FF7 Mafia (Game Over)

[mastin2]

Throw logic out the window. I can't make mastina mad heaven forbid

The "I am sorry" bit was very clearly referring to bringing up a very bad memory in me.

As for throwing logic out...when it comes to me...

YES!

Yes, you throw logic out when dealing with me. As scum, I LIVE off of manipulating logic. Logic is ridiculously easy to fake. It's pathetically easy to pull the strings. Just look at the players, give them the logic they want to hear, and then bam, bingo, I get what I want. There's no logical way to catch me as scum.

It's subjectivity every single time. Every. fucking. single. time. I've been scum, subjectivity has been my downfall if I've had a downfall at all. Not, "I think mastina is the most logical scum, because of these factors"; always, and I do mean always, "I just feel like mastina is the most likely scum overall". I'm ridiculously good at writing and manipulating narratives as scum. So of COURSE you can't rely on the written facts.

[mastin2]

There is ONE scenario where Jaqen's guilty isn't as strong as I originally believed it to be, but it concerns me that Mastin didn't pick-up on it.

Oh really?

Do enlighten me.

Him being town lying crossed my mind, and thanks to Inorganic Chemistry and the timing behind his guilty claim is what I initially assumed. (There was very clearly a trajectory there, by the way, which no fucking way could I have faked as scum. Prior to the claim, I didn't have the slightest clue about Jaqen's guilty on me, and thought he was scum. Then, immediately after his lynch in Inorganic Chemistry, when he learned I was scum there, he claimed the guilty on me in this game...so I thought he was town, bullshitting. Then later, the idea came to me that he wasn't lying, but that his result was Your Target, not mastin2, which Jaqen indirectly confirmed, meaning redirector.)

Maybe if I was scum, I'd be seeing what you're talking about, but this is a non-bastard game. Jaqen flipped town and even before he flipped town there was basically zero doubt that he was town. (Basically, not entirely.) The options are he lied and was town or that he was telling the truth but his result were interfered with.

What's the third? That he actually had an innocent on me and was bluffing the scum, an even worse lie? Okay, admittedly that does kinda sorta vaguely sound like a Jaqen thing to do, butstill.

Interested also. I think radja is significantly more likely to be scum than ph, but prohawk hasn't really done anything this game to make me think hes town, either

(Still lean towards hiplop being scum.)

[mastin2]

I'm just going to put these two quotes back to back.

(Notable is that while I said I was conftown by role, I never said it was

my

role that made me conftown. I implied, especially when I said my role was IC-like, but never outright lied.)

I'm confirmed town by something I can reveal at any time.

"You fucking morons. I'm confirmed fucking town because

KABOOSE HAS A FUCKING INNOCENT ON ME

." <--The words I could type at any time, the reveal I could make at any point, to make myself confirmed town.

So thanks for augmenting my point, ProHawk! You're helping to solidify the town-case on me.

[mastin2]

inb4 maybe mastin is scum and jaqen is her partner? I dunno...

Also, for those of you STILL stuck on the Kaboose-innocent thing. This is pretty clearly evidence that he did NOT get an innocent result on Mastin or... why would you be doubting it? Need I remind anyone that Kaboose was scum?

Well to be blunt, yes that was a tipoff to me that Kaboose could be scum because I knew he had a result on me yet he was obfuscating not having it--but ultimately, I wrote it off. There's dozens of ways to see Kaboose's posting there. First is as scum who is trying to distance from the result to avoid exactly what happened: getting crosskilled. (As in, "Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck, mastina's making it obvious I'm an investigative PR, fuck, I'm going to get nightkilled by the Meteor scum, fuck, fuck, FUCK!") Second is as scum who is trying to distance from the result to potentially lead to my mislynch: Kaboose, being scum, needed as many town lynched as possible, and I was the only one who had caught the 'crumbs; with me lynched, he'd have that mislynch and also anonymity. (See point #1.)

Third was as a reaction test to Jaqen, given his other posting:

I mean I'm very confident in mastin being town but you're telling me you have a guilty as a tracker, and

not even looking at the other side of the coin

.

