Saki Achiga-hen episode of side-A Mafia [OK]

[Kuro Matsumi]

Hi ^_^

VOTE: Benjamin

[Kuro Matsumi]

Winrar is a spectacular program and I use it to manage my zip and rar files all the time.

But 7zip is better Varsoon-Senpai
-- -- --
Who is notsci?

[Kuro Matsumi]

Notscience is a member of the Benjamin Applebaum hydra.

Oh!
Ok! ^_^
VOTE: Varsoon-senpai
I don't understand how you get a fast growing wagon during RVS = Policy Lynch.

[Kuro Matsumi]

I feel like asking who I am when weve been talking aobut me,

That is why i asked! sorry benjamin-san

[Kuro Matsumi]

@KuroMatsumi: Notscience has been a policy lynch in previous games and cabd's post 8 coupled with the ways in which players joined without much input had me leaning that the wagon was likely a quick RVS wagon and may have some members who are voting it for policy reasons. I don't any of this reflects on Benjamin Applebaum's alignment or those of the people on the wagon, though, which bothers me a little bit. It's null. I like when things are more transparent and black and white.

So basically you didn't actually answer my question and you just posted that you know nothing!
Sorry Varsoon-Senpai but i don't see any town intent behind this.

[Kuro Matsumi]

Joy.

I can kinda-sorta buy Varsoon jumping to conclusions based on previous experience with Notsci. Although if hydras could not slip that'd be nice.

Kuro, Varsoon did answer your question. I find this denial suspect.

Vote: Kuro

I am sorry Voided-senpai, but he didn't. All he did was state 2 things, one that Benjamin-san had been policy lynched in previous games, and two that there was a fast growing wagon on him during RVS... which is something that always happens in RVS, so im still in the dark about how he got policy lynch out of that.

[Kuro Matsumi]

Your insistence that I didn't answer your question when I did is troubling.
Furthermore, your insistence on finding town-intent is also worth prodding a bit. What is 'town-intent' to you? Where do you see 'town-intent' elsewhere in this game?

When people actually answer questions instead of going around them appearing to answer them when in turn they did nothing.
Sorry but you are scum ^_^

[Kuro Matsumi]

I also explicitly pointed out Cabd's vote where he said something along the lines of voting Notsci until confirmed innocent.

But, hey, it's okay to ignore that for the sake of arguing against me, right?

It was also his first post of the game, and the third post of the game.
Also he had plenty of time to WOT1 Benjamin.
I still don't get how you got policy lynch out of anything that happened.

[Kuro Matsumi]

Because, i did not like your coment on the Benjamin being a policy lynch, felt off, like you were looking for an excuse.
So i took the next step and questioned you about it.
I didn't like your answer.
Suddenly a wagon on me forms.
So my inuition says im voting scum.

[Kuro Matsumi]

@Kuro: An excuse for... what?
The wagon on you has formed because of what I've outlined--your reactions to my response fly in the face of the reality of the game.

I do not know, and honestly, i do not care either anymore, nor care about your reasons for thinking Benjamin-san was a policy lynch.
Also do not act like you're the one that formed the wagon on me, you just sheeped voided's reason.

[Kuro Matsumi]

It is pointless to discuss any further with caught scum so im just gonna sit here voting this evil face guy, and instead talk with my new friend Pie-senpai ^_^
I feel i don't even need to refute that point Evil face guy made since it should be obious to anyone reading, but if anyone not named Varsoon asks then sure i'll show it.

[Kuro Matsumi]

Cabd looks pretty town for once in his damn life, which does not actually make him town.
Benji keeps making posts that I don't agree with. I don't care enough to do anything with them.
Kuro thinks in an overly simplistic manner. Jury is still out on whether that makes her scum.
IPie in indistinguishable from the scum incarnation I played with years ago. This does not mean anything.

So, we learned nothing about your stances on those 4, and you also didnt take a stance on Varsoon

[Kuro Matsumi]

So Chandra-chan's posts can be summarized as: "ZZZX is scum, also policy. Mara is town" with way less text, why would you appear to be taking stances on people you don't even have a stance on i wonder...
Gut says scum with Varsoon, mostly because no comment on Varsoon at all + Appearing to give info while giving nothing.

[Kuro Matsumi]

I don't understand any of the last 4 posts...

[Kuro Matsumi]

Re 142:
I could get behind that, but i got bigger fish to fry, while i also dont like it when people post no content, the way Evil Face Man answered my question and the way i was wagoned right after makes me think he's a better lynch.
Besides i don't get how that post shows he was following the thread...

[Kuro Matsumi]

VOTE: lufan

Better than anything else that's happening.

How is that better than anything else that's happening? Lynching a player with zero content?

[Kuro Matsumi]

So you could get behind it even though you completely missed the point, but you won't because you need to fry a bigger fish that you aren't particularly frying?

Yes, because i also dislike people not commenting on what's going on, but i find a bigger issue with people evadig questions with answers that appear to be answring it but in reality aren't, and with people forming wagons on townies that are actually questioning their actions.

[Kuro Matsumi]

So i just came and read a lot of stuff.
Most importantly the continous resistance to wagon Evil Face Man.
Not liking how fast the votes are piling on me nor Benjamin-senpai.

Like Benjamin's wagon feels the same way as mine, he said something and suddenly a wagon quickly builds, since scum just did the same to me before, i think Benjamin-senpai is town.

[Kuro Matsumi]

Well while you all have your meta stuff that i don't understand i'll be here voting scum. See ya ^_~

[Kuro Matsumi]

@kuro: how did varson not awnser your question?

Because he never stated why the wagon was a policy lynch for him instead of RVS, i don't get how any person would get it from Cabd-senpai's post as i thought it was just RVS sillyness, not only that but if someone wanted to policy lynch Benjamin-senpai there was the WOT1, so there wouldn't be any reason for a policy lynch, it was just an RVS growing wagon and his statement about it being a policy lynch felt more like an excuse. Then there was also this:

I don't any of this reflects on Benjamin Applebaum's alignment or those of the people on the wagon, though, which bothers me a little bit. It's null.

A filler statement that basically had nothing in it. Not even an attempt to analyze anything happening on said wagon. Which comes back to his policy lynch excuse earlier, could've been building up for this so he avoids taking an stance on anything.
And since then all he's done is calling me scum and voting me.
So yeah, Mr Evil Face Man is scum.

[Kuro Matsumi]

Oh also also
Lufan is lynchbait, don't do that.
Kbai

I would like you to explain this.

[Kuro Matsumi]

Also i wont answer any more questions about Evil Face Man's question dodging, I feel i explained it sufficiently on that post, and there's no need to linger any more on it.
Elbirn-san is an odd fellow, throws a lot of townreads without explanation, and no read on Benjamin-senpai?

[Kuro Matsumi]

I'm sure you wouldn't say this if you hadn't also been doing nothing but calling him scum. Oh, wait.

Well he's scum so.
Also I've also been talking with other people, like you, when i didnt like you making a lot of statements that said nothing. I also commented on Cabd-senpai's statement on lufan. Also i commented on the quick wagon that formed on Benjamin-Senpai.

So no, i'm not doing what you said.

Also what do you mean about your case about what.

[Kuro Matsumi]

I'm giving townreads without reasons too. Whhat's the difference between me and Elbirn?

You promised your posts would improve later and to suck it up in the meantime.

[Kuro Matsumi]

I do want to point out the weird juxtaposition of these two posts now that I notice it. You seem against a lufan lynch in the first, but question me in the second for the same? Can you elaborate on your thought process here?

To answer your question. I have played 2 games with lufan. This is what lufan does. Lufan does not play mafia. Lufan observes mafia, and fluff posts just enough to avoid prods. If he has a role, he pays just enough attention to submit a night action, maybe.

My point is this. I'm not voting lufan because lufan is unreadable and never will be. So all we have are mathematical odds. And odds are he's town. We could policy lynch him, sure, but I'd rather let a vig or a cop sort him out than waste a day lynching him.

I explained it before, i didn't like lufan-san either, but i said it was better to lynch someone like Mr Evil Face Man over someone with zero content, so your read is basically "he's scummy as either alignment so we shouldn't lynch him"?

[Kuro Matsumi]

And if that's Elbirn's conclusion, the correct choice is to lynch him anyways to force him to change, not go "meh, it's lufan" and encourage it.

I actually agree with that, i just don't see any gain from lynching a player with Zero Content, unless he flips scum in which case at least we're advancing towards our win con. Although at the very least there is some sort of content now so i wouldn't be opposed to lynching him.

[Kuro Matsumi]

The situation now is very different than the situation when you first voted for me, Singer. Nevermind the fact my wagon is composed differently, but this is also your second vote on me,

after you sheepishly went back to kind-of-townreading me.

Furthermore, your recent vote comes immediately after Nacho's and immediately after a huge back-and-forth between you and others. Like I explained before, the gamestate and momentum are different. Your vote here is different. The way you're pushing me and your insistence is really annoying. I'm trying my best to try to parse out if it's just you being frustrating or that's coming from a scum mentality, but I'm going to call you out on it nevertheless.

Actually Mr evil face man here makes a good point.
I'd also like to hear singer's reply to this, specially because of the bolded.

[Kuro Matsumi]

I don't think he has enough content to be in the no-lynch zone. He's in town purgatory right now, rather.

Where did i say that he was in the no-lynch zone?
He's done at least 2 things that Cabd-san already pointed out, Voted for him and sheeped Emotion-sensei, those are stances and content that he inadvertly or purposefully generated.

