The Mafia Dating Game Show!! - game over!

[Persivul]

If jingle's green and metal's red, I think I will literally shit my pants.

[Persivul]

farside, if that's the case, work an image of someone literally shitting their pants into the reveal.

[Persivul]

The thing literally stalled.

Hopefully the flips will clear shit up. But I doubt my plan will change much

What's your plan?

No offense, but I think you and titus need to be killed tomorrow if flips come as I expect.

[Persivul]

No one double vote. It allows scum to quickhammer and save themselves, thus winning them the game.

Now, that ZZZX kill is wierd. ZZZX was almost a certain lynch to anyone following the game.

Agreed on both counts.
VOTE: Titus

Initial thoughts: Hermit should probably be the one left out of the lynch pool. As I pushed to save MS and he flipped green, I should be saved. Titus and frogger/boo are lynched.

[Persivul]

frogger, here's a quick summary. I'm doing this from memory, please excuse me if I get something wrong.

The voting mechanic is: top 3 vote getters go into the finals, so 3 of the 4 of us will be there. The person not in the finals will vote to SAVE one of the three. The other 2 will be lynched. We know there's only one scum left. So, if we can pick town as the outsider, we have a 2/3 chance of winning.

Ozgin flipped as even-night cop. His N2 result was an innocent on tony/lufan. Tony claimed odd-night doc and has now flipped as such. He said that he protected hermit/miih N1 (actually his predecessor did) and MS N3. At this point note that mafia got 2 kills per night. But, on N1 and N3, only one person died. So, barring a strange gambit and lucky guessing by mafia, hermit and MS are conftown.

MS claimed 1-shot tracker and gave a guilty result on jingle. Yesterday's 3-person lynch pool was MS, jingle, and titus. I argued that (again barring some extremely unlikely gambit) MS was conftown and should be saved. Others (Titus being the most vocal) argued that MS and Jingle should be put up together since this guaranteed 1 scum kill. They were afraid of the (IMO remote) possibility that Jingle and titus were both town and we would lose. So, titus was saved, and MS flipped as claimed.

[Persivul]

Got cut off there...

The interesting thing is that last night Hermit, who seems conftown per above, was not killed. my initial thought is that Titus is scum, and this was a move to make a wifom case on Hermit.

Bookitty (your slot) was IMO pretty obvtown throughout. I only propose you as the lynch mate with Titus because I know I'm green and I view hermit as conftown.

I'm pretty sure on Titus as last scum and will be happy if she's lynched regardless of who goes with her.

[Persivul]

Either MS was gambiting a fake claim

You're not considering the doc action, or not giving it nearly enough weight. But I'm cool getting lynched if Titus goes with me.

[Persivul]

BTW, I wouldn't be surprised if my early ISO is scummy. This is my first large and I was overwhelmed. TBH I was just superficially picking wagons until recently. When gm came in I largely trusted her reads. That's when I really started paying attention.

[Persivul]

Unlikely, yes. Probably even highly unlikely.

Yes, and if you read my ISO all the way through, you know my argument was that the small risk posed was outweighed by the benefit of sorting Titus in yesterday's lynch and not being faced with it today. Indeed, there was a possibility of a town win with my plan yesterday.

[Persivul]

It's probably Titus, but not impossible it's Persivul.

The beuaty is you don't really need to decide, as town gets two lynches. Take us both out.

[Persivul]

I'm am pretty sure that it's Frogger at this point.

Are you sure enough to put yourself up with frogger for the lynch?

[Persivul]

I forgot about the double votes. Here's an additional one for Titus:
VOTE: Titus

[Persivul]

One of you two is scum because all those flips have cleared Constantine.

Which is what I was arguing yesterday, while Titus was serving up big steaming cups of wifom.

Now I just need to figure out which one of you is.

Again, no, you really don't. Both of us can be lynched.

I still cannot get over Persivul's ISO. It's so scummy.

1. That's me in a large.
2. It can't be that scummy as I never had a serious wagon on me.
3. If you play too townie, you get NK'd. You know that.

[Persivul]

I don't think so. I'm VT.

[Persivul]

Also note that my scum play isn't scummy at all:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=62219
I got doc protections two nights, including the final night.

Problem is that if you play like that as town you get NK'd early.

[Persivul]

We could ask those same questions of your slot. The answers are:

1. Yes, running interference for PRs is a good thing, but not every VT needs to do it, and indeed the game would be pretty chaotic if they all tried. There were enough people calling attention to themselves that boo and I didn't need to join in.

2. By surviving I'm here to call bullshit on farfetched wifom.

[Persivul]

She apparently didn't step on enough toes to draw the NK.

[Persivul]

But anyway, as I've said...lynch us both. Scum wouldn't say that, and Titus hasn't been saying it. If you're really town and really convinced on hermit, then your work is done. We put up me, Titus, and hermit (since he's apparently not paying attention), and you save hermit. Either me or titus flips red, town wins. The only problem with that is that Titus is accusing and voting you, so as it stands now you're in the lynch pool. We neet hermit to weigh in. If he buys in to the above plan we're good.

