A Dance with Dragons Mafia: A New Dawn!

[AurorusVox]

Yo timmy I just replaced in too homie.
Don't bother reading tho early vt claim prior to seeing a wagon on you as your posts suggests = I'm swinging mah noose your way.

[AurorusVox]

My predecessor is voting you.
It'd better be a

Royal

Flush.

[AurorusVox]

That was me trolling btw, nothing will save you now.

[AurorusVox]

Cursory search of the thread shows scum have fakeclaims

Unvote: timeater
Vote: Feysal

[AurorusVox]

Why would you need to search the thread to come to that conclusion?

Because it wasn't in the sample PM.

[AurorusVox]

@Magua: someone said something about Staeg being helped out with a fakeclaim from the mod.

Ok, if Staeg is scum, even though there was lot of time to prepare a fake claim with the help of mod

@kortul - if Timeaster had a fakeclaim, he wouldn't have fucked up his claim like he did.

@whoever complained that I voted Feysal since he was the biggest wagon, let me make it clear for you. I voted him because he is the biggest wagon.

[AurorusVox]

Thor, read the game or at least skim it and unvote Feysal, I don't want Timeater or anyone else to have a chance to blitz hammer ending the day.

Timeater is probably town.
I would be fine with a blitz hammer that ends the day.

Time is not the lynch today.
Feysal is a superior lynch to Time.

[AurorusVox]

Oops there was meant to be a QFT with that.

[AurorusVox]

Vote: Lyanna Stark

Your name won't save you.

Timeater's point re: why push Thor over Feysal given what you've said to him has nailed your coffin.
GJ timmy.

[AurorusVox]

The point that you lambasted him for leaving Feysal for Thor, when that's exactly what you did. You're sitting on a wagon that you believe has little chance of going through, compared to a wagon that you have left yourself. And let's not forget you also said that

Feysal has some really good points against him, and much of his play doesn't sit well, so it's the lynch I'll be joining again when I leave your wagon, unless someone makes a really good case.

which to me certainly sounds like you're supporting the wagon.

[AurorusVox]

should I hammer feysal???

Timeater shows readiness to lynch Feysal

Hey, Tim, stop sucking up to Thor whose wagon has very little chance of going though anyway, and read through feysal whose wagon does actually have a chance.

errdeerpah

My mistake. I thought you well telling him off for pushing thor. You're telling him off for buddying thor?
But that brings a whole new question. Why should he stop sucking up to thor if his wagon has little chance of going through? Do you mean, "stop defending him, he isn't likely to get lynched anyway"?
If so, why the heckles are you voting him (thor)?

[AurorusVox]

Ehh

Vote: Feysal

[AurorusVox]

Timmy wanna make

sweet sweet love

a voting alliance? We seem to be mostly on a level and I'm certain you're town, plus when I haven't read I can just sheep you. Coo'?

[AurorusVox]

keep those fat fingers typing furiously you need the workout

I can't sheep you if you're gonna be mean

[AurorusVox]

Wow Timmy you need to chill.

[AurorusVox]

Holding fast.

[AurorusVox]

Vote: Tyene Sand

That catch is too good to pass up.

[AurorusVox]

BB, join us on the glorious Tyene wagon~

[AurorusVox]

So who SHOULD I be voting? Give me a good reason to sheep you.

[AurorusVox]

And I will read over the RVS at some point. Doubt I'll get through all 100 pages though~

[AurorusVox]

Vote: Zdenek

Timmy where you at?

[AurorusVox]

I CONFESS
I have not read anything beyond where I replaced in.

[AurorusVox]

Prodded. I've not got the time or energy to read this right now...

Eh. I went to check the latest VC. I still like the Zdenek wagon, if he attacked a player who claims to have proven her townishness beyond a doubt, plus Thor's on it and Thor is obvTown (and why are people voting him?)

@BB, come join us.

[AurorusVox]

Jiminy Jesus H. Christ, I can't believe you nameclaimed in response to Feysal. What. The. Fuck.

Lol it's because Jeyne Poole is his fakeclaim and he's getting heat from the wagon that's building underneath him.
At least that confirms him as t'other scumteam to Feysal.

[AurorusVox]

Jeyne Poole is hardly anyone aligned.

Spoiler: Potential Spoiler

IIRC she gets sent off to wed Bolton's bastard and ends up running off/trying to run off (? can't remember too clearly on that) with Theon/Reek.

Lannister-aligned because she was given away by a Lannister to a Lannister supporter?

[AurorusVox]

Are you for real? Are you

actually

not scumhunting in multiball, lemon?

I am half reading the current content, so I guess I'm half scumhunting.

