Fritz's Fav Fictional Figures Faction Fest - Game over

[YagamiLight]

What a crazy imagination... Lets do as it says d28 = 2013525295 If it lands on someone dead, then no random vote from me, if it lands on me then guess what? I vote myself.

[YagamiLight]

Nevermind, the dead were removed, lukily there are 25 people, so

Vote KaleiÐoscøpe

[YagamiLight]

Vote: JordanA24

I'm not sure about my sanity, though.

jk mate.

What a crazy imagination... Lets do as it says d28 = 2013525295 = Fixed

If it lands on someone dead, then no random vote from me, if it lands on me then guess what? I vote myself.

What's the point in that? Random voting gets the game started, so why include the dead, and say if it lands on them, you won't bother, and if it lands on you, you'll random vote yourself, which is pointless. Why bother?

Vote: YagamiLight

Well, I was too lazy to bother thinking about who waas out at the time, and what number everyone else was. Also, what's the point of random voting if the random doesn't mean possibly you?

[YagamiLight]

Okay, a little late, but I'm here now... but, there was probably no one who missed me

But anyhow, having played the KOTOR games, and read what's happened, I do believe his claim. Also, I wouldn't expect him to be a vig or SK, because he doesn't choose who dies, he always kills his master. Also, I don't really get everyone jumping on Sarc, seems as though it was all ust because of him being in the op[ening day 2 post.

All in all, I'm going to reread day 1, though I don't think much will come from it, and reread day 2, and see who I think is scummy.

[YagamiLight]

I never said anything about who is master is, how did you get that from my post? Anyways, it seems like the whole town would be his master if he has to follow the wagons, also, if he cannot kill "by accident" then he would go against that programing and boom.

[YagamiLight]

I agree with Theo. Blight, Theo at least gives a small reason for his vote, where as the others just jump on without showing any reasons. Seems to me that you should be more suspicious of them.

I disagree, however, with Theo about Ceph's reaction. I see nothing scummy about it, what I see is him believing the reason given is null. I disbelieve that it is null, but I do believe that it is not enough of a tell to lynch anyone for.

[YagamiLight]

Sarc, that is role fishing, there is no need to claim with only three votes, no matter how sure you are he is scum.

Unvote Vote Sarcastro

[YagamiLight]

Sarc and everyone, I see this as a scum tell, not null, because there is no reason for town to ask someone to claim who is not close to a lynch. All it could possibly do so soon is give scum a power role to NK. To me it seems that claiming should not be done, except as the last possible thing to prevent a power role's lynch.

[YagamiLight]

If you read my post there is a reason for scum to do so, it could give them a power role to remove from the game.

[YagamiLight]

Why don't you tell me why you asked him to claim? He was the one you were voting for, what would you think if I were voting him, and turned around and asked you to claim? Of course your going to ask who you claimed. And why don't you ask yourself why you asked him to claim without enough votes. None of us know exactly what you were thinking, we can just use educated guesses, and tak what you say, both have a chance of being entirely wrong as scum lie, and like I said we don't know what you were thinking. Thats my argument against you right now anyways, that you asked him to claim with so few votes.

[YagamiLight]

Sarc, you completely misunderstood my last post, though rereading it I don't see it possible for it to be understood correctly. I have no idea how to word what I was trying to say, but I am going to try and word it better.
For my first point, I was saying of course your going to choose him to ask. It would have made no sense for you to be voting him, and then turn around and ask me to claim.
My second point was that you asked me why you did what I see as a scum tell in the first place. In which my point is that I see no pro-town reason to do so, only scummy. Also that, in this game, you only

truly

know a few things, and you have to use these to find the scum. I went on with this point to say try and say that there is no way to really know for sure what a player was thinking when he does something scummy, while he lives. Should you lynch him and he comes up scum, it is most likely the reasons stated by the town, and if he comes up town, they were probably the reasons he stated.

@ibaesha: I;m sorry, I'm horribly bad at sarcasm and always have been, I'll just let you guys know now. If it truly was sarcastic , well okay. But I have to disagree with you, as I already pointed out in this post, I only see scummy reasons to ask for the claim.

[YagamiLight]

It may catch them off guard, but I see everyone as respnding the same way, by refusing to claim. There no reason for him to claim if there is little reason.

