Scummies Invitational 2012 (Game Over)

Tierce · Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:38 pm

In post 2284, xRECKONERx wrote:uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

nacho is alive what the literal fuck are you saying tierce

Exactly--and there's a missing kill.

Tierce · Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:06 am

In post 2295, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:
In post 2286, Tierce wrote:
In post 2284, xRECKONERx wrote:uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

nacho is alive what the literal fuck are you saying tierce
Exactly--and there's a missing kill.
Did you even read what Magua said yesterday

I did. Did you read my posts and notice that there's only one kill, plus Magua's own death roleblocked him? There's a missing kill, unless you're suggesting BOTH factions killed him. And there's a missing known-SK kill N1.

Benmage--long day ahead of me, I have to think and reread. But giving a roll of baseless Townreads when there are lots of options to pick lynches from doesn't seem difficult to do as scum.

Tierce · Thu Oct 03, 2013 2:15 pm

I already knew about Daytalk (zor loves it and I did see it in the rules), but yes, I missed the fact that the award roles were flipped on death. No, I have not played in a zoraster game before, though obviously I had an inkling he tends to roleblock people about to be killed. MD discussion + reading previous games, IIRC.

And the Magua issue is unlike mine--if I were to use my role over N1, I had to use it on D2, to guarantee CES didn't die N1 (the replacement doesn't wait for a cycle to resolve, it hits whenever zor gets confirmation about it). My award role cannot be roleblocked, so the only way it could be affected by a Nightkill is if I am dead /a cycle before I use it/. It won't be stopped if I am killed at Night, but the moment zor announces it the scum could choose to change their NK target before the NK goes through--which is why I (still) need protection if CES happens to flip groupscum by some miracle of destiny.

Nice jab at Sixty! Because you have been really competent in this game and everywhere else when it comes to understanding things and not being an idiot! Because, you know, people on hydras don't happen to discuss things with each other at all and see if there are crucial flaws in their concepts before bringing them out! What did I do here? Oh, right, I wanted /feedback/ because I'm one person and had reached the limit of my analysis. Wow, let's just jump to not only calling Tierce scum, but calling her stupid for wanting opinions. Because that's going to help when Tierce is unlynchable. What great piece of confTown you are.

But wait, he claims he can read me if he riles me up! Then why does he keep calling me scum in every game regardless of my alignment? That's right, because he's terrible at reading me and chooses to be insane.

Tierce · Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:08 pm

In post 2340, hitogoroshi wrote:Tierce: What I call "strong null", which is null, but not lack of content null (fucking obviously) but rather multiple points pinging the towndar and the scumdar.

Hi.

You talked about something being discussed in the party / happening with the N1 flips that made me pretty likely Town. What happened to that?

Tierce · Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:29 pm

Fair enough. Do you think there's a danger in revealing what [unlikely thing] is?

Tierce · Sun Oct 06, 2013 7:09 pm

In post 2402, Nachomamma8 wrote:Feirei's a pretty poor vote, hito.

When did this change?

Tierce · Sun Oct 06, 2013 7:15 pm

And we didn't get an insight on this before because...?

Tierce · Sun Oct 06, 2013 7:20 pm

In post 2406, Nachomamma8 wrote:I just got that insight...?

"Feirei's a pretty poor vote" from someone who was defending lynching Feirei until very recently isn't exactly an explanation.

Tierce · Sun Oct 06, 2013 7:28 pm

In post 2297, Benmage wrote:
In post 2296, Tierce wrote:Benmage--long day ahead of me, I have to think and reread. But giving a roll of baseless Townreads when there are lots of options to pick lynches from doesn't seem difficult to do as scum.
Well, I disagree that there's such a plethora of mislynches available.

Beginner scum don't want to mindlessly announce Town-reads... and this read genuine rather than calculated. Take another gander... not peta's AtE exit. It all reads genuine. Make a list of who could be the remaining 4.. then remember you probably didn't name the exact 4, so expand it a bit... and for the love of god, stop auto-assuming shit players are scum (thats more a statement for all, not you specifically Tierce...).

I'm not assuming that. Note Bulbazak Townread, etc. I wish it worked like that, my lynch roll would be far more satisfying.

But no, I don't really think what SD is doing (and NOT doing) is genuine. On petapan, he's a decent scum player, and while he probably wouldn't care overmuch in his exist post, I don't think that one was a particularly Townish post.

Tierce · Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:44 pm

He's probably telling the truth. I don't see how Double Day is disastrous now. Lynch Fate, if he flips SK, flip SD if you really want at that point. Incongruous behavior, etc.

Or lynch DeasVail! That'd be cool too.

UNVOTE: SalmonellaDreams
VOTE: Fate

Tierce · Mon Oct 07, 2013 2:26 pm

Because he has the equivalent of a guilty as far as a roleblocker goes...? In which world do you lynch

Zdenek

the claimed cop before testing his guilty results outside of LyLo?

In the meantime, let me go unfurl my giant I Told You So banners.

Tierce · Mon Oct 07, 2013 2:49 pm

Incidentally, as bothered as I am about SalmonellaDreams calling Fate probTown on D2, I am not at all bothered by him roleblocking someone he thought was a VT over scum--if he has no scumreads, the best thing a compulsive roleblocker can do is stay out of the way.

All situations do

not

end the same way. If we lynch SalmonellaDreams Today and Fate is the SK,

Fate gets a Nightkill

. This is not the same result as lynching the SK first.

Stop defending him and let Fate speak for himself, Reck. You've made your point, but the situations aren't really quite the same. There's an extra kill if Fate is the SK that we wouldn't have to deal with if we lynch him first.

Tierce · Mon Oct 07, 2013 3:04 pm

In post 2499, xRECKONERx wrote:@Tierce: And if we lynch Fate today and he's NOT the SK, THE SERIAL KILLER STILL GETS A GODDAMNED NIGHT KILL. Considering the fact that SD has been scummy and just pulled this claim out of his ass at L-1, and blocking someone you think is town isn't actually internally congruent with how town would play that role. Even if Fate is the SK and does get a NK, there's NOTHING to suggest he'd hit town over scum.

If he has no strong scumreads, yes, it is perfectly internally consistent to try and block someone he doesn't think is a Town PR. He went for

vanilla

, he wasn't specifically trying to block Town. No one would claim that, that would be stupid regardless of alignment.

As for "pulling this claim out of his ass at L-1", you're being unfair. He's at L-1, he has to claim. His role is not his fault, and not everyone will have the most structured claim with breadcrumbs and logical thinking all over the place. This isn't quite on the same level as you claiming Watcher in Destiny Mafia. His claim makes sense as both Town or scum, but I can indeed see some Town motivation in it and I don't see why he would be going for Fate as scum if he didn't have a really damned good reason. He could be getting you, Matias, hito--all of whom look like Town who are putting a lot more effort into the game than Fate is and, from my own selfish PoV, being

far better at reads than Fate is

.

You've made your point. You're not going to convince people, and we're not going to convince you. Just let Fate speak for himself, now.

Tierce · Mon Oct 07, 2013 4:57 pm

Yawn.

Guess what, I'm okay with a Fate flip.

Tierce · Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:02 pm

How droll. Several more pages of capslock drivel by caught scum.

Nacho--why Salmonella first?

Tierce · Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:08 pm

In post 2537, Fate wrote:I love that your pushing this agenda as "caught scum" when even if I WERE scum it would only be SK

Yep, because lynching the SK is totally a bad thing~

Tierce · Mon Oct 07, 2013 7:29 pm

In post 2546, Fate wrote:as long as
I
get to make a deal that we lynch Tierce after I flip town

It's alright, Fate. We all draw scum sometimes, and this time it was you. Here, have a hedgehog to make you feel better.

Tierce · Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:52 am

Feirei would be the Most Enjoyable hammer. 9 alive, majority of 5, 4 currently voting Fate.

Tierce · Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:09 am

Ahahahahahahahaha YES

Oh, how beautifully those Greek ships burn~

VOTE: DeasVail

Tierce · Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:10 am

My smug satisfaction and I are off to bed.