[Kuro Matsumi]

^
What

[Kuro Matsumi]

I don't get how joining Varsoon's wagon while townreading him would get Nacho to talk about it, looked more like a cop out more than anything.

[Kuro Matsumi]

I don't get how joining Varsoon's wagon while townreading him would get Nacho to talk about it, looked more like a cop out more than anything.

Did you miss the part where I admitted I was wrong about why I was townreading him?

Oh... nevermind i read that wrong
Carry on.

[Kuro Matsumi]

So wait, why did you switch to Marquis then.

[Kuro Matsumi]

So you don't like his content?

I didnt like what he was doing, as i agreed with Cabd about his post, but i didnt want to lynch a Zero Content player. He now has content, and i didnt like the content he generated either, so i still dont like him, but now i wouldn't mind lynching him.

[Kuro Matsumi]

UNVOTE: Mr Evil Face Man
VOTE: Singer-chan
No hey, you dont ask a person voting someone why they vote someone by voting the same person. At worst they'll just think you agree they are scum and at best they'll ask YOU why you're sheeping them.

[Kuro Matsumi]

no no
pls stop that singer is a total town

Why?

What about Bins? Did you give a read on him?

All i remember about Bins is a lot of arguing back and forth with singer, which was mostly fueled by emotion so i didn't want to read any of it. So no i don't have a read on Bins as of right now.

[Kuro Matsumi]

bins is
probably town too
or at least maybe not scum

Aren't both of these the same thing.

[Kuro Matsumi]

I will definitely not be voting for Kuro. Their vote on me looks like genuine frustration due to my inability to explain my irrationally emotional play right now, which is honestly what I had a post all typed up explaining, lol. It seems to come from town who doesn't know what they're dealing with.

I really have no idea how to read this.
Mind says scum going for a reason to not lynch town, Gut says town trying to read me.
I'm confused...

[Kuro Matsumi]

Then why not explain your vote?

[Kuro Matsumi]

VOTE: Cabd
At least until my 518 gets responded to.

So basically no pressure from your vote.

Kuro, don't think this means you're off the hook.

I had gotten that much from your previous post TYVM! But you can't help it, since you're scum ^_^ so you gotta make it very clear who you want mislynched.

At this point there's 3 people i want to lynch, lufan-san, nachomamma-senpai and Mr Evil Face Guy.
But my mind's going so confused because nachomamma's voting Evil Face Guy for no reason.
Maybe my reads are in the wrong place, but i still can't figure why the hell would a town member dodge a question and then jump on a wagon formed on another town member by parroting what another person said.
But then i don't get Nachomamma's vote, it's giving me weird vibes.
And lufan feels too easy...

Then there's the people that drop townreads and scumreads without explanation.

I don't get it, someone scummy is voting someone scummy, And that other person is voting another person that's scummy. Then my mind goes back to how scummy 520 is, then there's nachomamma's vote again... i feel like im going in circles, someone help!

[Kuro Matsumi]

Voided-san I would like to know why did your read on me change. Since i don't think i've done anything different other than stop voting Varsoon to vote... someone you said you're townreading?.

[Kuro Matsumi]

Or... maybe you weren't townreading singer, maybe i misread something again

[Kuro Matsumi]

I've never voted singer?

Eh that's not what i said u.u
I said that the only thing i've done was switch my vote from Varsoon to Singer, but i don't feel i've played any differently.
Well at least your reasons seem to be genuine unlike Varsoon's.

[Kuro Matsumi]

Why do you want to vote Nacho?

Because after saying he's always here i ask him the simple question of explaining his vote and he dissapeared again.

[Kuro Matsumi]

He does it so often, he might as damn well be houdini.

VOTE: nacho

This seems to be a good a place as any

If it isn't because of the dissapearing without explaining then why are you voting him?

[Kuro Matsumi]

...

Seems like it's normal here for people to give unexplained votes? u.u

UNVOTE: singer-chan
VOTE: Nachomamma-san

[Kuro Matsumi]

Do you see me thinking I've nailed three scum to the point of "one of my scumreads is voting the other and IM JUST SO CONFUSED I CANT THINK OF ONE THING THAT COULD EXPLAIN THIS OMGGGG"

You will not see me trying to peg entire teams at once. I can be cocky about individual reads, but no matter how sure I am that three players are scum, yeah, I know they probably aren't all correct. That's just being realistic.

I don't understand where you got cocky from my post, the reason im confused is because i didnt know which of my reads were wrong:

Maybe my reads are in the wrong place

, but i still can't figure why the hell would a town member dodge a question and then jump on a wagon formed on another town member by parroting what another person said.
But then i don't get Nachomamma's vote, it's giving me weird vibes.
And lufan feels too easy...

Basically actions i dont understand why they could come from town, but truth is, not all 3 of them are scum due to how the votes went.

@farside: did your read on me vanish into thin air?

[Kuro Matsumi]

@farside: did your read on me vanish into thin air?

[Kuro Matsumi]

Singer-chan's 704 made me feel better about her, i was going with my gut before, but my mind agrees now
@Xtoxm: Why am i so high in your townreads list?
Marquis' 690, 691, and 702 shows a huge thought disconnection... could be scum.

Sorry for the abscence btw.

[Kuro Matsumi]

It took me until singer's post to realize that Benjamin-senpai was talking to singer-chan.
Also there's something that bothered me:

Meh (Do more or something I can read better yada yada)

ZZZX
Elbirn8.
Bitmap

Nachomamma8

pidgey
Xtoxm

but will note my heart wants to oppose the nacho wagon but my heart and soul have zero reason to, given his current level of detachment.

For someone that wants nachomamma-san to do something, he seems opposed to pressure on him?
Nachomamma-san's last post happened before this reads list, so i don't see how anything could've changed that.

[Kuro Matsumi]

His recent posts, however, including #410, #416, and #518 seem more genuine and less drown-y with bullshit. I wonder if he wanted to open with a try-hard opening and that's where the fakeness is coming from and it slowly devolved into a more natural play style later, making me feel not as confident in my vote as I first made it, but I still have issues with the way he treated Pie's read on him because that seemed like a pretty egregious misrepresentation of what Pie was saying.

He had already made those posts when you posted "i'm always here" why didn't you unvote then?

[Kuro Matsumi]

I still think Nachomamma-san's the better lynch, his post regarding Cabd felt dishonest.

[Kuro Matsumi]

... sigh

I share your sentiment... I also had that same reaction.

[Kuro Matsumi]

The thing is...
If Nachomamma-san's issue with Cabd-senpai's vote was it's reasoning behind it, Cabd-senpai explained that ages ago, why just start pushing him now, instead of before.
And coincidentially his read on Mr Evil Face Man changed the momment Varsoon's wagon disintegrated.

[Kuro Matsumi]

this is a part of the playstyle I'm currently trying out.

This sounds like a cop out of a scumread.
Although IPie's points about Mr Evil Face Man, reminded me of all the stuff that happened with him about the question he dodged... I'm still uneasy about Nachomamma-san

[Kuro Matsumi]

Kuro: I'd love if you could stop posting with the sain, evil face mumbo jumbo. It gets confusing for me.

Ok :(

[Kuro Matsumi]

@Kuro - ^?

I don't mind.

[Kuro Matsumi]

As much as I am tempted to vote Cabd to save my own hide, I wont, because I aint scum reading him.

I am actually leaning towards VoidedMafia for several reasons...

1. I have a legitimate gut feeling that he is scum
2. The MOFO has disrespected me one to many times
3. The asshole just voted for me without explaining why, and that is just plain rude

I actually found this post kinda townie, i don't know what's the thing with the people voting this guy.

[Kuro Matsumi]

Can you go over what you find townie about this post?

Also, Constantine replaced marquis. What was your read on marquis?

The fact that he doesnt want to vote Cabd-senpai despite being a way to save his hide, scum would be more survivalistic.
i didnt have a read on Marquis-san before, they barely did anything that i remember or their post weren't memorable...

[Kuro Matsumi]

Varsoon-san please stop harassing Emotion-sensei with your scummy lies :(
Emotion-sensei gave you their reasons, you're just looking for any way to attack them now!
On other news, i didn't like Constantine-san voting their townread!
Nacho-san's scum too, his weird vote switch from Varsoon-san looks like they are buddies.

[Kuro Matsumi]

Varsoon, with me.

My bad, I should've qualified that statement; It's petty, elitist, scum-enabling, and anti-town to withhold info that can help find scum. Simply having a PR is nothing like having legitimate reasons for a read. Good try to derail the convo/point.


Eyy, I'm also scumreading Chandra.
VOTE: Chandra Nalaar
I wanna see how far this rabbit-hole goes.

P-EDIT:
How did you knoooooow?

See! Scumbuddies i told you!

[Kuro Matsumi]

Hey, Kuro, join the Chandra wagon. It's good stuff.

Sorry ^_^ I'm too busy voting your scumbuddy.

[Kuro Matsumi]

You won't get a lynch on him anytime soon, though.
See, if you sheep out this Chandra thing and it goes tits up with a town flip, you can then be all AHA! This wagon WAS scum-lead!
And then maybe you can levy a lynch out on Nacho. Or me, probably.

Becuase it's being pushed by scum and i don't like it :(
And i don't care if i don't get a lynch on either of you anytime soon. But your time will soon come ^_^
Tee-heehee

[Kuro Matsumi]

But Kuro! If you don't get us lynched, then scum win!
Play your damn wincon!

