Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Legacy (Game Over)

[Benmage]

Mastin you're going to be guilty tomorrow and hung for your derpness. Remember this.

[Benmage]

Mastin you really have degraded in ability since your return.

You were a better lurker/flaker.

Your reads blow. Your logic blows. Hows NC, the almighty scumhunter doing?

[Benmage]

Mastin you're going to be guilty tomorrow and hung for your derpness. Remember this.

No, I'm going to be dead, and you're going to have wasted your investigation.
And if we lynch Tammy, we'll be no closer to finding scum, with a useless cop whose result was wasted by targeting a guy who's quite frankly the most likely to die tonight. I predicted you'd be targeting me when I made that post about town being no closer to finding scum, just as I'm predicting me being dead, since guess what?

You're not hunting scum.

I am.

You NK'd!!!

You're mislynching on town. Allowing scum to DIRECT A SECOND SHOT. Pretending to leash an SK, when that is impossible. She more than likely can't be NK'd...moreover scum have no reason to NK her, when they can direct her shot. I sure has hell wouldn't fear a directed SK shot if I was scum.

You're also stagnating the game with an issue that will cause a total smokescreen for which scum will hide behind.

Tammy will be a recurring issue, today tomorrow, etc until she dies.

You will have confirmed town like myself, and other intelligent town members refusing to lynch off of Tammy. Therefore any "settled" lynch will be heavily influenced by scum. GJ ASS.

You can't possibly be Nk'd You are probably the furthest person to be NK'd. And oh yeah, you're likely scum now.

[Benmage]

ITS BEEN 20 pages of NOTHING since I claimed COP.

Jesus you're ruining the game people.

[Benmage]

ITS BEEN 20 pages of NOTHING since I claimed COP.

Jesus you're ruining the game people.

Header

[Benmage]

bide her time, and hope an opportunity opens up somehow.

We can't predict the future, why risk getting fucked later.

You have no retort for this.

At some point Tammy will not play ball.

That is my point. Get rid of Tammy now while we can afford it the most.

[Benmage]

This is ridiculous. I keep checking the game to see if we've lynched Tammy yet. The fuck are you people thinking?

1) Yes, Tammy will say whatever to survive. However she will also do whatever to survive. She's outed, but as SK all she has to do is survive. She will gladly kill and has no target preference. There is no logical reason why she won't play ball, bide her time, and hope an opportunity opens up somehow.

Why risk fucking up our position like that?

What position?

Scum need to eliminate the SK. We helped them by uncovering her. We don't need to lynch her for them too.

Scum can use the SK to further whittle town. To bring lylo from D8? to D5. After she misfired 2-3 more times... town will go oh fuck, and lynch her than (especially with losing 2X as many townies, giving scum a strong voice in game) giving scum that much more of an advantage.

Because if an SK isn't invimmune.

I GUARANTEE its NK immune (atleast for 1-2 BP)

[Benmage]

KK this is awesome! Lets keep talking about Tammy and the pros an cons of keeping here alive..

SWEEEET spam spam spammity spam. spam spam spam...

Awesome.

[Benmage]

@MASTIN what will get myself (conftown) an any other town on Tammy (which mathematically has to be others) BACK IN THE GAME TO SCUMHUNT and eliminate this SMOKESCREEN

LYNCHING TAMMY

Fuckinga so many pros to killing her. Its fucking absurd suggesting otherwise, and to maintain such a stubborn position.

[Benmage]

You're also stagnating the game with an issue that will cause a total smokescreen for which scum will hide behind. Tammy will be a recurring issue, today tomorrow, etc until she dies.

This is the reason I'm not moving my vote today. Today has degraded into a circlejerk of debating the risk/rewards of Tammy and the debate itself is anti-town. Lynch her and end it.

QFT,

KK should know better. As should mastin, but to a lesser degree.

[Benmage]

BTW - A good player who is a cop with a guilty result on Day 2 in a large game shouldn't fucking claim right away. You list her as top scum and shut your mouth and keep fucking investigating. Then if you were to die, we can ISO you and say "Oh! Benmage listed Tammy as super-scummy without reason. It must be because he investigated her". Your bullshit "Lynch her now! I've got a guilty! I'm a great player!" whinning is bush league and I've got very little respect or tolerance for your opinion.

