FINISHED You could be anyone Mafia

[Nostredeus]

#1655 (end of) is, as ever, bad.

[Nostredeus]

Well we're getting our arses kicked here...

Xelath is presumably cleared and I am Innocent wasn't scum which is frankly surprising.

I'll have more to say once AuntJ and Pere tell us what they know.

[Nostredeus]

StrangerCoug
Nostredeus
Majiffy
Aj The Epic (Cleared by quints, confirmed town.)
Lurker
Devotress
PereV (Claiming LD)
Aunt Jemina (Claiming Rolecop)
Darthe (Cleared by AuntJ)
Xelath (Claiming Town Vig, fairly confirmed town (possibility for an extra scum night-kill))
Inte (Claiming Neighbouriser)


That's how things stand; the scum RB was presumably used on either Pere or AuntJ (I specifically want to know who; I have thoughts regarding this).

#873 and #1031 makes me think Lurker is scum.

#1654; two scum on the wagon and one/two off of it feels about right. Assuming Lurker is one of those scum the other potential scum on the wagon are: Darthe, Majiffy, Stranger, Myself. Off the wagon it's either AuntJ, Pere, Devotress or inte.

Devotress and Majiffy were on the quints wagon in #948; also devotress has been in sketchy places almost every single vote count:

#611/644/718/752/782/833/873/ - On Monkey.
#948/983/1222/1289/ - On Quints.
#1031 - On Daumis.
#1368/1467/1591/1654/1669/ - On Majiffy.

I'd say either Majiffy or Devotress are scum, but probably not both.

More later.

[Nostredeus]

Yeah so 1) use sentences we can understand, 2) explain what you just meant.

[Nostredeus]

Hi Yates

[Nostredeus]

So I have no intention of guessing what AuntJ's result was; for all I know this could be a load of bull, I expect a full reveal in the next post.

[Nostredeus]

Still waiting on PV, I have a strong suspicion about something.

[Nostredeus]

I'm going to lose my shit if I hear the words sour, sweet, waffles or syrup again...

[Nostredeus]

Yates, deary,

1 RB vs two cops and a lie detector?

Given that qwints ended up dead, it is fully possible we possess no protective power roles. This would mean that three investigative roles is not outside the realms of possibility.

Right. So I guess this puts me right back at; why are you voting Majiffy? If Qwints was Town and YOU are Town, isn't [Grinny] obv Scum?

You are forgetting that I am a

rolecop

. I require but one night phase to clear things up. If I get a result, I know. If I end up roleblocked, then the existence of a roleblocker is proven, and Grinny either gets real results, ends up dead (unlikely), or fakes results. If I end up dead, then it's not my problem to sort out.

To put it simply, there is only one scenario where there is no difference between today and tomorrow when it comes to me and Grinny, and that's where I am nightkilled. There are many scenarios where saving this debate for tomorrow gives us more information than we have today, allowing for a more informed decision tomorrow.

---

Sorry, but you're my only real scum read left, and I get the feeling you have something to hide. You can either confirm someone's role or give us a reason to turn this game around, and you're doing neither at this point.

Cougy, deary, you should have more suspects than one. I already have given the result I wish to out on Darthy, and I have in the neighborhood quicktopic my other result so that should the need arise, they can reveal it.

Everything to be said of my role has already been said. We can afford to delay further debate until tomorrow when we have additional information at our disposal. Until such time, we should continue scumhunting among the VT claims. And of them, I find Jiffy to be the most questionable. However, I am not limiting myself to just him. I am looking elsewhere for scumbuddies, as there should be at least one additional sour player in the VT claims.

Right, this has officially stopped making any sense now...

Did you investigate PV or Yates; if the former then your chat here about being able to clear things up is clearly mental, if the latter then I have stuff to say on this... (particularly given the fact that the person you apparently secretly revealed it to would be the target of it...)

I'll hold off from putting you at L-1 but if you continue to refuse to explain yourself I will.


PV was roleblocked. Options:

1) SlySly shot someone other than Monkey (no idea who) and was stopped by bulletproof, PV was rb'ed.
2) SlySly didn't shoot and needs a short sharp testicle twist for misleading us all, PV was rb'ed.
3) SlySly shot someone but was rb'ed, Majiffy is investigation immune.
4) PV is scum, SlySly was rb'ed. (Unlikely. Though I want to hear from AuntJ.)

Nothing conclusive really but worth laying out.


This is becoming shambolic, AuntJ needs to explain things fast.

[Nostredeus]

Hmm, so there's a couple of options here:

1) AuntJ investigated PV, PV is a lie detector, in which case AuntJ is making no sense.
2) AuntJ investigated Yates, Yates is a Neighbouriser, in which case this doesn't sit right with me at all.
3) AuntJ investigated PV, PV is a PR but not an LD, AuntJ is keeping it quiet.
4) AuntJ investigated Yates, Yates is a PR but not a Neighbouriser, AuntJ is keeping it quiet.

Is the answer 3/4? (You don't need to confirm which.)

[Nostredeus]

5) AuntJ investigated Xelath, for some reason doesn't want to confirm him/her as a vig, AuntJ is keeping it quiet.


New question: Is the answer 3/4/5? (You don't need to confirm which)

[Nostredeus]

Also, an AJ investigation on the Neghborizer wouldn't give her any information she doesn't already have since, you know, she's neighborized. Ooops. Was I supposed to put that in spoiler tags?

Indeed, you can see why I'm wondering what is going on here... (I'm assuming number 5 is the right answer for what it's worth.)

[Nostredeus]

Yup, but I'll let AuntJ have a go at spinning this all.

[Nostredeus]

@AJ the E: Yes I know it makes no sense for AuntJ to investigate Yates, it also makes no sense to investigate a claimed vig, that combined with AuntJ's suggestion that she'd investigate Pere tonight means either she's done something that makes no sense or said something that makes no sense; I want her to make it make sense.

[Nostredeus]

IF

Mafia have an RB and an investigation immune Godfather I could see all the PRs being town aligned, but that's a fairly sizeable if.

I'm more inclined to look at player activity for reads in the short term at least:


Yesterday was a miss-lynch, I assume we all agree that there is some scum on the Monkey wagon? If not that's a pretty impressive Mafia play:

Monkey 8 -

Aj The Epic

,StrangerCoug,Majiffy,

Xelath

,Darthe,Nostredeus,Lurker ,

qwints

I've put all cleared players in green.

The next thing I'd say is I'm comfortable presuming Xelath is town for now, the case against that is the "why would scum give us a backup vig" thing and that's a pretty reasonable case but until I hear something more I'm unwilling to risk it. (Xelath gets 'yellow')

As far as I can see there is AT LEAST 1 scum probably 2 in the following:

SC, Majiffy, Darthe, Lurker and Myself

Given the 'green' status of Aj the E we can look at his/her wagon in a new light:

AJ 6 - Nostredeus,

I Am Innocent

,Aunt Jemina,

qwints

,

SlySly

,Lurker

Again at least 1 scum in:

Myself, AuntJ, Lurker.

Things aren't looking too hot for Lurker here... (Nor me, but given that I know my own alignment I'm not lynching myself.)

HoS: Lurker

(Lurker gets 'red' from now on.)


Let's look at the Daumis lynch:

Daumis123 9- StrangerCoug,Nostredeus,Majiffy,

Aj The Epic

,

Monkeyman

,

Lurker

,Devotress,

qwints

,PereV

If we assume 2 scum on that lynch, which I'd say is reasonable, the other scum is in:

SC, Majiffy, Myself, Devotress, PereV.


The above added with the stuff I said in #1676 and the presumption that all PRs are clean leads me to believe the game state is:

StrangerCoug (If it's a 4 scum game both SC and Majiffy are dirty, if it's a 3 scum game 1 of them.)
Nostredeus (Me)
Majiffy (If it's a 4 scum game both SC and Majiffy are dirty, if it's a 3 scum game 1 of them.)

Aj The Epic (Cleared by quints, confirmed town.)

Lurker

Devotress

PereV (Claiming LD)

Aunt Jemina (Claiming Rolecop)

Darthe (Cleared by AuntJ)

Xelath (Claiming Town Vig)

Inte (Claiming Neighbouriser)

If we assume AuntJ is scum:

StrangerCoug (Either 1 or none of these 3.)
Nostredeus (Me)
Majiffy (Either 1 or none of these 3.)

Aj The Epic (Cleared by quints, confirmed town.)

Lurker

Devotress (Either 1 or none of these 3.)

PereV (Claiming LD)

Aunt Jemina (Claiming Rolecop)

Darthe (Cleared by AuntJ)

Xelath (Claiming Town Vig)

Inte (Claiming Neighbouriser)

We'll see what happens when I do this: VOTE: Lurker

AuntJ needs to respond asap.

[Nostredeus]

Things aren't looking too hot for Lurker here... (Nor me, but given that I know my own alignment I'm not lynching myself.)

I had you as Town. So, you can imagine my disappointment when I read this post. How can you say "voting/doing X, Y, Z" is scummy "even though *I* did X, Y, and Z as Town?" It makes zero sense. You have just proven that your case is not valid because if you are being truthful about your alignment, you would know that Town could think the same way. This post only makes sense if you are scum trying to point out the TOWN members doing the same thing you are doing in an effort to get a mislynch.

This suddenly looks terrible.

Yeah you're right, as town I should only point out useful things that don't harm my own survival, that's a really good idea and I can't believe I didn't think of it; aim to survive as long as possible as opposed to scum hunt.

