Katsuki's Madness Prequel II - Game Over

[springlullaby]

hallo, confirming. So many pages already, hope i'm not too late.

[springlullaby]

Oh no, no meta talk again. :c

But anyway, happy to play with y'all!!

[springlullaby]

What's bnest?

VOTE: Iraon

Why are you voting DGB?

[springlullaby]

Hello, I'm sorry, w-e etc. Reading now

[springlullaby]

#14 Ira, V DGB for reasons
#16 Spiffeh thinks zMuffin is scum for #15, I don’t see it
#17 zMuffin keeping the votecount…could be looking busy, or tryhard town. NAI
#18 Spiffeh wants to lynch hiplop, half joking? Keep eyes on random susp
#19 LLD, V Muffin, for the votecount, ok vote, but neh, I kept track of stuff as town in War in Heaven as town
>#23 Muffin, LLD, ok early exchange. Why ironically thought?
>#32 Kanye, reads like a second DGB
#33 DGB, is that LOL mocking or what?
#35 Spyrex, don’t like setup speculation that much and the item being discussed is fairly neutral alignment wise, but still making it this early is bold and townish.
#43 Kanye, ok exchange townish sounding
#48 Camn, wordy entry. Kinda agree with the DGB thing, either she is amazing later days in scumhunting or scum. Beside I like DGB. V Iraon, have missed this vote last time. So the reason here is because Iraon is voting for DGB? Since Iraon’s was a very early vote with no real reason, Camn’s vote looks weak here.
#49 KMD, eh, what’s the similar reaction here? That camn said they would vote you when you asked? How can you judge from that? Potential buddying, scummish, Camn/KMD not scum together.
#51 DGB So comment about Kanye was sincere. I don’t get the tone, but agree on Kanye reading townish.
#52 DGB, dunno about those too I vaguely remember them in lady’s night having a weird connection and calling each other town very early for no reason whatsoever, but I don’t see camn’s post as positive town.
>#54 meh, vaguely tonally townish.
#55, 56, Spiffeh noise post + votes Spyrex for no reason? Scummish.
#57, Spyrex…errh what?
>#58,59 Ira/DGB, what typo?
#60 Ira, so there was a reason to vote DGB. Eh I read DGB’s thing about panzer as a joke. Scummy.
#63 Ira, vote change to KMD because what? Though I agree with the KMD read.
#64 Hiplop, noise. Scummish at moment being made.
#65, Ira, I dunno can’t tell if is over self-conscious newbtown or over self-conscious scum.
#66, Hiplop, vote Ira for what?
#68, so does that mean that you don’t read camn as town? Meh, words to say nothing, scummish.
#70, Spyrex, I assumed comment is about Ira, agreed. Weird comment about faking things? Faking what? Townish though.
#71 KMD, good question.
#72 Ira, meh. The ‘I’m town-aligned’ is over the top.
#73 Spyrex, yeah town.
#75 Ira, eh, don’t really like the tone here, last question to KMD is ok-ish though. Now I’m remembering the subsequent unvote vote DGB and am not likeing the KMD/Ira interaction here.
>#76 Ira got’s a point there vs Spyrex.
#81 Camn, says Ira is squirming feels overthetop, personally can’t tell. Do not like the OMG it was a random vote bit. Scummish.
#81 Ira, actually a good answer to camn.
#86 Kanye, V DGB, reason?
#93, Ira, still do not like the DGB vote, what makes one change one’s mind there beside Kanye saying ‘yeah wagon’. KMD hasn’t responded to your questioning either.
#94, Kanye, why should I vote DGB? Kanye, what are your thoughts on Iraon?
#95, Ira, that’s a crappy reason to vote DGB though. Where has your KMD questioning gone to?
#96, Dramonic, V Ira, no reason but ok vote. Same LLD #98. LLD’s townier than Dram’s.
#99, ZMuffin, noise post. Scummy. Reads so far ?
>#104 Ira, open mind what ? Camn looks townish here, very brazen.
#110 Ira, tonally townish because Dram’s 109 does feel condescending.
#111, Camn, like this post. Townish.
#114, 115, ZMuffin, I don’t read Ira as inane but his voting history is bad. So the point here is Ira can’t be read? Disagreed, scummy if Ira flips town, and also disagreed about camn.
>#124 Spiffeh sounds townish although what’s the history about policy lynching hiplop here?
#127 zMuffin, meta read vote on hiplop? Meh can’t judge.
#131, farside, don’t understand hiplop or muffin read, Ok-ish vote on KMD. Though I don’t think KMD read ‘fake’ (fake what?) I think most susp about KMD is the slight buddying to Camn and subsequent backtracking at Ira’s questioning. Why make a remark camn sounds townish, then take it back? Farside null.
#145, hiplop, who is voting hiplop again? ok I remember how hard it is to keep track of everything in larger than mini game now. Noise posts. Voted Ira, so implies that he can tell when Ira is scum or town?
#149, Dram, good question to hiplop.
#161, KMD, sitting the fence much? Like why so many words to say basically nothing? What’s over the top obvscum? Scummy.
#165 DGB, Noise. At this juncture in game? Scummy.
#169 DGB, on one hand I agree with lurker pressure vote (yeah hypocrisy) on the other, no read whatsoever about rest of game. Meh.
#170 DGB, ok question to hiplop.
>#172 Spiffeh, ok-ish posts though out of the discussion around Iraon, KMD looks the worst wishy washy but so many words to do it.
#173 hiplop, vote spiffeh for what? Ergh scummy. Wasn’t Iraon scum because meta a second ago?
#177, farside, ok post though I don’t get the change on Spyrex. There has been very little content from him so why?
#178, 179, Spyrex, I’m meh on people talking about ‘low hanging fruits’ but ok townreads and harder for scum to fake townread because want to keep options open. Why is muffin ‘town as ball’ though. Don’t see it. Still Spyrex/muffin not scum together.
#182 Farside, good post. Town.
#188, Camn, meep for the sheep. Though town enough early, Camn/DGB likely not scum together. Although perhaps they’d be that ballsy. But nah, paranoia. Camn read as town, DGB townish.
>#191 Ira, Ok vote on Dram I guess though want to see Dram’s answer, still don’t like the KMD interaction. Nullish.
>#192 whole exchange between hiplop and camn unreadable. Can’t read hiplop at all. More spazzy than Iraon (which I don’t get why people thinks he is inane, I think his voting history is bad except last vote on Dram.)
#201, Dram, seems to imply Ira’s reason to vote is bad.

Bah I’m lazy, but Iraon, link to meta please.

#203 Fate, Considering that I still think you’re scum in that other game, that’s not a reminiscence in your favour.
#205 Fate, lol game with known playerlists, where policy lynches are being discussed without anyone bating an eyelid. I find it slightly annoying because I can’t read how genuine is the intention behind it but me is never digging into hardcore meta stuff again. ACTUAL READS FROM YOU PLEASE.
#209, Ira, yeah sounds town to me. Have to examine the case,

Ira please link.

>#218 Fluff, Kanye good comment about farside’s question to Spyrex. Still townish.
#219, Muffin, why 2 scums? Not 1 or 3 or whatever? Why is everyone thinking ZmUffin town again? This just makes no sense to me. Scummy.

Why are you asking DGB and not Camn?

#224, Muffin, So who are you voting again? How can anyone write a letter about hiplop and spiffeh’s interaction? I don’t read hiplop’s vote on spiffeh as ‘for show’. It’s more like either wtf or omgus. Both are nullish. Meh on that vote scummy.
#227 Fate, Camn, ok votes on KMD.
#223, Spiffeh, disagreed on DGB but I dunno how likely would scum try to push a case on DGB because she is a hard target by popularity alone. The hiplop thing I don’t really understand, the whole thing is unreadable. Why scumlean on me though? I haven’t posted anything.
>#247, hiplop. erg. I don’t think scum would defend their vote like that. Townish.
#248. Sus of two of my good town read on top of me. Right meh. Not convincing Ira vote because basically it’s policy lynch, and we should be moving past that.
#249, kany consistently town.
#255, DGB I read this post as townish. It also makes me lol.
>#275, Dram. So Dram is lynching “scum that might not be mafia”? I dunno, I think that’s pretty town. The problem is I think #284 is very town from Ira, so I don’t think Ira is an unreadable slot.

