Mgm's Egypt Mafia - Over

[Setael]

Hello, hello. It will take me some time to read this thread... but I'm on it!

[Setael]

So after a fairly quick skim, I'm going to throw out the notes I took as I went.

Mafia Suspects:
TSS - Post 299
MOS - Posts 706, 748, 793, 803 and 816
Niempie - Posts 744, 877
Zindaras - Post 810

Town (with posts that made me think they're town)
Rafk (more than I care to list)
Zindaras - Post 238
Nightson - Post 544
VD, Yogurt - Post 835
TSS - Post 761

As you can see, I need to go back and read a lot more closely. For now, I will say that I think Kilroy is telling the truth about being a cop because he was such an arrogant, know-it-all jerk about it, and I just don't see anyone doing that to the extent he did if there's a chance we'd eventually find out it wasn't true. Assuming he's a cop, this clears VD, Yogurt and Rafk.

At this point I think MOS and Niempie look the most scummy, but take that for what it's worth until I can go back and read their posts more carefully. I need a little more time before I'd be able to vote.

And, now that the mafia roleblocker might have to choose between Rafk and Kilroy, I'd just like to say in case Pinky or Pooky or whoever didn't:

I am pro-town.

Sorry I don't have time to embed any quotes or posts. It's quittin' time.

[Setael]

I’ll start with MoS, since he’s highest on my list at this point. When the night ended abruptly, he was quite upset and said (post 706):

I'm really pissed off at whoever did this.

Judging from how angry he was about this, it seems he was unable to use a night action, so he’s either mafia or an investigative power role of some kind (as a doc type is unnecessary when there are no NKs). Based on how many power roles have already been killed and/or claimed, it is much more likely that he is mafia. I recognize that he later admitted we profit from the skipped night, but his initial reaction is what I found scummy.

I also think it’s scummy that in Post 767 when pressed, he wouldn’t give any names and was super noncommittal.

Dunno. The last 2 days or so have gone by without me getting to do much, so I don't even remember where I stand anymore. I'm kindof annoyed at TSS for calling me scum without anything to back it up, but that doesn't make him scum. VD is probably town, and RafK seems legit. I don't remember if anyone else alive has claimed. I think I was suspicious of The Fonz earlier, but we all revived him, and I think I'm a little less suspicious, after seeing the reasons for reviving him. *shrug* I'll have to reevaluate.

I personally think anyone who is Town is more likely to fearlessly bring up any suspicions, whereas mafia has to be really careful, which is what this post looked like to me.

So then post 793 he votes for Nightson, which he later insisted was a joke, which I would buy except… not long after he voted, he said:

Nightson claimed? Didn't know that.

Unvote

If it was a joke, why would it matter if he had claimed or not? And why didn’t he mention the fact that it was just a joke THEN instead of several posts later when he started getting pressured about it?

I find Zindaras scummy because he and MoS started agreeing with each other and (without making it too obvious) defending each other after MoS made his “joke vote”. I’d gotten Town vibes from him on Post 238 when he did the Pro-Town call to not quicklynch Nightson, but I guess a clever mafia would do the same thing.

Niempie is further down the scum list, but still representing because of this:

Post 744

You still can end a night earlier, but wait a bit longer than the night was now.

So you will have time to get your night kill in? Because that seems the most likely thing to be accomplished by asking him to wait to end the night.

As for TSS, I suspected him when he was fishing Rafk’s role specifics (post 255), which seemed like it would only help the mafia. I re-read some of his posts though and 761 seemed very pro-Town so I’m not going to focus on him right now.

MGM: Can I get a vote count?

[Setael]

You are fitting the player's actions to an assumed alignment, as opposed to fitting a possible alignment to their actions, which are factual and cannot be changed.

My suspicions of you were formed while reading the entire thread from the beginning. I marked down several of your posts as seeming scummy. How could it have been done with a preconceived opinion when I was a replacement and reading it through for the first time? That you would bring this up at all seems a weak attempt at diversion.

And this:

Actually, it has more to do with the fact that I effectively missed like 2 1/2 days, thanks to VD and Albert. Hence my lack of suspicion and forgetting half of what happened.

I just don’t buy that you were that mad about missing 2½ days when nothing really happened during that time. I really think you have a night action you weren’t able to use, and because it’s very doubtful there are MORE investigative roles out there, I think your night action would’ve been a NK.

As for Zindaras, I went back to find the exact posts where MoS and Zindy seemed to be defending each other, and I saw Post 766.

Mossy, who should we lynch?

I don’t think he would be so blatant if they were scum buddies, so I’ll back up off that.

It looks like the last vote count was:

Vote count
Kilroy8675309 (5): Blight, Nightson, TSS, Thoth, MOS
Blight (2): Sacred, Kilroy8675309
Sacred (2): inHimshallibe, Niempie
Niempie (1): Zindaras
Zindaras (1): The Fonz

It's 8 votes to lynch

And the only change since then is Kilroy voting for MoS, so it looks like I’m safe to

Vote: MoS

As I already said, I’m pretty sure Kilroy’s roleclaim was legitimate and therefore I find the bandwagon on him disturbing. If Kilroy is the detective, the mafia will off him during the next night, right? Why are you doing their job for them? If you think about it, Albert was clearly a crazy type detective who was just getting false info. It makes sense that there would be at least one detective who would get real info. If I’m right, I think that a couple of those votes on Kilroy are mafia. MoS being one likely possibility, and since Nightson is practically a confirmed townie, that leaves three on my radar.

Here’s an idea: Kilroy, you said the flavor you gave was BS… well, can you encode your real flavor like Albert did so that Nightson can ask about you during the next night? That way we’ll have a way of proving your flavor and if for some reason mafia lets you live through the next night (which I doubt), we’ll know we can trust you.

[Setael]

Evidently I misunderstood about Albert - I thought he really was investigating Townies and being told they were guilty, but his title on the dead list doesn't say anything but night starter, so I think you're right that he was just lying. What a weirdo. In any case, I'll bet a couple mafia felt safe throwing their vote on him, knowing no one would mind since he was being such a hindrance. One more reason to suspect MoS.

That has nothing to do with defending. I ask questions like that a lot. It's a way of asking for suspicions. I felt Mossy's opinions weren't very clear, so I asked him who he wanted to die.

The way I see this exchange is like when you're playing in real life and you see two people sitting next to each other and one turns to the other and says "Who should we lynch?" there's almost no chance that they're BOTH mafia. It's much more likely that one is trying to get a read on the other one, or like you said, asking them for their suspicions. I'm pretty sure MoS is scum so Zindaras is looking pretty Town to me. Not an exact science, but it's a hunch.

As for Kilroy, the main reason I think he's a detective is his antagonistic, patronizing attitude from the moment he roleclaimed. If he was mafia and was going to roleclaim, I think he wouldn't have been so arrogant and repugnant. He seems like the type who wouldn't mind getting lynched so he can tell us all how stupid we were to kill him and lose an investigator. It's actually quite distasteful to defend him, but the chance of more successful investigations is worth not lynching him. In fact, the chance of making the roleblocker choose between him and Rafk is worth not lynching him. Plus, why waste our day lynch on someone the mafia will be motivated to use a NK on?

[Setael]

Blight had previously been one of the few defenders of Albert, then even here he admits he thinks he's town, but votes him anyway. I to some extent feel that only scum (who knew Albert wasn't one of them) had good reason to defend Albert, and it's redoubled in this case by the fact that he said he thought Albert was town but then voted him anyway.

2 things.
1) The entire time I read the thread I never once thought Albert could possibly be mafia. It seemed very obvious to me that he was Town that was doing some very stupid things, and the wagon on him looked very much like mafia taking advantage of the fact that all the Townies were willing to lynch him because he was being extremely unhelpful and pissing everyone off. So I don't agree that only scum had good reason to defend Albert. I felt the same way Blight did at the time he replaced when I was reading that part of the thread.
2) That being said, I think it's odd that Blight voted for Albert.

The votes still on Kilroy are TSS, Thoth and MOS. This is my proposal: those 3 remove their votes and we give Kilroy one night since tonight he will find out another name. Then most likely he will get killed tonight and your work is done for you, no worries. If he's not killed it will be either because the doc protected him or maybe he really is mafia. He can then tell us the name he was given. If you still suspect him, fine. Lynch him and when he comes up cop at least we'll have one more name cleared than we have now. Frankly, I think the mafia will try to kill him as soon as possible because they can't risk him finding out about them, nor can they risk him confirming more innocents.

Clearly MOS doesn't want to move his vote because he's the main target. What about you other 2? It does not make sense to lynch a claimed cop, any way you slice it. I can see either MoS or Blight, and maybe even Niempie but I think we need to come to an agreement before a deadline hits us and we get a no lynch.

I don't think it's uncalled for to ask for a claim from both MoS and Blight at this point. One of them is likely to sound less reasonable and we can rally on him.

[Setael]

MOD: Can we please get a prod on the following players?

Thoth
YogurtBandit
the silent speaker
Niempie
VanDamien
The Fonz
inHimshallibe

[Setael]

MoS... did you miss all of these:

I think Kilroy is telling the truth about being a cop because he was such an arrogant, know-it-all jerk about it, and I just don't see anyone doing that to the extent he did if there's a chance we'd eventually find out it wasn't true.

As I already said, I’m pretty sure Kilroy’s roleclaim was legitimate and therefore I find the bandwagon on him disturbing. If Kilroy is the detective, the mafia will off him during the next night, right? Why are you doing their job for them? If you think about it, Albert was clearly a crazy type detective who was just getting false info. It makes sense that there would be at least one detective who would get real info.

I now realize Albert wasn't a detective at all, which makes it even more likely that there is a real cop role still among us.

If I’m right, I think that a couple of those votes on Kilroy are mafia. MoS being one likely possibility, and since Nightson is practically a confirmed townie, that leaves three on my radar.

As for Kilroy, the main reason I think he's a detective is his antagonistic, patronizing attitude from the moment he roleclaimed. If he was mafia and was going to roleclaim, I think he wouldn't have been so arrogant and repugnant. He seems like the type who wouldn't mind getting lynched so he can tell us all how stupid we were to kill him and lose an investigator. It's actually quite distasteful to defend him, but the chance of more successful investigations is worth not lynching him. In fact, the chance of making the roleblocker to choose between him and Rafk. That alone is worth not lynching him. Plus, why waste our day lynch on someone the mafia will be motivated to use a NK on?

The votes still on Kilroy are TSS, Thoth and MOS. This is my proposal: those 3 remove their votes and we give Kilroy one night since tonight he will find out another name. Then most likely he will get killed tonight and your work is done for you, no worries. If he's not killed it will be either because the doc protected him or maybe he really is mafia. He can then tell us the name he was given. If you still suspect him, fine. Lynch him and when he comes up cop at least we'll have one more name cleared than we have now. Frankly, I think the mafia will try to kill him as soon as possible because they can't risk him finding out about them, nor can they risk him confirming more innocents.

Keeping your vote on him is nothing more than a good way to insure a no-lynch day. From where I stand, it makes absolutely no sense to kill a claimed cop. If he actually survives the night he'll give us a name and then you can kill him to find out if all the names he's given you are confirmed or not. But why would you insist on doing it NOW? When it gives us no further information? By keeping him alive, we also force the roleblocker AND the mafia to decide between Rafk and Kilroy. The only real reasons I see to keep your vote on him is to avoid him confirming another townie or finding out you're mafia and, of course, helping insure a no-lynch day.

[Setael]

I'm willing to vote Blight, mostly because he voted Albert when he thought he was innocent.

unvote, vote: Blight

Blight, care to claim?

[Setael]

I'm hoping Blight's claim will provide a little insight.

[Setael]

@Fonz: You can blame me. I asked that everyone be poked to make sure we're all aware that a deadline is looming. If you're ok with a no lynch day, feel free to leave your vote on Zindaras.

You worked so hard to attack me and try to convince everyone that I'm scum, and just like that you're "willing to vote Blight"??? What happened to lynching me?

Nice try, MoS. Ever heard of a deadline? It’s pretty obvious you’re gunning for a no lynch but I, on the other hand, would hate to see that happen. Yes, I would rather see you lynched, but I am also suspicious of Blight and am therefore willing to vote him in order to avoid a no lynch day.

If we actually leave Kilroy alive, I doubt he's going to get nightkilled anytime soon. His claim has too many holes, he's more likely to be lynched first. Plus, if people believe his claim (which I don't), he might get doctor protection (no doctor should take this as advice to protect him over, say, nightson and RafK). Just because Albert wasn't an investigative role doesn't mean that the next person to claim an investigative role is telling the truth. It's entirely possible that we have power roles yet to claim, but you are assuming that the ones we already have are telling the truth, and that any further investigative roles are obviously lying because we'd have too many of them.

You're not hearing me. Yes, I think he's a legit cop but I do not deny that there is a chance the role claim was bogus. I'm not saying never kill him, I'm saying wait and get another name from him tomorrow. Then if you still think his claim is bogus, kill him and at least we'll have one more name confirmed. The only person this doesn't benefit is mafia.

You are really insistent that Kilroy's going to get killed tonight, and that really bothers me a lot. Why do you think he's going to get killed? If he's such an important role as you claim, why wouldn't he have a chance of getting doc protection? You mention doc protection as if it's a rare possibility.

This is an outright lie. How is the following being insistent he's going to get killed tonight?

If he's not killed it will be either because the doc protected him or maybe he really is mafia. He can then tell us the name he was given. If you still suspect him, fine. Lynch him and when he comes up cop at least we'll have one more name cleared than we have now.

You know what's helping to ensure a no lynch day? You going around derailing the Kilroy wagon. Don't accuse me of trying to cause a no lynch day just because I think Kilroy is scum. We had a fine wagon on him, he could've been lynched. It's not my fault that he wasn't lynched. It's scum like you who are spreading the suspicion around and causing a no lynch.

You had a “fine wagon” going on a claimed cop. The fact that you think he's scummy is beside the point right now because there's a chance he's telling us the truth, in which case ONLY mafia would want him lynched. You cannot explain to me why you would kill someone who might receive a confirmation on another person tonight because IT MAKES NO SENSE. Pointing out how hard you tried to kill a claimed cop just makes you look scummier and scummier. Can't say I blame you for trying to get him killed though. If you're mafia, which I think is a distinct possibility - if your name is the one that's been asked about, you've got big problems.

[Setael]

At deadline it's half votes for lynch, so Blight has enough at the moment.

I didn't realize that. If it only takes 4 votes at deadline, I'm more sure about MoS and I'd rather he die.

Unvote: Blight
Vote: MoS

[Setael]

You can't accuse me of both wanting a no lynch and wanting Kilroy lynched. Either I was trying to get Kilroy lynched instead of a no lynch, or I was voting Kilroy in order to cause a no lynch. You can't have it both ways, make up your mind.

To me it is the same thing, because there's no way enough people would vote for a claimed cop so voting for him is the same as pushing for a no lynch.

