Touhou UPick 4 - [Aborted]

[borkjerfkin]

Toyota

VOTE: pie

[borkjerfkin]

Lol that autocorrected from yoyoyo

[borkjerfkin]

I want everyone to claim how many Day-use cards they have. I don't care about night-cards.

fuckin

seven

top that

my role is weird

[borkjerfkin]

I'm not buying anyone town/scum based on fuzzy feelings about who might be easier to lynch / harder to lynch at this particular point in time

[borkjerfkin]

I hope at least your spellcards are useful.

they might be and they might not and that's actually largely out of my control and that's all i'm willing to say about it right now

[borkjerfkin]

actually there's not a lot of point in being subtle

reason #3:

Vote: notscience

have you had pregame interactions with pie/ns?

[borkjerfkin]

I'm not buying anyone town/scum based on fuzzy feelings about who might be easier to lynch / harder to lynch at this particular point in time

Do you have anything better to go with

at this particular point in time

then?

no, but that's a false dichotomy

above @sakura

[borkjerfkin]

followup to muffin question:

I have a serious town read on noddy, a serious scum read on zmuffin

was this part fluff/meta (i know the part i didn't quote was) or is this relevant in any non-meta way?

[borkjerfkin]

i don't? I just don't agree

[borkjerfkin]

I dig sakura

[borkjerfkin]

or scum have weird voting mechanics

I have weird voting mechanics; it's not hard to imagine others might too.

[borkjerfkin]

assuming all that stuff is true it's pretty ridiculous sounding regardless of which side it's on

p-edit: I see the quadruple-vote.

I'm just saying the more crazy power you put in the game the less obvious "X must be town/scum" is

[borkjerfkin]

Well if you want to have neutral reads be my guest, i just don't see that as scum right now, i mean i've seen muffin fake claim pretty weird stuff as scum before (dat novice reflexive fruit vendor) but i just don't see him as scum right now.

You've made that clear and I'm not taking umbrage with the fact that you

have

that thought process.

But yes I'll have null reads until I have town/scum reads and I don't even want to talk about that anymore because (duh / potential for dumb semantic argument)

[borkjerfkin]

bork: do you disagree that zmuffin's role is highly unlikely to come from scum, and what did you like about Sakura's posts?

Yes, I do disagree with that; I said exactly that.

re: Sakura: because her treatment of my 48 (in 50 and 61) comes across as ruffled that I'm dismissing her (which I'm not attempting to do) rather than worried that I don't believe she's for real, and I expect that moreso from town.

I think it turns out that she mistook my "at this point in time" clause too -- what I meant was "this is the apparent voting situation (the current voting situation [at this point in time])" (as if the power gamestate could change on subsequent days, even further murking the picture of "does X role make sense as town or scum")

I didn't mean it as a modifier to "fuzzy feelings [at this point in time]" as if it were impossible to have formed reads at this point in time; I just don't agree with this particular declaration that muffin's role is quantifiably more likely town than not from what we've seen.

Hopefully that's not too serpentine to follow but it's an important distinction

[borkjerfkin]

/stir pot

I don't have an issue with Sakura's entrance.

penny for your thoughts so far

[borkjerfkin]

the hell is clownpiece

[borkjerfkin]

does zmuffin clarifying the -4 is, in fact, permanent, affect this?

Without knowing what else is in the game? Not really. And if he's scum I'm assuming he's lying about *some* aspect of his role

I don't know why you're making this about muffin; this isn't really much about muffin

[borkjerfkin]

Like a normal game I'd probably apply occam's razor at least moderately to what I see at face value

this isn't that and I'm not fucking writing anybody off as anything on page 6 when I've seen 3 total spell cards (and 2 of which I have no fucking idea what they even do at that) out of the probably around 30-40 (maybe that's even low - as Kaguya I had like 6 night cards) in the game total?

[borkjerfkin]

Spoiler: clownpiece

oh that's a character

[borkjerfkin]

Hey sakura catch this shade

/me throws it

=/

[borkjerfkin]

@bork: Never played Th 15?