Dram, beside Ira, who you think are scum?

#287 Muffin, do not like this post at all. It’s just feel like threat. I totally get what Ira is feeling.
#291 Camn, WTF. How is Iraon, saying the stuff he is saying when he has been targeted by a wagon newbscum? I feel Ira making controversial argument to be towny.
>#304 LLD. WTF vote on Kanye. Nothing about the rest of the discussion at all. Scummy. Also I’m tired of post by post.
>Muffin 305/306. Errrgh. Really dislike those posts a lot. Basically Dram is too scummy to be scum. Which is top scumtell for me. Don’t like the tone either, using angry language to defend a stupid explanation. And betting money on what dram would do in the next game? WTF? SCUM. Also the condescension is very bad in my books.
#308 Kanye, I don’t think Spyrex has posted anything bad. What do you think he has posted as bad? My good reads are going to shit. Why do you think Muffin is town? Iraon has a point about Muffin and Muffin’s reation doesn’t look good.
#323 LLD. Antitown. The ‘I don’t care’ attitude comes off as over the top. Subsequent: everything I get from the tone is offensive. 1) I think Iraon doesn’t sound stupid at all and has a point about Muffin. 2)Why is Kanye scum again? SCUMMY.
#350 DGB, town. Farside can be town too for response to LLD. Camn, is downgraded.
#356 357 Spyrex. What are these post?
In a bunch. DGB deliberately wagonning makes me lol and is town to me. Not understanding the Spyrex’s vote. Kanye 100% town for #407.




SOLID TOWN: Kanye, Farside, Iraon
>>>>> SCUMZ: MUFFIN, LLD, KMD
Can be scumz: spiffeh, dram
Varying degree of null for everyone else.

I’m also curious about the vote thing, but feels very scummy about LLD. Will wait.
VOTE: Muffin

I'm also ok to lynch wishy washy words to say nothing KMD scum.

[springlullaby]

Ok, the flavor makes zero sense to me.
But nothing happened?

Yeah I'm ok to lynch LLD too.

[springlullaby]

Also, forgot, DGB is town.

[springlullaby]

Mod votecount please.

I'm ok to vote hiplop.

LLD, are you an executioner then if you are not a vig?

I'm meh on that play. On one hand I think executioner is pretty scumsided, esp given vote mayhem theme. On the other, what's the point of doing that as scum D1? But then wifom ect.

Meh, still leaning scum on LLD.

LLD, what did you read as scum on Kanye exactly?

Note, everyone should be wary of voting given LLD typ roles.

[springlullaby]

Assuming the guilty is real I think springlullaby is a likely scumbuddy of hiplop

I missed this last time but I'm pointing out here that the above is most likely an attempt to string me up because someone's buddy got busted.

Also, yeah Hiplop's claim sucks.

----


To answer Muffin's post addressed at me, you're answer is ok-ish I guess but 'too scummy to be scum' is really bad in my books, especially given the fact Iraon's was pointing out what looked like a straight lie from dramonic. I don't think I've ever seen town dismiss a straight lie as "too scummy to be scum". However it's more likely that scum may do that since they are aware of alignment and simply parse up the missing info (why would town lie?) with that knowledge, hence scumslip.

(BTW, @dram needs to post better reads than 'Iraon policy lynch'.)

To be honest I haven't reviewed your hiplop interaction specifically and am feeling lazy right now, so yeah I'll need a closer reread, but I'm pointing out here that you wanting brownie point for your hiplop vote (that wasn't that stellar as far as I can recall) is iffy.

BTW, btw, the DGB claim cop to bus hiplop discussion seems pretty off the walls to me. I could see it happening if hiplop was under hard pressure, but even then it would be assuming that scum-DGB took the risk to bet on there not being a real cop.

----

Other than that I think Spyrex looks pretty town, though I missed the ??? was an additional vote the first time around.
-> Quick iso says that KMD voted spiffeh but that vote never appeared in the real votecount. (Here I had an fleeting moment of paranaoia about Spyrex' power being screwing up the votecount, but nah, that would be bastard game and just make me mad).

So, KMD needs to post before the day ends and clarify that point.

Also, LLD is continuing to be unhelpful and antitown. I don't want to keep her around if she keeps jerking around.

[springlullaby]

psyduck alpaca sucks

But you know what, I just noticed that psyduck also happens to be your avatar if I'm not mistaken. This makes me see the whole point about DGB bus because, OMG, like really?

[springlullaby]

Nah, DGB's claim definitively looks better. So yeah, hiplop prolly just caught scum.

[springlullaby]

Erg, I left for weekend when the thread was locked and the flip hadn't been posted yet and thought for sure hiplop would flip scum.

Anyway. this whole DGB thing is wtf. On one hand I agree that she hasn't posted any real good content. I remember playing as scum against DGB town and she was a right pain in the ass.
On the other I can't wrap my head around why she'd claim guilty on hiplop out of nowhere as scum. And hiplop flipped vanilla townie too.

And then I don't like the zmuffin's push on her, his logic outguessing the NK smells like poop: why would scum kill/block DGB if she is insane or paranoid?
And then, there is the fact that zmuffin's vote intervenes just after a the LLD votes. I definitively don't want an execute now.

@DGB, why did you investigate Zmuffin? I've been pretty alone on that tree and you've showed no sign of agreeing, disagreeing.

Actually, now I'm thinking of it, there is something not very logical here. What did you try to achieve by investigating Zmuffin?

Other than that I need to reread.

[springlullaby]

@Spyrex, why didn't you ask for a votecount D2?

[springlullaby]

I've been thinking of something.

kanyeknowsbest, Missingnopaca, Town Non-Consecutive Governor, was executed D1.

@Mod, would a Town Non-Consecutive Gorvernor have been able to self target/pardon his own lynch?
And if you can answer, conversely, would a hypothetical Executioner role's execution count as a regular lynch that is subject to a governor's pardon?

Also, Spyrex, please answer to my question.

[springlullaby]

But a question for a question spring: does a non-standard cop make any sense balance wise this game.

I've been thinking about that and was gonna wait till mod answer but I guess I might as well just go ahead.

You see, you said that you though LLD's role, balance wise, was too scumsided if she was scum, this struck me as strange because if you put her as town, flipped governor+what I assume is an executioner (she said she wasn't a vig and I don't see anything else that fits the bill with her prompt being execute etc.)+claimed double voter+the dramonic having one less vote thing + the ???? (whatever that is), is way too townsided too me. Esp. since you consider we've been getting what looks like straight vanilla NK's.

So yeah, I think it's safe to assume that some of the roles in there are scumroles. Plus, assuming Spyrex-town, I don't see what point there would be to his role if else.

Now with that in mind, out of the gate and if I'm not thinking about wtf plays etc (actually, even if I think of it because I'm coming to the conclusion that wifom gambit is a possible here, just from the fact it's been running me up and down, and I think both LLD and DGB are capable of it), LLD's role (it goes through the governor+LLD has been just plain bad) and the ??? (it's confusing) that isn't fate's double vote (assuming he isn't lying) looks the most likely to be scumrole to me, and DGB's role doesn't seem to fit.

-->But then I thought of this, if LLD is an executioner, then she is as good as confirmed town, because with 6 to lynch, and assuming 3-4 scum, then we'd already have lost if she's scum.
-----> Unless we've got another big saving role (with a governor already dead I'm thinking neh), or LLD is X-shot (then why spend a shot D1 as scum instead of saving up to endgame?)
-----> And unless she isn't an executioner.

>> 1) After mod answers my question, I thought of a way to test LLD's alignment: with zero votes on her (everybody should unvote just to be safe), she has to execute herself in thread. (Actually, I wanted to ask for a claim from her after the mod answered my first questions, than ask if she could target herself, so yeah

LLD, full claim please

). That way she can be conf'd town or dead scum.