Come and tell me I can't read Fate~

Tierce · Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:37 am

I still have to think on things, Nacho. I was seeing a Fate/Salmonella team halfYesterday, when he claimed that threw a wrench into the system. Placeholder vote, mostly gut over the last few days.

On a different note, with no Traitors in the game (if hito is telling the truth), CES is all but confTown. With you being most likely Town as well and Oversoul as confTown, let's buckle down and break this game wide open.

hito. Sorry* for turning your world upside down. Reads, please.

Tierce · Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:43 am

The fact that he neglected to mention the possibility of Salmonella being a Town Roleblocker? Yeah, I caught that. Need to mull on it once I get down from Vindication high (that avatar change was too soon). Plus sleep.

Tierce · Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:55 am

In post 2590, Bulbazak wrote:
In post 2588, Tierce wrote:The fact that he neglected to mention the possibility of Salmonella being a Town Roleblocker?
I've been calling SD town the entire time. My read hasn't changed.

Then why did you say that Oversoul, a confirmed Town vig, was not blocked?

Tierce · Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:12 am

In post 2594, Bulbazak wrote:
In post 2591, Tierce wrote:
In post 2590, Bulbazak wrote:
In post 2588, Tierce wrote:The fact that he neglected to mention the possibility of Salmonella being a Town Roleblocker?
I've been calling SD town the entire time. My read hasn't changed.
Then why did you say that Oversoul, a confirmed Town vig, was not blocked?
Because the claimed RB said that he blocked Fate 2 nights in a row, which means he
couldn't
have blocked Oversoul.

How about a scum roleblocker?

Tierce · Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:39 am

Why would there NOT be two roleblockers in the game, Bulbazak?

Tierce · Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:40 am

Benmage, stop taunting her. Not going anywhere.

Tierce · Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:45 am

In post 2625, Nachomamma8 wrote:I feel uneasy with Benmage.

Why that reaction to my vote?

Tierce · Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:45 am

In post 2625, Nachomamma8 wrote:I feel uneasy with Benmage.

Why that reaction to my vote?

Tierce · Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:10 am

LLD, I think you're pushing at irrelevant stuff. But you're dodging the question, Bulbazak.

It doesn't matter if Oversoul was or was not roleblocked, or whether there are actually two roleblockers in this setup or not. The question is

why

you

believe that it's utterly impossible for there to be two roleblockers, one Town, one scum. It's not redundant, and two Town roleblockers would not be redundant either.

(As a side note, I've used two scum roleblockers in a Mini. And my reviewers did not chew me out for it. And Town won.)

Tierce · Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:22 am

Bulbazak--short and to the point: two roleblockers could perfectly coexist, and it's not a lack of creativity to do so, since no one says that "roleblocker" is all there is to their role. But fine, seems like you actually believe your PoV, so I'm satisfied.

In post 2639, Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:
In post 2636, Tierce wrote:(As a side note, I've used two scum roleblockers in a Mini. And my reviewers did not chew me out for it. And Town won.)
Hey, hey. I'm pretty sure I used the phrase "a swingy fighting-fire-with-fire monstrosity" in the review QT.

This from the person who supported my "slightly unorthodox" non-Normal Tracker~

Tierce · Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:07 am

...

Come on, Reck. You were swearing up and down that Fate was

Town

and you were perfectly aware that the game has an SK.

Tierce · Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:12 am

In post 873, xRECKONERx wrote:
In post 868, Tierce wrote:Exactly. He was buddying you even before the party started, so you can't go and say that he was trying to get a read on you by antagonizing you--he had already declared you Town and then goes with this ridiculous thing of "oh I was trying to get you riled up to get a read on you BTW YOU'RE TOWN RECK BUDDY". Doesn't make sense from FateTown; why would he need to reinforce that Townread at that point instead of focusing on the other partygoers?
To be fair, I
was
very town from the start of the game. Fate's RECK WE GET IT YOU'RE TOWN outburst was more directed at my frenzied spamposting than my alignment, and it's something I'd expect Fate to do as town if he thought my posting style was town.

And... why would Fate try to get a confirmed townread on me by reading me face-to-face instead of in-thread? Gee, Tierce, I don't know, why would he do that?

In post 972, xRECKONERx wrote:#1) You, as a town power role, shot two strong town players... and with the second shot, you were poised to shoot a strong town player (Fate) or a weak town distraction (Triforce). You shortened the game by an entire phase AND stopped me or Fate from continuing down the right path.

#2) Here, I see you continuing to tunnel on Fate, someone who I am 99.999999999999% confident is town. Not only have I probably played more games with Fate than any other player on this site, but I spend ample time with him in real life and know his quirks and tendencies, AND ON TOP OF ALL THAT, I am currently in an in-game Always On neighborhood with him and three other players, and all four players believe Fate is town.

In post 1138, xRECKONERx wrote:Hey, you're wrong about Fate, I can't even begin to tell you.

I've spoken to him face to face. He's town. He's town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town town

In post 1364, xRECKONERx wrote:I'll answer that: I'm pretty decent at reading Fate in forum games already, but couple in the fact that I get to have
face to face interaction with him
to determine his alignment, and I'm as confident as I've ever been that he's town.

In post 1675, xRECKONERx wrote:Nacho... nowhere to be seen.

@singer: I had several days of f2f interaction with Fate, and I honestly don't believe he can fake how genuine he was being. He's pretty town. Also, how do I make you want to lynch Benmage? What did I do?

Also yeah, Benmage saying "we're missing an SK kill" with two kills is really weird.

Do I have to go on?

The point of this is not to rub his flip on your face, goodness knows I've been wrong far too many times to do that. But you were calling him TOWN, Reck. Saying you didn't think he was

Mafia

is disingenuous.

Tierce · Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:26 am

In post 2651, xRECKONERx wrote:Yeah, I'll admit, I was wrong, there.

The conviction came from the belief that he sincerely wasn't mafia, though. When the idea was presented that Fate could be SK, you'll notice I wasn't trying to defend him anymore, because I realized that could be an actual possibility. I'll be interested to see if he tried to shoot me or not. I got somewhat fleeced, I'll admit, but I feel like my reads came from the right place.

That's fine. Take some comfort on how scared shitless he must have been when he realized he had to go through an Always On mechanic with you.

Two questions:
Do you think his reads were genuine?
What's your read on me?

Tierce · Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:27 am

...and how about the fact that was pure flavor and is not related to anything in-game?

Tierce · Fri Oct 11, 2013 12:29 pm

In post 2715, Bulbazak wrote:
In post 2713, DeasVail wrote: Feirei- A few things: Nacho's townread, Conspicuously ignoring Reck's townread on Fate (mentioned previously in my ISO), Salmonella attacking him (not strong, but makes Feirei-scum less likely in my opinion), Salmonella making 2650 which is not how I think scum would treat a buddy when they know they're going down.
I don't know. I'd think that Feirei would have been an easier option to push, as there were more people who wanted Feirei lynched than Reck. However, SD ignores Feirei and goes straight for Reck.

Not really ignoring Feirei. At that point, going and picking two players to call out and going for the stronger player's wagon isn't really an indication of alignment either way. He wasn't ignoring Feirei. I doubt Feirei and Reck are both scum, but there isn't much else to that "they are probably scum let me vote Reck" post.

So I disagree with both of you and need to read the game. (Again.)

Tierce · Sun Oct 13, 2013 1:11 pm

O hey I think I've found a place for my vote.

VOTE: singersigner

In other news, you appear to be terrible at organizing scum-free parties, Reck. Honestly.

Tierce · Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:58 am

In post 2759, xRECKONERx wrote:
In post 2750, Tierce wrote:O hey I think I've found a place for my vote.

VOTE: singersigner

In other news, you appear to be terrible at organizing scum-free parties, Reck. Honestly.
I had to use my ability pretty immediately or else I couldn't use it at all.

I think hito is non-scum in the party, along with myself and Fate. It's interesting though... if singer AND LLD were both scum, that wouldn't be TOTALLY surprising.

It was a joke. LLD is still Town.

