Pick Your Power 6: The Revival (Game Over!)

[Lady Lambdadelta]

You guys can thank me for scum being deprived of strongman.

I spent all my points bidding on the role even though I'm town just to keep it out of scum hands.

No one asked you to claim o.o

Who said I wait to be asked to do anything?

You realize even by saying "The scum can't have this item, because I stole it" you out the fact you likely don't have any other power roles and thus are not going to be night killed. So odds of a real town power role dying is increased because of this.

Or did you not think of that?

The real question is why bring that up for public consumption? Like, why draw attention to that at all Fire Assassin?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

ME. MEEEEEEEE.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

SO

I have four neighor slots open, who wants to be my neighbor tomorrow?

If you want an active player to be neighbor, I am a good choice for that.

^scum claim

Why didn't you follow it up with a vote then?

Follow up question: Why is that request a scum claim when multiple others have done the same thing? What differentiates Fire Assassins' post from say mine? or UpTooLate's?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

The real question is why bring that up for public consumption? Like, why draw attention to that at all Fire Assassin?

The real question is, is this a real question? Or something to make you look busy.

I'm sorry you wanted me to dignify this with an answer?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

what is an ebwop?

edit by way of posting

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Accusing people of trying to look busy in the opening of a game is just silly.

That's more of a mid-day 1 or later concern. Everybody is going to be half stupid during RVs and looking too hard into it isn't very bright.

Silly rookie.

The dismissive attempts at calling me a rookie are indeed endearing. However I wanted to see if LLD actually was trying to find things are scummy or reaction testing which, you make a point can be more of an issue later day but can be just as true early game. During RVS its unlikely because most people are in "Troll mode" but LLD was not attempting that for all I could see.

Of course I'm reaction testing, what the fuck do you think I'm doing, asking questions because it makes me happy?

Fuck off.

Like, I'm in a rare position here where this game is significantly active with 3 or 4 lines of discussion and activity progressing concurrently with each other. I want to generate as many reads as possible from this time, before people start to get a feel for where the game is, and become more comfortable.

The more uncomfortable people are, the better I'll read them right now.

So questions to keep you off balance, questions to attack from different angles.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I wasn't aware I needed to explain that to anyone.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

He wanted to slap fight me with his ridiculous assertion, so I responded in mind.

I saying you were being anti town, you called me scum.
But you didn't even go into details why.

So your "slap" was very hollow.

Defensive, much?

Ok, let's move on to somethign more interesting house.

What do you think of Muffin's town read on you?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

VOTE: fire assassin

lld does thsi make you happy

Not really? It feels more like this vote is swatting at the gnat that is buzzing around my head.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I mean, I'd ask why you need my validation, Dan, but I know why~.

It's because you love me~ <3

[Lady Lambdadelta]

VOTE: spiffeh

serious vote.

Vote: Spiffeh

I like this idea.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

We were just about to break out of RVS and now we are back in RVS.

???


??????????????????????/


?????????????????????????????????/

Hiplop everything he's said before this post felt genuine as fuck.

And this just feels like.... NOT GENUINE AT ALL.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

What do you think of Muffin's town read on you?

i don't see how any answer given to this question is going to be useful if i don't first explain exactly where the read came from

(which i haven't done)

I'm less interested in the content of his answer, and more interested in how he chooses to respond to it?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

The real question is why bring that up for public consumption? Like, why draw attention to that at all Fire Assassin?

The real question is, is this a real question? Or something to make you look busy.

The real question is, is this a real question or something to make you look busy?

Honestly, we could say things back and forth like this all day and never get anywhere. The rabbit hole goes deep friends.

No it cannot, because you can see a players motivations to get an answer to a question because if they keep pushing for an answer to the question. If someone asks a question and you don't answer it, and they never bring it up again. They didn't care about the answer.

That shows they are just looking to be busy.

Like this, this is genuine.

This feels like he genuinely believes what he's saying.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

but the other post is like.....

Eh, it's one post, maybe I've got a bad vibe

[Lady Lambdadelta]

why is that so hard to believe? securing roles or preventing scum getting them isn't exactly an idea only a rocket surgeon could come up with

i don't think ninja (or strongman, really) is so valuable that it requires this but i don't see it as odd that two people would do this and i don't see it as odd that they chose different roles

Infact, if we just isolate those 2 people as "people who want to bid 100 on strongman or ninja" and we look at all the possibilities, isn't it just a 50% chance that they'll pick different ones or the same one?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

why is that so hard to believe? securing roles or preventing scum getting them isn't exactly an idea only a rocket surgeon could come up with

i don't think ninja (or strongman, really) is so valuable that it requires this but i don't see it as odd that two people would do this and i don't see it as odd that they chose different roles

Infact, if we just isolate those 2 people as "people who want to bid 100 on strongman or ninja" and we look at all the possibilities, isn't it just a 50% chance that they'll pick different ones or the same one?

Yeah, but I don't think I was even the only one that went all in on strongman.

Yeah, but that's why I said "in isolation of these two people".

I don't think it's strange at all.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Vote: I am Innocent

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Tell me, UTL, does bad logic make scum?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Tell me, UTL, does bad logic make scum?

.....

It's not bad logic when she fucked up and then tried to clean up her mess and fucked up more.

She got caught in a lie (twice!), and now she's trying to weasel her way out of it.

Highlight for me where she lied.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

If that were true why didn't you say that the first time I mentioned 230, instead of telling me you were ignoring it and had used bad logic?

Yeah ok, you're wrong. What are your reads on other people then?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I mean that you're wrong, and probably also not that bright.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

As far as I can tell, Hebi has stated she originally voted Spiffeh to induce pressure and then her vote developped into something more because he was discrediting people.

Your argument that her reasons make no sense because certain posts are out of order only makes sense if you assume Hebi is a computer who has perfect information.

Her reactions have seemed real, her intent in trying to explain herself to you has seemed genuine.

So yeah, you're wrong?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I mean that you're wrong, and probably also not that bright.

Lets not do this okay. I mean not only is it jerk you could be wrong. I mean you're not this time. But you actually can be.

I want Fire Assassin back.

I told someone they were wrong and they asked me the question "what do you mean I'm wrong?"

I assume my answer is going to continue to be "I mean you're wrong" so... meh?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

and in full fairness to myself I'm scaling WAY back on my rage this game. Or trying to. It builds up in me so I need small release valves~.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

LLD be nice to UTL she's lovely

Tch.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I thought I

was

being nice~.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Is nobody else curious about this flip?

i am very much curious about aristophanes in general

Yeah that flip looks super dodgy. And yet afterwards he takes UnexpectedAnvil's word that he got the ninja? That's curious.

?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Light, why is TSQ scum?

In addition, who else is scummy and why?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

He's lurking (been online lots without posting), the few posts he's made have little content that helps to progress the game: he's been trying to look like he's busy without being busy. I don't get his vote on UTL considering he actually is active, and in total he's presented basically nothing to progress the game and help us lynch scum.

As for who else is scummy I have a unsure scumread read on Aristophanes due to his contradictory posting, and a weak scumread on I Am Innocent: I don't think his comments in reply to UTL add up.

Is Lurking scummy inherently?

How can he be trying to look busy while also HARD lurking? Isn't that counter productive intents? It seems you must be assuming that TSQ is either incompetent or deliberately working against himself?

Why is UTL being active make him a less attractive lynch that TSQ? Do you think UTL is town because they're active? Is activity a measure of town alignment?

Show me Ari's contradictory posting, and show me how that posting has scum intent.

Which comments by IAI with regards to UTL are you specifically referring to? Why don't they add up and why does this only add up to a weak scum read?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

^ ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

lld why did you have to make that post

How about you shut your whore mouth and let me do work?

I'll fucking tell you why I want that mirriad of questions answered once light actually answers them.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

like it occurs to me you might think I'm joking here.

I'm not.

Can you please fucking not discredit my posts before the person I'm interrogating has a fucking chance to answer?

Like fucking COME ON, Hiplop.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Is Lurking scummy inherently?

Lurking and inactivity are inherently bad for town, even if the lurker isn't scum because it denies us information.

How can he be trying to look busy while also HARD lurking? Isn't that counter productive intents? It seems you must be assuming that TSQ is either incompetent or deliberately working against himself?

I am not trying to insinuate either incompetence or anti-self play: someone trying to stay under the radar may make posts on occasion that are of little substance but give the illusion of activity (though in this case there has been little illusion of activity up until this page).

Why is UTL being active make him a less attractive lynch that TSQ? Do you think UTL is town because they're active? Is activity a measure of town alignment?

You misunderstand me, I was commenting on the fact that he had made a vote on UTL with the comment "is town UTL usually this inactive" and no other argument and left it there (up until after my last post) despite UTL's activity making his point moot. Being active is certainly not a measure of town alignment, but as I said inactivity is in no way good for town.

Which comments by IAI with regards to UTL are you specifically referring to? Why don't they add up and why does this only add up to a weak scum read?

I really dislike how IAI said he had a townread on house but that he would be a safe dayvig shot: surely if he townreads house and he is town it would be absolutely not in his interest for the dayvig to kill him? However, I don't see eough other evidence to have a strong scumread on him

I re-read Aristophanes' ISO and my read on him was based on a misunderstanding on my part, and I take it back.

Right but your goal in this game IS to lynch scum right?

Not to lynch bad town?

Or am I wrong?

Because your arguments seem directed towards wanting to lynch the latter more than the former.
----------------------

Trying to look busy =/= Illusion of being active

If you are trying to say he's avoiding prods, lurking through the day doing nothing, that's one thing.

If you're trying to say he's doing basically busy work, and not accomplishing anything, that's another, exclusively contrary thing. You cannot be doing so much work that you are "attempting to look busy" and "avoiding prods and lurking under the radar at the same time. False activity =/= no activity in this case.

So which is it? Which is he doing?
---------------------------------------------------------

Being active is certainly not a measure of town alignment, but as I said inactivity is in no way good for town.

Because it really seems like you'd prefer to lynch bad town, as opposed to scum.

-----------------------------------------
I'm sorry, but how is that inconsistency from IAI less worthy of a lynch than TSQ being inactive? You yourself said that "activity is not a measure of being town" and merely called it an "Anti-town act" while you specifically said IAI's activities have garnered a, specifically, scum read from you.

So once again, the question arises: Are you trying to lynch scum, or bad town?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Now, Hippy, assuming you actually read the post, what's wrong with my line of questioning here?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Lady Lambdadelta]

What's your take on that response, Hiplop?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Grey's been busy with work all week. He should have time to pick up the prod this weekend, Imp.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Vote: Light

[Lady Lambdadelta]

You were force replaced by the moderator's discretion. Please refrain from posting in games you are not a participant in.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Vote: Creature

[Lady Lambdadelta]

vote Lady LambdaDelta

Three votes D1 were Spiffeh, me, and Light...last two I know are town.

Just an FYI, lady dropped the biggest scum tell D1, but nobody still seems interested in her...

ISO her, her rage feels fake, she makes it look like she's contributing, but really not doing much. Her vote on me was an OMGUS, she slipped on the light wagon late as the winds changed direction, etc.

My rage is very real, it is just being held back because I'm trying to not explode on people as often now a days.

I'm fucking contributing more than you, sir quick hammers without a claim a lot. Go fuck yourself.

And how are you going to accuse me of slipping on the wagon late when you fucking quick hammered it?

Like, I put a vote to pressure someone who was being scummy. I left. I came back later and foudn the thread fucking locked.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

VOTE: hebichan

Can this please actually be a thing today?