There's a reason I HoS'ed Lurker after making the point you have a problem with; it's suspicious but not conclusive, you do recognise it as suspicious right? My vote on the other hand was clearly cast in a separate part of the post with a very obvious intention and is not cast solely based on the content of that post.

[Nostredeus]

Does Darthe know one way or the other if he/she is a miller?

Nope


Are we going to make any decisions based on Darthe's potential miller status?

Nope


Does this matter at all?

Nope

[Nostredeus]

This is not really a great reaction and also a misrep of my point. I clearly don't have a problem with people scum hunting. I *DO* have a problem with people using logic to catch scum that they should know is provably false. Saying "doing X is scummy" then "I did X" then "I am not scum" means that doing X is NOT scummy since you DID X and you claim you AREN'T scum. The logic falls apart and is, therefore, not a valid argument. These are the types of arguments scum try to sneak through which is why it is now affecting my read on you.

Ah I see, you just didn't read my post; I point out two wagons, I suggest at least 1 scum will probably be on both of them, I then say the only two people on both of them are me and Lurker, I then mention that I know my own alignment, therefore Lurker is likely to be scum. Now, the actual options for refuting that you can put forward are these:

-With regards to the second wagon I point out AuntJ might be scum instead of Lurker; my response to this refutation would be "unlikely".
-With regards to the first wagon there are many other options than Lurker; my response to this refutation would be "yes but i specifically say there is either 1 or 2 scum on that wagon and also say that the suspicion of Lurker comes from the correlation with the second wagon".

That should speed the next few posts up and put that one to bed, on to the mental shit which has happened in the last couple of pages:


Is lynching Darthe super foolproof?

Nope, why? Well there's clearly an option missing in post #1780:

5. Darthe flips vanilla town. AuntJ is as cleared as she currently is. We gain nothing, scum laughs at us for allowing that one to happen.


The only actually decent thing to come out of this herp derping is scum has at least 1 person on darthe right now, and it isn't Aj the E.

What Epic and I are saying is that we don't believe Darthe because this is NOT a bastard game.
If Darthe has a miller "like" role, he would have been told about his special status.
Since Darthe claims he wasn't told about any nonstandard caveats to his role, and AuntJ has cleared him as "vanilla," he can't be a miller.

Logic states that he must be scum. If AuntJ is actually a Town Rolecop, he is a regular goon - which would explain the vanilla result.

lul wut? Logic very much does not state that Darthe must be scum and I'm really keen for you to spell this one out for me. If this bit falls through then option 5 is a strong possibility and this is a really silly lynch.

@Mod: I voted for Lurker a while back just to be sure though:

VOTE: Lurker

[Nostredeus]

Darthe flips vanilla town.

Okay. Since Darthe can't seem to answer this question and you seem to be ignoring it, can you respond to this on Darthe's behalf?

I don't believe for a second that the mod is going to give YOU AND ONLY YOU a fictional character for a name without assigning you some type of role, be it scum or miller. If you were truly VT - as you allege - why wouldn't the mod would tell you "by the way, you are the only person with a fictional character as a name?" Can you explain this??

If you can give me a reason to believe there is ANY chance Darthe is actually VT, I would like to hear it.

I have literally no idea why Darthe is a fictional character; perhaps it's because James Bond has multiple actors, perhaps it's just to mess with you, regardless I really don't care since names have absolutely nothing to do with the game at all meaning Darthe had zero incentive to lie about the nameclaim.

Regarding the miller thing, this is clearly overly confused and pretty ridiculous; Darthe was the only fictitious name claim, Darthe then remarks that this makes him a name claim miller -note Darthe never claimed to have the PR "miller"-, when Darthe said that I simply took it as "I have a fictional character, this means that when I name claimed I looked different to other players, I am therefore essentially a name claim miller; someone who flips 'scummy' but isn't.".

It's really not a thing and given Darthe could have just claimed Daniel Craig and never had this problem I'm not seeing the scummy motivation here.

Lurker

6 -

Nostredeus

,

Aunt Jemina

, ,qwints,Xelath,Daumis123,

SlySly

I'll be checking the three unknowns on this wagon either later tonight or tomorrow. Lurker wagon stalled because scum was already on it.

This caught my eye.

Yup, when the entire wagon is looking town you've got to ask yourself if Lurker is too, you also have to ask yourself what this means for Majiffy; does it make him/her more town or less?


If there are 4 or 5 scum in this game we're done, I'm holding out all hope for 3 or 4.


@AuntJ/PV/Yates: Were you three all in a neighbourhood last night? Did you co-ordinate night actions?

[Nostredeus]

@AuntJ: I'm still waiting for an answer to my question earlier; what happened last night, and this time cut the bullshit.


@Majiffy: They clearly didn't need to.

[Nostredeus]

The mod wouldn't even have to give scum fakeclaims, as it says in big bold red at the start of the first post:

Special rule - Anyone can be scum or town, someone evil in real life could be town, someone nice could be scum. This was randomly generated.

The important part being "This list was randomly generated"

This has to do with "good" and "evil" being alignment based, but doesn't say anything as to the actual person in regards to their notoriety and their proclivity towards a PR. For example, I could have the following list;

Hitler
Charles Manson
Superman
Bill Clinton
Che Guevara

Now they could be of any alignment, sure. But let's say - for the sake of simplification - they're all town. Hitler and Superman would definitely rank higher in terms of notoriety than would, say, Bill Clinton or Charlie Manson. Perhaps in the US these names are household, but what if you're in Portugal? I doubt Charlie Manson is a household name in Portugal. Hitler, on the other hand, probably is. Thus, since it appears the more notorious trend towards PRs, I'd find Hitler more likely a PR than Charlie Manson. This has nothing to do with alignment, and thus is not whatsoever held to the statement you quoted in regards to random selection.

At this point, it becomes obvious that safeclaims are still necessary.

Just when I thought his wagon couldn't reach any further... If ANY of this post turns out to be true then the mod flat out lied about the random allocation, either scum/PRs were actively given the more notorious characters or they were randomly assigned; I'm gunna go ahead and trust the mod.


Can we all stop being bonkers for at least the next 3 pages?


@AuntJ: Yet again... Who did you investigate last night, what was the result?

@Yates/Pere: If AuntJ doesn't answer the above please do so for her.

Dev yates Coug Lurk.

I've basically come to the same conclusion with a toss up between Yates/Majiffy.

Gunna watch some stargate, back later.

[Nostredeus]

There are two dead name claims and one that's not real. What does that mean?

Relevancy, please. I'm referring to notoriety, not living v. dead. The argument was simplified to illustrate a single point.

I'm going to consider this question slightly scummy for a multitude of reasons.

Just when I thought his wagon couldn't reach any further... If ANY of this post turns out to be true then the mod flat out lied about the random allocation, either scum/PRs were actively given the more notorious characters or they were randomly assigned; I'm gunna go ahead and trust the mod.

No, this is not true. ALIGNMENT was what was specifically being referred to in the original quoted statement by the mod. In my illustration, notoriety can play a part in distribution of weighted roles without the mod having lied.

Way too much of a reach for me to even entertain the idea of basing a lynch on it.

[Nostredeus]

Not an alt.

A lot of this stuff is totally unimportant, however Darthe has said true things those true things have been genuine Darthe is almost certainly town.

If Xelath is scum we're done, I'm flat out hoping to god he/she isn't because if that's the case this is over and it wont matter what we do, I'm therefore putting Xelath in the town box.

@AuntJ: You are going to get yourself lynched, which is fraking irritating because I'm almost sure you are town (or at least hoping so); stop it ffs.

People I can see a lynch on today:
Lurker
Devotress

[Nostredeus]

In fact sod that, make that just Lurker because it's the only case that is, you know, a case.

[Nostredeus]

So that plan is essentially dead in the water until you get round to fixing it, aka answering those questions I had.

[Nostredeus]

So that plan is essentially dead in the water until you get round to fixing it, aka answering those questions I had.

I thought I had addressed your concerns but here it is in a nutshell:

-With regards to the second wagon I point out AuntJ might be scum instead of Lurker; my response to this refutation would be "unlikely".
-With regards to the first wagon there are many other options than Lurker; my response to this refutation would be "yes but i specifically say there is either 1 or 2 scum on that wagon and also say that the suspicion of Lurker comes from the correlation with the second wagon".

I see where you are coming from. I fundamentally agree with your point about the scum makeup of the wagon [though that is a hypothesis and clearly not fact]. What I *don't* have is the confirmation bias you have regarding your own role. Essentially you are setting this up as a 1 vs 1 [You vs. Lurker] on a day we are perilously close to lylo and basing this case on a LOT of supposition that is unverifiable.

It's not confirmation bias, it's an actual confirmation; I can physically see what my alignment is, I'm not biased into assuming I'm town I know I'm town. The ONLY reaction to have to this situation is to lynch either me, Lurker or AuntJ if you agree, you're not trying to lynch one of us and that's looking really bad for you.

Logic very much does not state that Darthe must be scum and I'm really keen for you to spell this one out for me.

1. We all know Darthe is claiming to be VT.

Yup

2. We all know Darthe is the only person claiming to be a fictional character.

Yup

3. We all know Darthe has since claimed to be "like" a name claim miller.

Yup

4. We all know Darthe claimed the mod didn't tell him about any special conditions of his role.

Yup

5. *I* know the special conditions of *MY* role were clearly spelled out.

