The Thing Mafia - Game over!

[MagnaofIllusion]

Oh look, 6 pages of fun ...

Personally I don't think too much can be drawn from numbers as what scum would do is going to be driven by the psychological make-up of the scum team. I could see a Spyrex / DGB team being cheeky enough to have 3-4 numbers duplicate for the WIFOM of it. Until we get some scum flips and see "who goes there" there is little to be gained from saying "I'm going to scum-hunt based on numbers".

Have some concerns with Wraith for the Stars Aligned III analogy as there were far more mechanics in place in that game that enabled the lock-down he was talking about.

I would be thrilled with either a Tammy or Andrius tree-stump. Both I trust to be a good sounding board for me if they are Town and having that be mod confirmed at some point is a bonus in my opinion.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Oh, and a cookie for the first person who gets the reference I stuck in there ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

I am very worried that if Tammy becomes confirmed and is allowed to be treestump, that everyone is going to follow because there will be a fear that arguing with her over reads will proceed to lynches. This means everyone just follows her.

You clearly don't know the player-list that well then ...

A siezable number of good old-fashioned stubborn players not afraid to tell the tree-stump Town "You're nuts" if they disagree with her reads.

A much smaller set of weak-ass sheep.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Tammy actually is pretty easy to read as scum ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

No he's Firebringer and insists on this charade for god knows whatever reason.

I'm cranky so time for bed.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So I’m quite curious why the fuss over a Strongman Vengeful Lyncher role being taken by McMenno.

I mean – it is a completely suboptimal role choice for scum. It has to by lynched at a point where all the unused Vig shots misfiring in a Night would still maintain us in MYLO. That’s hardly a recipe for surviving long term.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Are you sure? It's essentially a free kill as a failsafe, and the effect automatically makes the town less willing to lynch them. The Vengeful is not very useful to the town until the late stages of the game, since the scum can easily neutralize it by nightkilling him and the Vengeful kill is far more likely to hit town than scum from a probability standpoint (depending how early the Vengeful is lynched, of course).

I'm positive. It's like claiming Miller - that claim has to be resolved well before LYLO either by rope or Nightkill.

On the Town side - I disagree with you that Vengeful isn't that strong for Town.

Exhibit A - That 70s SmallTown Mafia.

I specifically chose the Vengekill to keep it out of scum's hands. Was lynched for the sort of paranoia being floated here and shot scum. Granted this is a Mini Theme but the principal still applies - well managed a Vengekill can be powerful for Town.

And yes, as scum it can get them a free kill if they are lynched. They can be vigged removing that threat.

At this point McMenno has established he'd better play Obv-Town times 5 or he's getting Vigged or lynched very early. Which is not a good scum strategy.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Our turn next. I'll have to look at my notes to see what role I'll pick, as I won't pick something my hydra partner won't like.
~GE

Transcend loves fruit vendors ... just so you know

[MagnaofIllusion]

Nah I think I want something else more.
I want MacReady.

I hate you and want you to die ....

Seriously that was the one character I wanted this game. Mac is the best ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

I want the role for the Jailer-like properties it has.
If you really want I can request another.

Please hold on declaring the role taken; I may want to switch.

I wasn't being serious ... you can tell by the Smilie use from me which is a rarity.

Or more precisely, I did very much want MacReady but didn't expect to get him and just wanted to tease whoever picked him before me.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Also Norris is much less dangerous than I first believed if he can't sabotage the jailkeep or most of the roleblocks.

Um that's not correct as far as NAR goes. The list only comes into play when there is a direct conflict between roles.

So Norris can Sabotage the other blocking roles if they don't target him. If they do they have priority.

Small but critical difference.

[MagnaofIllusion]

And Tammy playing without Nacho in a hydra is 100% more readable which is a great thing!

I like Nacho but he complicates the process of getting at the heart of Tammy's play.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So just waiting on Andy at this point. Sweet. Already have 3 roles left on the board I'm mulling so once he drops his choice I'll make mine quickly.

Play numberwang with me. My gut aches at scum sacrificing a 1 jicm and a 6 wouldnt surprise me

6 wouldn't surprise you? I'd be shocked as shit if there isn't at least 1 scum in your four and gut says two with scum doubling and unlucky on Town also duplicating given we have 4 players who chose 6.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Cake or Death?

No.

Hat or Egg

[MagnaofIllusion]

Well luckily Toog seems to want in.

I'd suggest that Cakez replace DS out before he drafts since Toog is already set as a replacement and then has a little bit of agency in what role he chooses.

[MagnaofIllusion]

And Andy selected one of my choices …

So I’ve been looking at Childs for the 1-Shot BP for selfish personal reasons but I think it’s better if I lock a blocking role out of the hands of scum.

I choose Norris

[MagnaofIllusion]

Is The Thing remake any good / worth watching? I usually abhore remakes, and am almost ideologically opposed to them, but, BUT, there have been some remakes that have been worthwhile, so I don't "just say no" and well, with this game and me being a remake character, I'm thinking maybe I should watch it? Would love some feedback.

It isn't a remake. It is a "parallel story" ... what happened at the Norwegian Base before the 83 Thing. There are some issues that the march of time between Carpenter's original and this movie naturally create (think technology) that you have to be willing to "suspension of disbelief" but they aren't horrible.

On a plus side watch the new movie and then watch the portion of Carpenter's original where they visit that base and see if you can spot where the integrated set-pieces and such into the new movie from that portion of the old.

Thumbs completely up from me ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Only questionable thing I've seen is ironically, the effects are pretty bad compared to the original.

I would not say they are horrible but it shows that digital effects aren't necessarily superior to practical effects.

[MagnaofIllusion]

3. I'm nervous about MoI's pick because I know he's a good player. MoI, just realize that if you use your ability without the town's collective sanction I'll be the first to lead the lynch mob.

I think this is understood for all blocking roles ...

My question is - do you not think Andrius is a good player? He picked a very similar role just in front of me.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I do think he is, it's just that when someone uses the JK it's a lot easier to deduce...I think?

Why would you think that? People aren't informed that they are Jailkept.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Tammy is Town. Put it in the bank.

VOTE: drealm

His "I don't want to coordinate its not Mafia" stance reeks of scum uncomfortable with the possibility of being PoEd regardless of how "well" he plays.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Meh ... I don't get that vibe myself. Good enough starting point.

Why Esp again Spyrex?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Read his iso, then reread this. Its so fake.

And hes a 1 win win.

Well ... I'm off to bed so I'll look in the morning.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOD - Life has kicked me in the teeth today and I'll be driving like 12 hours tomorrow so consider my normal weekend V/LA started a bit early.

Luckily day just started so I expect there will be time for me to catchup and get my thoughts on coordination in thread.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ok back from hell weekend and catching up …

Probably will do this in 10 page size bites since I really have about 20 pages to process.

Starting at 27 with the game actually beginning even though I have a few posts in there.

Double Trouble’s entrance sets off warning bells for me with 680. Especially with Math’s explanation at 739. And 743 rings absolutely hollow given that there was plenty of non-mechanical scum hunting going on in the thread when it was posted.

Count GenX as an early scum-read for 706. This game has even less reason for RVS fluff than a usual game. GenX has already called multiple people scummy. Yet we get this. Buddying up to Spiffeh at the same time also adds to my suspicion.

@McMenno

– if 732 is your version of obv-Town then I want Goat and you forced into the same room tonight and for nature to take its course.

--

And I don't care about the excuse "well i'm town and don't want to waste my life" if you're town you do as you're fucking told by the consensus near the end of the day.

Want to highlight this applies to pretty much any consensus decision not just “go with the Vig”. Kids TV Characters Mafia is a perfect example of why – we established an action plan that as long as it was followed would automatically PoE the scum. I was a Commuterizor who could protect myself that Night but the plan was to protect and confirm another player who was on people’s suspect lists.

Even though I yearned to protect myself I stuck to the plan as going rogue would have not allowed the living players to make the correct conclusions as the game wound down.

--

If you aren't scum can you stop posting as if you are? Cause I swear the number of times a scum player has said "you have no clue how to read me" is off the charts.

So you’ve never seen Town say that?

--

Great vig targets for Goatmeal in order of my preference: Flames682, hi im Yakko, McMenno, PeregrineV, Yume

Scratch Peregrine from the list (he’s absolutely readable regardless of his alignment) and I’m completely on board with this list.

--

Do you have an example of this? Because I'm seeing town. Eager town with lots of words.

Um I don’t think you really need to ask this given you’ve multiple times referenced the Stars Aligned III game which is textbook (although more easily set-up than here IMO).

I get you see lots of words as “eager newbie” but what about those words screams Town when there is a significant amount devoted to “Planning is bad” when clearly planning, as long as it doesn’t eclipse scum-hunting” is good?

--

829 is in the end why I kept my vote on Dreal in this first catch-up phase. The amount of effort given to arguing what is effectively a non-point as opposed to finding and pushing scums does not compute to me for an “enthusiastic Town” player. And the reads list at 857 makes little sense given what Dreal has posted so far.

That's how I read a lot of roles and is a huge part of how I am reading this game (role selection + behavior) because I have almost 0 familiarity with any players here.

I was surprised more roles that I viewed as scum-centric didn't get off the board sooner from good Humans trying to keep them out of the hands of Things. The fact that Norris, Lars, and Lloyd went as far down as they did is very disconcerting to me.

However, I'm glad to have gotten Lars to keep him out of the hands of scum, who in my evaluations is #3rd-6th most powerful role for scum to have (depending on role makeup + strategy.)

So what is the take-away here with the bolded …

I’m trying to decide what disconcerts you about those abilities dropping. Because your theory seems to hold that scum would be happy to jump on those abilities. Yet you wished the “Good Humans” above you had taken them.

Really this whole thing (pun intended)looks like a way to establish you care about the game but without actual conclusion you can draw from it. Are the people who didn’t take the roles more likely to be Town or scum? And if no conclusion could be drawn why post this in the first place?

Their day-chat is the thread here. This also allows for more insurance against Things in the hood.

Please elaborate on what this means …

--

I could vote for dreal

Why haven’t you then?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ok … on to page 36 and up …

That Dreal has time to prepare “tricksy traps” , as explained in 1007 but does not have time to actually explain his reads reads like newb-scum 101 to me. Especially after seeing 1110.

my top reads for scum are:

andrius
spyrex
PV
spiff

Explanations pronto …

--

It would only block Skybird's vend if he targeted you with it.

I think Spyrex and Skybird should be in the same room with at least 1 other person and Skybird vend to the whole room. Thus Spyrex can lock Skybird per his goals and the others can confirm that Skybird failed to vend to them.

Unless I’m missing some mechanical interaction there.

I'm going to the kennels..the vendor too. Whomever else wants to touch this stunning body meet me there

Lulz, apparently I did not …
--

Ran head caught up. Get at me thread.

Talk to me MoI, Andrius, Spy, where are your heads at? How do you guys read UT and Peregrine?

I agree with you are Dreal. Disagree with you on GenX. And think calling Yume scum for lurking is ludicrous.

What do you think about vigging Flame?

--

So for instance Wraith is calling espy town in part for his choice when he says that scum would want the vigs and a couple other roles, but some of those were gone when espy made his choice.

Once I finish this catch-up I need to go review this as it is a very good point if accurate.

--

I really don't get why drealmerz is such a popular scum read

Then let me know if all the points I made in my first catch-up don’t resonate with you please.

--

Well now you are in the scum pile.

So let me be clear with you FA – you think Untrod picking as high in the draft order as he did chose the Treestump as Mafia for the WIFOM giggles?

[MagnaofIllusion]

because I'd rather just lynch DT

Yeah I know Math generates that feeling in people (I wanted to lynch Math when we were partners in Grey’s Mini Normal so badly) but I’m generally of the opinion that Titus isn’t a good Day 1 lynch if she isn’t obv-scum. Get a wagon going on GenX and I’ll work with you on de-hydraing the thread.

dude, treestump is a strong pick for scum.

Not really. I mean this is game theory disagreement so take it as you will but the strongest part of the Treestump ability is posting reads and thoughts after death. That doesn’t benefit scum at all given they’d be known scum.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I think as a scum player it is a similar defense as bussing. a kind of "why would I ever do that???" kind of thing

Yeah, but that is only going to take you so far if you get to the point of actually being suspected as scum. Especially when Town has "Whelp, even if I am wrong we still get Untrod's input in thread" to counter-act that WIFOM ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

shrug

I guess I'm just making the point that me taking treestump is a bs reason to townread me

Well to some degree I agree ...

I more have issues with the claimed reasons you are being scum-read and wanted to get input from FA ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

My current choices for who visits the Kill Zone with Goat – Maria, Toog, McMenno,Yume, Dreal (if not lynched).

Am very interested where Toog’s actual finalized reads fall.

@Tammy

– here’s a question for you … had Treestump and Neighborizor both been available at your pick which would you have chosen.

I like Skybird’s 1253 and they can be Town.

--

Ok now Titus’s head is giving me scum vibes for 1159. That post feels absolutely fake with the whole “Woe is me” stance.

@Titus

– please link to a couple games where UT was “obvious as Town and worth dying for”.

And move that to an official scum read with Math’s 1214.

This is an even worse post. In Shadowrun Mafia we had ways of impacting missions. To assume scum doesn't have a way to mess with neighborhoods is bad.

Given this is a completely open setup with no hidden powers makes the last sentence clearly absurd.

Why are you trying to compare this game (Fully Open Set-up) to Shadowrun which was a closed set-up with hidden mechanics and lack of flips? That’s not apples to oranges, that’s apples to gravel.

--

Gooosssssh andy we get it you're town

This is like the 3rd times you’ve said this specifically. Why?

--

Also, please do not wall post.
~GE

Unless you want me to rant about spam posters every time it happens it is probably best to not broach this subject again.

--

I'd like to play a mafia game where no phone posting is allowed.

I have made zero progress since last I said on my re-read. Not that anyone really cares (except I think scum would like me to because they want more reasons to try and mislynch me), but I still intend to do it and make a reads list, I've just been busy (explain to me why scum would do anything I did? oh right, because they're dumb noob-scum. *shakes head*)

really?! I can't just like, decide to put the watcher in whatever room I want to safeguard against their pre-plan of him clearing a scum-buddy? and then tell you all the next day what I did? it takes more coordination than that to not be a clusterfuck of confusion?

I can’t make heads or tails of this post. The first two parts are whining and pre-emptive defense. The last part ostensibly says that Dreal thinks the Watcher is scum and wants to put him in a Room to thwart him “clearing a partner” but that is rather pointless since the Watcher isn’t required to be in the room they watch.

@Dreal

– again why could you not explain your 4 claimed scum reads as of the time you made them?

--

I trust DT more than UT at the moment. This exchange between them is making me uneasy about UT.

Please elaborate because of the two I see UT as Town and reasonable while I don’t really see that from either DT head currently.

What specifically about the exchange has you uneasy about UT?

--

Skybird has a point in her 1000. If the only people in the same room as Tammy are Neighbors+Andrius, that would effectively out the hood. We'll have to think on that one. Or let Tammy recruit a couple people.

Given that Sir Cakez has clarified that everyone only sees who is in their specific room I don’t think this is true but I think it is a moot point – if scum are not in the Neighborhood they in all likelihood are going to be able to PoE the Neighborhood anyway after Night 1 just be seeing who isn’t in the rooms they are in.

What I meant was do you have any examples of drealmerz7, not of this in general.

No, but I thought that was a given since this is one of his first games on site. Hard to have a history of how someone plays here when they haven’t played here before …

My question to you is – do you think someone has to have an established pattern of behavior to be guilty of a specific scum-tell?

--

I'm going in the safe room choo choo

can someone get me up to speed

Nope. You need to be in the Kill Room.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Magna:
This is my solution for wall posts. Please use it.
~GE

Frankly - no.

I'm not changing how I post to accommodate your personal preferences until people stop spam-posting.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Andrius: I'd prefer you spoiler your walls.
Use the spoiler= tag.

Spoiler:

Put you content in here

@Magna:
This is my solution for wall posts. Please use it.

~GE

@Magna: you aren't even the problem, your walls are at least somewhat readable. It was Andrius's Neverending Wallpost that necessitated the spoiler tag solution.

Don't understand why you take such issue with something that didn't involve you to begin with.

~GE

[MagnaofIllusion]

Maybe MOI's town. I'm notorious for scumreading him early every single time then dismissing him as town later. Idk man idk. Game's tough.