(Fate WAS scum, though, no matter how singer attempts to paint the play of someone whose goal is to survive to 3p as 'Town-looking'. Been there, played that, SKs do not look like Town, they look like bondless scum. /soapbox)

Tierce · Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:01 pm

Nachomamma8 wrote:I liked this once I had a better picture of what was going on. Tierce's scumgame isn't exactly bad, but it is undeveloped, and treating CES (a player who she respects quite a bit) like this seems like it's much closer to Town-Tierce who knows he's pretty much stuck reading Tierce as town as scum as opposed to scum-Tierce trying to get a townread.

That's not what was going on. I wanted CES to find a good Townread (on someone else, not on me) for him to replace back into if necessary.

Tierce · Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:05 pm

Then I'm confused with how you worded it.

Tierce · Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:45 am

In post 2794, Nachomamma8 wrote:which i find especially concerning because she has so many avenues that she can make herself look townie through. i remember singer being able to make herself seem extremely town in face to face as town, and i can't help but think that she'd utilize the mechanics a hell of a lot better than she has so far if town.

This is the one thing that is bothering me right now, Nacho (and if Nacho flips scum by some impossibility of destiny, the party is probably all Town?). They don't have out of thread communication at this point, it was just for Day 1 and Night 1.

Tierce · Thu Oct 17, 2013 7:56 pm

Post later, had a long day. Probably not tomorrow because another long day!

Tierce · Sat Oct 19, 2013 4:26 pm

Still alive. Catching up tomorrow.

Tierce · Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:38 pm

I'm still in no state to properly catch up. Deepest apologies, will happen between today and tomorrow or something.

Frankly, Nacho, I think DV's apathetic foot-shuffling is much more likely to come from scum than Benmage's behavior so far. What bothers me is that you should know that. DV might not be the most contributing, forceful player as Town, but this is reminding me far too much of YOLOville to ignore at this point--especially when the alternative is Benmage.

UNVOTE: singersigner
VOTE: DeasVail

Tierce · Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:13 pm

Still not reading, wheeee.

UNVOTE: DeasVail
VOTE: Feirei

Tierce · Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:40 pm

Tierce didn't miraculously change alignments because she's busy, so!

Tierce · Wed Oct 23, 2013 1:37 am

If I were to be sheeping anyone, it wouldn't be you. That said, Nacho, being "confirmed Town" doesn't make you more correct than me--at best (and it is a very big best, dammit), it makes people more willing to trust you and follow you as a group, but it doesn't make you more

right

, so don't try to use that as an argument because it doesn't fly.

Also, you two be voting a Townread of mine. Did I read the Bulbazak/Feirei walls? Heck no. So point me where he's so obvious scum that you're voting him over Feirei.

Tierce · Wed Oct 23, 2013 1:38 am

In post 3079, Benmage wrote:
In post 3077, DeasVail wrote:
In post 3038, Benmage wrote:
@Deas
, can you bullet why I am scum.
-Absence of townieness

Also, DeasVail, to be blunt, this is stupid.

Tierce · Wed Oct 23, 2013 1:57 am

Least bad wagon of the set.

Tierce · Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:54 am

Here. If I had any brilliant insights I'd be giving them, Nacho.

Tierce · Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:39 pm

Mass claim sounds good.

Tierce · Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:59 am

...just woke up, geez.

VT. hito, you're next.

Tierce · Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:08 pm

No clue. I'm reduced to people I'm Townreading + Deas, I'm reserving tonight to

play Terraria

re-read.

Tierce · Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:17 pm

"Absence of Townieness" is crap. If you're letting Deas off on meta, so should you be doing with Benedick.

Oh oh also that vote on me is silly and you know it.

Tierce · Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:22 pm

Well you should. Go read The Wire.

Tierce · Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:29 pm

Ben claimed VT.

Tierce · Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:03 pm

Urgh, not tonight. I'll be around tomorrow if you want to go through things together, Nacho, otherwise I'll do it myself.

Tierce · Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:21 am

In post 3239, Benmage wrote:Lady Lambdadelta---no claim/cop cleared

...cop cleared? Did I miss something?

Tierce · Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:23 am

In post 3237, DeasVail wrote:Tierce in particular though, because this is exactly what she's done as scum before (in the games I've played with her at least).

Behold as the fox forgets all those games in which my activity/reads lapse because I'm busy/lost/my scumreads are dead. How quickly you forget #YOLOville when it suits *you*.

Tierce · Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:49 am

Where is this cop investigation ability coming from? BBmolla or Zdenek?

And motivation isn't the problem, it's time. I've been swept up in wedding prep. After sleep today I should have more time for this.

Tierce · Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:55 am

In post 3244, Tierce wrote:wedding prep

Also to whoever would like to come to Vegas on a wild whim on the 5th: I promise SO MANY cookies baked by a mad chemist, cake and the inevitable Cards Against Humanity session.

Tierce · Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:12 am

So far, Town, but this is pre-review. Why is Tierce being addressed indirectly? I don't think hito's scum list is scummy; calling singer, CES and you scum at this point is way tougher than inserting Bulbazak there or even some crazy Nacho theory (I almost cried with relief the other night when it hit me that the scum blocker was held up with Fate and did really not block Zdenek).

See you later, then.

Tierce · Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:12 pm

Benmage: in short, I wasn't thinking about how many people we have left.

Giving myself some groundwork. Need to deal with some stuff elsewhere but I'll be back.

Benmage
Cogito Ergo Sum - makes no sense as factional scum; if hito flips Town, is not a Traitor
DeasVail
Bulbazak

Elmo TeH AzN

hitogoroshi
Oversoul

kdowns

- confirmed Town
Lady Lambdadelta - confirmed Town if singer is Town
Matias
Nachomamma8 - confirmed Town if hito flips Town (and if you there is a Tailor in the game I will hate the otter forever so I'm not going to bother)
singersigner
Tierce

If

all the confirmed Town assumptions above are true (and that's a pretty big if that I'm willing to stand on for the moment but not hinge the whole game on), we can cut things down a bit.

Benmage
DeasVail
Bulbazak

Elmo TeH AzN

hitogoroshi
Matias
singersigner
Tierce

Three scum left out of six people. Watch me fail at shooting scum in a barrel.

hito and singer and obviously the most informational lynches at this point. I'd say they are not scum together; they'd be feeding us too much info if so. Of note that the investigators get unreliable results on the SK, so there's no real reason for scum to have a back-up investigator. singer's ability, no matter what a mess she made of her claim, is mod-given; it matches Bulbazak's too well, I don't think scum singer and scum-Bulbazak would both come up with the same pair of claims together, or even use them if zor provided them both with them.

So: singer not scum with Bulbazak, singer not scum with hito. singer would have to be scum with DeasVail and Matias.

Last night I wanted a bullet between the eyes of whomever claimed a Doctor ability and was considering if it made sense to have a scum/Town or Town/scum Doctor/Backup setup (might be able to protect from SK kills and would be a good treat for a scum team that managed to shoot CES; get protection from Fate and from Oversoul). But

CES

claimed it and he doesn't make sense as factional scum. Tinfoil theory is that he's a recruitable traitor and is (or was, given N3...) waiting for hito-scum to shoot him.

I need breakfast (at 6 pm >.>) and Jade work. I'll be back soon.

Tierce · Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:40 pm

The sound you're hearing is the low groan of agony over that possibility as I rock back and forth.

...food. Right.

Tierce · Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:22 pm

In post 3275, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 3269, Tierce wrote:Lady Lambdadelta - confirmed Town if singer is Town
if singer/hito is town, right?

Right, still needs hito for the non-Godfather bit.

I keep thinking that hito is a good utility lynch but damn is that lazy. :/ I think he's Town, flipping him to have a few more absolutely confirmed things (which STILL need singer dead to confirm them) is really sad.

The problem with singer and Bulbazak being both Town (which makes sense!), and if hito hasn't lied, is that there is three scum in Benmage, DeasVail, hito and Matias. And I'm Townreading three of them and you vouch for the other who is reeeeeeally trying to sneak onto me. And I don't want to ask you to give me who you think is scum in that set, because frankly you're as confirmed Town as it gets and you don't have to give satisfactions to anyone + confTown gambits are nice, but I feel horribly lost because I do know my Townread set has to be mostly wrong at this point.