>>2) If LLD is town, then I'd actually consider an insane/parano cop a possible red herring thingy just to balance up because,

a) I don't read Fate as scum. He's not buddying all over the place and the way he's been careful with his vote D2 is more in line with town double-voter than scum (he could have been afraid of Spyrex catching him but then why come out like he did today?) (BTW, I think there is some meaningful and more tight math that can be done with how like gov+execute+dvter can coexist in the same alignment but my head hurt enough as it is so if someone please.)
b) Even assuming the dramonic thingy and the ??? thingy being both from scum, I still think just gov+execute+dvt is too townsided.
Plus, that's tangential, but given that hiplop flipped psyduck when his avatar was psyduck, I'm thinking it could be in line with a style of humor that I could appreciate.


-> The caveats to 2) are: setup wise I may be partial to a) I guess I'm basing this a bit too much on Fate!town, but I like him as town more than a lot of everyone else, b)off sanity stuff since I modded a whole game around 4 cops of different sanity and quacks, c) everyone complained it was too scumsided after the scum win and the other game I did (that I abandonned to my eternal shame) was like that too, so I might have a tendency to errr on scumside balance-wise.

So yeah, someone with more experience with Katsuki style of game should give there input there.

______________

With all that said and done since I already started typing it out, I agree DGB's last post about Iraon is just wtf. Why "LOL" if what Iraon's saying is true? The "lark" thing already was really disappointing, but that just sounds like troll zone.
So yeah, I might just be wanting DGB to be town just because I like her and I don't think it's a bad lynch but I want my LLD thing first.

TL,DR

LLD needs to claim. And I think we should test her the way I said unless someone see something I don't. Then proceed to DGB lynch.

Now I'm going to bed.

[springlullaby]

Why would you spent your one shot on D1, as either town or scum, is beyond me but wtw.
It kinda throws out the town confirmation out of the window but yeah, please do the execute anyway. Just to be sure you're not some scum insta bringer of death lying from the beginning.

Since no one voted you since Spyrex's votecount (and since 3 hidden votes scumpower would just be retarded) I think you can go ahead.

In any case the X-shot thing makes me more at ease with the balance. So DGB is bad bad scum. Thought I appreciate the play, it's fun!

[springlullaby]

Clarification, please do the execute in your next post with no votes on you just to make sure.

[springlullaby]

@Mod, would a hypothetical executioner be able to target themselves?

Spring what was the point of having LLD execute with no votes when shes specifically needed votes on Kanye to activate her role

Eh. Because she can't be an executioner and scum at the same time like I explained. Assuming 3-4 scum, if she can execute at half the require number for lynch, then she can execute today till endgame we need 6 votes to lynch (which make 3 for her to execute).

Now since she claimed oneshot, she can't be confirmed as town (I would have suggested her to execute DGB today after she showed she wasn't lying about her role) and of course she may be 1shot scum executioner , but why would she spend it like that on d-1?
You can say it's lolgambit, but out of DGB/LLD I think, DGB lolgambit is more likely just from a personality standpoint.
Of course it's not even mutually exclusive, but erg master plan two lolgambit.

Then she could be lying about being 1-shot also but I'm thinking 1-shot looks balanced in this setup. I guess we can verify that by making her execute herself with 3 votes on her.

I thought dram asking the question was scummy but you're asking too so am I missing something here?

In any case we have to wait for mod answer.

---
On Spyrex, the only thing that bother me is that his role is actually quite neutral so it's not def supertown power + plus the fact that he isn't more actively looking for scum in the claimed power, because I think if I had his role I'd just assume I'm there to do that.

Also, if DGB isn't scum his post earlier looks like testing the water if he can safely go that route.

I don't have the time to go on right now but for the other I think dram looks pretty scummy he has refused to take a stance on DGB at all and Muffin is top suspect for bussing. Iraon is towny to me. I really can't tell Spiffeh/KMD appart but I guess KMD didn't jump on DGB while his ass has been more or less on the line is townisher.

[springlullaby]

Phone post to clarify: if LLD isn't 1-shot, she could be X-shot, with X being not enough to carry the scumteam to endgame through execute. So yeah it's better to test it out after mod reply, because if she isn't one shot then LAL. Lying executioner priority over troll cop I think.

[springlullaby]

^^ Why no comment, it's not as if you hadn't answered about an hypothetical executioner already.

Anyway @Spyrex, I didn't like how you seemed to think gov/lld/dv was balanced and it seems to me you kinda wasted you power as town. It'd be more logical to me to use it as a surprise factor since you knew you had 2 shot from the beginning and not like an once per day utility power like I thought: like wait till something weird happen in the end day votecount, have people claim some stuff, then use it to maybe catch someone in a lie maybe. For example if Fate is scum, he could have tried to bullshit about his PR if he thought he was safe to do so -> you could have caught it with your 1-shot, then verify it for sure with the second shot. But as it happen you kinda revealed that your power existed right off the bat so anyone scum would be wary to try to make bullshit fly.

The Fate example is kinda moot because I think his play d2 is more towny than not given his claimed power (he could have voted hiplop mislynch right off the bat and still got away with it I think) but you get the point.

I dunno maybe it's also tied in to the fact that I also didn't like how you put as the only two people seemingly considering DGB scum as town, then still complained about town being retarded (if you think people considering DGB scum to be town then why town is retarded?). If DGB is town, it just looks like soft-pushing for a mislynch to me, encourage susp while still calling people who aren't going your way retarded but town.

That said, with LLD being claimed oneshot and DGB play lately, I'm thinking you're probably still town at this point.

Btw, I'm considering 4 scum just on account of the gov role but yeah, I think 3 is probably more right if only for the fact that I'd think 10-4 makes the random lynch chance of finding scum too high.

----
Anyway, anyway

Vote LLD

Please 2 more town humor me and vote LLD and since:

kanyeknowsbest (4)

- Lady Lambdadelta, DrippingGoofball, dramonic, kanyeknowsbest

we know the above are effective, I'd prefer 2 of LLD, DGB, Dram to vote for LLD, then LLD execute herself.

It doesn't cost anything to just make sure since DGB isn't going anywhere and since LLD, you said you were oneshot, you shouldn't have an objection with it.

[springlullaby]

^^What are you saying here? That executioner can't exist because it can't go near lylo?
She is a confirmed executioner via Kanye, so it's just plain fact that an executioner could go to lylo regardless of alignment.

What you are saying makes no sense whatsoever but it's ok because if DGB flips scum, you're totally scum with her trying to setup a trollol cop claim then counting on coasting till endgame by bussing her to death the next day.

What are your reads beside DGB scum again?

[springlullaby]

Anyway, since you think it's a pointless exercise it doesn't cost you anything to do it. So why don't you vote LLD and move my test along. If it doesn't do anything then fine, my worries are put to rest and DGB is still there to lynch.
But maybe you're afraid of losing your 'I'm so town I'm voting the wtf cop claim' points.

[springlullaby]

1) Muffin is proving at least that he isn't reading.

2) LLD why aren't you executing yourself? With Fate's vote on you it was 4, and you didn't do it. Still it's me, DGB, spiffeh voting you now if I'm not mistaken so that's 3.

Just do it and prove you aren't lying so we can move along.

Wtf with the spiffeh wagon out of nowhere?

@Spyrex, Fate and Iraon what do you think about what I said and why isn't LLD executing herself?

[springlullaby]

Yeah but it doesn't cost her anything to just do the execute on herself and prove she isn't lying about 1-shot.

[springlullaby]

^^It didn't happen with 3 vote on her.
Am I the only person reading or what OMG.

[springlullaby]

iraon, kmd, dram, spiffeh

Given you're voting DGD and calling her scum, and given the spiffeh wagon that's sprung out of nowhere, how can spiffeh and dram/kmd all exist in the same scumpool than DGB?
What the assumption here? That scum is trying to set up a mislynch by...voting another scum?
Right.

I couldn't find a Katsuki precedent of executioner, but since in the clarification about Kanye, Katsuki specified that execution is different from the lynch, and since the flavor of Kanye's flip indicates that he likely attempted to pardon himself, I'll assume that the mechanic that led to his death was not an inability to target himself but execution not counting . By association I think it's safe to assume that LLD can also target herself, so yeah she can live.

