London Mafia - SCORES ARE IN - See you in London 2

[MeMe]

Here's a summary of what I had for role claims:

d8p - town
Green Crayons - mason with Kelvin
Jalyn - character that can't be found on the literature site
Kelvin - mason with Green Crayons
Porro - Jane Moore, townie
rite - Professor Kendall
Totem - Lestrade (cop)
Werebear - Mycroft Holmes

Well, according to my notes, Arminger had my current vote. I'll stick with that (but I don't even think he's been around at all since the crash).

vote: Arminger

[MeMe]

Uh - hey. I still have listed 19 as being alive. Is that incorrect? This is what I have:

Arminger

CaptainBlicero

d8p

Darkblade/jadesmar

- and which of these is playing?
DoomCow
Dourgrim

Dragon Slayer

Green Crayons

Jalyn

John W Wells/

Norinel

- which of these?

Kelvin

Korais666

MeMe

mikegoo

Night Stalker

Porro

rite

Totem

Werebear

(names matching the mod list bolded).

Am rather confused.

[MeMe]

Well, as tempting as it is not to reopen a can of worms (especially one that involves me) -- in the interest of fair play I'll remind everyone of what I can remember.

Totem investigated me Night 4 and found that I hadn't done anything wrong but that he thinks I could become troublesome. The expressed thoughts on this were that I could be recruitable or that Lestrade is paranoid and investigations must be viewed in light of this. The people leaning toward me being recruitable gave weight to the fact that Totem's extra information had been accurate so far (though he always gets "guilty" along with the info).

If anyone else can contribute happenings, that'd be cool. My actual notes involve who I think is guilty/innocent -- not specific game occurrences.

[MeMe]

I do think that we should be careful not to end the day until everyone (or a replacement for everyone) has showed up again. That said, I'd rather have my vote on someone I found suspicious before the crash -- active or no. I see no reason to limit my vote-choices to those who are currently around.

[MeMe]

Sorry to post post post -- but I just found my dead roles list.

Mackay

- Elizabeth Blessington (Nurse)

Hound

jeep

- Jack the Sailor (Townie)

Stabbed

Blynker

- Colonel Sebastian Moran (Mafia)

Lynched

Antrax

- Mary Watson (Townie)

Stabbed

JereIC

- Sir William of Baskerville (Town)

Lynched

mathcam

- Doctor John Watson (Town)

Hound & Shot

Henchman

- Mrs. Beryl Stapleton (Mafia)

Stabbed

KingPin

- Mrs. Hudson (Townie)

Lynched

mith

- Inspector Bradstreet (Cop)

Cabbed

discer

- Sarah McMillan (Townie)

Stabbed

I'm not sure what the expanded roles of Baskerville & Watson were, just that they were pro-town.

[MeMe]

We were bandwagoning Kelvin, not Arminger, based on Watson/mathcam's pressure on him -- but then Kelvin claimed mason and that was that.

[MeMe]

Well, it looks as though until we know who, exactly, is playing...we can't do much of anything.

[MeMe]

Woo! Can it be linked from the front page?

[MeMe]

Just finished a read-through. Whew.

For now --

unvote: Untrod Tripod/Arminger

I want to hear kind of a "thoughts" post from each of the replacements. My "most suspicious" list consists of Doomcow, mikegoo, and Arminger -- all of whom have now been replaced. A lot of the suspicion for DC & mg comes from limited involvement or what looked like opportunistic play (just adding a vote to a bandwagon, showing up to say stuff like "i'm here" or "I'll read later"). This, of course, could have just been player style and, with the replacements, the suspicions could be alleviated. For Arminger, my suspicions are more specific, but those could also be player style...unless some new stuff shakes loose, I'll go back to voting Untrod/Arminger -- but we need to hear some talk, first.

[MeMe]

DS - those are all the roles I have (as listed on page 1 of this thread), with the addition of Green Crayons & Kelvin clearing each other as masons.

[MeMe]

vote: Night Stalker

I think that someone claiming "innocent little townie" would go ahead and claim a name at the same time -- all other revealed roles have come complete with names, even if they've just been made-up-by-the-mods-for-the-purpose-of-this-game names. His "claim" is the most suspicious thing I've seen since the restart and it's obvious that we need to kick this game in the rear...no more waiting around for people to talk -- let's

make

it happen. It would be nothing short of a travesty to just let this game lie here unplayed -- come on, everyone! POST!

