American Revolution Mafia, Hostilities have ceased!

[Tammy]

Hey y'all. I'm replacing super smash bros fan. I'll start reading this game over the weekend and should be able to give you my thoughts in a few days.

[Tammy]

Have we already massclaimed?

[Tammy]

Oh okay then. No one visited Magna last night.

[Tammy]

Well color me derping it up by post three. This is actually my fault. I was running out the door and didn't think about the difference in phrasing for nights one and two versus three. Basically the response I got to my question regarding night actions was that I watched magna all three nights, no one visited on nights one or two and on night three I saw nothing. So clearly differentiated if I would have actually been paying attention.

Although I'm pretty confused as to why I would have been blocked if magna wasn't killed. If my slot watched magna nights one and two, they would have had to assume I would watch him last night too. Why block me but not kill magna? I'll have to look and see if something happened yesterday that would have made them think I would change my watch target.

So fourseen - how did you just "know" I was lying? Also, I looked back at your play today and you claim to have seen BC visit MoI, but he's claimed VT and has denied your tracking results and you don't vote for him? MoI directly points out that BC is calling you a liar and asks for your thoughts, but I can't see a response. From your point of view the only reason why someone would deny being tracked to someone who isn't even dead would have to be because they are scum, yet you aren't or werent voting for him. Why not?

[Tammy]

Last night I watched magna but saw nothing, same wording for night three.

I'm not caught up on my read through yet, and probably won't have a chance to get to this game again until tomorrow.

Balance and role issues are not my strong suit so I don't know how likely it is that town would have two tracker and a watcher. I will say that Nero coming in today and saying he checked with the mods and would still get his results if I was blocked has thrown me off a bit. As scum he didn't have to do that, he could have just kept calling me a liar.

[Tammy]

The two halves of that post seem a tad non-sequiturish. On the subject of Fourseen, he made good points on Nero, who we then went on to lynch, who ALSO flipped town. Hence, I'm suspicious of the driving force behind the lynches, and a lot of the townie lynches so far, MoA. I'm suspicious enough of JUST how effective that mason claim is, and I am perfectly willing to believe that MoA is scum but not his buddy.

If you think he is scum, why aren't you voting for him?

[Tammy]

After that Tammy has not anything of value yet and nero's flip does raise questions on the existence of a roleblocker or not.

Agreed. What was said claimed blocker doing until the point that Tammy needed to claim retroactively that “Oops, had to re-read my result”. Also Tammy’s lurking in this thread relative to elsewhere is a big warning sign for me.

Part of this is fair. I haven't poste anything of value yet. I have some Isos to finish and I want to look back over shos and fourseen, and will post my thoughts tonight. But I have not been lurking in this thread while being active in other games.

That said, I think you guys are making too much of the double voter. I've never played with a secret double voter, and never a double voter on this site that I remember, but I have seen a double voter used at my other site. The double voters that I've had experience with have never been able to use their power at lylo, and I cant imagine why they would here. It would create too much of an imbalance.

[Tammy]

That said, I think you guys are making too much of the double voter. I've never played with a secret double voter, and never a double voter on this site that I remember, but I have seen a double voter used at my other site. The double voters that I've had experience with have never been able to use their power at lylo, and I cant imagine why they would here. It would create too much of an imbalance.

What? The Double-voter can't use their power at LyLo? I've never heard that before, there's no reason to believe it, and in fact the wiki states the opposite. At any rate there's certainly no reason the town shouldn't assume the DV will cause LyLo a day early and act accordingly. Frankly I find this post scummy.

How is my giving my opinion on the double voter issue based on my experience with double voters scummy? If its different here, it's different here. But I really can't see how a double voter would work in lylo as its creates an imbalance and unfairly gives one side an edge over the other. We can assume whatever we want, and if it makes people act a bit more cautious, I'm all for that, but until someone tells me that they've experienced a double voter in lylo I'm going to think its unlikely.

[Tammy]

I see what you mean, but I think we are arguing something different. The double other may cause an endgame scenario earlier, say in this instance, if the double voter is scum and has an extra vote today, scum, scum, plus secret vote is more than the 50% needed to lynch when 5 votes are needed. But what I don't think is likely, and what I've not seen before is the double voter keeping their power in actual lylo when two votes are needed to win the game as that would be really unfair.

[Tammy]

Actually never mind. In my explaining my point to you just realized that you guys are worried about what's happening today, not 3 person lylo...I think.

[Tammy]

I believe the mason claim. I think that moi is a good enough player to pull off a mason claim as scum, but he's not doing it here. I wouldn't bank it on cobblers play after he was a bit resistant on the shos lynch, but after some of the lengths I've gone through as town to save scum from rope, I don't have much room to talk and all of it was quite natural and the rest of his play reads town enough.

