kuribo in Wonderland - [Game Over]

[Cephrir]

Hello please don't injure me I'm here because I make bad life choices

Please don't hammer anyone until I get to read the thread, I see that Nacho getting killed is a relevant part of the discussion and I definitely want to determine how OK with that I am before it occurs.

also i'm here to lynch good players so they'll sign up for my game

[Cephrir]

Yeah I've gathered that much

I am likely to be opposed to killing Nacho day 1 on principle, or at least that's my baseline opinion before actually reading to see how scummy he is.

I'll read soon.

[Cephrir]

I will attempt to limit the degree to which my catch up posts are super annoying by keeping as much as I can in my head.

I think that hypoing the results is probably the way to go if that's how we want to do things. I'm not sure that's the way that we want to do things.

Come on Nacho, take a stand!

The real question: can I be fucked to fake cop results?
Right now, probably not. Tomorrow, sure.

I don't understand this post.

I might just be half asleep, but I had a REALLY hard time just now following his progression from "I don't know Fate so I don't trust him to be king," to "I found Fate's platform reasonable, I want him to be king," and back to "Katsuki should be king."

I was thinking Brian was town, but this fits my experience as well. However, I pretty frequently cannot be fucked to follow things like that due to limited attention span.

Wtf is hypo copping

cops claim results
non-cops make up results and claim those

Never shoot Antihero either

What on earth was so town about anything Anti had done up to this point? And yes, I know he's me.

dz post_id=7934775 time=1463812194 user_id=15399 post_num=323]

heres the thing


it's not enough to know what your kinda-sorta-reads are


we need to know WHY you have those reads

if it's just gut or whatever, say so, but "oh i'm not getting into it" and "oh, i can't explain it"

if you want to help, then help, but tossing out fence-sitty platitudes isn't helping the rest of us

Thank you for giving me tips. I will keep your advice in mind when giving reads in the future. I apologise for being so incompetent - please don't think ill of me because I am not explaining reads like others are.

A) I think everyone has gotten all up in Godz's grill basically for being a new player and kind of think he is town
B) But wow this is such a bizarre reaction.

Currently, my top suspects are SirCakez and implosion. The latter I suspect might just be a tonally weird person who doesn't post the way I would post. I expect these scumreads to change early and often.

[Cephrir]

dz post_id=7934841 time=1463814751 user_id=15399 post_num=343]"I have a could shots in mind" "Guess who" "It's zakk"

Yeah, I suppose if you squint, that could be interpreted as a scum read. My bad. You've given a read. Two if we count spiffeh. Now three if we count me. Zero town reads and zero explanations (wait, isn't it unhelpful to do that?) and, more to the point, zero scum hunting effort. If I'm being really, really, really generous, "does he always act like this?" is maybe scum hunting? Not really, though. So still, no.

You go off about how I'm not being helpful and shit. Where's your fucking explanations? You've been asked and refused to elaborate. Why are you "spamming" and "shitposting"?

dz post_id=7934850 time=1463815135 user_id=15399 post_num=345]Oh, actually, you did ask KittyMo why he thinks Skybird is a scum. Technically that could be construed as scum hunting, too. I guess it's not fair to say zero.

I think it's best to rephrase: the amount of scum hunting and the reads you've given is so pitiful in comparison to the amount of posts you've made that have nothing to do with finding scum that I think it's more likely you're not fighting for justice than not.

And now we've gone from weirdly apologetic to weirdly aggressive. I am not really sure what to do with this and will probably not post about it for a while.

[Cephrir]

zakk is another good candidate for town.

Why? I'm viewing his contributions so far as null.

Zakk's posting feels devoid of content but to me it's more like the free and casual posting one makes when they know they're town

Zakk posts like that as scum though Kuribo. I was just scum with him in Killer Instinct and he posted similarly.

A lot of my reason was the same as kuribo's. In particular his "I'm willing to hammer katsuki." The only other thing was the timing of his godz townread. But actually looking back I'm willing to drop him as a townread in light of this.

zakk is another good candidate for town.

Do you have any scumreads?

I just gave spiffeh as one at the bottom of the previous page.

I also think kuribo is a decent scum candidate. I'm still not sure what to make of some of the inconsistencies in attitude he's shown (there's the one Fate mentioned, and one other that I don't remember atm). His apparent uncertainty as to whether to take the game seriously or HUEUEUEYAHIEO reads as potentially scum trying to gauge what kind of game it's going to be or generally just being self-conscious.

I think that is the opposite of scummy.

Nacho I'm finding it very difficult to buy that you are engaging Godz like this to make him a more electable King.

Meh.

I assume you are all going to make something out of Nacho's fixation on Godz. I don't really mind it. I believe I also saw someone insinuating they are scumbuddies, and to them I say I believe you're not attributing enough complexity to mafia players. People seem to have trouble figuring out the level of complexity with which scum actually play because I constantly find myself correcting people on this in both directions. I'm not saying they cannot be scumbuddies, only that this isn't really a fantastic reason for thinking so.

I think Godz is town. I think a newish scum would most likely not have made Nacho do this for three pages and would have let the point drop or admit he had a point somewhere instead of continuing to be stubborn, among other things.

[Cephrir]

dz post_id=7943949 time=1464127236 user_id=15399 post_num=1164]I am not a newbie. I'll have you know this isn't my first game on site, man-with-Pumbaa-avatar.

You'll stop being a newbie when you stop posting like a newbie.

[Cephrir]

Currently, my top suspects are SirCakez

oh boy I'm excited to hear this one

You probably won't have to.

[Cephrir]

Page 25ish and realizing that my top townread has expressed a scumread on my only at all serious scumread.

VOTE: KittyMo

[Cephrir]

indicate to me a townie who's trying to figure out the game and can't put their finger on why they feel certain ways about people. It does not read to me as scum trying to fake reads or trying to look like they're doing things. It looks like a window into an actual thought process that's going on.