I'm voting scum, I've laid out why, I'm doing my part ^_^
Tho i find it funny how you think you won't die

[Kuro Matsumi]

UNVOTE: Nachomamma-san
VOTE: Varsoon-san

[Kuro Matsumi]

VOTE: Kuro Matsumi
Didn't you just claim to have had a definite scum read?

Yeah, im scumreading both Varsoon-san and Nachomamma-san.
If you've been reading my post you should notice that i've been calling them scumbuddies.
Then i read pieguy-sama's vote count and i saw that both of them were at 2 votes, so me moving my vote towards Varsoon-san is the better option.

[Kuro Matsumi]

Hmm... actually those are very good points.
Also it was Voided-san the first one to attack me before Varsoon-san replied to my attack way back then
Although i still think Varsoon-san's a better option for a scum flip, Voided-san's attack could have been a chainsaw tho....

I feel like i'm going in circles.

[Kuro Matsumi]

Also sorry, i'm about to fall asleep and i didn't feel like analyzing it in depth, i'll check voided's iso tomorrow.

[Kuro Matsumi]

Also sorry, i'm about to fall asleep and i didn't feel like analyzing it in depth, i'll check voided's iso tomorrow.

Nevermind... i still dont understand what im supposed to be looking at...

I'm purposefully manipulating my activity, as I've said many times up to this point.

So you're strategically lurking then?
Are you only being active when you're on the chopping block? Because that's what it looks like to me!

[Kuro Matsumi]

These votes/unvotes are in succession.

This was false actually, Nachomamma-san made 2 posts after his vote, then he made a comment about him making one liners, the unvote later on still looks odd as hell tho, there weren't any Nachomamma-san posts in between, Emotion-sensei mentions Nachomamma-san in between, but none of the posts make me think he'd want to unvote.
Point stands, but not in the way you mention it.

[Kuro Matsumi]

I really dont like the Nachomamma-san / Varsoon-san / Voided-san interaction triangle either... looks really sketchy to me.

[Kuro Matsumi]

Another odd thing is, This was Varsoon-san wanting me to vote Chandra-chan for... no reason?:

I'm assaulting your logic in this game. Don't misrepresent my play as an attack on you. I'm sure you're a fine person independent of this game.

P-EDIT:
Hey, Kuro, join the Chandra wagon. It's good stuff.

You won't get a lynch on him anytime soon, though.
See, if you sheep out this Chandra thing and it goes tits up with a town flip, you can then be all AHA! This wagon WAS scum-lead!
And then maybe you can levy a lynch out on Nacho. Or me, probably.

Then when he can't convince me to stop voting them and join him, he decides to shift his vote elsewhere because:

I dunno man, it's mostly gut. Chandra always jogs in mid-discussion to poop on things.
ISO Chandra, I guess? If you're not seeing it, I don't think I could do a good job to convince you.

Then easily shifts to a vote on Voided-san being easily convinced by Elbirn-san

Yup sorry Nacho Mamma, this Chandra thing is bust.
Back to Voided, because as Elbirn reminds me, it's a good wagon yo.
VOTE: Voided

Actually this makes me think Chandra-chan is most likely town.

[Kuro Matsumi]

I got on Chandra 'cus Nacho wanted me there and I was scum-reading the slot.

The former supports my point i made earlier, the later you never explained other than "gut" and "Look at her ISO"

[Kuro Matsumi]

Well i just Ctrl-F'd Chandra on your ISO, and these is what i found, there's quite a few holes in your thought process.

@Chandra: I'm not saying a vote on me is derailing the game. I'm saying that Singer doubling down on Nacho's vote looks like a means of simultaneously moving from the last few pages of discussion and pushing that momentum into a wagon onto me. Furthermore, Singer's reasons for voting for me are insufficient, uninspired, and unsatisfactory on their own. I'm seeing it as a way for Singer to look like she's doing something and to shift momentum to me in a way that's scummy.
But, hey, I'm garbage and lame, so fuck what I've got to say, right?

^
Hole
v

I don't get what puts Bins, Voided, and I in such a low boat and what makes farside, singer, chandra, kuro, and pie so strongly townread by you.

^
Hole
v

You gonna come in here and push weak-ass play too, Chandra?
Because you might need to reconsider your understanding of the English language if you think "Those reads are surprisingly lackluster. I'd like you to elaborate on, well, pretty much all of them." is literally the same thing as "Those reads are wrong" and ESPECIALLY if you think that translates to "I'm town and you're reading me as scum therefore ALL YOUR READS ARE WRONG."

Chandra and Voided are my biggest pings on-wagon

The closest thing to something that caused a scumread on Chandra would be your comment on 866... which was proved it was more of you making fun of english and Voided's words were correct, soooo in the end you still got nothing, then this:

Eyy, I'm also scumreading Chandra.
VOTE: Chandra Nalaar
I wanna see how far this rabbit-hole goes.

And to answer your question, no i dont think sheeping people on D1 is weird, so no, im not seeing your "earlier points about Chandra" (which if you were just sheeping nacho i dont think why you would even bring it up)

[Kuro Matsumi]

Ok:

I don't get what puts

Bins,

Voided

, and I

in such a low boat

and what makes farside, singer, chandra, kuro, and pie so strongly townread by you.

^
Hole
v

Chandra and

Voided are my biggest pings on-wagon.

[Kuro Matsumi]

Actually this comes right after, guess i didnt see that because the previous one was at the bottom at the time when Ctrl+F showed it to me, but either way:

Before that, Voided was voting Nacho, but Nacho's been pretty transparent about their play and I don't really understand Voided's vote there either. Felt like part of a sensationalist kind of wagon that cropped up on Nacho--at the time, the Nacho wagon was at 5 with Xtoxm, Bitmap, Profgessor Emotion, Kuro Matsumi, farside22

He mentions earlier that Marquis has been a bit all over the place, but the timing of the vote here (after Marquis replaces out, not giving any real reasons for the Hermit vote) reads really foul to me.

So, I guess what bugs me most is that there's a lot of posts that look like they're making strong statements, but there's not really any vote movement until wagons get up to 5 votes on them. The common link is 5 votes and Profgessor being on both, but I'm more willing to chalk that up to coincidence.

inb4 Nacho calls my voice 'awkward' or whatever again.

Although this was your reason for thinking voided was scum i assume, you never followed up with a vote, until Elbirn came 4 pages earlier (or rather, when everyone's actually voting Voided), and the reasons mentioned by him were different (the whole voting nacho and then unvoting for apparently no reason).

[Kuro Matsumi]

not a tsumo :<

Ron!

[Kuro Matsumi]

Obviously, my read on Voided changed over the course of 400-something posts.

Well... obviously, problem was that you never specified why, until a few posts later so nevermind, still tho, you only voted him when Elbirn came in and voted him, your voting pattern has been weird as heck.

[Kuro Matsumi]

Basically it's like you're throwing mud and see what sticks.

[Kuro Matsumi]

Yeah, but you didnt account for the nachomma-san and Emotion-sensei posts in between which COULD have caused the unvote (tho Voided making a comment on them wihtout unvoting voids it (lol) but you get the picture)

[Kuro Matsumi]

Unless your logic says that if i make a vote, then 1 hour later, there's 5 new pages, filled with posts of mine, posts of others, but HAPPENED 1 HOUR LATER GUYZ it's "in succession"

[Kuro Matsumi]

Tldr this is just semantics and we shouldn't babble about it.

I take "in succesion" as "There were no posts that could've changed that read" or "No post from the person being voted" or stuff like that, like... as if you were accusing of voting nacho and unvoting for no reason... while yes, there is no reason as from what i saw, i wouldn't call them in succession personally, i agree that this is a waste of time, i agreed with your point, i disagreed with your choice of words, that's about it.

You should totes get on board the voided wagon to lynch city though.

Sorry i dont feel like unvoting scum just to fill your lynch hungry needs. Did you read what i said about Varsoon-san?

[Kuro Matsumi]

So what do you call the chandra wagon which consisted solely of himself and nacho

I already mentioned they are buddies and Nachomamma-san was calling for him to join him.
Everywhere else his stances seem to change based on what wagons are hot, starting with how he started pushing me when voided started pushing me, to stopping pushing me when my wagon dissipated saying "he will keep an eye on me" to never mention me again until he says "oh yeah she looks better now" and i still think his reasoning for joining the Cabd wagon was pretty meh. His reasons for thinking Chandra was scum are meh too, everything in his ISO is meh, and it's just like "Oh yeah i was scumreading that guy LIKE I MENTIONED 500 POSTS AGO!".

And well i'll use it in your language "his read changed in succession!"

[Kuro Matsumi]

Elbirn, that's what I'm saying--Chandra was quickly becoming a vanity wagon with no reasonable chance of being a lynch before the upcoming deadline.
You proved that Voided actually has a chance at being lynched in the time we have left.
I gave that my backing, to make it even more of a reality.

You never voted Voided until Elbirn mentioned him, which is when his wagon was forming, You spent all the time vote parking Cabd who was hot at the time.
Like see the vote count at the top of the page this post was made, he was voting Cabd, and mentioned stuff about Voided, but didnt want to vote him.
This is his next mention of Voided.

Voided's got no votes now that you're voting Cabd, I believe.

Yet he doesnt mind wagoning Chandra when Chandra was only being voted by Nacho?
Like his scumreads always seem to be the most voted person, sans Chandra who was called in by Nacho, who im suspecting to be his partner.

[Kuro Matsumi]

...because we'd be that obviously scummy in the game-thread if we were partners?
You're thinking too hard on the first-level, Kuro.