~T

So Transcend – how can you be notorious for this when we have exactly two games together before this and you were scum in one of them? So we have exactly 1 game both as Town where you scum read me early incorrectly.

--

McMenno probably felt comfortable picking Vengeful because his scumbuddy Goatmeal got the vig and obviously they would never vig him

I want one of them lynched today and if we get a scum flip the other one needs to die immediately after

So make this make sense to me Spiffeh.

You think McMenno and Goat are scum buddies. You want one lynched today and with a scum flip a turbo lynch on the other.

And you are advocating a wagon on McMenno over Goat? Because that seems foolish as fuck for the following reasons based on your logic. If McMenno and Goat are scum partners you are wanting to give the Things two potential kills instead of zero (McMenno’s Vengeful which is a certainty if you lynch him plus Goats’ possible Vig shot if he isn’t blocked).

You lynch Goat first and you take away a Vig shot from your scum read and then either the Universal Backup or Back-up Vig (unless you scum read both of them as well) can kill McMenno in the Night. Thus depriving your scum reads of both attempts at taking out Town.

I'm understand you have other concerns but I'm sorta confused as they seem pretty inconsequential compared to the above ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

He said town then joined? No context?

@Spyrex

– here is the sequence Wraith is describing. After seeing your question I went and looked. Esp does not post between 645 and 716. However Spiffeh did vote Esp at 709 and provided some reasoning why Esp could be scum in 708. So evaluate for yourself how it unfolds.

I have a townreads on Spiffeh Espeonage and FA, FYI.
~GE

Actually, anyone that caused a lot of friction with regards to drafting roles I will probably townread out of the gates. So that means people like MoI. I think Espeon did that too.
~GE

VOTE: Espeonage

[MagnaofIllusion]

Also Spyrex since you are here ...

Gooosssssh andy we get it you're town

This is like the 3rd times you’ve said this specifically. Why?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Not a high priority target for me. MariaR doesn't seem scum to me, but am open to shooting her because she seems to be useless at the moment. Opinion open to change once she produces content. At the moment still prefer Yume above all else. Mcmenno is giving me content to read by, while Yume is doing fuck all.

1. You do understand you two don't get free reign to just shoot whoever you want, right?
2. Please show me the posts of McMenno's that are content you think you can sort his alignment with. I'm 100% interested in this.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Also, people should talk to me about my plan: #1035

Here's my thoughts on your plan - I don't really trust either you or DGB to be the person who puts a plan for Town together. You probably should just defer to Andrius on that end for as long as he is with us.

Sorry if that hurts your feelings but ... that's where I stand.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Tammy

– thanks for the insight into Neighborizor versus Treestump. Part of my concern with people attacking Untrod for taking it was the unspoken assumption that you would take it that I didn’t think was necessarily true.

--

1. I understand that, and that doesn't stop me from giving what I want as well. I'm fine with discussing a list to shoot within.
2. Mcmenno is looking slight town from his own actions. If scum he has shot himself in the foot, making a subpar move simply to make numbers equal again for him if scum. Therefore I don't think he is scum. The right move is to take him out via vig though if people want him dead, purely based on role. It'd salvage any negative effect of him retaliating. #1294, #1302 These posts line up with his choice of Vengeful, albeit being lazy. As I said, he's following through on the subpar choice instead of keeping it as a back up option. I would expect scum to try to play to the crowd and hope for the best instead of blatantly vote himself just so he can use the role. I am still open to shooting him as he's being detrimental, but I'd prefer Yume over Mcmenno. If he is scum he's already screwed his team over either way. (Which I don't think is likely)

1. Great.
2. Well I don’t see anything very Town about his posts so far. Which is a problem as he was specifically put on notice during the draft that he needed to be Obvtown. And yet we get what we see here. Which is not to my liking so far as far as demonstrating Town perspective.

I prefer multi-posting because I like keeping it neat

My issue is that constant multiposting artificially inflates the page count of games. The more multiposting the bigger the ballooning. A huge issue in MS games these days is inordinately long games. You can already see the effect long threads have – Maria has basically expressed that catching up 40 pages is too much for her. These days 100 page Day 1s are not unusual at all. During my first tour of duty a 100-150 page large game in full was more the norm.

So while some players may be adverse to actually reading I will take 1 post that has lots of break-outs and content over a string of 3-8 smaller posts with the same amount of content any day of the week.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So after dreal’s 1572 he’s still in my lynch pool but I know he’s not going today. Too many people on site are suckers for fluffy AtE (which is the make-up of that entire post). I’m sorry, for someone who has made of point about how precise wording should be (the whole consensus debate which is pretty stupid) the fact that he can’t explain his scum reads on his group just makes no sense. There’s a huge disconnect between being willing to argue over semantics at the depth and verbosity he does and yet not being able to articulate in the slightest why Andrius, Spyrex, PV and Spiff were scum as he posted in 857.

@Tammy

– I think you are giving way too much of a pass to Dreal. We should talk about your meta with him and if it involves observing his play over a number of games or comes from a limited

--

@Spiffeh

re 1482 – Really? You see that as anything but Null?

I'm scum but you join the wagon I've been leading the charge for the entire game?

I look forward to people trying to justify town reading you after that fantastic post

This. McMenno needs bullets.

--

Why are you acting like I am a threat to you UT? If you get lynched, you just turn into a stump and pester me forever. Yet, you seem afraid of being lynched. Why?

This is pretty damn scummy. Which head posted this?

Optimal power usage, agreement or non-agreement irrelevant has Tammy as treestump rather than forcing our resources to protect her.

Um, no? There are plenty of players for which the Treestump role would be very useful. You have said yourself that the Town is “full of leaders” who would make good Treestumps. Tammy isn’t the only one and this screams of reaching to justify your UT scum read in a scummy way.

Spiffeh is weak townlean so cool there. Andrius needs more but good for what I see. MoI is damn good scum so not inclined to townread early.

Oh, are Andrius or Spiffeh not good as scum? Do tell …

I thought that you used "inside knowledge" to buddy Titus meaning "Given UT is scum" from a confirmed angle.
I hadn't heard that phrase so I didn't realize it was a quote.

@All going to shut up and let Titus head drive since they are back from RL issues it seems and I work full time.

This smells like “Titus will not get as much suspicion as me”. Which is enough to put me over the top.

VOTE: DoubleTrouble

--

I really dislike Wraith picking a backup Vig after giving shit to McMenno.

Elaborate on why this makes Wraith scum.

To explain this, both these players are notorious for dying early as town. Add in the fact that both are attempting to be calm, controlled, voices of reason, and are natural leaders in their own right, they are high profile targets for night kills as town. If they are still around come day 3, and I'm still alive, my gut will be pinging hard.

So what you are saying is – you being the primary Protective role in the game will suspect Spyrex or I if we are alive Day 3 ….

Is that right?

--

The people who are townreading UT, need to really convince me that he is town, cause like. I see nothing town in his ISO, and usually I can say that some posts are townie or scummy in anyones ISO.

Or maybe you can explain why you scum read them. Because I don’t see scum intent in UT’s posts and the “I don’t see Town in his posts” is the kind of scum-face argument that your partner Gammagooey used in Kids Characters Mafia to attack me.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Wraith

– here’s my question about the plans you are laying out … are you taking into account Tammy wanting her Neighbors with her?

--

@Toog

– Kindly stop ignoring my question to you. Here I re-quoted for ease of reference for you.

I really dislike Wraith picking a backup Vig after giving shit to McMenno.

Elaborate on why this makes Wraith scum.

To explain this, both these players are notorious for dying early as town. Add in the fact that both are attempting to be calm, controlled, voices of reason, and are natural leaders in their own right, they are high profile targets for night kills as town. If they are still around come day 3, and I'm still alive, my gut will be pinging hard.

So what you are saying is – you being the primary Protective role in the game will suspect Spyrex or I if we are alive Day 3 ….

Is that right?

--

Along those lines I’d like to highlight the following little chapter of what I call “OMGUS MoI” from Double Trouble …

Why are you acting like I am a threat to you UT? If you get lynched, you just turn into a stump and pester me forever. Yet, you seem afraid of being lynched. Why?

This is pretty damn scummy. Which head posted this?

Optimal power usage, agreement or non-agreement irrelevant has Tammy as treestump rather than forcing our resources to protect her.

Um, no? There are plenty of players for which the Treestump role would be very useful. You have said yourself that the Town is “full of leaders” who would make good Treestumps. Tammy isn’t the only one and this screams of reaching to justify your UT scum read in a scummy way.

Spiffeh is weak townlean so cool there. Andrius needs more but good for what I see. MoI is damn good scum so not inclined to townread early.

Oh, are Andrius or Spiffeh not good as scum? Do tell …

I thought that you used "inside knowledge" to buddy Titus meaning "Given UT is scum" from a confirmed angle.
I hadn't heard that phrase so I didn't realize it was a quote.

@All going to shut up and let Titus head drive since they are back from RL issues it seems and I work full time.

This smells like “Titus will not get as much suspicion as me”. Which is enough to put me over the top.

VOTE: DoubleTrouble

Several questions get ignored and then we get posts like this …

Nah

UT, Goatmeal, Toog and one of MoI/Spyrex are likely scum.

MoI is scum. Was scum with him in 1800. I was loud and boisterous. Here I am trying to learn and listen and MoI is trying to take advantage. He isn't actually trying to read me he is looking for a mislynch.

-- Math

Very convenient that DT’s suspicions are 5 people who have all cast votes for them.

--

Vote: Spiffeh

I support wagons on DT, Errant, Spyrex.

So let me get this straight – you ‘support’ a Double Trouble wagon. Which exists at the time you posted this. And yet you vote Spiffeh which IIRC is completely a vanity wagon? Is that right.

I have a problem with the above wagon, I think these are three players that know very well how mathblade & Titus play and should know that neither player can be confidently read on Day 1, let alone a hydra of both. They are easy mislynches because they talk a lot, get paranoid, and if you hang on their every word instead of seeing the forest for the trees, it's easy to make BS cases on them.

-DGB

This … this is bad.

1. Assumption that both are “easy mislynches”. That’s so far from the truth for Titus I don’t understand why you would even try to float that. And my only experience with Math says she isn’t that either because we pretty much power-bussed each other as partners and she never got lynched.
2. Assumption that Titus can’t be read properly Day 1 – I know it is easily possible even when she is hydra’s – Shos’s GTA Mafia 2 game had Titus hydra being read properly and lynched Day 1 as scum (I was a Serial Killer that game and didn’t contribute to the lynch since she was not pushing me).

Skynird looks scum. More excuses not to play than me, LOL.

Also McMenno.

My bet with the current votecount is that top wagons are town, the scum doesn't need to bus. Just a note for the future.

-DGB

Yes this is scum DGB. If you had to pick a pool of the three easiest lynches in the game it would, at the point this was posted, be McMenno, Skybird and Yume. And DGB’s scum reads come crashing down on that pool. Coming on the heels of trying to sell Titus and Math as “easy mislynch targets” this is scummy as fuck.

VOTE: Goatmeal

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'd ACTUALLY prefer not to redirect at all. but I'm open

Sorry you don’t get that right. You redirecting to a room means you can’t busdrive in theory. Of course that requires you to actually redirect and not be scum partners with your target.

Busdriving is bad all the way around from a Town standpoint and it needs to never happen.

--

Goat meal just looks VI to me right now. Don't know what the fuss is all anout

DGB is not a VI. Period. And neither is Ran.

Why would you even float that as a thought? Furthermore why didn’t you answer this question –

The people who are townreading UT, need to really convince me that he is town, cause like. I see nothing town in his ISO, and usually I can say that some posts are townie or scummy in anyones ISO.

Or maybe you can explain why you scum read them. Because I don’t see scum intent in UT’s posts and the “I don’t see Town in his posts” is the kind of scum-face argument that your partner Gammagooey used in Kids Characters Mafia to attack me.

I’m not kidding on this Fire …

--

Vigging a treestump is a full reward no risk proposition. The downside to vigging is the target is dead.

Vigging a treestump is essentially just public copping you UT.

~Titus

This would be great in theory if, and only if, the Vig resources were unlimited. They are not. So unless you think UT is scum (and he isn’t) vigging him is a pretty stupid idea.

Of course you are scum reading UT but I expect that Titus Town would understand it is far from the optimal play in this open setup.

And UT isn’t scum. He’s not playing like UT scum.

--

Wait do we have confirmation on if scum can use abilities and the factional? That might make.this waaaay easier if they cant

Yes it would be. Unfortunately …

17. If a player has access to a factional ability, they may use it and individual abilities in the same night.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Moi even if you break my heart i approve of your jib cuts

Lol.

I didn't think the Ur-quan (or whatever that creature from Star Control in your avatar is actually called) had hearts to break.

[MagnaofIllusion]

This is pretty damn scummy. Which head posted this?

Oh, are Andrius or Spiffeh not good as scum? Do tell …

These are both questions. The fact that you want to pretend they aren't matters little to me.

Answer them.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Disregard the first question then, I see you answered it.

[MagnaofIllusion]

For instance, your comment suggesting you're uncertain as to my stance on UT suggests a certain level of ignorance while reading my ISO. Agree or not, it should be readily apparent to any soul interested in analyzing our opinions that both Math and I agree on UT scum.

Yet, in the same post, you quoted my reads. So, how could you doubt that I thought UT was scum? Like seriously.

~T

Um I'd like you to point out where I ever said you were Town reading UT. Because that never happened.

When you talk about doubt-casting and mud-slinging this post has it in spaded, BTW.

[MagnaofIllusion]

The bolded suggests that you doubt my scumread. You then, say I do. Doublespeak. You state that I should know that the move isn't optimal, because vigs should only be used on scumreads.

Your post is incomprehensible. The premise seems to be "It's an inefficient use to vig someone unless they are a scumread. Titus maybe scumreads UT, but shouldn't advocate a UT vig shot? Despite UT living if town."

That is why I doubt you are reading to understand but reading to discredit instead.

~Titus

Bullshit. You tried to sell the Vigging UT has no downside and all upside. Which is crap given we don't have unlimited Vigs - 3 to 4 (depending on whether the Universal Backup inherits a Goatmeal or McMenno's role) is what we have to work with. And unless we carefully orchestrate Night actions we might not even get full use of them.

I would expect, if you were Town, you'd understand this and acknowledge that even if you have a scum read on UT (which for the record makes no sense to me from where I sit) that deciding to waste a finite resource just to prove that is piss poor play.

The fact that you don't and are slinging mud over and over while trying to construct some narrative about how I'm unable to post in a readable way is why I think you are scum Double.

[MagnaofIllusion]

But you see if we use limited resources to hurt limited resources two negatives is a positive

Are you secretly Doctor Johnny Fever?

[MagnaofIllusion]

But you see, we should never cop anyone scummy because vigs are a finite resource and scum/scummy town could use a vote.

I can snark too, but mine is accurate.

~Titus

Paging Strawman Doctor ... Paging Strawman Doctor ... we a patient that is critically injured thanks to Double Trouble ...

Seriously this is what you think passes for accuracy? Comparing a generic scenario to this specific game and trying to say that it is meaningful in the least?

[MagnaofIllusion]

can we just kill it instead of trying to engage with it

literally nothing but scummy gibberish coming from that slot

Yes.

VOTE: DoubleTrouble

[MagnaofIllusion]

If I am right, scum get silenced. If I am wrong, UT gets a head check that deliberately being a dick, avoiding scumhunting, and OMGUSing is not protown behavior and he can act like his role pm dictates he should. Civilly and hunting scum.

The irony here is that the behavior you are claiming UT has displayed is directly coming from your slot.

You OMGUSed me, have been subtly insulting me in an attempt to downplay my input and your scum-hunting has resulted in five candidates who all share the same trait - voting you at some point today.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Back from V/LA brought on 24 hours early thanks to Tiger attack …

Toog is going to be the lynch today. That much is clear. Andy and Wraith need to get Room Assignments and Night actions laid out so we move to the Room Phase.

Not voting Toog to L-1 so the above coordination can happen.

Nevermind – Fire decided to be his usual self and hammer before Andy and Wraith finalized the plan. You might as well replace in on Firebringer since you are basically shitposting …

--

IRT Wraith: He picked a killing role after giving shit to someone who picked a killing role. Seemed a bit hypocritical to me.