Yup

6. We all know AuntJ is claiming to have investigated him and returned VT.

Yup

7. We all know this is a nonbastard game.

Yup

Supposition in my case:
1. I suspect AuntJ, PV, and Xelath can verify that special conditions of their roles were sent to them in their role PM.
2. I suspect Darthe would have been told if he was being set up in the even of a name claim only.
3. I suspect this would have occurred because he is right about one thing - if his name claim were to stand out as it does, he WOULD BE effectively a miller.

Supposition number 1 can be verified like this:

@AuntJ, PV, and Xelath

can you verify that special conditions of your roles were sent to you in your role PM? Thanks.

I attempted to verify supposition number 2.

Spoiler:

Let me ask you this simple question; have you ever been in a game with a secret miller?

I have seen many games where a player had a slightly-suspicious aspect of their role PM and claimed their role was potentially miller-like.

Cool. So can you link me to the two or three most recent examples?

I have yet to see a case that would invalidate my supposition - especially taking site meta into account. So at this point it is as close to fact as you can get without mod verification.

Supposition 3 is really an extension of supposition 2.

Are any of these details misleading or inaccurate?

Stuff you still have to do:

1) Explain why in a game where Darthe received his name randomly this would have any relevance.
2) Explain why you think Darthe is claiming to be a PR.
3) If you can't do 2 then please explain why getting other PRs to confirm how their role PMs worked tells you anything about Darthe.
4) Why isn't it plausible that Darthe is a VT, AuntJ is legit and Darthe is James Bond?
5) Why don't all of your points 1-7 allow for (4)?

[Nostredeus]

Yeah so I think you guys are way off base with this:

1 Isn't true.
2 Isn't true.
3 Isn't true due to 2 not being true.
4 Is true but w.e
5 Is false because I saw the opportunity to make a logical paradox, nerdgasm.

@Mod: Any chance we can get a clarification on your opening post?

1) Is name flavor randomly assigned?
2) Are roles randomly assigned?
3) Is alignment randomly assigned?

If you can't answer those questions then any clarification you can make on the premise of the game/the OP would be welcome; games decided by player interpretation of OPs make everyone sad

Thanks.

[Nostredeus]

They can be randomly assigned by getting an RNG dice and rolling it for each name then assigning that name to the corresponding player; this is almost certainly what happened.

[Nostredeus]

If Lurker is a doctor he'll claim it when hitting L-1 so np there.

[Nostredeus]

Lurker claim, I want no shit in your response just an I am *insert role here* and who you protected each night, give us shit and you die k thnx?

AuntJ cut the shit and tell us who you targeted last night.

Devotress we're not lynching AuntJ.

Yates is feeling more town.

Votes on Lurker are good, votes on Devotress are less so but I can get behind it.


I'm becoming mildly miffed at some players, especially Lurkyer and AuntJ.

[Nostredeus]

Yeah fuck this noise... Someone do what AuntJ should have.

The only reason I'm concerned about a Devotress lynch is people I have as scum are, or have indicated they are, for it. Lurker on the other hand stalled, getting votes there is slower than getting info out of AuntJ and that's a fraking laugh...

[Nostredeus]

Thanks Jason.

Cool, so now we know for a fact what we knew previously can we drop the distractions and go ahead and lynch scum?

[Nostredeus]

v/LA until Sunday (snow permitting)

I might be able to throw a post or two out anyway though.

[Nostredeus]

A doctor?

Frak this noise...

Unvote: Lurker

The shit we gunna do now, that claim is as dodgy as frak but presumaballs we're gunna roll with it and see what night brings; bah, frak everything, there is literally no-one I don't hate in the world right now...

(Chat among yourselves, I'm thinking.) :/

[Nostredeus]

I want to know why you didn't save SlySly, what was your reasoning not to?

[Nostredeus]

Lurker's responses are very plausible.

True Story... In opposite land.

#1. It was kind of said in post #588 (on this page) http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 7#p4533787]post 588
That I was supposed to claim from among the power roles, so I did. Since AuntJ was the first to claim, It seemed just legit enough for me to protect her that night.
I figured that there may be a Jailkeeper to balance out 3 investigative roles.

Yeah fine, whatever you had no better option N1.

#2 Now the first thing that made me switch from AuntJ Was the fact that she was part of running a 6-figure wagon on me earlier. I figured that since the other power roles were dying that I would need to switch from the obvious to attempt to stop a kill. I also saw that a lie detector could investigate 2 people or more at a time, having a greater potential for catching mafia.

lul wud der fwuk. Explain to me in step by step English, not this poetry riddle shit, why you protecting qwints when no one knew of your existence is something the mafia should have been able to anticipate never mind stop?

@Lurker: Responses are in bold.

@Darthe if we were to lynch a claimed power role today, who would be your choice?

Er lol? Why would you ask that? Seriously this feels properly scum motivated. There are at least 3 scum (likely 4) in this game, if I'm not one of them (which I obviously don't think I am) then at least 1 of the un-partially-cleared VTs is scum; that's you, Majiffy or SC. (Alternatively 3/4 of the PRs are scum, but if that's the case it's AuntJ, Yates, Lurker and Pere/Xelath which is mental and I'm sad panda at how much they're going to clean our arses out with barbed wire if it is true.)

@Devotress: Why wouldn't I take out the scummiest of that trio? Why wouldn't I let scum take a punt at a PR and let Lurker take a punt at protecting one? Why would I even entertain the possibility of lynching a PR and then having one NK'ed versus just having one NK'ed?

Mental shit is flying around again I see.


So:

The current PRs get a free pass for now.
That leaves: Majiffy, Myself, Devotress, Darthe, or SC.
Ruling out myself and Darthe there's Devotress, Majiffy and SC.
@All: Choosing between them leaves me troubled, I'd like thoughts on those 5 players (I think 1/almost certainly 2/possibly 3, are scum.)


The doc claim proving to be true tells us stuff such as; AuntJ and Pere were not targeted by scum N1/N2.

[Nostredeus]

You gave two reasons for why you protected Pere:

The first was to somehow avoid "the obvious to attempt to stop a kill"; I'm asking what you mean.

The second is just untrue since when night began you knew Pere hadn't done the required set-up to investigate two people at once; so please explain that thought process also.

[Nostredeus]

So again, a lot of running in circles and worthless guessing, one of these people dies today:

Me
Majiffy
Stranger
Darthe
Devotress

Time to pick a side chaps, may I suggest

vote: Devotress

.

[Nostredeus]

What do we get if we lynch AuntJ?

Darthe's alignment wont be determined.

[Nostredeus]

Someone with a clue explain to me the wisdom of killing AuntJ a getting Pere 100% RB'ed tonight...

So, fraking, scum, motivated...

[Nostredeus]

Yup I'm meh okay to see Majiffy die, I'd prefer Devotress or potentially SC but if that's where things go and people herp derp themselves into ignoring my analysis on Devotress then w.e.

[Nostredeus]

Yup Devotress is scum.

[Nostredeus]

I've thought about it and decided Darthe is probably scum. I don't know how I feel about the other people on his wagon, because I've got some scum reads in there.
BUT, I have a hard time believing a town player would give so few shits that they can't even be bothered to remember what they posted literally 2 posts previously. A scum who is lying has an easier time forgetting their own stance and words by mistake.

vote Darthe

Vote Yates

For the record, I am not okay with the way Yates and my arguement ended yesterday.

I am okay with lynching Majiffy though.

Vote Majiffy

Vote Aunt Jemina

I'll get on that wagon.

Dat meatspin right there + the previous stuff on Devotress in definitely a tell one way or the other.

[Nostredeus]

Grinny, deary,

@AuntJ-

Please to add a little burn to the flapjacks, as per request.

@AuntJ-

If you have a Majiffy scumread still,

then let's see you start backing it up and pushing it.

Because if not him, and no one else gives a reason to override my previous reads, then it will be you.

Jiffy's youthful posting habits make it incredibly difficult to create a case. Bigger iso is not better, as there is only so much information this old lady can process.

I have already fed the fire with as much fuel as I have to give. I have explained my sweet-reads which have led to Jiffy being sour by POE, and I have given the elements of Jiffy's play in general which make him look like scum. If you wish, I can quote everything on him in one post.

It's this frak stack that almost, and might still, get you lynched. :/

[Nostredeus]

So far this 'optimal play' has been a string of assertions; the only real question is why you're pushing it, but that can wait for tomorrow.

Today Devotress, SC, Myself, Majiffy or Darthe is dying; it shouldn't be Darthe (or me) so feel free to build a case on one of the others.

[Nostredeus]

^This.

Also if Darthe flips VT we get nothing from this...

[Nostredeus]

^This.

Also if Darthe flips VT we get nothing from this...

Darthe flips scum, though, you're a prime suspect for his buddy.

Oh most def', but I'm not seeing it happening tbh.

[Nostredeus]

I hate you people.

Damn it man! You had the perfect opportunity to quote this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtKt2YJOnLA

[Nostredeus]

He's been convinced Darthe is town for quite a while now. I'm not exactly sure why. Might just be the AuntJ investigation saying he's vanilla?

How about we go ahead and allow me the chance to respond to a question directed at me? You just look a) silly, b) like you haven't read the case against you c) sketchy for putting words in someone's mouth.


To answer: #1676, #1757; also certain players have reacted badly to a Devotress wagon and certain other players have reacted positively.


But more generally let's be honest here, there is at least 2 scum chilling in the VTs right now.

Nostredeus, Majiffy, Devotress, StrangerCoug, Darthe

I'm not lynching myself.

Majiffy, Devotress, StrangerCoug, Darthe

I therefore think half of the above players are scum and half town; now it's just a case of working out who.


If Darthe is VT then Scum in this game are almost certainly: Devotress, Lurker, StrangerCoug, Majiffy.

