Soccer Spirits Mafia (Game Over)


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Post Post #4808 (isolation #200) » Mon Apr 18, 2016 5:26 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 4804, TheWayItEnds wrote:town/not town is such a strong result in this game.

how do you give that role a bp?


Do you realize how many killing roles we have in this game? The RJ has an even nights kill. Nosferatu had an every night kill. MoI slot has a kill on the 2nd night of targeting the same player. ZZZX (Destruction) was a serial killer. We know we have/had Mafia with a kill, and then there's likely a Chaos faction with a kill. That's 6 killers, 4 of which are capable of shooting someone every single night. The only logical thing to do in mind is give the cop who can investigate ALL scum factions extra protection, just in case they outed themselves too early or if they played scummy enough to attract a town vig shot.

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Post Post #4813 (isolation #201) » Mon Apr 18, 2016 5:47 am

Post by Almost50 »

@MoI:

Well, you can discuss my reasoning/analysis, but please don't ridicule me (unless you want to shut me up). I do not claim to be a master in this game, but I do my best and I "think" my analysis makes sense.

At the start of D2 we had TWO kills, not one. One did appear to be a day kill, but it was only 2 minutes into the day which is suspicious on it's own. Once DS flipped and we saw he could delay someone's night action until the start of the next day it became apparently clear that was the reason for the delayed night kill that looked like an extremely early day kill. I don't think I went astray there. In fact I think the majority of players had accepted that for a fact (at least at the time DS card was exposed to us).

Whoever killed EII and/or Spiff must've been blocked the next night (and that's a fact proved by their role cards which we can still refer to). Whoever killed either was roleblocked on N1 & N2 respectively.

The kill on Spiff actually happened on N2. It was not delayed either. It was a slight mod error, and the mod did acknowledge that error upon the flip. It's even listed as a night kill on the front page (post #0). So, someone got blocked on N1 and someone got blocked on N2, and DS didn't commit the crime on N1 bc he used his delay action on the one who did it instead.

My thoughts are DS was avoiding doing the kill himself for fear of a Tracker/watcher existence. He was a suspect already and a Tracker was likely to target him, so he didn't want to be seen visiting the victim. This leads me to believe "someone" was blocked on N3 and is still alive.

So, EII (Cop) was killed on N1 and that explains why how KC & heat survived the first night. On the second night someone decided Spiff was making the right calls and pushes they decided they were more dangerous than the two cops. Either that OR -at least one of- the cops is lying. I do not give either possibility more credit than the other. There are still many holes in my theory due to many unknowns, but it's not like I'm using moon logic either. I'm trying to find a logical explanation as to why scum (Mafia or otherwise) do/did not have the cops as their prime targets. The Mafia doesn't even bother with Heat to start with bc he cannot investigate them anyway.

Am I wrong? I could be. Am I being silly? Not a chance.

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Post Post #4815 (isolation #202) » Mon Apr 18, 2016 5:49 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 4807, MagnaofIllusion wrote:@Thor - talk to me about Klingon. The more I read from her the more I think she's scum. But how many scum do you think are hiding in a leader-group QT? I mean at this point we already had two. If Heat is Chaos 3rd party and Klingon is Mafia that leaves what ... Wisdom and Almost as the only Town original members? Does that make sense?


??? Itlepop was 100% town.

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Post Post #4829 (isolation #203) » Mon Apr 18, 2016 9:50 am

Post by Almost50 »

^^ This entirely coincides with my view. I don't see why any other faction would kill a specific Mafia/Not Mafia Cop over a specific Chaos/Not Chaos or a more general Town/Not Town.

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Post Post #4884 (isolation #204) » Tue Apr 19, 2016 7:16 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 4882, MagnaofIllusion wrote:Yeah but she didn't support either until way late on the Maxwell lynch. And her reasoning on the Errant vote was "sheeping". If she wanted to scum-hunt outside the two independent of the read I could see that. Instead to my quick ISO read she just jumped on a wagon that wasn't a claimed guilty.


I wouldn't have had it any other way considering we didn't want to out the neighbourhood. If we all started the day voting Max (or DS) we would've had to explain why we all are jumping on him, which means we would've had to say we are Leaders and we had a guilty .. basically outing the council to any OTHER faction (Mafia already knew who we are.

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Post Post #4917 (isolation #205) » Tue Apr 19, 2016 10:39 am

Post by Almost50 »

For the umpteenth time I find myself lost between all your talk. let me try to break it into bits:

@Nahdia:

I would very much appreciate it if you separated your own deductions/speculations/beliefs from you knowledge/info. You did clarify recently about the Spiff accelerated kill theory, but until you did I took that to be a fact 9and I suspect many others did). You need to realize that the more town read you are the more important your phrasing becomes. Nobody's going to assume you're lying or misleading (I won't) so we're likely to take what appears to be info as such, especially when you sound as confident.

@Thor, MoI, SC, TWIE (I got confusded, but I do know Thor is part of it):

Some of you are already making assumptions and deduction about Nahdia's alignment based on her behaviour towards the KC case, when KC has not even flipped yet. I'm opposed to the lynch of either KC or Heat, but -since it appears these are the only valid lynches of the day- I'm voting Heat. I still think it's best if we let them both live and investigate eachother. the only way they both clear eachother is if they're both town. If one is scum the other will get a guilty on them, and if both are scum they're guaranteed not to be of the same alignment (why would two of the same faction claim Cop???)

@Everybody who's not on Heat or KC:

You need to decide now between these two. It's ok to provide one name as an alternative you'd prefer to lynch, but unless enough people settle on the same alternative I don't see the point of keeping your vote on them or not voting at all. We have roughly 30 hours to go (give or take a couple of hours)

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Post Post #4919 (isolation #206) » Tue Apr 19, 2016 10:44 am

Post by Almost50 »

And to elaborate on the :let them both check eachother" bit:

KC outed DS so she's not mafia. She is either town of chaos.

Heat could be chaos, mafia or town, but cannot be chaos WITH KC.

So;

1- Both are town = they will clear eachother
2- KC is chaos & Heat is town = Heat will get a guilty on KC
3- Heat is chaos/mafia & KC is town = KC will get a guilty on Heat
4- KC is chaos & Heat is mafia = Both will get a guilty on eachother.

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Post Post #4920 (isolation #207) » Tue Apr 19, 2016 10:48 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 4918, SirCakez wrote:I haven't assumed anything about Nahdia's alignment yet though. I'm saying her defense of Klingon is weird and makes little sense but it's doesn't mean anything about her alignment yet, at least until we see Klingon's flip.


Fair enough. I did say I was confused and didn't feel like re-reading the last couple of pages, so apologies to you if your name got inserted their by means of my confusion. I don't really recall who Thor was responding to, and I'm not feeling well, plus my screen has gone bad (reddish) so I will need to get a new monitor sooner than later, but -for now- this is all I've got and it suck to just look at it. (feels like a view through a sand storm).

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Post Post #4926 (isolation #208) » Tue Apr 19, 2016 11:29 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 4925, Wisdom wrote:If we were to lynch outside those I'd only lynch random or bro


FINALLY, we agree on something!

My own preferred lynches ARE those two. Spiff was also scum reading BRO, but null reading random. EP had random down as scum (along with myself and KC, mind you). He had BRO as a null. You specified these two. Nahdia would definitely go for random. I'd be interested to know what SC & RJ think of these two as well. I don't mind hearing from MoI, FB, TWIE & thor about them too.

