BIOCHEMISTRY - game over, finally, it's only been 5 months

[Gorkington]

i hope this reaction to your wagon on me helps you sort me firebringer.

[Gorkington]

marquis its going to be really hard not to buddy you this game.

id feel worse about it but you already complimented me once so i think you probably deserve it.
(:

[Gorkington]

OHH NO!!!!

[Gorkington]

D:
:'(

OWWWWWWWW

[Gorkington]

I, too, dislike Spiffeh's posts.

okay but everyone dislikes spiff's posts.
didnt have to bring up out of game stuff like this sad.

Glork what are your thoughts on the game sofar?

i cant give any because if i do then it will be easier for firebringer to sort me with this wagon of his.
the pressure is already making it so hard please dont make it harder for me.

[Gorkington]

Lol this is garbage

its actually a post.
not garbage.

i got you some glasses because i think you need them:

[Gorkington]

Gorkington, have i allready told you how much i like your haircut?

thanks!

[Gorkington]

Vecna is town
Creature is town

Cheetory

gorkington

lean

the most

town
Voices by far my strongest scumread

fixed your list.

how does it feel to be the new guy that everyone wants to kill sad?

[Gorkington]

vote: rick and andrea

[Gorkington]

i dont think sad is an easy person to read off of tone.
especially if youre not experienced with how he tends to play.

[Gorkington]

firebringer.

[Gorkington]

hmmm.

[Gorkington]

vote: rick and andrea

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

[Gorkington]

hes really uncomfortable.
and i dont believe that he actually thought he could sort me earlygame with pressure.

[Gorkington]

dont be so nervous vifam.
its not like im trying to manipulate you right now.
(:

[Gorkington]

it really isnt.

[Gorkington]

titus might also be scum.

[Gorkington]

also, while im being candid,
the last three times ive seen scumspiff, i got a bad taste in my mouth from his posts in earlygame and let it go.

i havent gotten that this game.

which is probably lame, but.

p-edit: titus, what colour would you like your TOMBSTONE to be?
o:
o:

o: o: o:

[Gorkington]

i'll give you botd for now titus.

get some skin in the game.

[Gorkington]

benefit of the doubt

[Gorkington]

sad.
if you want anyone to take a votwagon as seriously as you are, you should probably explain it.
and you should probably also tell me why youre not also voting firebringer while youre at it.

[Gorkington]

i know you were on other side of sad in defcon, but finding his opinions disagreeable/his tone weird isnt really all that compelling to me.

you should tell me what you think of firebringer pushing me as easy to read through pressure.
because i really thought you'd be all over that too.

[Gorkington]

sad gets overly confident or acts like it often about stuff that doesnt seem like he should be.
really doesnt seem that out of line with what i would be expecting here.

so you think firebringer wouldnt compensate for that being a scumtell of his here?
like, gahhhhhhhh.
i dont think ive a) ever been seriously pushed in a game that he was in
b) ive definitely NEVER responded well to pressure in a game that hes been in with me.

you dont think its fucking weird that he comes in here and acts like im antihero or something?

[Gorkington]

[no offense anti (: ]

[Gorkington]

how dare you.

[Gorkington]

can you link me though to recent game?

[Gorkington]

im not valuable wtf.

also, sad.
being dodgy is bad.
stop being dodgy.
respond to spiff.

[Gorkington]

yeah except spiff is probably town.
and ignoring him means that if you are town youre keeping him stuck on you when he could be focused on someone else.

[Gorkington]

If a post does not help me fulfill that agenda then is it really worth making???

if youre distracting people, then yes, it is anti-town to be evasive.

town works as a collective.
it isnt a solo show.

and the people who act like it is and toot their horn when they were right about reads are still bad because they couldnt work with town to get shit done.


also, spiff, seems more like firebringer was annoyed at you that game than scumreading you. and when he did start saying you might be scum, it at least came across as reasonable from a framework of OMGUSness. where this push on me just feels a lot more like him trying to fake paranoia of me.
i humbly disagree with your comparison between this game and that game.
if there are examples that illustrate the point better i'll lurk them.

[Gorkington]

ive seen titus take several different approaches to playing scum and frankly aggressiveness isnt something that i would associate with her scumgame.

her play so far feels more like what ive seen from her scumgame than not, but id like to see more.

[Gorkington]

bingo.

[Gorkington]

youre not going to get lynched while youre gone.
come back when youre not busy and engage the game then.

[Gorkington]

Also I need Gork & Fire reads so help me out there.

i'll take a look at their posts and get back to you.