[Persivul]

@Pers, I think you're town ATM so I would rather have me and Frogger be the flips if I have to flip.

That's fine by me. I hadn't seen boo as suspicious, but if you're willing to go up with frog that's my best case scenario. You two and hermit go up, I'll save hermit. Don't know if we can do that without hermit voting though.

mod, how many votes do we need on a single player to close phase?

[Persivul]

Now if hermit would just show up...

[Persivul]

I'm not waiting a month. I'm replacing out of all my games. Since this one is so close I'll give it a couple days, but if it isn't resolved I'll be leaving this one too.

[Persivul]

Sorry pal

I've enjoyed playing with you.

Likewise. But, there are some people on here that I really

don't

enjoy playing with.

[Persivul]

If hermit would just play the game we could be done with it in no time.

[Persivul]

Save frogger...voting on favorites...seriously?

[Persivul]

Frog put your votes on hermit...we keep you out of pool then you save hermit

[Persivul]

My position is titus is scum and must be one of the lynches...I'll go up with her...boo was townie all game

[Persivul]

If you're going to save titus then yes...frog thinks me and titus should be lynched and I'm good with that

[Persivul]

Ok then we lynch you and frog

[Persivul]

Titus' wifom scenarios she sold to save her ass yesterday were completely scummy. This isn't a math class it's a psychology class. She needs to die. Titus name the scummier between me and frog and volunteer to be lynched with them. Otherwise you're scum.

[Persivul]

Of course not...it's called compromising to get my scum read lynched.

[Persivul]

There is only one scum left...of she gets lynched i win.out doesn't matter of i survive personally.

[Persivul]

Yes you sold wifom to save your ass, obviously did need saving as you were in the lynch pool. You're just peddling revisionist history now.

[Persivul]

Persivul, you don't have to make that compromise. You could stay alive and have frogger AND Titus lynched, thereby increasing the chances that you win the game. I agree with Titus, volunteering to lynch yourself as Town doesn't make sense.

First...it makes a fuck loand more sense than volunteering as the final scum. Do you seriously not understand that?

Second...Yep, I'm fine with a frogger/titus lynch, but I'm not going to get that if you're not in the pool, as you have already said you would save Titus.

[Persivul]

frog, please put your votes on hermit. I'll explain later.

[Persivul]

I'll save the one with the best case, how about that?

How about I don't believe you?

[Persivul]

You aren't doing yourself any favors Persivul.

I know I wouldn't be doing myself any favors by letting you save my strongest (actually only) scum read.

[Persivul]

There is a slight possibility that there are actually 5 scum in this game, Persivul.

No, there isn't. I guess that's part of the problem with your understanding of the volunteering issue. I asked mod earlier if scum would win if we came into today 2:2. She said yes. SO, we know there is exactly one scum left, otherwise game would have been over.

[Persivul]

frog, vote hermit and specify that it's x2. That will pretty much guarantee a win.

[Persivul]

I don't want 66%. The whole point of the game is to read people in an attempt to get a better than random chance.

[Persivul]

I have two on titus. If you put two on hermit now and don't move them, then titus and hermit are in the pool per the tie breaker rules. So, they'll have to decide between you and me for the pool. Whoever's left out - probably you - saves hermit.

[Persivul]

What? I've already put the 5th vote on Titus. So with votes on me and you it's down to us two plus titus and Hermit gets to decide.

I didn't realize she had voted herself. Oh well, we're fucked. Later.

[Persivul]

we know that we prob are not in lylo right?

I don't know that.

Based on previous games, we're probably 6:2 now. If we lynch 2 town and 2 are NK'd, we're at 2:2, which is usually endgamed. This game has unusual mechanics, but I doubt they're that unusual that twon is still in the game at that point. But let's ask:

mod, if we get to 2 town and 2 scum, does scum win?

Yes

See above. We know that there is one scum left. It's mod verified.

[Persivul]

This is probably a dumb question, but is there any information on why there are 2 night kills?

It's specified in the signup thread:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=61941

"Don't feel bad for the scum in this game. They get to kill 2 players each night."

[Persivul]

Persivul noted that Tony and me would be "sure" night kills last night for saving Titus. I would like him to explain this more, or maybe someone can explain it on his behalf?

Scum would be limiting their options by leaving a conftown alive. Since you, Tony, and MS were conftown to anyone reasonably following the evidence trail, by not saving MS it made most sense for scum to kill the two of you at night. The only reason you survived is that, as frog has pointed out, ZZZX had taken a scum read on Titus.

[Persivul]

Here's an easy solution:

As I've shown, per mod there is only one scum left.

frog and I both advocate lynching titus.

At most one of us is scum.

So, let titus choose between me and frogger as to whom is saved.

[Persivul]

WTF - read the slot's ISOs yourself. At this point I don't care enough to do your homework for you.

[Persivul]

Actually your case on Frogger would of told me a lot and I was planning on making my decision directly after since you are the only one left. When you made this post it made me re-ISO you, and now I think you are scum again.

