Street Racers: New York (Game over!)

[Aj The Epic]

Vote: The Albus Percival Wulfric Brian Dumbledore

You just had to have the longest name...

I would've voted for the second longest (The librarian) but this name is just too fun.

[Aj The Epic]

Roger, I suggest you go over to reading some guides real fast on how to play mafia. Because most of the people I know here are solid players and I'm going to bet that most people will not slow down for beginners in a game that is most certainly not a beginner game.

I suspect an alt. I honestly suspect alt playing newb card.

[Aj The Epic]

Does every mafia site have the same disease of NL on D1...I'm personally neutral about it...There are pros and cons about using it...but just coming into a game and voting NL (when there hasn't even been 1 page of conversation)...is in no way going to help the town...

VOTE: Roger Thornhill

No, unlike ours, the ultimate objective of day 1 is to get a lynch. The days are also about 7x as long on average, and nights are a full three days mostly. So it's hard not to have a good idea of who to lynch after day 1.

[Aj The Epic]

The apple just said so. It must be true. But, the apple was calling the rubix cube red.

[Aj The Epic]

B&B, I have 14 months experience. Shorter than Thez by 6 months max? And this game really, by the people I recognize from my other site and the ones I read from meta, is actually pretty packed full of experience.

@Jacobsavage Really now?

[Aj The Epic]

Realistically, it'll be hard to get to the scum if they're half good until we've cleared out a bunch of people. Too easy for scum to lurk. On the bright side, my chances of another D1 death go down dramatically.

[Aj The Epic]

In post 71, Aj The Epic wrote:B&B, I have 14 months experience.


Here. Here we go. Aj uspects an alt playing the newb card... while being an alt of someone not new. I'm not sure how I feel about that in hindsight but at least he's honest about it. Meh.

Not from this site. As stated in the sign up thread, there's a group of us here from a different site, where I've spent the last 12-13 months. I'm not an alt... It takes too long for people to think my playstyle is just me being overly honest for me to want to make an alt so I can just get lynched more often. Now, I just get NK'd over there.

[Aj The Epic]

Aj The Epic post 19: Why did you decide to join the Dumbledore bandwagon?

RVS. No issue at all with putting a couple votes on someone to see what happens. Obviously, he hasn't impressed in his first post on any sort of response.

[Aj The Epic]

VOTE: njoseph Awful sheep is still awful.

[Aj The Epic]

Parma and B&B have an argument that could justify their own votes, but I see three sheep and it isn't even time for me to go to bed yet. I'd like for Njoseph, Arc and Liberian to post any tells, just minor leanings and the sort, of those who have posted please. You are sheep, and must at least give something to contribute. Start there.

[Aj The Epic]

and, I just wanted to know if there is any Day Vig kill. This is a big game. They come under good use if we have two major suspects in a day phase. Isn't a good thing to have ability to hit Mafia twice?

In the words of Michael Buffer, "Let's get ready to Rolefish!"

Parma and B&B have an argument that could justify their own votes, but I see three sheep and it isn't even time for me to go to bed yet. I'd like for Njoseph, Arc and Liberian to post any tells, just minor leanings and the sort, of those who have posted please. You are sheep, and must at least give something to contribute. Start there.

What the fuck are you talking about? Read my iso.

Lol, this is why i like mafia verymuch. you can have a serious talk with the most amusing reactions.
Aj The Epic thinks those votes are too quick. Mr AJ, Its just a vote not the lynch yet. so chill

It's an ugly vote on your part.

Mini_librarian, please explain to me how him RVS'ing is a bad thing. Realistically the only other thing going on was some minor reaction tests and major talk of policy lynching Roger. That's something I don't have an issue with someone skipping, per time.

Bird, his reaction is the same as I've come to expect from most people with the votes of sorts placed on him. This reaction, I chalk it up to the standard "explain your vote, please". And it is a legitimate concern. When Njoseph and Arc placed votes, please tell me you at least smell a rat. You're initial clear/reads realistically are very gutty. I, personally, have Njoseph and Arc as needing validation to any other reads besides Thez and you that has some slightly unique reasoning or that doesn't follow your own calls before I pressure the hell out of them the rest of the game.

Lastly, since I have been having a major issue with sheeps in some games recently, allow people to place their own argument. Too often, people vote by the "I agree" system and it ticks me off no matter who they're lynching on.

Personally, my gut instinct tells me Thezmon is not scum for any reasoning brought up previously. It's an ugly reason essentially based totally off of this site's meta and not taking into account different habitual tendencies of other sites. Like, for example, I'd never state whether someone is scum or town based on two or three posts. Anyone can make a couple of posts if this were the case and appear town. The few that you deem as scum are then instantly lynched. The calls on this site are a pride thing for you at the end of the game to say "Hey look at all these reads I got right", in my opinion. Views should change too fast for two or three posts to decide this. They can come off as such, as you have me coming off as town up to now. But, my direct confrontation to you would surely change your opinion, correct? What then? Will you be influenced by prior views of who I am defending, or influenced by views of your gut instinct?

Also, by trying to take such a strong town standing earlier, you will regardless draw sheep. This is going to mean that YOU have to be more mindful of those following you. Especially because when someone agrees with you more often than disagrees, you are lulled into tendency to feel a sense of comradery. This is only natural, but you'll be influenced by that in just the same way that someone who argues with you will naturally be seen as a foe. For the moment, you and Parma both appear town, which not only makes you a target, people will tie themselves in such ways to WK themselves off of your death. Be VERY careful with your reads, therefore. And, I suspect your read on Thezmon is wrong.

[Aj The Epic]

Not even going to start on how Wifom-y that was.

[Aj The Epic]

I don't have an issue with TML trying to make a case. It wasn't very good, but it also was really early. Can you point me to what made you think that Arc is town? Because I think she tried to role fish out a day vig if there is one...

P-edit: But, if town, someone leaves you alive so you break your own prophecy. Or you could be well-disguised town, live and blame it on a frame. Or you could just be drawing doc protection. Either way, you probably will draw it and live, which would invalidate all of this if no or only one kill came through. (Maybe a vig on top of that, as well... but then we won't really be any the brighter). Prophesying someone's death is always real interesting concept.

[Aj The Epic]

So, generally upbeat and playing the meta early game. I'm not much for the lighter, happy-go-lucky mafia players, so if it's an appeal to emotions of some sort based on her general happy demeanor, I'm going to agree to disagree for a while.