There are significant mechanics differences between the Strongman Vengeful and the Vig / back-up Vigs that show this is a very surface level analysis aimed at “catching a discrepancy” as opposed to actually looking for scum. Glad you volunteered for rope today and will pass the Doc role on to Maria who has a chance to be Town and actually protect Town.

--

Look at UT/

Moi. No effort to determine what I feel or why I feel it. Just discrediting.

They've both played with me before. They know I steamroll late game.

I’m bolding and quoting to show exactly how crappy and incorrect Double’s statements are for everyone not DT to see. For the record here’s a review of my thoughts on the slot –

Double Trouble’s entrance sets off warning bells for me with 680. Especially with Math’s explanation at 739. And 743 rings absolutely hollow given that there was plenty of non-mechanical scum hunting going on in the thread when it was posted.

Ok now Titus’s head is giving me scum vibes for 1159. That post feels absolutely fake with the whole “Woe is me” stance.

@Titus

– please link to a couple games where UT was “obvious as Town and worth dying for”.

And move that to an official scum read with Math’s 1214.

This is an even worse post. In Shadowrun Mafia we had ways of impacting missions. To assume scum doesn't have a way to mess with neighborhoods is bad.

Given this is a completely open setup with no hidden powers makes the last sentence clearly absurd.

Why are you trying to compare this game (Fully Open Set-up) to Shadowrun which was a closed set-up with hidden mechanics and lack of flips? That’s not apples to oranges, that’s apples to gravel.

Why are you acting like I am a threat to you UT? If you get lynched, you just turn into a stump and pester me forever. Yet, you seem afraid of being lynched. Why?

This is pretty damn scummy. Which head posted this?

Optimal power usage, agreement or non-agreement irrelevant has Tammy as treestump rather than forcing our resources to protect her.

Um, no? There are plenty of players for which the Treestump role would be very useful. You have said yourself that the Town is “full of leaders” who would make good Treestumps. Tammy isn’t the only one and this screams of reaching to justify your UT scum read in a scummy way.

Spiffeh is weak townlean so cool there. Andrius needs more but good for what I see. MoI is damn good scum so not inclined to townread early.

Oh, are Andrius or Spiffeh not good as scum? Do tell …

Clearly I’ve been looking at the slots play and trying to understand motivations. Wrapping up in blanket of “MoI isn’t trying to sort me” is a pile of garbage. Furthermore anyone can read through DT’s responses (or really, lack thereof) to my inquiries and decide which slot isn’t actually trying to sort the other.

Furthermore Titus should know very well that scum MoI doesn’t bother trying to actively sort Town Titus in a Large Game. He just quasi-buddies up to her and supports when she tries to mislynch Town. That fact that DoubleTrouble shows not the an ounce of thinking in this direction and just lays down “MoI is scum because he is scared of us late-game” supports my thoughts on the slot.

--

yeah get that false meta the fuck out of here

i bet ten dollars i can get you hanged before you get us hanged

Yeah, Transcend is probably scum. This post isn’t talking to a scum read.

And the copious cred grab “OMG LOOK WE ARE WAGONNING MY SCUM READ I ROCK” posts add to that read. Especially since they are replacing any actual attempt to find any Toog partners .

--

@ SirCakez - Can Lars 1.) choose to redirect someone during the Room Phase and then 2.) at Night also use his bus-drive ability?

(I always thought yes, but now I think it is important that everyone know for sure)

Cakez has already answered this by the time you posted …

5. drealmerz DOES NOT Bus Drive under any circumstances. @mod: Can the Bus Driver use both of his abilities in one night? Or only one at a time?

One at a time

Are you not actually reading the thread? This question and answer directly impacts your role.

[MagnaofIllusion]

well yeah, but it seems like a large portion of the game isn't actually reading any of this so what's the point in even typing it out

So post game I can point to it and tell people who didn't listen "I told you so"

[MagnaofIllusion]

House-keeping item – I Sabotaged Goatmeal last Night as I didn’t want them Vigging anyone given they showed up in the Lab. They didn’t attempt to take any action but are scum anyway and are getting lynched today.

Did anyone besides the Lab get any actual reads on Thing candidates from their Room PTs? Frankly the amount of “Oh, we hung out and made smores and sang campfire songs” I’m seeing is very not helpful. Just because Goatmeal handed themselves to us on a platter doesn’t mean there wasn’t scum-hunting to be done overnight.

--

Lets not get too many votes on.
They could selfhammer.

This. Maria gets some “common sense” points for unvoting after this post. On the other hand –

VOTE: goatmeal

well ran and friend didn't do what they were asked

so~~~~

VOTE: goatmeal

Proven in a lie

VOTE: Goatmeal

One of these is almost assuredly scum hoping the day gets ended quickly before plans are put together.

--

though espeonage nightkill stinks, methinks

Use your words and explain what you think stinks about it. Whether I support Spiffeh’s push to have you shot will hinge on your response.

--

VOTE: Wraith

Um whut?

--

Transcend quarantined me

So clarify – you now have a PT with them?

--

If Errantparabola or Creature want too they can but I don't find anything we talked about share worthy.

So there were no reads worth sharing discussed at all?

btw I'ma just say it now instead of wating

Me Creature and erra should always be in a room together alone. Because scum can never kill us It's what we talked about

So your read on Creature and Errant is strong Town? Also this, I think, would preclude DT transferring their vest to you as that requires sharing a room.

@Creature and Errant

– same question to you regarding the other two members of the room.

--

McMenno claimed he tried to go to the Radio Room, so drealmerz did do as instructed.

This is predicated on McMenno and Dreal not being partners covering for each other. Which is unproven at this point.

He was pretty open about several things whenever I asked. Also if he was scum it was the perfect opportunity to kill me and plausibly "get away" with it, since he was alone with me and could have used the scum Strongman shot and then bussed Goatmeal.

Um how would he have “gotten away with it” if you believe Dreal is Town? Dreal Town knows where he put McMenno. You ending up dead means for certain that the Strongman kill was used which requires the target to be in the same room. Hypo-Scum McMenno’s partners can’t fake an alibi for McMenno in any room that has Town in it and PoE would pretty much nail down who the Strongman was.

--

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Creature

– regarding 2495 – There are a few holes in your theory (mainly which revolve around blocking / busdive abilities from outside the room preventing Errant or Maria from properly functioning ) but as long as you have strong Town reads on Errant and Maria it is fairly solid since the holes leave room to PoE who caused the failure.

Do you have strong reads on them?

Currently only have a decent townread on
Wraith
drealmerz7
Spiffeh
Andrius

I’m guessing not …

--

Because fuck rules!
I never agreed to do as you want.

This needs to die sooner rather than later IMO.

--

okay, so espeonage was a fairly low profile player - so why wasn't someone killed like andrius, yourself, or tammy? your rooms weren't being watched, and you couldn't have been doc'd. so the only reason left is role-related. were scum really that afraid of being tracked?

@Spiffeh / Wraith

– I’m officially on-board with a McMenno Vig tonight. This response is a bad mixture of WIFOM and Burden of Proficiency.

[MagnaofIllusion]

As a reminder so it doesn’t get lost in the planning discussion –

Lets not get too many votes on.
They could selfhammer.

This. Maria gets some “common sense” points for unvoting after this post. On the other hand –

VOTE: goatmeal

well ran and friend didn't do what they were asked

so~~~~

VOTE: goatmeal

Proven in a lie

VOTE: Goatmeal

One of these is almost assuredly scum hoping the day gets ended quickly before plans are put together.

--

I strongly think shooting McMenno is a mistake ftr. Y'all seem to be convinced.

Shooting UT, Spyrex, MoI or 1 shot VT are better shots.

For the record Double Trouble scum means that this group has at most 1 Thing among them, if not all Town.

--

I'd like to be given the choice on whether to direct someone or not, and to where, and then work from there the following Day (it helps my scumhunting and at this point I don't trust many) - I'd tell who I put where if it seemed pertinent, which it probably would be, but, I think it'd allow for more avenues of scum-hunting if it wasn't told what I was doing beforehand.

Please elaborate on who you being able to move someone would help your scum-hunting. I’m very curious as to your answer.

Also – who are your scum reads after flips today?

--

[MagnaofIllusion]

Okay, well for a start, 2494 was scum MoI. He's looks for opportunities as scum, and the part where there's scum in me, MeMenno or Trans trying to end the day early is dreadful.
I haven't seen anything from him that looks even half decent as if he was town.

Yes, this is pretty bad.

So you are saying that directly after Andrius stated that "we needed time to get planning together and that putting too many votes on Goat was bad" you three all piling on votes is pure Town intent play and should not be read as possible scum motivated play? I need to be clear if that is what you are communicating.

As to "I haven't seen anything from him that looks Town" you can go to the scum pool for that. You aren't a Gammagooey alt are you? Because the irony of Gamma trying that exact same attack as scum in back to back games against me would be delicious.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MoI doing 10/10 work...

MoI always plays shit as scum, and this is a prime example.
He just tries to post larger looking posts to come across as town, it's pretty cringe worthy actually.

So you don't want to answer the question and throw insults. Good to know.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Okay, lets play a game.
Hold your hand up. With your left Index finger, count to 3 using your right hand fingers (and thumb). That's right, it's no where near a lynch!
You were saying that it looks like we were hoping for a quick lynch before a plan can be put into place... With 3 votes.
These were your words, and yeah I think that you pushing for it as a scum motivation is terrible. We both know how scum act more than not, and we both know that your comment is garbage.

Great counter argument to my comment of you not doing anything town like. Lets face it, you're trying to coast by.

Classic. Just classic.

1SHot VT - "Three votes is nowhere near a lynch so you are scumzors"

I love that you ignore the fact that your three votes were not the first on Goatmeal. Critical bit of information there you seem to want to exclude. If you had bothered to fact-check you'd have noticed that there were 4 other votes made on Goatmeal before you three showed up. Oops - lots closer to getting Goatmeal to L-1 than you want to present here. Now Maria did unvote so your triple votes do only place them at L-4 which is enough of a cushion that simply the act of me bringing up your questionable votes will stem any additional stupid votes.

So back again to my question that in your puffing your chest and fluffery you avoided - are you stating it was pure Town play to string together those votes when there is not reason to rush the wagon?

Because scum has motivation to cut the planning short. And scum has motivation to make absolutely sure that they are in the "correct" place for VCA purposes.

The last bit is more grand-standing of course. I don't need to point out my Town oriented play - it is there for everyone to see.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So you are saying that directly after Andrius stated that "we needed time to get planning together and that putting too many votes on Goat was bad" you three all piling on votes is pure Town intent play and should not be read as possible scum motivated play?

I need to be clear if that is what you are communicating.

So you don't want to answer the question and throw insults. Good to know.

You didn't direct a question to me there, you just made yourself look like you are doing something.

For those reading along at home ask yourself if the bolded is or is not a question.

Hint - it is. A question that 1SHot appears allergic to answering but a question all the same.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Who is doing what at night day after day after day

Just kill me now

Don't worry - that rope is coming soon enough ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOD – I’ll be V/LA from basically now until Monday morning for my usual weekend family duties.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Makes much more sense that MoI as scum would hit Espeonage with a Saboteur because Espeonage was a tracker and killed to cover it up. That way if Espeonage lived he has no results and if he dies then all is well that ends well. If MoI is scum I would probably suspect an Espeonage saboteur not DGB but Espeonage isn't here to CC.

Quick phone post -

I want to bring this to everyone's attention as I think it explicitly shows why I have a problem with DT's posting. This post shows demonstrates to me that they aren't actually trying to sort me in any way but are simply forming their posts to conform with their "MoI is scum" read. Because this post makes zero sense.

1. DT surmises I am scum.
2. DT theorizes that scum chose to kill Esp to cover up that I blocked Esp in case they survived.

The above line of thought makes zero sense from an actual logical basis.

Hypo-scum MoI knows that Esp is being targetted for the Nightkill and thus has zero reason to Sabotage them. Why you ask? Because there is only one way that Esp could be protected from a Nightkill attempt - Andrius's Jailkeeping ability. Even if hypo-scum MoI didn't know what Andrius was going to do with the Jailkeep (and I did given the Neighbors coordinated Night actions given the threat represented by Goatmeal coming into the Lab without invitation) then hypo-scum MoI knows the only way Esp survives is if Andrius Jailkept Esp. Which would roleblock Esp anyway.

So this whole line of thought by DT makes no sense to be coming from an honest scum-hunting perspective. I'll take arguments whether it is a DT scum perspective or a DT "I'm just so confirmbias tunneling I might as well be scum" perspective from everyone. I lean the first since I don't ever recall seeing Town Titus playing that badly as Town.

[MagnaofIllusion]

really don't want Magna with Tammy and this makes me feel a hell of a lot better about things.

@Tammy / Spiffeh / Andrius

- thoughts on this and sacrificing Daytalk for Day 3?

Personally I don't care what makes DT feel better given my read on the slot but I'd like to here your perspectives.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Mainly phone posting today.

Has Errant checked in? I don't recall seeing him post and would like to see what his room Watch results are.

@Andrius and Wraith

- at this point I think only one of you needs to be laying out the plan in thread to prevent the sort of excuses both Peregrine and GenX are using about not complying. I suggest Wraith be the leader on that front going forward.

I question anyone who says Peregrine's defection was absolutely lynch-worthy who didn't have any interest in hanging GenX for his defection given his co-opted the plan much more than Peregrine's did.

My vote will be on GenX or Dreal. I've laid out exactly why Dreal is scum in prior days but I want to address his and GenX's end of Day "butting of heads". I've shared this with the Neighborhood but I'd like everyone to comment - I think it looks staged. Look at all the times Dreal has chastised players for "Not being a team" in his ISO. Ask yourself - does someone who really believes the stance he is portraying behave like he did with GenX at the end of day yesterday? I don't think so.

Likewise GenX's Quarantine posting last Night didn't do anything to alter my read on their slot. More on that when I have more time and better access. Spiffeh and I both think his Toog Day 1 play is very, very weak in regards to actually pushing the wagon and looks much more like distancing. Then Toog goes Suicide Squad and GenX is too eager to claim credit for the lynch / wagon even before the flip.

@Kennels People

- did GenX share my full reads list last Night?

[MagnaofIllusion]

they did not!

This more or less cements GenX as scum for me. More around 4 or 5 tonight when I stop to eat.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Hey Titus

What's with the changed approach

I thought i was lock town

Gamma is being an idiot

I'll quote on hydra when off of work

VOTE: PV

Also want to highlight the notTown approach in this vote.

P5 was not in GenX's claimed scum read in the PT last night. Those were myself / McMenno / Titus.

No reasoning given with the vote. So the assumption has to be because P5 went against the plan.

But GenX did the exact same thing yet expected their reasoning to be accepted.

Said reasoning also applies to P5 as later demonstrated.

Town GenX should have thought this. Instead he hops on a policy vote which he later decries when they are applied to them.

Will be voting GenX today.

Wraith - start formulating a Nightplan format please. Also I did not act last night since I was blocked and nothing could change that fact.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So I have about an hour or so to of WIFI while eating before hitting the road again. So let’s start with why GenX’s handling of the Neighborhood is scummy.

First a recap of the PT –

I shared with the Neighborhood that I got Quarantined first thing. I then opened posting in the PT by saying that my Neighbors and I were very interested to see why GenX chose to bust the plan and what they thought they would get out of the PT that was worth risking being roped.

Both Gamma and Trans responded “It was the plan”.

I responded to that by quoting the end of Day post by Spiffeh that showed Wraith’s 3239 which specifically showed it wasn’t the plan since GenX was supposed to help clear the Kennels.

Transcend’s response was “I read 2929 and didn’t bother to check to see if it changed”.

We spend some time discussing how incredulous I am that Transcend specifically could be that lazy as I know he isn’t stupid. His response was “It’s not a big deal anyway”.

They then ask for my reads (other than themselves). My response is “Given my read on you and the fact you aren’t sharing your reads why do you expect me to share mine?”

Transend’s response is “Have a vote tomorrow and your neighbors are all morons”.

My response to that is “Threatening me is hardly going to yield good results.”

Gamma shares that their scum-reads are “MoI / McMenno / Titus”. Transcend says “Maybe you can change my mind”.

I proceed to give a full reads list with every player still alive. I also specifically say I’m curious what he will do with that reads list.

Transcend asks “did you scum read us before he broke the plan?”.