See how that works?

Whatever. It's just a game, but it seems to have gone to your head a little. You're enjoying your conftown status. You seem to forget that

yesterday I was the one pushing for you and MS to be considered conftown. Titus was against that and proposed far-fetched wifom scenarios to oppose it and lynch MS

. Now MS has flipped town, and you are conftown by the fact that if you were the last scum you would have already hammered. This is so freaking clear that no, I'm not going back through the game to show you how towny both boo and frogger have been.

[Persivul]

Save: Persivul

Re-Iso'd and now I think Persivul is town again. Wow, I can't keep doing this!

My money is on Titus being the final scum.

Thank you, I am indeed town, and I'll be shocked if frogger's actually the scum.

[Persivul]

Wouldn't it be funny though if I was scum all along just trolling you all

Funny in a sick, twisted way I suppose...and there are people on here who would do that.

[Persivul]

You should of actually made the town case on Frogger though. I came really close to submitting a post with

save:Frogger

on it

I've said I was fine with that too and I meant it. Just so it wasn't save Titus.

[Persivul]

Titus was a little too kiss ass. She also wasn't doing any passionate tunneling, which is what she is known for. That probably works really well outside of lylo, but not in lylo.

Yeah, I was surprised that she didn't put a firmer scum read on one of us, and particularly me. This was my only large and in the beginning I was lost. I mostly just picked a wagon and came on to cheerlead for it near deadline. It's only as the game wound down that I really studied and made some decent analysis. I'm not surprised that frogger thought my ISO looked scummy compared to other games we've played in. Still, though, it would have been tough with the two-lynch format, because I would have said (and have said) fine, save frogger. I thought her statement above: "You're looking for one town. Everything else can go away. If you find one town you'd bet the game on,the other two can be lynched" was very good and really the best play she had considering the lynch format.

[Persivul]

SNAP I DIDN'T SEE THAT COMING!

I was sure out was titus from yesterday's play. And today's actually.

[Persivul]

I'd add that hermit did a great job.

Titus why didn't you claim yesterday?

[Persivul]

Reading titus' d2 i was having second thoughts but i couldn't get past the appeal to wifom yesterday.

[Persivul]

But however it worked out I'm leaving on a win so that's cool.

[Persivul]

Yeah, I screwed up. I replaced in, but then my dog got attacked by another dog while my wife was walking him...so I didn't have a chance to read up because we spent all day in the hospital and running around town looking for the correct prescription.

How's Rover?

[Persivul]

With the 2-lynch format and 1 (whether accurate or not) conftown it's a very difficult position to be the last scum. Kudos need to go to MS for making a good watcher selection and ensuring 1 scum lynch yesterday.

[Persivul]

So Titus was right again?

I don't know - Titus, were you sold on frogger, or just knew it was between me and frogger? I would think the latter, because I suggested that hermit let you pick between the two of us and you didn't take that up.

[Persivul]

Reading titus' d2 i was having second thoughts but i couldn't get past the appeal to wifom yesterday.

Don't listen to whether you agreed with me but rather if there is town motivation in my play. A lot of people get caught up in town reading those they agree with and scumreading those they don't.

I certainly didn't see town motivation in lynching MS after I made the connections from cop to doc to protects/no kills. If you had simply argued that you're risk averse, maybe, but wifom arguments just ping the hell out of me. I see wifom as newbie or scummy, and you're not new.

If we had saved MS, today presumably would have been 1 conftown, me, ZZZX, and boo/frogger. No clue how that would have gone down. I'm always suspicious of Z just due to his lurkiness.

[Persivul]

Farside, great set-up and modding. I enjoyed the two kills and one save very much. It also made for a more intense lylo than usual.

Yes, and again, great flavor...although I didn't get a pic of my date...

[Persivul]

But however it worked out I'm leaving on a win so that's cool.

You can't leave.
You are trapped here forever.

*hug*

It's not my thing on a regular basis. For every fun game like this, it seems I get one nasty one, and one boring one, and you really don't know which will be which beforehand. Considering the amount of time it takes to play properly, it's just not worth it. I'll probably pop in for one game every three months or so. IC in a newbie might be good, as I enjoy teaching. Unfortunately in my one SE game I drew scum and the IC and other SE barely played at all, so all the newbies learned was how to lose. Actually they were on to me early but couldn't pull together a wagon.

[Persivul]

What's the theme?

And regarding modding - yeah, having a mod that doesn't give a shit is annoying.

[Persivul]

did. I said I am risk averse and didn't want to bet the game. Read my ISO again.

I know you did, key word was "simply," i.e.

only

. It's the adding in the wifom arguments that spooked me.

[Persivul]

So basically being open and transparent and explaining what I feared was it? You mentioned there was nothing to fear. Being bp, I couldn't be 100% Metal was shot.

You weren't open and transparent about being BP.

I've never rolled BP. Do you know when you've been shot and it's gone?

[Persivul]

Meh, doesn't matter, it was a win in the end.