FINISHED You could be anyone Mafia

[I Am Innocent]

100% against Mass Claiming. With that said, I think Aunt Jemima is town with inside information. Slight chance at SK, but doubt scum.

With that said, Xelath's post is really bad.

vote Xelath

[I Am Innocent]

@IamInnocent: Why isn't the simplest conclusion that AuntJ is rolefishing?

Because it is poor scum play:
1) It draws attention toward yourself which is the opposite of what scum want
2) You box yourself in to having a power role you'll have to claim day 1 (hence the inside information)
3) The longer you live when you have this power role, the more obvious you are to be scum (why would scum let a known power player live so long without being NK'd)
4) And the chances of actually getting a group to massclaim is small, which means you did #1, 2, and 3 above for no reason/benefit

Yeah chances are she got a pretty cool power role and has visions of winning this game single-handedly. Which doesn't happen. Hence why we're not massclaiming.

Frankly AuntJ is gunna get NK'ed by scum N1 anyway after this massive derp so can anyone tell me why they'd be against post #40?

So why are you voting AuntJ is you don't think she is scum?

And if you don't think she is scum, why leak her role to the scum by having her claim first as what was suggested in 40?

[I Am Innocent]

Apologies to all, modem crashed and just got replaced this morning. I have been following on my phone, but rather not post with that if I don't have to.

Count me in the group that doesn't see the benefit of name claiming vs the off chance a name is tied to a power role. With that said, I've looked over my name forward and backwards and if scum can guess my role off of the name, more power to them:

I am William Shatner

Not liking Monkey Man's 60 & 62. 83 too for that matter. Up to 114 and it is getting worse.

StrangerCoug's pushing the claim in 65 also has me feeling queasy. 74 is better. 105 better as well.

More scum points for Xelath in 66

@Devotress re: 67's "This post really reads like her giving instructions to her scum buddies in the event that the town goes along with her plan. A guide for how scum should react to the mass claim." Why wouldn't scum AuntJ discuss this pregame with her teammates? Not buying it.

agree with inte in 70. I too played in that game and the people pushing for a massclaim in the beginning were all town (and I as town went after them for it!)

Nost has been feeling town to me.

Majiffy 73 is townish (so does 75 which was my thoughts originally) Offgame topic, 77 had me cracking up!

2birds says all the right things in 76, though goes after outspoken StrangerCoug vs the players subtly following suit. Not a fan.

@2birds, what is your read on Xelath

and Monkey

?

AJ 78 gets town pts

Devotress gets town pts in 92 for similar thinking

@Darth Re: 97 "Flavor doesn't impact roles or alignment at all. It is in giant letters on the front page, stop skimming." I just looked again and see where Flavor does not impact alignment. Please quote where Flavor does not impact roles.

@Xelath Re: 104, why are you being so defensive of the people on that wagon instead of pushing why AuntJ is scummy? Assuming AuntJ is town and has a role that makes her think she can win the game single-handedly, you really think scum would avoid that wagon?

@Xelath, after reading 130, I need to ask you to please list your thoughts on every player that you have thoughts on. Go.

2bird 137 and 138 are leaving me nauseous. His post feel very scripted, very careful. If he is scum, I'm guessing Monkey is not.

More defensiveness and still no scumhunting from Xelath in 141

CommieX says it at best in 147 "Xelath hasn't given me a reason to unvote him yet."

Scum reads to this point
Xelath
2bird or Monkey

[I Am Innocent]

Also the

only reason

not to massclaim under those conditions is if you think AuntJ is just a fool, I'm not arrogant enough to believe I know better than someone who can read their role PM. I might be sad that AuntJ is derp when she is wrong but I'm happy to allow AuntJ to play her role as she sees fit as long as those conditions are met; after those conditions I find obstruction of AuntJ scummy frankly. (that should help explain my current position)

To clarify, there are other possible reasons, most notably it could be a scum gambit.

People should express, assuming those conditions, whether they are for or against a mass roleclaim.

Not to beat a dead horse, but I am against a mass roleclaim at this point in the game.

Also I have a hunch. I'll explain more later.

Can't wait.

The lack of response to 177.

If we're going to get anywhere we need this behind us; a yes vote or a no vote does that and gets us back to scumhunting one way or another.

Getting back to scumhunting is not an option because in theory, town should never stop scumhunting. Which is why I suspect Xelath so heavily, he has done 0 scumhunting, only defending of himself.

*****************

@Everyone without a vote currently, please tell me who your top suspect is at the moment.

[I Am Innocent]

I was gonna move my vote to Xelath this post, but all of a sudden, I feel more confident about Stranger.

Considering Stranger has "only really done one scummy thing" as you said in 137, what has changed?

@2birds, what is your read on Xelath

and Monkey?

Scum, as I made fairly clear. Nothing specific, just general gut, which is why it's a less strong read than Coug (who I was prepared to come off until you came out of nowhere to chainsaw-defend him).

Ah nevermind. So as you say yourself, I "come off until you came out of nowhere to chainsaw-defend him" right? So that makes me and Stranger teammates, and AuntJ (who stranger attacked and pushed to claim), Xelath (who i've been pushing), and you town? And to use your words again, came out of nowhere to defend a partner with 2 votes at the time and no real pressure elsewhere? Really???

I think your stretching big time on this one as you give yourself an out as why you are not bussing your partner.

Ugh, can't we just all vote StrangerCoug or Xelath and be done with this? I Am Innocent is third choice.

So please, tell me exactly why again I am a 3rd choice, cause right now I'm calling OMGUS and chainsawing defense (of Xelath) myself.

[I Am Innocent]

I wanna kill daumis, but have no reason to do so beyond the fact that reading his posts is physically hurting my IQ.

Interesting fact is that in real life my logic works the same on people. Also this is my plan all along you shall all get stupider and i will rule you all.

Please answer my question at the end of post 201.

[I Am Innocent]

@AJtheE, just curious, did you know what the vote count was when you placed that vote? Also, what do you make of Daumis's response in 208? And if you still feel Daumis is scum, what is your read now on Nostredeus.

@Majiffy, would giving your top suspect at the moment ruin your discovering if your hunch is legit? If not, please provide your top suspect.

@Daumis, who else do you find suspicious other than the jester?

************

PS - Daumis moving towards my town list, AJtheE not so much.

[I Am Innocent]

@AJtheE, what are your thoughts on the leading vote getter (Xelath)? I haven't seen you comment on him at all.

[I Am Innocent]

OK, Jumping in, I am currently deciding whether or not I am going to claim. So far we have all but 3 or 4 people's names, I'm still on the fence in this issue.

Welcome. And while your at it deciding on the tough dilemna above, can you tell me who your top suspect is?

As to his response in post 208, I find it rather more "I'd rather not discuss what you just said, so I'll concede the point as to not take too much damage for that comment". Fair assessment? Doesn't mean scum/town one way or the other, just that they refuse to respond to my post.
.
.
.
My question to you, why do you feel Daumis is more pro-town simply because of 208? I can't imagine anyone picking up a real positive tell from getting overly defensive and refusing to answer questions.

Fair assessment to me says "yeah your vote isn't bad, can't argue you with you there." Could be scum trying to avoid drawing attention, but from my experience, scum usually argue that the vote is bad/defend themselves heavily. Read Xelath's 104 for an example.

I also believe I already stated I agreed with Darthe on Nostre, put up my own argument, and I said I'd eventually vote for Nostre unless something else came up. Did you check to see what I posted or are you simply trying to bombard me with questions so you can trip me up? There is a difference between good quality questions and quantity questions. Realistically, the last one didn't need to be asked. Nor the first, unless you are suggesting I should jump on Nostre, which was also addressed previously.

This is the part that bothers me. You did all that work, and yet you couldn't filter on the mod's post to get the last vote count, and then skim throughout the game thread from there to see if Nostre had less than 7 (L-2) votes? Then all of a sudden, you vote Daumis for one simple statement about a jester being in the game, the same person (nostre) you felt was such scum earlier?

Your reasoning was that Daumis is avoiding to vote someone, something you appeared to me to be doing earlier...

The last question was legit and one I want to know. I want to know if you think Daumis is avoiding bussing his partner or if you think Daumis is avoiding to vote town?

He has 9 total posts, and to be honest, I'm going to say that him being in the lead is unwarranted. His stance isn't placed as eloquently as mine, but he doesn't think Auntie J possess a role that makes a massclaim viable day 1, and he'd prefer not to do it. Having iso'd his posts, there isn't anything oddly suspicious other than maybe people suspecting of him for fishing for AuntieJ's role. IMO, Auntie J asked for it, though, by saying she had some sort of know-all end-all role if we role-claimed.

Him being in the lead is unwarranted??? Tell me one thing Xelath has done in 9 posts other than talk about AuntJ.

After you do that research and realize the answer is "nothing", I have another question for you. Do you think if Xelath was town, that his wagon would have stalled at 4 as it has?

As for 'chainsawing Xelath', yes, I'm totally chainsawing my second scumread. Why would I not be bussing Xelath right now, were we scumbuddies, out of interest? If Xelath is scum, I'm willing to bet that one of his buddies is on his wagon already.

Going with the old "can't be scum with Xelath cause I would have bussed him by now" defense?

If scum list a bunch of scum reads, like you did earlier in the game, where do scum usually put their partners? First/top spot? No, from my experience, they make it a point that there partner is not the scummiest person of the bunch:

(From your 137) "I'm happy to shift to Xelath if there won't be any Couglynch support, Coug's only really done one scummy thing, Xelath is only very slightly behind in terms of lynchworthiness."

Yeah that bothered me.

As for the if Xelath is scum, one of his buddies would be on the wagon. Would you feel that way if say, Xelath was a Godfather or other powerful role? Or do you think that scum may be trying to start up other wagons hoping something sticks?

Counterquestion which is the same I am asking AJtheE, if Xelath is town, why has his wagon stalled at 4?

[I Am Innocent]

If this is legit, is there any reason why you did not ask for a claim first?

[I Am Innocent]

Xelly, deary, I have no concern over dying, but I see no reason to claim my role if massclaim won't happen. It gives information to the scum but gives us nothing in return.
If enough people take the pledge that they will consider massclaim based off of my role, then I will claim. Otherwise my claim is wasteful and accomplishes nothing.

Yet everybody massclaiming gives the scum all the information, and you don't find that to be a problem?

Hey Xelath, what are your thoughts on 2bird shooting Monkey?

*************

@inte, why haven't you voted anyone yet? Who is your top suspect?

[I Am Innocent]

I agreed with Monkey on a lot of things, and I thought he was town.

That's funny, cause you never mention Monkey once. Ever.

Care to tell us who else you think is town?

[I Am Innocent]

That's funny, because last I checked, I don't have to vocalize my opinions to have them.

Vocalizing opinions creates stances. Stances back scum in to corners. If scum don't comment or make stances, they have a lot more freedom to move around and lynch whoever they want later in the game.

Town should have no problem making stances. Yet you clearly state that you had one that you didn't think important to vocalize until after that person was supposedly killed. That is unacceptable to me.

**************

2birds, what is this gambit you pulled that outted a players role?

[I Am Innocent]

Well that's interesting, so the options are:

1) Fake day-vig claim, will probably post something like "oh em gee must be bulletproof" in which case 2 birds needs to die.
2) Target was actually bulletproof, in which case Monkey needs to die.
3) 2 birds has some sort of specific role that is not working for some reason.