Sure, i dont care how obvious or not obvious it is, i'll still point out questionable behaviour that i perceive as scummy ^_^

[Kuro Matsumi]

Yeah, it's crazy, Kuro, it's as if my reads change as the game goes on, like I'm some sort of human who can change their mind and do more than one thing.
But, hold on, that's crazy! Clearly, I must have some sort of agenda! Some sort of -scum- agenda!

You can talk game all day, but it won't change that I'm town here. :/

Which coincidentially are on the largest wagon at the time?
Not buying it.
If scum could get away with that sort of lie, they'd never get caught.

[Kuro Matsumi]

Nonsense or not, it doesnt change the fact that you're scum ^_^
But my points aren't nonsense, you're just strawmanning them.

[Kuro Matsumi]

Besides, it's ok, you can get mad at me all you want for catching you, it's not you i need to convince anyway.

[Kuro Matsumi]

Calling me names now? Confbiased? Will you really rest at nothing to try to discredit my points? If they are as you say... confbiased, why are you resorting to discredit instead of just letting the rest of the people read and take a side?

[Kuro Matsumi]

Unless of course, my points do have some value and you're scared about being found out!

[Kuro Matsumi]

I called for Nacho's support on Varsoon-wagon.

What does this have to do with Chandra-chan.

[Kuro Matsumi]

You can't just ignore things as they are convenient to you, especially when they are similar to things that you are calling people scummy for.

Except i was already calling them scumbuddies before they did that, then they made those posts, as if "LOOK WE ARE OBVIOUSLY BEING SCUMBUDDIES SO WE CAN'T BE!"

[Kuro Matsumi]

Elbirn-san's lynch hungry needs need to be quenched!

Don't count me on it tho.

[Kuro Matsumi]

Oh hey i ron'd again! that'll be 8000 points from you pieguy-sama <3

[Kuro Matsumi]

Either way honestly I'm scared that we can't build a new wagon from scratch and push it to lynch

Let's lynch Scum Varsoon then!

[Kuro Matsumi]

Kuro
my darling d3ar3st , light of my life
Please, it's voided or chandra today. If you vote either I will be happy. But if you keep voting varsoon in will sad

No tears, only dreams now

Considering Varsoon doesn't care that Voided's town and still wants to lynch him, look at him acknowledging nacho's points yet still wants to lynch Voided because why?
At least on your case you truly still believe voided to be scum.

[Kuro Matsumi]

Kuro-kohai, what are your thoughts on my most recent series of posts?

If i thought you were town i'd have sheeped that.
Unfortunately i think you might be building a case to cause a mislynch, If you still lynch Chandra and she flips scum i'll reconsider my stance on you however.

[Kuro Matsumi]

I think Voided is scum, dude.
Get with it.

These posts make me think otherwise:

Well, if you want better than that on D1, people are gonna have to play a whole lot shittier.

I also think Chandra is scummy, but I really want this voided wagon and dropping off of it with less than 3 days to deadline and no clear supporters seems like it'd just serve as a distraction.
You're preaching to the choir with me. You need to convince the other players in this game of Chandra scum and Chandra being a viable wagon in these last 2/3 days.

I'm torn.
Nacho, can we just lynch Voided today and sort Chandra tomorrow?

[Kuro Matsumi]

Varsoon isn't happening today, Kuro. It's me or Hermit. Or Chandra. (And I obviously don't want it to be me.)

Maybe!

[Kuro Matsumi]

I'm just going to sit here voting scum while you guys let the scumteam dictate the mislynch of the day.

[Kuro Matsumi]

you think I'm scum? why don't you answer my question on xtomx

Nah, the xtoxm wagon not included, i was referring to chandra.

[Kuro Matsumi]

And tbh i dont know what to think of Xtoxm

[Kuro Matsumi]

pedit: then vote him. You aren't getting the support for that wagon.

I rather vote someone i believe to be scum that someone i don't know.

[Kuro Matsumi]

you realize that deadline is right around the corner?

now isn't the time to be stubborn and be on a wagon that is defintely not going to go through.

I don't get why this is a problem for you?

[Kuro Matsumi]

You had a really great chance to make Voided your counterwagon.
Why didn't you?

Only scum vote whoever because they don't care who is lynched.
It does show Chandra is town ^_^

[Kuro Matsumi]

I do not support a varsoon wagon, I never did.

Huh:

Varsoon (3) - InflatablePie,

Profgessor Emotion

, Kuro Matsumi

It does make sense with you never wanting to help me get Varsoon lynched tho, and obviously you jumping off the wagon is going to make it even less likely to happen, so don't yell at me for a lynch not happening when you were sitting there doing nothing while leaving all the work to me, then instead of addressing my case on Varsoon calling me a tunneler and dismissing it entirely (just like Varsoon himself did with a strawman). So dont come calling me to lynch whoever the heck you want because you never actually cared for pushing the person you were voting.

[Kuro Matsumi]

Oh ok, i missed that.
But either way, you never addressed my case on Varsoon, no one did... except Varsoon who stramanned it, but obviously im not going to convince him he's scum so an argument with him is pointless. You just decided to label me a tunneler and leave it at that, so I'm just going to sit here on my vanity wagon on scum until i get a proper reply to my case that actually makes me want to unvote him.

[Kuro Matsumi]

Xtom on the other hand, is apparently a person who can be a big voice, and hasn't made his way into becoming one. Nacho's managed to do it, with his limited posts, and none of xtom's posts have content. You havn't made much of a read outside of varsoon other than pinning associatives on him with others, which is often an early sign of overconfidence

I did, i've called IPie, Benjamin, singer town.
I had Nacho and Varsoon as independent scumreads until they became obvious partners to me.
But of course no one's reading my posts...

[Kuro Matsumi]

Actually maybe Xtoxm might be scum with Varsoon considering how opposed he's to his lynch.

[Kuro Matsumi]

this close to deadline

I'm pretty sure over 2 days is enough to get enough votes, so this is an excuse. Just like the people wanting me to switch votes.

[Kuro Matsumi]

really good justification/casework/people backing it.

^
Chandra's town, there's your justification.

[Kuro Matsumi]

Either that or you are reading my posts and you just choose to neglect what I'm writing for whatever suits your push on me.

Because you don't want to stop pushing the mislynch your scum partner is asking you to do?

[Kuro Matsumi]

Join us in the cause of righteousness, Kuro. I would be pleased to occupy a wagon with you.

I'm just going to sit here on my vanity wagon on scum until i get a proper reply to my case that actually makes me want to unvote him.

[Kuro Matsumi]

Spoiler: Varsoon related stuff that everyone's going to ignore again so why bother

Another odd thing is, This was Varsoon-san wanting me to vote Chandra-chan for... no reason?:

I'm assaulting your logic in this game. Don't misrepresent my play as an attack on you. I'm sure you're a fine person independent of this game.

P-EDIT:
Hey, Kuro, join the Chandra wagon. It's good stuff.

You won't get a lynch on him anytime soon, though.
See, if you sheep out this Chandra thing and it goes tits up with a town flip, you can then be all AHA! This wagon WAS scum-lead!
And then maybe you can levy a lynch out on Nacho. Or me, probably.

Then when he can't convince me to stop voting them and join him, he decides to shift his vote elsewhere because:

I dunno man, it's mostly gut. Chandra always jogs in mid-discussion to poop on things.
ISO Chandra, I guess? If you're not seeing it, I don't think I could do a good job to convince you.

Then easily shifts to a vote on Voided-san being easily convinced by Elbirn-san

Yup sorry Nacho Mamma, this Chandra thing is bust.
Back to Voided, because as Elbirn reminds me, it's a good wagon yo.
VOTE: Voided

Actually this makes me think Chandra-chan is most likely town.

I got on Chandra 'cus Nacho wanted me there and I was scum-reading the slot.

The former supports my point i made earlier, the later you never explained other than "gut" and "Look at her ISO"

Well i just Ctrl-F'd Chandra on your ISO, and these is what i found, there's quite a few holes in your thought process.

@Chandra: I'm not saying a vote on me is derailing the game. I'm saying that Singer doubling down on Nacho's vote looks like a means of simultaneously moving from the last few pages of discussion and pushing that momentum into a wagon onto me. Furthermore, Singer's reasons for voting for me are insufficient, uninspired, and unsatisfactory on their own. I'm seeing it as a way for Singer to look like she's doing something and to shift momentum to me in a way that's scummy.
But, hey, I'm garbage and lame, so fuck what I've got to say, right?

^
Hole
v

I don't get what puts Bins, Voided, and I in such a low boat and what makes farside, singer, chandra, kuro, and pie so strongly townread by you.

^
Hole
v

You gonna come in here and push weak-ass play too, Chandra?
Because you might need to reconsider your understanding of the English language if you think "Those reads are surprisingly lackluster. I'd like you to elaborate on, well, pretty much all of them." is literally the same thing as "Those reads are wrong" and ESPECIALLY if you think that translates to "I'm town and you're reading me as scum therefore ALL YOUR READS ARE WRONG."

Chandra and Voided are my biggest pings on-wagon

The closest thing to something that caused a scumread on Chandra would be your comment on 866... which was proved it was more of you making fun of english and Voided's words were correct, soooo in the end you still got nothing, then this:

Eyy, I'm also scumreading Chandra.
VOTE: Chandra Nalaar
I wanna see how far this rabbit-hole goes.

And to answer your question, no i dont think sheeping people on D1 is weird, so no, im not seeing your "earlier points about Chandra" (which if you were just sheeping nacho i dont think why you would even bring it up)

So...
It follows suit that I care way more about my Voided scumread, which I actually have articulated more points against.

