look guilty.

I am almost certain AngryPidgeon is scum.

[rapidcanyon]

That is a loaded question. You present two reasons you think I suspect Angry neither of which are credible or accurate.

I suspect Angry because as I have outlined in 366, his predecessor's scummy actions, his substandard play compared to his town play as I point out later, and his misrepresentation of my meta. Again, "misrepresented meta" is not the same as "he's calling you scum" so here is my question: do you not understand what I am writing or are pretending to not understand so you can continue to justify your vote?

[rapidcanyon]

My number one target is actually PeregrinV mostly because he is pretending not to read any of my posts. I really don't feel like reading the whole thing now. I'll probably do it this Night and come back with some good analysis next day. Out of the wagons that are hapenning right now... I honestly didn't read a single post Melmod wrote - yeah, I am behind and need to catch up. But I'll ISO Melmond tonight and see if I need to switch my vote from Angry to him.

[rapidcanyon]

What questions Angry? Link them. I'll go through them now. As for reading the thread, if this game convinced me of one thing, it is never to sign up for a 20 player game again. But I did, and I'll read it this night phase.

[rapidcanyon]

1) If you use perfect logic and reasoning as scum, don't you think at some point, it will lead you to your buddies? You can't play perfectly pro-town as scum because you aere playing against your win condition.

2) Since you put it that way, I guess you are right. You could possibly be right, I have no idea. Your scum-reads were on people like Nero who I had town-reads on. But then again, it was the same thing in P4, so I guess we don't see eye to eye often making me think you are scummy but in fact, you could be town.

UNVOTE:

3) According to Shah, I "popped in," self-voted and ignored "things that were hapenning" - which was the Acosmist PGO claim. I wasn't really paying attention to the game at that point. I was busy with real life and what time I had on MS, I was already invested in a couple of other games so spent time posting there. I planned to come back later to see if anyone reacted to my self-vote scummily. I did offer thought on every thing that hapenned including parts that I didn't bother to do the first time (Acosmist claim). As to why I self-voted, I wanted to bait scum to see if anyone does something scummy. Ignoring it would have been a null/town read to me. Calling me "stupid" without attempting to paint me as scummy or push a lynch, I saw as a towntell. Actively defending me, I saw as leaning scum. The rest of Shah's post is basically saying how I am not acting the way I did as scum in Disney.

[rapidcanyon]

Okay, see this from my perspective: If someone else self-voted, I'd just move on to more pressing matters. I might spare a wisecrack at them but beyond that, I really wouldn't care. If I were scum on the other hand, I might think "hey!! easy mislynch target, let's get him." or "hmm, maybe I can defend this player to get towncred while my buddies push his lynch and he flips inno."

My townread on NeroCain is solid because it is based on something that is very difficult to do as scum: Lead the town. Nero was pushing for answers from Zab, then he found a scummier player (IAI), and switched to him. He has been actively trying to figure out people's affiliations. That is very difficult to do as scum. Sure, I could be wrong, but it is enough to get a solid townread Day1.

[rapidcanyon]

- Regarding Nero, even if he never voted IAI, point is, he is actively trying to figure out player's affiliation. Just because one player led the town as scum in one game doesn't mean it is easy nor does it mean I won't have town reads on players that do it.

- Next time, you are scum and self-vote, sure I'll ignore you - at first. But once you come back later, I would expect you to have a ton of content about the reactions to your self-vote as well as the rest of the game. Based on your further posts, I would make a determination of your affiliation. The self-vote itself is a null-tell.

[rapidcanyon]

I have read the game up until my last wall post.

[rapidcanyon]

Ok. Basically I'm trying to convince myself that you, as town, could assume that Nero is so obviously town that you could be "sure" that I am scum for pushing him at all.

Ask me how thats going.

IAI was scummy. I looked at your slot with the presumption that you were scum and you having diametrically opposing reads to me solidified that read.

Especially given that you have admitted to skimming and not reading.

I read through until my last wall post. Skimmed occasionally from time to time to make sure I don't miss anything too important.

I have read the game up until my last wall post.

So what has he lead the town to do?

The wagons he wants are the ones that are forming. Zab/IAI.

The point is that RC is making gross generalizations and is unable to point to how he got them.

Just did.

[rapidcanyon]

Kinda random, but why did you explicitly vote me even though you were already voting IaI?

Wasn't sure if the mod continues to keep the votes placed on the predecessor on the new player. Just wanted to be sure.

[rapidcanyon]

Also, until I review the case on Melmond, I am going to

VOTE: PeregrinV

Might change at deadline.

Lets policy lynch this fool.

I can't do it alone!

Seriously, if the AP wagon isn't happening I'm going to have to change my vote before losing power.

Come on over and vote

rapidcanyon

PeregrinV. He's scum.

[rapidcanyon]

RC... this is outstanding at you

So, you just did.... no thought process as to how, or whatever...Nothing you can give insight to?

you just did?

The wagons he wants are the ones that are forming. Zab/IAI.

[rapidcanyon]

This wagon is going to happen anyways.

UNVOTE: PeregrinV
VOTE: Melmond

This is L-1.

[rapidcanyon]

How the heck did AngryPidgeon survive so long?