Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Legacy (Game Over)

[mykonian]

ok, hello. I was rather disappointed, saw the list, thought I could play with aurorusvox... and you killed him page 10 I don't think I know the flavour after all, no clue what character he was supposed to be.

Anyway, that still leaves a big list. Not really cool. And while I know that I absolutely love playing with AV... the rest isn't that special to me, I fear.

2. Melmond - don't know
3. zabriel - don't know
4. Shahrizai - me!
5. Kise - oh hi there. Well, that makes sure I'm in a themed game, I guess.
6. Cybertronix - don't know
7. BloodCovenant - should know... but yeah.
8. PeregrineV - lurks if he's scum.
9. Amrun - now I know why this game has so much stuff to read.
10. Acosmist - don't know
11. Zoroaster - has a very unfortunate name
12. Yates - don't know
13. Benmage - cool dude, ok to follow onto bandwagons, is more often right then it seems.
14.

I Am Innocent

AngryPidgeon - don't know
15. ThAdmiral - experienced dude, doesn't flake even in large games but tends to have a low frequency.
16. jasonT1981 - I think I should know you...
17. snifit - hello there again.
18. Tammy - I guess the same as amrun. You have everything in you to become the new farside.
19. Kublai Khan - I keep mixing you up with someone else. Either him or you called me a bad townie somewhere. Proved to be rather prophetic. You were the guy who shouted too much for what you wanted to say, I think.
20. rapidcanyon - don't know
21. Nero Cain - should know... or you modded a game I played in.

So this game is going to be a pain. I am not really a themed game player. I tend to avoid larges. I depend on meta to a certain extend. So I guess I'm just here as a service to the community and I wasn't in a game anyway.

Now to actually see if any of this stuff works.

Amrun has 16 posts. Isn't voting at the moment just before deadline. I think amrun has the officious title of "most time spend on ms", so something is terribly wrong there.
nero calls me town while my predescor has 4 posts. And he states explicitly he doesn't actually know. Buddying? I guess. Don't think it's actually a tell, as a second thought. If he buddied it would be really concious and obvious there. Still, feels weird.


ok, that was a huge post without actually reading more then a page, but I guess that's as far as I get. I'll have to actually read stuff now.

[mykonian]

ok, starting the read of this monstrosity now.

@KK. Kuribo then, I guess. I don't know korlash other then by name.

nero calls me town while my predescor has 4 posts.

not exactly. True your slot is in the town pile but that's b/c I think there are scummier slots in the game.

What was the point of listing all the players in the game and stating weather or not you've played with them?

Bolded stinks.

And either people react or they don't. And it's the thing I can do simply which is actually useful to me without actually reading the game.

@zor, yes

[mykonian]

A good cup of tea goes a long way. I'll need it.

No idea where jason is going with his first post. Dislike that he's arguing from the point where he is scum. + points for jason
acosmist claims PGO straight away. I don't know acosmist, but you have to have some guts to fakeclaim on page one. Few dare. Who's solid snake? - town

Solid Snake... in a Harry Potter game..

Yea, no.

It's a harry potter/metal gear solid mashup.

Ah, stuff is answered. I'm not familiar with metal gear solid.

I tend to agree with KK on zabriel. I didn't read the flavor either. Townpoints for KK, scumpoints for zabriel.

Post 36 is obvious scum.

vote yates

I'll see later if it makes sense, but that one pings all alarms.

meta read on benmage is town.

aaaarg 70 scum caught. I'm going to end up with too many scum, but who cares. Melmond is the name.

and at 98 kk sheeps my read goodies

oh god I found a tammy post. And it doesn't tell me anything. woohoo

jason/yates flavour discussion is painful

185. I want melmond to die.

I don't get the zab wagon. But I have to say, I'm already starting to skip more then I read. Time to actually get my tea in a cup.

Hey, I wouldn't hammer yates accidentaly, but melmond is the leading wagon. thumbsup.

[mykonian]

ok, starting the read of this monstrosity now.

@KK. Kuribo then, I guess. I don't know korlash other then by name.

nero calls me town while my predescor has 4 posts.

not exactly. True your slot is in the town pile but that's b/c I think there are scummier slots in the game.

What was the point of listing all the players in the game and stating weather or not you've played with them?

Bolded stinks.

So you think POE is bad? I'd say there are going to be no more than 6-7 scum. Between, Melmund, RC, Kise, Snifit, AP, Ben, Zab, Zoro, I feel I has a nice batch of suspects. So unless you are claiming scum and knowing that any of those scum reads are wrong then I don't see how you find my "not scum read" on your slot unlogical.

It's the "not exactly" together with that. It isn't backtracking since you keep at exactly the same point. Don't know what the correct term for it is.

and I'm not really liking the "shut up or I could put you in the naughty corner" tone either.

[mykonian]

ok, ok. I'll shut up.

Last thing I typed up before I went to bed:

Uhm, yeah. Can't really do a thing with the av kill. Nice that it's scum, but there aren't many connections.

I think I can only call cyber, yates and jason town from that. That's unfortunate. Not that I was going to stay on yates, but anyway.

Bloodcovenant's post about zabriels slip (multiple scumteams) is seriously significant.

[mykonian]

last thing, regarding the acosmist claim. Treat is as a miller claim. It's the save solution to claim it right away, if you get a role like that. I once didn't as pgo, and it was a fun game, but people did expect me to do it.

I yet have to see a scum claim PGO straight away. I saw one town fakeclaim it. Odds are in Acosmists favor, there. Further, there's nothing you can do, but doing some honest scumhunting. The reason claimed millers get lynched so often is because you have to be the very best town to avoid people doubting you. I disagree with his point that you should decide to lynch straight away. Look at it a day or two days before lylo (or when we think that is, I guess), seeing the overall play and make a decision. That way, if he's town, you leave scum with a problem for plenty of days, and if he's scum he won't win the game for it. At least, if we make the correct decision then.

So far, I'm not stunned by his play. If he wants to abuse his role, he should make himself a problem for scum. But that is something that might change in the next couple of days.

[mykonian]

I can't do anything with the counterwagons either. For the amount of talking about Angrypidgeon, there were very little actual scumtells going one. I'd suspect people used him to place their votes safely. I never even understood why rapidcanyon was voted.

So, pretty much regardless of what melmond claims, I'm not going to be happy with another lynch. And I don't feel like giving melmond another free day for a fakeclaim.

vote melmond

====[]

[mykonian]

quickhammer?

Well, I was happy with the person it was on. There wasn't a counterwagon I liked. There were multiple players who I had townreads on on the wagon. I wanted that wagon to end up in a lynch.

All in all, it does mean I probably went wrong somewhere. The wagon's build up and it being on town suggest there were scum on the wagon, so a couple of my townreads fooled me.

[mykonian]

I think Yates is town. Calling out the hammer is sort of oldstyle scum and not very popular. Further, AV's interaction with him suggests he's town.

I think mastin is rather eager about jumping on that.

vote mastin

@jason. Uhm, there were others before, and I kinda was rereading the game up till that point when people told me to "shut up and read". Which I did then, while you put the game at l-1

[mykonian]

no, it's the AV flip that changed stuff. Last post before I shut up and read.

And the "you" was in general. The rest of the game.

[mykonian]

Hmm, fair 'nuff. Makes Zoro look town as well, by the way.

Unvote,
Vote: Zabriel.

Someone is very eager to move away to a "save" wagon. I'm staying on mastin.

quickhammer?

I obviously don't have a problem with the vote itself since it was the same wagon I was on. I also appreciate that it was a long day and ultimately that was the vote that was going to go through. However, RC put Mel at L-1 at noon. You hammered 80 minutes later without giving Mel a chance for a last post. I just want to know your thinking there.

I didn't want a claim, didn't think it would change anything.

[mykonian]

because he actually doesn't know.

[mykonian]

no.

[mykonian]

Do you honestly think that was a serious vote?

I knew I wanted to vote Cyber or Melmond. Just had to check which one I wanted to vote more.

These two statements are mutually exclusive.

He can't have wanted to vote Cyber/Mel, checking to see which he wanted to vote more, and followed it through with a vote, and have it not have been serious. The vote was premeditated, planned out in advance. I've quoted the evidence showing his thoughts before AND after the vote that confirm he meant it at the time.

And yet, now he's trying to claim that it wasn't serious?

Again,

SNIFIT IS

CAUGHT IN A

LIE

. WE'RE LYNCHING THIS BASTARD TODAY.

A. Now I need to fucking read that.
B. Very few players are stupid enough to actually lie.
C. The first sentence where you actually explain it is that you call "shifting from a non serious to a serious vote" a "

LIE

I'm not enthousiastic.

[mykonian]

Pidgey, I'm going to give you the benefit of doubt, but that's about it. I really don't like that amrun flaked, it's a bad sign.

[mykonian]

Myk, I think you're misreading what I'm saying.

I'm not saying he shifted a non-serious vote into a serious vote.

I'm saying he's lying about it ever having been not serious. The evidence is right there, in his iso. Both before, where he lays out Cyber-suspicion, and after, where he justifies his cyber-suspicion. He provided reasons before the vote. He provided reasons during the vote. He provided reasons after the vote. That's plenty serious.

Then I fail to see where I went wrong. And I fail to see how this justifies using

text like this

Basically I'm pretty sure you are bullshitting something that might look like a perfectly logical read, and I'm not going to let that shift the attention away from you.

[mykonian]

tbh, I don't. I know you as a player who does more then he can get away with, a schemer with great plans of which many are infeasable. No offense, but subtlety isn't your forte.

I think if you could make a case on something

obviously wrong

, you'd abuse it, thinking you could fool people easily. And the timing seems to support that vision.

@nero, I've only seen snifit in a game where he was confirmed town. He was uhm, underwhelming, though I might have had a hand in that. At least I tried to crush his spirit a bit, though I don't know if the resulting play was the result of that or just normal. In general, I have no clue how to read him.

[mykonian]

So...a player from 2008 has no read...are you scum?

No. I'm just someone who has learned not to shout reads when you don't have them. And snifit falls in the category of players I've been wrong about more then I've been right.

The game just finished, so you can check where I got the above from. He was a mason, confirmed town, and was left alive. He was wrong mostly, sometimes right, never really active. The only point of the game where he really pushed something was right after he'd been confirmed town (and then he pushed someone who was playing townie IMO). I shouted at him, and in my experience I heard little from snifit afterwards.

So I'm going to find someone who I think town and going to see what they think about snifit in a couple of days, and that's going to be my read

[mykonian]

benmage, do you always make lists?

And uhm, I think I'd prefer snifit over tammy.

[mykonian]

No. I'm just someone who has learned not to shout reads when you don't have them. And snifit falls in the category of players I've been wrong about more then I've been right.

Well get one. I mean I’m terrible at reading noobs but atleast I’m taking a stance. And if I’m wrong then I’m wrong. Avoiding taking a stance is terrible.

that's your opinion. I rather admit I have no clue then making up something I can't justify. I mean, I can make a case why he would be scum. I might even be able to make a case why he's town this game. And I'd have no clue which of both was the correct one.


I think someone asked who my suspects are. I forgot who did it. Currently they are among people as pidgey/mastin/zabriel/zoroaster/kise/nero/acosmist

uhm, this was mostly a proddodge, I'll try to actually read tomorrow.

[mykonian]

And I'm not getting lynched. Nightkilled, sure, lynched, never.

But even if a lynch on me were possible, that'd still just be one of his suspects--in a game of this size, there's going to be 4-5 scum, so he should have 3-4 suspects other than myself.

I've seen it happen when you are scum. And you were the one asking then.