[AurorusVox]

And besides, this is my zen Tyreese.
If you can't handle the juice, get outta the lemonade bottle.

[AurorusVox]

Vote: Sapororerint

At page 3, that's the best read I have so far on someone who's still alive.

[AurorusVox]

????

I'm reading the RVS at the start of the game, I don't know out of all those people who's died and who's been replaced.

[AurorusVox]

Yes. Which I consulted when I got a read on a player from RVS.
If they're dead there's not much point saying what I think their alignment is, is there?
Hence, that's the best read I got on a player who's still alive.

[AurorusVox]

Actually I saw it here:

Dramatis personæ (Playerlist)

(28 players)

Salamence20

23) Sapororerint (Iecerint/Saporovirus)

But I realise now that's just the list of all the players.
I was looking at the spoilered Alive list at first but I must've looked at the wrong one that time.

[AurorusVox]

D:

[AurorusVox]

Vote: Regfan

What benefit do I get out of lying about this?

[AurorusVox]

Why aren't you voting me with both your votes if the

only reasonable explanation

is that I'm concocting some grand masterplan in which I pick a name at random from the list of players, and claim that I read them as scum from their posting on page 3?

What tangible benefit do I achieve by not just doing the same on the spoilered alive list?

Because according to the dead list, Sapo died before I even joined the game, so the ONLY place I could have gotten his name was Post #0. Why would I PURPOSEFULLY OPT to pick from the big old list, rather than the living list?

Explain how you're clear then, because all I see is a cheeky Feysal giving you his vote, and Tammy clearing you based on a name claim?

[AurorusVox]

And no, I'm not dumb, and I've never tried to look dumb.
Dumb players are not always town, so take that bullshit away.

[AurorusVox]

Um. You said Tyrene cleared you. I ISO control+F'd and saw her saying something to do with claiming Cersei clearing you because Faraday respects source flavour.

[AurorusVox]

I fake nothing.
"This is me, yo. Right here."

I done fucked up, I'll admit that, BUT I have never ever ever ever faked dumbtell as scum and I WOULD never try to use it because I AM NOT A DUMB PLAYER SO IT WOULDN'T JIVE AT ALL.

It's obviously a fucking mistake on my part.

NOT having read the game properly and wanting to get a decent vote out nice and lickityspick and seeing OBVSCUM in RVS and gleefully checking the list too quickly and derping all over the show.

RAGE

UNVOTE

[AurorusVox]

Can I also point out the living and dead lists don't have replacements on it, so I obviously HAD to check the big list first, and then for some reason failed to cross reference? MAYBE BECAUSE I WAS SO OVERJOYED AT FINDING SCUM AND THINKING I COULD BE FUCKING USEFUL IN THIS GAME?

[AurorusVox]

Here's a timeline.

I get reads on players (e.g. MoI) and I check to see if they're dead. So far so good.
I get a read on Shamrock, and find that he's not in the dead or alive list. Then I see he's replaced by Timeater.
I get a read on Salamence, I look to see if he's been replaced first - and fail to cross reference. I don't know why. I just did. I derp'd plain and simple. I'm not saying I thought he was still alive. I'm saying I derp'd and didn't cross reference properly in my excitement.

[AurorusVox]

MoI I figured would be dead by D2 anyway. It was just an example because his is a name I remember. But yes, I was checking that the said players were dead rather than just being replaced if I had an alignment tell on them. Obv if it had been e.g. Plums Yo Momma or Minimum I'd have recalled that they've been posting now and no problemo (which also answers, yes, I remembered Timmy as posting)

I don't remember posts from him but then again he could've been V/LA since I replaced in AND I don't remember every single one of the 14 players that are alive. I can list maybe six?

I am at my best when reading RVS. So it was more useful to read page 3 than page 103, for example.

[AurorusVox]

He calls someone out for knowing too much, but doesn't move off his RVS vote.

[AurorusVox]

You're using choose on scumreads?! It gives an extra kill? MoI self-chose. Are you telling me it belongs on scummy players?!

[AurorusVox]

Reg, do you really think I properly read 3 pages in 3 minutes?

[AurorusVox]

I posted within 3 minutes of my previous post.
I'm saying I was reading in a highly excitable and skimmering state.

[AurorusVox]

*sigh*

I think I might need some milk of the poppy for all the damage I've caused myself...
The bare-faced shame of it all

[AurorusVox]

Vote: Minimum

So in the cold light of day I think we can all agree that it's time to get off my wagon and do something else.

[AurorusVox]

Fuck it.
I am Grand Maester Pycelle, 1 Shot Rolestopper (basically make one player untargetable by any actions at night)

MoS used it N1.
Do I reveal who?