[Gorkington]

I don't feel the need to continue defending him

fine!
whatever!
i didnt want to talk anyway!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Gorkington]

but the double-team thing on page 13 felt forced.

what does this mean

[Gorkington]

it is actually though.

when you setup spec things like that you make little baby jesus cry.

[Gorkington]

Glorkington push hasn't led me anywhere. Still on null from him.

~Rick (Fire), Leader

interesting

[Gorkington]

is that all i get fire? ):

[Gorkington]

There's too many people who have thrown side shade on Voices but refuse to commit to the wagon. Recipe for early scum catch with scum trying to divert attention elsewhere.

just a reminder that titus is a little scummy.

VOTE: creature

[Gorkington]

In other news guess who doesn't deserve all the town reads he's getting?'

Gorkington

what happens when i get invested?
do i get an apology?

[Gorkington]

Gork talk to me about SAD. I don’t think his play here is anything like Defcon where all of us were Town. There he was much more reactive to suspicion / pressure. Here I sense he’s putting on a “Ho hum, look how good I am” mask. I’d go so far as to say he’s being much less vitriolic and much more jokey agreeable here …

iuno.
i kind of feel like im falling into a dumb trap that ive been falling into a lot recently of defending people against pushes i feel are too strong while not actually being all that great of a resource on the target in question.
like, i think back to defcon and it occurs to me that im probably just hipshooting my feelings about how lynchable he is as town based on what happened there.

like, here it feels like he looks at a post, feels like its scummy and then decides on reasoning to justify that feeling and that process of deciding on reasoning doesnt really line up with where the feeling is actually coming from.
but if i reach back to my memory of his towngame in defcon, then i honestly just remember him being abrasive and not agreeing with his reasoning for reads at all.

am i totally off-base in that impression of his towngame?

p-edit: holy fuck q.q

[Gorkington]

i should probably just reread SAD-defcon.

[Gorkington]

some of the rhetoric in this game is getting really boring btw.

you can keep saying "y nobody vote person" "omg wagon not happening i am sad" and "this person is scummzz post bad scum wowow"
but its not going to change anything and is padding the content of the game.

i get im a total hypocrite because im a jokey fuck who posts too much.
but lets not drive this game's pagecount to 100 on absolutely nothing of value.

i dont have the same kind of time that i used to and if i get apathetic im going to be useless. please dont get me there.

[Gorkington]

im not voting R&A again today.
and theyre also probably town.

p-edit: sakura, unless scum is all in 1-2 neighborhoods, theyre going to know who's in all of the neighborhoods.

[Gorkington]

anti probably isnt going to punish people for using neighborhoods?

Okay, choose one of Rem and Ram, Rick and Andrea or Ser Arthur Dayne.

We lynch them and Day 1's done.

okay yeah.
im getting more annoyed about this.
how about you explain literally any read on there.
because i just isodived your R&A read and it was literally nothing.

[Gorkington]

yeah thanks that is what im going for here.

[Gorkington]

Gorkington

SAD has claimed to not be moving off of Titus today

All the while he's been finding everything under the sun about ME that he can paint as scummy and hasn't justified the Titus scum read at all

Does this not bother you

Along with everything else I've pointed out about him?

his read on you is pretty terrible.
thats probably the only thing thats resonating with me.

we could talk it out, but i dont really think itll be productive right now.

[Gorkington]

not really spiff.

[Gorkington]

actually i guess i feel like titus could be scum, but i havent tried seriously parsing vot's posts in a while so theres that.

[Gorkington]

its pretty obviously fake.

[Gorkington]

what happened to ignoring people that dont matter?

[Gorkington]

I agree btw with whoever said Cheetory might be scum he's really not in this game at all he would've been more engaged by now.

right.

[Gorkington]

also, the lurkers are probably a good spot for scum to be hiding, so i disagree really hard with sad there and hes probably protecting a scummate there if he is scum.

[Gorkington]

like, seriously, lets talk about how disengaged i was in like 75% of defcon.
did you read after you died?
or is this just dumb mindless posturing to push me off balance now that a bunch of people are giving me shit?

should i even bother asking or are you just going to ignore questions as per your apparent MO this game.

[Gorkington]

im really tired tonight.

[Gorkington]

yeah thats why im mad because youre expressing your opinion.
:')

[Gorkington]

how dare you.
come into this fucking game.
and express.
your god damn opinion.
you mother fucker im gonna make you regret.
having the audacity.
to think that you HAVE THE RIGHt.
TO EXPRESS YOURSELF HERE
ASDOIFHSDFKJDFKJHKDJFDKFJKDJF

[Gorkington]

nah lets put less life into you instead.

vote: sad

[Gorkington]

im the sketchy uninvested scumguy coming to mislynch u bro here i come.