Darthe I personally think is VT but if he's not then scum in this game are almost certainly: Devotress, Lurker, AuntJ, Darthe.


Devotress is a sure fire scum lynch imo; we could really do with one.

For what it's worth lynching and having Darthe flip VT is fine by me; losing a VT sucks but we're lylo either way tomorrow and this locks in my lynch list so w.e really.

[Nostredeus]

I've given reasoning for why Devotress is on both so I'll skip that.

Tonight sorts out Lurker's alignment but I've also given reasoning there so I'll skip that.


With regards to the second list if Darthe is scum it should be obvious why AuntJ is too, so that's done.


That just leaves the first list and why SC and Majiffy are on it.

-Straight up PoE, in this specific situation; Pere is clean, AuntJ is clean, Aj the E is clean, Darthe is clean, Xelath is clean - That leaves SC, Majiffy and Yates.


The real chat is between Majiffy and Yates for the 4th scumslot, but that's way, way down the road.


Come to think of it I can probably do this:

Vote: Darthe

With the express proviso that I expect this to be a VT flip and am only endorsing this for the information it provides.

[Nostredeus]

*Looks 2 posts previous where he gives the reasoning, realises why this is such an uphill struggle*

@Darthe: Nope, the only reason you being lynched today is positive is your connection to AuntJ/your current waggon, hence my proviso.

[Nostredeus]

^This.

Also if Darthe flips VT we get nothing from this...

Darthe flips scum, though, you're a prime suspect for his buddy.

Oh most def', but I'm not seeing it happening tbh.

I, unfortunately, am growing tired of all this wifom Nostre is playing. Every time I look, he plays this almost reverse "I'm town" card by going out of his way to admit to stuff like this. This appears to be a draw tactic to keep votes off of him, almost as if he's gone one step farther back from saying "I'm town" to saying "I'm potential scum" as a defense for himself so others feel more comfortable about his position. He's been doing this the whole game, but this post was the first that I really looked at and went "Oh god, we've missed him this long...". I'm about ready to tie him up. If he flips scum, it almost certainly clears Darthe, as he almost just tried to tie himself closer to darthe, who is/was about to get lynched.

Or, and here's a batshit insane idea, I actually think Darthe is town, whuuuuuut right?

Majiffy I gave reasoning for all members of those lists in those two posts, if you can't see that then *shrug*.

[Nostredeus]

Majiffy I gave reasoning for all members of those lists in those two posts, if you can't see that then *shrug*.

What the actual fuck is this.

It's probably the truth.

If you really want you could name a person from either list that I apparently haven't explained and I'll quote the relevant parts of those two posts; I quite enjoy making sarky players look silly.

[Nostredeus]

Or rather, before you give me a headache for continuing to not explain:

If Darthe is VT then Scum in this game are almost certainly: Devotress, Lurker, StrangerCoug, Majiffy.

Darthe I personally think is VT but if he's not then scum in this game are almost certainly: Devotress, Lurker, AuntJ, Darthe.

Explain why Darthe VT means, individually;


Devo scum

(Devo is scum for reasons stated regardless of darthe's alignment, I've spent the last week and a half trying to drag you all kicking and screaming to that but sadly scum have a big presence in the game. I can quote my reasoning for this, yet again, if you really need me too...)

Lurker scum

(Lurker is also scum for reasons stated regardless of darthe's alignment, the doc claim is terrible and we'll know one way or the other about Lurker after tonight. I can quote my reasoning for this if you really need me to...)

SC scum

(PoE: It's not Aj, Darthe being VT probably means AuntJ VT so it's not AuntJ, it's not Pere, it's not Xelath, it's not me; that leaves SC, majiffy and Yates.)

Myself scum

(PoE: It's not Aj, Darthe being VT probably means AuntJ VT so it's not AuntJ, it's not Pere, it's not Xelath, it's not me; that leaves SC, majiffy and Yates. We can discuss who we kill out of majiffy/Yates once we're down to them, there's chat to be had there I think.)

Explain why Darthe scum means, individually;

Devo scum

(As above)

Lurker scum

(As above)

AuntJ scum

(If you honestly need this answering there's no hope for you in life never mind this game...)

We'll kill Darthe, he'll flip VT; we'll know how derp everyone was, we'll kill Lurker once we can all see how fakeclaim he is, then bump off Devotress, then SC, then decide between Yates/Majiffy. Then celebrate.

Alternatively Darthe might flip scum, lol, and we'll kill AuntJ, then Devotress, then Lurker and all celebrate.

[Nostredeus]

We'll kill Darthe, he'll flip VT; we'll know how derp everyone was, we'll kill Lurker once we can all see how fakeclaim he is, then bump off Devotress, then SC, then decide between Yates/Majiffy. Then celebrate.

If at least one of Darthe/AuntJ isn't scum, I will buy you a pony and change my sig to anything you want for a month to show how right you were and how wrong I was...

Alternatively Darthe might flip scum, lol, and we'll kill AuntJ, then Devotress, then Lurker and all celebrate.

Same scenario if Darthe flips secret miller or something like that, btw.

If you think this is likely, do me a solid and tell me what information you think lynching Darthe gets us?

[Nostredeus]

Hey...
Hey Nos...
Hey...

WHEN I ASK YOU FOR REASONS, DON'T SAY "OH I CAN GO QUOTE THAT IF YOU REALLY WANT", JUST FUCKING DO SO. THANKS.

God you're intolerable.

Whoops, my bad, I thought you'd have the ability to click back a page and scroll up; sadly not here you go:


This is you asking a question in post 2189...

Can you explain the thinking behind each list?

Here's the response, exactly 1 post previous in 2188...

He's been convinced Darthe is town for quite a while now. I'm not exactly sure why. Might just be the AuntJ investigation saying he's vanilla?

How about we go ahead and allow me the chance to respond to a question directed at me? You just look a) silly, b) like you haven't read the case against you c) sketchy for putting words in someone's mouth.

To answer: #1676, #1757; also certain players have reacted badly to a Devotress wagon and certain other players have reacted positively.

But more generally let's be honest here, there is at least 2 scum chilling in the VTs right now.

Nostredeus, Majiffy, Devotress, StrangerCoug, Darthe

I'm not lynching myself.

Majiffy, Devotress, StrangerCoug, Darthe

I therefore think half of the above players are scum and half town; now it's just a case of working out who.


If Darthe is VT then Scum in this game are almost certainly: Devotress, Lurker, StrangerCoug, Majiffy.

Darthe I personally think is VT but if he's not then scum in this game are almost certainly: Devotress, Lurker, AuntJ, Darthe.


Devotress is a sure fire scum lynch imo; we could really do with one.

For what it's worth lynching and having Darthe flip VT is fine by me; losing a VT sucks but we're lylo either way tomorrow and this locks in my lynch list so w.e really.

He's been convinced Darthe is town for quite a while now. I'm not exactly sure why. Might just be the AuntJ investigation saying he's vanilla?

How about we go ahead and allow me the chance to respond to a question directed at me? You just look a) silly, b) like you haven't read the case against you c) sketchy for putting words in someone's mouth.

To answer: #1676, #1757; also certain players have reacted badly to a Devotress wagon and certain other players have reacted positively.

To answer: #1676, #1757; also certain players have reacted badly to a Devotress wagon and certain other players have reacted positively.

#1676, #1757; also certain players have reacted badly to a Devotress wagon and certain other players have reacted positively.

Oh look it was there after all, so fraking stupid it hurts...


Can you all stop being disgustingly slow and either recognise Darthe is a VT and lynch Devotress or get on with lynching Darthe, this is becoming really dull.

[Nostredeus]

I'm starting to have questions about Nostredeus's vague answers.

I'm shocked.

[Nostredeus]

Majiffy 3 -

PeregrineV

,AuntJ,Devotress,
Aunt J 3 -

Xelath

,Lurker,

AJ

Darthe 3- ,Yates,StrangerCoug,Majiffy,

Look, we've got three wagons going. Why would we start a fourth, Nos? This is bad to have so many wagons going at once. To be honest, one of these has to be scum. I'm leaning away from the Darthe wagon, and more to Majiffy if we had to lynch one of these (But I still think that Auntie J's alignment is a fraud, her role is not). I think Nostre in his last few posts has just proven himself scum. I also know that he's not on Darthe's alignment (day 1 makes that clear). Anybody want to take down the highest possible chance for scum with me and take out Nostre? I don't want to start another counter wagon to sit it at two or three, but if some people want to help me, let's string up Nostre today. His actions this whole game have been weird, with these indirect responses and the constant "I'm town in a scenario where you generally find scum".

Town win if: You lynch Devotress or Darthe then actually do what Darthe/I are suggesting.

Town lose if: You lynch me then decide "oh well Nos and Darthe just must be on different alignments so Darthe is for sure scum *insert derplynch here* oh shit we lost."


If you're on the AuntJ or majiffy wagon get off of it and do something useful.


This game needs to end.

[Nostredeus]

Can you all stop being disgustingly slow and either recognise Darthe is a VT and lynch Devotress or get on with lynching Darthe, this is becoming really dull.

This is really suspect. It's like you know Darthe will flip VT, yet you advocate both him and Devotress, whom the wording implies you think is scummier, for the lynch. Why are you doing this, even as a compromise?

FoS: Nostredeus

Devotress is a sure fire scum lynch, people don't want to lynch devotress they want to lynch Darthe or AuntJ; I'd rather the former of those two since devotress is off the table. It's really not that complicated, though I can see why you'd want to paint it as such.