[YagamiLight]

EBWODP
Basically, I never see that as being useful, because town wouldn't claim, and neither would scum.

[YagamiLight]

If you read my post there is a reason for scum to do so, it could give them a power role to remove from the game.

Also, I gave reason for why you chose Blight, you were currently voting him. And why would Ceph have been a better choice? He is even with Blight, and would only be at 5 (unless my counts off, I'm pretty sure he would be at 5 or 4 though) if you voted him. That's no better. And finally, nope, that last post had been talking about no one in particular, just an anonymous player

[YagamiLight]

You wouldn't wait for more people, because then it would be more productive for scum to attempt to get him lynched then to get him to claim and decide if he was worth a NK.

[YagamiLight]

What do you mean why don't people do it? It is done, scum role fish to find power roles.

[YagamiLight]

Role fishing is trying to find out someone else's role. You wanted him to claim, and thus know his role. Thus, you were role fishing.

[YagamiLight]

I'm not saying role-fishing is scummy, especially based on the definition I always thought of. It's how and when your role fish that determines if it's scummy to me. Asking for a claim so with so few votes is a scummy form of rolefishing imo, because, as I've said, I only see reason for scum to do so.

[YagamiLight]

Okay, sarc, your argument for it being a null tell is that you would act this way regardless if what side you are on right? If not, please quote your reasoning. I think we can end our little argument over this (in your favor most likely) if you do so. I'll post a whole explanation either later tonight, or tomorrow morning after I'm done.

[YagamiLight]

So, what's your reason? Because I'm fairly sure I've given my reasons for thinking it's scummy, and then noticed this.

No, actually, you haven't explained why it's scummy, whereas I think I've given a pretty persuasive argument for it being a null tell. Neither you nor Yagami have given any sort of logical reason for why, as scum, I would perpetrate this insane plan you two have dreamed up for me.

I don't see a persuasive argument (I don't see much of a reason posted to begin with). Right now it seems more like you are just saying it's a null tell, no reasons, so can I get your posted reasons? This is the reason I found, and I would like to know if you actually posted other reasons.

Why are you voting for me, Yagami? Would you like to explain why scum would be more likely to ask for a claim at three votes, for any reason either conscious or subconscious? You can't just vote for someone based on what, the fact that you think asking for a claim right now is bad play? Why would I do it as scum? What do I gain? This isn't proof that I'm not scum, obviously, but it's pretty clearly a null tell. I'm going to act like this whether I'm scum or town, so you're better off actually looking for real tells.

[YagamiLight]

Yama needs checked on... in the "Lynched" kind of way.

???
I stopped posting because I was getting tired of the argument. Sarc seemed to be doing exactly what he says Blight is doing. And the biggest thing that got to me is how Sarc seemed to want us to tell him why he did something. I tried to explain how we couldn't know exactly why and only speculate, and he says then it's not a scum tell. Sarc, it could work with the scum tells you have with Blight and Ceph. There is no way you could know why they did something, unless you read minds. You can speculate on why they would, and based on that decide if it's scummy or not.

[YagamiLight]

Sarc, I did explain why it was scummy, I gave reasoning, and you keep saying I didn't. It would give the scum a power role to NK. That combined with not seeing any reason for town to do so makes it scummy. If there is no reason for town to do so, but reason for scum, it is not a null tell. This is why I stopped arguing, your doing exactly the same as blight was.

[YagamiLight]

Sarc, there may not be high probablity of success, but there is reason why scum would do so, and none for town. Like I said when there is reason for scum and not for town, then it is not a null town, it is not a town tell, it is a scum tell.

[YagamiLight]

I'm not saying town would never ask for a claim, it could be good play, done at the right times. There is no reason for town to ask for a claim from someone with so many more needed to lynch. When someone is under heavy suspicion then yes, but Blight was not at the time. There were 3 votes on him with 11 to lynch. At -1, -2, maybe even -3 sure, but he needed 8 more votes to be lynched. Only three people.

[YagamiLight]

First Sarc, with the percentages used the way you used them, you don't need them to add up to 100, as they would actually be considered separate, so you could have 50% each.
Second, I really disagree with that setup. The way I see it, it's something like a 10% chance for town, and more around 30% for scum, with something like 5-10% possibly added depending on play style. I get what you mean about an aggresive town doing it, but I still see it far more likely to be done by scum because they have

reason

to do so, while at this point scum do not.
Third, To answer your question, just ask yourself why you did it? It comes down to the same reason you would do so, town or scum, and not expect people to question you for it.
Fourth, @Scruffs, any reasons you think I'm scum? You only mentioned me in your two recent posts.