I haven't played since whichever one UFO was and barely at that. SA broke my spirit

[borkjerfkin]

I guess UFO was 12

[borkjerfkin]

I beat Flandre once that's probably as much of an accomplishment I'm ever gonna have in the series

[borkjerfkin]

@pie:

You were initially taking umbrage at how I was approaching Sakura; the zMuffin read to me just happened to be a point of contention, and talking

about

that gave me a bit of a townread on Sakura.

I thought you only cared about the muffin thing in as far as I was talking to Sakura about it since those two things were in the same sentence, so bad frame of reference for me, but in and of itself:
1) yes, I do get your past history with muffin; I remember Xenosaga, etc. I get that you want to have a read there, sure. My "why are you making this about muffin" isn't to dismiss getting a read on muffin, it was confusion as to why this stopped being about Sakura (but see above because I think you're just cramming two only somewhat related points together in 91)
2) That's not really germane to my point: I think in this particular game, all the aforementioned things that muffin claimed could come from either alignment. We haven't seen the gladiator in action and it's not like he's the type of player that always claims at face value even when he's town anyway. I expect high power and crazy spellcards all over the place this game - if he's town I expect scum have a way to counter what he has and if he's scum I expect the opposite. Especially, as Sakura pointed out, with the fact that there isn't a NK, so scum just can't get rid of whomever at night. I don't really know what else to say about it.

More important than do you think I'm wrong: do you think I'm scummy for feeling this way? You are implying you do in 91

[borkjerfkin]

VOTE: pieguy
Yeah scum having no factional kill makes night talk not that useful if the same ammount of ppl are gonna be alive next day.

If you start voting ppl based on how scummy their power sounds you're not gonna go very far, I promise you.

Yeah. I had an unlimited use day-skip in the last touhou upick i played.

[borkjerfkin]

imperishable night and all that

[borkjerfkin]

"Incident solving" is a bit of a protection racket, yeah

[borkjerfkin]

I want to say pie is null but trying to sort Sakura fast is probably pie being town and stuff.

read in progress here but tonewise I agree

[borkjerfkin]

We haven't seen the gladiator in action

well duh, but why do you think i would make that up?

Why not? It's a way of eschewing RVS / interacting / looking for role related responses
or you just being cheeky because you're you.

I don't feel I'm being particularly unreasonable in being wary about unprompted D1 claims, and I really don't have much more to say about this

[borkjerfkin]

every other player is somewhere on the spectrum of "eh could be town" to "most likely town"

explain Feysal/ns/thdgkdms/Kilga

explain no Kagami - I think that opening has a specific goal and I think scum would be worried about a locked in plan like that biting them in the ass if the gamestate evolves in an unexpected way.

I can deal with a lack of a townread on me for my contributions re: your role. This "does muffin have a role that's quantifiably more likely to come from town than scum" is pretty much just theory (albeit game specific theory) and is something I feel I'm just objectively right about; I'd be objectively right about it as scum too.

But since you said "Don't have a town read" rather than "Have a scumread", same question to you as to pie: am I scummy for my opinion on that?

I'm at least sympathetic to the other reads on there

[borkjerfkin]

doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me from the perspective that you're town considering the possibility that i'm scum

I'm not sure what exactly you're trying to say with that assertion, so:

I was saying that the particular point I was making there, (re: why your role in a game like this doesn't mean what Sakura says it means), is a point that I think is correct theorywise, but that's all it was and I didn't expect it to be the focal point that it turned out to be, and I'm not raising my eyebrows that I'm one of a small group you aren't townreading as a result (although at this point I'm frustrated that I'm wasting all my fucking time getting hamstringed into explaining something I don't think needs explaining or is that germane to solving the game)

i don't really think a lot of the way you're going about assessing things so far is coming from a town mindset. mostly because of the way you're phrasing things and the nuances in the things you're saying

Okay? You're wrong, that's a really nebulous accusation, and I don't know what to say that's going to rectify that perception; watch me and I'll watch you watching me

[borkjerfkin]

yes - what you're doing here looks similar to the kind of thing I'd do if I saw someone getting cleared/widely town read and wanted to stop it. specifically I take issue with you claiming things like, "if he's scum he's lying about some aspect of his role" and "we haven't seen the gladiator in action" when in reality this is unreasonable. it makes no sense for someone to make up something like that most of the time, and even if they are there isn't a point in discussing it until it actually comes up.