Ok:

I don't get what puts

Bins,

Voided

, and I

in such a low boat

and what makes farside, singer, chandra, kuro, and pie so strongly townread by you.

^
Hole
v

Chandra and

Voided are my biggest pings on-wagon.

Actually this comes right after, guess i didnt see that because the previous one was at the bottom at the time when Ctrl+F showed it to me, but either way:

Before that, Voided was voting Nacho, but Nacho's been pretty transparent about their play and I don't really understand Voided's vote there either. Felt like part of a sensationalist kind of wagon that cropped up on Nacho--at the time, the Nacho wagon was at 5 with Xtoxm, Bitmap, Profgessor Emotion, Kuro Matsumi, farside22

He mentions earlier that Marquis has been a bit all over the place, but the timing of the vote here (after Marquis replaces out, not giving any real reasons for the Hermit vote) reads really foul to me.

So, I guess what bugs me most is that there's a lot of posts that look like they're making strong statements, but there's not really any vote movement until wagons get up to 5 votes on them. The common link is 5 votes and Profgessor being on both, but I'm more willing to chalk that up to coincidence.

inb4 Nacho calls my voice 'awkward' or whatever again.

Although this was your reason for thinking voided was scum i assume, you never followed up with a vote, until Elbirn came 4 pages earlier (or rather, when everyone's actually voting Voided), and the reasons mentioned by him were different (the whole voting nacho and then unvoting for apparently no reason).

Obviously, my read on Voided changed over the course of 400-something posts.

Well... obviously, problem was that you never specified why, until a few posts later so nevermind, still tho, you only voted him when Elbirn came in and voted him, your voting pattern has been weird as heck.

Basically it's like you're throwing mud and see what sticks.

Elbirn, that's what I'm saying--Chandra was quickly becoming a vanity wagon with no reasonable chance of being a lynch before the upcoming deadline.
You proved that Voided actually has a chance at being lynched in the time we have left.
I gave that my backing, to make it even more of a reality.

You never voted Voided until Elbirn mentioned him, which is when his wagon was forming, You spent all the time vote parking Cabd who was hot at the time.
Like see the vote count at the top of the page this post was made, he was voting Cabd, and mentioned stuff about Voided, but didnt want to vote him.
This is his next mention of Voided.

Voided's got no votes now that you're voting Cabd, I believe.

Yet he doesnt mind wagoning Chandra when Chandra was only being voted by Nacho?
Like his scumreads always seem to be the most voted person, sans Chandra who was called in by Nacho, who im suspecting to be his partner.

...because we'd be that obviously scummy in the game-thread if we were partners?
You're thinking too hard on the first-level, Kuro.

Sure, i dont care how obvious or not obvious it is, i'll still point out questionable behaviour that i perceive as scummy ^_^

^
I specially love this excuse as if... he did that right after i call them buddies so he could bring that up as an excuse for them not being scum. Back here:

Varsoon-san please stop harassing Emotion-sensei with your scummy lies
Emotion-sensei gave you their reasons, you're just looking for any way to attack them now!
On other news, i didn't like Constantine-san voting their townread!
Nacho-san's scum too, his weird vote switch from Varsoon-san

looks like they are buddies.

Varsoon, with me.

My bad, I should've qualified that statement; It's petty, elitist, scum-enabling, and anti-town to withhold info that can help find scum. Simply having a PR is nothing like having legitimate reasons for a read. Good try to derail the convo/point.


Eyy, I'm also scumreading Chandra.
VOTE: Chandra Nalaar
I wanna see how far this rabbit-hole goes.

P-EDIT:
How did you knoooooow?

See! Scumbuddies i told you!

^
So i make fun of it.

[Kuro Matsumi]

without any worth-a-damn evidence to back that up.

You had a really great chance to make Voided your counterwagon.
Why didn't you?

Only scum vote whoever because they don't care who is lynched.
It does show Chandra is town ^_^

[Kuro Matsumi]

because rl things are totally not as important as mafia.

*Google evo weekend*
*it's a videogame tournament or something*
*"real life"*

Unless pidgey comes jn here with proof that he's a participant and pro vidya gamer, I don't buy it

...

[Kuro Matsumi]

It's funny how the person not wanting me to stay on a vanity wagon is sitting on a vanity wagon.

[Kuro Matsumi]

The deadline will be frozen at 2 days until a replacement for lufan131 is found.

For those guys paranoid about deadlines.

[Kuro Matsumi]

People are also actively defending varsoon

Exactly! there's a lot of resistance to a scum lynch!

while no one has a town-read on xtomx

So you rather get lynched the easiest person to lynch?

[Kuro Matsumi]

I really hope you're town and Nacho is town so that post game I can come and laugh at you.
Right now, I can't understand why you're so strident in your push for me.
I'm forced to either assume you're town trying far too hard to look productive after an early wagon sprawled on you, hoping that a red flip from me would secure you as worth-it,
or that you're scum trying to coast off of this tunnel on me because you figure it's safe enough to keep me around as no one really wants a lynch on me and you can handle keeping me alive in the case of a PR.

I mean, both are pretty anti-town. I've talked to you a bit about this, and tried to point out the absurdities, but you're not even really engaging with the game at this point.
You're just going 'VARSOON IS SCUM' over and over and over, and everything that I write just becomes twisted into more fodder for your inane push and other people have tried to get you to engage with other wagons and you just stick with what you're doing as if its somehow more important.

I'm not scum, damn it. I'm tired of coming back to a game where one player is incessant about it, because it makes engaging your slot really difficult for me. I can't perceive beyond the smokescreen of this tunnel on me--I can't discern why you're pushing me, because the reasons all sound too absurd, too off-base, too newbie at times, and just generally make me question

why

even though I know you inevitable answer is the useless, 'you are scum'.

As town, how the fuck do I deal with that?

You aren't the one that needs to convince me im wrong, but if im wrong, the rest of the town should tell me why, they haven't done so.

[Kuro Matsumi]

Also i already explained why Chandra is town, yet you ignored it. Even your fine friend Emotion-sensei agreed with me on the reasoning for Chandra Town. You aren't addressing it, you're just ignoring everything i say. Exactly what you're saying im doing, except with the difference.... that it's not what im doing.

[Kuro Matsumi]

I also think Chandra not actively pushing the most obvious counter wagon is pretty townish

^
So you didnt write this?

[Kuro Matsumi]

Well actually i do have additional reasons for thinking you are scum than what i've mentioned, but i can't mention them right now, so I don't mind just sitting here waiting for miracles to happen for multiple game days.

[Kuro Matsumi]

I don't think that applies here, what does she have to gain by doing that, when most people are still voting her anyway.

[Kuro Matsumi]

I guess my hunch was right...

[Kuro Matsumi]

Hunch meaning:

You probably shouldn't wagon me, by the way. That's not a great idea.

This was chandra hinting to a PR, but with the last post is pretty obvious >_>

But ok Varsoon will stop at nothing to kill town anyway.

[Kuro Matsumi]

Scum can PR-hint, too.
If Chandra is a town PR, Chandra should've stepped up her play from gamestart and not ended up as the largest wagon heading into deadline.

This is just more survivalistic straw-grasping likely to come from scum run up D1.

^
Scum discrediting townreads on their mislynch target.

Seriously how much more obvscum does Varsoon have to be before he finally gets lynched?

[Kuro Matsumi]

If i wanted to summarize Varsoon's play this game in 4 words it'd be:
Discrediting and pushing mislynches.

[Kuro Matsumi]

For someone who claims to see through me, Kuro, you sure do seem duped by Chandra's schtick.

Well actually i do have additional reasons for thinking you are scum than what i've mentioned, but i can't mention them right now, so I don't mind just sitting here waiting for miracles to happen for multiple game days.

[Kuro Matsumi]

Varsoon's lying to keep a mislynch candidate open, how long until you open your eyes

[Kuro Matsumi]

Kuro, you're a broken record. I mean this as kindly as I can mean it; stop.

You're going to have to NK me to stop me ^_^

[Kuro Matsumi]

Now on more serious stuff, any people townreading Varsoon and not addressing my case telling me where i'm wrong and why i'm going to consider scum, because this is getting ridiculous with people ignoring it when i've posted it twice already >_>

[Kuro Matsumi]

Kuro, you're a broken record. I mean this as kindly as I can mean it; stop.

You're going to have to NK me to stop me ^_^

I'd daykill you if I had the shot.
We'll talk postgame about how this strategy of yours is really, really terrible/not fun.

So you're attacking my strategy instead of my case.
Good to know.

[Kuro Matsumi]

Post it a third time, Kuro-sama.
For the

people

.

Well i guess why not, since people seem to miss it all the time:

Spoiler: Varsoon related stuff that everyone's going to ignore again so why bother

Another odd thing is, This was Varsoon-san wanting me to vote Chandra-chan for... no reason?:

I'm assaulting your logic in this game. Don't misrepresent my play as an attack on you. I'm sure you're a fine person independent of this game.

P-EDIT:
Hey, Kuro, join the Chandra wagon. It's good stuff.

You won't get a lynch on him anytime soon, though.
See, if you sheep out this Chandra thing and it goes tits up with a town flip, you can then be all AHA! This wagon WAS scum-lead!
And then maybe you can levy a lynch out on Nacho. Or me, probably.

Then when he can't convince me to stop voting them and join him, he decides to shift his vote elsewhere because:

I dunno man, it's mostly gut. Chandra always jogs in mid-discussion to poop on things.
ISO Chandra, I guess? If you're not seeing it, I don't think I could do a good job to convince you.

