Hello Everyone.
First!
VOTE: zMuffinMan
In post 187, Oversoul wrote:Beetlejuice tell is that someone says your name and then you post in the thread. Basically, you're only truly active in the game when someone calls you out on it.
This game has stalled.
VOTE: Aronis
Since this game probably has a lot of power roles, i don't think that it would help much, if any, in validating those in that room, but without that factor, it might be more beneficial, but only slightly.In post 255, Prof Fridays wrote:Also, just throwing this out there: Regarding the Geography event, (barring other factors), ideally, would it be more beneficial to lynch someone in Rooms 2-6? I feel like having a smaller room population would be ideal for validating those in that room (assuming such validation is possible). Does that make sense? Perhaps I'm not considering some things.
I don't agree with you.
I really like Agar. However, he seems to be really good at manipulating people and playing scum. So minor town read on him for nowIn post 412, AGar wrote:Cuz meta is bad, mmkay.In post 395, zMuffinMan wrote:why would i pretend i know nothing about a player when i do? if you're asking me to discard everything i know about a player and make decisions about whether or not to lynch them on the basis of their play in an individual game, i'd probably be lynching players like PV and Aronis D1 of every game i play.papa zito wrote:metaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Let's pretend that game didn't happen, and you looked solely at his play this game on its own merits. In particular, his last two votes. What do you think of his alignment now?
Also, you act like that would be a bad thing.
In post 404, farside22 wrote:why is the bold scummy? I have seen more players since I returned to mafia use the bold then not.In post 322, AGar wrote:I'm generally trying to discern whether TiP is an idiot or scum at this point. He's done some things that ping me as scummy as shit, but some that also ping me as just really dumb.In post 273, talah wrote:Yeah well sorry, I've been accused of meta arguments elsewhere and I think I have a very clear-cut differentiation between META which is looking for overall patterns in a person's town and scum play over a large number of games, and my own tendency to think I have better odds of reading a person if I've played with them before. So I'd tend to take a more wait-and-see approach with folks I have played with.In post 265, AGar wrote:We're not going to see eye to eye here so I'm just going to move forward with the game. We have an inherent disagreement on what constitutes meta.
..ANYway, since meta apparently irritates you, I wonder if you care to comment on TiP's use of SELF-META applying it to me to produce a scumread which he's apparently 100% confident of. Surely that's something you should have been all over given your opinion on meta?I'd lean towards scum for both trying to apply his meta to someone elseand a comment he recently made suggesting someone should read his posts because he just beat them as scum. That's the kind of cockiness that comes about when you're scum again and you think you can just cruise.
Because you are not me and I am not you, for a loose example. The way I play my scumgame is not going to be the way you play your scumgame is not going to be the way that Zito plays his scumgame. Same goes for town games. Meta is generally terrible because self-awareness shits all over it as a concept. Trying to apply your own meta to someone else is worse because of a multitude of reasons, but most notably selective bias. Note how TIP gave one game where he was a cult leader (which is not scum and has a different MO when they play unless you strip down their goals to strictly "survive", but that is foolish) and said "Well Talah is doing this and I was an anti-town player when I did this so Talah must be mafia!" That is patently false because Talah may not play the same way TIP plays, and unless TIP has played multiple games with Talah to have an strong basis for pointing to that particular comparison (whether it's that this is a departure from Talah's general method of approaching the game or if this particular game matches a pattern of behavior for Talah's scumgame), it holds no water.
If I went by TIP's line of thinking, I would only ever lynch people who were strongly pushing for dead scum because that's how I play scum - I bus the ever living fuck out of my partners into oblivion and rely on my ability to create a strong day presence after the fact to ride into LYLO situations where I either control the outcome of the lynch because I've got two players suspicious of each other, OR I feel confident enough in whoever I brought to LYLO with me that I believe I can win that situation roughly 90% of the time.
You see how that falls apart pretty quickly? I'd fail miserably if I even tried to apply that meta once to another player. Not to mention, I'm aware of that exact fact and have intentionally deviated from it as scum.
“Muffinman, please confirm that I am voting for the right person. I don’t want to seem like the scum I am if I vote for the wrong person”In post 474, ActionDan wrote:Muffinman you are pretty cool. I hope I can trust you. Because you are very good at this game. Tell me. Am I voting for scum?. If you think he's town ways a better option?