[MeMe]

Gotta agree with CB...

John Smith

? And if NS winds up being guilty, I have to wonder at d8p's quick unvote for just about the most nondescript role claim ever.

[MeMe]

Well, we've actually had a few names claimed that haven't appeared anywhere in the stories -- Professor Kendall, Jane Moore, and Elizabeth Blessington off the top of my head -- but John Smith seems too "safe" a claim to me.

[MeMe]

(assuming NS turns out innocent) We have a new entry for the theory section!

d8p -- you're obviously working to place yourself as the "I told you so" guy tomorrow. If you've got a more likely scum candidate than NS, come out with it! Or do you prefer that we grant pardons to everyone who acts suspiciously, so long as they cough up a name when pressed?

[MeMe]

I just went through the archived pages & found this (on page 12)

I'm having a bit of trouble trusting his claim too.

Vote: Rite

Which came after KingPin & Werebear expressed suspicion over rite's claim of "Professor Kendall" because it wasn't found in any of the books. If you had a role that couldn't be found in any book (as NS claims), wouldn't you be more likely to support rite -- or at least bring up the point that not all roles can be found -- rather than to join a bandwagon

against

him?

[MeMe]

10 for Night Stalker (Werebear, MeMe, Dourgrim, CaptainBlicero, indentureddjinn, Green Crayons, Untrod Tripod, Dragon Slayer, rite, Quamire)? That's my count.

[MeMe]

If NS turns out guilty, I'd like d8p to be investigated. Anyone else got any strategy ideas?

[MeMe]

Well, at least last night's GC death clears Kelvin absolutely.

I'd like to hear from Jalyn...the only one who hasn't posted since we've restarted.

[MeMe]

Arminger lurked for all 22 or w/e pages of the game promising better input. He never gave it.

This isn't precisely true -- he started providing input with fury on the last day, drawing a bandwagon onto himself. I think the crash is the only thing that saved him from death. Because of all the suspicion surrounding him, it seems logical to me that he would have been chosen for investigation last night.

[MeMe]

What does

what

have to do with you?

[MeMe]

I was wondering if UT was referring to a possible investigation or the lurking.

[MeMe]

I think we're waiting on Kelvin, not GC, to tell us if it was good for the masons...

[MeMe]

vote: Jalyn

[MeMe]

I'd like to hear from Jalyn...the only one who hasn't posted since we've restarted.

And even before that, her only real contribution that I recall was staying "fixated" (her word) on Totem after he'd been cleared by Werebear. She also claimed to be a character that can't be found in the books after someone else did (seemed possibly opportunistic) and hasn't been cleared by anyone. Basically, this game is moving slowly -- I want to weed out those who aren't interested in helping.

[MeMe]

Did you miss my post above, CB? Yes, she's lurking (after having confirmed in the sign-up thread that she wants to continue the game, making your assumption that she's lost interest somewhat odd), but that's not the

only

reason I voted her. She's as suspicious as anyone else for her actions

pre

-lurk. Mind you, if she gets replaced or starts contributing something helpful, I might change my mind. Then again -- I might not. Depends on what happens. I'm certainly not going to give her a free pass in the meantime.

[MeMe]

Now, correct me if I'm freakishly retarded, but points 1, 2, and 4 pretty much amount to: "Jalyn's lurking." Point 3 I don't find convincing enough for a lynch vote, given that Jalyn claimed early enough to be believable, and there also seem to be a LOT of these non-book townies around (Sorry Nighstalker.)

I wouldn't say

freakishly

, exactly...

Point 1

-

is

about lurking

Point 2

-

isn't

about lurking -- Jalyn posted at a fine rate in the pre-crash game and never was counted among the non-posters, to my knowledge, and I made quite a few lists about them, as is my habit when people aren't playing. I hindsight, however, there was almost no content to her posts other than her Totem fixation.

Point 3

- is just a possible explanation. I'd like to see a formula, though, of where the line is for "early enough to be believable" and "too late to buy anymore" is drawn. (Your apology to NS is noted and interesting...I remember apologizing for "not believing" a lynched townie in my very first game when I was scum).

