UNI MUM Mafia (Day 3, Stay Gold Pony)

[Cerberus v666]

I will agree the VOTE restriction ( I guess post restriction, if he isn't even allowed to attempt to vote) thing bothers me greatly, especially since he refuses to explain why he handled it horribly.

[Cerberus v666]

If the role exists in this game, it's equally likely that we would wagon that person and force their claim as anyone else. That argument is null.

His lack of curiousity ahout how his role functions? Sadly, I see at least one person every game who assumes their role functions certain ways and has to be asked to get clarification from the mod, clarification they should have already asked for. I don't find it unlikely that he wouldn't ask.

I agree with you about the post restriction , thing, we've established that.

DS: That's fine! There are 15 other players, talk to them..:p just don't shut down and force us to lynch you because we have no idea about your alignment because you refuse to talk.

[Cerberus v666]

Errant, what happened to you? A shot was supposed to happen awhile ago, are you reconsidering your optionz, rereading the game, stalling because you were lying, or what?

[Cerberus v666]

Itlepip: If this shot proves to be a normal vig shot, we can still use sharkys power in a more specific fashion that isn't as susceptible to poor wording on his part. If it still doesn't work as intendex, fuck it, lynch him tomorrow.

[Cerberus v666]

I'll even meet you further than that and go so far as to make myself;

i have upheld my end of the bargain

THE PACT IS SEALED
But yeah, have this non-flashy one you can use so that folks can not have a bad time;
or

Hey, EAP, will you be informed when your reflexive power is triggered? That is, if zmuffin goes ahead nad uses his useless power now to prevent anybody else from possibly learning your alignment, would you know that it happened, or would you have no idea?

I am informed of when my power is triggered and there's even a bonus to it that will let me kinda confirm this in-thread.
I can't really confirm myself back to the other player until night-phase, though. It's weird. The reflexive part is instantaneous (I learn I was targeted and am then enabled to confirm my alignment to the person who targeted me) but then I have to target that player at night to inform them.

Got it. That was a definite overshare. Actually, I feel the entire thing about sharing the ability was an overshare. Why did you do that?

[Cerberus v666]

Well, siince you decided to overshare, I must say it doesn't make sense. You say it is reflexive, but you also say you gain an ability to conform yourself to them the next night. That....doesn't quite follow.

[Cerberus v666]

Encouraging behavior that will irritate someone is not ignoring them.

LH: are both your heads in agreement that sharky is the best shot?

[Cerberus v666]

Like, seriously Errant, fucking ask dramonic. I don't give a fuck what the pm implies, if there is EVER any uncertainty about how your role functions(or hell, even if there isn't uncertainty, but you know if you assume wrong it could be bad for town) you should really just ask the mod.

And, I didn't say you shouldn't shoot. Just that shooting him is bad. You should definitely shoot, but it should be at someone who you think is scum.

[Cerberus v666]

Yes, he can blast a fool now. Man, get yo head in the game. Sparky dreamed him a desperado gun which EP says appears to just be a regular vig shot.

[Cerberus v666]

Why are so many of you so eager to die? Pretty sure actively tryng to die is arguably playing against win con. I mean, obviously we don't know who is serious about this, but....if you are, stop it.

Tnx what I said to DS and Jeanne goes for you too. 15 players in the game other than yourself and whoever you have a problem with, work around them, focus on other slots.

[Cerberus v666]

108 hours. I propose this, because even though I'm opposed to vigs, I find it more likely that this is a desperado shot rather than a vig shot.

If Errant hasn't shot *someone* in 12 hours, we just lynch him. His waffling is screwing us out of time for finding a lynch after we see the results of his shot.

[Cerberus v666]

You're shooting D1 because it tells us if the dream worked or if it's just a vig shot. I don't know why you didn't take all that time you spent not shooting to ask dramonic what will happen if you use this shot on a town slot. That would have cleared everything up and you wouldn't have any uncertainty about who to shoot, and you could have come back and told us okay, it's a normal vig per dramonic, do you guys really want me to vig someone D1?

[Cerberus v666]

Shooting sharky is dumb if he honestly thinks sharky is town and that his power he got was a normal vig shot.

Shooting sharky is GREAT if he has a desperado shot, but he doesn't believe he does.

Also, Errant, you never gave us your thoughts on the rest of the game, in case this shot does result in your death.

[Cerberus v666]

Did you ever do what people suggested, and ask him: "If I use this shot on a town player, with no other modifiers in effect what will happen? If I use this shot on a scum player, with no other modifiers in effect, what will happen? If I do not choose to shoot someone before day end, and I am alive at the end of the day, what will happen?"

The answers to those questions would resolve EVERYTHING. I don't think you ever asked them though, you just valued your own interpretation over the answers the mod could give you.

Pedit: also thank you for giving your thoughts. If you have specific reasons why anyone is scummy, or SUPER town, it would be nice to hear them too.

[Cerberus v666]

Oh, TN, you should do the same with regards to reads and reasoning for it, assuming you're around and able to do so.

[Cerberus v666]

Nice.

I suppose we should go see who was pushing for a sharky shot? Or who was just quiet, or opposed to giving the desperado to tn?

[Cerberus v666]

bah town go scum

Good job winding up Jeanne to keep the noise level in the thread high.

[Cerberus v666]

Do not address dead players. It is incredibly rude to taunt/mock/shittalk people who can't respond.
This is an official warning.

Not my intention, won't happen again.

[Cerberus v666]

Yep logic is sound. However, if the shot wasn't compulsive, he shouldn't have used it, and I don't see any reason why he couldn't have theoretically used it on himself (well, unless the mod told him he couldn't. :p), which would have denied town all the information they could have gained beyond his flip. It's possible he's a much stronger role than tn was though, so he's far from confirmed town, but I don't think he's a reasonable lynch today

[Cerberus v666]

I approve of zmuffin targeting EAP with his useless day action .

EAP: confirm said action happened.

[Cerberus v666]

Errant, did you ask those questions I mentioned earlier? If you have more shots....might as well find out what you're shooting.

[Cerberus v666]

Not vote restricted at all, merely choosing to not vote until I find someone I actually want dead. We have an actual flip too, but it's happened while I'm at work, so when I get home I'll be able to reevaluate things.

And, it's not a theory talk thing? It's a "oh, you have more shots in that gun that MAY be a desperado gun, maybe you should go find out of it is one"

What do I think about what, roleplay? I think I find KCS behavior to be similar to that of a game with titus, myself, and kc, where kc was scum, and Titus called her out on her lack of content, but titus has not done so this game, because she claims the situations are very different in ways i have yet to truly examine.

[Cerberus v666]

You also usually put thought into these.

...And maybe tn and Diamond, then molla and Diamond.

ErrantParabola
zmuffinman
Shiro
Jeanne11

Cerberus v666

DiamondSentinel
BBMolla

<----- What is this? SERIOUSLY

tn5421

<----- What is this? DOUBLE SERIOUSLY

Learned Hand
sharky5x

roleplay25
Klingoncelt
Edgar Allan Pro

Davsto

Elbirn

<----- Your second strongest scum read?

3dicerolling

(Though...even then, maybe not? The Learned Hand tier seems a bit low. )
Ack.
I'm going to eat.
I'll figure something out later.

This'll have to do for now.

Roleplay, when I get home I'll show you some things. Hell, I'll tell you them right now earlier in the game, I referenced FF VII mafia, a game wherein mastin deliberately made a ridiculous reads list on D1, even offering reads on people who hadn't even posted yet. PrIor to making her original reads list in this game, she directed my attention to it, saying something like "hey cerb, remember that thing?" And then posted a reads list. I don't actually place any value on that reads list.


I do, however, place a lot of value on the unsubstantiated town read on tn. That could mean something.

[Cerberus v666]

He obviously poked mastin as the person he wanted to be. I have no idea what an immunizer is. Occasionally blocked I can make sense of though.

dramonic: is that the entirety of what you plan to share for any flips? Just the name you have assigned the role, with no explanation?

-Cerb

[Cerberus v666]

Mastin's name is in bracket because that's the role tn5421 picked. It has nothing to do with Mastin actually being a player here
Immunizer -> makes target action immune.
Occasionally Blocked -> Can't action on specific nights.

THANKS!

Hmm. It's NYE. I have to make a choice now. Mafia, or basically anything else.

I'm probably gonna go with anything else.

This decision is subject to change.

[Cerberus v666]

Hai guys. Happy New Year! So, who are we lynching again? It's not errant or Sharky, they're terrible lynches for today, stop being dumb.

Also, Zmuff are you gonna target EAP or what?

Also, I'm down with the KC lynch, because yes, the pool of people who have *no* redeeming posts is getting pretty small.

[Cerberus v666]

Errant/ sharky team isn't unimaginable. And, to those of you saying "inventing a unlimited shot gun can't possibly be a town power! " well....wtf? Do you seriously think it's a scum power? Oh hey D1 I can give my team double kills! Or maybe I'll just give them a regular vig shot in a game not balanced for a vig shot, and use our standard scum redirection/roleblocking type abilities to keep it from hitting us!

Seems as strong for scum as for town. That is, too strong.

[Cerberus v666]

Errant/ sharky team isn't unimaginable. And, to those of you saying "inventing a unlimited shot gun can't possibly be a town power! " well....wtf? Do you seriously think it's a scum power? Oh hey D1 I can give my team double kills! Or maybe I'll just give them a regular vig shot in a game not balanced for a vig shot, and use our standard scum redirection/roleblocking type abilities to keep it from hitting us!

Seems as strong for scum as for town. That is, too strong.

Okay, think about it for a second. We didn't get a mafia flavor flip (they weren't the purple mafia or the mafia with the silly hats or something). So most likely it's a 4 man scumteam with third parties (5 is a little absurd). Or at a minimum they don't know if there's third parties.

And the most common third party is serial killer.

So it's really likely that we leave EP alive. He apparently has an unlimited shot gun we want to use. Now, even if the SK is bulletproof, taking a bullet and having nothing happen is one of those events that attracts attention. So the SK is very likely to want to cap EP. And Sharky, because sharky is also a huge threat. So you'd basically be gambling that there isn't an SK for... what reason? Saving Sharky? Instead of letting us hammer him and just assuming none of you will be shot by the SK and move on.

Hell, if that happened FINE. It's not something we should worry about on day 1. It's disgustingly low percentage. Talk to me about it later.

Roleplay, I think I've come to understand the problem we have. You take me thinking out loud and expressing my belief that something should or wouldn't be dismissed as espousing a given course. I'm not. I don't think sharky/errant are scum and should be lynched(as should be clear by me saying I could support a kc lynch), I'm merely saying it's not outside the realm of possibility that they are scum together....but I'm not saying it's likely. Just..don't dismiss it, that's all.

Pedit: I am also very interested in this, and it needs to happen soon. Also, KC, you are going to be lynched today unless you show up and wow us. Like, seriously. Nobody thinks your town right now(except LH I guess, but they've been uncharacteristically quiet and ineffective (that is, they're not pushing for any of the answers to the questions they have, just throwing them out there and letting them get lost in the noise), so they're not going to be saving you with the level of faith I currently have in them)), so you should probably do something. Like, useful and stuff. Engage with the game.

[Cerberus v666]

Like I have two of the best analysis players in mafia history.

And they're going on like this.

Man if the scumteam left their dick flapping in the wind WE DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT DAY 1.

Because the fucking serial killer HAS to. Who is frankly Sharky, 99%, but I don't care. I really don't care.

I'm not sure who you're referring to here. Is this in reference to LH? Cause I'd agree, but I just want to make sure I'm not misunderstanding.