[YagamiLight]

1. No, Yagami, they do have to add up to 100%, because I'm speaking about any time someone does what I did. So in 100 occurences (in my example), 1 would be for a town reason, 5 would be for a scum reason, and 94 would be for a non-alignment-based reason.

Okay, how ytou had it originally worded I was reading it as !% town would do this over something else, 5% scum would, ect.

2. You think that it's far more likely to be done by scum than by aggressive town because scum have a

reason

? Yes, Yagami, an incredibly insane reason. And Yagami, ask yourself how many of your actions in a game of mafia are made for a specific alignment-based reason. Don't give me bullshit about acting pro-town when you're pro-town, because any even semi-competent player will at least

try

to act pro-town (for the most part) as scum.

Of course your going to act pro-town either way. But this gets into my third agruement, so I'll refer back to this in a sec.

3. That doesn't answer the question at all,

and, in fact, doesn't even make sense.

I have a hard time even understanding what you're trying to say, but once again,

this bullshit argument

that you and Blight are trying to use about "not being able to read my mind" is a complete dodging of the question.

You have not goddamn explained why I would do it as scum.

End of fucking story. I have explained why I didn't. You apparently chose not to believe me.

But you still have to explain why I would plausibly do it as scum.

Do you seriously not get this concept, Yagami? I've explained it several times in the simplest of terms, and yet you keep repeating the same retarded bullshit argument. Sit down and

think

. You need to explain why I would plausibly do it as scum. Explain it. Don't say "it's scummy" and "ask yourself why you did it". Those are not explanations, let alone plausible ones. Answer the fucking questions. Answer them. This is not hard to understand. Seriously. Even just acknowledge that you know what I'm asking. Please. Anything. This is so goddamn frustrating right now. It's like I'm explaining something to someone with anterograde amnesia. I've said this so many times, and yet you have yet to even acknowledge that you understand what I'm asking.

Sweet zombie Jesus this is painful. This game is becoming a chore. Can we please fucking kill Blight already?

First of all, It doesn't make sense, but your going to call it the same bullshit argument about not being able to read your mind? That doesn't make sense. I don't care about the reading your mind thing here. That can be argued some other time (because I don't think it's bullshit). But, your not listening. You choose to say I'm not explaining it, that I'm giving you the same thing. I answer you respond, and later act like I never answered. ANd of course scum try and act pro-town. that gets into my answer. So, let me acknowledge what your asking.

Question:

Why would you do this plausibly as scum?

Answer:

Because you could get the role of a player, and you thought you could get away with it.
Like you said, this

is

getting ridiculous.


@Skruffs: I'm sure people would be more interested in a blank tv than my and Sarc's argument.

[YagamiLight]

I did answer all those questions, but let me answer all your questions again.

Page 17, Post 401

Question:

Why are you voting for me, Yagami?

Answer:

For asking for the claim.

Question:

Would you like to explain why scum would be more likely to ask for a claim at three votes, for any reason either conscious or subconscious?

Answer:

They are more likely because they may find a power role.

Question:

Why would I do it as scum?

Answer:

You would do so as scum because you could find the role of a player and you thought you could get away with it.

Question:

What do I gain?

Answer:

You someone's role. As scum, the powerrole's are dangerous. Cop's can find you, doc's can protect your victims, ect.

Page 17, post 422

Question:

Because I actually think Blight is going to claim?

Answer:

Yes, and if he didn't you move on with lynching him, same as if you were town.

Question:

Because I'm desperate to get a claim from Blight specifically?

Answer:

He was the person you were currently voting for. It wouldn't make sense for you to vote him then ask someone else, say me to claim.

Question:

Because I need the claim right away for my special daykilling roll?

Answer:

I don't think so, but it's possible.

Question:

Why wouldn't I just wait until a bigger bandwagon builds up on Blight or someone else?

Answer:

With a bigger bandwagon comes a bigger chance to lynch instead.

Page 17, post 424

Question:

Now please explain why I would be interested in making Blight specifically claim as soon as possible while he doesn't even have enough votes to justify a claim.