I present two charges to her: Sheeping and Role fishing day vig. I'll leave it at that and hopefully draw upon it later.

P-edit. Don't worry, I knew that would happen.

[Aj The Epic]

I present two charges to her: Sheeping and Role fishing day vig.

Both of these are bullshit. She's clearly not sheeping, and she was clearly not rolefishing for a dayvig.

Go iso. 192 is obv-sheep. She makes no disguise of it. Basically "Good reason, here's your vote".
199, she's trying to draw a vig kill out. Specifically on Sixx. Whether she wants to control the vig, get someone to claim, or just set up an easy kill, she obviously stated that she wants to know if there is one. Well, there are only two ways for a day vig to answer that: Day kill or reply 'there is' or something to that effect.

[Aj The Epic]

To post 233
I disagree fully on part 2. Asking to day vig a player this early when not everyone has even checked in is really bad in my mind. To me, the vig needs to operate on their own reads until they have a confirmed townie to reason with.

[Aj The Epic]

I want to change your arguments, because they're right but not the full picture. He very clearly read the thread. He knows people are voting Albus. Yet he RVSed. Then said to vote scum. After reading the thread. And not formulating opinions. And instead RVSing. He is very very scum.

A good start in explaining why I’m scummy, though backed down when I challenged his target in:

I still have no clue if you are actually scumhunting, so I'm going to assume you aren;t.

Calls me out for lack of scumhunting when at this point he had done barely any scumhunting himself.

So, he’s more of a null-scum.

I had to correct these tags. Thez, for future reference

is the front tag. The post tag would be a Url tag, which is designed [url=http://]UrlText[/url]

B&B, you're still content with the way people are adding votes, even to the end of the lynch? Soon, they'll be too many to legitimately lynch when thez flips town because of an awful gut read.

[Aj The Epic]

Yeah, my firm bet is him being town, but B&B is, in my mind, going to have to answer for all of this. The reason is he has allowed this sheeping by page 12 to have 11 votes with 6 not voting and MANY STILL NOT EVEN CHECKED IN. Does anyone else, other than the people who always play with Thezmon, not see an issue with this?

[Aj The Epic]

Arc, He stated "Who I think is scummy on the wagon" Skim much?

Also, funny:

How does the day vig is any different to night vig? they both do the same..Kill. Day Vig is good for town if the right choice has been made. This concern of yours wonders me if you're afraid of being killed or lynched in the day phase? so are you the scum?

That's not even part of the discussion. Trying to draw off?

I am comfortable any of them. do we have day Vig kill?

Here's your post about vigs. Tell me this isn't fishing, to me face and honestly. Do we have any day vigs? Hello! That's fishing basics 101: Cast a line and wait for response.

And when Bumi questioned you, in which I guess he has the same concerns, your answer was:

and, I just wanted to know if there is any Day Vig kill. This is a big game. They come under good use if we have two major suspects in a day phase. Isn't a good thing to have ability to hit Mafia twice?

Yes, you just wanted to know. Exactly, so stop being dishonest later. This is a role fish, you are a role fisher. Mafia Jesus came to you and said, "“Follow me, and I will make you fishers of roles.” Sure, it's nice to have a day vig, but you don't need to out him day 1. The only way to for us to learn this is for him to kill someone or him to say it. And a kill this early will most likely be mislead. So he'd probably have to say it.

VOTE: ArcAngel

Denial of fishing, fishing, and sheeping. And, until the advent of a reason for your vote on Thezmon, you are sheeping in my mind.

[Aj The Epic]

If I happen to be, it's only a vote. I think her actions merit at least that, if not more, votes.

[Aj The Epic]

Explain.

[Aj The Epic]

They are pretty awful. I was able to take advantage of them as scum my first game in part do to the obvscum obv town beliefs being way off.

Jacob, explain to me how two players such as nhammen and thezmon, both who have considerable experience, make such a stupid play as a scum team and play to protect an obvscum, in your eyes. Then explain how my defense does not merit me apart of that. At what point, vote wise, would scum say "Lost cause" and maybe let it die out, but not actively defend it? I'd guess a lot earlier than 11. So, that argument or set of ideas of saying both a scum team is pretty awful.

[Aj The Epic]

We could check Njoseph... He cracks under pressure really easy. Probably by 7, you'd have something of a confirmed read either way. Though, admittedly, he reacts pretty poorly under pressure.

I'm not alone in my assessment of thezmon. No one that knows Thez thinks anything he has done is particularly out of character for him. Guess what, you can't force your meta on to someone else. Therefore, I'm guessing this is really "He doesn't play/react like us" lynch. Like I've said, it's stupid. And you could at least trust that not every one of us from that site is scum. Unfortunately, this discussion, looking back, has done NOTHING but allow people to vote easy and use the same reason as used before them. Therefore, we've basically learned nothing as of so far on anyone but perhaps B&B (none of which I particularly like), Thez, Arc, myself and Parma. That's really weak in a 25 player game.

So,

VOTE: Njoseph

Your style under pressure is easy to read. Even at the cost of you getting rather shaky for a while, pushing you towards a lynch will allow us to see your alignment. Do not replace this time. Do not self vote. So far, out of the posts you've made, all I get from reading them is nothing at all. The only thing we know about you is you are on the Tez wagon. This could be said for many people, but I'm guessing most people already have a pretty good idea on how you/tarzo react.

[Aj The Epic]

The information is your alignment and its relationship with how people responded to you, or acted when the thing in play was your wagon, etc.

Can someone tell me how this post doesn't strike some as so null it's scummy? Ugh. On questioning why we lynch Thez, this is the answer? This is so bad, it makes me cringe to think of the reasons. No substance of HIS reasoning. He's still secretly parroting meta, more than anything else. Guess what, lynching ALWAYS is supposed to do what you stated. If I wanted a textbook definition, I would c/p your post.

I know drawing Njoseph out of shell is going to prove something, and so far I'm thinking scum. If this is his whole reason, he has no business surviving day 1.

[Aj The Epic]

I am not moved by so-far-stuff to unvote thez. Let's get to deadline. If thez still has the most votes, see people jump on him.

So you plan on being unproductive for the rest of the day, and hoping to skim through without contributing?

More votes on Njoseph, please. Scum found. He obviously doesn't want to contribute, and his posts basically say that. Let's get to the deadline? Vote off thez, jump on his wagon? Even as others are reconsidering. Please, let's lynch this one.