I respond in the affirmative stating that I agreed with Spiffeh Night 1 that his play looked suspect and he might have been distancing from Toog that turned into bussing.

Thread locks …

--

So the take-away is this - I am supposedly a scum read for GenX. I’ve just given him a full reads list that if he really thinks is scum probably is a great tool to analyze and look for partners.

Town GenX had 12 hours to take that information and provide it to his roommates for their analysis of my reads. He didn’t do that.

Both the Lab and Neighbors can attest that I relayed the limited information I got from the PT (specifically that I was there and GenX’s three naked scum reads) with them along the way. Titus specifically suggested I lay a trap for GenX by offering to compromise on Titus (which I sorta did by putting Titus in a scum pool that was “Only can be scum if GenX is Town”).

Now today UT has specifically stated that GenX did not share my reads. He was in the Kennels with UT, Spyrex, Spiffeh and Skybird. None of which are in his supposed scum pool. Why does Town GenX not share my reads as a means of getting others to place their eyeballs on them to help sway people not scum-reading me or to allow those who are more information to help string me up?

I think the logical conclusion is thus – he’s not Town who was wanting information to help sort me.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Could I get some feedback on 3563? I mean I think I’m making points that should be resonating with players and yet it feels like I’m being ignored. Maybe that’s just the nature of phone skimming but that’s where I am.

Spiffeh

– Do you want back in the Lab for getting a more solid read on Maria / Errant? I can take a night elsewhere if you do.

@Wraith

– I’ve made plenty of posts over the last two days about what I see as scum motivated play in Dreal and I’m not sure why you seem to be downplaying pressure on him as simply “a wagon from nowhere”.
VOTE: GenX

Dreal’s latest bout of “try to undermine the validity of Tammy’s Townread on Peregrine” from around page 147 is scummy. If for some reason we don’t lynch GenX today I’ll be on Dreal.

--

Magna says that it's odd that we are scumreading PV when we said Titus/McMenno/MoI
One flipped town you idiot.
~GE

Way to dodge the important point about the vote being that it makes no sense from a Town GenX perspective and try to boil it down to “Oh, McMenno is Town so PV was my obvious next subject”
Care to point to where your Peregrine suspicion is supported in your ISO?

--

Also we still need Errant to report on visitors to the Lab.

Lab visitors as planned.

Titus he means who used Night actions and visited the Lab last Night.

--

MoI if you're town don't let transcend's shenanigans at the yesterDay fool you. Look at it. I informed everyone of my position in regards to DOUBLE TROUBLE. Transcend inputs himself into the topic forcing discussion/reaction from me (as soon as he said something about it I should have just been like "response not necessary, I was informing all about my position on DT, there's nothing to discuss, move along" - but transcend's attitude rubs me hard the wrong way and so I engaged when I probably shouldn't have. I don't know how you view it as sooo egregiously "contradictory to my stance." Can you elaborate on that a bit more?

I can certainly try. Again you’ve made comments several times that to my read are chastising players from not working together as Town or explaining that approaching things logically is how you think things are best handled. Examples …

I have no issue with this. I have issue with someone using the word "consensus" in the same line as "do as you're fucking told." I am weary of our ability to work together when shit like that is said.

I usually find what works best is just make logical cases for your scum/town leans. Emotional/ego appeal won't work with me.

The wagon on toog feels very opportunistic. This is not how you team-work.

andrius, play like a team-mate or prepare to get a shitstorm from me, that is not how you play this game and I'm done with your shit

So what looks to my eyes to be a completely emotional and not at all logical blowup / exchange with GenX at the end of Day 2 rings very false given the above.

games was boring WAAYYY before that

So you find the concept of lynching Things on back to back days boring because it isn’t done in a way you approve of? Seriously this is terrible …

PV starts to gain heat and seem like the likely lynch (even if it is early and votes are minimal, if you're reading the game LIKE YOU SHOULD BE), and in steps GX, whose role and WIM (if both he PV and scum I am talking) have less OOMPF than PVs (sure you can argue MacReady is a more powerful role in general, but in this game with this setup with this The Plan™ stuff going on, not really.) It looks like PV might go down, transcend (I don't think GE was in on this suicide decision, but who knows!) throws himself in front of the train.

You do understand that GenX “threw himself under the bus” in the Room selection phase when he chose to Quarantine me, right? I mean selling that somehow there is any Universe were GenX’s play after the thread opened is some play Peregrine is absurd and I’m not sure how you are even entertaining it at all.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Moi:
Did genx at some point today say something about your alignment without mentioning the read list

What do you mean today? As in the main thread? Our specific PT was only last Night. And there he specifically said I was a scum read and never mentioned how, if anyway, my reads list impacted his read.

I'm kinda confused about the question.

But on another topic - I think when I have more computer time we need to have some quality time. I've had a Town read on you from the moment that Toogs flipped scum based because he dropped his "Spyrex is scum if he is alive Day 3". But the constant refrain of "MoI is making me nervous for reasons I can't explain" is starting to make me a bit apprehensive.

So I want some time before today's lynch to hash things you with you so I can solidify my Town read completely or punt you back to "Meh" land.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Willing to lynch MoI, Titus, or maybe dreal
VOTE: Titus
~GE

Spyrex this is the closest I can find to any read on me today. No mention of my reads list in his ISO before I broached the subject.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Wraith / FireAssassin

– I would like Fire Assassin to be placed in a room with GenX or Dreal (or both if they both survive the lynch today) with FA blocking either GenX and Dreal or GenX / Dreal and himself.

--

@MoI: I've probably been getting tunnel vision on drealmerz because I've had him filed as VI for a while now, like McMenno.

Dreal is not a VI. Not anywhere close. That term gets thrown around often and too carelessly. The vast majority of players are not VIs.

--

I'd prefer if you stayed there with the protection roles as I am commuter and I doubt scum would risk killing me at this juncture (and I have at least one shot left so I'd be fine either way).

Make sense.

--

And yea we can set aside some time cause i know how sketchy he looks town but ive just got this feeling is...but you look town and I've just got this feeling and i cant shake it.

So shake me like a Polaroid picture so it goes away

In case you missed it look at 3760 for this.

Also I want more time in general. Can you flesh out your reads on the playerlist in one place for me so I can question you about them? I’ll do the same for you.

--

Would only lynch him out of policy since 1. he's been horrendous this whole game 2. his role can negatively effect the Humans.

In this thread we determine that Transcend thinks only Town players can be “horrendous” …

--

Woah woah woah. No. THIS is terrible misrep (intentional or not?)

I find the ACTUALITY of lynching Things on back to back Days a great accomplishment, well done team!

I find the way we went about figuring out who to lynch (the formula, not even a concept) boring.

Is it supposed to be fun just lynching baddies? No, the fun comes from the rest of the play surrounding the deaths. Dynamic social interaction and the scum-hunting. For me anyway. An easy analogy that expresses my position: fishing.

Anyone can cast a net and drag it through the water and come up with fish. It's easy, you get your food, it serves a purpose, I suppose, but it's very clinical and not something I'd do as an enjoyable past-time. So I don't do that. I DO go fishing. Rod and reel and canoe. My skill and abilities (and luck too!) against a deft prey that, even if I've got it on my hook, pulling hard on the line, and almost seeming like a sure thing, it's not a caught fish until it is in the boat (it's like that stretch from L-3-hammer - ahhh cmon cmon cmon! BOOM!), and only then do you get that "AHHHHH YES! GOT EM! THAT WAS FUN!" feeling.

This is a large amount of verbiage that still says the same thing – I don’t like how the game has been played.

Ok, that’s great. I don’t care. Complaining about the path to two scum lynches being boring is akin to the people who complain about 6-3 Pro Football games being boring. I enjoy a game where I use whatever tools I have to find and hang scum. Period. Whether it is from deep diving into posts and psychologically analyzing players to find scum intent or whether it is from a well laid out mechanical plan that boxes in scum and causes them to make risky mistakes.

So again – your “this game is boring” and general complaining about “how your role is not your own” I find are more likely to come from scum who is chapped about being put in a bad hole by Day 3 and not having the freedom to help their cause as they feel they should be able to.

Then be glad you're not in my mind. It's whacked up here sometimes. I laugh at your balking at that "absurd" theory. You haven't seen anything if you think that is an absurd theory. Sometimes my whacked theories are right too!

Examine all possibilities. and JUST because someone is examining or presenting a possibility, doesn't mean they think it HAS to be true, it's just good to have all possibilities on the table when looking at your options.

Your premise (That GenX threw themselves under the bus because PV was getting pressure) is junk since you are allocating intent (defending PV) to actions that all took place during the Night2 Room Phase. Your premise surmises that GenX scum could perfectly forsee the danger his partner PV would face for sending in the wrong room choice and thus made a Room Phase move to place himself in danger by also breaking the plan. So instead of having only one scum in danger from plan breaking your theory says scum went out of their way to place two members in danger. As I said - junk.

The old axiom “Garbage in garbage out” applies and no amount of “hey, it’s just a theory” covers for the inherent flaw in your train of thought.

Thus your posting looks like “looking for ways to link GenX to Peregrine” as opposed to Town looking for reasons why things happen.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Really? You can't see bored town in me? Really?

I’m trying to give you the benefit of the doubt as a player based on Tammy’s comments in the Neighborhood. I don’t generally like to assess people as bad players immediately upon my first game played with them.

No. THAT is junk. FFS, they've got daychat, and YES OF COURSE GX could forsee the danger of PV sending in the wrong room choice, even if they didn't have /use daychat to coordinate. Your unwillingness to allow a potential option on the table is highly suspicious.

I'm not looking for anything except POSSIBILITIES.

Titus makes me at ease again with posts like that.

No, it isn’t. Frankly the fact you think scum would choose to actively endanger two players when they could only endanger one is absurd on its face. I’m unwilling to consider patently stupid ideas. Consider that scum-worthy if you wish …

[MagnaofIllusion]

Um Titus this is right in the rule-set (hidden by a Spoiler but not hard to find).

I mean Dreal seems like scum for other reasons but knowing scum have Daychat is hardly a tell when it is publicly established ...

Scum have confirmed daychat.

[MagnaofIllusion]

But Gen X could make the kill!
Am I missing something here?

Could he not make the kill?
YOU CAN MAKE KILLS IF YOU ARENT IN THE SAME ROOM.
EVEN SO THERES A FRICKING STRONGMAN THAT SCUM COULD USE SO I COULD STILL KILL CREATURE WITHOUT HAVING GEN DEVIATE FROM PLAN

GenX was in Kennels. FA and Dreal were in the Radio room with Creature. The Kennels were locked Down. (all this is based on Wraith’s summary of claims with no dispute).

Titus’s theory is that you were supposed to block Dreal and Creature, I was supposed to block you and GenX was Locked Down in the Kennels.

GenX could not have used a Strongman kill on Creature. That much is clear since they were in different rooms. Both dreal and you being blocked means, aside from use of the Strongman ability, you couldn’t kill Creature either.

However GenX chose to pre-empt my block on you by Quarantining me. This she feels supports her theory about the three of you being aligned.

It isn’t a perfect theory – we can’t know if the Strongman kill has been used to my knowledge and Peregrine breaking plan to show up with you and Dreal means he could have made the kill himself also. As could anyone else not in the Kennels who wasn't blocked. But you can’t say it is a completely unreasonable theory.

--

@MoI: Fire should be with drealmerz and Peregrine and block both.

I'm just going to give input to Andrius and we'll go with whatever Andrius's final outline is.

Meh. I agree there are other blocks that can be used but FA blocking himself is public and can’t be co-opted which him consistently agreeing to gives him Town points in my book.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Underlined is why this just pings scum SO HARD for me. I made myself clear, and here is a mis-rep.

COULD - they absolutely fucking could - the amount of WIFOM here is clear, and dismissing like you are is BAD PLAY.

The stupid idea is not keeping all options in view and dismissing anything as "oh scum wouldn't do THAT."
They could and they would if they thought they could get away with it.

I mean, you're doing right now for them exactly what they would count on and WHY they WOULD 1.) consider doing it and 2.) actually do it (especially if someone knows, say, YOU, if you're not scum with them, and how you would view it and KNOW you'd be defending them, ya know, like Tammy is for PV.) If you're town that HAS to be clear to you and you can't discount the possibility without making me think you've made a mistake and trying to help you play better.

Arrogant, I know. It wouldn't be the first time.

There are tons of things that COULD happen. Anything in you can imagine "could" happen. Hanging on to "could"s that are not reasonable at all is stupid play. Sorry if that hurts your ego regardless of alignment but them's the breaks.

Here are some facts for you -

Two scum have been hung for specifically going out of their way to not follow the plan (among other factors) or stating they will. That's 40% of the scum team. That you suggest scum would actively go out of their way Night 2 to make sure that two more of their members were likely to be roped short term is banking on scum being stupid. And P5 and Transcend aren't stupid. In fact you can read some of Transcend's scum games and see his victories that don't come from making stupid moves.

GenX and P5 are going hung sooner or later this game simply for the WIFOM you've pointed out. Especially when Town runs out of better Thing candidates. So again - if you want to float a theory that 80% of the scum team actively chose by Day 3 to volunteer for the noose go ahead. Just don't expect people who understand that Moon Logic most of the time doesn't apply to buy in or not scum read your posting.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Titus makes me at ease again with posts like that.

okay, everyone just STOP listening to titus

The speed of this whiplash has be rethinking my GenX vote over dreal BTW ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

? Doesn't hurt my ego at all. Does my view of you being foolish hurt yours?

Lol. You don't know me from Adam I'm sure but I think half the player list can attest the answer is a resounding "No".

[MagnaofIllusion]

those on my HS, at this point, if they'd been on the fence about me, would be going

"oh okay that's probs town drealmer at this point, he's seen the stupidity and can't abide any more"

but, of course you have to believe me to believe me

Do you think anyone cares about Homesite meta? Hell a not small portion of the the MS population thinks meta in general is pointless.

Not to mention that "anger" AtE is pretty easily faked ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

At this point I'm wanting to hear results from Errant before we go any further.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOD - I'm V/LA from 4:30pm EST today until Monday morning as usual.

Spyrex

- set aside some time Monday for our tet-a-tet. I'd like to get my read on you solidified before going to Night.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Lynching townies who don't read the rules by D3 is a great way to ensure better town play.

VOTE: Dreal

GenX can go another day ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Catching up on the many, many pages now …

I’m sticking with my dreal vote. I can tell you from my phone reading this weekend I have issues with his play. I’ll summarize them ..

1. For someone who has decried the lack of scum-hunting being done he really hasn’t done any significant amounts himself. His posts are littered with policy stances (“This is what good Town does”) as opposed to looking for scum motivation. The closest I think he comes is his Untrod push and I don’t really see that as very strong myself. Tammy also touches on what I am seeing in 3957.

2. A supplement to 1 – I don’t see actual reads being formed by dreal. What I see is reactionary posting that seems aimed at positioning himself to the thread state. I’ve already covered how the whiplash of “Titus puts me at ease with these posts” to “Titus is a moron who should never be listened to” in 10ish posts doesn’t strike me as Town oriented thinking. His response was basically “You don’t know me”.

Now let’s look at his treatment of GenX today. Dreal posting is incredibly inconsistent with a read on the slot.

3875 – GenX is the scum pushing him today (Dreal is responding to Titus who earlier BTW was a moron not to be listened to.

Can you elaborate on my points of scummyness? Just point them out to me? I know I can lack concision and can be a bit harsh and cause some confusion over my points, but that you compare my level of "scummyness" to GX's, is a bit offensive, because while I have a hard time seeing even perhaps 3% of my posts as scummy, I'm seeing about 95% of their posts as scummy. Soooo, yeah, if you're a fellow townie, I'd much appreciate the help I'd get by being made more aware of when I come off scummy.

So 95% of GenX’s posting is scummy. Thus they have to be a solid scum read you would think.

Yeah, GX, if you're town we need to work together. Convince me and we could be a strong unit.

And yet we get this. In terms of game-flow GenX has began a run at Titus. Yet if GenX’s posts are “95% scummy” why would he even consider him as Town he could work with? Feels very much like “Hey, maybe I can disengage from GenX and use him to foster a different mislynch”.

And 4189 is back to “Oh, scum motivation from GenX”.

There isn’t much logical flow from a Town perspective IMO.

3. Not a single blink at my vote in 3950. Town who thinks GenX is scum (and the above shows that’s questionable from him) seeing someone else moving from GenX to them should have some reaction. But there is nada from Dreal regarding my vote move.