----

Reads are:
Timmy obvobvobvTown
Thor obvobvTown
TammyTown

BBscum
MinimumScum
ZdenekScum

[AurorusVox]

Oh and my ability is called Maesterful Interference.

[AurorusVox]

...sorry, I thought Tyrene was Tammy.

[AurorusVox]

Flavour alts

[AurorusVox]

Explain how you're clear then, because all I see is a cheeky Feysal giving you his vote, and Tammy clearing you based on a name claim?

Um. You said Tyrene cleared you. I ISO control+F'd and saw her saying something to do with claiming Cersei clearing you because Faraday respects source flavour.

Pretty clear I thought Tyrene was Tammy...

[AurorusVox]

MoS used it on Shadow1psc N1.

[AurorusVox]

@Tyrene, again, as I said earlier, I spent 3 minutes reading the first 3 pages. I did not register it on any level other than the RVS zen that helps me catch scum.

As for Minimum, I have no idea - ask Timmy.

[AurorusVox]

By which I mean, I am sheeping him.

[AurorusVox]

My action does not roleblock. It stops roles affecting the target.
Therefore, it protected from kills AND stopped any kind of roleblocks/redirects.

[AurorusVox]

Which is also why I think it's only 1-shot...

[AurorusVox]

...I'm

not

Aegon aligned, I'm Lannister aligned. Was that meant to be some kind of flavour trap?

[AurorusVox]

Tell you what.
Give me the weekend. I'll read as much of the thread as I can. If o fail to deliver or you still think I'm scum, Lynch me then.

It's not gonna be a dead detailed wall post but I'll at least give out some reads for you all to ignore once I'm dead.

[AurorusVox]

No 4nx, I mean, that's what I think justifies making it 1-shot.

Instead of posting my thoughts in a stream of consciousness I'm going to read and make notes and post all at once at the end, but I promise I will try to limit the size of it. If I scumread someone, I'll pick the biggest glaring thing, if I townread someone, I will justify it as succinctly as possible, etc. This a post to give me a full 48 hours to do that before I post again. If you have any other questions that need burning answers before then, please post them asap so that I can answer before going to bed tonight.

[AurorusVox]

Right, well. I think if Timmy was scum who just waded in and claimed, he wouldn't have fucked it up and softclaim something that someone else has already claimed, since he would have been provided with a fakeclaim. I don't see the reason scum would ditch a fakeclaim like that, especially not when you've just replaced in.

[AurorusVox]

Wait. Let me think this through. Did he softclaim the SAME as his predecessor? I thought he fucked his softclaim up somehow? If not, why did people let me claim he was town for something he didn't do? x_x

[AurorusVox]

So he DIDN'T fuck up his claim in any way?

Unvote

[AurorusVox]

Which he could have easily gained by reading his predecessor's ISO or scum QT, thereby nullifying anything that I've said at all.
Right well in that case, no I can't justify the townread. I was basing it mostly on that.

I'll reassess during the re-read.

[AurorusVox]

I mean, there are tiny gut twangs like the mini-competition with the Feysal wagon, but nothing to make me sheep him like I was anymore.

[AurorusVox]

Yeah, no claiming the SAME doesn't do shit. Fucking the claim up, well, that's different.

[AurorusVox]

Proddodge to say that I've had a lot of marking to do this weekend, and since I spent a lot of yesterday booking my honeymoon, my promised post won't be the full 135 page game. I historically get worse as the game goes on anyway, so my earlier reads will probably be more useful :\

I'm basically going to try to read on until I've got a read on all the living players and then post up my reads and reasons. I currently have up to page 4 in the past hour and a half, so I'm doing this a lot more thoroughly than my 3 minute catchup last time >_> I'll get up whatever I have before I go to bed, in any case.

If I were to give a sneak-preview, it would show that I'm not particularly fond of Starbuck's play in those pages. This means I don't really have a problem with his wagon going through, so long as it doesn't happen before I've shared my reread (I'm not reading all this just to get NK'd before I can post it >_>)

[AurorusVox]

Okay, so as a preface, I'm on p13 and I've not got to everyone yet. Some players haven't provided any significant posts at all beyond "I'm here, will catch up." I present here my reads that have been formed. I will get to the rest sooner rather than later.

Minimum (Mina/CES)

Places a vote on Starbuck on p1, engages with Choice mechanic, all good so far. Policy-choosing sounds good actually because you don't gain any additional info from the Chosen-kill like a normal vig, since the Chosen-killer flips anyway, and we could direct it for use by a townVI, AND this way the D1 wagon will give more info than a D1 PL. MinimunTown.