[Cerberus v666]

Unlikely because if it's not multiball and sharky/errant are scum, giving the gun to errant drew unnecessary attention to him, when the same goal could have been accomplished by simply giving the gun to tn as originally requested. As scum, they could have then gone through the same oh crap I got a real gun maybe sharky screwed up song and dance, and shot town with it when we pressured them.

No scum flip happens then, and there's grounds for defense to try to keep tn, who took the shot, from getting lynched.

It's simply a terrible line for them to take.

[Cerberus v666]

Oh, and I think the post restriction is simply about voting, not about what action he can take with his dream. At least that's how I understood it.

[Cerberus v666]

So, does that mean you did your useless thing to him?

[Cerberus v666]

Sweet.

[Cerberus v666]

*sigh*

I have a message out to dramonic that he hasn't read yet, seems like he just isn't around at all today. Really wanna know if we have confirmation on the EAP thing, and where the VC is at now.

[Cerberus v666]

Since family night isn't happening tonight, thought I'd pop in quickly to say: not site flaking.
Just...very, very preoccupied with something that to you would be something you'd prioritize as being below mafia but which to me is really, really, REALLY important. (Read my blog for the details.)
Regardless of whether I succeed or fail, I'm going to be back Monday, but that's time I won't be here, because...well, yeah. I REALLY want to get this project done. It holds significant personal meaning to me and is a MAJOR milestone in my life if I can get it done. (We're talking like, "finishing the first draft of my novel" big, or "getting my first job" big. As in, HUGE.) So I'm going to ask my hydra partner to hold the fort until Monday. I'll overcome inertia and contribute then. Somehow. Because yeah, need to rebalance my mafia life. Just...now now. Three days from now. Consider it V/LA.

Focus mastin. You can do it. Let me know when you have it done.

Anyways, hi guys. Who wants to be my friend today?

[Cerberus v666]

Also, umm, I'm kinda concerned about our missing mod man. As in, worried. Last VC was on NYE, 38 hours ago, and he has a message from me that hasn't been checked in almost a day....

[Cerberus v666]

You've

got

to be kidding me...

Nice OMGUS Errant. That's so fucking terrible

And the fact that Jeanne jumped on it is beyond ridiculous. If nobody does anything about this scummy exhibit, then, well, SOMETHING. I don't know what. But something.

I'm looking at you, Cerberus. As the de facto town leader, I hope you do something about this.

You..don't want me as the town leader. Not this weekend. Life is too amazing for hardcore mafiaing. Going after DS is dumb though. I don't remember why. Hmm. Oh. Yeah. Okay. I went through DS' ISO trying to remember why people don't like him, and I realized it was the stupid miller thing at the root of it all. His logic with regards to errant is perfectly acceptable, not scummy or inconsistent.

No good reasons for wanting his head exist.

So, also looked at tns iso (which isn't actually what I was interested in, I cared more about how other people felt about tn, but I'm busy and don't have the time for all that). Only people he actively attacked were Jeanne and sharky. He kept saying sharky was scummy but not his top scum read, but nobody ever pressed him on who his top scumread was. :/

At the height of his wagon, which was 4 I believe, when he asked for people who hadn't given a reason for their vote on him to give a reason, he was being voted by roleplay, elbirn, jeanne, and LH.

Votecount 3: Hey, replacing out makes ME miserable

tn5421 (4): roleplay25, Elbirn, Jeanne11, Learned Hand
DiamondSentinel (3): ErrantParabola, 3dicerolling, Davsto
Jeanne11 (2): tn5421, DiamondSentinel
zmuffinman (1): Edgar Allan Pro
3dicerolling (1): Mass Flop

Not Voting: Klingoncelt, Cerberus v666, sharky5x, Shiro, BBMolla, zmuffinman

It is 9 to lynch. Theoretical Deadline is in 12 days and 5 hours, although Holiday Special Extension is possible.

Quick Reminder: It's the holiday season, please keep it civil and jolly. No need to call each other retards :/

22)

Policy:

Have fun. Or else. And remember, it's a game - keep it classy and don't take things personally; everyone's doing what they have to to win.

Then, over the next 4.5 pages, this happened. I need to read these pages and see wtf went on here.
RP and Jeanne moved to sharky, LH moved to DS.

LH decided she didn't like the company on the tn wagon (so, elbirn rp, and jeanne) except for rp and jeanne (so just elbirn).

RP moved to DS when he made his dumb omg I suck just kill me post, then to KC in response to the Judas etc. comments about Ds, then to sharky...after Jeanne naked voted him? So basically for no reason?

Jeanne....makes no sense here. Sec.

Okau. Had to go find where she voted tn. She votes him before going afk for 16h at my request to keep us from flooding the thread. Just says I'm game, so is perfectly happy with a tn lynch. Later, she says she'll never go after him, while voting him, is questioned by 3dice on that and then naked votes sharky. RP sheeps.

VC after that stuff happens.

Votecount 4: Merry Miserable Xmas!

DiamondSentinel (4): ErrantParabola, 3dicerolling, Davsto, Learned Hand
sharky5x (2): Jeanne11, Roleplay25
Jeanne11 (2): tn5421, DiamondSentinel
zmuffinman (1): Edgar Allan Pro
3dicerolling (1): Mass Flop
tn5421 (1): Elbirn

Not Voting: Klingoncelt, Cerberus v666, sharky5x, Shiro, itlepip, zmuffinman

itlepip replaces BBMolla, effective immediately~!

It is 9 to lynch. Theoretical Deadline is in 10 days and 3 hours, although Holiday Special Extension is possible.

Not sure what I got out of all that, actually, but it's really fucking interesting.

Pedit: I'm still unopposed to a kc lynch. If scum, a LH lynch is a good move next. Last time I checked KCs play here is actually just all excuses and dodging, like suikoden. Don't understand Titus insisting that things are different.

KC: you keep promising to be here, and you're never here.

EAP: will you be conftown to zmuffin tomorrow, yes or no? And remember what my standards for conftown are. :p

LH: please convince Drixx to play this game a bit. I'd like him to iso roleplay and mass flop and give his thoughts.

[Cerberus v666]

Okay, I thought a bit more. LH hates bussing, both heads. TN didn't do enough to seem like a lost cause. Seriously Titus, Drixx, I NEED you to explain the KC read. If you're town, as seems likely if this is not multiball, I'm willing to accept the KC read but not when she's doing the exact same thing you're claiming she isn't doing.

[Cerberus v666]

Elbirn, why would scum KC know about EAP and sharkys post restrictions?

Kc, why didn't you just ask if anyone had a post restriction early in the game?

[Cerberus v666]

...

Wow.

Okay no, my previous post I felt you were likely scum because of the inconsistent response to a certain type of behavior from a specific player, not something I put much weight on (that is, their previous behaviors being indicative if alignment), but I know YOU do, so it pinged as suspicious.

I then did some more thinking, and realized shit, no, that won't work, because neither Drixx or yourself would support a lynch on a teammate. The votes moved off pretty quickly, and your reasoning was shit and never explained (as in, why did you it just say you didn't like that elbirn was on the wagon, and instead phrased it in a way that would be missed without context, and you didn't have any problems with elbirn prior to that that I can recall so wtf why?), BUT I still find it unlikely that you'd vote him. So, that means I have to consider a universe in which you are town, which is I pled with you to give me a better answer, and why I asked for Drixx's thoughts on specific ISOs.

So yeah, you misunderstood that completely. I felt it was clear from the statement that I thought some more, then stating facts which contradict my previous assertion , while asking for input from you, that I was no longer considering you as likely scum.

[Cerberus v666]

Oh, also. 1) only one action per day/night phase, it's right there in the sample pm, Errant CAN'T shoot again until tomorrow.

[Cerberus v666]

I had more points to make, I thought, but they all fled and I eglected to remove the 1). :p

[Cerberus v666]

Dumbasses.

I get slammed at home all week and you try to vote me off?

@dramonic

Confirm Innocent, please.

Ooh.

[Cerberus v666]

Also, take V/LA next time. :p basically the only reason why it's you in the hot seat instead of mass flop is because mastin said v/la.

[Cerberus v666]

@Cerb/Elbrin,

I know how to read Klingon. Now, which of you gets lynched first is up to Drixx.

Not getting lynched. :p Also, why do you want to lynch me again? I don't think you've expressed it. Ditto with Elbirn, but I don't care about him. :p

[Cerberus v666]

I don't understand the Klingoncelt voting happening in quick succession as of late.

@Cerb: I really hope I'm as confirmed as you like me. You know that my only-true-confirmed is IC or dead, though. I can't promise either of those.

Still haven't gotten the actual results from dram that I should. :/

People freaking out over possible day end. Some scum opportunistically deciding to pIle on.

Well, let me rephrase that: will zmuffin receive a mesafe fromm the mod telling him your alignment, or will he have confirmation of an ability of yours that is improbable as scum?

LH: is this because you can't sort me by vca because I don't vote? Just a random thought I had.

[Cerberus v666]

So much waiting...

[Cerberus v666]

So, umm, lots of lies are going on here, with multiple scum teams, OR scum are stupid fucking srrong.

Anyways, wish you had been here more KC to drag more information out of the wagon pushers. :p now, eh, where do we go from here?

[Cerberus v666]

Do we like itlepip? He's been relatively quiet since his big entrance, which I liked, but hm. I need to iso. Also need to look into both the tn and the KC wagon. Meh.

I guess I'll do that tomorrow. Be productive guys.

Pedit: He said the confirmation would happen in the nighf, but, well, we shall see.

Also, man, why didn't I not push for zmuffin to target him, bulletproof woulda been sweet on me..p

Pedit again: yay gambit.

[Cerberus v666]

We...don't have 3 conftowns. We have *1* conftown, and a claim by EAP that zmuffin is town. A cop clear by an unconfirmed cop and a conftown. Unless I'm missing something?

[Cerberus v666]

Muffin did not get to confirm EAP. EAP said muffin would originally, but that was a lie to get someone to target him. So all we have is EAPS word that any of that is true. The role copping is almost certainly true because we can test it and zmuffin can confirm, but the alignment copping amd bodyguard/bulletproof are unknown.

[Cerberus v666]

Yeah, just lynch me. I'm terrible at the game and my role is useless. Hell, I might even self-hammer.

I mean, my role isn't strictly negative... It's just that it's not really positive either.

If Innocent Child is considered miserable, then I'm sorely disappointed. But whatever. I was clearly misunderstanding what I was signing up for.

I was expecting miserable as in "negative-utility, very nigh on bastard role list", not just "generally boring roles to play with".



Lynch me if you want. I'm just a Vanilla Townie.

Scott Pilgrim to be precise. All of my girlfriends are really cool, but I'm just a regular guy even though I'm pretty proficient with hand-to-hand and sword fighting. (paraphrase of role PM, btw) And I'm claiming because I appear to be at L-2, by my count.

Hmm. Not sure I buy this. How is VT either positive or negative...and you implied it's at least *somewhat* negstive, because it isn't "strictly" negative. I can kinds see how it makes sense, but I also..don't.

[Cerberus v666]

That's because she hasn't. In spite of me asking, repeatedly, about both Elbirn and myself. Also, I hate to be a broken record here but you're not lynching me.

[Cerberus v666]

DS is town. Jeanne is town. Scum pushed Kling based on lies.

So who is up for a Cerb or Elbrin lynch?

~Titus

Are you two going to actually do anything or just keep repeating this?

You're both extremely competent players and I find it hard to believe that this is the best you can do, i.e. nothing.

Sell me on cerb in your next post or claim scum

They're not this dumb as scum. More inclined to think Drixx is behind and Titus hasn't touched bases with him. I mean, it's *possible* they're scum, of course, but that wouldn't be my first suggestion.