Hasn't Kilroy already told us his night choices? I don't believe my name was on them at all, although if it was, that would certainly help. Now that I think of it, leaving Kilroy alive is better and better. If he's genuinely town, he'll investigate me and realize that I'm protown. If he's scum, he'll fake a guilty result on me and I'll know he's scum.

Except what if he gets a guilty read on you because you're scum and he's the cop? The more pro-Town option would be to lynch you and if you turn up mafia we have a confirmed cop. The much more scummy option (and I'm not surprised this was the only one you thought of) would be to just believe you and lynch a possible cop. If we did that and he turned up the cop, sure we could kill you but then the cop would be dead. This ONLY benefits mafia. All we could say is "Oh oops he really was the cop - we shouldn't have killed him", whereas if you came up Town then Kilroy is confirmed mafia and we'd kill him.

[Setael]

You're correct. I could have sworn this game was no majority, no lynch. Think I must have gotten muddled with another ongoing game.

However that begs the question, why is Setael accusing me of contributing to a non-lynch by not voting for the most popular wagon?

I find MoS' last coupla arguments against Setael kinda compelling. Imho, 'OMG there is a deadline, we must lynch SOMEONE!' is often a scum tactic to force through an ill-considered and rushed town lynch. Also, that whole massprod request screamed 'trying to appear helpful.'

Unvote, largely symbolic Vote: Setael

I was, like you, under the impression it would take at least 4 more votes to avoid a no lynch. That's a lot to get in a few hours and that's why I asked for the prod. I guarantee if the deadline had passed with a no lynch (which seemed inevitable since I was under the impression several votes were still needed) everyone would've come out of the woodwork mad that we'd let a day slip by with a no lynch.

[Setael]

*sigh*

This puts me at -1 if I'm not mistaken which forces me to role claim as well before anyone else throws their vote on me for no reason like Blight did.

I am Ptolemy V. Epiphanes and whoever is responsible for my death will also die. So if a Townie hammers me we will lose two Townies. I don't mind claiming because now that you know, the worst thing that can happen is scum kills me tonight, and we trade one for one because one of the scum will also die.

However, let me emphasize this: if I am lynched and it is a Townie that hammers, we lose two Townies which is unacceptable.

[Setael]

Except that we once had enough votes for him to be lynched at deadline, so I wasn't pushing for no lynch at all. Nice try, though.

From where I stood we needed 8 votes to lynch him since I didn't know about the half majority deadline. There was no way you were going to get 8 votes on a claimed cop, so my argument stands.

Now that I realize you had enough votes to kill the claimed cop I can see even more why (if you were mafia) you would've wanted the deadline to pass with those 4 votes on him. No wonder you're mad at me. I foiled your evil genius plan to kill the cop.

Also, you once again make assumptions about me, because what if my role was more valuable than Kilroy's? Then lynching him first would be the more protown option. You don't know my role at all, so you're making bad assumptions in order to try and make me look bad. If I have an important role and Kilroy is scum, then sure you could kill me first and then lynch him as confirmed mafia, but I'd still be dead.

Touchẻ. I had not thought of the possibility of you having a power role better than a cop because first of all, I think you're mafia, and second, I'm unaware of a more pro-Town role than the cop. I'm not asking you to enlighten me because we've had more than too many role claims for one day, but it doesn't change the fact that I think you're scum.

[Setael]

I'm very much doubting Satael. The claim is as Fonz already said nice and safe, both the mechanic and the character.

Do you mean that the character is safe because it would for sure be used by the mod in this game? I would agree with that, and therefore every one of you knows by virtue of the fact that your character is NOT Ptolemy that I'm telling the truth.

What I dislike even more is him

(HER)

changing his

(HER)

vote the moment he

(SHE)

finds out we have enough votes for a deadline lynch he

(SHE)

changes his

(HER)

vote so that noone gets lynched (if no other votes get in) 3 hours before the deadline.

I can see where you would think that, and so I will explain. It was becoming obvious that not enough people agreed with me on MoS to get him lynched in the few hours until deadline (I thought we needed SIX more, mind you). So, because I thought we only had hours to lynch someone, and since I also was suspicious of Blight, I decided after Rafk's and then Kilroy's posts voting for Blight that I could see a strong enough case against Blight that it was worth switching my vote to avoid the no lynch. As soon as I was told that it would only take 4 votes to lynch someone at deadline, I put my vote back on MoS where it belongs. At that point, I no longer thought we were in danger of a no lynch. Four votes are easy enough (oh, look! I have four now!) so I no longer feel it is my responsibility to add my vote in order to get us to 8 votes.

I did like his kilroy defense (which was the reason I unvoted kilroy for today), but that's not necesarrily a point in his favour if he really thought we needed 8 to lynch (so looking at an almost certain no lynch from his point of view at that time).

If I was mafia the last thing I would do is defend the cop so vehemently when you were all jumping on the wagon to lynch him. I'd have let him go down in flames, thrilled that he wasn't going to clear anyone else or do anything further to hinder the mafia.

Thoth, I think you are Town since you were killed by the mafia and then revived by a Townie. I am on my knees begging you not to get us both killed. In my opinion, you are confirmed Town since you were killed by the mafia and then revived by a Townie. I recognize that all the "safe claim" stuff you can say is true. There's nothing I can do about that, that's my character. I had no choice but to warn all Townies that if they vote me they will also die which REALLY helps the mafia. If I'm going to die, at least let someone who is not as confirmed Town as you are hammer me. Then when we both die there's a chance they're mafia, and if they're not at least they were someone the Town couldn't be so sure about. The worst thing that could happen is you and I both die, or maybe Rafk and I or Nightson and I. If I'm going to die at deadline, don't let me take down a practically confirmed Townie with me.

[Setael]

Setael, I didn't say I had a better role, nor am I going to claim my role. I'm just saying that you didn't consider all the possibilities because you're assuming that I'm scum. However, I would like to ask this question. Let's say, for example, that Kilroy says I'm scum, and I claimed roleblocker, with results to back up my claim. Would you say that Kilroy's role is so much more important than mine that you should lynch me just because you think I'm scummy, even though you admit that Kilroy could be bullshitting us all?

No. If you had proof you were a Town roleblocker and Kilroy had named you scum, I would be perfectly content burning Kilroy at the stake because that would obviously prove that he was lying.

Acting like Kilroy is not going to go over well with me, by the way. I can almost give Kilroy a pass for a day because of his behavior, but condescension and derision are not going to make me think you are protown. Try acting a little more mature if you want to be believed.

Was this directed at me? If I have shown condescension and derision toward you, I apologize because that was never my intent. I would appreciate you quoting what I said that you interpreted as acting like Kilroy, because I would certainly never want to act as he does. Also, please show me how I have acted immaturely, as I would not want to continue anything that is being interpreted as such.

This does not change the fact that I think you are mafia.

[Setael]

All I ask is that if it gets close to deadline and I still have enough votes to die, make MoS remove his vote and put it back on so he's the one that dies with me. He seems the most convinced of any of you that I'm scum, so he'll be willing to hammer (or be the 4th vote) since if I'm scum I'm lying about my role claim and whoever hammers is safe as can be.

If he refuses to be the final vote on me, then evidently he's not so sure I'm scum after all.

[Setael]

Either way, my refusal or agreement to hammer you is the same as The Fonz's. I'm not going to let people go rolefishing on me.

Why would you have to share anything about your role? If I'm scum (which you believe by virtue of the fact that you're voting for me) then you aren't risking death by hammering me, because I'd be lying about my role claim. However, if you don't really believe I'm scum (maybe because you know the identity of all the scum) you won't be willing to risk that my role claim is true, and you won't be willing to be the cause of my death.

You do bring up a good point about the Fonz. He also, by virtue of not being willing to be the final vote, does not truly believe that I am scum. If you did really think I was scum, you wouldn't hesitate to be the one hammering me regardless of any Power role, and if you don't really think I'm scum then why are you voting for me at all?

[Setael]

Yeah. He can't truly believe you're scum, 'cause he doesn't know. There are very few absolutes in this game. The reason he won't say whether or not he'll hammer you is because it then informs the Mafia (whether you're Mafia or not) whether he thinks his role is a power role for the Town or not.

I hadn't thought of that. Guess it will need to be up to the Town who gets to die with me, like Thoth said. I can only ask that you not let it be someone who is practically confirmed Town.

[Setael]

Complete disconnect between flavour and role- there is no reason to think Ptolemy V Epiphanes would be a bomb, and indeed, there is decent reason to think he might be scum- the RL pharoah was regarded as something of a tyrant. If ptolemy V were in the game, I would expect it to be as a Ptolemy/Cleopatra mason group.

As for flavor, all I know is I'm a child king and anyone who is responsible for my death will commit suicide out of shame and grief. Everything I've said came straight out of my pm. I haven't even googled Ptolemy to see if that flavor makes sense with common knowledge of Egyptian history. I was told nothing about Cleopatra and I'm not a mason.

Thoth, I think you are Town since you were killed by the mafia and then revived by a Townie.

Woah. Where'd you get that idea?

Do you see any possibility that something else happened? Thoth was a NK and then was revived during the next night - heiroglyphs post 579, with Nanook translating them 580. My assumption was he was killed by the mafia, and there is a Town Power role that was able to revive someone during the night. I guess I didn't consider that maybe there would be a mafia role that could revive someone? And then... what? The mafia killed Thoth and then revived him so he'd look really Town? I'll have to think on that... kind of overpowers the mafia, but we've got quite a few power roles as well so I guess it's possible. If they were able to do that, effectively making Thoth a traitor, then it will hurt us even more that so many of you seem willing to take out all the roles that could hurt the mafia.

As far as my death is concerned, unless there are groups of mafia that don't know about each other, the only person you'll be able to get to kill me is Town. The mafia all know that I'm not mafia and am therefore telling the truth, so none of them are going to be willing to hammer me. So we're pretty much guaranteed to lose two town if I die by lynch. Even if there are groups that don't know about each other, in which case they won't know for sure that I'm telling the truth, I still doubt anyone who is mafia will be willing to take that chance.

[Setael]

I interpreted it as lynch-only. If it works for both lynching and killing, then I'm pretty sure it's bullshit. The lynch-only role was rare, but at least people used it occasionally.

Two points to MGM for originality, then, because it applies to both deciding voter and killer.

Uh...that's still possibly killing two townies. Why not just have RafK or Kilroy confirm him at night?

Unfortunately, Kilroy won't be able to since he's already submitted the name he will be finding out about. He could send in my name tonight (along with another since he gets to send in two), but wouldn't get the result until the following night if I'm not mistaken. I would appreciate Rafk being willing to investigate me in order to prove I'm telling the truth, though it frustrates me that he would only be confirming something I already know. I'd much rather he be able to use his investigation to find one of the scum. However, I think my role could be a huge detriment to the mafia when it gets down to the wire, since one of them would have to sacrifice himself in order to get rid of me. So, yeah, I think it's worth confirming me. The bad news is that in order for that to work, the doc would have to protect Rafk, leaving Kilroy vulnerable and then he wouldn't be able to give us another name. I don't like that option either, but at least if Kilroy comes up Town, all the names he's given us so far could be trusted.

[Setael]

Setael, why are you trying to get Kilroy killed? The doc does *not* have to protect RafK. The doc can protect whoever they want, stop directing our protection. You *really* want to see Kilroy dead, don't you? That's like the 8th time you've assumed he's most likely going to end up dead tomorrow.

Give me a break, MoS. If you are mafia, you're not being very subtle. I really don't think you could possibly be Town, considering how much you're twisting my words. I did not say the doc HAS to protect Rafk. I said that in order for Blight's suggestion to work, the doc would need to protect Rafk so that he could confirm me. I do NOT want Kilroy dead, nor does it make any sense that you keep accusing me of that when I've been the strongest supporter of keeping Kilroy alive.

[Setael]

Ok so I thought about Kilroy's claim and it looks like both Nightson and I are wrong about how Kilroy's investigations work. If I'm understanding correctly, he sends in 2 names on odd numbered nights and receives confirmation on one of them that night and the other the following night. Since tonight is Night 5 he will send in 2 and receive confirmation on one of them tonight, and the other one tomorrow. So I was wrong. Either of them could confirm me if that is what they choose to do. I was thinking Kilroy wouldn't be able to send in AND get confirmation on a name tonight so Rafk was the only possibility. If that was the case, like I said, in order for that plan to work Rafk would've needed to survive the night (hence my assumption about the doc that MoS freaked out about).

[Setael]

Saying "in order for this plan to work, the doc would need to protect Rafk" is hardly directing the doc. He is still, obviously, free to do whatever he wants.

Which of the following statements are not true?

In order for Rafk to confirm a role the following day, he needs to survive the night.
Rafk is practically a confirmed cop.
Rafk will likely be a target tonight.
If targeted (which is likely), Rafk would need to be protected by the doc in order to survive the night.

I don't see what's so alarming about anything I said. The only thing that was wrong about it was I was thinking Kilroy had no way of confirming me tonight so it had to be Rafk. I now realize it could be either of them if that is what they choose to do. So quit freaking out about it and accusing me of

directing

the doc, which I never did.

[Setael]

Gotcha. Didn't think of that - I felt like everything I was saying would be pretty obvious to everyone else, and I didn't think of the implications on speculating on who the doc would protect at all. Definitely something I should keep in mind in the future.

In other news, I thought of a reason I should definitely be investigated by our cops tonight. I assure us one dead mafia, whereas if they ask about someone else and that person happens to be Town all it gives us is a confirmed Townie that can then be NK'd by mafia later. But if they investigate me, we are guaranteed one of two possible outcomes, both of which are very good for the Town:
1) You find out I'm telling the truth, and you don't lynch me, thereby forcing mafia to kill me which will also kill one of them.
2) You find out I'm mafia and kill me.
Either way, a mafia dies.

This only works if they both investigate me so that in case one of them is NK'd, the other one can still confirm me. It makes sense. I'm the only person that if you investigate, no matter what happens you are able to get one of the mafia out of the way.

Just in case the mod missed it when I said it before...

I am pro-Town.

I am not mafia.

[Setael]

Nice try. You're actually #5 there, buddy. Kind of hard to believe your vote count was THAT far off. Trying to get me lynched? I think it would be wise to not misstate how many votes are on me, since whoever places the last one needs to be aware that they are going to die.

MOD: can we please get a VC?

My role claim gives us a fool-proof plan for getting one of the mafia killed (either me if I'm lying, or one of them if you force one of them to kill me instead of doing it yourselves which would lose us 2 townies). As far as I'm concerned, as long as the option for confirming me exists, anyone who pushes for my death is either mafia or really dense.

[Setael]

Yes. The person responsible for my death, either deciding voter or killer, will commit suicide out of shame and grief.

[Setael]

*gives the kittens a big hug*

[Setael]

Kilroy has just confessed to being scum partners with Setael. Who wants to bet he unvotes right before the deadline and Setael turns out to be a scum bomb, thereby enacting a surprise kill on the guy before him?