Humour me for a moment and assume this isn't going to happen today. Who else is scum?

At this point you're beyond tunnelling on a single person and are into the realm of potentially hiding your intent by drilling a hole into a single area.

I want to know where you stand on the rest of the game.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I mean, I could ask the same of you, Spiffeh?

Also, could I get some more votes on Creature? His posting today feels really off and forced.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

neither of those are words i would use to describe creature's posts today, tbh

not that he's been the epitome of towniness either, but i don't see anything "forced" about his posts

The trolling feels forced to me. Like, he doesn't have anything to contribute but feels compelled to attempt to look townie, so plays it off with trolling, things that can easily be retracted if taken poorly.

It's safe and forced and I hate it and I want to see him fry.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I am mostly ignoring this game this weekend to play board games with GreyICE and Hebi. I'll give more thoughts on Monday. Apologies.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

why do people assume an argument is for everyone's sake? it's not

skip it if you don't want to read it, nobody is forcing you to

Vote: zMuffinMan

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Also, Magua, GreyICE has been busy at work and with other things for a little while now, so his complete lack of presence in the thread is kind of confirmed to be excusable to me.

I'm also dealing with a lot of paranoia from prior Face to Face and forum games (including one of the prior PYP games) where I keep lynching him on day 1 and day 2 because my gut read on him gets sent through the roof.

So I've kind of checked out on GI for now. Ask me on day 3, yeah?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i agree with the entirety of muffin's lynch list at this time

You haven't mentioned me all game, where's this coming from then?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I've seen nothing that contradicts that and i have scum reads on them both individually, combined with a total lack of interaction from either of them

Also this isn't hyperbole - I think there's literally been no interaction between them so far (apart from lld's recent answer to magua' question)

and why is that scummy again, Muffin?

In a game where my explicit goal is to not rage out and turn this game into a fucking shit show, why is me not interacting with GreyICE such a scummy thing for you?

I've also tried to limit my interactions with you, because I hate your fucking guts. Is that fucking scummy?

Is your fucking assertion, you ultimate assclown, that because I'm not interacting with my fiancee, who I'm magically supposed to be able to read, despite mounds of evidence that I apparently cannot, somehow is indicitive of my alignment?

Or is it the fucking assertion that my pushes have seemed, using your own words " mechanical, ineffectual and without life". Because it seems to me that you're just pulling that out of your ass, given my interactions with UTL fucking got me asked to "tone it down" and my pressure on Light led to a wagon that maybe I would have been able to fucking analyse and use to determine light's alignment had some cockfuck not quickhammered it.

And so here I am having spent like 2 hours mulling over how to say this shit without getting fucking site banned.

And you're having a fuckin' laugh, misrepresenting my interactions for free because to this point I've refused to call you out on being the lying deceptive cunt you've been so far.

tl;dr: Eat a dick, Muffin.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i agree with the entirety of muffin's lynch list at this time

You haven't mentioned me all game, where's this coming from then?

i feel like i might have at least once? you're not doing anything and that's weird

I iso'd you and to my best knowledge, not a single mention.

Also, for real? Do I have to be fuckign calling people cunts for you to recognise that I'm DOING anything?

Like, how in the ever loving fuck can you in good conscious say I've been doing fucking nothing, Cephrir.

I'll grant you, I haven't been doing as much as I normally do, but I've said 3-4 times this game I'm trying to
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ELIMINATE MY RAGE


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fuck evertyhgineka'fds;geytsrkf

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like, it seems that I don't get to play the game I want to play. I have to play the "rampaging asshole game".

Fine. You asked for it.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like I am shaking with rage and I so desperately want someone to come in here and fucking tell me I'm faking this shit because I will fucking eviscerate their bowels and hang them from a fucking pole so everyone can see that they're full of fucking shit.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

VOTE: Lady Lambdadelta
Actually pretty happy applying some pressure here for a time.

You are braver than you know.

You see this shit?

This is the kind of fucking reaction, especially from someone who has MET ME IN PERSON, that I wanted to fucking change this game.

This game was supposed to be about me being able to work things out and develop reads and create pressure without having to have the looming threat of being a firestorm ready to go off at any time.

This post more than ANYTHING made me resolute that I wasn't going to fucking cave to my seemingly endless anger issues.

and now I just don't have the willpower or fucks to care about whether I make any of you fucks uncomfortable anymore.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm going to go punch a wall for a while.

I feel like a shit person now, because you're fucking upset and like you're a friend and I don't want you to be fucking upset and everything blows.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

this game blows.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i just don't want you to be mad at me because i care about that, and i've been trying to give you guys space in this game for basically out of game reasons

I mean, the idea is you shouldn't have to.

Like, the idea is that I want to be able to play as town without getting mad.

Not "play as town without getting mad because people are ignoring me, and then telling me I'm not doing anything".

Like...

I'm not mad at you.... like not you personally.

like.... fuck me....

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i'm probably going to continue to do so

can we lynch zzzx

Why is muffin town?

He's shown me nothing but discrediting and misrepresentation, and has deflected people from commenting on his argument with GI (see: How Hebichan and he interacted).

His reaction to pressure is poor. Very poor. I want him hung.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I also want him hung because I actual factual hate him.

Like, as a mafia player.

As a person.

I am just super "not a fan".

But I'm trying to distinguish between "am I voting him because I think he's a sack of shit, or because he's a SCUMMY sack of shit"

And I think it's more the later, currently.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

@town: If LLD hadn't given you what you wanted to see, what would your reads be?

Is LLD capable of raging as scum? If she is scum, could she use that rage to draw heat off her wagon?

What fucking wagon are you talking about, you insufferable bag of dicks?

Is it the mystical hypothetical wagon that only exists in the make believe world where you're a half decent player or person?

Because if your argument is that I used AtE to avoid pressure.... my answer is "what fucking pressure?"

[Lady Lambdadelta]

LLD reminded me to proddodge (thanks LLD!)

I WILL FUCKING END YOU

[Lady Lambdadelta]

LLD reminded me to proddodge (thanks LLD!)

I WILL FUCKING END YOU

I've already watched this pony show.

What else ya got?

No see that one was a joke between friends.

You incompetent hack.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

LLD reminded me to proddodge (thanks LLD!)

I WILL FUCKING END YOU

<3

<3

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like if anyone needs any evidence for why House can't read me for shit, look no further than his interpretation of the exchange between Katsuki and I above.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

My read of you is "incompetent hack".

[Lady Lambdadelta]

as opposed to, you know, scum pushing me on bad logic making themselves look bad and burning town cred for a lynch that will never happen today.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

...

I don't think I could have been more clear in that statement without reducing my opinion to one word sound bytes.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like if you genuinely can't tell what my read on you is from those two posts, I think "incompetent hack" might actually be a compliment for the level of brain activity you're displaying.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Sure, let me break it down for you.

I think you are town for a multitude of reasons, but predominantly right now because I just don't see the scum intent in your fruitless and frankly moronic push on me today. It just feels like a bad town who is tunnelling in on something stupid.

And let me be clear, it is stupid. Your entire basis for your shit here is based on you and I being the same player, because we're both "ragers", which is the most basic and baseline shit I have ever seen.

You and I are nothing alike in personality, play style or in how we approach the game. For you to suggest that one point of correlation allows you to understand my motivations in this manner is shallow and frankly, as I've mentioned, makes you an incompetent hack.

Am I being clear enough for you yet?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I've had an interesting past 24 hours, including sleeping 4 different times for 4 hours and having to help a neighbour cremate her dog that died at 8 AM.

I need a day.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

vote Lady LambdaDelta

Three votes D1 were Spiffeh, me, and Light...last two I know are town.

Just an FYI, lady dropped the biggest scum tell D1, but nobody still seems interested in her...

ISO her, her rage feels fake, she makes it look like she's contributing, but really not doing much. Her vote on me was an OMGUS, she slipped on the light wagon late as the winds changed direction, etc.

My rage is very real, it is just being held back because I'm trying to not explode on people as often now a days.

I'm fucking contributing more than you, sir quick hammers without a claim a lot. Go fuck yourself.

And how are you going to accuse me of slipping on the wagon late when you fucking quick hammered it?

Like, I put a vote to pressure someone who was being scummy. I left. I came back later and foudn the thread fucking locked.

This is a scum-aligned post, it is resorting to the fake anger whenever attacked.

She is writing off the vote as pressure and trying to shift blame onto I Am Innocent, but she isn't saying that I Am Innocent is scum-aligned.

Oh look, another fucking useless brainless sack of shit who thinks they can mystically determine if my rage is real or not, despite it

always being fucking real, you miserable worthless sack of shit

.

HAVE YOU GOT ANYTHING TO SAY ABOUT ME THAT ISN'T ABOUT MY RAGE? HAVE YOU?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Of course I'm reaction testing, what the fuck do you think I'm doing, asking questions because it makes me happy?

Fuck off.

Like, I'm in a rare position here where this game is significantly active with 3 or 4 lines of discussion and activity progressing concurrently with each other. I want to generate as many reads as possible from this time, before people start to get a feel for where the game is, and become more comfortable.

The more uncomfortable people are, the better I'll read them right now.

So questions to keep you off balance, questions to attack from different angles.

This seems more like an attempt at faking anger this early. Seems unreasonable burst of anger from one post suggesting that I didn't believe her attempts at actually pushing forward the conversation.

I agree with this post, I think this and others of Lady Lambdadelta's posts throughout the parts of the game that I've read are trying to fake being upset to appear town-aligned.

vote Lady LambdaDelta

Three votes D1 were Spiffeh, me, and Light...last two I know are town.

Just an FYI, lady dropped the biggest scum tell D1, but nobody still seems interested in her...

ISO her, her rage feels fake, she makes it look like she's contributing, but really not doing much. Her vote on me was an OMGUS, she slipped on the light wagon late as the winds changed direction, etc.

My rage is very real, it is just being held back because I'm trying to not explode on people as often now a days.

I'm fucking contributing more than you, sir quick hammers without a claim a lot. Go fuck yourself.

And how are you going to accuse me of slipping on the wagon late when you fucking quick hammered it?

Like, I put a vote to pressure someone who was being scummy. I left. I came back later and foudn the thread fucking locked.

This is a scum-aligned post, it is resorting to the fake anger whenever attacked.

She is writing off the vote as pressure and trying to shift blame onto I Am Innocent, but she isn't saying that I Am Innocent is scum-aligned.

OH LOOK I DON' T FUCKING THINK YOU DO.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

ur rage so fake lololol

One of these days Kats, I'm going to snap, and I'm just going to make someone understand just how real my rage is by inflicting it on EVERY POST THEY MAKE IN THREAD.

Maybe then, they'll understand that it's not really possible to fake that kind of anger for that many posts unless you truly, ultimately loath someone that much.

And trust me, right now I fuckign loath this nobody.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

ur rage so fake lololol

One of these days Kats, I'm going to snap, and I'm just going to make someone understand just how real my rage is by inflicting it on EVERY POST THEY MAKE IN THREAD.

Maybe then, they'll understand that it's not really possible to fake that kind of anger for that many posts unless you truly, ultimately loath someone that much.

And trust me, right now I fuckign loath this nobody.

You me and Grey need a podcast where we scream about current events.

Oh my FUCKING GOD.