I'm not really seeing what you're seeing here; I disagree pretty strongly that it was a window into Godz's thought process because there wasn't a thought process to be had, and I have seen scum say that they had reads that they couldn't explain before (and it was early enough in the game where people weren't really likely to rip on him all that much), and am not sure how that post is particularly far removed from that.

Nacho devotes multiple posts to tearing down a lot of Godz arguments for Anti!scum, including the one quoted here where he even implies he's a little scummy, but when I ask him why he's engaging in this conversation, it's says it's because he thinks Godz is town and wants him to recognize that Anti is town??

I don't really get that impression from their interaction

Do you really believe that scum-Antihero needs help tearing down those arguments? They were not particularly good. In addition, they were from a player who was never especially likely to have their voice heard in a star studded playerlist.

We'll figure out who we want lynched and ask gaiden to perform that lynch. We elect gaiden, who will execute the lynch.

If anyone wants to persist with votes on players of unknown alignment who will not specify a lynch target, they should explain why.

Gaiden king is very, very good.

I'm actually fairly OK with this.

Wanting to make Godz a more electable king is complete bullshit

The more competent kings a town has, the better Town's chances of winning.

And you think arguing Godz down from one lynch will make him a competent king how, precisely?

Cakez might be scum actually

His overconfidence and general "I'm right" attitude is off putting and something I haven't seen to this extent in his town game

I usually agree with this line of thought, but I usually turn out to be wrong about it, so I've stopped expecting rationality.

zakk+nacho seems possible.

Why?

Anyone that executes hiplop will feel my wrath tomorrow

You should really cool it on the strength of your opinions. It is silly. You've already moved several players from never lynches to ???s, IIRC, this game.

Forgot zakk was v/la. I think I saw that in activity overview at some point.

Self conscious about your post count?

In terms of the opinions thing:
People have said they're in favor of having fun with it. People have said they're in favor of taking it very seriously.
People have said they're in favor of pseudo-votes. People have said they're against it.
People have said the king should be a completely empty vessel. People have said that potential kings should state their execution targets and then we effectively vote on those targets. People have declined either of these.
Etc.

I didn't know that once X number of strategies have been suggested no more could be suggested. I guess I've been playing mafia wrong.

On review, I'm doubly certain that hero(s) exist. The best course is to choose a victim and elect a king to execute them in some order.

Anyone supporting the current "elect someone who we think is town and let them do whatever" is a fool, or is scum who believes that it is unlikely that the current candidates will lynch a partner.

The only objection that makes any sense is a logistical one, but that only exists because of a lack of support, which should be viewed as extremely suspicious.

surprisingly you being "doubly certain that hero(s) exist" does not convince me!

In fact, on my own review, I've actually found that there's almost certainly a hidden mechanic in the game where the previously elected king gets a free vig shot at night regardless of their alignment. Oh, and another one where scum can't target them for the nk that night.

This seems pretty obtuse. Think for four seconds.

Gaiden is in my bottom three of the LAST people I'd want to see a gun handed to

i prefer to think of it as an "executioner's ax"
or you can think of me as a guillotine

if i were somehow unfortunately elected king, my first act would be to send you straight to hell

I'm upset that I'm no longer going to be able to vote you for king unless your opinions change. I was planning to.

Oh. Re: KittyMo

I didn't like that on at least two occasions, she's already put out an excuse for why she won't be posting much. First real life stuff (okay, fair enough) but then also the "toxic playerlist" which as I pointed out, was mostly set in stone when she signed up for it. Her reads have been vague (is she keeping up?) and she asks questions that seem to go nowhere. Regarding her reads, she says she's having trouble reading this player list, and fine if that's the case, but it could just as easily be that she has too many people reading each other as town. (ie, the same problem I had in Gumball)

I don't think absence from a player I didn't expect volume from in the first place is a scumtell. She also explained already why she wasn't especially expecting toxicity.

I retract my zakk townread

That's nice.

No, I was super happy with katsuki or fate being taken out by a hero. I just don't have enough confidence in their being town to justify voting them if they're not going to specify their lynch.

like this post needs to be highlighted:

I was super happy with fate or katsuki dying to the hero that I have a hard on for.

2. but I don't think they're town enough to vote so that they can die to a hero and I can't trust them when they won't specify their lynch

First of all Kagami is competent enough to know WHY katsuki and I won't specify our lynch. Its nto a scum move in any sense, scum will just have a lynchpool of mislynch targets and get their fucking dirty work done

Katsuki and I are always secretive about our reads and its better to keep scum on their toes this way.

Kagami is said scum unwilling to give control of the lynch to competent players who can't be read (scum are always trying to read town too)

If Nacho flips town Kagami dies no questions asked. I don't care how many nightkills I eat

Kagami will be the next lynch if nacho flips town.

Frankly, I don't understand exactly why you won't specify your lynch targets, so it can't be that obvious. You also seem to be attributing a lot of level-zero scum play to Kagami, who might be literally the last player on Mafiascum from whom I would expect to see level-zero scum play.

kagami scum wants a king for someone who is pretty town and has a strong meta connection with so that he can pull all the strings.

Like

Kagami is blatantly manipulating things

and the dissonance within because the narrative of "oh shit theres a hero so we gotta play around it"

and

"but I wnat to elect an obvtown read who I can trust to play by my rules"

is so blaringly obvious that it needs to be full of holes.

I believe it was established that Gaiden was supposed to obey the will of the town.

Also, if we really want to turn this into not-kingmaker, we could institute a rule of "electing X king is a vote for the player below them in the playerlist and all kings must shoot the player directly below them on the playerlist."

[Cephrir]

I'm pretty sure he meant his top townread (someone else) has a scumread on Kitty, who is also his only serious scumread

No. I was saying I was excited about a hypothetical Queen KittyMo killing implosion.

I do realize that she is not going to be elected, though. I also wanted to remove my vote from wherever it currently was.

[Cephrir]

I honestly think nacho is obvtown.

[Cephrir]

You've been talking about your reads and who you want executed though. Kats hasn't.

If you can't figure out from my ISO an inkling of who I may execute then you shouldn't be playing.