This sounds like poorly thought out propaganda. First of all, how is that Kilroy confessing to being scum? He "turned on me" in that he voted for me, and I did just as he said - called his vote scummy even though I've vigilantly upheld that I think he's the cop. All this about me being a scum bomb seems like TSS trying to push the wagon on me without actually voting. Now why wouldn't he want to vote for me? Oh yeah... if he's scum, he knows I'm telling the truth. So it makes sense for him to not vote for me because if no other votes are added before the deadline Tuesday, he would die right along with me.

Speaking of which, Kilroy I still think you really are a cop (though I recognize I could be wrong, and your vote on me makes me wonder if I am). However, you thought you were only the third vote which put you in no danger. You were actually the fifth vote, and are now the fourth since MoS unvoted, so if you really are the cop I highly suggest you remove your vote from me, because if things stay the way they are right now, you and I will both die once the deadline hits. That hardly seems ideal for Town.

I don't think a no lynch will help us either, and I am as suspicions right now of TSS as I am of MoS. I also want to look at Niempie. So for now

unvote

. I think the whole situation is getting tricky because mafia knows that I'll likely either get lynched at deadline and come up Town, or I'll get investigated tonight and come up Town. So either way, they need to play their cards carefully because once everyone knows I'm Town, they'll be looking pretty closely at everyone who pushed to get me lynched.

[Setael]

Yeah... like vote counts...

mod: wakey, wakey

[Setael]

MGM: Thanks for the VC. I was under the impression we had until midnight tonight. Did I miss an announcement that this changed? 4.5 hours makes the deadline... today at 5 p.m.? If others are also thinking the deadline is tonight between 11 and midnight like you originally said, they might not check the thread before 5 p.m.

Just in case Kilroy doesn't check the thread in the next 4.5 hours, I'm going to have to

vote: Niempie

and hope that either someone else adds a vote, or someone removes one from my wagon. It would be epic stupidity for the cop to die along with another Townie (or mafia doing a really good job at steering things to go how they want).

@Fonz: You say you're not happy about staking a claimed cop's life on it, and yet you DO. Why don't you unvote and then re-vote me if you're so sure I'm scum and don't want to risk killing a claimed cop? The only reason I can see that you didn't do that is if you are scum.

[Setael]

Seeing how the discussion improved, I will extend the deadline to Tuesday, same time, but you guys better make sure you keep it up.

Was the deadline moved from Tuesday to Monday and I missed it? I can see the time difference... but that would make the deadline tomorrow at 5 p.m. my time if I'm not mistaken. Sorry to be a pest, but if people are thinking the deadline is tomorrow they might not check the post in time which as it stands will be disastrous for the Town, so you can understand my concern.

[Setael]

Sure, it wasn't that hard to think of- but it was beneficial to the town, and scum don't tend to suggest unprompted things that are to the town's benefit.

I strongly disagree. I think it's very likely that any given mafia member would realize the inevitability of someone suggesting turning Rafk into a full-fledged cop. Knowing this, mafia would be very motivated to suggest it first in order to look pro-Town, knowing that they may have a chance to NK him later.

[Setael]

I really don't understand that mindset. There's another way of finding out if I'm telling the truth, and that's investigating me tonight. It baffles me that you people are really willing to let 2 Townies die when you have the option of waiting ONE DAY and finding out tonight that I am a Town bomb. It is not my fault that my role sounds like a bluff. I had never even heard of a role like that, and I certainly wouldn't have been able to make it up.

I would feel better about dying if I thought we'd get some decent info from it, but it's just as likely that everyone on my wagon is Town. There may be a scum or two in there, but once I die and another Townie dies with me, there will be no way of knowing which is which. On the other hand, if I am telling the truth (Which you CAN confirm) my role would be a big help to Town. So, instead, you'll be arguing all game about whether the people who pushed for my lynch (or just sat back and let it happen) are scum or not when it was pointless to have me AND another Townie die for nothing.

Frankly, I'm not that convinced about Niempie - my vote on him was mostly to help the Town save 2 Townies. Me and the claimed cop are still the ones on the chopping block so that did no good. I may as well vote for the person I'm more sure is mafia. The more he talks, the more I think it was the SK that took him down and he lucked out getting revived as mafia.

Unvote; Vote: The Fonz

[Setael]

Ok I re-read and did a pbpa of Niempie. I don't want a no lynch, but I didn't want to vote for a Townie.

Post 63 –

The reviving thing souns very interesting.
I agree that we shouldn't be to fixed about who we will revive. And I also think that the reviving of a dead player has to be early in the game. as said by some other players, like day two or day three.

*Reiterating what has already been said. Very safe if he's scum.

Post 104

vote: Niempie

So obviously scum it's painful.

*Niempie never responded to this. Big scumtell.

Post 211 – the fonz

With that in mind, Vote: Nanook. Niempie looks fairly genuine, Albert doesn't look any scummier than he normally does, Nanook looks like he's just kind of agreeing with everything Niempie says thus far.

*This coincides with my feeling that The Fonz is scum. What has Niempie done to look genuine? Was it when he provided hollow, nothing content or when he didn't respond to inHim's accusation?

Post 214 Niempie –

I am not saying that we should revive Yos. I am not even voting to revive Yos. I think that we should wait at least until day two before we decide who we should revive or not.

*If Niempie is scum, he knows Yos will eventually come up scum, and wouldn't want to have strongly supported the revive

Post 346 –

I agree, at this moment I don't think we should lynch someone who could be telling the truth and have a power role.

*Seems to be trying to look pro-town without actually doing anything or accusing anyone

Post 398 Niempie

I still think that at this point we shouldn't continue to ask RafK to explain what he knows about Yos. I do think that we should keep in mind the possibility that he is lying to us.

But this is only day one, so we don't have that much info to go on right now. And I don't think that we should decide on day two or three who we will revive. And based on hopefully other info we really can make a good decision on who to revive.

*Repeating what everyone else thinks as far as not rolefishing Rafk. Then tells us he might be lying to us. Scum would, of course, be very motivated to get us to not trust Rafk.

Niempie – post 610

I see that we have revived The Fonz. At least we know have some knowledge of the roles. I am happy that we didn't revive the first day, because then we would have revived a Mafia member.

I agree that at this moment Albert does seem very scummy to me. In my opinion a quick lynch as happend yesterday is not good for town, but it is good for scum.

Oh, before I forget: I am not an anti-town role.

This looks especially scummy if The Fonz is mafia, but is scummy regardless. States reviving The Fonz gives us knowledge of the roles... how so exactly? Niempie is subtly trying to infer that reviving The Fonz assures us he's Town, when it doesn't.

Also, why not just say "I am pro-Town?" This is brought up later and he says:
Post 686

There is no particular reason for the wording I used. I think I have seen it used before in this tread.

Except, no it wasn't. Seems to be grasping.

I am also tempted to vote for Albert right now, but will await the prommised hieroglyphs before I decide if I will vote for him or not.
But I do think that Albert was out of line for voting for DG, even if he thought that it was the right decision at that time. I don't think that it is very pro-town do to this without hinting to the other players about what you are going to do. (Lynching another player by just voting for them).

Playing it very safe with the Albert lynch. Doesn't say anything that can be used against him whether Albert comes up Town or mafia. States obvious generalities that everyone already believes about Albert's play- also scummy.

Post 744 – Niempie

I was surprised to see that it is already day 4. I think that the persons that ended the day AND the night so early without the town knowing what they were about to do, is bad for town. I know that they hinted towards their abilities, but as can be seen, (almost?) no-one really had an idea what the abilities were.
Albert had to pay for this, because he was lynched, and I think that Van Damien should have know how we would react. You still can end a night earlier, but wait a bit longer than the night was now.

I still think this is scummy - even moreso than MoS's reaction to the shortened night. Scum would be very motivated to have that night last a bit longer.

Post 745 – VanDamien responds

Hinted? Whether or not people are actually bothering to read what I wrote, I certainly did more than hint at it.

As to that last sentance: Are you sure? And even if I could - why would I? Should I have gambled on getting a cop investigation in before a kill?

Post 746 – Thoth responds

It definitively is beneficial for the town to skip a night. It saves us 2 kills. That should be better than maybe getting a good investigation in.

Of course what Albert did hurt the town in an extreme way. He basically cost us 2 days, one where he ended the day killing a townie and then the one where he got lynched himself for it as was likely to happen. I hope I won't be on his side in a game soon.

Post 758 –

It is beneficial for the town that we skipped a night in this game, because there were no kills. But I think that if Van Damien was a bit clearer with his hint, the town power roles could have send in a choice before mafia did, because mafia usually need more time to send in a choice.
And I think that because the night started in a weekend, when most people are less online, that people who did notice Van Damien hint about his power, would have missed the nightfall completely, because of the time it happened.

*Niempie posts more content about the shortened night than he's posted the entire thread. I think it's likely he was unable to use his NK.

Post 799 –

I also think that Sacred is acting scummy by asking why someone voted for someone. If you want to know the reason, look it up in the post where they voted.
Most of the time the reason is in that post.

Vote: Sacred

I will be leaving for my holiday on Friday and won't have internet access until Monday, September 10th. I have asked the mod for a temp replacement....

*Substance-less vote on Sacred. I don't care that much that he left the vote on during the holiday, since he seemed to be thinking he'd have a temp replacement. However, his sole reason for voting being "Sacred is acting scummy by asking why someone voted for someone" is hardly a strong enough case to throw down his first real vote of the game. Since he's hardly been throwing them around, I would think his first would be more well thought-out rather than just jumping on a wagon like he did.

Zindaras pointed this out as well:
Post 800

Hey, Niempie, do you realise that that's the first vote that you've made in this entire game?

To be honest, this 'wagon is laughable. Each of you is ignoring Mossy's vote on Nightson, yet decides that Sacred's warrants a vote.

Vote: Niempie

I will take a more in-depth look at some of the players later on.

Post 879 Sacred lays out a Niempie analysis, every point of which could be a possible scum tell.

7. Niempie
- almost 0 contribution
- one good comment (post 192)
- inactive
- just reiterations of stuff already said or obvious things
- waits for the hieroglyphs before voting for Albert
- thinks the day- and night-enders are bad for the town, reproaches to VanDamien that he should've waited for longer before ending night

All in all, after the re-read I feel pretty confident that Niempie is scum, and though I also think The Fonz is scum, in light of a possible no lynch, I'm going to

vote: Niempie

[Setael]

2 things.
1) That should've been

Unvote; vote: Niempie

I counted up the votes and unless I'm mistaken, there were already 4 on him so I guess mine wasn't needed as much as I thought.
2) Niempie, it's 3 hours to deadline. If you want to claim, now would be a good time.

[Setael]

Thanks for verifying my flavor, Nightson. I'm hoping Rafk or Kilroy investigated me and can confirm my claim.

I can see where Zindaras is coming from. Nightson's statement in Twilight that he supports a lynch of either me or Kilroy is weird. His vote was on Niempie as well, so why would he express frustration at the lynch? I also agree that the mafia wouldn't have expected Nightson to be protected by the doc last night, so if they wanted to kill him, they'd have felt safe doing so. I can see Nightson's burglar role being a Scum role and if Zindaras hadn't brought it up, Nightson could've been assumed Town the whole game and actually turned up scum. However, I still wouldn't support a lynch of him at this point because he provides the Town with information such as he did with confirming my flavor.

Question: Do we think Sacred was vig'd by Blight? Or killed by the SK? Normally, if a vigilante makes a night kill but is himself NK'd by mafia does the vigilante's kill still go through? Also, does an SK ever know the mafia's identities, or are they always working solo?

Another question: All I know of Niempie's role is what's on the wiki about cult roles. If the cult leader dies, does the whole thing fall apart? Or are there likely still recruits active or other cults members? I don't have any experience with how that would work...

I need to reread now that Sacred's come up mafia.

[Setael]

Was the Fonz on your lynch list before, kilroy? What made you decide to investigate him?

[Setael]

Are you stupid?

I know you get a kick out of antagonizing people, but there's really no need to be such a jerk.

[Setael]

MGM: Can we please get a prod on Rafk?

[Setael]

So... if no one comes out and tells us they were recruited by the cult... what does that mean? We don't have any way of knowing if cult members are Town, Scum or on their own team, right?

[Setael]

Obviously I don't really understand how a "cult" works here. How about instead of being a jerk, you enlighten me?

[Setael]

Heiroglyphs are killing this game. I'll keep working at them, but I'm not making much progress. In the meantime, why the full stop to discussion of any kind?

[Setael]

I was trying to match up symbols for Sobek and Ay (Blight and Sacred's character names). None of the symbols I've found for their names match anything in the hieroglyphs exactly. I got frustrated and gave up because it seems like none of the sites I check are uniform.

[Setael]

How many votes does TSS have? I am not opposed to voting him, but I'm going to reread him first.

Also, I have a question re: kilroy. How long are we thinking to leave him alive assuming he's the cop? Up until nearly lylo? I can see that, so that he is able to make as many investigations as possible. Hopefully something will happen to confirm him - like he hits a scum. If not, I think we have to lynch him before lylo to confirm all the people he's investigated. Also, I think kilroy should create a code with the name he has already turned in that he will find out about tonight. That would prevent him from (if he is scum after all) changing it depending upon who is NK'd. Any thoughts?

[Setael]

No. We are not lynching Kilroy any time soon.

No, what? Did I advocate lynching kilroy soon? My question is: If nothing happens to confirm him, should we lynch him before lylo in order to confirm those he has investigated?

[Setael]

And my answer was, "No." How hard was that?

Well, you actually did make it harder than simply "No" by saying "We're not lynching kilroy anytime soon". That's pretty vague. If we get down to near lylo and nothing has happened to clear him and half the people are alive are those he has claimed to investigate, it would make sense to lynch him to find out if all those he claims to have investigated are really Town or not.

I'll drop this until later when it actually becomes important, since MoS refuses to understand my point. Hopefully it will become a null point anyway if kilroy is actually able to confirm himself through investigating a scum.

[Setael]

There have been 5 nights, 3 of which the cult would've been able to recruit unless I'm mistaken. So there are likely at least 3 living cult members which haven't fessed up which means they're probably anti-town. I suppose there is a possibility that when the cult leader dies it just dissolves, but I don't know enough about cults so for now I'm assuming 3 of the living players are cult members. 2 mafia have been NK'd and none lynched by us. Blight may have vigged Sacred, but someone else killed Yos. Possibly an SK who doesn't know mafia's identities, or maybe another town power role that can kill. There are likely at least 2 more mafia, possibly more. Let's assume 2 since the existence of a cult probably means a smaller mafia group. So that's a total of at least 5 anti-town roles. They're not working together, but they will soon be able to dominate the town, especially if we mislynch today.

If TSS is a townie, and his wagon is being driven by scum we have a big problem. I need to reread.

[Setael]

You guys' avatars are too similar. I thought MoS made every one of those posts until I looked closer.