Ehh I weighed the pros and cons.

Figured last nights doc could doc me.

Figured ROLEBLOCKER is already dead.

Figured I didn't want to mislynch, and had a guilty. Didn't expect to hit an SK.

[Benmage]

Your bullshit "Lynch her now! I've got a guilty! I'm a great player!" whinning is bush league and I've got very little respect or tolerance for your opinion.

How many people are saying to eliminate this smokescreen problem?

Your stubbornness is causing a cataclysmic problem to the game. The fact that you can't see how terrible is is for the STATE OF THE GAME to progress by not lynching her is astoundingly troubling.

We have over 20 pages of nothingness. And Nothing will change until she hangs. You will continue to stall game progression, for what??? NOT KILLING A NONTOWN memeber.... yeeeeeeeesh.

[Benmage]

Figured I didn't want to mislynch, and had a guilty. Didn't expect to hit an SK.

You understand the fundamentals that Mafia and Third Party are separate factions right? That one can't win if the other is still alive?

I understand your argument that the mafia will likely influence the SK kill-choice. But remember that we essentially get double-lynch days. Instead of Lynch/NK/Lynch/NK/etc, we get Lynch/Lynch/NK/Lynch/Lynch/NK/etc. That scenario is not in scum's benefit. Scum will push to lynch Tammy so they can target someone else.

P-Edit - @AngryPidgeon - Yes we can scum-hunt just fine. Consider the last fucking sentence above.

Ughhh I grow weary of this retort. But I'm not changing my vote.

I'm of the belief, when you can eliminate an entire killing entity, you take it.

WE can't predict the future. We don't know what else the game has in store. But eliminating a kill at this juncture, when we can afford it the MOST.... its the obv logical course. The bridge has to be crossed eventually... why risk kingmaker or some nonesense like that?

[Benmage]

The extra daykill really isn't needed. You guys need more confidence.

That may or may not be true. My question is simply; wouldn't you rather HAVE that extra day kill?

Assuming a 3 person scum team w/ an SK, look at it like this:
D2 - we kill Tammy [she flips whatever]
N2 - Scum kill Town
D3 - Hooray! Ben lived and got a guilty! [lynch scum]
N3 - Scum kills Town
Best case: down 2 Town, 1 scum, 1 unknown

vs.
D2 - we kill Acosmist [he flips whatever - and we deal with the PGO claim]
N2 - Scum kill NC Town
D3 - Hooray! Ben lived and got a guilty! [Tammy kills scum]
D3 - Hooray! Another Town role saw who killed NC [lynch scum]
N3 - Profit?
Best case: down 1 Town, 2 scum, 1 unknown, and take care of the Tammy "problem" Day 4

You forgot to mention in scenario 1 that there's 2 scum. The one I caught, and the one from the random TownPR that saw NC. So D4 we have a scum to kill, and no chance of a mislynch. If we keep lynching correctly we don't lose. Who cares how NK's work. We don't mislynch, we don't lose. We don't need misfires on town.

We have to deal with SK eventually. Now is the optimal time.

You also fail to state that second PR that caught NC or w/e is now also outted meaning said PR and I will likely both not survive following nights. Moreover it is simply much more likelier that I clear more townies, over catching scum... which can be equally as good.

[Benmage]

@PV:

bide her time, and hope an opportunity opens up somehow.

We can't predict the future, why risk getting fucked later.

You have no retort for this.

At some point Tammy will not play ball.

That is my point. Get rid of Tammy now while we can afford it the most.

[Benmage]

Wheras my argument is:

1. Tammy not lynched.
2. Tammy does what town wants.
3. Scum forced to try to NK her.
4. Win-win for town.

Errr.... scum not forced to NK her (in fact probably can't) moreover I sure as hell would not fear a directed SK day shot. Hell I'd manipulate the fuck out of it for mad town cred and pwn you town noobs.

[Benmage]

ITS BEEN 25 pages of NOTHING since I claimed COP.

FTF(me)

[Benmage]

@Ben- Why can't we afford it now? We're at pretty much the same spot as if we lynched scum yesterday. We all know she is going to die eventually, why are you against using her powers as an extra lynch?

Take everything I've been saying in its totality.

