Katsuki's Madness Prequel II - Game Over

[zMuffinMan]

literally takes me all of two seconds to open up the other recently finished large game and see a bunch more role double-ups: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=67071

gee, so rare, you guys must be cleared. can't see any way anyone could have more than one role in a game

[zMuffinMan]

gee, the next most recently finished large theme game and even more double-ups: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=67413

wow, so rare, i can believe you've never encountered that before and you're not just making whatever shit you can up after being backed into a corner

[zMuffinMan]

yeah, "unlikely", because you said so, right?

don't even know why i'm engaging with you

[zMuffinMan]

the point isn't even about what is or isn't "likely", btw

it's that you're trying to clear yourself of being scum

and you're trying to use that as a crutch to suggest that it's spiffeh and me

but you're speaking out of your ass in a desperate attempt to deflect the suspicion coming towards you and LLD

and ignoring the facts to do this

there ARE plenty of possible explanations for why the ??? exists - i don't know what the actual explanation is. maybe you're right and i'm wrong about a role double-up. it could be something else. i don't care. the only people who care about discussing that sort of thing are scum who are trying to use it against people

[zMuffinMan]

it's 11:3. town had a decent numbers advantage and plenty of roles to play around. there's no imbalance if you and LLD are scum

arguably, scum NEED at least that sort of power to stand even a chance against town. what you're suggesting is that the remaining scum members are essentially goons vs the supposedly imbalanced power you and LLD have, a governor, a double voter, a vote thief and a roleblocker... yeah

[zMuffinMan]

Think about how unbalanced it would be if LLD and I were both scum-aligned... It just wouldn't fit. Both the roles are ones that are stupid to play against as scum-aligned, too.

like your standard mini is 10:3

cupcake threw in an extra town member and two roles that can prevent lynches/deaths (roleblocker/governor)

on paper, roleblocker+governor+vote thief+double-voter with a numbers advantage is plenty of power (not including spyrex's shitbox role rofl)

throw in you and LLD's role on top of that?

nope, not unless scum have some way of controlling the vote counts themselves (and no, the ??? does not count as a way of controlling the vote counts, let alone controlling anything)

from the perspective of setup spec, it's far more likely cupcake DID give scum a way of controlling votecounts (you) and a way of countering the more annoying town power roles (LLD)

especially if you're limited in some way (LLD's role probably had to be used early and your role is probably limited in some way; at the very least, we haven't seen it past that one day you actually proved it)

[zMuffinMan]

so it's 12:2?

[zMuffinMan]

why is fate still alive

[zMuffinMan]

just checked the no lynch rules in case fate IS a scum double voter

technically he shouldn't be able to force a no lynch by himself because it requires 3 votes with 5 in play ("enough votes that no other majority can happen" is the only wording about it)

[zMuffinMan]

i dont see how this got approved for balance unless the remaining scum just has some batshit crazy power and the only player still alive i could see fitting that description is fate, unless there's something else that somehow hasn't been revealed for the entire game

[zMuffinMan]

vote thief and vote stealer put in place to counter a scum double voter would also make a lot of sense

[zMuffinMan]

Is it possible that a scum player can flip town?

That's one of the only explanations I can think of for the imbalance

i think death godfathers are bastard

[zMuffinMan]

it was advertised as such in the large theme queue thingy

[zMuffinMan]

Is it possible your game has any of the following: cults, mid-game alignment changes, moderator lies that cannot be reasonably anticipated (for example, Godfather, Tailor, Miller, Ninja, and mechanics like that are generally fine. Telling someone they are a reflexive doctor when they're actually a PGO is not), secret win conditions, un-divulged non-randomness in player role/alignment generation, direct moderator influence during the game? (Yes/No) - No

though that said it was also advertised with the title "equinox is a meanie mafia" so he's already a bastard mod for changing the game name

[zMuffinMan]

im gonna take a wild stab and say scum didn't fully plan that one out or think about it past "trololol tee hee"

[zMuffinMan]

if there's two scum left, the game would already be over...

[zMuffinMan]

if that were the case then why wouldn't scum kill the double-voter?

[zMuffinMan]

the reality of the situation is that if anyone but you were scum here, youd be dead, because your role would literally the only one that actually was a threat to scum

why does scum kill iraon and leave you alive?

[zMuffinMan]

look if me and the last townie vote scum we win

also, this is obviously wrong. if it were 2:2 and you were town, lynching scum would just make the game go to night phase

where is the "we win" there?

[zMuffinMan]

also if it were 2:2, then from your POV it would still have to be spiffeh+me, given spring didn't hammer LLD yesterday (which, if she were scum with spiffeh or me, she could have done, then killed you, then ended the game)

there's 1 scum left, and you're probably fear-mongering because you know you need to or it becomes obvious that you shouldn't be alive

[zMuffinMan]

HURT: cupcake

[zMuffinMan]

Vote: No Lynch

[zMuffinMan]

yeah well, fucking cupcake

[zMuffinMan]

i mean, whatever. this game should have been over at the end of yesterday

[zMuffinMan]

I hope it's not and we can outvote you

that would be funny

it is. already verified no lynch requires only two votes and that iraon's ability isn't active

cupcake just gave me an ambiguous answer to a question i asked, which is the only reason this game isn't over

[zMuffinMan]

eh. shit happens, i wouldn't worry about it. not like you were alone in that

[zMuffinMan]

Why didn't you guys just hammer LLD and kill Fate?

because voting shenanigans might have been in play. fate might have been lying about the double vote being active, iraon might have lied about trying to block dram, there might have been something else in play that could have prevented a quick hammer, etc

it was correct play to not quick-hammer even if it would have been successful

[zMuffinMan]

perhaps, but it's safer all round just to not do so and let town implode

[zMuffinMan]

two, actually

[zMuffinMan]

springlullaby is also a doc

[zMuffinMan]

@spiffeh, i mean, pobody's nerfect and it's not like even the best players you can think of have consistently good reads so i wouldn't beat yourself up over it

i am just happy this is over barring cupcake drawing this out through another night phase for no good reason

[zMuffinMan]

lol @ you guys faking a guilty on hiplop

wasn't even discussed. iirc dgb thought farside had a guilty on her and then... that happened

[zMuffinMan]

oh right it was meant to come off as a reaction test thingy but then she missed the window of opportunity to actually back down from it and i was like "yeah, just roll with it"