Also, eh, LH: You do realize I wasn't pushing Klingon. All those posts were about YOU not reacting to her, not about me thinking she was scummy. I just didn't care if she was lynched or not, because she wasn't being useful at all. ^^

[Cerberus v666]

Titus. Please stop misunderstanding me.

I couldn't care less about klingons behavior in previous games, I don't know her that well. I know YOU care a lot about meta though, and I've played with you a good bit more. Every single post that questions KC's behavior was AIMED AT YOU. I was always asking YOU why behavior I saw as similar to a scum game of hers, wasn't something that you were pressuring her about. YOU are the person I'm pushing, not Klingon. Klingon just hasn't mattered. I push people on *contradictions*, and resign myself to lynching them based on lack of content or contributions, if no contradictions become evident.

Let's go over those quotes of mine.

In the first one, someone else had just suggested KC as a lynch, and I just said I was fine with it, no tbecause she was scummy, but because there was nothing good in her iso at all, that is, no indication of scum hunting or trying.

In the second one, I told KC to talk and actually be useful because the absence of doing so was the only reason why anybody wanted her lynched, *nobody* ever had a good reason for lynching her, but nobody actually ever gave a good reason to think she was scum.

In the third one, I mention that she's not around. Yeah. That's it.

Also, LH, if you want to try to claim credit for getting tn with the shot...I'd like to remind you that YOU wanted sharky shot, not tn. Yes, you wanted TN to have the shot invented to him, since you thought he was scummy...but once the gun went elsewhere, sharky became scummier to you than tn. That's fair, since he did do something other than he said he would do, and what he gave was claimed by Errant to be something other than it was supposed to be...so yeah, reasonable, but...worth noting.

[Cerberus v666]

Hai guys. Happy New Year! So, who are we lynching again? It's not errant or Sharky, they're terrible lynches for today, stop being dumb.

Also, Zmuff are you gonna target EAP or what?

Also, I'm down with the KC lynch, because yes, the pool of people who have *no* redeeming posts is getting pretty small.

Errant/ sharky team isn't unimaginable. And, to those of you saying "inventing a unlimited shot gun can't possibly be a town power! " well....wtf? Do you seriously think it's a scum power? Oh hey D1 I can give my team double kills! Or maybe I'll just give them a regular vig shot in a game not balanced for a vig shot, and use our standard scum redirection/roleblocking type abilities to keep it from hitting us!

Seems as strong for scum as for town. That is, too strong.

Okay, think about it for a second. We didn't get a mafia flavor flip (they weren't the purple mafia or the mafia with the silly hats or something). So most likely it's a 4 man scumteam with third parties (5 is a little absurd). Or at a minimum they don't know if there's third parties.

And the most common third party is serial killer.

So it's really likely that we leave EP alive. He apparently has an unlimited shot gun we want to use. Now, even if the SK is bulletproof, taking a bullet and having nothing happen is one of those events that attracts attention. So the SK is very likely to want to cap EP. And Sharky, because sharky is also a huge threat. So you'd basically be gambling that there isn't an SK for... what reason? Saving Sharky? Instead of letting us hammer him and just assuming none of you will be shot by the SK and move on.

Hell, if that happened FINE. It's not something we should worry about on day 1. It's disgustingly low percentage. Talk to me about it later.

Roleplay, I think I've come to understand the problem we have. You take me thinking out loud and expressing my belief that something should or wouldn't be dismissed as espousing a given course. I'm not. I don't think sharky/errant are scum and should be lynched(as should be clear by me saying I could support a kc lynch), I'm merely saying it's not outside the realm of possibility that they are scum together....but I'm not saying it's likely. Just..don't dismiss it, that's all.

Pedit: I am also very interested in this, and it needs to happen soon. Also, KC, you are going to be lynched today unless you show up and wow us. Like, seriously. Nobody thinks your town right now(except LH I guess, but they've been uncharacteristically quiet and ineffective (that is, they're not pushing for any of the answers to the questions they have, just throwing them out there and letting them get lost in the noise), so they're not going to be saving you with the level of faith I currently have in them)), so you should probably do something. Like, useful and stuff. Engage with the game.

You've

got

to be kidding me...

Nice OMGUS Errant. That's so fucking terrible

And the fact that Jeanne jumped on it is beyond ridiculous. If nobody does anything about this scummy exhibit, then, well, SOMETHING. I don't know what. But something.

I'm looking at you, Cerberus. As the de facto town leader, I hope you do something about this.

You..don't want me as the town leader. Not this weekend. Life is too amazing for hardcore mafiaing. Going after DS is dumb though. I don't remember why. Hmm. Oh. Yeah. Okay. I went through DS' ISO trying to remember why people don't like him, and I realized it was the stupid miller thing at the root of it all. His logic with regards to errant is perfectly acceptable, not scummy or inconsistent.

No good reasons for wanting his head exist.

So, also looked at tns iso (which isn't actually what I was interested in, I cared more about how other people felt about tn, but I'm busy and don't have the time for all that). Only people he actively attacked were Jeanne and sharky. He kept saying sharky was scummy but not his top scum read, but nobody ever pressed him on who his top scumread was. :/

At the height of his wagon, which was 4 I believe, when he asked for people who hadn't given a reason for their vote on him to give a reason, he was being voted by roleplay, elbirn, jeanne, and LH.

Votecount 3: Hey, replacing out makes ME miserable

tn5421 (4): roleplay25, Elbirn, Jeanne11, Learned Hand
DiamondSentinel (3): ErrantParabola, 3dicerolling, Davsto
Jeanne11 (2): tn5421, DiamondSentinel
zmuffinman (1): Edgar Allan Pro
3dicerolling (1): Mass Flop

Not Voting: Klingoncelt, Cerberus v666, sharky5x, Shiro, BBMolla, zmuffinman

It is 9 to lynch. Theoretical Deadline is in 12 days and 5 hours, although Holiday Special Extension is possible.

Quick Reminder: It's the holiday season, please keep it civil and jolly. No need to call each other retards :/

22)

Policy:

Have fun. Or else. And remember, it's a game - keep it classy and don't take things personally; everyone's doing what they have to to win.

Then, over the next 4.5 pages, this happened. I need to read these pages and see wtf went on here.
RP and Jeanne moved to sharky, LH moved to DS.

LH decided she didn't like the company on the tn wagon (so, elbirn rp, and jeanne) except for rp and jeanne (so just elbirn).

RP moved to DS when he made his dumb omg I suck just kill me post, then to KC in response to the Judas etc. comments about Ds, then to sharky...after Jeanne naked voted him? So basically for no reason?

Jeanne....makes no sense here. Sec.

Okau. Had to go find where she voted tn. She votes him before going afk for 16h at my request to keep us from flooding the thread. Just says I'm game, so is perfectly happy with a tn lynch. Later, she says she'll never go after him, while voting him, is questioned by 3dice on that and then naked votes sharky. RP sheeps.

VC after that stuff happens.

Votecount 4: Merry Miserable Xmas!

DiamondSentinel (4): ErrantParabola, 3dicerolling, Davsto, Learned Hand
sharky5x (2): Jeanne11, Roleplay25
Jeanne11 (2): tn5421, DiamondSentinel
zmuffinman (1): Edgar Allan Pro
3dicerolling (1): Mass Flop
tn5421 (1): Elbirn

Not Voting: Klingoncelt, Cerberus v666, sharky5x, Shiro, itlepip, zmuffinman

itlepip replaces BBMolla, effective immediately~!

It is 9 to lynch. Theoretical Deadline is in 10 days and 3 hours, although Holiday Special Extension is possible.

Not sure what I got out of all that, actually, but it's really fucking interesting.

Pedit: I'm still unopposed to a kc lynch. If scum, a LH lynch is a good move next. Last time I checked KCs play here is actually just all excuses and dodging, like suikoden. Don't understand Titus insisting that things are different.

KC: you keep promising to be here, and you're never here.

EAP: will you be conftown to zmuffin tomorrow, yes or no? And remember what my standards for conftown are. :p

LH: please convince Drixx to play this game a bit. I'd like him to iso roleplay and mass flop and give his thoughts.

We should lynch Klingon.

That's not a push according to your semantics. Then you've never pushed anyone.

I NEVER said the bolded. Never. Never. NEVER. I never made a case against her, I never did *anything* to indicate that I thought she was scum. I ALWAYS said that I thought YOU should think she was scum.

[Cerberus v666]

I never voted scum. I brought up the idea of shooting tn again after conversation shifted to shooting sharky, but that was really because nobody had said why we shouldn't shoot tn, and I was arguing we shouldn't shoot sharky.

Also, LH did come up with the desperado shot thing, which didn't force a scum death in a vacuum, but it did force a situation that, in the worst case, confirmed someone as town and killed off town who would be mislynch bait, so it was a good plan.

[Cerberus v666]

I never voted scum. I brought up the idea of shooting tn again after conversation shifted to shooting sharky, but that was really because nobody had said why we shouldn't shoot tn, and I was arguing we shouldn't shoot sharky.

Also, LH did come up with the desperado shot thing, which didn't force a scum death in a vacuum, but it did force a situation that, in the worst case, confirmed someone as town and killed off town who would be mislynch bait, so it was a good plan.

What do you mean by vacuum?

I mean, if you break this down to the simplest situation, Errant chose to shoot TN. THAT'S what forced a scum death. The plan LH came up with didn't do as much as they're claiming it did. The proximate cause of the scum death was Errant choosing to shoot TN. The next closest cause was the members of the town who pushed him to shoot tn. The NEXT NEXT next closest cause was sharky giving the shot to Errant. The NEXT NEXT NEXT next closest was LH coming up with the plan that involved giving a desperado gun to tn.

pedit: Because I'm being lazy/busy The TN associatives are fairly crappy. If you look above, you see me beginning to look at the wagon composition and asking about various associatives regarding the gun and the shot at tn, but I haven't had time to look into it myself, I've just seen what others had to say(Sharky, that is). So yeah.

[Cerberus v666]

No response to me 3dice? I answered your question!

Also, about the invented desperado gun... let's just say I have reason to believe that the mod believes 1) you can't change someone's role, 2) you can't restrict a gun, other than in number of shots, and 3) the default number of shots given, if not specified, depends on exact wording used.

So, basically, it's probably unlimited and a regular vig. Need to reread davsto, buf, well....voteless scum? Not impossible, seems hard to balance though. Voteless scum that is given the tools to appear to have a vote and leave uncertainty as to who exactly is the voteless party, but claims their votelessness AND asks to be policy lynched? That appears extremely improbable.

[Cerberus v666]

Is davsto the sort of player who would make a play like that?

[Cerberus v666]

I mean, the problem with claiming one should be a policy lynch is once you get to end game you need to hope nobody remembered your assertion, or that town doesn't know when lylo is/you can convince them that the scum team is a different size. Maybe you could have a plan to bus when down to 2 team members, and leave the last member in a strong position to win...but meh, claiming that one should be policy lynched as scum, when the town has no reason to think you should be lynched and you have no pressure on you that you need to deflect seems like a really risky play.

[Cerberus v666]

I hate the idea of mislynching LH. Way too strong a town asset mid to late game to kill on D1 even if they're suspicious...plus I can't be certain of anything until I see me some Drixx.

[Cerberus v666]

I think that's the issue. Well, part of it at least. You stating you should be policy lynched, then saying a policy lynch in you is worse than a vig shot because of the lack of wagon info, though true, appears to be an attempt to delay your death.

[Cerberus v666]

That's because when I first suggested me being policy lynched, there was no vig to kill me.

It is undeniably better to kill me with a vigilante than to lynch me. It's as simple as that.

I agree. I'm just explaining why the argument is unconvincing in this context, and why mass flop isn't really misrepresenting you imo.