Tierce · Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:25 pm

Hai hito. It's time for you to out why you thought I was Town after N1.

Tierce · Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:59 pm

Nacho...?

Tierce · Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:06 pm

hito must have become a much better scum player when I wasn't looking.

I'm not willing to bet the game entirely on that pile of clears (the only one actually cleared is Oversoul THANKS MAGSOTHOTH), otherwise I'd be counting lynches on my fingers to see if it's possible to make this autowin. There's tinfoil and etc. But we should be able to use it for a start, anyway--doesn't really make sense to lynch there when we have genuine unknowns. The thing is whether we want to firm those clears by flipping the ones who created them, or give singer and hito a bit more time.

Things that were not claimed: Nacho, LLD and hito's role result.

Tierce · Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:11 pm

Y'know my biggest, most cherished piece of tinfoil is hito-Traitor who didn't/doesn't know his team, though it also makes sense for him to be one of four faction scum (automagically knowing that there is a traitor due to setup). The first version is impeccable for scumhunting skillz as scum and looking genuinely alone.

Ugh.

And... yeah, I know. I think Matias has a lot of genuine stuff, especially regarding me. But there's still stuff bothering me--most of his genuineness, I feel, is coming before the SK flip--which might mean he was legitimately scumhunting as scum. That's really unlikely, but let me show you my tinfoil collection while we are at it.

PEdit: Why?

Tierce · Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:13 pm

You're still voting me and you should still be ashamed of that. We could lynch Oversoul instead!

Tierce · Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:24 pm

Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 3288, Tierce wrote:And... yeah, I know. I think Matias has a lot of genuine stuff, especially regarding me. But there's still stuff bothering me--most of his genuineness, I feel, is coming before the SK flip--which might mean he was legitimately scumhunting as scum. That's really unlikely, but let me show you my tinfoil collection while we are at it.
Holy shit impressive to look at that many people and think SK. I sure as hell couldn't pull it off.

It's a sexy, sexy tinfoil collection.

Because if Matias is not scum and the backups are not scum and the clears are not scum and CES is not scum (which he COULD be if hito is scum, after all), the Fox and Benedick and the Chin are scum.

I was going to say that scumteam would make me cry, but at this point I think any of the possible 20 combinations with those 6 people make me cry, and that's not even adding CES or the clears.

Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 3288, Tierce wrote:Y'know my biggest, most cherished piece of tinfoil is hito-Traitor who didn't/doesn't know his team, though it also makes sense for him to be one of four faction scum (automagically knowing that there is a traitor due to setup). The first version is impeccable for scumhunting skillz as scum and looking genuinely alone.
I feel hito is more group-scum. His godfather, Traitor business seemed to me to be more likely wasting time so he could be checking for town power roles.

Possible, though he could be figuring things out for singer's benefit? Didn't they say they claimed in the party? What would you have picked to investigate?

Also it just hit me that Bulbazak really wouldn't defend singer as tightly if he were scum with a backup ability or backup safeclaim like that--why do you want to defend the person who can catch you

that

much, and then go after

Reck

instead of singer? And you're right about his scumlist (which, again, was all strong targets).

That brings me back to one other thing about hito. I purposefully kept taunting him. I know hito doesn't like self-avowed Cassandras. Not one time did he react to me insisting I was right and shoving it in his face. That seemed too meek.

...I am baffled by the playerset alive and I think that's one of the reasons I'm having so much trouble putting pieces together. I will admit, I would not have guessed this NK list given how the game is going regarding clears.

Do you think you're alive because you're defending Deas-scum?

Tierce · Tue Oct 29, 2013 7:29 pm

In post 3297, DeasVail wrote:Tierce, do you not think that you're behaviour in the period before I started suspecting you is very similar to how you have behaved as scum in the past?

No, I think this is a behavior typical of when I start struggling for reads as Town, which becomes more visible when I am clearly busy and don't have the time to follow the game so closely. You were happy enough to not mention my behavior when it should have looked incredibly Town to you, but the moment Nacho started asking for me to be more active you jumped on it without looking at the circumstances or how this specific pattern is a characteristic of long Town games.

Do you want to say that I am scum in a game where I have over 250 posts? Go ahead. This isn't exactly difficult to compare. Even has activity lulls and all,

and you don't even have to read it

--just Ctrl+End to see that guess what, I was inactive for quite a while even when I had phone access. It was worse than this very game.

I'm not a machine and I happen to get busy and distracted regardless of alignment. You were eagerly making an early comparison to things instead of sitting prettily and waiting to see

if

I would deliver content. At best, you undermined yourself by tipping your hand too soon. At worst, you're opportunistic scum riding Nacho's coattails.

Tierce · Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:01 pm

...So I'm thinking that the scum need at least two of Ninja/Godfather/Doctor and/or backups (of Roleblocker, even, because look at the investigation result format) at this point. There's no way a Town Cop, a Town Gunsmith, a Town Tracker and a Town Backup Investigator aren't pitted against that. It's not a particularly elegant setup, but hey, it works and was likely to get a lot of Town lynched via counterclaims (hai mad fox).

So! While the Censor ability came before alignment, hito is not a Town Censor. (It's not Sensor, it's Censor, goddammit.) And I'm willing to bet he's the Godfather and they are all faction scum or won't flip Traitor--that way, no flip but his own would betray him.

VOTE: hitogoroshi

If you are indeed scum, congratulations on your play. I still think you're Town via reads, but this game makes no sense with all the Town power claimed and no Godfather. I know you wouldn't design what this setup looks like to be shaping itself to be if it were up to you, FWIW.

I think Bulbazak-scum would only return that result if his Doctor role was activated, LLD. Only becomes a Gunsmith-Godfather late in the game, etc. But I still think he looks more like Town than scum.

Tierce · Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:04 pm

It's an Oracle, not a Censor. Either way.

PEdit to LLD: Possible, then. It sure counts as a weirder role.

Tierce · Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:08 pm

hito-scum doesn't mesh well with Bulbazak-scum, though, LLD. I'd be more willing to bet on the inane CES-Doctor-Traitor combo than on that.

Tierce · Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:11 pm

I even forgot BB's role on the list above. Geez. No way, no how.

Also, if it is any comfort for you, Fate (lol you're dead), you'd never get to 3p LyLo v. Gunsmith, Tracker, Adjusting Investigator, Backup Investigator, and that lovely scum Roleblocker. I just wanted to shorten your misery by several weeks~

Tierce · Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:16 pm

I'm not complaining!

See my initial take on zor's crazy setups that led me to claim my ability?

Yeah. They can get a bit crazy.

Why? Do you think it's too much protection for a Town stacked on investigation?

Tierce · Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:21 pm

In post 3321, DeasVail wrote:Tierce, You're right that I didn't investigate it further, but I don't think it's something to be called out on
until I'm ready to lynch you for it
. I'm pretty sure I was vocal about a townread on you early in the game and while there's probably no evidence of this, I've been worried about you since Day 4. You mention later that it would have been better that I instead waited for you to produce content, but once Nacho had called you out, withholding my thoughts seemed kind of pointless, and that's why I didn't say anything until after he did. I also don't think there'd be any need for me to ride Nacho's coattails as scum.

Nacho, no I don't think Tierce is scum anymore. I'm not sold on Hito either. I'll have to think about that. I struggle to believe that some of the claimed town roles aren't actually scum roles, but I see the point about lynches from counterclaims.

And yet you didn't vote me.

Tierce · Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:22 pm

Oh, I see, I read that differenly. Carry on, but I still think your explanation is crappy and you're scum.

Tierce · Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:34 pm

It's all too possibIe, at this stage. But it'd still baffle me given his singet defense and the D1 scumlist including two of his strongest partners, Nacho.

Tierce · Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:40 pm

In post 1395, Bulbazak wrote:I can't believe everybody is freaking out about my reads and reasonings for my reads, especially since I stated quite explicitly that I was catching up and would post my reads along with a vote before I went to bed tonight. It's literally the last sentence in that post that everyone is obsessing over.