Don't like this vote onto Snowstorm after Reg's vote though :\ Classic CES play but the Starbuck vote was much better. Doesn't make them scum, but just not the shining bastion of town I had hoped.

Minimum is getting a lot of hate at this stage (apparently not enough according to MoI) but I don't really see why. I mean, yes, it is obvious why MoI would self-choose, and Minimum should get this, but I don't think that makes Minimum scum :\ He should be getting questions asked at him, but not actual votes when there are people a lot scummier – I suspect some of the MinimumVotes come from scum (surprise surprise, Salamence is there – will have to look into Hasgadfs more).

A good vote onto Salamence. Minimum regains the firm townread.

mockingjaye / 4nxi3ty

Nothing yet >_>

Tyene Sand

Tyene working to help Starbuck understand rather than jumping on him reads as them not being scum together; if they're scumbuds, I'd expect bussing (it's too explicit to be coaching), and if Starbuck was town, I imagine Tyene would be pushing him more. Either situation points to TyeneTown.

Considering the relative worth of votes vs chooses makes Tyene look town as well.

More town posting, especially given RedFF's scumflip.

Petyr Baelish / kortul

Nothing yet >_>

Hyperion / Shinori

Nothing yet >_>

Plum's Yo Mamma (Nacho/Plum)

I can't read PYM for shit.

Aha, a townpost at last. Trying to get some semblance of order in with the Choose/Vote mechanic is protown, and the reads there are bang on.

hasgadfs / ABR / Magua

I do like hasgadfs' posting style. Has me leaning town, but I know there's no real justification for it.

Realistic but I still have nothing other than gut to justify him being town >_>

Do I like this? Not sure. Why did MoI answer straight away rather than questioning why Cow was asking? :\

Regfan

Good townreads (except on Starbuck lol), and admittedly weak scumreads. I mean, he's been cleared now anyway but.

pappums / Amrun / Seraphim / Zdenek

Don't like that he unvotes when he has a spare Choose to give.

Need moar!

Pandora (Shadoweh/Quilford)

Something is bugging me about this back and forth with D.Edd; I read D.Edd as town anyway, I'm not really sure what Pandora is attacking him for. I mean, D.Edd's arguments in defence aren't very good, but neither are Pandora's reasons for attacking in the first place. It's partly related to having a scumread on Starbuck; calling out D.Edd's votes there doesn't sit well with me.

Hydra dissonance makes me feel better about Pandora though. If he was scum with Feysal, he could let the other hydra head dictate that they don't find Feysal scummy. Or even used that very hydra dissonance result in an unvote.

Starbuck / scumhunter / Timeater

Starbuck's first post screams scum to me. Surprised in what way? Doesn't commit to a firm stance that would entail a serious vote; instead opts for an RVS vote. Strong scum lean.

Feyasl votes rather than chooses Starbuck. I doubt scum want to Choose their buddies, so this could show Starbuck as a FeysalBuddy.

Early VT claim is a personal pet hate of mine.

I don't mind his confusion about the Choose mechanic because I first thought it belonged to Town. I don't think his confusion makes him town though, and the issue he got confused about isn't what made me read him as scum anyway so :\

QQ caught scum – this is a terrible post. “He's being mean” / “Other people are doing it” / “QQ”

UGH – scum play continued. Why bother posting at all? Worried, much?

Bbmolla

PsychicMode activated with Staeg; I get townvibes from BB's posts here. Most precisely, his “MoI I'm here “ post gives me unexplainable gut/tone town vibe. I have no idea what scumslip he's talking about but he seems to believe it.

Oh hurrdurr BB soTown.

JalPine / Thor665

Nothing yet >_>



Most significant reads are Minimum Town and Starbuck Scum. I'll read the rest before voting Timmy for hammer fear, but yeah. That's where I stand.

[AurorusVox]

PS I'm going to bed so that's your lot for now.

[AurorusVox]

<24h to deadline in another game I'm in so I've given that my primary loving tonight. I'll read over the rest here tomorrow. I will hammer Timmy if needed once I've done that.

[AurorusVox]

Eh, I still have a couple mins. Skimming last page I came across this:

Can someone explain to me why Regfan is conftown? The whole double-voter thing aside.

Didn't someone confirm Reg's role/alignment with an investigation?

PS Timmy that reminds me, what's with you saying I never referenced any of your posts when I've been explicit about my previous townread on you?

[AurorusVox]

oh yeahhh, and AurorusVox claimed one-shot rolestopper that protected bvoigt

...

[AurorusVox]

Proddodge while I complete the rest of my read-through. A couple new players have turned up but I'm still not getting solid reads on everyone. Apologies for delays, it's the end of term so I've got a lot of final-assessments to mark - I should probably have declared a V/LA a few days ago.