"The other side of the coin" = "You're not even considering that I have an innocent investigation on her."

I have reasons beyond Mastin's posts to believe her town.

After the above, meaning he was still saying he had the result.

Jaqen, don't mean to sound like a broken record... Is there a possible scenario where mastin is town?

This again basically fishing around on Jaqen.

I said Mastin is inequitably, 100% guilty.

I'm still finding it hard to understand how a tracker could come up with that.

"I find it hard to find how a tracker could come up with a guilty on a VT."

This is obviously what I ultimately concluded. That Kaboose was going about trying to sort Jaqen. He very obviously had a result on me.

[mastin2]

Now, here mollie comes, voting you to l-1, but with no actual reason given.

L-2. And the reason was obvious: sheeping me.

(You have to understand: pirate mollie and I go way back. YOU may have a fuck meta policy, but you MUST understand there is a dynamic between mollie and I that is in play all the same. The way we resolve things won't necessarily have an instant click to you, because sometimes, the resolution just happens off of things you simply can't comprehend yet which are instinctive between us. She's my friend, and a damn good one, too, and the best player on the site at reading me. The specifics don't really matter; even I don't really know the exact cause. I just recognize that she's gotten to that point.)

Anyone other than Antagonist (or you) voting ProHawk claiming anything other than sheeping as reasoning would, quite frankly, be lying. I asked, begged, pleaded, and have continued to go about, trying to get people to vote ProHawk. Someone actually finally following through on that is not a surprise. The question you should ask is if I were actually scum and ProHawk actually town, why was it ONLY one person following through on it?

I view as kinda a cluster fuck of I don't know what the hell to think, there's way too many suspects.

Yeah, I know! Which is part of the problem I've been having!

[mastin2]

Side Note: Mastin hits L-1 around VC 6.2. If there were any of Cerb, Mollie, Radja, or Seiko who are scum and Mastin is town. SHE WOULD HAVE BEEN HAMMERED.

this also seems pretty blatantly false. what would you have expected one of us to do, just walk in here and hammer? because if this is the case, you're ignoring what happens the day after if mastina gets lynched and flips town (what would you expect to happen to the person who hammered in that case?), and if not, i'm pretty sure at least one person declared intent to hammer iirc

^What Seiko said is something I also said.

But

that being said

, all the same, does slightly increase my hiplop suspicion, and reconfirm what I already said before: in {ProHawk, Antagonist, hiplop}, we likely have the Meteor scumteam.

[mastin2]

since Mollie/Mastin is pretty freaking obvious.

Question.

When has a scumteam I've been on

ever

been obvious?

[mastin2]

lA- Kaboose hadn't flipped at the time. So no. Not anywhere close to conf-town.

Kaboose hadn't flipped, true...but which do you do first, lynch the innocent result, or the person who claimed the innocent result?

Yeah. Nine times out of ten, IF there was going to be a lynch between me/Kaboose...it would have been Kaboose first. Because no duh. Kaboose had claimed a clear on me. If people thought I was scum, they'd have to lynch Kaboose first.

B- He didn't even have an innocent on you because he expressed doubts.

Already explained that. Most likely the SINGULAR POST OF DOUBT was trying to get a reaction from Jaqen. (Heck, it could have even been sarcasm, I forgot about that possibility.) All his posts after that deal with Jaqen in some manner or another, and/or are resolidifying that yes he has an innocent result on me.

[mastin2]

As for throwing logic out...when it comes to me...YES! Yes, you throw logic out when dealing with me. As scum, I LIVE off of manipulating logic. Logic is ridiculously easy to fake. It's pathetically easy to pull the strings. Just look at the players, give them the logic they want to hear, and then bam, bingo, I get what I want. There's no logical way to catch me as scum.

Sounds like your play here...

Oh, anything but.

My logic here is blatantly, BLATANTLY the town logic. Mainly because it works the other way, too. I use logic as town, but it doesn't actually work to convince people. I try, but I can't make it work. And guess what? It hasn't. In spite of ALL THE EVIDENCE I HAVE RAISED AGAINST YOU, you have peaked at three votes. THREE. votes. One of which was immediately taken off. The entire game. Because apparently what I've given isn't good enough, isn't solid enough, isn't logical enough.