But really I believe it on the strength of MoI's play. After seeing Philemon suggest that he was scum because of the lynches and nero's suspicions from yesterday, I went through his ISo a couple times and I don't see any evidence of scum play here. (oh side note: seeing majiffy claim that his play here didnt match his scum play when he brags that his town play is indistinguishable from his scum play had me in stitches). Anyway I don't ever see a scum magna saying that snakes replace out wasnt alignment indicative in Post 893. Scum magna would have no reason to downplay that, and I think even if he believed it he wouldn't say it. I also don't think that the way shos or fourseen interacted with him was indicative of partners being bussed, plus I think that he would have taken whatever opportunity he could to bus fourseen first if at all possible. There are lots of little other things, but they just add up to him being town.

[Tammy]

For the neighbors, sir bastion reads town. He might have held back on the shos wagon a bit, but he was voting and pressuring fourseen the whole time. If he was going to bus, why not pick one, no reason to raise suspicion on his other partner so soon. That and the way he threw his suspicion around read genuine. His recounting what he's talked about in the neighborhood reads incredibly genuine as well and i just dont see scum suggesting to organize a few lynches to confirm claims at the start of today. Although I would like to know why he thought there was bussing going on with the fourseen debacle.

Philamon doesn't read town though. I'm not a numbers person in the least and don't really look at vote counts and analysis until lylo, when I absolutely have too, but magna makes sense with the cmar counter wagon on day one. The only two unflipped are Phil and SB, and out of the two Phil is more likely based on play. Snakes request for people to give their scum reads so he would have a better idea for where to look on day one reads as scum who is looking to blend in and find who he'll get less notice for pushing on. He then made little comment on anything game related soon after moi replaced in other to call moi scum for leading the town and white knighting the town. Sure moi pushes for the lynched he wants, and can sometimes drive you nuts :p , I'd say that the fact that it took awhile to get shoes lynched and the cmar counter wagon that rose up against it is a pretty good indication that things weren't what snake claimed them to be when he replaced out. Phil's iOS has had a LoJack of scumhunting in it and has people listed as scum for things that appear playstle or personality based, such as aggressive. He finds magna scummy and says that his driving the lynch of scum could be bussing, but hasn't bothered to read day one to see if the play is indicative of that. He seems to also be blaming him for mislynches that he didn't fight against. I understand getting frustrated when someone pushes through a lynch you fought against, but not when it's someone who was on your scum list, ie Nero, and freely voted for without opposition. Reads as tring to shift blame onto others and causing paranoia where there shouldn't be any.

[Tammy]

bloodcovenent is my strongest town read outside the mason pair. Cmar was a big ball of blah but his wagon did spring up as a counter to scum, and even though that doesn't guarantee you've got town there, it holds true in most instances. Beyond that he reads town, his scumhunting reads genuine as does his push on majiffy nd ogml. There also the matter of the fourseen incident, and though I think fourseen is a liability to whatever team he's on, I just can't fathom why he'd claim he saw his partner tracked to moi. Not only that but not vote him when he claimed that he was vt and didn't go anywhere. I can't see how fourseen thought he was going to get out of day four with that claim and he reads s if he was just throwing crap anywhere to see if it would stick.


Sucrose is reading null/weak town to me. There are moments in her iOS that read incredibly town, for instance how she dealt with fourseen on day four and some of the questions she posed. When I first joined I wondered what was up with her concern that she prove she's not the double voter, but then I saw it suggested she could be the double voter. Still she seems to focus on it a lot, and got caught up in defending herslef a bit too much at first. Still I can't see the scum motivation in defending me when she could easily be pushing for my mislynch right now.

[Tammy]

The two remaining reads i have are kimor and dry fit with me thinking kimor is more likely scum than dry fit. So kimor has some interesting ideas regarding the beloved princess claim, but the day before he said he didn't like some cmar posts regarding shos that would lead him to be all right with a BC lynch but he never pointed those out when asked for specifics. His predecessor pine had all of 5 posts and some terrible reads with some weird theory behind the, that I can't reconcile with town. Oh and his predecessor Starbuck hd a whole of 9 posts where she does little more than say "catching up". Can't find town here.