Bulbazak's Catchup Reads

Town

Tierce
: There have been some allegations that I'm calling her town due to her claim, which is not true at all. I got a townread on her early in my readthrough. Her posting when she was sick read as genuine frustration. Outside of that, I'm seeing a lot of logical thought and actual scumhunting. As for her claim, it makes sense to me why she would choose to claim when she did and for those reasons, since I claimed in a recent game for similar reasons of wanting to break the game. Everything she's said makes sense, and I really can't see anything she's done coming from a scum motivation. This includes the way she's moved her votes, especially since WE'RE CLOSE TO DEADLINE! Yeah, I can't see her being scum at all.

SalmonellaDreams
: Salmon is town, because Peta was town. Peta read similarly to another game I played with him, only way more town. His thought processes have mirrored mine for the most part, especially in regards to Magua. Easily one of my strongest townreads.

Cogito Ergo Sum
: I was null on this slot until after the claim. At that point, he would tend to echo my thoughts on certain situations, and I've just seen him tackling the game from a town perspective. He's been asking the right questions and has been precise with his statements. He's not trying to pretend to be town in his posts, he's just being town naturally.

Matias
: He's earnest in his scumhunting, and there's genuine thought behind his posts. He's definitely not faking anything. My only concern is that he doesn't always pay the closest attention, and he's easy to manipulate. Not the strongest townie in the bunch, but still incredibly town.

Johog
: He came across as incredibly town during the Ben/Reck argument, and I've never lost that feeling during the rest of his posts. I thought his stance on my predecessor was not unusual or as scummy as Hito made it out to be, and his actions overall have made sense.

Lady Lambdadelta
: She may not post a lot, but when she does, it's with purpose. She's genuinely scumhunting and asking questions. I may not always agree with her, but I don't doubt her sincerity.

BBMolla
: He may not be the strongest player in the game, but he's genuine in his posting. I have no problem reading him as scum in this game.

Null/Town

DeasVail
: His posts near the beginning of the game struck me as very townie. Mostly, though, he appeals to me from an intellectual standpoint, rather than an instinctual one. He's most likely town, but I want to take a little bit more time to work on this read.

Nachomamma8
: Same as Deas. He should probably be in the town pile, but I want to be absolutely certain on this read first.

Singersigner
: I liked her early posts, but recently she's slacked off a bit and has been going after a policy lynch. I'd like to see more from her.
Best Town
keeps her in the null/town pile.

Feirei
: Much like everyone else, I didn't like his wall post, as it provided no content whatsoever. However, I think that his reasons for posting it came off as very genuine, and, as much as I hated what he did, I can't condemn him due to that genuineness of intention. He's probably town, although I'd like to see more from him first.

Null

Benmage
: He started out as a strong townread, but as the game progressed, his idiotic comments made my read of him diminish, as I had a hard time believing that town could be that stupid. He's probably still town, but I'm in no rush to put him in my town pile.

Oversoul
: Kdowns didn't really contribute much, and in many ways, Oversoul hasn't as well, at least nothing that would suggest alignment. To be honest, I'd rather see a flip and then sort him after the fact.

Magua
: I've actually been going back and forth on Magua during my entire readthrough. One moment I'll have a scumread on him, then the next, he'll have posted several things so town that I start to doubt it. I didn't like how quick the turn was on the Tierce claim = Tierce-scum argument. I also didn't like his focus on wanting a PL, especially that early in the day. It seems safe.

Null/Scum

xRECKONERx
: This one is actually leaning more null than scum. The early scumread was because of his interaction early game with Fate, but that became a non-issue after it was revealed that the entire thing was staged. However, I still didn't like his back and forth with Benmage, as that seemed unnecessarily antagonistic. I also have reservations about his use of his award ability. What really kills me, though, is that he has fallen silent as we've gotten later in the day, only speaking up occasionally to say that Fate is town. Who are his scumreads? Why isn't he pushing them? I would expect town Reck to be more proactive, and the fact that he's not makes me very uncomfortable. I'm listening to my gut by putting him in this category, and I'll just see how this read progresses the further we get in the game.

Zdenek
: I didn't have the greatest read on his predecessor, and admittedly, Zdenek is not giving me much to work with already. The only thing that's set off red flags is the way he's done his reads. It looked different than what I've seen from Zdenek before, so I went back to a Zdenek-town replacement model: Void Mountain of the Nightless Temple. Guess what? He didn't do those massive catch up walls in those games. And after he finishes with this, his next vote is...a lurker? Now I know Zdenek can be hard headed and all, but a lurker wagon? Seriously?! I'd expect him to be pushing a scumread and being extremely stubborn about it. Instead, he's going for the safe lynch. This does not feel like the town Zdenek I've played with. Given the lack of connections between him and my other scumreads, he's probably the SK (Having the
Best Third Party
award ability probably increases those odds.).

Scum

Hitogoroshi
: This is mostly a gut read from the beginning of the game, but I don't like how he's been pushing his reads. The Johog case, especially, I find appalling. He really stretches to make those points and to present null behavior as scummy. I repeat: There's nothing scummy in the Johog case! Hito takes statements and actions that mean absolutely nothing, and that are actually understandable in context and progression, and twists them into an incredibly scummy case meant to end in a mislynch. Some people may point at his discussion with Tierce about Tierce's ability as evidence of Hito being scum. However, that was a discussion on mechanics, which could easily be genuine as either alignment. Hito is not pushing scum. He's trying to lynch someone who felt that an inactive player may need to be pressured later, and trying to pass said lynch off as a scum lynch.

Fate
: Yes, I know Fate can be belligerent as town too, but I'm seeing his actions here as a totally different animal. Normally, he just shouts a lot that said person is scum. Here, he's actually twisting actions to push Tierce as scum. That's more than his typical hot air. That's an actual conscious decision to ignore what is actually being said and to misrepresent everything as scummy. Tierce is 100% right on this one.

Kanyeknowsbest
: In a word, he's opportunistic. Kanye as scum first came to my attention after Tierce outed her role. Read his reaction again, he was actually nervous. Then, when Ben went full on crazy with his Tierce-scum theory, Kanye immediately jumped on that and used it to attack Tierce. Also pay attention to the type of questions Kanye asks. He's constantly wanting people to convince him about their reads. Essentially, he wants to play follow the leader and use other people's reads as a shield. As a result, he'll sometimes be asking the same questions multiple times in an attempt to try to get someone to "convince" him that another person is scum. That way, he doesn't have to develop reads himself. Also, on a lesser note, his award role increases the chance that he's scum.

All that being said...

Vote Magua

I actually think this lynch will give us the most information.

Here. On the other hand, he ends this by voting a nullread for "information".

Tierce · Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:23 am

In post 3332, hitogoroshi wrote:(and it IS sensor, not censor - it would be censor if I could redact roles I didn't like or something?)

It's Censor, actually, and the wiki on that is silly. You don't Sense roles, you make a Census of them--and in Rome, that was one of the Censor's tasks. /pedantry

Either way, your role appears closer to a modified Oracle than anything else.

If I'm going by your posts alone, then yes, I think you're Town--there's no contradiction there, you do look Town and this pains me. But the odds of there not being a Godfather in this setup are very low. It's the feeling of lynching a Townread when there is a claimed guilty on them.

What did you check last Night?

Tierce · Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:25 am

Godfather-like Gunsmith innocents are Doctors and other stranger things. This has been known ever since BB flipped.

Tierce · Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:16 am

In post 3342, singersigner wrote:and roles come before alignment

Awards do, not roles.

Tierce · Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:18 pm

hito--said Halloween makes it cake day for me and I'm about to enter a week long V/LA. I'll get back to you soon.

One thing I'm puzzled about, though--scum have Daytalk. Why wouldn't Bulbazak spring the trap for singer in their QT?

UNVOTE: hitogoroshi

Tierce · Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:23 pm

In post 3356, hitogoroshi wrote:A setup where town has a lot of investigation power, and every death gives it to scum, makes more sense to me.