Got anything yet in the past 50 posts?In post 444, Oversoul wrote:I have one major scum read and a few other minor scum reads. I haven't mentioned any of them explicitly yet because I am still waiting for them to do scummy stuff thinking they are getting away with it.
Hint: lurking + active lurking
[/quote]In post 421, Iecerint wrote:I keep getting townreads on the people that people think are obvscum. :[
Sorry about the not posting thing, it will pick up now that I am back from V/LA, and the weekend is coming. If you were a vig with only one shot, who would it be tonight?In post 751, zMuffinMan wrote:like seriously, if a multivig exists, i want you to go fucking insane on this playlist and shoot everyone in the fucking game with less than 20 posts (with the possible exception of bbmolla who just replaced in but holy fuck why is he already prod dodging?)
and while you're at it, feel free to take shots at most of the people with over 20 posts as well
when the fucking moderator is in the top 10 posters of a large game D1, something is wrong
Um, do town offer to be vigged either?In post 752, talah wrote:I think that to use the reasoning that KA knew TIP's alignment, the normal train of though would be that they must be buddies. That's not what BRO arrived at, however.In post 740, mnemonicdevice wrote:@Talah: Why is BRO scummy? I understand that he called KA scummy, but is there anything else?
Let me put it this way.
KA as scum reads something and presumes it's an example of them as town. BRO as town reads the same thing and presumes it's an example of them as scum. BRO wonders why KA reached a faulty conclusion.
His argument against KA at that point is that KA must have made this mistake because he knows TIP's alignment is town. But the more compelling thought when you think through it that far, would be that KA knows TIP's alignment isscum. Because KA as scum would be more likely to be surprised by a scumbuddy posting something where he was scum from another game, rather than a townie posting the same thing.
However BRO doesn't mention anything of the sort which leads me to thinking that BRO is necessarily presuming -something- about TIP's alignment, and in the face of extreme lack of content aside from that one push, I'm tending scum on BRO (and I've already asked him to clarify but apparently he doesn't want to post in this game).
I've been cautiously townreading AGar for some time now. What change are you talking about and why is this a question worth asking?Why the change on AGar?
Do scum offer to be vigged when they don't know whether or not there's a vig in the setup?How is DeathNote offering to catch a bullet town?
Thanks for the great responses talah. Currently you have moved from scum to Null-Scum for this town post. However, seeing as it is between you, Venmar, and KA for the lynch today, I will sheep this way if necessary, since I find you more scummy than Venmar and KA.His posting looks uncomfortable with itself and a bit overly defensive. His votes have been off as well just from memory. I'm not sold on his as scum but if there's support for his lynch I'm happy to go there.Why is KK your fallover after BRO?
Yeah that's right, and I'd also be happy enough to lynch Venmar and Deltawave today which I think I mentioned, also slightly agreeing with zMuffin above that there seems to be a fair bit of dead weight in this game which is fine for lynching.you also have TIP and AD as other slight scum reads?
Regarding TIP, I doubt that there's enough support for his lynch today, because generally people find him to be a character and want to keep him around if there's a chance he might be town (which is always the case Day 1). I tend to take the same attitude with people like Nacho and Mastin (and others I guess) Day 1 so I understand that kind of reasoning. I also have an incredibly bad track record of leading lynches and being correct, whereas I have an incredibly good success rate sheeping my townreads onto successful lynches.
Regarding AD - I'm waiting for more content which I doubt is going to eventuate today but I might consider lynching him. It looks pretty unlikely to happen, though.
There's not really enough from him to read him one way or another and he's actually promised more content if he can effectively lurk out today. Whatever. I think there are better options and I think that pressing for his lynch will just cause him to replace so it's a waste of time with deadline only a couple of days out.Why is Reck a bad lynch today?
Why is AD separated from the lurkers?
Why don't you have a townread on Venmar?In post 782, KingdomAces wrote:VOTE: Venmar
A: I don't have a townread on him.
B: He's been at least marginally more active than some of the other options.
C: Even if he's town, he's doesn't seem to want to actually help.
Unless we just want to go for a lurker lynch, I don't think anyone else in the game would be a better option right now.
What emotional reasons? And why would you not have any scumreads? Does anyone else find this scummy, or is it just me?In post 793, KingdomAces wrote:He's the closest thing I have to an actual scumread right now. The main thing stopping me from flat out saying he's a scumread is that I fear emotional reasons may be getting in the way of logic right now.