[Aj The Epic]

I am not moved by so-far-stuff to unvote thez. Let's get to deadline. If thez still has the most votes, see people jump on him.

So you plan on being unproductive for the rest of the day, and hoping to skim through without contributing?

More votes on Njoseph, please. Scum found. He obviously doesn't want to contribute, and his posts basically say that. Let's get to the deadline? Vote off thez, jump on his wagon? Even as others are reconsidering. Please, let's lynch this one.

If you think he is Scum, why did't change your VOTE yet?
and why exactly you're working through Thez defense? thez seems to be pretty good to handling himself on his own way...

Skimming a bit, I see. I voted for Njoseph a while ago. As for defending Thez, no, syrup to flies is the same as Thez's wagon is for scum. And Njospeh is one of the scum, he's not playing his town meta at all. And he is really giving bad answers to one vote. I told you he cracked under pressure, but he's not able to say much positive after any attention has been put on him at all.

[Aj The Epic]

This guy obviously has no more experience than Roger.

Logical, well thought out posts may help you. Make sure your own logic doesn't cross your legs like a pretzel.

[Aj The Epic]

so your point about njospeh vote is that you know his play style as townie and he is now acting strange which makes him scum, correct?

Yes, I played against him as scum recently. For day 1, he posted well and was seemingly null enough, but day 2, after a bit of pressure, he cracked at l-2, self voted and put himself at l-1 as a townie to try to draw votes away. He muddled the town really badly until Nachomomma8 replaced him.

He cracks REALLY easily, to be honest, but noticeably different was the fact that on day 1, he was actively involved in trying to attack/lynch others. I honestly think his 'come at me' attitude is scum enough. He's challenging me and I know how this should end.

[Aj The Epic]

AngryMastin: I thought Heather was scum. I don't think Jal is scum independent of Heather; consider me torn on that slot's alignment. I have a strong feeling njoseph is ineffectually trying to fake his town meta. AJ is probably scum too.

So. Njoseph is trying to act town, and I'm attacking him, but still scum. Tripping over your own feet? I mean, at least humor me with a reason.

but how does your vote going to help town now, you obviously can't have 13 votes on him now.. so why wasting on it. what do you think about thez? Town? or Scum? I am asking you this because currently most the town thinks he may be the scum, we all don't know that for a certain about but he hasn't done anything much to change anyone's mind. so his lynch might give more answers. so which side are you on? No lynch or vote Thez?

I believe that it would be a mistake to not try and lynch Njoseph. Sure, it may take a lot of votes, but I do not feel the wagon on Thez justified and other than that, the only wagon going is a wagon on Sixx which came out of no where in the last page.

Albus, did you feel that the Thez wagon was falling away and decide to head up a new one? I'm still a little baffled by that move. Not a real strong case to start a wagon, giving how many posts we've had.

[Aj The Epic]

After 28 posts, I'm still null to you. Fantastic job getting reads on people who have far less posts than me, I guess.

[Aj The Epic]

Hey, is anyone else reading the same garbage that Njoseph is posting? Someone explain how anyone has been scummier than that, he hops another wagon with no reason whatsoever. I keep reading his posts thinking "What the hell are you talking about?". He is in complete disconnect and simply hoping that no one is watching him hop wagons like crazy.

[Aj The Epic]

Scum team A:

ArcAngel
Bumi
B&B

Scum not on team A:

NJ

-----------

UNVOTE: whoever KillerApple was voting for

VOTE: NJ

I'd much rather lynch AA, though.

-----------

I'll dig through tomorrow and illustrate why AA is scum. My vote will more than likely change at that point.

What, Is this a joke?
You know what this what scums usually do... try to make a post pretending to be scum hunting. and your post looks exactly like that...

Dont ever list the names that is scummy
State the people and the reasons to call them scum.

Now this post of yours is scummy post to me.

The hell kind of scum hunting do you do? You want me to list who should be able to call someone scum instead of pointing out who is probably scum? This logic is really odd.

[Aj The Epic]

Sly, welcome to this game as of so far: B&B wagons with more sheep than I count before I fall asleep.

Darthe, why not provide some actual constructive posts? You're encouraging someone to stop talking in mafia. Do you even know how shit gets done in mafia? I thought not. Continue on.

[Aj The Epic]

AA: This is his town game. He replaced out day 2 halfway through because he was having major issues once pressured. You know he's Tarzo, correct? I would guess older players have more meta on that.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=23940

[Aj The Epic]

thez shut up. That weak ass "casing" is a clear way to pretend that you're contributing.

I would like to say you've done little to help the town. Again, telling someone to shut up is counterproductive. Want to actually play the game or just continue telling people to be quiet? I'm fine with lynching you for discouragement or playing with very little helpful input.

[Aj The Epic]

If we lynch Njoseph and he flips scum, we kill Darthe next. Conditional, but he's helping as little as Njoseph.

Actually, I'll just superficially cast my suspicion on him![/sarcasm]

HoS:Darthe

Like seriously, what the hell are you doing? You're last three posts have been giving us our 'only options for a lynch today', encouraging a sheep on Sixx (no reason, mind you) and telling Sixx to shut up. This is in no means helpful. I expect something of substance before you try and take any position where you have the power to dictate anything. You are trying to go on and encourage nothing but sheeping. How come you can't present a real reason, or comment on anything important in your last three posts? No response to the vote from Ztife, just continuation of what makes me think you are overly scummy.

Njoseph, how about you start contributing to the conversation? Why do you think Sixx is a good lynch? Then, what do you think about Ztife and Dathe?

[Aj The Epic]

Life got busy the last two days.

Anyways, I see Njoseph is still sheeping. Look, I have a very big problem with sheep. They don't give very town reads. They just follow. I'm sorry, but I do invoke policy lynches if I can as soon as someone sheeps and continues to sheep. Njoseph has shown me nothing that says "You'll want this guy around if he's pro-town". No, rather I'm afraid he'll make many errant decisions. His lack of logical depth makes me worry about how easily people just look over him. I know many people have mixed opinions about him, but to completely ignore his actions this game, which are both unhelpful and hindering the town, I think we'll learn more from him with him dead rather them his continual posting.

[Aj The Epic]

Can we please lynch Njoseph? Please? All I see from him is trying to avoid getting himself lynched by intentionally not contributing.

I have never heard of a mafia jailkeeper. Of course, mafia RB could easily just jump and claim that, as well. But I'm not feeling it. If I was going to fake claim as scum day 1, I'd definitely fake claim doctor and draw the counterclaim for my scum team.