[Gorkington]

if your goal is to make everyone super fucking apathetic youre doing a great job.
keep up the good work.

[Gorkington]

"cheet would be more invested"
"i was pretty uninvested in most of defcon, thoughts?"
"wow u mad bro?"

yeah its the lack of reaction to the vote im upset about and not your stupid avoidance of anything actually fucking related to the game.

[Gorkington]

im actually much more likely to try and parse things through with someone if they talk with me.
rhetoric and ignoring me are probably my two biggest pet peeves in all of mafia.
push rhetoric or ignore my questions and expect me to be really fucking annoyed at you.

[Gorkington]

did you want me to setup spec here too?
because i cant because it doesnt apply in the same way.
if i had setup info to parse, i would probably walk through it in a similar way i did there here and be obviously town for it.

people started doubting i was town after that point because i got apathetic.
almost as if when i get muddled, i dont post as obviously towny for a bit.

[Gorkington]

i troll more when i play on this account.
i play this account more because i tend to hate playing and being stupid makes this game barely bearable.

[Gorkington]

Why do half the people who play mafia not actually like mafia?

idfk.

Again, what do you with the information/answers I provided to your questions?

go back to flopping around and being apathetic.

[Gorkington]

okay have fun reading interactions and waiting for people.
im gonna go drink until my brain stops processing this garbage.

[Gorkington]

i seriously dont understand why some people become so fucking unbearably unpleasant when they play mafia.

[Gorkington]

did you know that all of the effort you put into that post is going to be worth approximately nothing?

[Gorkington]

i thought you were busy reading people's interactions.
:')

[Gorkington]

I didn't want to wagon Arthur, because Arthur is a strong player, and I sincerely believe that a wagon on scumArthur will create good and towny responses from Arthur that will get him townread.

This is town-thinking.

lol.

[Gorkington]

his opening this game is so different from basically everything in defcon.
the way he presents reads is also like.. dramatically different.
its way more showy here.
like "this is scum, this post is scum, this is scum"
vs
"i think this person may be scum for x" and thats even without prompting in most cases.
feels like he cares more about how hes being perceived.

spends an equal amount of time in defcon making people feel like shit :')
no idea why he would get lynched more often than average!

hes also full of shit on the "i dont know what youre talking about with regard to the apathy and not seeming as town stuff" cuz this is a thing:

This kinda describes you too.

You had really good posts in the beginning that looked like you were scumhunting, then turned into general gliding. 1856 was particularly bad.

:v
i guess on some level its consistent in that he could have forgotten about that and compared my good moments in defcon vs me having my head in the game here?

i have to agree that while he was pretty antagonistic in defcon, he wasnt anywhere near as anti-team building and self-centered in the same way as he is here.
theres basically nothing on the level of "only my reads matter eat shit rest of town haha"
and theres at least attempts to build wagons.
where this game it just kind of feels more like hes posturing and dancing about over how hes on good wagons.
feels different.

Sadly this is why I barely give explanations anymore most people are logical or tonal or meta reads.

you explained yourself more this game than you ever did in defcon.
and yes, before you say it, this is in reference to instances where you were NOT specifically asked to explain yourself.
so i dont really get why youre acting like youre doing something different this game in one way when its actually the complete opposite.

MoI's 593 reads bad so many red flags for starters why is he outting the neighborhood and second of all why is he voting someone before a catchup on such a weak logic as having a differing opinion and generalizing scum in such a broad way ("I think every scum wouldn't wanna use the neighborhood, and anyone who opposes it must be scum!")

But let's be real is there ever a time when I didn't scumread MoI we are just not compatible people at least in the way we approach the game so this might be one of his crazy thinking style.

Cool to see you're OMGUS reading me Titus.

Or does it.

Strengthening a scumread from "let's see where this goes" to "I want to lynch" is also an OMGUS. So you put me at somewhere lean scum I guess (the first post you quoted doesn't even say I'm scum it says you don't know if I'm town or scum - which is literally the only 2 alignments I have no idea what the point of that post was, and second is such a wishy-wash non commital read). But then I went to super hardcore scum when I called out your obvscum posting.

these engages with people he thinks are scum feel overly different from defcon in general.
like he cares more about appeasing these people while also pushing them.
i kind of feel like townSad doesnt even bother with these kinds of engages with people he thinks are scum.

Does anyone have a problem with this list???

Otherwise I want a result on one of those 3 people tomorrow from Something Special.

I need the FIGHTER to target Something Special. If he has anything other than cop, you claim tomorrow in your first post. If he has cop you be quiet and not claim. If everyone has posted and no claim, then we assume either fighter is scum, both something special and fighter is scum, or something special is town cop.

