MAFIACEPTION GAME OVER! Flawless Victory!

[Porochaz]

vote Fro99er

[Porochaz]

Yeah, not reading anything into that, slightly scummy if anything, outting that information this early benefits scum much more than it does town. It helps direct their efforts. I think we have to play this as a normal mafia game as much as possible.

EDIT: also I assume glork is being more subtle than that with the voting mechanics.

[Porochaz]

We know there is a advantage if a faction wins a level. Scum have more info than town on the basis they know who scum is. Therefore if we out this information then scum can start focusing on those inner game people.

[Porochaz]

Does that mean titus gets 3 votes?

[Porochaz]

Does that mean titus gets 3 votes?

Lols, like really...

What if I proxy to Katsuki? #mindblown.

I assume we will be able to suddenly be able to divide by 0.

[Porochaz]

Yeah, not reading anything into that, slightly scummy if anything, outting that information this early benefits scum much more than it does town. It helps direct their efforts. I think we have to play this as a normal mafia game as much as possible.

EDIT: also I assume glork is being more subtle than that with the voting mechanics.

Come now Poro this is a discussion. You should know better.

I thought maybe it might catch scum in a lie at best but I'm good with waiting for now keeping the numbers in my head on likely hood of breakdown.

Im taking it as a null-tell, Im not stupid enough to declare you scum this early two games in row!

[Porochaz]

And that my friend, is the answer I was going to give. It doesn't matter.

Just like this question in relation to this game. Is that the aim? I mean farside was trying to get out of RVS quickly, why are you trying to get back in there?

[Porochaz]

And that my friend, is the answer I was going to give. It doesn't matter.

Just like this question in relation to this game. Is that the aim? I mean farside was trying to get out of RVS quickly, why are you trying to get back in there?

You dodged the question. You claim my answer was yours, but gave no reasoning. You dodging the question clearly shows that you realize I have something more than RVS banter in mind, and yet you claim that I'm trying to move the game backwards. A little self-contradictory don't you think?

As stated in this thread by others, by Christopher Nolan himself and my interpretation of it, it doesn't matter because in the film he doesn't stay and watch the top but my answer was two fold, as in, this line of questioning seems useless. Now, the onus is on you to explain why it is relevant, because this just seems like trying to attribute a meaning to semi-random bullshit instead of actually producing some content and to be honest, I've just been through a game of that, and I would just cut right through the shit. Especially since farside already did a better job than you to get out of RVS and you have essentially tried to pull her back.

[Porochaz]

Well, Bulba's entrance is crap.

Cobb's talisman isn't the top. That was Mal's talisman. If you watch the movie closely, you will note that his talisman is actually his wedding ring, which he only has in the dream and which he rotates around his finger several times while in various levels of the dream state. The wedding ring is not present in the final scene.

As for the point, that's still ongoing.

See, this feels like your pointlessly trying to one up people, by your interpretation of the movie rather than anything else. (Your theory is just a theory, especially since others touch his ring - this was admittedly a quick lookup on that theory) As far as I can see, it has nothing to do with the game.

Why these two?

Because while there are some players in here that're town and some players that I can't lock down yet, those two are scum.

Yeah, I know it's early but for reads that are as sure as you made them, I need you to expand more than that.

I mean like I doubt you read each of those posts and naturally thought of those things to say about each one of them.

Why do you say that? You think I contrived those things?

I should just go back to my spamposting ways then. Apparently trying to be productive gets me scumread.

Actually, I liked your first post. I do understand people thinking you are coming off a bit strong. It's the kind of post I see people making 20/30 pages down the line. However as this is page 4, you are reading a lot into posts made early on in what is RVS/whatever this is. But it shows you are thinking and forming reads, and anything is better than spamming.

I haven't forum-played with you so I don't know what kind of spamming you do, but I think I prefer this style of posting.

[Porochaz]

Oooh. First mention of the p word. I'll note that down. Page 4. Early.

[Porochaz]

Oooh. First mention of the p word. I'll note that down. Page 4. Early.

Is that a good thing or a bad thing...? What's your opinion on my post?

Gut reaction is "Ew". I don't like link forming this early with little to no information. But I do understand how you are forming the link, so it's not awful, but I do think you are jumping the gun a little. I liked your post 96 regardless, I hate definitives, I hate the fact that he changed his vote from Marquis to Mario because Marquis told him to, I hate his read on ABR, despite the fact ABR hasn't done anything noteworthy and I hate that despite being so definitive (my word of the day) he didn't even acknowledge Drixx since.

The whole spiel shows no consistency or confidence in his reads, which in terms of confidence - it's page 4, I don't expect any - but in terms of consistency, there has to be some acknowledgement that you aren't voting your strongest scum read. Otherwise it looks like you are pulling reads out of your ass.

So yeah, where am I with you? I like you, I don't particularly like post 99, but I would subscribe to your newsletter. Fancy telling me about some of your first thoughts about the other players?

@Bulba, I want to know the why's behind all of your reads, particularly the ABR one.

[Porochaz]

Just woke up, saw everyone was voting bulba so I read his ISO.
I hate it.
VOTE: bulba

This vote is horrible. Why do you hate it?

[Porochaz]

Wish I had asked you that before I made my post.

Meh. Fine.

[Porochaz]

Heh fro99ers posts give me a slight mollie vibe. I am very interested in a scientific mollie. For erm... scientific reasons.

[Porochaz]

Urgh, that wagon is awful.

[Porochaz]

I'd rather use my vote to make the above guy do something rn.

thats very transparent of you.
tell me why blatant opportunism is scummier than subtle opportunism.

Where is this opportunism?

[Porochaz]

anatole vs pere.
the supposed potential scum-motivations in both of their votes.

Ah right, I thought you were referring to Ri there and I didn't see it.

[Porochaz]

Ok I don't see the opportunism in Pere's vote either, think Ri is Ri-ding (I'm sorry) to much into it. Looks RVSish to me.

To answer your questions, god your posting style is going to get to me sooner rather than later,

I don't know much about Titus, I can't remember if I've played with her before. (or many people in this game) She has a good reputation. I don't like 2 players proxied to her, but the way she has used those votes doesn't seem awful, more like she is messing around, voting herself. Hence my jokey response. But I don't have a proper read on her yet.

As for why you shouldn't change your vote to either of us. I don't know why you would, but you have expressed suspicion on me before, so a vote might be a good use of your time if you have reasons. I'd be happy to respond. As for Titus, I don't know, I don't see anything scummy yet, you obviously do, so tell me about that.

[Porochaz]

Farside, this was one of the problems I had with you last game and why I thought you were scum. (Oldie Mafia) I think you read things to quickly and misinterpret them.

Others have explained what happened clearly, if you are going to vote anyone for that reason, try this post -

Vote Marquis

Gorkington and Frogger are probably town. Mario is probably scum.

Drixx is definitely scum.

No clue on Porochaz. Farside, Spiffeh, and Titus are town.

Admittedly I stopped reading around Frogger's post, because I'm tired. I'll look at it when I'm at work tomorrow. I might also decide to setup spec if Farside is still into it, because you all seem to not understand what's going on. Although that does remind me that Dong is town.

Will kinda be floating around for a few minutes. I don't promise to be in my right mind.

[Porochaz]

snip

I had assumed that two players proxy-ing to you said a lot in itself. That said I assume Katsuki was sheeping ABR for the lolz there.

General murmerings besides that.

Have I played with you before. I get the feeling I have but no game is coming to me...

[Porochaz]

I think I was looking at one of your most recent mods, thinking about replacing in and I was asking someone about you and you replaced into BSG Mafia, after I died, maybe that was it? I dunno.

[Porochaz]

@ricastle, I am usually wagoned by now as town. I am thinking about why I wouldn't be. First thing that comes to mind is scum needed a wifom free counterwagon.

So you have no problem throwing the vote Kat entrusted to you somewhere you know for a fact is detrimental to town?

You are starting to make me regret putting my faith in a you as strong townread early on. Not sure A. why you think Pere's vote is something more than it is, and why proxyKats vote is something more than it is?

While I'm complaining, Mario, the only thing your case is doing is making you look like scum. A case purely based on content sucks giant badger testicles.

My fro99er vote is out of date,

vote: Drixx

That may change when my questions come back.

[Porochaz]

When I say content I mean quantity not quality in regards to Mario/Spiffeh, as clarification

[Porochaz]

Should I not let him know that I'm growing impatient for him to respond? I have something I want to say but no way am I going to say it before he explains himself.

Nah, you right.

But you said it wrong.

[Porochaz]

I'll be completely honest, mine wasn't random. I wanted to see what happened with you and others if your wagon got built up a bit. It seemed like a useful strategy with lots of newer players and those I haven't played much with. It didn't really yield much, you didn't panic, and reacted with a logically slightly-jumping-the-gun post, so made you seem town. Didn't really get much from other players as focus was shifted elsewhere.

[Porochaz]

Oh yeah, I realise now. But I wanted to ensure you know exactly what Ri was responding to.

Im happy with my Drixx vote.

[Porochaz]

Yay, something to respond to. Let's see.

Alright, I've had this nagging feeling Porochaz is scum, and I haven't been able to shake it. It started here...

Yeah, not reading anything into that, slightly scummy if anything, outting that information this early benefits scum much more than it does town. It helps direct their efforts. I think we have to play this as a normal mafia game as much as possible.

EDIT: also I assume glork is being more subtle than that with the voting mechanics.

Come now Poro this is a discussion. You should know better.

I thought maybe it might catch scum in a lie at best but I'm good with waiting for now keeping the numbers in my head on likely hood of breakdown.

Im taking it as a null-tell, Im not stupid enough to declare you scum this early two games in row!

Clearly this has some history behind it, and that Porochaz scumread Farside early on in a prior game. I feel like he knows she's town here and isn't "stupid enough to declare [her] scum" this time becuase he knows she's town and doesn't want to go down that road...just kind of a gut vibe I got from that post.

It's for the reasons, which I touched upon as well. I declared farside as scum pretty early on in Oldie Mafia, on a case that was about word choice opportunism. It was compounded later with misunderstandings and emotional tells, what it taught me about playing with farside is that I have to take a step back when reading her, because in that game, in the end, we were both town. Which is what I'm saying here, with farside I'm not going to rush into reading her as scum or town.