Why would scum need an investigation power that does not get real innocents and does not catch the SK? The only thing that comes to mind is the resulting "I'm a gunsmith/cop and that's why you're seeing a gun on me" thing.

Tierce · Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:23 pm

...and tracking the SK to a kill, too. Argh.

Nacho, halp.

Tierce · Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:26 pm

Oooooh.

hito's theory makes sense with Reck's award role (at least given Reck's Town flip). I like to think that he could only get Tracker with Town and there'd be something else for him as scum. Because if he picks a PR as Town, the scum backup gets a Tracker ability as well. If he were scum, perhaps he'd get a Doctor-like ability that Town Bulbazak would backup.

This is so tempting and so much more elegant.

Tierce · Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:04 pm

V/LA until November 6.

Tierce · Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:20 am

If the Mafia Gunsmith has a chance to claim Gunsmith, they are essentially immune to Gunsmithing checks themselves since the Gunsmith has a gun.

That said, singer is more likely scum than LLD and I don't know how she's even entertaining the notion that LLD might be scum at this point. Discussing it the way she is seems like she's willing to be convinced of it.

Tierce · Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:07 pm

Nacho. What do you think of hito's setup spec? I think the backup investigator being scum makes a lot more sense than being Town.

Tierce · Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:02 pm

Hey.

Bulbazak.

We've seen multiples of the same role or roles that do the same thing one way or another, so will you stop acting like you know more about what zor does in his setups than anyone else? Most mods will provide fakeclaims on request if nothing else. And Nacho and hito have plenty of experience under zor, by reading, reviewing or playing.

Thank you kindly.

Tierce · Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:00 pm

Your face is repetitive.

I've said the wet fox is probably scum.

Tierce · Sun Nov 03, 2013 2:52 pm

VOTE: DeasVail

Tierce · Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:37 am

DeasVail, what is the scumteam?

Tierce · Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:31 am

Benmage, I frankly wish I had more time, but my brain is swamped. I'll get back to this in force after the 6th.

And I'd much rather not lynch you Today and lynch Deas instead!

Tierce · Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:19 am

Nacho said he has a govern on me, yes, but that doesn't make me bulletproof (and I think he can change it?).

Nacho, I'll get back to this after tomorrow.

Tierce · Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:20 am

singer, I dare say that in this game I am hardly the scum's biggest worry. Fate's, maybe, but we won't know who he was shooting until the game's over. Moot point, etc.

Tierce · Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:24 am

So I got carried away elsewhere and Jade stuff had priority. I'll be back on track tomorrow. (Today? Timezones and sleep schedules and etc. The 8th, anyway.)

Tierce · Sat Nov 09, 2013 12:50 pm

Was going to vote singer. Probably will do so Tomorrow?

singer, I still don't make sense as BBmolla's killer. It was true D2, it is true Today.

Bulbazak's quickhammer reaction is pretty bland, but I'm not awake enough to judge it yet.

Tierce · Sat Nov 09, 2013 12:52 pm

Nacho, you're not the only one creeped out, but sadly it's a Benedick thing. ...I was going to say it didn't bother you in #YOLOville, because that's how awake I am.

Tierce · Sat Nov 09, 2013 12:55 pm

I like hito's theory, and frankly I just donkt see how it makes any sense for us to have a truckload of investigation roles AND a Town backup for them. Bulbazak's role makes more sense as Town of the two. singer's is ridiculous redundancy.

Tierce · Sat Nov 09, 2013 1:01 pm

Her response to Bulbazak just means they're not scum together, I think. I don't think it was so much the whole stabbing the person who is defending her because she's reading them as scum, more like "I don't know what your role is and I can use this as genuine ignorance". From memory, feels like her "genuine" push as scum on SKme in New Age Mafia II.

Tierce · Sat Nov 09, 2013 1:04 pm

He didn't policy lynch you either.

(I wanted to!)

Tierce · Sat Nov 09, 2013 1:05 pm

Uhm, didn't Reck die immediately after?

Tierce · Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:43 am

Tierce · Tue Nov 12, 2013 5:08 am

*Benedick

Tierce · Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:25 pm

In post 3626, Benmage wrote:
@Tierce
do you want to stop trolling the thread, its D6. If you're scum you should be ashamed with what you've done this game. Coaster-rific. I hope you as a person have more integrity than that, and therefore are town. Which if it is the case,
just sheep me.
YES zomg how can I Benmage after mislynching hito be asking you to sheep me. I am. Do it if you're town.

I'm not criticizing you for asking for sheep, so easy there. That said, while I know that is usually your view on game ethics, I have no issue with coasting as scum (and in fact have issues

not

coasting because I lose interest), so don't make assumptions based on that.

Slowly getting back into things. Would like to see singer and Deas and ??? dead, but wishes and horses and mulling on this because nope not shooting from the hip on D6 and I hate you for dying and leaving me here, Nacho.

Tierce · Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:53 pm

In post 3637, Benmage wrote:
In post 3636, Tierce wrote:I have no issue with coasting as scum (and in fact have issues not coasting because I lose interest)
How disappointing.

Have I mentioned my scumgame sucks? Repeatedly. That's hardly a secret~

In all seriousness, handling reviews and doing a couple of other things, then I'll try to gear up for this. It is really really hard to resist the temptation to just

vote people

.

My big solid concern is that I don't think Bulbazak and singer are scum together and you jerks lynched hito and Nacho died and and and someone hold my hand.

Tierce · Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:04 pm

Easy, Benmage. It's the first day of D6, it's no mystery that my activity died out throughout the site, I have things to do and

playing

cannot be a priority at the moment. I'd like to do more than just to sheep you. I do want to vote DV, but it's 9 alive with 3 scum so you'll excuse me if I'm not in a rush to do your bidding.

Who do you think are DV's buddies?

Wait, what Faraday balance?

Tierce · Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:38 pm

Why do you think redundancy in protective roles doesn't exist as Town and/or is less likely to exist than redundancy in investigation?

Tierce · Tue Nov 12, 2013 5:19 pm

In post 3652, Bulbazak wrote:
In post 3651, singersigner wrote: I don't really want to claim until everyone checks in.
Fair enough. I'll keep my vote where it is for now, because of reasons...

In post 3628, Benmage wrote:^BOOOM
I could only possibly be a scum doctor
, as hito cleared GF/Traitor.

So get fucked

That's ridiculous. I could be a scum Doctor as well; I was also cleared via Gunsmith. Get a better reason or stop using it as an excuse, everyone knows who LLD investigated.

Tierce · Tue Nov 12, 2013 5:50 pm

In post 3658, Bulbazak wrote:Tierce, my point was that Ben was essentially gloating after being "confirmed". He stared down the town and said "You'll never catch me now.". Seriously, if you were town, why even mention that possibility? That's essentially bragging.

I've been known to do that. And Nacho did much the same.

Ben--when you're putting Bulbazak in your scum list but not singer, you're saying that you think it's more likely for there to be redundancy/failsafes in investigation than in protection.

Tierce · Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:13 pm

Last Night's kill choice was very much not weird. If you're still expecting to die before LyLo in this game, think again, Oversoul. You may be confirmed Town but you aren't doing crap. Nacho? He was confirmed Town several times over and was doing his damnedest at the end. Can you coordinate a Town to act together? No. Can Nacho? yes. He was an obvious kill choice.

None of the PRs are confirmed Town and killing them only gives Town more information--like we got from hito's flip.

Also you're not in a place where you can accuse CES of playing badly.

Tierce · Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:28 pm

It's like you're going out of your way to be as scummy as possible, Deas.

Tierce · Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:03 pm

It doesn't work like that.

Tierce · Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:06 pm

He's not going to claim his protections. If he had anything useful to claim beyond protecting Nacho and Oversoul, we'd know. But Oversoul is absolutely confirmed Town, so no, you're not dragging more stuff out of there.

singer, time for you to claim.

Tierce · Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:20 pm

To be a bit more explicit: there is nothing in information that Oversoul and CES might have that is USEFUL. We don't benefit from total disclosure, because there is no benefit from that information--and total disclosure actively hurts the Town if scum haven't rolecopped either of them. So.