I would entertain a ThAd case if it weren't for the fact he is Lurky McLurkerson and has so little content. That is *my* entire case on ThAd.

I'll have you know,

sir

, that I am the 8th most active player in this game.

The problem is that you seem to be doing very little. Show off a little bit more, please. Be a bold bloke.

Also, Mastin's probably town. I had a town read on Cyber anyway and the Mastin read is just stronger. I don't have a whole lot of experience with Mastin, but when we played in GvE together and he thought I was a member of the opposing scum team, he didn't come after me like this. The most of what he said was that I was terribad, but wouldn't really elaborate. The way he went after snifit so strongly reminds me nothing of how he behaved as mafia. And no, meta's not everything, but his tone is completely different. I'm not sure about when he jumped off his suspicions, my minds a bit hazy right now, so I'll need to look at that again...hopefully tomorrow.

I also need to look at snifit closer, his most recent post read really genuine, and some of what I had assumed about him was based on Melmond flipping guilty, which he didn't, so re-evaluations are in order. Hopefully I'll feel better tomorrow and can make sense of some things then.

I do think meta works on mastin, so so far you are ok. While he changed his play through time (mastin was known for drowning out games on his own before and he gradually stopped doing that), the way he plays means he's changing less then the average. He's trying to innovate but the core is the same. The problem is that you compare him having a scumread as scum with faking a scumread as scum. Mastin, again, is the man of great schemes and plans, whether they come into play or not. While mastin is playing confidently, he's at the same time planning how to go on in the next days. In a game where he thinks he has a scumread on a second team, he might think it's a better idea to call them town for some advantage later. There's a difference between him looking town and him trying to make a plan how to win as scum.

I mean, you know he's confident as scum. Just look at his play here, and compare.

Benmage is quite quickly moving to be the most townie player in this game.

[mykonian]

Ben's last post is bad. I don't like it. The defense is meh, and weak defense always feels a little bit like it's trying to subtly direct a lynch. Or at least it made me feel like voting KK. But figuring in the Tammy stuff that AP brought up, I'm wondering about Ben.

VOTE: Ben

you are wondering. Good for you.

I think you voted a townie.

vote zabriel

[mykonian]

Is the entirity of your case against Benmage a protracted "he's trying to lynch me!" OMGUS argument?

Nope.

Because Benmage's counter-case of "Hey Acosmist is a useless fuck who is coasting and not scumhunting" is much more compelling.

See above. Don't you feel stupid now?

Still waiting on that wagon on me. No one even made an attempt yesterday. Why is that? Vote or shut your whore mouth.

I'd be happy to do that.

vote acosmist

[mykonian]

Not sure whether Kublai Khan is lying and thus gets lynched as a liar, but whatever, I'd rather lynch him as scum. u scum with these ppl?

That's your entire case against Benmage? A single sentence half a game ago about how he's not that great, therefore scum?

How is you popping in every few days saying "my vote is lonely" not active lurking and prod-dodging?

if you know, why isn't your vote there?

[mykonian]

@I'm not so sure mastin. You don't seem town.

About the pidgey questions: because he's scum.

So posturing-Tammy is the theory.

I don't know about that. If we see a friendly neighbor or some such role die anytime soon I'd say it's pretty likely, but right now it seems reaching to me.

You don't know. "It seems reaching".

How is this post anywhere and why aren't you getting lynched for posts like this?

PEDIT: yeah, diiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeeeee

[mykonian]

you guys rushed 3 pages in a couple of hours. Be nice. Esspecially if tammy and mastin are posting.

As far as I know, mykonian, your read on me was "Ill give you the benefit of doubt, but amrun flaked".

Now you just magically say "Pidgey is scum!!".

Yo No Entiendo A Ti Hombre!!

Hence in between you confirmed the scumread. Seen that it's edit at the end of the post (so I just saw your post before submitting mine), you could even pinpoint that it's the last post that confirms it.

Meh, whatever.

The point is which I think you agree... there's NO reason not to out the message..

and really, little reason not to out the messanger.

If we think it's scum, tammy should claim this. If we believe it to be town it's little more then a chocolate townie.

I'd be happy with a kise lynch in due time.

Tammy's "why me" is worrying. Come on tammy, I had you on my townlist, make an effort.

[mykonian]

Ok mykonian that seems like Solid Reasoning

I DETECT SARCASM.

You just parked your vote on benmage. It's parking the way you made the vote: "well I have nothing better to do lets vote benmage". And it's not a good spot for your vote in the first place.

[mykonian]

I love you tammy, but you have to go.

vote tammy

[mykonian]

I didnt park cause i just moved it before you made that post!

*glasses* YEAAH

You are still scum.

[mykonian]

Unvote,
VOTE: Tammy.

Benmage's case is mounting, Tammy's reactions are getting worse and worse, and she was never in a good place to start with.

Let's apply more pressure.

(STOP NINJA'ING THE GUY WHO IS MULTITASKING. This whole page is new. )

What?
No!

Who cares about pressure when there's a cop guilty... wow mastin.

[mykonian]

unvote

Well, this one is easy to figure out. Tammy gets shot in the face within a day: she wasn't the dayvig. Someone else gets shot: she is!

I think benmage might want to fullclaim before he's shot (so if you are town tammy, please don't act too quickly)

[mykonian]

Lets Wingardium Leviosa the hell out of scum together.

Pedit- FUCK this is getting real. How can you prove it? YOu have had to softclaimed that shit somewhere. I NEED PROOF NOW.

I WANT PROOF OF YOU TAMMY, NOT A COUNTERCLAIM. I NEED SOLID SOFTCLAIMS ABOUT YOUR KILLS

I give you 2 mins

You aren't going to make day 3 for sure. How do these posts even make sense to you if you are trying to play like you are town?

[mykonian]

If we think it's scum, tammy should claim this.

lol @ fencesitting on a fishing pole.

Completely, yes. That's what it depends on though.


Pidgey doesn't get more obvious then this. Vigs don't counterclaim. They shoot. Hence you don't lynch a claimed vig. Ever.

[mykonian]

I can bold who I want to vig in thread or email it and it will happen.

Well I guess it is multiball, or I caught the SK... either way Tammy hangs.

Fire away tammy. If you are town you can prove it now. He isn't a gunsmith or something which could explain a possible false guilty.

If you are fakeclaiming... well, I guess benmage doesn't die very quickly then

I love how in 5 minutes we'll have certain scum.

[mykonian]

nero, if tammy is town, that's a flat out fakeclaim from ben, and he isn't taking it back in any form. She should shoot that if she's town.

[mykonian]

If we think it's scum, tammy should claim this.

lol @ fencesitting on a fishing pole.

Completely, yes. That's what it depends on though.


Pidgey doesn't get more obvious then this. Vigs don't counterclaim. They shoot. Hence you don't lynch a claimed vig. Ever.

Not when a cop has a guilty on said claiming vig.

Even then. A dayvig could swoop in now and just shoot tammy if she's scum.

[mykonian]

Wait, my mouse battery dies. You want me to shoot Benmage?

Yes. If you are the vig, he must be scum, and visa versa.

[mykonian]

What does "Pidgey doesn't get more obvious then this" mean you idiot? Is asking for breadcrubs any sort of scumtell to you AFTER someone claimed when they have a SCUM result on themselves?

I hate you so much right now but im starting to feel you are town.

Because vigs don't crumb pidgey. Fakeclaiming vig as scum is a pretty stupid thing to do (you tend to die very quickly).

Hence you let the situation resolve itself. And you don't keep your vote on the claimed vig. Because you don't want to lynch.

[mykonian]

Mykonian- But wouldnt town vigs crumb something? You know, in case THEY ARE ABOUT TO BE LYNCHED LIKE RIGHT NOW.
Anyway that's still a fucking dumb reason to want me dead but nice tunneling there brah

Because you don't lynch them. That's kind of the point. If she's scum, she gets shot by the real vig. If she's town, she doesn't get shot.

And I'm perfectly happy to wait for this situation to resolve itself. If I was wrong about benmage, I don't have to tunnel so hard.

It is rather advisable to unvote though. You don't want to lynch a claimed vig, really. If she's scum, she'll get shot. So don't be silly, as you can only mislynch her.

[mykonian]

I'm not lynching anyone. Just sitting and waiting.

[mykonian]

since when do cops get a guilty on SK's btw?

[mykonian]

Because I actually care about who gets shot. I'm not interested in shooting town. I'm not lying.

Is there a way for a cop to get a guilty on you?

If not, shoot benmage. If there is, he might be town, and you can shoot whoever you please. So unless you want to claim miller now, you should shoot benmage or get shot

[mykonian]

40 e-money on her getting shot in a day.

[mykonian]

I dont think Benmage, if scum, would actually just go and claim COP as SCUM when its D2 and there were no NKs. Seems like a bad trade off for scum, even if he was a goon.

I dunno. I probably wouldnt shoot Benmage. As much as it would be cool for me if he was scum.

He could claim insanity and move on. Because nobody would actually fakeclaim day 2, right?

[mykonian]

Because I actually care about who gets shot. I'm not interested in shooting town. I'm not lying.

Is there a way for a cop to get a guilty on you?

If not, shoot benmage. If there is, he might be town, and you can shoot whoever you please. So unless you want to claim miller now, you should shoot benmage or get shot

How are you so bad?

Technically there's like a 0.000000000001% chance a framer landed correctly. But nevertheless optimal strategy is to have her shoot, and obviously not the unCC'd cop who claimed D2 with little to no threat on himself.

Who happens to have a guilty on her. That's kind of the crux.

And I don't know. I'm a bad boy I guess. I'm enjoying this.

[mykonian]

I dont think Benmage, if scum, would actually just go and claim COP as SCUM when its D2 and there were no NKs. Seems like a bad trade off for scum, even if he was a goon.

I dunno. I probably wouldnt shoot Benmage. As much as it would be cool for me if he was scum.

He could claim insanity and move on. Because nobody would actually fakeclaim day 2, right?

And than I would be declaring people from here on out.. and arguing as to why I wasnt NK'd.

And Snape, his truth serum... a stretch for flavor to be insane.

cool. Then we don't have to worry about that either. So tammy isn't a miller and you aren't backing out in any form.

[mykonian]

Who happens to have a guilty on her. That's kind of the crux.

And I don't know. I'm a bad boy I guess. I'm enjoying this.

Yeah the cops claiming a guilty, and you're telling her to shoot the cop... If your town it will be tough to keep you off the gallows with logic that sound. Keep it up.

I will You just don't want to die.

[mykonian]

tammy, more time doesn't help you! I can wait all night, but that doesn't mean I want to! Shoot to kill or burst out in tears and confess you are going to get shot pretty soon

[mykonian]

Who happens to have a guilty on her. That's kind of the crux.

And I don't know. I'm a bad boy I guess. I'm enjoying this.

Yeah the cops claiming a guilty, and you're telling her to shoot the cop... If your town it will be tough to keep you off the gallows with logic that sound. Keep it up.

I will You just don't want to die.

Yeah how odd that I dont want the town cop to die... crazyness.

Yeah, I don't want town cops to die eithers. It's those scumbags that should go.

[mykonian]

I had a strong quick read on AV yesterday. Today, I'm trying to decide between BC and Thad or if anyone else has any suggestions I'll take them into consideration.

weaksauce

Snifit is a good bottom line for me. Everything higher on this list is nice.

[mykonian]

Help the mod is shit reasoning to kill someone. Sorry

you said something sensible...

[mykonian]

Either that means you didn't get what I said, or you didn't want to listen to me. Lets be optimistic.