Dry fit has few more posts but he feels more genuine even though he hasn't been so active, plus he's voting Phil right now which I approve of. He joined the shos wagon mid way through which could be some bussing when it looked inevitable, he then however jumped off when and made both shos and cmar even. I'm not too sure what to make of this. He could have easily jumped to the counter wagon but he didn't, he just removed his vote from plat altogether. I don't like his preferencing himself as a town read to himself in Post 270. Rings off. Post 955 reads as coaching to fourseen. In Post 1004 he says that he didn't vote day one because he Had doubts about lynching the claimed doc but in removing his vote and not placing it on anyone else he effectively lowered the lynch pool. But if he were shos's partner and he was about to go down why didn't he push it for the cred? All up I don't find town here either but he's third in my line of suspects.

[Tammy]

But Nero also tracked me to you that night.

[Tammy]

Phil's iOS has had a LoJack of scumhunting in it

Totally unrelated to actual game play but this has to be the funniest auto-correct sequence I have seen in a long time …

Oh lol...I think that was supposed to say a real lack...don't know how it got to that.

But Nero also tracked me to you that night.

Your point? Nero has already stated he checked with the Mod and role-blocked roles would still be tracked to their target. He was unexpliciably Town so he wasn’t lying about it. Furthermore the point I am making is that you only claimed Roleblocked after you claimed to target me and Toog refuted that claim.

Sucrose is trying to say “Why would Tammy claim to have been roleblocked but claimed to have targeted MoI anyway?”. Clearly that’s a poor reason to give your slot Town cred given that the ‘Roleblock’ revelation only came after Toogs refuted your “no-one visited MoI” claim.[/quote]

I thought you were saying that I didn't watch you and I was just pointing out that Nero tracked me to you that night.

[Tammy]

I would quote but on phone and big pain in ass...

Phil - if your target is to Scumhunt and get questions answered, why aren't you doing that?

Sucrose - I'm not a scum pr, but ive been tracked to moi two nights, I would imagine he'd mention if he got blocked from an action if he had one.

Waiting on Kimora's post too...

[Tammy]

VOTE: philamon

[Tammy]

I don't have any reports different than the last few nights.

Also, why is this being treated as lylo?

[Tammy]

Yes.

[Tammy]

Discuss what? That I didn't answer your lylo question last night? Read the three posts I made. You'll see me talking about me being sick and not dealing with most things but what was important and simple. I'm not going to try to explain a thought process right now.

[Tammy]

Prod dodging. I know I still have to answer magna's question. Only feeling slightly better and need to catch up with real life work missed before I do anything with mafia.

[Tammy]

Magna - as far as the lylo question, I wasn't taking the double voter into account. And I still don't think that the double voter is going to work in lylo like that. I've never seen one that keeps their power when it creates an imbalance like that, so I'm pretty much disregarding it.

I don't know what to say about your question, but I don't see how it is really comparable to here. In zach's game I wasn't much of a presence u til mylo after magua was killed and I suspected everyone left. There was no one in that game I thought was solidly town, so I started doing interaction analysis of the remaining few of you who were left. I did the legwork that you've actually done in this game. I have several people who I think are town here and unfortunately my main suspects aren't really providing much and don't have a whole lot to work with in their Isos. It's a little tough to move forward when the last person left to claim is not showing up.

[Tammy]

I don't know what to say about your question, but I don't see how it is really comparable to here. In zach's game I wasn't much of a presence u til mylo after magua was killed and I suspected everyone left. There was no one in that game I thought was solidly town, so I started doing interaction analysis of the remaining few of you who were left. I did the legwork that you've actually done in this game. I have several people who I think are town here and unfortunately my main suspects aren't really providing much and don't have a whole lot to work with in their Isos. It's a little tough to move forward when the last person left to claim is not showing up.

Let me just say I find it troublesome that you have taken no initiative of your own. I don't honestly see Town Tammy (regardless of what 'legwork' I had done) not taking any sort of initiative at all. You actually seem much more paranoid as Town. And you replaced into the game the day before Magua got killed IIRC so that's not an 'out'.

But the day after we quicklynched the serial killer and headed into mylo with me not having a solid town read. That, coupled with me feeling like I was being manipulated by you in the neighborhood, was what kicked in my paranoia. But fair enough, I do need to put in more effort.

[Tammy]

I watched magna every night. Nights one and two no one visited him, and the remaining nights I saw nothing.

I was tracked to magna by toogeloo night one and by nero Cain night three.

[Tammy]

Magna - since you said you have the vote counts color coated in a document, would you mind posting the vote count just before the one you posted for blood covenants question along with it. I'm trying to make sense of the votes shifting off of shos when it was at L-1.

[Tammy]

Yes, toogeloo tracked magna night three and I didn't see him.

[Tammy]

Yes.