[mastin2]

C- They were his results. AND HE WAS SCUM!

So?

The most effective scumplay is to tell the truth 7 times out of 10. Being scum != being a liar. Players in Inorganic Chemistry know that all too well, since I never told a lie that game. (Except the motivation behind my targets.) I told the truth about who I targeted the entire time.

[mastin2]

Get back to me if you actually care about my theory Mastin, or we can just keep bitching at eachother.

I do care.

[mastin2]

Well, I had JUST asked him if he was basing his reasoning on her posts, or on his history with her.

Read Kaboose's iso to see his game history with me--virtually none. He flat-out admitted he doesn't know me as a player, that his experience with me is limited.

The fact that you are abusing that friendship and bringing it into this game - USING IT AS A MANIPULATOR - is bullshit Mastin.

Yes it is bullshit. As in, the idea that I would abuse friendship and bring it into the game, using it as a manipulator, is utter bullshit. mollie is a friend who understands my play. That means she can read me. It's convenient to my towngame, and inconvenient to my scumgame, but the only way to avoid it is either to not play with mollie or to try and evolve my scumplay. (Which I do, but eh, probably not going to be successful.)

i can't look at that and think it's *not* a soft

Except for the words "believe" right? Because that sounds pretty soft to me...

yes, it fucking is. "i have role reasons to believe mastin is town" IS A FUCKING SOFT. it doesn't matter if you use "believe", or "know", or what the fuck ever; you're claiming you have outside information suggesting someone else is a certain alignment. that is all there is to it
and i will feel like absolute shit if you are town here and what you're saying is correct, but when you attempt to nitpick word choice like this, it just reaffirms my suspicion that mastina is town and correct that you're scum here.

^What Seiko said.

[mastin2]

And, it was L-1 mastin. He was at 2, I voted, putting him at 3(very deliberately, as I explained above), which is L-2 and then mollie put him at L-1.

Radja unvoted, Cerb.

It was L-2.

So lets take it at this angle then. What if we're both town?

Then I lynch myself tomorrow, keeping my word, and pray to the ever-loving gods that there's only two scum left.

I'd certainly deserve to be lynched if you flip town. That'd be a failure, a noisy distraction, of, what, 50 pages? 3 mislynches, albeit one which I was in opposition? I'd have it no other way.

But I just really, really, REALLY think you're scum.

[mastin2]

We know Jaqen tracked you. Its literally asinine to suggest that he was blatantly lying. What we never got from him was the tracked-result. What if he tracked you to nowhere?

So it

was

That he actually had an innocent on me and was bluffing the scum, an even worse lie? Okay, admittedly that does kinda sorta vaguely sound like a Jaqen thing to do, butstill.

This?

[mastin2]

I'm about to leave for a counseling appointment, and by the time I get back, it'll be past deadline I think, but there's something I want to say before deadline. Please hold off of any hammering votes before then.

[mastin2]

(Which means, give me fifteen minutes, I'm typing something right now. As I speak.)

[mastin2]

So first off, to ProHawk: I have to give you mad props. Regardless of what your alignment is, be it town or scum, the last-minute effort you've put in

has

thrown my scumread on you into doubt, especially with how you're showing signs of being willing to work with me. Meaning that I take back my "sorrynotsorry" comment; if you're town I do need to be legitimately sorry for not having previously felt sorry. That's the effort I was expecting from a town-ProHawk the entire time, the level of effort and thought, original thought, I had been expecting. If you're town, thank you for showing it; if you're scum, then good job on faking it, for it'd be a very good fake.

And I do have reason to think you could be town beyond this, too. Beyond your effort, there's a one-two punch which is inducing in me the paranoia of us being town-town, and it comes from this:

VOTE: Mastin
I think ProHawk is more likely to be town at this point.

...Combined with this:

UNVOTE: radja
mathematically not happening today
same position as cerb. i guess we have to decide prohawk or mastin?