I can't read snifit. I'll be happy if he's gone, even though he's a null read. The scumlist I posted somewhere is all better then a snifit kill, but everything else kinda drops below the bottom line of what's an acceptable kill for me.

[mykonian]

No. I'm just someone who has learned not to shout reads when you don't have them. And snifit falls in the category of players I've been wrong about more then I've been right.

Well get one. I mean I’m terrible at reading noobs but atleast I’m taking a stance. And if I’m wrong then I’m wrong. Avoiding taking a stance is terrible.

that's your opinion. I rather admit I have no clue then making up something I can't justify. I mean, I can make a case why he would be scum. I might even be able to make a case why he's town this game. And I'd have no clue which of both was the correct one.


I think someone asked who my suspects are. I forgot who did it. Currently they are among people as pidgey/mastin/zabriel/zoroaster/kise/nero/acosmist

uhm, this was mostly a proddodge, I'll try to actually read tomorrow.

[mykonian]

Still pretty happy with that. They aren't in order.

[mykonian]

"@Ben: Where I thought Myk was going is that IF Tammy is town then she should KNOW you are lying, so why hasn't she shot you then? Answer: shes scum."

ben knows. He just doesn't want to die if she's a SK. (and she doesn't really want to kill him if she's the SK. Benmage flipping cop just confirms her being scum). If tammy was 100% sure she's town, she should have shot the fakeclaiming benmage.

I had both high on my townlist, AP. I was wrong about one of them, as neither is backing out of the claims in any way. I'm curious to see which one it is.

This is all great fun. If benmage is the scum, tammy should shoot him (as she is town then, probably). If tammy is scum, she's going to wriggle out of killing benmage (as that confirms her as scum). And she's doing just that now.

[mykonian]

I mean, people have to appreciate this whole dance, right? I can't be the only one.

[mykonian]

fluff... perhaps, I guess. I'm enjoying this kind of fluff. I can totally see tammy-sk with the dilemma.

"shit, guilty
can't kill benmage, he'll flip town cop, too many questions to answer, I'll get lynched.
I could let them direct my kill. As long as I survive I'm fine with that solution.
As long as benmage lives, I'm not confirmed scum yet"

I mean, the whole thing would be unnecessary if she were town.

"Benmage claimed guilty on me.
there's no way he could get a guilty on me
Im shooting benmage the fakeclaiming scumbag"

[mykonian]

Its not entirely unnecessary. Scum or not, Tammy apparently has a shot left.

That would be a gunsmith type role. I dont think Benmage would say cop to mean GS. Name claim.

yup, that one was already covered. He's no gunsmith and he's pretty sure he's not insane. He's going all in there. Either he's fakeclaiming scum or he's a town and you are scum here tammy. There is no escape.

If you are a SK, there is another way to die then by a lynchmob

Make my day.

[mykonian]

he went to the gym, and he's only named a framer as a possibility. I can't think of anything else either, seen what he has said till now.

And a frame is indeed unlikely in a game this large.

[mykonian]

AP - You said you didn't like his reaction to you suggesting he could be scum with Melmond. Has that changed now that Melmond came back town?

Mykonian - If you mean me shooting myself I won't do that. Not going to waste a shot on myself when I can take out scum with it.

If you are a SK it's the best way to go. If you are town we don't have to have this whole discussion, as you obviously believe benmage must be lying

[mykonian]

go for it, girl

I am not quite sure how you intend to convince us we shouldn't lynch you afterwards.

[mykonian]

Why would I shoot myself? That's not very town-motivated. I wasn't lying when I said everything I've done has been town-motivated. I'd rather take out scum. If you guys lynch me anyway, then you do.

I think I can read this as a SK claim then.

no matter how nice you'll be, at some point you'll have to die then.

[mykonian]

yeah, I wasn't at my strongest yesterday. Should have filtered a bit more. Sorry about that, I was working a bit sleep deprived.

Benmage is right. If tammy was town, she'd have shot him. Tammy however in her posts already gave up. She claims she'll act town motivated, which I believe, I guess. The problem is still that she makes the last choice (as she did with thadmiral here), which wasn't the choice of a majority of town. I'm doubtful that she'll act like a second lynch.

If it's indeed day-sk/one scumteam, we should lynch her today, or in two days, to end up at a uneven number. After that, the fact that the SK is gone simply means more mislynches for us as there are less townies getting shot.

I think I'm taking the 50% shot at scum tammy. I don't think you'll hit that 50% if we give you two more kills.

vote tammy

[mykonian]

Wait, why are people voting Tammy? shes town... now she is outted as Vig, the fact her first day kill was on scum should really clear her as town?

Don't understand why folks be voting Tammy.

Tammy - all but confirmed town.

she claimed sk Jason. It's a shame, but she has got to go.

[mykonian]

Could use, yes.
Would use, no. If she shot anyone we didn't want her to, with any excuse at all, she'd still be lynched.

We have control over her right now. She can't get away with ANYTHING. No killing the cop, no killing a player we don't want her to. She does, she dies, period, end of discussion, no excuses accepted.

I'll repeat: lynching her is exactly what the scum want us to do.

I didn't want an Admiral kill. He wasn't even voted much or in any way a possible lynch soon. Still he was shot.

[mykonian]

ok, mastin, keep arguing with benmage then, I guess.

Mind if I sneak in a pidgey lynch in between?

vote pidgey

[mykonian]

Benmage, I really doubt that any mod would give a scumteam a daykill. It is near impossible to balance.

[mykonian]

seen her posts it wouldn't surprise me. That's fine. Either we lynch her now or we don't want her to die.

[mykonian]

Yeah i waslike the only one that was correct in my theadmiral lynch yet omg look at this counterwagon!

Im not afraid to die at all but people should look into my reads after im dead. Baring benmage, im almost completely sure i was right.

I will still give more reads later, for now lets get the most antitown slot out of the way. Look at how he had "so much fun" during the tammy benmage debacle setting up misslynches and how he has basicallly cringed to the easiest targets.

Vote mykonian

Baring benmage. And that was one horrible vote.

And if you didn't have fun between tammy and benmage, I don't know what you are doing here. Nobody backed out and something real was happening, one of them was scum. You don't get those situations that often. I even stayed up for it And I'm pretty sure I didn't "set up mislynches" as I was mostly there to watch it play out.

[mykonian]

Oh damn

I was attacking the cop lol

vote: Tammy

Im gay sorry

I didnt park cause i just moved it before you made that post!

*glasses* YEAAH

Lets Wingardium Leviosa the hell out of scum together.

Pedit- FUCK this is getting real. How can you prove it? YOu have had to softclaimed that shit somewhere. I NEED PROOF NOW.

I WANT PROOF OF YOU TAMMY, NOT A COUNTERCLAIM. I NEED SOLID SOFTCLAIMS ABOUT YOUR KILLS

I give you 2 mins

I want some sort of softclaim or im not unvoting. This feels like fishing for a counterclaim. Im pretty sure a vig would have breadcrumbed it someway after killing scum d1.

What's lame as shit about it?

I guess im using the wrong word. Breadcrumbs. That's what i want.

Im perfectly ok with being vigged to prove whatever as long as its right now.

Why do you want me shoot Benmage? Its perfectly fine to ask fro breadcrubs if there are any. (Which there apperantly arent)

Arent you reasing my last 5 posts? There are all completely town motivated.

BTW IF tammy IS a vig AND benmage is really scum im like one of the only ones that had been claling benmage scum so yeah.

What does "Pidgey doesn't get more obvious then this" mean you idiot? Is asking for breadcrubs any sort of scumtell to you AFTER someone claimed when they have a SCUM result on themselves?

I hate you so much right now but im starting to feel you are town.

Mastin wants me dead because she is probably scum and thinks going for easy target me right now is the best option. Consider how he doesn't even take a stance on WHO is scum out of Tammy and Benmage, she is fencesitting like a champion in her last post.

She just wants someone else dead form the vig.

Mykonian- But wouldnt town vigs crumb something? You know, in case THEY ARE ABOUT TO BE LYNCHED LIKE RIGHT NOW.
Anyway that's still a fucking dumb reason to want me dead but nice tunneling there brah

I guess I see your point then

Im dumb

unvote

Lets see what happens

If everyone is telling the truth and if for some reason Tammy is SK too then we will figure it out I think

What's with the hurry Ben

I dont think Benmage, if scum, would actually just go and claim COP as SCUM when its D2 and there were no NKs. Seems like a bad trade off for scum, even if he was a goon.

I dunno. I probably wouldnt shoot Benmage. As much as it would be cool for me if he was scum.

Just saying that if tammy was framed then flavorwise it wouldnt make sense for veritasium to fail since you have to say the complete truth lol

"Mafia Logic Failure"

pedit- I dunno that could still be bad since as scum posing as a proved insane cop you'd still have to throw innocents around unless you claim paranoid

Help the mod is shit reasoning to kill someone. Sorry

Mastin is a good shot

Pedit- Im a sensible guy~~

Im town though :=)

LOL i dont give a rats ass about BC.

Whos BC anyway

I just think Mastin has a better chance of being scum

Y u no claim your flavor name

So how does your mill works? Is it by posting it here or emailing the pappums cause i dont know why the 2 work.

So, these are your post throughout the whole discussion. Feel free to post the numbers of quotes which actually have content.

[mykonian]

I just asked for numbers of quotes which contain content.

I think I found 2 now.

[mykonian]

You won't get majority on anyone else,

I can certainly try. The scum want Tammy dead, and then you want Tammy dead, but there are plenty of people who are town and willing to listen to alternatives. The key is to coordinate which Tammy counterwagon to focus on. I'm advocating Kise, right now. Pidgey, myk, and BC are the alternative wagons right now. Myk, pidgey, and Tammy (the respective voters on said wagons) are almost certainly open to other options. (Especially Tammy.) And we're discussing them and coordinating them right now.

-antitown dead, helps reveal setup info check check

But not scum dead, and not revealing anything about the setup that we don't already know. It's impossible for Tammy to be groupscum. She'll flip day-SK, and that's it. No setup info at all. Nothing we don't already know.

-and eliminate future miskills check

Except she's not killing anyone we wouldn't mislynch anyway.

-day isn't dragged out check

What pro-town motive is there to end the day prematurely? We're discussing who the scum are. We know what Tammy will flip: non-mafia. So we're discussing who WILL flip mafia. There's nothing in that which we don't want to drag on; everything being talked about is things we should talk about.

-ensures no foul play, and cop remains alive check

Again, this plain and simple an Appeal to Fear, with no basis in facts. The facts are shown by the trends in-thread. She could have shot you today, Benmage. She didn't. She could shoot you tomorrow. She won't. Her play speaks for itself; she's in a town mindset, even if she isn't town.

-requires us to kill her at a later (maybe less fortunate position) This can be a minus or a check... we can't predict the future

I can. Tammy is lynched, flips exactly what we know she will, and we have a dead townie. We're no closer to finding scum than we are today.

- killing town minus

Again, anyone she'd kill is someone we'd have mislynched.

- killing town PRS minus minus

So don't have her kill without the target claiming. Instantly prevents this.

We don't need it, bottomline. No reason to risk her living.

There's plenty of reason to keep her living. You're right, we technically don't need it, but we also don't need her lynched; it works both ways.

As scum won't NK her, probably can't.

Again, THIS IS AN APPEAL TO FEAR. A Day-SK is already incredibly powerful. She can stop lynches dead by killing, and she can't be tracked, she can't be watched, and her kills can't be stopped. That's strongman, ninja, and semi-governor all in one packaged deal.
And on top of that, you think she's bulletproof?!?

Not a chance in hell.

Can you please not make such posts?