[Tammy]

Just sticking this here so it's easier for me to look at:

shos (8): MagnaofIllusion, amrun, empking, Dry-fit, Super Smash Bros. Fan, toogeloo, lastsurvivor, Fourseen Circumstance
StefanB (3): (Code_X) , shos
CryMeaRiver (3): Majiffy, SirBastion, OhGodMyLife
Fourseen Circumstance (2): McStab, StefanB
Toogeloo (1): CryMeARiver
MagnaofIllusion (1): snakeplissken
OhGodMyLife (1): Nero Cain
Not Voting: Starbuck

shos (9): MagnaofIllusion, amrun, empking, Dry-fit, Super Smash Bros. Fan, toogeloo, lastsurvivor, Fourseen Circumstance, Nero Cain
CryMeaRiver (4): Majiffy, SirBastion, OhGodMyLife, snakeplissken
StefanB (2): (Code_X), shos
Fourseen Circumstance (2): McStab, StefanB
Toogeloo (1): CryMeARiver
Not Voting: Starbuck

shos (7): MagnaofIllusion, amrun, empking, Super Smash Bros. Fan, lastsurvivor, Fourseen Circumstance, StefanB
CryMeaRiver (7): Majiffy, SirBastion, OhGodMyLife, snakeplissken, shos, Nero Cain, toogeloo
Fourseen Circumstance (1): McStab
Toogeloo (1): CryMeARiver
Sir Bastion (1): Cobblerfone
Not Voting: Starbuck, Dry-fit

shos (8): MagnaofIllusion, amrun, empking, Super Smash Bros. Fan, lastsurvivor, (Fourseen Circumstance), StefanB, Cobblerfone
CryMeaRiver (5): Majiffy, OhGodMyLife, snakeplissken, shos, toogeloo
Fourseen Circumstance (2): McStab, SirBastion
OhGodMyLife (1): Nero Cain
Toogeloo (1): CryMeARiver

Not Voting: Starbuck, Dry-fit

[Tammy]

If it isn't clear I was thinking Tammy was secretly making your vote count as 2 or making whoever you vote's lynch threshold be reduced by one

Which seems fairly viable considering what other options there are and makes sense with the double tracker etc.

Interesting, and I know it's been pointed out, but why would I not out that I was gifting Magna with an extra vote each night?

This reads to me like someone who knows exactly what is going on with the double vote issue and is trying to confuse the issue.

[Tammy]

Okay, some of this is just notes for me as I'm going through day one and looking at the build up and drop of the shos wagon and CMAR counterwagon.

-Magna was the first vote on shos and never removed it.
-Amrun second vote on and never removed it.
-Right after FC agreed that shos looked scummy but left his vote on Starbuck while also saying he doesn't like CMAR and stefan but doesn't vote either of them.
-Empking votes shos and never removed it.
-Majiffy gets on the CMAR counterwagon which already had OMGL and Snake on it.
-FC accuses CMAR of buddying Stefan but votes Stefan making Stefan the leading wagon.
-Dry-fit votes shos making shos/Stefan wagons have four votes and CMAR three
-SSSB replaces in and soon after votes shos and doesn't remove his vote
-Toogeloo votes shos making him the lead wagon
-Nero votes shos bringing him to 7 votes
-Last Survivor brings shos to 8 votes
-Shos claims 2 shot Doc
-Dry-Fit unvotes and doesn't re-vote anyone for the remainder of the day (I thought he didn't have anymore posts that day but I was wrong, he says that Snake is his next scum read but doesn't vote him and OGML is scummy as well and questions Majiffy about the CMAR wagon.) (shos at 7 votes)
-(Majiffy - no offense, but gods you're annoying...seriously that attitude is not going to get you what you want...you don't have the charisma to pull it off - you should buy a headband of charisma +6 that might help.)
-SB voted CMAR putting the wagon at 3 and doesn't move his vote (Snake had already moved his vote off of CMAR and onto MoI).
-At this point CMAR is at 2 while shos is at 7
-Nero unvoted shos (puts it at 6)
-OGML voted CMAR (puts it at 3)
-FC votes shos (puts it at 7)
-Snake votes CMAR (puts it at 4)
-Nero votes shos (puts it at 8)
-Shos votes CMAR (puts is at 5)
-Nero votes CMAR (puts it at 6) and makes the shos wagon at 7...though something's off. SSSB alerts the mod that shos is at L-3 in actuality though the vote counter says L-2...he didn't account for dry-fit's unvote
-Stefan votes shos (puts it at 8)
-toogeloo unvotes shos and votes CMAR (puts shos at 7 and CMAR at 7)
-cobblerfone votes shos (puts shos at 8)
-SB unvotes CMAR and votes FC (puts CMAR at 6)
-Nero votes OGML (putting CMAR at 5, shos is at 8)
-cobblerfone unvotes shots to think (puts shos at 7)
-Majiffy and OGML unvote and vote Amrun (putting CMAR at 3, shos is at 7)
-shos votes Amrun (putting CMAR at 2, shos at 7)
-cobblerfone votes shos (shos is at 8)
-shos votes SB
-toogeloo votes shos (shos is at 9)
-shos votes CMAR for survival but in same post votes toogeloo
-SB hammers shos