Btw all the caplocks crazy talk is extremely annoying. Talk like normal people for god sakes.

VOTE: DGB

DGB/MUFFINZ/one of dram or KMD scumz.

[springlullaby]

...What?
Are you saying that there are multliple scumteams?

[springlullaby]

have you never had (or seen someone have) two people as scum reads that you (or they) don't think make sense as scum together?

So you're saying that some player aren't "all scum together" and at the same time saying that DGB/spiffeh/kmd/dramonic are in the same scumpool.

Tell me, who isn't "scum together" with whom? You say you mention who doesn't make sense as scum together but there is actually absolute no evidence in thread.

That looks like a scumslip right there.

If Muffin was town trying to put together a plausible scumteam, he'd look at who is most likely scum with DGB (who he is voting and has called scum all day). That's the only thing that makes sense.
But instead he is talking about scum that aren't "all scum together": everyone in his read should be "scum together" with DGB.

Then his case on Iraon is just total hypocritical garbage since he was happy floating "DGB is bussing hiplop" theory with farside.

Anyway, DGB, I still hope you're town so I'm willing to hear your effort because if you're scum as it looks like, then your cool play was totally ruined by the terrible logic coming from the piece of unrefined baked good (at least donuts have holes in them) made from heavily processed carbohydrate that's your buddy, and I'd feel sorry for you.

Spoiler:

[springlullaby]

Yeah I'm the one not reading when zMuffin seemingly wise up to the fact that non x-shot executioner can't be scum after I explained it - twice - in thread.

Tell me, who isn't "scum together" with whom?

Since you gave up your chance to amend your reads when I pressed (also twice) but instead choose to somehow imply that I'm not paying attention, I'll just assume your last posted reads are current.

So, as per #829 zMuffin is considering as scum in conjunction with DGB the following: iraon, kmd, dram, spiffeh

1) As per zMuffin's own votecount in #835, updated, the current votes state looks like this:

Spiffeh

(3): Lady Lambdadelta,

dramonic, KMD

DrippingGoofball

(4): SpyreX, zMuffinMan, Fate, Me
Lady Lambdadelta (2):

DrippingGoofball, Spiffeh

dramonic

(1):

iraonavp

^^ The red representing what his supposed mindmap of who is scum looks like

-> With spiffeh being the top competing wagon to what one can only assume is his top scumread, he is basically saying that:
a) 2 out of 4 of his scumreads other than his top scumread are on the competing wagon...which also happen to be another scumread of his
b) out of his "DGB/Iraon/Spiffeh" scumteam, 2 are voting for a wagon that was explicitly stated wasn't for lynch, and 1 is voting for... yet another potential scumread of his

Even if you take out iraon and Dram, which are the only people he expressly mentioned as mutually exclusive, his scumreads look like this:

Spiffeh

(3): Lady Lambdadelta, dramonic,

KMD

DrippingGoofball

(4): SpyreX, zMuffinMan, Fate, Me
Lady Lambdadelta (2):

DrippingGoofball, Spiffeh

dramonic (1):

iraonavp

or

Spiffeh

(3): Lady Lambdadelta,

dramonic, KMD

DrippingGoofball

(4): SpyreX, zMuffinMan, Fate, Me
Lady Lambdadelta (2):

DrippingGoofball, Spiffeh

dramonic

(1): iraonavp

-> In both scenarios his fore-running theory seems to be that DGB's potential buddies...are bussing each other on the competing Spiffeh wagon that came out of nowhere and reached what I believe is actually L1 in 3 pages before Fate's unvote.

That just doesn't make sense as any kind of genuine read to me.

Now, I could have given some slack here since there were some changes in voting since his last reads post, but upon questioning, he stuck to his guns and chose to insinuate that I'm not paying attention to the game instead. This shows to me that he is at least not paying attention to who is voting whom, which I could understand in some players because not everyone does vote analysis, but since he is actually bringing votecounts to the thread (for the assumed purpose of keeping track of stuff AND analysing it - because why else?) it's just straight scummy.

2) Upon reread, I'm amending what I said about him being hypocritical in his case about Iraon. I originally misread his "i don't think it's impossible for town to think something might be amiss" in #829 as "I don't think it's possible for town...". But still, just go read that post and tell me it not a pile of hot air.

Muffinz is scum regardless of DGB alignment.
From how he is pushing Iraon/DGB/spiff and setting up what looks like ira vs dram, and just kinda throwing in KMD in there with not much reason but not much insistence either. I think KMD prolly his buddy.

[springlullaby]

Also ^^ DGB count is mistaken. With Fate's double it's 5, which is L1.

If DGB is not scum, Spyrex is starting to look scummy to me with his seemingly bottomless blindspot. With DGB's wtf claim you gotta assume there is some bussing going on, no? Because 1v1 trade is just dumb.

[springlullaby]

Dismissal from zMuffin, that's a scumtactic I've never seen before. Especially since I address the dgb/iraon/spiffeh nonsense in the part you conveniently didn't read.
So, tell me, I'm not actually reading what you wrote, but you're fine with it?

And let's us be clear here:

ZMuffin's compelling case on Iraon is that Iraon switched vote between hiplop and Dramonic D2. The exact terms used in #829 is that Iraon was "sheeping" farside with his Dramonic vote, whilst Iraon has been calling Dramonic scum D1, a fact that ZMuffin cannot possibly ignore since he commented on it at lenght D1 with his "dram=too scummy to be scum" explanation of why he thought Ira's case wasn't good.

As for Spiffeh, his case is... well, a lot of nothing.

I've also been rereading KMD. Just iso it. His #823 is kind of an apotheosis. His only note for D2 is that he didn't like spiff saying "assuming DGB's claim is real", and next he votes spiffeh. --> KMD how do you feel about your reason to not like spiffeh's reaction to DGB's claim considering that farside flipped town?

Anyway, DGB/MUFFIN/KMD

I'm sorry DGB, I don't know how as an actual insane cop, you'd reach the conclusion that no scum is voting for the easy mislynch, and even if I'm flattered, you have never actually called me cool in any other game :c

[springlullaby]

I've been so busy I absolutely and totally forgot this game. Sorry :c Catching up.

[springlullaby]

Also Spring guess I wasn't scum in that other game, thoughts

Yeah, I saw that and was thinking about it.
You were still dark though so I dunno. Were you or weren't you trying to hint that you light aligned D1? Because I totally read you that way and thought you simultaneously scummy and wanted to keep you for later for it.

Right now I'm thinking you're problably still town just from the look of the spiffeh wagon.

@Iraon, why do you think dramonic isn't scum from dgb's play?

Also LLD, any reads?

VOTE: Muffinz

Refer to my last concerning him. I'll address his another time when I'm not wiped out. Also, why do you want a massclaim muffin?

Right now I'm still good on Muffinz or KMD today.

[springlullaby]

Yay, I was not prodded again.

Iraon, I'm confused here. If you refuse to vote LLD because DGB was scum aligned then why did you vote her start of the day. Also, I'm pretty sure I asked you a question in my last post.

LLD scum is like the Kanye thing would have been a collaborative effort. I think it's way risky though. Starting the Spiffeh wagon in the middle of the DGB wagon is kinda scummy but then she had a RL excuse all ready to not show up in thread to hammer DGB. She could have gotten away with it I think.

I dunno, I'm meh on that.

I'm Muffinz/KMD --> Dram --> LLD

I dunno why Muffinz asking for massclaim is not ringing alarm bells all around and I really don't have the energy to spare right now.

Anyway.

VOTE: KMD

[springlullaby]

Also congrats KMD!

(Here have my vote I guess :p)

[springlullaby]

@Iraon, do you actually have any scumread? Beside dramonic that is. I had a very strong town read on you early on, but I'm feeling you're getting really sloppy and I just noticed something. Your scumlist please.