[mykonian]

I have to catch up on every thing since Monday, but just caught Benmages last post.

Why would I shoot you benmage? If I wanted to shoot you, I'd have done it already. What are you going to do? Investigate me again? You know what you should, maybe you'll get the correct result this time.

no, no, no.

A couple of posts ago you told "you were town motivated". Not alligned. You basically claimed SK. Don't lie about it now.

[mykonian]

Oh and I forgot. What is with all this BloodCovenant hate? It started to grow only once BC stopped posting, which is odd to say the least.

It started when benmage needed to single someone out. BC became almost proverbial scum because of that.

And I can't believe my luck. Hi nero, are you a scum neighbourizer?

[mykonian]

I don't understand mykonian last post.

it consists of two parts, and I guess I can see why you wouldn't understand either, but just to avoid making a huge post for something irrelevant: what didn't you understand?

[mykonian]

Oh and I forgot. What is with all this BloodCovenant hate? It started to grow only once BC stopped posting, which is odd to say the least.

It started when benmage needed to single someone out. BC became almost proverbial scum because of that.

And I can't believe my luck. Hi nero, are you a scum neighbourizer?

The first part is why BC is on everybody's scumlist. Around the part where the tammy/benmage thing started (ie, after benmage claimed), the scenario's were a bit complex. From our point benmage could be scum or town, if he was fakeclaiming tammy would have shot him. Nobody backed out through the thing and the problem was that tammy couldn't shoot benmage because she knows he's right. When he flips, this becomes obvious to us as well. Benmage, knowing all this, needed to give her some target to fire at without it being him. Top on the list? BC. Since the whole thing became rather drawn out benmage pretty much repeated it every post, making: "BC is scum" almost proverbial this game. It's simply sitting in everybodies mind, even if they didn't notice BC that much before.

As for nero and the role thing: scum neighbourizers are a thing. They are more popular then the town version, I think. The fact that Nero around that whole mess didn't want to claim it also is a bit doubtful, and I've had a bad feeling about Nero since I replaced in. I can't exactly put my finger on it, but things are off. This is all rather going in favor of my gut feeling about nero, and I'm happy about that. The question is a rhetorical one, but sets up the question: "why didn't you claim this, as there were plenty of opportunities".

[mykonian]

now I'm derpy.

I wonder if it has anything to do with suspecting you.

[mykonian]

now I'm derpy.

I wonder if it has anything to do with suspecting you.

nope. I think it has to do with your alignment.

You said even town could be derpy. What is it now, are you going to call me stupid for calling you scum or are you going to suspect me for it?

vote tammy

Sorry.

[mykonian]

Changed my mind.

Vote: Acosmist

Not yet. I want to know more.

[mykonian]

Oh hey, It's another patented Acosmist case.

- OMGUS vote
- No other reasoning
- Mentioning day-talk

You have literally done NOTHING else this game.

He claimed at the start of the game.

[mykonian]

good you are such a beacon of excellence.

[mykonian]

3. zabriel

4. Shahrizai mykonian

5. Kise
6. Cybertronix mastin2
7. BloodCovenant WrathChild
8. PeregrineV
9. Amrun pidgey
10. Acosmist
11. Zoroaster
12. Yates
13. Benmage
14. I Am Innocent AngryPidgeon
16. jasonT1981
17. snifit
18. Tammy
19. Kublai Khan
20. rapidcanyon Elscouta
21. Nero Cain

A lot of the players fail here btw. Particularly snifit and elscouta.

[mykonian]

Guys, you are making this game hard for me. You skipped through three pages and I read them twice now and I can't make much sense out of it. AP seems to be making sense a lot of the time, he's looking pretty townie.

1778, by WC. "Dude, there's a guilty on Tammy. It kind of needs to be done." is the worst way to go about this. Shut down your mind and follow the rules, whether they make sense or not.

The special part here, which might make this an exception is that tammy specifically stated that "she acted with a town motivation". And I think she's a nice girl who likes to be town more then scum, so you could abuse her as a sort of dayvig for some time. It simply makes this not a clear cut case.

1779 is mastin again going nowhere. Basic bandwagonning.

Benmages 1783 is cool. Confirms problems with WC.

1804 is KK being a dick. Yay, I found a friend. Scum as hell btw if I were KK and made that post. If he is scum I know what manipulation he did there. It's pretty nice in that case. Not so cool as town. Snifit knows.

Benmages 1810 is spot on.

No clue what acosmist wanted to say with 1817

1824 is simply reclaiming... don't see the point.

AngryPidgeon's 1846 is spot on. If the mod doesn't want tammy to cooperate with town, he shouldn't have put in a cop who could investigate her or shouldn't have put in a SK.

@Yates 1849: I argue she did go rogueish. That's kind of the point, I fear. She's a nice girl and she'll try to help town, but I don't trust her to do it well.

And then we get a mess between Jason and Kise. Who I never hear of in any positive way.


I think that people who don't want a tammy lynch should propose something else. I mean propose, and not blind bandwagonning like mastin is doing.

[mykonian]

omg thread still open

Same shit, different toilet.

if your play was as good as your play... we'd have so much fun.

[mykonian]

you know what's the easiest way to fuck up a large theme as scum?

Get into a theory discussion where you are wrong, but only just. Argue for pages. Nobody wants to read it.

And yes, threadshitting totally works as a tactic.

[mykonian]

Who's scum on Tammy's wagon:

snifit - dogmatic "guilty = lynch" thinking and thinks SKs will shoot randomly for little gain before getting lynched.

Acosmist - Dogmatic "guilty = lynch" thinking. But he's scum.

Kise - "The extra daykill really isn't needed. You guys need more confidence." (Scum)

Benmage - Is so gung-ho that Tammy should be lynched that he's actively putting forth reasons why she shouldn't be night-killed. Either a shitty town-cop or a pretty good lyncher.

AngryPidgeon - Lots of shitty arguments then (Post 1921) where he looks for his out off the wagon. Smart enough to know better. Poss. scum.

pidgey - Thinks Tammy is a ditzy maverick.

mykonian - No reasoning given. Just wants to shut down talk at this point. Poss. scum.

WrathChild - Dogmatic "guilty = lynch" thinking. Possibly illiterate.

Acosmist, Kise, AngryPidgeon and/or Mykonian are suspects regardless of how Tammy flips.

The reasoning is given quite a bit earlier. I hopped off at some point and went back.

[mykonian]

yeah, I wasn't at my strongest yesterday. Should have filtered a bit more. Sorry about that, I was working a bit sleep deprived.

Benmage is right. If tammy was town, she'd have shot him. Tammy however in her posts already gave up. She claims she'll act town motivated, which I believe, I guess. The problem is still that she makes the last choice (as she did with thadmiral here), which wasn't the choice of a majority of town. I'm doubtful that she'll act like a second lynch.

If it's indeed day-sk/one scumteam, we should lynch her today, or in two days, to end up at a uneven number. After that, the fact that the SK is gone simply means more mislynches for us as there are less townies getting shot.

I think I'm taking the 50% shot at scum tammy. I don't think you'll hit that 50% if we give you two more kills.

vote tammy

[mykonian]

shooting townies?

[mykonian]

So I am LA til Monday and probably will not get to fully catch-up until the start of the week. That being said I have questions that I would like answers to while I do so.

Benmage

Is this another one of your questionable “fake-Cop” results? I know you have faked results in the past with variable effects (Godfather lynches to disasters) and I’m not in the mood for backtracking from you after the fact.

Please commit 100% (with no backing out) that you have a Guilty investigation result on Tammy.

Who did you replace again? I do hope I had a scumread on them, would suit me perfectly. Because in that case you are continuing a trend for that slot.

[mykonian]

zor. Bleh. Didn't have a read on that, I think. Well, you are scum on your own then, I guess.

[mykonian]

So I am LA til Monday and probably will not get to fully catch-up until the start of the week. That being said I have questions that I would like answers to while I do so.

Benmage

Is this another one of your questionable “fake-Cop” results? I know you have faked results in the past with variable effects (Godfather lynches to disasters) and I’m not in the mood for backtracking from you after the fact.

Please commit 100% (with no backing out) that you have a Guilty investigation result on Tammy.

Who did you replace again? I do hope I had a scumread on them, would suit me perfectly. Because in that case you are continuing a trend for that slot.

The bolded, literally the first thing he does in this game, is discreding the cop. The entire sentence is there to make his claim doubtful, while there hasn't been anything in this game that suggest benmage is lying... to the point that the guilty actually confirms she is guilty.

[mykonian]

shooting townies?

Is that worse than lynching townies?

Yes. We could have avoided that. And I don't trust her to shoot accurately.

The game was balanced on her shooting townies. If we lynch her now we take our advantage of a kill against us less. I'd be happy with that. She killed one scum. Great. If she shoots 2 more town now (which is the next point where we should lynch her, tomorrow we can't have this discussion as lynching her would put us on an even number, effectively costing us a lynch), and hits two more town, she's about being random, not against us, not in favor of us (given that mods make about a quarter of the game scum on average).

[mykonian]

Why is the second scumteam theory so entrenched in you? There is zero evidence to support it. Occam's razor says SK.

Im saying its possible. The only reason Tammy has ANY reason to not just throw in the towel by now is if she is on a team. And Wrath Child is looking like an obvious Tammy buddy.

It's improbable. Unless you want to claim some role related knowledge, I'm not making plans around unfounded wild theories.

And how does one "throw in the towel" in a mafia game?

One shoots oneself.

[mykonian]

I don't mind that this day hasn't ended yet, but I'm not coping very well with reading about 3 pages each time I come back here.

[mykonian]

Also, someone check the math for me. Myk is concerned about being put at evens. Actually lynching me today keeps you at evens.

Hey, it does.

Cool. Lets have this whole discussion again tomorrow.

vote pidgey

I didn't forget about you!

[mykonian]

I don't like that Mykonian ignored my inquiry.

Likely skipped over it. Could you link it?

[mykonian]

I just asked if you were scum.

So I mean it wasn't a 100% serious question, but typically people respond to it.

Bullet points on why Pidgey is scum?

Why did you decide to hop off the Tammy wagon?

Read on KK?

It was a oneliner. Sorry. Im not scum, pidgey is scum for the terrible benmage vote, for being amrun's replacement and for the mess throughout the tammy/benmage thing. Because he made a mess there.

Because, theoretically, it's better to have an uneven number in town. It's basically a free shot tomorrow if we leave her alive today (as we'd need a confirmed townie to fill that superfluous slot at the last day or no lynch then). It's a simple optimization.

I liked him early on. He's a bit too ragey lately, but I don't know how that affects allignment. It looks bad.

[mykonian]

Pidgey, I'm going to give you the benefit of doubt, but that's about it. I really don't like that amrun flaked, it's a bad sign.

thanks pidgey, first post after you had replaced in.

Any more strawmans you want to set up now?

[mykonian]

Such a solid piece of evidence, the Amrun thing! The rest of your case is....

he rages lately

, voted Benmage, and he made "a mess".

Damn if only making my homework was this easy.

no, that KK.

and your benmage vote sucked. Homework was that easy.

[mykonian]

"OH YOU TOOK 6 MINUTES? SCUM!!!"

Anyway this is a better vote for now

vote: Benmage

For the record. Throwaway vote on a protown dude. No reasoning, no nothing, just a place for your vote.

[mykonian]

uhm, he did not show any reasons. He got saved by the bell, as afterwards the benmage claimed and he got to post about that, and that was easy. The reasons given before consists of "how can he call me scum? He must be scum".

Just as pidgey's reaction to my vote, now I read it again. I vote him, and he pulls the same thing he's done every time: "you called me town, what happened". I wonder where he gets that from.