This leaves KC, Heat, random & BRO (the two current leading candidates and the two alternatives).

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Post Post #4938 (isolation #209) » Tue Apr 19, 2016 1:24 pm

Post by Almost50 »

In post 4936, BROseidon wrote:Although tbh I could totally do random


Then prove it and vote there. I also will if you do. How about you Wis? SC? MoI??

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Post Post #4941 (isolation #210) » Tue Apr 19, 2016 1:54 pm

Post by Almost50 »

VOTE: random

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Post Post #4944 (isolation #211) » Tue Apr 19, 2016 2:16 pm

Post by Almost50 »

@SC:

I REALLY think random is a better lynch here. And btw; IF -by any chance- he flips a framer then the two Cops can and SHOULD check eachother still.

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Post Post #4963 (isolation #212) » Tue Apr 19, 2016 4:54 pm

Post by Almost50 »

In post 4960, Radiant Jeanne wrote:Does Silent Madness really sound like a town aligned ability? :\


Is this RC or Jeanne? I'd have a different response depending on who's asking. :P

OK.. I'll type them both:

@Jeanne:

Itlepop had a "disturb" active. Does that sound town at all?? EII had a "Meteor Burst", Nos had "Blue Devil" & "Nova Demolition", and EP had "Deep Darkness", "Dark Matter Blast" & "Whirlpool Of Blood". Does any of those sound like a town aligned ability? However, they were all town aligned players.

@RC:

Does Radiant Cowbelts strike you at all like a name of a good player?!! :P

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Post Post #5016 (isolation #213) » Wed Apr 20, 2016 12:37 pm

Post by Almost50 »

UNVOTE:

Personally, I don't see the case against SC at all, so I'm not going to get on this one. I hope you all know what you're doing.

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Post Post #5025 (isolation #214) » Wed Apr 20, 2016 1:53 pm

Post by Almost50 »

In post 5018, BROseidon wrote:Like, he posted a read list that was literally "all the low-hanging fruit is scum"


It's not like RJ, Nahdia & Wisdom are globally being read as anything but obv!town for example!!

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Post Post #5204 (isolation #215) » Sun Apr 24, 2016 1:19 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 5203, Nahdia wrote:Nice shot.


??? What's nice about killing a townie??

And didn't SC's role card state everyone will be RB'd except Mafia? This means we still have at least one more Mafia in the game. Hmmmm... :shifty:

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Post Post #5212 (isolation #216) » Sun Apr 24, 2016 2:39 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 5205, Nahdia wrote:do strongkills penetrate roleblocks on this site's meta?


Nope! A roleblock is a roleblock. Unless someone explicitly cannot be roleblocked (ascetic?)

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Post Post #5213 (isolation #217) » Sun Apr 24, 2016 2:47 am

Post by Almost50 »

@Nahdia:

You still haven't explained the "Nice shot" comment.

@Thor:

Wait up. We agreed to give them a chance to check eachother, and they were both -presumably- blocked last night. The day is still young and we don't need to rush. We have time to discuss matters and work things out with everyone else before we start pushing for lynches.

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Post Post #5220 (isolation #218) » Sun Apr 24, 2016 4:13 am

Post by Almost50 »

@Thor:

Well, I went into the night phase assuming that was the plan, except when I saw SC's card I knew it was a failure. Ok.. we did not "agree", but I "assumed" that was the notion.

Anyway, SC seemed to be pushing KC more, but I'd have to consider the possibility both ARE Cops, in which case SC would -of course- want to lynch the Town/Not Town Cop over the Chaos/Not Chaos one bc he was Mafia not Chaos. Heat was no threat to him anyway even if he was indeed a Cop.

Now it does hit me. Both Heat & MoI can find Chaos (either/or actually. If Chaos are a team then Heat can. If they're a 3rd party then MoI can). neither of them was killed, so it's not a Chaos kill (I'm assuming Chaos does exist by that name). In fact, if there were any 3rd party (by whatever name) capable of killing last night it would've been MoI most likely (he did have an attempt on his life last day phase, right?). unless -of course- they intend to take him out by broad day light today.

So, once again it boils down to "Is there a Chaos? And if there is, are they a team or a single 3rd party?"

My mind keeps playing a trick on me, leading me to contradicting outcomes. KC is the most likely Mafia target. She's not dead. However, she did already did catch one of them, so she can't be one of them herself. Maybe they knew she would be roleblocked last night anyway, so decided she could kill her later? Or maybe they are counting on us to lynch her still? Or maybe she IS one of them, and bussed DS for town!cred?? And if the latter, then why BRO over Wisdom (the other person who proved they could catch Mafia)??

WAIT! BRO was a double-voter AND a vote stealer (Double voter on Goalies). To my knowledge he was the last claimed striker.

I'll check his ISO.

OK, in 1043 he suggested BB/MoI might be town, and in #1597 he restates not wanting to lynch Molla/MoI.

In #1981 he outs his vote stealing ability makes him unlynchable in the final stages of the game, and in subsequent posts he goes on to explain how it works.


He had really bad reads though at the start of the game, but they improved much later on. His first serious vote was on Spiff (#1046). I say "serious bc everything prior to that was class fishing with his double-vote ability.

His second vote was on EII (#1596). His third was spot on though (#1921, voting DS). His vote was moved off DS and put on him (by TWIE??) and he revoted DS on #2099 but it didn't work.

On D2 he straight up voted Max on #2673. On D3 he voted EP (#3227), but unvotes on #3717 pending Heat's response to his question (about Chaos being a faction or an individual). In the following post (#3718) he says he wants to lynch Heat.

On #4021 he was one of the earliest people to suspect SC and even casted a vote on him, but he went back to EP on #4148.

On D4 he went back to his SC push, and he confessed to have redirected EII to investigate Skrew/SC. In #4780 he votes KC, switches to random in #4940, then back on SC in #5014.

OK, so BRO had random (a defender/goalie) in his vision. It makes sense that random would be the one to shoot BRO, given that BRO pursues his previous cases (as shown in his SC case).

It makes sense that random would feel threatened with the double voting ability + 2 remaining vote stealing shots, totaling BRO's voting ability on him to 4 votes (L-2).

VOTE: randomidget

Now let's see: MoI was most suspicious of random. Heat had him as null. Wisdom wants him lynched. KC's reads I have no recollection of, but she did vote him to save her neck. Finally, SC put him as a scum lean but not his top scum read. In fact, SC wanted to imply BRO, Heat & KC were the scum.

Wait. let me rephrase my case (in addition to the above reasoning which suggests he might've shot BRO):

Check his responses in
Also in and he explicitly points out multiball, and with 6 investigative claims I cannot think of another role that could also imply that except for a framer who can make people look guilty.

His votes on D1 were on EP, EII, BRO, Heat, DDO/Thor & ZZZX.
On D2 he voted he only voted Max, and only when it became apparent Max was going down.
On D3 he voted only EP and stayed on him until the end.
On D4 he voted SC, KC

In he suggested the vigging of TWIE (who, according to Wisdom is town)

Upon SC's lynch, SC never voted random eventhough he knew his voted would counted for TWO and he could've saved himself. I take it that he knew he was scum read by many investigatives though so he didn't want to take down his scum buddy. Random did vote SC and I take it that was for town cred, bc even after that SC specified Heat, KC & BRO for scum and didn't mention random. The wagon did include RJ (obv!town), Wisdom (obv!town), TWIE (conf!town according to Wisdom investigation) and Nahdia (obv!town) so he could not have included any of them.