Ok:
1) Who, besides Sakura, had asserted that the role most likely was town at the point where I disagreed?
2) Why is muffin not being entirely truthful unreasonable (from either alignment)?
3) Is what you really mean is "there's no point in scrutinizing the person fakeclaiming until it is demonstrably proven that they are" or "there's no point in not taking the claim at face value until proven otherwise"
Because I agree with the first statement, disagree with the second, and even if I agreed with the second AND muffin is exactly what he says he is there's

no fucking way for me to discern alignment from that with any degree of accuracy and that's all I've fucking been saying the entire fucking game

I'm just really fucking sick of this conversation

[borkjerfkin]

I'm fully aware that there may be some way to counter it if it's a scum role, but it didn't read like you were employing critical thinking to figure out how his role would make sense as either alignment. I would expect a town approach to go something like "I think X and Y might be potential counters to zmuffin's role as a scum role" (which tbh was my approach when I first saw the claim although I kept, and am keeping, silent about it)

I mean a town dayvig is a potential counter to fucking anything as a scum role if you're seriously talking about logistics of getting someone removed from the game. Even if I hypothesized about "potential counters to X role," that doesn't become even remotely useful until evidence/absence of said counters are claimed. I feel this is really self-evident. I don't setup spec in the frame of a single role and I don't expect anyone else to either and sometimes the most correct thing I can say is "I don't endorse this because I know enough to know that I don't have enough information to correctly do that"
My "at this point in time" was an allusion to the fact that the gamestate could change in a way that nullifies or marginalizes that power.
And I STRAIGHT UP SAID I have voting shenanigans associated with my role.

[borkjerfkin]

do you think "tone" is a good reason to town read me?

For you it's not a bad baseline.

[borkjerfkin]

Shadowy you can't possibly have written either of those comments about me and truly meant them. <_< I don't believe for a second that Town You would actually take #253 seriously. I feel dirty voting for the same person Sakura is voting but the day is still young and it's insulting that you'd think getting angry at me in this fashion would actually accomplish anything.

I'm curious if/when your RVS vote on Shadoweh became a legit scumread

[borkjerfkin]

I'm not sure I understand what MuffinMan has against Bork, although I have my doubts about him.

Assuming I am correctly inferring that I am the 'him' in context: if you don't get/agree with muffin's angle on me, then you must have your own reasons for 'doubting (which means what exactly so we're clear) me'? What are they?

[borkjerfkin]

I could probably get behind a feysal vote.

I want him to get a chance to do things though.

This is exactly how I feel about you right now

[borkjerfkin]

There was also that part about reading Pieguyn based on tone, and I would not presume to do that after last game, not even as a baseline.

Also this is you projecting your experiences onto my approach. Why?

[borkjerfkin]

I'm in Denver on business; won't have high avail but I'll be around at night

[borkjerfkin]

Your focus on MuffinMan. You have spent several posts talking about him and his role, but little else.

Last thing I'm going to say about this: this was entirely due to others asking me about it. Where are you going in regards to how this affects my alignment?

Whose experience should I trust if not my own? I don't agree that it would be wise to town read Pieguyn based on tone, not when she is obviously capable of projecting a town tone as scum.

Opinion noted. but you said:

There was also that part about reading Pieguyn based on tone, and I would not presume to do that after last game, not even as a baseline.

If you personally wouldn't have done that, then fine, but I don't understand why that should affect your read on me. I didn't have to read pie last game - I knew what she was from the beginning of the game. I called her town because it was convenient to do so. I even posted in the scum PT that I was "getting away with townreading pie without anyone questioning why I was". But I generally read pie correctly eventually (disclaimer: haven't seen town-me scum-pie combo since crossroads I don't think?); sometimes I waffle a bit: <continued in response to pie since it's relevant>.