But I'm ok with you showing your partner Kise.

[mykonian]

Yeah no reasoning.

OH WAIT. Is this post 1156?

"Not really liking benmage at all since he is clinging to a so easy target as myself, I mean how in the fuck can he have a scumread on me lol.

Amrun was pretty much not a big factor either. Actually im voting this person for now i was waiting to catch up completely but this is a good old vote for now!"

Or is it my imagination?

Even beyond what it is saying, which is already a poor reason to vote, the "lol" at the end of the sentence makes it even worse. And this is what pidgey vote on? Come on guys.

[mykonian]

mastin already called us as team, catch up. May as well try to keep the sinking ship afloat.

It's just a bs move. Tammy is L-1 and you worry about the numbers game that no one else is even thinking about. BS cop out. Get called on it.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p4470852

smh

Everybody cares about the numbers game. That's why people are talking about "double day" and "kill the sk now so we have more lynches". The fact is that lynching tammy now simply is the worse strategy, regardless of where you stand in the debate above.

If people didn't care about the numbers game, we'd have lynched Tammy 30 pages ago.

Do you have more bullshit kise? Because you are trying really hard to get as much in the thread as possible, as far as I can see.

[mykonian]

ok, try to follow me here, it's something basic. Lets try it with an example. Suppose this game wasn't this large, but 6 players were left right now. The question is the same, do we lynch tammy or not. If we lynch tammy there, we go into the night, scum kill someone, next day we are at 4. You can assume if the game isn't over, that it's mylo. What do you do in mylo? You no lynch, or you have a (semi) confirmed player. In the end, you lynched tammy, and you get a lynch at mylo/lylo. 2 in total.

Suppose you lynched someone else, and let tammy kill the next day. Those are two kills already. Then you lynch tammy in the 3p lylo. End result: a lynch, a kill, and a lynch on tammy. You gained a opportunity by making sure that the moment you lynch tammy is when the town ends up uneven at the start of the day. Two shots at that last mafia are better then just one.

And even if tammy just shoots someone you didn't really want dead, you didn't lose a thing over the case where you no lynch in mylo. So the best strategy is to let her shoot once more, see what happens, and then have the debate again if you want to keep her alive. There is no negative side to her killing once more, as we don't lose a lynch with it.


@benmage. We can pretend we can. You don't have the info either that tammy perhaps kills scum tomorrow. Worst case scenario, a town we didn't like in the first place gets killed, and in no way we lost a lynch because of it.



Oh, before I forget, the whole thing is assuming there's one scumteam, and tammy is a Day-SK. Which doesn't seem so outlandish to me.

[mykonian]

and I know thinking is hard, but you should try it sometime, rather then blindly following rules you don't understand.

[mykonian]

VOTE: Tammy

you don't get this game. You claim PGO. That means you have something to prove.

Exactly what have you done today?

[mykonian]

yeah yeah, pidgey, we know now.

apart from me, Jason, elscouta, zabriel and per, do you have any reads?

[mykonian]

Suppose you lynched someone else, and let tammy kill the next day. Those are two kills already. Then you lynch tammy in the 3p lylo. End result: a lynch, a kill, and a lynch on tammy. You gained a opportunity by making sure that the moment you lynch tammy is when the town ends up uneven at the start of the day. Two shots at that last mafia are better then just one.

Equation is flawed. You have to factor in unpredictable variables such as life-saving claims, misshots, and innocent results that Ben shouldn't give out unless the doc is dead.

In either scenario confirmed townies have the same value.

Don't try to bullshit theory. It's so obvious, as maths is hardly a subjective thing.

[mykonian]

she claimed SK. So yeah, I'll assume that for the time being, tyvm.

And you spend a lot of time accusing the people who are voting you.

[mykonian]

unless I see tricks I'm not going to assume them on day 2.

[mykonian]

what trick did I assume?

We had no kill n1. We have a claimed day sk. I assume a single scumteam and a day SK. What exactly are you trying to say here?

[mykonian]

MoI, I heard stuff about you, and I expected more from you tbh. I'm pretty sure I've considered every possible way this could go, posts about it are all over the place in between normal play.

The fact that Tammy is a claimed SK puts this beyond "hurr durr there is a guilty we lynch it". It allows you to think for once. I suggest you try it, it seems thinking makes you more clever.

[mykonian]

MoI, I heard stuff about you, and I expected more from you tbh. I'm pretty sure I've considered every possible way this could go, posts about it are all over the place in between normal play.

The fact that Tammy is a claimed SK puts this beyond "hurr durr there is a guilty we lynch it". It allows you to think for once. I suggest you try it, it seems thinking makes you more clever.

Oh myk it's so cute that you

1. Pretend we never played together before (btw, Everone's a Critic as a reminder )and thus you are just going off second-hand knowledge.
2. Think that leashing a Serial Killer is a good play ever for Town.
3. Think that such a weak-handed insult isn't anything but humorous.

And most importantly (so I'm bolding it)

4. make this post which speaks to me in the clear voice of "You are stupid Town" when you've been calling me scum. Funny how your posting doesn't match your claimed read.

Number 4, for the record, is why Myk is scum regardless of Tammy's flip.

That's two years ago, I don't remember my games that well, I fear. And since there isn't actually a downside, I see no reason that you wouldn't let tammy kill. Unless you are worried you get shot, naturally. In that case it's perfectly safe to take your approach "you ALWAYS lynch a cop guilty, don't think, just do it."

[mykonian]

Ah, and there it is. I wonder when scum would step in to call pidgey low hanging fruit.

Took you long enough MoI. Nice bit of leverage to call there to call me scum again for making a case on Pidgey.

vote MoI

[mykonian]

So you unvoted a Cop Guilty that you aren’t disputing because it may put you on Evens. In a Large Theme game with 18 players left. When possible protections may over the course of the many days to come mess with the numbers? Nope.jpg. Add in that you seem to explicitly know that only 1 Scum Nightkill exists (since your assessment is driven by that as a fact) and I think the obvious result is scum.

This. IIRC Mykonian, didn't you compare this to a 6p lylo scenario >.>. This is not an even remotely compelling reason to hop off Tammy and now you are prancing around as if you wanted Tammy alive the whole time...all because of this?

I've been on and off the wagon for a couple of times already now. That kind of suggest I'm a bit ambivalent on the whole debate.

So yeah, that quite does it.

That's two years ago, I don't remember my games that well, I fear. And since there isn't actually a downside, I see no reason that you wouldn't let tammy kill. Unless you are worried you get shot, naturally. In that case it's perfectly safe to take your approach "you ALWAYS lynch a cop guilty, don't think, just do it."

Look at this response. Look carefully at it.

I'll translate for those who don't speak scum -

1. Ooops, got caught with my hand in the cookie jar in my offhanded smear effort that backfired. Lulz, just laugh it off.

2. I'll just continue to assert there is no downside and pretend that just handwaves away the many already brought up downsides (shortening the game, allowing SK / Mafia Tammy to go rogue later, no viable argument for why you don't lynch 100% scum, lack of viable proof that Double Days in non Vanilla actually benefit Town, that the 'numbers argument' isn't pure crap).

3. Ignores me, his scum read, calling him scum and doesn't address the fact he is posting towards me as Town not scum (Cognitive Dissonance ho!).
4. Oh, he's worried about being shot fluff mudslinging.

You should have known better than to wake the Dragon Myk. Now I'm going to have your scummy neck in hemp tomorrow ASAP!

Pretty sure I asked for a single shot. Stop strawmanning MoI.



But I'm pretty comfortable with this whole situation. There's always that moment where scum replaces in where they have trouble to get a feel for the game. So people make PBPA's, go with theory analysis, or they pick a target. MoI had tammy as a nice first choice, but since I so gracefully offered to be a target, he accepted. Waking the dragon MoI? Sure thing, I've been in this position before. Has to do with playstyle, there's always something to find in my voting pattern.

Anyway, for who do not see what waking the dragon means: last couple of posts MoI just ensures he discredits every single point I made and makes it look scum. Even if you don't care about us,

there isn't a single scum who makes 5 scumpoints in every single post

. Meaning what MoI is doing isn't scumhunting, he's trying to get people on a bandwagon, arguing for a lynch by showing an overwhelming amount of information that I'm scum. That that happens with strawmans is no problem. Honesty isn't the goal. This dragon isn't there to play nice, he's there to argue people to death.

[mykonian]

oh, btw, who can spot Mastins towntell in post 2142?

[mykonian]

1. I’ve already mined out Scumykonian so pretending I’m not wanting to scum-hunt is just plain wrong.
2. You keep playing this balancing act where you are trying to assert it is scummy to want to lynch on a Cop Guilty while asserting that you believe Benmage is Town and believe his results. Frankly I don’t quite get that but … heck …

I didn’t get your strong defense of scum in Scummies 2012 either.

And there's the same bullshit you pulled with benmage as well. So, uhm, who else do you think is stupid/pulls pointless stunts so we can get that out of the way right now? Or are you going to do such a thing each time someone says something useful?

[mykonian]

Lol this counterwagon stinks so much of scum.

Its easy guys just crossreference whonjumped out of tammy wagon into mine AND whomvoted for the first town lynch youll get around 3 names, 2 of them will be scum. Im ok with my lynch since this day sucks anyway its just people slapping each other with their little hands talking about what to do with tammy. A lynch is needednandit it has to be obvious town me then what da yah know. Just please
1. Kill myk tomorrow tammy
2. Lynch tammy tomorrow people
3. Readmmymfucking reads especially check that crossreference im talking about.

"he rages too much" says jason who has modded two games ive raged like 10x time whatni have in this game. Prob scum, now that i remember that.

G G.

Pedit: go and fuck yourself mastin, read my fucking iso and then check jason. Call me scum if you want, jut not useless. Idiot.

Get useful then. I want to have some justification for the buddying tell I'm currently using to vote MoI. Kinda needs you to be town etc.

[mykonian]

I can sum up MoI's play in a single sentence. Heck, with a single word when boiled down:
Discrediting.

MoI isn't hunting for scum. He's trying to discredit players. Not to lynch scum, not to look for who's scum on or off the Tammy wagon, not trying to catch up and make sense of the game. He's specifically trying to discredit players, to make people doubt their status as town.
It's the same thing WC's doing.
It's the same thing Kise is doing.
Heck, it's the same thing Aco's doing.

Anyone up for a flashwagon on MoI?

I'll be right here waiting for you.

[mykonian]

Myk you cant seriously not say im being unuseful WTF.

Ive been actively participating, giving original reads, and being overall answering whatever is asked out of me and taking stances and reads.

Again, think im scum, but STFU about usefulness.

on your own wagon. Kinda having trouble seeing what your motivation there is, as you can probably understand. Just show me you are town, k? Try it, it's fun!

[mykonian]

Well we have 2 days and I haven't even really read Kise.
I might read him but he's like the only one that likes me in the thread apperantly so I hope im not biased.
But the case on me is still So Bad.

Saying lol at the end of a sentence and raging. AHAHHAHA.

Pedit: I dunno i think ive said enough reads not only regarding my wagon. Not my fault my wagon is mostly made of scum HAHAHA.

BENMAGE VOTE, AMRUN.

LOL RAAAAWR


Remember that part where I asked you to show you were town? That didn't mean repeat the case on you while leaving the benmage vote out and provide no new analysis, in case you didn't get it. It meant: "get going and try to scumhunt a bit"

[mykonian]

well, pidgey, you were really not at your best there, but I agree, shouldn't have called you scum for that. You'd be scum if you had seen the situation with a vig before.