We need RADAR to target Nahdia. If she targets any player at all, you are to claim in your first post. Otherwise we assume Nahdia didn't target anyone, or that Radar and/or Nahdia is scum.

Nahdia, if you are town, don't use your ability.

Something Special, you are to investigate one of the people above (unless people want the list modified) and give a result your first post. If you are roleblocked you say that in your first post.

the aversion to the idea of working with others in this game seems kind of forced/at odds with how im seeing his play in defcon.

theres also that, as ive said already, i completely hate his spiffread and the angles hes pushing on it.
i dont know if hating the reasoning there makes him scum, but pretty much every point hes pushed there is just really really bad. i also agree with spiff that there really isnt any kind of like.. complete double down on a read with the same consistent level of confidence that he has here on titus.

and looking at his titusread:
you have "she is omgusing"
and people avoiding voting her.

defconSad maybe mentions wagon composition once and it isnt something that it seems like he particularly cares about at all.

sad's probably scum.

[Gorkington]

nah thats definitely true.
fire would do that.

[Gorkington]

theres probably four scum right?

the only way scum doesnt know who is in what neighborhood is if there are at least two neighborhoods with no scum.

not entirely impossible, but like, not likely?

and then anti has basically made it so scum just has to look for who has stronger connections/interactions than they should.

theres also that i dont think anti is a gimmicky mod.

[Gorkington]

unvote

vla until saturday

[Gorkington]

why do you think sad is scum titus

[Gorkington]

last three points feel like theyre kind of rendered pretty useless by his wagon analysis.

if hes very confident that youre scum, do you really think sad is going to attack people that help the wagon on you happen as its happening?

there are many slots saying sad is town.
does that make your vote on him scummy?

[Gorkington]

and my opinion on creature is that i dislike his playstyle.
and that hes probably a d3/d4 sort.

i can look at both of their isos to see if you have a point sometime this week, but if youre out to lunch there, im going to be looking at you extra critically when im off vla.

[Gorkington]

Anyway I'll respond to the other Titus bs when I get home and not on mobile.

i dont really think this will be productive, btw.

[Gorkington]

if sad is scum, i do not think he sees you as a threat here.

[Gorkington]

like, i think youre stretching pretty hard with some of your reasoning.
which is fine.
we all do it.

but i dont look at your points and think "oh yeah maybe sad is scum".
and im coming from a place of still being incredibly wary of him.
so if this is genuinely townTitus trying to organize things, you should take a step back, organize your thoughts on him into something particularly tangible/easy for people to digest and then push it.
otherwise youre just making waves and giving sad noise to respond to.

[Gorkington]

it makes sense for sad generating content by pushing a wagon on someone its easy to attack.
i dont think its arguable that youre a very easy target.

p-edit: no one strongly.
which is why im trying to take a break.
im only chiming in because i dont like how much this is probably going to pointlessly explode the thread if it keeps going.

[Gorkington]

im not voting someone out of utility short of a deadline crunch.
i'll have strong reads when i make time to read individual ISOs and make time to really think about it.
not by sheeping people.

and if i was going to sheep someone it would probably be fire atm.

[Gorkington]

and my opinion on creature is that i dislike his playstyle.

actually i take this back.
i actually liked him admitting that he exaggerated reads on purpose for reactions.
that felt kind of townish.

[Gorkington]

seemed like he just didnt get anything from it.
i mean, if he was scum, why not just make up results from it?

[Gorkington]

<3
take a break man.

youll feel better.

[Gorkington]

seriously fire just shut down mafiascum for a day or two and come back.
game's not going anywhere.

[Gorkington]

i would honestly be shocked if fire was scum here, btw.

[Gorkington]

fuck it.
im getting invested again.

calling vla off.

vote: beeboy

[Gorkington]

Gorkington - He feels more engaged then what I have seen from him before. Although that is kinda falling off a bit.

what does this mean.

Rem and Ram - Starting to change my mind on this slot a few of there posts seem kinda odd for scum to make I'd elaborate but I have 10 minutes to make this post before I get stuck mobile posting.

please do.

Voices of Truth - I don't like how the TB slot is literally MIA but seeing Titus under pressure is making me think she is town and she has dropped the entire buddying thing.

more words on this.

Will be interested to see if people also go off on this in the next few pages as they did with me

im a national treasure, so probably not.

[Gorkington]

vecna, why are you literally doing nothing.

[Gorkington]

i was town in both of those games.
why is a discrepancy in my behavior leaving you with a townread?

[Gorkington]

what exactly are the aspects of titus vs sad that youre feeling mean towntitus.
idc if you need to wait until youre not at phone to answer this.