Bottom line: Explain why you're equivocating your personal "unwillingness to read pie via tone because of last game" to anything about me in

this

game in regard to the viability/believeableosity of how I scumhunt/townhunt

[borkjerfkin]

Whose experience should I trust if not my own? I don't agree that it would be wise to town read Pieguyn based on tone, not when she is obviously capable of projecting a town tone as scum.

also ftr this is why i asked

i don't know how you intend to read me based on tone after that game. this is more the case when afaict a large part of your reasoning for town reading me in Forest Fire was for posts similar to the ones i faked D2 of that game. correct me if i'm wrong or if there is some nuance to this i'm missing

1) Why would you assume anything about how I would read you based on a scum-scum game where I made no legitimate effort to actually do that.
2) I fucking hate the argument that "I played pretty well in X game, you should be totally weirded the fuck out by me in this game because of that". Otherwise I have no idea what you're saying -- Forest Fire (me town you town) happened before EoSD (me scum you scum) so what are you talking about?

Like everyone is "capable of projecting a town tone as scum" to some degree. That doesn't just mean "welp scumhunting is worthless let's just fucking pack up and random lynch". I'm obviously being hyperbolic but is your argument seriously that "I think I tonally played well in EoSD therefore you couldn't possibly legitimately think to townread me for that reason here?"

[borkjerfkin]

Borkborkbork: It was still mostly silly in #253 because in every game we play together I am obligated to either hate Shadowy's guts or immediately decide she's town and go all BFF. There wasn't anyone else I cared to vote at that juncture, so I had my fun and went on my merry way. It got serious when I woke up and found she had wigged out over stuff that I had made pretty obvious was not serious; the post you quoted was in reaction to that. (I didn't mention it at the time, but I'm also not sure what is meant by Shadowy saying

"I'm increasingly displeased with Kilga for deciding to stick with a joke vote well past the expiration date once it started to look easy to keep it there"

; surely this cannot be referring to Shadowy's wagon, as Sakura and Keyboardsmash jumped on after I went to bed?)

underlined is a good catch and I think the end of the first paragraph in 274 is a cop-out

[borkjerfkin]

also pie: ns read up to this point thx

[borkjerfkin]

back from business trip; catching up

I could vote Bork.

fucking try it

[borkjerfkin]

seriously dude if you can mislynch me I'll eat my fucking hat

[borkjerfkin]

I also think that scum are generally going to have more daycards, but bork can probably only use one per Day phase, so idk.

Why did you townread me in 178

[borkjerfkin]

I think virtually everything I've done this game I could fake, though.

I don't, and early in the game when I townread someone like I often to with NS I'm ok with questioning that, but I'm finding it really hard to believe that you legitimately think you're just nigh unreadable otheriwse. What's the "one thing you did that you think you could be townread for"?

91 was the post I liked. It was authoritarian and aggressive, and I hate to say it but in EoSD you were pretty much neither until way late in the game when you were under pressure (and even then you pretty much did it in a microcosm of things like the Ranger lynch)

I don't know how else to describe it - it's tone. It was early in the game and that's very often the best I'm gonna have.

[borkjerfkin]

I don't think this is an especially good reason; my opening is kind of objectively scummy in a naive environment and certainly within the realm of my scumplay. It looks like a reaction to the townread.

I don't have a habit of conforming my townreads to people who townread me as either alignment.

and you're like the 5th person to go "durrrrr i could've potentially done this as scum durrrrrrr it's a bs read"

Are

you scum? What did you think I thought besides "you had role information that made the answer relevant?"
Because that is what I thought.

[borkjerfkin]

ns I want you to put, in your own words, why you think I'm scum

[borkjerfkin]

yarp

[borkjerfkin]

nice

[borkjerfkin]

Who does borkums actually think is scum?

T: {muffin, sakura,

relentless

,

sky_paladin

,

kilga

}
N: {gaiden, shadoweh (liked demeanor dealing with muffin, didn't like what kilga pointed out), chalupa, thdgkfmkklfdkvjdflvjkdlfjvklwf (could possibly move up on reread), GIF (could move down; he hasn't done anything)
S: {

ns

,

feysal

}

in progress: pie, kagami

whatever: katsuki

[borkjerfkin]

I could vote Bork.

?