So if 2 birds responds badly we're lynching one and then the other if the first lynch proves unfruitful; at least we've caught 1 scum player. Noice.

Interesting that you thought of #3, not something that I found plausible, and that is what 2birds comes out with later...

I see town faking a dayvig shot all the time as an attention-getter, and I think scum faking a dayvig with the intent that town take it seriously is called suicide. I would have to take a closer look after dinner, though.

All the time? Can you provide me a few links cause I've never seen that.

are you bulletproof or not?

Who is scum please?

*****

Majiffy is town. Just saying.

*****

I don't gambit. If I say I have multiple daykills, I have multiple daykills.

However, I neglected to mention that they're fallible. I was hoping scum would panic at the sight of a trigger-happy player with kills to spare, I saw no need to mention fallibility unless forced to.

So you think that killing an unclaimed member of the game is worth the risk of making scum panicky? No, that is never the case. You should have asked for a claim, and you did not. That is scummy.

And now that said person has claimed, and has not died, meaning you may not even be a vig.

I'm going to need a full claim from you.

It's possible that his shots work only a defined percentage of the time, but if that's true and he wasn't told so, we're in a bastard mod game. Let's start with the most likely and work our way from there based on evidence.

Ummm, did you miss the part where 2birds says the shots are fallible???

*******

AJtheE's 340 feels town. 354 too.

*******

Re AuntJ's 342 & 343, I agree that Monkey is likely town. I'll be shocked if one of Xelath or 2birds is not scum.

*******

Null/Town: Inte (Probably town, though I'm not cool with him/her ruining my reaction tests.)

Please oh please explain how Inte gets a Null, leaning town? What the heck has he done this game???

Felt forced to put him in there and I'm going to note this connection if/when one of these two flip scum.

******

@SlySly, do you still feel Monkey is scum?

******

Darthe's 351 is worth some town pts

*****

@Majiffy, what do you make of the 2birds/Monkey ordeal?

[I Am Innocent]

I'd like inte, Stranger, nostredeus, and 2birds to give me their thoughts on the other 3 players in this group. Go.

[I Am Innocent]

And Xelath, who are the scummiest 3 players in the game right now. Go.

[I Am Innocent]

Magiffy and Aunt J are town, and I'm gonna take Nostredeus' word on MonkeyMan576's towniness.

So Nostredeus is not a town read for you, but you're willing to take his word on MonkeyMan being town?

Please explain cause that lines wreaks of scumminess.

MonkeyMan was under pressure as it was, shooting at him really wasn't that big a deal.

Would it have been a big deal if he "your kill" went through and he was say a cop?

How do you feel about a player who is at L-1, do you think he should be allowed to claim?

I have five daykills, and I can use up to three in the same day. However, they are, as mentioned, fallible, and if one fails, I can't kill again until tomorrow. I'm not claiming the failcon.

So you know what the failcon is, but you didn't know your shot was going to fail? Makes no sense to me, and personally I think you're lying.

@Everyone, do you believe this claim?

[I Am Innocent]

So what does that say about slysly, who was actually right about him lying?

town vig obviously. And along with AuntJ, probably a great choice for doc protection imo.

I said earlier that one of 2birds and Xelath are likely scum. I'm sticking with that, that Xelath is opportunistic scum who jumped on a confirmed town wagon as soon as Monkey didn't die.

2birds, your play was awful. Will discuss more postgame, but outting the real town vig, getting yourself killed, as well as getting Monkey to claim. Terrible.

Confirm vote Xelath

[I Am Innocent]

darnit, didn't realize the vote count was reset. For posterity sake, I'll

vote Xelath

[I Am Innocent]

In other news, I smell opportunism on the 2birds1stone wagon. I see town faking a dayvig shot all the time as an attention-getter, and I think scum faking a dayvig with the intent that town take it seriously is called suicide. I would have to take a closer look after dinner, though.

People who voted 2birds:
Xelath
Lurker
MonkeyMan
SlySly (after the other 3 had unvoted tho)

At least 1 scum in {Xelath, Lurker, MonkeyMan}

Good place to start.

[I Am Innocent]

I don't see where he hinted at being the vig, other than the shot being so close to his inquisition.

Yeah your probably right. Posts 392, 394, 410, 419 & especially 423, 424, 426, 427, 431, 432, 434, 438, 440 don't hint at it at all.

Nor does the mod's 446, where the real vig killed the lying fake vig...

[I Am Innocent]

@Monkey, what is your read on Xelath & Lurker?

[I Am Innocent]

@xelath, I was referring to 2birds when I said you jumped on a confirmed town wagon, not monkey's...

[I Am Innocent]

@xelath, he was confirmed town as soon as the mod revealed his role.

Do you think after his gambit that scum would have voted him?

[I Am Innocent]

You're saying I jumped on the wagon as if I knew he was confirmed town.

No, I was saying you jumped on a wagon that we now know is confirmed town.

And of course scum wouldn't be voting for 2birds.

This is the second time you've done this. In post 104 you tried to discredit suspicion on the group of people that was voting AuntJ.

What do both things have in common? You were in both groups and trying to sway suspicion away from both groups.

By the way, saying scum wouldn't be voting for 2birds is a complete joke, you have to know that right?

Your first two votes this game are for:
AuntJ, who

claimed to have a role

that could guarantee town win with a massclaim
2Birds, who

claimed to have a role

as a dayvig.

What do both have in common??? (Hint hint, looked at the underlined)

What do scum not like??? (hint hint, people with the underlined).

He was doing them a favor by confusing the hell out of us and probably leading us to lynch a townie.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Complete joke I say.

****************

pedit - Darthe, how about something a little more substantial? Maybe with say a vote thrown in...

[I Am Innocent]

As for the roleclaim, I am always against claiming day 1.

If AuntJ is right that her role is a game changer and she goes first, I will push for it as well. I highly doubt she's right though. I've played Jason's games before and I find it very unlikely that he created a setup that could be manipulated like that.

[I Am Innocent]

Wow, this is one bad post!!!

VOTE: Monkeyman576

You're dodgy, and your death will help clear something for me, personally (namely, another isolation of whom I know the alignment). I also feel that a lynch will be beneficial, and so I'll go make an argument for my vote on monkey somewhere. While I feel like I'm lynching him all backwards, (technically, I'm not lynching him yet, anyways), the vote is needed solely from the eventual of a statistical standpoint.

But, I do have a question for Monkey: What do you feel about Slysly? And then Nostre, completely separate. I've seen you respond to one, just want individual responses.

I wish I could word what I'm thinking right now, but it'd end up bad for the player I'm thinking it for. Luckily, no one has shown any interest in my presence, so I'll go back to hiding.

I do, however, want to point about Inte: I believe he is still playing, but he has only posted a grand total of 15 sentences/lines (whatever that is he posts). That's fairly unacceptable to me.

"You're dodgy" is this different than scummy?

"and your death will help clear something for me, personally", by chance a scum flip?

"I also feel that a lynch will be beneficial", beneficial as in hitting scum?

"and so I'll go make an argument for my vote on monkey somewhere", but not here? Shall I check another game of yours?

"While I feel like I'm lynching him all backwards", okay, not even going to try to guess what this means. Please help...

"the vote is needed solely from the eventual of a statistical standpoint."...um make that two "Please help"s...

"I wish I could word what I'm thinking right now, but it'd end up bad for the player I'm thinking it for." like a teammate???

"Luckily, no one has shown any interest in my presence, so I'll go back to hiding." admitted lurking...

"I do, however, want to point about Inte" now attacking a low poster.***

***While I agree that inte needs to post, and more importantly, cast a vote in this game, how is his play any different than Lurker's who has been just as lurkee??? (And who also has voted a dead townie who claimed a power role...)

current Top 2

Xelath
AJtheE

[I Am Innocent]

Geez, what would it take for someone to actually present a case against Xelath?

Pretty much iso me, I've been on Xelath the whole day. (or read some of my quotes below and see the lack of scumhunting/stances and the overly defensive style that is typical of scum):

@Xelath Re: 104, why are you being so defensive of the people on that wagon instead of pushing why AuntJ is scummy? Assuming AuntJ is town and has a role that makes her think she can win the game single-handedly, you really think scum would avoid that wagon?

More defensiveness and still no scumhunting from Xelath in 141

Him being in the lead is unwarranted??? Tell me one thing Xelath has done in 9 posts other than talk about AuntJ. After you do that research and realize the answer is "nothing", I have another question for you. Do you think if Xelath was town, that his wagon would have stalled at 4 as it has?


In post 301, Xelath wrote:I agreed with Monkey on a lot of things, and I thought he was town.

That's funny, cause you never mention Monkey once. Ever. Care to tell us who else you think is town.


In post 308, Xelath wrote:That's funny, because last I checked, I don't have to vocalize my opinions to have them.

Vocalizing opinions creates stances. Stances back scum in to corners. If scum don't comment or make stances, they have a lot more freedom to move around and lynch whoever they want later in the game. Town should have no problem making stances. Yet you clearly state that you had one that you didn't think important to vocalize until after that person was supposedly killed. That is unacceptable to me.

People who voted 2birds:
Xelath
Lurker
MonkeyMan
SlySly (after the other 3 had unvoted tho)

At least 1 scum in {Xelath, Lurker, MonkeyMan}

Good place to start.


In post 471, Xelath wrote:And of course scum wouldn't be voting for 2birds.

This is the second time you've done this. In post 104 you tried to discredit suspicion on the group of people that was voting AuntJ.

What do both things have in common? You were in both groups and trying to sway suspicion away from both groups.

By the way, saying scum wouldn't be voting for 2birds is a complete joke, you have to know that right?

Your first two votes this game are for:
AuntJ,

who claimed to have a role

that could guarantee town win with a massclaim
2Birds,

who claimed to have a role

as a dayvig.

What do both have in common??? (Hint hint, looked at the underlined)

What do scum not like??? (hint hint, people with the underlined).

[I Am Innocent]

Hey Xelath, after you thought Monkey died, you said you thought he was town***. What changed to make you vote him other than self preservation?

***As far as I know, he's the only town read you have mentioned this game, right?

PS - you're comment "I'd be ok with getting rid of Monkey first and seeing what results." doesn't exactly exude confidence that he's scum, does it???

[I Am Innocent]

Xelly, deary, I have no concern over dying, but I see no reason to claim my role if massclaim won't happen. It gives information to the scum but gives us nothing in return.
If enough people take the pledge that they will consider massclaim based off of my role, then I will claim. Otherwise my claim is wasteful and accomplishes nothing.

Yet everybody massclaiming gives the scum all the information, and you don't find that to be a problem?

Hey Xelath, what are your thoughts on 2bird shooting Monkey?

*************

@inte, why haven't you voted anyone yet? Who is your top suspect?

Wait, Monkey is actually dead? I didn't catch that. This is the first game that I've played where daykilling is an option.

I agreed with Monkey on a lot of things, and I thought he was town.

Killing someone just because they're a "distraction" I think is counter to the town wincon. Thats a very scummy move, in my opinion.

In case you forgot the exact quote Xelath...(underline added for emphasis)

[I Am Innocent]

My 2 cents:

I still believe auntj is town and that she is a role cop.

With 2 outted power roles now both who I believe to be town, I feel that we should mass claim, but any doctors or jailkeepers should claim vanilla instead.

This should not start until the majority agrees with this decision.