Point 4

- is not

only

about lurking. It's about a game where we seem to have no leads and everyone's waiting for someone else to come up with a theory or make a big glaring mistake. Jalyn said she'd play after the crash -- she currently is not making good on that, hence my "not interested in helping" comment.

Look, I don't necessarily want to be the defender of the bandwagon against Jalyn. Find a better subject...build a better case...I'll listen and maybe even agree. What's the case against Untrod Tripod? That

Arminger

was lurking in the early game. If these are our current choices, I'll go with the one who's lurking now, not before.

[MeMe]

Going over things, I noticed this:

Jalyn, methinks, has just lost interest in the game and should be replaced (or mod-killed), not lynched.

Correct me if

I'm

freakishly retarded, but this suggestion of mod-killing someone you think has just lost interest in the game is pretty irresponsible. If the mod were to follow your prescription and Jalyn winds up innocent (as you seem to think), we could end up with two dead pro-town roles today instead of the maximum

one

that lynching delivers...I can't think of a single reason that a good guy would consider that a favorable scenario.

unvote: Jalyn
vote: CaptainBlicero

[MeMe]

This is the reason you gave for voting ID earlier...

I'm going to

vote: Indentureddjinn

for this post:

I smell something very scummy. (Good night, though, 1 mafia). Although I do not consider lurking as being that scummy (as Dourgrim taught me in mafia 56), I still think that only a sly SK remark and not much is also is evasion of confrontation.

I found it just not strong enough to hang a vote upon. But your more current argument against him is somewhat more convincing...and I can see from it that ID

might

be a decent lynch candidate.

Here's why indentureddjinn voted for Nightstalker:

Vote: Night Stalker
John Smith, I have read a lot of Holmes and there has bnever been a John Smith in any I have read. Seems fishy...

Now, either he hasn't been paying any attention whatsoever to the game, or he's scum trying to justify a blatant bandwagon vote (like he did today against UT).

confirm vote: ID

Alright -- the doubts raised prompted me to consult the spreadsheet. Looking back at mikegoo's (whom ID replaced) history prior, I see little input in several posts, just like Jalyn. Some of the notes I made on him look rather fluffy when scrutinized. I've got: (and remember, these are strictly from my notes...but I'll dig up the source material if there's demand)

• day one he complained about the random voting and placed a second vote on Totem
• day one says we shouldn't be concerned with non-posters until later on
• day two says he thought "Hound" was a player's name
• day two mocks the current bandwagons as nonsensical and refuses to vote at all
• day three votes Kelvin but makes a point of letting everyone know he's not one of the accusers

Fear my copious notes filled with minutiae!

Alright - I could go with an ID lynch and a loud request that Jalyn be replaced. But I still think your defense of mod-killing is a bunch of hooey, CB.

unvote: CaptainBlicero
FOS: CB
vote: indentureddjinn

[MeMe]

Well, MeMe, you have to realize that I'm not Mikegoo, and I made none of those comments

And you have to realize, djinn, that mikegoo was an experienced player. Are we to ignore everything done by the decent player who used to have your role?

(and how is complaining against random voting making me scummy, because random votes usually hit a town).

My exact note about that reads (and, remember, it's my personal thoughts at the time it happened) "bitches about random voting - excuse to give a second vote to Totem?"

I think MeMe is kind of scummy, seeing as he changed his vote over some words I added to the end of my post so as not to just bring out a voting post, which you guys seem to think is suspicious.

Or "MeMe's voting me because of my words -- which I only put in there because you guys seem to expect them -- so now I'm going to call her scummy, even though I didn't think so when she wasn't voting for me."

Also, I was given no chance to respond, no FOS, just a straight vote. Usually you get an FOS before a vote, and it seems like just voting seems to be jumping the gun a little.

You seemed fully comfortable with going to "a straight vote" with your first post today:

I smell something very scummy. (Good night, though, 1 mafia). Although I do not consider lurking as being that scummy (as Dourgrim taught me in mafia 56), I still think that only a sly SK remark and not much is also is evasion of confrontation.

Therefore

Vote:Untrod Tripod

Is it alright if I hold your own contradictory posts against you? Or are you requesting I ignore your words along with mikegoo's?

CB - I'm thinking you actually have something good here.