[Setael]

Ok I reread TSS and while TSS actually looks very Town throughout the game (he hasn't posted a lot but what he does post has a pro-Town feel), it reminded me of all the reasons I thought MoS was scum yesterday. I think the fact that he's in almost all my games made me forget that I think he's scum in this one.

As I said I did not accuse you of anything then, but I am now. Vote:RafK, for making unsupportable assertions and then painting any discussion as a fishing expedition instead of actually answering questions.

TSS's vote on Rafk here is very unlikely to be made by scum. Scum would know Rafk really is a power role, which would eventually be proven, and they would not push at him the way TSS did. The entire back and forth between TSS and Rafk looks like TSS is Town that doesn't know what to make of Rafk's hints about his role. I really think scum would not have pushed at him like TSS did.

MOS, we don't gain information. Our profit is in restoration of the balance between scum and town. The nightkills push that balance in favor of scum, and lynching pushes it back in favor of town. Albert gave it a nudge in the wrong direction and Van Damien gave it a corrective nudge. If it helps, like RafK said, visualize it as if it's just a long day 3 with a dayvig in the middle. This shouldn't be blamed for the activity levels.

I don't know why I'm bothering to explain this to you, since you're so clearly scum.

This reminded me about how scummy I thought MoS' reaction to the shortened night was. TSS also highlighted that MoS being so upset about this did not look Town at all. TSS's reaction about the shortened night here on the other hand, is very town.

MoS' main reason for trying to make us all think TSS is scum is that TSS said a Yosarian revival would be a good idea. Assuming TSS is town, he'd have no way of knowing Yos was scum since it had not been revealed at that point. It makes sense that TSS would want to revive an early NK since it would be so unlikely to be scum, and would also give the Town the opportunity of finding out alignment upon death earlier in the game. MoS seems to be trying to make a lot more out of this than is there. I don't know if MoS and kilroy are scum together, but I'm pretty confident MoS is scum.

Unvote; vote: MoS

[Setael]

MoS, can you explain your change of heart on kilroy? You were one of the main people pushing his lynch yesterday and you never gave a real reason for changing your mind.

Unvote, Vote: Kilroy

He's just stalling and has made a horrible claim. Claimed to be different from a real cop in order to avoid a counterclaim, nothing he has said adds up. With Nanook being so inactive he needed to be replaced, I doubt he was around to send a choice during the extra-short night.

Unvote, Vote: Kilroy

Forgot about the "Papyrus" part. That's clearly bullshit.

Then today all of a sudden you freak out when I ask if we eventually need to lynch him in order to confirm all his investigations and now you're hard core anti his lynch. What gives?

[Setael]

kilroy, what are your reasons for voting TSS? Did you read my post 1225? If you think my reasons for thinking TSS is Town are off, please tell us why.

[Setael]

Actually MoS, I believe it is you who are diverting attention away from my case on you and trying to get the focus back to TSS. I disagree with every point you have made about TSS. I do not think his interaction with Rafk was scummy. As I said, I think quite the opposite since if he was scum he would know Rafk's power role would eventually be confirmed and it would be to his disadvantage to have negative history with Rafk. You say you think he's scum because he suspects kilroy. I've got news for you - I suspect kilroy as well. His last investigation he didn't even attempt to find scum for us, all he did was confirm a townie that very few were suspecting. Every person he has investigated are the people scum would choose to say they investigated if they were fake claiming cop. I'm not advocating a kilroy lynch, but I think it's fishy that you trust him so implicitly now and freak out when it's even mentioned that we may eventually have to lynch him in order to confirm the townies he says he's investigated. You were one of the main supporters of a kilroy lynch yesterday, so it's a bit counterintuitive of you to try to paint kilroy suspicion as scummy today.

Your case on TSS looks like scum trying to take down a townie, and in that case your frustration at my unwillingness to blindly follow you and vote TSS is understandable.

[Setael]

I did forget to address Fonz's post. I get scum vibes from Fonz every time he posts, and until kilroy is proven to be telling the truth I don't think he's Town.

I'm very uncomfortable with Setael's last post. For starters, if we assumed TSS was scum, RafK not being part of the same scumgroup is not conclusive proof that TSS knew him to be telling the truth. TSS' post to me looked like hardcore rolefishing to me.

It didn't look like rolefishing to me. It looks like a Townie who is confused because all Rafk was doing was dropping very vague hints. I would have reacted the same as TSS.

Secondly, do you really not think it's possible there were people on the Yos wagon for scummy reasons? Just because it's plausible that a pro-town player could support a Yos revival does not mean his scumbuddies wouldn't also be doing so, using precisely that as cover. I'm pretty certain that there was at least one scumbuddy in the revive Yos camp, and TSS strikes me as the most likely.

You could be right, but you also could be wrong. This whole post sounded just like MoS's case on TSS - a push to take down a Townie. I just don't buy it.

[Setael]

I have explained why. Several times. Go back and read my last few posts if you missed it. There are only a few active players here and I'm feeling pinned in a corner as if TSS and I are the only townies. Evidently we're till on hold until replacements are found. I feel like I'm just arguing with scum and it's pointless until we have a full player base.

[Setael]

At least get the gender right, ass hole.

[Setael]

you're the loudest and most annoying person here

Oh, the irony!

[Setael]

YAY! Welcome everyone

[Setael]

I for one am waiting to see what the replacements have to say.

[Setael]

@Dusk: I think it would be more helpful for you to read MoS and TSS in isolation rather than kilroy. None of us will be willing to lynch kilroy today.

[Setael]

How's it coming, replacements? Hopefully you'll be caught up soon so we can get this game moving again. By killing off MoS.

[Setael]

Well, I have nothing to say other than Kilroy is a proven liar who has acted in ways proven to be against the interests of the town. But I've said that already numerous times, and MOS insists I must be scum because MOS and Kilroy are probably scum buddies.

Fixed.

[Setael]

Pssst! Zindie! You should be voting for MoS.

[Setael]

Perfect. Let's lynch MoS.

[Setael]

mod: can we get a prod on White? He hasn't posted since replacing in.

[Setael]

I agree. It looks like he hasn't read the game and is making assumptions based on very little. Only scum can afford to do this, since they know everyone's alignment already.

unvote; vote: The Jester

[Setael]

Yay! Welcome DGB! And nice job in Dantes in Fresno - you had me so hosed.

[Setael]

I interpreted Jester's post as him claiming to be Tutankhamun and bulletproof. Jester, please clarify - were you talking about my claim, or were you claiming?

mod: can we get a VC please?

[Setael]

Ah I see.... that makes this statement make more sense:

Also, Setael didn't claim bulletproof. Setael claimed Super Saint. Nice slip, scum.

I was confused, and now it makes sense. He replaced inHim who I was suspicious of earlier in the game. I'm assuming bulletproof means can't be NK'd but has to be lynched. (Correct me if I'm wrong). This is the first I've heard of that role, but it's also the first I've heard of my role so I wouldn't actually be surprised if he's telling the truth. I can also see that as a good mafia fake claim though since it would explain him never being NK'd even after claiming a power role. It's actually very similar to my role (both can't be/not likely to be NK'd). Does it make sense to have a bomb and a bulletproof townie in the same game?

[Setael]

Unvote; vote: MoS

[Setael]

MoS has been my top suspect all game. If he's going to derail the Jester lynch, I'm putting my vote back on him.

[Setael]

Considering we now know there was a cult AND a mafia (who definitely has a roleblocker), 3 limited investigative roles is believable. Nightson's only confirms flavor, Rafk's only confirms true/false statements, and kilroy's is limited as well.

[Setael]

I am not, nor have I ever been, a member of any cult or scumgroup, nor am I a serial killer. I am pro-Town in every sense of the word.

This does us no good if Rafk keeps getting blocked, but maybe we'll luck out and lynch the mafia RB today.

[Setael]

I am protown, and I am not and have never been any of the following roles during the course of this game: cultist, cult leader, mafia, werewolf, serial killer, psychopath, survivor, lyncher, jester, or any other sort of role that is NOT 100% protown in its objectives.

[Setael]

I see no reason a pro-town vig would kill Fonz at the time he died. The reason he was revived is because he was generally believed to be pro-town. I can, however, see an SK killing Fonz at the time he died.

Also, If TSS is a vig, there is no SK in the game, because all NKs are accounted for. I think it unlikely there isn't an SK in this game considering how many town power roles have been revealed (including mine which is evidently uncommon). Two town vigs and no SK doesn't compute.

unvote, vote: TSS

[Setael]

Yes but TSS if we leave you alive, scum still gets TWO kills every night. And that is not good for the town any way you slice it.

[Setael]

I agree with Fonz. If TSS was a Town vig who thought Fonz was scummy enough to vig him, he'd have made SOME kind of resistance to the revival - at least put up another candidate as an alternate.

[Setael]

I agree. A townie wouldn't even think to say it. He's the SK. Someone wake me once we've lynched him.

[Setael]

mod: Can we get a prod of DG please?

[Setael]

How are you an "undisputed vig"?

16. Blight (replacing rolandofthewhite) - Sobek, vigilante -Night 5

[Setael]

I'm not surprised. The nights around here have been game-killingly long since I replaced in.

[Setael]

Isn't peanutbutter the backup mod? Night choices are being sent to him, right?

[Setael]

Just glad to hear you're not dead. Thanks for the update.

[Setael]

I'm surprised by a MoS NK. I thought he was scum.

Results would be nice.

[Setael]

That said, I was not roleblocked. I got a Not Mafia result on MoS.

Wait... isn't that the result you gave yesterday?

I'm frustrated Dusk investigated me since it gives me no info but I guess it's helpful since I'm guaranteed a free ride to end game unless we have suicidal scum.

[Setael]

@kilroy - nevermind, for some reason I was thinking you cleared MoS when you cleared Fonz.

DGB, even if you don't believe Jester, shouldn't he be up there under claimed? I think I need to reread White/YB/DGB.

[Setael]

Uh huh... but why would you put Jester in a separate category from kilroy and dusk who are also unconfirmed? If Jester really is bulletproof, obviously the mafia will be highly motivated to get him lynched.

Oh, and bombs didn't exist in ancient Egypt either. Did you doubt my claim before dusk investigated me?

[Setael]

My point, DGB is that Dusk and kilroy have both claimed but just because they are being generally believed doesn't make them confirmed. Yet you give them a pass while listing Jester with the unclaimed.

Besides the possibilities you gave, there's also a chance Jester didn't get NK'd last night because he CAN'T get NKd. And for that very reason, mafia would count on convincing us to lynch him today. I do think it's odd that there'd be a bomb AND a bulletproof player in the same game but, oddly, you haven't brought that up at all.

There are at least 2 scum left, both of which I think are likely among

Zindaras
Thoth
VanDamien
DrippingGoofball

One of them is probably a godfather/investigation proof, so I'd add Fonz to the list for the second scum.

Though I'm dreading it, I can see that I need to reread. I'm likely to be here for lylo unless one of the scum wants to sacrifice themselves in order to get rid of me, so I'll reread when I get a chance.

[Setael]

I like reading that last sentence in a shakey "crying because you hurt my feelings" voice.

[Setael]

I also didn't realize there's an innocent investigation on Jester. Who got it and when?

[Setael]

There could be any kind of mechanic - it could be someone who due to their status would never be believed to lie or something so Dusk would get a false read, or they could be immune to kilroy but not dusk, or both.

I'm leaning toward DGB as scum.

[Setael]

My biggest reason to doubt kilroy's claim at this point is that MoS died last night instead of someone kilroy has an innocent investigation on. MoS wasn't cleared at all. Why would he be the NK target? I guess it's possible the scum are wifoming us into lynching kilroy today, but it seems like if kilroy really is a cop, they'd need to start offing confirmeds in order to have a chance at end game.

[Setael]

First, doing this post made me realize that kilroy cleared Yogurt (DGB) - odd that kilroy didn't bother to remind me of this when I was suspicious of DGB.

I didn't take into account the probable existence of a doc still living, but I don't think the choice of MoS can be explained as scum avoiding someone a doc would likely protect. Even then though, I could see them avoiding killing one of the 2 cops but why not go after Fonz, nightson, van damien, or DGB (Yogurt) who have all been cleared by kilroy? MoS was one of the few players that hadn't been investigated and was unconfirmed. Why would they choose him over someone confirmed?

VERY UNLIKELY TO BE NK'd

The Jester

- claimed bulletproof/not generally being believed and therefore not high candidate for NK; also not going to be NK target if he's telling the truth

Setael

- now confirmed by Dusk, but even before as bomb not going to be NK choice

UNLIKELY TO BE NK'd DUE TO UNCONFIRMED STATUS

Zindaras
Thoth
(MoS) was on this list at the start of last night

LIKELY TO BE NK'd DUE TO CONFIRMED STATUS

Nightson

- claimed flavor cop/generally being believed

The Fonz

- cleared by kilroy

VanDamien

- cleared by kilroy

DrippingGoofball

- cleared by kilroy

DESIRABLE NK's BUT UNLIKELY DUE TO DOC PROTECT

Dusk

(replacing RafK) - claimed truth cop/generally being believed

Kilroy8675309

- claimed cop/generally being believed

The only possibilities I can think of are

A) They thought MoS might be the doc. With the # of unclaimed, unconfirmeds that's a pretty big gamble considering how many confirmeds we have that scum need to weed out before end game. (Also possible that MoS breadcrumbed tracker somewhere that I missed but that scum caught)

B) kilroy is scum. If kilroy is telling the truth, scum would know it and they would likely have taken out The Fonz, Van Damien, DGB or Nightson, all of whom he has cleared and would need to be NKd before end game.

If kilroy is scum, it would make sense that they're not worried about getting rid of those he's cleared since when he comes up scum they're all no longer cleared.

C) They're wifoming us into killing kilroy which seems unlikely since at this rate they HAVE to get rid of some of the confirmeds or they lose. It's a big risk to kill one of the few unconfirmeds (a player I thought was scum, which makes him even less likely to be the NK since he's one of the few that the scum would see as a possible mislynch)

Can I get some other opinions on this? kilroy ignored it in his last post and the "keep investigating and lynching - the game's in the bag" makes me worry he's scum that's going to coast through to end game. I agree it seems likely that there's only one actual scum left - the roleblocker who now has to kill instead of blocking. There's also a possibility that kilroy is the mafia roleblocker and since he knows there's only one scum left, he knew he needed to claim results along with the other cops.

Also, how does the existence of possible cult members affect end game? With the leader dead, if cult members survive to the end do they win over town? i.e. Does anyone know if we have to lynch the mafia AND cult before we win?

[Setael]

I believe I'm the only one that Dusk cleared who is still alive, DGB. As far as I remember, Rafk was blocked every night since he claimed until last night.

So are you saying that the players who are likely to be cultists are less likely to be NK'd? Does the mafia not have to get rid of the cult to win?

[Setael]

I would expect cult members to downplay the cult, and concentrate on the mafia.

And because that's what would be expected, if you're cult, you'd do the opposite like you are doing.

After that last post, I think DGB's our best bet for a cult member.