If/when a majority agrees, I feel the popcorn should start with the last claimed player...auntj

[I Am Innocent]

If x = protecter roles and y = vanilla town, scum have an x / (x + y) chance of hitting the protecter roles. Not great odds by any means... Hence the reason to do the claiming this way.

[I Am Innocent]

It might be worthwhile to have a proviso that Town doctors (and other roles able to protect AuntJ without hindering her) should claim something other than their actual role and AuntJ should protect them if she finds out their true role; it maximises AuntJ's survivability.

So then, what's the point of the massclaim? AuntJ's whole argument was that if we catch people in a lie, we lynch them. Now you're advocating for people to lie if they're beneficial to town? This seems like you're just giving an out for your scumbuddies to hide behind fake claims.

lol scum flailing

Yes, deary, they would want to go after vanilla townies.

We

want

that.

He means people claimed as vanilla townies. This plan is bad. Very bad. Especially when we add in the proviso that power roles can lie. Then why claim in the first place? Anybody who is in favor of this seems pretty scummy to me.

and flailing some more...

[I Am Innocent]

At home, so much easier to type on computer than phone...

Plan:

Town who are not Doctors or Jailkeepers give an honest claim

Town who are Doctors or Jailkeepers claim Vanilla Town

Scum are going to do whatever they want, probably flail like Xelath

AuntJ popcorns to someone she finds scummy who claims and then popcorns to someone they find scummy, lather, rinse repeat.

(The objective is to try to get as many scummy players to claim earlier rather than later!!!)

After everyone claims, we lynch someone.

If we have a JailKeeper, my suggestion would be to Jail SlySly.

That way you don't interfere with AuntJ's investigative powers.

If we have a Doctor, I would randomly pick from the power roles I thought most likely need to live.

That would include SlySly if I thought his role was important, as a Doctor won't be aware if there is also a JailKeeper or not.

*******************

Because a JK may be jailing SlySly, he uses his shot as he sees fit during the day only.

Before SlySly ever shoots, he asks for a claim if he is targeting a "vanilla townie". That way if a Doctor/JK is targeted, they can claim first

(which could then be verified by AuntJ, assuming they survive the night). No point to do the scum's job for them.

*******************

This is the best plan I can think of, go ahead Xelath flail away. My guess is with you under heavy suspicion and the fact that Jason is a big believer in scum day talk, you were probably nominated to go against the plan since your life is likely to be short anyway...

PS - IN CASE YOU MISSED IT EARLIER, YOU ARE GIVING AN HONEST CLAIM UNLESS YOU ARE A DOCTOR OR JAILKEEPER. NO MORE MISTAKES LIKE 2BIRDS MADE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[I Am Innocent]

I don't understand why going after someone who is getting a free pass from a lot of players is scummy. It's easier to go after the people others already suspect. I actually like MonkeyMan's last few posts.

So why are you still voting Monkey over Xelath, esp when Xelath was someone you "could vote...today" as you said earlier below?

I don't feel really good about lynching monkeyman or 2birds, for what it's worth. Xelath is a little off. I've been doing a little bit of rereading of the early portions of the game, and he did post something that felt minorly contradictory. He made a pretty big deal out of AuntJ's day one posts while saying that no one should make a big deal out of day 1 posts. It also felt hollow to me how he was on board with strangercoug's plan to have aunt jemina claim first, even though he had JUST been saying that role claiming would be worthless as anyone could just lie.
I could vote him today.

[I Am Innocent]

AuntJ was never going to claim anything but rolecop, I think I had an early post where I said it was pretty obvious what roles she could be claiming to have. So I'm genuinely confused as to why this would change anyone's opinions on the mass claim. Those who were always for it should still be for it, those who weren't shouldn't be.


If town really does go through with the massclaim I have no problem claiming early, but I still don't think we should do it for what it's worth.

First of all, 4 players have now claimed or their roles known (when you include 2birds), which does change things.

Second of all, where is the flaw in the plan?

[I Am Innocent]

While we're waiting for scum to commit to the plan or not, let's discuss...

It's a little bit disingenuous to go find a post where I said I liked monkey man, and use that as a basis for it being weird I'm voting for him, while ignoring the later post I made FOSing him.

...why you are lying here Devotress? There is no later post FOSing Monkey after you said in 547 "I actually like MonkeyMan's last few posts"

[I Am Innocent]

Does anyone really believe that 7 of the remaining 8 players are going to be against the plan??? Xelath???

And since we all know the answer to that question is no, doesn't anyone not believe this stalling by Xelath is the final proof he is scum?

[I Am Innocent]

darn double negative....change that to "does anyone not believe this stalling by Xelath is the final proof he is scum?"

[I Am Innocent]

Vanilla Town, William Shatner,

Popcorn Lurker

[I Am Innocent]

More than just pressure, he is a legitimate scum candidate:

In other news, I smell opportunism on the 2birds1stone wagon. I see town faking a dayvig shot all the time as an attention-getter, and I think scum faking a dayvig with the intent that town take it seriously is called suicide. I would have to take a closer look after dinner, though.

People who voted 2birds:
Xelath
Lurker
MonkeyMan
SlySly (after the other 3 had unvoted tho)

At least 1 scum in {Xelath, Lurker, MonkeyMan}

Good place to start.

unvote Xelath
vote Lurker

[I Am Innocent]

I disagree. I think it is more important to create the popcorn links and try to get the scummiest people to claim first than it is to finish day 1 with all the claims.

[I Am Innocent]

I know we are still awaiting one claim, but...

Townies: Any preferred targets for the vig? I will weigh all input before pulling the trigger.

My preferred targets would be Xelath or Devotress.

Lurker wouldn't be a bad choice either based on jumping on 2birds and lurking hard and not playing until votes start coming.

I think Monkey is town. What benefit would scum Monkey get for claiming VT when he thought 2birds shot him. None what so ever.

I do have a question for the mod, but want to wait until after the last claim.

unvote Lurker
vote Xelath

wiki doesn't seem to "back up" your claim buddy.

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Backup

"A Back-up in a game without a primary role present is essentially a Named Townie"

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Named_Townie

"A Named Townie is a role that has no real abilities, but differs from a normal Vanilla Townie in the sense it has a unique title or attribute."

I see nothing about a Backup not tied to a specific power role (like cop) being anything more than vanilla.

I'm calling liar on someone that knew without a claim he would likely be lynched, and since he had to claim before multiple townies, wanted a unique role that was not likely to be countered.

[I Am Innocent]

@slysly, if you do want to shoot someone who has claimed VT, please give them a chance to claim Doc or JK first.

[I Am Innocent]

*cough*
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... sal_Backup
*cough*

Well that took you less than 3 minutes to reply, so you sound well versed on this role. I've only ever played with a Backup Cop before. Have you played with this "Universal Backup" role before....if so, please link to the game.

Also, do you find the lack of the word "universal" in Xelath's post to be important? Town Backup based on wiki is much different that Universal Backup on wiki imo...

Fine, I'll claim. I don't have a role... yet. I'm the town backup.

[I Am Innocent]

Everybody needs to place a vote on their #1 suspect before slysly even considers shooting again. I don't care if you think that person is going to be lynched or not, we need some stances made before any more flips. With 6 players without a current vote, too many players are just hanging back doing nothing. If you have a vote out there and that is who your top suspect is, please say it.

For example, I am voting Xelath and he is my top suspect.

Devotress is a close 2nd. I still do not understand why her vote is on Monkey when shortly after placing those votes, she said she like his posting.

As for these responses, the longer you take, the more scummy you come off to me. Okay, go.

[I Am Innocent]

The following players need to weigh in immediately given the time frame remaining until deadline;

qwints, I Am Innocent, PeregrineV, Xelath, Darthe, Aunt Jemina, and inte.

Add devotress to this list and I am in full agreement.

Anyone seen Xelath? Oh wait, he fakeclaimed so no pressure, no need to defend himself anymore. Which is mostly all he has done today...

I'd be okay lynching Lurker at this point, he did jump on the 2birds wagon and his case and quick dropoff did feel very sketchy.

Still prefer Xelath, Devotress.....and the AJtheEpic wagon is intriguing me as well.

As someone who defended Xelath earlier, let's see where this goes.

unvote Xelath
vote AJtheEpic

[I Am Innocent]

I am town

@Mod, Inte and Xelath need prods

As an aside, inte has had multiple posts in other oncoming games over the last 3 days, so with him ignoring this game this close to the deadline, and still not voting yet once today, he is officially in my top suspect list:

Xelath, Devotress, AJtheEpic, inte

*************

@Darthe, any reason you did not type PV's request word for word? "I'm town" <> "I am town". Also, why did you not revote AJtheEpic when the mod told you your vote was done in error?

*************

As someone who believes there is daytalk, not a fan of AJ and Devotress's confidence in knowing what the claim is. Could be a product of scum putting their heads together to figure it out...

*************

@Nostredeus, that is very very tempting that Devotress vote. I'll consider it, esp if she doesn't cast a vote in the very near term. But for now I still feel good about AJtheE.

@AJtheE, your qwints vote sucks by the way. Are you willing to vote inte or Devotress instead? Want this on record asap.

To the people who aren't voting: why are you ignoring the impending deadline?

Great question and I also want the answer.

[I Am Innocent]

I'm goinga do a little bit of look at Xelath AJtheEpic and Quints before I cast a new vote.

So after 3 weeks and 30+ pages you don't have a single scum read?

[I Am Innocent]

I forgot Xelath claimed backup. I'm still going to do that reread of him, but I'm not going to be placing a vote day 1.

Am I reading this right? Are you proposing a no lynch day 1?

[I Am Innocent]

This town has such a bad case of ADHD that I have no clue who to vote for anymore. There have been like 6 different wagons today. I'm still convinced that Lurker is scummy, and that's where my vote is going to stay.

So you are okay with a no lynch?

Also, how many scum do you think in a game of this size....4? Possibly 3 on the low side???

So why are you stuck on just one player. Let's pretend you're not scum and Lurker is....who are his teammates?

Lastly, who do you find more scummy, AJtheEpic or qwints? I want this on record.

[I Am Innocent]

so if anyone have any idea who I should vote really against say now

Okay then, vote AJtheEpics. You're welcome.

[I Am Innocent]

I like killing both Maj and AJ, AJ first. I agree that it doesn't make sense for both to be scum but their plays don't make sense anyhow. I make the motion that perhaps they are simply stupid. Can I get a second? Also,

vote AJ

^ the epic, to be clear since auntie is playing.

Hey Jason I totally voted AJ the Epic.

Hey Jason I totally voted AJ the Epic.

no, you didn't you unvoted in post 539 and have not voted since

Hey Darthe, with just hours to go, maybe you could revote the person you thought you voted instead of wonder why the mod didn't count your vote.

And this time, try voting "AJtheEpic" instead of "AJ", which could be 2 different people, which is why the original vote probably never counted...

Why do I have a feeling the level of activity in this game near to deadline is going to end with me being really sad.

Well I would not count on inte, and Xelath doesn't seem to care if there is a no lynch either, so that is two people, likely both scum that will not help out.

PV will vote, and I am hoping Darthe revotes instead of continues arguing with the Mod.

I will be around at the deadline to switch my vote if need be, but unless a wagon starts up on Xelath, I will most likely not move my vote unless it is to avoid a no lynch at the deadline.

[I Am Innocent]

Not just that he reached L-1 but how quickly he did. On the flip side the stalling that occurred on xelath's and ajtheepic's wagons strengthens my belief that these 2 are scum...