A. We don't know what tomorrow may bring.
B. This Tammy smokescreen issue with play out everyday she lives. We have 25 pages of it already. This games progression has been completely ruined because of this stagnation. What kills towns more than scum or anything else??

Apathy

... If we continue to be divide an apathetic town will ensue and we will lose. The SK has to die. One says today... One says later. But all agree she must die. End this division and yield for her to die already so that we may all return to scumhunting and end this blackhole-gamesucking-leech.
C. An argument over "optimal" lynch time will ensue anytime her lynch is suggested. (Refer back to A, we don't know what tomorrow brings)

[Benmage]

I wouldn't mind taking things one lynch at a time but the way the day phases are being dragged out.... if I wasn't patient, I'd be on full lurk mode.

More on this.

If we continue this ramble we will have town members going lurk mode. Than we will have scum hiding in the smokescreen, because they can stick to one side, and lurkkkkk. We won't be able to tell the difference. The game will implode if we don't handle this.

Optimal time is now.

[Benmage]

@KISE

Hey dude didn't one of your enix games have essentially scum factions with daykills?

@All I mean.. this is a theme'd game. We have no idea of the setup. There's clearly MGS n HP.... We have a guilty. There could very likely be a daykill faction. We simply don't know. Not killing a guilty, is suboptimal. Period.

[Benmage]

tl;dr, Lynching Tammy is a strategical error based off of faulty reasoning.

No. Because town is minority in the dark. Killing her gives the most info.

[Benmage]

err majority in dark.

[Benmage]

Into Africa
Another game with a scumfaction day killing ability^.

[Benmage]

Uh huh...cool story. For anyone spreading the mutifaction BS and that I'm part of some team. Take a deep breath and ask yourselves why benmage is still alive? Think about it.

You're part of 2 man scumteam. Your partner is inv-immune. You're NK-immune. The best bet for your team is for you to live as long as possible.

We cool?

We have no idea what the setup is. You are not town. Period.

[Benmage]

Why is Acos a strong lynch candidate again?

Tell me the case on him?

[Benmage]

he's not showing town motive, etc.

Subjective.

Where was the PL the PGO d1?

[Benmage]

If anything acos has been way more town today than his uselessness yesterday.

[Benmage]

All evidence points to a single-faction game.
Multi-faction talk, just like Tammy-is-BP, is nothing but fearmongry.

Simply untrue, especially on the basis that the theme is split.

***But why can't Tammy be part of a strong small scumteam that daykills? Its been done before.

We have a guilty. We don't know the setup. You lynch it. You won't convince me, nor get a majority to lynch off her. That is the biggest realization you need. Otherwise this blackhole continues.

[Benmage]

Aco's play has been, in a word, safe.
He's never strongly pushed for something, he's playing reactionarily rather than taking actions, he's consistently on the defensive and showing concern for his own life, he's done very little actual scumhunting, his reads have been highly sheepish, so overall, he's an active lurker, who isn't at all using his PGO claim to push strongly against his suspects. (Speaking of which, he has close to none.) He's done plenty of buddying and lots of parroting others, not contributing his own voice to the discussion.
Interactions with other players I suspect are just the icing on top of the cake.

Add in all the points about his claim, and how they're much the same as the points for Tammy (only more optimized), and he's a VERY strong lynch candidate.

Except we have a guilty on Tammy. So there's no guess work there.

He's a miller claim. All your points against him could easily be considered town. Moreover..... if he was scum, I doubt he would've taken such a pathetic approach to the game D1, no? Thats asking for trouble. Seems the opposite of logical scum play.

I think your reaching here just so you can have Tammy live.

[Benmage]

Benmage - I think you no that's not the case and you're pushing this possibility for the same reason you outed your role the other day - you were getting pissed that you weren't getting your way and people were arguing something different than what you were saying.

Its a multi-theme'd game we have no idea what the setup is. Thats a strong point whether you wish to dismiss it or not.

You are guilty. You need to die. Even worse. Discussion has become a blackhole, if you were town, shit you'd be asking for your own head by now. I have done it before, if its the best course for town.

I'm going to the gym. This game is getting pathetic. Here comes the apathy. GJ Mastin.

[Benmage]

KiSe

EniX had daykilling nontown factions aye?

