WiFom City: Don't Trust Titus - GAME OVER

[Banana Frog]

PLOTINUS CONTROL YOUR PET FROG AND TRY TO TELL HIM WE CAN DEAL WITH HIM LATER.

1) Stop yelling at me. I'm sick of it. That's all you've been doing at me this game and I do NOT respond well to it. I respond a lot better when we work together constructively, and you know that.

2) I will concede the "control your pet frog" part was hilarious

3) Relax Grat is getting lynched today, I'm not giving up on that. I'm just making my intentions known, because more information had come out that busted up part of my theory. That's all.

4) I'm pretty confident of 3 of the 6 groupscum/SK players, but I'll save the others for after a grat flip.

5) I'll hop back on Grat here soon enough. I want honeybee/grat slot to talk, and for everyone else to chime in too. The day phase started on a weekend, so there hasn't been a ton of activity yet this day phase. Plot and I have talked things through and we're set on a grat lynch today.

-Frog

[Banana Frog]

I 100% expected singer to come in with the lining up lynches line.

Sala, your bullshit point doesn't refute what I said. You were impossible to work with that game because all you did was scream. Had you worked nicely, you might have you a nomination right now.

Like I said. Singer is scum. Grat is scum. I am making my intentions known that singer is who I think is the scumiest, but Obviously Grat is today's lynch and I'm not going to prevent it, and instead support it so town doesn't fuck up today like we did yesterday, which was in no small part thanks to me.

[Banana Frog]

the only thing suspicious about Singer is association

wrong

[Banana Frog]

Singer's vote on Drizzx makes sense.

Yes, as scum

[Banana Frog]

Okay, so I am 99% confident that Graticious is scum!

If Graticious is scum, then singer started a counterwagon on Drizzx, or Frog started a counterwagon on singer. I don't think all three of them are town, or even two of them.

There is no wagon on singer other than me. And I'm moving back to Grat as stated. I just want town to discuss singer a bit because she is dangerous as scum. The best way to accomplish that was with an attention grabbing vote.

I know town isn't going for singer today/now so that's why I'm going to go with Grat, who is my second strongest scum read. Singer is my strongest. But of course she'd use this as a way to scum read me now, like there can't be more than one scum. I was fully aware of that going in when I took that stance but w/e

[Banana Frog]

Please stop telling me to fuck off

[Banana Frog]

VOTE: Honey Bee

Now let's discuss the game state for a bit while this honey bee wagon stalls because scum don't want to be on it.

[Banana Frog]

Sala, you do remember I flipped on ZZZX in that game and helped get the lynch through, so it's not like I didn't know what I was doing. Only on day two when you started screaming about bins is when I tuned you out.

[Banana Frog]

I have to leave. I'll give you what I got when I get back.

[Banana Frog]

At least when you're screaming about scum, I know you're town

[Banana Frog]

Way to discredit why I would even be scum reading you at this point. I didn't actually believe you were scum but I gave you the opportunity to figure out why I'm obviously not but you're refusing to do so...why?

If you really believed I was scum you'd give town something to discuss instead of throwing out a blind accusation.

Why do you say that? So because I've not made a case yet, I'm scummy?

I get it, you're threatened by my scum game because I fooled you that one time but as scum you'd be equally threatened by my town game you know enough about by now.

Congrats...you fooled me well, yes. If I was scum and it was your town game I was afraid of, I'd have a night kill would use it on you, because I know how super awesome you've been lately. Everyone knows. But you're just not displaying it here or you would have actually cared about which wagon you hopped on between Grat and Kling, but you didn't. You'd be hard pushing and complaining about how town never listens to you and stuff. But you didn't...so it makes me think one of two things, and I know what you want me to read between the lines for...so I guess it could be that. But I'm just not feeling it. I think you'd be a bit more helpful in the situation where there was a double wagon at least on giving some town input, but nope.

Pedit: then make your case back on Drizzx and maybe I'll start to believe what you want me to read between the lines for.

[Banana Frog]

you claim to have wanted town to discuss me while not giving them anything but a read to discuss.

I did want to. But I had to run out to chicken and waffles.

[Banana Frog]

I will after the indycar race

[Banana Frog]

Like, the problem I'm having is that you're manipulating what you're looking for because "scum in general" do this, as opposed to "singer in general" does this.

Why do you think I got away with my play in Ori? It's because it was a pretty flawless representation of my town play

. It actually made me pretty confident in my ability to be scum...which is why

it honestly baffles me that anyone would scum read my town play

at this point. -_-

So let me get this straight.

- Ori was a flawless representation of your town play
- This boosed your confidence in your scum play (presumably to make it look so much like your town play)
- So therefore nobody should scum read your town play?

But if your scum play is a flawless representation of your town play, then why shouldn't they scum read your town play? You're basically saying nobody should scum read you ever.

[Banana Frog]

Anyway - constantine is all but confirmable as town apparently. Drizzx is probably town because whoever jailed/kidnapped the TTH hydra is probably the scum. Somehow Drizzx was roleblocked from the compulsive kill or constantine was protected. Yeah, I'm p sure Drizzx was being honest in trying to solicit a roleblock or something. This will probably make singer just scum read me more because of me "defending" drizzx here, but don't care.

Also, I was trying to find a vc, but we odn't have one. I think we ended up lynching Gratuitous slot possibly at one point.

[Banana Frog]

Spoiler: votes starting D2 up to post 2074

VOTE: Honey Bee

Nice try Singer/Matsin, but youre going to need a few more bullets to eliminate us.

~Sally

Also Matsin is scum for voting Klingon and not Grat even though she understood Grat was going to be scum.

More later, sonic wheres that script?

UNVOTE:

honey bee is really easy to read. let me look at him. <3


VOTE: singer

honey bee replaced grat lol ok

im just done with video editing bro. sending you now.

VOTE: Bee
THIS ISNT MOVING.

ANYONE WHO COUNTERS, TRIES TO CW ME, OR VOTES ANYONE BESIDES GUMBALL/MATSIN IS CLAIMING SCUM.

~Sally

How about a counterwagon wagon?

Vote: Gratuitous

VOTE: Drizzx

I would be really suprised if this guy isn't scum. Sorry M8, but once you see it from my perspective you'll understand. My 1x bulletproof is still functional, so you lied about being compulsory.

VOTE: Gratuitous

VOTE: Drizzx

I would be really suprised if this guy isn't scum. Sorry M8, but once you see it from my perspective you'll understand. My 1x bulletproof is still functional, so you lied about being compulsory.

Then something else intervened. Go look at the quick topic. Paraphrasing the game mod here: "Drizzx attempts to kill Constantine. I'm locking the thread because the day is starting. You may no longer chat here."

The mod literally confirmed that we attempted to kill you, and I told you it was compulsive. I also asked during day one for someone to roleblock us or jailkeep us so that it would go from compulsive to useable at our discretion.

If you're not a lying sack of scum, the answer is that someone else did something to save you. But, I think you're lying. We were not notified in any way whether or not our shot was expended, so it logically follows that you would not be notified either.

VOTE: Constantine

He claimed Drunk Bulletproof <redacted> for whatever it's worth. He expected scum to try and use a night kill on him in our quicktopic, but now (assuming he is telling the truth and was informed he still has his BP), despite expecting that scum would obviously target him, cannot possibly think of some reason why our role, which was

mod confirmed

to try and kill him could have failed to take away his BP? I mean, if it was so obvious scum wanted to kill you, wouldn't a doctor perhaps want to heal you?

Too much cognitive dissonance from Constantine. It doesn't add up. His slot should already have been lynched yesterday.


P-Edit: There is no evidence from the PT that we are scum. I expected that you were lying about being BP to see how we would react. I expected you to die and asked you to say what you wanted so I could relay it to the game. That's all that's in there. You said you didn't believe me and thought I was trying to get more information from you even though your first post you claimed your full role.

As I said ... congnitive dissonance big time.

How on earth can you claim we aren't what we say we are when you have the proof of every part. You were jailed, neighborized and the mod confirmed that we tried to kill you. I even breadcrumbed the compulsive part when I asked someone to roleblock or jailkeep us so that we wouldn't be forced to kill (the forced kill was only for night one. Had we been prevented from using our role last night, we would have had free will on when to use our 1-shot kill).

The mod literally told you that we were telling the truth, and you're still trying to get us mislynched? Who does that? Not town...

Plotfrog, quit trying to force a counterwagon on Constantine, I know thats what youre trying to do and if you do it, you will die tomorrow.

Fucking A that's not what I'm fucking doing.

I'm asking some questions, not trying to out shit. I'm only asking questions about what was already outed. I'm so sick of you right now but I agree Grat is scum

VOTE: Gratuitous Honey Bee whoever

UNVOTE: Drizzx

VOTE: Graticious

Fuck it.
VOTE: Atum

Oh geez...

@Drizzx...why did you imply that was such a negative utility, when it's basically a free vig the first night, and can protect townreads after that? And why would you apologize for Constantine dying if you chose them/that slot to JK in the first place?

I also see I'm going to be fighting this scumread on TBB which people can't seem to understand. But whatever.

vote: The Blue Blurr

Why are you voting Kling still?

Honestly, because I saw a couple of Kling votes, and was waiting for a good VC to make a judgment.

Then the next time I was around, the thread was already locked, so it was too late to back out, soyeah. Very easily could have, and did consider it, but ultimately made a deliberate choice not to move.

You're not really going to see me apologize, though.

Also,

St Constantine the Hermit

(6): LittleGumball, Muffin, MaxwellPuckett, Bulbazoor, Klingoncelt

Gratuitous

(1): TriforceP

While the Constantine wagon looks pretty dang good (and Constantine's request to be investigated only makes him all the more scum), the complete disintegration of the Gratuitous wagon pretty much means Grat's slot is scum, soyeah.

VOTE: Honey Bee.

So thoughts on stuff so far:
Drizzx hydra looks good to me, even after Constantines push against them.
I still feel for the Grat wagon, so I'll
VOTE: Honeybee
Has Bee even posted yet?

I feel like sheeping.
Cause thats what Jesus would do. He wasn't no Shepherd.
VOTE: HoneyBee

Oh wholey fuck.

vote: Drixxz

VOTE: singer

-Frog

Prodge

Also,
VOTE: Gratuitous Honeybee

So Blur will stop yelling. Please.

VOTE: Honey Bee

Now let's discuss the game state for a bit while this honey bee wagon stalls because scum don't want to be on it.

Page 79

VOTE: honey bee hope I hammered

When people are ready to vote TBB I'll be ready.

I think this is what has tipped me over the edge into thinking "yes singer could possibly be scum with gratuitous replacement"

Vote: Honeybee

1. Blue blur voting grat slot
2. Pere V voting grat slot
3. Banana Frog voting grat slot
4. SCtH voting grat slot
5. Mastin voting grat slot
6. Triforce voting grat slot
7. Fire voting grat slot
8. Atum voting grat slot
9. Flubber voting grat slot
10. Gumball voting grat slot

nope, not a lynch yet. Thought Quoth was voting too, but they moved their vote to atum.