Then easily shifts to a vote on Voided-san being easily convinced by Elbirn-san

Yup sorry Nacho Mamma, this Chandra thing is bust.
Back to Voided, because as Elbirn reminds me, it's a good wagon yo.
VOTE: Voided

Actually this makes me think Chandra-chan is most likely town.

I got on Chandra 'cus Nacho wanted me there and I was scum-reading the slot.

The former supports my point i made earlier, the later you never explained other than "gut" and "Look at her ISO"

Well i just Ctrl-F'd Chandra on your ISO, and these is what i found, there's quite a few holes in your thought process.

@Chandra: I'm not saying a vote on me is derailing the game. I'm saying that Singer doubling down on Nacho's vote looks like a means of simultaneously moving from the last few pages of discussion and pushing that momentum into a wagon onto me. Furthermore, Singer's reasons for voting for me are insufficient, uninspired, and unsatisfactory on their own. I'm seeing it as a way for Singer to look like she's doing something and to shift momentum to me in a way that's scummy.
But, hey, I'm garbage and lame, so fuck what I've got to say, right?

^
Hole
v

I don't get what puts Bins, Voided, and I in such a low boat and what makes farside, singer, chandra, kuro, and pie so strongly townread by you.

^
Hole
v

You gonna come in here and push weak-ass play too, Chandra?
Because you might need to reconsider your understanding of the English language if you think "Those reads are surprisingly lackluster. I'd like you to elaborate on, well, pretty much all of them." is literally the same thing as "Those reads are wrong" and ESPECIALLY if you think that translates to "I'm town and you're reading me as scum therefore ALL YOUR READS ARE WRONG."

Chandra and Voided are my biggest pings on-wagon

The closest thing to something that caused a scumread on Chandra would be your comment on 866... which was proved it was more of you making fun of english and Voided's words were correct, soooo in the end you still got nothing, then this:

Eyy, I'm also scumreading Chandra.
VOTE: Chandra Nalaar
I wanna see how far this rabbit-hole goes.

And to answer your question, no i dont think sheeping people on D1 is weird, so no, im not seeing your "earlier points about Chandra" (which if you were just sheeping nacho i dont think why you would even bring it up)

So...
It follows suit that I care way more about my Voided scumread, which I actually have articulated more points against.

Ok:

I don't get what puts

Bins,

Voided

, and I

in such a low boat

and what makes farside, singer, chandra, kuro, and pie so strongly townread by you.

^
Hole
v

Chandra and

Voided are my biggest pings on-wagon.

Actually this comes right after, guess i didnt see that because the previous one was at the bottom at the time when Ctrl+F showed it to me, but either way:

Before that, Voided was voting Nacho, but Nacho's been pretty transparent about their play and I don't really understand Voided's vote there either. Felt like part of a sensationalist kind of wagon that cropped up on Nacho--at the time, the Nacho wagon was at 5 with Xtoxm, Bitmap, Profgessor Emotion, Kuro Matsumi, farside22

He mentions earlier that Marquis has been a bit all over the place, but the timing of the vote here (after Marquis replaces out, not giving any real reasons for the Hermit vote) reads really foul to me.

So, I guess what bugs me most is that there's a lot of posts that look like they're making strong statements, but there's not really any vote movement until wagons get up to 5 votes on them. The common link is 5 votes and Profgessor being on both, but I'm more willing to chalk that up to coincidence.

inb4 Nacho calls my voice 'awkward' or whatever again.

Although this was your reason for thinking voided was scum i assume, you never followed up with a vote, until Elbirn came 4 pages earlier (or rather, when everyone's actually voting Voided), and the reasons mentioned by him were different (the whole voting nacho and then unvoting for apparently no reason).

Obviously, my read on Voided changed over the course of 400-something posts.

Well... obviously, problem was that you never specified why, until a few posts later so nevermind, still tho, you only voted him when Elbirn came in and voted him, your voting pattern has been weird as heck.

Basically it's like you're throwing mud and see what sticks.

Elbirn, that's what I'm saying--Chandra was quickly becoming a vanity wagon with no reasonable chance of being a lynch before the upcoming deadline.
You proved that Voided actually has a chance at being lynched in the time we have left.
I gave that my backing, to make it even more of a reality.

You never voted Voided until Elbirn mentioned him, which is when his wagon was forming, You spent all the time vote parking Cabd who was hot at the time.
Like see the vote count at the top of the page this post was made, he was voting Cabd, and mentioned stuff about Voided, but didnt want to vote him.
This is his next mention of Voided.

Voided's got no votes now that you're voting Cabd, I believe.

Yet he doesnt mind wagoning Chandra when Chandra was only being voted by Nacho?
Like his scumreads always seem to be the most voted person, sans Chandra who was called in by Nacho, who im suspecting to be his partner.

...because we'd be that obviously scummy in the game-thread if we were partners?
You're thinking too hard on the first-level, Kuro.

Sure, i dont care how obvious or not obvious it is, i'll still point out questionable behaviour that i perceive as scummy ^_^

^
I specially love this excuse as if... he did that right after i call them buddies so he could bring that up as an excuse for them not being scum. Back here:

Varsoon-san please stop harassing Emotion-sensei with your scummy lies
Emotion-sensei gave you their reasons, you're just looking for any way to attack them now!
On other news, i didn't like Constantine-san voting their townread!
Nacho-san's scum too, his weird vote switch from Varsoon-san

looks like they are buddies.

Varsoon, with me.

My bad, I should've qualified that statement; It's petty, elitist, scum-enabling, and anti-town to withhold info that can help find scum. Simply having a PR is nothing like having legitimate reasons for a read. Good try to derail the convo/point.


Eyy, I'm also scumreading Chandra.
VOTE: Chandra Nalaar
I wanna see how far this rabbit-hole goes.

P-EDIT:
How did you knoooooow?

See! Scumbuddies i told you!

^
So i make fun of it.

[Kuro Matsumi]

Well i'm already anticiapting that you're going to use lies to refute the case, as i said the only thing that'll change my mind is other people showing me why im wrong, not the person im making a case on (unless im asking for explanations), because i'm already convinced that you're scum, so i made the case to convince the rest of the town that you're scum, and im obviously not going to convince you that you're scum.

[Kuro Matsumi]

hai

who do i sheep

me!

[Kuro Matsumi]

IIRC, people were calling this scum because it came after cabd did something similar and he was trying to get town-cred or something.

first off, it's not generally something that's town-read I think, and it's a pretty subtle, and weird thing to be doing to try and be getting town-cred as scum

I don't get what this associates with how you townread that post.

This was nice, and in response to notsci asking what motives he would have as scum to question the town-read he had on him. The fact that Varsoon asked, means that he maybe didn't see similarities in his play to another town-game he was in and this is the kind of scum-slip he (or any respectful scum-player really) would have been careful about slipping in, because it's to much lose and not enough gain as scum. The fact that no ones picked up on it gives credence to that, and the fact that he goes "IDK, I don't really have motives to do things as scum" and explain why people give him a pass at times from his perspective would also make people wary about his play and another thing he probably wouldn't have dropped as scum.

those two are among the earliest of his posts that have towniness in them, and I could go find more if I wanted to.

You're going to have to because these aren't enough... at least not enough to tell me why he would have a playstyle where he magically switches reads to fit the largest wagons, focus on discrediting everything and continues to push a half-claimed PR.

[Kuro Matsumi]

Besides i asked you to address my case on him, but that works... for now at least.
I get the impression that he made some earlier posts that gave him a shining beacon of towniness so that you would be blinded by everything he did for the rest of the ga-

VOTE: Varsoon

NACHO

oh.

And yes i know you already explained that... but if he was that towny for you, i can't think of any sort of reason for this...
So yes, please address my case and my points.

[Kuro Matsumi]

but it should be absolutely clear by now that you don't have any support for your desired wagon.

So what's your read on Varsoon, and take in mind that:

Now on more serious stuff, any people townreading Varsoon and not addressing my case telling me where i'm wrong and why i'm going to consider scum, because this is getting ridiculous with people ignoring it when i've posted it twice already >_>

Because saying "You won't get support" is kinda weak when i don't even know where half the playerlist stands on Varsoon specially after i made my case.

[Kuro Matsumi]

From what I can tell, his biggest two reads were Voided and Chandra, and he was on voided early on and stayed on him for a really long time

Yeah, and he's also voted me and Cabd... the other bigger wagons.
I also mentioned that Chandra was the only different one, at the start, which was a sheep of nacho that came right after i called them buddies.

He's equating something he doesn't really understand as something that's possibly scummy, which is generally the reaction a townsperson makes, and is an ok thing to be doing.

And how does this equates to a player with mafia experience? Considering i was being attributed the same thing as being a newb.

He's gone back to voided and was the person pushing that slot, and was really the only reason the voided wagon had gotten going in the first place


along the way, he went back to chandra because he saw that he was a viable wagon, and people were voting him but he's second on the wagon. That also means that, he isn't the reason the chandra wagon is growing

Back

?
He was... never on voided until Elbirn voted voided... he was just sitting on Cabd then Chandra then Voided.

he contineues to stick with the wagon that he wants until he is proven otherwise that the chandra wagon has a good, possibly even better chance of going through

On a half-claimed PR tho!

[Kuro Matsumi]

Pedit: so? that happened before he was half-claimed

yet he's still pushing there!

[Kuro Matsumi]

Why do i feel like i got strawmanned again...