On which note,

V/LA tonight through Tuesday

. I'll attempt to finish the read-through before I go out of action late this evening (around midnight...)

[AurorusVox]

Right my V/LA is ending today, I'll get

another

catchup post underway =_="

[AurorusVox]

Mmkay, I'm going to ISO the people my reads either didn't reach or I'm less certain on. Incoming ISO bombardment.

[AurorusVox]

@Mod, my name isn't bold in the OP :'(

[AurorusVox]

Okay I'm going to make lunch. Have half the ISOs now. I read the last ten posts of these players. I also read Minimum's thing from last night and gave my thoughts down there.

4nxi3ty

– Town
This post in particular. He's consistent in his approach to creating a viable Zdenek wagon. His reasons sound genuine.

Pushing Plum here works in his favour too. Tell is lessened by multiball, but still, reads as trying to gain as much info out of the flip as possible.

Kortul

- scum

Now isn't this interesting, considering Andrius died over modconfirmedTown PYM:

Andrius/Shinori - leaning town due to early PR claim. How he is still alive is a mystery to me.

I can see Kortul arguing for an Andy kill last night, but the question is whether he would flagpost it so blatantly in-thread. That said, it fits pretty well if he's MIA over the night phase – and I know getting into that stuff is slippery territory, but it could well be Kortul stating who he wants to see dead in case he can't make it to his QT at night.

Also he

hasn't

reread his neutral reads. Those are the ones I would (well...am) prioritise!

“We have enough walls already” says Kortul, but that didn't stop him from walling in defence. I don't like the defence post and his declared desire for concision affirms that.

Magua

– leaning scum

I like this post. Firm reads on the major wagons, exasperation at a possible wagon shift. In light of Tim's flip as town, it might be argued that this is scummy, BUT think it through: Magua holds the wagon off Thor in order to lynch Timmy. If it shifts to Thor, Magua has to go along with it. Hell, he has to go along with it whatever happens. This post ties Magua to lynching Thor. ThorScum would mean Magua is town.

Hmm. But he HASN'T voted Thor yet? Which breaks all that towncred I gave him, and turns him into a potential ThorBuddy instead...

Brief interlude to see what Minimum has to say relating to my claim...

Given a day ability was notified at the beginning of the following night, I assume it's the same for night actions. So Shadow couldn't have had a double-action on N1. He probably would have been informed at the beginning of N2 if he could torture twice (if Tammy's hint means he was her N1 target).

I'm not sure I agree with the logic here, and not just because I know it helps me out if I can prove MoS rolestopped Shadow. A day action that made a difference to a night action would be notified at the start of the night in which it could be used. You're arguing that a night action that affects another night action would also be notified at the start of the night in which it could be used, which is a fair assumption, but not the only one. It is possible that day actions notify at night; but night actions (resolving at the end of that night) could very well be notified during the end of night/start of day crossover. I do NOT believe Shadow would be notified during N1, but rather that it's more natural for night-resolving actions to have their effects “take place” or “issued” at the start of the day rather than waiting until the following night phase...

That's just my take on it from how I've modded games in the past. Maybe others do it differently vOv

[AurorusVox]

If Magua flips scum, I'd reassess my Thor read (in fact he's one of the other three players I'm going to ISO since his slot didn't feature in my previous catch-up).
And if Thor ends up being scum, it'll strengthens my Magua read.

Look, I saw something that made Magua very likely town, but then his lack of follow-through meant that I had a reason to doubt that read.
It implicates both him and Thor. I'm not suggesting we lynch Magua today, but it's something to keep in mind for the future.

[AurorusVox]

Why would you say enough walls after doing a wall yourself?

[AurorusVox]

I skim walls most of the time so I agree with the sentiment. It just seemed odd that you'd be happy to use it as a defence but then berate other players for doing it. And by odd I mean scummy.

Anyway, I thought I was on at least page 35 and got disheartened when it was only page 13. But I thought fuck it, I'm satisfied with my reads on Minimum, Tyene and BBM. So instead of reading the start of the game with all those extra players and posts, I decided to focus on ISOing the players who I hadn't read the first time around or was not satisfied with.

That leaves Pandora, Thor and Zdenek to do.

[AurorusVox]

Prodded, not at home, will post within the next 12 hours.

[AurorusVox]

So...you thought that Timeater was town (and were therefore sheeping every read of his and obnoxiously kissing up to him) because you got the impression that he fucked up his softclaim.

To recap, that's literally the only reason that you called Timeater obvobvobvtown. He didn't make a single post that you personally felt was town, and you're perfectly fine with his lynch now. But you thought he was close to confirmed town based on the softclaim fuck-up. Is that a fair characterization of your opinion?