4. 4160 is some serious toe-dipping into the kind of “Derp” posting he’s been castigating Titus for. McMenno was Vigged. Clear as Day. Yet Dreal is floating “McMenno was the Ninja kill” which make so little sense form a mechanical perspective given the only investigative role that would make using the Ninja useful is dead (Espeonage). If he was so invested in “Town don’t make stupid mistakes” that entire post never appears if he did even the barest amount of fact-checking.

Really that post to me reads “Hey look at me I’m theorizing which is totally Town yall”.

Add in all the other points I have made over these 2+ days and I don’t see any reason to not keep my vote on him.

--

Does anyone have any type of read on 1svt and is he an alt?

Given his claimed familiarity with me he has to be an alt. Given the virulence of his reaction to me calling out his hop onto Goatmeal when we were still far away from coordinated plans as possibly scum motivated I have a couple of candidates in mind.

--

And I do believe that both drealmerz and Gen X both have a decent change of flipping scum but the play today from other people I'm unsure about makes me pretty skeptical and not as confident as I was about Toog and Goatmeal.

Um correct me if I’m wrong but weren’t you not so confident on Toog? I mean part of our discussion on GenX centered on how confident he was of the scum Toog flip.

--

PLANWISE: I personally strongly prefer Andrius and Spiffeh in the Lab

Given Spiffeh has stated he can self-protect can you give your insight into why this is your preference?

Also – what is your read on me?

--

@Spyrex

– I see you have dropped your reads list. Here is mine (basically what I dropped in the Quarantine last Night with some modifications based on what I was trying to accomplish there) –

Solid Town (My Do Not Lynch List) – Tammy, Spiffeh, Skybird, Wraith
Likely Town – UT, Fire, Peregrine, MariaR, Errant, Spyrex
Possible Scum – Titus, 1ShotVT, Andrius
Scum – Dreal, GenX

So looking at 4299 let’s talk where the major issues I have with the differences …
Andy – While I grok your “Hes’ the Organizer” bit I’m not seeing a ton from Andy that screams Town to me. In fact some of the Neighborhood posts (which I know you can’t see) Day / Night 2 have put me in the “Hmmm … scum Andy?” mindset. He’s alternated from strongly buddying Tammy to reacting to some questions from her in a “Yeah, I’m paranoid about you as scum” way that doesn’t sit well with me.

Spiffeh – Having seen Town Spiffeh recently I don’t get this scum read. I don’t connect at all with “Give Maria the Vig” as scum motivated play given my read on MariaR and don’t see how you get there. Divorce his read on UT from his alignment for a minute. I can see his stance on UT as reasonable even if I disagree.

Fire – Have you played with Fire before? His words are never, ever “fan worthy”. The fact that he’s willing to get behind the “Use me as a self and scum read blocker each Night” instead of using his Double Vote as, well, a Double Vote is pretty damn strong enough to get over his lack of eloquence IMO.

Skybird – Yeah, again not the overwhelming with words and post volume but I really like what I see in her ISO.

So what-cha think about those thoughts?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Magna, Your reads list contains a fallacy.

If Gen X broke the plan because he's scum, then he did it to kill creature. Thus FA has to be scum along with Gen X as that would be the only way Creature could die and Gen X breaking the plan works.

The mechanical reason for Drealmerz scum has fallen out.

I would hammer Gen X to avoid a no lynch, but I am reasonably confident that both are town.

Well my reads list is not predicated absolutely on Night action supposition. It's based on Dayplay (and PT play) more-so. I'm not necessarily going to label Fire as a scum read for Night Plan analysis until the point where GenX flips scum and my read is confirmed. I could be wrong on GenX.

So do you have anything to say about the points I laid out on Dreal? I know you Town read him but am curious what you think about my observations.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I still have an old Willow lunch box from the 80s.

Yup, I totally see why you guys are Town reading this scum-hunting machine ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Heres the deal on the table.
Lynch him and if hes town lynch me tomorrow. That simple

I'm glad you are Town Spyrex.

Now to see what Dreal said or didn't say about this offer ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Drealmerz is a scum driven wagon.

Requires more than one scum to be scum driven. I'm not sure given your reads from Last Night were driven by mechancially analysis who you think is scum beside Spyrex. Please enlighten me on who else is scum driving the Dreal wagon.

[MagnaofIllusion]

PV, Skybird, Spyrex, UT and Gen X all agree on this Drealmerz wagon. If a Gen X broke the plan because trapped, almost everyone would agree scum are helping.

Yeah … I don’t scum read anyone on that list besides GenX. I guess his flip will tell me if I need to re-assess in that pool or not.

Magna blocks Drealmerz then.

Yes, that is happening.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Mod knows from the Radio Network but I am V/LA.

Tammy or Spiffeh can elaborate until I get back Monday but I spent the overnight re-evaluating reads in the Neighbor PT.

After looking at Goat and Toog-slot my top three players to review were UT, FA or Andy. Ran out of time to do Andy. UT I still think doesn't look like a viable partner. FA I'm in the air about but still don't feel worth pushing today.

Fire

- I'd like you to talk about scum and number selection today. Also - Maria really really really is unlikely to be scum. So stop barking up that tree.

Spyrex

- if you think there is scum in the 6s who do you think it is?

Andy

- what made you choose Wraith over Tammy to jail?

I'm not voting yet. I think that Peregrine is much more likely to be Town over Dreal given the flipped scum reviews. If Dreal flips scum I want 1Shot immediately hung (and vice-versa) for reasons that Tammy and Spiffeh know.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Back from V/LA. I'll be catching up after taking care of some things in my game.

I targeted Dreal last night to Sabotage.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ok so after I get caught up I’m going the Andrius review I need to do overnight.

Actually can we all agree that only one player should be in charge of the Night plans? I already have some issues with Andrius’s handling of the job and would rather Wraith be in charge completely with Andy not filling out “Human References” any longer. In fact the manner in which it looks like Andy specifically botched that Peregrine was blocking off the Living Quarters not the Infirmary makes me suspicious that those sorts of mistakes may be intentional to make plan breaks more likely to happen.

Still doesn’t explain why 1Shot didn’t submit Kennels as his room choice or actually use his ability overnight.

Agree with Wraith’s 4470 which is what my ISO review of the dead Things overnight told me.

1Shot reads to me as frustrated scum who can’t get at me in the Lab without sacrificing himself or a partner and knows that a 1 for 1 trade is too damaging for scum at this juncture. So he keeps shuffling his shoes saying “Can we lynch MoI” like the kid at Thanksgiving who knows he can’t eat at the parents table but asks anyway in hopes that cuteness will seal the deal.

--

hi I need to do things with this game, I promise I will tomorrow

Literally my face upon reading the rest of the thread …



Get your ass in gear and do something. I’m like 98% my Town read on you is correct and your low activity is making me hurt inside …

--

Probably to throw shade on others.
My guess is they wanted to try and push for a PV lynch.
4384

And this is why 1Shot is scum. Here he’s pieced together a theory about why Titus was killed. And provides a specific motivation he’s claiming he believes in – that Peregrine is being set-up.

Yet no vote on the only player floating a Peregrine wagon (Maria) or any sort of follow-up.

Just pretending to scum-hunt.

VOTE: 1Shot

--

You have to go more into this, what do you mean?
What are my reads?

Town: You, Spiffeh, Tammy, Andrius, UT, Skybird
Lean Town: PeregrineV, Errantparabola, MariaR
Null: 1 Shot Vanilla Town
Scum: Spyrex, Wraith, drealmerz

Well you inadvertently half-way answered my question. Early on you espoused (10) that you thought scum duplicated in the sixes. That is Spyrex / Skybird / Peregrine / Spiffeh.

Do you still think this is the case? If so please reconcile to the fact that only Spyrex is in your scum reads and all the rest are Town / Lean Town.

--

[MagnaofIllusion]

@MoI: Opinions on drealmerz and SpyreX?

Um I've said I think Dreal is scum. I probably will end up voting there today but still have to ISO Andy and don't feel the need to rush. So I wanted my 1Shot observation made front and center.

Spyrex came up second tier of potential scum (aside from UT / FA / Andy who were first tier) for review. I was reading him as Town but a review needs to happen.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Still doesn’t explain why 1Shot didn’t submit Kennels as his room choice or actually use his ability overnight.

What was I going to post?

Again - anyone think this is a Town response?

Completely ignores the very salient question of why he didn't go to the Kennels as directed where the ability to publicly post the collective reads of everyone there would be helpful.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Andrius ISO Review – as I have said before (and the Neighbors can confirm) I’m mainly looking at dead scum interactions and votes on flipped Town.

In the ability choice section of the game there isn’t much I think Andrius isn’t capable of faking as scum so it generally is NAI.

728 – votes Goatmeal for a lack of DGB in thread. I don’t read that as very Town given early on he acknowledges that he has played with Ran in the past. Need to see how long that vote lasts and how strongly it is pushed.

998 – Vote has not moved so far. Says “DGB leaves me wanting more. Sigh”. There has been no pressure to Ran in between 728 and this post and I can’t say the above makes much sense in context. If voting Goat was supposed to be pressure to get DGB content then why the completely passive comment when DGB does most and underwhelms?

1180 – Continued soft interactions with Ran while pushing the slot not one iota.

1710 – Hidden deep in his wall I don’t see the “Glad DGB is here, timing is bad, hydra dissonance is real” and no push on the slot at all as Town Andy.

1720 – Here’s my issue with Andy so far in this read-through. His reads list here gives Goat a scum read and Toogs a pending scum read. So far so good. But his ISO is not filled with pushing either of these slots at all. Much, much more “Hey let’s organize the crowd” posting. In fact I can’t be certain why he’s scum reading the Toogs slot as he has commented in no significant way on Yakko (and his lack of thread contribution) at all to my eyes. Maybe it is a function of Organizer Andy not focusing on scum-hunting but it really rubs my gut the wrong way. Feels like distancing.

On the other side – would Andy partners with Goat have dropped a vote 1000 posts ago and kept it lodged there the whole time?

2080 – and now a Toogs vote. Has a back and forth with Toogs about Toogs not doing any catch-up and this vote is basically after Toogs pulled the cord on his life by saying “Screw the plan”.

Day 2 plays out pretty much as I expect given Andrius knows Goat is being lynched.

Argg … my gut has been bugging me about how passive Andy is in the scum-hunting department and I’ve been worried about his focus on the Human Plan over finding Things. But this ISO doesn’t say partner to me. He had any number of chances to vote anyone other than DGB and Toogs Day 1 and didn’t.

Someone else look at his ISO (preferably Spiffeh) and tell me if I should listen to my gut or my head. Gun to my head right now I wouldn’t lynch him over UT or FA. I want someone else to sanity check me.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Tbf the human plan has found the things so far

Yes, I get that. But you can’t just us that to justify minimal other scum-hunting in thread IMO.

--

Magna, please let me know what was ambiguous about the plan.
The plan is only good if people can read it, and clearly PV has demonstrated he can read and follow instructions.

Well given that Peregrine specifically stated he was closing the Living Quarters the fact that you listed the Living Quarters as “Empty” and the Infirmary as “Closed do not enter” is about as clear as mud.

I see your explanation. That doesn’t allieviate my concern that there are too many cooks formatting and gathering data at this stage. I’d rather it be under 1 roof as it were and I prefer Wraith to be the person guiding it as it frees you up to attack the thread in other ways which will help me sort you.

It feels like you're just looking for connections to PV and the 'loophole' in the plan was your connection.

Why don’t you point to what post gave you that impression. I’m very curious where it came from.

Can I get your top scumreads please?
From the Neighbor PT (paraphrasing) you're like FA is more likely scum than UT. If forced, you'd say UT was town. Obviously you're scumreading PV. And then you do the wiffle-waffle MY GUT SAYS MAYBE BUT MY BRAIN SAYS MAYBE not on Andy.

Dreal is my top scum read and has been for awhile. 1Shot is another as I’ve laid out directly in thread and what Tammy said in the Neighborhood QT regarding Goat and Yume factors into that read.

After that I have Townreads (Maria, Wraith, Tammy , Spiffeh, Errant, Skybird). Everyone else is varying levels of inbetween and truth be told if I could carpet napalm everyone in the scum or purgatory reads list I think the game is won.

--

I hate this game on a some deep level

What will it take gents to murder this day away

I understand but I personally want to hear more from my solid Town reads. Tammy, Spiffeh and Errant have basically been MIA. It also wouldn’t hurt to get more Maria or Skybird input also.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Wait hold the phone. You're voting 1SVT.
Why aren't you doing dreamerz?

See if you were reading you'd have noticed where I answered someone (I think it was Wraith) and said I wanted more out of the day and am voting 1ST to show my suspicion but would be voting Dreal once it was time to finish the day.

Also - do I need to point out the terribleness in "OH MY GOD BE CLEAR" followed by "I have a pet theory but I don't want to share it yet"?

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOD – I’ll be V/LA from tonight at 4:30 EST until Monday. Thanksgiving family time and normal weekend duties. I will try to get some content into the thread but it will sporadic and phone-posted most likely.

@Wraith

– Peregrine should specifically be assigned to blocking the Rec Room unless I am mis-understanding how room roll-over works in the case of blockage / over-occuptation. And I’m ok with Sabotaging either 1Shot or FA depending on how the plan comes together.

And once again 1Shot comes in to make a post following someone voting Peregrine (this time Dreal at 4743) with not a comment about it at all. 1Shot has still not to my reading backed away from his “Titus died to frame PV” stance. Which is why I think posts like 4749 where he’s finally putting words in the thread but not coming to much in the way of conclusions (there is hints in that post that Spyrex and Andy are scum but nothing definitive).

--

Do you think it's likely that scum killed Titus in order to setup pv? I highly doubt that.

I'm trying to figure out why Titus over say wraith who is widely town read and is the one doing that core of the planning. If your town they had no way of knowing that you didn't jk me last night and instead jkd him.

But I doubt very seriously it was so that they could get a pv lynch.

So let’s talk about Titus’s reads (as claimed and I think confirmed via the PT Neighbors) for scum were UT, Peregrine, Spyrex and Sky. Her reads as town were FA and the Neighborhood + Maria and Errant.

And Titus was in a room with Wraith, Peregrine, dreal and FA.

Do you think her reads overnight got her killed? If so you have to think strongly Peregrine is scum. He’s the only cross-over member of her PT and her reads list.

--

In thinking about Titus and why she might have been killed, a couple of thoughts crossed my mind. One, when she and her sister were hydraing, they were being scum read by several people, making that slot a potential mislynch. The other thought was potentially DT/Titus didn't pass off her bullet-proof protection before last night.

Why would Titus not passing the BP protection make her a Nightkill target? I don’t get that.

[MagnaofIllusion]

VC 1.8 should be all you need to lynch pere
VOTE: PereV

Maria can you go into detail about your thought process on this? I forgot to ask earlier but I want to understand your train of thought here.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Fuck.

Well even then I don't think drealmerz was the shooter. It's stupendously unlikely he'd have known he was being Sabotaged unless MoI is lying.

Read back in ISO of Titus and I at the end of yesterday. It was very, very clear who I was blocking.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ok something I want to know ASAP –

Andy

– who did you end up targeting and why?

Afterwards I think today my first priority is re-reading UT again and Peregrine. Spiffeh said some stuff in the Neighborhood that makes me think I need to approach UT with a clear slate in my re-read. And Perergine not following protocol (once it is confirmed by a second source) for the second or third time really makes me wonder what his goal there is.

Both of you are in not in my Town reads so that’s a strike against you at this stage.

@Spiffeh

– I didn’t see a response to you re: the general Town read you were questioning in the PT. Do you have thoughts on what I am seeing there?

--

interesting

NK points to 1svt

Really? What makes you say that specifically?

--

I fucking knew it. I posted in the PT last night that I thought the kill would fall within a pool of five players, with Tammy as most likely target.

Can you summarize what happened in your PT last Night. Tammy gave some info but I’d like to here your input.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Magna, Tammy's last stance was a vote on 1svt when it was clear he wasn't dying. She was generally townread, so eliminating her would help to stop wagon momentum today.

If you are so convinced of this why didn’t you vote 1Shot?

--

Sorry Wraith, but MoI and Andrius can confirm I caught up on the day I missed and posted thoughts in the neighborhood

Wraith

– this is me confirming that Spiffeh did indeed get caught up and drop content in the Neighborhood last night.