Carry on.

[Banana Frog]

You didn't even offer it originally as something you really wanted to follow up on.

Yes I did

I have to leave. I'll give you what I got when I get back.

[Banana Frog]

Some of my things on singer I cannot make a case on because ongoing, regrettably.

Anyway - the first part of my case starts with Persivul. He and I have a lot of history together, and I said I'd take my time to sort him out because it would be come apparent to me with time if he was town or scum. Well, unfortunately he replaced out, but in what little time he was here, he wasn't trying to figure out the game or figure out alignments as much as normal. It's a super strong town tell for persivul to actively try to figure out the game. He's really bad as scum, and he just wasn't displaying his town game here.

For example

Banana

- did I mention I don't like hydras? 135 - the response to elusive seemed natural and what I would expect from my limited experience with plot. Are you going to do the + and - charts in this game? Probably tough with 21 people.

that came off as scum afraid that Plot was going to do the patented +/- thing. He also was really combative in a nonconstructive way, which again, unusual for him. He argued a bunch of stupid technicalities (see 427 about arguing the definition of "taking shit" with Maxwell) which is again him not figuring out the game. Anyway - he reads like someone who drew scum, wasn't enthusiastic about it, and wanted to site flake and did. How do I know it's scum and not just site flaking in general? Because he had another town game ongoing at the time that was the only game he stayed in, and he actively tried to solve the game until it ended (Farside's dating game (which ironically came down to LyLo with

myself, Persivul, Titus, and Constantine

).

Also - some stuff oversoul said pinged me about oversoul and persivul, so I didn't want to push there yet, because I do a lot of preflip associatives which everyone in the world tells me is dumb and bad, but I don't give a shit because I do it anyway. I wanted to draw out that preflip associative a bit more without them knowing I was suspecting them.

Anwyay - he replaced out. Singer replaced in and I cannot expand upon her replace in any further, but I'll just say it left me pretty sure I was right about Persivul.

Now, continue on to singers play. She made some catch up posts, she pushed for a policy on Elusive. Yep. All fine. But when she got to her reads lists

I can't tell if Bulb is scum or massively shortsighted/newb. Does anyone have any experience with him?

Also, I know I'm only on page 16+recent posts, but right now I'd be ok with an Atum, Firebringer, TBB, or mastin lynch.

Any lurkers would also be acceptable: Grib, Gratuitous, ZZZX, PV, PB...all have under 25 posts. q_q

I don't see how this could be a reasonable townsperson list. Drizzx slot is town, which I was pretty strongly feeling at the time (and I still think so now, but not as strong given what happened at night), Grib is basically conftown in my mind based off that ridiculous flashwagon attempt. Mastin, TBB, and Fire are town reads of mine. I'm less sure about the rest.

Anyway - my theory at the time was Oversoul, Drizzx, Singer were all scum together, because I've seen singer, as town, push ZZZX hard before when he lurks and does fuck all, but she basically mentioned it in passing. So I thought maybe they were scum together, and she just threw him in the lurker list. Instead, I think she probably is just scum and didn't want to press the issue and is now pressing the drizzx issue based off the night activity.

Now to the oversoul interactions...

I think Persivul is town. His frustration with the game seems legitimate.

This is silly. His frustration with mafia scum is legitimate, and in this game particular to me it seemed like Pers was frustrated by drawing scum, or it's possible he was just frustrated with the game state in general. But

oversoul makes no attempt to explain how it's alignment indicative

(by saying it legitimate).

Legitimate frustration isn't a town tell.

I think he was legitimiately frustrated he drew scum.

Spoiler: oversoul post 1226

I see literally no downside to policy lynching elusive at this point, especially if it means players like PB would stay in the game instead.

Not to add fuel to the fire, but I disagree with this.

You're saying we should get rid of mean, active players so that not mean, less active players can play.
In a different game, PB would be under the spotlight of a policy lynch for his play.
This is quite *popcorn*

OMG YES.

AP/Oversoul, I specifically want to know how you feel about my comparison to Wisdom with elusive, and how both of their actions were scum motivated. Do you agree? If not, why?

Now that I am more familiar with what you are talking about, I still don't necessarily see it.

Wisdom and MS had an agenda to shit on the game. I could definitely see the agenda when they posted. Then again, I knew about that ahead of time. That was just how they both played as scum in recent games (TM and Pokemon).
When I look at Elusive's posts, I don't really see an agenda? I was so wrong about Titus in Signs and Void that I am willing to follow you on this. Although I am waiting for the other hat to drop in my games with you...

It is only a matter of time before you're scum in a game with me Singer. I don't want it to happen. :c

Singer, talk to me about Banana Frog

But you are still scum.

Wait, seriously?

Yes. Perse was scummy. What was the need of a site flake?

Are you even listening to yourself right now?

First of all "site flake" is the very definition of null and not alignment indicative so how you're trying to read anything from that is beyond me.

Second of all...well I don't care was perse did but did you even read anything that just transpired over the last few pages? Because I feel like you didn't.

This sounds like me and Tammy when we are town

and people do not see that. Especially after we feel that we have done enough town things to be a universal town read.

But, I don't know if Singer up to this point did enough town things to warrant such an action? In totality, I think this post is more likely to come from town Singer given her rapid response.

I just noticed there is a p in Triforces avatar.

Singer might be the SK but we can X that bridge later.

Interesting leap there
Why?

This whole post had scum interaction alarm bells flying off in my head.

First oversoul benignly disagrees with singer about a policy lynch (and then later asks singer to give examples of her policy lynching).

Then "It is only a matter of time before you're scum in a game with me Singer. I don't want it to happen. :c"

Then "This sounds like me and Tammy when we are town" in reference to singer's post 945, but then Oversoul says they don't know if its more likely to come from town singer or not.

Then a tame questioning of Quoth about the leap to singer being SK.


Anyway - Oversoul is familiar with singer's badass towngame so the fact that Oversoul is unsure if something will come from town singer or not seems odd.




Finally...Also this progression by singer is super awkward

Spoiler:

I can't tell if Bulb is scum or massively shortsighted/newb. Does anyone have any experience with him?

Also, I know I'm only on page 16+recent posts, but right now I'd be ok with an Atum, Firebringer, TBB, or mastin lynch.

Any lurkers would also be acceptable: Grib, Gratuitous, ZZZX, PV, PB...all have under 25 posts. q_q

@mod...can we get a votecount?

I'll vote for whichever wagon's bigger.

TBB is still scum.

Surprise surprise.

I really don't think Kling is scum, but I am willing to vote her just to end this day so I can focus my attention somewhere.

this is STILL your mindset? really?

Unvote
Vote: Oversoul

I really don't think Kling is scum, but I am willing to vote her just to end this day so I can focus my attention somewhere.

this is STILL your mindset? really?

Unvote
Vote: Oversoul

Oversoul?

Are you fucking serious?

JFC

That's a terrible reason to vote Oversoul, especially since I'm of the same mindset.

(minus the alignment part...I'm pretty meh on any of the wagons right now alignment-wise, except both seem slightly more town than scum?)

I really don't think Kling is scum, but I am willing to vote her just to end this day so I can focus my attention somewhere.

this is STILL your mindset? really?

Unvote
Vote: Oversoul

Like really? THERE ARE TWO FUCKING L-3 WAGONS, ONE IS ATLEAST CONFSCUM BASED ON HOW NO ONE HAS HAMMERED OR SHIFTED.

THAT IS WHY YOU ARE SCUM.

I really don't think Kling is scum, but I am willing to vote her just to end this day so I can focus my attention somewhere.

this is STILL your mindset? really?

Unvote
Vote: Oversoul

Like really? THERE ARE TWO FUCKING L-3 WAGONS, ONE IS ATLEAST CONFSCUM BASED ON HOW NO ONE HAS HAMMERED OR SHIFTED.

THAT IS WHY YOU ARE SCUM.

This is a really shallow and binary way of looking at this. Somehow I'm not surprised this is the position you're taking.

No vote yet singer?

Gratuitous

(8): Quoth The Pidgeon, Flubbernugget, Prolapsed Brain, Firebringer, The Blue Blur, Muffin, Bulbazoor, TriforceP

Klingoncelt

(8): Atum, PeregrineV, Grib, pisskop, MaxwellPuckett, mastin2, Banana Frog, DRizzx

The Blue Blur

(2): singersigner, LittleGumball

PeregrineV

(1): Oversoul

Bulbazoor

(1): Gratuitous

Grib

(1): Klingoncelt

Theres atleast 1 scum off the dueling wagons, give me Grat for sure and probably Gumball.

Personally, I'm looking more at singer than Gumball. Grat/Kling staying off of each other, though, is certainly interesting. It does

vaguely

support the idea of it being dueling scum-scum wagons.

In actual news,

Persival looked really really town when replacing out though, why Im hesitent on Singerscum.

Even though all her posts have TBB is scum in them.

I didn't see a vote count. It's hard to look back at these things on my phone.

Preview Edit:
Oh ew, I don't like either of those wagons.

vote: Klingon

More of my town reads...maybe less of a shitty options?

- The reads list of who they'd lynch (which doesn't include kling)
- I'll vote for grat or kling, whichever wagon is bigger
- Gumball votes oversoul because oversoul will vote kling despite townreading kling
- TBB gets mad
- Singer thinks gumball's reason is dumb because she is of the same mindset as oversoul
- singer chastises TBB for chastising Gumball (singer thinks TBB is looking at the wagons in a binary way)
- TBB tells singer she hasn't voted
- TBB shows the wagons
- singer votes




I can show more on oversoul as well, like his crap progression on kling, but I have shit to take care of right now.

[Banana Frog]

like, it's amazing how grat was in singer's lynch list and kling wasn't

then at double L-3 she says she'd hop on the larger wagon (they were the same size)

then she votes kling, even though grat was on her list and kling wasnt.

does anyone not see that!

[Banana Frog]

I agree. I'm not trying to lynch singer today. Grat is the lynch. But she asked me to discuss her (and so did Sala), and so I am.

[Banana Frog]

so anyway - grat, oversoul, singer are three of the scums IMO.

I thought for a bit late on D1 that drizzx might be with singer even though I was townreading drizzx because paranoia, but it's clear drizzx and singer are either in some crazy world tvt of different alignments. they aren't both groupscum (and drizzx can't be sk, obv).

[Banana Frog]

I'm not going into things I can't talk about. I just said there are things I can't talk about. That's the last I'm going to say on that topic.

Also, I'm not holding your lack of playing for a week against you. That's not any part of my argument at all.

[Banana Frog]

This is also why I dislike playing mafia with you, because I really don't like getting cursed at by my SIL yes, it RL affects me.

[Banana Frog]

if grat flips town, my head is going to explode. I'll be totally lost...as usual. It'll be like refraction all over again.

[Banana Frog]

I'd imagine that the only way I'd ever be caught as scum is if I'm anywhere near lylo, to be honest.

Or if somebody got a guilty on you, but yeah.