The one and only problem is still why he favoured the kill of BRO over investigatives? Wisdom's role is unclear. MoI is looking for 3rd party, so can't catch Mafia. Heat is looking for Chaos, so can't catch Mafia. KC is the only one who can catch Mafia and she was blocked anyway. So, even if we chose to believe all investigative claims to be true, BRO's potential 4-votes ability would've been the most threatening element in the immediate time.

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Post Post #5233 (isolation #219) » Mon Apr 25, 2016 1:56 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 5226, TheWayItEnds wrote:
In post 5223, Randomnamechange wrote:Or I voted SC because I thought he was scum.
I didn't know bro's vote power.
People aren't going to hammer with two votes on me at this point.
I explained the multiball thing.
The vigging twie post was a joke.
VOTE: klingon
In what world is that case good? You should really know better.


this post is actually real bad.


@Thor:

THIS is what TWIE had to say. He may not have acknowledged the original case on random, but he noted random's response was less than optimal. :wink:

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Post Post #5235 (isolation #220) » Mon Apr 25, 2016 2:36 am

Post by Almost50 »

You know, I've been previously ridiculed in this very game for making a weaker case on DS, and look how he flipped? I'm not claiming I "know" random is Mafia, bc I don't. However, I do trust my instinct, and I think my case makes sense.. at least it does to me.

Who shot BRO? Why BRO? Given everyone was blocked last night except Mafia, someone felt BRO was more of a threat to them than most anyone else, including the investigators. That was the first thing that made me look at classes and how they worked. BRO was a striker, which is dangerous for Defenders. If anyone else (other than a defender) was afraid of the vote steal alone, why not TWIE or MoI?? If it was NOT for the vote steal ability, why not any of the investigatives? So I went back and looked on the investigative claims and how they worked. Then I looked at BRO's ISO to see who he suspected and COULD have used his vote steal ability against. It all lead me to random, so I checked out random's ISO. It all adds up in my mind. I don't see how throwing in different names would make it look the same. I would very much appreciate it if you could provide an alternative version using a different name or two.

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Post Post #5245 (isolation #221) » Mon Apr 25, 2016 7:11 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 5239, Wisdom wrote:I remember thinking that SirCakez could quickhammer random if he wanted. Yet he didn't.


EXACTLY!

Check this out:

In post 4982, dramonic wrote:
Votecount 59


randomidget (6): Nahdia, BROseidon, Almost50, Wisdom, Klingoncelt
Heat (3): MagnaOfIllusion, Thor665, Firebringer
Klingoncelt (2): SirCakez, Heat
SirCakez (2): Radiant Jeanne, Randomidget

Not Voting: TWIE

It's 7 to lynch. Deadline is in 0 days and 13 hours!


randomidget @ 6 votes (BRO's count for 2) and SC could've added TWO on his own (midget was @ L-1). We know SC was MAFIA, so how come he didn't vote midget and end the day at that point?

You want more? Wisdon moved his vote off random next, so random was @L-2 when SC GOT ONLINE AND POSTED (#5001, 5003, 5005) then Wisdom moved to SC and SC posted #5008, 5011 & 5013 all before BRO moved to SC himself. 105 minutes between SC's #5001 & BRO's #5014. 105 minutes where SC could have hammered random anytime he wanted. Note that I'm counting only the time I know SC was online, not from the time random was put at L-1 (which was much longer, but it could be that SC wasn't online).

I'm sorry, but I don't see why scum!SC would spare town!random which would have -at least- bought him another night. Was he expecting to be vigged by FJ?? Maybe. But still.. why go down by lynch and take only FJ with you when you could've lynched someone else and still take down FJ when you got NK'd (as per the phrasing of SC's 2nd ability).

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Post Post #5247 (isolation #222) » Mon Apr 25, 2016 7:16 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 5241, MagnaofIllusion wrote:but 5220 has so many scummy lines like “is there a Chaos?” when clearly we have had Daykills which ONLY makes sense from a Non-Mafia,


Yes, but is it called "Chaos"?? My whole argument there was about the existence of the NAME, not just about any 3rd party. Heat says he can detect "Chaos" members, and if we don't have that name in the game then he IS scum regardless. We had a "Destruction" flip on D1, and if one wanted to invent a name off the top of their head; Chaos would seem to fit in.

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Post Post #5249 (isolation #223) » Mon Apr 25, 2016 7:26 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 5246, Nahdia wrote:is it not possible SC just didn't think he was a likely lynch?


Theoretically that IS possible, but practically anyone who gets pushed by RC should get a tad worried. I've seen RC getting the lynch he wanted way too many times to think his vote on someone is just that!

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Post Post #5250 (isolation #224) » Mon Apr 25, 2016 7:33 am

Post by Almost50 »

@MoI:

I don't want to confuse anyone with too many unnecessary probabilities, so this is just a side note for you.

Spoiler: Something I do NOT want to bring up yet
I have actually played before in a game where one scum faction had a VIG kill as well as their factional kill. The game in reference was MB (Mafia & Wolves) and you can find it on my wiki page (#2). Actually FB was a replace in for the WW Vig slot in that game.

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Post Post #5252 (isolation #225) » Mon Apr 25, 2016 7:43 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 5251, MagnaofIllusion wrote:No reason for Scum to Quickhammer Town in that situation.


No reason for scum to end a day that had only 13 hours to deadline??

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Post Post #5253 (isolation #226) » Mon Apr 25, 2016 7:46 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 5251, MagnaofIllusion wrote:Please address why you think Random then ended up on the SirCakez wagon instead of Heat.


I'm not him, so I can only speculate.

1- Because Heat is/was NOT AS THREAT! KC is. Heat (even if cop) cannot investigate MAFIA.
2- SC had the one way lover with RJ. Getting rid of RC would be a great thing regardless. Frankly, I would've done just that if I was SC's partner. Bus my partner for town cred AND get RC out of the way. Not a bad deal if you ask me.

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Post Post #5255 (isolation #227) » Mon Apr 25, 2016 7:51 am

Post by Almost50 »

Actually, also RJ had that redirection thing on odd nights, and had an unstoppable kill on even nights. It was a win-win situation.

Besides, random himself said he can "forgo nightactions to be immune to all non-kill actions". This means he can choose to be immune to investigations anyway. Kill BRO, lynch KC, kill Wisdom next. Put yourself in his place with these stated abilities and under the same circumstances and see where it leads you.

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Post Post #5256 (isolation #228) » Mon Apr 25, 2016 7:56 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 5254, MagnaofIllusion wrote:That really doesn’t make sense for them to have not shot either Wisdom or Klingon during the day


I've just responded to that. random is ascetic if so he chooses to.

As for Heat claiming before ZZZX flipped, I missed that, so yes.. probably that wasn't the case. But weren't you one of those who suspected Heat in the first place? I mean, if you don't believe him you would doubt what he says. If you believe him then Chaos does exist and is a team not a single 3rd party.

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Post Post #5259 (isolation #229) » Mon Apr 25, 2016 8:02 am

Post by Almost50 »

@MoI:
Look: RJ had probably the last direct killing ability for the town. Even yours is conditional and would be done over 2 phases, so -maybe- the last 1/2 Mafia have a plan to counter that anyway. random's ascetic makes him immune to non-killing actions, so RJ was one major threat bc he DID have a KILLING ability.