Its themed... we don't know. We do know we have a guilty.

Shits so simple I am just in awe that she aint dead yet.

[Benmage]

@KISE

Hey dude didn't one of your enix games have essentially scum factions with daykills?

Yes, in two of my games in fact. One had daykilling mafia, the other had daykilling 3rd parties. In fact pappums was a player and I believe Faraday reviewed it.

Point made.

Lets also go back to a game Tammy referenced. Faraday's ASOS.

In that game we all believed Zedenek Was the SK..... so we delayed killing him to hunt for scum. But he turned out to be part of a 2 man scum team.

No reason not to kill Tammy. Yeeeeeeesh.

[Benmage]

I didn't reference asos. Where are you getting that? I don't even know anything about that game.

Mafia is down one member because of me.

And I'm not spreading my arms open wide.

I can prove it.

This spread arms open wide... seems to be the ongoing joke from ASOS the game I'm talking about. Where hsdgas(cow) dayvigged(as scum), and pretended to have a PR... his goto PR was *spread arms wide* (I think his icon now).

You sure you aint referencing it?

[Benmage]

I don't doubt I'm dying today. Half of you won't listen to the positives of leaving me alive to let the mafia take me out through night kill. I've still been scumhunting today, and don't discount hose just agreeing with you today. I bet you there's at least one scum hoping to get on your good side by agreeing/parroting.

As Im sure there's one in agreeance with Mastin/is Mastin.

[Benmage]

I'd say backtracking scum to help push your lynch.

But the guilty trumps that... so cheah.

[Benmage]

L-2

Lets go already!

-----------[]

[Benmage]

@MOI

what fakeclaim are you referring to?

How stupid would it be to fakeclaim cop d2 in a large theme?? How easy a CC there could be. Outting the real cop, likely getting myself lynched. Idiocy. I'm tactical. Tammy didn't shoot me because she'd be lynched afterward.

That fact that you haven't voted Tammy yet, makes me more wary of your slot.

[Benmage]

@KK bullet for me why you are voting Acosmist.

-You keep saying she points she shoots or she dies. Well eventually she won't obey. And when she doesn't it could be more detrimental to town than, than attempting to "leash" her.

[Benmage]

I can bold who I want to vig in thread or email it and it will happen.

Its super dumb that she can do both btw.

Still seriously believe its multiball and she did the bold thing today for credibility.

Her in thread bold was clearly a lie.

Shes not town. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Benmage]

@KK bullet for me why you are voting Acosmist.

* Failure to do any original scum-hunting
* Votes and suspects only people that express suspicion towards him
* Essentially he's been coasting on his claim. He's protected himself from any night-activity and responds to any pressure with aggressive OMGUS.
* If he didn't claim PGO (which, as it's pointed out, any early claim should be treated as a VT), would you think he was town?

1. Original.... So? SH doesn't have to be original. He's been a lot better today than he was yesterday.
2. Some of his accusers accusations have blown. Moreover town omgus-ing accusers is standard procedure. I don't put much worth in this as a scumtell.
3. There's a lot of players who point 1 and point 3 can apply to. Lack of scumhunting. Lack of contribution/lurking.
4. Yesterday, no. Today, yes.

-More over you talk about leashed SK's being thorns in scum games. Well PGO is probably the biggest bane imaginable to scum.
-The way he claimed is text book style for a townPGO to claim.
--Getting a little complacent or lackluster by (in his mind) an auto-town confirming role occurs often enough.

*I am uninterested in seeing him lynched today. Moreover I think his accusers are a combination of people simply against the Tammy lynch, and scum support....if you think scum want an SK dead, you bet your ass they'll throw easy support to see a PGO go.

As one of his biggest opponents yesterday, I am not for his hanging today.

The points you've presented are both meager, and can be said of many an individual.

[Benmage]

^Agreed on balance.

Eliminating a killing entity this early gives us more days of analyzing vote counts.

Its a lot harder to analyze who was for and who was against shots.

But analyzing lynches is viable.

Eliminating a shot is the right option. Compounded with everything else we said (more info revealed/no risk of her freefiring etc etc...)

**And oh yeah its going on 30 pages of fluff.... Kudos.

[Benmage]

-You keep saying she points she shoots or she dies. Well eventually she won't obey. And when she doesn't it could be more detrimental to town than, than attempting to "leash" her.