Jeanne, do you think there is scum in the anime alliance? Remember, no sharing who is part of the alliance!

[Cerberus v666]

Hmm. I think I might have to proceed on the assumption there's none there.

Mastin, Drixx, if you both show up and provide insights and agree on a best lynch, I will be happy. I am even willing to sheep you on your agreed lynchee. Yes, I am attempting to bribe you both into being useful.

[Cerberus v666]

I agree that policy lynching you is bad. So, hmm. Does anybody think shiro is town? Why? I keep kinds auto skipping him when I look at the playerlist to figure out who I actually am okay with lynching today, and I'm not sure why. Miller claim and all, Errant seems more likely town than scum, like, umm, actually, given the answers to my question, Errant is 99% town if this isn't multiball. So, that means we have another miller claim....that is automatically less likely to be true, imo. It might be, but yeah....

Thoughts on shiro?

[Cerberus v666]

i think errant is more likely town than scum, but this game is almost certainly multiball of some sort (probably not multiple scum teams, but i would be surprised if dram didn't include at least one third party)

Why?

[Cerberus v666]

- We have no idea EP's alignment still - yes
- We have no idea what sharky's gun will do - I asked the mod numerous questions. Based on the answers, I am certain EAPs gun, if it came to him from sharky, is a vig gun and has unlimited shots.
- Scum can shoot EP overnight to block the shot -sure, but I don't mind that at all.
- If scum leave EP alive is his committed target town or scum? - that's just Wifom we ignore. Who cares? If davsto is scum, great. If he's ltown, we're still in your worst case scenario, which you were okay with.
- What if there's an investigation result or 50/50 we need to commit the shot to? - then we shoot that and lynch appropriately?

Again,I'm 99% EP is town since he could have shot anyone with basically no negative repercussions, and he shot scum. Unless he's part of another scum team/sk, and that's something we can resolve later. He's going to shoot the person we want him to shoot regardless of alignment though.....as third party/scum, he knows he gets lynched if he shoots against town's will. As scum handed a gun, it's incredibly bad play by him to give us cause to lynch him.

[Cerberus v666]

Can we stop drawing parallels between tn and davsto? They're different people.

[Cerberus v666]

Davsto, good luck. :p You are a genius mastermind scum who is next leveling all of us, apparently, since I said the same thing you're saying and people seem to think you would make that play in some sort of long con.

[Cerberus v666]

Can we stop drawing parallels between tn and davsto? They're different people.

So you're hard coming down on the side of Davsto town?

I'd like this on record, giving how appallingly bad the scum position would be if two scum were killed before night 1 even started.

No, I'm hard coming down on the side of bad arguments are bad. The situation is different from tn, AND he's a different player. Now, push him on his lack of scumhuntinf, and I'd be more than happy to go with thar, but the arguments you're giving are bad ones.

[Cerberus v666]

He absolutely isn't. 'm having a lot of trouble reconciling his unneeded creation of a situation where he would be policy lynched with scum behavior though.

[Cerberus v666]

Don't worry, she's my neighbor, she'll track better than that. Of course, she probably shouldn't track who id suggest either.

I could wholeheartedly support an itlepip lynch, pending review of the slot.

Davsto, go be useful, stop defending yourself, you already said the only thing that matters, either they think you'd make that play or they don't.

EAP: where are the scum? Point them out to me please kthx.

[Cerberus v666]

Yeah.......me and Cerb are anime alliance and he just outed us out.......

Jeanne, I confirmed that you were my neighbor DAYS ago, when you screwed up and said you were a neighborizer, instead of a neighbor, because you would have eaten rope over that contradictory claim way back then.

Pedit: Mass Flop makes a very good point. A non voter is not someone you try to get lynched as scum.

[Cerberus v666]

See RP, you've now reached the point I was at a few days ago. All the people I'd normally want to lynch have, well, shown that there's merit to keeping them alive.

Pedit: dunno, never played with either one, but sharky hasn't been wholly useless. Shiro has been though. I think.

Why is itlepip not someone you want to lynch, rp, given your agreement about what someone, idk who, had to say about his thoughts regarding DS?

[Cerberus v666]

Meh, shoulda Pedited again.itlepip is close to rhe top there.

[Cerberus v666]

Hmm. I think I'll do this.

VOTE: Itlepip

Primary reason? Hard pushing sharky as the proper target for the shot errant had, AND not following through on his claim to lynch EP if he shot elsewhere. Like he didn't even try, didn't even look into EP being scum, or talk about it at all, while other people WERE discussing it. Super weird and inconsistent. Dunno why scum him wouldn't have jumped on the EP hate train with DS though. But, eh, we're down to 3 days. I can't figure everything out before deadline.

[Cerberus v666]

I really liked his reaction test with his fake vote way back. I had a strong town read on Davsto and he hasn't really done for me to change that. I understand the whole thing that is happening with Davsto kinda defending himself, but it doesn't feel that productive. If Davsto has a reason for trying to last an extra day and was scum, he would have claimed some 1 shot useful PR thing. I'm not sure there is a convincing narrative for what scumDavsto is doing but I understand what townDavsto is doing to I accept townDavsto right now.

Mmmm, that's fair.

Cerberus votes! My heart nearly fails.

I know right? He triggered all the switches. Opposed shooting scum, and acted inconsistently with previously expressed opinions.

[Cerberus v666]

But....you didn't even try. Like, not at all. Just, like mostly disappeared. And didn't mention EP when you came back. I just...I'm not a fan. There's also the DS thing, but meh. I see both perspectives, and I feel like yours is marginally closer to crazy conspiracy theory stuff than the opposing view.

[Cerberus v666]

um, we knew that Jeanne.

Also the 3die defense of Diamond doesn't make any sense to me. Sure there isn't normally there isn't any reason for scum to try to get a confTown lynched since it seems scummy, but there also isn't normally reason for town to try to lynch mod confirmed town. So you end up in a spot where neither town nor scum would normally make an action. Now Diamond could be town that got confused by the setup, but that also easily could be scum that had the thought for a moment and thought he could convince town of it. Diamond then just quietly to the next wagon after the paranoia didn't set in as far as he wanted, but he still tried to push kling as scum as much as he could

Man I feel you. I also need a visit by the doc to be of any use.

Sharkly role sounds too good to be true .

Tbh I am pretty sure kling will have something in her role as well that we do not know yet

THANK YOU! Someone's not a total moron here.

IMO Davsto has been super towny, and I expect there to be at least 1 scum between Mass and RP, and Diamond is just sheeping his buddy. Obviously Davsto has to be killed before lylo, but using a vigi shot is way more effective and I haven't seen a good reason why using the vigi shot is bad.

Wait, WHY does Davsto have to be killed before LyLo? He doesn't even have a vote, which means that Town-Davsto would be who mafia MOST wants to take to LyLo.

He means killed by town via lynch or vig, not nk.

[Cerberus v666]

Unvote

KC got a role that confirms her town so decided to play like total fucking shit. Whatever.

Catching up.

VOTE: Roleplay25

This needs to go.

What? Because he said you're playing terribly? You are. :p *shrug* I know you've been busy etc., but you didn't even engage with the wagon at all to get more information on the members of the wagon before you ended up confirmed. You....basically wasted your role, because you couldn't be bothered to go v/la during a time when you wouldn't be available.

[Cerberus v666]

I predict the town will freak out and rush some lynch in the last 12 hours of the day. I wish I could do more to prevent that, but I'm super busy the next 36 hours. :/

[Cerberus v666]

Dram gave a 3 day extension which we spent almost lynching KC and then became wracked with indecision.

People could not have figures out his votelessness zmuffin. He shows up in counts, but his vote counts as zero if hammer were to happen. So, in the case of today, if I understand correctly. ....there would be 9 names voting, but it would only show 8 as voting, but prior to that it would show the correct numbers. If we're willing to do some science with people hopping on and off the wagon we could figure it out, but all he'd have to do is not be on the wagon at the time the hammer happens and nobody would ever notice.

About itlepip...within a couple sentences of the one you quoted has me saying that I don't know why scum him wouldn't join in on the conversation about EP.

Is it really so much less suspicious to say " We lynch him regardless of the alignment of who he shoots, if he doesn't shoot sharky," thus implying that going "oh he shot scum, let's lynch him", than actually making that statement after the shot would have been???

Yes, Shiro is the other top choice, of you would, at this point today. Is this a vote for being unproductive, or because he actually did something scummy?

[Cerberus v666]

You answered my question zmuffin, the point was to determine if you found it scummy to suggest lynching him even if he shot scum.

Perhaps my perspective is skewed because my personal preference usually leaves me off the wagon when it gets hammered (because even if I'm willing to vote someone, I usually want to slow things down and get more out of them before the hammer happens, andmy place on the wagon tells me nothing since I already know my alignment, but seeing who else votes to take up the pressure I relinquished is good informtion), but I don't see it as that unreasonable for scumsto to be in the middle of wagons, off others cases, and unvote based on the persons defense, and not be there for hammsrs. Doesn't seem hard at all.

I don't particularly like shiro's "oh yeah, im lurking, contrary to my normal play, but oh well, what can you do" response. That's. ..not great.

[Cerberus v666]

Yeah, like I said, my perspective might be skewed because *I* could do it between knowing how and why I do it, and having an established meta showing that isn't unexpected play from me. Not so much for davsto perhaps.

If you find it reasonable for him to, as scum, reveal this ability and assert that he is a policy lynch, why exactly are you not bothered by him pushing back against bsing lynched? Is it just that you agree it's better to vig him tHan lynch him, or is there some other reason?

[Cerberus v666]

VOTE: Shiro
I shall be the sheep in sheep's clothing.

Also, this is the zMuffin I was hoping to see, so this is good.
I can follow this.

My reservations re: Roleplay and Davsto is that the freakout by Davsto doesn't feel 'real' or it's weird and I don't know what to make of it and I'm not a superfan of Roleplay's push there.

How do you feel about this wagon if roleplay joins it, considering shiro was at the top of his possible lynch list?

[Cerberus v666]

To be more exaxt, I suppose, I need clarification on another point: is roleplay the problem, or is his push the problem?

[Cerberus v666]

Like, if you want to vote me, fine. At least you'll be taking a fucking position come end of day, and be on a wagon with more than 1 vote. It's a shit position and you'd have to be brain damaged to think I'm scum here, but fine. At least you'd fucking be doing something useful.

One vote wagons don't kill people. You're fucking on a one vote wagon, so either try to get other people who agree with you to vote it, or fucking get on a more useful wagon. There ain't one scum left, so don't give me "I only have one fucking scumread" bullshit.

I am fine voting scum. I hate both wagons with more than one vote.

I am taking a position. Elbrin is scum.

Cerb is more obvious but Drixx doesn't see it.

I am under no obligation to vote a wagon because it has votes.

Did Drixx finally read through the early game here and realize there's no fucking way I'm comfortable enough as scum to be spewing nonsense everywhere in pretty uncharacteristic fashion for me to actually be scum? Or does he just realize you have a very bad history when it comes to reading my slots?

^^

Anyway, carry on with your elbirn tunnel, if I had to make a choice between the two of you I'd pick your side LH, but only because I know the value of your hydra when it comes to breaking this game in half..if you're town, and I'm not willing to forfeit that strength on D1.

[Cerberus v666]

Also, now that I think about it, you've only ever even tried to buddy me when you were scum. You ALWAYS go after me as town, so, ya know, this fits with that too.

[Cerberus v666]

It's still D1.
Can we lynch Shiro already?

I was pretty in favor of shiro, but the point about him being rick (which I had already realized) who is an anti-hero(duh), and thus made perfect sense as a miller (oh. Shit. I'm stupid. ), makes me a lot less eager for that wagon, on the miller counterclaim and EP is likely town basis at least.