For LLD, I just don't see why if the plan was "let's gambit the shit out of them" LLD would have hammered when she could have let it slide into no-lynch. I get that it's all wifomy but I think Muffinz's vote is defo scummiest on the lynch (first vote, zero other scumread just go back and read it). Have someone bus to look good, when the town is wtf-ing make more sense to me. Starting the spiffeh counterwagon is scummy is scummy, but then again, she could have let none of them get flipped.
I dunno, a vig would have been the most overpowered thing in this game.

Also, I've just Muffinz is voting KMD. It doesn't really change my thinking that they can be scum together but right now I'm toying with Muffinz/Iraon.
Though I admit I'm getting a little disengaged from this game.

A question thought, Fate, why don't you want to vote for KMD?

I'm feeling like Spyrex' kill was a pretty good NK since town is pretty scatterbrained right now and is lacking focus.
@LLD, do you actually have a scumlist?

[springlullaby]

Also, note that Muffinz' justification for him wanting massclaim is "I like massclaim early" which is like the dumbest reason ever.

From Spyrex claim that was verified, and LLD's claim that was pretty much verified power-wise though not alignment wise, I'm thinking it's most likely the case that the game is well enough balanced that it'd be impossible to PoE from roles. And asking for massclaim is more likely just scum wanting a map for NK's.

Anyway, KMD claim please. From DGB's flip I'm kinda not buying the awesome night power that you seem to be hinting at. And hinting at any kind of cop role given your reaction to the DGB's claim is just eww to me.

[springlullaby]

Right, not using roleblock as town is dumb. Even targetting at random you could have hit a kill and served as an effective cop.

I'm really meh on that play but the wagon I'm on really suck too.

VOTE: LLD

I'd rather give it a chance and have KMD target someone on the off chance he is town and just terrible.

Iraon, your refusal to be of any use to town with your parked vote on dead wagons since D1 is starting to look really scummy.

Any remaining town player should just hammer LLD, LLD should just problably self hammer too.

[springlullaby]

^If she is town.

And also, from the claimed PR, none of them are night PR beside Iraon if I'm not mistaken. Don't have the time to look at it closely now right now but I'm thinking it's possible KMD is more town for it? Because why scum would have a useless power. Unless he's lying. Dunno.

[springlullaby]

Err wait. I just read past KMD's claim post and Muffinz actually makes a good point.

Spyrex, LDD, and Fate all claimed day power and it really makes no sense to not have used the roleblock ability on them if KMD was really town. It could have confirmed they are not lying about their powers/carrying kills.

VOTE: KMD

Fate, I think KMD is more likely to be scum than LLD here.

[springlullaby]

^^ Done.

[springlullaby]

Yeah you guys have some weird things going on between you.

[springlullaby]

Spyrex has claimed a day power by D2 as well as LLD. Why didn't you target them if your concern was to not get into town power's way?

And the later is just what?

Good lynch.

[springlullaby]

Spiffeh, since you are here, what are your thoughts on KMD?

[springlullaby]

Erg, Iraon, why are you voting Muffinz now? I'm pretty sure I asked your thoughts on Muffin to no avail at some point.

I'm thinking I'm either really wrong about ZmUffin, or really wrong about Fate.

Muffin, why Fate scum makes this game fucked? If there 2 scums left, it's lylo right now. Mislynch today = 4 alive, 2 scum tomorrow. So yeah, what does it change that Fate is scum or not?

[springlullaby]

.... Errr wait. Fate, actually if you're town shouldn't it be lylo and not mylo for you?

[springlullaby]

its MyLO iraona so lets stop now

Is that a scumslip right here?

... ... ...???

[springlullaby]

:,,,,,,,,(

[springlullaby]

^^Please Fate answer.

I think we need massclaim now. I'll reread this but dramonic dying is like wtf.

[springlullaby]

Muffin, why Fate scum makes this game fucked? If there 2 scums left, it's lylo right now. Mislynch today = 4 alive, 2 scum tomorrow. So yeah, what does it change that Fate is scum or not?

... 2:2 is a scum win (at least in a normal game, it's possible that cupcake has some non-standard scum win-con but "50% of the players alive" is pretty standard and i'm just going to assume that's the case here as well)

That's just like answering totally beside the point.

You said the game is fucked if Fate is scum. What does it actually change in our situation if Fate is scum

as opposed to

any other players?

[springlullaby]

So what if he has two votes? What does it actually change?

I wondering if you're trying to make paraonoia fly here, and i'm totally inclined to think yes just because I like to be right, because the way I look at the numbers it changes nothing.
But then KMD no targetting policy was just plain terrible and there was some really broken logic there so.

So yeah, could you explain why you think Fate being scum make this game more fucked than it is now?

[springlullaby]

Ok, if I don't understand how the game of mafia works. Explain it step by step for me why Fate being scum make it worse for town right now.

[quote=muffin]but i think the game is pretty fucked if fate's scum and cupcake gave him a double-vote that persists in xylo situations so meh[/quote]

Why double-vote that persisting into xylo make the game more fucked?

[springlullaby]

let's break it down with simple maths

how many votes does it take to lynch someone with 5 alive? how many with 6 alive? how many votes does a scum team with a double voter have?

You do the math and tell me how it changes whether it's lylo or not.

From your train of thoughts here, I'm not sure what you are trying to say.
Are you trying to say that Fate can't be scum because he is a double voter?
Or that Fate is scum because he is a double voter?

What does it change that it's xylo or mylo or lylo or whatever?

Then, have you never heard of a scum double-voter that goes to endgame before?

What are you trying to say exactly?

[springlullaby]

Anyway, I'm reading this tomorrow. Bed good night. I just feel like Muffinz is scum with every fiber of me, just from the inane stuff he is saying but I have to reread this.

[springlullaby]

Spring what the hell are you talking about? It's Mylo for me because it's 4-2 I assume

My double vote changes nothing FMPOV except that I'm confirmed town for not voting no lynch with my buddy and then auto lynching tomorrow at 5 with said buddy


That's moot if my doublevote doesn't work, but I can't really prove it does without a risky move at this point

Disclaimer: I realized I got the possibility of lylo and mylo wrong while writing the below, letting it stand.

Mylo is myslinch and lose - you can't vote no lynch.

Lylo is Lynch(scum) or lose - you can still vote no lynch.

With 4:2 today, if we no lynch today it's 3:2 tomorrow.

If you are a town double-voter and there is a no lynch, that's (number of vote-vise, assuming no other shenanigans) 3+1:2 tomorrow. And town hasn't lost.
If you are scum double-voter that's 3:2+1 tomorrow, and scum win (I assume if no other weir).

So yeah, it should be lylo for you if you're town, not mylo.
How am I not making sense?

---------------------

But then Fate, shouldn't we no lynch then from your pov?
And what are you talking about you are confirmed town? You have to vote, and with 2 scum left, that's 3 votes total so you can't vote no-lynch today. The only thing that can be said is that there can't be more than 2 scum left if you are scum. Or am I missing something here?

Also, I've just realized why Iraon is saying dramonic stole his vote -> D3 and D4 votecount, Iraon voted dramonic but dramonic's votecount is zero --> the number between brackets.

With Iraon's voting today, I'm thinking it's pretty possible dramonic got killed because scum realized the steal came from dramonic and wanted the vote alive.

I need to look closer at spiffeh but the DGB counterwagon looked good to me.
I'm pretty much were I was at last concerning LLD, but I have to look closer whether I'm being kept alive to tunnel Muffinz, and that would most likely come for some Fate/LLD.
That's all I can do today, but I'll do some votecount analysis next.

Anyway, I'm pretty happy I'm here, I haven't been to end game in, literally, years.

[springlullaby]

Spiffeh, so you said multiple time that you would be reading me. Have you done it? What are your thoughts?
I wonder if you're not taking a real stance to not piss me off.

Could you explain why you think LLD is scum again?

[springlullaby]

Right, let's do this.