Wait! Yours cannot performed on him either, because you'd first have to perform a non-killing action first, so there! Taking out the last town Vig makes much sense for an ascetic. The more you ask the more I see stuff, so bring on more questions please!

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Post Post #5263 (isolation #230) » Mon Apr 25, 2016 8:12 am

Post by Almost50 »

OK, MoI: Please make your case. WHY is random town? So far you've been hard defending him picking holes in my case on him like a lawyer would defending Don Corleone himself. Fine. Now please make your case for the public to convince them Don random is actually a fit candidate for Mayor!!

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Post Post #5264 (isolation #231) » Mon Apr 25, 2016 8:19 am

Post by Almost50 »

I've seen it all before so I don't know what to make of MoI's argument for random (instead of letting random make his own arguments). There was a time when I thought a fight this hard would make the defending party confirmed scum if/when the defendant flips scum, but I have seen town hard defending scum of late that I don't even think scum would go that far defending their scum buddy!!

As it stands, I'm not voting ANY of the cops. Period. Also, the Tracker. Nahdia I have down as a strong town read, and TWIE is town according to investigations. That leaves ME, Thor & random, and I'm not voting myself either. Thor I have no case against.

So... by PoE my vote is on random. Join me or find your own case on someone else.

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Post Post #5266 (isolation #232) » Mon Apr 25, 2016 8:29 am

Post by Almost50 »

FYI: random started the day voting precisely KC ... the COP that could detect MAFIA. Heat is available, but as he checks Chaos random would have no interest on lynching him. He's not concerned whether Heat is a cop or IS Chaos. He wants the Cop that can investigate him.

On the previous day phase, random spent the whole of the day voting KC. he only switched to KC at the final hours, and when there was no real heat on KC (as you pointed out). Maybe he got caught in there. Maybe he couldn't move out in proper time. Maybe he left his vote there thinking it was safe and never logged back in until the end of the day! How -the hell- should I know why he ended up voting his own scum partner all the way to the lynch. Why would I even care why he did it? It doesn't refute any of the reasons I provided for me to think he is MAFIA!

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Post Post #5275 (isolation #233) » Mon Apr 25, 2016 12:27 pm

Post by Almost50 »

In post 5273, Wisdom wrote:
In post 5249, Almost50 wrote:anyone who gets pushed by Wisdom should get a tad worried.

fixed
SC should know he's doomed the moment I voted him, he played ASOIAF with me.


:lol: Well, that might be true. I don't know that though. It's my first game with you. However, I did play many games with RC and I know he can make a push out of thin air, and he usually is spot on too (I don't recall ever playing with scum!RC though, so maybe that's why, but from what I've learned from him he also busses hard as scum).

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Post Post #5278 (isolation #234) » Mon Apr 25, 2016 2:40 pm

Post by Almost50 »

@Any player not named MoI:

random could make himself ascetic BY FORGOING NIGHT ACTION. It's an either/or situation. He either kills and is prone to investigations, or he stays put and is ascetic. READ HIS CLAIM!

RJ would've still been a threat either way though. RJ could still kill random even if the latter went ascetic. RJ could've redirected random's kill if random chose to kill. Either way RJ had to go. BRO was the next threat (someone MoI forgot to mention in his response). He could have messed up the night action if random went for one, and he could also have lynched random almost single handedly.

KC is the third threat, bc he can investigate random, but only if random is in action (i.e. does NOT forgo the night action). If random plans to kill KC tonight he had to make sure both RJ and BRO were gone so his shot doesn't get redirected EVEN if he gets investigated by KC. Better still is to try and get KC lynched all through the day, and only shoot her if that fails. If he does manage to get her lynched though, he can target Wisdom next.

Wake up before it's too late. If SC used his 4th ability on his scum buddy it means they're unlynchable for 2 days and cannot be killed for 2 nights too. By the time you start suspecting them it will be way too late. You don't actually need to take 2 days to finally see random is scum just like you did with DS.

I could support a Heat lynch, but ONLY to expose MoI. At this point I'd fully expect Heat to flip town just as he claims to be. The problem is that mislynch could cost us the game if random IS the last Mafia.

I'm done arguing. You guys do as you see fit.

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Post Post #5279 (isolation #235) » Mon Apr 25, 2016 3:09 pm

Post by Almost50 »

Btw, when I first started playing Mafia I always liked to be town. Fortunately, I have rarely drawn scum anyway, and in the two games I got to chose my own role (Greatee Mafia on another site and Modified Greatest on this site) I picked to be aligned with town. this is because I enjoy the challenge of analyzing and doing the math my own way.

Of late though I'm honestly starting to regret hating to play scum. The townies are 75% likely to hand their own bums to Mafia on a silver plate with everybody not only being stubborn (for no apparent reason) but ALSO scum reading other townies for trying to THINK differently. My only scum game on record on this site my partner got lynched on D1 (it was a beginners game) and I was up against a mountain to climb. However, I was once self-aligned (NOT scum, bc my win con did NOT contradict with town, as I was supposed to get myself NK'd to win) and THAT was the game I enjoyed the most. I didn't need to argue with anyone. I didn't need to convince anyone with anything, and I called all my shots. I lost because -surprise surprise- I STILL didn't look like a threat to scum for them to shoot me, but that's besides the point. My point is being town-aligned nowadays sucks big time. It's a real pain. I can't take this in every single game I play (having someone pegged as scum only for the town to disregard me until it's too damn late). I lost at least 2 of my 3 lost games as town bc of it. The 3rd one was bc two townies got into a quarrel tunneling eachother until they both got mop-killed on D1. It's all there on my wiki page if someone wants to check. Like "Guys, KT is scum...".. "no he isn't. he is just a VI". "I'm telling you this is SCUM". "No! You're just not good enough to make the calls".

*Takes a deep breath*

OK.. so.. Nahdia: You make the call.. who should I be voting? I'd also consider both KC's and Wisdom's input.. oh, and TWIE -of course- since he is as good as confirmed town to me. So, these four I will follow, but I'd give Nahdia's opinion more weight 9she's the only one who supported me against DS early on D1)

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Post Post #5289 (isolation #236) » Mon Apr 25, 2016 9:51 pm

Post by Almost50 »

In post 5288, Wisdom wrote:Klingon


I very much doubt KC would agree on this though. I'll wait for Nahdia & TWIE to give me some direction.

RJ's first passive: "Your actions resolve ENTIRELY BEFORE the rest of the night action."

I'd argue this means his shot would've resolved before your class passive, but I'm not sure.

However, now that you mention you also have a BP it's becoming extremely ridiculous. You mean to tell me you could sit back and do nothing and become a 2-shot kill immune (1 redirection and 1 BP) AND ascetic for the night?? Now I KNOW SC must've used his 4th ability on you. There's NO WAY dram would pile up all these immunities on one role. It's like a GF given BP ability. They can neither be investigated nor killed, and the only way they're going down is by lynch.

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Post Post #5290 (isolation #237) » Mon Apr 25, 2016 9:53 pm

Post by Almost50 »

EDBWODP:

The first line is directed @ Wis. The rest is a response to random. Sorry for the confusion.