[Nostredeus]

@Nos-

Also, you should be voting Darthe and support your plan. Just saying.

I am; see: #2190

But just in case that got missed:

VOTE: Darthe

[Nostredeus]

I can not fraking believe I'm about to do this... The stuff I'll put in this post, whilst true, is not really essential reading for anyone; if you skipped AuntJ's wall feel free, and I recommend you, to skip this one too.

Day 1 Vote Count 1

Aunt Jemima 4 -

SlySly

,Nostredeus, StrangerCoug,

Xelath

This bandwagon has two flipped town members already. To say it is all town would be extreme ignorance.

This is hugely inconclusive; either AuntJ could be scum, SC and I could both be scum, one of us could be scum, or AuntJ and one of us could be scum. All of those options are possible, this doesn't tell us anything more than "There is at least 1 scum in AuntJ/SC/Nost" which is something we all knew.

Day 1 Vote Count 2

Aunt Jemima 3 -

SlySly

,

Xelath

, Devotress

Cougy and Nossy have both hopped off, with Devvy hopping on.

This presumably just tells us that Devotress should be added to the AuntJ/SC/Nost list, which is again something we all knew.

Day 1 Vote Count 5

Xelath 7 -

IamInnocent

,Aunt Jemina,

CommieX

,

Shotty

,Nostredeus,

MonkeyMan576,2birds1stone

Monkeyman 3-

SlySly

,StrangerCoug,

Xelath

nostredeus 2 - Darthe,Majiffy
Aunt Jemima 1 - Devotress,
Daumis123 1 - Aj The Epic
2Birds 1 - Lurker,

Not Voting

inte, Daumis123

The Xelly wagon had to have scum on it, but the only name on there unconfirmed is Nossy.

Not at all, in fact you could be scum; which again adds nothing to our knowledge.

Day 1 Vote Count 6

[/b]
Xelath 4 - Aunt Jemina,

I Am Innocent

,Nostredeus,

Monkeyman

MonkeyMan 4 - StrangerCoug,

SlySly

, Majiffy,

Xelath

We know that both these wagons were on town. Notice once more that Nossy is on Xelly. Notice also that the Monkey wagon has both Cougy and Jiffy on it.

And again, you're also on Xelath and SC/Majiffy are on Monkey; so fine, add Majiffy to that list of potential scum if you want?

Day 1 Vote Count 7

[/b]
Xelath 5 - Aunt Jemina,

I Am Innocent

,Nostredeus,

Monkeyman,Daumis123

MonkeyMan 5 - StrangerCoug, Majiffy,

Xelath

,Devotress,

Aj The Epic

Not Voting

drmyshotgun, Lurker, inte, SlySly,

CommieX

, Darthe

Both wagons have grown to five. Critically, Sly has abandoned the wagon and Devvy has hopped on.

Words... Lots. Content... Zero.

Day 1 Vote Count 8

MonkeyMan 5 - StrangerCoug, Majiffy,

Xelath

,Devotress,

Aj The Epic

Lurker 4 - Nostredeus,Aunt Jemina,

I Am Innocent,qwints

Xelath 2 - Monkeyman,Daumis123,

Not Voting

Lurker, inte, SlySly, CommieX, Darthe

The Lurky wagon forms. Once more, Nossy is present.

Once more, AuntJ is present. Do you see where I'm going with this? The IMPORTANT thing with this wagon is that Lurker could be scum here, and likely is.

Day 1 Vote Count 11

Lurker 6 - Nostredeus,Aunt Jemina, ,

qwints

,

Xelath

,

Daumis123,SlySly

Daumis123 2 - StrangerCoug,Monkeyman
MonkeyMan 2 - Majiffy,,Devotress,
Xelath 1 - I Am Innocent
Nostredeus 1 - Aj The Epic

Not Voting

inte, PereV, Darthe, Lurker

The peak of the Lurky wagon.

Yup, either Lurker or yourself is scum, the rest of the scum team are off the wagon; this is totally consistent with my scum team theory and is something I've pointed out and used in support of it already.

Day 1 Vote Count 13

AJ 6 - Nostredeus,

I Am Innocent

,Aunt Jemina,

qwints,SlySly

,

Lurker

Lurker 2 - Xelath,Daumis123,
Daumis123 2 - StrangerCoug,Monkeyman,
MonkeyMan 1 - Devotress,
Qwints 1 - Aj The Epic

Not Voting

inte,PereV,Majiffy,Darthe

Here is the AJ wagon at its first peak. Nossy is once again present.

Again, so are you... I'm happy to say scum is in "lurker, AuntJ, Nost" because, you know, it's what I've been saying all along.

Day 1 Vote Count 13

Qwints 5- [color=green[Aj The Epic[/color],Devotress,

Monkeyman

,Majiffy,

Daumis123

,
Lurker 1 - Xelath,
Daumis123 1 - StrangerCoug,
Devotress 1 - Nostredeus

Not Voting

inte,PereV,Darthe

The peak of the qwinny wagon. Note how many unconfirmed players are present.

Yeah, I know, because Devotress is clearly scum... I've also mentioned this VC before, so this is just regurgitation. Importantly though... Why have you deleted the AJ wagon from this VC? You know the one that incriminates yourself/Lurker? "AJ 5 - I Am Innocent,Aunt Jemina,qwints,SlySly,Lurker"

Day 1 Vote Count 14

Daumis123 4 - StrangerCoug,Nostredeus,Majiffy,-

Aj The Epic

Qwints 2 - ,Devotress,Monkeyman,
Lurker 1 - Xelath,

Not Voting

inte,PereV

The Daummy wagon begins to form. Note the number of unconfirmed players on it.

Again, no new information.

Day 1 Vote Count 15

Daumis123 9- StrangerCoug,Nostredeus,Majiffy,

Aj The Epic,Monkeyman

,

Lurker

,Devotress,

qwints

,

PereV

The lynch. Every VT claims aside from Darthy is present.

Yup because there is at least 1 scum in the VT claims, like I've been saying, for pages and pages.

Day 2 Vote Count 1

I am Innocent 3- StrangerCoug,

Xelath

,Nostredeus,
Qwints 2- Devotress,Darthe

The lead wagons are both on town. Note once more the composition of them.

Again, no new information.

Day 2 Vote Count 2

Monkey 3

Aj The Epic

,StrangerCoug,Majiffy,
Qwints 2- Devotress,Darthe,
Majiffy 2 - Aunt Jemina,Nostredeus,

The Monkey wagon forms. Qwinny and Jiffy serve as the other main wagons.

You're literally just quoting VCs at this point with no reasoning aren't you?

Day 2 Vote Count 3

Monkey 6

Aj The Epic

,StrangerCoug,Majiffy,

Xelath

,Darthe,

qwints

Majiffy 2 - Aunt Jemina,Nostredeus,

The Monkey wagon explodes. The Jiffy wagon does not.

Hold on, are you saying this counts towards clearing you? Because if so why doesn't it count towards clearing me? (I happen to thing it doesn't count towards clearing anyone btw)

Day 2 Vote Count 4

Monkey 6

Aj The Epic

,StrangerCoug,Majiffy,

Xelath

,Darthe,Nostredeus,
Majiffy 4 - Aunt Jemina,

PeregrineV

,

MonkeyMan576

,Devotress,
Xelath 1 - I Am Innocent,

Not voting

qwints,Lurker, inte

Critically, Nossy abandons the Jiffy wagon in favor of the Monkey wagon just as it gained traction.

Oh I see, you're saying I jumped for the easier wagon here. I mean that totally ignores all of the actual content around this VC but run with it yo.

Day 2 Vote Count 8

Monkey 8

Aj The Epic

,StrangerCoug,Majiffy,

Xelath

,Darthe,Nostredeus,Lurker ,

qwints

Majiffy 3 - Aunt Jemina,PeregrineV,Devotress,
Lurker 1 - I Am Innocent,
Darthe 1 - Monkeyman

Not voting

inte

The lynch. The Jiffy wagon never picked up, while the Monkey wagon is littered with unconfirmed names.

Yeah, that doesn't clear you it just potentially incriminates Majiffy/clears Yates, I am Innocent and Monkey.

Day 3 Vote Count 1

Aunt J 4 - Yates,StrangerCoug,Devotress,

Xelath

Majiffy 1 - AuntJ,

Immediately, I am put to L-2.

Right? So what does this mean in waffle land? Is this saying SC/Yates/Devotress are scum? Is it saying you're not? What's your point?

Day 3 Vote Count 2

Darthe 3 -

AJ

,Yates,StrangerCoug
Aunt J 2 - Devotress,

Xelath

Majiffy 1 - AuntJ,

The Darthy and Auntie wagons lead. The Jiffy wagon is ignored.

FUCK THIS IS DULL AS SHIT TO READ, WHY DID I START...

Day 3 Vote Count 3

Darthe 4 -

AJ

,Yates,StrangerCoug,Majiffy
Aunt J 3 - Devotress,

Xelath,Lurker

Majiffy 1 - AuntJ,
Lurker 1 - Nostredeus
Devotress 1 - Darthe

Not Voting

PeregrineV

The same, but more.

"The same but more" Are you kidding me, you made a separate quote to say "Another vote was added guys, the number went up by one"...

Day 3 Vote Count 4

Darthe 4- ,Yates,StrangerCoug,Majiffy,Devotress
Devotress 3 - ,

AJ

,Darthe,AuntJ,
Aunt J 2 - ,Xelath,Lurker
Lurker 2 - Nostredeus,PeregrineV

The makeup of the Devvy wagon is extremely sweet, and the opposite for the Darthy wagon. There is also the Lurky wagon.