I SERIOUSLY WANT THIS.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

It's not? But it's no reason not to.

so you switched because... ?

believe me, if *I'm* town reading him to the extent I am and I have literally no reservations or doubts about it, despite the fact the majority of games I've had with him are scum games where he usually plays really well and mindfucks everyone... you better fucking believe his play is town. if you disagree let me know why and I'll get to it later (probably tomorrow).

This is some bullshit meta shit and you're fucking better than this, piegirl.

Like, why don't you explain to me what about his PLAY and INTENT are town without referring to prior games or how your "experience" with him shapes your ability to read him, ESPECIALLY since you've JUST ADMITTED that his scum play is "so good" and "mindfucks you".

So this confidence you have is ringing really fucking false to me.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I also have serious concerns that UTL hard defended Muffin, replaced out, and now her replacement comes in and is hard defending muffin despite a gunsmith result on him.

Like, it's not beyond the pale of things that could happen naturally but it certainly feels odd.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Even further, anyone who is claiming that Muffin is confirmed to have the Paranoid Vig is putting a LOT of faith in the ability of the Auction Cop to 1) use their one shot on Muffin and 2) not to have used their one-shot night one to try and trap someone in a claim or find a bidding pattern that is suspect.

Like, the fact that the scum have better control of bids and claims than town is

prima facie

and the only counter play that town have to this is the auction cop.

How do you account for the situation where the auction cop was won by scum?

Like, and the idea that Muffin would be counter claimed or would "be able to be vetted by an auction cop" and therefor his claim is town is BS. Muffin has a guilty result on him, and would be forced to make that claim whether we won the gun or NOT.

So I really am concerned that there are people who seems to be trying to brush off this result like it's nothing on a slot that is already fucking scummy, and now has a claimed guilty (albeit one with possible false positives) on them.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Muffin what power got blocked N1?

This is a bad question to ask.

If Muffin is by some grace of god town, then this information only allows scum further insight into his bidding habits, and allows them to use that to their advantage. Remember, every role that the scum know is used and owned by a player, is another piece of information, not just for their night action co-ordinations, but also for their future bidding claims.

Remember, we only have one auction cop shot.

And in the scenario where muffin is scum, how is this going to change what situation we're currently in? Either Muffin lied about his powers or he didn't and we already have that dichotomy based on his Paranoid Vig claim.

There is no need or benefit to this question being answered by him.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Hmm.... the fact it's a paranoid vig makes me wonder if maybe the optimal play here isn't to just lynch RM and allow this to resolve at night with some stippulations.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

No, it doesn't work because it's just more of the same WIFOM. If the shot doesn't go off, it's a question of "did Muffin ever have a vig or did the scum stop it?"

Bleh.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I was town against TSQ-scum in Weather Mafia II. That was four years ago, though my experience was that he was pretty detached from the game. My understanding at the time though was that as scum, he was usually... was charming the word? Basically they felt he was more charismatic as scum? I don't remember, I'd have to look that up.

But I can't ignore it when a veteran player just doesn't seem to be trying.

Having recently come off playing against TSQ in person, he seemed to have a shit ton of passion and energy when playing, and he just had none here.

I don't know if that's as a result of being scum or if it's alignment unindicative and he just disliked the game for other reasons (including his shit with Hiplop).

My gut feeling is it's the former, since I kind of have a town read on TSQ.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I was town against TSQ-scum in Weather Mafia II. That was four years ago, though my experience was that he was pretty detached from the game. My understanding at the time though was that as scum, he was usually... was charming the word? Basically they felt he was more charismatic as scum? I don't remember, I'd have to look that up.

But I can't ignore it when a veteran player just doesn't seem to be trying.

Having recently come off playing against TSQ in person, he seemed to have a shit ton of passion and energy when playing, and he just had none here.

I don't know if that's as a result of being scum or if it's alignment unindicative and he just disliked the game for other reasons (including his shit with Hiplop).

My gut feeling is it's the former, since I kind of have a town read on TSQ.

Your gut feeling is that it's a result of being scum since you have a townread on TSQ?

I'm saying TSQ was lurkingg and felt like he wasn't into the game.

So I'm not sure if that's because TSQ as scum and was doing it intentionallly (or unintentionally? maybe he hates being scum? IDK)

Or if he was doing it as a result of hating the game and the whole hiplop situation.

I finished by saying that I think it's the second one becaus eI have a town read on TSQ.

Is that clearer?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

...

Oh.

I'm fucking retarded, it's 6 am and I haven't slept all night.

Give me a break. >.>

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I was town against TSQ-scum in Weather Mafia II. That was four years ago, though my experience was that he was pretty detached from the game. My understanding at the time though was that as scum, he was usually... was charming the word? Basically they felt he was more charismatic as scum? I don't remember, I'd have to look that up.

But I can't ignore it when a veteran player just doesn't seem to be trying.

Having recently come off playing against TSQ in person, he seemed to have a shit ton of passion and energy when playing, and he just had none here.

I don't know if that's as a result of being scum or if it's alignment unindicative and he just disliked the game for other reasons (including his shit with Hiplop).

My gut feeling is it's the former, since I kind of have a town read on TSQ.

Your gut feeling is that it's a result of being scum since you have a townread on TSQ?

I'm saying TSQ was lurkingg and felt like he wasn't into the game.

So I'm not sure if that's because TSQ as scum and was doing it intentionallly (or unintentionally? maybe he hates being scum? IDK)

Or if he was doing it as a result of hating the game and the whole hiplop situation.

I finished by saying that I think it's the second one becaus eI have a town read on TSQ.

Is that clearer?

No, you finished by saying it was the former, which means first, possibility. Latter would have been second, hence my confusion.

yeh, my bad.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Kuribo, I like how you coincidentally missed all the pressure I put on light which was a major factor in that wagon being created when you mentioned the light wagon, and then just kind of boiled the interactions between Light and I down to "LLD [and Hebi] hop onto the Light wagon here. "

Are you reading or just skimming?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like fucking Page 18 is where I start putting pressure on Light, Kuribo.

Guess how many votes Light had at the time? 0.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I mean that's fair enough, but if you're going to keep making statements like "Oh I'm concerned with LLD" and then you're going to turn around and literally post misinformation about me and my actions from the previous day, I'm going to question your shit.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

You can question that if you want, but honestly I can't really place why you feel off to me on day 1

and it's not "literally posting misinformation," 1- my notes are pretty much just for me to follow. I put them in the thread because I figured it might save me some time from people saying shit like "wait why do you lean scum on me" 2- there was a loooooong time between you questioning light and voting her (when she had six votes), in between which TSQ and hiplop exploded and dominated the thread

and yeah, i have concerns about you. it's just the way it is. i don't want you lynched today, so don't worry about it.

Yeah, and that was a result of me deciding I was uncertain enough about Light to want to exert pressure on her.

I didn't expect to go the fuck to sleep and wake up to Light being FUCKING QUICKHAMMERED.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

and yes Kuribo it IS posting misinformation. You can claim whatever the fuck you like about how they're "just your notes" but people read that shit and when you're misrepresenting how I handled the Light wagon and my position and actions wrt Light, it's not fucking kosher with me.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I am MORE than happy with a Creature lynch today.

I have wanted that fuck dead ever since like, the start of this day.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Ever since Posts 851 and 875, actually.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Reasoning?

Who said it was about reasoning?

This is a gut read, SON.

And that reaction to my declaration is almost as bad.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Alright, finished Day 1, here's my notes and where I'm sitting with my reads at the moment. anyone i havent mentioned is pretty much just white noise to me at this point

Spoiler:

Muffin buddying house? Page 3
House: "Accusing people of trying to look busy in the opening of a game is just silly." agreed
Fire questions LLD's anger
Katsuki votes GI, could have gone after an easier D1 target
TSQ votes UTL for "inactivity" on... page 5?
Lotta shitposting from everyone first few pages, nothing new
Aris and Kats wanna be neighborized, not sure how i feel bout that, maybe a town tell for katsuki
UTL's post is annoying, thinks IAI is fakeposting
wasn't i scum with IAI one time? need to go back and check on that (death note maybe or was that someone else or)
yaaaaay 6 pages down only a thousand fucking more to go plz kill me
Ceph good point regarding House claim, house is fucked if someone else flips strongman
keep an eye on grey, can't read him for shit anyway
ceph vocalizes whether or not scum got a chance to strategize. pretty sure thats in the rules? possible town tell. yup there it is, scum were able to coordinate
GI thinks that was a fake towntell, i disagree, it's entirely too stupid to pretend not to get
Kats agrees with GI about the towntell, ceph says he could have faked it as scum, but i mean, thats pretty fuckin sloppy for a fake post so
GI and Kats tag teaming Fire
UTL claiming maybe scum would take neighborizer. Why? Neighborizer is pretty fucking useless regardless of alignment.
Spiffeh not liking IAI's 103 ("is this serious i almost deprived scum of a role too?") and I don't quite disagree so
Spiffeh also not liking Aristo's saying the strongman claim is scummy. not a fan of it either
UTL brings up light to Spiffeh out of nowhere
hebichan claims to have decided he wanted neighborizer before learning his alignment. not a fan of that argument.
SuddenlyARabbit is fresh meat and mentions that. if he's scum, he's way in over his head in this game.
disagree with hebi in 215 re spiff
UTL accuses hebi of being defensive, i didn't see it that way
UTL reaching out to the newbie but the interaction just feels off to me
ceph with a snarky reply to UA's ninja claim, not liking that
ZZZX is shitposting, no content here
Aristo questions whether UA won ninja. says its important, pretty fucking obvious the answer to this question tho
UTL throwing shade on both strongman and ninja going to town, pretty pointless there
Aristo repeats his question despite it being a total of maybe eight minutes since he asked. what was the point of that
Aristo questions why UTL doesn't believe
like, lets be clear here, they didn't "just happen to steal" strongman, at least in my case my predecessor chose to piss all of his points away on stupid shit. it wasn't a matter of coincidence, it's a conscientious decision on his part.
House questioning UA's claim, but that's pretty short sighted. 1- what's the point of telling people you're a ninja if you're scum? 2- Isn't there the possibility for an auction cop? GI insinuated that there was. 3- Claiming that strongman is more valuable than ninja, i mean, that's kinda subjective and depends on if you think town would go for protective vs information
UTL again questioning it, but heres the thing, they don't have to coordinate to have the exact same idea, because im pretty sure denying roles to scum is a thing that happens in PYP
Agree with house re: Aristo and UTL interaction being backward
This argument from UTL just looks like shit
jesus fuck, only 12 pages down
Ceph saying 100 on scum power roles is a good move for scum. agreed
If no other townie claims to have put 100 into strongman, then they wasted their points unless House got it. And since he's being cagey about that fact, I don't think he did.
Agree with Grey that town would have claimed to wasted their points
Grey with a disingenuous notion that UA "is VLA enough to pop in and respond." This was literally several minutes after his first post of the game, he most likely had time to post on site and saw there was more going on in the thread? How is that "popping up" when he was already around?
Ceph defending Spiffeh, eh
Agree with kats that the other person / people who spent 100 on strongman should claim
IAI taking shots at UTL, wants UTL dead, can't disagree on that
Muffin town reading UTL
Kats calls Ceph confirmed town, I wouldn't go that far but he's pretty fucking town
I don't have a solid read on katsuki yet
TSQ not posting much, similar to weather mafia 2 but that was like four years ago
Spiffeh could go for Aristo, agreed there
hiplop going after TSQ, can't say I hate that
ganski feels IAI's posts feel fake, spiffeh does not
Aristo: "ha ha, you're right, my play is bullshit, and you're town for noticing!" fuck outta here
Aristo likes IAI
Fire thinks LLD is town and GI scum; Defends IAI
Spiffeh points out that Aristo's posting history is bullshit
UTL going after TSQ for not posting
Don't like Katsuki going after TSQ
FA telling Katsuki of all people that he knows little of rage made me laugh
FA being really condescending toward Kats
TSQ's rage feels town to me
Aristo doesn't have reads, surprise surprise
why the fuck does hiplop vote Spiffeh?
Aristo shitposting again, correcting UTL's gender
TSQ calling out Aristo
Aristo calling Spiffeh town
TSQ saying aristo's posts are like furniture but he's wrong at least furniture is useful
TSQ trying to get aristo to make any post of substance, I like this push
ARisto defending GI
Aristo thinks Kats is scum but not worth pursuing
House thinks Aristo is scum, no argument there
Fire going hard after GI
Muffin doesn't think Aristo is scum
Aristo finally gives some reads: LLD / TSQ / House / Fire / Spiffeh town, Kats, ZZZX, UTL, Light, Ceph scum. Reads feel "Safe"
Aristo calls GI scum and votes the newbie
IAI calls LLD scum, asks her why she's mad, she's LLD, she's always mad
Aristo disagrees with hebi that IAI is scummy
Muffin votes Grey
hiplop with a nebulous vote on Aristo
Light wagon starts here
shotty doesn't like IAI, hey if you evber come back to the site, at least we agree on one thing
I'm really not liking hiplop's potshots
UTL jumps on the light bandwagon, don't like the timing
Fire reaaally wants grey dead
Like at this point, light is hard to defend because his play has been shit, so this wagon isn't giving me much
Shotty votes hiplop, again, no argument from me
hiplop replaces out, I don't see it as alignment indicative
Aristo immediately buddies creature
LLD and hebi hopping onto light, also don't like the timing there. one of them might be scum.
IAI making some pretty shit arguments. Townreading hiplop and suspecting light, lol
Shotty saying Shea blew things out of proportion (maybe) but that replacing out was a ploy to get hiplop to replace out. No, that's ass-backwards, that's not a thing that happens because TSQ would have no way of knowing hiplop would leave.
Spiffeh calls UTL town... but why?
Spiffeh goes after IAI, good posting
IAI seems upset that Spiffeh is scumreading him
shotty moves to IAI
IAI and Ceph sniping at one another
IAI hammers before light can post
Creature is right, IAI hammered his own wagon which had come up as a counter
Muffin says the hammer was forced if light is town, yuup
IAI trololo my bad
Fire Assassin killed N1, i have theories about this and i've often said night kills are underanalyzed on this site. his death incriminates GI heavily. Like, he literally had exactly one scum read, his posting wasn't particularly town, and if no one has stepped forward to say he was vigged then he was killed for his reads.