Yep, IIoA...I might look at this tonight if I still have time before bed, otherwise I'll try to see if any of this can tell me anything about the wagons tomorrow. I really only included this outline of stuff as it pertained to the CMAR/shos wagons, so that I can look at it with the vote counts. I don't really do wagon analysis, so bear with me when I do, but I think it can be manipulated/thrown off. In Heterosexual Revolution we pretty much made a concerted effort to have a scum counter wagon to scum to throw this type of analysis off, but that took a whole lot of bussing to make that happen which I'm not seeing here.

[Tammy]

Okay more stuff I'm sticking here to look at tonight: (I also need to look at slanders case and read through BC, but some of it looked petty and some points not really alignment indicative at first glance.)

Shos votes:

Empking
Stefan
Nero Cain
Stefan
CMAR
Amrun
Sir bastion
CMAR
Toogeloo

Fourseen circumstance votes:

Starbuck
Stefan
Shos
Cobblerfone
Blood covenant
Philamon
Tammy

[Tammy]

I don't see slanders case on BC.

-The first point is petty. He's arguing semantics...or word order rather.
-The read screw up thing is eh, but scum tend to be a bit more careful about who they're calling town/scum, so I see the point but it's not enough to declare certain scum over.
-I don't see the major sucking up to magna. I see someone working as a team, and his kind of passive style could be personality based, not everyone is argumentative, and while magna likes for people to agree with him he also dislikes being buddied and I think if he thought that was going on, he'd have called him out on it.
-Hypocritical is hypocritical. If he were town, he'd pay better attention. Yeah, okay.
-In this case, slander tries to claim vote hopping is scummy. *shakes head*
-the rest of his points were eh.
How does one make an uncautious vt claim?
Does town never ask if it's all right to hammer?

Cases exist to tell as much about the case maker as about the person the case is against. And this coupled with slanders replace in attitude, his weird double voter theory - the answer to which he never gave me - and his slots previous contribution doesn't sit well with me. I just can't get a sense that he actually believes this case he put forward or the points. I don't know much about slander except he has a really big ego, but he seemed to be a bit thorough when he replaced into scummies. His little "skit" was designed to do nothing but antagonize and I can't see how that comes from town, unless he's going for the scum would never behave that way act.

Meh, I've got some reading over everyone to do this weekend but his suspicion against sucrose has an inorganic feel to it as well.

Magna - you said that cobbler wanted BC's head in your qt. Why did he find him suspicious?

[Tammy]

okay so recollection of everything:
SSBF - leaning scum for his earlier play and bad logic against me.
CMAR - I know there's a case on him, but quite frankly I don't wanna lynch him so far. only as a last resort to prevent my own lynch; I need to see him respond to the things against him before I can get the real read on him.
MoI - oh this one is scum hands down. yes he is a pro and stuff, and he's leading people and builds cases and stuff, but seriously, look at the way he hunted me, the bad sense of logic and the misreps - I'm all for lynching him.
Toog - null. pros and cons make it even.
OGML - leaning scum. Nero has good points against you, but I'm still not as sure as can be. I guess it's ok to lynch him.
Stefan - I think I missed a post by you somewhere, I'll see it later lol. anyways - scum, yes. since the start of the game his posts are flailing scum imo. when under pressure he cracked like an unboiled egg and the scum dripped from it. it just got fainted away when people ambushed me.
NC - scum. I have some controversy with myself tho, my gut's kinda changed on this. I'd prefer to leave him alive today.
McStab - obviously not lynched. but should be vigged ASAP.
Sir Bastion - compromise lynch. bad posts and stuff, nothing TOO big but scummy indeed.
Lastsurvivor - err. I had a townread on him at the start, but then he started failing in logic class again and again too. leaning scum - not a lynch for today that's for sure.
Empking -OMIGOSH this guy is so scum, I'm gonna eat one of my dogs while farting the anthem if he's town. LYNChLYNCHLYNCH
Amrun - bout the same scum as MOI, even moar. empking-amrun is the leading targets now.
FourseenCircumstance - leaning scum. needs to participate more. not a lynch for today too.
Majiffy - leaning town. only leaning because of the extensive buddying. but he's really the only good thinker here.
cobbler - eh, not sure. I'm gonna give him null leaning (null leaning town), as in the midway between leaning town and null. needs more content too.