[borkjerfkin]

What are your reads?
I haven't seen you post a single one this game

[borkjerfkin]

This argument has gotten ridiculous. I don't expect you to have an identical approach to mine, but I would expect it to make sense. I don't think it is reasonable to town read someone for behavior they were able to fake as scum, and being partners should have given you an excellent position from which to see her play.

Why do you not think that is reasonable? Again, you're projecting

your

perceptions of people's play on

my

behavior. Why is it self evident that whatever behavior I'm talking about is easy to fake or whatever you're arguing? Go meta pie and show me that I'm just not only obviously wrong, but obviously wrong to a point that you don't think my argument is genuine or "doesn't make sense".

Also:
1) Define what is "able to be faked"? Maybe easier: define a behavior that is not able to be faked.
2) How do you attribute "likelihood of fakeability"

On the whole I think this is just a really dirty accusation and not one that I think pie even tried to argue for long.
Also I hate that you're not even considering I'm town that is, in your opinion, on the wrong track.

VOTE: feysal

[borkjerfkin]

i suppose the biggest issues i have with him atm is that, even with the reads list he gave, i'm not really sure how he arrived at those reads and that i'm not really seeing any sort of game-solving so much as questions that feel rather shallow (or easy to ask).

seriously dude if you've got an issue with my reads then fucking ask for an explanation and you'll get one.

mostly because with a 4x voter expressing willingness to vote him and noddy with his goon squad behind him, it wouldn't actually be all that difficult to make his lynch happen - that sort of grandstanding felt a bit like false bravado in an attempt to come off as sort of indifferent-antipathetic town or something

No; ns hasn't attempted to engage with me or for a read on me the entire game, but yet is positioning himself to vote me after a bunch of other people said he did and that didn't only take me by surprise but it seems like a feeling out or blending in in tactic following others who said they'd vote me
Additionally, he immediately weakened that stance in 636 when I posted 625

[borkjerfkin]

I also think that scum are generally going to have more daycards, but bork can probably only use one per Day phase, so idk.

Why did you townread me in 178

Kagami

[borkjerfkin]

Additionally, he immediately weakened that stance in 636 when I posted 625

Yeah, no.

You're attributing things to my posts I never said- First off, I said I could vote you, because guess what! I am willing to vote people I'm not townreading! That's not a new thing for me!

So, do tell.

There are a whole slew of people you're not townreading, yeah? What makes me special?

[borkjerfkin]

@bork: Daycard speculation only separates out a subset of players that there is probably exactly one scum among, and I don't think it's worth talking about today.

As I said before, I assume you can only use one card per day which makes you different enough that it may be unimportant.

We can circle back to this later, but I have no such restriction (and I don't know where you got that other than the high number of cards I have)

[borkjerfkin]

shows very little in an attempt to actually read me and screams OMGUS.

I've made attempts to engage with you and you've either ignored me or offered cryptic bullshit.
Did I say anywhere that I scumread you because you're voting me? No? then it's not an OMGUS.
Why the fuck should I be townreading you this game?

So why do you comment on me when I'm the topic of conversation and with me when I'm actually pushing you but ignore me the rest of the game?

[borkjerfkin]

We can circle back to this later, but I have no such restriction (and I don't know where you got that other than the high number of cards I have)

Additionally I'm sure I was given exactly seven cards due to my flavor

[borkjerfkin]

But you're right, you didn't explicitly call my vote in particular on you out and then scumread me. My mistake. I must have you confused with some other scumfuck.

I've had a weak scumread on you most of the game (305 is the closest thing to a manifestation of that thought before my reads post); I very clearly didn't just fabricate a scumread out of you from thin air.

I don't care what the meta circle does - as we saw last game, I know how to fuck with the meta circle.

I didn't like the manner in which 618 came in light of others' posts on me; it's just an echo chamber and no one but muffin is actually really attempting to feel me out and I'm betting there's at least one scum in GIF/Sakura/You.

Otherwise I actually like 726.

[borkjerfkin]

i dunno, maybe. I definitely never said that.

[borkjerfkin]

Wrong character

[borkjerfkin]

i caught whatever my kids had; i will be around tonight or tomm if that doesnt happen

hi ffery

[borkjerfkin]

you haven't been around for most of the game so i think this is a bit silly

/stir pot

I don't have an issue with Sakura's entrance.

penny for your thoughts so far

Hey sakura catch this shade

/me throws it

=/

I could probably get behind a feysal vote.