[Kuro Matsumi]

Are people just blatantly ignoring the rest of my case and only focusing on the "Varsoon's reads fit the bigger wagons" point, to try to discredit that one thing to try to bring down the whole case?

[Kuro Matsumi]

Post it a third time, Kuro-sama.
For the

people

.

Well i guess why not, since people seem to miss it all the time:

Spoiler: Varsoon related stuff that everyone's going to ignore again so why bother

Another odd thing is, This was Varsoon-san wanting me to vote Chandra-chan for... no reason?:

I'm assaulting your logic in this game. Don't misrepresent my play as an attack on you. I'm sure you're a fine person independent of this game.

P-EDIT:
Hey, Kuro, join the Chandra wagon. It's good stuff.

You won't get a lynch on him anytime soon, though.
See, if you sheep out this Chandra thing and it goes tits up with a town flip, you can then be all AHA! This wagon WAS scum-lead!
And then maybe you can levy a lynch out on Nacho. Or me, probably.

Then when he can't convince me to stop voting them and join him, he decides to shift his vote elsewhere because:

I dunno man, it's mostly gut. Chandra always jogs in mid-discussion to poop on things.
ISO Chandra, I guess? If you're not seeing it, I don't think I could do a good job to convince you.

Then easily shifts to a vote on Voided-san being easily convinced by Elbirn-san

Yup sorry Nacho Mamma, this Chandra thing is bust.
Back to Voided, because as Elbirn reminds me, it's a good wagon yo.
VOTE: Voided

Actually this makes me think Chandra-chan is most likely town.

I got on Chandra 'cus Nacho wanted me there and I was scum-reading the slot.

The former supports my point i made earlier, the later you never explained other than "gut" and "Look at her ISO"

Well i just Ctrl-F'd Chandra on your ISO, and these is what i found, there's quite a few holes in your thought process.

@Chandra: I'm not saying a vote on me is derailing the game. I'm saying that Singer doubling down on Nacho's vote looks like a means of simultaneously moving from the last few pages of discussion and pushing that momentum into a wagon onto me. Furthermore, Singer's reasons for voting for me are insufficient, uninspired, and unsatisfactory on their own. I'm seeing it as a way for Singer to look like she's doing something and to shift momentum to me in a way that's scummy.
But, hey, I'm garbage and lame, so fuck what I've got to say, right?

^
Hole
v

I don't get what puts Bins, Voided, and I in such a low boat and what makes farside, singer, chandra, kuro, and pie so strongly townread by you.

^
Hole
v

You gonna come in here and push weak-ass play too, Chandra?
Because you might need to reconsider your understanding of the English language if you think "Those reads are surprisingly lackluster. I'd like you to elaborate on, well, pretty much all of them." is literally the same thing as "Those reads are wrong" and ESPECIALLY if you think that translates to "I'm town and you're reading me as scum therefore ALL YOUR READS ARE WRONG."

Chandra and Voided are my biggest pings on-wagon

The closest thing to something that caused a scumread on Chandra would be your comment on 866... which was proved it was more of you making fun of english and Voided's words were correct, soooo in the end you still got nothing, then this:

Eyy, I'm also scumreading Chandra.
VOTE: Chandra Nalaar
I wanna see how far this rabbit-hole goes.

And to answer your question, no i dont think sheeping people on D1 is weird, so no, im not seeing your "earlier points about Chandra" (which if you were just sheeping nacho i dont think why you would even bring it up)

So...
It follows suit that I care way more about my Voided scumread, which I actually have articulated more points against.

Ok:

I don't get what puts

Bins,

Voided

, and I

in such a low boat

and what makes farside, singer, chandra, kuro, and pie so strongly townread by you.

^
Hole
v

Chandra and

Voided are my biggest pings on-wagon.

Actually this comes right after, guess i didnt see that because the previous one was at the bottom at the time when Ctrl+F showed it to me, but either way:

Before that, Voided was voting Nacho, but Nacho's been pretty transparent about their play and I don't really understand Voided's vote there either. Felt like part of a sensationalist kind of wagon that cropped up on Nacho--at the time, the Nacho wagon was at 5 with Xtoxm, Bitmap, Profgessor Emotion, Kuro Matsumi, farside22

He mentions earlier that Marquis has been a bit all over the place, but the timing of the vote here (after Marquis replaces out, not giving any real reasons for the Hermit vote) reads really foul to me.

So, I guess what bugs me most is that there's a lot of posts that look like they're making strong statements, but there's not really any vote movement until wagons get up to 5 votes on them. The common link is 5 votes and Profgessor being on both, but I'm more willing to chalk that up to coincidence.

inb4 Nacho calls my voice 'awkward' or whatever again.

Although this was your reason for thinking voided was scum i assume, you never followed up with a vote, until Elbirn came 4 pages earlier (or rather, when everyone's actually voting Voided), and the reasons mentioned by him were different (the whole voting nacho and then unvoting for apparently no reason).

Obviously, my read on Voided changed over the course of 400-something posts.

Well... obviously, problem was that you never specified why, until a few posts later so nevermind, still tho, you only voted him when Elbirn came in and voted him, your voting pattern has been weird as heck.

Basically it's like you're throwing mud and see what sticks.

Elbirn, that's what I'm saying--Chandra was quickly becoming a vanity wagon with no reasonable chance of being a lynch before the upcoming deadline.
You proved that Voided actually has a chance at being lynched in the time we have left.
I gave that my backing, to make it even more of a reality.

You never voted Voided until Elbirn mentioned him, which is when his wagon was forming, You spent all the time vote parking Cabd who was hot at the time.
Like see the vote count at the top of the page this post was made, he was voting Cabd, and mentioned stuff about Voided, but didnt want to vote him.
This is his next mention of Voided.

Voided's got no votes now that you're voting Cabd, I believe.

Yet he doesnt mind wagoning Chandra when Chandra was only being voted by Nacho?
Like his scumreads always seem to be the most voted person, sans Chandra who was called in by Nacho, who im suspecting to be his partner.

...because we'd be that obviously scummy in the game-thread if we were partners?
You're thinking too hard on the first-level, Kuro.

Sure, i dont care how obvious or not obvious it is, i'll still point out questionable behaviour that i perceive as scummy ^_^

^
I specially love this excuse as if... he did that right after i call them buddies so he could bring that up as an excuse for them not being scum. Back here:

Varsoon-san please stop harassing Emotion-sensei with your scummy lies
Emotion-sensei gave you their reasons, you're just looking for any way to attack them now!
On other news, i didn't like Constantine-san voting their townread!
Nacho-san's scum too, his weird vote switch from Varsoon-san

looks like they are buddies.

Varsoon, with me.

My bad, I should've qualified that statement; It's petty, elitist, scum-enabling, and anti-town to withhold info that can help find scum. Simply having a PR is nothing like having legitimate reasons for a read. Good try to derail the convo/point.


Eyy, I'm also scumreading Chandra.
VOTE: Chandra Nalaar
I wanna see how far this rabbit-hole goes.

P-EDIT:
How did you knoooooow?

See! Scumbuddies i told you!

^
So i make fun of it.

Bringing it up a 4th time u.u

[Kuro Matsumi]

Kuro, he was second/first on your wagon which never got particularly big. Same with Cabd, so....

Nah benjamin and voided started it.

[Kuro Matsumi]

Kuro, please stop posting until I'm done addressing and refuting all of your points so far, okay?

What is the point, i already know that scum will lie their way out of a case, as i mentioned before, it is the rest of the town that should convince me that im wrong or be convinced that im right, because im already convinced that you are scum.

[Kuro Matsumi]

That doesn't matter because he doesn't believe he's actually a PR, just scum who's soft-claiming because, yes scum can do it I just don't think it's something that's happening this game with Chandra

That would make sense in a role-madness game, but this isn't such a game.

[Kuro Matsumi]

I, as scum have soft-claimed PR roles. nacho as scum has done the same, and Cabd as well. all in games that weren't role madness

Im not saying scum can't soft claim a PR in non-role madness games.
I'm saying it's not logical to lynch a soft claimed PR in a non-role madness game on D1, which is what Varsoon's trying to do.

[Kuro Matsumi]

Sigh, with the tunneling again.

Fine i wont mention Varsoon again for the rest of this DP, but im still not moving my vote until im convinced that im wrong... specially because im 95% sure im wrong with the info i have.

[Kuro Matsumi]

specially because im 95% sure im wrong with the info i have.

EBWODP: 95% sure im correct*

[Kuro Matsumi]

I wouldn't call that "info".

Well actually i do have additional reasons for thinking you are scum than what i've mentioned, but i can't mention them right now, so I don't mind just sitting here waiting for miracles to happen for multiple game days.

[Kuro Matsumi]

I'm not claiming anything, im just saying.

[Kuro Matsumi]

As i said i dont mind sitting here alone on Varsoon, until a miracle happens, im not going to reveal those reasons... not for some time at least.

[Kuro Matsumi]

I don't see what else there can be that you can't share

Stop fishing.
I already said as much as i want to say as for right now.

[Kuro Matsumi]

As a side note, Kuro's post is pretty l33t, at least. Heh.

what is that supposed to mean u.u

[Kuro Matsumi]

As a side note, Kuro's post is pretty l33t, at least. Heh.

what is that supposed to mean u.u

Oh wait i just noticed

[Kuro Matsumi]

You come to the conclusion here that Chandra is town based on the fact that I voted for Chandra

This is false. But it did fuel me not wanting to join the wagon, notice i did say i liked nacho's points but didnt want to vote chandra because they were a scumread and it could've been as easily be scum wanting to let me in for a mislynch, my townread was cemented because of her reactions to the case.

you're not considering the entire game scope, but rather, looking at isolated posts out of context.