SnakePlissken
Starbuck
Dry-Fit

these three I don't remember shit about. Starbuck is even in this game???

Just putting this here to look at.

[Tammy]

Well scum voting patterns didn't really teach me anything.

Shos voted confirmed town the majority of the time. He voted CMAR as the counter wagon, and voted Amrun for the same purpose as he was following majiffy. He then votes SB for no provided reason, before voting CMAR in the same post as voting Toogeloo. He never votes fourseen circumstance and had very little interaction with him or comments on him.

Fourseen votes mostly votes confirmed town also. He votes shos on day one for what seems to be an extension f the not knowing your wincon argument. Day three he opened up arguing that the empking killed lead back to blood covenant and voted him, then he made his claim and voted Phil. His claim is weird as in he said he saw BC visit magna, but didn't vote him when he called bullshit and instead said maybe he was a pr or something. Doesn't make sense with his voting him at the start of day for being connected to the empking kill, so I'm not sure what he was trying to do with that. He then voted me for busting his claim. I don't know what to make of fourseen, but I just don't see him pulling his partner into a mess like this, especially with the way he tried to implicate cobblerphone on day two.

[Tammy]

Gods I hate lurkers...amendment to above. It was day three he tried to draw BC to the empking kill and then day four that he made his weird claim.

[Tammy]

I still need to look at the wagon analysis I put up, but I'm more inclined to go slander as well. His case was weak, the double voter thing is eh, and the attack on sucrose makes no sense to me. But I have some more reading I want to finish up with tonight before I vote.

Dry-fit. Sorry if I wasn't clear. I know they aren't confirmed town. They voted confirmed town most of the time, I elaborated on why and when they voted the remaining people in the game.

[Tammy]

Okay so read through blood convenent. He still reads town to me.

I tried to make sense of the wagons. I'm still trying to figure out why dry-fit jumped off shos and didn't vote anyone else for the rest of the day. He said it was to catch up but he didn't try to start a counter wagon or add to one, he just left his vote in the unvote section. I still don't know what to make of that.

I've also stared at the wagons and looked at the places people jumped off. I'm not really one for wagon analysis but most of the jumping off and jumping on wagons seemed to be town motivated and I'm not sure where I see the big thing about the CMAR/shos wagon. It looks like there was a clear jumping off of a lot of town and scum. The wagons as they competed equally had town/scum shifting. Meh.

Slandaars still my best lead for scum

VOTE: slandaar

[Tammy]

SB - im confused by what you mean by he didn't want to look at it because it wasn't mylo.

[Tammy]

SB - That makes sense

BC - I saw nothing.

As far as my top two scum reads...I need to do some re-reading and re-analyzing. My top scum read remains Dry-Fit, but seeing as how the remaining people were in my town reads I have to read and think. Since Slandaar ended up being town I'll take a closer look at his case as well as the wagon arguments concerning BC by Magna.

The deadline isn't listed yet, but it will be two weeks right? I'll be gone the majority of next week for Thanksgiving as I'm going on vacation so I'll get as much done before Tuesday as possible.

[Tammy]

Dry-fit you were always my third suspect. I posted my read of you earlier and not much has changed due to you not being very active and nothing really shifting.

I need to re-read through day one, and look through Magna's stuff.

I'll be on v/la until Sunday for thanksgiving. I'll try to post if I can but I can't promise anything

[Tammy]

Okay deadlines sooner than I thought. I'll make sure to give whatever bits of time I have over my vacation to do something with this game. I will be back from vacation Sunday evening, so I can spend time then.

Dry-fit I gave my read of you in Post 758 and nothing has changed except for with analyzing the votes on day one, your jumping off of shos and making both CMAR and shos even and not voting for the rest of the day look more suspicious to me. The early vote on shos looks like early distancing, and though you said you'd be willing to vote him again and were just waiting for a few people to catch up, you never voted. I gave it some merit before that you didn't help out the counterwagon, but now that we're down to the wire, you not voting for CMAR isn't as positive as I once thought. If CMAR/BC is your partner then it would make a lot of sense for you to not vote the counter wagon to your other partner and instead just removed your vote from the pool entirely. The lack of activity is also problematic for me. I know you said you had Internet problems and started a new job, but you didn't vote yesterday and just popped in to comment cursorily on a couple of people. All up, I can point to things that I can consistently see others being town for, and while I find some of your earlier posts genuine, your most recent activity is rather unengaged.