[MeMe]

Well if I'd known someone else was working on responding to that post I wouldn't have bothered.

OK, I probably still

would

have bothered -- but it's pretty cool that someone else noticed problems with it immediately, too.

[MeMe]

I think d8p & indentureddjinn are in it together...yes, it's

all

making sense now.

[MeMe]

Above post=Sarcasm ....for now, anyway.

[MeMe]

Assume CB and ID are town and MeMe is mafia

Of course it would also be extremely clever of MeMe (assuming CB is tow, and MeMe and ID are mafia)

What the heck? Why are both of your cleverness compliments tagging me as mafia? Have you not considered that one can have a well-oiled mind

and

be innocent? And why say (twice) that ID looks guilty (with your "raised eyebrow" and your complaint about his "too lazy" post) but not vote?

If you want to go after people, don't do it with suggestions, they're just too subtle. Be brave! Say "MeMe's a mastermind -- that spells only one thing: S-C-U-M!"

or

"indentureddjinn is

not

a mastermind -- that spells only one thing: S-C-U-M!" And then put your vote where your insinuations lie.

[MeMe]

What happened? Discussion was going so swimmingly there for a while.

[MeMe]

How...odd. Usually when one role claims they try a bit harder to look innocent.

[MeMe]

I just went through the thread hoping to find someone about whom Totem had expressed suspicion...but his only post yesterday said that he had found an innocent the night prior.

vote: Jalyn

Still my best guess...and I pointed out a few times yesterday that she seemed to want to get rid of Totem even after he'd been cleared. I think it's possible he may have investigated her...and if she

is

Moriarty, that would certainly explain why she's been keeping a low profile.

[MeMe]

Why would you assume that the hound was alone? It is my understanding that the hound was mistreated purposely so that it would terrorize folks, which says "mafia group," not "SK" to me.

And one more note about Jalyn: I have to assume that if she weren't still playing, LM would have replaced her by now, especially since quite a few of us requested it yesterday.

[MeMe]

Yay! Welcome, Talitha.

But I'd like to hear what she has to say before I unvote her -- I still think that's it's reasonable that Totem may have investigated Jalyn last night.

[MeMe]

There's more to my vote for you than lurking, Talitha. You'll come across it when you finish your read-through -- and you're not close to being lynched at the moment.

What does "Sam the Beggar" do?

[MeMe]

I just flat don't believe Talitha. That has got to be the weakest "ability" I've ever heard -- a one-time follower which turned up an "apparent" innocent? You'd think an ability like this would at least garner a definite result, or what's the point? Put the claim together with her declaration of suspicion for those still voting her for "lurking" when there was more than that to

my

vote at least...and I'm sticking with her as prime suspect.

[MeMe]

~laughs~

Of course you'd be all for a weak townie claim even though no one else has had one/claimed one in this game. Don't think I don't know what you're insinuating, Dour!

[MeMe]

Nope - just find it unlikely that Jalyn would have used her one-time ability without garnering conclusive results. Sounds made-up.

[MeMe]

The more you protest the more off you look to me, UT. DS isn't even

voting

for you at the moment, is he? What are you so worried about -- guilty conscience?

Small, vivacious, adorable FOS: Untrod Tripod

[MeMe]

Oh,

now

I see, UT.

Hope Abby feels better soon, Talitha...but I'm keeping my vote on you. A watching/following beggar role doesn't sound too far-fetched...but a beggar who can only do it

once

does.

[MeMe]

Is there an analysis forthcoming? Or were you just centralizing the list?

[MeMe]

A bit off-topic, but Kelvin's been gone for more than a month and, being one of the only roles I trust completely to be town, I think it's pretty important to get him replaced. The more voices we have who are actually trying to help rather than mislead, the better.

[MeMe]

It seems that when MeMe is most active, things do not go well for the town.

vote: MeMe

The fact is that when things go poorly for the town, I have been active. When things go well for the town, I have been active. You would be hard-pressed to find a time in any game

ever

when I haven't been active. We've only had two days where we've lynched baddies in this game: day 1 (Blynker) and yesterday (indentureddjinn) and I helped with both.