LMFAO "The people on this wagon are all good, oh btw I also happen to be part of that good wagon but don't look at that". An actual inference from this that can be made is that Darthe/Devotress are >probably< not the same alignment, which will be pretty evident when Darthe flips town.

Day 3 Vote Count 8

Majiffy 3 -

PeregrineV

,AuntJ,Devotress,
Aunt J 3 -

Xelath

,

Lurker

,

AJ

Darthe 3- ,Yates,StrangerCoug,Majiffy,
Devotress 1 - Nostredeus
Yates 1 - Darthe

The Jiffy wagon replaces the Devvy wagon. The Auntie wagon reforms, and the Darthy wagon is still strong.

Bored.

Majiffy 2 -

PeregrineV

,AuntJ
Aunt J 3 -

Xelath

,

Lurker

,

AJ

Darthe 4- ,Yates,StrangerCoug,Nostredeus,Darthe
Devotress 1 - Majiffy
Not Voting
Devotress

The Jiffy wagon has faded and so has the Devvy wagon. The Darthy wagon has once more taken the lead.

Yup, the Devotress has sadly faded.

My replies are in bold, I'm off to watch TV... Fuck that was a waste of my time.

[Nostredeus]

Xelath isn't shooting AuntJ tonight, why would we do that; either AuntJ makes a claim about someone's role/alignment tomorrow which will be telling or AuntJ claims to have been roleblocked meaning Pere/Xelath can't be. Also, I cba to do the maths, if we lose a townie with this lynch, Xelath shoots a townie, and scum kill a townie scum win right? Or is it still LyLo tomorrow?

[Nostredeus]

11 players

4 scum

7 town

Lose 3 town and we're down to 4 town.

Scum win amirite?

[Nostredeus]

Yup.

[Nostredeus]

Yates - Probably Town
StrangerCoug - Scum
Nostredeus - Town
Majiffy - Meh
Xelath - Town
Lurker - Scum (Either that or got roleblocked last night; if Lurker claims not to have been roleblocked Lurker can explain why the protect wasn't on AJ.)
Devotress - Scum
AuntJ - Meh
PeregrineV - Town


That's where I'm at, I'll wait for the PRs to say things before I vote; if this is done carefully, if we kill off the most competent scum early then their last scum should be easy to read.

[Nostredeus]

Well yes, obviously Lurker's protect might have failed for some other reason; we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

I'll make a case when, like I said in that post, I've heard back from the PRs.

[Nostredeus]

Wow this day is moving so fast I can barely keep up.

^

[Nostredeus]

Everyone chill the fuck out... 17 days.

In other news SC just got confirmed as scum; if SC was town at L-2 SC would be dead right now and the game would be over.


It comes down to this:

If you believe AuntJ/Lurker:

Scum: SC, Devotress, Majiffy, Yates (Less confident about the last two but I see no real alternative and need more time to work on those.)


If you don't:

Scum: SC, Devotress, AuntJ, Lurker.


In either case SC/Devotress feels like a scum read to me, I've made my case on both and I'm happy to see where our chips lie after an SC/Devotress lynch. (especially given the votes today and the lack of townloss due to them.)

Thoughts?


PS: AuntJ is right, stop voting people until town as a whole decides what to do, the only reason these quick votes on SC/Devotress haven't ended in a town loss is they're both scum which is thankfully a lucky break we just caught.

[Nostredeus]

Meh I probably would have hammered that if you hadn't, let's see what plays out.

If we survive to tomorrow everyone chill the fuck out when the day starts before you go ahead and hand the game to scum kthnx?

[Nostredeus]

This confirms lurker.

Onto business: We're lynching Yates, yah?

Lmao

[Nostredeus]

I'll wait to hear back from the PRs, I don't want to give AuntJ any hints if I can avoid it but basically I think the game is potentially sewn up.

[Nostredeus]

Lurker we need the name of the person you protected.

[Nostredeus]

If we kill a townie tonight and scum shoot a townie we lose; we'd be at 3-3. It's Mylo, we could no lynch but I don't think there will be any need once the PRs come back with info. *Looks at Lurker, AuntJ and Pere*

[Nostredeus]

(There is a very good case for a no lynch by the way, I'm just saying we shouldn't go ahead and sign ourselves up for it yet.)

[Nostredeus]

This confirms lurker.

Onto business: We're lynching Yates, yah?

Absolutely not.

Clarification on if "absolutely not" was in response to lurker being cleared, lynching yates, or both?

*Nudges Xelath to ignore Devotress and wait until after the PRs check in before answering questions about opinions on specific players.*

[Nostredeus]

Great shitposting. What is the danger in expressing an opinion, even if PR results later change your mind? You're actually advocating we all sit here with our thumbs up our asses doing nothing.

Yup, that's exactly what I'm saying town should do; they should shut the hell up until the PRs provide us with the results from their night actions. 1 mistake means a town loss, and I'm assuming the reason you have a problem with taking due care is that you've realised what I've realised but can't say it given the side of the game you're on.

Lurker/AuntJ/Pere we need your night action results asap so we can wrap this up.

[Nostredeus]

Cool, thanks Lurker. Just waiting on AuntJ and Pere and we can legit win this, I'll explain shortly.

[Nostredeus]

Just waiting on AuntJ, this is so perfect imho.

[Nostredeus]

Right, everyone stop being bad. AuntJ, ccut the shit, how did Pere lie?

[Nostredeus]

Big Old Arm of Suspicion: Devotress, Lurker, Majiffy/Pere

(The last bit obviously being contingent on the chat going on now.)


@Pere: Could you tell me exactly which statement you investigated of Majiffy and what the answer was; given the possibility of an investigation immune player (from earlier in the game) specifics are important before we vote.

@AuntJ: Do the same...

[Nostredeus]

@Pere: Could you tell me exactly which statement you investigated of Majiffy and what the answer was; given the possibility of an investigation immune player (from earlier in the game) specifics are important before we vote.

Sure.

I am town.

And my results were pretty much as stated in 1157.

Interesting, so last night you investigated Majiffy after the RB died and got a "no result" meaning either Majiffy is investigation immune or you're scum? (Not saying I'm leaning either way on that yet, I want AuntJ to post, I'm just saying those are the only two options right?)


So to come clean with it all I basically think Devotress/Lurker confirmed themselves as scum over the last two days. I think Lurker fake claimed doctor, I think last night the scum team chose to no kill and I think Devotress walked in here and fucked their plan up by pushing this "okay Lurker is confirmed as a doctor" crap. Here's why: If Lurker is a doctor there is zero reason to target Xelath last night.

Scum would on no conceivable conception of a 'good plan' target Xelath, at most they take out a confirmed townie making the game a bit harder for us but beyond that there's no reason to do so. Xelath wasn't going to shoot, and Xelath couldn't expose any scum players with a night action. Instead scum had a free shot at an investigative role with what they would have perceived (if Lurker was a doctor) a 50/50 chance of hitting them, that's an investigation prevented and a basically confirmed townie out of the game at the same time. Now the only out here is if you're scum (Pere), in which case they wouldn't have shot you and they'd expect Lurker to target AuntJ, but like I said we really need to hear back from AuntJ to work this out. BUT EVEN THEN, even if scum figured AuntJ couldn't be killed AND Pere were scum so decided to shoot someone other than AuntJ the obvious fraking choice is Lurker; take out the doc, let Xelath who isn't able to shoot live a round and move swiftly on.

Something is clearly not stacking up and AuntJ needs to post.

[Nostredeus]

Interesting, so last night you investigated Majiffy after the RB died and got a "no result" meaning either Majiffy is investigation immune or you're scum? (Not saying I'm leaning either way on that yet, I want AuntJ to post, I'm just saying those are the only two options right?)

No, I did not investigate Majiffy last night.

You see, this is why it helps for everyone to be clear and precise instead of doing weird riddle stuff; I and no doubt the majority of players think you did from what you said.

Is it too much to ask for both yourself and AuntJ to say "I took action X, it ended in result Y"?

Everything else I said applies and when you guys get round to telling us what the frak is going on I'll re-evaluate the third FoS I stated.

[Nostredeus]

NO
ONE
ELSE
IS
TO
VOTE
UNTIL
AUNTJ
EXPLAINS
HERSELF

FFS, how is this hard...

[Nostredeus]

Well this does change things considerably but even so I think the game can now be solved; either AuntJ and Pere are scum, AuntJ is scum and Pere is town or both are town.

I would be pretty fraking surprised if both AuntJ and Pere are scum so Pere is imo confirmed town. Making Devotress confirmed town.

Nostredeus (Me)
Devotress (Town)
PeregrineV (Town)
Xelath (Town)


Leaving:

Yates
AuntJ
Lurker
Majiffy

To solve we need some facts:

If Lurker is scum AuntJ is too, unless we have a scum doctor, but really?
Majiffy looks to be scum given yesterday and his current survival (though less so regarding the latter).

That leaves:

Option 1) Yates, AuntJ, Majiffy
Option 2) AuntJ, Lurker, Majiffy
Option 3) AuntJ, Pere, Lurker (Which would be pretty mental)
Outside option 4) Yates, AuntJ, Lurker (Which again, I doubt.)

Given 1 and 2 Majiffy is a decent lynch, Lurker will protect Pere guaranteeing an investigation on AuntJ.

AuntJ coming up town clears Lurker too and if Pere dies we string Lurker up.

AuntJ investigates Xelath just to keep things neat and tidy?