Spiffeh- town posting and critical thinking
hebi- probably town unless confident scum player
House- probably town due to arrogance / claim
ceph- town tell in 161
UTL- scum from interactions and role spec
Aristo- scum from his interactions
TSQ- town for interactions with hiplop / general posting when he's around
Creature- lean scum, hiplop was super scummy to me, Creature a little less so but still
LLD- No strong read yet, worrying
GI- Possible scum due to Fire death
IAI- Null to scum

Where is your read on Muffin and would you lynch Muffin for the blood god today?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Genuine question, Piegirl: Do you genuinely expect anyone to read your back to back 2000+ word posts, or are they there solely for the purpose of desperately trying to save muffin from being lynched today?

Because I can't seem to understand who these posts are directed at. Who are you trying to talk to here? I can't imagine that you genuinely believe that kind of posting is meant to talk to anyone.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Pieguy town; LLD scum.

Next?

You can kiss my ass. I am not alone in refusing to read giant fucking walls of content that seems to repeat itself multiple times, and I'm asking a fuckign legitimate question from a slot I have serious fucking concerns about.

I'm really fucking glad you decided to just pop in and give Piegirl a fucking out not to answer my god damned questions though, thanks for that.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Genuine question, Piegirl: Do you genuinely expect anyone to read your back to back 2000+ word posts, or are they there solely for the purpose of desperately trying to save muffin from being lynched today?

Because I can't seem to understand who these posts are directed at. Who are you trying to talk to here? I can't imagine that you genuinely believe that kind of posting is meant to talk to anyone.

they aren't directed to anyone in particular. if people want to read them, OK. more importantly, if it comes up later and someone seeks explanation for any of my reads, it already exists in the thread so that I can direct them to it.

I don't really know how this isn't obvious (especially given I've just replaced into this and I hadn't laid out any of my reads in-depth at all) and it makes me think you're mostly just trying to encourage people to skip over my posts. I also think it's kind of funny that you specifically asked me why zmuffin is town earlier, yet you can't see why I would post that for people who don't mind longer posts.

So what you're saying is that you're doing it for how it looks, instead of trying to convince anyone?

Any I interpreting that incorrectly?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I asked you a question and you didn't answer me directly.

Infact this is the fucking first time you've come talk to me one on one, let alone discuss me in any of your reads, as far as I can really tell.

This assertion that I'm trying to "make people not read your posts" is the most utter tripe, because people are going to read what they want, when they want. I'm not fucking in control of that, and you trying to sell that is fucking really shifty.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

tbh i read all of #1812 but then i am very self-absorbed so of course i would

i realise that lengthy walls aren't the best way to convey information, but pieguyn's #1812 at least accurately captures the greyice v me stuff

from my pov

almost perfectly

but i doubt most of the people suggesting i'm scum will read either that post or the greyice v me stuff (i did summarise my pov in the first wall and then the posts starting with #1500 for anyone that doesn't want to read the whole thing... so even if you ignored all of my other posts on the matter, i feel those posts shouldn't be ignored, but hey, people who play mafia now seem to think it's cool to hate walls so whatever)

Yeah that's my issue, Muffin. See the bolded?

How frequently does Piegirl reference YOUR thoughts, or say "Muffin is correct" or simply defer to your perspective instead of justifying her own thoughts?

It doesn't feel like it's fucking real, it feels like a giant wall with the purpose of defending you and not directed at anyone or trying to convince anyone?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Why is LLD not being lynched, again?

Because I'm town and you're a cockmunch.

Catch up.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

when i say my pov, i don't mean, "pieguyn has access to my inner thoughts (and i may need to invest in tin foil)"

i mean that pieguyn was actually reading the posts and seeing what greyice was trying to do and what i was doing in response to it, instead of getting sidetracked... a lot of players seem to have different perspectives on what has or hasn't taken place between me and greyice, pieguyn is the first one to have actually read it and point out that greyice hasn't adequately addressed anything i've written, despite the fact that i spelled this out very clearly

i dunno, maybe "pov" wasn't the best word...

I'm not suggesting Pie has access to your inner thoughts.

I'm suggesting Pie is parrotting what you've been spouting for the last week and a half in one giant post, directed at no one, with the intent that "no one needs to read it" and telling me it's more or less just to create content that she can point to later on when people ask her about it.

Do you understand my issue with this?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i mean, maybe some of it is the fact

that he sees

what i was doing in certain posts and understands why i was doing it, so i guess that is part of it

he sees, for example, that any time greyice tried to steer the conversation in one direction, i tried to get it back on track, asking him for evidence, etc

i suppose that does qualify as seeing it from my pov in a way

If you're referring to Pie here, it's She.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

ftr, what I intended to do here was go more in-depth about the relevant reads (for purposes of this this was all my scum reads and the town read on zmuffin) after I finished reading the entirety of the game.

my other reads are mostly the same as they were before: {Aris, hebi, house, IAI, MURDERCAT, Spiffeh, ~zmuffin~} are all town. if anyone wants me to explain any of these reads or look at any of the remaining players in more depth, ask.

(and yes, I see all of your other posts, I'll respond to them and other posts I skipped over after posting this)

Dude, I don't want fucking "catch up later when I've had some time to think about it and post 2000 words that will cover how I really think" type posts.

I'm asking you questions, I prefer short answers. It's your prerogative to give me whatever kind of answer you like, but it's my prerogative to call those answers you give meaningless and empty.

That's the words I'm looking for. Your content, those 2 2000+ word posts feel meaningless and empty.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like, here's a question for you Piegirl: You think TSQ is scummy right?

What do you think of TSQ's interactions with Hiplop, and TSQ's lacking in activity leading to him flaking from the game? Do you think this is alignment indicative, if so why?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like you gave me 2000 words on TSQ's posting.

Now give me 200 or less on his intent behind his actions.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Why are you soft defending UTL like this? What's he done to earn it?

i don't think there's really anything soft about it.

i don't think she's scum (the only thing that bothers me is that she's been non-existent in this day phase) and i don't see good reason to think she's scum

your reasons for calling her scum look weak and i think what you're doing right now is probably something you have to do in your situation as scum; try to obfuscate things instead of provide real content

. rather than talk about the reasons for your reads (not just state them as fact, talk about them),

you're attempting to make me out as some sort of villain who is ignoring you or misrepresenting you or something like that,

when i've done no such thing. you just haven't adequately justified anything you've said about anyone so far, and this isn't exclusive to your current reads, i'm also talking about your reads on d1 as well

your fireassassin read was weak as shit and i don't even really care that it was wrong; the justification you gave for it made literally no sense to me and when i asked you about this d1 i got no response

your unexpectedanvil read (which you seem to not care so much about today) was also weak, and amounted to you trying to make it seem like him doing what he did then going V/LA was scum-motivated

today, your read on zzzx amounts to "hasn't done much" (which, while true, is just sad if this is your strongest read at the moment) and your read on UTL amounts to statements about what she's done that i don't think you can really justify...

like, you call things "theory" that aren't theory at all. e.g. the above post where you claim it's theory to say "it would be stupid of X to do Y as scum..." when that's not really theory at all... and apparently this is your grand evidence that she's scum

meh

like i can literally go through your posts and point out "theory" points in the same way. what you've said about hebichan, for example, fits the sort of definition you're using for "theory" here... does it make you scum?

With regards to the bolded part: Did you have a town read on UTL here? I'm not one to ask for why town reads exist because I think explaining town reads is anti-town, but if you could give me an idea behind where you may have gleamed a town read here, I'd like to see it. Because your wording suggests you had a "not-scum" read, or a "can't see why she's scum" read, which doesn't feel the same to me.

With regards to the italicized: Can you explain how the reads themselves are weak, as opposed to attacking him for not explaining them further here? You seem to imply that his reasons for reading UTL as scum here don't match up with your read on her, drawing back to your first point about "not seeing any reason for her to be scum", so I want to get into the meat and bones of it here, since you don't seem to elucidate on WHY his reads are weak, just attack him for not elaborating on them further.

With regards to the underlined: I know from personal experience talking ot you this game you have directly misrepresented me, so I find this statement to be kind of ringing with false offense at the accusation. This isn't really so much a question as an observation that, indeed, you do misrepresent poeple and it's a large part of why I'm voting you right now.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i think the intent there was to have a reference for why she's town-reading me

no one

needs

to read it, in the same way no one

needs

to read, say, my posts around #1501-#1507

but they're there for anyone who wants to ask for my opinion on something related to it, i've gone into rather lengthy detail about my thoughts on certain things, anyone is free to criticise any part of those if they feel they deserve criticism, but i don't expect everyone in the game to read it, i only expect people who are genuinely interesting in my thoughts to read it

i don't really have an issue with the length of it; the fact that people are less likely to read it doesn't make it a bad thing. she can also summarise the post and then use it as a reference when anyone asks her to elaborate. i've tried doing this but no one really gives a shit about details so i have just given up on it. that said, it's there and anyone is free to read it and criticise it if they think there's something to criticise in there

ive heard all the arguments about conciseness and the inefficiency of walls, but tbh, if you structure a wall properly and don't leave places that can be attacked (i like to think i've done this), there's nothing wrong with walls (other than the fact that some people have a stigma about them)

and yes, im bad with pronouns *shrug*

Ok, but isn't that a cop out? Are you going to actually answer my questions when I ask them, or are you just going to link me to your fucking wall of text?

Because that's my issue here. There are players like me who play on intent and emotion, and these walls are incredibly hard to garner that from because they inevitably end up soulless, at least from my experience with them.

So I wouldn't have as big of an issue with them if say, they were directed at someone that wasn't me (they aren't) or if they weren't being used as an excuse not to post further content on the subject (they are) and if they weren't done apparently with an intent to avoid questions, which is all I can summarize from my interaction with pie.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

like i can say, concisely, that greyice has avoided answering questions that i wanted answered for a long time while going off on a tangent about something that wasn't a very good point, greyice has directly misrepresented or lied about what i've said and done by pulling quotes out of context or just not bothering with quotes, greyice has repeatedly picked up on smaller issues rather than attacking the core behind the argument i've made, etc

does this mean anything if i don't have any evidence? is this going to make anyone actually read the evidence? because so far, the course of this game has been me arguing with greyice, people saying shit like "muffin is doing such and such..." and "greyice is making good points" followed by me going "no this is what ACTUALLY FUCKING HAPPENED" in some walls to put a stop to the idiocy and people going "tl;dr"

not walling got me nowhere because people don't read the arguments properly

walling gets me nowhere because people don't read full stop

*shrug*

Which questions has he avoided answering?

I want a list of them, in point form.

Like

Question 1: XYZ

No more than like, 50 words per question, please god.

I promise I will fucking hold him to answering them.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

So what you're saying is that you're doing it for how it looks, instead of trying to convince anyone?

Any I interpreting that incorrectly?

no, that isn't what I said at all...

say I'm trying to talk directly with someone to convince them that player X is scum. from there, the obvious question to ask is "why are you town reading X" from my POV or "why is X scum" from their POV. if I ask why they're town reading X, then obviously if I disagree with why I would want them to go into as much depth as possible on it so I can see if what they're saying is correct or not. if they ask me why I'm scum reading X, I would much rather have all of my thoughts consolidated in one place so I can point back to it, see which parts they agree/disagree with and why,

rather than having to constantly explain it over and over

(which leaves a lot more room for interpretation/attempting to manipulate the conversation).

there is also that some people actually do read long posts. until recently I've practically never ran into issues with people just handwave dismissing posts because they're "too long", even if they didn't read them in 100% detail.

I'm asking you questions, I prefer short answers. It's your prerogative to give me whatever kind of answer you like, but it's my prerogative to call those answers you give meaningless and empty.

yes, I mostly did it for myself. see above

Like, here's a question for you Piegirl: You think TSQ is scummy right?

What do you think of TSQ's interactions with Hiplop, and TSQ's lacking in activity leading to him flaking from the game? Do you think this is alignment indicative, if so why?

I think TSQ fading out of the game was entirely due to his RL, so it's completely null.

and yes, TSQ's hiplop interactions are a part of where my scum read on him comes from. I think rather than attempting to understand hiplop's reason for scum reading him, he jumped straight into trying to discredit hiplop and making hiplop look worse than him. 437 in particular came off contrived, it read more like he was trying to turn it into a scum read about "inactivity" (when this wasn't hiplop's point) so that he could pull up the fact that "he doesn't lurk as scum" in order to look like he was making a point.

With regards to the bolded: This is my issue. You're creating false content with the impression that you will use it later to avoid quesitons. Reads fucking change over time and with new content, Piegirl. This is a fucking cop out and I can't help but feel you're either REALLY lazy (which seems odd when you're putting that much effort into 2000 word posts) or DELIBERATELY trying to avoid quesitons in the future!

With regards to the italics: This is yet again what I was saying. Meaningless and empty content. It bothers me.

with regards to the underlined: I'm struggling to see this from your perspective, especially after you saw how Dan and Shea fought at Chicago meet. They fought, pissed each other off and they started ripping at each other. I'm not all that confident in the words that TSQ put out about hiplop either, but do you genuinely feel that is scum motivated, or is it an angry pissed off Shea who is confident in his read using anything he can to try and generate a hiplop lynch?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I asked you a question and you didn't answer me directly.

Infact this is the fucking first time you've come talk to me one on one, let alone discuss me in any of your reads, as far as I can really tell.

This assertion that I'm trying to "make people not read your posts" is the most utter tripe, because people are going to read what they want, when they want. I'm not fucking in control of that, and you trying to sell that is fucking really shifty.

which question was this?

and yes, I feel that if there are people saying "pieguyn wrote a huge wall which is mostly pointless", people will be less likely to read it (prompted or unprompted) than they would be otherwise.

I feel the opposite. I feel like people do what they're told not to, especially in a game as suspicious as mafia.

My complaints are for my own fucking purposes, and no one elses.

I will find you the post you did not respond to, one moment

[Lady Lambdadelta]

With regards to the bolded part: Did you have a town read on UTL here? I'm not one to ask for why town reads exist because I think explaining town reads is anti-town, but if you could give me an idea behind where you may have gleamed a town read here, I'd like to see it. Because your wording suggests you had a "not-scum" read, or a "can't see why she's scum" read, which doesn't feel the same to me.

i think some distinction needs to be made

i don't classify actions as "scum" or "town"; i classify all actions (regardless of how obvious they may seem) on a scale of town->scum and decide whether an action is more likely to come from town or scum based on whatever i decide is good criteria (my own personal opinion)

this is different from when i say i think someone is town or scum; that's the conclusion i come to from assessing actions.

so when i say "i've seen nothing that points to scum", i mean "

none of the actions she's done have been more likely scum than town, from my perspective"

i explained the read in i *think* 1507

Isn't this the definition of a null read?

Or do you assume people town until shown evidence otherwise?

I'll go read 1505 and come back to you.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Which questions has he avoided answering?

I want a list of them, in point form.

Like

Question 1: XYZ

No more than like, 50 words per question, please god.

I promise I will fucking hold him to answering them.

for starters, all of the questions i asked him in 941 went unanswered for the entirety of my conversation with him. these aren't as relevant now, but this was the entire point i was making during my conversation with him. he never went into any depth about his read on UTL, he never answered my questions about his reasons for the read when i explicitly asked why or stated i disagreed, but he claims he tried to have a conversation with me...

only recently has he sort of kinda tried to answer this in 1516 (where he insinuates that i lied about him not doing this before), and not only does he skip over the actual reason for some of the votes (because they weren't in the post where the vote occurred, kind of like what kuribo did with you), but he completely skipped the hebichan one...

also, i've been asking him for evidence that i lied and all that sort of thing. it would take an incredibly long time to go over the entire conversation and pull up all the questions i've asked him to answer...

Dude, then hit the fucking high notes. IDGAF how complete it is, I just want a list of things you want GreyICE to answer for and I'll fucking hold him to answering them.

Are you genuinely like.... this is my issue, you say you want him to answer questions but when I offer you support to fucking crucify him if he doens't answer them for me, you back off and tell me how long it would take.

Grow a set and fucking do it if you want my bloody help. I need one, concise post I can keep throwing in his face so he can't dodge and weave (whcih you're claiming he's doing).

Just one.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

It's not? But it's no reason not to.

so you switched because... ?

believe me, if *I'm* town reading him to the extent I am and I have literally no reservations or doubts about it, despite the fact the majority of games I've had with him are scum games where he usually plays really well and mindfucks everyone... you better fucking believe his play is town. if you disagree let me know why and I'll get to it later (probably tomorrow).

This is some bullshit meta shit and you're fucking better than this, piegirl.

Like, why don't you explain to me what about his PLAY and INTENT are town without referring to prior games or how your "experience" with him shapes your ability to read him, ESPECIALLY since you've JUST ADMITTED that his scum play is "so good" and "mindfucks you"

.

So this confidence you have is ringing really fucking false to me.

I'm referring to this, Piegirl.

I asked for play and intent and you gave me a giant wall.

I'm certain you know me enough to know that's not what I wanted from you, so I'm going to assume you missed or ignored this and wrote your "big post for yourself" without any thought to the bolded.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Isn't this the definition of a null read?

Or do you assume people town until shown evidence otherwise?

I'll go read 1505 and come back to you.

yes, that would be a null read if i didn't think some actions were more likely to come from town than scum

for example, my read on ZZZX and randomidget at the start of today was just that; i haven't seen them do anything "scummy" but i haven't seen any reason to think they're town, thus they were in a pool of players i thought should be dead

Ok.

And did you have any of those actions you felt were town then?

Like I feel like I am having to force you to jump through hoops just to answer my fucking questions or do things and it's really pissing me off Muffin.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Why are you soft defending UTL like this? What's he done to earn it?

i don't think there's really anything soft about it.

i don't think she's scum (the only thing that bothers me is that she's been non-existent in this day phase) and i don't see good reason to think she's scum

your reasons for calling her scum look weak and i think what you're doing right now is probably something you have to do in your situation as scum; try to obfuscate things instead of provide real content

. rather than talk about the reasons for your reads (not just state them as fact, talk about them),

you're attempting to make me out as some sort of villain who is ignoring you or misrepresenting you or something like that,

when i've done no such thing. you just haven't adequately justified anything you've said about anyone so far, and this isn't exclusive to your current reads, i'm also talking about your reads on d1 as well

your fireassassin read was weak as shit and i don't even really care that it was wrong; the justification you gave for it made literally no sense to me and when i asked you about this d1 i got no response

your unexpectedanvil read (which you seem to not care so much about today) was also weak, and amounted to you trying to make it seem like him doing what he did then going V/LA was scum-motivated

today, your read on zzzx amounts to "hasn't done much" (which, while true, is just sad if this is your strongest read at the moment) and your read on UTL amounts to statements about what she's done that i don't think you can really justify...

like, you call things "theory" that aren't theory at all. e.g. the above post where you claim it's theory to say "it would be stupid of X to do Y as scum..." when that's not really theory at all... and apparently this is your grand evidence that she's scum

meh

like i can literally go through your posts and point out "theory" points in the same way. what you've said about hebichan, for example, fits the sort of definition you're using for "theory" here... does it make you scum?

With regards to the bolded part: Did you have a town read on UTL here? I'm not one to ask for why town reads exist because I think explaining town reads is anti-town, but if you could give me an idea behind where you may have gleamed a town read here, I'd like to see it. Because your wording suggests you had a "not-scum" read, or a "can't see why she's scum" read, which doesn't feel the same to me.

With regards to the italicized: Can you explain how the reads themselves are weak, as opposed to attacking him for not explaining them further here? You seem to imply that his reasons for reading UTL as scum here don't match up with your read on her, drawing back to your first point about "not seeing any reason for her to be scum", so I want to get into the meat and bones of it here, since you don't seem to elucidate on WHY his reads are weak, just attack him for not elaborating on them further.

With regards to the underlined: I know from personal experience talking ot you this game you have directly misrepresented me, so I find this statement to be kind of ringing with false offense at the accusation. This isn't really so much a question as an observation that, indeed, you do misrepresent poeple and it's a large part of why I'm voting you right now.

Also, please answer the question about the italicized here, Muffin. Thanks.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

And finally...

Don't go fucking telling me this was some weak ass town read here you scum sack of shit. You don't get to back out of this.

Do you know why I asked about what you thought was weak about her vote and her posts in general D1? Because my initial read on her came from the points she was making against hebichan. I alluded to this in #353, right before I mentioned my town read on her.

Do I think she was making particularly good points about hebichan?

Me

God no, but I didn't think they were coming from a scum player trying to push a mislynch.

Everything about her D1 play came off looking town to me, from her demeanour, to the reasoning for her pushes, to little stupid things like, "whoops confused my games," that happened in #210. I didn't mind her switch from hebichan to thestatusquo because it didn't feel like scum thinking, "oh, I need another easy target," it felt like someone acknowledging that maybe they needed to get out of a potential confirmation bias loop. Scum can also do this, I suppose, but that wasn't the impression I got at the time.

I acknowledge that it's not impossible for scum to make posts that seem strong in the early game. I also acknowledge that it's possible I'm reading things incorrectly. But do I think she's done anything to warrant a scum read? No, not really. Which is what I mean when I say that my only qualm with her is her lack of content as of late.

This

doesn't

imply a strong town read on her. This just means I've seen no strong reason to think she's scum and some reasons to think she's town. Do not fucking twist my words and make out as though my position is that she's incredibly unlikely to be scum or something like that. The reason I've been attacking you so hard about it is because your arguments have been complete and utter garbage (whoops, demeaning and belittling you again, my bad).

Ok so this shit is entirely different from your post in 1146.

So before I delve into your read on UTL, I'd like to know if your read changed on her between these two posts, or if this was some kind of "trap card activated" BS, because it feels like the latter and feels really fucking forced, dude.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i told you the actions i'm referring to are in #1505

her push on hebichan d1, for example, and her reaction to tsq are the main reasons i felt she was town d1

there's also stupid things that i know i shouldn't be town-reading her for but i do because that's how my brain works like the "6 scum" thing that i mentioned somewhere

i also don't think i've misrepresented anything you've done (you misunderstood what my actual point was)

as for the italics, i did explain this. i am directly referring to all the reasons he had given at that point (934 plus the "theory" stuff, which at that point was the two examples... i have gone into detail about why i didn't think those points were even valid - as in, didn't accurately describe her play, let alone good reasons to scum-read her, and the "theory" stuff he pointed out is stuff you can find in anyone's ISO; i have

done this

with greyice's posts myself to show how easy a point it is to make, ergo not a strong point, and since that was the only thing he'd elaborated on, i called his arguments weak

This is such fucking bullshit garbage.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

nothing changed between 1146 and that post, that was the reasoning behind my read the entire time

mmmmmmmmm.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Get me that list of questions, and I'll pressure him on them. Deadline's in like 2 days, so hurry yeah?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I've seen nothing that contradicts that and i have scum reads on them both individually, combined with a total lack of interaction from either of them

Also this isn't hyperbole - I think there's literally been no interaction between them so far (apart from lld's recent answer to magua' question)

and why is that scummy again, Muffin?

In a game where my explicit goal is to not rage out and turn this game into a fucking shit show, why is me not interacting with GreyICE such a scummy thing for you?

I've also tried to limit my interactions with you, because I hate your fucking guts. Is that fucking scummy?

Is your fucking assertion, you ultimate assclown, that because I'm not interacting with my fiancee, who I'm magically supposed to be able to read, despite mounds of evidence that I apparently cannot, somehow is indicitive of my alignment?

Or is it the fucking assertion that my pushes have seemed, using your own words " mechanical, ineffectual and without life". Because it seems to me that you're just pulling that out of your ass, given my interactions with UTL fucking got me asked to "tone it down" and my pressure on Light led to a wagon that maybe I would have been able to fucking analyse and use to determine light's alignment had some cockfuck not quickhammered it.

And so here I am having spent like 2 hours mulling over how to say this shit without getting fucking site banned.

And you're having a fuckin' laugh, misrepresenting my interactions for free because to this point I've refused to call you out on being the lying deceptive cunt you've been so far.

tl;dr: Eat a dick, Muffin.

Like I remain confident I have not misunderstood what you were saying when I described it in this post. I went so far as to fucking quote literal words you used (e.g: Mechanical ineffectual and without life).

So, the assertion you're making that I "misunderstood you" and you weren't misrepresenting my play or my position on this game is still such garbage to me.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Mechanical ineffectual and without life

that was my interpretation, not a misrepresentation

i could describe why i think that (and i think i did at some point). the questions you were asking in the early game didn't seem to be going anywhere and didn't seem to have much purpose. for example, the question that fireassassin notoriously did not answer was one i still feel served absolutely no purpose regardless of his answer, because it's not hard for scum to bullshit a reason there that has nothing to do with their alignment and it's also not hard for town to answer because it's really a theory question

I already explained I wasn't interested in the content of his answer so much as I was the way and how he answered it.

How is that hard to understand?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

What do you think of Muffin's town read on you?

i don't see how any answer given to this question is going to be useful if i don't first explain exactly where the read came from

(which i haven't done)

I'm less interested in the content of his answer, and more interested in how he chooses to respond to it?

I EVEN USED THE SAME WORDS RIGHT THE FUCK HERE mUFFINN

[Lady Lambdadelta]

MY QUESTIONS AREN'T ALWAYS ABOUT THE CONTENT.

OFTEN THEY'RE ABOUT HOW PEOPLE REACT.

I PLAY ON EMOTION AND INTENT AND REACTION AND CHOICES.

jesus this is exhausting

[Lady Lambdadelta]

that's not hard to understand, i just don't think any way in which it was answered was going to provide any insight at all to his alignment (and not answering is a way of answering it, or at least addressing it, so if that was the reason, then you should have gotten what you wanted)

i don't play like you (obviously), i just see what you do and interpret it, and the way i interpreted it is pretty much the same way fireassassin did; that it wasn't a question worth answering. that's not meant to offend you, that's just how i felt (and obviously fireassassin felt the same way)

I got what I wanted. Did it seem like I didn't?

Like, you say you're interpreting my actions as you can see but my issue is you're putting a lot of weight into understanding a method of playing and the way my mind works, when you know that you and I are on opposite ends of a spectrum in that manner.

In addition, you are also aware I was and am still trying to reduce how much rage I have in games, and I don't think I've seen you ever take that into account.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

With regards to the bolded: This is my issue. You're creating false content with the impression that you will use it later to avoid quesitons. Reads fucking change over time and with new content, Piegirl. This is a fucking cop out and I can't help but feel you're either REALLY lazy (which seems odd when you're putting that much effort into 2000 word posts) or DELIBERATELY trying to avoid quesitons in the future!

how is "I've already talked about this, do you agree/disagree with what I said in X" a cop-out or "avoiding questions"? and yeah, I'm aware reads change... so what? if my read changes then I can always just talk about why my read is how it is and why it changed, no?

with regards to the underlined: I'm struggling to see this from your perspective, especially after you saw how Dan and Shea fought at Chicago meet. They fought, pissed each other off and they started ripping at each other. I'm not all that confident in the words that TSQ put out about hiplop either, but do you genuinely feel that is scum motivated, or is it an angry pissed off Shea who is confident in his read using anything he can to try and generate a hiplop lynch?

I actually do not remember this whatsoever.

FTR that doesn't really change my impression of it. the last two lines of 437 read really contrived and like he was scrambling to find whatever he could to paint hiplop as scum (and I don't mean push him or try to lynch him, I mean writing things that give the impression that hiplop looks bad without actually being invested in pushing it). I would expect a town reaction to be more direct, i.e. "why the fuck are you pushing me for my activity" and not "tehe, hiplop is pushing a 'lurker lynch', this isn't a hiplop who is attempting to find scum".

I'm referring to this, Piegirl.

ya that wasn't intended as a response to that post. first off, there's enough depth to it where I don't think I can adequately break it down into concise points which are just a few sentences, but if you want me to try anyway:

I agreed with basically everything he wrote about ICE D1 and during the ICE exchange D2. ICE's pushes on FA and UA's slots D1 were weak as shit, I liked the way he called ICE out on it and I agreed with his reasoning.

I thought that the way he went about the ICE exchange D2 was blindingly obviously town. for a few reasons. the series of posts starting from 1500/1501 read strong town tonally. it essentially reads as "nope, you lied, now I'm going to pull up the entire conversation so everyone can see you lied and I will fucking end you". I agreed with basically all of it content-wise, too.

1380 was town as fuck, and no I don't really care about people saying "long posts aren't town" because that has nothing to do with it. that post is basically him summarizing the entire argument in a way where, if people actually read the post, they could go back and it would be absolutely clear where he was coming from. given ICE's approach there was basically just making shit up, flooding the thread and hoping people wouldn't think critically and realize this was what he was doing, this was the approach that made the most sense (and again, I agreed with basically all of it content-wise!).

I think you and ICE are pretty obviously wrong about him "trying to get people to avoid reading his argument". what he did in the above post is the exact opposite of that: he summarized it in one post so that people who were interested in it could read it more easily without getting confused by ICE misdirecting the conversation. the posts ICE is saying are him "trying to get people to avoid reading his argument" are really just him being upset that people complain about long posts without reading them, which is a complaint I can easily empathize with.

to expand on this, I also thought this (and subsequent posts he made) looked really town because I find town has a significant desire to get their arguments read, listened to, and not misinterpreted. so that's another reason I thought 1380 was really town. this is not the only time he did this, either, he did it several other times.

btw, now that I've wrote this and I (think I?) see what you're asking for, I feel like I should say that I actively dislike trying to push reads in this way, because what invariably happens is that people will selectively address points or misinterpret/misrepresent what I'm actually trying to say such that what I'm trying to argue doesn't actually get addressed. if it helps you read me, though, then go for it.

I will ensure to read and address this tomorrow, but let me offer you one comfort.

If anyone tries to misrepresent you after I've specifically asked you to play this way...

My title is there for a reason.

I'm not convinced you're town and I'll read this post tomrorow and see if that changes anything in my head, but I can promise you the above either way.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

and yes that does mean I'm exhausted and trying to fall asleep and having no real luck.

bleh.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Kuribo, between RM and Muffin, who are you more willing to currently lynch?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Muffin's posting seems town, more so than Grey's to me

It's hard to ignore the gunsmith result, but obviously a vig wouldn't out himself until there was reason. Such as a gunsmith result.

heb's posts about the matter are waaaaay out there, I'll elaborate more a little later

Not feeling RM as scum but mostly because of shotty' posts. And that's significant coming from me because shotty and I have had personal issues in the recent past. His posting felt really town, and so did the incredulity about being replaced

Kuribo, between RM and Muffin, who are you more willing to currently lynch?

Why are u so sure grey is town?

I'm not, but I've already explained my position on him or lynching him right now, and I don't think that he's going to be lynched in the next day and a half we have left.

So I'm currently looking at the 2 big wagons (Muffin at 7 votes, RM at 5 votes) and asking Kuribo which of the two he would lynch. If his answer is neither, my follow up question would be "Then who would you suggest that we wagon?"

I do love it when people cut in on my line of questioning before people answer the fucking question, forcing me to comment on my own fucking post and reducing the effectiveness of any interaction I have with them.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

As an addendum to that, if I was certain GreyICE was town I wouldn't be offering to help muffin hound him with questions he apparently hasn't answered.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I do love it when people cut in on my line of questioning before people answer the fucking question, forcing me to comment on my own fucking post and reducing the effectiveness of any interaction I have with them.

Feels fake.

You could have prevented any b reduction of effectiveness by simply waiting for an answer before providing your own.

You clearly have not played enough mafia to understand that people will happily take easy outs they are given when people question your questions or pushes.

It's the most frustrating thing in the world to me and I've had to talk to people like 5 or 6 times this game so it's fucking really pissed me off.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

but honestly I don't know why I'm talking to you about how I feel or about my emotions. It's clear you struggle to have any comprehension of how I play or feel at any time, because it's become yur schtick to pop in and claim my posting "feels fake" it seems.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I do love it when people cut in on my line of questioning before people answer the fucking question, forcing me to comment on my own fucking post and reducing the effectiveness of any interaction I have with them.

Feels fake.

You could have prevented any b reduction of effectiveness by simply waiting for an answer before providing your own.

You clearly have not played enough mafia to understand that people will happily take easy outs they are given when people question your questions or pushes.

It's the most frustrating thing in the world to me and I've had to talk to people like 5 or 6 times this game so it's fucking really pissed me off.

I've played enough to know "I'll answer your question after mine is answered first" is a perfectly fine way to defuse the problem.

Not really a solution, but sure.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I do love it when people cut in on my line of questioning before people answer the fucking question, forcing me to comment on my own fucking post and reducing the effectiveness of any interaction I have with them.

Feels fake.

You could have prevented any b reduction of effectiveness by simply waiting for an answer before providing your own.

You clearly have not played enough mafia to understand that people will happily take easy outs they are given when people question your questions or pushes.

It's the most frustrating thing in the world to me and I've had to talk to people like 5 or 6 times this game so it's fucking really pissed me off.

I've played enough to know "I'll answer your question after mine is answered first" is a perfectly fine way to defuse the problem.

Not really a solution, but sure.

The reason your post struck me as off is because there are circumstances where such a response doesn't help because the interloper provided an out... but this wasn't one of them.

I wasn't just being an asshole, though I understand the assumption.

Well, as I mentioned I've had to have this conversation with people a shit ton more than normal this game.

In addition, I have a bit of compulsion that if I see a post directed at me I NEED to answer it. I don't know if I'll be awake to answer it later.... it's a DID thing.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Kuribo how do you feel about Creature? What's your read there?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

This is giving me all kinds of bad juju vibes.

Kuribo, why is Muffin so town to you? Like, if you want to ignore the walls of shit Muffin and Grey threw, read how Muffin has treated me this game instead, because that's where my scum read is from.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

he's flipping town, btw. I actually have the exact opposite opinion of his switch onto IAI everyone else seems to have; I have no fucking idea why he would jump off of the zmuffin wagon as scum when more likely than not it's the only way he would save himself today. the only exception is if he had no intention of actually staying off the wagon and just wanted to WIFOM everyone, but then he'd look like obvious scum after he jumped back onto it, so ???

@LLD:

have you had a chance to read my response to you (and my other post directed to you) yet?

No, but I can do it right now if you like! Let me go find it.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

This is giving me all kinds of bad juju vibes.

Kuribo, why is Muffin so town to you? Like, if you want to ignore the walls of shit Muffin and Grey threw, read how Muffin has treated me this game instead, because that's where my scum read is from.

Because I'd feel like an idiot voting an uncounterclaimed vig whose walls I'm not reading

1) The counterclaim doesn't matter because his scum team could have bid on it and told him to claim it because it would be free. The only counterplay to scum claiming their buddies roles in this setup is the 1 shot auction cop, that we don't even know if anyone has or has already been used.

2) I just told you, read how he deals with me. He doesn't psot walls at me for the most part, so you can see what I see from my perspective.

Do that and come back and talk to me about your read, please.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like there are so many reasons why in this setup the fact that no one counter claimed muffin doesn't matter.

Especially because even if he IS telling the truth and DOES have the Paranoid Vig, that doesn't make him town, it just makes the Gunsmith result a false guilty.

So like, I don't understand the hesitation about that, I really don't.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

With regards to the bolded: This is my issue. You're creating false content with the impression that you will use it later to avoid quesitons. Reads fucking change over time and with new content, Piegirl. This is a fucking cop out and I can't help but feel you're either REALLY lazy (which seems odd when you're putting that much effort into 2000 word posts) or DELIBERATELY trying to avoid quesitons in the future!

how is "I've already talked about this, do you agree/disagree with what I said in X" a cop-out or "avoiding questions"? and yeah, I'm aware reads change... so what? if my read changes then I can always just talk about why my read is how it is and why it changed, no?

with regards to the underlined: I'm struggling to see this from your perspective, especially after you saw how Dan and Shea fought at Chicago meet. They fought, pissed each other off and they started ripping at each other. I'm not all that confident in the words that TSQ put out about hiplop either, but do you genuinely feel that is scum motivated, or is it an angry pissed off Shea who is confident in his read using anything he can to try and generate a hiplop lynch?

I actually do not remember this whatsoever.

FTR that doesn't really change my impression of it. the last two lines of 437 read really contrived and like he was scrambling to find whatever he could to paint hiplop as scum (and I don't mean push him or try to lynch him, I mean writing things that give the impression that hiplop looks bad without actually being invested in pushing it). I would expect a town reaction to be more direct, i.e. "why the fuck are you pushing me for my activity" and not "tehe, hiplop is pushing a 'lurker lynch', this isn't a hiplop who is attempting to find scum".

I'm referring to this, Piegirl.

ya that wasn't intended as a response to that post. first off, there's enough depth to it where I don't think I can adequately break it down into concise points which are just a few sentences, but if you want me to try anyway:

I agreed with basically everything he wrote about ICE D1 and during the ICE exchange D2. ICE's pushes on FA and UA's slots D1 were weak as shit, I liked the way he called ICE out on it and I agreed with his reasoning.

I thought that the way he went about the ICE exchange D2 was blindingly obviously town. for a few reasons. the series of posts starting from 1500/1501 read strong town tonally. it essentially reads as "nope, you lied, now I'm going to pull up the entire conversation so everyone can see you lied and I will fucking end you". I agreed with basically all of it content-wise, too.

1380 was town as fuck, and no I don't really care about people saying "long posts aren't town" because that has nothing to do with it. that post is basically him summarizing the entire argument in a way where, if people actually read the post, they could go back and it would be absolutely clear where he was coming from. given ICE's approach there was basically just making shit up, flooding the thread and hoping people wouldn't think critically and realize this was what he was doing, this was the approach that made the most sense (and again, I agreed with basically all of it content-wise!).

I think you and ICE are pretty obviously wrong about him "trying to get people to avoid reading his argument". what he did in the above post is the exact opposite of that: he summarized it in one post so that people who were interested in it could read it more easily without getting confused by ICE misdirecting the conversation. the posts ICE is saying are him "trying to get people to avoid reading his argument" are really just him being upset that people complain about long posts without reading them, which is a complaint I can easily empathize with.

to expand on this, I also thought this (and subsequent posts he made) looked really town because I find town has a significant desire to get their arguments read, listened to, and not misinterpreted. so that's another reason I thought 1380 was really town. this is not the only time he did this, either, he did it several other times.

btw, now that I've wrote this and I (think I?) see what you're asking for, I feel like I should say that I actively dislike trying to push reads in this way, because what invariably happens is that people will selectively address points or misinterpret/misrepresent what I'm actually trying to say such that what I'm trying to argue doesn't actually get addressed. if it helps you read me, though, then go for it.

To the first part: You're not producing original content then, you're just quoting a post with set motivations that are now kind of dead thaat you did a while back and throwing ti at people. I don't like it, as I mentioned I think it's either lazy or scummy and you don't seem lazy to me so it's like, I don't get why you'd do that over just answering questions each time. Sure it's frustrating, but it's how people develop changes in reads on you.

Plus it's 2000 words long and pains me to read but that's personal.

To the second part, I just don't see that interaction the same way as you. I'm not sure yet whether that's because you're scum and faking how you're seeing it because you view TSQ's slot as a mislynch, or because we just genuinely view this game VERY differently (we have different styles, there's not denying). this is a large part of why part 1 up there is such a big issue for me. You're enough of a question mark in my mind that I want you to be producing new content as much as possible in new situaitons so I can get a clearer read on you.

To the last part: How is it that you feel town has a significant desire to get their arguments heard and listened to, and yet you write 4000 words of posts that by your own admission are directed at no body, and not meant for anyoen but yourself?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

As long as you're back to talk about this with me before the lynch, Kuribo.

Because I still strongly prefer Muffin over RM here.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

and with that my stomach is telling me if I don't each she's going to tear through my stomach lining and cunt punch me so I'm going to make food and relax.

I'll be back later and/or intermittently to check in.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

This is giving me all kinds of bad juju vibes.

Kuribo, why is Muffin so town to you? Like, if you want to ignore the walls of shit Muffin and Grey threw, read how Muffin has treated me this game instead, because that's where my scum read is from.

Because I'd feel like an idiot voting an uncounterclaimed vig whose walls I'm not reading

1) The counterclaim doesn't matter because his scum team could have bid on it and told him to claim it because it would be free. The only counterplay to scum claiming their buddies roles in this setup is the 1 shot auction cop, that we don't even know if anyone has or has already been used.

2) I just told you, read how he deals with me. He doesn't psot walls at me for the most part, so you can see what I see from my perspective.

Do that and come back and talk to me about your read, please.

Ok but it won't be till tonight since I'm about to do dinner and a movie

Oh, and also:

Enjoy your night out dude. :3

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I would wagon creature in a heartbeat.

How many people do we have online that would vote Creature?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

it's not just him, it's literally no one.

where has anyone at all posted any coherent reason for ICE being town in this game - and I don't mean "this seems town" or "he's making good points", I mean actually breaking his posts down and explaining *why* they're actually town and why they would not have come from scum?

I am fully aware that some people don't explain their reads, but this is ridiculous.

p-edit: flashwagoning Magua is something I've considered too, ftr, but I don't know if we can get all the way to 9 votes with it

"coherent reason" is such a hilarious thing to hear from you, given how we've just discussed your fucking wall posting and how it's bloody incoherent.

When someone like Katsuki, he rarely posts anything over 20 or so words in length tells you "gut" and you call it "incoherent", it's the same as when I tell you your wall posts are fucking obnoxious.

So you don't get it both ways. People play differently than you, and while some people are willing to meet you half way, others just aren't.

I take it you've never played with Cogito Ergo Sum, yeah?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Sorry, my reads basically consist of scanning and very rarely I actually skim enough.

CAN WE LYNCH THIS PLEASE

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I won't lynch Ari. Ari's fucking town.

Cephrir, would you lynch creature?

Spiffeh would you lynch Creature?

Pie, would you lynch creature?

Hebi, would you lynch creature?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

The only flash wagon I would support at this point is Katsuki

Fuck off, Katsuki is so fucking town, lmfao.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Katuski, would you support a Creature lynch?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

The thing that bugs me about aristophanes is mostly that his happy tone doesn't seem like it belongs in a game that has kind of been a huge shitshow. I think that's it at least. I claim no confidence regarding anything at this moment though.

Maybe we should just lynch random idfk

We're kinda approaching deadline dude, try to get at least some handle on the game, even if you want to ignore the muffin gi stuff

Yes, I'd lynch creature

2.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Katsuki not only isn't so fucking town he also has never ever been so fucking town ever.

Yes I would lynch creature.

3.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

"coherent reason" is such a hilarious thing to hear from you, given how we've just discussed your fucking wall posting and how it's bloody incoherent.

you know that everyone who's actually read it has agreed with the majority of what I'm writing, right? and that, to my knowledge, none of the players who haven't read it have commented on my tl;dr version of it I gave you either?

I would support a Creature lynch. as well as a Magua lynch if we can get enough support for it.

4.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm here.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

See, you say that but then you want me to compromise.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

See, you say that but then you want me to compromise.

And it's obvious why you won't.

Oh I will.

But it's just the ultimate in hypocracy.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Vote: RM

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I don't know how much time we have left but it's not much and I'm not having day 3 be 2 more weeks of this shit

[Lady Lambdadelta]

like even now I'ms trongly considering replacing out, because this game is such fucking garbage.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I don't really get why anyone would be concerned about your alignment, you're as obviously town as they come pretty much :/

He's a big question mark in my mind. I don't like how he handled the wagons yesterday.

The other big question mark was Piegirl.

I asked Hebi to neighborize myself and one of those two, so I could take the time to read them one on one.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I don't really get why anyone would be concerned about your alignment, you're as obviously town as they come pretty much :/

He's a big question mark in my mind. I don't like how he handled the wagons yesterday.

The other big question mark was Piegirl.

I asked Hebi to neighborize myself and one of those two, so I could take the time to read them one on one.

I just don't get your reads at all :/

You know kuribo is the UnexpectedAnvil slot right?

Yeah? I got nothing out of that slot, like genuine nothing I could work with.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Yall seem to not know what Paranoid Vig is. It's the easiest thing in the world to get around. They wouldn't have needed to roleblock him.

it's easy to stop him from specifically targeting one person with it, but they would have if they wanted to prevent him from using it at all. he could have tried to shoot another one of his scum reads who wasn't ICE, and if he was mostly accurate on his other scum reads (which I'm like 99% sure he was to some extent), they would have had no other way of stopping it.

Ok but isn't it likely that scum could have easily protected almost all their members by targeting them all?

I think if he was roleblocked, it was for the self-doc, not the Paranoid Vig.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

also, GI is almost certainly scum here.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Especially if GI is claiming to have a Vanilla vig?

Like, if no one counter claims that, it makes Magua's echo look really fucking sketchy because the hope with killing Muffin is that GI somehow lives today based off WIFOM, I think?

Like why else kill Muffin?

So then having the extra vig is ???

But Magua is TSQ, and he looked town so IDK

[Lady Lambdadelta]

to me it's a question of who, if any, of Magua and MC are scum in addition.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Want to see what Murdercat's night action was.

I don't particularly buy GreyICE using a Vanilla Vig on zMuffinMan given that zMuffinMan specifically claimed actions that he'd won.

he's claiming it was a throw away ability, which is really bunk.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Especially if GI is claiming to have a Vanilla vig?

Like, if no one counter claims that, it makes Magua's echo look really fucking sketchy because the hope with killing Muffin is that GI somehow lives today based off WIFOM, I think?

Like why else kill Muffin?

So then having the extra vig is ???

But Magua is TSQ, and he looked town so IDK

My thought is that they were giving up on GI as screwed today regardless

Hmmm.

That's also possible.

If that's the case.... I need ot see MC's claim.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

it wouldn't surprise me if ICE claiming vanilla vig was entirely for the purpose of drawing a CC, btw.

hmmmm

Didn't even consider this.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

But it's totally somethign he'd do. He did it in Mafia Behind the Maiden when he was going to be lycnhed.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

1-Shot Role-specific blocker

Target a role. If successful, any player who won any copy of that role in the auction will be blocked.

UMMM...

LOL?

What am I meant to be seeing here?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

1-Shot Role-specific blocker

Target a role. If successful, any player who won any copy of that role in the auction will be blocked.

UMMM...

LOL?

What am I meant to be seeing here?

Doesn't matter what role they use that night, only that they have that role, then ANY ROLE they use will be blocked.

Oh.

OH.

So... he just claimed to.....

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAH

[Lady Lambdadelta]

MURDERCAT claimed he used role-specific blocker last night, and he showed up as visiting zmuffin, but role-specific blocker doesn't target another player.

No yeah, this.

THIS.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

MURDERCAT claimed he used role-specific blocker last night, and he showed up as visiting zmuffin, but role-specific blocker doesn't target another player.

No yeah, this.

THIS.

Er, may as well ask.

Mod, does this work the way we think it does, or does the player who used this show up as targeting the player as well?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Hi I'm the cop and GreyICE is aligned with the Mafia so he dies today

I suck

FUCKING ROFL

THIS GAME

Hilarious.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

MURDERCAT claimed he used role-specific blocker last night, and he showed up as visiting zmuffin, but role-specific blocker doesn't target another player.

No yeah, this.

THIS.

Er, may as well ask.

Mod, does this work the way we think it does, or does the player who used this show up as targeting the player as well?

The role-specific blocker targets a role; it does not target any players.

Ok, 2 down.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

/honorable bow

dayvig needs to shoot now, btw; if it doesn't, we should operate under the assumption scum has it and is saving it.

Doesn't exist.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Only question we have for today is "Which one of these two scumfucks is more likely to have an ability that they can use tonight?"

Since they both just straight up lied about their shit, apparently.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

It does, but I don't know if it works in real-time or only at the end of the day.

No I'm saying there's no Day Vig in this game, not that there's no Day Vig in this setup.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Only question we have for today is "Which one of these two scumfucks is more likely to have an ability that they can use tonight?"

Since they both just straight up lied about their shit, apparently.

I'd argue GI is more dangerous due to having more charisma.

We can't let him off the hook another day

Neither of these scum fucks is living past day 4 so... ???

[Lady Lambdadelta]

but I agree GI is more likely to have abilities left so

[Lady Lambdadelta]

It does, but I don't know if it works in real-time or only at the end of the day.

No I'm saying there's no Day Vig in this game, not that there's no Day Vig in this setup.

How do you know that?

This should be obvious.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Only question we have for today is "Which one of these two scumfucks is more likely to have an ability that they can use tonight?"

Since they both just straight up lied about their shit, apparently.

I'd argue GI is more dangerous due to having more charisma.

We can't let him off the hook another day

Neither of these scum fucks is living past day 4 so... ???

But your question is which should die first. We're debating the order, not the process

Yeah, but we're debating of merit on "which has abilities" not "which is more liekly to avoid a lynch"

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Creature and IAI.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

nah, this ain't happening.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

IAI just get on with it so we can lynch MURDERCAT please

Having everyone's top two scumspects for you to reveal what you have is really unnecessary and dragging out the day for no reason

Yeah, I'm starting to think this was just a ploy to get everyone to massclaim, so his "information" better be fucking amazing.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm very not convinced he's town.

I think massclaiming today is an awful idea when we

Already have a scum who we arre going to lynch

I think if we DO massclaim, IAI going last is dumb as bricks.

It should be done in order from "number of times your name was mentioned as being scum, descending" which should leave someone like Pie at the bottom, where she SHOULD be.

So yeah, no, fuck this noise.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Right, but we don't do massclaim based on who it would benefit most, we do popcorns based on "who is scummy and who isn't"

and creating a list is the whole opposite point of popcorn in the first place, so why should we do your list over popcorning?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm not claiming ever today so good luck with the massclaim because it won't involve me.

That's fine u were my target last night.

Should I tell everybody what you bid on?

Can I take a guess?

Was it 100 points on Dayvig?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm not claiming ever today so good luck with the massclaim because it won't involve me.

That's fine u were my target last night.

Should I tell everybody what you bid on?

Can I take a guess?

Was it 100 points on Dayvig?

Yep. So once he flips vanilla scum ur pretty much confirmed town

It's alignment neutral for Katsuki. I don't get why him bidding 100 on Dayvig makes him scum?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

That is quite possibly one of the most non-alignment indicative results on a player I have ever seen

He's still scum though

VOTE: MURDERCAT

U did see where LLD claimed a 100 point bid on day vig D3, right?

ok but what stops two townies, who can't communicate bids, from both bidding on the same item?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I have something, should I share it?

Use your judgement, but sure

[Lady Lambdadelta]

That is quite possibly one of the most non-alignment indicative results on a player I have ever seen

He's still scum though

VOTE: MURDERCAT

U did see where LLD claimed a 100 point bid on day vig D3, right?

ok but what stops two townies, who can't communicate bids, from both bidding on the same item?

LLD did you really bid 100 on dayvig knowing that I'm in the game? D:

Yes 100%.

Because if I got that fucking dayvig.

Guess who was getting a bullet in the face in my first post.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

That is quite possibly one of the most non-alignment indicative results on a player I have ever seen

He's still scum though

VOTE: MURDERCAT

U did see where LLD claimed a 100 point bid on day vig D3, right?

ok but what stops two townies, who can't communicate bids, from both bidding on the same item?

LLD did you really bid 100 on dayvig knowing that I'm in the game? D:

Yes 100%.

Because if I got that fucking dayvig.

Guess who was getting a bullet in the face in my first post.

A-a-after all we've been through?

See, here's the thing:

On one hand, it's not alignment indicative for you to bid 100 on Dayvig. That's you to a T, you'd do it as either alignment.

But I'm almost 100% certain you'd never bid on anything BUT 100 Dayvig as town in this setup.

So if by some miracle of the gods, I ended up with the dayvig, that would mean you chose NOT to bid 100 on it.

Which would have more or less convinced me you were scum.

That was my logic. In part. The other part is I wanted to fucking shoot someone in the god damned face because it's so fucking cathartic.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

If anyone else targeted Murdercat they need to say so now

We have a whole host of people we can clear of being able to do this, based upon things we know.

This should narrow down who could have done it.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Assuming anyone did do it and it's not just Magua being scum and lying about it.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Vote: Creature

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I have something, should I share it?

I bid 100 on dayvig.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

If you're a dayvig and you're aligned with town, shoot GreyICE/MURDERCAT.

It does, but I don't know if it works in real-time or only at the end of the day.

It does, but I don't know if it works in real-time or only at the end of the day.

No I'm saying there's no Day Vig in this game, not that there's no Day Vig in this setup.

How do you know that?

Oh nvm

[Lady Lambdadelta]

THIS.
FUCKING.
DIES.
TODAY.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

that's fine.

unvote:

p-edit: I have no opinion on those posts, but I wouldn't mind seeing what Creature says here.

NO OPINION?

NO FUCKING

PIE

I WILL END YOU.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

HE'S LITERALLY LYING ALL OVER THE PLACE WITH NO TOWN MOTIVATION FOR DOING SO.

LIKE

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I still suspect them but I think creature looks really terrible here

The one thing that gives me pause is I would expect vanilla scum to be making the kills but I tracked creature to nowhere on night 2

Right but didn't GI and Murdercat get watched to be on Muffin that night?

And since Murdercat flipped to only have one role (gunsmith) which he apparently used night 1, that would make him vanilla, and sent to do the kill.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Right but didn't GI and Murdercat get watched to be on Muffin that night?

And since Murdercat flipped to only have one role (gunsmith) which he apparently used night 1, that would make him vanilla, and sent to do the kill.

my working assumption is that ICE used a roleblock on zmuffin N2 while MURDERCAT killed him. thus, Creature being tracked nowhere doesn't clear him.

yeah that's what I was saying, more or less.

I was just adding that MC would have been a vanilla that night too, so it's not like Creature is less likely to be scum as a result of aythign like that (unless I misunderstood Ceph's statement)