[Banana Frog]

This what I'm saying, though. If you don't see the difference between the types of games I play and when I play them, you're being blind to the bigger picture.

I really must be, because I'm thinking about it and I'm not connecting the dots, sorry

[Banana Frog]

<3

[Banana Frog]

I'll chew on it for a bit. Need to get ready to take wifey in.

[Banana Frog]

Drizzx - I doubt there will be two days of twilight. There were only 4ish hours after the D1 lynch so I'm assuming that means there is a judge.

[Banana Frog]

Whaaaattttt

[Banana Frog]

Oh I see.

Wow

[Banana Frog]

Ok yeah. Assuming Grat slot flips scum we'll probably be NK'd. Town will know the next two scum to go after.

[Banana Frog]

Holy fuck what is going on.

Singer, how would you know quoth didn't post in the away for 24 hours? So you jailed the claimed vig?????

And you shot SalaSonic?

[Banana Frog]

away = QT autocorrected

[Banana Frog]

Sala how do you know singer shot you?

[Banana Frog]

Or do you mean scum in general?

[Banana Frog]

Why singer specifically?

[Banana Frog]

I don't know if she could have both jailed Quoth AND shot you.

[Banana Frog]

Exactly.

Although it would explain her scumread on drizzx.

I do not believe singer specifically shot SalaSonic if her soft claim is true (even if she's scum jailkeeper, not sure Titus allows two night actions)

[Banana Frog]

Quoth didn't claim vig...

Also, confirmed scum, I definitely didn't shoot anyone last night because I JKed my biggest town read. Where did Quoth claim vig???

Yes, I'll pull it up

[Banana Frog]

I was thinking about this too, but then I remembered my BEES game where all the flashwagons went from one town to another town.

Mastin, the more I read ^these^ posts the more I want to use my vigilante role on this tonight.

[Banana Frog]

why is that guaranteed scum Constantine?

[Banana Frog]

How?

The wiki says

1 town killing
2 town protective
3 town anything

Why can't quoth be the killing and drizzx/singer be the town anythings, for example?

[Banana Frog]

So the wiki says to reroll the setup if scum get 2 or more of the same role for certain roles, but not all roles.

It doesn't say anything about rerolling the setup for two or more of the same town roles or some of the other scum roles

[Banana Frog]

It's entirely possible singer is town, hence her paranoia about the drizzx claim.

I'm not sold because of all the other things, but to say she is confscum is wrong IMO

[Banana Frog]

How is it highly unlikely? It's just as likely if she rolled one of the random 3 roles that she got her claimed role as any other town role

[Banana Frog]

Random means the probability of it is the same as the probability of everything else!

I'm a fucking statistician

[Banana Frog]

The propability is next to impossible. Psychotic Neighborizing Jailkeeper was a role clearly designed by the mod specifically intended for this game.

Do you really think both Singer

AND

Drixx rolled Psychotic Neighborizing Jailkeeper?

I will go do some remedial statistics for you when I get to a computer.

[Banana Frog]

pisskop, you missed singer confirming that quoth didn't post for 24 hours, which wasn't known to anyone but quoth

Stahp and read the thread first

[Banana Frog]

Frog, there is a difference between unlikely and possible. I believe it is possible for Singer to have that role, but I already know your statistics are going to prove it is unlikely.

Wrong.

Having repeated power roles is (when I get to the statistics I'm guessing is) statistically MORE likely than to not have repeated power roles.

[Banana Frog]

pisskop, you missed singer confirming that quoth didn't post for 24 hours, which wasn't known to anyone but quoth

Stahp and read the thread first

you're right she is totally town because she can recount events.

I never said that made her town. I'm still scum reading her.

I'm saying your point is wrong.

[Banana Frog]

Sorry, thought I was still in hydra. Forgot I switched from computer to phone.

Because its literally confirmed to be one?

wrong

Third Party Killers
Arsonist, Mass Murderer, Riddler, Serial Killer

Ok...I'm actually starting to lean singer away from scum to null now, constantine town (but misguided), and sonic to null. I think my reads will solidify depending on grat's flip.

If grat flips scum, then I guess I'm sticking with my singer scum read. But this twilight wifom has me starting to feel better and better about singer and worse and worse about salasonic.

It's possible for 5 protective roles people. Unlikely, but possible. Three is not unlikely. Two are guaranteed, and one of the three anything roles to be a protective is also likely.

It amazes me how much people can't understand the setup possibilities.

[Banana Frog]

Yeah, I'm worried with the twilight WIFOM/speculation that honeybee will flip town. I'm already re-evaluating the game now because I think it's quite possible singer really is town JK, which may or may not change my associative on you.

Who are you scumreading?

[Banana Frog]

I have literally no idea. Probably Blue Blur if I had a vig shot. Kinda mad that Drizzx didn't shoot someone. That role is too OP to not just shoot people. :shrug:

Drizzx did try to shoot someone. He was forced to by his role. But someone must have roleblocked him. Or protected constantine.

Wait...what if at night scum!constantine relayed to scum that he was in this QT with drizzx, and told scum to roleblock drizzx or protect constantine?

hmm.

So much WIFOM. Titus is probably loving this.

[Banana Frog]

VOTE: Honey Bee

HEY SINGER NICE SHOT.

ALSO BULBA IS NEAR CONFIRMED SCUM JUDGE AND SHOULD BE JAILED TONIGHT. THATS IS ALL.

~Sally

I agree, but how would voting honey bee get anything accomplished? Judge Bulba would still just let the lynch not happen.

VOTE: bulbazoor

[Banana Frog]

Posting to say that we also didn't get singer's role pm last night.


I think we're dealing in absolutes too much; the judge doesn't have to be scum, they could just have disagreed with the lynch (though I think denying us of flips at this point is severely antitown). They could also be scum. It would have been nice to hear from honey bee before lynching them because I think replacements should always have a chance to talk but they don't seem to have any interest in participating in this game whatsoever since they didn't post at all yesterday and still haven't posted toDay so it seems they don't care to. I'm fine with trying to lynch them again.

Another absolute is that I don't think it follows 100% that bulba is the judge but he could well be. We did our own setup spec during the night phase about who might be the judge and came to a different answer (we were approaching it differently; not based on who was posting but based on who was on what wagon on day 1/day 2) and we weren't making assumptions about the alignment of the judge. Maybe we're right, maybe we're wrong; who knows. Could it be that easy that judge is one of the people who voted for klingon and not for honey bee? could it be that easy that judge is one of the people who didn't post in twilight? *shrug*

i'm just wary of anyone thinking 100% that they know something is true because we're all setup speccing in our own little corners and even if everything were laid out on the table i still don't think we'd be able to solve it. it's so tempting to want to solve a game that way but this is a really confusing setup even though it's open because there are so many variables and also the first large i was in we lost it because setup spec ignored a possibility. there's always something we don't think of.


Also the night phase was too long and neither frogger nor I are really feeling it and there were some people I'd wanted to talk to about various things (mastina, quoth, singer) but I'm going through a rough patch and not sure if I even want to be poking my head out of the hydra pt yet or not but frogger hasn't posted so i thought I might as well, but the two of us talked some last night and I don't remember how to have fun at playing mafia but we're going to start posting frog and slug pictures again like we promised in the sign up thread, just in case anyone else is sad.



tl;dr: let's just scumhunt like normal or something. i've been paying attention to this game somewhat but not enough to actually care who we lynch but bee/bulba/maybesinger idk.

--P

[Banana Frog]

oh, he did post. oh well, whatever. now i've posted too. hi.

--P

[Banana Frog]

VOTE: bee

--p

[Banana Frog]

i agree with hermit for once except for the problem where we don't know who the judge is we only have guesses (my guess was oversoul because wagons.)

the judge should totally claim so we could lynch them, though

pedit: is it one shot? that's good then.

--p

[Banana Frog]

if it's not one shot then what do they have to lose from trying it again? we don't know who they are so they can do whatever the fuck they want. :/

*looks*

Judge

You can make a lynch into a no lynch, or a no lynch into a lynch onto any living player in the game but yourself. You cannot do this to your own lynch.

so nothing about one shot. meh.

what's stopping them from doing it again and again and only letting town lynches go through, though?

pedit: @sala

--P

[Banana Frog]

@hermit

Scum Anything

Actress, Agent, Amnesiac, Big Brother (1-shot), Bulletproof, Bus Driver, Commuter, Consort, Day-Vig (1 shot), Dirty Old Bastard, Doctor, Drug Dealer, Encryptor, Framer, Jailor (Mafiascum normal variant),

Judge

, Neighborizer, Neighborizing Psychotic Jailkeeper, Overzealous Bartender, Pretender, Rolecop, Stalker, Strongman Messenger, Tracker, Watcher

it can town or scum. it's being used in antitown way, so.

--p

[Banana Frog]

@singer a while back you were talking about being frustrated by not being town read since Ori because your scum game has improved and I wasn't able to interact with people at the time but belatedly I wanted to say that I also haven't been easily townread as town since n1615 and it's surprising at first and I'm still struggling to get used to it and I find it pretty frustrating but maybe it'll get better?

The first time it happened to me I ended up tunnelling the person who was doing it because I thought they were just scared of my towngame when I should have read between the lines and realised that the backup moderator for n1615 would be scared of my scumgame not my towngame but anyway I didn't so we had a TvT and I "won" in the sense that I got them lynched but it was a TvT so there really wasn't a winner just a survivor.

So if you're town and you're going through that in this game then yeah it sucks and if you're scum then it still kinda sucks because you only get easily townread the first time your scumgame is good, the second time people know to be wary.

This has been an olive branch or an attempt at empathy or something.

--P

[Banana Frog]

also need another of these



--P

[Banana Frog]

@singer: <3

--P

[Banana Frog]

Wait, I think I confused myself. Whose Lynch was blocked again? Ugh, I'm tired.

honey bee's. and singer keeps jailing the vig. and the judge seems to be unlimited so they're just not going to let a lynch through on one of their buddies. in this situation, looking for wagon resistance doesn't matter at all because why resist your buddy's wagon when you can just veto it? why build a counterwagon to your buddy when you know the lynch won't go through anyway? normal scumhunting along vca lines like that isn't going to help in this situation.

we need to just try to lynch whoever the town can agree on that isn't honey bee or singer until we manage to lynch the scum judge, then we can go back to mop up the people the scum judge didn't let through, if we still think they're scummy and not just people the judge tied themselves to.


--P

[Banana Frog]

1) post in your hydra
2) it says nothing about can't judge the same person twice on the wiki so do you have extra information about the scum judge's rolepm you want to share with the rest of us?

--P

[Banana Frog]

Judge

You can make a lynch into a no lynch, or a no lynch into a lynch onto any living player in the game but yourself. You cannot do this to your own lynch.

--P

[Banana Frog]

i want to share with you that shut the fuck up and lynch honey bee again

if the scum judge can overturn any lynch in the game then it applies for all players, then why even play?

i feel the same way but that seems to be the game that we are playing. look, i'm willing to vote bee but if the lynch is vetoed again will you listen to me about the idea that town needs to work together to hunt down the scumjudge and we have to get rid of them first?

umm if theres a shitty role like that then we need to call the vigs to eliminate those scumfuck

where are our vigs?

singer keeps jailing the vig.