Sucrose - I need to re-read through your double vote stuff again, and I think it holds some merit. I refuse to believe that sir bastion is the double voter (I'm not even sure if your suggesting that but only have a few moments right now) as he is confirmed to be a neighborizer through confirmed town Phil. So, the only two people the double voter could be are either dry-fit or BC as the claimed vts. I can see your scenario of BC being scum with the double vote, but I'm wondering if he would actually do that as he would have to know that someone would conjecture just that scenario and that it would make him look horrible. I'll look back over when the secret vote has appeared to come in when I have another few minutes. I remember magna making a post in which he broke down the votes and tried to determine who it was so, I'll look at that. I guess part of what concerns me is that dry fit didn't vote yesterday at all even though he said he preferred slandaar and corrected what he thought I meant by my analysis of shos and fourteens voting patterns.

[Tammy]

Okay, so I'm not sure if looking back over the voting information helped with nailing down who the double voter could be...

The day the majiffy was lynched, both BC and df were on the wagon, but if I'm right the dv wasn't used that day, so never mind this id that's the case.

The day that ogml was lynched both BC and dry fit were on the wagon with dry fit as the last official vote.

The day that fourseen was lynched neither BC or dry fit were on the wagon. Hmm...BC was around friday morning then declared a v/la in post Post 1535. A couple votes came in for fourseen and king George made a clarification Post 1560. BC didn't post after the mod's post, but dry-fit was active after sucrose put fourseen at l-1. And fourseen was lynched the next morning.

Neither BC or dry-fit was on the Nero Cain wagon. BC was around and asked if they wanted him to hammer, but didn't. That day went by fast, and dry fit didn't post at all. But why would BC put in a secret vote instead of hammer like everyone was telling him to do?

Dry fit was on the Phil lynch but BC was not. Okay this is weird. The note on the lynch says that my vote in Post 1801 was the hammer. Though it looked like BC was the hammer when he voted in Post 1804.

The slandaar wagon had BC, but dry fit wasn't voting at all. He said earlier that he preferred a slandaar lynch but didn't vote.

Okay most of this is just information. If I get a few more minutes later tonight, I'll see if I can draw some conclusions from this, if not I'll look at it tomorrow before more sight seeing.

[Tammy]

Okay, sorry I didn't get to this yesterday's like I hoped...touristy things precedence.

So, in order for dry-fit to be the double voter he would have had to make his last vote and hammer vote about the same time since he was last on the wagon, and amrun voted a couple posts after dry-fit nd it wasn't counted. He would have had to submit his secret vote sometime after sucrose put fourseen at t l-1. I was originally wondering why he wouldn't just vote but there was some contention around that time with Nero and my getting blocked although fourseen was going to be the lynch anyway as magna was quite insistent about it and I think he would have gotten what he wanted. Dry-fit could have decided to cut his losses and get rid of fourseen who by that time could have been seen as a liability if he continued to live. He would have had to submit his vote for Nero Cain but not posted in any other game that day as he has no posts on site for the time of the Nero lynch. He would have had to submit his double vote when he submitted his real vote for Phil as I ended up being the hammer. He would have had to submit his secret vote for slandaar when he said that's what he preferred or at any other time before BC voted.

In order for BC to be the double voter, he'd have to have submitted his secret vote sometime of the ogml lynch. He was on the wagon really early and kept pushing for the lynch pretty strongly, so it could potentially have been done at any time. BC would have had to secret vote before he went on v/la, but there would have been no issue with him voting at the time that he declared v/la as the fourseen lynch was at that time the only suggested lynch and we were only really waiting on that so that kimor and I could catch up. BC was around at the time of the Nero lynch and asked if people wanted him to hammer or put him at l-1. More than one person told him to go ahead and vote, there would be no need for him to secret hammer if people were giving him permission to real hammer. That and the Phil lynch really point away from BC being the double voter. He voted in 1804, but my vote in 1801 was the actual hammer. Again there is no need to place a secret vote if you're just going to hammer anyway. I also have trouble buying the theory that he voted and secret voted for slandaar at the same time as it would have just looked horrible for him. And therefore I think it's more likely that the vote was already there.

All up I see more evidence pointing to dry fit being the double voter. The only thing in his favor over this is that he didn't post anywhere on site the day that Nero Cain was lynched until after the lynch occured, and the secret vote was used for that lynch. But this is far from conclusive. Am I missing anything? I think I'm running out of plane wifi minutes, so I'll try to get back to this at some point tonight after my flight lands.

[Tammy]

Sucrose - is there a reason that you don't seriously consider dry fit for the double voter? And since you made a hypothetical double-voter scenario, can you tell me what you think of my analysis of the double voter issue? Also, have you ever played with slandaar before?