[Cerberus v666]

How does everyone feel about the members of the short lived wagon on tn, LH, Jeanne, Elbirn, and RP?

Pedit: No lies here. KC sucked early and she sucks now, but at least she's not gonna get mislynched and she's on VLA.

[Cerberus v666]

Oh, to clarify, the members of said wagon on TN were : LH, Elbirn, Jeanne, and RP, all of whom left the wagon for shit reasons.

[Cerberus v666]

Except Elbirn! Sorry Elbirn, forgot you hung out there until the next vc at least and I didn't go look any deeper. :p

[Cerberus v666]

LH, I'll say this one final time: KHs play was just as..lacking in fire, to my perspective, as it was in Suikoden. You are someone who I expected fo comment on that, and you never did. I wanted to know why. EVERYTHING about what I was saying with regard to Klingon was about figuring out why YOU were acting in a fashion I didn't expect, not about Klingon. I never had an opinion on Klingon, but I expected YOU to have one that included commentary on her "lack of fire".

Also, so you believe both Elbirn and RP were moving to bus tn at that point?

[Cerberus v666]

Dude. Titus. Fucking tell me, right now, that you think I, Mr. Fuck your meta reads, would, as scum, depart from that and make a fucking meta case on someone with NO OTHER EVIDENCE AT ALL in thread to support any read of them?

Please. Tell me you sincerely believe I would choose to depart from my established TOWN meta Ina game with people who have played with me before and know me well, just to...what....push klingon? The fuck do I care about Klingon as scum? To threaten you? No,you're both pains in the ass, I'd just nk you.

Listen to yourself Titus, and try to see how little sense what you're accusing me of doing makes sense for scum me.

[Cerberus v666]

Titus.......I suppose we won't be friends this game. That's fine. It would be easier to get things done without the antagonistic response I always seem to get from you, but whatever. You're just being stubborn and wrong about me, so meh. Also, I don't need to do anything to to get townread by you. I can make you townread me, without any need to sheep you...it's just not very efficient. Much better ways to spend my time.

Also.I think I already helped town remove scum, because ya know, EP was going to shoot fucking sharky at your recommendation until i talked him out of it AND brought up tn again as a viable option, but ya know, I'd TOTALLY do that as scum. Like, absofuckinglutely.

(Multiball is a thing, so I shouldn't get too much credit, but fuck you and your blinders with regards to me, you don't even MENTION that as significant because you're too busy trying to squirrel away every bit of town credit you can for the tn shot)

[Cerberus v666]

Titus, he can't give people desperadoes to people. Check my iso. I asked the mod a number of questions and I assure you he can not give guns wirh any restrictions other than number of shot.

[Cerberus v666]

Titus, he can't give people desperadoes to people. Check my iso. I asked the mod a number of questions and I assure you he can not give guns wirh any restrictions other than number of shot.

[Cerberus v666]

Valid points re: Elbirn.

Titus, you don't have to believe me, I've done my job, so when you get sharky shot tomorrow because you refused to actually believe the person who got the gun (yeah, remember, Errant said it was a multishot regular vig shot) and the one person in this game who would go asking the mod a shitload of theoretical questions to see how he would handle claimed roles if they actually existed in the game and sent certain actions to him, then it's all on you for being stubborn.

Pedit: it's super weak EAP. I disliked the inconsistency he displayed with regards to EP, and he pushed EP to shoot sharky over TN. That's about it from me. RP had his own reasons apparently.

[Cerberus v666]

Roleplay: I'm not saying what sharky said isn't true. I'm saying the mod told me changing someone's role is bastard and the only restriction you could place on a shot is numbe of shots in response to the theoretical of whether or not someone could invent a desperado gun to someone. I asked what the default number would be if the number of shots was unspecified, and he said it would depend on the wording. Sharky said he invented a compulsive day 1 desperado gun. And gave it to EP. if you remove the restrictions the mod told me he wouldn't allow, and look at the wording....he invented a "gun" and gave it to EP, regardless of what he was trying to do. A gun, not a 1x vig shot. So the wording implies that it's unlimited. And the mods communication implies that it would be unrestricted.

And yes, that could reasonably happen without the mod being bastard or Sharky lying, since sharky just asked "can I do x", not if I did x, and they did y, what would happen? How about z?.

Pedit: I didn't tell you to go fish about Klingon, I don't care about klingon. I told you to look for the post which I just expanded upon above.

[Cerberus v666]

Really? The mod saying you can't change someone's role in response to a question about giving someone a desperado gun, and saying number of shots if unspecified is dependent upon wording, doesn't sound like a desperado shot can't be given?

[Cerberus v666]

Somewhere that's not kling, jeanne, diamond or muffin.

Am I no longer in your good graces? I'd think as someone you were willing to sheep you would include me in that list.



Zmuffin: I was in favor of the sharky shot until errant said he thought it was a normal vig, then I said he shouldn't friggin shoot sharky if he thinks he's town, and then he stalled tor a day, and during that time I asked if anyoNE had objected to him shooting tn, and nobody had or did, then he shot tn.

And yes, others pushed to shoot sharky at various times, BUT nobody did it as fervently at itlepip.

[Cerberus v666]

VOTE: ErrantParabola

I very much doubt that there are 2 Town Millers.

They might both be Scum, but they aren't both Town.

Really didn't like EP's ISO.

1) Do you think the game is multiball?
2) If not, do you believe the shot was a desperado shot?
3) If not, do you think EP scum would shoot his teammate?

[Cerberus v666]

The only reasonable way to handle this would be to assign alignments randomly, then create the roles based on the alignment+character chosen. Anything else is impossible to balance I'd imagine.

EP: We can win without LH if they're town.

[Cerberus v666]

Mastin could do it as scum, but I've rarely seen her catch up posts take into account anything that's happened later in the same day as wherever she's reading from.

Also, roleplay, the flavor of our choice dictated our roles abilities, but not our alignment. My abilities are....uniquely me. Very uniquely me. I don't see any reason to think things are different for anyone else.

Anyways, so, right now we're just deciding between itlepip and shiro? Is that all that's going on here?

[Cerberus v666]

Zmuffin isn't wrong. Roleplay isn't wrong either. Hmmm. I'm interested in the lack of support for wagons in general. Has anybody else noticed that? Everything is stalling at 4/5 votes.

[Cerberus v666]

Yes, yes, if I post a lot you can complain about my wall posts and say I'm posting everything, if I post examples and invite others to look through your ISO and see what you're saying I'm cherry picking. 1/10 originality, seen it lots before, not interesting.

I'm not here to convince you that you're scum, Dramonic did that when he sent you BBMolla's role PM. I'm here to convince the town to kill you.

Quickly, because

I am much more interested in talking to cerb right now

then RP's yelling over people, this again is just factually untrue. Yes obviously cherrypicking posts to make an incorrect generalization about the entire ISo is scummy and wrong, so I would complain about it. I have never commented on you walling being bad, and you saying I have is not true.

Pedit: yay angry insulting RP is here, he surely will be able to find reason and make the correct decision

Also @Titus, 3die isn't a townread right now for me, but I'm not really comfortable quicklynching him here. I will

survivalist

compromise on a shiro lynch though since that slot has done absolutely nothing this game even by Shiro standards.

You wanted to talk? What's up?

[Cerberus v666]

Titus, though RP is brushing the edges of site rules with regards to making posts meant to harass or insult others, I don't think it violates them. It may, however, easily be grounds for a force replace by dramonic, depending on what rules he had in place. I tend to skim over things about penalties for being an asshole because I try to not be an asshole.

[Cerberus v666]

@Cerb, whatever. Not engaging debate about rules.

Now, who are you interested in lynching. I don't want itepip or Shiro. Why won't you bus Elbrin?

I'm not trying to debate, I just looked at the site rules to see if suggestions of bodily harm are there because I find them distasteful and would be thrilled to see someone thrown out for saying such things, but, alas, there was no such rule to be found.

I already stated I'd prefer to lynch elbirn over you.

Now, Titus, how much if your itlepip and shiro defensiveness comes from the fact thatyou're not fond of the people who are interested in lynching them? Seriously, go look at their isos and forget that anybody else has ever talked about them and tell me why you think they're so town they can't be lynched.

[Cerberus v666]

There's nothing scummy in them thus town. Shiro is not scum unless multiball. The flipflops to lynch Shiro indicate she's town.

Now, you didn't answer my question. I didn't ask you if you thought your buddy was townier than me, I asked you why you wouldn't vote him. We're trying to get scum lynched not play favorites.

Because I'm content with where my vote is at until we hit deadline or itlepip talks to me like he said he wanted to?

*shrug*

Elbirns the only person who didn't find an excuse to unvote scum after voting him, so that's a minor point in his favor, but it's pretty meaningless.

[Cerberus v666]

cerberus.
do you think that LH is scum?
I heard you mention that LH's town utility is too great to risk it, but I don't remember if you explicitly thought LH was scum.

Dunno EP. If I thought they were scum, I would advocate lynching them regardless. The head Im very confident I can read hasn't been around.

That's an indicator of bussing.

Elbrin never had a reason to vote TN beyond RP was the first to ask him to.

Town justify moving their vote. Scum hide. Compare with Sukidoen.

I have errands to run.

That's the thing LH. Go read my iso, read the post where I point out the VCs. The justifications thar are given...aren't. There is no decent reason why any of the people who move votes made that decision. At least, none they shared.

Pedit: Omg drixx is here!

Dude don't make us waste the last 48h of the day trying to get me of all people lynched. It'll waste a buncha time and you'll just force me to be a bad employee to defend myself eventually. :p

[Cerberus v666]

I hereby lift my restriction on my hydra partner against going after Cerberus. I had previously told Titus repeatedly that he's terribad at day one and that we should look at him on day three. He's playing outside of expectations now; however, and giving off some pings of the sorts of posts he made when we got assigned scum as our RR hydra.

She's going to be so mad that she is off running errands and I said this right as she posted that, but hey ... that's life.

~Drixx

Make sure that's not an ongoing game mate? You might have just royally fucked up if you did what I think you did.

We were scum as RR in cougars den, a finished game where our team was terribad and didn't talk to us and put their necks in nooses. :p

We lost that.

[Cerberus v666]

Unfounded accusations of such behavior is just as scummy. In terms of personal character.

[Cerberus v666]

I already answered that hiplop. Keep catching up.

[Cerberus v666]

Semantics argument is stupid. Let's move on, even though Drixx is right. It's all about perceived intent, the word itself is nothing.

Wanna lynch RP? For lolz, at least a little bit.

[Cerberus v666]

I disagree. He's saying that couching those terms in a certain way leads to the perception by him that it is an insult, and asking that people be aware of that.

Anywahs, so jeanne, you think rp is 100% town?

[Cerberus v666]

my last word on topic:

you can't expect people to know your trigger words. I personally also refrain from the retard word for similar reasons but like people don't know my life story I can't expect them to know the things that set me off more than usual! I like you a lot drixx, just you can't impose your sense of justice on everyone else too

pedit: I honestly don't think RP is scum cerb, any other ideas?

Ah well. He's a huge question mark to me and has been so prone to just throwing shit everywhere that it feels like an informative lynch. :p

Seriously though, I'm already on someone I don't feel good about, but I'm shit D1 guys and tn didn't give me enough info to stop being shit. :/

[Cerberus v666]

Hmm. We're at 14 hours? Really?

[Cerberus v666]

Roleplay, stop it. Seriously. Stupid fucking joke is stupid.

Itle is like l-5

[Cerberus v666]

....I hate all of you so much.
UNVOTE:

Consider my vote on whoever has the most votes in 24h, or whoever gets to l-1. Seriously. I'm not going to bother with trying to work with people who are too busy talking about nothing at all to play the game.