--P

[Banana Frog]

singer keeps jailing the vig.

and this is a good argument for scumSinger, though the vig seems intent on shooting us instead of bee so I guess I appreciate singer helping us out though I'm a little paranoid she's tying herself to us. The vig's case on me seems to be primarily that I wasn't playing day 1 in this game in the same manner that I was playing battlestar galactica on day 7 (in which I had a side goal of seeing how quickly i could town up a heavily scumread slot i'd just replaced into and get nightkilled and the answer was 6 real life days.), so I'd like to have a word with him about burden of proficiency.

--P

[Banana Frog]

Frog head of hydra V/LA until end of Monday

-Frog

[Banana Frog]

Judge

You can make a lynch into a no lynch, or a no lynch into a lynch onto any living player in the game but yourself. You cannot do this to your own lynch.

--P

@PB: the judge can't overturn their own lynch according to the wiki.

@Warped I see your questions in 2647 but i'm just getting back into the game after an extended v/la and my other head wrote 1740 but he'll answer when he gets back in a couple days and i'll take a stab at it too when i have reads I'm confident in again.

--P

[Banana Frog]

@Farside: nothing. which is why we should be hunting the scum judge instead of trying to repeat yesterday.

--P

[Banana Frog]

would be happy to switch to bulba, or possibly oversoul (need to reread, this is more setup spec on who might be the judge than anything + he tends to be less active as scum) or hermit (policy; would rather vote for a scumread).

pedit: why would titus modify someone's role pm after the game starts, sonic. i'm starting to townread you but wtf.

pedit: @farside: hermit and triforce are drunk.

--P

[Banana Frog]

@sonic i meant that on day 3 titus isn't going to retroactively change the way the judge works. all 3 modifiers have been accounted for (Drixx, triforce, hermit) so i don't know what you're talking about modifiers.

I also think you are confusing me with someone else; I don't remember pushing anything along those lines. just went back and looked at page 88 when the modkill happened and it wasn't me.

but if this lynch doesn't go through either then you will be a meek little sonic tomorrow and will listen to me about needing to hunt the judge instead of trying to lynch the same person again and again.

--P

[Banana Frog]

Hi Sally,
you will be a meek little sally too if i'm right <3

Yes we were wrong, twilight 2 lasted a lot longer than twilight 1 did. perhaps the scum team were trying to figure out whether to let the lynch go through or not. we didn't even start thinking the judge might be scum until toDay, last night our setup spec on who might be the judge was based entirely on who was townreading/scumreading who.

--P

[Banana Frog]

i doubt that both neighbourising psychotic jailkeepers were town, especially since one of them has been jailing the vig.

Bulba's at L-10 but I'd like to see him claim too.

--P

[Banana Frog]

Why is everyone claiming

to help the scum figure out who to nightkill, clearly.

(i don't think everyone is, though. but yeah, too many roflclaims, which is a pet peeve of mine because I like replacing into games and it's irritating when my predecessor has already claimed.)

--P

[Banana Frog]

Great news that the lynch will go through!



--P

[Banana Frog]

@Mod: I need to extend V/LA one day further to tomorrow.

Plotty, please pick this up thank you!

<3

[Banana Frog]

We claimed vig?

:S

This is news to me.

Mastin, the more I read ^these^ posts the more I want to use my vigilante role on this tonight.

you roleclaimed in this post.

--P

[Banana Frog]

AP wasn't being serious.

Obviously.

asdfjklé

it wasn't obvious to me and believing he was town vig has been a part of my townread on him.

--P

[Banana Frog]

ok. i believe you. (and constantine's posts aren't worth reading so i skip them, his predecessor was town, he's probably town too, would policy lynch if i didn't have other scumreads but i do so i won't.)

I'm probably still townreading you because it wasn't the sole basis for that read it was just a piece of it. it's just one of the things i thought i knew about the game state has turned out to not be the case and i need to figure out how that affects my other reads, too. like if you were the town vig then it was scummy of singer to be jailkeeping you because it prevents you from using your vig shot but if you're not the town vig and you're just singer's top townread then it's not scummy of her to be protecting you. so it affects my read on singer's slot too. and that in turn will probably affect my other reads, but in a more tenuous way because that's too many steps removed.

--P

[Banana Frog]

The fuck is this game. Hardly any flips to work with. Ugh.

Also keep trying to nightkill us scumteam, that's been working so well for you so far. You might just be stuck with us!


I think we did, Constantine. Your target was a pretender. Wiki says that can be either a scum role or a town role.

Pretender

At the start of each night, you'll get a new role. This role PM cannot be blocked and is determined pregame. Even if a neighborizing psychotic jailkeeper jails you, you will get a role PM you cannot use. You will not receive any one shot ability (including Stalker, Big Brother, Amnesiac and Wagon Sensor).

Also, looking through our PMs seems we got Triforce's result the previous night, just frogger must have picked up the PM so I didn't notice it before. Triforce I can give you your result for night 2 whenever you like if you tell me who you targetted (it is not an interesting result though), or I can save it for later after you feel like claiming.

--P

[Banana Frog]

Quoth, someone tried to kill us last night, and it was probably the scumteam.

Why are we wagonning triforce?

--P

[Banana Frog]

Right...

Unless a vig wants to claim that they tried to shoot us?

--P

[Banana Frog]

@The Blue Blur

lol, I don't even remember defending honeybee. I did want to hear from them because I like to hear from replacements but they had plenty of chances to talk if they wanted to and they never did.

That's a really shallow approach to the game that everyone who isn't 100% sure that scum are scum is scum themselves.

Anyway if I were scum I'd probably be enjoying this game more than I am. I hate being all by myself.

I agree with some of those reads though.

Quoth is denying they're a vig though and they don't seem to mind that singer keeps jailkeeping them which is interesting. I don't see what singer jailkeeping quoth has to do with the lack of kills when we were shot last night so whoever shot us wasn't jailkept. + if quoth is groupscum they are either scum together with singer who is jailkeeping them and would thus send somebody else out to do the killing or they are not scum with singer in which case they still know that singer keeps jailkeeping them and probably won't stop so they'd send out another person to do the kill right? your logic isn't making sense to me. There's stuff I want to talk to quoth about but I'm not ready to scumread them.

But it worries me that you're taking a very shallow and simplistic view of the gamestate because when I'm scum I like to go through and see which townies "tied" themselves to my buddy and then go after them for it. I do that when I'm town too (or I will once I no longer have the attention span of a gnat) but when I'm town it's harder because I actually have to sort the townies who were being wrong about their reads (which is most people because the only people who can be 100% accurate if they want to be are the ones that have it written in their role pms who the scum are. the rest of us are fumbling around in the dark) from the scum.

Also, bussing is a thing that exists and it worries me that you don't seem to be aware of that.

pedit: you guys talk too much.

--P

[Banana Frog]

why would the SK help us out and kill Constantine? Like I'm sure he's annoying the SK too but having constantine alive just helps scum wincon because it spreads apathy and scum are not going to help us with this problem.

VOTE: Constantine

--P

[Banana Frog]

also, why are you talking about the SK specifically with regard to constantine. why aren't you complaining that the mafia won't kill him? because you think Quoth is the SK? but Quoth unclaimed vig...

pedit @Blue Blur: right but we can't modkill lurkers because we're not the mod and Titus has asked us not to ask for people to be modkilled so we shouldn't take this line of approach.

pedit @Blue Blur I'm happy with lynching any of the people (except farside) that you mention in 2882.

--P

[Banana Frog]

UNVOTE: Constantine thank fuck maybe the replacement will be readable.

VOTE: ronit (Bulba's replacement)

--P

[Banana Frog]

BTW, my role was confirmed by frog, so go ahead and cop me to prove I am town.

that's true, i can confirm that somebody at least is a drunk rolecop and occam's razor says it's probably constantine. the wiki says rolecop can be town or scum, though.

--P

[Banana Frog]

How haven't you picked up on this yet?

I haven't been reading most of the day. The first time I saw this was Constantine going on about a vigilante or something.

We claimed vig?

:S

This is news to me.

Mastin, the more I read ^these^ posts the more I want to use my vigilante role on this tonight.

you roleclaimed in this post.

--P

AP wasn't being serious.

Obviously.

And before I hear the cascades of "it wasn't obvious," the thing Constantine quoted

makes

it obvious. If AP

already seriously claimed

he wouldn't need to consult me about anything.

X|

yes.

--P

[Banana Frog]

i don't even know anymore, mastina. I really don't. everything's noise in this game. Ronit's new enough player though, that'll make it easier to sort him.

Grat only has 26 posts in his ISO though. It's not enough for numbers to say definitive things because every small thing gets magnified in an ISO that small. But when it's not 1am i'll try to see if i can find anything anyway.

While your here, I've been meaning to ask you to re-metadive me because at the time I only had 1 completed scum game and I have a bunch now and I don't think your assessment of my scum meta is at all accurate, but I was v/la and I didn't know how to respond without compromising myself elsewhere.

--P

[Banana Frog]

+ with the judge mechanic if the judge was a scum judge then i'm not sure why they would bother making a counterwagon if they knew it wasn't going to go through the first time. seems like a great opportunity to fuck with vca and make the counterwagon also be on scum so that people will clear them or to not start a counterwagon at all and let a townie do it or something.

--P

[Banana Frog]

asdfjkléawáhpwahgawágjwapágaúwgoawjgpoáawhnawoáprhjawoá

No take backsies!

pedit @Hermit: I don't know whether you're town or scum. I do know that you're making the game less fun and that you're helping scum wincon whether you're scum or not. And that if you /also/ are not having in fun in this game and would be happier elsewhere then you should replace out because it's just a game on the internet and if you're not enjoying it and you're not getting paid for it then why are you doing it?

--P

[Banana Frog]

DISTRACTED FROM WHAT?

FROM LYNCHING SCUM?

THE JUDGE IS PROBABLY SCUM.

LET'S LYNCH THEM!

--P

[Banana Frog]

fair enough. I'll agree to stop talking about what we don't like about each other.

But please do tell us who the judge is so we can vote them.

--P

[Banana Frog]

You have no idea how hard i am trying not to flake on all of my hydra partners right now.

singer, yeah salamance is irritating too. I find them differently irritating though. They're hard because their slot is so full of gibberish and noise that it gives me a headache just trying to read their posts.

Hermit, Why don't you think the judge is scum? Why is Quoth confirmed third party?

--P

[Banana Frog]

We were not told their identity. The results say "your target". That's why I told TriForce I wanted to know who he targeted if he wanted to know his night 2 results.