B&B, explain please? Why would you like to lynch me. You don't feel I have legitimate reasons to want to lynch Njoseph? Well hell, my reason is legitimate and you can't seem to find it in you to vote for me even though you almost led Thez's wagon to a lynch. There is certainly enough time for you to start another one of your so far useless wagoning. Not wanting to do another?

[Aj The Epic]

And yes your play today is scummy as hell. Do you actually have any scum reads?

Could ask you the same question. I personally believe Bumi, Njoseph, Darthe and Ztife leave a lot to envy in recent play. I would guess that Njoseph and Bumi are most likely scum, but the most likely team is Nj and Darthe. I personally think that Njoseph is deliberately here to throw us around and he hasn't helped at all. Sheeps every which way and I'm the only one who apparently cares.

[Aj The Epic]

AJ, what is your current read on Arcangel?

Why ask me about AA? It's not like she's been any major part of the game recently. In fact, she self admittedly has not posted much recently. There were 200+ posts between her posts up until her last two posts. So, I refuse to answer this on the grounds that the question is loaded to make me answer by what I said on her far earlier and the fact that you are probably trying to draw a weak answer from me on someone who I cannot have an accurate read from recently.

[Aj The Epic]

Really? ArcAngel ws tryingto get Sixx vigged? And now that sixx has flipped scum you arent even going to comment on how unlikely it is for her to be on Sixx's team despite be ing 1090% confident she was trying to get him Vigged? Nooooooooope.

Conditional. I had no idea of Sixx's alignment. Showed no interest in his or Thez's wagon. I don't like your voting patterns, or your hunting so I refuse to follow it. You ask me about something that is in post 231, and say that somehow I need to know Sixx's alignment then to say that AA is justified? I still doubt she's justified in any case to call the vig. It wasn't done well in my eyes. Have I been on her case? No, not recently. And so you try to throw me back at her. I explained the conditions on why I am unable to give a fair assessment. You'd have been on my case had I claimed she was seeming pro-town for crossing myself 800 posts back. I mean, hell, you wish me to take a situation there and use it as a current read.

Yes, anyone with basic mafia sense can tell she's not on the same team as Sixx. There is also a reason her wagon had nothing doing when the vote count reset (I'm very, very sorry for upsetting your majesty and not voting right back to the same person as soon as the vote count reset. What could I ever possibly do to repay this debt?). Does this change that looking for a vig that early is bad? No. Vigs DIE night 1, if revealed. Or, get jailblocked/roleblocked (You don't think the NYPD has more of that kind of role in a 25 player game?).

Personally, I'd rather take a moment and look around. You caught so many sheep without reason that the major thing I've learned is (most) people are willing to follow you. The fact that you are encouraging sheep to sheep more when we have a reset clock on our hands in day 1 is weird. Now, will I vote for you? No, I doubt you're scum. I just think that some of the things you say are less than baseless, sometimes borderline useless. You're vote for me "Because screw connections". Because you can't find me working with anyone apparently. And this makes me scum.

May I ask that, other than post 231, could you find something closer to the 1144th post to use as a reason to ask me what I thought of AA? Otherwise, I feel that you're grasping at straws, badly.

[Aj The Epic]

Forgot about the specific post? Sure, I don't have a photographic memory. But I still don't understand why bring it up. Looking at the post there would only assure her being of different alignment. Recently, it would be hard to develop a read of her. If I asked you, would it not be unfair to have you look at 2 posts in the last 200 (one of which was to apologize for lack of posting)? If I wish to keep my reads moving, I can't realistically settle on a read a while ago (I also don't speak it on a whim, either...).

[Aj The Epic]

Njoseph, in your eyes, who is scum and why?

[Aj The Epic]

B&B - One thing I forgot to mention: AJ started the Thez wagon before the potential Ztife or Sixx wagon popped up. It would be a counter to the Thez bandwagon after getting off of AA. No, I still haven't actually looked at AJ. I am laazy.

Eh, mind rephrasing? I've had nothing to do with the Thez wagon. I was on AA for a while and Njoseph's case (and am hoping he gets night killed so I can end worrying about him). Other than that, I have not placed a serious vote elsewhere.

Am I the only one who thinks AA changed who was typing from when she began this game? All of the sudden, I feel like I'm reading someone else post for her. I never agreed with her moves, but now she's become pretty conservative.

who i still think very scummy is Thez and Ztife, I could be wrong too, but Thez gives a strong defence but Ztife doesn't.

This line gives me weird vibes... Not only because they've both been the major focus of today (besides Sixx) but also because there isn't much here that says "I think X is scum, and Y is probably scum. Here's my vote". Instead, I feel as if she went back and forth on deciding whether or not she was saying the correct thing. Playing safe in mafia never comes off as playing correctly in mafia to me, and this just seemed about as safe a post you could make.

Well. She could've at least given something reason wise.

[Aj The Epic]

Yeah, that's it Baby Spice. You figured it out! If you think I'm scum, get back on my wagon and push it through. Same goes for you thez.

I honestly don't give a fuck what tipped SC to notice that. In my mind, it's nothing important.

Man, the Bumi wagon is a creepy one... Nj, Darthe, JS, Peregrine...

Vote:Zstife

I also hate arguments like "Lovers/Neighbors are GENERALLY different fractions". Generally doesn't work for me. Nor do I believe that is entirely true. I think scum through a QT would be too easy to spot when put there with a townie. Basically, something I wouldn't put too much thought into. Rather, look at the play. I was thinking of voting for Bumi but I've been worried about multiple players on said wagon (all but PV, and that may just be lack of reading into him). I'd go for the Sly wagon, generally; most of my town reads are on it. But, Zstife did something half way, and that's not going to sit. A partial claim is just smoke in the water, it won't help me much. I also am not sure about how much legitimacy there is to lynching Sly. I feel his ego is a little out of sorts right now, but that's not something you lynch on.

His responses, however, are becoming increasingly pitiful. I feel like he's simply calling people out now. It doesn't even feel like "I'm grabbing town points"... More like 'Ha, I did something'.

I'm up for looking into Darthe much more closely. I haven't liked his reactions while I was on Njoseph, he was basically trying to be the wolf shepherding sheep.