Spoiler:

Vote Count 1.01

dramonic

(4)

- Spiffeh,

hiplop, SpyreX, camn

kanyeknowsbest

(4)

- Lady Lambdadelta,

DrippingGoofball

,

dramonic, kanyeknowsbest

SpyreX

(4)

- Fate, iraonavp,

farside22

, ???

hiplop

(1)

- zMuffinMan

iraonavp (1)

- springlullaby

Not Voting (1) -

Kmd4390

Vote Count 1.02

dramonic

(4)

- Spiffeh,

hiplop, SpyreX, camn

kanyeknowsbest

(4)

- Lady Lambdadelta, DrippingGoofball,

dramonic, kanyeknowsbest

SpyreX

(4)

- Fate, iraonavp,

farside22

, ???

hiplop

(1)

- zMuffinMan

zMuffinMan (1)

- springlullaby

Not Voting (1) -

Kmd4390

A lynch has been achieved!

Vote Count 2.00

hiplop

(7)

-

DrippingGoofball

,

Kmd4390, dramonic, farside22

, iraonavp, Fate, ???

dramonic

(1)

-

hiplop

Not Voting - Spiffeh, springlullaby, zMuffinMan, Lady Lambdadelta, ???

With 12 alive, it will take 7 to lynch.

A lynch has been achieved.

Vote Count 3.01:

dramonic

(2)

- iraonavp,

Spiffeh

,

DrippingGoofball

DrippingGoofball

(2)

- Lady Lambdadelta, ???,

Not Voting (5) - Fate,

SpyreX

, springlullaby,

dramonic, Kmd4390

Vote Count 3.02:

DrippingGoofball

(6) -

SpyreX

, Fate,

springlullaby, dramonic

, Lady Lambdadelta, ???, ???

Lady Lambdadelta (2)

-

DrippingGoofball

, Spiffeh

Spiffeh (1)

-

Kmd4390

dramonic

(0)

- iraonavp

Not Voting - No one

With 10 alive, it will take 6 to lynch.

A lynch has been achieved!

Vote Count 4.00

Kmd4390

(5)

- zMuffinMan,

dramonic

, ???, ???

Lady Lambdadelta (2)

- Spiffeh, springlullaby

Spiffeh (1)

-

Kmd4390

dramonic

(0)

- iraonavp

Not Voting (1) - Lady Lambdadelta

With 8 alive, it will take 5 to lynch.

A lynch has been achieved!

Next, see if we can get something out of this.

Spoilered at request due to tags.

[springlullaby]

Mod, spoiler the above please, my tags got messed up.

Vote Count 1.01

dramonic

(4)

- Spiffeh,

hiplop, SpyreX, camn

kanyeknowsbest

(4)

- Lady Lambdadelta,

DrippingGoofball

,

dramonic, kanyeknowsbest

SpyreX

(4)

- Fate, iraonavp,

farside22

, ???

hiplop

(1)

- zMuffinMan

iraonavp (1)

- springlullaby

Not Voting (1) -

Kmd4390

Vote Count 1.02

dramonic

(4)

- Spiffeh,

hiplop, SpyreX, camn

kanyeknowsbest

(4)

- Lady Lambdadelta,

DrippingGoofball

,

dramonic, kanyeknowsbest

SpyreX

(4)

- Fate, iraonavp,

farside22

, ???

hiplop

(1)

- zMuffinMan

zMuffinMan (1)

- springlullaby

Not Voting (1) -

Kmd4390

A lynch has been achieved!

Vote Count 2.00

hiplop

(7)

-

DrippingGoofball

,

Kmd4390, dramonic, farside22

, iraonavp, Fate, ???

dramonic

(1)

-

hiplop

Not Voting - Spiffeh, springlullaby, zMuffinMan, Lady Lambdadelta, ???

With 12 alive, it will take 7 to lynch.

A lynch has been achieved.

Vote Count 3.01:

dramonic

(2)

- iraonavp,

Spiffeh

,

DrippingGoofball

DrippingGoofball

(2)

- Lady Lambdadelta, ???,

Not Voting (5) - Fate,

SpyreX

, springlullaby,

dramonic, Kmd4390

Vote Count 3.02:

DrippingGoofball

(6) -

SpyreX

, Fate, springlullaby,

dramonic

, Lady Lambdadelta, ???, ???

Lady Lambdadelta (2)

-

DrippingGoofball

, Spiffeh

Spiffeh (1)

-

Kmd4390

dramonic

(0)

- iraonavp

Not Voting - No one

With 10 alive, it will take 6 to lynch.

A lynch has been achieved!

Vote Count 4.00

Kmd4390

(5)

- zMuffinMan,

dramonic

, ???, ???

Lady Lambdadelta (2)

- Spiffeh, springlullaby

Spiffeh (1)

-

Kmd4390

dramonic

(0)

- iraonavp

Not Voting (1) - Lady Lambdadelta

With 8 alive, it will take 5 to lynch.

A lynch has been achieved!

[springlullaby]

Right off the bat, I forgot kanye actually voted himself --- because I assume he wasn't fearing a lynch - I think it makes DGB/LLD even less likely because scum couldn't have known his role, and I don't remember kanye being a popular suspect then. If the plan was gambit city, I'd see more something like all scum voting for him and just bait one vote but dramonic flipped town.

Second, closer look at the 2 ???'s.
The first set: Fate's wagons consistently have an extra ???, so safe to assume he's not lying and that's him.
Second set=missing person each day but vote seems to count. List: camn D1, Spyrex D2, Zmuffin D3, Fate D4.
--> the net effect of the second set seems to be messing up with vote order and keeping track votes slightly more tedious.
--> I dunno, if someone wanna claim it, I'm not writing it off as scum.

(Note: everyone alive now beside Fate is on no voting in VC2.00, which achieved the hiplop lynch.)

Err, something doesn't make sense here.

Iraon, your turn to claim and claim all your blocked votes.

Actually, I'm putting this off after massclaim.

[springlullaby]

Almost all of my posts today have explained why I think LLD is scum

I haven't ISO'd you yet

I can't figure out whether Spiffeh's genuine here because from what I can judge, all that seems vaguely valid about his LLD scum read is some meta stuff from 'pyp'.

I liked his #1043 though. But I don't know how you all seem to read Muffinz'd DGB push as town. His "fuck it" in #640 reads totally fake to me when I reread it. Like him being convince so early DGB is scum just isn't town.

I'd put spiffeh as scum behind Iraon/muffin right now but I wanna massclaim and make sense of all vote shenanigan first.

[springlullaby]

^^You didn't claim your flavor.

And why the hell did you block spyrex D3 after the DGB lynch?

And now you're asking muffin to vote spiffeh when you were voting muffin first thing in the day?

MOD: IF dramonic stole someone's vote during last night phase, does his stolen vote carry through today even though he died?

[springlullaby]

Alright I missed it. Why did you block spyrex after DGV's lynch though?

[springlullaby]

^^Really??

...And why did you block dramonic D2 and D4?

[springlullaby]

Caterpiepaca, vanilla townie.

Spiffeh next.

And LLD needs to claim flavor too. Fate you too.

[springlullaby]

AUTO GENERATED VOTECOUNT 1.04

dramonic (4):

Spiffeh, hiplop, SpyreX, camn

SpyreX (3):

Fate, iraonavp, farside22

iraonavp (2):

springlullaby, dramonic

kanyeknowsbest (2):

Lady Lambdadelta, DrippingGoofball

Spiffeh (1):

Kmd4390

hiplop (1):

zMuffinMan

Kmd4390 (1):

kanyeknowsbest

14 alive, 8 to lynch, (expired on 2016-08-14 13:00:00)

That's just before dramonic's vote on Kanye. Even if Muffin is scum I don't think he would have messed up the votecount.

So LLD scum would have thrown down the kanye thing as a counter to spyrex/iraon/dramonic. I dunno, anyway I think of it it just doesn't make sense to me. I still like the fact that LLD hammered DGB.

[springlullaby]

Errr, what? Fate are you really claiming Greyice? Like no joke please.

[springlullaby]

LLD what's your flavor claim.

[springlullaby]

Oh god 3 pages of screaming.

[springlullaby]

My flavor is GreyICE, hence my multiple crumbs about Katsuki fucking with me-because im not even an alpaca

Getting trolled all day e'rey day

GreyICE is apparently dead but I am infused with his spirit and have an extra POWAHFUL vote

Where did you crumb katsuki was fucking with you?