VOTE: Constantine

--P

[Banana Frog]

So many things to reply to... But on mobile...
1) Sal? Sonic? Fine. Good job finding scum. Don't let it get to your head now
2) My N2 was Constantine. Talk to me Frogs.
3) BB, they weren't confscum FOR THE LAST FUCKING TIME. I almost wish he wasn't so that it wouldn't go to your head. Of course, since they were right, chances are they're not scum (sadly). Some people didn't want Honey lynched so that they'd talk.
4) The Judge is not confscum. As long as we learn who it is soon, I think it's wise for Constantine to hide their identity.
5) Why are we wagoning me again? You guys never answered that.
6) Why do you think the pretender is the judge?
7) While you weren't talking to me... Right back atcha TBB (whichever you are)
A live town is a good town. And why shouldn't they be replaced? Why have so many town die instead of maybe having them become helpful and non-lurky?
Pedit: Connie, he was talking about you.
Ppedit: STOP FREAKING POSTING YOU GUYS AND LET ME TALK

2. Then Constantine neither went anywhere nor was visited by anybody that night. If he's group scum then he didn't do the kill. But that's really interesting because he said he rolecopped singer that night and yet nobody got singer's role pm and he was making a big stink about that on day 3. Then last night he actually did drunk rolecop someone and got pretender. I'm willing to trust you over Constantine.

5. I have no idea why you're being wagonned.

--P

[Banana Frog]

constantine is caught in a lie. he said he drunk rolecopped singer and he didn't. choo choo

--P

[Banana Frog]

You were already voting me, but whatever. Find your two votes on me without explanation suspicious.

What is your justification now? Last time it was policy lynch.

i'd switched to ronit temporarily but i'd rather lynch you instead. At the time I voted you the second time it was because of the judge thing, I wanted you to out who you think the judge is because they're probably scum. But now it's also because you said you rolecopped singer and you didn't go anywhere on night 2 which is the night you allegedly rolecopped her and I can't make up my mind if you did that to tie yourself to her (which would make her town) or if you did that because you're scum together but it doesn't matter because I think you're scum either way.

So I am voting you because:

• I forgot to wotc you
  
• you lied about singer
  
• you're not telling us who the judge is
  
• you're not being a team player
  
• scum are never ever going to nightkill you not even if you're an innocent child and lynching people that scum want to leave around for LYLO is good.
  
• there's no such thing as too scummy to be scum and I think you're probably scum.
  
• I've heard that you're trollier as scum and lurkier as town.
  
• probably some more things that i can't remember because it's 2am.

--P

[Banana Frog]

No one ended up getting the results for singer or what? o_O

It's more complicated than that!

Nobody got rolecop results for singer, and it was speculated that whoever was scum with singer had got the results and was withholding them. This was seen as an argument for Constantine being town and for singer being scum with somebody.

But we got results from a drunk tracker-watcher hybrid type thing that we couldn't even find on the wiki that said our target didn't go anywhere and was not visited by anybody, but frogger picked up the PM and I didn't notice it until I picked up the day start PM and the night results PM today and saw there were other PMs in our inbox that had been already read.

It turned out that Triforce is the drunk tracker-watcher-thing and that he targetted Constantine on night 2. Constantine went nowhere on night 2 (the night he allegedly rolecopped singer) and was visited by nobody on night 2. That means he didn't really rolecop singer he just said that he did. And why would he do that? To make singer look bad and make himself look good.

Then Constantine really did rolecop someone last night because we got his results; whoever he targetted was a pretender. But the night before he didn't target anyone he just pretended to target someone.

--P

[Banana Frog]

Also, looking through our PMs seems we got Triforce's result the previous night, just frogger must have picked up the PM so I didn't notice it before. Triforce I can give you your result for night 2 whenever you like if you tell me who you targetted (it is not an interesting result though), or I can save it for later after you feel like claiming.

--P

When I said "it is not an interesting result though" I was crumbing to triforce that his target hadn't gone anywhere or been visited by anybody in case he didn't want to out what his role was. But then he said his target was constantine and that made the "didn't go anywhere" result interesting.

--P

[Banana Frog]

drunk means that the results are sent to somebody else. do i need to go through your ISO to all the posts where you were asking who got singer's role PM?

--P

[Banana Frog]

Frog, I seriously don't understand what you are getting at.

You keep saying I lied about rolecopping singer, but I did rolecop singer.

Unless Triforce is lying about who he targetted, and I see no reason for him to lie about that, you did not go anywhere on night 2 and you were not visited by anybody on night 2. Night 2 is the night that you pretended to rolecop singer.

--P

[Banana Frog]

Or I suppose redirector is possible too. uggh. setup spec is hard let's go back to scumhunting.

Constantine, you also have the drunk modifier why don't you know how your own role pm works...

pedit: towncred. you needed it sorely. or you thought that you'd eventually get her lynched and that she'd flip scum.

--P

[Banana Frog]

@constanine. Also, I spent 53 pages deathtunnelling my scumbuddy in n1615 (i was actually sincerely trying to get him lynched but people kept thinking it was a TvT for some reason), and then I lynched the people that resisted his wagon and won. so I'm the wrong person to ask what the scum motivation for bussing is.

--P

[Banana Frog]

I read it the way Flubber did. Stupidity isn't alignment indicative.

--P

[Banana Frog]

Sala, have you forgotten your hydra password?

--P

[Banana Frog]

singer, honey bee flipped scum. they're dead and they're scum. They were a scum drug dealer.

I can relate to the rest though. just put them on ignore and interact with the fun people.

--P

[Banana Frog]

The ninja theory is also a good one. It could also be that for some reason my night action didn't go through, but I don't think so since I sent Titus a PM with my action bolded. It worked for me last night.

If the correct explanation were a ninja, you'd know because you yourself would have the ninja modifier. Of course, if that were so, you wouldn't tell us because that'd be scumclaiming.

If someone could establish a motivation for why they believe I did not rolecop singer, then that would be a good start.

I think I've already done this but why not. I can think of several scenarios and I don't know which is right:

rampant speculation

Singer had been under some heat, from our slot and also from the blue blur and some other people maybe that I'm forgetting and too lazy to look back at their names. The scum team realises that there will probably be screaming from TBB until singer is lynched. Constantine, despite his drunk rolecop, is seen as more of a liability than an asset because town will lynch him eventually out of annoyance probably but in the meantime some towncred will help the situation. Constantine is coached into announcing that he has rolecopped singer and trying to get someone to claim they received his results. No one claims, because he didn't actually rolecop her.

The narrative is put forth that whoever received singer's role pm is lying scum, and probably scum together with singer BUT it could also be argued by somebody that the scum is withholding the results because it would clear singer. The entire thing feels rather disingenuous though because almost every single role can be either a scum role or a town role, so that nobody is towncleared or guilty based on what role they have unless their role PM is "Riddler" or "Ninja Drunk Rolecop" or whatnot. Thus scum have no reasons to hold back results on somebody because it neither clears them nor confscums them. Also her role is pretty much confirmed because she gets a QT with whoever she jailkeeps and people have reported being jailkept and getting a QT.

I also wonder if constantine may have thought that his results would look something like "town psychotic neighbourising jailkeeper" vs "mafia psychotic neighbourising jailkeeper" instead of just "psychotic neighbourising jailkeeper" and that may have been why he didn't rolecop her for real? The result we got last night was "pretender" not "town pretender" or "scum pretender".

The actual result of the "who got singer's role pm" theatre that we watched on day 3 was that most people grudgingly townread Constantine for it and people got a bit more suspicious of singer. And in light of that it makes me wonder if singer could actually be town and then Constantine could be trying to tie himself to her and make her look bad. There's scum motivation for that too!

And this entire thing is a distraction from Honey Bee. Which may have been the point.

--P

[Banana Frog]

Except for the fact that if I was scum, my role would've been "kidnapper" which was my whole misunderstanding on D2 when I didn't understand why anyone would bother wasting a role cop on a confirmable role. It's because there was fear that I wasn't a jailkeeper, but the scum equivalent of a kidnapper. I'm too tired to look for the conversation right now.

Anyway, my theory was that scum was withholding a clear result on me for ambiguity, but then it turned into Hermit just not doing it in order to et a clear on me, but then Triforce brought up the ninja modifier so matter-of-fairly it made me second guess

him

. It's like everyone has something to claim that could implicate someone else but could be fucked by someone else's results which we might not know about until we make the wrong choice anyway. Seriously. Fuck this game. It should really just be considered mountainous because the whole design is around mod entertainment, not the betterment of the players'. -_-

Right, but

Town Anything

Agent, Amnesiac, Big Brother (1-shot), Bulletproof, Commuter, Coroner, Cop, Day-Vig (1 shot), Dirty Old Bastard, Doctor, Escort, Gunsmith, Informed Townie, Jailor (Mafiascum normal variant), Judge, Neighborizer,

Neighborizing Psychotic Jailkeeper

, Overzealous Bartender, Pretender, Rolecop, Stalker, Strongman Messenger, Tracker, Vanilla Townie, Veteran, Vigilante, Wagon Sensor (1-shot), Watcher

Scum Anything

Actress, Agent, Amnesiac, Big Brother (1-shot), Bulletproof, Bus Driver, Commuter, Consort, Day-Vig (1 shot), Dirty Old Bastard, Doctor, Drug Dealer, Encryptor, Framer, Jailor (Mafiascum normal variant), Judge, Neighborizer,

Neighborizing Psychotic Jailkeeper,

Overzealous Bartender, Pretender, Rolecop, Stalker, Strongman Messenger, Tracker, Watcher

so you could be a kidnapper instead sure but there's no reason you couldn't be a town neighbourising psychotic jailkeeper or a scum neighbourising psychotic jailkeeper and the rolecop wouldn't distinguish between those so it's a pointless waste of a clear since if you'd come back as neighbourising psychotic jailkeeper then we still wouldn't know your alignment. We'd get a guilty on you if you were a Kidnapper I guess but that's about it.

And yeah this setup is frustrating and unfun, agree 100% let's just pretend it's mountainous and scumhunt like normal people.

--P

[Banana Frog]

Frog is back!

[Banana Frog]

Oh hey, Oversoul is finally posting a small bit. Still has been posting basically at the rate of a dead penguin the last few game days.

-Frog

[Banana Frog]

Anyone remember this?

Oversoul obvtown

explain please?

Oversoul hates playing scum. If he's posting at a rate that does not resemble a dead penguin, he's town.

As sad as this comparison is to my play, it is true. *nods head*

Well...since I made my case on singer/oversoul, Oversoul has been prodded and posted 16 times in 20 days (including the 2 posts on this page). That's approximate to the rate of a dead penguin.

[Banana Frog]

sonic is back!

hi frog!

<3

[Banana Frog]

Also, notice singer/oversoul again ended up off the honeybee wagon, on the elusive slot. Might be too obvious for them to be a scum team, but guaranteed at least one scum in there.

[Banana Frog]

I have literally no idea who to think is scum anymore. Was so wrong about Grat.

scumpost

[Banana Frog]

But yeah, when Honeybee flips town, I'll be over with my shades on sipping on a mojito.

would scum say this?

IDK...

We should probably sort singer/constantine then. It's theoretical they are TvT, it's possible one of them is scum. It's obvious they aren't both scum together.