[Gorkington]

im just not sure what the point was of bringing up those two games was?
like.
your point is that im being engaged this game which seems town to you.
but then you use me being demotivated as town as a reference point, which doesnt really fit the point youre trying to make in the first place.

what exactly would you be expecting from my scumgame if youre townreading engagement but would think me being disengaged would match your experience with me as town?

[Gorkington]

hs.
are you seriously comparing
a game where creature has 30 posts as scum
to a game where creature has 225 posts as town?

because youre not helping the point youre trying to dismantle at all.

[Gorkington]

i still also really feel like creature pretending to have stronger scumreads than he actually had to get reactions is just a level of thinking that someone who's apparently a lurker-scum that cant make real sounding posts wouldnt be on right now.
i dont understand how anyone can object to putting creature sort on the backburner and if hes scum i will literally take whatever comes from that when it comes to that.

vecna, beeboy and quartzslot are the only places i would seriously consider lynching right now.

p-edit: -.-

[Gorkington]

reading the scumgame.
its so bad.
how are you even comparing it to this?
lol

[Gorkington]

ive seen fire mention that creature doesnt seem like hes sorting people which is maybe an okay point? towngame does mention him being overly concerned with not having reads on significant portions of the playerlist.
but at the very least it seems like there may have been attempts to do so this game.

i really dont see it.

[Gorkington]

He was asking me in our neighbourhood who we should be pressuring, I told him Titus.....and poof in he comes and just votes Titus out of the blue no questions asked. Why bring that attention onto yourself like that as scum?

:v

if you want me to seriously consider creature as scum on basis of meta, youre going to need to link me a game where he actually does something.
and doesnt just jump on and off wagons without any reasoning.

because that isnt what hes doing here.

[Gorkington]

in other news, im pretty on the same page as fire about beeboy's reads being really fluffy.

especially disliked that it seemed like he was padding reads with extra reasoning to make them look more substantial than they actually are.

[Gorkington]

i was using your quote as a reference point as to why i disagreed with r&r.

[Gorkington]

your gimmick is too strong to read through and i have a lot of townleans.

[Gorkington]

choo choo

vote: vecna

[Gorkington]

@marquis

, we should condense reads if/when you catch up.

[Gorkington]

firebringer bussing bs

vecna jumps on firebringer for saying that he would be bussing yume if they were scummates

moi says that its scum discrediting because vecna is wrong.
im not sure i understand the distinction of why this isnt townvecna vs scumvecna being wrong.
maybe that hes being lazier than he might be as town in trying to parse what firebringer is saying?

setup spec bs nonsense crap

vecna says moi extrapolated mod meta based on one game and based on those conclusions decided to out the neighborhood without finishing the discussion

moi says that he said in the pt that he had referenced three games [including the two prequels] as data points for his extrapolation, making it more concrete and that vecna misleading that point is sketchy.
i dont agree with his point about people not wanting to out the neighborhoods being scum.
i dont think people being illogical/wrong/incorrect/etc necessitates them being scum.
i think moi has been pretty clear in his explanations as to why being concerned about the neighborhoods being outted is probably silly, and other people have also expressed these views too.
i think vecna clinging to his reasoning here looks kind of bad with how clear so many people have made it that it would be unlikely for antihero to put something like that into this setup.

Ill rephrase what you said in the PT to counter this nonsense;
-You said it was based on a quick read of 2 threads.
-One that didnt use similair mechanics, and 1 that also used neighbourhoods pt.
-you stated you didnt read the third thread.

is this a literal transcript of what happened in there moi?
can i get a literal rundown of what point you were making and how it was being made?
[like just a literal "this post happened, then this post happened, i posted this with this in mind", none of the "vecna is a scumface"-stuff]

i dont particularly like how there seems to be a literal discrepancy between accounts in the neighborhood.
might need third party in that neighborhood to weigh in with their thoughts if it isnt resolved.

The fact youre so certain that this isnt the case should show people that you know more than you really let on here

if you are town please dont make points like this one again.

[Gorkington]

overall i get the vibe that moi is being overly confident about something that maybe isnt necessarily all that tangible to anyone but him, but i feel that he probably maybe actually believes it?
i usually tend to look at moi earlygame and hope hes town unless i find something that makes me incredibly confident so this is probably not something worth sheeping in general.
but as of right now im leaning town there just on gut on how hes been pushing stuff this game so far.

meanwhile, there are moments where vecna's frustration kind of rings true [especially with him being frustrated over his gimmick being scapegoated], but also definite moments of "wow look how wrong moi he is scum" that feels artificial and forced.

and yes i realize that both of them are doing this.
but im tending to believe it less coming from vecna here.