I tried this as an exercise and I have absolutely no idea. You've expressed like maybe half a scumread ever.

[Cephrir]

Also, the witty retort you'll give to that about how much I suck won't be particularly innovative or witty.

[Cephrir]

Fate, let's imagine the spiffeh wagon arose because scum was worried that you or katsuki or kuribo would kill a partner. Who is the partner who was in danger?

Btw, fate, you're not going to be king.

Spiffeh probably isn't either unless he wants to compromise on targets, which he should probably be doing right now to make it awkward for any scum on his wagon to move if his new choice is scum.

What are you doing

There are outstanding questions for you that I want to see answered. What are you doing right now and why are you doing it, because I'm totally lost there.

Probably brian. i'm giving dgb a pass cause vla and i know how hard those are to come back from.
i might be interested in killing abr.

What happened to the will of the people?

Top three scum are Godz, zakk and ABR
-Godz looks very scummy for his push on Anti and assorted other posting that I outlined in 1087.
-Zakk has loads of bizarre and scummy posts with next to no actual scumhunting, for example his desire to hammer Kats in 235, his expression of not caring in 238, a random unexplained Godz townread in 297, and his basically hand waving of game events in 962.
-I've seen ABR's town game in Saga Frontier and Song of Ice and Fire uPick and this is

definitely not it

. What little he's posted has been vague and unexplained. I know he's capable of more.

How does the third item on your list merit the word "definitely"?

dz post_id=7942627 time=1464100732 user_id=15399 post_num=1094]

Btw, fate, you're not going to be king.

I don't really see how you're going to stop it, though.

why were you voting for fate, cakez? Katsuki was likely going to lynch godz, iirc.

Kastuki was never going to shoot me. Other than the fact that I don't think he has the guts to do it even if he's scum, it would be inconsistent with how he's supposedly been reading me for the entire game, barring very recently where he seems to imply he thinks I'm doing things I'd do as scum.

You have absolutely no idea which players are influential and/or have guts and/or about the amount of guts it would take to shoot you. Please stop guessing.

[Cephrir]

Axel had a smattering of posting in the 100s and 200s with no content (just pure setup discussion). He then starts actual content in 656. This is quite reminiscent of the most recent game I found that he's completed in which he spends his first two posts on setup discussion, and then two days later starts giving content. He was scum in that game. I don't see this to the same extent in the first town-game I see, where he gives content (i.e. opinions on claims or calling something that people were calling scummy null) early on. That kind of behavior of substituting spec for content is also a bit suspect a priori.

Not much else really makes me feel that strongly. His initial reads post is kinda bad (saying that anyone calling godz vs anti tvt is suspect is, imo, bad - I can't imagine much automatic scum motivation for calling it tvt although I guess it's increased if one of them is scum but I'm still pretty sure neither of them is scum).

He's likely scum.

This case is awful.

[Cephrir]

Zakk going VLA immediately after coming back from one makes my teeth itch. Just remember: even if he's telling the truth about personal problems, it doesn't necessarily make him town. I liked his early posting but some of that has been marred by his posting since.

Nacho I'm not super confident in, and I never got around to ISOing him yesterday. Probably will do tonight although super late. I feel like I can't quite put my finger on why I feel that way about his slot and id feel better about the read one way or another if I ISO him.

That's a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge scumtell

No it's not

I didn't know that once X number of strategies have been suggested no more could be suggested. I guess I've been playing mafia wrong.

Not the point I was making at all, which is obvious if you read the two sentences after the one you quoted. The point was that Kagami made it sound like it was self-evidently obvious that his newly suggested strategy was objectively correct and that we would be following him without him needing to say anything else, which seemed disingenuous.

It seems pretty in character for Kagami to me

Also, the witty retort you'll give to that about how much I suck won't be particularly innovative or witty.

Nah I'll save it for when you call me inevitably scum at some point.

Congrats on being a null read, you did it

@ceph: someone ask who i would kill. there is a difference between "who everyone wants dead" and "who i would personally kill". I'm still moved by the people when the role is thrust upon me.

Fine.

Ceph - in those two games he was actively deathtunelling and pushing players. He's doing next to nothing here.

That was not mentioned in the case.

[Cephrir]

At page five she had like five posts, and she's your top town read?

Yes

I really like them and didn't have a lot of strong townreads

[Cephrir]

It seems the options being presented to me are A) kill Nacho and B) trust Fate, whose actions are a mystery to me and who could easily do something I hate more. I choose neither.

VOTE: SXTLHGaiden

[Cephrir]

able to vote you for king unless your opinions change. I was planning to.

You say that like its a threat.

not really, i was just looking forward to it!

[Cephrir]

Are you a muffin alt

[Cephrir]

i guess the 2011 join date would be a pretty long con

[Cephrir]

So is a vote for Fate essentially a vote to lynch Kagami then, or what

I wish he'd give me like a pool of 5 or something so I'd have a clue what I was voting for.

[Cephrir]

Oh, for the record, if i'm elected king and we haven't decided as a town who we are killing, i'm killing who hammers me.

yeah this is quality fucking king material right here

go right on ahead cephrir

I don't think this is all that bad.

So is a vote for Fate essentially a vote to lynch Kagami then, or what

I wish he'd give me like a pool of 5 or something so I'd have a clue what I was voting for.

I've given a pool


It consists of the Spiffeh wagon and theres a mystery read off the wagon

I'm not going to be killing anyone that people would be disappointed with

My reads are a conglomerate of all my top townreads reads as well as the general desires of the game state.

I've stated who I'm not killing as well

I guess I'm okay with most of those options. Being contrary is more fun, but fine.

VOTE: Fate

[Cephrir]

This is me expressing that I would mildly prefer to keep BROseidon around out of that group.

[Cephrir]

i would have liked the chance to actually beat nacho. oh well.

also that scum kill is pretty mean.

[Cephrir]

oh, and if i'm a cop, i got a town result on axelrod

[Cephrir]

tell me more.