[Aj The Epic]

B&B:

If you want to make a good faith show for being my BFF, join me on the AJ wagon. Ztife has basically claimed a town PR so give him some slack and see if he hangs himself with it. If he doesn't produce now, he's an obvious lynch target for later days. If he is telling the truth, it would be better to make scum NK him than for us to gift them with his lynch.

Combining AJ's avoidance with the AA question and his recently fluff sheep vote, I'm fully in support of an AJ lynch.

Let's roll into N1 with 2 dead scum!

UNVOTE: Parama

VOTE: AJ The Epic

You really swing easy, don't you. I like the fact that your opinion on people is so very reaction-based. If you think that's fluff, then I guess you're just waiting for everyone to claim. I gave my reason for my vote (Nothing about wanting a lynch, rather a full claim to something half-assedly done) and my opinion on the Bumi wagon. I haven't liked Dathe at all in this game, as expressed.

Learn to read what I write, rather than disregard it as fluff. Perhaps you'll get a read.

[Aj The Epic]

I was re-reading various bits of the game when I noticed something.

Sixx, who was

James Donahue, the driver of a 1993 Ford Mustang SSP and an NYPD Mafia jailkeeper

,

Sixx was extremely reluctant to claim his car, despite being asked several times. He made excuses along the lines of it wouldn't matter.
So I went and wikipedia'd it.
The 1993 Mustang SSP was a special edition made by Ford for the California Highway Patrol. It was a pure cop car.

So I'm wondering if the mafia have no safe claims.

Generally, SC large theme games that could use a fake claim for scum have had them, so this would be atypical.
SC large theme's are usually single scum, but blue indicates multiball so this would be atypical.
SC large themes usually have post restrictions, so this also appears atypical.

Which brings me to Ztife's claim of driving a Honda Prelude.
Not exactly a street racing machine.

Well, your first issue is there are thousands of different car makes and models, and only 24 people remaining.

What's the logic on TML wagon? I mean, I haven't been a huge fan, but I'd probably rather go after Darthe.

Which, since Zstife apparently is being left for dead,

Vote:Darthe

Outing yourself as a neighbor was not smart, to say the least. It's a fairly decent role, given if you can recruit. I highly doubt you had ANY talk with Bumi to begin with. You came and said that Bumi was defending Bam, but Bumi tells that you don't have day talk. Then, never do you produce any place where Bumi is defending Bam, which makes you a liar in my eyes. I don't personally remember Bumi defending bam.

Secondly, I've seen you very happy to support mindless sheeping. Basically screaming at people to vote one way or another. You're sitting on a wagon with someone who is at least a VI, if not scum, and another player who I've yet to read. In under 100 posts, Bumi went from town to probably scum. 729: Pot, meet Kettle. 758: Obvious sheeping... Sure, he voted, but I really don't see why in his iso. States Sixx is scum and tells him to shut up... I honestly don't see why he's voting for Bumi over CKD. CKD is his only real built case, yet he's on Bumi. It's rather odd and so far, I have yet to see a reason for any of his votes (Since he hasn't voted for CKD...)

[Aj The Epic]

No, I only mentioned a few posts but referenced a couple more (CKD case and the claim, for example). I want to see his thoughts right now. To be honest, out of 23 players I could vote for, I'm picking my brain for who fits where. Darthe comes up as one of the loose ends right now. Attacking a neighbor isn't a day 1 move that town generally does, especially before ever talking to his partner. Then, he just goes ahead and role claims. No trying to solve this subtly, just the claim.

And let's face it, Darthe hasn't given his stance. What I'm looking for is the ones who have been voting on major wagons, but simply sheeping. I really want to look at JS because I think his play is incredibly stupid, but I think that may be more of a VI. Even with Darthe, the motive for how you play each individual role as town doesn't seem to be there. You're a neighbor, haven't talked with your partner yet, claim he defended scum, and then basically outed yourself. How does town go about the same situation, even saying Bumi DID defend Sixx? Maybe build a case, probably ask Bumi specifically about specific posts. Present certain questions. A neighbor between someone you can verify as pro-town is a double vote, someone who will support you, and possibly someone who can help you develop reads. Yet he claims? Why? It's almost as if Darthe is trying to use his claim as leverage to get a lynch.

The issue I still see is why does Darthe end up pushing so hard if he IS scum? I could see the WIFOM of "Led the town wagon, no reason to do so" ideology, but it is something rare to see in mafia, especially to get a simple lynch. Unless one of the current wagons was a scum partner. I believe this last part is untrue, because we do know Darthe voted for Zstife. The reasoning was shaky, so it could be a distancing tactic. His first post has Zstife as scummy. In the end, I need answers on this slot. To me, he's the most suspicious because I currently am going under the assumption NJ is VI.

[Aj The Epic]

I'm the wagon du jour now? You guys need to get your head out of your asses.

We are either lynching AJ (the relational tells with sixx are astounding (have a link)) or NJ (his active lurking shtick is scummy as hell)

Oh no, you linked my iso! Such a great case against me. But let's be honest, I've crossed my t's and dotted my i's, you simply are looking for someone to target.

Universal Backup as a claim is a little weak because it could be simply a named townie. Also is one of those roles you could fake claim easily because you don't have to prove your actions right away. I don't like this role claim at all.

BUT!

Unote, Vote:Slysly.

I don't have to like Darthe's posts... But in the end, it still doesn't make sense, even from WIFOM standpoint of people saying that doesn't make any sense. Too much of a risk in a 25 player game, too little reward.

Meh.

VOTE: PeregrineV.

Blatantly sheeping Llama for the moment. As good a place as any other.
Alternatives are AJ and nhammen off the top of my head. AP can change it if he'd like.

It would appear that I'm always going to be second place in your heart. Such a relationship will never work out here.

In all honesty, do YOU believe TML's claim? I know you unvoted, but you also stated that you'd rather not lynched a power role day 1. While I agree with this, undoubtedly any scum will claim a power role in this game. There's no reason for one to claim VT.

[Aj The Epic]

B&B, you still didn't answer my question. I told you exactly what's true: Scum will not claim anything but a power role today, especially if on the chopping block.

[Aj The Epic]

I've been looking at some iso's. Really, I had JS as scummy, but his iso (and the points he made) read town. I'm surprised no one else has placed him as a town read yet (or recently, at least).