[Setael]

that first statement in my post was meant to be a quote of you btw.

call WIFOM if you want, but if I was cult I'd know, like you do, that it'd be expected of the cult to downplay it. So I think I'd do the opposite, like you're doing. I guess we'll find out if WIFOM works or not when we find out if you're cult or not

[Setael]

So Fonz's way DGB is likely scum, my way she's likely cult. Either way works for me.

vote: DGB

[Setael]

If you believe Fonz cleared me, then you know "Fonz's way" is wrong, so your argument is rubbish.

Check your facts. Kilroy is the one who said he has an innocent on you. So I do NOT believe Fonz is the one that cleared you, and your argument is therefore invalid.

Why wasn't RafK/Dusk not blocked last night?

We went over this. Clearly there is only one mafia last night who, if they choose to role block, cannot kill. So they forfeited their RB ability in order to make a NK. Did you really miss that? Why aren't you paying attention?

re: the other things you said about Dusk: yesterday there was no suspicion on me. Still a good idea to clear a bomb to find out if they're telling the truth, wouldn't you say?

One hesitation at this point is if DGB is scum it means kilroy was lying and is also scum (unless he's insane or something like that). And if they're scum together, I doubt she'd make that slip thinking it was fonz and not kilroy. Better not go into that WIFOM territory though or DGB's pants will light on fire.

[Setael]

I think Dusk has been cultified.

[Setael]

Well, first of all it does make sense that the power roles would be recruited as soon as they were outed (less likely to be lynched by the town), and Rafk was outed long before the recruiter was lynched.

Also, this quote looked like you were trying to draw suspicion away from DGB and onto the inactives.

Well i feel like the scum are sitting back to watch the banter ensue, hoping the town turns on itself.

Wasn't Thoth a suspect at one point.

I wouldn't be surprised if you and DGB are both in the cult. It's a long shot, but possible. DGB was cleared by Rafk before the recruiter was killed, so he'd be a likely recruit as well.

[Setael]

Yeah, I misspoke. Replace Rafk with kilroy so it reads "DGB was cleared by kilroy before the recruiter was killed, so he'd be a likely recruit as well."

I agree that DGB has a point. The fact that I was the first one to make the "I'm not scum" statement is not good enough reason to investigate me. I was pretty much the least helpful investigation, which does indicate Dusk was avoiding having to give an investigation on certain people - likely cult buddies. If that's the case, she really wouldn't have had many options between all the people who have already been investigated and her cult buddies that she wouldn't want to give an innocent on in case they come up cult and out her.

[Setael]

Ok, I had to look back to realize this, but Niempie was lynched D4 - sept 11. Kilroy claimed his investigations Aug. 26, during D4. So Niempie's recruitments were done before kilroy claimed. Rafk was blocked the whole time, so he didn't have any cleareds for Niempie to choose from either. Nightson had given some flavor info but nothing that officially cleared anyone.

So I guess all that is null and void.

Here's a concise list of kilroy's investigations (kilroy correct me if this is wrong)

N1: VanDamien (INNOCENT); Yos (SCUM).
N2:
N3: Rafk/Dusk (INNOCENT) and YogurtBandit/DGB (INNOCENT)
N4:
N5: Fonz and MoS

Setael: who would have been better investigation choices and why? I'm asking you because you know the game more intimately than I do, since I'm a relatively recent replacement.

Well, I have to admit that from my POV the choice she made is especially unhelpful since I know my alignment. So I'm biased. However, as I said earlier, I can see wanting to confirm a player whose claim protects them from NKs. You're saying a bomb can confirm herself - we went over this earlier. No one was willing to hammer me to test the claim and scum, knowing I was telling the truth, would never NK me unless they were sick of the game and wanted to suicide. I was an odd investigation choice because I don't think this argument would have been brought back up, I was not under anyone's suspicion (so it's odd Dusk says I was at the center of yesterday. I wasn't ever voted or even accused. Jester would be the #1 obvious choice and kilroy or MoS were also much more in the center of suspicion than I was).

Jester would have been a helpful investigation since he also won't be NK'd by virtue of his claim. The only way we have to test his claim is either investigation or lynching him. If he is telling the truth, he's safe from NKs through to end game, so I'd think a cop would be motivated to find out his alignment. (Same reasoning for investigating me except for the fact that he received MUCH more negative attention yesterday and might actually risk being lynched so he should've been investigated over me).

kilroy would have been a VERY helpful investigation since it would confirm all those he has cleared without having to kill him to do so. The only other options were Zindaras, Thoth, and (MoS) since no one is doubting Nightson's claim at all and the rest of the players have been cleared by kilroy.

So the list of people Dusk opted to not investigate (and therefore the list of most likely cult if Dusk is cult) are:

Jester
kilroy
Zindaras
Thoth

I think the oddest is that she didn't investigate Jester. She was active yesterday and saw the discussion about him. To use the excuse that I was more the center of focus yesterday (completely false) and that I was the first to make a full complete statement of innocence (dumb reason) don't really pan out.

[Setael]

Dusk not clearing Jester is, obviously, not protecting Jester.

But if they're both cult, it is protecting Dusk from being discovered in the (fairly likely) event that Jester was lynched today. If she cleared him as innocent and then he came up cult, she's outed.

In case we're wrong, I hate to lynch Dusk and lose potential investigations. Jester's more dispensable. Not only is it odd that there'd be a bulletproof AND a bomb in the same game, the fact that he was not investigated last night only makes sense if he's either scum or cult.

inHim, who Jester replaced, laid pretty low all game. I guess I could see him being recruited one of the early nights. I could also see him being scum.

unvote, vote: Jester

Nightson claimed on June 24, D1. He was a likely N1 recruit. I would also be willing to lynch him based on likely cultmembership.

[Setael]

I would absolutely have gone after you today if not for the investigation.

Maybe you should rethink your scum hunting method then, eh? Why would you have gone after me? Because I didn't know TSS' alignment?

Also, do you think Dusk knew you'd go after me today? She's implying that I was central to suspicions yesterday, not that I would've been central today.

[Setael]

No, actually. I would have been much more careful if I was scum and knew the alignment of TSS, you and MoS. Often when someone is THAT off in who they're defending/accusing it's because they don't know anyone's alignment but their own. So no, I don't think that makes me look bad.

[Setael]

I do not believe Rafk was scum in the least little bit, and therefore don't believe Dusk is scum. I do think she is likely cult. Jester could be either. Dusk is readily willing to lynch Jester today, which makes him even more ideal for an investigation last night. She would've lynched him yesterday where she wouldn't have lynched me, so he should've been her choice. He's likely cult with her. In fact I was thinking about it, and Rafk's play changed considerably and he became much more quiet and reserved after that first night after he claimed. I assumed he was just busy, but it's very possible he had been recruited and from then on didn't want to reveal too much to the town.

I'd vote either Dusk or Jester.

[Setael]

If we lynch Jester, and Jester is cult... well I am not sure why Dusk would have chosen to give results clearing Setael instead of Jester.

Really? We've gone over this so this statement surprises me. If Jester is cult, Dusk couldn't confirm his innocence because there's a good chance he'll be lynched, come up cult and prove Dusk was lying when she confirmed Jester. Dusk is the much more "confirmed/generally being trusted" player so the cult would protect her identity before Jester's in a heartbeat, if that's the case.

If we lynch Jester, and Jester is scum, that would mean that Dusk did not act the way she did because both Dusk and Jester are culted. If Dusk chose to clear Setael instead of Jester, it's probably because both Dusk and Setael have been culted.

If we lynch Jester, and Jester is cult... well I am not sure why Dusk would have chosen to give results clearing Setael instead of Jester.

If we lynch Jester, and Jester is town... well I am not sure why Dusk would have chosen to give results clearing Setael instead of Jester.

So I think the most likely scenario is:

Jester=scum
Dusk=cult
Setael=cult

Because your conclusions are incorrect, it makes me wonder if the logic we're using to figure out who's cult is completely off. The one thing I still agree with is those with claimed power roles would be more likely recruits. I didn't claim until the day Niempie died, so I'll still go with that logic at least.

Why was RafK/Dusk roleblocked instead of Kilroy, who has the most useful results? Who has a theory?

Couple of possibilities. The obvious of course being the possibility that kilroy is lying scum. I keep flipping back and forth about this, but it comes down to the fact that I don't think kilroy had any reason to bus TSS so hard if they were scum buddies, and so I don't think kilroy is mafia.

Another possibility is this: kilroy has been under suspicion the entire game (even after he claimed) and many players didn't believe his claim. Rafk on the other hand was being fully trusted and everyone had made the "I'm protown" statement so Rafk was made a fullblown cop really early and has been trusted since. If both Rafk/Dusk and kilroy are telling the truth about their roles, the RB had more motivation to block Rafk than kilroy because all game (up to now) there's been a much higher chance that kilroy will be lynched by the town than Rafk/Dusk.

We don't know who the roleblocker is, do we?

Very likely it's the last mafia player left, mostly because it would explain why no one was blocked last night.

[Setael]

If we lynch Jester, and Jester is cult... well I am not sure why Dusk would have chosen to give results clearing Setael instead of Jester.

Really? We've gone over this so this statement surprises me. If Jester is cult, Dusk couldn't confirm his innocence because there's a good chance he'll be lynched, come up cult and prove Dusk was lying when she confirmed Jester. Dusk is the much more "confirmed/generally being trusted" player so the cult would protect her identity before Jester's in a heartbeat, if that's the case.

Ah... I knew I was missing something. Alright. I was wrong about you being a likely cult recruit.

This is so odd to me. How does my statement there somehow prove that I'm not cult? It gives a good reason to think Jester and Dusk are both cult, but gives no reason to decide I'm not cult. There's something very off about DGB.

I'd like everyone to remember that there are 64 pages of this game. keep in mind I replaced in. I have no intention of reading the entire thread. I would go through the entire thread to review one aspect. For instance I might review the game to understand Van Damien's buddying with Silent Killer, hypothetically speaking. So a lot of these issues about why I chose to investigate who I did was based off of about two pages of what was going on then and not who was the most suspicious.

Why did you replace in if you had no intention to read the thread? Do you usually read threads when you replace into long games, or is this the norm? The only reason I can think of for someone to not bother reading the thread is if they already know everyone's alignment. I don't think that's likely since that would mean Rafk was scum. In this case I guess you're just lazy. Or maybe Rafk fooled us all.

This is full of speculation. Since I'm not cult I have no qualms about lynching the most suspicious player right now, Jester, period. That's all there is to it. that explanation is much more simple than trying to prove my innocence later if I were cult member by sacrificing a less important cult member.

You're avoiding addressing the main point which is the most logical investigation choice for you last night was Jester. You just said he is "the most suspicious player right now". Well, he hasn't done much at all today so that's based on yesterday's play, right? If you thought he was the most suspicious, WHY DID YOU NOT INVESTIGATE HIM? The only reason I can think of for you not to do so is if you 2 are cult together, and you can't risk reporting an innocent on him because when he came up cult your cover is blown.

[Setael]

ok then DGB, I don't see how that statement of mine gives you any reason to think I was/am not a likely cult recruit.

Now please explain without hiding behind semantics.

[Setael]

One thing's for sure, she hasn't bothered to read the thread, nor does she plan to.

If Dusk isn't cult (Rafk as mafia still seems SO unlikely to me) but if she's not cult, I'd like to punch her in the face for being so anti-town.

[Setael]

Setael, you do realize your only real reason for suspecting me is you believe the cult should have wanted to recruit me.

Incorrect. My #1 reason is the logical choice for you to investigate last night was Jester. You have yet to address this or give any reason why you chose not to when if you think he's scum now you must have thought so yesterday, whereas you never thought I was scum.

Nightson, and Kilroy both claimed flavor investigation abilities. By the same reasoning shouldn't they have recruited either Kilroy or Nightson?

Incorrect. The cult never had another chance to recruit after Kilroy claimed. I have stated that Nightson was also a likely cult recruit for the same reason you were.

You would know these things if you bothered to read the thread.

[Setael]

I'd rather lynch Jester. I'd be willing to lynch Dusk if that's the way the wagon goes, but my certainty about Dusk relies heavily on them both being cult, and Jester is much more expendable.

My vote stays on Jester.

[Setael]

kilroy, what night did you get an innocent on Rafk/Dusk?

Do you think you'd get a guilty on someone who is cult?

[Setael]

Makes sense. Dusk is the only one who can find cult. Has everyone made the "I'm not nor have I ever been mafia or cult in this game" statement? Even if Dusk has been recruited, her results tomorrow will be helpful.

[Setael]

I have never heard of cult being unable to recruit power roles - where have you seen that?

[Setael]

But if Dusk himself is cult... which is quite likely...

We'd still get an investigation result tomorrow and if we then lynch Dusk, we have more info.

[Setael]

Zindaras: I think Dusk is Scum. If Dusk is not Scum, Dusk's death tells us who isn't scum. This, in turn, helps us deduce who is Scum.

kilroy, you said you got an innocent on Rafk/Dusk. So... how is it you now think she's scum?

[Setael]

I agree Tutankhaman and Ay are not likely to be mafia together, but I'm not sure I believe you're Tutankhaman. Gold and jewelry could go with any number of other Egypt figures who could be mafia. Maybe you had a safe claim. Or maybe you got lucky and claimed someone not in the game.

[Setael]

Several good points. I've already claimed and I'm also a god.

Jester's the lynch of the day.

Also, there have been no NAME counterclaims in the game.

[Setael]

I'm not buying this because not everyone was lurking. Some of us have been doing meaningful scum/cult hunting. This game is moving a lot faster than it does when it goes to night and nothing happens for over a month.

I think you're scum or cult who doesn't think he can wiggle out of a lynch. If you really were town I don't think you'd have this "kill me to keep the game moving" attitude at all, especially when the game's not as slow as you're trying to make us think.

[Setael]

Not that you care, but I lost all respect for you when you self voted.

This applies whether you are town, cult, or scum.

I don't understand why someone would replace into a game and then act this way. If you had been here since the beginning, I could MAYBE understand you getting frustrated and wanting out. As it is, it makes no sense to me.

[Setael]

You should make it too then, fonz, since that last post wouldn't really count.

I'm not scum or cult and have not had any anti-town role at any point in this game, nor do I have one now. I am pro-town in every sense it can be imagined.

[Setael]

Fonz and Thoth were both revived. One by the town, one by an unknown source. Trying to remember which was which.

Fonz, were you revived by the town or another method?

I'd need to look back for the when as well. Now that I think about it, both revived players were likely cult recruits (especially the one revived by the town) since the town chose to revive them and were generally in agreement that they were protown. They were therefore nearly as unlikely to be lynched as a claimed power role.

[Setael]

I found my answer.

1. Thoth - revived - Night 3
14. The Fonz - revived - Day 3

Fonz was revived by the town, Thoth was revived as someone's night action. No one has claimed that revival and no one has died that had a revival role as far as I can tell. If a townie who is still alive was the one that revived Thoth, we need them to claim it. Otherwise, Thoth was likely revived by scum and is therefore probably scum.