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Post Post #5291 (isolation #238) » Mon Apr 25, 2016 10:00 pm

Post by Almost50 »

Hold on! Wait one damn second!! Your claim is even worse than THIS:

In post 3085, dramonic wrote:
Wakey waker!


DiamondSentinel,
Lucian
, killed Night 2

Image


It is now Day 3! With 16 alive it's 9 to lynch!
Deadline is 2 weeks


DS had the same class passive. He was "half-ascetic" though (only to Trackers/Watchers), and he could share his ONE SHOT kill immunity with his team.

You're still telling me you are a FULL ascetic, and have TWO SHOT kill immunity on you?? Does the red font on your PM read Mafia or Chaos??

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Post Post #5293 (isolation #239) » Mon Apr 25, 2016 10:07 pm

Post by Almost50 »

In post 4987, Randomnamechange wrote:Basically I forgot about vigs and thought that the phrasing around first night kill each night was implying multiplw non-town killings. I then realized but multiple people agreed so I didn't bother mentioning it.


Tell me again how the phrasing "The first nightkill targeting you will fail" leads you to believe it's multi-ball??

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Post Post #5295 (isolation #240) » Mon Apr 25, 2016 10:26 pm

Post by Almost50 »

No he didn't. he said he thought the phrasing was implying it, but I do not see such implication, and I'm not buying the "I forgot about vigs" part. Not in a dram game. Not in a role madness game. Not in this universe.

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Post Post #5309 (isolation #241) » Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:08 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 5303, TheWayItEnds wrote:which is only one more day and night at this point.


One more night and one more day apart from today. Seeing as we will most probably lynch someone today, that's 2 lynches and -at least- one NK, but likely 2 (if I'm right and there are 2 killers on the loose, only one of which is Mafia). Besides, who say we will lynch him when we're down to six? Who says I will still be alive (or Nahdia, for that matter) to push him? Frankly, it looks like your mysterious unlimited voting ability might come in handy at some point soon.

But you haven't told me who you would rather me vote. You are one of the four I specifically asked for their opinion if you had missed it. Who is the most likely scum (regardless of a specific faction alignment)??

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Post Post #5354 (isolation #242) » Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:38 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 5342, Randomnamechange wrote:Half of it made no sense, half of it was lies.


Lies??? Point one, please. Just one!

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Post Post #5379 (isolation #243) » Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:07 pm

Post by Almost50 »

Obviously, this town likes to go in circles dwelling on fluff until the very last hour! Well, I can't really complain as it did work in our favour TWICE thus far. I'm just a little worried we might be pushing our luck too far and could turn an almost guaranteed town win into a mess.

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Post Post #5381 (isolation #244) » Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:42 pm

Post by Almost50 »

Fine. I'll propose an order IF everybody would agree to it:

MoI investigates Heat. Heat investigates KC. KC investigates FB. FB Tracks Wisdom. Wisdom investigates MoI.

OR (this is up to MoI, actually):

MoI investigates KC, KC investigates Heat. Heat investigates FB. FB Tracks Wisdom. Wisdom investigates MoI.

Also, we can have KC/Heat (the one not being investigated by MoI) to investigate MoI, with FB & Wis confirming eachother.

OR, KC & Heat investigate eachother and the other 3 investigate eachother in whichever order they like (but they have to agree on one).

OR... Oh, well. You get the idea. I think MoI should first decide on which one he wants to investigate of the other 4 and then that one picked by MoI should decide on his target from the other 3 and so on.

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Post Post #5382 (isolation #245) » Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:44 pm

Post by Almost50 »

Wait! But that means we let all 5 live for the day. Do we lynch from the other 5 or do we no lynch for the day??

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Post Post #5390 (isolation #246) » Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:42 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 5383, Randomnamechange wrote:If we go with plan A I will either ascetize or protect MoI


??? Protect is a plausible idea. Ascetize is a horrible move! The whole idea is to confirm his alignment, so why the heck would you want us not to??

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Post Post #5391 (isolation #247) » Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:46 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 5387, MagnaofIllusion wrote:Do you think TWIE is either scum or lying about the framer potential for scum?


Geez! I totally forgot about the framer. I got a bit too excited with the no-kill and my mind leaped forward a notch or two.

And, NO. TWIE is town in my book.

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Post Post #5392 (isolation #248) » Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:48 am

Post by Almost50 »

OK, guys. Do as you see fit. I need to rethink everything over again.

For now:

UNVOTE:

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Post Post #5405 (isolation #249) » Sat Apr 30, 2016 3:28 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 5404, dramonic wrote:Thor665 (1337): TWIE


:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Post Post #5409 (isolation #250) » Sun May 01, 2016 4:02 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 5379, Almost50 wrote:Obviously, this town likes to go in circles dwelling on fluff until the very last hour! Well, I can't really complain as it did work in our favour TWICE thus far. I'm just a little worried we might be pushing our luck too far and could turn an almost guaranteed town win into a mess.


59 hours later, this is the 30th post added. That is an average of 3 posts per player over a 60 hours span!! Is that the way we really want to play this out??

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Post Post #5412 (isolation #251) » Sun May 01, 2016 6:53 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 5410, Thor665 wrote:Maybe you should put your vote in play so there's something new to talk about rather than complaining that a bunch of 'meh' posts didn't generate reactions?


Put my vote on whom? The town hasn't even decided on a couple or even 3 players for a lynch pool to pick from. My own vote was on random and it wasn't going anywhere, so I pulled it and asked for suggestions from FOUR players, and only one of them responded. Two of them even are not currently voting. It does feel like a game of roulette at the moment. Just spin the wheel and wherever the ball lands that's where one votes!!!

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Post Post #5416 (isolation #252) » Sun May 01, 2016 8:50 am

Post by Almost50 »

I'll tell you all what: When I see 4 votes on one wagon I'll be the fifth. (Or -if you like) I'll just hammer. Left to my own devices I'd lynch randomidget, but that's not going to happen so make up your minds and pile up on someone you think is a good lynch.

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Post Post #5419 (isolation #253) » Sun May 01, 2016 10:31 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 5417, Thor665 wrote:
In post 5416, Almost50 wrote:I'll tell you all what: When I see 4 votes on one wagon I'll be the fifth. (Or -if you like) I'll just hammer. Left to my own devices I'd lynch randomidget, but that's not going to happen so make up your minds and pile up on someone you think is a good lynch.

So random is your strongest scum read, and you're okay with lynching anyone else in the game?


No, I'm NOT OK with lynching anyone else, but I'm no king maker, so I can't stop it either. A lynch is better than No Lynch, so I would have to go with the town even if I was not convinced myself. That's how the game goes.

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Post Post #5420 (isolation #254) » Sun May 01, 2016 10:31 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 5418, Nahdia wrote:i lied :(


???

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Post Post #5428 (isolation #255) » Sun May 01, 2016 11:39 pm

Post by Almost50 »

In post 5424, Thor665 wrote:And, oh wow, magically Heat is an option to lynch today


Erm, um.. WHAT?? Where did I specify HEAT as an option today? I said I'd follow the majority, and right now there are 4 players with votes on them, 2 with 2 votes and 2 with 1 vote.

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Post Post #5429 (isolation #256) » Sun May 01, 2016 11:44 pm

Post by Almost50 »

OH, WOW! So, Wisdom is on KC, KC is on Heat, TWIE is on Thor, and Nahdia is flirting with the idea of voting MoI. Considering my own lean to vote random that's a hell of a situation. Not TWO are after the same target!!