[Cephrir]

How do people feel about KittyMo given the Nacho scum flip?

without reading her posts again: she is town, stop it

[Cephrir]

kuribo was probably a good kill but it makes me sad. that's rude lol

i'm gonna take a huge chunk of time this weekend and re-read D1. knowing these flips will be very helpful.

glad i wasn't the king shot yesterday. thanks for believing in me. lol

i do not like this post

VOTE: Kagami

[Cephrir]

^ this kinda frustrates me. i know i was gone for a lot of D1 but i don't see how that equates to scumminess. you'll get a chance to see me play if you give me a couple days, because now i will have time.

if it's that big of a deal that you get oodles of immediate content from someone who is more socially popular, then i can just replace out and you'll get your wish. but i definitely plan to take a discerning look over the weekend and Have Actual Thoughts™

so please. be patient.

you're doing a lot of assuming here about what i didn't like about your post. you've jumped to incorrect conclusions but i find it puzzling that you were so sensitive.

[Cephrir]

Why is Godz scum

[Cephrir]

camn other than Cakez who do you think is scum?

KittyMo
G[o]dz
Axelrod
zakk

This is from my yesterday spreadsheet.
I haven't re-read today in face of the flips... but kuribo was already in my townslot, and Nacho in my scumslot.
Although I did have Skybird as scummy.. so I gotta re-assess.

Yuck

^ this kinda frustrates me. i know i was gone for a lot of D1 but i don't see how that equates to scumminess. you'll get a chance to see me play if you give me a couple days, because now i will have time.

if it's that big of a deal that you get oodles of immediate content from someone who is more socially popular, then i can just replace out and you'll get your wish. but i definitely plan to take a discerning look over the weekend and Have Actual Thoughts™

so please. be patient.

you're doing a lot of assuming here about what i didn't like about your post. you've jumped to incorrect conclusions but i find it puzzling that you were so sensitive.

it's just unfair. it's not that i don't want to play this game, it's that i couldn't.

but you were clearly hinting that i misread your intent, so, i'll bite. what didn't you like about my post?

The rest of it, mostly

[Cephrir]

Yuck

You don't like spreadsheets? I love them. I use them for everything.

I don't like your opinions.

Old Guard is definitely in the scum. No one shoots kuribo except that crew

he was a universal townread

also you are supposed to have good opinions! these opinions are bad.

no clue where these scumreads on godz and kittymo are all coming from, doesn't make any sense to me at all

[Cephrir]

he was a universal townread

As far as scum was concerned, I'm more unlynchable than kuribo was. There was a meaningful decision to shoot kuribo over me.

doc fears and/or you being wrong seems like an easy explanation

also ive been trying to find my pumbaaface.jpg for hiplop and it's apparently been a long time since i brought it out

[Cephrir]

BS may be scum but Warthog I am sure is scum, and would like to see that go first.

I hope you know I'm going to quote this at you someday.

[Cephrir]

He doesn't bleed town as much as last game.. and like i was saying.. Antihero-scum would explain why nacho was so one-sided a mediator.
Also, he doesn't

annoy

me as much as last game.
So maybe some of his native smarm isn't shining through because he is scum and playing reserved?
Or maybe we all are maturing.

I guess I need to respond to this, so I'll just say this:
-I haven't been in the game for long.
-I'm only antagonistic when I'm being antagonized.

And also,
-I think this is a departure from your tone with me last game.

[Cephrir]

-I'm only antagonistic when I'm being antagonized.

You wern't particularly antagonistic in TM: MOD ERROR despite my incredible abrasiveness towards you. If that was not "being antagonized" then I don't know what is. Why was that?

I had a team to bitch to and the ability to lynch you.

[Cephrir]

Also, I knew my team composed of people I care about was reading the game and didn't want them to think less of me, and I've probably become less willing to sit and take abuse since then.

so basically a lot of reasons

[Cephrir]

The Nacho scum flip also supports you being scum with how much he was supporting you.

Is that what happened?

[Cephrir]

what in ABR's 11 posts has given you a scumread

[Cephrir]

dz post_id=7952663 time=1464383783 user_id=15399 post_num=1561]

[o], what were your thoughts on warthog?

I was softening on Antihero at the point he exited the game. I haven't seen anything particularly alignment-indicative from Pumbaa.

He was in my "reserving judgment" pile at the end of yesterday primarily because I wanted to look at Anti/him with fresh eyes at some point.

It hasn't happened yet and I'm lazy so it may not happen any time in the very near future.

I don't think he's the most likely person to be scum, though.

He feels like scum desperately afraid of drawing a shot.

you can tell by my frantic tone and large volume of tryhard posts.

[Cephrir]

dz post_id=7952649 time=1464383477 user_id=15399 post_num=1559]

Anti isn't scum because Godz is scum.

I forget if you're still sold on the "one of them

must

be scum because they can't both be town" thing, but if you are, does that mean you'd start thinking Cephrir is scum if I'm town?

Yeah I'd look into Ceph a lot more if you flip town
But I don't see you flipping town

are you playing a bizarro world version of this mafia game

[Cephrir]

Define bizarro world

taking place in a reality where things are the opposite of the way they are in this reality

[Cephrir]

dz post_id=7952663 time=1464383783 user_id=15399 post_num=1561]

[o], what were your thoughts on warthog?

I was softening on Antihero at the point he exited the game. I haven't seen anything particularly alignment-indicative from Pumbaa.

He was in my "reserving judgment" pile at the end of yesterday primarily because I wanted to look at Anti/him with fresh eyes at some point.

It hasn't happened yet and I'm lazy so it may not happen any time in the very near future.

I don't think he's the most likely person to be scum, though.

He feels like scum desperately afraid of drawing a shot.

you can tell by my frantic tone and large volume of tryhard posts.

camn said it best.

dunno about volume, but this is a p tryhard post

ok gj u got me smarty pants

[Cephrir]

So you think Anti vs Godz was TvT?

I am the Anti slot and I have been saying I think Godz is town. What do you think.

[Cephrir]

i gathered that

[Cephrir]

No. I'm not sure if I've ever played with you before actually.