That's scum's problem. If town gets to double lynch, scum have to put a stop to that.

The advantage to town is too great

. You keep giving scum reasons not to kill her and I keep shaking my head in disbelief.

The continuation of this discussion is too detrimental.

How do you not see this?!?!?!?!??!?!

[Benmage]

1. I didn't shoot benmage because I have a town read on him. I'm not interested in shooting town. No, he would know I'm not mafia because I'm not mafia.

That result is incorrect.

If he thought it was incorrect, there'd be a bullet in my head period. (no I had a town read BS)

I've given potential reasoning why Tammy could be a part of a scumteam. I've given reasoning why it makes sense to kill her now as an SK. But we keep spinning and spinning and spinning.

-And yes KK

, this discussion is detrimental to the game. Because nothing new or relevant is coming from it. And everyone is getting apathetic. And as Yates pointed out about his position, and as AP said... ideas on what todo with the SK seem personal, and not alignment telling. Therefore these 30 pages have fucking blown. And as long as Tammy lives massive disruption will occur. I can't believe you are being so stubborn.

[Benmage]

@Tammy

Did you ever answer why one aspect of refusing to out the message was that it would identify the messenger, and probably get them nk'd... correct?
--Then later why did you say you don't know who the messenger was?

(This was probably covered, but I don't want to wade through this mess of a game to find it)

[Benmage]

If its an ambiguous message how would outting it get him killed?

[Benmage]

@Moi

yes of course this isn't fake yeesh. Logically/ tactically you should've been able to put this together, your stall is noted.
-You can add WMII to the gambit list, where as a JOAT I faked a track on Fate and got him lynched (as scum)

-I also consider Gorrads game a success. After hammering Nero I revealed it was fake. I was a factional cop. In a confirmed multiball game where the other sides cop faction had flipped. Nero was still having me as a #1-2 suspect, after my claim. Quite the endgame liability. Therefore, because Nero is a subpar player, I thought that a success.

[Benmage]

Also, someone check the math for me. Myk is concerned about being put at evens. Actually lynching me today keeps you at evens.

Hey, it does.

Cool. Lets have this whole discussion again tomorrow.

vote pidgey

I didn't forget about you!

WTF is wrong with you. MoI just put Tammy at L-1... and you unvote..... You're playing so anti-town I don't get it.

Moreover, Nero Cain is ambivalent to the Tammy lynch, and I'm sure we can squeeze a Hammer out of him.

So for great justice put your vote back!

[Benmage]

Its kinda weird that every power we have heard of apperantly targetted tammy today. (neighborhood, cop, messenger, and on the off chance she is vig a framer)

Framer, no or I'd be shot.
Neighbor, well NC isn't good.
Cop, hells ya.
Messanger,... I am convinced this is bullshit at this point. I'd direct you to Simpsons Mafia, where scum Ribwich said he had role-relevant info that suggested the children were scum.
--Total bullshit.

[Benmage]

Lie.

I never claimed to have relevant information for the setup. I only confirmed that someone sent me a message so that when they claimed it either at massclaim or at lynch it would be confirmed that they did.

I'd like for you to explain what benefit there is to me to make up recieving some message, and if it's made up why the hell aren't I making up some message?

Like seriously, logic. Please use it.

My point was ribwich said it for no reason. I only imagine to make him appear important to the game.

Likewise I am believing it more and more likely that you created the message thing, to make you appear more important to the game.

[Benmage]

You can't play an lylo/mylo endgame numbers game on D2, when we have so little information on what could affect that.

Even Day shot?

etc etc.

Yeesh

@MYKO

... Vote back to L-1 and we can finally end this wtf...

[Benmage]

Unvoting Tammy, that's that shit I dont' like

A pidgey wagon,

that's that shit I don't LIKE

Nice reference.

[Benmage]

Tl /Dr ... spam spam

WE HAVE 2? DAYS TO DEADLINE AND HAVENT AGREED ON 1 LYNCH.

HOW WILL WE EVER AGREE ON A DOUBLE LYNCH.

[Benmage]

Scum kise scum Aco. scum pidgey scum MoI...

Anyone else?