Well, a fair characterisation is that I thought he'd fucked his claim up and was therefore town. If scum have fakeclaims, they wouldn't counterclaim a town role this late in. Once I locked this read in I treated everything else he did as town.

Let me ask you this. Never mind it being harder for scum to fuck up a fakeclaim in this game. If he's town, then

how the hell can he fuck up his softclaim in the first place

? What did you think his motivation was, as town, for softclaiming something different from his actual role? Please explain.

Because he's Timmy, replaced into a slot with a wagon, and was trying to get it off his back. I'm not saying it's protown, but I think of the two, what he did was more likely to come from town fucking around than scum messing up.

Also, how did you realize that scum had fakeclaims?

I searched "fake claim" (or fakeclaim, probably both) and found a post where someone said mod was helping with fakeclaims - I assumed this had been discussed and confirmed in thread?

Also also, the conclusions in your reread feel somewhat contrived and tailored to fit your current opinions (for example, the leading wagon Timeater not being a town read anymore). When you first read the beginning of the game and decided Salamence was worth voting for, why didn't you share all that stuff about Starbuck looking scummy and Minimum looking townish then? (Never mind that our thoughts on Choose strategy could not be more null and unrelated to alignment.)

Because I spent three minutes looking for something that pinged me in a deeper way. I hadn't developed reads on Starbuck or your slot at that point.

[AurorusVox]

@Minimum, because he was softclaiming Jamie Lannister. If scum had fakeclaims, he wouldn't have softclaimed something someone else claimed.

@Magua: someone said something about Staeg being helped out with a fakeclaim from the mod.

Ok, if Staeg is scum, even though there was lot of time to prepare a fake claim with the help of mod

@kortul - if Timeaster had a fakeclaim, he wouldn't have fucked up his claim like he did.

[AurorusVox]

Ehh. I read 4nx as town, this looks town, but his claim doesn't fit the game in the slightest...so I'mahammadat.

Magua

Thor, your whole "I'm going to stir the shit" shtick got old 20 pages ago. In any contest between you and Zdenek you're getting lynched;

the only reason you're behind compared to the Zdenek wagon is that we're all voting Timeater.

Now can you do me a solid and stop making these pages physically painful for me to read?

Is this you saying you suspect Thor, or not?

If yes: can you explain to me why you haven't yet voted Thor? In fact, why have you barely mentioned him at all this gameday?
If no: what

did

you mean by the bolded?

[AurorusVox]

Okay thanks for clarifying Magua. You can be town now.

[AurorusVox]

As I explained, his claim is wonky and so I will hammer him.

[AurorusVox]

Ehh. I read 4nx as town, this looks town, but his claim doesn't fit the game in the slightest...so I'mahammadat.

[AurorusVox]

I'll vote/hammer once Kortul is caught up.

[AurorusVox]

Vote: Kortul

Thor, do you think there's

no

case on you; or do you think there's a

bad

case on you? You seem to suggest both over the last ~10 posts of your ISO...

I wouldn't mind hearing the case on me - I still dispute it's ever existed.
A link would be balls awesome, but a re-state is acceptable.

The above doesn't seem to jive with this and this where you react against the cases put to you.

---

@Zdenek

In this post you call Kortul Stannis-scum; you give reasons for all your reads except this one. Can you explain how you decided he was Stannis scum? Also, could you re-evaluate given 4nx's Aegon-flip, or at least tell me if the "one of..." reads can apply to Stannis scum in place of 4nx?

I've been rereading today, and so far the two people who I think are reasonably likely to be scum and Stannis aligned are Kortul and Anxiety, so needless to say, I am not surprised by this at all.

Are you more confident in ThorScum than KortulScum at the moment?

---

@Pandora

So the current forecast is Anxiety, Thor and Zdenek as scum with some random guy thrown in as a fourth chaser? (hint it's kortul).

Probably too easy.

If you read my well-written case (you didn't read my case did you :< ) you would know I think Anx is possibly buddies with kortul. Zdenek and Thor don't quite fit as scum together because they're kind of been opposing wagons for a bit, but other scum driving etc. and I think there was always a third wagon around.

Can you just run me through this?

You have {4nx, Thor, Zdenek, Kortul} as scum, with 4nx and Kortul as partners, but you

don't

see Zdenek and Thor as being partners? How does that shake out in that case?

Also, just picking up on the bolded, what exactly did you mean by "probably too easy"? Because earlier you said pretty much the opposite, that you didn't think scum would be caught very easily...

-_- I supose that's at least a reasonable reply, even if I think you're wrong. I doubt the last scum are going to be so easily caught.