Anyone ever seen a game where cult was able to recruit someone who was dead?

[Setael]

Especially after saying

Oh, please, "I have no incentive to lie". Since when do you have an incentive to tell the truth? You're dead. You've already admitted that you're scum, so now we're just hopping around and discussing some other stuff while you can post your last few words. Yeah, and outed scum does tend to flail around hopelessly in some futile attempt to stop their lynch. Or, in your case, an attempt to be funny.

[Setael]

@DGB: I can be killed by both NK and lynch, but the person who hammers or sends in the NK dies right along with me.

@Jester: Why did you give up?

[Setael]

Because first, a bomb only works against a NK.

Not in this game. Whoever is responsible for my death will commit suicide from shame and grief. By the way, I looked up my pm to check wording and I'm not a god like I was thinking. I'm a king. Ptolemy V. Epiphanes, a child king.

If your claimed role works against a NK, AND it works against a hammer, then you are virtually unkillable by any means.

No I'm not. I'm perfectly killable. I die if I'm NK'd or lynched. The person who is responsible also dies.

Because if such a player is NK'd, their death (especially after the vig is dead) means we have one less scum. Therefore that player WANTS, as a pro-town player, to draw the NK, instead of letting the Mafia blow up a power role, or any other townie that can be NK'd with impunity.

So the fact that you actually made the claim is not a point in your favor.

Trust me, I didn't want to claim. And I didn't until I was -1.

Had you claimed ONLY "I cannot be hammered" then the scum might have tried to NK you, and that would have been immensely useful to the town.

You chose not to do that.

You are telling me I should have lied. Never did it enter my mind to lie. When I was forced into claiming, I claimed fully. I didn't consider anything else.

DP, if you are cult these last two posts are not surprising, since the cult would obviously be HIGHLY motivated to find a way to get me out of the way. If you are not cult you need to realize that there are likely 3 cult members who would be perfectly willing to wagon me and let Jester hammer me.

[Setael]

You could have said that you were not hammerable. But there is no pro-town reason to reveal that you are also un-NK'ble. None. Your purpose in this game is to draw the nightkill, to get us a scum.

What about a vig? Do you think it would've been smart of me to be responsible for the death of two townies if a vig targeted me? The fact that you twist this to make it look like I should have lied and the only result to me lying would've been protown is BS.

There is also hardly any reason to reveal that you are not hammerable. Let a scum hammer you, and die along with you. That's a chance worth taking. If I were you, at -1, I would have said, "bring it on."

These arguments are asinine. The odds were much more likely a townie would hammer me meaning TWO townies dead. Plus, it's helpful to have me alive at endgame - as you've said, mafia doesn't dare kill me so we're guaranteed a townie alive at endgame.

Also, you are not a god, now. You lied about that.

Wrong. I hadn't looked at my pm in months. You get two points though for being so ridiculously predictable.

Sorry about the wall of text here, but I'm not going to let DGB get away with pulling one line out of the wiki and calling my role an "evil pharoah" for it. My pm says I am a "child king" so actually, I'm Ptolemy as a child before he ever did anything bad. Here's the whole wiki entry:

Ptolemy V Epiphanes, Ptolemaios, Epiphanis, reigned 204–181 BCE), son of Ptolemy IV Philopator and Arsinoe III of Egypt, was the 5th ruler of the Ptolemaic dynasty. He became ruler at the age of five, and under a series of regents the kingdom was paralyzed.

Ptolemy Epiphanes was only a small boy when his father, Ptolemy Philopator, died. The two leading favorites of Philopator, Agathocles and Sosibius, fearing that Arsinoe would secure the regency had her murdered before she heard of her husband's death so securing the regency for themselves. In 202 BCE however Tlepolemus, the general in charge of Pelusium put himself at the head of a revolt. Once Epiphanes was in the hands of Tlepolemus he was persuaded to give a sign that the killers of his mother should be killed. According to Bevan the child king's consent was given more from fear than anything else and Agathocles along with several of his supporters being killed by the Alexandrian mob [1].

Antiochus III the Great and Philip V of Macedon made a pact to divide the Ptolemaic possessions overseas. Philip seized several islands and places in Caria and Thrace, whilst the Battle of Panium (198 BCE) definitely transferred Coele-Syria, including Judea, from the Ptolemies to the Seleucids.

Antiochus after this concluded peace, giving his own daughter Cleopatra I to Epiphanes to wife (193–192 BCE). Nevertheless, when war broke out between Antiochus and Rome, Egypt ranged itself with the latter power. Epiphanes in manhood was remarkable as a passionate sportsman; he excelled in athletic exercises and the chase.

Great cruelty and perfidy were displayed in the suppression of the native rebellion, and some accounts represent him as personally tyrannical. In 197 BCE Lycopolis was held by the forces of Ankmachis, (also known as Chaonnophris) the secessionist pharaoh of Upper Egypt, but was forced to withdraw to Thebes. The war between North and South continued until 185 BCE with the arrest of Ankmachis by Ptolemaic General Conanus.

In 183 BCE/184 BCE The rebels in Lower Egypt surrendered on the basis of terms that Epiphanes had given his personal to honour. However, showing himself in the opinion of Bevan treacherous and vindictive he had them put to death in a cruel manner.[2].

The Rosetta Stone was a statement of thanks to the Egyptian priesthood for help during the crisis.

The elder of his two sons, Ptolemy VI Philometor (181–145 BCE), succeeded as an infant under the regency of his mother Cleopatra the Syrian. Her death was followed by a rupture between the Ptolemaic and Seleucid courts, on the old question of Coele-Syria.

I think DGB has outed herself as obvcult with this attack on me. Everything is so skewed - she's not even attempting to consider both sides. It's propaganda. She's clearly not concerned about cult piling on the wagon, probably because one is already on.

I think we're fuzzy enough on who the cult are that if Jester hammers me today, the cult will win this game. So either DGB is a careless townie handing the game to the cult, or she's cult.

[Setael]

I didn't write it out, but I did consider the possibility that you were thinking of the vig's well-being.

If you considered it, why didn't you write it out? I think it's because you don't want to even hint at the alternatives. You just admitted to intentionally writing negative propaganda. Only mafia or cult would do that. If you were protown, you'd want to present all sides and make this a reasonable discussion involving other players rather than railroading everyone with all the negative (however unrealistic) possibilities you can find, without presenting all the facts or possibilities.

BUT - Since you're probably not town, you're not going to NK yourself, and you need to reason to explain your continued night survival. And the reason you made up, is that you are also un-NK'ble. If you've been culted (and Dusk's clearing you isn't in your favor actually), then you'd also want to survive, and claim un-NK'ble. Same if you're an SK, though there doesn't seem to be evidence of one at this time.

I find this interesting. You agreed that one of the reasons to think Jester was likely cult was BECAUSE Dusk didn't investigate him. If she had investigated him and cleared him, when one of them came up cult it would implicate the other one which would not be optimal play. Why have you changed your tune, and all of a sudden it's LIKELY that Dusk did that with me? Why do you now think she'd be motivated to clear a fellow cult member thereby outing her if I come up cult or outing me if she comes up cult? What changed your mind?

We are not as fuzzy as to who the cult members are as you claim. Nightson, Dusk, and perhaps Setael.

Who is "we"? Are you really speaking for everyone there, because I don't recall anyone but you postulating that I'm scum. I believe others (you included not so long ago) would include one or both of the revived players in that list. You are on my list, and may be on several others. A LOT of people are suspicious of Zindaras. So yeah - I'd say you're completely out of line is saying everyone thinks it's me, Dusk and Nightson. Maybe you're assuming everyone will automatically agree with you because you'd like them to, but I think the rest of us are more "fuzzy" on who exactly the cult are than you think.

Keep in mind as well that I didn't claim until after the cult was done recruiting, since the day I claimed is the day Niempie was lynched. So the logic you've been using that power roles were much more likely to be recruited doesn't apply to me - I was unclaimed. For all they knew, they'd be recruiting scum with me. I think I need to reread that day, since I hadn't thought to before now and who was or was not supporting that wagon might give us a hint about who our remaining cultists are.

Looking back, I found a few good quotes for you DGB. Like this one, where I switched my vote to Niempie in order to keep kilroy from dying along with me. I've never been cult, but I imagine if I was cult in that position, I'd have tried to keep the cult leader alive.

MGM: Thanks for the VC. I was under the impression we had until midnight tonight. Did I miss an announcement that this changed? 4.5 hours makes the deadline... today at 5 p.m.? If others are also thinking the deadline is tonight between 11 and midnight like you originally said, they might not check the thread before 5 p.m.

Just in case Kilroy doesn't check the thread in the next 4.5 hours, I'm going to have to vote: Niempie and hope that either someone else adds a vote, or someone removes one from my wagon. It would be epic stupidity for the cop to die along with another Townie (or mafia doing a really good job at steering things to go how they want).

@Fonz: You say you're not happy about staking a claimed cop's life on it, and yet you DO. Why don't you unvote and then re-vote me if you're so sure I'm scum and don't want to risk killing a claimed cop? The only reason I can see that you didn't do that is if you are scum.

Ok I re-read and did a pbpa of Niempie. I don't want a no lynch, but I didn't want to vote for a Townie.

Post 63 –
Niempie wrote:
The reviving thing souns very interesting.
I agree that we shouldn't be to fixed about who we will revive. And I also think that the reviving of a dead player has to be early in the game. as said by some other players, like day two or day three.

*Reiterating what has already been said. Very safe if he's scum.

Post 104
inHim wrote:
vote: Niempie

So obviously scum it's painful.

*Niempie never responded to this. Big scumtell.

Post 211 – the fonz
The Fonz wrote:
With that in mind, Vote: Nanook. Niempie looks fairly genuine, Albert doesn't look any scummier than he normally does, Nanook looks like he's just kind of agreeing with everything Niempie says thus far.

*This coincides with my feeling that The Fonz is scum. What has Niempie done to look genuine? Was it when he provided hollow, nothing content or when he didn't respond to inHim's accusation?

Post 214 Niempie –
Niempie wrote:
I am not saying that we should revive Yos. I am not even voting to revive Yos. I think that we should wait at least until day two before we decide who we should revive or not.

*If Niempie is scum, he knows Yos will eventually come up scum, and wouldn't want to have strongly supported the revive

Post 346 –
Niempie wrote:
I agree, at this moment I don't think we should lynch someone who could be telling the truth and have a power role.

*Seems to be trying to look pro-town without actually doing anything or accusing anyone

Post 398 Niempie
Niempie wrote:
I still think that at this point we shouldn't continue to ask RafK to explain what he knows about Yos. I do think that we should keep in mind the possibility that he is lying to us.

But this is only day one, so we don't have that much info to go on right now. And I don't think that we should decide on day two or three who we will revive. And based on hopefully other info we really can make a good decision on who to revive.

*Repeating what everyone else thinks as far as not rolefishing Rafk. Then tells us he might be lying to us. Scum would, of course, be very motivated to get us to not trust Rafk.

Niempie – post 610
Niempie wrote:
I see that we have revived The Fonz. At least we know have some knowledge of the roles. I am happy that we didn't revive the first day, because then we would have revived a Mafia member.

I agree that at this moment Albert does seem very scummy to me. In my opinion a quick lynch as happend yesterday is not good for town, but it is good for scum.

Oh, before I forget: I am not an anti-town role.

This looks especially scummy if The Fonz is mafia, but is scummy regardless. States reviving The Fonz gives us knowledge of the roles... how so exactly? Niempie is subtly trying to infer that reviving The Fonz assures us he's Town, when it doesn't.

Also, why not just say "I am pro-Town?" This is brought up later and he says:
Post 686
Niempie wrote:
There is no particular reason for the wording I used. I think I have seen it used before in this tread.

Except, no it wasn't. Seems to be grasping.

Niempie wrote:
I am also tempted to vote for Albert right now, but will await the prommised hieroglyphs before I decide if I will vote for him or not.
But I do think that Albert was out of line for voting for DG, even if he thought that it was the right decision at that time. I don't think that it is very pro-town do to this without hinting to the other players about what you are going to do. (Lynching another player by just voting for them).

Playing it very safe with the Albert lynch. Doesn't say anything that can be used against him whether Albert comes up Town or mafia. States obvious generalities that everyone already believes about Albert's play- also scummy.

Post 744 – Niempie
Niempie wrote:
I was surprised to see that it is already day 4. I think that the persons that ended the day AND the night so early without the town knowing what they were about to do, is bad for town. I know that they hinted towards their abilities, but as can be seen, (almost?) no-one really had an idea what the abilities were.
Albert had to pay for this, because he was lynched, and I think that Van Damien should have know how we would react. You still can end a night earlier, but wait a bit longer than the night was now.

I still think this is scummy - even moreso than MoS's reaction to the shortened night. Scum would be very motivated to have that night last a bit longer.

Post 745 – VanDamien responds
VanDamien wrote:
Hinted? Whether or not people are actually bothering to read what I wrote, I certainly did more than hint at it.

As to that last sentance: Are you sure? And even if I could - why would I? Should I have gambled on getting a cop investigation in before a kill?


Post 746 – Thoth responds
Thoth wrote:
It definitively is beneficial for the town to skip a night. It saves us 2 kills. That should be better than maybe getting a good investigation in.

Of course what Albert did hurt the town in an extreme way. He basically cost us 2 days, one where he ended the day killing a townie and then the one where he got lynched himself for it as was likely to happen. I hope I won't be on his side in a game soon.


Post 758 –
Niempie wrote:
It is beneficial for the town that we skipped a night in this game, because there were no kills. But I think that if Van Damien was a bit clearer with his hint, the town power roles could have send in a choice before mafia did, because mafia usually need more time to send in a choice.
And I think that because the night started in a weekend, when most people are less online, that people who did notice Van Damien hint about his power, would have missed the nightfall completely, because of the time it happened.

*Niempie posts more content about the shortened night than he's posted the entire thread. I think it's likely he was unable to use his NK.

Post 799 –
Niempie wrote:
I also think that Sacred is acting scummy by asking why someone voted for someone. If you want to know the reason, look it up in the post where they voted.
Most of the time the reason is in that post.

Vote: Sacred

I will be leaving for my holiday on Friday and won't have internet access until Monday, September 10th. I have asked the mod for a temp replacement....

*Substance-less vote on Sacred. I don't care that much that he left the vote on during the holiday, since he seemed to be thinking he'd have a temp replacement. However, his sole reason for voting being "Sacred is acting scummy by asking why someone voted for someone" is hardly a strong enough case to throw down his first real vote of the game. Since he's hardly been throwing them around, I would think his first would be more well thought-out rather than just jumping on a wagon like he did.

Zindaras pointed this out as well:
Post 800
Zindaras wrote:
Hey, Niempie, do you realise that that's the first vote that you've made in this entire game?

To be honest, this 'wagon is laughable. Each of you is ignoring Mossy's vote on Nightson, yet decides that Sacred's warrants a vote.