[Cerberus v666]

We have 9/9 needed for a lynch right here, right now, actively talking, in a game where we're quickly approaching deadline, and you're fucking off about fucking themes.

[Cerberus v666]

I've proposed a few somethings and now I'm fucking over it.

[Cerberus v666]

That is interesting. I see you didn't care about my interest in seeing of anybody felt like lynching you. Noted.

[Cerberus v666]

Oh. Sorry. The comment about lynching was directed at RP.

[Cerberus v666]

4. Learned Hand
6. 3dicerolling
7. Elbirn
8. Mass Flop
9. DiamondSentinel
11. Davsto
12. Shiro
13. BBmolla itlepip
14. roleplay25

Pretty sure I'd be okay lynching any of those people.
Some less than others.

[Cerberus v666]

We have 9/9 needed for a lynch right here, right now, actively talking, in a game where we're quickly approaching deadline, and you're fucking off about fucking themes.

Then you can fucking vote for anyone I am not fucking townreading. I would rather no lynch than lynch itepip, Jeanne, Klingon, Shiro, errant, DS, dave, or ourselves. Pick someone who is not them.

Because I said earlier that I was going ot unvote nad I would vote whoeve rhad the most votes later on, or hammer whoever got to L-1.

[Cerberus v666]

Also, there's more than 10 hours left. Davsto's timer is countin down to 24 hours, not to day end.

[Cerberus v666]

Yeah a vc would be nice for today. :/

[Cerberus v666]

Post #1981 (isolation #28) » Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:58 am pst

Votecount 13: What is this?

itlepip (4): 3dicerolling, Cerberus v666, Jeanne11, Roleplay25
Davsto (2): Mass Flop, DiamondSentinel
DiamondSentinel (2): ErrantParabola, itlepip
Elbirn (1): Learned Hand
Learned Hand (1): Elbirn
Mass Flop (1): Davsto
roleplay25 (1): Klingoncelt
Shiro (1): zmuffinman

Not Voting: EAP, Shiro, sharky5x

It is 9 to lynch. New Deadline is in 2 days and 19 hours.

31 hours.....

[Cerberus v666]

His countdown is to 24 hours, which is when he thinks we should all vote him if we can't decide on a lynch.

[Cerberus v666]

No, we haven't. There's an interesting distinction there.

@Mod: If someone were to invent a desperado gun use to someone, as you said was possible above, and said gun use was aimed at scum, what would happen? If it were aimed at town, what would happen? If they instead invented a "desperado gun", rather than a "desperado gun use", what would the occur upon usage of the gun in both those cases?

The idea of the gun being separate from the method in which the gun is used, that is, in a kill attempt governed by the desperado roles abilities, was not resolved, and that is the crux of the issue here.

@Elbirn: I'm very surprised that it took that long for someone to notice that, and sad that I only got two answers, one from dead scum.

I did not know Sharky's role or ability, and my question wasn't a reference to his role or ability. Note, he did not specify that his power did not include killing abilities, and he even said he himself could have made the desperado shot. I did specify non-killing. We're clearly talking about two separate things.

That's...really all there is to say. itlepips appraisal of my post as "curious scum trying to define the power limits of town" is almost accurate, except it's, ya know, "curious town wondering what the hell people could come up with so he can have some basis for the kind of speccing he likes to do." Curious scum wouldn't need to ask a question like that, they'd have knowledge of multiple roles and team size to base all setup spec on.

[Cerberus v666]

And yes, pre-emptive defense, blah blah blah, because you have what appears to be a scum slip. Got it. Noted.

[Cerberus v666]

I mean, I guess the point, dramonic, is we want to know...to just stop beating around the bush.

Can a Lucid Dreamer invent a killing ability to someone which functions under the same conditions as those imposed by the desperado role, where the shooter dies when they target town, and the target dies when they target scum? If so, what phrasing would they need to use to invent such an ability to someone?

There. If Dramonic is willing to answer that, we have a simple resolution, and we can check it vs what sharky said he said.

[Cerberus v666]

I highly doubt Errant's gun is actually a Desperado gun and that he lied about it and claimed it was a vigilante (and through lying he is thus scum).

Why?

Quite simply, if that were true, why the hell would he mention having more than one shot? Holding a Desperado gun as scum is a lose-lose situation unless you can hit a 3rd party player. If he were scum with a desperado shot, he'd have just kept the knowledge that it had multiple shots hidden, because he would be talked into using them and that would fuck him up.

Thus, logic dictates that errantparabola's gun is a vigilante shot rather than desperado, regardless of his alignment. Sharky lying? Sharky not communicating well enough? Mod being a naughty person? I don't really care.
If this is not enough, presuming we get a lynch today that isn't me, then shooting me tomorrow will determine this.

(expired on 2016-01-09 17:20:00) is the deadline for those of you who like countdowns (liek me).

Again, when that hits 24 hours remaining, I duly expect all votes to move to me unless another lynch is imminent.

Valid points are valid.

[Cerberus v666]

It's his fault for giving out roles that require knowledge of how he would interpret things in order to judge the results of those roles claimed actions. The insults and such are just terrible, but I have little sympathy about being asked questions. ^^

[Cerberus v666]

I think that pretty firmly confirms that errant has a normal vig. Sharky would have had to MAKE errant a desperado, which he did not say he did.

[Cerberus v666]

Votecount 14: This is not cool.

Elbirn (3): Jeanne11, Learned Hand, itlepip
Shiro (2): zmuffinman, EAP
itlepip (2): Roleplay25, 3dicerolling
Davsto (2): DiamondSentinel, Davsto
DiamondSentinel (1): ErrantParabola
Learned Hand (1): Elbirn
ErrantParabola (1): Klingoncelt

Not Voting: Cerberus v666, Shiro, sharky5x, mass flop

It is 9 to lynch.

New Deadline is in 2 days

Come talk to me people.

KC, Errant is not happening today. Be a good IC and give us some thoughts that don't include killing the person who shot scum with a vig shot. Unless you're on V/LA still, I haven't checked, in which case, get better k?

DS, same thing with Davsto. It's not happening today. Look elsewhere.

EP, DS is theoretically possible, but improbable. What push against him there was seems to have disappeared, I find it unlikely you'll get the support for that.

Elbirn, that might happen. I feel like a lot of people wouldn't mind seeing the slot go, but don't want to hurt town too much if we're wrong, since both those players are strong throughout, and only get stronger as the game goes on. I'm lazy and at work. I know you're saying they're lying, but spell out where and how this is happening. I find it improbable that they'd outright lie as either alignment, but especially unlikely as scum talking about someone elses day play, where it's easily disproven.

Shiro: 'sup yo, where do you want to vote? Who do you *refuse* to lynch, and who do you want to lynch?

Sharky: AWOL, but same to you.

Mass Flop: Same to you.

EAP: That's a pure sheep vote on Zmuff?

Zmuff: Miller counterclaim and lack of content? Other reasons the top of my head is missing?

RP: What other reasons do you have besides the weak ass ones I provided?

3dice: You were voting here before me. Why? I have no recollection of your reason at all.

Jeanne: Do you just not care? Did you have any reason for this beyond fuck it, let's end the day?

LH: Can you, succinctly, restate your case vs Elbirn? Let's say, in a post that doesn't address anything else in the game? i think you went through his ISO at some point right, and outlined what he did. What scum motivation did you see for the series of plays you saw there?(I barely remember what you said in that post)


itlepip: Why are you voting here again? Survivalism? Do you have an actual reason?

[Cerberus v666]

LH: The response to your question and to mine do not give the same impression. The response to your question indicates that a desperado shot could be given. Mine indicates that it could only occur *if* someones role were changed as part of the process of giving the killing ability to the target.

I very much doubt Sharky specified that he wanted to change Errants role, and if he did, i doubt dramonic would allow it, given that he told me that role changing was bastard.

[Cerberus v666]

And, Errant shooting sharky just kills sharky. That's it. If Sharky is scum, there's no resolution to this discussion(which is almost fruitless, except it's very important in determining Errants likely alignment in a non-multiball game.) If sharky is town, issue resolved.

[Cerberus v666]

But why do you think he's scum?

[Cerberus v666]

Ah, finally. Glorious, glorious conversation.

Elbirn, I'm willing to give them a pass on D1. I'm not willing to give them a pass beyond that. That's all I'm really saying. I don't mind lynching them at some point, but I feel it's terribad to lynch good players on D1 without very strong evidence that they're scum. Also, have you seen Jeanne scum Elbirn? I know I haven't, and given that and the fact that her town play is hilariously anti-town, I don't see why this couldn't be scum jeanne. If you've seen scum jeanne though, please let me know if what LH is saying is true, and this play is closer to her play in Suikoden rather than her scum play.


RP: Hmm. Alright, given you see that the vote makes sense, but I'll need to iso to see if I agree with your interpretation of events.

LH: Same with you. Also, Titus, you are NOT an easy mislynch. You are a pain in the fucking ass to lynch period. Just because people are willing to slog through thousands of posts duking it out with you to get you lynched, doens't mean it's "easy" to do so.

Jeanne: Who is your other scumread Jeanne? Me? The phrasing you used implies that it's me, but it isn't precise so you could be talking about someone else. And, this isn't about moving your vote from your scumreads, it's about killing the vanity wagons and finding the one that has a shot of actually happening.

[Cerberus v666]

I won't move from my only other scumread just because you disagree with it.

p-edit: I think he's scum because, well, his pushes were the players who were already pushed prior to his posts. Also, there is his doubt about how I know I and Sharky were investigative. The answer is, there's no 'and', there is 'or'. I knew one of us is an investigative because that's me. And I was right. Losing either of us is a disadvantage to town.

What did you mean by the bolded then? You're already voting Elbirn. How can he be the other you're referring to?

Also, syntactically, saying "lynching a or b loses town an investigative " means you are saying doing EITHER a or b leads to losing an investigative. If you wanted to say what you claim you meant, you should have said if you lynch a AND b. That is the only way that doesn't seem to mean you have knowledge of sharky's role.

[Cerberus v666]

Like, imagine sharky was vt, and we lynched him. What you said would have been incorrect, because we lynched one of the two listed, and we did not lynch an investigative.

[Cerberus v666]

I must say, Elbirn's response is looking pretty sexy right now. I want to see what he has to say about that last LH post though.

[Cerberus v666]

I know what you intended, I'm telling you why it was misleading. The statement you made was untrue. If you break down a sentence with or, logically, this is what happens

IF A or B, C

in this situation, LOGICALLY, let's break down the scenario

A and B occur: C occurs
A occurs, B doesn't occur: C occcurs
A doesn't occur, B occurs: C doesn't occur
A doesn't occur, B doesn't occur: C doesn't occur.

When you use or like that, you state that in 3/4 scenarios, C will occur. In this case, you were stating that only in the situation in which neither sharky or yourself are lynched, does not not lose an investigative. You can only make that statement and be correct when you know sharky is also an investigative.

That's the problem people have with it.

After thinking about it, i don't believe there actually is a way to include Sharky in that sentence and be accurate, without existing knowledge of his role. i was going to try to help you communicate it clearly next time, without the misunderstanding, but I really don't know how you would.

pedit: Yay another Drixx post!

[Cerberus v666]

Oped, ebwop:
A and B occur: C occurs
A occurs, B doesn't occur: C occcurs
A doesn't occur, B occurs: C occurs
A doesn't occur, B doesn't occur: C doesn't occur.

[Cerberus v666]

How is that post you quoted from Elbirn any different from Titus' claim that sharky should be shot tomorrow? Or was titus just saying that sharky should have been shot today, because she's always right and her plan is the best one?