[Cephrir]

Ok KittyMo is scum I'm happy with her dying.

{BRO, KITTYMO, Ceph, Cakez???}

We can go with those for now.

Oh my god I'm so happy Kagami's in the driver seat right now.

ikr those are the worst reads in the world

[Cephrir]

haha this thread is so toxic why am i here

[Cephrir]

i'll be back when reading this doesn't make me upset! probably not with much analysis or original thought though. feeling another gumball day 2 coming on.

[Cephrir]

i am finding the fact that i can't vote someone to get their attention and/or express my spiteful feelings towards them to be disheartening.

[Cephrir]

heh, interesting.

So instead of take the time and effort to see what happened when I offered scum a chance to save their buddy, which is all I did. Offer an alternative option, while even ENCOURAGING the nacho wagon to just hurry up and finish.

All the blame rests on me. I single handedly derailed the game onto myself.

hmm

given your own arrogance at your apparent skill level I'll offer you the respect of being half as good as you think you are, in which case your narrative for yesterday is just scum.

i am not buying this post at all.

[Cephrir]

This is me expressing that I would mildly prefer to keep BROseidon around out of that group.

and Yes I'm bringing this connection back up for those who want to se eit

Cephrir I asked you why you thought BRO was town day fucking ONE and I won't take this "oh mope cant vote for people" excuse bullshit for being sad over nachosbuddy's death.

i had a bit of as gut townread on him as compared to the rest of your list. it's only getting stronger today.

[Cephrir]

heh, interesting.

So instead of take the time and effort to see what happened when I offered scum a chance to save their buddy, which is all I did. Offer an alternative option, while even ENCOURAGING the nacho wagon to just hurry up and finish.

All the blame rests on me. I single handedly derailed the game onto myself.

hmm

given your own arrogance at your apparent skill level I'll offer you the respect of being half as good as you think you are, in which case your narrative for yesterday is just scum.

i am not buying this post at all.

what are you not buying?

You conveniently did not quote my post where I laid out what happened yesterday with the Spiffeh/Me wagons. Do you have an issue with the way I've presented that story?

In particular you must not like how scummy is makes you, given you were a pivotal vote in shifting the momentum to me and off Nacho

Your presentation of the bolded is not what I believe actually happened. You're trying to take credit for a read you didn't have.

I don't even know what you're talking about but I'll try to find it if I have time. I don't really care if I "look scummy" because I can see my role PM and I'm inclined to think it's your fault if you can't tell what color it is.

[Cephrir]

Yes, my vote for you to be king probably played a role in your election. Yes, I did knowingly choose an unknown over a Nacho kill. I did not have a scumread on Nacho and I feel that he's a valuable player for town, so I didn't want to lynch him when the alternative was people I also didn't have townreads on.

But apparently you've decided I'm a level zero scum player who pulls angles like "pls don't kill my scumbuddy for no reason."

[Cephrir]

yeah i don't feel like finding it, if there's something you want me to respond to just quote it.

[Cephrir]

a vote to king me is a vote to lynch in [fate, camn, zakk].

[Cephrir]

@spiffeh: It'll be back. This is thematic for the game I'm modding.

@bro: because i haven' really been paying attention to the case on him.

[Cephrir]

I can't really tell how much of it was not wanting to shoot Nacho and wanting to be Emperor so badly that I ran on a campaign counter to Spiffeh (because there was no reason to elect me over Spiffeh if I was just going to shoot the same person)

in the end I've tasted what it feels like to be a dirty politician after all, yeah no amount of anything is worth that soul price.

Zakk if you're scum singing the same song as Bro I don't know what to tell you. Your tone has been town but I guess you're just good at faking that because your content has been shit

Scumpost

[Cephrir]

VOTE: Cephrir

For a fateless tomorrow

[Cephrir]

This is looking increasingly like a scum victory. This thread could use more kagami.

[Cephrir]

There really should be someone in this thread that knows this version if me is town 90 percent of the time.

[Cephrir]

Godz, if you ran on that platform I would vote for you

[Cephrir]

Albeit only because I don't see any chance of being elected myself.

[Cephrir]

He's probably my fifth or sixth choice for scum

[Cephrir]

I don't really strongly feel Zakk is scum anymore. I liked his response to me calling him scum.

[Cephrir]

Well then tell me who else is going to shoot cake or fate or camn or a lurker

[Cephrir]

I'll settle for Brian if need be and or actually read the concerns with him. He's not left too much impression on me.

[Cephrir]

Reread brian. My opinion didn't change. It's kind of ok but I didn't care about it.

[Cephrir]

Like how the fuck is nobody else seeing the bullshit that Fate is peddling?

Am I invisible?

[snip]

Some of this is ok. Some of it's less convincing. I still don't really care if Brian lives or not. I appreciate the effort, though

Here's the thing - it shouldn't have even been called prob-mason. Hiplop and I were super obviously joking. Like, nobody in this game other than mayyyyyyyyyyybe Nacho would have even been in on the joke b/c it comes from Chicagomeet, but Brian was stiff enough to take the non-existent bait. That's super, super fucking scummy.

Am I invisible? Also, I don't think this is scummy.

[Cephrir]

So... you guys won't elect Kagami to kill Brian, but you'll elect BRO to kill Brian. DGB I can buy just not paying attention, but...

[Cephrir]

Vote me if you want camn dead.

[Cephrir]

So you changed from a nearly hammered wagon to one on less confirmed town to do the same thing. Oh, that makes much more sense!

[Cephrir]

I was grumping at someone else but yes you did it too

I just already think that person is scum!

[Cephrir]

Boy, that post would make a lot more sense if you'd been my top suspect for any length of time!

[Cephrir]

oh well i'm a fake townie so i'm gonna not do that

[Cephrir]

c'mon! Why not? We can always swing back to Kagami!
Lurker-DGB is a dangerous player to leave in the 'unknown' category.

You think you are beating her in LYLO if she is scum? As it sits?
Maybe. But more posts from her are key.