Lurkers have the possibility of not being lurkers later. Venmar has been active enough that it's clear that he's not planning on ever doing any more than he actually is.
Some of my vote is that it appears to be one of the bigger wagons right now and deadline, but I also really think that literally no one else in the game would make a better one.
And no, I don't have any true scumreads. That's because I find that I work far better when I get townreads and PoE from there.
Aaaaand your back to scum talah. Disregard the "talah is now null-scum" thing above. Why are you tired of day one? Town should keep on thinking instead of purely sheeping like this.In post 794, talah wrote:Look I legitimately don't give a fuck who you vote right now I'll sheep it, so don't feel bound to Venmar but I'm bound to feel/read something into whoever you target so I mean it's a responsibility. I am so so tired of Day 1 in this game and I want a flip.In post 787, zMuffinMan wrote:i'm not married to the idea talah is town, but none of the arguments for her being scum are convincing to me and i see a lot more reason to think she's town than scum (plus, i mean, the fact she seems to be one of the only players who really seems to give a shit about the game is something in her favour)
i'm also starting to get cold feet because of how many people are basically saying "i'm voting venmar because muffin said to". i understand deadline and stuff, but :/
Well, you should place your vote soon, since we got less than 48 hours according to the countdown.
Looks like iec saying things to make it seem like he is active... Nvm, read on later, and he does start posting content.In post 1157, Iecerint wrote:No indication of what might be up here? Are you claiming that your blue text was a total shock to you after reading the previous speculation about what might cause it?
AAAAAnd... here we go again with teh useless
In post 1186, Bulbazak wrote:Vote Papa Zito
I'm really not comfortable with that list. Something's wrong with it somewhere.
Town reasoning here.In post 1199, Iecerint wrote:I am an idiot. You being roleblocked could indeed account for it, and is probably what happened because you claimed "confirmable at night" or something yesterday.
Venmar is 1 room away from you, so you could only be blocked by someone at most 1 room away from you if I understand how the mechanics work. I think your logic that it is more likely to be someone in your room makes more sense, provided that the person in your room was capable of blocking you.
Room 5
xReckonerX
Prof Fridays
farside22
Kublai Khan
Room 4 <--- most likely because a block from outside would fail if she targeted a roommate, and talah would rationally target a roommate for that reason
BROseidon
Bulbazak
talah
Agar
Room 3
Venmar
Oversoul
GuyInFreezer
Papa Zito
I should mention that I clarified with the Mod D1 that geography could not cause my action to fail, so it's not the case that my lack of proximity to talah accounts for a null result.
Why is he town?In post 1209, talah wrote:XD
I love that you're town.
My main problem with Venmar atm is that aside from the track no-result, his claim protecting Oversoul seems weak, and he's not dying for what - three nights now? And hey cool for town it seems. I don't get Oversoul as a protect.
He didn't mention why he didn't protect me, and his talking about it seems like he understands the best moves, but just didn't take it?
Why did BB die then? I mean he was partially suspecting me, he said let's not lynch Venmar *today*, and that's about it apart from saying KA was town. KA had a lot to say and frankly was not scumread by a huge amount of folks, so he must have been saying things of value. Unless you think Molla was somehow going to lynch scum? Or you think he wifommed vig hard enough? Egh...
To me it just seems like Molla was the vig target, especially considering the goo, which I think Pere raised as a possibility too. Roughly half the player list has wifommed vig at this point I reckon.
ed: stop ruining moments zMuffin
In post 1235, PeregrineV wrote:It's your opinion that you are "low hanging fruit"?In post 1189, TheIrishPope wrote:VOTE: AGar
Pretty convinced that he's hard tunneling low hanging fruit to look town.
Who are the low hanging fruits of this playerlist? You can present them in order of "ease of picking" if you like.
hmm.In post 1352, TheIrishPope wrote:Prof Fridays is probably scum now that I think about it.
Getting less negative vibes from P5.
I can get on the Iec wagon.
VOTE: Iece
Low hanging fruit comment, uh... not much to say about it, pretty obvious that i'm not the best around and I'm not too bad that the lynch would be obviously coming from scum but not too good that it's impossible to lynch me
Yes ZZZX, you me, and TIP all played together in a game before. From what I remember it was abandoned by teh mod. (I can talk about abandoned games right? If not please tell me)In post 1377, ZZZX wrote:
:/
Have we even played with each others?