I was reluctant but

willing

to role claim after Totem's initial investigation, but the only ones who thought I should do so were Arminger, Dourgrim, and Porro (according to my notes). Totem strongly advised the town not to push me as he believed in my innocence and said he'd investigate me later on -- I suspect that a big reason he was offed last night was so that he would be unable to clear me (and, of course, because it's always nice to get rid of a cop). The fact that there was only one kill last night makes me wonder if he may have been targeted by both groups -- which could explain why doc protection (if it was offered) didn't work.

I think Talitha's dogpaddling here and I would rather not come forward with my role just because she's calling for it. But it's a lot less necessary to stay low now that we have only 14 players left, and we

might

consider a mass-roleclaim. That would give us the

definitive

answer on the one-shot townie claim and possibly help us wrap things up more effectively. I show seven people who have yet to claim:

CaptainBlicero
Dourgrim
Dragon Slayer
korais666
massive
MeMe
Norinel

Have I missed a claim? Anyone object to putting it all out on the table at this point? If we're all in favor, I'll happily go first.

[MeMe]

MeMe - d8p also has not claimed, as far as I know. He is listed as "town" in your Page 1 summary, but I couldn't find where you got that from.

Sorry - you're right. I got that from a post where he said "townies [blah blah blah] (and I'm in a position to know)." Not digging up the actual post right now -- but, you're right. We've got eight without full claims.

[MeMe]

Found it.

Wow, mith. That was fast.
I wouldn't dream of trying to tell you how to play mafia. We've got our wires crossed. I was trying to express in no uncertain terms how the town felt (yeah, I'm in a positon to know) about the day 1 drama.

Took me a while because "position" is spelled incorrectly -- I was beginning to doubt my own notes!

[MeMe]

I wouldn't call it a "vendetta" -- I think she's doing exactly what Arminger did back on day 4 when

he

was the vote-leader: trying to divert votes to someone else. Because of Totem's confusing investigation results on me, I've been picked by both as the finger-pointee.

[MeMe]

Please explain how you know that the Moriarty mafia has "blown" recruitment opportunity and how the Hound mafia still might have one.

[MeMe]

If no one objects (and I'll wait enough time to let most weigh-in on whether or not I should), I'd like to role claim because Norinel's information is interesting enough to make me believe group-think might be best here.

[MeMe]

???

How can you say this is getting us nowhere? Nori says he knows, per his role, that recruitment can happen -- and you dismiss this as fruitless? Is there some

reason

you want to close discussion before it really gets started?

[MeMe]

I just went back and read everything that JWW (who temporarily replaced Nori) & Norinel said since Totem's investigation on me. Beside my own, John's was the loudest voice warning us not to trust Totem's investigations to mean anything, e.g.

as I've said, anything Lestrade says can be counted on to be at least sort of iffy. I mean, hearing "I have the feeling MeMe's going to cause trouble later..." from Lestrade is rather like hearing "America is a beautiful country" from a campaigning politician.

This is a bit odd in retrospect, since he should have, if he was in possession of the same information that Norinel claims, advised the town to heed Totem's results instead of dismissing them. Now I can clear Norinel somewhat, but the discrepancy between JWW's behavior and the knowledge he should have had is odd, to say the least.

And CB - I don't know if role revelation would hurt or help the town at this point. If Norinel's right and the Moriarty mafia could (but now can't) recruit...and he's assuming Hound recruitment for game balance, then there should be a mirror role to Norinel's that would be informed of a successful hound recruit to

complete

the balance. If this makes sense, that role will be at the ready to advise us of hound mafia recruitment if/when it occurs, right?

[MeMe]

The hound

has

only killed on alternate nights...but there's no guarantee that it can't kill every night and hasn't just been thwarted. But if you're arguing against symmetry, you're arguing against Norinel, not me. I'm just saying that if you're going for complete evenhandedness (as Norinel's suggesting with the "hounds must be able to recruit if Moriarty could" theory) then the mirror role would be necessary.

[MeMe]

Welcome, DP -- I'll fill you in.

You're a mason & you're confirmed innocent, though your pal Green Crayons was compassed to death recently. That should do it...now read & post.

Faster

!

[MeMe]

I completely agree with DS's analysis of Arminger's behavior. But Totem got an innocent the night before he died

Results of my investigations are as allways:guilty but the additional info clearly points to innocent with enough data to clear the person who claims. I think I should keep quiet and not tell who I investigated.