[mykonian]

Tl /Dr ... spam spam

WE HAVE 2? DAYS TO DEADLINE AND HAVENT AGREED ON 1 LYNCH.

HOW WILL WE EVER AGREE ON A DOUBLE LYNCH.

Lets be honest, we wasted a lot of time on the tammy at the start of the day.

And two days is enough to get a lynch, DON'T PANIC

[mykonian]

hey, see, I knew you wouldn't forget about me! I almost thought you would switch to Mastin there for a second.

Hey, you called us both scum! You are the best!

[mykonian]

I really don't feel like reading page 90. Wall after wall after wall. Not in the mood.

[mykonian]

1) WTF is going on here? I'd be happy to lynch Mastin at this point if we didn't ALREADY HAVE A GUILTY. For christs sake people, this is lunacy!

2)

Unofficial VC:

Tammy - 8 (snifit, Kise, Benmage, pidgey, WrathChild, MagnaofIllusion, Acosmist, AngryPidgeon)
MagnaofIllusion - 4 (mykonian, mastin2, Kublai Khan, Elscouta)
WrathChild - 2 (Tammy, PeregrineV)
pidgey - 2 (zabriel, jasonT1981)
Acosmist - 1 (Yates)

Not voting - Nero Cain

Nero Cain is V/LA.

With 18 alive it takes 10 to lynch.

The deadline for Day 2 is 3 PM EST on November 15, 2012.

That means that

mykonian, mastin2, Kublai Khan, Elscouta, PeregrineV, zabriel, jasonT1981 and Yates

have a decision to make. Lynch Tammy (L-2) or no lynch. No one else is going to get the support in 22 hours.

Mykonian, Mastin, KK, Peregrine, Zabriel, Jason, seem to want to leash
Yates prefers Tammy to no lynch
Elscota is flip floppy

that's somewhat an easy choice, and I don't know if I'll be here tomorrow. I feel like shit.

vote tammy

. Oh well, tomorrow we can analyse where scum sat.

[mykonian]

myk suggested that the cop be shot down quick. Out of everyone, HE was the person pressuring Tammy to shoot there and then. The sad emoticon in the last quote looks to me like an expression of disappointment that Tammy was not including Ben as one of her DK options. The mafia would have liked it very much to have her shoot the cop, lynch her, and kill someone else overnight - group of Yates/PV/zab/snif were absent, with the latter two posting not long after ThAd flipped while also not offering anything big to say. I ignored myk's quickhammer D1 but after the bizarre and conflicting behavior yesterday, that's the nail in the coffin. The switch for why he wanted to keep her alive made zero sense, but according to him other people agreed with his number fidgeting. It kept him out of mastin's crosshairs.

Tammy was my townread going out of day 1. That helps it make sense, I think.

And I think you could find a couple more switches on and off tammy. You might want to include them.

[mykonian]

It's not making sense. The last thing I would do as scum would be to tell the SK to kill the cop for me.

[mykonian]

Selfmeta. Confirm that at will. It's just not even close to who I am.

[mykonian]

and before I forget,

vote MoI

[mykonian]

nah, MoI isn't supposed to suck. It's mostly a continuation from yesterday. IIRC we voted each other then as well.

[mykonian]

I'm not so much into the insulting thing. I think he made himself rather obvious as scum the way he played. He discredited people (benmage, KK) for no reason, based on stuff they had done. He "cleverly" inserted this at points where saying such a thing might have an effect. And I guess you could call it OMGUS, but the way he argued towards me was decidedly scummy. I know how I used to play scum, and picking apart every post of a person and saying something scummy about each sentence does tend to get someone lynched in time. It's just not something a town would ever do, because it's completely unbelievable that scum would show themselves with every single sentence they make.

[mykonian]

I'm pretty sure we never want to lynch mastin.

[mykonian]

acosmist, would you mind doing some scumhunting? You are rather busy with not being lynched. If you want to be a thorn, you have to make people nervous.

[mykonian]

acosmist, would you mind doing some scumhunting? You are rather busy with not being lynched. If you want to be a thorn, you have to make people nervous.

Where am I not doing scumhunting?

And I sure as heck am busy not being lynched! So busy I have

ZERO VOTES

! It's hard to be this busy not doing something that has no chance of happening!

Look at you, not posting anything game-relevant. You are special in the head.

Hey, sue me for wanting more from a day 1 PGO claim. Just win this game for me, will you?

I know I'm not the nr1 town. So I'd like someone I can sheep, tyvm.

[mykonian]

mastin, i'm puzzled by your 2278. You claim to be a super mafia hunter, and you definitely want to take the town leadership or whatever. It is very clear that you wanted him to hang yesterday or today. Given how your posts dripped of "you are locked in a 1v1 with me", i'd consider that you believe you have a reasonable chance of success. However, 2278 gives the impression that you would have satisfied yourself with forcing a MoI claim so that it'd come to hurt him afterwards.

Yeah, meet mastin. He's a nice guy and all, but talks a bit bigger then he is. Just get used to it. It does make him somewhat easier to read when you know who he is.

[mykonian]

the problem is a bit that some people think it's relevant for scumhunting, like scum would be on one side or another. There are games where scum leave the vig alive because they think he'll shoot town more often then scum. I think with a 3rd party here, it shifts even more. To me it indeed looks like we wasted a day's worth of pages on something irrelevant. I guess you could see who contributed most to the discussion and call them scummy, just on the basis that scum find it easier to talk about theory then actual scumhunting. A real shame that Mastin is town, or that tell would actually work :/

[mykonian]

and another post just so MoI's posts get a bit more body. Wouldn't want him to lack posts he can quote.

[mykonian]

don't think I want a catch up post from you. Tell me who you are, because you are a big blind spot for me.

[mykonian]

don't think I want a catch up post from you. Tell me who you are, because you are a big blind spot for me.

LOL are you really asking me for a claim?

No. Your person. Not your role. What are you thinking, what is your age, do you love your mother, everything you want to tell us, basically. Just who you are.

[mykonian]

Why is the 1v1 a good thing? Please elaborate on your position and reasoning.

I don't speak about the fact that a 1v1 is good or bad.

Of course it's dumb

Come on. I make a point about doing short post, you can try to read them.

I have no clue about the mykonian case and i don't have the time nor the will to read enough to get a good opinion on it.

Now answer my question.

I can give you the short lines. The time after the claim of benmage, I posted a lot and was of the opinion that tammy was the town of the two. I stood out because of that. After the claim, I was the only one taking the position that it really didn't matter that much in general if you keep a SK alive or not: regardless of it, you gain lynches just because you cought her. When tammy pointed out I had made a counting error for some theory stuff, people didn't understand the numbers, and hence didn't understand my final shift off the wagon.

And obviously, it's nice if someone is so clearly odd, to abuse that. I won't go so far to call everybody on my wagon scum. Experience rather suggests there are town there. Because, it's hardly the first time I stand out in a game. MoI goes a step beyond that though, and goes straight for rhetoric, so I'm rather confident in calling him scum for that.

[mykonian]

MoI, you claimed you'd 1v1 mastin tomorrow, but you are ignoring him now. Why?

I don't speak about the fact that a 1v1 is good or bad. Of course it's dumb. But claiming you'll go in a 1v1 then retracting your statement is the whole different thing.

Why did you claim you'd go in 1v1 THEN retract your statement.

I'd lose less time if you stopped dodging my question and blatantly misreading my posts.

You'd fucking win time if you stopped giving him more opportunities. Just vote the scum and be done with it.

[mykonian]

Short MoI case Yates.

I'm not so much into the insulting thing. I think he made himself rather obvious as scum the way he played. He discredited people (benmage, KK) for no reason, based on stuff they had done. He "cleverly" inserted this at points where saying such a thing might have an effect. And I guess you could call it OMGUS, but the way he argued towards me was decidedly scummy. I know how I used to play scum, and picking apart every post of a person and saying something scummy about each sentence does tend to get someone lynched in time. It's just not something a town would ever do, because it's completely unbelievable that scum would show themselves with every single sentence they make.

[mykonian]

I needed a good night's sleep to figure out how to deal with this:

Spoiler:

I can't tell whether it is Stupid Town or Stupid Scum. It's stupid regardless because

Nero Cain is a proven Neighborizor

. Aka someone who targets people at Night and establishes a QT with them. So as long as Nero has a living body (or two) to speak with at Night

he can definately test Acosmist by targetting him and explicitly telling his QT members he is doing so

.

If he lives (and thus Neighborizores Acosmist) Acosmist is clearly lying.
If he dies then whoever is alive afterwards can convey this to the thread.

The only flaw to the plan, of course, is if he Neighborizes scum who choose not to expose the information. But based on Benmage's kill flavor I'm guessing each death source has its own unique flavor that isn't duplicated.

Not to mention we have an unclaimed Messager who could also test out this theory

(telling the person they message Night 3 that they intend to test Acosmist Night 4). And any other roles that might be able to test this.

So - are you stupid Town or stupid Scum who are not thinking things through?

So let me get this straight - you were

against

letting Tammy [who you were convinced was an anti-Town role] testing Acosmist's claim BUT you have no problems allowing two confirmed TOWN roles testing the claim?? Would you please explain to me how

ZAB

is the one being dumb in his game plan?

No, you don't need sleep for things like this. I see this so often, in every kind of game. The more excuses you have to make for someone, the more likely he's scum. Simple as that.

This game also gets a lot simpler if you vote with every case.

Can Elscouta replace out since he's said he's not going to play the game? That'd be fantastic.

Also, seriously, zab is scum.

I don't know whether mykonian is scum.

Yes you do. I'm not. The only reason you are even thinking about it is because MoI is having a crusade and I stood on Pidgeys toes. That happens, I have big feet.

[mykonian]

I knew you didn't forget about me. I was a bit worried there.

btw, I wonder about this, if I make a huge sentence moi and put your name in the middle of it, does that mean I get quoted?

[mykonian]

Third we have the opinion that Mykonian is an ‘easy lynch’. How is someone who joined Mafiascum in 2008 and clearly isn’t a VI an easy lynch? That fails to make any logical sense. So this is just trying to smear my scum-hunting on mykonian in any way he can.

This one is easy to show. I get mislynched often and early.

I'm not an idiot. I know what I say is making sense. I am a very logic person. Further, when I get correctly lynched as scum, it's late in the game. I know how to avoid lynches if that's the goal of my game. The one time I got PGO, I knew how to be a nightkill target, when that was the goal of the game.

When I'm trying to work out who's scum and who's town, when selfpreservation is not the goal of the game, but making the right decisions and creating opportunities for scum to mess up is, I'm a lynch target. Because I don't care that I stand out. Up to a point I enjoy it, because I know how people react to me, while scum might not know how I play. And before you mention it: standing out and getting reactions is different from playing scummy intentionally. I don't make plays that affect my side negatively.

If you are a dragon, I think I'm an elephant. I'm not subtle or refined, I'm a big target, and generally when I fall, I make a big thump.

[mykonian]

I'm losing you guys again. I can't make sense out of these posts, I don't understand what you are talking about.

[mykonian]

1. Do you and Eloscuta have some relationship that obvious because he didn’t appear in any of the player-lists above? Is he an alt? I’m very curious as to why you answered the question for him before he could.
2. The results above are a mixed bag. Elemental Madness where you replaced in and were lynched the same Day. Micro 65 to some degree also supports it (except for the fact that being lynched as Town in that set-up doesn’t NECESSARILY remove you from the game so it isn’t a pure Apples to Apples to here). Meanwhile both Micro 1 and Newbie 1282 (and yes, I am factoring in that it is a Newbie to this discussion) suggest you professed meta isn’t accurate. Micro 20 is a push (you were lynched Day 2 when the game ended Day 3 … not exactly ‘early’ in context). Is there any other evidence that comes to mind that really makes your self-professed meta really viable?
3. What does the fact that according to Mod Vote-Counts you haven’t drawn more than 1 vote until Day 3 say in regards to your “I’m lynchbait when Town, I survive long term when scum”?