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Post Post #5438 (isolation #257) » Mon May 02, 2016 4:47 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 5435, MagnaofIllusion wrote:Seriously look at this post-game commentary from Evolution –

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=65750&start=1750


Hmmm... and you really couldn't have provided that link earlier??? I thought that was Heat's meta as both alignments (since I've never before played with him and many players didn't feel too comfy in voting him).

VOTE: Heat

Now I feel much more comfortable casting my vote there!

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Post Post #5490 (isolation #258) » Tue May 03, 2016 1:49 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 5487, Firebringer wrote:A lynch at this point would really do some of this apathy some good.


Then switch your vote and get it done with!

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Post Post #5506 (isolation #259) » Tue May 03, 2016 7:24 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 5502, Heat wrote:imo random looks the worst on my wagon.


And now I'm starting to both get pissed and lose faith is everyone!!

I spent half of the day voting randomidget on my own. Nobody seemed willing to even consider it. NOW, Nahdia has brought back her suspicion on him and then you say this!!

I will ask for the last time: Does anybody think a randomidget lynch is a good idea or not? No maybes and no inbetweens, please. Just a simple yes or no!

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Post Post #5509 (isolation #260) » Tue May 03, 2016 11:03 am

Post by Almost50 »



:lol: :lol: :lol:

Now THIS is the most sincere post I've read in this game!!!

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Post Post #5515 (isolation #261) » Wed May 04, 2016 2:18 am

Post by Almost50 »

So...

Wisdom, Thor and -obviously- random himself are a firm NO

Me: Yes

Heat, KC and probably Nahdia are MAYBE

MoI, FB & TWIE have not responded!!

Let me remind you of this:

Spiff had random as Null.
EP had him is "Go ahead and lynch"
SC (flipped scum) had him as a scum lean but didn't put him in his 3 lunch-pool
MoI earlier had him as a scum lean
beeboy (Thor's predecessor) had him in the "I don't know"
Nahdia had him as confirmed scum at one point
Wisdom once said he was a "Good lynch"

Now I want to know why some of you guys have changed their stance or are being reluctant to this particular lynch!

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Post Post #5549 (isolation #262) » Thu May 05, 2016 6:04 am

Post by Almost50 »

More to it:

In post 5505, dramonic wrote:Heat (5): Thor665, MoI, Klingoncelt, Almost50, randomidget


In post 5547, dramonic wrote:Heat (4): Thor665, MoI, Klingoncelt, Almost50, randomidget


Now who's a day vote stealer?? Whose vote did they steal? And why?

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Post Post #5565 (isolation #263) » Thu May 05, 2016 8:18 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 5551, Wisdom wrote:@Almost Obviously TWIE. Check the votes on Thor too.


So he can do both?? I mean, TWO simultaneous day actions for the same player??

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Post Post #5567 (isolation #264) » Thu May 05, 2016 8:30 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 5562, TheWayItEnds wrote:me.

magnas

to fuck with him.


:lol:

OK... THIS lone confirms you as town, and -subsequently- Wisdom must be town. I had started to worry about Wis bc of his relentless push on KC tbh. I'm glad it turns out to be him being a bad town player rather than scum (I do have a reason to be glad over this finding in particular).

So... does this mean you implicitly support a KC lynch over a Heat lynch?? Cuz now I see Nahdia has finally decided to vote, and if you also agree then I will move my vote (that would be 3 of the 4 people I asked for their advice. Naturally KC is the one who doesn't agree).

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Post Post #5568 (isolation #265) » Thu May 05, 2016 8:30 am

Post by Almost50 »

*this (A)lone

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Post Post #5574 (isolation #266) » Thu May 05, 2016 9:11 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 5569, Heat wrote:how does it confirm him as town


I simply can't see scum talking this way. It's soooo "I don't give a damn" kind of phrasing!

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Post Post #5575 (isolation #267) » Thu May 05, 2016 9:17 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 5572, Wisdom wrote:because I don't have any opinions of my own.


This is a misrep. I do and I think everybody knows where I stand. I do NOT like the idea of lynching either of KC or Heat. However, I'm all alone, and if I opt not to vote either it will only make it more difficult for the town to get a lynch I suppose. Would you rather a no lynch?? Because I don't!

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Post Post #5579 (isolation #268) » Thu May 05, 2016 9:28 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 5573, Wisdom wrote:Also, you do realize I've been right about all three mafia so far, right? What have you done?


1- I was first to call out DS. I only left bc Spiff wanted me to vote my 2nd suspect (EP), and then he (Spiff) left me all alone on that wagon and switched to MY #1.

2- I've been busy keeping my top town reads alive! I protected FJ on N1, and with the confusion about her redirection thing I misunderstood and thought I was redirected to a random target. It didn't matter much to learn the truth later bc I have been protecting YOU ever since! So, that's what I've been doing and that IS why I'm happy to restore my faith in you. I would've felt like an complete schmuck if it turned out to be I was protecting scum for 3 straight nights!

P-edit: Yes I do! I believe her. Call it a gut feeling. Call it a skewed manner of thinking. Call it bad logic. You may call it whatever you like, but the fact is KC did catch scum and I don't care if she didn't push DS over Max bc I myself did propose we go for Max first bc he was a member of the council.

I'm like 90% sure KC will flip green. The only thing we will have achieved is come back tomorrow with this same situation where we are moving in circles and every single person have their own view where no 3 people can agree on one prime suspect!

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Post Post #5581 (isolation #269) » Thu May 05, 2016 9:39 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 5577, Nahdia wrote:A50 I'm with you on disliking lynching Heat or KC on principle but I'm not sure who else I'd lynch. I mean I could vote random but i'm not so certain on him that I'd strongarm the town into it.


So you do understand my dilemma. I'm only voting Heat bc I prefer his flip over KC's, but NOT bc I want him dead to begin with. If I give in to my own inner voices I'd go for the WORST possible option, which is NOT VOTING! Good luck to you all getting a lynch if I opt to do that. I'm only hoping with either claimed cops flipping that the town will open up their eyes and see how this is an awful way of playing it out. I'm sure scum will be rejoicing over the lynching of either of the cops, but if I had to guess I think they're not actively pushing on them either.

With a KC (town!)flip it's bound to backfire on Wisdom now. If KC IS scum then I would hang my head in shame and probably be sheeping Wis for the rest of the game, but I sincerely highly suspect KC will flip town. I don't see her being scum the way she talks either here or on the council thread.

Put another way: Ask me to come up with a case against each of the other 9 players alive. After that, ask me to read my own cases one by one and see which of them convinces ME (I'm not talking about how anyone else would feel about the. I'm talking about a case made by me that will still convince me). The ONLY one I could come up with is the one against random. Now others are not convinced, so I can't drive that one home. I have to compromise bc I don't have the power to see things going my way. That's why I turned to you (the 4 I trust most) for advice. Too bad it looks like 3 are going against one of the four. I don't know what else to say or do. :neutral:

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Post Post #5583 (isolation #270) » Thu May 05, 2016 9:59 am

Post by Almost50 »

@Wis:

Ok, I get that you're fully convinced that she IS scum. Let's wait and see.