Tierce · Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:28 pm

I have to fight down a lot of paranoia before I give you a good answer there.

Basically--I can't think CES is scum. hito was right about the whole "giving the scumteam away if lynched" thing--and he can't be a traitor, so he can't be factional scum.
Oversoul is Town. Not accepting alternatives there, no matter how horrible his participation is.
Beyond that, things get dicey, because I want to call you and Bulbazak and Benmage and Matias Town--but that makes it a total of six Townreads + me with three living scum, so one of them (at least) HAS to be wrong.

I want to say that lynching DeasVail, singer, Bulbazak and Matias is the way to go, in that order, but the last two options are really, really iffy.

Tierce · Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:47 pm

The fact that I have four Townreads and at least one of them is wrong and I really don't want it to be you.

Tierce · Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:52 am

In post 3715, Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:Not knowing whom I protected N3 is a scum tell for the record.

Fairly sure it isn't because they know who they failed to kill.

Tierce · Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:24 am

I don't follow.''I mean, I know you already claimed that one, but I don't follow your logic. Elaborate?

Tierce · Sun Nov 17, 2013 1:08 pm

In post 3766, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:
In post 3765, Bulbazak wrote:Regardless of your alignment, you have to claim a guilty on Matias. If you're town, then the guilty is genuine, and Matias is scum. If you're scum, the guilty is faked, and Matias is the last mislynch you need to win. It's WIFOM at this point. I'd prefer to stick with my reads, and right now, that's a scum team of {Singer, Ben, LLD/Matias}. I don't want to deal with the less sure reads at this point, hence why I'd prefer a Singer lynch.
Why are you pushing a dichotomy between myself and Matias?

...

It's pretty obvious that your result on Matias makes Today a 1v1 between the two of you and you should know this.

You of all people, LLD? Not recognizing a 1v1, when at least one of you HAS to be scum? Without even bringing up the possibility of a scum gun-tailor or something of the sort?

That said, I understand Bulbazak's logic of wanting to lynch outisde the pair, and frankly I need to read LLD/singer together to see if they make any sense. I don't think they do, especially with singer trying to slow play the result Yesterday, but it doesn't hurt to check.

Benmage--want to talk about it?

Tierce · Sun Nov 17, 2013 1:21 pm

But he had already explained it in the very post you quoted. Bussing is pretty suboptimal at this point.

Tierce · Sun Nov 17, 2013 1:34 pm

1) People you should already be studying if you're Town and
2) Things I will care about once I'm actually awake.

Tierce · Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:01 pm

singer.

singer, not Bulbazak.

I want an exact description of how your role is supposed to work.

Tierce · Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:31 pm

In post 3777, Benmage wrote:
In post 3769, Tierce wrote:Benmage--want to talk about it?
You're suffering from inner turmoil as a result of your disrespectful play. Therefore you practically claimed scum to be by saying you 'lurk as scum''.

You are confirmed scum.

I'm fine with the 1v1. Tierce next. Most likely Bulb afterward. It'll be crazy if win.

This makes more sense with how he voted out the gate. A shame, he's played a really strong game, even if he did fall off in these later days. (You guys should've left Nacho, killed CES that night, and killed LLD last night...ahswell)

Vote Matias

I'm not suffering from any sort of inner turmoil. I'm simply admitting that I do lurk as scum, but I admit that regardless of my alignment.

And from someone who was asking people not to vote...
...what the hell are doing voting before everyone checks in?

Tierce · Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:33 pm

In post 3776, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:Tierce, how likely is it that there exists another doctor role outside of CES and Bulb that belongs to the scum?

If singer is not lying about her ability, the only person who could have that role is Benmage. (And technically me, but I know I'm not scum.) And technically you and this is eating me inside, etc. etc.

But at this point I'm interested in getting singer's answer. Which I will probably need to wait a day or two for because who the fuck knows when she feels like posting.

Tierce · Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:41 pm

In post 3778, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:Plus, Oversoul should have a vigshot tonight for Matias?

You're killing me here, LLD.

Did Reck claim Tracker in the party? I seem to recall one of you saying so.

Tierce · Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:53 pm

I think Reck tracked Nacho and hito and can't really tell the rest. And I can tell with certainty, from anyone's PoV, that he did not track me to a kill even as he was sheeping Fate--because soon enough he was listing me as Town and if he had tracked me to a kill Reck would not have stopped.

So THAT was useful. :hitoshrug:

...LLD's

track

?

Tierce · Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:57 pm

I hate all of you.

Tierce · Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:00 pm

I mean, I obviously don't, but...

...yeah, I hate Nacho. You're an asshole who died and left me here and

eek

.

Tierce · Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:03 pm

In post 1599, Benmage wrote:Food for thought... we're missing an SK shot no?

I want to lynch you so badly for this one, Ben.

Tierce · Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:09 pm

In post 3795, Benmage wrote:
In post 3793, Tierce wrote:
In post 1599, Benmage wrote:Food for thought... we're missing an SK shot no?
I want to lynch you so badly for this one, Ben.
Why?

Because the guys who roleblocked Fate are scum, and they have Daytalk, and they chose to roleblock him again the following Night which meant that they suspected they got it right, and that post was made after Magua claimed the kill but before he claimed the flavor, so how did you even know that the missing one was the SK shot?

Tierce · Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:16 pm

In post 3799, Benmage wrote:Bulb or Singer... I'm leaning Bulb, but we'll see... doesn't singer become a gunsmith tonight or something for mislynching.

...

If we mislynch, the game is over.

Between that and LLD claiming that we can vig the confirmed scum to her when we may not have more vig shots and

the game is over if we mislynch

, it seems like you're doing these things to see how much scummy crap you can get with Today. And me with a Townread on both of you.

Never mind about Nacho, I'll go back to hating those alive.

Tierce · Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:18 pm

In post 3800, Benmage wrote:
In post 3798, Tierce wrote:
In post 3795, Benmage wrote:
In post 3793, Tierce wrote:
In post 1599, Benmage wrote:Food for thought... we're missing an SK shot no?
I want to lynch you so badly for this one, Ben.
Why?
Because the guys who roleblocked Fate are scum, and they have Daytalk, and they chose to roleblock him again the following Night which meant that they suspected they got it right, and that post was made after Magua claimed the kill but before he claimed the flavor, so how did you even know that the missing one was the SK shot?
Mafia is typically shot....
You think I thought Magua was the SK, claiming killing cred D2

I said, "no" with a "?" to illustrate plausible shenanigans....

How are u remembering this? So long ago?/Bringing it up now??? Saving ammo in the scumqt for final days? Got it.

Sure, saving it from the scum QT! Or perhaps I just went through the game to see Reck's tracks and hit upon some things that at the time didn't seem relevant. Good job on pointless mudslinging, though!

Tierce · Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:18 pm

Oh this should be good.

Tierce · Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:19 pm

I am NOT voting Benmage at this point. And before anyone pulls the majorly idiotic move and calls me scum for not countervoting, I was Town in Maf.Xenologue and didn't vote the blundering idiot who voted my slot in MyLo, even though I thought he was scum.

So.

Tierce · Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:28 pm

Oh, believe me that I am beyond pissed off if you are Town. But I am past throwing a tantrum. I have better things to do with my life than expect you to be a good player, so.

On the other hand, I get the perfectly legitimate reason for never playing with you again if you're Town, because screw you for quickvoting in LyLo if you're Town~

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p5277640

Tierce · Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:29 pm

In post 3809, Bulbazak wrote:
In post 3799, Benmage wrote:doesn't singer become a gunsmith tonight or something for mislynching.
She's out of shots.

In post 3805, Tierce wrote:I am NOT voting Benmage at this point.
Why not?

Because if he's scum and I am not quickhammered, it's evidence enough that he's scum and we can slowplay this. If he's Town, the game is already lost, so I can't be arsed to give scum a choice on whom to lynch. This'll be on him, even if I absolutely hate being mislynched.

Tierce · Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:30 pm

In post 3811, Benmage wrote:Where did Tierce run and hide to?