[I Am Innocent]

@Monkey, you have 2 wagons sluggishly moving to the finish line (9 votes) in AJtheEpic and qwints.

Then all of a sudden, daumis get to 8 votes just like that.

You really think daumis is scum, one or both of AJtheEpic and qwints is town, and scum couldn't help get one of those wagons over the top???

No, it makes more sense that one or more of AJtheEpic/qwints is scum, they split their vote (or like Xelath, abstained from either wagon), and then when a VI town became an option, they hopped over.

Agree or disagree?

[I Am Innocent]

This is a load of chat that means nothing; there's a lot more interesting stuff to be talking about.


Namely who should Xelath shoot; there's a vig kill to be used here and there's a lot of decent targets:

Darthe, Qwints or Monkeyman and why?

Why are you omitting AJtheEpics?

[I Am Innocent]

Well the good news is if Darthe, inte or AuntJ are fake claiming then they just threw themselves in together; basically it is highly unlikely that they'd be that stupid since one investigation outs them all.

So.

Now we have a bit of info: (Green is confirmed town)

StrangerCoug
Nostredeus
Majiffy
Aj The Epic
Monkeyman
Lurker
Devotress
qwints
I Am Innocent

PereV

Aunt Jemina

Darthe

Xelath

Inte

Even a random shot would give us a 33.3rec% chance of accuracy at this point, things are looking good here.

Now we just wait for Pere to finish clearing stuff up and Xelath can take his/her shot.

Lot of assumptions need to be made to give that many confirmed townie statuses...

[I Am Innocent]

Well the good news is if Darthe, inte or AuntJ are fake claiming then they just threw themselves in together; basically it is highly unlikely that they'd be that stupid since one investigation outs them all.

So.

Now we have a bit of info: (Green is confirmed town)

StrangerCoug
Nostredeus
Majiffy
Aj The Epic
Monkeyman
Lurker
Devotress
qwints
I Am Innocent

PereV

Aunt Jemina

Darthe

Xelath

Inte

Even a random shot would give us a 33.3rec% chance of accuracy at this point, things are looking good here.

Now we just wait for Pere to finish clearing stuff up and Xelath can take his/her shot.

Lot of assumptions need to be made to give that many confirmed townie statuses...

[I Am Innocent]

Xelath should shoot Qwints, or we should lynch Qwints, either way's fine with me. First of all he's still scummy for the case I made on him yesterday, in addition:

If you go ISO our mod JasonT, look at the last few votefinders from yesterday.

Post #873: AJ the Epic is leading strong.
Post #948: AJ the Epic and Myself have both posted our cases against Qwints, and the Quints wagon gains steam.
Posts #983 and #1031: After there is a strong push for Quints, all of a sudden a large wagon builds on Daumis and the Qwints wagon evaporates.


With the hindsight of Daumis flipping town, I am very suspicious of the way this went down. It seems like people were standing by to let AJ the Epic get lynched, but once strong pressure got applied on Qwints, all of a sudden a lot of steam went into making sure Qwints didn't get lynched.

If we lynched/vig Qwints and he flips scum I think that gives us a lot to look at about the way day 1 went down.

This is a load of crap. People that hopped over to Daumis, who had 1 vote at the time:

Nostredeus (previous vote was Devotress)
Majiffy (previous vote was qwints)
AJtheEpic (previous vote was qwints)
MonkeyMan (previous vote was qwints)
Lurker (previous vote was AJtheEpics)
Devotress (previous vote was qwints)

qwints was the counter wagon to AJtheEpics, and the same people voting qwints voted Daumis.

qwints likely town, AJtheEpics likely scum

[I Am Innocent]

Even a random shot would give us a 33.3rec% chance of accuracy at this point, things are looking good here.

Now we just wait for Pere to finish clearing stuff up and Xelath can take his/her shot.

Why would you propose a random shot when there are perfectly good scum candidates(like qwints or Darthe) to shoot?

Why are you ignoring AJtheEpics?

[I Am Innocent]

Upon further investigation, AJ is definitely town.

Which AJ are you talking about?

[I Am Innocent]

I want everyone's Top 3 or 4 Suspect list.

Also want to know how many scum you think were one the Daumis wagon?

Day 1 Vote Count 15

Daumis123 9- StrangerCoug,Nostredeus,Majiffy, Aj The Epic,Monkeyman,Lurker,Devotress,qwints,PereV
AJ 5 - I Am Innocent,Aunt Jemina,,SlySly,,Daumis123,Darthe
Lurker 1 - Xelath,

Not Voting

inte

Day 1 begins with 16 alive needing 9 to lynch

.

(expired on 2012-12-19 14:12:41)

till Day 1 Deadline

lynch achieved in post 1010

My Top 3
AJtheEpic
Xelath
Devotress

vote AJtheEpic

[I Am Innocent]

Why are you omitting AJtheEpics?

Because we're not going to shoot AJtheE, if he/she dies it'll be through a lynch.

Why not? Why would qwints be a target and not AJtheE? Did you read my response to Devotress....AJtheE should be considered before qwints, any push otherwise is scummy.

Lot of assumptions need to be made to give that many confirmed townie statuses...

Unless you think 2 assumptions is a lot (AuntJ is town being one and Pere is town being the other) then no, not really.

Pere is town by virtue of his/her role and approach to it. (Assumption 1)
AuntJ is town for the same reason. (Assumption 2)
Darth is confirmed by AuntJ.
Xelath is going to shoot someone today proving his/her status.
Inte is confirmed by AuntJ.

I take it you haven't been reading the thread either?

Please explain why you posted the underlined.

As for everything else, Xelath has not proved his status, so not confirmed.

Just because Inte neighborized someone, does not mean he is a town neighborizer. You are aware scum could have this role too.

With that being 4 assumptions for 5 players....so then yes, really.

Until PV or AuntJ they die, and the mod confirms the roles they say they have, everything must be taken with a grain of salt.

[I Am Innocent]

Well it's more the fact that you're addressing something I never stated; you're refuting that you and Monkey are on a team and I never made such a claim.

There's 3 scum in the game (probably), you named 3 people, I'll let you do the math.

Why have you not provided your top 3 suspects when I asked them?

Ok, here's the deal. I can't shoot anyone until night time. Slysly only had one dayshot and he blew his load day 1... So I'm stuck with nightshots only.

Yet only one person died at night, and it was slysly himself. Doubt he tried to shoot himself, so why are there still night shots left?

Your story has more holes in it than a block of swiss cheese.

unvote: AJtheEpics
vote Xelath

[I Am Innocent]

Per Nost in 1107:

"I see your response where you point out who swapped to which wagon, I then see you leap to quints town AJ scum, I see no reasoning in between so you've still got a fair bit of work to do." The same people that voted Daumis voted for Qwints. Which means when Qwints vs AJtheEpic failed, the Qwints people pushed Daumis instead. Daumis flipped town, which means that the counterwagon was likely the AJtheEpic wagon. Which would point to AJtheEpic being the scum wagon that stalled....not the qwints one.

"You didn't know he would be unable to when you made your post (nor did I when I made the post you were complaining about) so that's irrelevant and isn't something that could be used to justify your post." Well since I felt he has been lying scum since like page 2, I suspected, heavily at that. Still why would you say he is confirmed town PRIOR to him shooting someone and proving he is a universal backup, that is what I am wondering.....(despite him even admitting his "role" said nothing about being universal...)

"Possible but unlikely, look at the town PR setup it's crazy strong, the balance would be near laughable if one of mafia's roles was a neighbouriser." Does a neighborizer give power to either side....really? With a rolecop out there, and I strongly believe AuntJ is a town rolecop, a neighborizer would be a good role to give scum as it would protect their alignment. So you say unlikely, I say very much possible.

"Why do you think there wouldn't be any night shots left?" If he had x shots last night, he would have used x shots. He had to know he had a huge target on his back, so why hold back? Instead, he flipped town vig (not x shot town vig), which means he likely had 1 shot per day and the hoopla around night shots was probably to throw off scum and possibly make them look elsewhere for a N1 target. That lines up much better than no one else dying except himself.

On the other hand, why do you think he has night shots left?

****************

Re Xelath's 1109

"So, in response to you, Innocent, why are there night shots left? Because he obviously didn't use any last night. It doesn't take a genius to work that one out. They're limited, and he wanted to save them." LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL........no. Town vigs with a target on their back and two flipped town are going to use their shots....any other story is a flat out lie.

***************

Re StrangerCougs 1110

"This is a failure to take into account any docs, blockers, etc. keeping the kill from going off. You're assuming that, since there's been only one night kill, Xelath must be scum. I call false dilemma at this stage." Why would the doc target anyone other than AuntJ or Slysly, (or maybeeeeeee PV). And in that case, why would Slysly target them. He wouldn't. Roleblocked...it is a possibility, one I considered. I think scum would rather use that on AuntJ or PV tho, don't you??? Yeah, you know that.

Okay, so since there is no reason for someone other than slysly not to be dead, night shots are not likely. So when you factor that into the following:
Xelath attacking AuntJ (very likely town rolecop)
Xelath focusing on being defensive and analyzing claim theory most of D1 versus scumhunting
Xelath jumping on 2birds, who flipped town
Xelath wagon stalling at 4 votes for the longest time
Xelath claiming Backup (but not Universal Backup which is what he is implying his role is)
Xelath who was ready to hammer Daumis, another confirmed town
Xelath who can't prove that he is a town vig because coincidentally he is out of day shots

Yeah, take that false dilemma and shove it. Xelath is scum. You have not pushed him once this game, neither has Devotress or AJtheEpic. Once Xelath flips scum, there is a great number of players to look at right there as possible teammates.

[I Am Innocent]

Stranger, what do you make of this from Xelath:

"So, in response to you, Innocent, why are there night shots left? Because he obviously didn't use any last night. It doesn't take a genius to work that one out. They're limited, and he wanted to save them."

Do you believe that slysly had night shots left but did not use any because he wanted to save them?

[I Am Innocent]

There will never be 2 night kills in this game, mark my words. The guy threw out a claim to save his own neck that did not even match his supposed role: "Backup" vs "Universal Backup". Now he supposedly has taken over a role that apparently had only one day shot (how convenient), which the flip gave no indication of limited shots. Then he says that slysly did not want to use his night shots because they were limited.....really?

If it is not Xelath today, it has to be AJtheEpic*. And when only one person dies night 2, lynch Xelath D3 no matter how much he says he is responsible for the NK....because I can see scum lining up a dead town that would be someone "town vig Xelath" might also target...

And when Xelath flips town, look at players like Stranger, Devotress, AJtheEpic if still alive and see the people avoiding his wagon/chainsawing others who attacked Xelath, etc.

*@qwints, please specify with the full name who you "investigated" last night?

[I Am Innocent]

Inny, deary:

Majiffy, Aj The Epic,

Monkeyman

,Lurker,Devotress,qwints,

PereV

I believe the foundation of the Daummy wagon was well-intentioned, but that those hopping on to counter the Epic wagon were scum. This list includes Jiffy, Epic, Lurky, Devvy, and qwinny, all of whom are my top suspects at this time. Though I sincerely doubt

all

of them are scum, I do believe at least 2-3 of them are.

Remember Xelath expressed an intent to hammer, so he should be on that list. You know I already like AJtheEpic and Devotress as scum candidates.