I want him to get a chance to do things though.

This is exactly how I feel about you right now

also pie: ns read up to this point thx [ns immediately responded to this point]

So I expect NS to be sensitive to attempts to read him as town, and super sensitive to even perceived scumreads on him when he's town. I generally expect him to post fluff / deflections when he's scum, and that's how I was reading these responses.

I don't expect the grandstanding I got in 726 as scum so I'm backing off for the moment; I'm still concerned it took him this long to come out to play

[borkjerfkin]

well for starters, a simplified "I think x is scum for reasons a,b,c" would be helpful since it seems like you're reading feysal as scum for projecting or something? and noddy scum for... not interacting with you and calling you scum? there may be other reasons but it's hard to follow the progression on these reads. I know you've talked to them or asked people's opinions of them but I don't see where the scum reads form and why

My stronger reads in the group were:
you - I thought your attempts to engage the majority of the playerlist really early and make judgments about those reads looked really town. I think the way you engaged me looked more inquisitive than an attempt to throw me off balance (see touhou upick 2 where I picked you out as scum instantly for that and proceeded to not get you lynched for the rest of the game)
sakura - I explained this one earlier

weaker reads:

relentless - I liked the push on NS and the frustration with the resistance he's getting seems genuine
sky_paladin: 203 in particular just pinged me as really town (also potential negative connection between him and both of ns/GIF due to constant confusing them)
kilga: eh, just overall like the feel. super candid thought process

contested reads I'm still trying to form:
pie: want a bonfide response to 623
kagami: was trying to figure out why kagami would have the following progression:
1) kagami: "hey I have reason to believe I know how many spellcards scum likely have"
2) me: I have a shitload
3) kagami: I think bork is town
4) kagami: I think scum probably have a high number of cards
I'm curious for demonstrable evidence of what she can do, so I'm gonna let her do whatever she she says she can do and proceed with that info

[borkjerfkin]

hi bork.

What's your GiF read?

Upon reread 149 seems marginally town
I don't really get anything alignment indicative from any of his other posts

[borkjerfkin]

At that point in my readthrough, I felt like it was odd to have a townread of bork in particular and Shadoweh as well.

Really? From skimming my ISO it looked like you liked most of my early posts.

[borkjerfkin]

I'm leaning toward voting either Gaiden or bork.

How the fuck did you get here from your initial catchup posts?

[borkjerfkin]

Anyway ffery I'm around tonight (although I'm watching the bengals game)

[borkjerfkin]

Yeah I was out of town most of the week and didn't end up getting time to post much

but even if that weren't true and I just lurkaderped with no explanation: how does any of that lead up to 848

[borkjerfkin]

Like if this were just a vehicle for engagement I probably wouldn't care

But it's not

It's late in the game day and we're trying to coalesce on a lynch

[borkjerfkin]

Instead, I found that you're scumreading a player I think looked pretty town especially when viewing him against the in-thread behaviors of his neighborhood.

Feysal? Well, unpack that for me because he's been misrepping me pretty much the entirety of the game

[borkjerfkin]

I am unimpressed with that being a reason to vote me

@ffery

[borkjerfkin]

You've expressed a willingness to choose between me and

one

other person so let's just call that what it is.

It's pretty much in your court to convince me I shouldn't.

=/
I realize that you can't just trust that I'm town but this is basically just flipping my questioning of your read on me back at me without having to provide any explanation on why you arrived at a choice between me and gaiden

Who are your townreads btw?

[borkjerfkin]

Do you think I should have been able to drop into this game and form a townread of you based on what you'd posted before I arrived?

I don't know and I hate this question. It's not up to me to tell you how town I am.
Again you're flipping this around on me - if you come in and don't immediately townread me, am I scum?

You're one of the players who didn't take a stance. What should I make of that?

Most of that transpired when I wasn't around, but my stance is:
Your slot hadn't done anything really either way and I am voting the person I want lynched.

And what kind of coalescing is necessary when 3 players represent 11 votes?