And similar posting around deadline, which very much is making me worried that it's scum who doesn't care which of us is being lynched, so long as it IS one of us being lynched. The fact that hiplop is heavily-buddying Cerb doesn't help things, either.

And, ahg. I really don't want to take back my scumread in the last second, and then end up having been correct the whole time. That'd be Antihero2 all over again. (What with the whole ETL situation.) I really, really don't want to take back that scumread only for it to have been correct. Yet at the same time, it really sucks we're at deadline, because right now I want more time to feel things out, to give you a chance. Since I'd ALSO rather not die having been wrong the entire time about you. (That'd just be embarrassing.)

So it probably would be best for me to be lynched, and for everyone to try and figure things out tomorrow. I'd encourage a heavy, HEAVY look into a hiplop-Radja pairing; I think there's a minimum of one scum in them, possibly two. ProHawk shouldn't be let off the hook, of course, but if he doesn't keep up the good posting, lynch him.

I won't self-vote, but I'm going to do something just as suicidal: unvote ProHawk who could be scum (and is my counterwagon), a monumentally stupid move, in favor of this.
VOTE: hiplop.

Sorry I couldn't figure the game out.

[mastin2]

I am the worst fucking town player to have ever lived and I don't even know what to say about my play this game.
sorry town :/

1: give mollie credit where credit's due, you wouldn't have caught her.
2: I do hold a bit of blame for initiating a 1v1 with wrong-scum ProHawk, me being right about his alignment but wrong about his faction, AND for having some shade thrown on Radja.
3: ...But really, the only failure was in not voting the person

I died voting for

, hiplop, who was playing a ridiculously obvscum game full of lurking and opportunistic posting.
Mollie really, REALLY carried hiplop through that.

[mastin2]

Lol! I'm pretty sure it was a track to nowhere with Jaqen seeing pr crumbs

It was.

Which is absolute bullshit.

Without that, I wouldn't have been lynched, would have been obvtown, and while I might have wrong-scum-lynched you, I'd have probably still have caught onto hiplop.

Granted, irrelevant, given that I wouldn't have caught mollie, butstill. That was a mislynch the game very much did not need.

[mastin2]

I should clarify that:
Ridiculously obvscum game seconds prior to my death, and all posting after that.

I wasn't flinging mud at you, hiplop. I was noticing a sudden change in your posting, which got much, much stronger.
You basically contributed nothing town during the Radja lynch day, except opportunistically hopping on, and you lurked through the majority of the last day only to deliver the hammer once Seiko voted ProHawk.

PRIOR to that, yeah, your play was fine, even good, but you'd be telling a lie if you said you weren't obvscumposting near the end.

[mastin2]

You would be mad too if a tracker with an effective innocent (because in a multiball game with factions like this, it's rare for scum to not have an action they can perform) result on you claimed in unwavering conviction that it was a guilty, directly leading to your lynch when by play rather than role you've never been more town.

(Seriously, never in my life, not even in Tales, have I been more obvtown than in this game.)

[mastin2]

You *really* want to believe mastin didn't eff up soooooooooooo bad, don't you?

Yeah, uh, Jaqen?

Take a vote.
Seven out of ten are going to say it's your fault.
Two out of ten are going to only say it's not your fault because they see your side of the argument.

I had

two posts

.
Two.
Literally TWO. Where I hinted at having knowledge...and it was nonspecific. One was me saying, "If I'm right...". IF. IF. As in, I wasn't sure. As in, IT WAS FROM AN OUTSIDE SOURCE I WAS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR. The second was also nonspecific. It was me continuing that and stating I had a zero percent interest in lynching those same two players.

There was no way that any reasonable player would have looked at that and thought I was 'crumbing to have done an action that night.
Especially. ESPECIALLY. After when you explicitly asked, I said that I was incapable of actioning N3. You asked about other things, I said that it would be anti-town to go into further detail, but I was still. Explicitly. Regardless of what my role may or may not have been. Saying I did not action that night.

[mastin2]

Mastin doesn't throw out crumbs to gambit. She always has a legit game reason to. Always.