1. I don't know him. Pretty sure I have never played with him.
2. it is when you compare it to the scumgames. Further, I'm sure there are more games. It's something that has been with me from 2008 Micro 65 is the most extreme example obviously, but it's a clear case. I step out to make a case, to get things moving, and it makes me a target. If people want a quick read to confirm it, that would work.
3. That yesterday was dominated by another discussion. Without that, the wagon would have seen 3 or 4 votes (depending on kise).

[mykonian]

Hardly, dear. Less then a day ago I posted, this game is just a pain to sift the useful stuff from the useless. Like, I really don't have a clue why we are talking about acosmists role here and what it implies. And that has gone for 3 pages now. Further, lurking is for people who don't like the game. I guess you could be right that I'm not liking this one, but I like mafia in general. I think.

Game is very simple for acosmist. You wait till day 4 or something, and you make up the balance. Are you sure he's town? Let him stay till endgame. Aren't you sure? Lynch him and dont take the risk. The earlier you make this decision the more likely you have a mislynch, so give the guy the time to prove his allignment.

You are wrong. First - Acosmist likely isn't PGO. Second - even if he were PGO I don't think his powers would have affected a day action. Third - proof that he likely isn't a PGO is right in his role claim when he hedges by saying:

Are you this stupid. Tammy was A SERIAL KILLER. As such her wincon requires her to survive as long as possible. You know what players with Wincons like that do? They don’t take stupid chances. And your reasoning above, as show, is stupid. Tammy wasn’t going anywhere near Acosmist because it could mean instant loss if he is a PGO. Your conclusions mean little since it was Tammy making the decisions.

As to your reasons -

1. This is just you saying “I don’t think so, hurr durr”
2. Same as 1.
3. Same as 2

And after Benmage and KK, Yates is the next in line. Thank you for showing us he's town. Keep it up, little dragon.

[mykonian]

I wonder why you switched wagons MoI.

[mykonian]

I wonder why you switched wagons MoI.

If you were Town and needed to scum-hunt you'd be reading posts and seen the explanation attached nicely to my vote for your partner.

But you aren't so you just fluff post like this.

No, this is a bit the point. I saw that reasoning and the weird thing is that you call us both scum. I'm the larger wagon at the moment.

Did it lose momentum already? Are you just looking for a vote switch so it doesn't seem you are tunneling too much? I don't get it. You can give reasonings but there is simply no logical reason for that switch either if you are scum or town unless there's a reason you aren't telling me.

[mykonian]

So it is about momentum. You could just have said that in stead of making a huge post out of it. Now tell me, why the hell do you think it's a good idea to vote someone else just because there is more interest for it lately?

And now it's an active lurk. Yeah... can't tell me I'm not posting, I guess.

[mykonian]

Lol! So this is why we have to believe you are town. Because that post is hardly scumhunting. The people you call out, you don't even suspect. But you really wanted to tell us how active you are while you replaced in.

Now, I wonder, how much of your arguing actually gets read, MoI? Because most of it is rather pointless and just calls everybody but "the dragon" stupid.

[mykonian]

so in stead of responding to anything said, you call people scum for what they say to you.

I wonder how long it takes before we can lynch you. Can't be too long, it's getting really fucking obvious.

[mykonian]

PIDGEY, DEAR, WHERE ARE YOU?

Was I wrong about your vote on benmage? I see all kinds of patterns here.

[mykonian]

yeah, I don't.

And I'm calling him scum btw.

[mykonian]

PIDGEY, DEAR, WHERE ARE YOU?

Was I wrong about your vote on benmage? I see all kinds of patterns here.

"Pidgey - please forget about how I called you obvious scum and made all sorts of posts about you. I now want you on my side so I'm going to mea-culpa so my partner's lynch doesn't get more traction since in your last reads post you said one of me and Elo was likely scum."

Does anyone NOT see this?

aren't you a cute little demagogue.

can't anyone see that?

[mykonian]

I'm a sucker for people who buddy me

[mykonian]

yeah, I don't.

And I'm calling him scum btw.

You called him scum yesterday for his Benmage vote.

So you are calling him scum by saying "Was I wrong about your Benmage vote"?

Nope.jpg

Thanks for keeping your 'low hanging fruit" scum-read on him!

Always there to please you!

BTW, you should be happy. The next time he posts he's going to vote me unless he reads this. Then I don't know.

[mykonian]

I said town.

If you can't read, why are you writing so much? You are making this thread completely unreadable.

[mykonian]

*click*

so that's why you were talking about your post count a couple of pages ago. It all makes sense now.

Keep spamming dude. Maybe it helps you but I sure hope people see what you are doing.

[mykonian]

it has nothing to do with understanding that it's a scumtell. I know it's a scumtell because it works. And I'm far from an exception to that.

[mykonian]

MoI needs to die if he ever mislynches

Uhm, lets not. This is bad on so many levels.

[mykonian]

it starts with the obvious thing, which even you can see, which is setting up lynches.

Then, if that's not bad enough, its on someone who's suspected now. I really can't see why you would want moi to have more time. Even more, you are completely happy to let him lead a lynch. If he "proves" to be scum to you, which is really awkward when it's on if he lynched right or wrong, you are going to lynch him.

Know what the really annoying thing is? You keep being a disappointment but with only one real lynch till now I don't want to lynch you with that claim. So make my fucking day, because honestly I want to believe you are town with that claim, and try to keep shitposting to a minimum, k?

[mykonian]

Why wouldn't I care about your Mykonian read? I always ask my scumreads about each other.

what makes this game special then?

vote pidgeon

[mykonian]

Why wouldn't I care about your Mykonian read? I always ask my scumreads about each other.

what makes this game special then?

vote pidgeon

What?

"I do it every game.". The only reason would tell us is because you are purposefully sticking to your meta. Guess who like to do that.

[mykonian]

last point is wrong as well, I hopped on because of the deadline.

[mykonian]

hey, dog. Don't worry too much about that activity post by MoI. He's trying to tell us he's very cool and active and we should think he's town.

[mykonian]

"hey dog, you should like me and vote MoI" is a closer representation of the truth.

[mykonian]

Why wouldn't I care about your Mykonian read? I always ask my scumreads about each other.

what makes this game special then?

vote pidgeon

What?

"I do it every game.". The only reason would tell us is because you are purposefully sticking to your meta. Guess who like to do that.

LOL. The tell you are referring to is scum players leaving people to fill in the blanks that they are town. But, Im town and I didn't say "I always ask my scumreads about each other; just check my townmeta!" or "I always ask my scumreads about each other; even as scum!" which would have been scummy as shit. I implied its a null-tell (and why wouldn't it be for anyone).

Nice construe though.

I _guess_ you could argue that I am implying Im town by saying I have scumreads. But that would be hilarious.

No, that's not the tell. Again, I might suck, but as moi stated, I started playing this game 4 years ago. I do know my theory by now. If you were town, you wouldn't have to tell us you always do this or that. Just doesn't make sense.

[mykonian]

hey, dog. Don't worry too much about that activity post by MoI. He's trying to tell us he's very cool and active and we should think he's town.

"Hey dog, you should like me and buddy with me because you are voting my partner. I don't want him lynched because then I'm totally fucked. I'm going to continue to do nothing but active lurk because, you know, I'm scum"

"hey dog, you should like me and vote MoI" is a closer representation of the truth.

How about you both leave the interpreting of people's posts that mention me to, you know, the person concerned with them. (aka me)

Uhm, no thank you. I want him lynched and he doesn't want to die. So if he can help it he'll strawman what I'm saying. Just check what's being said, it's rather obvious.

[mykonian]

Ok Elscouta. Go ISO me. I gave you my bullet points.

And look at that bullshit ^.

"Im so good at mafia. Im better than you". -Scummykonian.

Pedit: Cheery is town.

What makes you think you can tell me what tell I'm using? Has very little to do with how good I'm at this game.

It's as if I accuse you of OMGUS and you state that you totally did not bandwagon: it makes no sense at all.

[mykonian]

Uhm, no thank you. I want him lynched and he doesn't want to die. So if he can help it he'll strawman what I'm saying. Just check what's being said, it's rather obvious.

and he wants you dead and you're refusing to die, so your point is?

That we'll argue.

And it rather obvious who's more concerned about staying alive.

[mykonian]

and he's wrong beyond that. If we had to decide now, we should lynch him on the spot. A PGO that lives has to be beyond doubt. Acosmist has shown very little for that.

It could be said that he hasn't had enough time for that, I guess. This is only the second real day.

[mykonian]

and he's wrong beyond that. If we had to decide now, we should lynch him on the spot. A PGO that lives has to be beyond doubt. Acosmist has shown very little for that.

It could be said that he hasn't had enough time for that, I guess. This is only the second real day.

[mykonian]

I was ignoring Mykonian around the time he was making some of these scum-posts; Tammy/KK/Ben/Mastin were sponging all my attention and Mykonian v Pidgey was just a derp sideshow at the time. Plus he agreed with me at various points and that made me a little soft.

This post. Is awful.
Lack of content does not make someone scum. Mykonian, in his timeless wisdom, knows that.

More smearing

Ignoring MoI's actual reason for _lightly doubting_ Benmage's claim and calling him scummy for having a history with Benmage?
Mykonian, do you still think that was a scummy opinion for MoI to hold?

Since when is not saying a thing and not making a single ripple town?
And yes, I'm saying MoI is scummy for that statement about benmage. It literally makes no sense to say that if you are town.

There is so much wrong with this post.
1. Saying 'Im not scum' instead of 'No, Im town'. Its minor but it still more likely comes from scum.
2. His pidgey case is awful. Being 'ragey' is not a tell and CERTAINLY not for pidgey. And the 'I like him early on' is a subtle way of saying 'Im town and Im not just spewing BS. There are actual reasons for my pidgey read!'
3. Cannot keep his story straight about his Tammy opinion. Look at his posting and see the myriad of

reasons

BULLSHIT wrt to lynching or not lynching Tammy. First its evens/odds (which alone is shit and he should feel bad), then its "Tammy is a free shot"?? Then why only keep her alive for one day? Is it pro-town or not

I don't know why he did it, but the "Tammy is anti-town", "Ok maybe lets leave her alive for evens/odds", "Oh its a free shot" is inconsistent. Inconsistency itself isn't a tell, but if you look at the timeline of it all (MoI calling BS on the even/odds spec) and everything its shady as hell. The scum motivation there is lacking, but the town motivation is even more lacking. Its derp in a "Oh shit, my story is obviously fiction, better start throwing opinions out there and see what sticks.

No clue why people keep saying I have a townread on pidgey. And yes, I haven't been consistent in the argument about Tammy... your point here is?

[mykonian]

Doubting a claim for the purpose of doubting it is.

If you don't believe a day 2 cop claim, what do you believe? You are going to follow it up anyway (and MoI did). It's mudslinging.

I have not played with pidgey before (or at least I don't remember) and I'm not aware of any backpedaling.

[mykonian]

I'm not mad at you. But I'm very, very disappointed.

[mykonian]

Back, barely have to catch up! This game isn't moving forward, more people need to tell what they think

[mykonian]

You should think a bit more about that.

And I doubt it's you who has to say more.