It's not lylo. I'm sure she'll post eventually. I would rather spend my time lynching scum.

[Cephrir]

I feel like scum is #STEERING away from kagami

onto exactly the same choice broseidon?

[Cephrir]

I would rather spend my time lynching scum.

Can you self-vote?

I am selfvoting, thanks 4 noticing honorary and/or actual scum!

[Cephrir]

Hashtag winning.

[Cephrir]

If I am a cop, I got a town result on DGB. Very informative, I know.

[Cephrir]

what

[Cephrir]

dz post_id=7969081 time=1464893021 user_id=15399 post_num=2002]My thoughts last night were that remaining scum was probably in { Albert, DGB, Camn, Kastuki, Fate }.

My thoughts right now are not much different, though I will probably spend some time fleshing this out.

[Cephrir]

Also, it's pretty basic to just assume scum put X scum in whatever list. Unless there's a particular contextual reason to believe that, I don't think it's any more meaningful than rolling dice.

[Cephrir]

Although I do think it makes sense. This is the list he eventually gave when obvtown-Spiffeh was stating he wanted cakez executed and putting him under the gun. I find it unlikely that with only 1 scum flipped so far, he wouldn't have included any scumbuddies in a list in that context.

Still think this is a crappy assumption.

[Cephrir]

Do we even know who kagami is lynching? Kagami himself is like the primary advocate of not doing what we're currently doing.

[Cephrir]

it's pretty difficult to care about a kingmaker game wherein you're never going to be king and your reads don't matter.

[Cephrir]

I don't think my actions have any impact on whether I win at this point! I guess I could try to decrease my chances of being mislynched by doing what I do best, but I don't feel like it.

In before this post is called scum giving up!

[Cephrir]

TBH I'm probably just gonna go sign up for another game. >_>

[Cephrir]

oh well, at least it'll probably be over soon and I know now that I don't want to do this in the future.

VOTE: Kagami

[Cephrir]

go ahead, say it, be wrong. it's the only pleasure i'm likely to derive at this point.

[Cephrir]

I don't think my actions have any impact on whether I win at this point! I guess I could try to decrease my chances of being mislynched by doing what I do best, but I don't feel like it.

In before this post is called scum giving up!

It does seem weird you're not a little happier about a game that appears to be going well. That would, in fact, be the scum response.

My emotions are immune to your logic.

[Cephrir]

I'll take bets. I'm paying out 10:1 on any number that isn't 5.

[Cephrir]

I hope it's not something as lame as "he lost interest in two games as town that seemed to be easy wins."

[Cephrir]

fate might be a better choice, idk.

[Cephrir]

does it also have to answer the ultimate question, or did you just want to know what it is

[Cephrir]

I absolutely do not.

[Cephrir]

Except for that one time I did it on purpose because I sometimes do the same as town.

[Cephrir]

No, two times! Go figure.

[Cephrir]

Sass is like a solid third of my personality tho.

[Cephrir]

Cephrir is not scum.

[Cephrir]

I don't get it.

[Cephrir]

I don't get how that proves anything at all?

Spoiler: zombie thing

If I am a power role, I did not do anything last night.

[Cephrir]

Oh, I get it. But I didn't lie.

[Cephrir]

I can only assume there is a busdriver or something in play here, but I won't blame you guys for lynching me. I'd lynch me.

[Cephrir]

I'd like to point out before I claim that if I were scum I could say I was actually a doctor or something.

I am actually a cop. Most likely either I'm naive or Axelrod is scum. I did actually forget to act last night. I thought I had, but it's not in my sent box, so.

[Cephrir]

VOTE: SXTLHGaiden

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Don't forget that Fate is scum.

[Cephrir]

I can only assume there is a busdriver or something in play here, but I won't blame you guys for lynching me. I'd lynch me.

how does bus driver work?

It swaps what happens to one player with what happens to a different player.

I don't think it can be a redirector, I think busdriver is the only possibility.

[Cephrir]

dz post_id=7978693 time=1465245530 user_id=15399 post_num=2164]What did you result on N2 say?

Double checked this already. It specifically says DGB is town.

[Cephrir]

If I'm insane, then I'm sorry for fucking up last night.

[Cephrir]

Busdriver, please at least keep your jizz in your pants. No one wants to see that.

[Cephrir]

I can only assume there is a busdriver or something in play here, but I won't blame you guys for lynching me. I'd lynch me.

how does bus driver work?

It swaps what happens to one player with what happens to a different player.

I don't think it can be a redirector, I think busdriver is the only possibility.

why are you dismissing redirector?

I imagine camn's results were formatted like mine, and as such would say who she tracked.

[Cephrir]

Also, that is just how tracker results should be formatted.

[Cephrir]

My very shitty arguments:
1) As scum, I like to claim my targets (and role, for that matter) truthfully for this very reason.
2) You can see some awkwardness around my zombieposts that I think points to me being a cop, but YMMV.

pedit: No, other cops should keep it to themselves here anyway unless they are idiots -- that is the whole point of hypocop.

[Cephrir]

You should probably kill me now. I don't really want to do Saki again.

[Cephrir]

Or more accurately, if you want to not kill me now fine I guess but I'd rather be dead than get suspected by 75% of the game for like 4 days.

[Cephrir]

The vig died.

[Cephrir]

We can most likely kill me tomorrow. I'll probably get a town result, and since there are most likely two scum left, we can kill me then having learned that either I am useless or I have caught the scumteam.

[Cephrir]

You can still call me Pumbaa if you want. I kind of like it.

[Cephrir]

I don't find Camn's hypoclaim incriminating for Ceph since it's possible Camn was just lying about her results.

I feel pretty safe assuming this is not what happened.

Also, yeah, I don't know how I managed not to submit. I specifically recall thinking about whether I should target Kagami to learn my sanity or not. I guess I never decided and then assumed I'd done it.

Also, I feel reasonably certain I am naive, which probably made me care less.

[Cephrir]

Also I don't see your zombie posts cephrir (which makes you look even scummier because why wouldnt you just full claim when you claim) so please tell me all your actions and results

I did them, it's not my fault if you weren't paying attention.