Answer:

He was the person you were currently voting for. It wouldn't make sense for you to vote him then ask someone else, say me to claim. As to why when he doesn't have enough votes, if we assume you are town, it would be for the same reason, you didn't expect people to get on you for this, or this whole argument.

Question:

And also why the best method for accomplishing this would be flat-out asking him to claim.

Answer:

It's not the best method in regards to getting away with it. Yo are more likely to get the information, but the more subtle you go the harder you'll have to look for those subtle tells.

Page 18, post 437

Question:

Why didn't I ask Cephrir to claim, Yagami?

Answer:

He was the person you were currently voting for. It wouldn't make sense for you to vote him then ask someone else, say me to claim. If my count is right, Cephrir was at 4, Blight was at 3. This gets down to why you voted Blight instead in the first place. Two people were on blight, and 5 (including yourself) were on Cephrir, but you moved to Blight saying you guess he was the lynch instead and asked him to claim. Also, Cephrir, with a higher number of votes, would be more likely to be lynched. No need for scum to gather info on the dead.

Page 18, post 440

Question:

So your contention is now that I came up with and decided to execute this plan at some random point during the day, after I'd already switched my vote to Blight?

Answer:

You could have come up with his plan while voting Cephrir, but with him close to lynch it would be better to lynch him, and attempt this on someone else.

Question:

Explain why I couldn't have just waited for some more people to vote for him.

Answer:

Because then it would be more productive to lynch then NK. Had he gotten more votes, and been more likely to been lynched you could have just as easily moved to someone else.

Page 18, post 444

Question:

And that doesn't seem at all tenuous to you? If this is such a good strategy, why don't more people do it? Why have I never done it before? Why would I go through all that effort for such a tiny reward?

Answer:

It could have gotten a scum a clear view on someones role, it wouldn't have been done if this was expected, and it is done.

There you go, all in one post, all in an easy to follow manner. If I missed any, please, tell me.

[YagamiLight]

I applaud you for actually going back and doing what I asked, Yagami (unlike some people). You actually did a good job of it, too, except for a few critical things.

First of all, you still assign way too much value to getting one player to claim. I realise that it would theoretically help the scum, but why would I risk so much to get one from any one random player? Your answers to my question on this topic are unsatisfying to me.

Of course you asked one player, it's either that or asking for a mass claim, which is extremely doubtful for anyone to do at this point in the game. The more you ask to claim, the more likely people will get on you. You would risk it because you could get the role. The more power roles gone the better chances the scum have.

All your answers about why I would ask Blight for a claim at a low number of votes, why I would choose him rather than Cephrir, etc, completely ignore the fact that people don't generally go around lynching claimed power roles early in the game - at least not the ones that scum would be most eager to nightkill. Why would I be eager to get a claim from Blight when he's at three votes when I could just wait for him to get to eight or nine? If he gets to eight or nine and claims, say, cop, there's no way he's going to be lynched, so I'll have the opportunity to kill him. Even if he

is

lynched, then I would still be rid of the cop just as effectively

and

I would get a nightkill on whomever I want,

rather than the a town-controlled lynch that could hit me or my scumbuddies.

On the other hand, let's say I do ask Blight for a claim at three votes and he actually gives it to me (again, let's say he's a cop). Well, first of all, I've just drawn a hell of a lot of attention to myself for outing the cop. Yes, perhaps I'm confident I can get myself out of it, but it's still a risk. Again, the cop won't be lynched, and someone else will. Now there's a greater chance that that someone else will be me, but even if we disregard that, I'm still in the same position as when Blight claims at a higher number of votes. Even if I get out of it, I've now hindered my ability to ask for claims in the future by drawing attention to myself for no good reason.

So, Yagami, would you care to explain again why I'd want Blight to claim at three votes?

Oh, and Glork, stop being scum please.

You asked him to claim early, because of something you mentioned in that post. Like I said, the more votes they have, the more likely to lynch them. Like you said (emphasized) the town lynch could hit anyone, so if you hit him early, Ceph would still be there for the town to lynch, and there wasn't much discussion for people to see someone new scummy instead. Where as done later, you or a scumbuddy may have made posts during this enough to be second on everyone's lists. This is assuming no one pointed at you for it. Should it have gone through, I doubt a whole lot of suspicion would be on you. There would be some for outing the cop, but the majority of people will be angry at you for that, not so much for asking for he claim, as those people would have gone after you prior to the claim like I did.