Oversoul, believes Singer is town. Could be a WK, or could be defending a buddy, depending on how singer flips.

[Banana Frog]

But right now I'm not willing to give Oversoul the benefit of the doubt on their reads. They were off the honeybee wagon both times.

[Banana Frog]

I think frogger forgot to

VOTE: Oversoul

--P

[Banana Frog]

When Oversoul is scum, he posts at the rate of a dead penguin. that is to say, not very much and not of substance. like ika or anti.

Oversoul is posting at the rate of a dead penguin.

Therefore, oversoul is scum.

Also was defending honey bee and also we've been thinking for a while that he might be the scum judge because he was on the klingon wagon and that wagon went through and he was off the bee wagon both times and the bee wagon didn't go through because of the judge. + timing of posts in twilight too i think.

--P

[Banana Frog]

it's not a policy lynch. it's when you know a player and you know they play more like one way as scum and more like a different way as town then you can use that to help figure out if they're town or scum or not.

a policy lynch would be if you wanted to lynch everyone who is lurking; some people who are lurking could just always lurk no matter what whether they're town or scum (peregrinev). policy lynching peregrinev for lurking would be bad, you need to find some other way to read him, maybe how much he's contributing in spite of being a low volume poster (is it quality even though there is only a little) or which wincon he seems to be furthering or whatever.

similarly, policy lynching everybody who was off the honey bee wagon would be dumb because by definition of the way the hammer mechanic works, half of the players have to be off the wagon and we're only looking for 4 more group scum + 1 third party, so we'd lynch a lot of townies if we just indiscriminately lynched everyone who was off the wagon.



some players just aren't that good at being scum, and that makes them easier to catch. *shrug*

--P

[Banana Frog]

Maxi!

What do you think of oversoul?

[Banana Frog]

(frog)

[Banana Frog]

I like both the constantine and oversoul wagons; they offer the same combination of "scummy" + "policy lynch this", but with different amounts of each. Constantine still has more "scummy" in it than "policy lynch this" though. Plus a policy on shitposting > policy on lurking

Frog!

I could lynch Oversoul. Only thing stopping me is that I'd rather Firebringer go down, considering their vote-post on Oversoul.

If the lurking meta is as clear-cut as ika's, there's no reason to argue, but in a game like this where even I'm lurking, I'm less inclined to pass judgement on somebody for it.

I'm not just voting Oversoul for lurking...it sure does help reinforce the points I've already made though.

[Banana Frog]

I'm feeling a bit lost without a vote count so here we go.

Unofficial Vote Count 4.00

Oversoul

(6): farside22, The Blue Blur, Banana Frog, Firebringer, Oversoul, pisskop

L-4

St. Constantine the Hermit

(2): mastin2, Flubbernugget

L-8

Quoth the Pidgeon

(1):St. Constantine the Hermit

L-9

The Blue Blur

(1): singersigner

L-9

Atum

(1): ronit

L-9

Not Voting

(7): Atum, MaxwellPuckett, PeregrineV, Prolapsed Brain, TriForceP, Quoth the Pidgeon, Warped

With 18 alive, it takes 10 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2015-09-27 19:06:43)

@Warped: i will try to get frogger to answer your questions. the short version is we're leaning scum on her but it's complicated.

--P

[Banana Frog]

Why are you voting warped?

--P

[Banana Frog]

Because the depth of thought and analysis Warped's displaying in his ISO, despite his infrequent posting, has me strongly leaning town on him, and his predecessor looked pretty town aligned too. I see nothing in his ISO that screams scum at me. He seems to be an experienced player, probably an alt, so while there's some chance that he is an experienced player playing a strong scum game, I have no interest in trying to pursue that line of thought any time soon; it's too early in the game to get paranoid of people who look too towny. Meanwhile I have slightly more than enough actual scumreads who I think are behaving objectively scummily, so I see you come in and plop down a vote on one of my townreads and I wonder what's up? Are you doing RVS on page 5³? Are you scumreading him? What's up?

--P

[Banana Frog]

ika! hi!

--P

[Banana Frog]

@Sala Oh good you remembered your hydra password. Are you going to quote all your and sonic's hydraslips?

I could do ronit too! I wish I were a sextuple voter so I could vote ALL my scumreads but I'm not so I can't! Are we just going to bounce back and forth between wagonning various members of the scumteam or what?

--P

[Banana Frog]

ok how come we havent lynch the sala slot yet. i have been following slightly but seriosuly all that noice is shit

Read the intention behind it

what to cause apathy?

<3

--P

[Banana Frog]

yeah, some of the spam is annoying and a bit intense BUT sal has driven the only wagon on scum we've had.

i'm townreading farside too.

--P

[Banana Frog]

I don't disagree. I've got you in the annoying category of my readslist, not the scum category. The annoying category is adjacent to the scum category, but I've got 4 in the scum category already (though the Atum read is on hold to give ika time to settle in.)

--P

[Banana Frog]

I think annoying is causally related to other people not playing, but you're the least annoying of the annoying category. I'm not interested in lynching you. Oversoul or ronit today. Maybe ronit's better, I can kinda see why oversoul would be frustrated if he were really a VT.

@Ika: I don't see how mass claim would help. The night actions are such a mess anyway, and most roles can be scum roles or town roles alike, if you look at the setup on the wiki, all the people's roles that we know about so far could be town or scum roles, so nobody's role claims have helped us with PoE.

pedit: yeah what flubber said. during the daytime, just pretend it's mountainous.

VOTE: Ronit

--P

[Banana Frog]

ika there is a 25% chance there is a riddler in this setup. go read this: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... t_The_Cops

--P

[Banana Frog]

meh. i mean that's a good point, unless it's one of the lurkers.

mass claims are just one of my pet peeves because I usually replace into larges after the mass claim has happened and find my predecessor has for no reason whatsoever claimed truthfully when in both cases I had the kind of role that you don't want to claim, in the first one I was bulletproof to mafia and my predecessor had claimed that so no kills were wasted on me and then in the second i was an executioner which would have been great in LYLO. Also I feel like in we didn't playtest this a mass claim didn't really help at all with finding last scum and people mostly took fakeclaims at face value and then we lost because of bad setup spec and even though this is an open setup it's so confusing that I don't think a mass claim will narrow our lynch pool and I think most people's roles will be in the "could be town or scum" category and then what? I think it'll just make it easier for the scum team to PR hunt or if people claim truthfully then it will help the scum team figure out how to dodge whatever is fucking with their nightkill every night. It's true the lack of flips is hurting town too but it's hurting the scum team more.

like the only time i've ever advocated for a mass claim was when I was scum.

--P

[Banana Frog]

that's true but those are the only two larges i have experience with (battlestar galactica being the other one) so i'm going from what I know. and what I know is that I always hate replacing into a slot that has already claimed.

Flips

Ms. Marangal (Internal Affairs Cop) - Named Vanilla Townie - Flipped Pregame
Klingoncelt (Grandma Orwell) - Big Brother - Lynched Day 1
Drizzx (replaces Drixx;ZZZX) - Neighborizing Psychotic Jailkeeper - Died Day 2 due to mod error

Honey bee (replaces Gratuitous) - Scum Drug Dealer - Lynched Day 3

we've had 4 flips so far: 1 sample this what flips look like flip, 1 town lynch, 1 modkill due to mod error, 1 scum lynch. 0 nightkills. Something is making the 0 nightkills happen. I worry that a massclaim would jinx it.

--P

[Banana Frog]

sorry ika. you do you.

--P

[Banana Frog]

you're not starting from scratch; i was scumreading your predecessor too. anyway, scum can fake a reaction test too.

--P

[Banana Frog]

ugh i know i keep bouncing back and forth between my scumreads but Warped has some good points and I don't mind giving the new guy a chance to settle in, even though I didn't really like his entrance or see what he's going to get out of it. My read on ronit is somewhat prejudiced by ongoing, so maybe it'll be better to wait until he's done more worth talking about here.

I remember that before my cat died I was wanting to re-evaluated bulba because I was starting to worry about confirmation bias but then I never got round to it. I'm still having trouble with my attention span but soon I hope to be able to ISO dive people properly.

VOTE: Oversoul L-4

--P

[Banana Frog]

it's not policy. we think he's scum. policy would be lynching you.

pedit: walling is a playstyle thing. it's null. i'm a wallposter too usually. i literally can't help it.

--P

[Banana Frog]

Oversoul can get lynched later. Farside is right, scum > VT.

Also I had a cool gif but its probably too flashy for Plot so boooooooo.

~Salalalalal

Spoiler: out of game stuff

if you put it behind a spoiler and clearly label it as an animated gif then I won't look. I'm fine with some gifs if they're moving slowly but in the game I was ICing the newbs posted some really big gifs that were shaking rapidly to celebrate mislynching somebody and I don't know if I had a seizure or just a migraine but I was ill for 3 days after.

The browser I use for my hydras (firefox) has a plugin that pauses gifs for me but the browser I use for my main account (sleipnir) doesn't (and I read the game from both browsers) so spoilering gifs is great. I'd switch to this browser full time but a lot of the time the pages don't load and i have to refresh them so it's irritating in its own way. Every web browser in the universe sucks differently ugh.)

I think Oversoul might actually be scum though. You believe the VT claim?

I'm definitely on board with lynching either Oversoul or ronit and I don't really care which order we go in but we need to pick somebody.

--P

[Banana Frog]

I'm not suspicious of Oversoul

because

he claimed VT. Don't twist my words. I'm suspicious of him because his scum meta is lurky and he's lurky. Also I think the apathy over the 0 nightkills thing is going to be affecting the scumteam more than the town, though I think we're all somewhat frustrated by the lack of progress in this game at least we have had a scum lynch now to work from.

Ronit had a predecessor, his name was bulbasaur. They had the same role pm, which is how replacements work.

--P

[Banana Frog]

I agree.

--P

[Banana Frog]

Mastina's overdue for a prod, too. but lurking isn't alignment indicative for her the way it is for oversoul, I don't think. I'm unsure about mastina, she's not my top townread right now but i've got her in the middle somewhere. I wish she were more engaged with this game just because I enjoy playing with her and I feel like if she were here and talking then I could at least try to read her.

I feel like i've been bouncing our vote around all Day between my various scumreads and I'm getting tired of doing it because I feel like if I just keep bouncing around then it hurts the chances of whatever wagon I was on to take off. Pretend I'm a quintuple voter and that I'm voting all of my scumreads simultaneously. I'll stay here on the bigger wagon for now (unless frogger wants to move it) but if the ronit wagon gets bigger than the oversoul wagon then i'll join that.