VOTE: Klingoncelt

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Post Post #5596 (isolation #271) » Fri May 06, 2016 7:00 am

Post by Almost50 »

I suppose it's TWIE's call by now. He can vote KC to end the day, or he can vote Heat and give us the time to place the hammer. He can also place his 2 votes on random, in which case I (for sure) will vote there, and wait for 2 of Nahdia, KC & Heat to finish the job.

Which one out of the 3 would you like to lynch, TWIE?

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Post Post #5597 (isolation #272) » Fri May 06, 2016 7:01 am

Post by Almost50 »

Actually, we would need all of them to vote random. I forgot MoI is voteless :(

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Post Post #5687 (isolation #273) » Sat May 07, 2016 4:00 am

Post by Almost50 »

Reminder: 14 hours to lynch! (for the 3rd time in this game!! AMAZING!)

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Post Post #5716 (isolation #274) » Sat May 07, 2016 11:43 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 2483, dramonic wrote:
EverImminentIndolence,
Uriel
, was killed Day 2!

Image


Day 2 may now resume!
It is 10 to lynch!
Deadline is in 15 days!
@Thor:

I think the above turns your whole argument into dust. The game did start with a Mafia Cop!

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Post Post #5717 (isolation #275) » Sat May 07, 2016 11:45 am

Post by Almost50 »

I meant your argument regarding your setup speculation. I do get your other points though.

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Post Post #5725 (isolation #276) » Tue May 10, 2016 3:37 pm

Post by Almost50 »

In post 5723, Wisdom wrote:Magna is town.
Not sure if you should've said that aloud though! I don't think he was going to be the lynch target of the day anyway, so maybe you should've waited to see who "tries" to push him before you announce it. *Shrug*
In post 5724, Nahdia wrote:Cool. Thoughts as of rn:

{A50, Wisdom, Magna}
{Thor, Firebringer}
{Heat, randomidget}

Waiting on results from
Magna (if he checked at all)
Firebringer
Heat
Put your name instead of mine and move Heat "half a tier" higher and you've got my own reads.

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Post Post #5726 (isolation #277) » Tue May 10, 2016 3:51 pm

Post by Almost50 »

Now let me be speculative:

I'll be voting random and he'll be voting me back. MoI will be on Heat and Heat will be on either MoI or Thor. I don't know where Thor stands, so I'll skip that one.

This Leave Nahdia (random or Heat), Wisdom (probably random if his old read list still stands, as everyone else had a "We're not lynching" remark attached to their name), and finally FB whom is being as obscure as Thor is regarding their reads.

One more point FOR Heat is TWIE practically saved him from the lynch yesterday and forced the lynch of KC instead. I don't see Heat killing TWIE unless he thought TWIE would make a 180 degree flip on his reads overnight.

But I do agree we should wait for MoI, Heat & FB investigation results to give us more solid info before we start voting.

So, unless one of them clears random you may consider my vote on him in spirit. Otherwise, I really don't know who to suspect, let alone vote.

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Post Post #5728 (isolation #278) » Tue May 10, 2016 4:36 pm

Post by Almost50 »

Hmmm.. that could be the case, but then why did he not kill on D1, D2 or D5?? That's assuming he did kill Nos on D3 and shot on MoI on D4.

Also that would mean we still have a loose Mafia member (doing the night kills), so we're looking for TWO scum alive. Hmmm.. 4 Mafia + 3 stand-alone scum = 7 scum players out of 21?? Let me go check the specific role cards and get back to you on this.

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Post Post #5729 (isolation #279) » Tue May 10, 2016 4:56 pm

Post by Almost50 »

OK.. ZZZX could not kill from the beginning, but he could "earn" killing shot with his 1st active ability (which could also have been used as an investigative utility tom identify killers of ANY alignment).
Spoiler:
OUCH! Now that I reread that role I see he could've used his "guesses" 6 times on D1, so -theoretically speaking- could've earned up to six shots if he was "lottery winning lucky" :P


3 Mafia flipped, so I'm assuming that counts for ONE kill, and KC could kill TOWN players as well.

and Nos was TOWN who could kill. FJ/RJ had an even night kill, and Spiff had a conditional killing ability. EP also had that ability to turn someone into a bomb (which is too much firepower for the town if you ask me). Now add the conditional kill of MoI (presumably every even night if he had used that from the beginning with the intention of killing people) and it does look like town had way too much firepower to begin with.

The question though is why did/are scum not using their kills?? I guess we were outstandingly lucky lynching ZZZX on D1 (his inactivity helped lots! I would've hated to see that role landed by one of the more active players!!)

AM I rambling? Yes, I think I am. I need to get some sleep. Somebody remind me to try and "guess" who shot whom starting N1 to try and figure out if we have one or two killers still, and attempt to determine who might or might not be a killer with some degree of certainty. (I believe I might need someone's help so as not to accidentally overlook something and build on it only to be pointed out to what I've missed after having gone through the whole process.)

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Post Post #5739 (isolation #280) » Wed May 11, 2016 4:17 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 5735, MagnaofIllusion wrote:Of course you could try to suggest I was lying about it. Are you?
No. My question was an attempt to look for an explanation rather than pointing a finger on anyone just yet.

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Post Post #5745 (isolation #281) » Wed May 11, 2016 6:37 am

Post by Almost50 »

Let's try this:

List of killing roles:

ZZZX (conditional. Lynched on D1)
Max/DS/SC (factional kill)
Spiff (both actives combined)
Nos (direct kill)
EP (make bomb)
RJ (even nights)
KC (kills town only)
MoI (disregarded as no kills occurred bc of it)
??? (remaining Mafia)
??? (remaining 3rd party)

I tried to consider the one remaining Mafia/3P to be one player but it didn't work as either alignment. Here's how I thought it out:

- I had assumed the remaining Mafia would lose their day killing ability if they were the last one, but then that doesn't explain Heat's claim, which in turn lead me to suspect Heat. However, heat would not shoot TWIE of all living players. Does anyone still has a redirection ability AND did they redirect anyone's action (or any action ON someone) to TWIE??

- The answer to the first part is obviously “no”, as the redirector “would” have claimed their action already and we would have a guilty on our hands. Unless -of course- the redirector is scum themselves and they now know who the other scum is but want to use their redirection to kill more other town players before they take the other scum out, and that particular redirector can either use the redirection ability OR kill, but not both.

- The answer to the 2nd part is also likely “no” because they “should” have also claimed so we know 2 things:
(1) TWIE was not the intended NK, and (2) The original target is clear (i.e. confirmed town).

- Then let's assume the remaining scum is NOT Mafia, so it makes sense they would kill TWIE, but I don't see them leaving the investigatives alive unless they're ascetic or GF-like (i.e. return favourable investigation results). If that is the case though, then it makes no sense to have a specific investigator for them. WAIT! THIS COULD BE IT!

We had a specific MAFIA investigator, and we have a 3rd party investigator in MoI. Wisdom is a cover/general town/not town (justified by the enormous firepower in the game) and even KC is a 2nd backup (although not town-aligned). Heat's role maybe designed to catch a specific 3rd party that would return an innocent to MoI/Wisdom still and that one may (or may not) have been vulnerable to KC's kills. (appearing town and dying as town would to KC's active).

So this is one possibility: We have one remaining 3P who can only be caught by Heat. THIS or we do have 1 Mafia + 1 3P alive still.

Following up with the first proposition first, I will be trying to figure out who killed whom next. I just need you to point out flaws (if any) in this very proposition. Please do NOT use “I don't think” arguments though. I want conclusive evidence that this is not the case if you can come up with some.