This really just sounds like a copout "I can be overridden without really any regard for my voting power so it doesn't matter what I actually do".
Yes, if muffin/gaiden/kagami decide to vote the same person they can lynch any slot they want to. Is that going to happen? Do the way the wagons form suddenly become unimportant?

[borkjerfkin]

My strong townreads are sakura, notsci, zmuffin and sky_paladin.

I got amilder townreads from relentless and GiF and pieguyn.

I am in line with most of these and I hate that you basically just went and cherry picked the one that I didn't agree with you on as a reason to vote me

[borkjerfkin]

It's up to you to show me how town you are. Not tell.

Why did you ask me this then?

[borkjerfkin]

I couldn't tell you were in agreement with me until we started talking tonight.

I posted my reads before tonight

[borkjerfkin]

No, you don't get what I'm actually saying. This is about the data available to me. The lynch would have gone through if I hadn't replaced in. I know my alignment whether the rest of town does or not. I can scumhunt off my wagon, but I'm not sure how to given the megavotes.

Ok I'm losing sight of your original point then because I can't see how this relates to it: rephrase?

[borkjerfkin]

Who does borkums actually think is scum?

T: {muffin, sakura,

relentless

,

sky_paladin

,

kilga

}
N: {gaiden, shadoweh (liked demeanor dealing with muffin, didn't like what kilga pointed out), chalupa, thdgkfmkklfdkvjdflvjkdlfjvklwf (could possibly move up on reread), GIF (could move down; he hasn't done anything)
S: {

ns

,

feysal

}

in progress: pie, kagami

whatever: katsuki

was my initial reads post.

[borkjerfkin]

you're chalupa, in case that's not clear

[borkjerfkin]

Oh and the other thing - I almost forgot - was that you spent so much time arguing that zmuffin's role wasn't a necessarily town role. In all of that, I got no sense until quite late that you were townreading him.

I'm gonna punch a fucking wall because every time I brought that up it was as a response to someone else telling me why I was wrong

Yes, I'm townreading him, but that entire sequence had nothing to do with it and the read came later

[borkjerfkin]

Im around if you want to talk about things

metacircle wise how sure are you on gif?
why are you townreading feysal, gaiden?

[borkjerfkin]

I have no idea what to do with that

[borkjerfkin]

also re: katsuki reads in general; I have never seen Katsuki scum; this behavior is in line with every single Katsuki game I have ever been a part of, so meh, this is a high power game, do some powers.

Only maybe worrying thing is that nobody is even attempting to push him at all, which I would maybe expect to happen if he's town esp with so many people here who don't know him

[borkjerfkin]

I've got essentially no fucks to spend on this game right now so lemme just claim

[borkjerfkin]

UNVOTE:

Blue Sign "Benevolent French Dolls"
Blue Sign "Benevolent Orléans Dolls"
Scarlet Sign "Red-Haired Dutch Dolls"
White Sign "Chalk-White Russian Dolls"
Darkness Sign "Foggy London Dolls"
Cycle Sign "Reincarnating Tibetan Dolls"
Elegant Sign "Spring Kyoto Dolls"

[borkjerfkin]

VOTE: notscience

[borkjerfkin]

oh darn he was town

darn

[borkjerfkin]

I am going to dedicate this night phase to going through the playerlist and saying nice things about everyone

[borkjerfkin]

[borkjerfkin]

(Apologies; I know some of you better than others)

1. pie
You have excellent taste in touhous (you da real remi fan; my favorites kinda rotate based on my mood or whatever) I've had a lot of fun playing with you since you joined my imperishable night game way back when. You have a real knack for the game.

2. Sakura
I've really had a great time working with you in past games; I've been fortunate enough to be able to use you as my 'rock' read in LyLo when I start to get paranoid of everyone else on more than one occasion.

3. zMuffinMan
You have one of the best (if not the best) dry humor schitcks on site. Never change.

4. Shadoweh
Don't know you very well but I consider you one of the important 'old guard' members of the site

5. Sky_Paladin (and 6. Relentless and 13. thghefjhfhjhfwejwjhjwhflhj)
I frankly don't know anything about you all, but I hope to one day be able to say nice things about you all too!