I also don't mind the AA wagon. Let me explain. There was a period where I went and focused on SlySly. His ego wasn't going to fit well here, but he had been attacking AA. Neither made good points, but to be honest, at least it got AA to post more (I voted SlySly because I wanted to see what he'd say to a random vote out of the blue. He obviously didn't last that long, Thez). What I found in her iso is a lot of AtE and very little of anything else. She said she provides reason with ever vote, but sometimes I can't find it. I left her iso on post 1560. She voted for nhman (or whatever that name is) saying his reasoning was bad. Outside the iso, that was 8 pages back, and she had 11 posts in between his last and her vote. This makes it really hard to determine just WHAT reason was bad.

Another inconsistency I found was her weird response. When B&B went and asked me that question about what I thought of her after Sixx's flip, she stated she felt I was town. 100 posts later, I've gone from 'misguided townie' to most likely scum. In that 100 posts, I made ONE post. 1290, here's what I think caught her:

who i still think very scummy is Thez and Ztife, I could be wrong too, but Thez gives a strong defence but Ztife doesn't.

This line gives me weird vibes... Not only because they've both been the major focus of today (besides Sixx) but also because there isn't much here that says "I think X is scum, and Y is probably scum. Here's my vote". Instead, I feel as if she went back and forth on deciding whether or not she was saying the correct thing. Playing safe in mafia never comes off as playing correctly in mafia to me, and this just seemed about as safe a post you could make.

Well. She could've at least given something reason wise.

This was a quote from her 1258. Which was odd as hell to begin with.

1284 (hers) wasn't bad, but it's 1285 that always makes me a little disappointed in B&B. That post (1284) which attacked Sly in basically a major "Don't call me scum, go scum hunt someone else" AtE was called "obvtown post" by B&B. It isn't, by any stretch of the mind, obvtown. Not to the requirements of obvtown, which is actively scum hunting and taking arguments to people that bring up solid points. B&B is allowing AA's post against Slysly, who has been causing her AtE, to be considered as a obvtown post. Unless B&B knows something I don't, this would NEVER strike me as obvtown.

If he's saying scum don't go AtE, bull. Scum will do whatever is necessary, and so something like this isn't obvtown. Am I rambling a bit on this point? Yes, more than a little. But it's really scummy, and I've never gotten over how odd B&B has been this game. Even for two different people, it basically feels like "I'll call someone scum and no one will question me".

(To be honest, I'd show that the same method is something used in Nazi Germany, but that's a bit of a stretch... scale wise. He is doing the same thing, just in a game)

I've discovered that I am completely uncomfortable about AA and B&B. 1308 again shows B&B refusing to look at anyone who kept saying AA was way out of it and acting strange. Saying she was "bleeding town" or something.

And, at the risk of making myself a bigger target to me than I am now, VOTE: Bird&Beast

You're odd. I started looking into JacobSavage, and came that he had some decent points on AA. But, when I looked at AA defense, it seemed that you were constantly holding her hand. I honestly don't give a damn about you saying that meta-you doesn't hold someone's hand. You're holding her hand, and whether you're leading her straight to death is beyond me. You continuously call her 'obvtown' when I think anyone else can sit here and tell you she definitely is not. In fact, just looking at the last few pages has made it fairly obvious that you may be the ONLY one who thinks she is obv town.

I've also been astounded that you're willing to sit me on your second scummiest seat for almost 1,000 posts. I literally have not moved, up or down. When you say you want me lynched, you don't stick more than a couple of posts. Why not come at me? You really, really want me dead, yet I've never seen you honestly attempt to put something on me. I don't see you doing anything in the way to attacking me. By now, I'd expect you to be in your "lynch scum' mode if you expected me to be scum. I EXPECTED this about 600 posts ago. It doesn't take people this long to decide town/scum on anyone, especially when I seem to have been a main point of interest for you now for almost every recent post after Sixx's flip. So, what say you? Present to me why you think I'm scum. I've been waiting for that post, but you never come out with it. I don't think you consider me a threat, so why even leave me sitting at your number two spot?

Hey, you know what's funny? Guess how many times B&B has voted for me, his consistent number 2 suspect? Twice. Once recently, once way back then. He had an issue with me telling him that Thez and Heather weren't scummy just because they played different. So, all the way in 225, he starts this rather consistent second-place feud with me. Since then, I've been mentioned as scum in: 21 posts. Number of "We should lynch Aj" and no vote? 5 posts. In 172 posts, and excluding the 44 where he had me as town, this is 16% of his overall posts mention me as scum without a direct argument to me. Why? I don't honestly know.

Can someone look at post 963

More recently, he's done the same thing with Nhman. Coincidence that this is AA's target almost at the same moment in time when he starts to push his case?

He is under clear assumption that someone else will apparently go out of their way and kill Zstife, who he STILL holds is scum, but is unwilling to lynch. If you think Zstife is scum, don't throw him in your back pocket to lynch later.

TML, who was at l-4, B&B almost wrote him off simply by calling me scum (but, after calling Nj scum, that nullified anything). I'm not sure exactly why he's been so persistent without ever voting. I feel as if he's waiting for someone else to make the case. Really, I don't see it as very town. I want him to make the case against me. He's had this one to think about for 1800 posts, I want to see it.

This all looks very opportunistic to me. He's holding at least three players who, if they don't die by night kills, he's willing to lynch. Line them up and knock them down, right? He's never been hard on any of his reads that seems to be main. Gets Zstife's claim, moves on?

[Aj The Epic]

I was under some doubt for a while with him only claiming town PR. I DON'T leave scum alive under any circumstance. I wanted his claim, and voted to get it. His claim of Doc is something I personally believe to be town. Also, B&B disregarding that a 'first aid tool box' exists isn't correct. Google says I have About 44,500,000 results. This makes me think it's a pretty real thing, especially with the images provided. How else do you store high-end medical items in a fast vehicle? It sounds pretty legitimate to me.

His motive and movements have shifted with the same way the majority of people shifted in this game. Thez, Sixx (with Darthe in between). All his points have been something I can see reasoning behind and the majority of his posts have a good supporting case. He was pressured because of unseencamo, not his play. Out of his fourteen posts, 5 of them, looking back, I completely agree with, two of which turned out to be pressure on scum. At the time, there were only three I agreed with, but he's done a nice job of supporting himself when he's posted. Granted, it's been almost 200 posts, but I've probably gone more posts than him without a response.

As for my vote being pointless, if not now, when? His 'second suspects' list that never gets votes from him HAS to come into play with reasoning, and I want him to start dropping some logic on us. Sure, I could allow him to have his vote on me right now, barely anyone seems to follow it, but I think I've got enough statistical evidence in how often he's called me scum but done nothing about it to prove he's lining up lynches.