Oooh. First mention of the p word. I'll note that down. Page 4. Early.

I didn't see the point in this post. It felt like trying to throw suspicion on Ricastle. Ricastle follows up in 111 by questioning Porochaz on it, then P-chaz kind of backs off when he's challenged in 114

Yep, it's a crappy post. Happy to admit that one. I don't like people linking people early on with no evidence. I feel quite often it isn't conducive to good scum hunting. That said, a lot of my game is based on going back over and rereading things because one of my weaknesses is not taking things in a larger context and jumping on small things. When questioned I went back and read more carefully.

Just woke up, saw everyone was voting bulba so I read his ISO.
I hate it.
VOTE: bulba

This vote is horrible. Why do you hate it?

Notes that P-chaz thinks pepto's vote is horrible...

Urgh, that wagon is awful.

And that the Bulba wagon is awful...

No. You missed the point of this post. In 138, Titus used proxy!Kat's vote to wagon herself, I was referring to that wagon being awful, not the Bulba one. That post had nothing to do with Bulba. It was a joke in relation to Titus.

Yet...

Farside, this was one of the problems I had with you last game and why I thought you were scum. (Oldie Mafia) I think you read things to quickly and misinterpret them.

Others have explained what happened clearly, if you are going to vote anyone for that reason, try this post -

Vote Marquis

Gorkington and Frogger are probably town. Mario is probably scum.

Drixx is definitely scum.

No clue on Porochaz. Farside, Spiffeh, and Titus are town.

Admittedly I stopped reading around Frogger's post, because I'm tired. I'll look at it when I'm at work tomorrow. I might also decide to setup spec if Farside is still into it, because you all seem to not understand what's going on. Although that does remind me that Dong is town.

Will kinda be floating around for a few minutes. I don't promise to be in my right mind.

...encourages Farside that if she is voting someone for that reason then she should vote for Bulba. P-chaz even took the effort to underline the "Drixx is definitely scum" part. while true that if farside should be voting someone for that reason it should be Bulba, why encourage Farside toward a wagon you hate? That part I don't get.

There was a misunderstanding. She had thought that Ricastle had said it, when it was Bulba. I'm stating fact there, not opinion. I am not encouraging her to do anything. That said, I don't hate the Bulba wagon, I considered joining it and was going to dependant on Bulbas answer to my question, (which he didn't answer, got to go back and ask again), I did hate Pepto's vote onto that wagon, which didn't seem thought through and was opportunistic, but beyond that, no issue with the Bulba wagon.

[Porochaz]

Still here
Still have a town Role PM

You are starting to annoy me,

It's time to make a case not based on quantity of content.

[Porochaz]

I'm getting tired of this prevailing thought of anybody with reads in the early game must be scum. That's just lazy. Questioning me on it I get. That wagon though was scum led. As far as Ricastle, I said that I was a little unsure there too. I just have gotten some bad vibes, but I may be biased. I'm not too interested in looking there now, but I do think that there's another scum besides Mario on me, and we'll need to refer to the wagon later to find them.

I don't have an issue with scumreads early what I have an issue with is being absolutely sure of your reads that early.

You called Drixx definite scum. That's a very assured statement. One that I don't think you can have that early as town.

@Bulba, I want to know the why's behind all of your reads, particularly the ABR one.

Actually, you did answer this in 210. Ok so in 82 you voted Marquis, you say in 210 that you "town harded" on him and changed your vote accordingly but the only post made from Marquis in that time was 89 -

sorry bulba but you're wrong.

would be best if u cut this off here.

Can you tell me how this post changed your mind?

The only thing that kept me from voting there is that I have misread Drixx in the past, and I am more confident in my belief of scum being somewhere in that block of 4 voters.

But you called him definite scum. If you have misread him in the past, why call him definite scum? Surely there is a contradiction there? I mean you already used "probably town" to describe Gorkington and Frogger and "probably scum" for Mario, so despite your misgivings there had to be a stronger feeling in regards to Drixx.

I am trying to work out your thought process here, because your explanation is inconsistent with what you are actually saying. You don't call someone definite scum and others only probably scum when you have fears that you are going to misread them.

I get your point in regards to ABR, which makes sense and was the person I was most interested in, thanks. However, from ABR's point of view, if he is V/LA, I can see why he would proxy the vote over, to see what she would do with it.

(as an aside, I hate proxy-ing)

[Porochaz]

Why is dong town?

Why isnt he, officer?

anatole vs pere.
the supposed potential scum-motivations in both of their votes.

Meh
Pere guys vote didnt alerted me but anatoles vote was shitty
So i guess pere null anatole guy slight scummy

i was wrong apparently
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Bulbazak

Backtrack harder

That isn't my post 151 you have quoted. I'm not sure what you are saying there in any case. Can you reformat this post for me?

[Porochaz]

Hi Kat,

You back?

By the looks of it, you are trimming the fat from your posts. I will miss those words of yours.

[Porochaz]

Will you really?

p-edit: @porozac

Yeah, I can't read you otherwise.

[Porochaz]

vote: dongempire

because poro can be a tonight problem.

Urgh, I've dealt with so much crap today, that I didn't want to post in this thread, as there is a number of people that I need to yell at here.

But you've done it. You have poked me so much that I feel special and violated all at the same time.

You are like a bad case of constipation and you need to either shit or get off the pot.

So make your case, because I don't actually believe you have one.
(and you'd please Spiffeh as well, who did ask before and then decided to vote me anyway, in what must take the Golden Globe award for scummy ass manoeuvres - it would give him a case as well!)

[Porochaz]

because poro is probably also scum but i dont want to read his posts right now and figure out why.

Good. Glad I was correct on that one.

[Porochaz]

Hi Kat,

You back?

By the looks of it, you are trimming the fat from your posts. I will miss those words of yours.

Ugh garbage. Take a stance on me. I am going to get wagoned to claim anyway.

Decide whether I am town or scum now. No fence shitting.

And what makes you think you are centre of the fucking universe?

Fine. Let's take a look at you then.

You have made no real effort to analyse or question anyone, you have a high post count but low content ratio, when things started to get tough for you, you immediately went on V/LA "until 1000 posts" which isn't an "I'm ill" or "I'm moving house" that's an "oh shit, Im getting pressure" V/LA.

Newsflash, I feel fake as town.

Does that include fake v/la's?

Lots of self-meta, which as we all know, you can change.

So, you don't want me to "fence shit" (or sit) in terms of you. Fine, you are scum, and I can't think why you would want to draw attention to yourself unless it was to pull my focus away from something else.

But hey, since you asked so nicely, let's deal with you first.

vote Titus

[Porochaz]

Lower your expectations and it's really not that bad in here.
Actually why you so pissy?

Can't say. Nothing to do with this game.

[Porochaz]

Not unless there is nothing else to go on. Gut can help but it should not be used as a case in itself. It's not a tangible reason, it's an excuse.

I'm angry, as you may be aware, so my feelings are slightly getting the better of me. My main reason is because she called me out. It's weird she would draw my focus away from other people, in this instance I was questioning Bulba about 15 posts before her post. What benefit does that have for town-titus or scum-titus? I mean I am genuinely asking you, so you think about it.

Town titus, I don't know, when people are focusing on her being scum, why draw more attention to yourself? That could lead to more votes and a mislynch. Scum-titus? Maybe I'm poking my nose in places I shouldn't? Maybe she is trying to deflect attention away from her? I don't really know, but I see a lot more scum motivation for her to rope me into your conversation than to leave me out of it.

I wasn't really paying attention to the Titus conversation because I was off performing my own investigations, I for instance, am a lot more interested in the people like Dong, Drixx and Katsuki, who hang in the background, as there is usually scum hanging around back there, not coming into focus as the more vocal town members argue between themselves, I like to spend some time on Bulba, who I don't think has adequately explained his early day postings. It's certainly often been my strategy as scum. I plan to talk to people like but not limited to) Ranger and Tammy at some point, who have had no impact on the game yet whatsoever. (and I like to think I can read Tammy well, so I don't like it when she hangs back, even if there is RL things going on) I am also waiting to see what version of ABR we get in here, because that will know doubt determine what kind of game this is. I can always look back at Titus later, but isn't it better, particularly in early game, to be looking at as many avenues as possible?

[Porochaz]

I could do Porochaz as well. His wall is nothing but a long fenceshit on me while criticizing Cork for the same thing on him.

Firstly, it's fence-sit. Fence shit is something totally different. I pity your neighbours if you are getting the two mixed up.

Secondly,

Hi Kat,

You back?

By the looks of it, you are trimming the fat from your posts. I will miss those words of yours.

Ugh garbage. Take a stance on me. I am going to get wagoned to claim anyway.

Decide whether I am town or scum now. No fence shitting.

And what makes you think you are centre of the fucking universe?

Fine. Let's take a look at you then.

You have made no real effort to analyse or question anyone, you have a high post count but low content ratio, when things started to get tough for you, you immediately went on V/LA "until 1000 posts" which isn't an "I'm ill" or "I'm moving house" that's an "oh shit, Im getting pressure" V/LA.

Newsflash, I feel fake as town.

Does that include fake v/la's?

Lots of self-meta, which as we all know, you can change.

So, you don't want me to "fence shit" (or sit) in terms of you. Fine, you are scum, and I can't think why you would want to draw attention to yourself unless it was to pull my focus away from something else.

But hey, since you asked so nicely, let's deal with you first.

vote Titus

Is not fence sitting of any kind.

See the vote.

See the points made against you, particularly the fake v/la one, it's the one I like most.

Not fence sitting or shitting or sharting or accidentally letting one off as I sit at all.

But you can add, "not reading" to the list.

[Porochaz]

@ABR, Buzz me if you're in my area?

Meanwhile Tammy's probably town. I think there's a mistake here. Those in the inner game are also in the outer game. So the inner game would logically resolve first I think.

@Poro,

The v/LA being "fake" is misleading. I was totally transparent in what I did. Was I actually v/LA? Nope. Taking a v/LA to maintain composure in a thread is a ok in my book. I was chewed out for that though and rolling with it.

Still scummy as fuck though.

Your next post talks about "Town Titus" and that you're not paying attention.

I mean I am genuinely asking you, so you think about it.

Town titus,

I don't know, when people are focusing on her being scum, why draw more attention to yourself? That could lead to more votes and a mislynch.

Scum-titus?