7. GIF
I dig hydraing with you and you've been a cool cat ever since that first Haunted Mansion thing we did on site together way way back when.

8. Gaiden
What sticks out is probably Viscon: Crossroads where you were probably the one player I was absolutely positive was town by the end of the game. I wish we'd have been able to turn that one around.

9. Katsuki
Yes, cupcakes ARE better than muffins.

10. Kagami
Maybe the most impressive setup spec I've ever seen (Nightengale's Tale was the most notable example of this); I still regret pushing so hard on you guys as likely scum in Vesperia and being hilariously wrong, although it turned out not to matter

11. Feysal
Anyone w/ a Frog avatar (where'd that go btw) is cool in my book. I dug your flavor spec in my FF7 game and I am guessing we probably share a lot of similar interests.

12. borkinator
Why the fuck did you have to roll scum this game

14. Kilgamayan
you guys ever check this shit out? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzVZ1yF ... FD822F5718
this is the fucking lord's work right here. Anyway I used to lurk on SM back in the day and remember you as a fixture there; you may have indirectly introduced me to mafia

XX. notscience
o/
sorry buddy. you're still my mason partner.

15. fferyllt
I saved you for last. You're my fav hydra partner and you keep me honest about my reads when we play together and you like good booze and food and you're just the coolest. Thanks for being a shortlist pre-in to all my games after all these years.

Anyway y'all are awesome

I'm not even drunk




yet

[borkjerfkin]

That's in the variety pack they have at costco right now
I'ma get some of that this week

[borkjerfkin]

VOTE: Kilga

[borkjerfkin]

yeah i definitely am ok with releasing the scum pt

[borkjerfkin]

well we didn't kill fferyllt, but yeah i had basically a traditional nightkill; if i were dead that would not have been true

[borkjerfkin]

so I get nothing for sitting there CTRL+F5'ing the thread so I could blitz a lynch on Gaiden, and it wouldn't have mattered anyway bc lol 4 scum.

*ties bork and softly kisses Remi with him watching*

You wish.

hey man don't involve me in this lol

[borkjerfkin]

looks like sky_paladin shot ffery instead of one of the three people who claimed scum yesterday so *shrug*

[borkjerfkin]

was quaking in my boots pregame that i'd have to explain why my spellcards affected the people they affected

and then i ended up not having to explain that

[borkjerfkin]

[22:28] <@Reisen-Udongein-Inaba> >Top 4 suspicions were three scum and Shadowy
[22:28] <@Reisen-Udongein-Inaba> Great success

Maybe I should have actually paid attention to Prims in retrospect.

where does all the cool touhou chat happen on IRC these days?

[borkjerfkin]

While the idea of scum not having a traditional NK was cool, the problem was that scum could easily quicklynch town and be unstoppable. That's pretty much what broke the game imo.

yeah i agree

[borkjerfkin]

to be fair the likelihood of me doing that in a game where i have 3 buddies is pretty damn high

[borkjerfkin]

I'm gonna proudly say that if I was left alive, I would've wrecked havoc.

well we knew what you were up to the whole time

[borkjerfkin]

cause you let scum in your pt

[borkjerfkin]

curious what FG would've done had i picked kaguya again

would kagami have gotten that "if kaguya is in the game she is definitely not on your team" clause like I got in upick 2?

[borkjerfkin]

oh i dunno then

[borkjerfkin]

[22:28] <@Reisen-Udongein-Inaba> >Top 4 suspicions were three scum and Shadowy
[22:28] <@Reisen-Udongein-Inaba> Great success

Maybe I should have actually paid attention to Prims in retrospect.

where does all the cool touhou chat happen on IRC these days?

You get the occasional bout of Mafia discussion activity in #motktown on irc.ppirc.net, but the channel is mostly used these days for bitching about misfortunes in fantasy football and laughing at misfortunes in real football.

Which may be right up your alley regardless.

I see you're watching the bengals too

[borkjerfkin]

PRIME TIME BENGALS are actually making a game of it! I'm impressed.

*breathes into bag more*

[borkjerfkin]

whooo the bungles are back

[borkjerfkin]

You win when number of Mafia-aligned players alive are greater than or equal to the number of Town-aligned players alive.