--P

[Banana Frog]

ronit's predecessor was scummy. ronit's done nothing but voted my top townread and call it a reaction test.

singer's main reads are omgus and tunnelly and she doesn't have the right amount of scumreads, but she's v/la and we don't want to lynch someone who is v/la.

atum for doing fuckall but ika's just replaced him so we're kind of wait-and-see on ika if he'll also do fuckall or if he'll contribute. i don't mind giving him a little time to settle in, it's not like he'll be hard to sort later.

st constantine

because he's annoying and i want to strangle his avatar

because of night actions stuff, he said he rolecopped singer night 2 but triforce's results say st constantine didn't go anywhere night 2, and just generally trusting triforce over st constantine but this setup is so screwy and bus drivers and redirectors and who knows what.

everyone else is null or town.

--P

[Banana Frog]

i'm not sure he's my top townread actually. he's at the top of my list in the hydra pt but my townreads aren't ordered very well. i'm townreading warped, flubber, farside, quoth, firebringer, maxwell, and triforce, the blur blur, but i'm not sure in which order i'm townreading them. nulls are prolapse, mastina, peregrine, pisskop.

--P

[Banana Frog]

I'll sheep you, sala. I'm tired too. Let's just end this day and see what happens.

VOTE: ronit

--P

[Banana Frog]

We haven't been posting enough frog pictures lately. Will post frogs for people who vote ronit!

--P

[Banana Frog]

sweet! 2 more ronit votes till the day is over!



--P

[Banana Frog]

I am going to sleep for the night in real life but here is a frog to keep you company in my absence and to remind you to vote ronit.



--P

[Banana Frog]

i'm still awake but now i'm going to bed for real. here is a frog for constantine. Just one more vote and we can go to the night phase!



--P

[Banana Frog]

Spoiler: hydra slip frog picture

For flubber:


--P

[Banana Frog]

VOTE: Oversoul

Scum with Singer as I've been saying.

[Banana Frog]

^Frog

[Banana Frog]

Singer has a definitive and definable difference in play as scum, as I said.

This almost certainly clears Fire as town. No way singer was death tunneling a buddy there (singer wanted elusive policied and hard scum read elusive before fire replaced in), and I don't see that slot as the 3rd party either.

[Banana Frog]

There are probably 4 scum in this game.

Read the wiki

5 scum, 1 third party


I like oversoul and prolapsed as potential scum

[Banana Frog]

Sorry, not prolapsed. Got confused for a sec

[Banana Frog]

Actually, why can't hermit be scum?

He wanted to drunk role cop singer to "clear" singer as town because she wasn't kidnapper. Also, somehow hermit didn't die when drizzx compulsive kidnapped them. Was that ever worked out why?

Now hermit wants to third party hunt instead of scumhunt.

[Banana Frog]

VOTE: Saint Constantine the Hermit

[Banana Frog]

There are probably 4 scum in this game.

Like, this is the worst town tell ever.

[Banana Frog]

What?

[Banana Frog]

There are probably 4 scum in this game.

Like, this is the worst town tell ever.

Easily faked.

Ask Matsin, sonic, I, or any other scum with above .500 scum wins

OH LIKE ME!

[Banana Frog]

Spoiler: SCtH stuff

I read up more on the set-up. This is literally WIFOM city!

Maybe you guys don't understand. A scum judges isn't likely, and that is a definitive fact.

There is a combined 37% chance that of 4 possible people, at least 1 rolled a townie from either the miscellaneous slot or the town anything

There is only an 8% chance that at least one of two scum anything rolled judge.

If you want to be stupid and say that a scum judge is confirmed, go ahead, but the math doesn't lie. There are 25 possible scum anything roles, 1 of which is judge. With 2 scum anything, that leaves an 8% chance of a scum judge.

Therefore I encourage the judge to claim, because I am not going to let the judge be lynched on extremely unlikely propabilities.

My problem with this set-up is the town-anything and scum-anything slots

The set-up is very fun by itself, but it has the potential to completely lose all its balance by having a randomized anything role. Also people can just cliam whatever the hell they want, and it is hard to disprove it given how the consistent roles ensure WIFOM, and there is no denying that someone could have recieved any role on a very slight probability.

According to the information on the set-up page, there doesn't seem to be any 1x roles.

So you read the setup but don't know how many scum are left?

Bullshit.

[Banana Frog]

PereV is scum too

In fact. PereV should replace out because PereV has disappeared.

[Banana Frog]

Everytime I think there is hope for this town...

How about responding to why you are unsure how many scum there are despite clearly having extensively read the setup.

[Banana Frog]

Scum vig?

Why do you think that?

[Banana Frog]

You realize scum vig is not in the setup?

Unless you mean dayvig...but that's not what you are implying...

[Banana Frog]

Quoth is either a scum vig or being purposefully protected by the scum team as a third party.

Why would scum protect a third party?

[Banana Frog]

Mastina, your read on me is based on ONE scum game that I played back in June, and the only person I was being aggressive towards in that game was my buddy. At the time you metadived me, that was the only scumgame I had. I have plenty more scum games available for you to read through now if you feel like realising that "plot is cautious wishywashy newbtown and aggressive as scum" is inaccurate. My wiki is up to date when you feel like looking through it. I get that you're burnt out and stuff and I don't really mind if it takes you a while to get around to it, but someday I would like you to be able to read me accurately.



Anywhoosies, look at these cute frogs:



There will be more cute frogs for people who vote Constantine! I made a case on him a while back before I got distracted by ronit, and I still like my Constantine case. Still think Oversoul and Atum are probscum but we can do Constantine first.

The tl;dr of my Constantine case was based on

TriForce

's results that constantine didn't go anywhere on Night 2, which is the night that he pretended to drunk rolecop

singer

. But that wasn't my only point against him, just the one I find most compelling now that TriForce has flipped town. I can dig up the rest of the case if people are interested? I remember there being bulletpoints...

--P

[Banana Frog]

Found it! I'll put most of it behind spoiler and then unspoiler the tl;dr part.

Spoiler: Why Constantine is scum

So many things to reply to... But on mobile...
1) Sal? Sonic? Fine. Good job finding scum. Don't let it get to your head now
2) My N2 was Constantine. Talk to me Frogs.
3) BB, they weren't confscum FOR THE LAST FUCKING TIME. I almost wish he wasn't so that it wouldn't go to your head. Of course, since they were right, chances are they're not scum (sadly). Some people didn't want Honey lynched so that they'd talk.
4) The Judge is not confscum. As long as we learn who it is soon, I think it's wise for Constantine to hide their identity.
5) Why are we wagoning me again? You guys never answered that.
6) Why do you think the pretender is the judge?
7) While you weren't talking to me... Right back atcha TBB (whichever you are)
A live town is a good town. And why shouldn't they be replaced? Why have so many town die instead of maybe having them become helpful and non-lurky?
Pedit: Connie, he was talking about you.
Ppedit: STOP FREAKING POSTING YOU GUYS AND LET ME TALK

2. Then Constantine neither went anywhere nor was visited by anybody that night. If he's group scum then he didn't do the kill. But that's really interesting because he said he rolecopped singer that night and yet nobody got singer's role pm and he was making a big stink about that on day 3. Then last night he actually did drunk rolecop someone and got pretender. I'm willing to trust you over Constantine.

5. I have no idea why you're being wagonned.

--P

constantine is caught in a lie. he said he drunk rolecopped singer and he didn't. choo choo

--P

You were already voting me, but whatever. Find your two votes on me without explanation suspicious.

What is your justification now? Last time it was policy lynch.

i'd switched to ronit temporarily but i'd rather lynch you instead. At the time I voted you the second time it was because of the judge thing, I wanted you to out who you think the judge is because they're probably scum. But now it's also because you said you rolecopped singer and you didn't go anywhere on night 2 which is the night you allegedly rolecopped her and I can't make up my mind if you did that to tie yourself to her (which would make her town) or if you did that because you're scum together but it doesn't matter because I think you're scum either way.

So I am voting you because:

• I forgot to wotc you
  
• you lied about singer
  
• you're not telling us who the judge is
  
• you're not being a team player
  
• scum are never ever going to nightkill you not even if you're an innocent child and lynching people that scum want to leave around for LYLO is good.
  
• there's no such thing as too scummy to be scum and I think you're probably scum.
  
• I've heard that you're trollier as scum and lurkier as town.
  
• probably some more things that i can't remember because it's 2am.

--P

Spoiler: continued

No one ended up getting the results for singer or what? o_O

It's more complicated than that!

Nobody got rolecop results for singer, and it was speculated that whoever was scum with singer had got the results and was withholding them. This was seen as an argument for Constantine being town and for singer being scum with somebody.

But we got results from a drunk tracker-watcher hybrid type thing that we couldn't even find on the wiki that said our target didn't go anywhere and was not visited by anybody, but frogger picked up the PM and I didn't notice it until I picked up the day start PM and the night results PM today and saw there were other PMs in our inbox that had been already read.

It turned out that Triforce is the drunk tracker-watcher-thing and that he targetted Constantine on night 2. Constantine went nowhere on night 2 (the night he allegedly rolecopped singer) and was visited by nobody on night 2. That means he didn't really rolecop singer he just said that he did. And why would he do that? To make singer look bad and make himself look good.

Then Constantine really did rolecop someone last night because we got his results; whoever he targetted was a pretender. But the night before he didn't target anyone he just pretended to target someone.

--P

Also, looking through our PMs seems we got Triforce's result the previous night, just frogger must have picked up the PM so I didn't notice it before. Triforce I can give you your result for night 2 whenever you like if you tell me who you targetted (it is not an interesting result though), or I can save it for later after you feel like claiming.

--P

When I said "it is not an interesting result though" I was crumbing to triforce that his target hadn't gone anywhere or been visited by anybody in case he didn't want to out what his role was. But then he said his target was constantine and that made the "didn't go anywhere" result interesting.

--P

The ninja theory is also a good one. It could also be that for some reason my night action didn't go through, but I don't think so since I sent Titus a PM with my action bolded. It worked for me last night.

If the correct explanation were a ninja, you'd know because you yourself would have the ninja modifier. Of course, if that were so, you wouldn't tell us because that'd be scumclaiming.

If someone could establish a motivation for why they believe I did not rolecop singer, then that would be a good start.

I think I've already done this but why not. I can think of several scenarios and I don't know which is right:

rampant speculation

Singer had been under some heat, from our slot and also from the blue blur and some other people maybe that I'm forgetting and too lazy to look back at their names. The scum team realises that there will probably be screaming from TBB until singer is lynched. Constantine, despite his drunk rolecop, is seen as more of a liability than an asset because town will lynch him eventually out of annoyance probably but in the meantime some towncred will help the situation. Constantine is coached into announcing that he has rolecopped singer and trying to get someone to claim they received his results. No one claims, because he didn't actually rolecop her.

The narrative is put forth that whoever received singer's role pm is lying scum, and probably scum together with singer BUT it could also be argued by somebody that the scum is withholding the results because it would clear singer. The entire thing feels rather disingenuous though because almost every single role can be either a scum role or a town role, so that nobody is towncleared or guilty based on what role they have unless their role PM is "Riddler" or "Ninja Drunk Rolecop" or whatnot. Thus scum have no reasons to hold back results on somebody because it neither clears them nor confscums them. Also her role is pretty much confirmed because she gets a QT with whoever she jailkeeps and people have reported being jailkept and getting a QT.