And I thought Arminger/UT would be the logical investigation candidate for that night (as stated here)

Arminger lurked for all 22 or w/e pages of the game promising better input. He never gave it.

This isn't precisely true -- he started providing input with fury on the last day, drawing a bandwagon onto himself. I think the crash is the only thing that saved him from death. Because of all the suspicion surrounding him, it seems logical to me that he would have been chosen for investigation last night.

I'm having trouble coming up with a more likely person than UT for Totem to have investigated Night 5 -- Totem claimed to believe in my innocence and Arminger was out for my blood. Seems a big "duh" that Totem would have wanted to find out what side Arminger is on. I

do

think that UT's continual responses to DS's suspicions reek of protesting too much.

As for hearing from me -- the discrepancy between JWW's behavior and Norinel's claim looks too weird. I can't help but think that there's some fishing for information going on, with little regard for the harmful impact that might have. Before I reveal more, I want Norinel to tell us who the dead role is that was supposedly to play into the Moriarity recruitment and why he's sure the recruitment couldn't have happened without that role.

unvote: Talitha

(for now!)

[MeMe]

Yes he said the person he investigated two nights ago was innocent...that's where I got the quote posted above. Although I don't

know

that Totem investigated Arminger, I think it's likely.

The quote above (where Totem found an innocent) came from Page 5 -- one of the first posts of the day -- when the only vote on UT was yours. Totem didn't post any more in the game. Why would he come out and name UT as his target unless it was absolutely necessary? He'd already said he'd rather keep it to himself.

And I doubt highly that Totem forgot what was going on in the game and that Arminger should be investigated. After all, it was he who retrieved the game for us and who requested "Totem saves London" as his title -- that indicates a high level of interest to me.

[MeMe]

Who's the "he" you think screwed up at the beginning of the game? Arminger or Totem?

[MeMe]

Alright, alright. Obviously DS is intent on disagreeing with me about UT being Totem's probable investigation -- but I still think it's a stronger possibility than any other.

But, CB, I am understanding

your

argument to be that we can't assume Totem's investigation -- whomever it may have been -- to actually

be

innocent (as Totem assured us) because he made a mistake earlier in the game...is that what you're saying? And, if it is, why didn't you encourage Totem to spell out his result so that we could interpret it

for

him?

I

will

stop beating this dying horse, I promise...eventually.

[MeMe]

Oh. Well, then the question goes for you, too. If you didn't trust his interpretation, why didn't you ask him to let us

hear

it?

And even

I'm

getting tired of this subject as it doesn't look like we'll be able to come to any agreement that will let us get any mileage out of Totem's last post.

I guess I'll just wait for DP's fresh outlook. That is, of course, unless something else pops into my mind...

[MeMe]

At least your bandwagonee would come from a fresh (and definitely town) perspective...but I'd like to at least hear your reasons for choosing who you vote before I agree to hop on.

[MeMe]

I had been of the mind, throughout most of the game, that Sherlock probably wasn't one of the roles. But Totem's death scene suggested, to me at least, that he had found Moriarty and had accomplished this

before

Sherlock did...which made me think that there just might be a chance that Sherlock's on the case after all. So, the quote below goes further than I'd be willing to.

[3] Personally, I'd be suspicious of anyone coming out in the end game claiming to be Sherlock Holmes. I have the feeling that role is not in the game at all. No certainty, just a feeling.

To say we should view with suspicion anyone claiming to be Sherlock is dangerous at this point. If he shows up, we should hear him out before bandwagoning (and no -- I'm not he).

[MeMe]

But Totem's death scene suggested, to me at least, that he had found Moriarty and had accomplished this

before

Sherlock did...

That's not how I read it; I thought it was just Lestrade being semiparanoid.

I don't see how you got "semiparanoid" from this

His last investigation result would shock and amaze the town. How would the crowd react when he would reveal the identity of the mastermind behind all the murders ? They would cheer. They would rejoice. They would carry him to Buckingham Palace on their shoulders.

And there, the Queen Herself...

He smiled. Forget the Queen. Sherlock, Sherlock was the rival.
Hmmm. He was ready to give... say... five... no... ten shillings, just to see the disappointment,

no no

, the

envy

on his face.