Also be a little wary of PereV. Anytime someone is the last to claim, they have freedom to see what else was claimed and pick something that complements the list. Granted his claim was completely off the spectrum which makes it more believable, but the fact he has not disclosed an investigation result does make me wary (though if I was scum and PereV was legit, that is who would scare me the most and who I would roleblock if I had one).

[I Am Innocent]

Apologies all. Left Christmas day for the parents, and came home new years eve with a sick wife and all the parenting duties. Have skimmed through, but need to reread as I have a ton of thoughts going through my head. Until I get through my reread, I want to ask a few questions, some individually, some to the group.

@inte, why do you continue to post in other games and not this one?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/search.php?a ... 5&sr=posts

@AuntJemina, how many posts does inte have in the qt? Is there day talk as well as night talk in there? If so, has he posted during D2 and how much?

@nostredeus, why in 1153 did you exclude the possibility that qwints is a cop and AJtheEpics is a godfather?

@majiffy, why did you think in 1335 that I would "probably hop on [your] wagon"? And what gave you a reason to think inte would probably do so as well?

@StrangerCoug, is your suspicion on me based solely on my suspecting and voting Xelath? Also, can you give me all the reasons you find Xelath town? Also, can you provide anything you have found scummy about Xelath? Also, who do you find scummy besides Monkey and myself.

@Lurker, why is the only time you have really played this game been when you had a wagon going. You submitted reads on everybody, etc at that time. Nothing since.

@anyone voting Monkey/finding Monkey suspicious - My main belief on why he is town is the reaction to 2birds when he fake vigged him. Monkey claimed VT after the fake vig (scum could not have known that was a fake vig) and prior to the mass claim. Do you really think scum would claim VT in that situation???

@EVERYONE - We have 3 claimed inspection roles, and 1 claimed backup, how many of these do you think are scum, and which ones.

@EVERYONE - We have 3 claimed inspection roles, a claimed backup converted night vig with limited shots, and neighborizer. Please rank these from greatest to least of importance to town. Also state which ones you would be willing to lynch if you felt confident that they were indeed scum.

[I Am Innocent]

@EVERYONE, (sorry forgot this question), why do you think the vig did not shoot anyone N1:
1) He couldn't, he was just a dayvig (meaning Xelath is lying)
2) He chose not to
3) He tried to shoot, but was either somehow roleblocked/jailed, or his target was protected somehow (doc/bulletproof)

[I Am Innocent]

Thoughts while I wait for everyone to answer:

@SC, in 319 you say "In other news, I smell opportunism on the 2birds1stone wagon". When I suggest in 459 that there is scum in Xelath, Lurker, & Monkey, and that is a good place to start as they all jumped on 2birds, you agreed. So how come that isn't being added to your reasons Xelath is scummy list? What do you think about Xelath's scumhunting this game also?

@SC, why is a vig more important to you than investigative roles. A vig (as was already shown D1) can hurt town by mis-shooting a town target. Cops don't cause that same pain. So can you elaborate on what I am missing?

@Nost, a Godfather investigates as innocent or town from a cop investigation, not "no result" as you are claiming it to be. Why did you think otherwise? http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Godfather

@Nost, how does everyone providing a list of how many and who specifically they find scum in the list of investigation roles and backup help scum? Also, regarding the "useless fluff that doesn't matter" comment, any stance a player makes on who might be scum and who might not helps later in the game and scum flips. So will you just answer the friggin questions already.

@Xelath, it forces people to take stances. Stances are good. Speaking of taking stances (or in your case, avoiding stances), why did you ignore my questions from 1375?

@SC please answer the followup question in 1376
@Darthe please answer the questions from 1375 & 1376. Not clarifying is not pro town.
@Nost, please answer the questions from 1375 that you ignored.
@Monkey, please answer the questions from 1375 & 1376.
@Xelath, please answer the questions from 1375.

[I Am Innocent]

So, erm, pere didn't investigate aj the epics, qwints who claimed cop did! Your answers are getting worse and worse. (Care to try again?)

So now scum are going to keep town investigative roles alive to keep investigating just because SOME players think they may be scum? LOL!!!!! Come on you can do better than that! Your answers are just becoming scum tells now.

You ignored them because you don't want to make a stance, which is what scum like to do, which you may very well be.

HOS Nost

[I Am Innocent]

@Nost, and I'll try to speak slow so you can understand....
In 1375, I asked "why in 1153 did you exclude the possibility that qwints is a cop and AJtheEpics is a godfather"
In 1393, less than 18 posts later, I say that godfathers don't come back as no result.

What made you ever think I was talking about PereV or Majiffy? And more importantly why have you still not answered my question from 1375??? If you can't find it, like a few sentences earlier in this post. Your dodging of this question is scummy.

Lol at Nost's "it would be advantageous to prioritise those investigative roles that aren't going to get lynched" Do you really think any of them will be lynched? Well maybe the scum ones after the town ones flip, but the only way the town ones will ever die is by scum NK'ing them first. Hopefully we haven't reached LyLo first which looking at the way this town is derping around it probably is going to happen.

So since investigation roles are not going to be lynched for many days, why does it hurt to see who is finds who suspicious? It doesn't. It forces town to think about it objectively, and then scum have a choice of whether they want to "suspect" their teammate or not. Puts them in an uncomfortable position....don't you think? So since it only 1) helps town & 2) puts scum in an uncomfortable position, why won't you answer my questions. Is it because I am putting you "in an uncomfortable position"?

As for "the target I want dead is also skimming all day long.", is he more or less suspicious to you than daumis, he you pushed for while I, along with the dead town vig (not x-shot town vig) defended him through L-1?

[I Am Innocent]

@ IAmInnocent: Do you believe there is anything scum to be gleaned from "rate the importance of power roles", because that is the exact kind of question that people are going to answer the same every game they are in, regardless of alignment. It really is empty content that 100% just wastes town's time.

Yes I do. And not to prove you wrong, but did you notice StrangerCoug listed vig above investigative roles? I found that odd, did you?

I specifically asked that question because SC attacked me for voting the vig, but ignored Majiffy's vote of the claimed cop later in the day. I wondered why a player would be upset voting a claimed vig (who has more holes in his story then any fake claim I have ever seen) and let go a vote on a friggin claimed cop.

At least his list of importance jived with his vote on me/not vote nor suspicion of Majiffy. Still odd tho...

So waste of town's time....not so in my opinion.

Theorizing as to why slysly's shot failed or didn't happen has already been done a little bit.

I am willing to bet a month of mafiascum time that Xelath is lying. If I'm wrong, you won't see me here for a month. So I want to know what people think. Simple question, I even gave a 1, 2, 3 choice. Don't even need to theorize, just give me a number. And when he flips scum, maybe something can be gleaned from it.

In regards to your other question I think probably one or two of the power roles is scum, but the who of it doesn't matter a lot right now because that's the kind of thing we can sort out as the game goes on. We are not lynching a claimed power role day 2 dude.
Inte is basically a vanilla though, neighborizer in a game where we day 1 mass claimed doesn't have a huge purpose anymore, so he's lynchable in theory. I'd rather know what you think about Majiffy versus Monkeyman though, thoughts?

Well it does matter now because I want people taking stances. Which one or two do you find most scummy? I find qwints and AuntJ the towniest, and Xelath scummy obv. Which means I don't fully trust PereV and/or inte. I'm going with 2 to 3 scum in the "power roles".

As for Majiffy and Monkey, I have town reads on both of them. One is a stronger read then the other, but I don't think either are scum.

[I Am Innocent]

I want to say that IamI two posts of loaded questions for us to answer, geared towards making people question the vote on monkey and seemingly redirecting the suspicion at Xelath.He also asked WHAT INVESTIGATIVE ROLE we think is lying and which we wouldn't mind losing! What kind of question is that? Why don't I just tell you who I don't want to see die tonight so they will. Personally, only scum wants a second possible vig down.

If it is so loaded, why do you worry about people questioning the vote on monkey and redirecting it to Xelath? Or are you worried because it is a legit question and a mislynch may disappear and a teammate may be in trouble?

Do you think all 3 investigative roles are telling the truth and that the backup is also telling the truth?

As for losing, I think Devotress nailed that one correctly. Inte is on the table, and if he doesn't replace out or start seriously playing, I would love to see a wagon on him going.

Oh, and how do you know that there isn't a doctor out there that can protect the person we "don't want to see die tonight"?

"Personally, only scum wants a second possible vig down" This blanket statement could only be known to be true by scum themselves. If Xelath really is a vig, and he's got targets like me (townie), player x (townie), player y (townie) in his sights, no they wouldn't want him dead.

Speaking of which, you hint that I am scum which I of course call OMGUS from D1, and hint that Xelath is really a town vig now, why would scum go toe-to-toe with a vig as I have done today? What motive is there to that??? None, so take your scum accusations elsewhere bub.

Monkey's claim of VT is bull****. Why would you go "Well, you got me! I'm scum." Even after being vigged? I think I had expressed that 2birds was most likely lying right around that time. Monkey's claim is so unimportant to me that I think it's bad you keep bringing it up. Rule number one of mafia: Don't admit you're scum. Since then, all he's done is redirect questions. His answers have never been anything better than shaky and anyone who looks at his posts can tell that he obviously is not responding well. Keeping him alive is going to cost the town in the long run. He'll always be a question mark at best, scum most likely. Those kind of players can't be kept by the town unless other players are more likely to be scum.

I definitely think that IamI signed his own "I wish to be lynched" card. Those questions came off as supremely faked with ulterior motives.

I wouldn't expect scum monkey to say "I'm scum, good job, blah blah blah". But I also wouldn't expect scum Monkey to box himself in to a VT claim the way he did at that moment. His claim came after I called out 2birds for shooting without 1st calling for a claim....remember? So Rule #1 of mafia, don't box yourself in as scum unnecessarily.

"His answers have never been anything better than shaky and anyone who looks at his posts can tell that he obviously is not responding well." There is a term on this site that I refuse to use that describes many a townie player that does this. The term I like is easy target, and we already had one of them D1. Remember, your counterwagon?

Oh and I love the "him alive is going to cost the town in the long run." Such a scummy comment, the rationalization that if he is town, it is still a good move. Gonna come back to that when he flips town. Not very different from your Daumis vote either from 979 either I see, lol:

VOTE: Daumis

For the record, I'm doing this solely because Nostre sees something here, and Daumis' claim as VT can be eliminated, same as Qwints, to give the town a higher percentage shot. I don't think Daumis is any scummier than Qwints, but given a full day tomorrow, I'll devote that to lynching him.

[I Am Innocent]

How am I dredging up something we already know when you never included AJtheEpics in the realm of possibilities?

************************************

@mod, jason, I'm counting on you to make the right call here and not feel the need to protect a player's mistake that may have boxed them in this game...

With that said, would you kindly please answer the following question:

Not saying an ability like this exist, but if a player had an x-shot ability in this game and they died, would you include the "[x] shot" part with the ability name in their death scene?

I ask because qwints mentioned in a prior game that you as a moderator did list the "[x] shot" part with the ability name in their death scene and I would assume you would treat this consistently across all games.

Mod - I can not answer this right now, sorry

.

[I Am Innocent]

Should have said

*AJtheEpics being a Godfather in the realm of possibilities?

[I Am Innocent]

Lol at Xelath saying "2 kills/night is extremely powerful" Sounds like that is coming from a scum point of view...