Maybe I'm poking my nose in places I shouldn't? Maybe she is trying to deflect attention away from her? I don't really know, but I see a lot more scum motivation for her to rope me into your conversation than to leave me out of it.

This is the tenor of that post. It screams "I don't get Titus" not "I think Titus us scum".

In this part of the post I look at the motivations for doing what you did. I start by asking

why

you as town would do what you did, I then move onto why you would do it as scum. As you can see, my conclusion is that as town you do not have any motivation for me to look at you. As scum, you potentially do. Hence, I think you are scum and I am, in fact, paying attention.

[Porochaz]

calling poro out for backtracking. still hasnt voted anyone

Not including my random vote I've voted for two people?

[Porochaz]

Poro, why no response to my vote on you with no reasoning?

I assumed you were going to give reasons eventually, or when you finished your reread, or you were just trolling. But since you brought attention to it I assume you have reasons?

[Porochaz]

I like a significant portion of your case. It's well thought out and does highlight some deficiencies in my play. However I don't think a lot of what you said is scummy, and also in regards to post 215 it's not clear, but I am actually talking to Frogger there, not Bulba, so I thought he might panic a little, particularly if people voted after me.

I did have a response to Bulba, because I wasn't satisfied with the question he did answer here -

sorry bulba but you're wrong.

would be best if u cut this off here.

Can you tell me how this post changed your mind?

No.

My issue is that I still don't think the inconsistencies have been explained fully and there is one thing voting Marquis over Drixx, but then voting Mario, which doesn't really still explain his repeated statements that Drixx is scum.

Anyway continuing on, in regards to farside, I think it's in regards to perspective. I never thought farside was scummy, I did say right before it "I'm not reading anything into that", because A. she is an experienced player and B. recent experience means that I read her as scummy to easily. She, as you may have read in relation to me, has the same feelings with me. I dont agree that I inferred farside did something pro-town with her actions early on, I was just stating what she did.

98, I was agreeing, and what's more I have expanded on that in my questions towards him. If I was wanting to fit in I would have voted him, I wanted to show that I had noted it, and would (and did) if necessary expand on it. As I've stated previously, people were dealing with that at the time, I was dealing with other things. When people started accepting that case, when I was still not satisfied, (frogger I think) that was when I dropped in. As for Ranger, she has posted so infrequently, I forgot about her.

I agree with your point about 100, it was a knee jerk reaction and I did have to backtrack. 114 was explaining it, I think linking people together with no information is a very dangerous game to play. I also have a history with hating definitives. So you can call it waffling but in that instance I felt I had to explain myself and Im not sure how I could have done it differently?

In regards to Pepto I didn't know where to go with that, I, myself answered the exact same question in 114, all he had to do was look up and parrot me or he could have been genuine. So I left it alone. I wasn't happy about it, hence why I replied at all, the Fine as can be seen from the context of the post was not a sunshine and daisies and puppies "fine", it was a "not really fine, fine"

As I say, 215 was in relation to frogger, I've always thought the bulba wagon was fine.

Mario I meant to go back to, I got distracted last night. I will remind you that between my post asking him that question and last night was about 24 hours and in that time he made a single post.

So I mean I find your case to be alright, but a lot of it I think is based on perspective, for instance, I dont think I have been waffling. I don't think you'll notice much difference between that and my recent games. I also think you might be being a bit impatient, the game only started 5 days ago.

[Porochaz]

than definite Drixx scum?

And the fact that you still haven't explained why you changed your mind from Marquis to Mario.

[Porochaz]

Im trying to work out whether your initial reads came from your brain or your ass, given your responses I think I know.

[Porochaz]

I thought you did?

[Porochaz]

Prefer his short posts tbh and you can tell from the quote numbers.

[Porochaz]

Honestly I'm more likely to not miss things this way

[Porochaz]

About 5 minutes away from sleep but if I need to I'll respond in the morning

[Porochaz]

Lots of self-meta, which as we all know, you can change.

Can we lynch this?

It's true. I say something along those lines in every game. If you say "that's my scum meta" then you know what it is and you can work on changing it.

Also I do get the irony of me saying that I say it every game. It's not alignment indicative.

[Porochaz]

No chaos

[Porochaz]

I will try and respond to folk tomorrow, but as some of you may be able to tell I've had a bit of a shit time of it recently, so I'll make my post tomorrow then I will have to disappear for a few days to sort myself out. I'll be back afterwards, but if you need any questions answered I would ask now as I might not get to them until tuesday/wednesday.

[Porochaz]

I've tried with this thread over the past day or two but my anger has dissipated into something else and I've realised that I don't have much to say in response to Tammys post, and CO's post I probably should respond to CO but I should point out that when I say perspective I mean our experiences that lead up to this game rather than this game itself. A lot of my rebuttals would have been around the lines of being impatient and you are being quibbly, which aren't great arguments but I do think they hold at least a little weight. But a lot of my play has been influenced by real life crap (mainly) and it came to a head this weekend and whilst not an excuse to a reason why you shouldn't vote me, I can't say my play hasn't been affected by it.

It's past for now(mostly) but as I said, my anger has given way to a sadness type of thing, which I need to get rid of and put this past week or so behind me. So I said in an earlier post Im taking a few days break from this site as a whole (except maybe a votecount or two in my own game), I'll be back Wednesday or Thursday, where I will try and press the reset button on myself, as much as I can, and look at the game in my happy, sunny outlook.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=61545 - most recent town game
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=53159 - most recent scum game

mod, I am V/LA until Thursday, I proxy my vote to Fro99er, unless he tries to vote me with my vote

[Porochaz]

Right, Im back and Im going to do a quick reread, and try and get a handle on this game.

But laughably having been away because I needed to "get happy" it's fun that I come back and immediately come back and get pissed off.

I was away farside, I posted my v/la and all I was doing on site was posting votecounts in my own game. It was not active lurking.

[Porochaz]

Where I was actively posting?

[Porochaz]

Yeah, piss off farside.

[Porochaz]

You are out of line.

I mean regardless of what you fucking think, its a shitty thing to say.

[Porochaz]

Ok putting my anger aside and resisting the urge to make the expletive filled post you deserve -

You have been through a whole heap of shit in the past whilst you have been in games. Haven't you? Now, how the hell would you feel, if someone turned around and said it was fake. I mean, EVEN if I did think it was fake, what if it's not? Do you think it's fucking wise to start winding them up in any case? I thought you were a better person than that.

[Porochaz]

if you cant handle someone thinking youre faking something in a game where 25% of the people playing are guaranteed to be faking everything theyre doing then maybe mafia just isnt your cup of tea?

Tell me that after 8 years of playing the game.

It's the fact that it questions my integrity which having played and modded with me multiple times over the years, she should know that I wouldn't do that. Bringing outside shit into the game the way I have, is not something that should/would be faked (by me). I know some do, so if it was a player that hadn't played with me before, fine, it'll make me pissed and I'll tell them exactly what I said in this paragraph, but it's understandable, farside knows me and I would consider her one of my more favourite people on site so what she is saying is just really shitty.

Im on page 6 of my reread just now, not that I particularly want to read anymore. At the moment it's the fact that I have not replaced out in any game in my time here, that is keeping me in this and the fact that I love Glork-games. It's not excuses, YOU brought it up, I was ready to play this game with a different mindset. Remind me, farside to 1. Tell you how much you are faking things the next time you have whatever crisis, and be as fucking uncaring as you are being right now and 2. at the end of the game, remind me to PM you, and tell you exactly what happened, because I want you to know exactly how damaging your comments can be. Because you seem to have forgotten the rule "don't be a dick".

Now I agree, lets get on with the game.

[Porochaz]

Pages 1 - 25

The way I did this was by page and I marked down things I didn't like.

1. fro99er
- A lot has been made about post 67. I’ve read through it properly again, and it a bit much for page 3, but it does contain good points within it and as a early day 1 vote, it’s not bad. I think the people who attacked this are jumping on something that they shouldn’t.
- Fro99er makes a good point about Bulba not reading his post but thinking he is town, something I (and others) missed
- P6 Urgh, backbone Fro99er
- P6 I think this is where my feelings on Fro99er started initially, my feelings on connections day 1 is well documented in this thread, and I should have pointed this out. 134 is not a good post.
-

@Frogger

What is your opinion on meta?
- 587, I never pushed farside to vote Drixx. I pointed it out clearly so she noticed. But I explained that I didn’t do that. I don’t like the way you brought that up -1

Total - -1

2. Peptobislawl BBMolla
- Pepto’s first post is incredibly lazy -1
- 460 is horrible.

"early" tomorrow. So much for that.

Regarding Bulba and Mario, I feel like at least one of them is scum. I'm leaning toward Mario as his posting has been, frankly, terrible, and his vote and reasoning seems opportunistic, considering Bulba had a wagon at the time. That, and bulba has improved his posting since I voted for him. VOTE: Mario. He's at 8/12 now so vote carefully, no nead to lynch early.

Titus, He could also be scum, but I'm not as confident. The fake V/LA was bad. There seems to be a lot of meta floating around, and I haven't been around this site long enough to follow along, though. If anyone wants to sum all that up real quick that would be appreciated.

Regarding 430, I had read the whole thread at the time, but I often ISO people to get a better feel of them, which is what I did then.

- It’s the cautiousness of it, are people really going to accidentally lynch at 8/12 -1

Total = -2 + -1 for being under the radar = -3

3. Anatole Kuragin
- P5 Hate this fro99er vote as well. -1
- P19 Back after long absence, bad vote -2

Nothing good here. + -1 for being under the radar

Total = -4

4. Stodav ChaosOmega

Total = 0

5. farside22
- P3 Need to check farsides stance on meta from previous games, because I don’t remember her being against it. (Also it is stupid to be against it)
- P16, Hey thats interesting, I brought it in game initially because farside asked.
- Post 575, farside suggests voting me to spiffeh, despite not scumreading me there -1

Total = -1

6. Titus
- P4 A lot to call Bulb out on but does so on the potshot against ABR, wouldn’t be voting him for that -1
- P4 Titus see’s the main scumminess in that post on her reread, can’t say much about that, because I do that often.
- P11 Titus’s response to the case isn’t great -1
- P11 Goes V/LA via post count which given recent events, farsides response sucks ass given what I’ve just been arguing -2
- P12 Titus makes me comment on her. -1
- P18, what is ABR doing with her vote?