[Gorkington]

yeah im pretty confident that vecna is the one taking stuff out of context there.

[Gorkington]

i think theres a bit of a pattern of him being lazy with his approach in solving stuff that moi has a point about.
i get that omgus is a thing, but i just get this feeling from vecna's push on moi that reminds me of when ive been scum annoyed at people pushing me calling someone scum.

[Gorkington]

no.
ive been pushed before as someone ive perceived as stubborn/wrong/unreasonable when i was scum though.
and vecna feels like hes coming from that place.

i dont think moi being the person in the drivers seat there should discredit any and all arguments towards him being scum.

[Gorkington]

i dont understand what point im trying to make about vecna being scum youre addressing by saying you dislike the way moi makes pushes.
because im not sheeping moi on the merit of him being right about things.

[Gorkington]

like you yourself saying that its no more different than random chance, so why is it NEGATIVELY affecting it?
thats entirely different.

[Gorkington]

if you dont want to support a wagon because you dont want to support moi because you dislike him, fine.
but dont try to pretend like thats a rational argument.

p-edit: i said i agreed with him that vecna's approach is lazy.
that isnt me giving an entire approval of his case.

[Gorkington]

i could easily vote VOT too.

[Gorkington]

lol.
isnt it hypocritical for you to complain about creating anti-town noise with a tunnel when you were literally doing that with vot earlier?

[Gorkington]

i said that vecna is scummy because of the way hes responding to moi.
it feels way more like hes angry scum than angry town with a scumread.

p-edit: what if vecna is scum too?
-.-

gahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[Gorkington]

I DONT WANT YOUR SCUM COOKIES TITUS YOU PROBABLY PUT POISON IN THEM

[Gorkington]

yeah okay.
lets dismiss all of my points because generic reasons that dont mean anything yeayayayayyayayayayayayayay

p-edit: lol
you sure you want to do this titus?

[Gorkington]

ill give you one post to change your mind.

[Gorkington]

vote: vot

titus is claiming scum so lets do this instead.

im invoking my mafiaception titus-reading credentials.
and her calling me scum there is just so fucking out to lunch that its really just clearly scum titus.

trust me.

[Gorkington]

guys lets just stop with the vecna shit.
and the sad/moi being mad at each other shit.

and lynch scum.

because titus is literally scum.

[Gorkington]

oh and sad dont try to do the reaction test thing because scum will have read the op like i have.

no more distractions.

its time for a VOT lynch.

[Gorkington]

i really dont know why you put yourself in these kinds of positions titus.
short of vecna being your scumbuddy.
which is pretty likely IMO.

[Gorkington]

scum can faketunnel. lol

dont even try titus.
youre fucking done lol.

[Gorkington]

spiff was in mafiaception.
hes going to back me up here.

marquis was in mafiaception.
hes going to back me up here.

youre done.

[Gorkington]

titus why did you seriously think you could fake a push on me this game?

like.

im not even uninvested.

so bad.

[Gorkington]

Spiffeh actually is paragon and TRs me.

yeah wait till he comes back and sees what you just tried.

[Gorkington]

d1 lynch activate gogogogogogo

[Gorkington]

titus would not call me scum if she was town here.
trust me.

i'll make a motivational picture for you to sheep me.

[Gorkington]

now accepting positions on the fellowship.

[Gorkington]

this is like textbook what she did in mafiaception.

[Gorkington]

Titus did same thing to me in many other games when I considered myself Uber conf town.

fine i'll try not to be insufferable while also wanting to rage murder titusslot.

what are examples.

[Gorkington]

i feel like im reading a different game than people.

[Gorkington]

if marquis and spiff come in here and agree with me about titus i reserve the right to be the most offensively awful person in trying to get titus lynched.

[Gorkington]

i thought it was because i "slipped".

(:

[Gorkington]

you have no idea how hard it is to not engage you when you do stuff like this as scum.

[Gorkington]

Yet, good luck with getting this group to agree on anything.

we can get everyone else to agree to lynch you instead!
(:

[Gorkington]

you should really keep pushing this flavor of the month thing.

[Gorkington]

Do nothing while town rips itself apart and then whine when suspected and OMGUS.

mfw ank has never done this.

Nah, you cannot call SaD's play anti-town and argue he's right at the same time. He's commenting on other slots now and being less anti-town.

You just acted like you knew I was town. Cookie offer was a test. You failed.

Gork's sheeper scum.

this is hot garbage still.