Nice prod-dodge. Got any content to post, UVApe?

Baby, I believe that B&B is driving AA to her eventual lynch. For choosing her as town, he's really let her continue in some situations where her seeming inexperience would probably let her burn. Sly's incident is the main one I've noticed. I'd say she's leaning town, but not from any outstanding posts on her behalf. Realistically, this works in B&B's favor should he try and lynch her. She was town, but not from her posts. Just wouldn't have made sense for her to be scum. I still don't like the vig move in the first couple hundred posts. Her AtE is null to me, I'm still trying to figure out how that generally goes with people. AtE isn't really hard to fake, to be honest. I've always written it off to player, I rarely ever post AtE unless something's got me really, really mad, and that certainly isn't side dependent. Being case-by-case, the whole conversation with Sly just looks bad to me because she was having a hard time attacking Sly even though it seemed she wanted to call him scum. Sly was very much in the belief that she was 'derp' at mafia, and that this didn't attribute to her role. Really, even through this, B&B pulled her out before Sly could unload whatever attack he probably was going to raise on her. From my eyes, I see it as him setting up evidence against her for a future date.

[Aj The Epic]

'first aid man cow' got me 31,700,000 results. there's still no such thing as a first aid man cow.
try clicking on the results you get >.>

If you ever wanted to buy one, just look at the first two links.

http://hzttbox.en.alibaba.com/product/4 ... olbox.html
http://firstaidkit.en.alibaba.com/produ ... l_Box.html

Baby Spice, if you my feelings on AA summed up, I think she's probably is town and being mislead by B&B, like a sheep to slaughter.

[Aj The Epic]

AA, I wasn't calling you scum. Like edo, though, I found post 2002 slightly ironic. I'm pretty sure I called you leaning-town, so the follow-up post by you doesn't seem to accurately reply to me.

[Aj The Epic]

I'm playing the Mastin card. Which card is that?

Llama's is the largest wagon. Get on him. Default strategy.

I'd rather lynch myself than LlamaFluff. That guy is

ridiculously

town, so pretty much almost any other lynch would be better than his. (Yup, I'm play this card. )

Not him. AJ's wagon has support. Ztife's wagon has support (though I'd prefer AJ). Heck, KJ's wagon would be better than Llama's.

We are not lynching him today.

Please explain your case on me. I'm waiting.

[Aj The Epic]

If you're not voting or are on a single/2-person wagon, it would be awesome if you swtich to a better wagon. Aj, I understand your motives for B&B, but I think they are currently ill-placed.

It may be, but should I be lynched, this point must be seen for the next day. I think the last reason he hasn't pushed it harder is because he knows my flip. He's leaving someone he thinks is scum ALIVE! Future lynch option for him. Actually, he's got three alive that he's constantly said he'd like a lynch from, but never pushed into it.

If I were to go to a Zstife wagon, it'd be because of Unseen and not Zstife, but I really don't want to go after him. I'd rather take out someone I really feel has some bad motives going.

[Aj The Epic]

JacobSavage is also a capital choice for a lynch. Thar be scum.

JacobSavage's posting strike me as town. Mind sharing your opinions on the whole proceeding of events? You've seemed to miss quite a bit.

[Aj The Epic]

Edosurist could easily be scum. Generally gut, but 1470 seals it.

What post? 1470 is by Njoseph.

[Aj The Epic]

3 dead in one night. this is not good at all. Time to find the real scums!!!

Set afire this one, for she has led the cheer-leading.

[Aj The Epic]

Aj pushed us to lynch AA, but didn't actually vote...

Bullshit. I pushed for a B&B lynch.

[Aj The Epic]

I'm waiting for more posts today. Since no one wants to lynch someone who is scum (B&B), I'll have to track someone else first to prove I'm right. And you honestly think with that post, I'm going to push her lynch when I spend upward of 4-5k worth of words pushing my case on B&B? I'll find someone to vote for when I feel that they're scum and I can get a lynch on them. B&B only fits half the requirements.

I also am slightly interested that if so many thought B&B was town, why'd he survive? Only one kill comes back reading like a vig kill to me, the rest seem to be mafia. So why leave the self-proclaimed conftown alive? Two reasons, I suspect: He's scum or he's cleared scum and has pro-town opinions of major scum.

[Aj The Epic]

You were ranting about how AA was trying to get Sixx vigged. You were so sure of it. And then when Sixx flips maf you don't care about that and didn't care to say she couldn't be maf with Sixx? You are discrediting AA9 all game and prodding her wagon but you never ACTUALLY lay a vote on her for more than a token amount of time.

I seem to see some resemblance of your pattern on voting for me in the same way. I think AA has played bad, but I expressed yesterday that I thought she was being mislead. For now, I feel that her actions are more represented by someone being a VI. And let's face it, you're going back to the question about how I felt about AA after Sixx's flip, the multi-ball aspect was already brought up so it doesn't clear anyone, just means they most likely won't be working with Sixx.

I've read nothing except for my predecessors ISO, which I read to see if the slot was town before replacing in

I said this exact same thing when I replaced into a scum slot in HPATPL

I also am slightly interested that if so many thought B&B was town, why'd he survive? Only one kill comes back reading like a vig kill to me, the rest seem to be mafia. So why leave the self-proclaimed conftown alive? Two reasons, I suspect: He's scum or he's cleared scum and has pro-town opinions of major scum.

Scumpost:

"The AP / mastin hydra shouldn't be trusted! Its either obviously scum or obviously wrong!"

Nice discredit there.

VOTE US. Lets 1v1. Show some spine, scum.

Also major FoS on Jal if she doesnt help me lynch the crap out of AJ today. Im squinting in your general direction, Jal...

Wait a second, did AJ claim a track negative on us? Because outing that sort of information is totally protown to sling around. And he is speculating on why we weren't NK'd? Gee, I wonder if its because the guy with the scum card INVESTIGATED us last night.

First off, you are fairly wrong with multiple reads in my mind. As for voting you, I think not. No one seems to believe your scum and thus I'd simply be flailing to vote for you. Once I flip, people will realize that I did indeed have a reason against you, if it should come to that. This also isn't COD, I don't understand why you'd want me to '1v

1

2' you.

No, I didn't use any power on you. Mainly because I have none, so try again.

Darthe, the name claim is in "You can be anyone" mafia, not this one. I don't think half the people here have name claimed.