@Nost, if the Mod confirms that Xelath is lying, do you still agree with the statement you just made? "Dude. There's no way we're lynching Xelath, we'll know his/her alignment by tomorrow anyway."

@Nost, Devotress already explained why Inte is on the table. Majiffy and Monkey are not as connected as you say. It assumes SlySly had night shots, he didn't, he was strictly a dayvig, can't wait to laugh at you all postgame about it. It also assumes PV is telling the truth, which I don't believe.

You also assume that even if Xelath was a backup, that it is town aligned which would be a fallacy.

Oh, and all Mafia Goons would go with VT, so the fact that Darthe came back clean means if he is scum, he is a goon. So not as cleared as you make out to be.

In my mind, the 3 investigative roles are off the table, as is AJtheEpics. Your push to clear people throughout the day or shrink the list of lynchable players comes off very scummy to me.

With that said, what do you think about a Lurker or Inte lynch?

[I Am Innocent]

Devotress, those were 2 great posts and I'd like to add my thoughts:

"Wouldn't this ignoring of Majiffy's similer action point to a connection between the two?"

That was my thought and hence why I ask the question. His answers seem to line up with his thinking, so giving him the benefit of the doubt for now. Plus I don't think scum SC would be so blatant as he is pushing monkey and defending Majiffy. There is another connection that has been more subtle that has caught my eye...(more below)

"If a scum Xelath lied about being the backup it would have been straight up stupid to kill the vigilante, because how on earth is he going to make it through the game pretending he has night shots? If you were scum, and had lied about being a backup. Who would you kill?"

Well he had done a good job already pretending he does not have day shots, which I hope the mod clarifies and answers my question the same as if I had asked it in Post #4. And with a "Roleblocker" possibly out there, that possibly helps his "pretending he has night shots"

SlySly came off as the most town day 1, and killing that role leaves the lying investigative role more leeway as nobody will lynch them until the town investigative roles are killed.

On the flip side, if I was scum and Xelath was not (meaning he was a backup), I'd have killed the rolecop (assuming town) or neighborizer (assuming town) because those are the weakest roles post claim. So the fact that SlySly died makes me think that either Xelath is a scum backup (not likely since I strongly believe SlySly was just a straight DayVig, one shot per day) or Xelath is a goon (VT would have been lynched D1 without the odd claim, so claiming backup buys him an extra day in case AuntJ investigated him N1).

If AuntJ is a scum rolecop, then investigating claimed VT Darthe with possible hidden Doc/JK roles out there would be either 1) suicidal if Darthe was town because he could possibly be a doc/JK or 2) they are scum teammates.

As for qwints, the timing of his claim felt town to me. Unless you think both qwints and AJtheEpics are scum, it just doesn't make sense for scum to claim VT, then draw that kind of attention early D2 and deflect another valid lynch before any wagons started gaining steam.

Oh, and the more below comment, if Majiffy did flip scum, I'd look at Lurker and Nost as possible teammates. When it was 6 - 5 Monkey over Majiffy, Majiffy started projecting me and inte to vote for him, saying Lurker would either hammer him or make it a stalemate tie. Almost like calling out for help. Then lo and behold, for some strange reason that I still don't entirely follow, Nost hops over from Majiffy's wagon to Monkey's. That is a more valid connection than SC's in my mind. Much more subtle, which is how scum like to work.

So long story short, if it is Monkey vs Majiffy, my vote would be on Majiffy. Still have the gut telling me that both are town wagons tho.

[I Am Innocent]

^Cool story?

Nos is definite town this time. I like his thoughts above.

Innocent is less so.

So, we really only have 4 candidates to choose from. Lurker, StrangeCoug, Monkey, and Innocent.

Most pressure is on monkey and innocent. Least is on coug. Let's beat the grass here.

vote innocent [/ b] if im not already

First of all, may want to fix your bold there.

Second of all, why are you voting me? Why am I "less so"? Specific examples please.

Third of all, I want your top 4 suspects currently.

[I Am Innocent]

Also Darthe, please be specific on what thoughts of Nos you liked above. Thanks.

[I Am Innocent]

"...but at the point where you're response to statistically relevant connections is "oh but what about this alternative which has a small probability of occurring"..."

Statistically relevent connections???

There are 3 sensible explanations here; assuming all players are playing at their best:

1) Quints is a Godfather and Aj the E is scum; if so that's a clever move guys but I'm not sure how it'll work out for you guys later in the game.

(This is actually quite tempting; a bulletproof Godfather quints who SlySly targeted last night, oh I really hope this is the right option I'd love to hand out a high five for that play and careful manoeuvring.)


2) Quints is a non-Godfather scum and fake claimed.

3) Quints is a cop and Aj the E is town.


Darthe, why in any of those situations would we want to lynch quints when we can deal with him/her another way for 0 risk?

I love how my qwints is cop and AJtheEpics is godfather is "small probability" but qwints is Godfather and AJtheEpics is scum (#1 above) is Statistically relevant.

Nice try.

How about this one....what is more likely? PV, the last person to claim, 1) drew a scum role, or 2) drew a lie detector role?

I'll give you a clue which is more statistically relevant....probably random 4/17 for #1 and <1/300 for #2, based on I have never ever in my 25 completed games on this site played with one, and assuming roughly 12 people on average per game (which is probably a low estimate). But yet you base a whole friggin Monkey/Majiffy connection on PV being roleblocked or one being immunity investigated or something, when there is less than a 1% chance that the last person who claimed has this role. And coincidentally enough, got no information return N1.

Statistics is my background bub, don't go there.

***********

@Darthe, saw you online earlier, why didn't you answer my question?

[I Am Innocent]

Day 1 Vote Count 15

Daumis123 9-

StrangerCoug

,

Nostredeus

,

Majiffy

,

Aj The Epic

,Monkeyman,

Lurker

,Devotress,qwints,PereV

Day 2 Vote Count 5

Monkey 7

Aj The Epic

,

StrangerCoug

,

Majiffy

,Xelath,Darthe,

Nostredeus

,

Lurker

Lol....yeah we're likely to get different results. (And this doesn't factor in Xelath's declaration to hammer Daumis D1 and also being on monkey's wagon D2, or qwint's declaration to hammer Monkey D2 and being on the wagon D1.

Still say scum would never have boxed themselves in D1 with the VT claim after the fake dayvig shot.

If you are town and on Monkey's wagon, unvote before the hammer. The similar wagons plus logic I have reiterated over and over should hopefully show that Monkey, like Daumis, is the easy mislynch.

@

qwints or anyone willing to hammer

, if you do before inte is replaced/votes, that is very scummy. FTR, inte has made 0 VOTES THIS GAME! And people say Monkey is a bad player to take to the end of the game.

If Xelath is off limits* and since Monkey is town guys, I will go for the 3rd player to jump on 2birds D1 as well as someone who hopped on both Daumis and Monkey, that is Lurker. I suggest you do the same.

unvote Xelath
vote Lurker

*Jason, very disappointed in you for not answering my question. I seriously considered replacing out as your decision not to answer is definitely to protect scum lies, which is not your job as moderator imo.

[I Am Innocent]

Day 1 Vote Count 5

Xelath 7 - IamInnocent,Aunt Jemina, CommieX,Shotty,Nostredeus,MonkeyMan576,

2birds1stone

Monkeyman 3-

SlySly

,StrangerCoug,Xelath
nostredeus 2 - Darthe,Majiffy
Aunt Jemima 1 - Devotress,
Daumis123 1 - Aj The Epic
2Birds 1 - Lurker,

Not Voting

inte

Daumis123

,

Day 1 begins with 17 alive needing 9 to lynch

.

(expired on 2012-12-19 14:12:41)

till Day 1 Deadline

When Xelath flips scum, please come back to this post/vote count. Probably one, maybe two scum bussing, odds are one of the investigative roles since all 3 slots are on the wagon.

Thoughts on N1
-SlySly faked having night shots to try to draw the roleblock. Notice he never called for the JK to not protect him like I suggested D1...odd for someone who "only had night shots left" at Xelath is claiming. His "limited" use was likely that he was actually just a strict day vig, hence the no mention of x-shots when he flipped. His N1 targets were mostly/all town, so scum had no or little reason to roleblock him (assuming they had one), but decided to kill him as he would be a threat later days/nights and was as confirmed town as anyone.
-Either PV was roleblocked, or PV is scum pretending to be roleblocked and scum does not have a roleblocker. I lean towards the latter as the timing of PV's claim (last) and target/reason for target (Majiffy/because he had another game with him or something) seem most suspect
-qwint's investigation target (AJtheEpics) was the best of the 3 and coming out with a fake claim after 2 other investigation roles D1 would be crazy for scum.

[I Am Innocent]

Similar wagons? Everyone that isn't underlined in the first wagon is on MY wagon. The COUNTERWAGON to the Monkey lynch.

Justifying anything off VCA that doesn't even have a flip is just god awful btw.

If you say so....

If qwints hammers, that makes 7 of 8 players on Daumis's final wagon or had the intent to be on his wagon (Xelath declared intent to hammer Daumis) on Monkey's too. Highly correlated no??? Or in less smart talk, does it give you a comfortable feel that Monkey is really scum???

@Xelath, if Monkey is lynched and flips town like I suspect, would you have a town read on me/at least not consider me a "night vig" target? I want this on record because my NK would make for an easy reason why only 1 person would die N2 under these circumstances otherwise.

[I Am Innocent]

And as for PV lying. Why in god's name wouldn't PV have claimed VT, that's utterly ridiculous. But even if we assume for a minute that PV is lying we get so much more information about this if Monkey flips anything other than Bulletproof, so even if you want to go down that route a Monkey lynch is good for town.

PV also bread crumbed his claim before hand. So even less of a possibility of him fake claiming.

BTW, this is horrible. Please provide your definition of breadcrumbing and the post where you say he did it.

[I Am Innocent]

Gosh you scumz. When are we lynching monkey again?

Do you think he should be lynched before inte posts/votes?

Also, why did you never answer my other 2 questions, who are your top 4 suspects and why am I suspect.

(By the way, your answer to the 3rd question was lame/lazy...."all of it")

[I Am Innocent]

It would be funny if this is a AuntJ/Darthe/Nost/SC scumteam.

It would be even funnier for me personally.

How come you made 26 posts in other threads over multiple days in between your posts here on 12/29 and 1/6? Why is this game getting ignored?

[I Am Innocent]

@Lurker, why is the only time you have really played this game been when you had a wagon going. You submitted reads on everybody, etc at that time. Nothing since.

Please answer. Also Top 4 suspects please.

[I Am Innocent]

Before calling it horrible, I suggest you check.

Lol, did check. And it is still horrible.

848, claims town power role (Check in). 862, He asks for claims and states his role has been mentioned before (was mentioned by me). And to finalize it, when people still were having issues, 866 he states "I hope we have lying town prs". So within 8 posts of him coming in, we knew his role.

Why haven't you given me a definition of a breadcrumb?

848...how many people claimed by then.....(answer: ALL OF THEM!) So how can you crumb a claim when everyone has already claimed during a mass claim process?

Here is a good example of a real breadcrumb, look at the first letter of my first 3 posts on Page 1. C.O.P......breadcrumbing at its finest:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=22888

PS - FTR, I was scum that game, so even if you were right about PV breadcrumbing, it means nothing!

[I Am Innocent]

I'm not going to say who, if anyone, I plan to vig or not vig tonight

That's okay, I knew you wouldn't, but it is now on record. Which is all I cared for anyway scum...