Yes!

Explicitly so, yes!

The posting you thought was me 'crumbing?
WASN'T.
I didn't start 'crumbing until AFTER you claimed the guilty, and my first 'crumbs were at me being confirmed town, NOT me 'crumbing to have done something. I had a good game reason for protecting Kaboose, too--I was under the impression he was an odd-night investigative of some sort that got clear innocents or guilties, either a cop or a hider. While I was doubly-wrong (on his role and his alignment), it was a very reasonable conclusion to have reached.

And you never considered it.

[mastin2]

So Mastin, care to try and explain what you crumbed doing night 3?

I can explain who I did/didn't target, yes. Will I do so, no, not unless absolutely necessary.

It's necessary.

Fine. I suppose I can reveal that much. I didn't target anyone night three. Mainly because I was physically incapable of doing so. Details beyond that don't get to be revealed yet. Not unless I deem it necessary to reveal.

Hmm. One final question then- why were you crumbing shit as if you'd done something N3 then? You did the same on D2 and D3 and what popped on D4 was new.

At that point, all that was needed was an honest answer and this would have gone a different direction.

And I answered honestly. I told you I did not do anything N3, and I said that further answering would be anti-town.

Because, guess what? If I had said I hadn't 'crumbed on D2 or D3, that'd be saying that I was a VT by proxy. You were asking me to claim when I very, very much was trying to not do so until D6, where I would have immediately claimed and revealed why I protected Kaboose regardless of how N5 had gone.

[mastin2]

If you're wondering.

This

is the alleged "crumbs".

Also, I just realized something.

If Kaboose is town, then Varsoon is town as well.
Guaranteed.

Call it a theory. One I'm keeping to myself.

"I just". JUST.
As in, Just as posting. This was not my first post in the day. Not even remotely.
If I actually 'crumbed something, I'd do it immediately. I don't believe in subtlety so I'd go flat-out from the get-go.
So by me saying "just", that means JUST RIGHT THEN AND THERE.

"Call it a theory".
Theory, NOT PROVEN FACT.
As in, something that I hold a hypothetical thing about.

@mastin, who do you think we should lynch in that pool of 5? I'm open to any

My order would be:
TiP
Cerberus
Jaqen

I have a 0% interest in lynching either Kaboose or V.

TiP's disappearance is concerning, but I still hold more town than scum there.
Cerb's more suspicious overall.
And there at most suspicious is Jaqen.

I suppose, then, you could say that we have 3 names on the ZX wagon and 3 names off the wagon, since my pool ON the wagon is {ProHawk, Antagonist, Seiko}.

It's just that off the wagon, I see a Shinra, sure, and

maybe

a Meteor.
On the wagon, there's gonna be two meteor in my opinion, and ProHawk/Antagonist are those two to me. (I'd begrudgingly admit Saint would be

possible

. But I'd vastly prefer lynching ProHawk/Antagonist over Saint.)

This 0% interest was new, yes...but not from daystart. My daystart post?

That chess/checkers analogy never fails to make me cringe a little.

Would you prefer the poker/chess one, then?
I mean, I'd use Go, but I don't actually know how to

play

Go.

(Btw, V could be Shinra, especially since he'd be an informative role to back up their blocking role. But not wanting to go there, yet.)

I don't like ZZZX's initial "Don't Vote Mastin" "Vote Mastin" trajectory which is pretty fake, top that off with me asking him about it and his evasion. If people don't want to lynch Mastin, ZZZX would be my consolation. Likely scum on the same side anyway.
VOTE: ZZZX

^Still maintain that this is Meteor scum.

this game. is so cringeworthy.

(+the hammer below) I still think this is scum, too.

[10] ZZZX (

Psychlone

, ProHawk,

Saint

, Seiko x Naomi, The Antagonist)

[4] Saint (Kaboose, Varsoon,

singersigner

)
[1] mastin2 (Jaqen Hghar)
[3] Not Voting (Cerberus v666, TheIrishPope)

So when it comes to the scum, this is more or less what I'm looking at. (TIP may be an underline or even a strikeout, not sure yet on how town he is, but definitely is more town than not.)