[Gorkington]

Like, you seriously think you can post garbage like TR me right now or else and expect to dodge a near slip? Ok.

literally no where have i said youre town or implied it.
ever.

and you pretty clearly know it because you dropped this point.
when me slipping would clearly be something more compelling than me apparently "sheeping the flavor of the day!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

[Gorkington]

Gork says your tunnel is as Anti town as MoIs. Tunnels are only anti-town if the target is town. Thus Gork says I am town.

like, its so clearly obvious that the MANNER in which sad was pushing it was antitown.
in that he was continually engaging you and letting you respond to shit that was just cluttering the thread with garbage and not convincing anyone.

im pretty sure youre smart enough to understand this.

[Gorkington]

Like your posts here are? All you're doing is implying that everyone who disagrees with you is a piece of shit. You're breaking Fire. You're avoiding the concerns about you just picking on popular wagons. When all else fails willingly become a toxic asshole, or as you put it deliberately intending to be "insufferable".

Like I just won't deal with that unless my townreads need me to. I am not going to let town suffer because you're a toxic asshole. Sorry.

okay.
i'll eat that ive been kind of a piece of shit.

and as of the post you quoted, i was kind of having some doubts in what i was saying. ie: the manner in which you poked me just seemed so out of left field that i didnt take the time to slow down and understand where you could potentially actually be coming from.
like.
im really town this game titus.
and to boil my play down to one post and say "THIS IS SCUMMMMMMM"
just is the sort of thing that begs a reactionary response.
especially since my play earlygame was also dictated by how i play as town, you were townreading it and nothing has changed. im not someone who is hard to read.

so i just kind of assumed you were pulling something like in mafiaception, pulling something that doesnt matter to try and discredit me and push me off balance because you thought it was a good idea there. i guess its pretty arrogant for me to assume that me having you and vecna as a scumread would be a legit reason for you to do that, unless the gamescape is so bad right now, i kind of feel like you probably would think better than to do that as scum. [though i kind of also think you would know better than to poke me like you did here as town, but that probably just means i need to stop and reflect].

im frankly not breaking fire.
at all.
in fact ive gone pretty out of my way to not be a piece of shit to firebringer through all of this.

there frankly is no concern as to whether im going after easy targets.
i'll go after whoever i want whenever i want.
if i think someone is scum, it doesnt matter if its someone easy to go after.
i also frankly dont think sad is someone it was easy to go after, even if the general sentiment was there.
i also also frankly dont think firebringer was someone that would be particularly easy to go after in the long run.
are my reads easy targets on d1?
yes.
they usually are.
better players are harder to sort.
which is why most of them are sitting at null or townlean for me.
i imagine this is also why youre not voting or seriously pushing me. because hey, im a hard lynch, yes? and realistically you should at least have a shred of doubt because beyond my "slip" there are so many things ive done this game that i would literally NEVER DO AS SCUM. it really isnt hard to differentiate those sorts of things. im not going to drop a level of genuineness in the same way in this game with a scum rolePM.
i dont get this invested as scum.
i dont get driven to try and sort and parse because i want to win.
i play to survive as scum.
this is not me playing to survive right now.
and i would not be reaching out to you here as scum.

i was not deliberately insufferable on purpose.
i got an adrenaline rush. it happens occasionally when i get a read that i actually really like. when i feel like ive actually solved something i want to scream and shout and rub scum's face in it.
i actually spent a significant portion of yesterday trying not to post in the thread BECAUSE i knew i was being insufferable.

in any case.

unvote

[Gorkington]

nah

vote: beeboy

sure.

[Gorkington]

im frankly not breaking fire.

ive considered that this might not be true and he might just be humoring me.
but i did try my best in my state of mind yesterday to try and not be a total fuckbag at him while also feeling frustrated that he wasnt agreeing with me while i was feeling the way i was.
which might have still been kind of shitty.
oh well.
i clearly just need to assume my moments of inspiration are probably stupid and fleeting for a reason.

[Gorkington]

@ANTI

kur0r requested replacement before steven if youre not currently looking for a replacement for him right now.

[Gorkington]

man it sure is fun when literally everyone just says "lynch this person" or "dont lynch this person".
it really is hard to justify my vote when im getting so convinced elsewhere.
:')

[Gorkington]

hs.
are you seriously comparing
a game where creature has 30 posts as scum
to a game where creature has 225 posts as town?

because youre not helping the point youre trying to dismantle at all.

i still also really feel like creature pretending to have stronger scumreads than he actually had to get reactions is just a level of thinking that someone who's apparently a lurker-scum that cant make real sounding posts wouldnt be on right now.
i dont understand how anyone can object to putting creature sort on the backburner and if hes scum i will literally take whatever comes from that when it comes to that.

vecna, beeboy and quartzslot are the only places i would seriously consider lynching right now.

p-edit: -.-

reading the scumgame.
its so bad.
how are you even comparing it to this?
lol

ive seen fire mention that creature doesnt seem like hes sorting people which is maybe an okay point? towngame does mention him being overly concerned with not having reads on significant portions of the playerlist.
but at the very least it seems like there may have been attempts to do so this game.

i really dont see it.