VOTE: Bumi

I actually was rather surprised when I stumbled across some meta the other day claiming that Bumi is perhaps one of the best players as town, (he's been nominated for the rising star scummy because he is able to completely lead a town to victory) but I just don't feel it this time. I'll look back later, but my pain medication for my surgery has run a little more than dry right now (I wish I could claw my gums out if it would stop this pain).

[Aj The Epic]

I've got a bit of responding to do. I'll divvy it up into spoilers if it goes too long.

Second half--do tell which kill YOU think is the vig kill.

Now, I'm assuming you think it was Zdenek. I personally think it was Llamafluff, both from flavor (Z was thrown out a window, Llama run over) and from actions. You had your own personal dislike of Nhmanan (or however it's spelled), but more people were weary of Llama's pre-recognition of cop. Now, would I have vigged either? No. On night 1, I might just policy vig someone who wasn't active enough and could possibly be hiding if I had no strong reads. Different people, different styles.

Aj, give me a rundown of all who you think is scum. There must be more than two people.

Spoiler:

Albus Dumbledore:

Probable scum. First thing on his iso is his second two posts contradict. May also look further into him. He's also only posted 23 times, not a lot to grab at.

Bumi

: I have a lurking suspicion that he may be scum, may push this case later today.

Darthe

: I had reason to suspect him as scum yesterday, but ran my own logic for his actions in a circle that didn't work. While my opinion on him can change, for now I'll place him as town, even though I disagree with how he went about acting yesterday's Neighbor claim.

JacobSavage

: I believe Mr. Savage is town. I've liked his posts, especially upon review.

jmj3000

- between him and Robert, this slot has 15 posts? I kind of like some of the points Jmj made, but it isn't hard to only make a few good points while having almost no posts. Still predictably null.

MattP

I think this one is leaning scum. Nothing sticks out as blatant scum, but this is an iso check and iso checks miss major points.

njoseph

: Town. Occasionally annoying, but town.

Skyhook

He's done better that Slysly, and I had slysly down as probable town.

UVApe

: I didn't really like his inactivity. His prod dodge was weird, asked for more action and then didn't contribute at all. Probable scum.

curiouskarmadog

Spent the whole day complaining about Darthe, then went on about wanting Zstife or KJ votes. Leaning strong scum.

Boniface

Can't say much, even after reading the whole iso. The only thing I note are all his votes from yesterday are on town or people I think are town. (Zstife, Sky, Llama).

Jal

: I think she's town. Her posts come off as one of the better in the game.

PeregrineV

I think he's town. He makes some fantastic points (including pointing out that Zstife was Sixx's counterwagon in post1244, which went unnoticed as far as I can tell).

thezmon221

: By now, I can basically believe him to be completely town.

BirdAndBeast

: I'll look again, but I still think they're scum.

The Mini-Librarian

Most likely scum. His posts are short and unhelpful. Also claimed Universal Backup. A rather easy claim as mafia. Also didn't die, which as a UB protective alignment (jail keep/doctor are his options, depending on how a mod kill plays out for that role) is odd.

Edosurist

Is probably scum. Does not post a whole lot of content after he caught up. In 810, he states he'll hammer anyone who isn't an explicit town read. Very scum.

Baby Spice

Vote for AA was lame. Grammar determined her vote there. Short post styles always make me a little mad. I'm content to say a null read that I'll definitely revisit later.

ArcAngel9

: She's probably town, but doesn't mean I have to like how she's playing.

AA continues to derp. You don't need to read this, I plan on clarifying/correcting some of her misconceptions.

Spoiler:

I now am going to agree with Slysly's notion on this. I haven't called her scum, but she constantly thinks I have. I love the fact that she's taking everything the wrong way (Including thinking she was getting back stabbed by B&B... little early for that).

Point 1 : He initially accused me asking for Day Vig, and called me Scum but didn't stand by to that point, He later changed his opinion on me and said that I am not scum, then he vanished for really long time. Out of nowhere he comes back puts his vote on me for the same old reason which he already changed his mind on it once and also asked others to join his wagon. That is extremely scummy attitude

I changed my opinion formally on the thread almost 1000 posts later... Your point? I never vanished, either. I was gone for maybe 36 hours, max... I actually only voted for you in post 302.

Point 2: Now he is not much reacting when everyone accusing me being his scum mate, this an another big concern to me. Because, I am not scum. If he is not scum. The first thing he would be doing is that to tell people that he is not scum mate with me but rather he is defending himself that he was pushing for B & B lynch not AA lynch. He failed to explain on the suspicion that He and I could be the scum mates. It’s like he doesn’t want to talk about it… Its looks like his intention to make me look like his scum buddy so that rest of town can lynch me.

I thought this was funny, seeing as I hadn't been online to react either way. Though, you are also incorrect in assuming I have been pushing for your lynch.

Bumi: You are supposed to be a very strong player by meta. Before learning this, my reading of you had been that you were relatively new and didn't know the game well yet. The date supported this. But, you also haven't made many (or any) posts that are pro-town. You ask a lot of questions, but give us little back. I really don't know your reads, as your average post is 2 sentences, and not even long enough to make three lines of space taken.

[Aj The Epic]

When can I expect your case on Aj? I personally think he's more town than scum, and I think that his last post was pretty town too.

Did you actually

read

his last post?

His godawful reads, godawful justification, calling AA derp-town and continuing to push us as scum, and bashing AA.


Do provide me with your viewpoint.


As for a case, that's AP's job. My cases don't seem to get nearly as much traction.

Just because our reads differ do not mean mine are invalid. What would YOU call AA? Because she definitely isn't bringing up good points. She's all out of sorts and not playing any sort of good game recently because she's constantly misreading what everyone is saying about her. Did I push you as scum in that last post? Not really. I mentioned that my opinion had not changed, but you certainly weren't a focus.

[Aj The Epic]

Because I wasn't there to give a full fucking analysis on everyone. I gave an overview. I didn't go indepth, but you were much more focused on KJ and Zstife.

[Aj The Epic]

2235 is scum. Please guys just look at those reads. Those are completely manufactured.

Explain why, please. They aren't manufactured. Sure, some of them I had to go look, but the majority of them are what I feel about them.

I love the fact you openly claim your role here. Town wouldn't do that. Why expose yourself 100% that you're a doc?

[Aj The Epic]

Actions of others and perhaps some of your own actions have basically verified that you are town.