Total = -5

7. PeregrineV
- Pere votes Fro99er with no reason, -1

Total = -1

8. Porochaz
- 553 is unintentionally harsh, I also need to use grammar more.

9. Gorkington
- P4 Did he ever make a case on me or just rely on others?
- P16 Glad I called Gork out on it. -1
- 445-447, I realise its a joke, but it feels really off. A bit too pandering -1

Total = -2

10. Spiffeh
- P2 Commenting on Mario’s activity on page 2, its jumping the gun a bit -1
- P3 Attacks Fro99er not good reasoning. -1
- P16 Spiffeh votes me with no reason -1
- Spiffeh’s 576 was even worse than farsides 575.
- Retract that, he asks about 575.

Total = -3

11. Albert B. Rampage

Been V/LA most of the day, it's been announced but as he has had no impact at all and barely any posts. I need some content from him, because even with the v/la I would expect something decent from him as town. -2

Total = -2

12. Dongempire
- P12 Dong hasn’t done much and his vote on page 12 for Mario, for 1 post that just says he is town is meh -1
- Retroactive losing a point for not posting anything useful himself, but having done so regularly. -1
- P16 I struggle to read his posts.
- P19 Don’t like the response towards Gork. Does he actually think Gork is scum? -1

Total = -3

13. Drixx
- P2 Drixx goes on the Inception tack, which I still don’t understand. -1
- Continues it -1
- P9 Not hugely happy with Drixx’s unvote, considering his content thus far.

Total = -2

14. Bulbazak
- P4 Post 82, is the scummy “definitely” post, not only for the contradiction I’ve mentioned before but the vote before reading the small thread. The fact he is “floating” around but not reading the thread is a bit shifty. -1
- P4 Post 90, when he inexplicably changes his vote -1
- P5 Fro99er makes a point about Bulba’s stance on him, despite not reading his actual post -1
- I remember Tammy, telling me that Im focusing on this too much but that no answer in 321 is really, really getting to me. -1
- P20 And that continues with 493.

Total = -4

15. Katsuki
- P4 Forgot Katsuki was in this game.

At this point, just under half way Kat has made 6 posts, in the next half he makes 4, 2 of which are smilies, this content is less than the nothing Kat usually plays. Anyone remember he was in this game? -3

16. ZZZX hiplop

Been ill, can't say anything thus far.

Total = 0 but with the caveat as there isn't anything to say.

17. Tammy
- I missed 430, it kind of explains her stance more.
- P25 I’m not sure where I berated you for not posting, I’ll need to look at this, because if I did, I didn’t mean to. That said, Im not going to let the Bulba thing go. There is something off.

Total = 0

18. Ranger
-

Why these two?

Because while there are some players in here that're town and some players that I can't lock down yet, those two are scum.

- This is P3, jumping the gun -1
- P10 Rangers next posts are unwhelming. -1

Under the radar -1

Total = -3

19. Ricastle

Total = 0

20. MarioManiac4
- P6 Mario makes his content case against Spiffeh -1
- P8 Case continues -1

The fact I don't have anything on Mario after this is worrying especially because with some of the others that I don't have much on, I have town points against them. I don't with Mario.

Total = -2

21. Marquis
- P3 Marquis makes a good point about proxying, it’s something I have felt, I don’t like the rule.
- P3 Marquis attacks fro99er for post 67, but its meta reasoning, which kind of blurs the line a bit, I don’t have a meta read on frog, so I can’t attest for how town/scum it is.
- P5 Marquis returns the favour and defends Bulba, there is something weird going on here -1
- P5 Not happy with the reasoning Marquis gives for finding Bulba scum but it’s not scummy in itself

Total = -1

[Porochaz]

Pages 1 - 25

The way I did this was by page and I marked down things I didn't like.

1. fro99er

- A lot has been made about post 67. I’ve read through it properly again, and it a bit much for page 3, but it does contain good points within it and as a early day 1 vote, it’s not bad. I think the people who attacked this are jumping on something that they shouldn’t.
- Fro99er makes a good point about Bulba not reading his post but thinking he is town, something I (and others) missed
- P6 Urgh, backbone Fro99er
- P6 I think this is where my feelings on Fro99er started initially, my feelings on connections day 1 is well documented in this thread, and I should have pointed this out. 134 is not a good post.
-

@Frogger

What is your opinion on meta?
- 587, I never pushed farside to vote Drixx. I pointed it out clearly so she noticed. But I explained that I didn’t do that. I don’t like the way you brought that up -1

Total - -1

2. Peptobislawl BBMolla

- Pepto’s first post is incredibly lazy -1
- 460 is horrible.

"early" tomorrow. So much for that.

Regarding Bulba and Mario, I feel like at least one of them is scum. I'm leaning toward Mario as his posting has been, frankly, terrible, and his vote and reasoning seems opportunistic, considering Bulba had a wagon at the time. That, and bulba has improved his posting since I voted for him. VOTE: Mario. He's at 8/12 now so vote carefully, no nead to lynch early.

Titus, He could also be scum, but I'm not as confident. The fake V/LA was bad. There seems to be a lot of meta floating around, and I haven't been around this site long enough to follow along, though. If anyone wants to sum all that up real quick that would be appreciated.

Regarding 430, I had read the whole thread at the time, but I often ISO people to get a better feel of them, which is what I did then.

- It’s the cautiousness of it, are people really going to accidentally lynch at 8/12 -1

Total = -2 + -1 for being under the radar = -3

3. Anatole Kuragin

- P5 Hate this fro99er vote as well. -1
- P19 Back after long absence, bad vote -2

Nothing good here. + -1 for being under the radar

Total = -4

4. Stodav ChaosOmega

Total = 0

5. farside22

- P3 Need to check farsides stance on meta from previous games, because I don’t remember her being against it. (Also it is stupid to be against it)
- P16, Hey thats interesting, I brought it in game initially because farside asked.
- Post 575, farside suggests voting me to spiffeh, despite not scumreading me there -1

Total = -1

6. Titus

- P4 A lot to call Bulb out on but does so on the potshot against ABR, wouldn’t be voting him for that -1
- P4 Titus see’s the main scumminess in that post on her reread, can’t say much about that, because I do that often.
- P11 Titus’s response to the case isn’t great -1
- P11 Goes V/LA via post count which given recent events, farsides response sucks ass given what I’ve just been arguing -2
- P12 Titus makes me comment on her. -1
- P18, what is ABR doing with her vote?

Total = -5

7. PeregrineV

- Pere votes Fro99er with no reason, -1

Total = -1

8. Porochaz

- 553 is unintentionally harsh, I also need to use grammar more.

9. Gorkington

- P4 Did he ever make a case on me or just rely on others?
- P16 Glad I called Gork out on it. -1
- 445-447, I realise its a joke, but it feels really off. A bit too pandering -1

Total = -2

10. Spiffeh

- P2 Commenting on Mario’s activity on page 2, its jumping the gun a bit -1
- P3 Attacks Fro99er not good reasoning. -1
- P16 Spiffeh votes me with no reason -1
- Spiffeh’s 576 was even worse than farsides 575.
- Retract that, he asks about 575.

Total = -3

11. Albert B. Rampage

Been V/LA most of the day, it's been announced but as he has had no impact at all and barely any posts. I need some content from him, because even with the v/la I would expect something decent from him as town. -2

Total = -2

12. Dongempire

- P12 Dong hasn’t done much and his vote on page 12 for Mario, for 1 post that just says he is town is meh -1
- Retroactive losing a point for not posting anything useful himself, but having done so regularly. -1
- P16 I struggle to read his posts.
- P19 Don’t like the response towards Gork. Does he actually think Gork is scum? -1

Total = -3

13. Drixx

- P2 Drixx goes on the Inception tack, which I still don’t understand. -1
- Continues it -1
- P9 Not hugely happy with Drixx’s unvote, considering his content thus far.

Total = -2

14. Bulbazak

- P4 Post 82, is the scummy “definitely” post, not only for the contradiction I’ve mentioned before but the vote before reading the small thread. The fact he is “floating” around but not reading the thread is a bit shifty. -1
- P4 Post 90, when he inexplicably changes his vote -1
- P5 Fro99er makes a point about Bulba’s stance on him, despite not reading his actual post -1
- I remember Tammy, telling me that Im focusing on this too much but that no answer in 321 is really, really getting to me. -1
- P20 And that continues with 493.

Total = -4

15. Katsuki

- P4 Forgot Katsuki was in this game.

At this point, just under half way Kat has made 6 posts, in the next half he makes 4, 2 of which are smilies, this content is less than the nothing Kat usually plays. Anyone remember he was in this game? -3

Total = -3

16. ZZZX hiplop

Been ill, can't say anything thus far.

Total = 0 but with the caveat as there isn't anything to say.

17. Tammy

- I missed 430, it kind of explains her stance more.
- P25 I’m not sure where I berated you for not posting, I’ll need to look at this, because if I did, I didn’t mean to. That said, Im not going to let the Bulba thing go. There is something off.

Total = 0

18. Ranger

-

Why these two?

Because while there are some players in here that're town and some players that I can't lock down yet, those two are scum.

- This is P3, jumping the gun -1
- P10 Rangers next posts are unwhelming. -1

Under the radar -1

Total = -3

19. Ricastle

Total = 0

20. MarioManiac4

- P6 Mario makes his content case against Spiffeh -1
- P8 Case continues -1

The fact I don't have anything on Mario after this is worrying especially because with some of the others that I don't have much on, I have town points against them. I don't with Mario.

Total = -2

21. Marquis

- P3 Marquis makes a good point about proxying, it’s something I have felt, I don’t like the rule.
- P3 Marquis attacks fro99er for post 67, but its meta reasoning, which kind of blurs the line a bit, I don’t have a meta read on frog, so I can’t attest for how town/scum it is.
- P5 Marquis returns the favour and defends Bulba, there is something weird going on here -1
- P5 Not happy with the reasoning Marquis gives for finding Bulba scum but it’s not scummy in itself

Total = -1

Im quoting and adding tags to make it more readable.

[Porochaz]

@Poro

- all that hard work (...) and here I am bashing you about it, but you read 25 pages, and you think Titus had 5 things you did not like about her posts?

I guess I should ask first, what was the point of 1276?