Vote: Niempie

I will take a more in-depth look at some of the players later on.


Post 879 Sacred lays out a Niempie analysis, every point of which could be a possible scum tell.
Sacred wrote:
7. Niempie
- almost 0 contribution
- one good comment (post 192)
- inactive
- just reiterations of stuff already said or obvious things
- waits for the hieroglyphs before voting for Albert
- thinks the day- and night-enders are bad for the town, reproaches to VanDamien that he should've waited for longer before ending night

All in all, after the re-read I feel pretty confident that Niempie is scum, and though I also think The Fonz is scum, in light of a possible no lynch, I'm going to vote: Niempie

I'm not going to stack quotes. Go back and look at my 36th post if you want it to be clearer.

Also, since I was told I'm a child king in my pm, why is it stretching that I'm Ptolemy when he was a child and hadn't yet done any of the "evil" things you'd like us to focus on? I don't follow your logic there.

[Setael]

Also, Setael is failing to address an important part of my argument, that is, why didn't she HALF-claim, and let herself be targeted at night?

This is a lie. I did address it. More than once. I will repeat myself here - it would have been lying and may have led to the death of 2 townies if I was targeted by a vig. No one is buying your rhetoric that the ONLY protown thing to do was to not fully claim. I didn't think to half claim nor have I ever half claimed. When I claim, I go for full disclosure and consider myself lying if I don't.

Re: Jester. Seems like I was wrong about Jester being cult; looks like he was scum, not cult. Therefore, my earlier conclusion does not stand in the face of new evidence, and a new one was formed.

My point still stands, and that "answer"you gave is actually just evading the question. The logic you used then you are disregarding now. It has nothing to do with Jester now being admittedly mafia. What it has to do with is you used different logic when dealing with possibly Jester cult than you are using with possibly Setael cult. Doesn't add up, and that's not a reason for changing your mind about how Dusk would treat other cult members re: investigations.

Fonz - I am not arguing that Setael is cult. In fact, I wrote, in the post just prior to yours, "Frankly, I do not know *what* Setael is. Scum, SK, cult, whatever."

I rather think Setael is scum. Scum makes more sense than cult, at this point. However I have a problem with Dusk clearing Setael. I don't know what's up with that.

UNLESS, unless - Setael is Godfatheriffic??? Could that be it?

Setael's role claim and role name clearly point to plain old scum.

This is funny because... your entire plan rests on your casual assumption that Jester is willing to hammer me. If I was a godfather, or scum at all for that matter, do you really think Jester would hammer me? You seem convinced we're NOT scum together because you seem to think it a given that he would hammer me, and yet you're also convinced that I'm regular scum. How are you reconciling that in your mind?

In fact, Jester giving up like this and his "I'm now protown" attitude strongly indicates he's the last mafia member.

However, frankly I'd like to know why we seem to have moved away from Jester.

My guess? Because DGB is cult and would REALLY like to get me lynched. The only way she sees that possibly happening is getting Jester to hammer me. Too bad her logic is broken to be saying I'm regular scum WITH Jester.

My cult list at present:

DGB
Dusk
Zindaras and Thoth close tie for third. If we ever get more info about the revival issue, this would change.

Ready for a Jester lynch whenever you guys get around to it. In the meantime, I'm perfectly happy with DGB continuing to dig her grave.

[Setael]

What it has to do with is you used different logic when dealing with possibly Jester cult than you are using with possibly Setael cult. Doesn't add up, and that's not a reason for changing your mind about how Dusk would treat other cult members re: investigations.

Not quite sure what you are trying to say here. But now that I realize you are the probably Godfather, it changes everything. Dusk's motives are no longer pertinent; she would have been telling the truth about her results, but you would still be scum.

You're still evading so I'll spell it out for you.

Here's the key post:

Really? We've gone over this so this statement surprises me. If Jester is cult, Dusk couldn't confirm his innocence because there's a good chance he'll be lynched, come up cult and prove Dusk was lying when she confirmed Jester. Dusk is the much more "confirmed/generally being trusted" player so the cult would protect her identity before Jester's in a heartbeat, if that's the case.

Ah... I knew I was missing something. Alright. I was wrong about you being a likely cult recruit.

Could Kilroy be cult? Could the roleblocker be cult?

You agreed with this point and said I was an unlikely cult recruit.

Jester's obvious willingness to hammer me makes it pretty obvious I'm not mafia. Regardless of your "isn't it a perfect plan?!" you can't deny the fact that your whole plan is based on your assumption that he'll hammer me, which means YOU don't think I'm scum.

I'm curious about something. Here are a couple of your past statements that you now seem to be contradicting/no longer believe. Nothing has really changed, so I'd like to know why.

Let's suppose that Dusk wanted to investigate an un-NK'able player. She'd have a choice between you (Setael) and Jester. Now, the Bomb role is a very pro-town one, if it's true. Essentially a suicidal day-vig if I'm not mistaken. On the other hand, a simple un-NK'able claim, is extremely rare in a townie, smells of scum, and truly reeks of SK. Even narrowing it down to two players, Dusk's night choice is the wrong one.

regarding my play on the TSS wagon:

It is, but the thought had occured to me that Setael might not have defended scum so readily had she known the player to be scum.

[Setael]

Setael's cult list is strange. She sees Nightson as cult (correctly IMO), but not Dusk (not anymore, suddenly!), and now, Zindaras, Thoth and myself.

Once again misconstruing the facts/lying to paint me as scummy.

DGB
Dusk
Zindaras and Thoth close tie for third.

I can agree Nightson is also likely. He should probably be my 3rd. My opinion about Dusk hasn't changed, though. Get your facts straight. Or stop lying. Whichever applies.

[Setael]

I had a thought tonight. Doing it would be putting a lot of trust in Jester, but if we believe that he's taking the side of the town against the cult, it might work.

What if we left Jester alive another night and asked him to NK one of the most likely cult recruits. We could even all give our cult list and whoever is #1 suspect, have Jester kill.

Here's the player list:

Thoth
Setael (replacing Pinky - was temp-replaced by Pooky)
Zindaras
DrippingGoofball (replacing White (replacing YogurtBandit))
Nightson
Flameaxe (replacing VanDamien (replacing A Papaya))
The Fonz
Dusk (replacing RafK)
Kilroy8675309 (replacing NanookTheWolf)

9 players, 3 cult and 1-2 mafia leaves 4-5 town. There's a possibility that there are more anti-town roles than town roles at this point. Very slim odds of a town win. We pretty much can't afford any mislynches at all. But if Jester is the only mafia left and he NKs a cult member tonight, our odds are higher. If there are 2 mafia, I doubt he'd be able to convince the other one and this wouldn't work.

Jester, your thoughts?

[Setael]

First off, Jester isn't hammered.

Jester (5): Setael, Kilroy, Flameaxe, The Fonz, Dusk
Dusk (1): The Jester
Setael (1): DGB

This is what the VC looked like before kilroy unvoted the Jester and then revoted him. So now it looks like this:

Jester (5): Setael, Flameaxe, The Fonz, Dusk, kilroy
Dusk (1): The Jester
Setael (1): DGB

I still think we should consider lynching Dusk today who I think after the last couple of pages is now mega obviously cult. I think we should ask Jester to NK Nightson tonight and then see where we're at in the morning. Tomorrow we'll still have the option of having Jester hammer me so DGB can rest easier. I've been trying to look at it from her point of view, which is hard because using her logic it seems there's no way I can be cult and no way I can be mafia (because then jester wouldn't want to hammer me, now would he?) But I can see her point that if I was cult or mafia, the town is screwed. I'm just not as worried about it because I know I'm town - I know Dusk is telling the truth with her results on my role. I still think she's cult, but decided rather than implicating cult members by clearing someone who would then out her when they came up cult, she chose to clear me. Makes sense to me.

unvote, vote: Dusk

I would also vote Nightson today, and yes, I'd go back to Jester since he's admitted scum. I just think our best bet is to take advantage of Jester's willingness to NK one of the likely cult recruits. If he doesn't do it, fine, we lynch him tomorrow. If he does and they come up cult we're in a lot better position.

So, since MGM might not be around anytime soon, this is the current VC:

Jester (4): Flameaxe, The Fonz, Dusk, kilroy
Dusk (2): The Jester, Setael
Setael (1): DGB

[Setael]

I don't think the town is going to win this game.

So, just do whatever.

[Setael]

I have no problem with that. Put me to -1 and Jester will hammer me. Because we're not scum together. He will hammer me because he thinks I might be cult. DGB realizes how unlikely it is that I'm cult, but insists I'm scum WITH Jester and that Jester will hammer me. Even though we're both scum.

This will forever cement in history what a moron DGB is for not realizing, regardless of how many times I tell her, that if Jester and I were both scum in this situation, Jester would not hammer me. Or, on the other hand, she's scum and it will forever cement the idiocy of those who follow her when it makes absolutely no sense.

Either way, I'm ok with it. Don't expect me to vote for myself though. Even if I didn't know my alignment and was a townie who had no insight into my alignment, I wouldn't go along with this non-logic, and so I won't be voting myself. Cult will need no convincing, but DGB may have to work to convince the others she'll need on the wagon.

Good luck with it! I won't be addressing it anymore. I'm tired of dealing with DGB.

[Setael]

EVEN if you're right that Setael is town, we have to lynch her. And we have to lynch her today. If we don't, we [THE CULT] lose.

Flameaxe, I think you can safely add DGB to your list of obvcult.

[Setael]

Setael keeps her vote on Dusk, but Setael has no alternative, though if she's town, she should vote herself, because that the best way for the town to win. I understand why she wouldn't.

Don't expect me to vote for myself though. Even if I didn't know my alignment and was a townie who had no insight into my alignment, I wouldn't go along with this non-logic, and so I won't be voting myself. Cult will need no convincing, but DGB may have to work to convince the others she'll need on the wagon.

I will never vote someone I KNOW to be a townie.

[Setael]

DGB, I have a question for you.

Are you convinced enough that I'm scum and my claim is a lie that YOU would be willing to hammer me?

[Setael]

I'm not caught scum. I'm annoyed town. Why am I annoyed? Because you are not seeing reason. Your response to my logic (when all your other arguments were proven to make no sense) was "I now think Jester will hammer you as a joke". That doesn't hold water, sorry. If we were both scum, and he was willing to hammer me as a joke, I think he'd have been a little more open about saying he still has a scum buddy alive.

I do think there's a chance we have a godfather, I just know it's not me. So if you get me lynched, the town's actually in a worse position. Your entire "evil pharoah" argument is shot down by the fact that my role specifically told me I am a child king.

I really don't care to respond to you anymore, but when you pull all this "I knew you'd give up" and "this is how caught scum act" I can't let you get away with that. I am not wanting to respond to you because you don't listen to reason.

[Setael]

Can we all just agree to vote for Zinderas, since we can't come to a vote on Jester or Setael?

I think this quote did more than clarify that Zindaras is not cult with Dusk. I also think it makes Niempie look even more likely cult than before, since a LOT more suspicion has been voiced against Niempie lately than Zindaras, yet Dusk chose Zindaras over Niempie here. Also, if we look at DGB's reaction:

Have you lost your mind???

Why would we lynch Zindaras over Jester?

Who said we can't come to a vote on Setael??? You wish we can't come to a vote on Setael. You wish.

You really, really don't want us to lynch Setael. Under no circumstance. You'd rather we lynch Zindaras. Anyone but Setael.

Your suggestion that we lynch Zindaras instead of Jester or Setael is yet another reason why we'd be fools not to let Jester hammer Setael today. The more you protest, the better the idea sounds.

This whole post felt like cult trying to convince a cult buddy to support my wagon. I feel like all this bickering is contrived so Dusk can join my wagon without linking herself to DGB. I was also thinking and DGB's main argument that she can't be cult is that she wasn't a claimed power role when the cult leader died. But I don't think there were any other power roles that had claimed at that point so they'd have been choosing blindly anyway and any of us (DGB included) are likely as the 3rd recruit. The only more likely are those who were revived, and Niempie would've had no guarantee that they weren't scum, so they're probably not any more likely either.

Most likely cult list

Dusk
Niempie
DGB

I've changed my mind about the possibility of asking Jester to NK one of the obv cults. He is very likely not the last mafia left, and it's unlikely the other one would agree with that plan since they want us to be wasting lynches on cult members. We need to put a stop to NKs so we have time to lynch all the cultists.

unvote, vote: Jester

Jester (4): Flameaxe, The Fonz, Dusk, Setael
Dusk (2): The Jester
Setael (3): DGB, kilroy, Nightson

Not voting: Thoth, Zindaras

With 10 alive, it will take 6 to lynch.

[Setael]

DGB, I apologize for the typo, since it wasted you a lot of time with that post. When I wrote Niempie, I meant Nightson of course since Niempie was the cult leader and is dead. My cult list should read:

Most likely cult list

Dusk
Nightson
DGB

That's better. No need for you to get all crazy bolding everything.

You did not respond to my post where RafK himself explains how his investigations are not entirely reliable. Since you are unable to counter my arguments, you respond by throwing cult accusations at me.

Didn't I? I think a godfather would only be immune to kilroy's investigations. I agree with whoever said that Rafk's role of weighing truth will also catch a godfather. If there is a godfather alive, I believe Rafk's role would read that person as lying when they say they are protown. I could be wrong, but it seems reasonable.

PREDICTED:

Cult will need no convincing, but DGB may have to work to convince the others she'll need on the wagon.

DELIVERED:

And now you realize that since Fonz and Zindaras have been doubting your claim since last summer, they are quite likely going to take this opportunity to take Jester's offer to hammer you, and take you to L-1.

A noble attempt to try to get votes out of Fonz and Zindaras. You messed up with one thing though:

Zindaras and Fonz were puzzling about how on Earth they were going to lynch you. No one dared to sacrifice themselves. They wanted a cultist to hammer you. Now we have the option of using a confessed scum.

When I claimed, we did not know yet that there was a cult. So how could this have been possible? Would you like to provide some quotes where Fonz and Zindaras said they'd like to have a cultist hammer me?

[Setael]

DGB, I think the only reason you're using the "unlikely cult because they hadn't claimed" for me is because you want it used on you. As I said before, as far as I can remember (someone correct me if I'm wrong) the only players that had claimed and were unlikely to be NKd (and therefore likely cult recruits) were Nightson and Rafk/Dusk. Everyone else is equally likely to be the 3rd.

[Setael]

Thanks for replacing! Good luck. This thread is a beast.

[Setael]

I'm totally fine with winning with the Cult.

This sounded a lot like Kilroy admitting he's cult. That doesn't mean I think he should be lynched today, since we need to get rid of the killing roles. I'm sticking with Jester.

DGB, I see your argument that if I am a godfather it would be in the town's best interest to have Jester hammer me. I also see the fact (that you refuse to see) that it MAKES NO SENSE that Jester would be willing to hammer me if we're both scum. None. So give it up. Jester is today's lynch.