The result of that all decides our course of action between option 1 and 2, that is if we assume I'm town but you can investigate that the next night without any danger of losing the game so if I wasn't this would be a pretty shit gambit.

To make sure no one thinks I'm doing dodgy shit I should be clear: The risk here is that I could be scum (I'm not) and pushing a mislynch on Majiffy; but frankly you've got to make a judgement call there, and if I was scum I'd sit back and watch Majiffy die without saying anything since that's where the town is going.

Thoughts?

[Nostredeus]

The above is why you shouldn't investigate Yates given the twofer you get with AuntJ/Lurker.

[Nostredeus]

Actually maybe I have that backwards, maybe it is better to investigate Lurker?

[Nostredeus]

To make sure no one thinks I'm doing dodgy shit I should be clear: The risk here is that I could be scum (I'm not) and pushing a mislynch on Majiffy; but frankly you've got to make a judgement call there, and if I was scum I'd sit back and watch Majiffy die without saying anything since that's where the town is going.

May I be the first to point out that half of your options have Majiffy as town, and the other half have him as scum. Is this an example of "not saying anything"?

I mean yeah... In the world where I didn't put I don't buy this next to the two 'Majiffy town' options.

[Nostredeus]

Hmmmm, so you're saying slow it all down:

Today: Lynch Majiffy (Assume a scum flip)

Tonight: Lurker protects Pere, if Pere dies Lurker is confirmed scum and AuntJ is confirmed scum, if Lurker dies then Pere and AuntJ live. Pere investigates Yates? AuntJ Investigates Xelath.


Tomorrow: Lynch either Lurker, Yates or me based on the previous result? I know I'm town so Both Lurker and Yates can't be.


I can go for that, I see the plan, it works nicely. If they no kill then w.e Yates gets caught, then the same again and so on.

Yup, game solved, well played Pere.



Then it's just a question of how confident are we on the Majiffy flip? I'm pretty confident but if it's a town flip Xelath should probably take a shot at one of the scum candidates for a hail mary pass? Thoughts?

[Nostredeus]

To make sure no one thinks I'm doing dodgy shit I should be clear: The risk here is that I could be scum (I'm not) and pushing a mislynch on Majiffy; but frankly you've got to make a judgement call there, and if I was scum I'd sit back and watch Majiffy die without saying anything since that's where the town is going.

May I be the first to point out that half of your options have Majiffy as town, and the other half have him as scum. Is this an example of "not saying anything"?

I mean yeah... In the world where I didn't put I don't buy this next to the two 'Majiffy town' options.

OK, if Lurker is scum, why did scum no-kill last night?

To confirm Lurker as town?

I agree with your plan, I can see the logic, make it so bro.

[Nostredeus]

I mean personally the reason I'm game for it is that it wont matter:

Three of; Nostredeus, Majiffy, Lurker, Yates, AuntJ are scum.

I know it isn't me, so that means I only have a 1 in 4 chance of mislynching here. I wont be lynching AuntJ or Lurker because they're useful PRs and the plan covers them. That leaves Majiffy or Yates, I might as well pick one. If I pick wrong, say majiffy flips town, then Xelath takes a shot at one of the remaining members of that group.

To sum: If Majiffy is scum we win, if Majiffy is town Xelath takes a shot at one of the 4 players left and we either win or lose based on the alignment of the target.


So all of this chat literally doesn't matter, we can swap Majiffy out for Yates or me if you guys really want but the plan is exactly the same in those situations.


So yup; out of Yates/Majiffy I'm marginally more worried about Majiffy. As such and since I think we have this nailed down:

Lynch Majiffy.
Lurker protects Pere, failure to do so results in an admission of guilt; Lurker does not try and unnecessarily WIFOM the scum team like a fucktard.
Pere investigates Yates.
AuntJ investigates Xelath.
If Majiffy flips town Xelath shoots at one of: Yates, AuntJ, Nostredeus, Lurker.

Before I vote can someone just check the action resolution on that to avoid any problems if Majiffy does flip town?

@Mod:The vig shot would still go off even if they target Xelath right? As in the action resolution order would be vig shot before mafia kill in situations where that is applicable?

[Nostredeus]

Or, Instead of all this stuff I don't care about someone could check the action resolution order for me, I've looked and I think it's fine but a second opinion would help right?

P-Edit: We've gone over this already; doing so makes players in the town say things like "Why would Lurker be scum if he stopped the NK last night?". If I was scum with a fake claimed doc I'd think a no kill is a pretty decent gambit after we lose a RB.

[Nostredeus]

Nostrudeus is the scum. At least one of aunt Jemina and yates is scum, and I connect Nostrudeus to both of them.

Also you need to actually reread yesterday and don't go soley by vote counts.

I mean for fucks sake, before I'd agree to lynch strangercoug I made sure that someone would acknowledge to me what Nostrudeus did, and I'm pretty sure YOU WERE THE GUY WHO RESPONDED TO ME. And now you don't remember it happening, really?

So let me get this straight; because honestly I'd love to hear how this fits with your thought process, the convolution required will at least be entertaining.

You think I came on in Yesterday and saw SC was about to get lynched, decided not to vote you but instead decided to point out that SC must be scum by virtue of the voting situation (Yeah, read yesterday that was me) bussed my partner who was a RB so that today I could then use the fact that the SC died to start a discussion about solving the game that eventually lead to Pere creating a basically foolproof town win from it? I also spent today and yesterday making sure no one made stupid mistakes for the banter of it I take it?

You're an idiot.

The reason yesterday's wagon stalled is because scum were off of it, and the reason they were off of it so long and refused to bus is because it wasn't just any old expendable scum member it was the RB. No scum, no matter how much they want to bus picks their RB when there are another two less valuable options; unless you have a bloody good reason for why I'd intentionally bus the RB giving town a confirmed cop right when it could lose scum a, by all accounts, won game then you're talking shit.

[Nostredeus]

Also #2506 loses town the game even if one of AuntJ/me is scum, derp less k?

[Nostredeus]

You want town credit for bussing your buddy when he was Gaurenteed to get lynched that day dead man walking? You're the idiot.

LOLWUT? In what way was he a guaranteed lynch, why didn't I rock on in and start yelling at the derps that quickly voted to stop voting then followed Majiffy onto your wagon? You've got your cause and effect backwards, I caused SC to be a guaranteed lynch, I didn't lynch him because he was already gunna die.

[Nostredeus]

...eventually lead to Pere creating a basically foolproof town win from it?

Laff

Yeah, Yeah, you might be town and we might lose, I know, but we're down to the wire with 3 scum alive it was never gunna be pretty.

[Nostredeus]

He was at L-2, with only one possibly scummy person voting for him. Everyone was gaurenteed to realize he was scum. You didn't solve any great mystery that the rest of our simple brains couldn't figure out.


The 'fool proof plan for winning" still works out if we lynch you instead of Majiffy right?

Oh I see, you all would have figured it out according to you so I don't get town cred for it, well in that case I suppose we can just give up on ever scumhunting / townhunting in this game amirite? Why would I have sped things up as scum, if it would have taken you time to work it out I clearly would have had options such as "STOP FUCKING VOTING FOR PEOPLE BEFORE SCUM QUICKHAMMER" which I guarantee would have worked, or are you trying to tell me you were busy typing out that information but I just beat you to it by minutes?


Yup, you guys are welcome to go for it but I'm town and it's pretty bad you can't see that given the obvious nature of the situation.


This is legit the most aggravating game of mafia ever.

[Nostredeus]

Bored, checked the Natural Action Resolution myself, there is no problem, here we go:

Vote: Majiffy

Crosses fingers for a scum flip and an easy win.

[Nostredeus]

Lmao, and as of that we now have the scum team confirmed. Play on, lynch Majiffy and let's rock and roll.

[Nostredeus]

Screw this...

VOTE: PV

Guy has been a sponge this whole game and all of a sudden we are in mylo and he decides this is the time to take over the game? This smells like a scum trap and you should be unhappy with yourself for buying this BS. PV, Devo, Lurker scum team. I realize no one is going to listen to me but I want that posted for post game.

Good game guys.

A team with Pere on it HAS to have AuntJ on it; your hail mary is not hailing enough.

[Nostredeus]

Devotress... Xelath... End this already.

[Nostredeus]

Woah, this is starting to get messy, messy leads to an unnecessary town loss... If any of you guys are town and vote anyone but Majiffy I'm going to be fucking livid if it costs us the game, do not make the last 4 months a waste of time guys...

[Nostredeus]

Pere investigates Yates.
Lurker protects Pere.
AuntJ investigates Xelath.
And if Majiffy flips town Xelath shoots someone in this group: Lurker, AuntJ, Nostredeus, Yates. (Shoot the right person k thnx)

Do not try and WIFOM the scum team Lurker, we'll just lynch you for it.

[Nostredeus]

V/LA this weekend, not that anything seems to be happening.

If town gets rounds to lynching Majiffy/scum stop stalling then please don't do anything too crazy.

[Nostredeus]

But, like, were you scum? I know Jason is v/LA on weekends too.

[Nostredeus]

Holy shit, that's big... Nice. Fucking. Shot. Bro!!!

[Nostredeus]

1/2 scum left in:

Aunt J
Nostredeus
Yates
Pere
Xelath

Xelath is cleared.
Yates was investigated last night; Pere you're up.

NO VOTES UNTIL A DISCUSSION IS HAD.

[Nostredeus]

Hmmmm, interesting.

[Nostredeus]

So:

Yates/Pere (Requires a scum lie detector)
Pere/AuntJ
AuntJ/Yates

So option 2 or 3 is where it's at.