[I Am Innocent]

This^

Some of us worked it out then kept it quiet (or in my case made misleading guesses then breadcrumbing the actual answer) so that scum (that'd be you Iam) might miss it, apparently it worked nicely.

Yeah, because PV had no investigation result and couldn't have possibly been roleblocked, huh?

Wait I forgot, you have your genius strategy that Majiffy is immune investigated, to go along with a Lie Detector Role and Backup (not UNIVERSAL BACKUP which powers he claims to have) roles we have in this game. Lol.

Simple answer, which is usually the most likely answer is found in 1480.

[I Am Innocent]

Each Night the Lie Detector sends the Moderator a post or statement made by another player, and the Moderator tells the Lie Detector whether that other player was telling the truth when they made that post.

A sample use of this power would be to find out whether a role claim is true or not. However, trying to use this ability on something that cannot be verified objectively (i.e. whether someone was telling the truth when they said that a wall of text was a waste of time) the moderator will likely just say "I don't know".

Based on this, there are 3 answers:
1) PV, your lying about your role or results
2) PV you were roleblocked
3) Majiffy is immune investigated.

I agree with Majiffy that it is a big leap to go from #2 to #3.

[I Am Innocent]

@PV

A Godfather is a role that investigates as Innocent (or some other favorable result) to Cops, regardless of their actual alignment.

Since you are not a cop, I would assume the result would come back false pertaining to them saying "I am town"

"If I was roleblocked, then why me and why not SlySly or AuntJ?"

I already said that post mass claim, rolecop is very useless. For instance, say inte is a Scum Neighborizer, rolecop tells AuntJ nothing other than inte was being truthful about his ability.

And they must not have been worried about slysly's list of suspects, or thought they could lose one but getting rid of his power was worth it.

"If scum knew they were killing SlySly and believe Xelath to be the backup and knew he was going to inherit it, then why not kill inte and give the town backup a crap role, weakening us further?"

EXACTLY. Which points to one of Xelath or inte being scum, with possibly one of Xelath and AuntJ being scum as well (I'd have given the rolecop post mass claim to a Backup before I would a vig role).

What are your thoughts on this last question you posed?

[I Am Innocent]

EBWOP, and mafia goons likely said VT, which renders rolecop useless in this way too.

[I Am Innocent]

RE PV 1517:

"Meaning a GF would not be immune to my investigation of a statement made by the GF?"

That's how I'd interpret it.

"I missed where you said this. Where did you say, prior to the massclaim, that rolecop would be useless? If you said it after the massclaim, what post did you say rolecop was now useless (since everyone has massclaimed)?"

It was just this past weekend, post mass claim:

...On the flip side, if I was scum and Xelath was not (meaning he was a backup), I'd have killed the rolecop (assuming town) or neighborizer (assuming town) because those are the weakest roles post claim. So the fact that SlySly died makes me think that either Xelath is a scum backup (not likely since I strongly believe SlySly was just a straight DayVig, one shot per day) or Xelath is a goon (VT would have been lynched D1 without the odd claim, so claiming backup buys him an extra day in case AuntJ investigated him N1)...

"If AuntJ is scum, then she took a chance with clearing Darth-town, as he could have been town lying about being VT (qwints), which would mean Darth is more likely to be scum, and AuntJ investigated someone else entirely. Or scum-AuntJ gambled on Darth telling the truth, or scum-AuntJ actually investigated town-Darth thinking he was lying about VTness.
Which do you think more likely?"

Darthe could also have been a Doctor/JK who had permission to claim VT. So if AuntJ is scum (rolecop or not), I think Darthe would have to be as well. Anything else would have been too risky imo. Or AuntJ is town and Darthe is either VT/Mafia Goon.

In other words, these seem possible:
Both Scum
Both Town
AuntJ Town/Darthe Scum

While this does not:
AuntJ Scum/Darthe Town

I still do not see where you answered your last question:

"If scum knew they were killing SlySly and believe Xelath to be the backup and knew he was going to inherit it, then why not kill inte and give the town backup a crap role, weakening us further"

Do you think this increases Xelath's chances of being scum?

[I Am Innocent]

quote="In post 625, Xelath"]Fine, I'll claim. I don't have a role... yet. I'm the town backup.[/quote]

*cough*
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... sal_Backup
*cough*

Well that took you less than 3 minutes to reply, so you sound well versed on this role. I've only ever played with a Backup Cop before. Have you played with this "Universal Backup" role before....if so, please link to the game.

Also, do you find the lack of the word "universal" in Xelath's post to be important? Town Backup based on wiki is much different that Universal Backup on wiki imo...

Fine, I'll claim. I don't have a role... yet. I'm the town backup.

I didn't say universal because that is nowhere in my role name or description.

AJtheE, you are correct, he claimed backup, not universal backup, which are two completely different roles according to wiki and another reason I have a problem with his claim:

Backup roles are typically linked with a primary role, and don't get to use their action until an/the active role of the same name dies. Backup Cop and Backup Doctor (sometimes called Deputy and Nurse respectively) are common roles to utilise this modifier; but Trackers, Vigilantes, and Roleblockers (amongst others) are all roles that occasionally might have a Back-up...A Back-up in a game without a primary role present is essentially a Named Townie.

(Named Townie according to wiki is A Named Townie is a role that has no real abilities, but differs from a normal Vanilla Townie in the sense it has a unique title or attribute.)

As for Universal Backup: At start, this role is effectively an ordinary Townie. However, whenever the first power role dies (i.e. Doctor, Cop, Vigilante, etc.), the Universal back-up inherits that power role and can use it themselves. Thus, Universal Backup is a Backup that is not specific to any particular role.

**********

Interesting point was Xelath claimed backup, and qwints tried to correct that quickly in 696.

[I Am Innocent]

As for "Also, would universal backup work to Xelath becoming a neighborizer?"

Universal Backup: However, whenever the first power role dies (i.e. Doctor, Cop, Vigilante, etc.), the Universal back-up inherits that power role and can use it themselves.

Power Role: A power role is any role that is not Vanilla.

So according to wiki, Neighborizer is a power role and would be game for the universal backup

[I Am Innocent]

As of midnight tonight, EST the mod granted V/LA is considered over for all but those who declared a longer V/LA. Anyone who does not post within 24 hours of midnight will receive a prod. Failure to post by Sunday 6pm EST will see a replacement be advertised for.

Is inte being replaced? Saw nothing in the replacement thread.

If so, can we get a day extension for a replacement to be found and have a chance to read the thread and post thoughts?

[I Am Innocent]

P1 is likely wrong. Why do you think a vig with 1 day shot and the rest night shots would have been so disbelieving of another claimed dayvig (2birds)?

And why would a player who supposedly had no day shots left (after shooting 2birds) admit to having night shots and rendering himself useless (since scum usually have a RBer)?

And why does his flip mention nothing about x-shot day vig?

And why would the mod not answer my question if it didn't hurt Xelath/scum?

Could it be, that slysly, a smart player, was trying to draw the rb'er N1 by lying about his declaration of having night shots???

Could it be that he was a straight dayvig, and that is why he was suspect of another claimed dayvig?

Could it be that he was a straight dayvig, hence why his flip never mentioned anything about X-shots?

Could it be that he was a straight dayvig, and that is why the Mod refuses to answer my question, gift wrapping scum for town?

Your problem Nost is that if/when Monkey flips town, you are going to say SlySly was RB'd, let's kill majiffy now as he must be immune investigated, and then he flips town. By my math, assuming 1 NK a night since Xelath is lying scum, that likely gets it down to 6 vs 4.

So you are either scum trying to get us to MyLo quickly, or the most closed minded town I have played with in a long time.

My story lines up. Admit it.

[I Am Innocent]

But, in answer to all the incredulity, yes, the daykill's legit, and yes, I have more of them.

I'll do it for you, inte.

Why did you lie here, 2birds?

Strange that he is

so sure a guy is lying

who could have as few as 2 day kills would be so suspected by a guy with only 1 day kill...

Xelath, what are your thoughts on this?

[I Am Innocent]

Whether or not you think Xelath is up for a lynch or not D2, I want everyone on record before this day ends, do you believe:

1) Xelath is scum
2) Xelath is town

I'll go first......

1

[I Am Innocent]

Checking the mod's meta seems to suggest that he normally flips x-shot roles as "x-shot role." It's also worth noting that Slysly didn't say he was an x-shot vig, just that

My power is limited, but only I know how limited it is. Scum have to go after me. While I live, that protects more important town PR's.

See DC Universe Large theme and Mini 1120 - X-Files

Good reading while we wait for inte's replacement...

[I Am Innocent]

SlySly was Robbie Williams, Town Vig killed night 1

From wiki:

A Vigilante is a Townie who can kill a player at Night.

Using traditional flavors, Vigilantes share the "shot" kill flavor with the Mafia. Thus, their kills ware indistinguishable from those of the Mafia in this case.

While a few moderators prefer to defy meta and use Mafia Vigilantes to allow multiple scumkills from a single faction, the vast majority of Vigilantes are Town.

This version of Vigilante, as well as the variations below except the Arsonist, are considered Normal on mafiascum.net.

Variations

This role is can typically only be used a limited number of times per game. These are called X-Shot Vigilantes (where 'X' can be replaced with the number of times they can kill over the course of the game).

There is no consensus in regards to whether an X-Shot Vigilante loses one of its ability uses if it is Roleblocked while trying to kill someone.

In games with nontraditional kill flavors, it is by no means a requirement for the vigilante to have a kill flavor indistinguishable from that of the Mafia.

One of the most coveted variations of this ability is the Dayvig, which is a Vigilante that can kill during the Day. Depending on the game, the Dayvig may be able to submit its kill privately, or it may be forced to declare its kill publicly. Daykills are not normally stoppable by active abilities, so Dayvigs are considerably more potent than ordinary Vigilantes.

The Arsonist variation is functionally similar to a Vigilante.

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Key lines:

A Vigilante is a Townie who can kill a player at Night. (We know this is not what SlySly was as he proved his daykill against 2birds)

This role is can typically only be used a limited number of times per game.

These are called X-Shot Vigilantes

(This does not appear to be slysly since his flip was not "X-Shot Vigilante")

One of the most coveted variations of this ability is the Dayvig, which is a Vigilante that can kill during the Day. Depending on the game, the Dayvig may be able to submit its kill privately, or it may be forced to declare its kill publicly. (Ding Ding Ding, we have a winner)

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I've never seen a Dayvig flip as a "Dayvig", just a "Vigilante".

We already have evidence that jason flips x-shot vigs as "X-Shot Vigilantes" (notice they use the word "called" for this role, but not the dayvig role).

Anyone that thinks SlySly had the ability to shoot at night is either scummy or not thinking. Plain and simple. He was a Dayvig, which meant he could kill one person a day. And since that does not line up with Xelath's backup claim, he is lying scum.

Further proof is that scum would have not wanted a 2nd town player to ever have this role, when they could have easily given them a neighborizer or rolecop (post claim) that are mostly/totally useless.

[I Am Innocent]

SC, I gave my thoughts on the AuntJ/Darthe connection in 1528

[I Am Innocent]

@SC, based on Jason's meta and Xelath's description of the role he inherited, why do you not think slysly's flip mentioned anything about x-shot? And if Xelath is truly town, why didn't scum kill AuntJ or inte first? And why would slysly tip his hand that he had night shots as well if that is all he had left? Wouldn't smart town play be to fake dayvig and avoid a RBer and get a clean shot off at night???