Thank you.

P.S. Waiting on the 2nd part (figuring out who shot whom and why) until discussion is over regarding the validity of the possibility itself.

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Post Post #5747 (isolation #282) » Wed May 11, 2016 7:53 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 5746, Wisdom wrote:What about the N4 kill though? Everyone non-mafia was blocked, therefore there must be another mafia alive who killed BRO. Unless that 3p is also roleblock-immune in addition to investigative-immune?
That's a VERY GOOD point. As you may have noticed I started up with "I tried to consider the one remaining Mafia/3P to be one player but it didn't work as either alignment." and it was THAT that voided the possibility on just one 3P and no Mafia remaining.

However, somewhere down the road while I was composing the post I suddenly couldn't remember why that possibility wasn't valid! So, THANK YOU for reminding me.

OK. Final conclusion then is WE HAVE TWO SCUM LEFT. One is a Mafioso, the other is "Chaos"?? The question now is which of them is not killing and why?

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Post Post #5760 (isolation #283) » Wed May 11, 2016 8:58 am

Post by Almost50 »

What wrong with you people?? What's with the "I don't care" attitude? The game wasn't designed for VT play (otherwise, the mod WOULD have included a couple of powerless roles if they saw fit).

Investigative roles are supposed to feed us with info. We should get a guilty or a clear on someone or another. *Sigh*

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Post Post #5766 (isolation #284) » Wed May 11, 2016 10:54 am

Post by Almost50 »

I tried to do a break down of the kills and it got me nowhere. I'll put it in the spoiler in case anyone would like to review it.
Spoiler:
Very well. On N1; the EII kill was obviously the Mafia. KC targeted DS (either with an investigation or even with her Silent Madness as she would still know he's not town since he didn't die). None of Spiff, Nos or EP claimed anything to do with Itlepop's death though, so that's “Chaos” (I'll be using this name to refer to the remaining 3rd party).

On N2; DS was shot by Nos. FJ/RJ were blocked, (and so was Heat). EP made Spiff a bomb, but KC's “Second Wind” saved her as she targeted Spiff. But THAT means we have a kill missing as neither of the two was from the Mafia NOR Chaos!!

Another alternative is DS also shot Spiff (double kill) and Nos was day shot by Chaos. (This would be incredibly weird, as both Spiff's & DS' deaths were double shots).

On N3 nobody died. A shot was taken on MoI (presumably by Chaos). Now who did the Mafia shoot???

On N4 everyone was blocked already, except for the one remaining Mafioso, so BRO was shot by them.

On N5 TWIE dies, so there's still another missing kill. We don't even know if that was the Mafia or Chaos kill.


P-Edit: I will.

VOTE: randomidget <= L-1

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Post Post #5767 (isolation #285) » Wed May 11, 2016 10:58 am

Post by Almost50 »

@random:

Whether you're Mafia or Chaos, you've lost. It would be nice though if you told us who you targeted on specific nights, just for the kicks and the good spirit.

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Post Post #5779 (isolation #286) » Thu May 12, 2016 1:19 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 5778, Randomnamechange wrote:All were protects except MoI which was ascetize to non-kills.
OK, my question here has nothing to do with evaluating my read on you. I'm just wondering why you ascetized MoI (or intended to) rather than protect him??

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Post Post #5807 (isolation #287) » Fri May 13, 2016 8:14 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 5806, Firebringer wrote:I am trying to compete but for some reason nobody wants to lynch me
Erm.. are you trying to say something?? Does your win con require that you get lynched to win or something?? And (if) so, why'd you wait this long to out it?? Or am I completely missing the point of the quote??

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Post Post #5823 (isolation #288) » Fri May 13, 2016 10:38 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 5822, Firebringer wrote:If he isn't, I take zero of the blame.
If he is scum, I take zero of the credit.
'
Thats how I roll.
Shit! This and the few recent posts of FB scare me. I'm trying to tell myself he's trolling though. Nobody (read: no SCUM) could be this bold in showing their sarcasm (unless we've been had and the game is already over!!!)

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Post Post #5826 (isolation #289) » Fri May 13, 2016 10:45 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 5824, Wisdom wrote:I think I'll have an easy time when I roll scum against you

Ha ha ha! :lol:

OK.. I'm putting that down on my notes on players' meta. :P

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Post Post #5850 (isolation #290) » Sat May 14, 2016 2:45 am

Post by Almost50 »

So, where is the mod?

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Post Post #5852 (isolation #291) » Tue May 17, 2016 1:21 am

Post by Almost50 »

Yaaaay! We're BACK!

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Post Post #5906 (isolation #292) » Fri May 20, 2016 9:57 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 5865, Nahdia wrote:Once again my doc save didn't work because of shots shenanigans...

What's even the point of a doc >_>
It is my understanding that you were protecting MoI; in which case you did succeed. Thor had this "cool" idea to submit our daykill (in case the NK failed) early enough though.

GG all. I enjoyed it very much, and -after 6 straight losses as town- my first win as scum is a fair compensation. :P

P-edit:

@SC: Coming from you that's a very nice compliment. Ranger is my idol as town, but YOU sir are my idol as scum!! :lol:

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Post Post #5908 (isolation #293) » Fri May 20, 2016 9:58 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 5869, SirCakez wrote:Hilarious that the DDO slot was scum after all. Both deadline lurker wagons Day 1 were on scum gg.
THAT was turning point in the game. I did everything I could to redirect the lynch in hopes one of the DDO duo would be back or they sub-out. If they got lynched on D1 it would have confirmed our existence (Chaos) to say the least, and many things could've gone differently.

Many thanks to Wisdom (a great tactician), beeboy (never easy to read) and Thor (experience does count) for their outstanding play. (I'd have to watch out for you guys though when we meet in the future, for -honestly- it'd be hard for me to have any of you pegged).

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Post Post #5925 (isolation #294) » Fri May 20, 2016 10:34 am

Post by Almost50 »

I'm keeping track of my games for reference. This game was HILARIOUS for those who like to plan ahead. I mean, read your card and work out a plan (it didn't work too well with me on Borderlands).

The reason we kept both Heat and Kling alive is: (a) I was immune to their action, (b) Wisdom was under my protection all game, and (c) DDO/beeboy/Thor were of the class Assist, so the first action on them was redirected. We were practically all immune to the council actions on us (well, except if Max was to shoot Wis...)

But the game was actually pretty balanced if only (1) we didn't get lucky enough as to lynch ZZZX on D1, and (2) DS didn't act so scummy on D1 to warrant an investigation on him. Once we eliminated these 3 it started to roll in our favour, but we still had to pick our targets carefully (that was mainly Wis' in command).

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Post Post #5934 (isolation #295) » Fri May 20, 2016 11:19 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 5930, Wisdom wrote:Though the point in multiball is that the scumteams also take each other out and that helps the unbalanced town out.
That's my point. The game was tilted our way bc we eliminated ZZZX before he could do anything, then we outed two of the Mafia members on D2, so one got lynched and one got shot by the Vig.

One more thing: Nos should have NEVER claimed. That also hurt the town bc I had to shoot him on the spot.

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Post Post #5971 (isolation #296) » Sat May 21, 2016 3:29 am

Post by Almost50 »

*LOL*
I've just went through the Mafia QT. Amazing how they all played to our benefit consistently! I've never been luckier in my life!

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