This. Where I say V could be Shinra but I don't think so, and Kaboose is also in the list of possible scum. My scum list at the time included, at daystart, {ProHawk, Seiko, Antagonist, Kaboose, Varsoon, Jaqen, Cerberus, TIP} as serious contenders.
As in, both the players I later said were 0% scum.

Dead giveaway there that, NOPE NOT ME CRUMBING. Me realizing what

Kaboose

was crumbing, on the other hand...

[mastin2]

And if you're wondering, then we had this:

(Yes that's an indirect way of saying that I think Jaqen may be Shinra in contrast to my original thoughts, but again, not really my priority. Scum ON the wagon is mine.)

Then this:

V/LA until Monday

.

Before Jaqen's guilty.

And this is a crumb v this is a crumb v this is a crumb v this is a crumb v this is a crumb v
I GOT THE GOODS ON YOU LAST NIGHT MASTIN AND YOU ARE 200% GUILTY
That was a crumb ^ that was a crumb ^ that was a crumb ^ that was a crumb ^ that was a crumb ^

The guilty claim, and my response after that was, well, we all know that:

*sigh*
Jaqen's town.

I mean. I suppose.

Theoretically

.
He could have the ego as scum to bet the whole game on me being scum, but that'd be a backfire along the lines of me counterclaiming the cop in Mafia on Werewolf Island: yeah, I'd die, but he'd then immediately proceed to either get nightkilled or speedlynched the next day.

Theoretically

.
He could be gambiting on saying that, and then going, "Just kidding!", worming his way out.
Or theoretically, could be planning on pulling a kuribo and replacing one fakeclaim with another.

THEORETICALLY.
He could be gambitting on nobody taking him seriously, and people writing it off as, "No scum is THAT stupid."


But let's face it.
No scum is THAT stupid. Especially given that he'd be Shinra if scum at all.

Do ignore him, though. He's got nothing. I'm conftown, so don't bother defending me; his BS is very much transparently so. Simply put, he's not worth the effort of wasting time to address anymore. He's town. I'm town. He'll make a lot of noise trying to say otherwise, but don't let him bait you. It'll just be a moment of derp on

your

part.

"Jaqen's town, but so am I*. He's faking." (You were.)
*So I wasn't actually conftown because Kaboose's results were not as clear-cut as I thought, but I didn't know that and neither did Kaboose; Kaboose was under the impression I was conftown so when he posted that I was that gave ME the impression I was.

[mastin2]

Also, basic fundamental fact about me: my mantra as scum is that the greatest weapon is the truth.
I never.
NEVER.

Would lie about an action as scum, when I can just justify having done the action when town.

You REALLY SHOULD HAVE KNOWN THIS, Jaqen, because you

not only

witnessed it first-hand in Inorganic (I never once lied about my scum actions), BUT ALSO preached it as an alt! I weaponize the truth as scum.

So if I'm 'caught' in a lie, then YOU CAN BET YER ASS that I'm town who has reason not to be telling the truth. A-la me claiming to be a mason when I'm a neighbor, a signature tactic of mine. I do that all the time. I LIE ABOUT MY STATUS all the time, claiming that sort of thing...all the time. Always as town. Never as scum. Because as scum my best weapon is the truth; as town, one of my greatest strengths is planning small-scale gambits. Little things like SMITE.

[mastin2]

You protected three scum

You keep saying that.

And yet, the total never exceeds two.
One was mollie. One which nobody can be faulted for because mollie played a stellar scumgame.

The other was Kaboose...and that was

temporary

. Mind you, depending on mollie/hiplop's reasoning for nightkilling Kaboose, I might have CAUSED the crosskill in the first place GIVING US that dead scum (I'd need to read the PT to see), but I was always. Always. ALWAYS. going to stop defending Kaboose come D6. I was temporarily defending him

as to allow him to get another result

. Once he had done so, I was going to throw him to the wolves and let his fate be what his fate was.

Which is why I referenced SMITE so heavily.