You say Xelath is suicidal, but earlier D2 when I swore there would only be 1 kill, you immediately jumped down my throat saying a RBer was going to interfere. Or say a scummy town player dies N2 that Xelath claims to have shot too. So many ways to avoid him being an autolynch tomorrow. So why so suicidal if he truly is scum? He escaped the jaws of death D1 when he threw out that crazy backup claim. Then D2 when we wanted to see him do what his predecessor did, oh wait, he couldn't because gosh darn, he only had one of those. So live to see another day.

One of you and Nost has to be town, I'm not giving up until that player sees the light.

[I Am Innocent]

Inny and Darthy, might I inquire as to your wasted votes? Why are they where they are, and who would you switch to, between Monkey and Jiffy? Qwinny has stated his preference, but I wish to have yours as well.

Devotress, those were 2 great posts and I'd like to add my thoughts:

"Wouldn't this ignoring of Majiffy's similer action point to a connection between the two?"

That was my thought and hence why I ask the question. His answers seem to line up with his thinking, so giving him the benefit of the doubt for now. Plus I don't think scum SC would be so blatant as he is pushing monkey and defending Majiffy. There is another connection that has been more subtle that has caught my eye...(more below)

"If a scum Xelath lied about being the backup it would have been straight up stupid to kill the vigilante, because how on earth is he going to make it through the game pretending he has night shots? If you were scum, and had lied about being a backup. Who would you kill?"

Well he had done a good job already pretending he does not have day shots, which I hope the mod clarifies and answers my question the same as if I had asked it in Post #4. And with a "Roleblocker" possibly out there, that possibly helps his "pretending he has night shots"

SlySly came off as the most town day 1, and killing that role leaves the lying investigative role more leeway as nobody will lynch them until the town investigative roles are killed.

On the flip side, if I was scum and Xelath was not (meaning he was a backup), I'd have killed the rolecop (assuming town) or neighborizer (assuming town) because those are the weakest roles post claim. So the fact that SlySly died makes me think that either Xelath is a scum backup (not likely since I strongly believe SlySly was just a straight DayVig, one shot per day) or Xelath is a goon (VT would have been lynched D1 without the odd claim, so claiming backup buys him an extra day in case AuntJ investigated him N1).

If AuntJ is a scum rolecop, then investigating claimed VT Darthe with possible hidden Doc/JK roles out there would be either 1) suicidal if Darthe was town because he could possibly be a doc/JK or 2) they are scum teammates.

As for qwints, the timing of his claim felt town to me. Unless you think both qwints and AJtheEpics are scum, it just doesn't make sense for scum to claim VT, then draw that kind of attention early D2 and deflect another valid lynch before any wagons started gaining steam.

Oh, and the more below comment, if Majiffy did flip scum, I'd look at Lurker and Nost as possible teammates. When it was 6 - 5 Monkey over Majiffy, Majiffy started projecting me and inte to vote for him, saying Lurker would either hammer him or make it a stalemate tie. Almost like calling out for help. Then lo and behold, for some strange reason that I still don't entirely follow, Nost hops over from Majiffy's wagon to Monkey's. That is a more valid connection than SC's in my mind. Much more subtle, which is how scum like to work.

So long story short, if it is Monkey vs Majiffy, my vote would be on Majiffy. Still have the gut telling me that both are town wagons tho.

.

[I Am Innocent]

He's been given more than enough chances to post meaningful content, and he has not followed through.

Do you consider votes to be meaningful content? I do. How about stances on who is scum, is that helpful in figuring out scum late game?

Vote: Aunt Jemina

For proposing a massclaiming but not offering her own claim.

if AuntJ is town and scum clearly know she has a significant role she'd be a good mislynch for them today.

How would scum know if TownAuntJ has a significant role? If anything, I don't think someone with a significant role would suggest something as stupid as a massclaim.

Not liking the WIFOM.

FOS: Nostredeus

Not liking who StrangerCoug is defending(AuntJ, Nostredeus).

Vote: StrangerCoug

I'm thinking a StrangerCoug and 2birds scumteam right now.

2birds is lying. I am not bulletproof and I know of no way to block a daykill.

Unvote:
Vote: 2birds

AuntJ seems to have caught Xelath in a scumslip.

Unvote:
Vote: Xeleth

FOS: SlySly

For warming up to massclaim. And for accusing someone of lying without a good reason. I still like my Xelath vote though.

Actually, I'd like to

Vote: SlySly

Unvote: SlySly
Vote: Xelath

If he's claiming vig, then I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and go to my original suspect.

Couldn't SlySly be a Serial Killer with daykill ability?

I agree with Nost. Moreover, I don't see SlySly as conftown at all.

FOS: AuntJ

Unvote:
Vote: Inte

A lot of his scumreads seem overreactive. His lynch should give us a lot of info as to if he's targeting people that are town and protecting scum.

Uh, you don't care about what happens to townies?

FOS: Daumis

Why is lurker a better lynch than daumis?

Unvote:
Vote: Daumis123

Just for the record, I think AJ is town. The case seems pretty weak from what I've read.

Looks like Devotress may be on to something. People should definately be asked to justify inactivity or explain voting without any reasons.

Unvote:
Vote: Qwints

I think one of either AJ or qwints is scum, therefore I am willing to compromise if needed to get a lynch on one of them.

As far as townie's go, you won't lose much by lynching me since I'm vanilla. However, I am town and qwints does look like the best lynch today, despite what AuntJ says. I am starting to see the possibility of a Nost/SC scum team with the way they seem to be wanting to stall a lynch.

(sigh...just going to do votes now as I have to get my daughters ready for that 8am b-ball game...)

Unvote:
Vote: Daumis1234

Vote: Xelath

He and qwints looked very opportunistic at the end of the lynch yesterday.

Well, if Xelath is claiming to be active...

Unvote:
Vote: Qwints

I'm pretty sure slysly said he had more than one daykill, right? it was just a question if it was successfull or not. Xelath's story isn't adding up.

Unvote:
Vote: Xelath

Ok, so qwints is scum.

Xelath is presumed scum unless he provides a kill.

Good idea to put pressure on some other iffy people.

Unvote:
Vote: I Am Innocent

Unvote:
Vote: Darthe

Acknowledging that people want to leave power roles alone for now, Darthe is the best suspect of the vanillas.

Vote: Majiffy

Willing to see where this goes.

Lynching townies to clear townies is not a good plan. Besideswhich lyching me does not clear anyone.

Unvote:
Vote: Darthe

Someone feel free to count up how many votes he has placed, and on how many different players. Whatever that number is (say X), is still X more votes than inte has placed. And way more stances than Lurker has taken, which is really to say, only when his wagon grew Day 1 did he give a read on every player (excluding one that is).

Monkey has been playing. Unless you think he has bussed his partners, I don't see him as scum for suspecting everybody. Not typical scum play.

Factor in the boxing himself in with the unnecessary VT claim, it doesn't add up.

And finally, when you factor in Xelath's intent to hammer D1 and qwints intent to hammer D2, the wagon on Daumis & Monkey almost completely overlap. So why would scum be so willing to bus Monkey with so many viable wagons? Or were there no scum on Daumis's wagon? Also means, if/when Monkey (easy mislynch target) flips town, we are back to square 1 since the wagons mirror each other.

Best lynch today, someone who has laid low except under pressure, someone on both Daumis's & Monkey's wagon, someone who also as Stranger pointed out, was on the opportunistic 2birds wagon: Lurker. Better lynch target than Majiffy, and much better than the easy town mislynch today.

My suggestion, Majiffy voters hop to Lurker, and let's see if we can get scum to sweat it a little bit

.

[I Am Innocent]

And whether you decide to vote Lurker or not, I would like it on record your read on him.

PS - Darthe, why have you still not said your suspicions on me and given me your top 4 suspects???

[I Am Innocent]

Lurker strikes me as the kind of player who is completely without use to town. I have the feeling that this is just the way he' plays, and It's hard to decide one way or the other scum or town. Obviously he can't be let get to the end the way he's posting, but lynching him feels more like a policy lynch or something then actual scum hunting. I feel like we get as much info out of lurker's lynch as we do his posts, not a lot.

If we lynch Lurker and he flips town, who are you suspicious of going into tomorrow? If he flips scum?

If we lynch Lurker and he flips town, I will not be killed tonight and if Monkey is town, he will not either, and I think we would be top 2 lynch targets D3 (Monkey for being the counterwagon, me for pushing Lurker's wagon). I guess a lot would depend on the # of NK's, what the investigation targets say, etc.

Also, the D1 wagon of Lurker (received 6 straight votes) would be another area to look regardless of flip (Nost, AuntJ, me, qwints, AJtheE, and Xelath). If Lurker/scum, end of that wagon might have some scum on it (bussing), if Lurker/town, there could be scum throughout that wagon.

It is interesting, for those who find Monkey suspicious, I believe he has voted 10 different people this game, but he did not vote Lurker at the time of that wagon. As a matter of fact, he threw a single vote at inte shortly after that 6th vote.

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@SC

"Votes on their own have little meaning." Disagree. If you vote someone who is a teammate, and a serious wagon happens on them later, it is harder to avoid bussing.

"Where has anyone accused MonkeyMan576 of suspecting everybody?" I have. The guy has voted 10 people, with a game less than 20 and he is one of the players, that is pretty sizeable. Have you ever seen scum do that before?

"I am here to catch scum, not play WIFOM games." Weak reply. How about you tell me who you think was scum on the Daumis wagon then?

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@Darthe

Top 4 suspects, NOW. And why you find me suspicious, NOW. And your read on Lurker, NOW.

[I Am Innocent]

I asked who you would be suspicious of if he flips town going into tomorrow, and you gave a generic answer about who you think town as a whole would be suspicious of. You also didn't answer who you'd be suspicious of in the event he flips scum.

If Lurker flipped town, it would solidify my scum suspicion of Xelath, as I would be shocked if scum (at least one, maybe more) didn't jump on 2birds with the failed day vig shot D1. As you'll remember, Xelath, Lurker, and Monkey were the three on that wagon. I stand by my town read of Monkey for the multiple reasons already stated.

If Lurker flipped scum, I'd have to see reactions around the wagon that would get him lynched D2 (so far it is a wagon of 1), the wagon he had D1, and look through his posts/votes for clues. So to be frank, not really sure as of yet.

Why does it matter?

#1655 (end of) is, as ever, bad.

Humor me with specifics please...

[I Am Innocent]

Thanks Jason for modding.

All in all, one of the worst performances by town I have ever seen. And that includes me.

AuntJ, you had me fooled.

Well played.

PUTTING THIS HERE AND NOW, I WILL NEVER AGREE TO A MASSCLAIM D1 AGAIN (as town anyway...)

Xelath, terrible shot N2, you not only picked someone who was on neither mislynching wagon, but someone going toe to toe with you D2....is that something scum, who knew you must be legit, would do? No, they'd be kissing your butt so you'll shoot elsewhere. You redeemed yourself somewhat with the Devo shot tho.

All in all, I am still shocked you flipped town and AuntJ scum. The others, not surprised about. With that said, I am a man of my word...

I am willing to bet a month of mafiascum time that Xelath is lying. If I'm wrong, you won't see me here for a month.

...when I die in my last open game, I'll start the clock on my hiatus. Try not to miss me too much peeps!