I also wonder if constantine may have thought that his results would look something like "town psychotic neighbourising jailkeeper" vs "mafia psychotic neighbourising jailkeeper" instead of just "psychotic neighbourising jailkeeper" and that may have been why he didn't rolecop her for real? The result we got last night was "pretender" not "town pretender" or "scum pretender".

The actual result of the "who got singer's role pm" theatre that we watched on day 3 was that most people grudgingly townread Constantine for it and people got a bit more suspicious of singer. And in light of that it makes me wonder if singer could actually be town and then Constantine could be trying to tie himself to her and make her look bad. There's scum motivation for that too!

And this entire thing is a distraction from Honey Bee. Which may have been the point.

--P

--P

[Banana Frog]

Ok. It felt like your scumread on me started here:

I am now caught up for the day. Greetings, Firebringer. Thanks for replacing in.
VOTE: Firebringer

Also, something about Plotinus's tone is seeming...off. Like...aggressive rather than laid back? That's the best word I have to describe it. The catch-ups themselves felt not the best but I can't describe why, and this is rather bothering me now. The town Plot I know is fairly objective and analytical; the Plot I'm seeing this game is undeniably feeling aggressive and to my understanding, that's how Plot operates as scum.

/41.

Which was 14th August and at the time I only had the one scum game completed, so it felt like you were making this pronouncement about my scum meta that I'm aggressive as scum and not as town and I didn't know how to reply at the time without compromising myself elsewhere so I just let it be. Also, that was right before I went V/LA for a few weeks because of my cat so I just wasn't engaging with anybody at all about anything, it was all frogger after that while your scumread on us grew and now it feels like you've been reading us that way for so long that it's hard to reverse gears.

But I also don't mind overly much? You're not driving a wagon against us at the moment and I doubt I'll be lynched anytime soon, so it's just more the principle of the thing, when other people have pointed out how unlikely I am to be scum with honey bee. I'm kind of in this weird place of being proud that my scumgame and towngame are identical and wishing that there were someone who could read me anyway, someone who could see me through the noise, but then if there actually was that someone I'd probably feel naked and uncomfortable. Idek.

I do feel bad about ronit; it was mostly based on bulba which i kept meaning to re-evaluate but it's hard for me to change gears when I'm confbiasing on somebody and my opinion of ronit himself was influenced by ongoing which means I can't talk about it but I was clearly wrong about that too.

I'm being wrong a lot lately and it's irritating and frustrating and all of my recently completed town games have been so godawful that I've been embarrassed, especially coupled with burden of profficiency from players who haven't seen me since June/July when I still knew what I was doing. So when I fall on my arse yet again like I did with ronit it is frustrating and tiring...but I feel like I've turned a corner where I don't even have it in me to self-flagellate about it because it's not

new

it's just whelp Plotinus was wrong again, so it goes.

Also, I'm starting to get some enthusiasm for playing mafia back because I'm modding my first game and it is so exciting and fun and I'm happy for the first time since July and I'm having fun writing flavour and mafia's just starting to feel like something fun instead of a chore or a constant reminder of how stupid I am. And the changes to the newbie queue make me want to start ICing again and I'm just...feeling better. Finally. And I've had 4-5 days to get over feeling dumb about ronit and those 4-5 days have been filled with happiness and light. And the singer scumflip makes me happy because at least I was right about that, even though that was more frogger's read than mine. And I was correctly townreading the others too.

So I can either sit in a lump about how I'm too dumb to play mafia because reading people is

hard

and interacting with people is

hard

and understanding what people mean is

hard

and not taking everything literally is

hard

, or I can realise that other people are wrong about things all the time, if they weren't then large themes would be 10 pages long instead of 300 pages wrong because we'd just all be right about everything by page 5. I'm getting my confidence back so I'm saying fuck it and posting frog pictures at people because frogs are cute and because I said in the signup thread that I would.

--P

[Banana Frog]

instead of 300 pages wrong

lol, freudian slip. I meant 300 pages long.

--P

[Banana Frog]

I had a dream that Matsin is the judge btw

Do your mafia dreams usually come true?

Mine never do, thankfully. Last night I dreamed about making a mod error.

Anyway, for those who are leery of policy lynches, never fear. Constantine is probably actually scum. We've explained why at length.

--P

[Banana Frog]

A frog for pere:



Just one more vote needed to rid the town of the scummy dancing teddy bear!

--P

[Banana Frog]

He's at L-1, right? I can hammer that later. Or... Shit, wait, am I already on the wagon? I can't check on my phone without discarding this post and copy/pasting is a pain.

Yeah, he's at L-1 and you're not currently voting anyone.

@Hermit: I made the case on you yesterDay but we lynched ronit instead. It is no surprise I'm picking up the case again today. Frogger also thinks there's associatives between you and singer, in addition to the bit where you pretended to rolecop her and tried to use the lack of anyone getting results to clearing her as innocent and triforce's results say you didn't actually go anywhere that night.

Please explain how quoth managed to prime people while being jailkept.

--P

[Banana Frog]

@pisskop: idk? I guess with SCtH I just don't really care, but I do think there's a pretty good chance of him flipping scum.

@Max: Singer said she was jailing quoth. i don't know if it was to tie herself to them or to protect them from being crosskilled, though since I'm townreading them I lean towards the former. We don't know if she was actually jailing quoth or not, she could have been lying and jailing a buddy instead. I need to go through her ISO in more detail.

--P

[Banana Frog]

@Farside: you either got triforce's results or st. constantine's results.

If it looks like a rolecop, it's st. constantine's. if it looks like a tracker-watcher combination, it's triforce.

[Banana Frog]

He died last night. If he targeted someone last night, his results may still be floating around.

Investigative Roles Visit Their Targets

Investigative Roles Get Results

Commuters return
Actress and Amnesiac Selects Their Targets
Coroner digs up role info

Kills Resolve

--P

[Banana Frog]

That was not a hammer.

Molla replaced Pere and Pere was voting SCtH

Sorry

[Banana Frog]

hiiiii BBmolla!

Here is a frog for voting Constantine even though your predecessor was also voting him so you didn't actually lolhammer:



--Plotinus

[Banana Frog]

Looking forward to it! Nice to see a familiar face.

--P

[Banana Frog]

btw I think constantine

still

refusing to tell us who the scumJudge is after he thought he was hammered says something important about his alignment.

--P

[Banana Frog]

Firebringer, why would a town aligned player hold back crucial information from the town such as the identity of the scumJudge even after they think they have been lynched?

--P

[Banana Frog]

Yeah. I could, too. But ... I'm trying to think of a good example that I can talk about without offending anybody... so there's my friend zakk, who is a rather chaotic player by nature and regardless of his alignment he's assertive and opinionated and does crazy gambits and plays it fast and loose, and he tied himself to my buddy in n1615 so i mislynched him and I made him enjoy his mislynch which was great fun but so anyway. You played with him in space dandy, so you know what he's like. He's fun to play with and I like him.

But in Genesis Mafia, where he was scum, he was playing the same way: fast and furious and unselfconscious and irritating various people and being wrong about his reads and at one point someone gave him the ability to decide by himself who should be lynched and he lynched two town players and the way he did it was very anti-town and clearly furthered scumwincon instead of townwincon, but most people said well he's just like that, that's just zakk being zakk and wrong about his reads because town are wrong about stuff all the time too, etc.

And they were right that zakk is just like that.

But he was actually scum. And he's not a VI, he's just...chaotic...which makes it harder for lawful players like myself to figure out whether he's chaotic good or chaotic evil in a particular game.

When a person is the way that Constantine is and has a reputation for being like this, yeah we do need to put some effort into figuring out if he's actually scum this time or just town being flagrantly wrong, but at the same time we can't afford to watch him do thing after thing after thing that furthers scum wincon and just give him a free pass for it because sometimes he shits all over everything as town, too. You know?

I realise that we're probably not going to see eye to eye on this one, and that I in particular am not the person who is best suited to change your mind, and I don't want to get into a protracted mafia theory argument about what to do about People Like Constantine, but I want you to know that I hear you and I know where you're coming from and I disagree but let's agree to disagree.

Here's a frog to indicate that I don't want to get into a TvT with you:



--P

[Banana Frog]

The tracker/watcher is Triforce's result. If the result is that the person went nowhere and wasn't visited by anybody then aside from checking whether he crumbed anything it's going to be hard to figure out who it was. If there are names in the result, that the person visited x and was visited by y, then maybe at least y will know who it was?

Who else got my drunk dials?
N1 - Connie
N2 - Connie
N3 - TBB
Pedit: Ninja was given to one mafia member. Interesting...

We had his result on N2 that he didn't go anywhere and wasn't targetted by anyone. someone else probably got the results at the end of night 1 and night 3.

--P

[Banana Frog]

I need to do more VCA with sonic tomorrow but Im thinking Banana Frog is 92% scum based on voting Grat D1 until near late when they moved to Klingon

We're a bussing machine!

Bus honeybee, bus singer, bus constantine!

I bus everyone! Every scum game! BUS BUS BUS BUS BUS BUS BUS BUS!!!!!

[Banana Frog]

Also, if Constantine really is town, I'm gonna WOTC him so fast after this. I was already almost there from priors, but gave him another chance. But jesus fuck after this.

[Banana Frog]

You bussed only when you had too. Dont give me that shit.

You tried to delay the HoneyBee Lynch by letting constantine bitch about a future modkill. Constantine is town, soooooo

Bullshit. I never tried to delay the honeybee lynch, I said the whole time it was going to happen. I just wanted to make a case on singer. If I was really on their team, why would I delay one scum lynch (honeybee) to push another scum lynch (singer)? Jesus fuck Sala.

Go read my fucking case on singer and tell me the convenience behind bussing her there.

[Banana Frog]

VOTE: singer

-Frog

PLOTINUS CONTROL YOUR PET FROG AND TRY TO TELL HIM WE CAN DEAL WITH HIM LATER.

Also, you're wrong. You thought I was delaying honey bee to let constantine bitch about a modkill. No, I delayed honey bee to try to lynch singer. You even commented on it.

[Banana Frog]

"Grat and singer are scum but I feel much more sure about singer."
"We've settled on a Grat lynch today."
*is voting singer*
These thoughts are creating a nice dissonance for settling up the next mislynch.

Singer reply to me^^^

[Banana Frog]

Guess I just wanted to waffle between my two scumbuddies

[Banana Frog]

we cna just lynch blur afterwards

LOL trolling.

Why would we do that?

Unless you're saying they are the arsonist...but nahhhh.

[Banana Frog]

Youre plot/frog, jaa?

What?

[Banana Frog]

Yes, we are Plotinus and Fro99er

[Banana Frog]

It says so in our signature

--P

[Banana Frog]

are you claiming arson?

No, I just don't see TBB as arson, because I'm town reading them.

Why do you think TBB is arson?

[Banana Frog]

ika, why are you 3p hunting? Are you scum?

[Banana Frog]

i can see their shit posting being an arson play

Elaborate