[Cerberus v666]

RP, seriously, stop it with the name calling. It's unnecessary. You were already warned by the mod. i don't want the result of this game to be marred by someone getting themselves modkilled.

Drixx: that post was terrible. So bad. Why are you even telling us this right now? Why is it relevant? Why are you working so hard to diminish pressure before any pressure exists? Hell, your slots even ASKED for a 1v1, when you could have just laid low. it doesn't make sense to follow that up with a fucking wall of "keep away from us because we are good for town and we will totally claim soon". You know what happens when you do that? You tell us that you are no longer interested in a 1v1, and now you just want to get the hell out of the middle of things.

Also, I wasn't talking about grammar Drixx! I was talking about how it's very easy to look at that sentence (notice my EBWOP, because I typoed!) in terms of logical syntax, and see a clear claim that both sharky and jeanne are investigatives.

pedit: RP, that's not true. Drixx is quite content claiming vague but useful and deliberately trying to draw NK's to himself, or to do so to WIFOM scum.

[Cerberus v666]

Man, why does everyone misunderstand me? I COMPULSIVELY correct people. It got Drixx and I fucking killed in Trouble in the Cougars Den, most likely. I can't just let things past, EVEN if I agree or am leaning towards agreeing with the conclusions drawn.

RP, just because I'm telling you that Drixx is capable of making a play that contradicts your reasoning DOES NOT MEAN I THINK YOU'RE WRONG.

Got it? Okay.

pedit: The post about the quote was directed at LH. They accuse Elbirn of planning deaths, while Titus has been doing the same, just with a different target in mind. Elbirns death planning is even the same fucking thing the actual slot he's suggested be shot has been suggesting itself.

[Cerberus v666]

Please don't question Drixx's integrity. There is absolutely no chance that man would ever use his illness as a weapon. EVER.

There is nothing I am more sure of.

The rest of it, maybe, idk. I wouldn't call either of them a bully, but they can be forceful.

Let's just get back to the actual productive discussion that's happening here, not the character attacking that isn't nearly as game relevant as RP wants to think it is.

[Cerberus v666]

Yeah, man, you can't say Titus didn't know you were gonna do that. Like, there is no chance you didn't at least run it by her as in "I wanna do this, cool?" And wait for her to say "Cool."

But, RP, your vitriol is misdirected. Just because they are hydraing doesn't mean Drixx knows why Titus agreed with his suggestion/made the suggestion.

Also, I haven't read the early game posts Drixx, because work. Just quote them to me if you want me to bother with it.

Also, stop calling eachother liars.

RP is calling you a liar, LH, because he believes you are scum, and thus your whole post about being useful to the town etc. is a lie. Even if you could be useful to the town, that wouldn't be your intention, as scum.

Drixx is calling RP a liar because RP believes firmly that both heads of a hydra should be completely aware of what the other is doing and why, so he's calling you out on a contradiction that you dont' believe exists, but to him, it does. Alrighty, there we go, resolved, stop being asses.

Oh, and Drixx: The problem with giving you the benefit of the doubt is I don't know how deep that rabbit hole goes. Are you making x play because you would never do it as scum? Are you *not* doing it for the same reason? Are you not doin it because you believe I think yo uwould never do it? Like...it's difficult, so I'm not going to go that deep. Show me the posts you think will somehow make everything make sense.

[Cerberus v666]

Drixx, please convince me that itlepip isn't scum, because Titus is convinced he isn't.

Thanks.

[Cerberus v666]

Why did you say hey cerberus?

[Cerberus v666]

Rp, stop. He won't answer you, you're not worth wasting time on. At least, that's how I'd expect him to react to this whole thing you're doing.

Answer me Drixx, ignore RP: why is itle so town titus refuses to consider him?

Pedit: rp, you are distracting town. Shaddup.

Errant: I'm also phone posting and busy at work , it's just I'm being a bad employee right now. :p

[Cerberus v666]

The diamond waa a counterwagon to tn thing makes sense with regards to that, itle, though diamond did bring it in himself with his woe is me it gonna just become a useless slot in protest against RP crap he said.

And yes, itle, I know everything about you is easy to refute. That's why I'm so confused that LH hasn't done so yet.

[Cerberus v666]

Drixx, you're gonna die today without responding to him. Serio.

Also, my case doesn't matter. All that matters is titus firmly believe that itle shouldn't be lynched today. The case is weak as fuck,and I expected it to get holes poked through it...but the weakness of the case doesn't explain the certain townread exhibited by the other head in your slot..

Also, Drixx, you know I love answering posts for other people. It's just something I do. Don't act surprised that I'm doing it. Man, you and Titus both keep trying to chide me for behaviors you should be well aware are normal for me.

[Cerberus v666]

it seems that half of the players are posting with the explicit aim to rile each other up, and for a start that's scummy (since senseless noise and arguments rather than actual scumhunting is what scum thrives off), and it also makes the game unfun because people don't want to get involved in a shitstorm, and would thus rather just stand back and avoid it.

Scum thrives on this kind of schism and argument. Stop it and work together.

still relevant.

it seems that half of the players are posting with the explicit aim to rile each other up, and for a start that's scummy (since senseless noise and arguments rather than actual scumhunting is what scum thrives off), and it also makes the game unfun because people don't want to get involved in a shitstorm, and would thus rather just stand back and avoid it.

Scum thrives on this kind of schism and argument. Stop it and work together.

still relevant.

Tis sad : (

*nods*

[Cerberus v666]

Seriously titus? That's all you've got? Itlepip is town because *reasons*.

....

RP: stop it or we will fucking hang you instead. The one who is signing is Drixx. The one who isn't is Titus. Drixx is the one who said he hasn't read any cases. Titus has been following the game and dI'd read the cases.

There is more than enough material in this game to think you're scum rather than them. Stop deliberately misunderstanding who you're speaking to just do you can keep painting them as inconsistent and nonsensical.

[Cerberus v666]

itlepip, you're off the table.

We kill one of LH or RP now. You're both being ridiculous and deliberately misunderstanding each other and evading shit all over the place, in addition to, in the case of RP, fucking throwing shit against the wall to see what sticks.

One of these two dies today. Good job making me take a stance.

[Cerberus v666]

Drixx, you didn't ask for it, but Titus did when she just showed up and didn't address the thing RP has been screaming about for the last 2 pages.
Pedit: right now you're losing Titus.

[Cerberus v666]

Multiple and at least one are not dissimilar enough to scream contradiction.

It's pretty clear that they deliberately phrased things in the fashion meant to give the least information possible.

However, your claim doesn't do shit to make you town, LH. That's information you can easily have by having a godfather on your team and a role that somehow relates to millers.

[Cerberus v666]

Titus: when you say multiple millers and godfathers, do you mean there are at least 2 of each, or there is at least 2 roles which have EITHER of those modifiers.

[Cerberus v666]

Also, hi Shiro. Welcome to the game. How about you answer the question you keep asking everyone else.

[Cerberus v666]

Like I said ... we played things close to the vest early. The first move we made wasn't even limited to the information we have. When trying to trap scum, you don't draw scum a map for how to avoid your trap. I'm sure most people understand that the words "at least" do in fact match up with "multiple". The whole point of our early questioning with the information we had was to get people to commit.

Titus: when you say multiple millers and godfathers, do you mean there are at least 2 of each, or there is at least 2 roles which have EITHER of those modifiers.

The latter.

I gotta go.

Be back later. Lynch me or not. I don't care. Just after we flip follow us.

~Titus

Man like, I know everyone knows I think they're scum.

But I think I'd type multiple millers OR godfathers if I meant what Titus said.

And lets say I made that typo. I wouldn't immediately spout this stuff about "playing close to the vest early". I'd say "I meant or, not and".

Dumb semantic argument is dumb. What Titus said was perfectly acceptable for communicating their point.

I really don't want to have to deal with isoing you RP. It basically hinges on your stance on TN and the sharky thing and the errant shot. If you were even the slightest bit shady in that, it's you over them. So, if you have any evidence you'd like to provide indicating that

1)You wanted the desperado shot to go to tn.
2) Once it went to EP, you wanted it used on tn.
3) You wanted tn lynched earlier in the game

Then, well, that would go a long way to making life easy for me.

[Cerberus v666]

Shiro, you misunderstood. My post above is indicating I want RP to show me where he did those things, so I don't have to comb his iso. , not me saying that he has done those things.

[Cerberus v666]

RP moved to DS when he made his dumb omg I suck just kill me post, then to KC in response to the Judas etc. comments about Ds, then to sharky...after Jeanne naked voted him? So basically for no reason?

That's what happened with his tn vote. Like that's not exactly a push.

[Cerberus v666]

RP: The semantic argument isn't about whether or not they could have/should have shared more information with the town. I've established firmly that they shared exactly as much as it seems they intended to share. Their phrasing means they did not lie or mislead the town, they simply didn't add the additional information they clearly meant to keep uncertain. Because *you* would have phrased it different does not change the fact that what they said easily encompassed the situation regarding the millers.

The point of all that is I'm at work, I can't go iso you until I get home, we're on a deadline, and it would simply help us resolve things faster so if I feel it's likely you're town we can move on to LH. I am fairly lazy, but I really want one of the two of you dead, and I want to make sure I'm not being irrational in that desire. I don't desire for you to show me that you're town. I asked three questions, and I was wondering if you could demonstrate you had done those things.

[Cerberus v666]

4. Learned Hand
6. 3dicerolling
7. Elbirn
8. Mass Flop
9. DiamondSentinel
11. Davsto
12. Shiro
13. BBmolla itlepip
14. roleplay25

Pretty sure I'd be okay lynching any of those people.
Some less than others.

My lis hasn't changed. Well, I guess davsto is a bad lynch, but I don't object to the rest of the lynches. As I said earlier, the information LH has could come from having a godfather on their team, and an ability related to millers(note they expressly say they know theres multiples milers/godfathers, not multiples of each. That's all you need for what they've claimed. It's not alignment indicative at all. Anyways, done watching Parasyte now! So, umm, I might get around to isoing RP as planned.

I'm not sure why drixx's unasked for claim under no pressure coupled with a whatever post in the early game is actually making people townread them now though. After all this Titus still hasn't actually given a reason (singular) why she believes itlepip is town. :/ that bothers me..

[Cerberus v666]

VOTE: Mass Flop

Let's call some people on bullshit.

@cerb, no one has given a reason why he's scum (I know rp claims he did) and his wagon composition is pushed by the same people who tried to mislynch every other townie.

I gave an example of behavior I found scummy on his part, in the post where i voted for him. And stop throwing around assumption Titus. You are correct in that there is a small pool of people who have actually been moving their vote around today, and thus they've been the drive behind everything, but that's because NOBODY ELSE HAS BEEN HERE. Other people have just been popping in and saying nothing significant, and not giving anyone any reason for any actions.

Hell, the pool you're concerned about is the same set of people who were voting elbirn at your insistence!

Stop with the double standards.

[Cerberus v666]

And yes, of course titus. Scum would absolutely just shove itlepips lynch down the towns throat in a super obvious fashion rather than just letting us screw around and no lynch today at no risk to themselves.

Totally. /s

[Cerberus v666]

Alrighty, so I looked through tn's iso fully now.

He wanted Jeanne, RP, and sharky lynched, in that order.

He claimed he would have shot one of zmuffin or Jeanne had he received the shot.

Also threw some shade on 3dice.

Town leaned diamond.

LH asked him specifically what his thoughts were on the millers, and he found it likely.


Hmm. IIoA, but it's here for me to consider.

pedit: Please, I'm terrible D1, and I admit it's a shitty ass case(repeatedly, btw) which I expected to get crushed. Instead it got sheeped. So yeah. That was unexpected. Also, pushing a sharky shot is terrible when the person with the shot has told us himself that it's a vig shot. Sharky, regardless of alignment, is an asset to town, at least in the short term, that shouldn't have just been killed off.

peditx2: Yeah, it's a shitty conclusion to draw, but whatever. I've used the same logic against her when she's acted outside expectations and in a way that was suboptimal.