[springlullaby]

zMuffinMan ------------>crabbypaca, vt
Spiffeh----------------->parasectpac, vt
Lady Lambdadelta-----> ?, executioner
Fate--------------------> Greyice, doublevoter
iraonavp---------------->tentacruel, voteblocker
springlullaby------------> caterpiepaca, vt


kanyeknowsbest, a Missingnopaca, Town Non-Consecutive Governor, was executed D1.
camn, an Arbokpaca, Vanilla Townie, got drunk N1.
hiplop, a Psyduckapaca, Vanilla Townie, was lynched D2.
farside22, a Victreebelpaca, Vanilla Townie, got drunk N2.
DrippingGoofball, #TRUMPTRAINEQUINOX, Mafia Doctor, was lynched D3.
SpyreX, an Exeggcupaca, Town Two-Shot Vote Counter, got drunk N3.
Kmd4390, a Ninetalepaca, Town Roleblocker, was lynched D4.
dramonic, an Alakazampaca, Town Votestealer, got drunk N4.

[springlullaby]

LLD, your flavor claim please.

It seems obvious to me one of muffin or spiffeh claim is lying because the second set of ??? is not accounted for. Unless it's some random shit thrown in by the mod to mess people up?

Then there is the fact that we have a roleblocker and there is no point that I can't see to its role since only iraon and dramonic had Night abilities. Though maybe it was conceived as a toned-down doc.
Then there is the mafia doctor role when there was only one flavor for the NK.

Fate, Spiffeh, how are you both reading Iraon/LLD when it should be obvious one of zmuffin, spiffeh or me are lying since no one claimed the ???.

[springlullaby]

BTW I totally think the second set of ???'s is scum and it's between muffin and spiffeh.

[springlullaby]

Your reason is LLD is the same as in some game.
Fate is basically gambit city.

None of you deserve to be listened to.

[springlullaby]

Explain why only myself or Muffin can have that ability.

LLD has a confirmed role, Fate is pretty much confirmed too, and by the look of it Iraon is not lying about his role either because the is some shenanigan's on the DGB wagons and it must comes from Iraon (though have to put it all in order next).
So yeah what's your point.

I don't think you can be scum with Fate but the last page of screaming I'm coming down LLD's side.

[springlullaby]

zMuffinMan ------------>crabbypaca, vt
Spiffeh----------------->parasectpac, vt
Lady Lambdadelta-----> Articunopaca, executioner
Fate--------------------> Greyice, doublevoter
iraonavp---------------->tentacruel, voteblocker
springlullaby------------> caterpiepaca, vt

kanyeknowsbest-------> Missingnopaca, Town Non-Consecutive Governor, was executed D1.
camn---------------------> Arbokpaca, Vanilla Townie, got drunk N1.
hiplop--------------------> Psyduckapaca, Vanilla Townie, was lynched D2.
farside22----------------> Victreebelpaca, Vanilla Townie, got drunk N2.
SpyreX -----------------> Exeggcupaca, Town Two-Shot Vote Counter, got drunk N3.
Kmd4390 ---------------> ninetalepaca, Town Roleblocker, was lynched D4.
dramonic ---------------> Alakazampaca, Town Votestealer, got drunk N4.

DrippingGoofball-------> #TRUMPTRAINEQUINOX, Mafia Doctor, was lynched D3.

Like WTF Fate, your Greyice claim doesn't fit but it doesn't make sense that you'd be claiming it as scum either.

Also, I know nothing about pokemons but google says every Town PR so far is psychic or fire or really weird. Though I guess perhaps that's not significant but both Iraon and muffin are water/poison.

[springlullaby]

@springlullaby

There is no reason LLD or iraonavp can't have two roles

Or some factional ability that gives them an extra secret vote

If this dumb role shit that can have MULTIPLE FUCKING EXPLANATIONS is the smoking gun after all the evidence presented in favor of an LLD-iraonavp scum team then let me know and I will stop posting so you can drive the game into the ground

Ok, spiffeh. You can stop your undermining/guilt-tripping shit right there. 1) You were crying that DGB wasn't scum and calling for a dramonic lynch D3 so you can take it down a notch. 2) When I make my decision, it's going to be my decision, in my time.

Though it's true the ??? could be a factional ability but it's like the most pointless and simultaneously scummy one at the same time.

[springlullaby]

what?

Articuno is Ice/Flying SL

Wait right, flavor probably meaningless then.

[springlullaby]

Wait, there are six players...

Fate, you should unvote because something is clearly wrong here. LLD and I cannot be scum-aligned together because there is an unclaimed ??? source.

Why???

[springlullaby]

^^ I'm not liking Iraon's "my vote is probably stolen so it doesn't matter" shit right there. Especially since Katsuki already answered in thread.

Vote Count 2.00

hiplop (7)

- DrippingGoofball, Kmd4390, dramonic, farside22, iraonavp, Fate, ???

dramonic (1)

- hiplop

Not Voting - Spiffeh, springlullaby, zMuffinMan, Lady Lambdadelta,

???

With 12 alive, it will take 7 to lynch.

A lynch has been achieved.

It's not a stolen vote though. And it's not hidden. Like I said all it seems to do is erase the name of a player and replace with ???. The vote still count.

[springlullaby]

Meh right now I feel Iraon is most likely scum.

[springlullaby]

Vote Count 4.00

Kmd4390 (5)

- zMuffinMan, dramonic, ???, ???

Lady Lambdadelta (2)

- Spiffeh, springlullaby

Spiffeh (1)

- Kmd4390

dramonic (0)

- iraonavp

Not Voting (1) - Lady Lambdadelta

With 8 alive, it will take 5 to lynch.

A lynch has been achieved!

I think dramonic's stolen vote was hidden -- kmd's (5) when there was only 4 vote with Fate name dissapearing (in all other votecount Fate's wagon gets an extra ???).

And dramonic obviously stole Iraon vote since dramonic got a (0) in the bracket.

I think the most likely reason dramonic got killed is because of his ability that was targetting scum.

And Iraon has been trying to say his vote is probably stolen, yet casting vote all day long.

Then I understand now why he said he isn't scum with LLD in #1294, he is trying to claim confirmed town post-hoc when he must have really thought his vote was stolen and counted for nothing.

@Iraon, how are you confirmed town if you thought you didn't count anyway?

Guys this is scum.

[springlullaby]

I thought every fiber of your being was screaming Muffin was scum Spring, not iraon

Is that directed at me?

It still does. But I think Iraon is really scummy today.

Btw, I'm not blind to the fact taht Muffin has magically dissapeared from the thread.

But from the claims, I'd rather have Iraon first.

[springlullaby]

Err no. You could be scum with Fate and pressuring me to vote for a mislynch.

[springlullaby]

No, Fate can't force a no lynch with the partner, I already did the math in thread. Fate is a double voter not a vote stealer.

Fate scum = 4:2+1 votes and if all townies vote together we can still achieve a scum lynch.

But in any case I see what you are saying about LLD and Iraon, but I think it is a possibility Iraon as scum really got confused whether his vote was stolen or not and I will take it into account whether you like it or not. And it is you who is not understanding.

Anyway, I made my mind up.

VOTE: Iraon

I'm stating right there that I will be reexamining the entire game from D1 no matter what if I live.
Also, given the mafia doc flip, scum should consider my vt claim. I could be trying to attract a kill or not.

Done.

[springlullaby]

Spiffeh, you are dumb.

[springlullaby]

Yeah, that's pushing it.

Fate, I still like my town read on you but you and spiffeh both clamoring and pressuring me to vote LLD is like way beyond to me.

Either of you could be scum with Iraon. Even with his double vote Fate scum is only 3:1+1 after today's lynch.

I'm still liking my Fate read and I think his unvote today is consistent with his play throughout the game that I feel is really town, and I think the DGB counterwagon has to count for something though spiffeh is really wearing my patience thin.

So yeah, spiffeh. You either drop what I think is possibly a really immature attitude or you are scum and you can get lynched today no problem.