No scum opposed to Tammy apparently

[Benmage]

Tl /Dr ... spam spam

WE HAVE 2? DAYS TO DEADLINE AND HAVENT AGREED ON 1 LYNCH.

HOW WILL WE EVER AGREE ON A DOUBLE LYNCH.

Replace out. Let someone who doesn't make derp arguments, doesn't spam up the thread, and actually might contribute something to the game instead of incessantly whining. Then we can get more done. kthxbye.

Way to completely Dodge the point with a childish retort.

We haven't come to a lynch.... one lynch. And you want to use a double day? I just erased such plausibility. Bam. Get fucked.

[Benmage]

With Roughly 24 hours remaining TAMMY IS THE ONLY VIABLE LYNCH. Let's go people.

[Benmage]

I will no lynch before I vote anyone other than a guilty. Upon tomorrow when scumhuntig can return I will be all ears to the analyzing of those for and agaisnt Tammy.

But nothing else will be agreed upon before the deadline.

Vote Tammy. Any unvotes of Tammy at this point will be viewed as a declaraction of scum to achieve a no lynch.

[Benmage]

Easy scum play: Wagon and Lynch SK. No risk, no repercussions.
Hard scum play: Fight tooth and nail against a wagon of a threat to scum in order to maybe manipulate the day-kill.

Benmage, MagnaofIllusion, and you are arguing that scum would rather take the hard road and are naming scum suspects accordingly.

mykonian, mastin2, and myself are arguing that scum likely took the easy road, then tried to spam, bullshit, and bully along the Tammy lynch.

I'm not disputing that I'm sure scum took the easy road. And I will love to look deeper at the wagon. (tomorrow)
-That said. Mastins absurd position, that no scum took either the hard road or lets say a neutral position, is simply false. Moreover, the hard road becomes a relatively easy road after a few people made their positions to lynch Tammy as strongly as possible. Myself as example. SO taking a position against the "easy road"... (when they as scum, could forsee the easy road being the one that will inevitably go through) They can take said "hard stance" while still foreshadowing the easy road being the one fulfilled. Therefore, I will again state that I am 100% certain that ALL the scum did not take the "easy road".

[Benmage]

mastin has been so bad this game....*sigh*

SpyreX's sig rings true, yet again

[Benmage]

MoI

breathe.. walk away. We wasted nearly 40 pages....but Tammy will hang.

Yates won't see a no lynch go through.

Elcousta any lynch over Tammy is comically bad. Almost as poor as mastins self death over tammy. I mean wtf is everyone smoke. Suicide self over a guilty. Fucking tards this game.

Even myk would probably vote back to Tammy. I'd say Nero Cain, but apparently prod dodging equates to playing these days.... Who knows.

@Pidgey

stfu up already.

[Benmage]

@Pidgey you're spamming the thread with one line nonsense. The PGO lynch isn't happening. If you we're paying attention the Tammy lynch is the only possible lynch, and enough people have capitulated to the idea that they will see this lynch through over a no lynch.

So the hysteria of OMG Tammy won't happen.... is simply mindblowingly dumb.

[Benmage]

Almost as poor as mastins self death over tammy. I mean wtf is everyone smoke. Suicide self over a guilty.

Yes.

I'd rather lynch myself than Tammy.

I agree in your specific case, and appreciate that you concur that you won't be an asset in future days.

Myself. I'd let any townPR die before me, if I were a townVT.

[Benmage]

Yessir....

[Benmage]

Well played scum. Totally deserving. Egocentric town was pathetic by the end.

If you weren't going to lynch Acos for policy D1/D2... doign so in lylo is one of the most pathetic things ever. Oh and Jason blows.

[Benmage]

Egocentric town was pathetic by the end.

You do know I had the scum team pegged right?

Your reads were good by endgame.

But not getting people in line is the most important aspect of the game.

That was poor wording, I meant more ego-midgame. Hence the no lynch. Endgame shit stemmed from Jason, and the lynching of Acos in lylo.

[Benmage]

And pappums, thanks for the game.

I think it was balanced quite well. I hate cops, but scum had a lot of counters to it, so well done.

Q: Would giving the scumteam daytalk be too much?

[Benmage]

Wasn't it known that nero got doc'd tho, or am I confusing the game and the dead thread...