[Nostredeus]

Yes because Pere definitely just outed a scumbuddy at lylo when there was absolutely no reason to and he could have instead said "I investigated X, they're scum" and watched a mislynch. O_o

[Nostredeus]

Because doing one wins the game, doing the other gets people like you saying stuff like the stuff you're saying?

Straight up question: If Pere had come back and said "Yates is scum" do you think there is any chance you wouldn't be dead by now regardless of if you were scum/town?

[Nostredeus]

Okay, who is in this Neighbourhood thread?

[Nostredeus]

So:

Yates + Pere (Not going with this scum team, Pere would have just fake-cleared Yates and we'd lose, that didn't happen, this therefore isn't the scum team. EVEN MORE SO, this would have for sure been the scum choice given the QT discussion where Pere knows Yates isn't getting Vig'ed.)

AuntJ + Pere (Valid option 1)

AuntJ + Yates (Valid option 2)

Nostredeus + Pere (I'm not going with this given my knowledge of my own alignment; importantly though you guys should ask yourself if scum would have thrown the RB under a bus, pushed for the godfather to have been lynched like all game, supported Darthe, and agreed to have Pere out us both at lylo - If you do think all of those happened there's not much I can do to convince you how mental I'd have to be as scum.)


PoE: AuntJ is scum (If we have a 4 person scum team).

PoE2: Interactions between AuntJ and Pere as well as between AuntJ and Yates should determine the remaining scum. (If we have a 4 person scum team)


If we have a 3 person scum team we'll know when today doesn't end in a town loss/win.


tl;dr: I'm game for an AuntJ lynch.

[Nostredeus]

tl;dr: I'm game for an AuntJ lynch.

Why AuntJ over Yates?

Either option has AuntJ as scum; it's a 100% scum lynch imo. Yates will hopefully neighbourise me tonight so I can see what happened in the QT and Xelath/I will take one of you two out tomorrow once we all have full information. *shrugs* I'm basically just risk adverse. *shrugs*

[Nostredeus]

Nossy, deary, your point about scum throwing the RB under the bus is proof that

I

am not scum. I pushed Cougy as scum, and I voted Cougy without a moment's hesitation.
However, critically, you were absent from the wagon. You may have said you supported it, but when push came to shove

you weren't there

. The wagon was Xelly, me, Grinny, Lurky, and Yates. Not you. Furthermore, I had pushed Devvy as being scum for the entire game as well. I voted Devvy at several points. I supported Darthy heavier than any other player. So any argument you can make based off of these points applies more to me than to you. So explain to me again, using logic which only applies to your slot and not also to mine, why you are not scum.

That's what you're going with? Denial? Yup I'm happy with an AuntJ lynch.


More stuff:

The AJ wagon:
AJ 6 - Nostredeus,I Am Innocent,Aunt Jemina,qwints,SlySly,Lurker

Players on it who could be scum:
Me or AuntJ.


I can keep going but by now it should be obvious who should die.


Xelath, thoughts?


P-Edit: That's a bit of a pain with regards to the QT shots.

[Nostredeus]

For me to be scum AuntJ I'd have to be A-Grade mental to do stuff like:

post 2323

post 2188

Or this:

post 2488

So what I said "hey guys 3 of this group are scum" then lynched 1 townie and NK'ed the other confirming the scum team? Really?


It just doesn't fly AuntJ, you're flailing hard.

[Nostredeus]

Okay AuntJ, I'll give you your chance to explain things; let's get to it:

Q1) Do you think I'm scum?

[Nostredeus]

Q2) Explain how any of the posts I've highlighted, or in fact any of the posts I've made regarding SC/Devotress are scum motivated.

[Nostredeus]

For me to be scum AuntJ I'd have to be A-Grade mental

Look. You guys need to knock it off and look at the game. I'm not voting for anyone but PV today. Period. We can figure out the last scum tomorrow. For right now, there is no way PV is Town. None of his actions make any sense from a Town perspective. ALL of his actions make sense from a scum perspective.

Or, and this is just a thought, you can recognise we have over 10 days of time to work out a number of things that have clearly yet to be resolved. The only people who benefit from us not having a good chin wag over the game's events is scum, if you don't want to get involved then fine... I'm mainly trying to come to a consensus with Xelath anyway.

The trigger happiness of this town has literally only gone up as things have gotten more and more important.

So yeah, basically chill, you're not coming across great right now.

[Nostredeus]

Q2) Explain how any of the posts I've highlighted, or in fact any of the posts I've made regarding SC/Devotress are scum motivated.

If I analyzed them, perhaps I could find something, but on surface view, they do not.

This is not, however, black and white, town-motivated or scum motivated. I also see no town motivation in your linked posts, and that is the problem because you raised them as evidence for why you could not be scum, when the given posts do not give said evidence.

So you can find no reason a scum player would have said those things, yet I'm scum? Do you have a case at all for why I'm scum, bearing in mind after saying the above it'll need to be one that doesn't contradict the lack of scum motivation in those posts?

And you see no town play in any of them? For reals? Throwing, like, half a game worth of posts into lynching the RB and Godfather doesn't strike you as townie?

[Nostredeus]

So let me get this clear.

In lylo, when a mislynch costs us the game I'm scum for not having rushed to get people lynched.


Also please explain why a scum Nostredeus would be motivated to have done this:

post 2084


If that's the reason you're suggesting I'm scum you'll need to make it stand up next to the half a game worth of me pushing for Devotress to die; please go ahead.



Xelath your thoughts on everything/the whole situation please?

[Nostredeus]

I have literally no idea what happened in the QT, and there's no chance I'm taking anything these three say as trustworthy, can you lay it out for me? (This is not an open question, I am totally uninterested in anyone's response to this but Xelath's.)


Yates, either you're missing the point or trying to skip to tomorrow intentionally. If we concede for a moment that Pere is scum then his partner almost certainly has to be either me or AuntJ, this town WILL herp derp that decision, I want as much time as possible to convince you guys not to herp derp that decision *points to the Darthe vs Devotress discussion*. If pere isn't scum then we lose. either way lynching Pere, in the long run, with this town, leads to us losing, I at the very least want a discussion of who is more scummy AuntJ or me before that happens.

I'm happy to decide between lynching AuntJ and Pere today once Xelath has gotten back to me, but until then there's other stuff to chat about.

[Nostredeus]

Yup that's the play I was expecting scum to make tonight as well, *Shrugs*, I think I'll follow Xelath on this one since he has access to the QT and is confirmed town but I don't like having limited information one bit. Xelath be sure there isn't anything else going on with Pere/AuntJ/Yates before posting back to me, you're my eyes on this one.

With regard to tomorrow the point is it'll be me, you and AuntJ; I think it's valuable to have Pere/Xelath provide input on that situation before they're unable to, you don't for whatever reason *shrugs*.

[Nostredeus]

He begged for a shot on HIM when he was immune??? I thought he begged for a shot on me? Pere if you're town then I have no fraking idea why you did that and I suppose you can explain afterwards *shrugs*, anyway:

Intent to hammer, Xelath you cool with this?

[Nostredeus]

Pere - Yates, AuntJ
AuntJ - Pere

Not Voting -Xelath, Nostredeus

Vote: PeregrineV

*Crosses fingers*

[Nostredeus]

Pere - Yates, AuntJ
AuntJ - Pere

Not Voting -Xelath, Nostredeus

Vote: PeregrineV

*Crosses fingers*

[Nostredeus]

If we get to tomorrow, I'd like to recommend a good chat before any instant fails.

[Nostredeus]

Ah well, congratulations guys.

Can I get a look at this super conclusive neighborhood QT?


Damn it all! More games to add to the infinitely long town meta *vom*.

[Nostredeus]

I can see how that could be interpreted as asking to be shot, but I dunno if I'd make a lynch on it *shrugs* fair call though.

[Nostredeus]

Meh I dunno how to even play 'not town' I've yet to get a chance, it does mean when I do get one I'll have a solid town meta to point to though, not that I will because everyone will read me pointing to it as a scumtell, oh the irony.

P-edit: Mod's choice on that one I'd think.

[Nostredeus]

Honestly I couldn't know what exactly was in that neighbourhood QT, I wanted a lynch on AuntJ, who had legit no case on me, but it wasn't going to happen. I had no leverage to push Xelath towards AuntJ and yates/AuntJ had this QT thing, which I honestly don't think is that conclusive but was working big time for them since I had no access to it; we were done for even if I'd voted AuntJ.

I dunno why you investigated me, a yates investigation would have been golden, I take it you thought I was more likely to be scum? If so I'll go ahead and take a lot of the rap for this loss, potentially I could have played more townie late game. *Shrugs*

[Nostredeus]

I also needed the cred on the off chance Yates was town and you were scum; best play of a bad lot imo.

[Nostredeus]

Oh Jason, I'll happily pre-in for that game. I've got a decent pick set up and guarantee you'll have fun coming up with a role pm.

[Nostredeus]

I also needed the cred on the off chance Yates was town and you were scum; best play of a bad lot imo.

You said it yourself, why would I come back with a town result on Devotress when I could have come back with a scum result the day before and ended/won the game as scum with the mislynch?

That was my thinking until the neighbourhood QT thing, I thought maybe a gambit, maybe a 3 person scumteam, maybe something to do with yates + a role he had, who knows so I followed Xelath.


@Devotress: Dunno who I would have dunked, I was pretty suspicious of Lurker and AuntJ; dat lurker and dat waffle syrup, for reals.