[Cerberus v666]

And yes, of course titus. Scum would absolutely just shove itlepips lynch down the towns throat in a super obvious fashion rather than just letting us screw around and no lynch today at no risk to themselves.

Totally. /s

You not getting a lynch off is a huge risk given my townblock here. I just have to get them to agree.

Now I am going to pour through your ISO looking for a reason.

Wake up and push a scumread not someone you don't like Cerb.

I don't think there is a single person here who i dislike. Stop disparaging my opinions and attempting to insinuate that there is no thought behind those I'm willing to lynch.

pedit: LH: sure, that's possible, but I have more respect for my oppositiion than to think that's actually what's going on here. Also, paralyzed by fear? Expand on that please. I'm intrigued.

[Cerberus v666]

Meh. Just reading the very beginning of RP's iso makes me not want to lynch him. As you said, Shiro, lots of attempting to ge tpeople to vote TN from super early on, like he just kept on and on about it. Fine.

[Cerberus v666]

I think you have balls for admitting to lurking this early, so yes, I'm town-lean on you, Diamond.

@cerb, I would stop disparaging if I could see the thought. In Sudikoen you hardly pushed. In Stevens Universe, same deal. Here, again. You state you're terrible D1 but had suspicions on me.

In Sudoken, you were an obstacle in town's way until you woke up and saw the townblock. You didn't push anything despite multiple requests to do do.

Inorganic Chemistry, same pattern.

To me, it appears you're too busy wanting to be right when you swing. By then, you don't show everyone your alignment. By showing us, even your wrong thoughts, it makes you trackable.

If I can't track you, I want to lynch you.

People spend time talking about what is important to them. You'll see in my ISO i focus on defending town just as hard if not harder than lynching scum d1. Why? Because town wins if we see each other. Your I am terrible D1 is a self fulfilling prophecy.

Take a shot. Who out of my lynchable pool is scum? Go after them. Hard.

Oh man that's hilarious. i forgot I had asked you some time ago if part of the reason why you thought I was scum was because I don't vote and it makes me difficult for your VCA to handle...so, though that thought wasn't correct, there was some merit to my thought that you'd rather remove me than have to deal with a slot you have *always* read wrong.

Anyways, your lynchable pool means nothing to me, and well, I was planning on going after RP, but shit, just like 30 posts in and he's already voting TN and badgering people to vote TN and just generally displaying a desire to kill flipped scum. That makes me not want to deal with seeing if there's any other ammo in there. :-/

ISO'ing mass flop right now though. It's disappointing. As in, their performance is disappointing. As in, it's not very town...

pedit: I've only ever seen you be right once Titus. In multiple games. Suikoden. There's a reason why I'm reluctant to follow your lead, beyond alignment uncertainty. You're like, always wrong, but when you're right, you're super right. *shrug*

[Cerberus v666]

Hmm. Mass flops push on davsto is nonsensical for scum. :-/ Bah. So many things that don't make sense and counteract all the suspicious behavior I see. :-/

[Cerberus v666]

Hmm. Mass flops push on davsto is nonsensical for scum. :-/ Bah. So many things that don't make sense and counteract all the suspicious behavior I see. :-/

Then tell us what doesn't make sense. Let me in that head of yours. Why doesn't it make sense? Doing this helps me read you.

Hmm. Mass flops push on davsto is nonsensical for scum. :-/ Bah. So many things that don't make sense and counteract all the suspicious behavior I see. :-/

[Cerberus v666]

Also...you know I don't care about helping you read me. I actively like being scumread/unread.

Anyways, so a trip down itlepips iso( a lazy trip) reminded me that he was also riling up jeanne, and he defended TN/questioned tn's wagon, in addition to pushing that sharky be shot. Hmm.

[Cerberus v666]

Look at the previous post? I answered your question.

Eh, it's only antitown as fuck if you don't know you're a much stronger asset to the town if you live till later days, regardless of role. That's why I do it. ^^

[Cerberus v666]

Anyways, discussions about why I play as I do are best left to early in a day phase. If you and I live through the lynch and the night, we can take up the discussion in the morning.

Pedit: That's not what I said. I said I'm deliberately making of myself a perceived mislynch of the future, so that way I can avoid having nks targeted at me, duh

[Cerberus v666]

Hey Elbirn, why did you never respond to me answering you about why I asked that question early game?

[Cerberus v666]

[
Ah yes, that too, the jeanne push post tn flip is also weird. Yeah, I'm still okay with itlepip after going through his iso and finding nothing I like (though your case is still shit RP)

VOTE: Itlepip

[Cerberus v666]

Going to sleep now. Seriously just figure it out guys.

[Cerberus v666]

My original case was bad. I found further evidence of actions I could see scum taking, which restored my faith in that particular lynch. Look at my posts.

[Cerberus v666]

Also...you know I don't care about helping you read me. I actively like being scumread/unread.

Anyways, so a trip down itlepips iso( a lazy trip) reminded me that he was also riling up jeanne, and he defended TN/questioned tn's wagon, in addition to pushing that sharky be shot. Hmm.

[Cerberus v666]

@LH

What about 3dice vote on you? I found that to be pretty bad seeing as he said he was townreading you, then went

Let's do this

*votes *

Where was this?

[Cerberus v666]

Pushing jeanne is riling her, you know that. He was a lot more subtle, that's all. Were which reasons bad LH?

[Cerberus v666]

Nope she's not. But she was being super provoked by tn. Coulda been an act, but I find that unlikely.

[Cerberus v666]

Elbirn. Please respond regarding your question from before the lock happened.

[Cerberus v666]

Really going to sleep. Hope to see an elbirn answer and an itlepip flip or some awesome itlepip defense.

[Cerberus v666]

Naw, it's more like I REALLY wanted to get RP lynched for numerous scummy things I've noticed through the game, then once I read his iso I realized he had done a buncha not scummy stuff too, which balanced it all out, so I was left with just LH, who...well...was seeming more and more likely to be a vanity wagin.

I never stated anything about the timing of anything you did. I don't know why you seem to think I have a mistake in my timeline. The person who pushed jeanne after the tn flip was mass flop, and doing so gave them town credit,rather than the opposite.

[Cerberus v666]

LH
Mass flop
Itlepip

There's my lynch pool pick one idgaf

VOTE: Massflop

Choo choo mother lovers, let's make this happen.

Pip is in your pool and is more likely to be lynched based in current votes at least, why are you supporting a counterwagon on someone else?

[Cerberus v666]

Fucking

I don't know I just want death

I long to bathe in the blood of my enemies

Massflop is still a scumshit

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Itlepip

Shit like that makes me want to kill you.

It's like you're going "oh yeah, fuck it, I don't even need to think about why i want to vote anyone or maintain any coherent thoughts because I'm scum and my entire lynch pool is town so yolo who gives a fuck which one we lynch"

That's what I got out of your last two posts. :-/

[Cerberus v666]

Naw, it's more like I REALLY wanted to get RP lynched for numerous scummy things I've noticed through the game, then once I read his iso I realized he had done a buncha not scummy stuff too, which balanced it all out, so I was left with just LH, who...well...was seeming more and more likely to be a vanity wagin.

I never stated anything about the timing of anything you did. I don't know why you seem to think I have a mistake in my timeline. The person who pushed jeanne after the tn flip was mass flop, and doing so gave them town credit,rather than the opposite.

Why was pushing Jeanne scummy? Were there any issues with the Sharky logic? The TN point looks bad sure but when your top scumread votes for someone just for pushing them yeah you are going to point out how awful that vote was. The alternative, letting the vote slide, would have been even more scummy since the only reason for ignoring the vote is because scum me would not want to look aligned with TN.

Pushing Jeanne isn't generally scummy, but given that known scum was pushing her and inspiring her to flood the thread with noise in defense of herself, I see no reason why other members of the scum team could see that her style makes it easy to use her to assist in hiding. It's very easy to hide when Jeanne is flooding the thread and making the rest of the game want to policy lynch her whihc just makes her flood the thread more to defend herself etc. etc. Vicous cycle, blah blah.

The problem with the Sharky logic is that it offers up what is likely our strongest asset as a means of testing him. All it took was a simple mistake on his part in his "dreaming" and we have dead town with an OP power. Even if he wasn't town, he was leashed, controlled, would die if he ever did anything other than what we asked, and we could easily ensure that every action we asked him to take would be in the form of an invention he would give to someone else to use.

I don't know the timeline relative to your push to get sharky shot, sorry, you may have been pushing him at the time I was, before I started to feel like it might actually be a regular vig rather than a desperado. However, regardless of when you were pushing him, the logic everyone was using was shortsighted. If sharky is town, I don't think scum can afford to leave him alive, and it's foolish to make that kill for them. If he's scum, getting rid of leashed him now is still a bad idea, and I'm sure we can confirm whether he's town or scum pretty quickly in a role madness game.

Also, how was Jeanne your top scumread? This is a chronology thing again, but I know you voted me halfway through your catchup, then read a bunch more and decided RP was actually scummier. I know Jeanne was a concern for you the whole time, since you were, as you said "feeling a jeanne and cerb world(which, btw, is a thing that should have been at least partially assuaged by the assertion that we were neighbors and thus easily giving off a false positive in our interactions given we *did* have a connection with one another), but I'm not sure when or how Jeanne rose above RP to become your top scumread and thus worthy of autodefending someone else who was voting her for shit reasons.

pedit: pushing you because you're town doesn't make him scummy jeanne. P

[Cerberus v666]

Dunno. Someone should count. 4-6, somewhere in that range.

[Cerberus v666]

Itlepip is at 5, , not 4, by my count.

Jeanne: not the time. Are you voting itle? What are your thoughts on him?

[Cerberus v666]

I believe that is L-2. Unless I miscounted and dav is right, then it's l-3.

[Cerberus v666]

Votecount 16: 24 hours

itlepip (6): Roleplay25, Cerberus v666, Shiro, Elbirn, 3dicerolling, Jeanne11
roleplay25 (2): itlepip, klingoncelt
Learned Hand (2): ErrantParabola, Mass Flop
Shiro (2): zmuffinman, EAP
Davsto (1): DiamondSentinel
mass flop (1): Learned Hand

Not Voting: sharky5x, Davsto

It is 9 to lynch. Deadline is in 24 hours

EP, MF: if you're willing to vote LH, the eternal defender of itlepip without giving any reasons why he's town, but insists on only addressing why things he's done aren't actually scummy, I don't see why you wouldn't be willing to vote itlepip. Reasons?

Zmuffin, EAP: get in the fucking game, what the hell are you guys doing, you haven't done anything since yesterday's argument with RP.

DS: what did I tell you about vanity wagons and davsto being a terrible lynch? Stop it.

[Cerberus v666]

VC doesn't say that. I'm pretty sure I counted you as voting itle, it was at the end of a longer post, at the bottom of a page. Easily missed, maybe that's why davsto missed it too?

@mod: VC correct?

Actually, hell EP, no reason to just re vote him just in case if thats where you meant for your vote to be..

[Cerberus v666]

@Jeanne, I get that. Can you stop voting obvtown and vote anyone else ty?

@Cerb, The reasons you profess are shit and itepip bleeds town are reasons. This head will not vote him.

That's fine, I didn't ask you to vote because I don't need your vote. Bleeds obvtown isn't a fact, it's an opinion. Give me facts. Find me somethung in his iso that makes no sense for scum to do.

[Cerberus v666]

Itlepip, reads to share?