[AurorusVox]

@AV

- you are polling opinions on me and Thor, but what is your read on Thor? You mention him a lot, but i don't remember how do you read him.

I have him as town from my initial readthrough, hence why I'm voting you instead of him.

And you forgot to answer my yesterday question. In 3744 you mentioned my words from a Day 2. When did you read them, since during the reread you stoped on page 13?

I suspect people are skipping my posts. I searched the words "fake claim" in the topic search bar, and read through to get an idea of whether fakeclaims were modprovided. In the process I found that post...

~~~

@Thor
Okay, but the word "except" implies a case exists, right? You've reacted against a case, however bad or terrible or "unlike a real case" it was. So when you're asking for a case to respond to, do you think you're going to get anything different from before? The people making the case obviously believe it (or are scum). In that respect, what's your read on Minimum?

Or is it just so that you can show to all of us who are not voting you that we shouldn't just hop on your wagon?

~~~

@Pandora, in a kind of "too good to be true" vein? I can dig that. But if it's just one of Thor/Zdenek + Kortul, who do you think is the remaining scumbag? Before you had it being Thor, Zdenek, 4nx plus Kortul as the fourth -- if you're so sure on Kortul, why didn't you have him as one of the primary three the first time around?

[AurorusVox]

Oops missed tagging this one on the end

In this post you call Kortul Stannis-scum; you give reasons for all your reads except this one. Can you explain how you decided he was Stannis scum? Also, could you re-evaluate given 4nx's Aegon-flip, or at least tell me if the "one of..." reads can apply to Stannis scum in place of 4nx?

Reading how Kortul talked about both bvoight and Salamance on day one, it's not too likely that he's Aegon aligned. Well, considering we know they were split up, this isn't the strongest point, but it makes him being scum less likely. On the other hand, I don't see Stannis scum sticking their necks out and voting Thor like he did at the end of the day yesterday.

So you've re-evaluated to Kortul-town?

That brings up even more difficult questions, because you're not left with anyone on your "Stannis" side. Which of the previously "Aegon-aligned" players do you think could fit as Stannis-Scum?

[AurorusVox]

So you have Thor as top scumread, with kortul/minimum/magua as all tied for the last two spots?

[AurorusVox]

Thor, isn't "town or not scum with me" essentially saying you are either scum or town...i.e. a pointless distinction to make?

[AurorusVox]

Kortul's answer is pathetic.

"This argument only counts for players who think I'm scum, therefore will not apply to me."
Obviously the whole argument only works if you're scum since it's about you controlling an NK. But that doesn't matter in Thor's point.

The REAL argument against Thor's point is that you'd still be able to say that whether you read Thor as town or scum, therefore it's a pointless distinction for Thor to bring up.
The fact that you've gone down some convoluted "oh no it doesn't apply because I'm not scum" route shows that you are trying to weasel out of an accusation (which in reality has no founding) because you are more concerned with looking town than looking at Thor being scum.

If you thought he was scum, you'd have realised his point is moot, and may have even called him scum for it.
Instead your reaction was to turtle back and defend against the point as if it was legitimate because you wanted to highlight your own townishness. Hell, you probably don't even think Thor is scum, or you wouldn't be treating it as a legit point in the first point!!

[AurorusVox]

You have that backwards, I had Kortul with 4nx as a possible partner, and then Thor/Zdenek. Actually it's kind of insulting you could possibly think that when I WANTED TO LYNCH KORTUL.

This is what confused me because in one post you had kortul/4nx, and thor/zdenek, but in a later post you had 4nx/thor/zdenek all as the three scumbags and kortul was left until the end as the potential "mystery fourth" (your words). Maybe it's not me being backwards, but you being inconsistent?

[AurorusVox]

AVox talking about how dumb Kortul's answer is is also bad actually. What else would you expect him to say? "Oh yes you caught me I am scum plz lynch here <---" It actually makes more sense for a townie to make the argument kortul is making. "I'm not scum because I'm not." Why exactly should he have put more thought into it then that?

Really?

So Thor comes along and essentially says "Wow here you show that you think I'm either scum or town!" and you think his reaction should be "This stance if perfectly acceptable and makes sense to those who believe me to be scum of which I am not one and so your argument against me is invalid!" rather than "no shit Sherlock, you ARE either scum or town."

Hell, you YOURSELF just called Thor's argument semantic bullshit. Why didn't kortul say that, is my point? Why treat it as a legitimate point against him that needs evading through some convoluted idea about how you read kortul in the first place?

[AurorusVox]

Prodded. More posting tomorrow.

[AurorusVox]

BB is 99% likely town. Why would you lynch him?