This is false, the posts were simply taken out of ctrl+F in your ISO for Voided and Chandra respectively.

Chandra made plenty of posts inbetween all of those posts you've taken out of context, and votes moved around a bit as well. So, yes, you are literally misrepresenting my play here, lying about 'holes in my thought process', and trying to say that I never had substantial points on Chandra--something that I've said is true multiple times.

The holes are because your reads changed and you never explained what made them change, so they looked like holes in your thought process to me.

you might just be [redacted]

And again with the name calling...

That being said, i haven't seen much sincere in your thought process, otherwise i wouldn't have found the holes in your thought process. Besides even if it were true i trust my info right now more than anything, if you were sincere your reads change would be accompanied with explanations on why they changed.

P-Edit: AS I SAID, IT'S NOT A ROLE, JEESH

[Kuro Matsumi]

Huh, but all i said was to correct the points that were false, why are you getting so worked up.

[Kuro Matsumi]

Sigh u.u
now you're making me start to doubt the info i have

[Kuro Matsumi]

Did Varsoon think I was town before this post? Why can't it be that Varsoon doesn't understand why Cabd (I think it was Cabd) had me as scum?

His "i'd flip your entire reads list" alludes to he thinking you were town yes.

991 was specifically in response to Hermit's question about how many votes I had, so I don't see what it has to do with anything. Like, are you suggesting that it has some connection to Hermit's desire to vote me? Because it can kinda go either way.

Was just showing that he wasn't there because there were no votes there.

Then there's no reason to hide it, now is there?

There is for me!

[Kuro Matsumi]

So if there were no votes, why would he vote me?

He voted you after Elbirn did, that was way before.

[Kuro Matsumi]

Like i get it, you guys dont trust my read on Varsoon, i can deal with that.

[Kuro Matsumi]

At the very least can we wagon Nacho instead.

[Kuro Matsumi]

Wisdom: Constantine replaced Marquis, not sure if that means anything to you, but Nacho talked about Marquis before.

[Kuro Matsumi]

Wisdom is being replaced. Searching...

uh... this came randomly...

[Kuro Matsumi]

@Mod: With all the replacements going on can we get a deadline extension.

[Kuro Matsumi]

yeah apparently pie uses wot1. pretty obvious who doesnt want me here

bai guys, gl

I'm thinking that this might have been a scum move to remove a town player that has caught them...
UNVOTE: Varsoon
VOTE: Nachomamma8

[Kuro Matsumi]

What do you mean.

[Kuro Matsumi]

Ok, i wont ask anymore...
But i still find it odd that when you were onto nacho someone suddenly wants you out of the game.

[Kuro Matsumi]

Well i guess the fact that im also scumrading nacho helped, ah well, doesnt matter, its just a change of voting a weakening scumread to another scumread.

[Kuro Matsumi]

I don't like the Varsoon push that much, sorry Kuro, but you are tunnelling.

I'm not reading him as strongly scum anymore, something related to him walling to refute my points despite me constantly saying that i wouldn't care about them, yet he doing it anyways, i just refuted the false points about it, but i did think i probably was going overboard so i dropped it and looked at it from a Varsoon!town perspective and it still makes sense.

[Kuro Matsumi]

Sorry i'm underage, and my mom always says to not talk with people that smell to alcohol.

Also it's surprising how i point stuff that i didn't like about Varsoon play and everyone calls me a tunneler, yet Sonic's been pushing people on nothing yet he gets support, at least i know next time i join a game here to just do nothing but post fluff, vote someone and then i'll get support.

[Kuro Matsumi]

Sorry but this is a mafia game, i don't do deals that involve non-existant drinks.
P-Edit: Widsom: that was my initial scumread on Varsoon, from there it's gone to null, to town, to scum to maybe scum now.
But it doesn't seem like you finished reading.

[Kuro Matsumi]

come on people entertain the RP

If we're going to entertain the RP, we should be playing Mahjong.

[Kuro Matsumi]

I can play mahjong. Irl I live in Asia. Don't think you guys do though.

I've actually played Mahjong with pieguy-sama many times before, took me a while to learn all the yaku, and i still havent memorized it all.

[Kuro Matsumi]

What do you mean by an alt?

[Kuro Matsumi]

I hope it isnt some sort of derogatory term >.>

[Kuro Matsumi]

oh...
then why is wisdom saying im an alt

[Kuro Matsumi]

Meanwhile Sonic keeps "tunneling" on Chandra, yet he doesnt get called out on it...
I'm losing hopes in the games in here u.u

[Kuro Matsumi]

Kuro, are you townreading Chandra? I liked it when you called her out for her empty first post.

I currently am, yes.
And i've also already explained why.

[Kuro Matsumi]

You had a really great chance to make Voided your counterwagon.
Why didn't you?

Only scum vote whoever because they don't care who is lynched.
It does show Chandra is town ^_^

^
here

[Kuro Matsumi]

Townreading voided?:

I believe that Elbirn has caught Voidedmafia.

I also believe that Kuro has caught Varsoon.

Xtoxm and Sonic are still scumposting, too.

VOTE: Voidedmafia

Hmm chandra weren't you scumreading voided before?

[Kuro Matsumi]

I do however agree with this:

Here's today's Interesting Chandra Idea: How about we lynch Sonic instead?

I went to make a case on him, but it is not actually worth doing, because:
-He has done nothing to advance the game state at any point
--Calling people town and asking people if they are town does not count as doing this
--He had a great opportunity to interact with me in his sequence of posts beginning with 845, but instead proceeds to call me bad, then realize he cannot get away with calling me bad, apologizes, calls me bad or scum while acknowledging I am not bad but doesn't vote me, and goes back to being completely useless
-He is not being his aggressive townself, and instead is spending all his time being needlessly affiliative for reasons he has not bothered to explain
-His read on me is directly proportional to my read on him
-His read on Xtoxm went from questioning in 835 while buddying him to having him as a second strongest townread in the read list with zero explanation

VOTE: sonic

Yes, this vote will look like a desperate attempt to divert the wagon on me by being trendy and subversive, but that is fine. At least I'm voting for scum.

This has been Chandra Tries To Play Mafia

Tune in at an undisclosed time and place, or just murder her! the choice is yours

I just don't know where Chandra's read on Voided went, nor when.

[Kuro Matsumi]

Then what was your point when you said that he didn't vote for Voided because he doesn't want just anyone lynched?

That post was directed at Chandra because you made me remember something.

[Kuro Matsumi]

Also thinking about it Chandra's vote has been everywhere >.>

[Kuro Matsumi]

disclaimer: i don't know what chandra's read on voided was at any point, I just assumed town because of what you said.

The thing is that she scumread Voided, so she had legit reason to have jumped there, but she didn't...

[Kuro Matsumi]

regardless i still think it's bad practice to lynch a possible town PR D1.

[Kuro Matsumi]

Do you think scum are not going to claim PRs when wagoned?

I know they probably will, but i'm talking about D1 here... not the rest of the game.

[Kuro Matsumi]

If chandra is scum here, then 100% as scum chandra would fakeclaim PR. The issue is, I don't think it's the time nor the place to test it quite yet.

Who do you think should be lynched?

[Kuro Matsumi]

The tunneling is strong with these ones [sonic/wisdom]
See i can do that too!

[Kuro Matsumi]

because he probably isn't.

Yet you're voting a PR over him.
Also if that thing sonic did was a day kill im gonna be very dissapointed.

[Kuro Matsumi]

Wisdom, Nacho's the reason the Chandra wagon even started at all.

[Kuro Matsumi]

Wisdom, Nacho's the reason the Chandra wagon even started at all.

Your point being?

My point being that Chandra was most likely his mislynch target until he got the info he needed (she was a PR)

[Kuro Matsumi]

So nachomamma-san never comments on my scumread of him, and decides to throw stuff at wisdom-senpai to discredit him
Yeah, my vote is in the right place.

[Kuro Matsumi]

xtomx is obviously town

Probably!
Yet you dont want to help lynch scum-nacho who keeps pushing him!

[Kuro Matsumi]

So nachomamma-san never comments on my scumread of him, and decides to throw stuff at wisdom-senpai to discredit him
Yeah, my vote is in the right place.

You don't have anything that I've seen that resembles a case.

I haven't made one! But you never seemed to care about my scumread on you anyway!

[Kuro Matsumi]

You have a scum read on me for absolutely no reason

You're wrong there, i've actually given multiple reasons.
From the randomly sheeping into Varsoon which went unexplained almost forever to your weak case on Cabd, and you lurking only to come out when being wagoned.

[Kuro Matsumi]

Do you think that Nacho ignoring the scum-read you have on him make him more likely scum than town?

Scum.
Specially when i have been giving reasons to why i think he's scum throughout the game, he's been ignoring all my reasons completely, i never made a full fledged case but he still decided to ignore it.

[Kuro Matsumi]

kuro, chandra probably is scum.

IF she is (and i dont think she's scum right now, but just in case that if she's scum), D1 is not the optimal moment to lynch her, if she's scum lying about a PR she'll get caught in one form or another.

[Kuro Matsumi]

Because let scum sort Chandra instead of doing their job for them!
Unless you're scum so it IS your job to lynch Chandra.

[Kuro Matsumi]

Like how can you not see this is not town-Nacho?

It is not surprising tbh...