[Cephrir]

"Most likely." Yeah. So, on top of lie, we have this.

Cephir is scum or the worst townie ever and also the victim of some kind of unexplained ability that redirected her away from DGB to SXGaiden without her being aware that it had even happened? Exactly what kind of ability would that be? Someone said Bus Driver, but that's not how that works, is it? When you get redirected you know it's happened. You don't just get a result and are misled into believing that the result came from someone else.

If what I'm saying about potentially being busdriven is true, how am I the worst townie ever?

I don't know if that's necessarily how it works but I know what I'm seeing in my results and I know it doesn't make any sense. We can try to figure out what happened while I'm alive, or you can kill me and try to figure it out without the benefit of me getting another investigation and potentially helping figure out what happened. Whatever.

This seems like a scum post, so hey, maybe I'm not useless after all.

[Cephrir]

ugh. Wait, so, Camn should have known that Cephir's claim yesterday did not match his result. Why would he still have called Cephir Town?

That doesn't make any sense either.

Indeed, it does not.

[Cephrir]

VOTE: axel lets kill ceph

hippy. tut tut.

jk thats a pretty reasonable vote.

[Cephrir]

Although, I would like to ask that if we're going to kill me, Axelrod not be king. If he's actually scum, he'll just shoot someone other than me and laugh all the way to the bank.

[Cephrir]

Why did you choose the targets you did?

I followed roughly the same logic I did in Saki, where I did very well as a tracker. At least for N1, this is what I did. I chose Axelrod because he made a fair amount of largeish posts that I felt like never actually said anything. It's a category of "writes words but I still don't feel like they've done a single alignment indicative thing." I guess you could say I was testing my hypothesis from that game that those players turn out to be scum.

DGB I just investigated because she was lurking uncharacteristically and I had no read on her whatsoever. I felt there was a problem in the Fate/Kats/camn/DGB group-ish thing and she seemed like a good place to start.

[Cephrir]

Mafia having a 1-shot extra kill that they just sat on until N3 seems unlikely somehow. They are going to want to fire that off quickly to not lose it.

Perhaps they were waiting to try and figure out who other masons were or some such. Or to have a reason to use it.

[Cephrir]

I don't think camn was lying. I just don't see what she could possibly hope to gain. Maybe she thought I was scum and she could throw me off her scent by claiming something incorrect? Only I don't think she looked like a likely nightkill target until she started softing everywhere. So, yeah, I'm still looking for another explanation.

[Cephrir]

Maybe I'll have to find it in the dead thread.

[Cephrir]

I think I've been persuaded it would be better to execute me tomorrow. I might hammer myself if it's going that way, though.

[Cephrir]

Sooooooo
Cephrir is scum. and i even have proof too

I gotta say, Gaiden, you found this contradiction in the nine minutes between the time FG posted Camn was dead and a Tracker and this post?

That was fast.

Is it? It seems pretty legit to me to do things in precisely the order he presumably did upon seeing that flip.

[Cephrir]

In retrospect, that too.

[Cephrir]

ill make ur face king.

[Cephrir]

Godz is the true prophet. All others are false.

[Cephrir]

I'm caught scum, guys!

It gives me little tingly feelings when people say things with certainty and they're wrong. I guess I thought this only applied to incorrect townreads on me.

[Cephrir]

dz post_id=7980681 time=1465305453 user_id=15399 post_num=2277]

Like Brian is a far more mature player than "lol derphammer"

Is he? Then why did he do it?

... Preferably an answer with something deeper than, "because he's scum..."

Do you think he just doesn't care about this game any more? Because that's about the only reason I could see him doing that as scum outside of not thinking about it at all. He risked getting shot that very day and, if that didn't happen, something like this happens today.

The answer is because he's scum. It's really just that simple

I think that if Brian's scum, his reasoning was most likely that that seemingly ballsy action would get Kagami to rethink. If I was as broadly scumread as Brian was, that's something I might try. I probably would have incorrectly thrown in an ATE, though.

[Cephrir]

Cephrir only believes in Godz who is defending him

yeah nothing to see here folks sure.

Godz who is scum then in this unwinnable town game?

I believe in BRO a little bit. And I believe zakk has decent reads, though I don't particularly have warm fuzzy feelings about him as a scumhunter in general or anything. I also believe in myself a little bit! And have I reminded everyone that KittyMo is town lately, because she didn't stop being town

[Cephrir]

ah so Zakk has given you the perfect coast train to ride on to Fate/Katsuki 2016 town

I don't know what you're talking about.

[Cephrir]

There is more than one Cop in this game. Cops can be either Sane, Insane, Paranoid, Naive, or Random.

Reminder for everyone in the event of my demise: the fifth cop might not exist at all.

[Cephrir]

There's just no way in fuck Gaiden got busdriven with whoever the fuck Cephrir claimed to have targeted N1 when there were OBVTOWN to kill and BUSDRIVERS to get around protection

Gosh, it will sure be annoying when you later claim there's no way anyone could have possibly figured out whatever it is that actually happened.

[Cephrir]

Cephir you do realize I"m the wagon that results in you not dying right?

I am not satisfied with either of the current options.

I guess I probably should stop voting for my own death though.

UNVOTE:

[Cephrir]

Look I KNOW who shot Camn last night so there's a VERY GOOD REASON to not massclaim

ESPECIALLY with caught Cephir scum and Brian skies being sketch as fuck

How exactly does that follow? Oh wait, YOU killed Camn. Did I get it right? Did I? How else would you KNOW who killed Camn yet you're not just telling us so we can go and kill them?

The point is, if you think by not mass-claiming you are hiding something from the scum you are probably hiding less than you think. Now, if you were scum yourself, though, with likely only two left, I'm sure you could see how keeping everything dark could be the best way to go.

Axel is still scum after all, aren;t you?