Well I need alot of catch up, Can someone give me an idea of what is going on so far?
My interpretation: "Basically, I am having a hard time understanding why i am not obvtown. I did everything it says to do in this manual for scumz. I am starting to get worried that town is starting to catch on though."In post 1396, Iecerint wrote:I
Basically I am having a hard time understanding anyone thinking that I am anything but obvtown, but at least 2 people seem to think that.
In post 1694, AGar wrote:Somebody let me know when we pull our heads out of our collective asses and decide "Hey let's actually lynch the fucking scumbag."
In post 1761, Venmar wrote:FYI, theory alert, I believe one of Zito and Oversoul are scum, guaranteed, if not both.
Why?
Molla was in their room and Molla died. I was also in said room. If Molla was shot in the same room as a claimed bodyguard, it would have to be someone close to Molla or someone close enough to me to block me, so a kill on Molla could be carried out in confidence.
My mind works in mysterious ways, piss off if you think i'm barking mad.
Hmm... will post content soon, caught up though, and don't really see a good reason to vote either bulba or TIPIn post 1762, Venmar wrote:This theory of course makes it likely that I was the one blocked, not Talah, which makes Talah the lying tracker if Iece got a null on her when she claimed to have visit me.
Unless in the brief period I was inactive I missed intricate details about the actual night actions of Iece and AD.
Why?In post 2715, Oversoul wrote:md for scums
Good to know.In post 2716, Magua wrote:In post 2684, talah wrote:Two full-role trackers isn't a thing. Iec is town. I'm have a little re-read of today's events too.
Unrelatedly, I fully and completely believe talah's adjusting investigator claim because holy shit zoraster is proud of that role and has used it before.
[/quote](To Cheery)
show how you expect any Cry Wolf investigation result to be useful especially given scum will lie about what they received.
Black Light doing something with the goo is a very good guess (eg, identify everyone who has goo?) However, I'm not sure of the usefulness of this, given that we know(?) there's two types of goo and that Nacho didn't have any goo when he died. So I'm going for Always On, because holy shit I think that's powerful mojo, but I understand thatrecluseshermitsOversouldisagree. Still, Cry_Wolf is just objectively terrible.
In post 2732, farside22 wrote:I'm back! Ms is back! Yah!!!!
I'm looking mostly at nemomic or tip for today's lynch.
How is bold town speaking? He gives a reason, but then backs out of it by saying that he didn't remember any of the other canidates.In post 2747, Iecerint wrote:Oh, I forgot about the nomination mechanic today. That makes AD a pretty OK lynch, though I don't remember all the other options offhand(i.e., he beats the ones I can remember, which are just Magua without looking back tbh).
Uh, I know Dan couldn't come to MoS's meet due to "finals or something." So that may be an excuse AD might give.
I have.
Talah.In post 2777, talah wrote:mnem.
Yeah Talah? Why me?In post 2794, talah wrote:Yah. Mnemonic.
In post 2797, Juls wrote:Well, the sticker giver is a "special action" so....he better have a good claim
What is this sticker-giver person? Is it basically a vig blocker?
Whoops, missed Juls's post. I guess I can give my action, although I don't know how much help it gives town. I am avoiding posting it until we know better what goo does, or I am pushed nearer to lynch, so that way it doesn't give an advantage to scum if they know what the goo does.In post 2843, talah wrote:Because I got a result on you which is "special action" and you haven't posted since day start till just now. Juls mentioned the sticker giver role prior to me outing who I got the result on (although if you'd been reading along since Day start and just choosing not to post, as you seem to imply by saying you only have to catch up on events "since the crash", you'd know this).
So now it's out that I have a result on you, and you need to claim your action.
Nope.In post 3048, Aronis wrote:VOTE: mnemonic device
He is obviously avoiding answering questions. He should be killed immediately. He's just going to prod dodge until deadline otherwise.
#StillNopeIn post 3065, Aronis wrote:And he still hasn't shown up. Just wait. His next excuse will be that he lives in Australia.In post 3034, mnemonicdevice wrote:Sorry. Last day of finals. Will fix everyone's problems tonight.
Dying in the meat world.In post 3094, mnemonicdevice wrote:I live in the US. My excuses are over unless i start dying. In which case, I will replace out.