Wasted 3 town (2 PR)

You keep saying this, and yet, while I was responsible for Saint (a VT), I wasn't the one who caused you to die. (That was YOU.) I wasn't the one who lynched Radja. (That was the scum! Mainly.) I CERTAINLY wasn't the one who lynched TIP given I DEFENDED HIM.

Because you were wrapped up in you and not wanting to claim- wait for it- VT until D6

Yeah because it's pro-town to, without reason, claim your role prematurely.

There was no cause for me to claim I was a VT before then.

[mastin2]

Simply realize that you need to trust in others

a little

more and not go all conf bias.

Who's talking to who?

'Cause, uh.
Jaqen.

This is something I needed to tell you.

I

literally started a thread about the importance of trust

.
I most CERTAINLY hold plenty of it.

YOU, however, were the one who didn't trust me.

I placed trust in you to be town. I placed trust in you to not be lying.
Yet you held none for me, even after I made it explicit I was asking for it for

one day

. One damn day. You couldn't give me one. damn. day.

[mastin2]

Hiplop. Don't forget hiplop

I did not defend him.

I townread him, yes.
I did not defend him.

There's a difference.

I had reason to believe hiplop was town because he had reason to believe I was scum from Inorganic Chemistry.
That townread, while a townread,

consistently

declined. As in, if you look at my trajectory on hiplop, throughout the whole game, it kept going down. And down. And down. (In part because that was literally the only reason I truly had for the townread, aside from good commentary here and there.) By D6, hiplop was one of my prime 3 candidates for being scum. I had him, ProHawk, and then rotating between Antagonist (initial) and Radja (final) in there, but hiplop was basically number two scumread, or by day's end, number one.

That's not defending a player.

[mastin2]

M
Not that you've asked for it, but...
When you say frog, many people jump
You simply townreading him is the same thing

Well that's not my fault.

When I don't ask people to follow my reads, I don't expect people to follow my reads.
Meaning, when I don't ask for people's trust, I'm not expecting to be trusted.
Meaning, if I have a townread on a player that I'm not pushing, I'm not expecting people to sheep that townread.

[mastin2]

Like, if someone asked me about a read, I'd explain to the best of my ability that read and why I have it, but if it's not a strong read, I'm going to emphasize: it's not a strong read, please don't take my word for it, it's not a strong read, it's just something off of something.

[mastin2]

My dinner was reheated pizza. ;_;

Oh my god, so was mine!

[mastin2]

Should I not have scum-claimed? It somehow brought about a speed lynch, but I think I was going to get lynched anyway? dunno....

In my opinion, given the gamestate, you were screwed either way.

What you needed to do, though, was go ALL OUT on your scumclaim. Claim who you killed AND WHY, and who YOUR BUDDIES TARGETED and why.

If you had given that information, then Seiko might have thought you were telling the truth about being Shinra, because you were either telling a convincing lie, or telling the truth using knowledge only an actual Shinra would know.

But since the extent of your scumclaim was, "I killed mollie twice", and then, only LATER saying, "Oh, yeah, btw, I'm Rufus and I'm a Godfather", it left you wide open.

Seiko still hammered a bit prematurely, though. In their situation, while I'd hesitate to believe you and would in fact be thinking you were Meteor just like they did, I'd have asked for the above info, and if you could have provided it, then I would have realized the truth behind your words and lynched mollie.

Soyeah. Nothing wrong with claiming scum...but when you do it, you really,

really

need to actually go full-out and claim scum, holding nothing back.

[mastin2]

Good advice... unfortunately I was claiming in between stoplights on my phone, so, I wasn't really able to get real in detail.

In that case, say: "Phoneposting. If you're town, hold off on voting me. I have something really important to say, but it's nearly impossible on my phone, so please wait a few hours until I'm at my PC."

I do it all the time (well, not phoneposting, but close enough), and players generally wait for me.

Seiko definitely would have been willing to give you a few hours.

[mastin2]

Well mollie, had you been alive, you would have won (or tied) no matter what. JK vs. ProHawk = JK wins.
Had you been lynched, yeah, prisoner's dilemma.