[springlullaby]

springlullaby I know exactly what will happen if you get your way

iraon will flip scum (yay!) and Fate will likely be nk'd

Since you're completely misted by LLD, she will somehow convince you despite the overwhelming evidence against her that myself or Muffin have to be the final scum.

Assuming Muffin gets his head out of his ass, we will be deadlocked tomorrow.

LLD kills myself or Muffin (the person she's NOT pushing as the final lynch) and convinces you once again to vote with her

And we lose

So my vote will not be changing, sorry

Oh, so you want to "get your way".

This is the last time I'm stating it here, contrarily to you, I'm not 14, I will re-examine the game and none of you know what my decision will be and I'm good with it that way.

[springlullaby]

Actually Fate, is spiffeh really that obtuse?

[springlullaby]

Actually,

UNVOTE

briefly skimmed recent pages

fyi, spiffeh, iraon is likely voteless today due to dram (and he knows this) so it's not like he could hammer anyone if he wanted to

Yeah, alright muffin welcome to parrot city.

Who are you scumreads.

[springlullaby]

LLD:
- I read her appeal to Fate to hammer her as town.
- I read her actual actions as town, but her recent insistence that she must be town because of them make me wifom wary again.
- I also have a problem with her activity peaks. In perspective it does seems that she is only active when she is being called out and that's more of a scum pattern.
- I don't know how much of calling me obvious town is townish or buddying, generally people tend to read me as town when I'm town, but I piss off plenty of people in the process too.

Muffin:
I'm kinda bothered by the fact that his argument about setup make sense to me. I think in a 11:3 setup as it looks like governor+roblock+votesteal+double vote vs a mafia doctor and nothing else is too townsided. But then I'm also bothered by the fact that everything he is saying about Iraon today more or less parrot what I said at one point or another. I can imagine 1 shot executioner+???. But the fact that DGB was a mafia doctor still makes me itchy, it doesn't look symmetric.

Spiffeh:
Basically I'm basing my read on the counterwagon to DGB. Tonally, some of his posts I really like and read really town in their ease. But then, there seems to be very little rhyme or reason to his suspicions.
But then,

And I'm fairly confident that iraon is your buddy

So yes i've stopped thinking for the most part

Tomorrow I'll probably reconsider Muffin and springlullaby again (assuming Fate is nk'd) but beyond some really convincing shit I don't see my mind changing

Stuff like that makes me eww. It's basically working on the assumption that he'll be alive tomorrow. And why should muffin be reconsidered from your perspectived, or are you assuming muffin is bussing?

Iraon:
- Thought tonally I read him as town a lot of times, his actions and particularly vote history is pretty terrible.
- I don't know how to take the '70% of times I'm mislynched as town' comment. It's kind of a strange comment that echoes something he said D1 to the same effect that I thought felt town, but rethinking of it most player who are mislynched kind of don't know why they are being mislynched, and here he does use it as something similar to a newbie card.
- His using the ??? as a way of clearing him of being scum with LLD is really scummy. It's relying on a blindspot - the specifics of the setup - that goes way beyond general assumption of it being balanced.

Fate:
- I'm consistently liking his actions during the game.
- But what worries me is that tonally I don't read him as town as much as another game (in which I read him as scum while he was town).
- I also don't like the fact that he describe my logic as unsound when it is: he isn't confirmed town even with his ability.
- There is also the fact that he claimed GreyIce when it has come to my attention that DGB's role name is trump+equinox the other mod.
- I'm also getting paraonoia his not hammering because of his vig comment. It kinda make sense because DGB flipped mafia doctor (which I've previously missed) but it is also possible he is, and the entire scumteam by extension, is playing cautious because they fear there being a vig.

So yeah, bascially the whole discussion about possible scumteams due to not hammering is just rolleyes to me and I don't know how you guys who can't be all scum are so sure of yourselves when there isn't mathematical facts present. Like I totally won the only SK game I've ever played just because town had wrong assumptions about the setup.

Anyway, I'm meh and undecided at the moment, though if I had to make a decision right now Iraon is the one I'd really like to lynch based on actions. But I'll let it sit for a couple day more, see some reaction to what I posted and decide.

[springlullaby]

Also, what about a 4 man scumteam? Why are we assuming 3 here?

[springlullaby]

I guess you're right, we already lost because Fate wants to vote the wrong person... I hope he will rethink, though.

See, that bothers me, how are you so sure LDD is the wrong person? At this point I don't have any certainties anymore beside who I think is scummiest.

[springlullaby]

Also, what about a 4 man scumteam? Why are we assuming 3 here?

???

If it's a 4 man scum team and there are 3 scum alive with 6 players alive.... you do the math.

Yeah ok, I was thinking in terms of votes to lynch, forgot about same number of scum alive thing = scum win thing.

[springlullaby]

Well, wait and see then.

[springlullaby]

Huh, no Fate will have a long explanation to do if he doesn't have a double vote today because it messes up all my assumptions from the votecounts. Unless Iraon is lying I guess.

Mod: Would an hypothetical vote blocker block both or only one vote from an hypothetical double voter?

[springlullaby]

I will not be satisfied with that since he has called gg.

[springlullaby]

Spiffeh, riddle me this, why are you hell bent on lynching LLD - even if Fate turns out to be not a dv - if you think Iraon is scum anyway.

[springlullaby]

I'm not actually manipulable so you can put that back in the damp sock stinking drawer it came from as an argument.

[springlullaby]

I will not be satisfied with that since he has called gg.

If he were scum and this was gg he could have lynched her way earlier than this

But if he was fearing a vig - as he indicated that he thought there may be, he may have preferred to play cautiously.
So, what?

[springlullaby]

Why speaking to people is so tedious in this game.

To pretend?

Anyway, I'm not liking this conversation and Fate will definitively have to do a lot of explanation if LLD isn't hammered.

[springlullaby]

Actually, I'm really flipping out right now that it's spiffeh+fate because of the extended vig talk.

[springlullaby]

How old are you?

[springlullaby]

yeah ok, you forgot to capitalize the F.

Anyway. I'm off.

All I said stands.

[springlullaby]

VOTE: no-lynch

[springlullaby]

VOTE: NO LYNCH
VOTE: NO LYNCH
VOTE: NO LYNCH

[springlullaby]

I'm pissed off right now.

[springlullaby]

Yeah well, we're not even sure we won because Katsuki don't answer straight up BOLDED questions.

And if Fate is a third party SK with a nightkill he won.

But yeah, town has lost.

[springlullaby]

I hope it's not and we can outvote you

that would be funny

To be honest, you wouldn't deserve it. Sorry bro.

[springlullaby]

It's ok though because Muffin's pretty good (and a good sport given the pressure I put on him all game), and DGB threw a gigantic wifom wrench that was pretty funny.
I was pretty good at looking like town too I think.

[springlullaby]

We agreed to no quick hammer in case of vote shenanigans.

[springlullaby]

And Fate claimed GreyIce which we thought may be a NK immune third party.

[springlullaby]

Yeah, if Fate is a SK he has basically a 50/50 chance of ending the game when game goes to night.
But what we're not clear on BECAUSE KATSUKI IS VAGUE AS FUCK is whether he win with his double vote if we get to 2:1.

That's why I'm pissed off and I want the game to end anyway.

If Fate is a SK, it's gg Fate etc.

[springlullaby]

can you guys convert me to the scum team so I don't lose

Sure, vote Fate and we'll make you a honorary scum member so we don't get ANOTHER FUCKING NIGHT PHASE WITH ANSWER THAT ARE AMBIGUOUS ON PURPOSE.

[springlullaby]

Yeah, DGB did it on a whim, and we rolled along with it. Was pretty funny and it almost worked too.

[springlullaby]

^^That was more my fault, I read farside's dgb's vote as a cop guilty. And DGB went for it.

I tried to distract the town with the LLD tangent and we discussed crossbussing between Muffin and I, to unvote DGB but in the end we agreed bussing was safer.

[springlullaby]

Thought honestly LLD killing off the town multishot governor D1was a real stroke of luck here so we kinda had it easy.