I wrote the post in word, and when I put it back into ms it took away all the fancy bold and underlining. I thought it made it look clearer if I reposted it, with the fancy stuff. (It also took away glorks strikethroughs, but that didn't seem important)

I think Titus has a few things wrong has four? thinks inherently wrong with her posts. The other 2 were notes, but it's a good point as I wrote one of them in note form and not "Im going to post this" form

Proxy ABR without VLA

If the above is invalid
VOTE: MM

Can you explain your proxy in this post, Titus?

[Porochaz]

445-447, I realise its a joke, but it feels really off. A bit too pandering -1

i will do my best to avoid making jokes to avoid seeming scummy from now on.

I laughed.

[Porochaz]

Are you complaining more about the amount of things on Titus, Pere? If so I found a large part of the case on her metabased, and I haven't played with her all that much, if at all. I did also make a case on her earlier on and was voting her until Frogger changed my vote and he has since put it back, I don't really have an inclination to change it at this point.

[Porochaz]

@Mod - Starting RL tomorrow I will be V/LA until Tuesday the 24th. I will still be around until the end of real life today.

Proxy: Tammy (starting tomorrow)

Yay NASCAR at Miami Beach!

Hey froggy, can you answer my question, I'll rephrase it here -

How do you feel about meta being used as a scumhunting tool?

and

How do you feel about selfmeta being used in a game?

[Porochaz]

I'm here for about a half an hour before trivia. I have an oddly relatively free weekend, so I'll have some time tomorrow evening and most of Saturday before I go to a party, so anything I don't take care of today I will then.

The buddying accusations in this game are weird. I meant to mention it before but Bulbazack accusing Ranger of buddying him and therefore being suspicious just felt weird. Buddying isn't scummy in the first place, well I mean it can be it's just the way it's done and it didn't feel like ranger was buddying him. Titus' accusation of frogger buddying me felt weird as well.

Titus why do you have that strong of a town read on me?

Prozac - You didn't berate me. I was thinking you were going to, but then I thought it could be read a different way. How often do you do that minus system for posts? It may just be a play style quirk, but that type of catch up always reads scummy to me. I'm sorry for whatever you're going through and I hope it gets better!

Usually I don't stick to a particular system, I usually do it by page number rather than user. If I do a user read, I tend to do a +/- system by iso and for all intents and purposes I did here as well (except the iso part, I felt I would gain more reading from the start), but to save time I just posted mostly things that I felt were scummy. That was purely from a timekeeping point of view. (I didn't stop from when i said I was on page 6 to when I posted to give you an idea of how long it did take me) I was experimenting to see if it saved time. It did a little, and it also helped me get my footing back, although Im still 27 pages behind and I haven't read like 17 of them.

[Porochaz]

Also thanks! My problem is still there, but as I don't have to deal with it until probably early 2016 I will be okay for the foreseeable future

[Porochaz]

Ok, so Im glad I can ask you this before you go, what do you feel about my statement "If you know your meta, you can change your meta".

The reason I ask this is because you obviously vehemently disagreed with me when I issued that sentiment before. Which I find odd and it surprised me, but it kinda ties into this game and the initial case on you. I don't think this is indicative of scum or town, but it would be nice to get a background picture of one of my more townie reads.

[Porochaz]

I wish I was allowed pizza, my diet says it's too much. (which is why I only eat it once a week now)

I also just looked up me saying that exact phrase in the search, might be time to find a slightly catchier catchphrase.

[Porochaz]

I think Gork was talking about me there.

I've made my thoughts clear on this matter, already, so won't bother doing it again. I don't think that a "black or white" solution is the answer here. For instance, you start going into very morally grey territory with that kind of argument. Now obviously, Tammy and farside are correct in suggesting that some scum may use it as an advantage, and now that I have calmed down a bit, I guess it's fair to bring it up. (although the way in which you do that could be more delicately handled) I don't think it's an appropriate way to play the game, but that's me.

I would hope that the people who are suggesting these things would consider more than just that, and consider the person behind the posts as well.

For me, I think it's a sign of the changed meta on site, that I hate by the way. That a lot of this game feels a lot more personal and back-stabby and is not played in the fun light-hearted way it was intended. Maybe it's rose-tinted but even when I was getting pissy about the spamfest of '11 it was a lot more friendly. Maybe gork is right, in a way, this game has evolved into something that I don't feel is fun anymore? People seem to have taken this game to the next level, and think that abusing the character of people (and I'm speaking in general here not about a specific incident) is the way to play the game. It might help scumhunting, but that way of playing is completely horrific. If we were playing the way we do here in real life, there would be brawls and fights and we would end the game early hating each other!

I think this is probably worth a MD thread, but I will wait until post game.

In any case, I am going to continue posting my reread, but my sister is here this weekend, and I haven't spent time with her properly in about 6 months. I'll be around and I'll still be posting my reread but it will be in smaller chunks, so I can have the best of both worlds.

[Porochaz]

Yes.

That is a claim.

[Porochaz]

I hate Porochaz's #1275. And it's not just the fact that he ignored or downplayed most of what I said. This feels very IIoA.

Answer the Marquis question and I'll be happy. I'll the rest

[Porochaz]

Didn't think so.

[Porochaz]

I won't be changing my vote.

[Porochaz]

I mean fine, farside, we haven't played together much, I mean I wouldn't be able to link to a dozen games we were in together, or the 5 games you've modded that I've been in, or the game I've modded that you were in.

Oh wait...

[Porochaz]

Guys, Titus is still an option!

[Porochaz]

Yeah... Im not exactly sure why you are all following ABR, who has done nothing all day and suddenly decided this is a good lynch and you all follow. Im seen him do this before which is infuriating, and whats more I've seen him be wrong more than he is right. Why are people not voting Titus or Anatole or Katsuki to name a few?

[Porochaz]

Heh, Im not sure I've ever been called that before.

Also Spiffeh, why do the Titus votes need to go and not the Drixx ones? Considering they are on the same amount?

[Porochaz]

Yeah... Im not exactly sure why you are all following ABR, who has done nothing all day and suddenly decided this is a good lynch and you all follow. Im seen him do this before which is infuriating, and whats more I've seen him be wrong more than he is right. Why are people not voting Titus or Anatole or Katsuki to name a few?

Hi. You Ricastle's buddy? ABR's obvtown. Taking charge to lead a wagon after a VLA is very pro town. The only way I think ABR could be scum ATM is scum with Drixx and I don't see that.

No, it's not. And, no, he's not.

[Porochaz]

I mean I've seen him do that often enough as town, but how anyone can say he is obvtown with so little information is being ridiculous. I don't actually know if he has been reading the game.

EDIT, I have been thus far.

[Porochaz]

Yeah... Im not exactly sure why you are all following ABR, who has done nothing all day and suddenly decided this is a good lynch and you all follow. Im seen him do this before which is infuriating, and whats more

I've seen him be wrong more than he is right

. Why are people not voting Titus or Anatole or Katsuki to name a few?

Emphasis is mine. How many people do you know who are significantly more right than wrong on day one, with a significant sample size? I'm unaware of anyone who is better than random chance at day one, but maybe you know a bunch of people who are super amazing and I just haven't gotten to play with them yet? I would love to play with them, if you do. I could stand to learn a LOT about how to scumhunt and play day one better, as my entire game history on site can attest to.

I mean in this specific situation. I'd prefer to follow someone who knows what they are doing and has some information.

[Porochaz]

You won't change your mind, neither will I, let's keep the thread clean of useless cheerleading that only pads up the page count, and let the neutrals and spectators choose the lynch now. Fair?

Maybe understanding why you personally are voting Ri might help?

[Porochaz]

Hello, Im going to keep rereading.

[Porochaz]

Yeah, I've been scum with ABR, he doesn't work the way bulba is trying to say.

I've yet to really see him be pulled into a large game as scum, so I have no reference point there. What I do have is a reference point for him being strong town. And this is not his town play.

I'm reading through Day 2, just now, I'll complete my reread later. First point of contention.

(actually it's 3rd. 1. ABR does his usual "I caught scum" post, 1798, I've played too much with ABR to know his play, don't let this post fool you, it's not alignment indicative and it's used to get people to follow him. He is very, very good at being manipulative. The signs point to him starting to lead the town in this day, which is worrying, considering his *actual* impact yesterday, Im not saying don't follow him, but be aware of his play. That was a long 1st point, whoops. 2. Farsides early posts suck big red scummy balls, might look into more at a later date.)

Anyway 3rd point of contention - what you have is one point in a data set. Boiling this post down, you come to an incorrect conclusion - not playing like the way you have seen him =/= him being scum. Not playing like the way you have seen him = just that.

[Porochaz]

the guy he was angry at for jumping off of Ricastle onto Titus.

This is

incredibly

scummy as you are making things up.

Where do you claim I was angry at you for getting off Ricastle and onto Titus?

I was pro-Titus and pro-Ricastle, with emphasis on Ricastle. I made the

infamous

"we lynch one of Titus and Ricastle" post.

Rather, I found it

really

suspicious that you thought it wasn't valid to ask for Ricastle or Titus to claim their role / location.

See italisised word choice, he likes to emphasise, all three italicised words could be removed to make the same point. (which to be fair, is a good point) That last sentence again, puts the suspicion on Bulba. This isn't for Bulba's benefit, it's for the rest of you. Again, I've seen him do this as town, but I've seen him both win and lose games because of this.

[Porochaz]

If annoying was a prerequisite for being lynched, you would have bit the dust yesterday.

The issue is that you aren't doing yourself any favours, you aren't fighting your corner well and you are coming off hysterical.

[Porochaz]

okay fuck it.
lets shake some actually useful trees.

vote: hiplop

spiffeh proxy votes hiplop

I liked your posts up until this point, this seems out of left field.

[Porochaz]

Okay I'm drinking and preparing for the first Thanksgiving dinner I'm ever cooking. Okay that's unfair as I"m not doing it alone, but the Turkey is my responsibility! And I skimmed and I'm drinking.

Bulbazack - I feel pretty decent about ABR being town here. Yes, he's trying to take credit for a lynch that wasn't his. That doesn't make him scum, that makes him insecure. Yes, he's got shit ass attacks on me and farside for dumb ass reasons. That doesn't make him scum; that makes him insecure with personal issues. Like seriously people without problems don't do that shit. If I thought for one second he was scum here I'd join you on the wagon and rejoice, but sadly I don't. I think he's town. He's best ignored.