[Setael]

I think the ability to mummify someone is BS. First, he's said he's willing to hammer me, so why didn't he "mummify" ME? If he was able to day kill, I think he'd have used it back when he was almost hammered.

[Setael]

Too bad he didn't mummify DGB, that might set this game on the right track.

Agreed.

[Setael]

I'm not sure who you're talking to kilroy, but my thought is that if we just say "let's just let cult win and tell ourselves town won too" it's the same as if we let mafia win as long as before it happened the townies claimed that it would also mean a win for them. It makes no sense. You only win if you meet your win condition. Tell yourself what you want, if the cult wins this game I will have lost.

Also, I love Fonz so much right now. Is there a scummy nomination for best tagline ever?

[Setael]

Too bad you didn't mummify Setael, whatever that does. Is she your buddy?

I totally understand your choice of Flameaxe, except that he's confirmed by Kilroy, so that's no good if you are trying to help the town. Methinks you didn't want to mummify your buddy Setael... hmmmm... right?

Can we change her title from "Funniest" to "Most Redundant"?

[Setael]

That wasn't ad hom. When I called you annoying, that was ad hom - but to call your arguments redundant, that's fair. Wouldn't you say?

[Setael]

DGB, if it makes you feel better, The Jester is annoying me more than you are. At least you're not making up imaginary abilities.

[Setael]

Again, I disagree. You two can both be scum, yet still not teammates. In both cases, Jester would be willing to hammer you.

Meaning he'd be scum and I'd be cult? Or do you think there is another scum group in existence?

I agree that the only way Zindaras would hammer me is if he thinks I'm cult. I've said this repeatedly. DGB insists I'm unlikely cult since I didn't claim whil the cult was recruiting (because she wants to be able to use this argument for herself as well) so her only solution is I'm the fairy godfather.

[Setael]

I think Dusk just reads every other post.

DGB, I corrected this for you:

MAYBE CULTED (looking at their behavior, timing of claim)
Flameaxe (replacing VanDamien (replacing A Papaya))
Dusk (replacing RafK)
The Fonz
Nightson
DrippingGoofball (replacing White (replacing YogurtBandit))

MAYBE TOWN (looking at their behavior, timing of claim)
Kilroy8675309 (replacing NanookTheWolf)
Zindaras - maybe town
Ether (replacing Thoth)
Setael (replacing Pinky - was temp-replaced by Pooky)

MAYBE SCUM
The Jester (replacing inHimshallibe) (confessed scum)

Ether, though I doubt Dusk would want to confirm me AGAIN, here's my lie for you:

I am scum.

Niempie was lynched day 4. So there was N0, N1, N2 and N3. One of those (I can't be arsed to go back and look for which one right now) was sped up by kilroy and to our knowledge no night actions were performed. So there are likely only 3 recruits.

[Setael]

Not kilroy, I meant to type ABR but it wasn't him either. I'd have to go back and look - it was before I replaced in.

[Setael]

I'm assuming that if someone replaced into a cult role, they'd be informed how many other cult members there are and who they are. If that's the case, I think Ether is virtually cleared as not being a recruit for assuming there'd be 4. Not sure what to think about DGB. I can see her faking the "oh yeah, I forgot about N0" to cover the fact that she had been assuming (or knew) there were only 3. Also possible she is not cult and it was genuine - I'm torn on her.

As for my correction of DGB's list, I just moved me and DGB and left the rest. I was in a hurry. My cult list is still Dusk, Nightson and DGB, with several possibilities fighting for DGB's spot.

[Setael]

Dusk, can you ask MGM a question for me? He may not answer, but it wouldn't hurt to ask. Here's the question:

"If there's a godfather in the game, would my ability to detect lies work on them?"

[Setael]

And who is going to hammer her? A TOWNIE, or a CULTIST??? Here lies the dilemma. This is why it has to be done today, and by Jester.

Here is why I don't believe that DGB genuinely thinks I'm mafia. She believes my claim. She says she's willing to hammer me, but she's not, because she believes she would die along with me. Her main argument is "Setael is lying and isn't a bomb, but NO ONE (including DGB) is going to be willing to hammer her at end game." The only reason she wouldn't be willing to hammer me at end game is if she believes I am a bomb and it will mean she also dies.

This is also why I think DGB is cult. Recruits stand to benefit the most as far as numbers are concerned if she's able to get me lynched. If she was a townie who genuinely thought I was mafia lying about my claim her attitude would be more like this:

I'm unsure why you're so worried about Setael. If she's scum, the bomb threat isn't real. If she's cult, hammering her just means that the town can't be brought further from LyLo by killing her--the same way that mafia have a nightkill, no big deal, it can't prevent a town win. If she's town, we don't have to lynch her, problem solved.

Plus it still makes no sense for her to think Jester would hammer me if he and I were on the same scum team.

We need to lynch Jester, especially now that he's to the point of claiming fake abilities. His time has come.

[Setael]

The Jester is willing to take that chance

He doesn't believe your claim either

DGB, seriously. Look at these two sentences. Do these sound like you think Jester and I are both mafia? If he and I were scum buddies how would he be "willing to take that chance"? You don't even talk like you believe I'm mafia.

I've been killing myself trying to explain this for weeks. Only The Jester seems to "get it."

This REALLY should tell you something, since he's confessed scum. It's a given that if the only one who "gets" your logic is scum, then something's probably wrong.

[Setael]

Nightson, if you're not cult, who do you think is? I have a few reasons for thinking you're cult besides the fact that you claimed early and would've been a safe bet for them.

1) You are avoiding the cult discussion
2) You aren't accusing anyone else of being cult
3) You are following DGB, who I think is cult
4) You are lurking

I'm sure I could think of a few others, but those are the obvious ones off the top of my head.

I need to go back and find out when kilroy received his results. He could have been given innocents on players before they were culted. Also, since there is a small chance kilroy is a recruit, we can't necessarily trust his results anyway.

[Setael]

There are only 3 cult members. Niempie, DGB and kilroy are already voting me. I don't think Dusk is on the wagon yet but I could've missed her vote. I'm guessing she's willing. So... how does the "large number of people" who don't want to vote me bother you? Does that mean you don't think Niempie or Dusk are cult? What about DGB? Does this mean you think Fonz and Flameaxe are cult for thinking I'm town?

And, keep in mind, that DGB thinks it's likely I'm NOT cult. She's pushing this wagon because she thinks I'm mafia.

[Setael]

Looks like that post shut DGB up.

Can we lynch Jester now?

[Setael]

And that night 0 cult is most likely to be DGB.

Oh and btw this back and forth between Jester and DGB is hugely entertaining.

[Setael]

It's based on your play

now

, DGB, but as has been pointed out - the cult had nothing to go on N0. Yogurt would've been as good a choice as any. The only one who seems to be pushing something that would benefit the cult more than the town (my lynch based on broken logic) is you.

[Setael]

How am I now a scummy player? Is it my role that's scummy or my claim or my play? Make up your mind.

P.S. I'll be out of town all weekend. Don't know if I'll have access.

[Setael]

Here's an idea. Let's lynch Jester so we can get the night started. The last night lasted like 2 months so that'll give Ether plenty of time to read the thread.

If we keep going at this non-pace the game is going to die. So let's lynch the claimed scum.

[Setael]

What if The Jester is some kind of... well, Jester? That'd bite.

If a Jester is lynched, he wins his win condition, but it's not game over right? Can the town still win?

[Setael]

It's not going to happen DGB. You can't get enough of the town behind you and it's putting this game at a stand still. I'm not going to support it because I'm not scum nor am I cult. So give it up and help us lynch Jester.

[Setael]

Alrighty then. I won't be moving my vote off Jester and I certainly won't be voting myself. Somebody prod me when the day ends.

[Setael]

Jester and Seteal are obvious what? Jester has told us he's mafia. Do you think I'm mafia too or do you think I'm cult? What do you think of Dusk's innocent result of me, since you don't seem too sure if you think Dusk is anti town or not.

I'll be out of town with no access until Tuesday. Have a good weekend everyone.

[Setael]

I believe this is the VC:

The Jester (3): The Fonz, Dusk, Setael
Setael (3): DGB, Kilroy, Nightson
Dusk (1): The Jester
DGB (1): Flameaxe

Tomorrow is the deadline. Because I know I'm town, of course I think the best move would be to just lynch Jester. This would give us the best chance to defeat the cult. I can recognize that I'm the only one that knows that for sure so if the day ends with Jester hammering me, that's not the end of the world. It would force DGB to stop beating a dead horse and look elsewhere. It will probably also lead to her lynch for single handedly killing a townie. I think she's cult so that's not so bad either.

I want to throw something out there in case I'm lynched today. Based on the fact that cult would be very motivated to get rid of me today, I think kilroy may be cult. He's parked his vote on me and then disappeared. If he was town I don't think this would've happened. I think Jester's the last killing role, or there would've been a roleblock of one of our investigative roles. There's a chance kilroy's scum and lied about being blocked until last night when he got results in order to WIFOM us into thinking there's only one scum left.

Either way, I'm just saying kilroy shouldn't be trusted without question. Maybe we're on the wrong track about the cult recruiting power roles - power roles would be more vulnerable to NKs so maybe they'd avoid them and just shoot in the dark, in which case we could be wrong about Dusk and Nightson being definitely cult.

So anyway. I think the town is a long way from being sure of who's cult (despite DGB trying to make us think we are) and if Jester and I both die tonight, I won't be surprised if the town loses. But though my mislynch is not helpful for the town, getting rid of Jester is so do whatever. Just don't no lynch.

[Setael]

Tied up again. So it'll still be Jester who is lynched at deadline rather than me unless someone else moves their vote, in which case it won't be Jester dying along with me, it will be whoever moves their vote.

Jester, you know I'm not mafia so you must be voting me because you think I'm cult. Right? Do you have any reason for thinking I'm cult, or are you willing to hammer me just because I'm not your scum buddy? (In other words, are you just trying to do what DGB tells you to do, or do you actually have a reason?)

[Setael]

If it makes you feel better, DGB, you're wrong about my alignment. Though if you're cult, that won't be very comforting at all. As I've said before, I think the cult will be much more concerned about my role which makes me suspicious of you.

[Setael]

And I so liked your electoral platform of diffusing the

so-called claimed Bomb slash Godfather slash evil scumbag Pharaoh

protown Bomb, and nightkilling Dusk.

It was the perfect plan for a cult win.

Fixed.

[Setael]

Except that there is no way that your rolename is town, and no way that your claim is real. A player that can't be hammered, and can't be NK'd, is a broken role.

Tell that to the mod.

And I'm not the one who called myself a Bomb. I'd never even heard of that role before this game. My PM does not call me a bomb, it says anyone responsible for my death will die of shame and grief.

[Setael]

Child king, DGB. Prove to me that Ptolemy was a bloodthirsty Pharoah WHILE STILL A CHILD and your logic will make sense.

[Setael]

Probably. I don't know if this game will survive another night if it's like the last one.

[Setael]

What's really sad is... we have one.

[Setael]

Sweet, the game's back up.

I'm surprised Dusk was NK'd. Not only was it likely we'd have lynched her today, it also confirms me. It actually really looks like a protown killing. Could be a 1-shot protown vig that just hasn't claimed.

In other news, I'm leaving town until Monday. I may have limited access and if so will try to check in.

[Setael]

I think Nightson is cult. I don't really have any other leads or solid suspicions, so

vote: Nightson

[Setael]

What are you talking about? He only gets one result per night - he submits 2 at a time, but only receives results one at a time.

You

have

read the thread by now, haven't you?

[Setael]

This game is dying.

Let's lynch Nightson.

[Setael]

I would agree with Nightson or DGB as today's lynch. DGB because a cultist would be much more motivated to try to get me killed yesterday the way DGB did, and Nightson because I think he's cult.

[Setael]

DGB, as I said, my reason for thinking your cult has nothing to do with who I think the recruiter would've recruited. It has everything to do with how hard you tried to get a townie (me) lynched yesterday when I think cult would be much more motivated to get rid of me than town.

Also, if I was a cult recruiter, I'd want Yogurt on my team since he's a good, experienced player - and I think the first night the recruiter would've had no role info on anyone, so your argument dies there as well.

[Setael]

Personal opinion I guess.

Maybe he's my alt. You never know...

[Setael]

This game had a N0. There is no reason YB/DGB couldn't have been recruited that night. There were no investigation roles claimed since the game hadn't started. So your arguments die, DGB. Sorry about that.

Also, if I was a cult recruiter I think I'd like to recruit someone who is able to stay under the radar. Less likely to get lynched or NK'd and all that. YB/DGB is still alive this close to end game after all. Makes sense, eh?

[Setael]

Let's just lynch him.

[Setael]

lol

[Setael]

I'd be tempted to finish the day, but between a borderline useful investigative role and an Evil Bloodthirsty Pharaoh Ptolemy fake claiming Bomb, I'd vote the latter.

What if Nightson had the good sense to investigate Setael?

No I'm not voting Nightson. It's a long game, but I'm sure someone would be willing to step into end game.

Translation: DGB and Nightson are both cult.

[Setael]

I think DGB's cult so I'd vote her today.

I could see Zindie as the last mafia, so I'd vote him today.

I also see merit in lynching kilroy today to see if we can believe any of his investigations, and because it's possible he's the last mafia.

[Setael]

I think we should just lynch Zindie.

[Setael]

I don't think scum would preach so strongly against a mass claim. And I think DGB is not protown.

Therefore, I am not in support of a mass claim. I am, however, in support of lynching Zindie.

vote: Zindaras

[Setael]

Interesting.

unvote, vote: DGB

I'm more confident that DGB is cult than I am about anything else in this game. It is possible they have a NK now so it's a decent plan to weed out the cultists first, and even if there's still a mafia out there, I'd rather aim at the one person I'm most sure is antitown.

[Setael]

I think DGB is Seth.

[Setael]

DGB's role seems odd to me considering players' roles were not revealed at all in this game until the town revived someone. I guess it's possible. Still think she's cult.

[Setael]

I'm still fine with a DGB lynch, but the more I think about it, it's really odd that kilroy hasn't been NK'd yet if he is a protown cop. Would the scum really risk being caught like this? I'm leaning toward thinking kilroy is not protown. Happy with lynching either him or DGB.

[Setael]

I'm here. Sorry I haven't been checking in much - this is the only game I'm in and I'm kind of just waiting for it to end.

Feeling good about a DGB lynch so... I'm stayin' put.

[Setael]

DGB, you do get points for relentlessly pursuing the most misdirected suspicion that has ever existed, in spite of all evidence, logic and common sense.

Have you forgotten that Dusk cleared me and came up town? How do you reconcile that? The only motivation I can see for you to so blatantly and doggedly continue to paint me as evil when I'm not is that you are not protown.

Someone get a rope already.

[Setael]

Sorry, I'm low on time. And interest. I probably won't post anything insightful anytime soon. I'm kind of just waiting for DGB to come up cult and then I'll start caring. Until then, I'm not interested in being really active because all it does is incite DGB to continue her nonsensical tirade about my role.