--

I also asked to play tic tac toe were we could have discussed the game but you blanked the entire thread.

So you didn’t ask him for reads and who he thought was scum to help sort his alignment but asked him to play TicTacToe? Am I reading this correctly?

I mean him not posting anything is not great but not even engaging him on something that is actually game meaningful feels pretty weak.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Wraith

– I wanted to confim my action last night was indeed sabotaging 1ShotVT.

--

Double tinfoil theory spif is neighbor scum and last night was the perfect opportunity to axe tammy and blame andy for it

My question is – why was there no outcry about Tammy being shifted outside the Watched room yesterday in your mind?

--

my reads have been super fucking off for the most part and I don't want to rush the day

That’s fair.

It concerns me that we're basically all in favor of the 1svt lynch. I still want it, but it's weird that there's zero resistance

How is there zero resistance? There have been multiple other players who have been mentioned as possible lynches for today (PereV, Spyrex, UT) and there hasn’t been a quick-lynch style vote avalanche.

--

Meanwhile I want 1SVT dead for multiple plan breakage among other things like not lurking and general lack of involrlvenent etc.

What are your thoughts on PereV? I believe he’s broken plan more than 1Shot fi that is the overriding drive behind your 1Shot lynch reasoning.

--

How can you engage on someone who isn't even posting in the thread.
I would have discussed more if he did, but both him and FA made it clear that neither wanted to talk.
Nice try on the the discredit though, you can have an A+.

No, you don’t get to hand-wave away the fact that your offer in the PT to Spyrex was to play TicTacToe and say “He didn’t engage” and act as if it was obv-Town play. Why didn’t your lead post to him say something along the lines of “Hey Spyrex, want to discuss reads? Even if you think I’m scum it would be worthwhile”? Then at least if he doesn’t respond you’d could get something to help shape your read on him. But you asked him something fluff and him ignoring it isn’t exactly the signs of scum behavior.

Is it your stance that everyone who questions you is “discrediting”? I mean that’s a buzzword attempt to minimize the quite real question I am asking.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So catching up now …

I see an Andrius wagon has formed. Maria was on it. Spiffeh and EP are both on it. Aside from PereV those are all in my Town reads.

And then we have tidbits like this …

Hell, the counter to dream yesterday was 1SVT, not Spy.
There's gotta be scum in there posturing.

Yet no effort by Andy to actually find those scum …

Spiffeh’s 5257 is pretty solid also.

VOTE: Andrius

--

And that also shows that Spyrex was noncompliant with the plan as he didn't block me.

This is Town BTW … I cannot see scum working this hard to get Spyrex to be scum read by others when he’s already willing to be wagoned and Skybird’s reasoning here is so incorrect per the Mod’s reveal about Fire’s ability to block him.

--

Also they the hell isn't magna dead?
That guy would be dead way before now in any fucking game.

Is it because you got screwed trying to shoot me in Kids Mafia and don’t want to sacrifice a member of your team to get to me in the Labs?

[MagnaofIllusion]

MoI thoughts on FA/Firebringer

You can see my last review of FA in the Radio Network thread at 343 as a reminder Spiffeh.

As I said there – his interactions with scum and general posting at that point make me go back and forth. I frankly have a tough time reading Firebringer. I mean what made me certain in Kids TV was his terrible fake-claim and reaction to being called out on it. I’m not thrilled with his side of your recent exchange.

He’s in my Burn it All pool. Am I confident he’s scum? If I was dead set confident I’d have been pushing him. So no. At this stage I’m more confident about who isn’t likely scum and working of a PoE pool.

Why the unvote on Andrius?

--

Leaves Skybird, Errant, UT and MariaR for me.

Here’s another example of why I have issues with 1Shot – the only person on this list I’d consider lynching is UT and I’d not be thrilled about it.

--

judging by how things have been going I'm willing to bet EVERYONE is hard townreading at least one scum right now

Here’s my Town list. Gun to your head who do you lynch from there?

(Maria, Wraith, Tammy , Spiffeh, Errant, Skybird).

[MagnaofIllusion]

Basically I am more confident that Firebringer is scum than Andrius

Prod dodge this is slightly stalling and it feels like were at a point where it's like "pick a lynch and pray"

Hahahahahahaha I absolve my fucking self of blame here because I've tried my goddamn best to avoid it. But then I sit here staring at the goddamn thread every 20 minutes hoping someone will prove me fucking wrong and all I get 90% of the time is shitposts and trolling and "I JUST CAN'T DECIDE" garbage

I hate my life

Who are you scum reading again?

I came into today wanting to lynch SpyreX

[MagnaofIllusion]

Well that was a massive technical fuckup .. since I quoted above I'll just respond with @s ..

@Spif

- Ok, I see where you are going. My only question to you is - do you feel using craptastic logic is more likely to come from scum Fire than town Fire? I mean I can't say that he's ever been a fountain of well developed analysis and cases in the time I've known all his accounts.

@Wraith

- Stop whining. Seriously. Be the change you want to see ... and you never answered the question UT asked - what post gave you doubts?

@UT

- So let's chat. You are currently parked on a Spiffeh vote. The person you said was a Town-read you couldn't justify. And you say your top scum read is Spyrex. Why is that a fact pattern I am seeing?

[MagnaofIllusion]

VOTE: Fire

[MagnaofIllusion]

(both MoI and Andrius can attest to this as I posted a reads list in the neighborhood before Day started).

This is absolutely true.

[MagnaofIllusion]

VOTE: Fire

This is me fully admitting that this vote is about half policy. But for the moment I think it is warranted for the appeasement Surrender Cobra position that Fire has taken in the last page and a half.

VOTE: Fire

This guy is town.

Spiffeh can be town for the forseeable future:

One of us he effectively calls an egotistical jack-ass who couldn't Mafia his way out of a paper bag. The other he's been saying is scum in his posts. Both of us press him and suddenly we're Town. Why completely reverse on Spiffeh so completely? Scum Spiffeh is certainly capable of putting on that display. Fire claims to have enough experience with Spiffeh that he should know that.

I don't see Town reasoning in that ...

magna, lets shoot the birds.
hows life going for u buddy?

If you want to discuss life start a GD or Speakeasy thread and we can talk. This isn't the place.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ok so things (hehe, made the pun again) are starting to stagnate. At this point I want to get things moving in a positive direction.

Here is my No Lynch list - (Maria, Wraith, Spiffeh, Errant, Skybird)

I also am implicitly included in my own list for obvious reasons.

Spiffeh has the following list (I got a chuckle that I am apparently so transparent to Spiffeh that I made the list twice) –

I can't see any of Maria, MoI, Wraith, Skybird, MoI, or 1SVT being scum

And Maria seems to agree with him (see 5399) so filtering out everyone on both our lists gives us the following pool.

Spyrex / Fire / Untrod / Andrius

These are universally not included in the Town pool for the three players above. I suggest we get a block going get the day moving.

@Wraith, Skybird, Maria, Spiffeh

– Is there anyone in the above list you would absolutely refuse to vote today? If so pipe up. I’d like the 5 of us to come to an agreement about which way to go today and get the game moving.

--

i mean you are pretty egotistical, and a bit of a jackass to be honest.
I honestly think based on number of times i have mislynched you compared you me, you kind of need to mislynch me more so the scales are more balanced. How many times is it now? Like me mislynching u has to be like 2-3 and i don't think you mislynched me ever.

I’m not 100% certain you have the facts correct. I mean the one time that sticks out in my mind was Beeboy’s Fire and Ice where you (and others like Snarky) helped the scum lynch me over the scum who was my counter-wagon when I had identified 2 of the 3 scum in my replace in initial post. But that’s all that comes to mind. I’m not looking now because it is pretty irrelevant to my suspicion of you. Maybe postgame I will see how accurate you are.

The fact that you are stating that I’ve never mislynched you makes me wonder what your goal is here – do you think this will someone make me stop suspecting you?

[MagnaofIllusion]

so for now I think the play should be

Lynch Spy

fire rb's UT and Andius

me erra moi/wraith in a room if it's only 3 take out wraith

Fire’s refusal to cooperate makes me say “Temp Hold” on agreeing to this plan.

--

Yeah I think there's a way where we can keep that whole bloc alive

I will post my thoughts on that when I have time later

Please post them when you do get a chance. There don’t seem to be a ton of defense options outside of keeping the Errant / Maria pair going.

--

no, i am done following what town tells me.

i kind of thought me replacing out the reasonable person with me should tell you something about my approach.

I follow no ones orders.

@Wraith and Sky

– thoughts on Fire given the above as today’s lynch?

[MagnaofIllusion]

@MoI: Meh...I still prefer one of P5, Spy, or 1SVT today. And on your earlier question I am pretty emphatically against lynching UT before Spy as said earlier.

Ok 1Shot is off the table since both Spiffeh and Maria agree that slot is Town. And while Peregrine is sorta in Spiffeh’s approved lynch list he is pretty low.

Spy is the only one of those four you would vote today?

--

Just fucking lynch me now. We'll get a conftown poster

I sort of am coming around to this as a viable option. UT Town still gets to provide insight into the game. UT Scum gets to troll which will be ignored. And with 12 people currently living a mislynch would still leave us at a 8-3 voting advantage.

--

What's so important about scum being able to submit actions for each other

It would mean that after Goatmeal got lynched for simple room non-compliance that overwhelmingly the odds are scum would not have let their remaining partners break plan on accident. Thus making 1Shot and Peregrine less likely to be scum.

It also means Andrius is less likely to be scum since Goatmeal would have known that he couldn’t get a shot off in the Lab Night 1 otherwise and would not have ‘missed’ submitting their room assignment.

Unless the Mod is willing to confirm that scum can submit room actions for partners this is just speculation.

MOD – Can the Things submit room choices for their partners?

--

magna, u still didn't answer me on wanting to lynch a mutual scum read.
Why the fuck wouldn't you want to lynch that?

Because I’m trying to coordinate with the mutual Town block among a set of players and I want input from them. But it should be pretty obvious that if you are scum then Spyrex probably isn’t so your plea of “lynch one of your scum possibilities with me another scum possibility when the number of people in your scum possibility pool is much higher than the number of living scum” isn’t really high on my priority list currently.

--

EP and Maria in one room
Wraith, Skybird, MoI in another
Myself in another

I like this from the standpoint that EP and Maria are still linked and Andrius can only cross-block with me if he wants to get a successful block.

Requires Spyrex not to be targeted by the Townblock and FA to not with his votes on the Townblock.

And agree with 5483.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Can you explain this harder?

I’ll take a crack at this Pere.

Facts –

1. The Neighborhood composition was set before Day 1 and fully known to all members.
2. Scum have Daytalk.
3. Goatmeal showed up in the Lab against plan.

Supposition –

1. Scum members can submit proxy actions and room choices for each other.

That leads to the following situation –

All Neighbors knew both Andrius and I were showing up in the Lab Night 1. So for Andrius to be scum with Goatmeal you have to posit that the scum-team actively allowed Goatmeal to break plan to go to the Lab knowing fully well that two Roleblock roles were there and the odds of him actually getting of a Vig shot off were non-existent without sacrificing another member of his team (Andrius). Scum Goat has no reason to go there just for recon purposes to figure out the Neighbors if scum was already in the Neighborhood.

So if scum are allowed to submit proxy actions for their members then there is little reason for Goatmeal to have shown up at all if Andrius is scum (or any member of the Neighborhood to be completist). He wasn’t getting a bonus kill and going out in a blaze of glory since that would absolutely require a third member of the team to be sacrificed to make that shot. Three scum dead by Day 4 I find to be a crippling handicap given the raw PoE power Town has in this open game.

Make sense?

Personally I have some doubt on the Room Choice proxying given the way the game flows but Mod may or may not confirm that for us.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I would lynch any of the 4 right now.

No order preference at all?

--

@MoI: I'd vote for Andrius if I was comfortable with who was on the wagon. I might vote UT depending on the same but I really don't want him dead before SpyreX. I'm not really comfortable with a Fire lynch at this time.

So I take it this is effectively a lynch preference of SPyrex > Andy / UT with Fire unavailable, correct?

--

Then if you remove him from the scumlist (say, for this reason), who does that leave?

I’m not sure if I am parsing this correct so let me confirm – you are asking of Andrius is removed who is left? That would be Spyrex / UT / Fire in the pool I was discussing.

--

Ok moi i like the thought process so whats the natural conclusion.

That would make you andy spiff town, which is a start. Sure sure the arguement can be made that the defense makes sense for scum you but I'm not seeing it.

Then we step back and look. Scum gutted d1 d2 aannnd apathy in the town.. would scum choke the night actions

Actually, a better question is why havent any of the scum factionals heen used or is there a spot for it that I'm missing

There is no natural conclusion because I have no confident that the “Conjecture” tentpole is correct and without it there can be no conclusion. And the fact that SirCakez basically ignored my request signals that it is never going to be confirmed either way.

I can’t parse the “we step back” portion as you’ve retreated in Spyrexlingo. More clarity would be good.

Also – how do you know the scum specials haven’t been used? I’m not sure we’d ever know unless something goes sideways at Night with the Night-actions and then ended up flipping several Town in the hunt for the Thing culprits. I guess the fact we haven't seen that sort of development is a sign they haven't been used I guess.

And the fact that we’ve tightly managed the Night action plan and got Maria the BP vest means that scum have been handcuffed since the Strongman and Roleblock require them to be in the same room as the target.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOD – I will be V/LA starting at 3pm EDT today until Monday morning as normal. Also activity today may be spotty as I have some unforeseen complications to my regular schedule.

--

Look. Just because I don't do it IMMEDIATELY doesn't mean its not happening.
This month is a bad one for what is left of my family and I'm finishing up my MBA. I'm not here to make excuses but please don't assume my normal hypoactivity means if I don't do something immediately its not happening. You know me better than that.

And my problem remains – despite the valid points about your personal life above I still don’t see you looking at what I quoted to find scum. Nothing in your subsequent posts about looking for scum in the 1Shot VT counterwagon and trying to parse out the scum in the dreal versus 1Shot day.

Yume did something?

No Yume had shit thrown their way by Goatmeal in vast volumes. I actually went over this in the Neighborhood so you should have seen my analysis there on the slot. Why no questions about my conclusion?

Also part of me hates 5540 as it looks like a shallow echo of my attempt to get myself / Wraith / Spiffeh / Maria / Skybird working in unison. Feels like trying to drift Spyrex and / or UT into the Townblock when they are prime targets of said block already formed.

[MagnaofIllusion]

What the hell has happened to this game over the weekend while I am away?

I'm going to be catching up over the course of today but the sudden flash-wagon I think I've seen on Spiffeh is terrible and probably either 100% or mostly scum driven.

[MagnaofIllusion]

VOTE: Andrius
Ran out of time to go back today. But pretty clear this Spiffeh wagon is a last ditch effort to effect a mislynch rather than a Thing lynch.

[MagnaofIllusion]

VOTE: Firebringer

The way yesterday played out basically has me at Fire / UT / Spyrex as to who I want dead today. Wraith seems to want Spyrex first. Spiffeh clearly wants Fire first. Skybird sort fell on UT first if I am reading him correctly.

But the LOL, LOOK HOW CASUAL I AM ABOUT MY SCUM PLAY YESTERDAY that Firebringer brought to the table in the last two pages means I start with my vote there.

[MagnaofIllusion]

UNVOTE: Firebringer

Taking the rest of the Night off. Wraith was pretty passionate in the Rec Room about Spyrex. Don't want Fire left in a position to self-hammer.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So now reading back from Daystart at an actual computer ..

To confirm last Night I sabotaged Firebringer.

The first two pages of Fire and Maria’s empty spam back and forth makes me want to poke my eyes out with a sharp stick.

@Spyrex

– care to explain or refute this?

SpyreX didn't want to talk last night it was very sad

And for those who don’t want to actually read Spiffeh’s full case this will suffice –

Firebringer remember that time you lead the counterwagon to a scum lynch with the justification of "I think you're town but you're dangerous to town" when I made it clear I wasn't changing my mind about lynching Andrius?

And you're actually pretending that your lynch is not something I'd do next as town?

--

I think SirCakez should undo that kill.
Not fair for scum team to do that kill when the person had to read 240 pages to catch up.
Also this game was delayed more than a week just so he could catch up.

I am genuinely mad at scum for this.

This is such fake outrage posting.