Your momentum vote argument is null though; I've known scum in quite a few situations to bus when it would be beneficial, so no points there. Please don't make that argument.

<3 Tammy

[Porochaz]

Porochaz attacked me when I called him out as scum and he acted all like I should know what his RL issues are, which I don't and has been a lurk sack most of the game.

I attacked you when you suggested I was faking my personal reasons for taking a break. It's not that you don't know what those reasons are, just that you have all the sensitivity of a blind raging rhino in a glasswear shop. In this instance, I thought having had quite a large amount of games with me, you would know that integrity-wise faking personal reasons is not something I would do.

Now obviously A. I was wrong, with my assumption of you, B. I was - I think understandably - angry and C. I still have no idea what to do in regards to this situation. I can't really defend todays lurking beyond me discovering Jessica Jones and this argument having robbed me of all enthusiasm for this game.

Now you can call me scummy for that, you can keep bringing it up because it forms your case, fine. As for me, I'm not going to try my best not to respond to that bit of your case, because honestly, I just want to forget the entire thing and focus on the proper arguments made against me rather than some vicious point scoring because once you get beyond that, I think your case boils down to me lurking and even with your case against me, I doubt that you can effectively argue that that makes me scum.

Beyond that, happy to move on with you and answer anything other than "that".

[Porochaz]

Now you can call me scummy for that, you can keep bringing it up because it forms your case, fine. As for me, I'm not going to try my best not to respond to that bit of your case,

The personal reasons argument, not the lurking.

For clarification.

[Porochaz]

I really want to lynch that ^

Are you scum? If you're scum I can understand why you would want to lynch me. If you're town, you should re-read my ISO and look at what I did yesterday, and consider why I would have done it, as town.

In case you somehow missed it, I softed earlier today that while I gain something super powerful (which I will claim assuming I get it, and let people I trust are town advise me as far as when I use it), that doesn't mean I started with nothing. I started with something that potentially explains the no kill, in fact.

Sorry if you are team scum and my {redacted} cost you a kill and now you realize you have to mislynch me to win my part of the game, because anyone paying attention already realized what I softed earlier and am making really obvious now. It's amusing too because something super good could happen if scum assume the wrong thing.

I'm lazy, why don't you educate me on why I should trust you at all.

We really need to look at farside. I mean he

explains

it right there in this very post! Lazy doesn't cut it at this point!

[Porochaz]

They don't have day talk.

How do you know this?

[Porochaz]

Not outting my role in the least.

Here are my issues with bb's claim.
He called my actions at the start scummy but as I said my thoughts were to help what my ability so I would think someone who needed to worry about who they picked would have the same thought process.
Calling it scummy is just a cop out.
Then you have bb's reason for protecting bulba is all about how it would set him up, but at the end of the day most people were suspicious about ric or Anatole over and above bb.
Scum would have picked someone town leader but afraid of some other PR so picking a neutral yet thoughtful player makes sense.
Also bb's willness to claim early is poor town play given the claim.
There would have been more anger or resentment at lynching a doc, even know he's calm about the whole thing.

Its a decent post...

While Im at it and so I don't fill this thread anymore, Tammy, I still dont see it?

[Porochaz]

What I don't get is why Molla would protect Bulba in the first place (Im on page 89). I don't like Bulba's vote in the other direction either. I have hated Mario's posting for a while, I wonder if it's better in the bit I didn't read. My read on farside will be dependant on the Molla flip, I really need some Bella, Pere and Ranger love. Particularly the latter. Fro99er is town, Tammy is town and makes me smile, ABR is a one man drama band but since I'm seeing right through it, it's fun and I think he is town, but the read is less than the other two and Drixx. Katsuki makes me feel dirty because I think he is townposting, but Oldie Mafia... Thats where I am. I worry that the Molla wagon has gone too fast, I think that analysis will be fruitful tomorrow, regardless of flip, but whilst I didn't really see the case to begin with, the stuff post claim isnt good.

[Porochaz]

Poro, why was the Anatole wagon awful?

I think I answered this later on and I was actually referring to something else, can you tell me the post number so I can check?

[Porochaz]

I am ready to hammer, but there is an issue, excluding a Tammy (and now myself, we haven't heard from a great many of the non-voters, I do wonder if it's worth waiting to hear from them, since we have hardly heard from some.

BBMolla 10 (farside22, MarioManiac4, Gorkington, Spiffeh, Ricastle, Albert B. Rampage, Katsuki, Fro99er, hiplop, Drixx)
Mario 2 (Bulba, Molla)

Not Voting: Bellaphant, ChaosOmega, PeregrineV, Porochaz, Dongempire, Tammy, Ranger, Marquis

20 alive, 11 to lynch

Deadline is Wednesday, December 9, at 8:00pm EST

[Porochaz]

But I only did so because you pushed it. I feel like Im in a catch 22 here.

In regards to your ADD, not specifically, I know you don't always read posts carefully which can lead to misunderstandings, and I try, when I remember, to keep my posts short and to the point when referring to you. But that's a bit different from the example above.

That said, this isn't a hole I don't want to go down. I like your Molla case and my read on you is dependant on him.

[Porochaz]

Heading to bed, I'll maybe be around a tiny bit longer. If there is no objections between now and morning, I will hammer. Hopefully Ranger will have posted something by then.

[Porochaz]

"already stong-townread" - cool, we have a counterclaimed guy with a guy who has actually a decent case on him for what is specifically role related reasons and his interactions with Titus. He never once tried to read her, he just preferred to actively ignore her. She did the exact same to him and his predecessor. People asked and they both downright refused. That is hella scummy!

Furthermore, Katsuki has fakeclaimed before. Yes. But that rolecop thing was clearly a fakeclaim and a joke! I knew it was a joke as soon as I read it. This is not a fakeclaim, it does not feel like a Katsuki fakeclaim. Honestly, for all you meta-naysayers out there, you are wrong and you should feel bad!

ABR, you coming off this wagon as soon as it's about to go through is so scummy it's unbelievable and I don't know for what. You have 9 other people gunning for someone elses lynch, one that you "agree" with, and then as soon as someone comes along with an intent to hammer, you try to derail, for what is a shitty reason. He joined the bandwagon reasonless, but was always trying to push for a bulba wagon.

vote Molla

[Porochaz]

Bulbazak tomorrow!

NO U

Seriously.

[Porochaz]

Mario is annoying.

I'll be less annoying when I haven't made my mind up on a lynch and it isn't twilight!

That only explains a small fraction of your posts.

[Porochaz]

Bulbazak tomorrow!

stfu you're the clownfuck who wanted to unvote this scumfuck known as molla

^ goodposting

[Porochaz]

i hope molla flips town.
thatd be funny.

If this happens, you, Frogger, and Farside follow me tomorrow. No questions asked

If this happens, we look at farside.

Also frogger stops closely following ABR. If he is scum, this should happen anyway. YOU'RE YOUR OWN MAN FROGGER!

You aren't in a position to lead the town in any case.

[Porochaz]

There are holes in my knowledge frogger, from what I've seen over the reread is you have parroted ABR for a while, you may have said it first but as has been more vocal today, it looks like you are parroting him. That said, if it is the other way round, don't you wonder why he is parroting you as someone who is widely regarded to be one of the towniest players?

[Porochaz]

you may have said it first but as has been more vocal today

Because I haven't needed to be vocal. Jesus fuck.

Molla's obvscum. What more do I need to say. Do I need to repeat he's scum 100 times over?

Not my point. Im not arguing against you here, Im pointing out how his and your opinions seem to have aligned.

I am quite happy with the lynch. Otherwise I wouldnt have voted it, Molla is obvscum. I am not happy with ABR's actions, like coming off the wagon as I was about to hammer, claiming credit for the day 1 lynch and blatantly trying to manipulate people.

I've approached this wrong. If you found Bulba scummy first, then that is fine. However, the way ABR has posted about Bulba since then, has fleshed out that case. However the way he has gone about that specifically is off. The way he comes off the Molla wagon to go after Bulba when it is clear that it's not happening is off and only serves to delay/derail the Molla lynch. You aren't the one I have the issue with, he is.

[Porochaz]

Look, I for one am not attacking you, but I do want to show you why ABR is scummy. Thats my aim here. I don't give a shit about who is following who.

Post-edit: Fine, we don't need to talk about it in twilight, but I am going to bring this up again tomorrow.

Post post edit. I do trust you, that's why I was worried you hadn't seen it. I know ABR and he's an expert at burrowing into peoples minds.

[Porochaz]

All that said, and I'm not convinced on Bulba being town either.

[Porochaz]

Time for this thread to close.

[Porochaz]

VOTE: Abr

Made my case yesterday but will do so again when it's not 3am

[Porochaz]

WHAT FUCKING PART OF MY POSTS ARE NOT CLEAR HERE

I AM COUNTERCLAIMING MOLLA'S CLAIM, HIS ROLE

CAN NOT

POSSIBLY EXIST IN TANDEM WITH MINE

FOR OBVIOUS REASONS I'M NOT FULLCLAIMING

Regardless of molla being scum, how does this post make sense with your claim?

[Porochaz]

then refrain from making comments like in 2618.

if youre going to make stupid statements then be prepared to take responsibility for those words.

freedom of speech does not operate on a one-way basis.

Yeah kat you are in the wrong here

[Porochaz]

Then excluding the other times you have fake claimed a role in this game alone you can't expect anyone to believe anything you say.

[Porochaz]

Excluding should say "looking at only"

[Porochaz]

The quotes he's trying to use to discredit me, none of those were actual claims.

If I did not push that molla wagon through I would hate to see where the day would have gone. Plus obvious fakeclaim from molla was fake, there is no way I am letting scum use that to fish for roles.

Kat I'm almost certain I've played in more than one game with you where you have fakeclaimed.

[Porochaz]

And if Drixx can sit here and say he believes Katsuki really is a day cop despite the overwhelming evidence that Katsuki does this all the fucking time for whatever lame reason, and that Glork has, to the best of my knowledge, never put a daycop in a setup, then Drixx is either the biggest hypocrite in the world who sat here and called us names and told us how obvious it was katsuki is telling the truth, or he's scum.

And I don't think drixx, with his PhD in hand, is that unsmart.

This is a good point.