And Talitha continues to push me for a role claim. Weird when she trusts other players to judge for themselves what would be best.

Norinel: I don't know... I think only you can weigh up the pros and cons of coming out with all your information.

I'm not/don't have a cannon, guys.

[MeMe]

First, I don't have to design a role claim...London Mod was kind enough to do that for me.

Second, "Sam the Beggar" -- you're the last person from whom I'd take orders and, as you pointed out, no one else is calling for my blood.

Third, the more I think about Norinel's recruitment "knowledge," the more I'm having a hard time making sense of it. Why would someone receive information about a recruitment unless they were directly involved?

Fourth, it just struck me that Jack the Ripper was a mason in the film "From Hell." Though I've been hanging my hat on DP's innocence, the cannon thing is one of the weirdest things (besides a one-shot beggar ) I've seen in this game yet.

[MeMe]

That aspect of the whole keeping-role-aspects-back thing has just confused too many people. The thing is, I would be directly involved (The one recruited, in fact), but stating it all but forces me to make a full claim. Any reason for me not to do so? (Since the Moriarty mafia probably knows my role now that I've said that.)

Well, that decides it, for me. I said earlier that I could clear Norinel somewhat -- my information is that he is not part of the Hound gang. He told us that he had been given information (in his role?) that the Moriarty mafia could take him. We had a scene earlier (the "we've been waiting for you" thing) -- that sure sounded like a recruitment to me. And we're not voting for him...why?

vote: Norinel

And, Talitha, I'm not suggesting another mafia. I'm just trying to consider everything from a clear point of view. I've been depending on Kelvin/DP to be innocent -- but because of the "From Hell" thing, I think it could be possible that JtR could have been a mason with DP & GC (and whoever the third is) in his doctor form and ripping at night -- just like in the movie. I'm not saying that the masons are guilty OR innocent, but GC was killed two nights ago -- how long is London Mod going to wait to bring in the cannon? Until it shows up, I'll have to wonder if DP's telling the truth. To me, it's more far-fetched to just believe him rather than to treat everything with the skepticism a game of deceit deserves.

[MeMe]

Got the phrase wrong. Here it is

Hours, and hours, and hours. They had been sitting in that little room for hours, discussing the challenges ahead, sharing their hopes and fears, when the door suddenly opened.
And there he was. They had been waiting for him. And he had finally come.

'You know who I am, and you know why I'm here.'

They nodded and smiled.

[MeMe]

Alright -- reading Quagmire's death scene again and the context of the mith quotes along with Norinel's information, everything does come together to support him...

unvote: Norinel

And the "plans" in Quagmire's death scene support DP's cannon claims. So, I am, once again, happy to follow his lead.

vote: UT

[MeMe]

Untrod, are you serious? You think I would cast doubt on whether the masons can be trusted if I were

one

of them?

I'm not convinced of your guilt, as stated ad nauseum in prior pages -- but neither am I convinced of your innocence...you just seem too jumpy and defensive. The most reasonable thing I think I can do today is to join forces with someone I trust is not trying to manipulate the town for an evil cause. DP fits that profile, so I'm following. Of course, if he'd chosen Talitha as the bandwagon target I'd be a bit happier...but one can't have everything.

[MeMe]

I don't know if "follow DP so I don't have to think" is such a good idea.

I've thought more than my fair share in this game, CB -- so this jab is downright unfair.

Look, if you two are so convinced that I'm scum, why don't you put your votes where your mouths are.

Well, Talitha, as I'm pretty sure you know...I

am

convinced you're scum, which is why I parked my vote on you for most of the day yesterday and with the first post of the day today...and why I said I'd rather I were following DP in a vote against you instead of against UT. And, you know what? I still feel that way, but am tired of beating the same drum when we need eight and not enough people agree with me.

Why

don't they? I don't know, dammit -- maybe it's some kind of one-shot beggar voodoo. And you should be careful about throwing out little challenges like the one above when you've got this post on the books:

unvote: MeMe

- reluctant, but it's not going anywhere

vote: Untrod Tripod

Which makes you pretty much guilty of the same thing...unless you're

not

as convinced I'm scum as you pretend.

[MeMe]

that's 6/8. Do you need another vote for pressure, UT?