“GOSH DARN THOSE MEAN THINGS FOR KILLING POOR RB I’M SO TOWN I’M HECKIN UPSET. THOSE THINGS DID ME AN ANGRY.”

--

I swear to god if you try to lynch fire today I will go to a room alone so scum can kill me

Please explain how you think that is even possible given you are bulletproof …

I get a lot of what fire did doesn't make sense or a lot of the way's he could've done things he could've done something else but I think he was honestly just upset if it was anyone else but fire I would 100% be down with his lynch I just feel if he was scum he would've tried something else not made so many of outbursts (today) and acted how he did we can also use his voting power and rb

So you would absolutely lynch ANYONE else for actively trying to fuel a counter-wagon to scum but you like Fire so he gets an out?

No thanks.

Also Fire has already said he will not be “leashed” any longer so your “we can use him” is out the door.

--

and also I wasn't a huge fan of what you said at the day opening. protesting the night kill is a classic scumtell

My money is now on UT as the most likely Town from the Fire / Spy / UT trio …

if I was scum I would have bussed the everloving shit out of Andrius

MoI back me up here

Yup. That said ..

NUKE: UT

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Wraith

- I’m going to be V/LA over the next week for a vacation but remind me afterwards if we are both still kicking to discuss with you wagon analysis. Want to see flip before doing so though.

--

VOTE: Firebringer

The reads list at 6202 seals it for me. Spyrex scum? Sure its possible. Also completely possible as a self-preservation technique. But Peregrine and Skybird as the next most likely pair? Nope, not buying that.

I am fine with us skipping to confirm people.
I vote two people to role block.
MoI sabotages me.

Oh so now when your tail (haha, avatar pun) is on the line you are willing to play ball and be a team player?

It didn't really change my reads....
I said multiple times andrius was never strong town read and his behavior yesterday was null.
I just wanted spiffed gone because his attitude was annoying me.

The most andrius flip told me was maybe andrius was bussing EP to give them town points.

Yup this should die today. “I wanted to get rid of Spiffeh and sided with Scum Andy because Spiffeh annoys me. I didn’t Town read Andy at all. And despite me thinking EP was being bussed for Town cred he is still higher on my reads chart than Pere or Skybird.”

--

@moi
It was pretty much why bother I'm dead man walking and hes not a cool kid club.

See this I don’t buy. Even if UT is not “a Cool Kid” he has this neat role where even if he gets lynched or Nightkilled he’s around to speak his mind. “Cool Kid” or not him being confirmed Town in death (if he is Town) gives his opinion some additional weight (ok, at least with me and I'm assuming with other reasonable players also). Same with information from you if you are Town.

Only way it makes sense to not chat up with UT is either you think he’s scum or you are scum.

[MagnaofIllusion]

You'd think this would be a sign something is amss in the 100 acre wood

Who is scum Spyrex? Words are required.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Maria I'd just like you to know that you are saving the person who drove the counterwagon to a scum wagon yesterday and broke site rules by going against his win condition if he's town

This is who you are "CERTAIN" is town

Spiffeh Maria I think has a strong case of EMK syndrome so this is going to probably fall on deaf ears.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Yall need a fucking reality check
god Moi and micky mouse over here have a strong case of downs

You know I personally don’t care about your opinion of my play but using Down’s Syndrome as an insult is well over the line. Just letting you know that I was the one who reported this post.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Phone posting from paradise to say ...

Could we take til after Jan 3 please?

No reason to turbo lynch even if you are rock solid today on who you think is scum.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Hey back from paradise vacation ...

Comments to come later today if things don't go sideways on me.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So things I would like addressed before we continue …

I hope Spiffeh gets back and can provide input (like I am finally doing).

My reads haven’t significantly changed over the course of the last week given the overall (understandable) lack of content during the holidays. I do think I need to re-read at least the last two game days (if not more) to firm up these individually but where I stand as of now –

Town Reads – Spiffeh, Sky, Wraith and EP
Want Dead Reads – Spyex and Untrod
General Question Marks – Maria

I frankly don’t think it is as easy as Spy plus Untrod. I mean it could be a case of both of them throwing in the Town after their designated end-game buddy Andrius got lynched but I would not bet that is the case.

Maria used to be in my Town reads until the point where Andy got lynched. Spiffeh can confirm (I am rehashed my initial overnight thoughts from back around Dec 13) but I didn’t like her hop on and off of the Andy wagon. I also feel she could be scum coasting (given the lack of presence in thread) off her role and BP status and position linked with EP. Lastly the majority of my Town read on her was Day 1 interactions with Toog and Goat and the revelation that Andy was scum undercuts much of my what I was basing said Town read on.

The re-read should serve to help me sort out who I think is really strong Town in my Town reads and who is there for weaker reasons.

--

Hopefully when i flip town everyone sees this as lining up the next patsy when tomorrow is ohhhgeeereeeee

So this is kind of endemic of a what is troubling me about your responses today (and frankly the last few game days) Sprex.

So here the inference we should take based on the fact that you are commenting on a Wraith post is that Wraith is scum lining up mislynch patsies. But it is far from clear to me who you think scum is. If this is indeed Spyrex Town deciding for the betterment of the Town he needs lynched today I would expect that you’d be a little bit more clear in who you think is scum as you are set to depart.

So – who are your top 3 suspects for scum and why Spy?

--

vote SpyreX

I don't really see this not happening today so

wooooooooo

So who is scum UT? Frankly there is very little coming from your slot IMO that indicates suspicion that resembles actively looking for the last Things. I mean just “Well lots of people want Spyrex dead so let’s do it”.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I think all you need to do is re read my interactions with the scum we have flipped and then my day with fire and you'll see how obv town I am
I don't know how you get the "I'm coasting because of my bp and doc" I don't think I've ever brought that up once.

Let’s parse this out.

1. Interactions with Dead Scum – this was the reason I had you as Town for many days but frankly the revelation of Andy as scum puts all kinds of “what the hecks” into it. I don’t think scum would be working so hard to keep a Vig 1-Shot out of Town’s hands and then squandering it. Andy was scum in the Neighborhood so Goat had to know that they were not getting their Vig shot off successfully without compromising Andy immediately. So why did they go to the Lab then? To build Andy Town cred? There are huge questions about the Day 1 play with Toogs and Goat that I am not taking anything for granted at this point.

2. Not sure why you think your interactions with Fire make you ObvTown. If anything the excess outrage over his lynch leans me to feel it is as likely staged on your part as not.

3. You bringing it up is not the point. The point is that you seem happy with having your twosome with Errant that has brought you this far along in the game. As a 1Shot BP I’m wondering why you think just ‘going with the flow’ is Town-positive play.

The fact you started questioning me after Andy's flip is outright shocking I thought that was the nail in my obv town coffin
Also I don't think I would ever go as far as I did as scum to protect fire that's outright sickening but that's all wifom stuff

Why do you think your play surrounding the day Andy was lynched makes you Obv-Town? As I said my gut immediately after his flip was “Awkward as heck hop on and off the wagon”.

Why would you not protect a player as scum who you know is Town and have nicely pocketed?

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Spyrex – thanks for giving me some words.

VOTE: UT

He specifically had time to echo a Spiffeh point but not respond to my question. So he can have my vote.

--

BUT I really want MoI to reveal who he targeted these past few nights (or quote where he has done so) because I don't think he ever said that?

For Night 5 –

To confirm last Night I sabotaged Firebringer.

I thought I had posted for Night 6 that I sabotaged UT but apparently I had not. I did mention that was my intention to Skybird and Wraith in the Rec Room overnight.

--

To Talk about your 3rd point Do you not remember me kicking and screaming to be roomed with Creature/EP and then when it didn't happen he died that's prob cause scum knew "oh shit that's a good plan better break it up" I never said I was happy having my 2 some with EP everyone just keeps talking on how it MUST BE ME AND EP IN A ROOM CHOP CHOP GO I just thought it was a thing now and I had no room to change it I'm going with the flow because that's just how I am bp or not it may not be town positive play to you but I'm not going to change my whole play just because I have a vest

I’m not sure what the point here is … recognizing the Creature’s ability was powerful is NAI. And while you may have been vocal about being in a group with him after his death I don’t recall you going after the planners who broke up your threesome at all. Am I incorrect in this? If so show me.

The rest of the response will have to wait til postgame for further discussion.

Your 2nd point I don't want to dive into too much but if you think I really cared enough about this game THAT much to ate THAT much ooo boy you're wrong.

If you don’t care about the games you play in why are you here?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Do we have our plan set for tonight? I plan on voting Spy but don't want to end the day before everyone has had a chance to say what they want.

We do not. Ideally we would wait for Wraith to parse the plan as that has been his bailiwick so far. Not sure if people are willing to wait.

That said I need to see what people think about the following which Wraith posted previously …

If Spy doesn't flip scum then it is every man for himself. By which I mean no one follows any plan at night.

Working under the scenario where Spyrex is today’s lynch is there anyone who has any objections to this course of action? I think everyone not Spyrex or Wraith needs to actively say “Yes, I agree with no plan in the eventuality that Spyrex is lynched and flipped Town we have no plans for Night”.

I have some reservations about this. Scum are going to be organized themselves regardless of whether there is a laid out plan or not. I don’t personally see the benefit of suddenly on Day 7 going “Whelp, no plans that can limit scum’s options or allow us to catch scum. It strikes me as off and the fact that I don’t recall any discussion about it is a bit worrying. If I’m in the minority I’m in the minority but it doesn’t sit well with me on a gut level.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOD – Time for the weekly “I’m weekend V/LA” announcement again. So after 4:30PM EDT I’ll have limited access until Monday morning.

I’m glad others want a plan in place regardless of Spyrex’s flip. I think the room threshold tonight is 3 (Correct me if I’m wrong). I’d prefer a 3-2-2 room distribution with Maria and Errant as one of the 2s and Errant able to watch whichever of the other rooms he chooses.

Beyond that I’m ambivalent other than saying I wouldn’t mind Spiffeh and I both being in another room (with someone else or not) to give us the potential of Daytalk for the next day.

--

Maybe you should stop assuming you know what I'd do in MyLo

Spyrex does make a good point – why do you necessarily care about his assessment of your motives if you think he’s likely scum?

[MagnaofIllusion]

He's assessing my motives? I was eye-rolling at his "woe is me town's gonna lose if I get lynched" garbage since that's pretty much all he's posted since town started suspecting him D4.

Um despite the annoyance about his "I need to get lynched today" stance (which I share) he's not saying at all that his lynch will cause Town to lose.

If anything Spyrex's stance is "I need to get lynched today so Town has a chance to reformat their thoughts on my flip". That's worlds different.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So here is my suggestion for room assignments –

EP / Maria - Lab
Spiffeh / myself – Rec Room
Wraith / Skybird / Untrod – Kennels

Someone wants to say Nah that’s fine but we have about 12 hours before end of day and nothing much is happening.

I’ll be around all day and will be hammering Spyrex by 5:00pm EST worst case.

--

I should have asked people to convince me on this, but it's too late now. sigh

Did I miss your convincing case on Wraith as scum? If so please point me to it.

--

I'll hammer SpyreX before deadline and maaaaaybe figure stuff out over Night?

I’m fairly confident you are Town Spiffeh and for that I say the following –

Get you fucking head in the game overnight. I honestly expect some interaction in the Radio Network from you so you can help me parse out some things.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Draft order

Goatmeal

- 5

Fire Assassin

- 9

McMenno

- 11

Toogs

- 12
Errantparabola - 14

Generation X

- 17
MariaR- 29

Creature

- 33
Wraith - 50
Untrod Tripod - 69

Tammy

- 3 (1st)

rb

3 (2nd)

Andrius

- 8 (1st)
MagnaOfIllusion - 8 (2nd)

Espeonage

- 1 (1st)

drealmerz7

- 1 (2nd)

Titus

- 1 (3rd)
SpyreX - 6 (1st)
Spiffeh - 6 (2nd)

PeregrineV

- 6 (3rd)
Skybird - 6 (4th)

So I took the time to update the draft order. Just an FYI for everyone but a Spyrex scum flip and the game is locked up in my mind when combining my reads with the draft order …

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'm voting spy right?
VOTE: Spy

Yes you were already voting Spy so this only could serve to fool someone not paying close attention into thinking Spy had been hammered.

VOTE: Spyrex

I don't want to let that cause a no-lynch.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Holy sweet jesus Manga you give me way too much credit

Too much credit for what? Not knowing where your vote was? I'm confused by your reaction.

[MagnaofIllusion]

What I got from that msg was you're saying I acted like that to get town to nl and I was semi shocked

Well that was a possible outcome of that post you made. Don't be semi-shocked by that fact. Regardless of your intention posting a vote one someone when they are L-1 tends to be viewed as a hammer on initial read. Once I realized it was you making the vote I knew I had to get mine down.

Same mechanics as the ever-present and overdone "fake hammer for reactions" that I see all the time.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I sabotaged Skybird.

Unless EP's result shows an 100% guilty (which I think there is a low possibility of at this stage) we are No Lynching and not discussing reads.

Once EP posts I'll be back to either vote No Lynch or discuss his result and start the day in earnest.

[MagnaofIllusion]

First confirmations –

I went to the Rec Room and was with Spiffeh. No-one else there.

I did sabotage Errant. My choices going into Night were EP / Skybird / UT as who to try to block trying to prevent the Nightkill. Spiffeh had suggested Skybird since I sabotaged them last Night but I thought EP was the best choice. There was a minimal chance I could catch him fake-claiming a guilty by doing so if he was ballsy and his Room Watch has meant he was not touched all game long by blocking abilities. That made him the perfect designated scum killer. And he was one of my most likely scum candidates on re-read (along with Skybird).

Agree with Spiffeh’s summary in 6515.

A No Kill today and I was going to open with a EP vote and never move it. The fact that a kill did happen makes me second guess. Just based on reads my scum team by PoE is EP and UT. But that’s everyone lean who isn’t EP and UT and on a gut level that feels too easy.

@EP and UT

- Who do you see as the most likely scum team and why ...

On re-read I thought Maria still looked pretty Town from the early interactions. And UT would literally have been laying a path right to himself with his Goat interactions if they were partners. I don’t think UT is stupid but I really need to look back at Inspirations Mafia and re-read his ISO in Defcon. He’s been scum twice in our common games and I’ve lost to him twice. So I absolutely need to see his interactions with “doomed” partners in both.

Spiffeh has looked fairly Town all game and the Andrius versus Spiffeh day would be an epic (and probably needless given that Firebringer / Spyrex could probably have easily been lynched instead of Andy) cross-bus if that was the case. What is making me sligthly paranoid is that he is the only living 1 Choice left and all the rest were Town along with him generally being alive while hanging a “Best Town Performance” banner. But even if Maria or Spiffeh are scum playing a great game they aren’t being lynched today and that will be a 3 player LYLO decision assuming we lynch correctly today.

--

Someone check that for glaring flaws.

I’ve mulled this over a multitude of ways and while there are circumstances I think can make a hypothetical 3 player LYLO not a sure thing most of them are small percentage edge cases (and most resolve around Maria as scum which again I don’t think is the case).

The biggest danger is EP-scum not following the plan and Strongman killing you via going to the Rec Room. But that’s mitigated by two factors ..

1. You having a Commute shot means the Strongman fails regardless and is a death sentence.
2. Even if you don’t we have the Neighborhood so you will be able to say “Yup EP broke the plan” well before you die.

I also think even if we choose to lynch EP today that the same plan set-up works (or has the same built in issues).

--

Can someone update the vote counts or am I going to be forced to go back and do that

End of Day VCs or all VCs? Because if it the second you can do it yourself. Way too much work. EoD I might be able to squeeze in during before the weekend.

[MagnaofIllusion]

The biggest danger is EP-scum not following the plan and Strongman killing you via going to the Rec Room.

This isn't a danger because in that case you and Maria would just lynch EP the next day right?

Um yes the mitigating factors indicated that EP would not be getting away with it ....

[MagnaofIllusion]

So reviewing Inspirational Mafia I can see some of the elements Spiffeh has pointed out about UT’s play – specifically voting scum out of nowhere.

Shotty and Lowell are his partners. He does some early distancing from Lowell but Day 3 once Shotty gets sufficient pressure UT jumps on the Shotty wagon late (vote 4 of 5) despite really having never really addressed him at all prior to that point which is the assessment of his Andy play by Spiffeh. No buddying of his partners per se. In fact in the re-read I noticed him buddying up to me in places that make me cringe now in hindsight that I didn’t twig to them.