PEdit: I played a game where he was scum before (admittedly he subbed out early) and he was a lot more go with the flow there.

ABR is REALLY not someone you can use meta on.

[Porochaz]

So ranger can fence sit on a buddy and it's scum but Poro fence sits on a known scum and that's town?

Ok...

Poro very definitely did not fence sit in regards to Titus, being on her wagon early and never wavering in that read.

[Porochaz]

ABR, you coming off this wagon as soon as it's about to go through is so scummy it's unbelievable and I don't know for what. You have 9 other people gunning for someone elses lynch, one that you "agree" with, and then as soon as someone comes along with an intent to hammer, you try to derail, for what is a shitty reason. He joined the bandwagon reasonless, but was always trying to push for a bulba wagon.

This is what I'm thinking of. I don't think it looks as much like a "ABR is scum" as you might, especially given Porochaz's earlier defense of ABR. I read it as "what you did is scummy, but it was always about your hard push on Bulba" which is something that Poro was using earlier to push ABR as town. I also don't see this as being hard enough to sell a sudden ABR scumread. It reads more like "Y u do that, bro?".

I need you to show me my earlier defence of ABR, a knowledge of how he plays isn't a defence.

[Porochaz]

Poro very definitely did not fence sit in regards to Titus, being on her wagon early and never wavering in that read.

You wavered on BBmolla.

Once I was up to date I didn't. I wondered about hammering early in the day.

But then Im talking to the guy who tried to derail the lynch, so there is a saying about a pot and kettle being black here.

[Porochaz]

TBH I wanted to hammer BBmolla that's why I unvoted. I didn't want to let scumloard Poro hammer.

Thats a fucking load of bullshit, that a quick look at your iso could disprove.

[Porochaz]

Im glad you mentioned that before. It was a very eloquent case you made. Oh right. Because really when I called you out on the fact that you tried to swoop in and claim credit for the day 1 lynch, or you trying so hard to manipulate people or even your attempted derailing of the Molla wagon, that wasn't the time to go "aha you are scum because of this case..." because I would play a large bet that you are only saying I'm scum because I am not kissing your arse. Remember I've played with you enough times to have been down this route before.

[Porochaz]

Also, there has been a lot of pages, what is the Drixx case?

[Porochaz]

Scumlord Porochaz still not making any sense. More votes please.

Make a case or gtfo because it's smelling like OMGUS.

In regards to Drixx, if I remember correctly he claimed multiple shot bulletproof in the inner game. Something he hinted at day 1.

There is a part of me that wonders how balanced having a strong bulletproof role in the innergame works out balance wise, but I really am iffy about lynching inner game people at this point, particularly claimed power role inner game people. Being wary of innergame lynches is not a good strategy overall, so I need to get over that, but I am not convinced that this is a better option than ABR, who, despite what he says, tried to derail a wagon for his own gain late on in the day. (and even if what he said was true and he was trying to stop me hammering so he could, what does it matter?)

[Porochaz]

There other players as well, that I'd be more interested in hearing from and assessing (Ranger, Bella, Mario) than Drixx atm.

[Porochaz]

Huh, looking back in must have been someone else who claimed inner, Kat maybe?

Not sure why I'd deliberately make that up ABR?

My stance is less strong on Drixx now, but I think for reasons that are increasingly obvious I'm not feeling that my vote is in the wrong place.

[Porochaz]

Will you indulge me just briefly then and then we can move on?

Let's ignore the manipulation, because I will admit and have said in this thread in the past that he will do that as either alignment. You don't think much of any of his actions in regards to Bulba or Molla aren't worth a further look? The fact he didn't even make a proper case on Molla he just tacked himself on and continued to attack Bulba? The fact he tried to claim credit for a lynch he had nothing to do with, where is the town motivation? This ABR isn't scumhunting either. I don't think this is a vanity vote. I genuinely think I have a case, I'm not going through it post by post as I think it's clear enough not to do that.

Tammy - I realise this, hence why I have to get over it. I just want to feel more substance to the wagon before I put a vote down.

Drixx, what is your prior experience with Katsuki?

[Porochaz]

Poro didn't have that info, Poro got you confused with Bulba or Kat (more likely the former).

[Porochaz]

mod replace me.
i am not reading another one of drixx's posts.

You should stay

Drixx should leave.

This. I don't want you to leave Gork.

Tammy I am not ignoring it but it's systemic of a larger problem on site. I plan to make a topic about it and what we can do to change this attitude once this game is over. But I'm not sure what I can do in this game specifically? :/

[Porochaz]

vote Drixx

[Porochaz]

mod replace me.
i am not reading another one of drixx's posts.

You should stay

Drixx should leave.

This. I don't want you to leave Gork.

Tammy I am not ignoring it but it's systemic of a larger problem on site. I plan to make a topic about it and what we can do to change this attitude once this game is over. But I'm not sure what I can do in this game specifically? :/

It is. You're right. And maybe there's nothing that can be done this game, but you were on the list of possible people to extract and I reread through BSG and Chef mafia and just the way that in BSG for instance you got after me for voting ABR when you thought it was a bad vote or the way in Chef mafia where you showed some of your frustration is not something I've seen here except when it pertained to Farside with regards to you and I get that personal things are personal and hit harder, but I guess I just kinda figured that it would be something across the board you'd take note of and register your distaste of.

Yeah... Its a thing I want to tackle from a wider perspective and Im not totally against aggression and even insults, it's a thing I have to hash through essentially. Also I've not exactly been a model citizen this game in this regard, so I feel a bit of a hypocrite if I start going after others. (even if I am a hypocrite because it's why I went off on one in the first place, I don't know, it seems very circular and not productive)

But I am frustrated don't get me wrong, but it's tied up in emotions and not logic, and my game as you will be aware is primarily a logic one, so most of that frustration is on me. I am grumpy though that I think my case on ABR is a good logical one, and people are taking it more as playstyle.

[Porochaz]

Tammy

unvote vote ABR

[Porochaz]

You regurgitating the same garbage that Porochaz is spewing.

I no rite?

It's like it's scummy despite what you say.

[Porochaz]

Not really sure what else to say in regards to the innergame thing, it would have been more likely to have been Bulba.

[Porochaz]

I didn't mean to press submit there, there is a lot going on this game, I got players confused, it happens, it was just a coincidence.

[Porochaz]

Not a fan of the ABR wagon. If ABR were scum, his interactions with Titus D1 would be scum theatre, and it doesn't read that way to me. Not locked in on him being town, but I haven't seen anything that makes me think scum.

VOTE: Porochaz

I want to go back to this. Right now, I'm looking in Poro/Ranger/Drixx/Ricastle for scum. I went back through Poro's ISO and looked at his interaction w/ Titus & Molla.

- 412 is the turning point when Poro pivots over to a Titus lynch. Up until that point, Titus had gotten some votes and suspicion, but Poro hadn't said anything in regards to a scum read on the slot. 286 from Titus reads like coaching, telling Poro to take a stand on her, like she was expecting to get a lot more votes and thought it would look bad with his current positioning. Everything before 412 from Poro in regards to Titus is null and not trying to sort (169/173). But now suddenly Titus is the worst person to have ever existed and Porochaz tunnels into her.

- Molla isn't mentioned by Poro until very late in his wagon. Granted, Poro didn't post at all in the thread really for that time, so it's maybe not nefarious. The 2 main posts I'm looking at here are 2277 and 2368. His read on ABR flips between these two posts, with the reasoning that he was trying to derail the Molla wagon. The point isn't salient though if Molla flipped town, but Poro made his case seemingly with the knowledge he already knew Molla was scum.

Porochaz, can you explain what your current view is on Bulba? Because I don't understand how you aren't scumreading the shit out of him.

- One of your points on Titus was how she was distracting you from questioning Bulba. Titus flips scum. Does it read like Titus engaged with you D1 to pull you away from Bulba?
- Bulba was also against the Molla lynch D2 and tried to derail the lynch. Why attack ABR for it and not Bulba?

No offence to Titus but I wouldn't take coaching from her. 8 years on the site, I can play my own game.

I wasn't around at all during day 2. My read does flip with ABR, because the derailment was scummy as hell, and the claim he did something on day 1 was also scummy, I thought he was town despite the first day. The way ABR speaks is very manipulative, but I thought he was tenuously town because I have seem him do that as town and scum and his actions to that point weren't terrible, but that changed when he revoted.

There was a reason why I didn't think Bulba was scum, will have to look up why. May be due to the fact I think ABR is scum. But I'll be honest, every time I come into this thread there is about 5-10 pages and I actually can't remember much from previous, your points are worth looking at.

[Porochaz]

Heh, so Im going to be

v/la until Sunday

I have finally managed to get some holiday work, but it is 2 x 10 hour shifts. So yeah...

This game has been a clusterfuck. I mean take frogger for example, who seems to get excited by any new case, I have no idea where ABR's read on Bulba is right now, nor do I think it will remain that way by the end of the day, it might, but Im guessing it will change multiple times in the interim. There are a mass of lurkers - slot 2, CO to an extent, Pere, Kat, Mario and even Marquis to a lesser degree. Apart from anything else, why Mario hasn't had more pressure is beyond me. ABR's constant switching opinions needs to be looked at more closely, as well.

It's been extremely hard to keep up, particularly when your enthusiasm for the site has hit what is an unexpectedly new low but there you go.

Lets continue with this latest case, point 1 has been gone over ad nauseum, point 2, I told him what to say then asked the question, how am I meant to go further with that, he could just parrot me, which is effectively what he did, wasn't happy about it, but there wasn't more I could do, point 3, its fair, point 4, it was a question, thats all, feels a bit like scraping the barrel along with point 5, which is a retread of point 1, well done, someone else said it already. Point 6, a lot of what you say is how I think I play (self-meta-ing myself, it really has been a crap game for me) point 7, other game stuff happened, but if the wagon is going that way without my help, why would I need to keep adding to it unless I had something additional to add.

Frogger in regards to your selfmeta tell, you should look at this - http://forum.mafiascum.net/search.php?k ... mit=Search Just because it doesn't appear to be there, Flash Mafia I was a vt and this is just a selection, I'm sure I've said variations in a lot of different games.

[Porochaz]

Well the frog analogy works, but yeah, don't know your play.

[Porochaz]

Both Drixx and Bulba are town IMO. Just by their posting.