[Tammy]

Okay lets do this

VOTE: dryfit

*cross fingers*

[Tammy]

Sucrose I see your point but am posting from bumper to bumper traffic and posting from phone sucks so I cantmakea response right now.

[Tammy]

YAY!!! :dancingbanana:

This is my second mafia win! I really did expect to get lynched every day for messing up my fake claim. I'm sure fonzie got tired of my emails of me freaking out/apologizing for ruining his game immediately after replacing in followed by complaints about people fake claiming watcher.

I don't really know why we killed Stefan. I hadn't read the game at that point as I didn't expect two quick lynches in a week, and expected to be the instalynch after fourseen. It wasn't until aftere Nero was lynched and people said something about my lack of contribution being worrying that I started to actually read the game and put in some effort as I thought I might have a chance. I hate being scum and am not that great at it at all, so I'm pretty happy with the effort I did put in, trying to keep suspicion off BC was my main goal and it turned out okay in the end so yay!

Sir Bastion - I'm sorry. The scum team wasn't drawing it out because we're cruel...just very paranoid and cautious. I wanted to vote last night, but I was so afraid that if I voted it would make it obvious I was scum and you'd unvote before BC got a chance to vote. Though when he didn't vote today, I kinda wanted to scream because I had a six hour drive home and knew that there was no way I'd be able to do anything if suspicion started to go towards him.

Toogeloo - I don't know what second lie you're talking about. Yes, I got caught lying about not seeing you visit moi, but I didn't lie about being tracked to moi that night. I *was* tracked to moi that night, I just said I was blocked, and with Nero interpreting the mod message the way he did I could have been tracked and blocked. Although the slip up from my end allowed us to kill moi without repercussions so it was all cool in the end I suppose.

Thanks mods for running the game and letting me replace in! I'm still sorry that I nearly ruined the game upon replacing in but happy it all worked out somehow. I had a fun time playing with you all!

[Tammy]

Toogeloo - I don't know what second lie you're talking about. Yes, I got caught lying about not seeing you visit moi, but I didn't lie about being tracked to moi that night. I *was* tracked to moi that night, I just said I was blocked, and with Nero interpreting the mod message the way he did I could have been tracked and blocked. Although the slip up from my end allowed us to kill moi without repercussions so it was all cool in the end I suppose.

The first lie is that you saw nobody visit MoI, when you should have seen me. You had to backtrack and say you were roleblocked, which was your second lie that Nero caught you in.

But, Nero cleared me of that lie as well. I was *-* close to claiming that I saw you that night. I can't believe I didn't listen to my instincts.

[Tammy]

S. Bastion - I'm glad my cautious paranoia paid off then!

[Tammy]

Toogeloo - I know it didn't make me town. I expected to be lynched for it every day and was surprised every day I wasn't. After the Nero lynch, I just hoped if I played it off it wouldn't be too big a deal, but I thought there was no way they'd buy two town trackers and a town watcher.

[Tammy]

Toogeloo - I know it didn't make me town. I expected to be lynched for it every day and was surprised every day I wasn't. After the Nero lynch, I just hoped if I played it off it wouldn't be too big a deal, but I thought there was no way they'd buy two town trackers and a town watcher.

Why did you claim no results today?

Couldn't you have just claimed something and gotten pretty much anyone lynched. Or hell, could'a just chose me even, to clear you as total town.

I'd been claiming to be blocked for days. I couldn't really claim to have seen something after claiming to be blocked. Way too much chance for that to backfire. Besides, how would I explain being alive tomorrow after seeing you kill Magna? People had stopped bringing up the why was she blocked on night three when not being blocked on night two, or noone being blocked night one, and I didn't want that to start again. Like I said in the qt, I'm not that great at being scum anyway and am only somewhat competent the least lies I have to tell. I got past the lie from the first day, I didn't want to chance it again.

[Tammy]

Tammy – Don’t ever expect to get a pass for low activity based on RL in the future. It may have been the truth but I will never be able to let it happen again based on this game. Otherwise good use of scummy Town PR play to skate by on your claim.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean? The first week was partly my fault/partly the fault of quicklynches. I didn't read the game in the night phases because I expected to be quicklynched the day Nero was after I messed up my fakeclaim. I didn't expect to come home from work that day to find the lynch had happened. Beyond that every game ive been in this semester has had moments of low activity from me for one reason or another. If you mean me being sick, well there's nothing I could do about that and is not something I would lie about to hide behind anyway. I'm still not completely better, but I feel like I stepped it up after that. I think your Post 1840 was more of a fair assessment though because it went to the heart of the problem I have as scum. But thanks for saying we played well enough to win! Maybe one day I'll stop feeling so damn guilty trying to set people up for mislynches to actually play a really decent scum game.