[AurorusVox]

Thor, I'mma lynch you at deadline, so how about helping me get kortul lynched before that has to happen?

I like this guy.

I am tempted to apathy hammer Thor but will hold off while the possibility of a Kortul lynch is still around.

[AurorusVox]

Pandora is probably also scum.
We'll lynch YOU first though.

[AurorusVox]

Thor vote Kortul. And stop calling BBM scum or

I'll

hammer you.

Minimum I used to be good but I haven't pulled scum in a long time and I think I got lynched last time.

[AurorusVox]

I don't understand why the kortul wagon fell away. Pandora get in here and vote kortul. Thor swap your vote. BBM hammer it.

[AurorusVox]

It's a thorgone conclusion that Thor is getting lynched today since

Apathy

vote: Thor

=====[]

[AurorusVox]

Yeah, I'm being spiteful.

But feel free to ignore the significant piece of evidence against AV I just brought up.

Sorry to burst your bubble but I posted on-site during the night phase.

Pseudovote: Kortul

[AurorusVox]

So we go from "significant" to "suggest" and "could've"

[AurorusVox]

Fuck has it been that long since I last posted here?

Can

everyone

(including AV) give their opinions, whether 5 Aegon - 2+1 Stannis scenario is possible/makes any sense (ie 2 Aegon remaining)?

I don't think this makes sense. A Clash of Kings mafia had 2x 4 man teams. A Storm of Swords had 5x scum and I think (??) some third parties, but they were split as 1 and 2. There are no role PMs for that game so I can't say whether they match up with possible 5:2+1 here buuuut I think 4x4 makes more sense given ACOK.

I think lynch should be between [Kortul/Pandora/Zdenek]. Even with Minimum as an outsider given the wonky push on my slot, we still have 66% chance to hit scum there (I'm clearing Magua because he's obvobvTown), and tbh I think we're probably looking at the scumteams with all three there anyway.

[AurorusVox]

Do you want selfmeta?

[AurorusVox]

'kay, but I'm not Aegon.
Look I was hoping I'd get killed off after my claim made me obvTown.

Minnie's push on me is making me all sorts of paranoid though.

[AurorusVox]

ARE YOU CLAIMING STANNIS?

If you say so.

Look, from my PoV, for you to be town, at most one other player in the game can also be town. And while everyone else makes me feel

bad

about suspecting them, you've been playing like scum since you replaced into the game. So I need to see a lot from you to get me to believe that you're the townie and not people like Pandora and kortul.

Question: where did the 66% number come from?

Not Stannis either. Pandora is scum. What 66% number?

[AurorusVox]

Magua replaced ABR who softclaimed Aegon early on?
That kinda takes all the shine off it. Magua's response isn't exactly inspiring.

[AurorusVox]

@mod, Magua's vote is on Zdenek...right?

[AurorusVox]

lol pandora is so scum.

If I'd ignored it and said "MAGUA STILL TOWNBRO" he'd have accused me of ignoring the blatant crumb.
As if it would be better to ignore it.

I would lynch PANDORA, MAGUA and probably KORTUL.

[AurorusVox]

Lol he has Magua as scum but would lynch me instead.
OBV MAGUA BUDDY ALERT

Makes Kortul the last Aegon.

So we lynch from Pandora/Magua today.

[AurorusVox]

Wow I derped, I was high from Pandora's 4250.

So we have

MaguaAegon

PandoraStannis
KortulStannis

Leaving Zdenek and Minimum. Pandora I think is solid Stannis. Kortul I could get paranoid about them being town and doubt myself.

[AurorusVox]

Zdenek was scum while I thought you were town so I can definitely swap Kortul out for him - I mean I've kinda been tunnelling Kortul and have convinced myself he's scum so it's possible Zdenek fits that space instead.

Pandora though has become very much confirmed scum to me.

[AurorusVox]

When you were town, there were three scum in the remaining players.
But if you're Aegon, there are only two spaces, and I'd have Pandora and Kortul before Zdenek.

[AurorusVox]

Vote: Pandora

"List your top 3 scumreads"
"No list them without me in there"

Eat hemp.

[AurorusVox]

Okay guys, can I just apologise for some of my abysmal play in this game. I went through what I have since realised was a bout of depression IRL, and every time I looked at the game I just couldn't muster the effort to read it (all my past hobbies no longer interested me, not just mafia...) But then the thought of replacing me out made me feel even worse, so I tried my best to keep afloat. When I got "confTown" based on role I tried to just let that keep me in the game.

PS Magua I don't think I ever read your alignment right.

[AurorusVox]

Damn I realise now that I should have shot Pandora; that would have given town a chance at least! D: