Summer Waltz - [Game Over]

[Foxbird]

Making a first post without tossing an RVS vote feels weird.

Hey everyone!

[Foxbird]

Aww, thanks! <3

I took some time off, read a bunch of games, buckled up, and now I'm super determined.

[Foxbird]

Speaking of, has anyone here gone and read the previous iteration of the game?

I looked it over just now to see if they discussed setup breaking. As far as I saw, they didn't, the First Dance started on page 15. Seemed to be a short game, though, it's only 48 pages and that includes post-game talk.

Not sure what I think about this convo though. On the one hand, I guess it'd be nice to score a town win, on the other hand... I actually wanna play? Meh. Plus, as others have said, I'd trust proper reads over betting on RVS shenanigans. If I get paired with someone who seems scummy I'm willing to leave, obviously.

[Foxbird]

I do wonder.
If scum will have at least 1 of each or if due to the shenanigans of RNG it's possible for scum to have all gentleman or all ladies.

In the other game it was two ladies and one gentleman. No scum were paired with each other.

That's exactly what it is. We're required to "lynch" in ladies rn. Since we don't even know if there's any scum in the pool, policy lynching might be a decent call.

Who would you PL?

[Foxbird]

Now that Pathfinder's over, doing a quick skim of the thread for gut reads:

Getting town vibes from Marquis, Spyre, pie, maybe the beeboy/Luna pair and Nahdia.

Not particularly liking Antihero, cy or Katsuki.

Everyone else is around null, I think.

TTH is interesting because she asked Cakez to dance at a point where I didn't see much reason to townread him and he was being critizised by beeboy. Not sure what the implications of that are just yet.

[Foxbird]

Frankly I can't read you for crap and I think you know that.

To me this is the key. Find someone you can cross read or else I'm taking that as a scum claim.

...a scum claim from the IC? What?

[Foxbird]

Frankly I can't read you for crap and I think you know that.

To me this is the key. Find someone you can cross read or else I'm taking that as a scum claim.

...a scum claim from the IC? What?

No first sentence was a comment on farside's quote, second sentence was directed to the group.

Ohh. Okay. That... makes more sense, yeah.

Right now it probably newearth, Bird, or Summer.

Where did this list come from?

I nullread them.

Don't you have a list of townread players you'd rather pair with?

[Foxbird]

Getting town vibes from Marquis, Spyre, pie, maybe the beeboy/Luna pair and Nahdia.

Not particularly liking Antihero, cy or Katsuki.

Pssssst.
With the exception of Marquis, I noticed that your townreads tend to come from the top half of the activity summary and your scumreads tend to come from the bottom.

What are the reasons for your scumreads?

Well, these are gut reads, so more content = more to read into. Beginning of D1 (or the functional equivalent) is also really nice scum lurking territory because it's such chaos.

I found Antihero's entrance really awkward and there's been no town- or scumhunting since.
Other people already said that some of Cy's posts (like 143) aren't that great, and I agree. His only reads are Cakez (after multiple people already were suspicious of him) and Nahdia, who didn't produce a lot of content in comparison to many others. He also just kinda laughed off a scumread on him and hasn't said any more since. Combine that with the fact that scum have daytalk...
Katsuki only has two posts and they're one naked dance proposal and, uh, whatever 179 is.

pedit: I don't like ^^^228 either.

[Foxbird]

1) You're contradicting yourself lmao. You're saying you don't like my read on Cakez after other people have said it (and honestly with his last post I'm starting to change my mind *shurgs* (I may do an update of reads soon, idk yet)) and you literally start off the paragraph with "Other people already said" xD

2) This post included, I've made 9 post. Nahdia has 18, literally twice as much as me. How come your scum read is valid and mine is not when she has twich as many posts as me xDDD

3) I thought her posts were rather town oriented imo. If you look around most people base scum reads off of introductions feeling fake or not, and her intro felt genuine to me.

4) Can you explain your dislike for 228? Last time I checked town lost last game. I thought in a game like mafia, people would embrace being safe over sorry. Didn't people hastily commit suicide only to be wrong? Doing QL is doing the same thing and really seems like a bad idea, but w/e lmao.

1) I offered more than two reads total, and I just used it as a quick way to point out some things so I don't have to repeat what was already said. You conveniently left out the part where other people were frontlining your opinion.

2) My issue isn't between the amount of Nahdia's and your posts, it's that at that point many people had posted just as much or more than her, so why didn't you have reads on them? If you rely so much on people's introductions, as you say in the next point, you should have more than just a read on her.

3) I agree on the Nahdia read, I'm leaning town on her as well atm.

4)

I think I'm more or less in favor of the idea of QL'ing...to a point. I think we should have groups that we do want to lynch, but I don't think it should be quick. I think, with the time that's allotted, we should see the pairs that we want to lynch in action to make sure that we want to lynch them so we can avoid mislynches.

And yes, I realize that I'm the guy (well gal in this case) that people want to leave out of the dance or in a scummy relationship, and looking at what people from the last game said (particularly Farside), it's not the best just to go with our guts, because from what I've seen in other games, that doesn't always seem to work, but that's just me. *shrugs*

"I am kind of in favor of quicklynching, but without the quickness" is just describing normal lynch mechanics. Avoiding mislynches is normal lynch mechanics, if you're town. That part essentially says nothing whatsoever.
The second part just seems like a flimsy attempt to convince someone to dance with you, even though no one is townreading you.
To be fair, survivalism can be NAI.

[Foxbird]

Other people already said that some of Cy's posts (like 143) aren't that great, and I agree. His only reads are Cakez (after multiple people already were suspicious of him) and Nahdia, who didn't produce a lot of content in comparison to many others. He also just kinda laughed off a scumread on him and hasn't said any more since. Combine that with the fact that scum have daytalk...

Why is not having many reads scummy and why is scum having daytalk relevant here?

Scum have to fabricate reads so it makes sense to keep the number low.
If someone disappears after being scumread and scum has daytalk, it looks to me like they dove off to their PT to get advice, especially with the original post being glossed over like that.

I agree that Anti looks a lot better in his last few posts.

I'm still unsure on Cy tbh. His responses were okay, but in the list of ladies, he's probably still the one I'd not partner up with anyone.

I'm fine being paired up with one of the weaker townreads if it comes down to it. I'm fairly new and don't know any of you well enough to reliably read you, so I'd prefer the more experienced players to decide on the pairings first. This way, we don't lose someone more valuable by pairing them with someone who might still be scum. Getting the maximum number of town-y people that can read each other is still the priority.

[Foxbird]

I agree that Anti looks a lot better in his last few posts.

I'm still unsure on Cy tbh. His responses were okay, but in the list of ladies, he's probably still the one I'd not partner up with anyone.

I'm a little skeptical that you could be honestly assessing Antihero's posts and not know that Cy is already paired.

The pairing happened while I was doing something else, so I skimmed it. I honestly overlooked it and it makes me feel really stupid. I should probably learn to read Joining a Large Game was probably a bad idea.
The Antihero posts were practically directly in front of my last post, and they look a lot better than his entrance, so that's where that came from.

If Cy can't be left out, might be best for it to be me. Maybe TNE. Keep the one you think will get better reads on the gentlemen that are left. I could also do with what Cakez said one post above me. I'm fine either way.

pedit: threatening to suicide is basically WIFOM at this point though, it's been said multiple times that people are townreading others because of it

[Foxbird]

The Antihero posts were practically directly in front of my last post, and they look a lot better than his entrance, so that's where that came from.

He didn't give much in the way of reasoning for those posts on the page, so what were you townreading him for?

I didn't say I was townreading him, I said he looks a lot better. In more direct terms, nullscum to null/nulltown. The read improved because he went from stuff like 48 and 55 to actually figuring out the game, offering reads and making suggestions.

I feel like a lot of people here are basing their reads off of personal experience rather than the posts in here. That's all well and good (if town ends up winning) but man, I don't think I'll be of much value in this game.

I agree with {TTH, farside} pairing with {Marquis, Spyre}. I don't have many solid townreads in the gentlemen atm

[Foxbird]

The pairing happened while I was doing something else, so I skimmed it. I honestly overlooked it and it makes me feel really stupid. I should probably learn to read Joining a Large Game was probably a bad idea.
The Antihero posts were practically directly in front of my last post, and they look a lot better than his entrance, so that's where that came from.

If Cy can't be left out,

might be best for it to be me

. Maybe TNE. Keep the one you think will get better reads on the gentlemen that are left. I could also do with what Cakez said one post above me. I'm fine either way.

pedit: threatening to suicide is basically WIFOM at this point though, it's been said multiple times that people are townreading others because of it

Underlined would be gutsy for scum to throw out there, esp after Cy and Nahdia now have invitations. I also remember liking some of her earlier posts. I want Fox in the dance.

Who would you leave out, then?

[Foxbird]

I have been saying I want my top town reads to pair up all game.

Summer has been my top town read almost all game.

I have also been calling for that pair long before this last page.
Your second point is bullshit.

Anti is probably scum because his read progression on me is incredibly forced.

My bold.

Summer's first post was 217. Her last was 323, and there's only six posts total. We're now around 580. How does she become - and stay - your "top town read almost all game"? You were also convinced she was town after literally her first post. Something 's weird.

[Foxbird]

I have been saying I want my top town reads to pair up all game.

Summer has been my top town read almost all game.

I have also been calling for that pair long before this last page.
Your second point is bullshit.

Anti is probably scum because his read progression on me is incredibly forced.

My bold.

Summer's first post was 217. Her last was 323, and there's only six posts total. We're now around 580. How does she become - and stay - your "top town read almost all game"? You were also convinced she was town after literally her first post. Something 's weird.

I have half a case saved as a draft explaining why she is town for that 1 post.

Are you planning on showing that case at some point?

[Foxbird]

That's a lot of pages to wake up to. Time zones are silly.

I'm fine being left out or dancing with Map and suiciding/getting lynched early. I increasingly feel like it's one scum in the ladies (cy) and the rest in the gentlemen.

Will try and make a full readlist before I die but I just woke up and I'm not making a long past from my tablet.

[Foxbird]

Not feeling well but I wanna get this written down in case it matters later. I feel like one scum has me fooled into townreading them, but the trickier ones are to figure out on later days anyway.

{farside}
{Luna, TTH, pie}
{Spyre, beeboy}
{Antihero, Nahdia, Summer}
{IAI, Marquis, Cakez}
{Map, TNE}
{cy, Katsuki}

Spoiler: Some notes

beeboy

Regarding the beeboy case on Summer's towniness (657)... just because someone has the same thought process as you doesn't make them town, though I suppose seeing your opinions elsewhere does make you inclined to townread them. I don't agree that it would be the better scum move to parrot someone's reads, I see far more people suspecting others

because

the reads are nothing but copies of general opinion. I find the case rather weak for it to be the read rock to die on, so to speak, but I don't see the scum motivation behind it. I doubt Summer and beeboy are scum together. I also think Luna vs. beeboy is paranoid town vs. irritated town.

cy

I'm unsure. The whole "can only ever have three scumreads and if there's more than that, someone gets moved out of the scum section" seems counterproductive to town efforts. I also have absolutely zero understanding why I am a "strong town read", on par with people like Luna and TTH. The reasoning on his scum reads in 722 are also really flimsy and look more like justifications for null reads to me. Reads are all over the place.
Plus, paired with Katsuki. Would want that pair to get lynched first. Looks like Katsuki's planning to suicide though.

- I liked Marquis' start, but he's fallen off after that - very little content, did not explain the townread on Nahdia despite asking her to dance.
- Lots of people have softly retracted their scum pairing/suicide tactics. Marquis and Spyre come to mind. That was kinda predictable, I assume there'll be lots of flip-flopping around on D1 with "u leave" "no u". But, as always, survivalism can be NAI.
- Would want there to be a bit less tunneling (tunelling? ugh, the English language). Pie on Cakez and Luna on beeboy, specifically. A broader lens would be better.

Cutting here because people hate walls. Can answer questions later, I guess.

[Foxbird]

Pie on Cakez

I've moved past the phase where I lol-push him with no end in sight for troll reasons; I am now in the phase where I am legitimately hard pushing him because I have a bunch of really strong, objective reasons for him being scum. my scum read on him and my degree of confidence in it has been backed up, and if anyone wants to try to explain to me where I'm going wrong with my reasoning (its a wall post but it is not difficult to read and I highly recommend you do so if you haven't yet), I'm all ears.

I am not "tunneling"; it is that given things like him making up this narrative of how he gets mislynched so often when he's town... or inventing reasons for pushing me that are obviously false if you so much as read my posts... or the fact that his town play looks absolutely nothing like this game, it really is just that unlikely that he's town here.

I'm not doubting the certainty you have in your read, but do you have any other reads? Is a Cakez flip needed for you to have guesses on who the rest of the scum team is?

[Foxbird]

Between Summer and me?
Pick whoever you can read more transparently and/or that can read others better. It's that easy.

If Map asks the one to dance that's not consented on, lynch him with fire. If everyone agrees to keep Summer, I will decline the invitation in the first place.

Whoever's picked should expect to be lynched relatively early OR outright suicide if Map doesn't step up his game, anyway.

pedit: I've had to click the submit button like ten times because new posts keep popping up #savemyleftmousebutton

[Foxbird]

I'm super not comfortable with the fact that some are choosing "who's more useful"

I'd rather base it on "who's more scummierest"

same. there's always a chance of someone being scum and I see that being more likely with Foxbird.

letting it devolve into "who's more useful" makes Foxbird the perceived leader in that race, just because she's more active and makes longer posts with Capital Letters.

If you're scumreading me, by all means, leave me out. But there seem to be a lot of people who are townreading Summer and me, so what else do you wanna use as a criteria to decide?

Also I'm German. Don't talk to me or my unnecessary obsession with capital letters ever again. (

[Foxbird]

Is everyone okay with this invitation?
We still have a day, so I'll wait for people to give their input and accept either later today (~6 hours) or tomorrow morning (~15 hours).

[Foxbird]

Alright then.

I accept the invitation.

Let's

dance

.

(For probably only a short while because I still think you're scum.)

[Foxbird]

Well! I had fun, even though I didn't do much. I hope my newbness didn't disrupt anything too much. Large Themes are pretty different from everything else.

Good game, everyone! <3

[Foxbird]

Well! I had fun, even though I didn't do much. I hope my newbness didn't disrupt anything too much. Large Themes are pretty different from everything else.

Good game, everyone! <3

Nice reads by the way.

Thanks!