[YagamiLight]

EBWODP
MoS, if they aren't that great tell me why, don't just say they aren't.

[YagamiLight]

The point is not how many players I ask, Yagami, it's that getting one player to claim is not a big deal, and is so not worth the amount of risk you seem to think it's worth.

Sarc, the risk is the same for town to do so. My point about this is, considering they risk the same thing, being lynched, scum have more reason to do so, as they would discover a role. Regardless of town or scum, it is unlikely because of the risk, I have never said it was likely for anyone to do so, just that scum or more likely tan town.

You've completely dodged the main point of what I was saying - that I'm not better off with Blight claiming earlier. I'm worse off, or at best, exactly the same. Let me break it down in case I wasn't clear before.

Scenario 1: I ask Blight to claim early, Blight does so, someone else is lynched.
Result: Someone else is lynched. I can kill Blight (if he has a power role) that night. Probably increased suspicion on me.

In this scenario, had blight done so, things would have returned to Cephrir (as he had 4 votes, and had you returned, 5), so he is a likely lynch. This lowers the chances of a scumbuddy being lynched. But Blight being NK'ed does not raise suspicion on you. The outing of the role itself would have been the thing to do so, as everyone could see the role, so if you weren't scum, the scum could see it as well.

Scenario 2: I ask Blight to claim early, Blight does so, Blight is lynched.
Result: Blight is lynched. I can kill whomever I want (better than town-controlled lynch) that night. Probably increased suspicion on me.

Yes, here you would be under suspicion, which is why an early claim would be better, when less people are suspicious of him, and more likely to end up with scenario 1.

Scenario 3: Blight gets run up and someone asks him to claim, Blight does so, someone else is lynched.
Result: Someone else is lynched. I can kill Blight (if he has a power role) that night. No extra suspicion on me.

Yes, no extra suspicion on you, but it's a town controlled lynch that may hit a buddy, where in scenario 1, you have a likely hood of converting the town back to Cephrir, to avoid a buddy.

Scenario 4: Blight gets run up and someone asks him to claim, Blight does so, Blight is lynched.
Result: Blight is lynched. I can kill whomever I want (better than town-controlled lynch) that night. No extra suspicion on me.

This is definitely the best option for scum, but unlikely as well if he is a power role.

Scenario 3 is better for me than is Scenario 1, and Scenario 4 is better than Scenario 2. Obviously the optimal play if these are the only scenarios is to wait until Blight is run up before getting him to claim.

Scenario 1 could be better than three, because in 3 you have a town controlled lynch with likely hood to hit a scum buddy, where in 1 Cephrir is returned to, you have a better chance of ensuring town is hit rather than scum during the lynch, then can go ahead and remove Blight.

Now, of course, I'll admit that these are not the only scenarios. The scenario that actually played out (Blight not claiming) does not fall under any of these, and Blight's role could potentially change them as well. Because I'm still not entirely clear how my mind works in your hypothesis, I'm not sure which scenarios I supposedly would have been taking into account. But can you show me a realistic scenario in which asking Blight to claim at three votes is better for me than asking him to claim at nine?

I'm fairly sure I've mentioned this before. Should you have get him to claim at a higher number of votes there is a higher likelyhood of a scumbuddy being hit, where as asking when you did has a likely hood of being able to return to Cephrir and lynch him. Not only do you ensure town is lynched, you can also go ahead and NK Blight who claimed.

[YagamiLight]

That's not the only reason you would do so early, You would get a higher chance of lynching Cephrir rather than a buddy like I said, but there's also the fact that later it would be easier to just lynch Blight, rather than have him claim and let town go through and pick the next scummy. In the scenario where he is asked early, you already have someone up that you liked, you were voting Cephrir. So you can attempt to manipulate town to kill both of them. In the case of him getting more votes, it is easier to lynch Blight, and NK someone else you want, were if you got him to claim later, and everyone decides to not lynch him, then town will go after someone else, not necessarily someone you would want lynched and possibly a scum buddy then NK.

Also, I never said you're trying to draw attention to your self. Only a jester is going to

try

and draw attention to himself. Town or scum, you would do this not thinking you would get attention.