I'm sure scum is in Poro/hiplop/Starbuck

[Porochaz]

Oh hey ABR you do realize you've literally town read people because they've been nice to you, right?

This is a stupid comment, considering Bulbazak is in my strong townreads, and he never apologized for his comments against me.

[Porochaz]

You aren't trying to erase the past, frogger.

[Porochaz]

poro/bulb are both scum

fine w/ either

Yes we know what you think. Say something new.

Or something more novel, something worth saying.

[Porochaz]

poro/bulb are both scum

fine w/ either

Yes we know what you think. Say something new.

Or something more novel, something worth saying.

this is the rare occasion where less talk is benefitting town

we keep jumping around and its boring and also not helpful we have caught scum lets go to tomorrow

You have a point, but it would be nice to hear something more originial.

[Porochaz]

I'm sorry Poro because you seem like a cool dude.
I just really think you're scum.
:/

If there has been a bright spot this game for me, because I'll be honest, I am playing this game fucking terribly, it has been playing with yourself. Your posting style didn't irritate me in the end, and it's nice seeing a player that is almost oldstyle in the way he posts and there is a logic behind things.

Frogger as well, if he was able to be more consistent.

But fuck this, Im not going to let you lynch me without a fight. I think if you compare me and ABR here, you will see more major infractions than I have. You can say that Im buddying (a strategy Im not a huge fan of) and Im softballing, and honestly with that one I can't really deny it. But derailing scum wagons, trying to warp events to make him look good, non-consistent views, I genuinely believe that whilst your case on me has a little merit, the case is more fruitful and solid on ABR, and we should be lynching him.

If you want me to look further into Bulba, (someone said I should) I will when I can.

[Porochaz]

Not in regards to you though, but nice try.

[Porochaz]

I am an informed townie, I knew who was within the inner game, at the start of the game.

[Porochaz]

Im not going to answer that for obvious reasons.

[Porochaz]

It genuinely is.

[Porochaz]

Again Im not convinced I should answer these questions, but will give a definitive answer if thats what people want. In regards to Drixx, I think my behaviour around him will give you the answer to your question.

[Porochaz]

Out of interest, what are you going to when you find me town?

The fact that you don't have anything to discuss whilst Im away is really worrying.

[Porochaz]

Right, here is the deal because Im not happy with the way the last few days went and Im also not of the opinion that I should completely give away all my information.

There are 7 inner-game players.

All of the people who have claimed inner game are inner game, that includes Katsuki - who at least isn't lying about what level he is in and Ranger, who was in the inner game at the start of the game.

As for the rest I think it's best to keep quiet on them just now.

[Porochaz]

No.

I did think about this, balance wise, Im a powerful role, scum must have something that is equally as powerful to balance it. What I gave you is 4 people who can confirm my information as correct, who scum will be looking at anyway. Look before you leap, hmm?

[Porochaz]

I understand what you are saying hip, but Im not going to change the stance on this. I claimed Kat wasn't lying which should be at least some evidence. Scum would not use Katsuki as a reliable source (unless we were both scum, but that opens a can of WIFOM)

[Porochaz]

GIVE US ONE NAME THAT HAS NOT CLAIMED.
ONE NAME.

Yeah because that would be useful to you as town.

Why the fuck are you meant to be confirmed town? All I've seen from you is scumminess.

[Porochaz]

Latter point doesn't make him conftown.

Former point doesn't either, but it does make a decent case. Post?

[Porochaz]

VOTE: Porochaz
I'm out of here.
L-2 I think, don't even care if hammer.

Pedit: GIVE US ONE NAME THAT HAS NOT CLAIMED.
ONE NAME.

Poro, one name and you're exempt from the lynch today.

Fine.

Porochaz.

[Porochaz]

Marquis.

[Porochaz]

That's 6.

[Porochaz]

[Porochaz]

Pere5.

[Porochaz]

Is that me done?

Now there is going to be this niggling doubt in all your minds. What do we know? Because we know more that we let on. I'll let the ones who I listed dwell on that. Because whilst I lied a little. I didn't lie completely.

Also, yep Im scum, but that whole farside argument was me being honest. Farside you were an utter jerk this game.

I played badly. Deserved to be lynch. Good luck scum.

Frogger
Spiffeh

[Porochaz]

Post 286 alone makes me think Porochaz is town. Why does Titus scum point out fence-sitting by her own partner? Like I don't see her doing that.

What about Ranger you guys???

Y u no trust the 1-shot scumtell?

Because Ranger is probably mafia

Both right!

BTW the 1-shot scumtell was 2 for 2 this game.

That's like 90% accuracy now.

Honestly look up how often I say it, I wouldn't include mine in your percentages.

[Porochaz]

There are a few things about this game I want to comment on but I need my laptop.

[Porochaz]

Alright, some thoughts.

Firstly, this was one of the worst games I played on site. Im really sorry for my play, I would like to say a lot of what I said was true, I was really extremely upset by farside, but I overreacted and I understand why she said what she did. That said, there are ways to deal with it and come to the same conclusions.

Second, my slip wasn't really a slip, I genuinely got mixed up between Bulba and Drixx (?) I can't remember now. But I did look it up and he did say he wasn't in the outer level, but there was no way to kind of portray that without looking scummier.

Third, I always find it very difficult to play with ABR, it's a playstyle clash. My case on him was at least somewhat some of the same points I would have used against him as town. (although I probably wouldn't want to vote him) For instance the bigging up of his own day 1 play was horrible. The unvote when I was about to hammer was pretty crap as well. I didn't follow the game after, but I seem to see he did a lot more for town afterwards. I need to follow through with my thoughts that he needs to be killed off early on, because despite my anger at his play at times, he can be a great asset when he is on form. (or a great detractor when he isn't, which is why I didn't push for his death more day 1)

As for me, I made some really shit posts, I don't know what the fuck I was doing with Ricastle at the start. I had actively decided I was going to play this against my usual play, I have no idea why, Im usually better as scum than town. My scum game is pretty on point at the moment so why I thought I had to play so differently. But people saw through my backtracking and I should have been lynched a lot earlier. I'm just glad that I managed to hold on a lot longer than I thought I would. Cheetory was an excellent player, although after tonight Im going to disappear for a while, I hope, if I return (Ill be around for Weather Mafia, see the first one, for an example of my good scum play) I really want to play with him again. I don't think I could argue with him. Or CO, I enjoyed playing with you again, I think there was a lot of pedantry in the case against me and a lot that was dependant on point of view, but again I tied myself in knots trying to argue what was a straight forward case.

Fro99er was a good player as well, if he can focus on his reads a bit more. The mollie influence can be clearly seen there, which is interesting. I was enjoying "logical mollie". Probably not a great idea to be giving advice considering my play this game, but if you are pursuing avenues that's fine, but throwing your vote all over the place makes your stances look weak and inconsistent, if you weren't so obviously town for other reasons, I would have been all over that. It works more for mollie who is a very emotional player (although YMMV) and is sometimes a bit of a wildcard. For a logical player, like yourself, it undermines your opinions. But you played a good town game. I want to play you with the roles reversed.

As for the scum team, I don't want to berate them, but it just wasn't there. I know a few players in the list, farside, marquis, CO, ABR when he's on form, Tammy, all strong players and was a little dismayed when I saw that I had a lot of newer players and had I didn't even really understand. There wasn't very much gelling, and I watched as pepto and titus started connecting to one another very obviously, then I got roped into that, which we very messily tried to rectify with my horrible post against Titus but I really did not know what to do with her post highlighting the fact that I wasn't making a statement against her. But it was from about that moment that I knew as soon as one of us went, all three of us would go. I had hoped that if I kept distancing myself (bussing is very definitely my weakness in scumgames) it would do something. I was sad Molla and Starbuck weren't able to do more, I really like playing with Molla, but yeah... Starbuck Im sad had to replace out. I'm against players replacing into the same slot/game that they were in, so was a bit gutted when dong came back (sorry dong) for some reason I think that looks hella scummy. But as I was lynched soon after I didn't see how he defended himself, but that was going to be difficult.

That's not to take away from the town, you guys did very well.

Despite that, I do feel the setup was fairly town sided. There was a lot of investigative/power roles in town, and we needed some more power to try and ascertain inner game folk at the very least, we did have a investigative role of our own, but it wasn't all that helpful. We needed to root out and find at least 4 inner game townies and get 2 lynched - no easy feat, and whilst the first part turned out to be easier than expected, the latter was extremely hard. (ironically if I had kept with my fakeclaim ideas, I would have got 7/7 but I think someone in the mafia thread said not frogger which got me doubting myself, we did know katsuki for fact, and I went with all the claimed folk) The game was also decided very early on. With extra power with each level won, there had to be something to counteract that to keep the game running. The end of day 1 I had lost all hope of winning. Part of that was due to my play, and that I knew that there would be two more scum lynches day 2/3, the end of day 2, town were figuring out the setup and by that point, we really couldn't even lie effectively or get out of it. (although my fake claim was a highlight for me, I did enjoy the chaos I caused - even if I was dumb and stated the two unknowns in my death post essentially further confirming them but not sure if anyone noticed that and it was spiffeh/frogger so they were widely regarded as town anyway)

Yeah, Im looking at the setup that was revealed in the first post now, and even if everyone else was vt, the town power that died is almost overpowered on it's own without conditional victory conditions and Tammy's role. We did fall into every trap and town played their roles well (Tammy, Drixx) but I don't think scum could have won this. At least without town absolutely imploding.

I mean, once again, town played really well, and probably do deserve a scummy for this one, mafia played poorly, I played one of my worst games in a long time and it was modded as always excellently by Glork, so even if I felt this was balanced, I don't think the result would have been much different but yeah, I'm sorry for my play to both mod and players, I do hope I get to play with some of you again in better circumstances. Spiffeh I think you are one of the better newer players on site - in my game and this one, cheetory, I said it above, you were great this game.

I don't want to seem bitter, I should have enjoyed this game and I should have enjoyed this player list, but personal circumstances, poor play and being generally burnt out made it an issue. I think town did genuinely well, and I think with a bit of tweaking this could be a great setup, I needed to play to my usual meta, especially against people like ABR and Tammy, who know me, and I still don't know why I didn't :/

Thanks for the game and I hope to play with most of you again on a better day.

[Porochaz]

Holy long essay batman.