Uh...we're

pressuring

him? I thought we were

lynching

him. He's already claimed to be Oliver Clay, townie. What do you want, a little jig? Maybe some light begging?

[MeMe]

Uh - once again I am stunned. First Jack the Ripper...and now Hound-controlling SK. This rather takes the fun out of the proceedings.

But well done, DP.

[MeMe]

Because he/you had

already

role-claimed.

And why are you still talking? What are you trying to accomplish? Trying to throw suspicion on me certainly isn't going to mean much when you're confessed scum...you can leave that to Talitha's capable hands.

[MeMe]

Oh - hey - as long as we're taking credit for finding UT suspicious -- I was all over Arminger's ass before the crash. Remember? Huh?

And we'll just ignore the Totem investigation result debacle...yeah....good plan.

[MeMe]

OK - hold the phone. Are you claiming to be a

vigilante

?

And DS -- you better check that teasing. I never came off of Arminger/UT until Totem said he found an innocent.

[MeMe]

Oh - and when I started thinking Jalyn was more suspicious...and when it was apparent that CB had a decent point about ID...

But not before the crash and certainly not because of his role claim.

[MeMe]

UT - vigilante is vastly different than SK.

unvote: Untrod Tripod

just until we can talk about this new development. Pretty sure he's got to be lying...but is it possible he's new enough not to know that "Serial Killer" isn't synonymous with "vigilante"?

[MeMe]

UT - what does your ROLE say? SK or Vig?

OK - if the hound can only kill every other night, it makes more sense for him to be vigilante rather than SK or mafia...but why would Stapleton show up as

mafia

? Are they separate from the Hound itself? And, because of my role, I've been thinking the Hound group as a mafia group, but that's just an assumption on my part -- let me think about this.

[MeMe]

Well at least there's that. I was beginning to think I'd walked into a freaky alternate-universe game where all anti-towns freely admitted to being scum when the pressure got going...

[MeMe]

re

vote: Untrod Tripod

There's no way, based on my information, that he's telling the truth.

[MeMe]

Uh - nothing.

[MeMe]

Referring to your role claim in general. He's lying -- I guarantee it.

[MeMe]

Woo! That's eight, right?

[MeMe]

A hound is not a worthy death for me...I declare a

huge

(yet dignified) "bah."

[MeMe]

I knew this couldn't last much longer without me....

I should have gone ahead and made my fake role claim when I "exposed" UT as a liar -- would that have made a difference? I was going to claim Ambrose Hebron, veterinarian. Nightly I make a house call to discern whether any animals on the premises are being abused. In my notes, I had that I checked UT earlier (which - after my heated back and forth with Arminger - was unavaoidable) and found him to own no pets. So, to keep the integrity of my claim intact, I HAD to out him when he said he controlled the hound!

The weird thing is that UT and I were discussing the game a couple of days ago (after we were both out) and he was truly under the impression that he had been the one controlling the hound...which is not the same as the information I had. I thought that I'd yet to contact the Hound Mafia, which would mean that UT had nothing to do with it. Which of us is right? Please tell me there was no mix-up! It'd be

awful

to find that he claimed to be hound mafia because of a PM error!

Congratulations, town. This was a tense game and I enjoyed myself immensely --

regardless

of the fact that I'm a loser this time!

[MeMe]

I don't think the town had it

easy

...but you're right about the role claims (not pathetic...but not convincing, either), for which I think we can blame the crash. Three out of the five remaining post-crash scum were replacements. It was hard enough trying to remember what I'd experienced first-hand; to be asked to step into a scum role midgame and play it well would have been a daunting assignment, to put it mildly.

It's amazing that despite losing so many players the game was able to recover and still be exciting to play. That, to me, says "excellent design." Thanks so much, Leo & Cad!

[MeMe]

It was amazingly difficult for me to play. I had to look guilty enough to make the scum with whom I hadn't met yet not want to kill me...and innocent enough to make the town not want to kill me...after I died I said this to London Mod and he said something like "well, you achieved it -- just backward...the guilty thought you were innocent & the innocent thought you were guilty." D'oh!

[MeMe]

Congratulations korais! And I'll be second in line for London 2 -- I lived and breathed this game...I don't think I've

ever

been sadder to read my name in the morning death scene.