Axel how does not letting scum know WHO THE LAST MASONS ARE=me keeping EVERYONE IN THE DARK MWHAWHAHHAHA BASK IN THE UNKNOWN YOU MEEK FOOLISH TOWNIES

What the hell do these posts have to do with each other.

[Cephrir]

I don't understand what that kill has to do with masons, and if it does have to do with masons, I don't get why you would drop that in response to Axelrod.

[Cephrir]

[Brian Skies, Cephrir, Axelrod, Godz/KittyMo, Implosion] are dead.

Yes, if we lynched all those people, the game would certainly be over.

[Cephrir]

TBH, barring certainly-possible tomfoolery, I feel like there are only three people who can be masons anyway. So I guess I don't care too much.

[Cephrir]

[Brian Skies, Cephrir, Axelrod, Godz/KittyMo, Implosion] are dead.

Yes, if we lynched all those people, the game would certainly be over.

probably far before we reached KittyMo right?

I imagine the game would end on the fifth lynch in a scum win.

[Cephrir]

Oh, no, they only need four mislynches.

[Cephrir]

Oh yeah, I think I can guess exactly who the masons are, then. I forgot zakk claimed VT.

[Cephrir]

dz post_id=7980938 time=1465312295 user_id=15399 post_num=2346]Because if she claims he targeted who he actually targeted (who he said he targeted), it might clue scum in on who a cop is.

Wouldn't she have just said I did nothing, then?

[Cephrir]

Implosion: N1: Camn/Town/Gaiden N2: Broseiden/Town/No one N3: Did not Zombie Post. Not a Cop.

Katsuki: N1: Nacho/Town N2: Broseiden/Town N3: Did not Zombie Post. Not a Cop.

Why can't these two be cops?

[Cephrir]

I guess I feel like tracking me to Gaiden would still make scum think I'm more likely to be a power role. Unless scum also tracked me, it's all the same to them, right? I guess they might have thought I was a doctor rather than a cop (since Gaiden is clearly not someone I would investigate).

[Cephrir]

Oh, that's true. OK.

[Cephrir]

I don't really have any choice but to accept it. I don't think bus drivers actually work the way I wanted them to work.

[Cephrir]

It's kind of annoying that you keep discounting the possibility that I'm insane and you're scum. I know it's true from your POV but I'd like to be able to use your posts to track the flow of things.

[Cephrir]

thanks that's super helpful

[Cephrir]

they don't need to kill you, no one's listening anyway

[Cephrir]

VOTE: zakk

[Cephrir]

I already agreed with you.

[Cephrir]

no no, he was trying to screw with axelrod, the person he hasn't said was scum until just now!

[Cephrir]

Yep we're killing fate.

vote zakk with me

[Cephrir]

or we could vote you, whatever

[Cephrir]

I've called Axelrod scum multiple times starting at the beginning of D2

thats complete horseshit

and the fact that you don't see how obviously scum Axelrod's reaction means youre just not a town Ceph

it wasn't very memorable, then.

eh, if you turn out to be town or i turn out to be an insane cop, maybe

[Cephrir]

Here's what's probably best.

We lynch not-cephrir today. Why not cephrir? Because I can shoot him tonight, because we know for sure that he's a cop and therefore not the scum godfather (if one exists). So if I shoot him and he doesn't die, we'll know for sure that I was blocked or he was protected or I was redirected or some other bs was going on.

I will be a bit salty if there's a scum redirector though. Didn't think of that until now.

reiterating what has been said many times: i should die tomorrow with another result on the table.

[Cephrir]

Hell, if I'm insane there's a chance scum will off me.

[Cephrir]

Cephrir what is your kuribo ROLE NAME

War day

[Cephrir]

the identity of the last mason is extremely obvious

[Cephrir]

Analyzing the zombie posts mostly leads to the conclusion that there is a naive cop who isn't me, but, sure

[Cephrir]

and here i thought you just had the sick read.

[Cephrir]

i don't think kittymo or gaiden is scum

[Cephrir]

nor broseidon, and i would still favor a fate kill over brian

[Cephrir]

look Zakk if you really want to see things that aren't there I'm sure you can find all sorts of shit

Like I said yesterday with camn I realize my play is questionable so unless you're just a competent player who can see beyond circumstantial evidence I look guilty as hell given:

-Didn't shoot scum
-Provided an alternative wagon to the Nacho lynch
-Provided an alternative wagon to the SirCakez/Brian Skies lynch
-Was called town by DGB and sheeped
-Called ABR town when no one else seemed to have this read probably just for "Credit"
-Claimed inside info when having none to fuck with the scum but apparently that just fucked with the town

I mean the list goes on doesn't it?

This post seems emotionally untenable

[Cephrir]

nor broseidon, and i would still favor a fate kill over brian

compare the two hammers again and get back to me

I don't know what makes you think that has anything g to do w it

[Cephrir]

I find it odd that katsukis protests don't involve an objection on the ground of having an innocent on him but ok sure.

[Cephrir]

Godz is the true prophet. All others are false.

[Cephrir]

Weep for what was lost.

[Cephrir]

shockingly, i am still naive

[Cephrir]

yeah i dunno who's scum, i'm content with hopefully getting nightkilled soon

[Cephrir]

i guess there are some masons for them to burn through first, shoot

[Cephrir]

hiplop is town

[Cephrir]

There could be a scum role blocker and no gf I guess

[Cephrir]

shhhhhhh im deficient at reading mod posts

[Cephrir]

kittymo still isnt scum btw

[Cephrir]

i don't know S:

[Cephrir]

VOTE: zakk

[Cephrir]

that's not actually how odds work.

who could possibly be scum playing well here anyway? i count no one.

[Cephrir]

i guess broseidon would be playing a pretty good scum game, but, you know, he's not scum.

[Cephrir]

confirmed town are dying every night.

[Cephrir]

*hugs*

those are the worst. i think it's the realization that that isn't your life.

[Cephrir]

Whatever, we're not going to accomplish anything else here.

VOTE: hiplop

I still don't think it's KittyMo.

[Cephrir]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

at least it's over

[Cephrir]

we love you anyways!