Scumqt? Sees ship sinking?

You still got a 3rd partner... comeback and play.

Fascinating on how you still post this after you have certainly seen me post in preview-edits.

Tierce · Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:34 pm

In post 3814, Benmage wrote:
In post 3810, Tierce wrote:Oh, believe me that I am beyond pissed off if you are Town. But I am past throwing a tantrum. I have better things to do with my life than expect you to be a good player, so.

On the other hand, I get the perfectly legitimate reason for never playing with you again if you're Town, because screw you for quickvoting in LyLo if you're Town~

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p5277640
HAHAHAHAHH blacklist me for quickvoting lylo.

YOU"VE PLAYED YOUR SCUM META TO A T.

Go fuckurself and cry to someone else, you whiney bitch.

WAHHHH blacklisting for quick voting.

YOUVE DONE SHIT ALL GAME.

FUCK U

(not u the person, you the player in the game BECAUSE IT FCUKING BLOWS)

die bitch

Mhmm. Sure I have. Who caught Fate? With actual stuff, not with scum's roleblocks?

Who didn't quickhammer hito?

Who didn't vote Johhog?

Come talk to me about "doing nothing" in the game, because you've been toxic. My reads have been fine and your high horse is real cute.

Tierce · Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:35 pm

I'm done talking with Benmage. So!

Scum, if Benmage is Town, do us all a favor and end the game already so I don't need to play with someone who calls me "bitch" anymore. Between Benmages and Oversouls, this game's a real joy.

Tierce · Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:44 pm

In post 3818, Benmage wrote:You recognize you played your scum Meta to a T this game.

Sure I have! How and where?

Right, I don't think you've ever played with scum Tierce. So you're bullshitting. How much attention did you pay to people who actually know my meta? Like Nacho? Like, supposedly, LLD? That's right, none.

And yes, it is evident in the postgame of Xenologue that I'm not playing with Saki again. The difference is that I thought

you

were smart enough to not do that as Town. If you're scum, it's all well and good. If you're Town, no, I am not interested in playing with you anymore because this kind of thing obviously throws games away.

343 posts is lurking. The only person who has more posts than I is YOURSELF. WTF?

Tierce · Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:45 pm

Yeah, fuck off. I'm done. Vote me if you want, I have better ways to spend my night than deal with your bullshit.

Tierce · Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:49 pm

I still want to know in what world would the person who was calling out BBmolla as useless on D1 would have shot him that Night.
That makes a lot of sense, right?

But no, I've supposedly played to some sort of "scum meta" that Benmage knows nothing about.

Tierce · Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:57 pm

Well that's

some

sense, at least.

Tierce · Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:07 pm

Look, Benmage, as long as you are willing to see reason, I'm fine with playing with you. But no, I am not interested in playing with someone who quickvotes in LyLo and sticks with it through hell and high water without bothering to even reconsider his position. You did, so I am okay with that, even if you end up voting me later. And if you're scum, no harm done either way.

You can't quite expect me to be happy with being voted almost out of the gate with poor and incorrect reasoning, though.

If you don't want to play with me again, that's fine. It's your decision.

And I have NOT been lurking. Disconnected, yes, at points, but that has been sitewide. I was really busy at the start of this month and took a while to get back in gear.

Tierce · Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:12 pm

It's okay. I'm sorry too. I really really don't like being mislynched and it shows. >.>

Tierce · Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:18 pm

In post 3847, Benmage wrote:OHHH THIS IS A GEM!!!

Bulb lynches me over the confirmed Matais....

WHere BULB gets to become a DOCTOR!!

WHERE LLD GETS TO LIVE!!

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

LLD!! You get to live to tomorrow!!!!! you can gun singer. We get to win!

I'm confused. Explain this?

Tierce · Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:23 pm

Obvious NK alternative is the confTown Oversoul, though. Useless as he has been.

IF LLD is Town, which she might not be.

Tierce · Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:28 pm

Benmage, please unvote. The only people who should be voting at this point, if any, are LLD and Matias. You're opening the door to a quickhammer.

Tierce · Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:30 pm

Funnily enough, Bulbazak, I'm Town and don't know that!

And no, I am not voting with you at this point. This is still quickvoting and is still stupid.

Tierce · Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:36 pm

I hate all of you.

Tierce · Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:36 pm

Like... seriously, I had a post ASKING PEOPLE TO UNVOTE.

Tierce · Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:38 pm

In post 3883, Benmage wrote:Tierce... no way was LLD losing this game.

But you still shouldn't have been voting this early.

...My only consolation is that I didn't get lynched, pathetic as that is.

Tierce · Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:40 pm

Can we not have drama now? Please?

This is a game with a lot of people I care about. It was a good game, scum played well, leave it at that.

Tierce · Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:50 pm

Benmage, singer, please stop. You're right, Benmage--she's not a leader, but she doesn't need to be. We've seen Towns and scumteams made of leaders only and they are unbearable.

It was a good and close game, scum played better than Town, they won, and we all rolled Fate. Let's enjoy that~

I had a good time. Thanks for the game, zor!

Tierce · Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:54 pm

In post 3904, Benmage wrote:ZOR 5 SCUM!!!! Da faq?

We were told in advance. This is a Scummies invitational, after all--we're expected to put on a good show, and the scum were not immune to investigations or to crosskills.

Tierce · Sun Nov 17, 2013 6:16 pm

Can I mention again how hilarious (and skillful!) Magua's flavor trick was?

Tierce · Mon Nov 18, 2013 4:46 am

Thanks again for the game, zor.

Tierce · Mon Nov 18, 2013 5:17 am

In post 3936, Magua wrote:
In post 1589, zoraster wrote:
kanyeknowsbest [Best Scum Team] the Mafia Goon had his children put under the knife, so that he knew that his seed was wiped out forever, before Magua ate his heart.
I regret nothing!

You shouldn't, that was magnificent.

Tierce · Mon Nov 18, 2013 4:15 pm

It is already in the scum role PMs, Benmage.

Tierce · Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:24 am

In post 3978, xRECKONERx wrote:
In post 3974, zoraster wrote:Not going to feel bad about the lack of reveal on compulsive. If you were concerned about it, you could have played it as compulsive. You decided to take a risk by not shooting, which was understandable. But that was a calculated risk on your behalf.

Scum, btw had a gunsmith guilty on Fate.
The issue is that people are under the assumption SKs ARE compulsive. Setups are usually balanced with a SK to assume the SK is killing every night... so if the SK takes a calculated risk by no killing, which in and of itself lowers their chances of winning, they shouldn't be further punished by having everyone think "Oh there's not two kills so the SK must be roleblocked"

just my .02

Speak for yourself. Having been a non-killing SK myself, I do not assume they must be compulsive. Yes, I did think Fate had been roleblocked. No, the no-kills did not particularly surprise me. No-killing is, as you said, a calculated risk, and in this case a faction with a guilty on him was able to put it to use through a gambit because Fate did not read a flip correctly. It's not supposed to be easy, he wasn't "further punished", he was hit with a guilty gambit he could have planned for.

Tierce · Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:48 pm

In post 3981, xRECKONERx wrote:Yes, Tierce. Usually when I say "just my .02", I am, in fact, speaking for
myself
.

That's fine, but you also included this:

xRECKONERx wrote:The issue is that people are under the assumption SKs ARE compulsive.

which is a generalization. I was correcting your generalized assumption--mine was that Fate, in particular, would be likely to shoot, but I know some people don't, and I knew not to expect (at least a public) Compulsive (reveal) from zoraster. We already knew a lot about the Serial Killer role and learned more from flips, so I don't see how we should expect to know

all

the details from that role when we don't know all the details from other factions either. It only hurt Fate because he chose not to play with every tool he had accessible, namely reading the BBmolla flip with attention.

By the by, I don't think you should force Serial Killers to be Compulsive, zor. No killing is a legitimate choice, and if the Serial Killer knows they have a protected Tracker on them, why should they be forced to take a game-losing action?

I've been toying with the idea of making a Serial Killer that has to kill at least every other Night; essentially, the reverse of the Non-Consecutive effect.