[YagamiLight]

Okay, I think I misread your fist paragraph the first time, It would be easier to lynch him if Blight claimed earlier, because during the time on Blight, other people may be seen as scummy, including a possible buddy. I never said it is a strong reason, it was a reason for why to do so earlier, coupled with the fact that later, it would be better to try and lynch him.
And, let me put my last post this way.
Scenario 4 > Scenario 1 >Scenario 2> Scenario 3.
That quote is referring to when he has more votes, so it's referring to 4 and 3. I say lynching him is better than if he were let off and someone else is lynched (4>3). Of course outing a power role for no good reason would draw attention to yourself. That goes back to why you would do it in the first place, especially as town. You never want to draw attention to yourself, but in this case, if you don't think asking for the claim would draw attention to yourself, you would be more likely to do so as scum because you have a reason.
Also I would like to say, after another reread, I'm going to

Unvote

you for it, because I don't see it as a strong enough scum tell, but I do believe it is a scum tell. Also I would like to say, lets stop with this, lets just agree to disagree for now, so I can reread and see who I find most scummy, and not focus on this anymore, and so that everyone else will start talking again. If we're going to start this again, it will be when I find you the most scummy, and it is a reason.

[YagamiLight]

I'm still rereading, but I would like to say SArc, you're doing exactly what you accused me and Blight od doing, dodging the questions. I want to know as well, why do you think Ibby and ! are protown? Also, you keep telling CKD to give opinions before asking questions, questions help form opinion of who is scum, the questions are important as well, so answer the question.

[YagamiLight]

I agree with SKruffs about both why scum would want to test Flameaxe and why he doesn't look protown. The scum may not want more lynches normally, but with Flameaxe, unless he's in their scumgroup, it's more like them getting an additional kill. Also, like has been said, Flameaxe is hiding behind having to be on the lynching wagon, instead of trying to lead his own. The way I see it though, considering both of these, I would say he is either neutral/self aligned, or pro-town.

[YagamiLight]

I'm saying I see a stronger chance of him being neutral or pro-town, but still do see a chance he's scum. Right now I think he's a neutral role, like a survivor.

[YagamiLight]

You know what, I'm re-

Voteing Sarcastro

. Here's why. His first 7 posts are random, nothing to see here. His next post stands out. Posted on page 3, post #61

Help me kill someone, please. This day is taking way too long.

3 pages, and just short of 27 hours into the game. Mind you this one is rather minor, because it

could

be a joke, but this really stands out to me, and the fact that no one comments on it. This was right before the flood of Jordan votes. Followed by his next post which is...

Unvote, Vote: JordanA24

Bandwagon time! Die scum die!

This one is also fairly minor, but the point is he posts no reason, except bandwagoning. Though there was reason to vote him. This put him at -3.
~~~ZONEACE, our double voter votes, and UA follows, lynching Jordan~~~
Now comes people voting Sarc for being in the start of day post, and the Flameaxe votes and claim happen.
Now is post 193, page 8. I'm only quoting the last part because the first is on Flameaxe, and the second on people voting himself.

Also, Glork + IH + MoS = scum x 3.

Unvote, Vote: Glork

Die, please.

He gives no reason, yet their are plenty of times before this were he tells people to give reasons to their votes on him. If needed I'll quote those as well. But those also refer back to his vote on Jordan. He thinks people should put the reasoning with their vote, but he doesn't for Jordan or Glork at this point. Then top of page 9, Glork asks for a reason, and his response? Gut. Two things about this. first is just the fact that he didn't bother posting it until asked, when he's always asking people to give reasons for their votes, seems that he should post it without being asked. Next is his vote for Cephrir.

Unvote, Vote: Cephrir

Hey Skruffs. Help me lynch the fence-sitting scum.

Here his reasoning is fence-sitting scum. That's the only reasoning. While I do see this as scummy, I only see this as mildly scummy, because there is always the possibility that the person honestly doesn't know what to think, and which side they believe is right. Yet he now believes that Cephrir is the number 1 ideal vote, and needs to be immediatly lynched for not knowing which side he thinks is right. Also, his reason for voting Blight, given at the time is here.

I really don't like how you started this wagon (and how people followed you with weak reasoning). It seemed pretty opportunistic, if you ask me.

I really don't like how you're scum.

This is the only time he mentions Blight before Glork votes Blights, where he then just comments saying Blight is tomorrow Cephrir is today, then votes Blight. Still only having given the fence-sitting for Cephrir and the one post for Blight.
~~~Now is the CLaim arguement, I'm not going to be quoting anything from it, but still stand by what I said at th end of see it Mildly scummy.~~~
Then on page 24, post 590, He once again states he believes Blight and Cephrir to be scum, and looking at Glrok, still having added no additional reasons. He then uses the same reasoning used on Cephrir (fence-sitting) plus a new one (question only) to call CKD scum. and the last post is

Hey Sarc, what particular reason do you have to think Skruffs is not scum?