My scan back through Defcon showed me that UT was nearly as strong with bussing SomethingSmart as I thought and didn’t really buddy nearly at all. Which actually seems to match his play here looking through his ISO.

Hmmm ….

[MagnaofIllusion]

What do you think of EP's most recent post?

Bad. As is everything posted by UT today. UT’s basically hammering over and over “AtE lynch me and lose AtE” and neither one have any actual suspects.

--

but if you're going to go by meta bullshit

remember that game we just finished where your analysis of votes and player interactions showed you how town I was

:3

Yeah, it’s almost as if I learned from that game to revise how I read you …

“You suck and can’t read me” posts make me want to vote you and take the loss if I’m wrong.

Why should anyone be reading you as Town this game?

[MagnaofIllusion]

yeah and the point I'm making is that this game and that one are very different situations but you're claiming they're the same

No I'm fucking not. I'm saying I see similarities in your play between these games. You may go "META BAD, UT SMASH" all you want but that doesn't mean I shouldn't look at fairly recent games with you as scum to see if I can find correlations.

Why aren't you pointing out that my Inspirational review is wrong also? You are just latching on DEFCON and ignoring that how you treated Andy is exactly how you treated Shotty.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MoI if you had to pick between EP or UT today who would you lynch?

Gun to my head - Errant. His ISO review was in my mind worse than UT's (from our Night 7 room if you want to peek back at it) and he has done nothing today that gives me any indication he's actually trying to game-solve. Now truth be told neither has UT and the fact that both of them can't find a scum suspect (other than both softballing some very weak suspicion at you) but don't want to lynch the other makes me feel that it is possible we are deciding between Scum and Scum and both are apathetic because they feel doomed by your plan.

I'm basically wanting to see their content and will give both over the weekend. We certainly don't need to rush LYLO IMO.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Well your AtE binge of "Oh woe is me I am useless" combined with a quick Spiffeh vote and no attempt to show EP as scum sends that message ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

"I am willing to lynch EP"
-Untrod Tripod (1-20-2017)

Great. Is he scum or are you just looking for any non-you lynch?

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOD – I’ll be V/LA from noon today until Monday for my usual weekend duties.

As I said earlier – I am happy to give EP and UT the weekend to show actual scum reads with reasoning.

@Maria and Spiffeh

– Here’s where I stand. I don’t think both EP and UT are Town. That would require me to believe both of you are scum. Maybe one of you has played a tight scum game and gotten a Town read from me that isn’t warranted. But I’m willing to bet the game that both of you haven’t. So unless you believe that both myself and the other of you are scum I think it is important that we make an informed lynch today. That will give us another day to sort out paranoia if we lynch scum today. And frankly it may be an exercise in over-thinking that has the Dead Thread screaming “Just lynch either of them they are both scum!!!!”. But I’m asking you to re-look at both EP and UT and come to a conclusion on which looks like the better lynch today.

--

Actually I’d like this question EP put forward answered by UT –

were you townreading spyreX when you voted him

--

I know that a me lynch results in a loss, so... the distinction is kind of irrelevant?

No, it isn’t.

You’ve already said you have no idea who scum is in your many, many AtE “Lynch me and lose the game” posts today. But you are apparently willing to just lynch anyone who isn’t you without even bothering to do any work to look to see if you think they are actually scum. And you keep alternating between these dueling narratives of “Scum deserves the win more” and “Don’t lynch me you lose lose lose” which don’t mesh together at all.

I don’t think that looks like Town player personally.

[MagnaofIllusion]

But you are apparently willing to just lynch anyone who isn’t you without even bothering to do any work to look to see if you think they are actually scum.

To clarify this a little more - I am having a hard time seeing UT who is leaning on "I know my loss loses the game" that hard when Town UT also has to know that a mislynch on another Town also immediately loses the game. Yet he's not even trying to sort anyone at all even though from hypo-Town perspective at least one of Spiffeh / Maria / myself has to be scum. And no, I don't count the momentary "I'll vote Spiffeh" as real suspicion since he basically afterwards says "Work with me if you want to win as Town".

[MagnaofIllusion]

Back from V/LA –

So in reading what happened over the weekend my choice of who to lynch gun to my head hasn’t changed – I’d chose EP. That said the activity here has reinforced my feeling that this is being over-thought and the remaining Things are EP and UT.

EP’s “Hey this is my case on Spiffeh and I don’t think UT is scum” song and dance doesn’t sell me at all. Spiffeh as scum would not have effectively strong-armed the Andy lynch the way he did. There were plenty of other viable Town mislynchs to be had (Spyrex and Fire) that he could have supported. Furthermore if he thinks UT is Town the fact that Spiffeh has held off what could be an easy mislynch on hypo-Town UT (Maria was strongly on board – unless you think both Maria and Spiffeh are scum then that’s open for a hammer from whatever scum is left) doesn’t connect for me as Town processing of the game-state. Finally the color enhances series of posts starting at 6628 pretty much can be summed up as “I needed to find what I see as the easiest lynch in Spiffeh / Maria / MoI” which lands on Spiffeh who already has been voted by UT and Maria has expressed concern with the page before.

Finally this –

More about the two castes of people in this game-- the three people that ended yesterday townreading each other, and the remainder. The general theme from all three of those people is that THEY ARE WRONG ON EXACTLY ONE PERSON. DOES THIS MAKE ANY LOGICAL SENSE? NO. It makes absolutely no sense that someone would believe that it is most likely that scum is in either me OR UT, but they are not confident that it is me AND UT, and they are not confident (this case being Magna most specifically) that is is NEITHER me NOR UT.

This is so divorced from reality that I’m troubled that no-one pointed out this fact.

UT’s play likewise is not Town. The amount of Cognitive Dissonance coming from his slot today and lack of game-solving is pretty evident. Let’s examine the following quotes –

much like my vote helps to take your victory from you, regardless of your alignment

I have yet to see any reasons why UT actually thinks Spiffeh is scum. But he’s willing to dangle a vote which if UT is Town could be lead to a quicklynch unless Spiffeh is scum. Which contradicts his concern shown here –

I didn't say that. My point was that it only takes one wrong vote.

UT has not shown any worry about him potentially dropping two separate votes on Spiffeh. Only worry that he’s the recipient of a “bad vote”.

And we have this gem –

now would be a good time to try to talk me into moving my vote to EP though

instead of just whining about how town you are

Um whut? This is UT’s belaboring Spiffeh for exactly what he as himself done today – whined about how his lynch loses the game.

UT keeps offering EP as a potential scum candidate but those words ring hollow given his votes have fallen easily on Spiffeh and never on EP (who I have said multiple times is my lynch preference for today).

--

Also that's pretty bullshit. MoI can attest that I've been presenting you as a lynch in the neighborhood since like Day 2-3 and was pretty much shot down by everyone. Similar things took place in the thread.

Maria

- On general recollection I can confirm this seems appropriate. I can go back to our Radio Network and days we’ve shared a room to confirm specifics if you want.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Spiffeh

- At this point both Maria and I have both stated our preferences for lynch between UT and EP. I'd like to hear your thoughts on the subject.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MoI as you said I'm pretty indifferent to which of EP or UT we lynch. They're pretty neck-and-neck in terms of bullshit spewing today.

I'll follow whatever you do.

I take it then that your Maria paranoia has settled down for the most part then based on your back and forth with her?

--

If both of us vote EP and there's no hammer (which there won't be), it will be pretty clear to Maria that the scum team is either myself and you or EP and UT.

And we all know which team is more plausible.

At this point I'm ready for the day to end but I'll wait to see if you and Maria still want to talk things out.

vote EP

go for it ladies

The timing of this vote after I just called out his unwillingness to actually vote EP and Spiffeh’s post above is suspect as fuck ..

@Maria

– are you ok with lynching EP over UT given the set-up Spiffeh gave earlier works with UT in EP’s place as well?

[MagnaofIllusion]

I want to confirm our plan tonight with Maria and MoI and give them a chance to talk like Maria requested.

While we are waiting for Maria to get a chance to weigh in can I summarize my perception of the plan?

Maria and I both go to the Lab.
UT / EP (whoever isn’t lynched) goes to the Kennels
Spiffeh goes to some other non-disclosed room that minimizes UT / EP’s chance of rooming with them.

I block one of Spiffeh or UT / EP.
Maria protects me.

That a good Night summary?

[MagnaofIllusion]

why would you block Spiffeh?

why would MoI block you though? what does that gain us?

Hey look ... UT is questioning why there would be any reason for me to potentially sabotage Spiffeh despite the fact he's vote Spiffeh twice today ...

Cognitive Dissonance Ho!!!!

[MagnaofIllusion]

no, I'm asking why YOU would. aren't you hard townreading him?

I am. In all likelyhood I would not. But the option to discuss with Maria in the Lab overnight (assuming we get there) should leave open the possibility. I fully acknowledge that it is possible one of Maria / Spiffeh has played a solid game and fooled me. More info to assess who that could be is a good thing, correct?

And shouldn't Town you (WIFOM of a No Kill aside) want that possibility open in case Maria convinces me Spiffeh is the better block? You are scum reading him correct?

[MagnaofIllusion]

shouldn't he be claiming his target so we get a potential clear in the event of his death?

If I die only Maria could be the killer and to get to Night for me to die we have to lynch scum today ...

I mean if you want to continue to pretend you are Town "puzzling out things (ha, pun)" be my guest ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

And shouldn't Town you (WIFOM of a No Kill aside) want that possibility open in case Maria convinces me Spiffeh is the better block? You are scum reading him correct?

[MagnaofIllusion]

your sabotages have really done us a lot of good up to this point, so I guess you know what's best :3

Why can't you answer the question UT?

[MagnaofIllusion]

I just think that if you think there's a 95% chance that I'm scum, it's strictly the higher value play to just sabotage me? you sabotaging town doesn't lose us the game outright, so why not just target the person you're fairly positive is scum? why even leave the door open for a different pick that's just an edge case

So once again you can't actually answer the question and go off on tangents ...

If scum is as hemmed in as this plan establishes then there is no practical difference as to who I may or may not target at Night and whether it is beneficial to announce it before Night. Yet you are continually sidelining from the issue at hand ...

Is Spiffeh a scum read for you? YES or NO in your next post.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Maria - here is the full permutation list of all possibilities (excluding reads) -

Moi / UT
MoI / EP
MoI / Spiffeh
MoI / Maria
UT / EP
UT / Spiffeh
UT / Maria
EP / Spiffeh
EP / Maria
Spiffeh / Maria

[MagnaofIllusion]

How can it be us when EP has a vote on him
we'd have just voted

I'm just listing the full possibility space - I thought that was what you wanted.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Yes, this is further confirmation that the scum team is not combination of Spiffeh / Maria / MoI.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Maria - have thoughts about my V/LA catchup post?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Franky at this stage I am pretty comfortable going with either. I think odds are probably about 95% the teams is EP / UT after seeing today's posting and although I have a preference for EP I will not cry if we decide UT. Especially with the Night Set-up we have in place.

So Maria I'll follow you on UT if you want but if you'd rather Spiffeh and I make the final call I'll vote EP.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I pref UT but incase you have last minute fears of it being me/EP I'll vote EP

I don't. The fact is I can't see a you / EP team allowing the Creature kill as it would assure a 2scum 1Town unbreakable block that you could have ridden to endgame without much in the way of question.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Since it is your birthday Maria you can have the first vote

[MagnaofIllusion]

Spiffeh - I will be checking in with you on the Radio Network to make sure whoever isn't lynched doesn't show up wherever you are. So please let me know ASAP once you get your room assignment.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Oh fuck you
VOTE: EP

Wow ... I was trying to be nice ...

VOTE: EP

[MagnaofIllusion]

If either of you are scum you owe me to say so right fucking now and say that I lost

This is me crossing my heart and saying with all truthfulness - "I am not scum who just won the game with a mislynch".

So breathe ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

To confirm what everyone else in this thread already knows – I sabotaged UT last Night.

I wanted to savor making this post as my impending vote is a rarity for me. I rarely get the opportunity to cast the hammering vote to win the game on scum. In fact I can only remember one other time that happened. And I can’t ever recall getting to hammer scum two days running.

VOTE: Untrod

Feel free to share whether you bothered to even attempt to join the same room as Spiffeh to try to strongman him UT. I'm curious whether you bothered knowing he'd be able to relay your appearance back to me dooming you.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Well glad this is finally over. It was a long, hard uphill battle given how both Goat and Toogs effectively self-destructed Day 1. And every time I thought we were getting traction towards an endgame events conspired to make us have to cut loose another Thing for the good of the collective.

SirCakez – Thanks very much for the game. I enjoyed the flavor (and don’t knock yourself on the writing – it is very difficult to maintain flavor to a limited source material like you have in the Thing movies) and the set-up as an Open worked very, very well. A testament to the care you put into the balance in a SmallTown style game that establishing tightly controlled action plans still did not immediately doom the scum team. Consider a Scummie nod for Best Set-up coming your way.

I also understand the gripes (but disagree with them) regarding how Nights were inherently extended due to the Room mechanic. Those features were know before the game even started so anyone caught off-guard.

Despite being a part of the game ending mislynch I think Spiffeh probably played the best overall Town game. He had good instincts in sniffing out both Goat and Toogs slot (even if Toogs made it easy to push the lynch through) Day 1 and made the very good decision to choose Andy over Fire / Spyrex / UT that Day also.

Town ended up losing, I think, because we were smart about strategically removing the most important “LockDown” pieces early (Esp and Creature) regardless of how powerful those slots were Dayplay wise and then took advantage of Town players who made moves that were easy to paint as scum motivated (breaking plan, voting actively to lynch an Obv-Town player over scum) and removed the biggest remaining Dayplay potential threats as necessary with some healthy bussing when needed.

Thanks again to my scum-mates (especially Andy and EP) for keeping things fun in the PT. It made the long slog towards total world domination by us Things easier to withstand.

I am vomming all over the love fest in the Scum PT

I hate that you guys won

I am salty

THINGS STICK TOGETHER

[MagnaofIllusion]

I will end you

I'm sorry. The hive-mind is cluttered as I am busy taking over the world .. I can't hear you clearly ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

I lost everything I hoped to gain. Sure MAGNA brings us THINGS back

but SpyreX is gone

,

The bolded is the worst thing about this game ... I feel bad for Spy ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Like I agree ~The Plan~ wasn't a huge help in the long run but only because the scum team integrated themselves well enough to avoid being caught out by it.

Well that and we either had (via draft) or eliminated the most damaging roles to us by Day 3.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Tbh I think it was most effective when we established a town bloc that forced scum to kill mislynchbait like 1SVT and Peregrine

Sorta ... 1Shot VT would NEVER have been Nightkilled if he had remained in the slot.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Or Andy could be cool and just not have hydras which are an abomination upon the land that is MS.net.

[MagnaofIllusion]

wait, was the towniness or rb replacing in the reason that slot got killed?

100% that he was replaced with someone who wasn't a VI.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I choose to pre-in to Spiffeh's Kingdom since Andy is a cool Mod who does great games and isn't afraid of anything!

[MagnaofIllusion]

She's not. EP made a joke about it in game and it has sprouted legs and ran by itself.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ps: Manga I will policy lynch you if we ever play again

FTFY

[MagnaofIllusion]

here's a quick tip for you: Is Maria playing like town being helpful useful giving good points? Scum.
Is she playing anti town not doing much? Town

The fact that you seem to be saying that you go out of your way to not be Pro-Town as Town makes me very sad ...

I had hopes you were better than that Maria ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Manga teach me your town play so I don't have to read you anymore ty you scare me
Pedit NO I DON'T MEAN THAT IT'S JUST I'M MORE LIKELY TO MAKE ANTI TOWN PLAYS AS TOWN THEN SCUM

MANGA DON'T SHAME ME

Well ok ... the way you put it read as if you LOLplay as Town when fully capable of actually playing normal Town.

I will keep shaming you for your inability to spell my name correctly

Feast upon the truth of my origins, and despair ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

what happened that was really ew

Maria was triple teamed in the Lab by Things ...

...

Sorry Maria I couldn't help myself ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Manga did you make my death painless at least I was the LAST ONE ANYWAY

I promise you only felt the tender embrace of becoming a Thing body and soul ...

mwhahahahahahahaha