[mykonian]

Also – I do greatly appreciate your ”Lining up lynches on MoI under Burden of Proficiency grounds is stupid” post where you basically acknowledge you know I’m not scum. A++, everyone should read.

How often are you going to call yourself town?

[mykonian]

Well i dont mean in like he voted for me, therefore scum.

I mean in like he voted for me when a wagon in me was starting to get some momentum (i had 3 votes?) and the key thing was his reasoning.

He said i was raging a lot.

A guy who has modded games i play in twice. Used that.

So yeah, he could be scum

I did not. I said this directly after you mentioned it the first time, and it's a response to a post who asks me about KK (I think).

So yes, I can see how that's not making sense to you.

[mykonian]

I just asked if you were scum.

So I mean it wasn't a 100% serious question, but typically people respond to it.

Bullet points on why Pidgey is scum?

Why did you decide to hop off the Tammy wagon?

Read on KK?

It was a oneliner. Sorry. Im not scum, pidgey is scum for the terrible benmage vote, for being amrun's replacement and for the mess throughout the tammy/benmage thing. Because he made a mess there.

Because, theoretically, it's better to have an uneven number in town. It's basically a free shot tomorrow if we leave her alive today (as we'd need a confirmed townie to fill that superfluous slot at the last day or no lynch then). It's a simple optimization.

I liked him early on. He's a bit too ragey lately, but I don't know how that affects allignment. It looks bad.

love ctrl-f.

[mykonian]

That was for jason.

You said i was scum because ??????? Then town because MoI was scum and was buddying me, and you later completely forgot you called me town when talking with AP and i guess now you are saying me and Moi are scum together but im not really sure.

Seriously guys vote for mykonian. Please

now this again. Where did I call you town. Just quote it. It doesn't exist. complete and utter bullshit. And the worst is, this has been said and shown a couple of times already. But it's as if I'm talking to a brick wall here.

[mykonian]

how is "needs you to be town but you aren't showing me" saying "pidgey is town".

Seriously.

[mykonian]

btw its encouraged SK tammy to shoot BENMAGE THE COP lol im bad at writing

That's kinda the big one, Thor665. Not once, not twice, not three times, but 5 different posts after Benmage claimed cop with a guilty on Tammy and Tammy claimed dayvig.

Meaning that if tammy was town, she should have shot the fakeclaiming cop. However, if she was scum, benmage flipping would confirm her as scum. If she were scum, she couldn't kill benmage, if she was town she had to.

I thought she was town.

[mykonian]

That makes decent sense to me, especially in light of her Day 1 shot.

Why would you presume scum would be willing to tank another of their players to kill the Vig though? Why not just shoot the Vig?

There was a no kill N1.

Day one play by tammy mostly. Couldn't believe she was scum either. She was my nr1 townread.

[mykonian]

People: MYK HAS FKN SKATED THE WHOLE DAY

Remember how cocky he was D2, calling everyone ignorant or scummy around? Sitting smirkly on the sidelines waiting for tammy to shoot the cop (

notice he never gave a target of choice himself, he was just there "Im waiting for you to shoot"

)

And today since cases and opinions have began piling up on him, he has gone to the shadows, only appearing here and there to throw a jab around.

Is no one baffled by how his votes suddenly stopped and changed? After he did.... what? What was his defense?

Yeez

Although I dont find elscouta to be super TOWN, lately I don't really feel him to be scum either, dont like this elscouta lynch, would prefer even zabriel over this.

Bolded is bull. I gave her a list of about 6 people to shoot from. I was one of the first to do it.

And I'm more the sick of you. This is the newest piece of bullshit that you could easily have found was wrong. It's there, in a post, clearly calling names who she should shoot. And this isn't the first example. "Myko called me town then suddenly voted me". Clear bullshit as well. If you are going to fling shit and hope it sticks, don't make it this obvious.

I don't care about a No lynch if you guys want to lynch anyone but pidgey.

vote pidgey

. See you at the 30th.

[mykonian]

tammy, more time doesn't help you! I can wait all night, but that doesn't mean I want to! Shoot to kill or burst out in tears and confess you are going to get shot pretty soon

Either that means you didn't get what I said, or you didn't want to listen to me. Lets be optimistic.

I can't read snifit. I'll be happy if he's gone, even though he's a null read.

The scumlist I posted somewhere is all better then a snifit kill, but everything else kinda drops below the bottom line of what's an acceptable kill for me.

I just went and ISOed you. The only one you said you'd "take as a good vig shot" was snifit.

How is that any good?

And AFTER she shot, you voted her immediatly the next day.

Dude i dont care if you are pissed because I got you for the right or wrong reasons, this isnt the first time I've countered your

"Oh no pidgey is a lier!!! i swear even if my ISO says otherwise!"

I already did it twice and you never have anything to say when i provide evidence.

Cant get more obvious

Hey, is that a list? And wait, you quoted that post... and guess what's literally 2 posts below that?

No. I'm just someone who has learned not to shout reads when you don't have them. And snifit falls in the category of players I've been wrong about more then I've been right.

Well get one. I mean I’m terrible at reading noobs but atleast I’m taking a stance. And if I’m wrong then I’m wrong. Avoiding taking a stance is terrible.

that's your opinion. I rather admit I have no clue then making up something I can't justify. I mean, I can make a case why he would be scum. I might even be able to make a case why he's town this game. And I'd have no clue which of both was the correct one.


I think someone asked who my suspects are. I forgot who did it. Currently they are among people as pidgey/mastin/zabriel/zoroaster/kise/nero/acosmist

uhm, this was mostly a proddodge, I'll try to actually read tomorrow.

Selective reading to the maximum.

vote Pidgey

. Yes, if you don't want to find a list of people I didn't mind being shot, then you aren't going to see it. Even if you quote the fucking post directing to it and the post 2 posts below that which actually has the list.

vote pidgey

Because apparently one vote wasn't enough.

[mykonian]

Forgot about this game T.T

Going to work, hopefully a post tonight or tomorrow. I have a shit ton of catching up to do.

Hi WC. Is tammy on your team?

Is Tammy Town?

Yeah anyways, don't lynch me because I just replaced in. There's no way I'm gonna read all these pages just to be lynched. Give me at least game one day to prove I'm not a waste.

I haven't read anything but the last page yet. Will catch up today (RL).

Posts of that slot at the start of day 2. I'll assume the first is just the truth as he flaked out right after. I think the second is a breadcrumb. That is a really convoluted way to call AP town, it might be just the breadcrumb that BC protected AP night one.

[mykonian]

why did you quote all that?

[mykonian]

Myk: You kinda mentioned your list casually after about 10 attempts to make the SK kill the cop. You didnt push anything on your list at all. Ok.

vote: Mykonian

How is it possible that your arguments for lynching me keep changing about every 5 pages? Oh I know. Because

you keep arguing in the face of evidence

. So we have had a couple of pages where your point was that I hadn't tried to make the daySK a second lynch. I did, it wasn't followed (and I was annoyed about that, can be found in the next posts) and suddenly your argument changes and it actually didn't matter.

Because I wanted her to shoot to cop. I'd say we've had that one before, haven't we? If Tammy was town, she should have shot the cop. If she wasn't, she couldn't possibly shoot the cop without giving away everything. I thought she was town.

Do you recognize that? Because that was why you switched arguments 10 pages ago.

You have had about 2 days now that all you do is argue to lynch me. I remember how it started out. You replaced into this game, in a scummy slot, and I made a post which stated that I'd give you the opportunity to redeem that. When I did vote you later, you, mister pidgey, for a terrible vote on benmage, suddenly a crusade started. First "because I had called you town", but throughout the two days now not a single argument of yours has held. That wasn't an exception. In the end it boils down to me calling you scum and you taking that opportunity to do nothing else in this game but argue for my lynch.

confirm vote Pidgey

[mykonian]

Because I wanted her to shoot to cop. I'd say we've had that one before, haven't we? If Tammy was town, she should have shot the cop. If she wasn't, she couldn't possibly shoot the cop without giving away everything. I thought she was town.

This is fucking anti-town as hell.

Why the heck would a town killing role (vig?) shoot a claimed (town) cop with a guilty? That would only help to crumble the town and make it loose a extremly powerful town role.

Because the guilty was on the town vig. If she knew she were innocent, Benmage was fake. If she knew she was guilty, she couldn't let him flip.

If you think I'm scum, at least don't think I'm stupid. Because that assumption doesn't hold. If your case depends on the fact that I wouldn't know how to play, you should reconsider.

[mykonian]

Also lol, check this out: you say that you told tammy to shoot benmage because you thought she qas town, but you also called me scum initially for my vote on BENMAGE. So doesnt this show you thought BOTH were town, yet you still wanted tammy to shoot the cop for some reason ?

Im not calling you scum for different reasons, im calling you scum for MULTIPLE reasons, everything i have said about you still stands (calling me town, saying to shoot the cop, you active lurking d3, lying, etc) not my fault i keep finding new evidence.

You want to call your vote on benmage a solid good vote? Say so then and I'll burn your argument to the ground. Please, make my day, say your benmage vote even resembled a good one.

[mykonian]

and beyond that, why do you want to manipulate the situation before the claims to be the same as the situation after that? Certainly if a cop gets a guilty on a claimed vig, reads change?

[mykonian]

@Yates - Do you really think scum would need to do a "whoops, lol!" hammer to lynch Elscouta?

@Nero Cain - What is your flavor?

@Acosmist - Do only Metal Gear characters die if they target you?

Do not answer that.

[mykonian]

"Burn your argument to the ground" LOL. Im done arguing with you, all you do to try to counter all the arguments against you is blabble. I point out a contradiction on your case and you go all stupid against something I did, without even aknowledging the point i just made about you.

Scuummmmm

You are done arguing with me the moment you call your own vote on Benmage good. Need I remind people about that one, a page before Benmage claimed? No reasons, nothing, just a throwaway vote. And I'm supposedly not allowed to call you scum for that because I though after both Tammy's and Benmages claim I thought Benmage was scum?

Sure, suddenly you don't want to argue with me when you get called on the most amazing colored bullshit I've ever seen.

[mykonian]

"OH YOU TOOK 6 MINUTES? SCUM!!!"

Anyway this is a better vote for now

vote: Benmage

How is this a good vote if before the only mention you made of benmage is: "not really liking benmage, as he's clinging to such a weak target as myself".

But glad you called this a good vote. Because it's quite obvious it wasn't. Lynch please.

[mykonian]

I has spoken the reasons i voted fod benmage before my vote. If you want to be humiliated again i can do it in an hour when im not posting. You can do it before i do if you want to.

Again, misdirectio. And trying to spread lies.

Lol, reasons. The fact that he suspected you was a reason. Further, you say it clearly in that post that it's a throwaway vote. "anyway, this is a better vote for now". Which is just weaksauce.

Go ahead "humiliate" me. Show me those reasons. Because there weren't any, pidgey. You can't bluff cases in mafia. They exist or they don't. Here they don't.

[mykonian]

Not really liking benmage at all since he is clinging to a so easy target as myself, I mean how in the fuck can he have a scumread on me lol. Amrun was pretty much not a big factor either. Actually im voting this person for now i was waiting to catch up completely but this is a good old vote for now!

Ok you forgot to link that

I quoted it between "" 's. Pretty literal as well, for the fact that I didn't copy paste.

If your reasons are: omg he's voting me while I'm being an easy target: SURE YOU HAD REASONZ LOLZ.

Pidgey, in what state of mind are you currently that you think that makes a good vote on Benmage?

I mean it's funny and all, but this won't do for the coffee on the monitor scummy. You can still go for best claim if you go write a page about how you are scum and really sorry about killing people.