I don't. But there are at least three people who are scummier than he is, and your argument against him hasn't been especially convincing to me. Once Cephrir, Blight, and CKD are dead, I'll take a closer look at Skruffs if you want.

Where he says the three are scummier than Skruffs, still no additional reasoning, and that he'll take a closer look after the other three are dead. Now, how do you know Skruffs isn't scummier without looking? The thing is, maybe if you looked at skruffs he would be scummier (btw, I'm taking a closer look at Skruffs after this post). He's focused on lynching those three with the limited reasons he's given, and not looking to see if someone is more scummy.

[YagamiLight]

So you're saying you wanting reasons but not giving them is playstyle? Because that is the biggest thing I was getting at, you giving little to no reasons but wanting them when people vote you. Also, Nobody cares? well, then I'll just stop posting my thoughts and only post votes from this point on if nobody cares.

[YagamiLight]

Fence-sitting is as much something scum do as voting. I'm saying both town and scum would do so. I did say it was scummy, just not as scummy as your making it out as in your post. Also, you say you have very good reasons, why don't you post them? I quoted the only reasons you have given, all of which are small. I have reasons to believe your scum, very good imo, but if you want me to stop, then like I said in my last post, I'll only post votes from now on.

[YagamiLight]

I don't care about the other people's reasons right now. I see reasons for him to be scummy, I get him being scummy. My point is that you have been voting people giving little to no reasons calling them scum, yet you want people to post reasons for voting you. You're not posting reasons, up until that post you had only posted one thing about Cephrir. Also, you say me saying what I am doesn't make them any less blatantly untrue, the reason given for voting Cephrir by you

is

small. Fence-sitting was the only reason you had given and had been referring to up until now, and that is a small reason to lynch someone, since town and scum could honestly be unsure about something. I'm not defending him, I am attacking you however, but not for being aggressive, but for not following yourself in the demand for reasons. I'm attacking you for being hypocritical.

[YagamiLight]

Okay, I sat here staring at my post, and your right (in whichever recent post that was). The reasons for Cephrir are better.

Unvote Vote Cephrir

. Also, I don't want another debate like the last one.

[YagamiLight]

My question is about the scum GF part. Why do you think he could possibly a GF, but not a normal goon?

[YagamiLight]

I'm sorry, but could you explain how thats a bread crumb? Also, I know this is WIFOM, but supposing I did see it as a breadcrumb, and I was scum, wouldn't it be better for them for it to not come out in the open? Know it is less likely scum will be able to lynch him, and they have to worry about possible doc protection.

[YagamiLight]

You know I noticed that he had claimed, I was going to wait for him to claim again anyways just because it was kind of buried, and if he were scum he may not have remembered it and claimed something else. The way I had seen it, if he were telling the truth there was nothing to worry about. It does seem a bit odd to me that he didn't just repost it though, I mean he quoted it in 1023, but makes no mention to having already claimed his name and doesn't re-claim it. As town he should already know that name to repost it, and even if he didn't, it's as simple as checking a pm.

[YagamiLight]

A cop claim is a semi-good reason not to lynch him. Cop's are very useful roles, so just because its more likely scum would claim one doesn't mean you shouldn't consider it. Just because most of the time they're scum doesn't mean it lends credence to your arguement, it's like playing Russian Roulette (for some reason Russian Roulette has been stuck in my head all day), in Russian roulette most of the time the chamber will be empty, but there' is still that chance that this is the time it wont be. Also, in closed setups, you can't really rely on the numbers as games get further away from the normal setups. Basically, I'm saying the numbers d not lend credence to your arguement, and when someone claims cop you have to give them benefit of the doubt and be more careful about lynching them.