He was asking me in our neighbourhood who we should be pressuring, I told him Titus.....and poof in he comes and just votes Titus out of the blue no questions asked. Why bring that attention onto yourself like that as scum?

:v

if you want me to seriously consider creature as scum on basis of meta, youre going to need to link me a game where he actually does something.
and doesnt just jump on and off wagons without any reasoning.

because that isnt what hes doing here.

ive been pretty vocal about my dislike for creaturewagon and nobody has given me an example of a scumgame of his where his content wasnt literally entirely useless.
theres also that HS is pretty out to lunch if he thinks that creature's activity this game has been non-existent. its halfway through d1 and he has over 100 posts.

now do me the courtesy of explaining why beeboy is town instead of getting all bent out of shape over me getting annoyed by a general trend of lazy posting in this game.

[Gorkington]

I agree with Beeboy's reads a lot, and can clearly see how they progressed, and when they're wrong, I think it's because they're reading the situation wrong/differently, as opposed to construing a read.
Esp. like the Spiffeh townread in 801, that kind of thinking doesn't come from scum.

what is your impression of beeboy's scumgame?

[Gorkington]

zzzzz

vote: creature

[Gorkington]

we could also talk about how byf and r&r are being a lot townier than you are in these interactions.

[Gorkington]

or did you just want to throw out generalities still like "look at all of the other wagons that arent happening"?
which is pretty expected in a game with this much personality.

theres also that youre not actually questioning me anything.
just kind of shouting to everyone else "hey look at this wow look at it please question it please".

[Gorkington]

sad are you still scumreading titus

[Gorkington]

she meant that i was voting wherever it was popular to be voting.

[Gorkington]

Spoiler:

I'm scummy here:

BigYoshiFan also looks bad.

Then towny here:

Just bolding non-striked so you can all see:

Ser Arthur Dayne

MagnaofIllusion
Gorkington
Spiffeh

Rem and Ram (Alisae and Human Sequencer)

Sakura Hana

Rick and Andrea (Firebringer and MariaR)

Vifam

kuror0

Vecna
Voices of Truth (Titus and Thinkbig)

Majiffy

BigYoshiFan
beeboy

Steven Quartz

Creature

Marquis

Then... this.

VOTE: BYF

Meanwhile

Feel like mod missed the vote before

radar
He's flying under the

This is his read on me.

Maybe BYF thinks this is valid, but it's just NAI shit, and scum likes to incriminate town with NAI shit.

Are you trying to accuse me of something? Hmmmmmm?
Also, RR told someone to ISO you and give an opinion of your read on me.
I thought I'd make it easier on them.

Is there anything to your read on me that I missed?

reminder to explain your read development here please and thank you.

[Gorkington]

I had a slight townread on Gork earlier but I don't really feel as good about him as I did before

how much of this game have you read?
i promise this isnt meant to be passive aggressive.

[Gorkington]

it probably should.

[Gorkington]

i dont really care about this wagon's composition atm.

[Gorkington]

fuk u firebringer be serious

[Gorkington]

i might vote beeboy if you keep being stupid about the creature wagon.

[Gorkington]

@ali not fire

[Gorkington]

me giving you lame thoughts for free youre welcome:

i dont really want to lynch creature today.
though, i think he deserves a revisit eventually.

not touching titus for now.
tb not being here is fine.

r&r are slowly slipping to null/scumlean.
i liked hs being overly cheery, but i feel like some of their pushes have been overly exaggerated and the defense of beeboy by ali feels wonky given that seemed more like hs's read than ali's?
worried that i let them buddy me into leaning town there before.

if vot is town, ank is more likely to be scum.

spiff needs to come back. or im going to start putting up missing posters. have you seen this mouse? call this number if you have. insert paint drawing here.

hi nahdia.

[Gorkington]

youre supposed to get mad that im still voting you.

[Gorkington]

theres lots of time left. i dont see a particular rush to drive the game to lynch, especially when theres going to be three new perspectives in the game.

[Gorkington]

enjoy the long haul bb.

[Gorkington]

its a sliver of a doubt. not shiver. :s

[Gorkington]

You're possible.
Dayne's getting likelier by the minute.
Gork's a maybe.
No idea on Nahdia or Mastina yet.

so me/creature/vifam/dayne are your scumreads?
and nahdia/mastin are nullreads?

[Gorkington]

ie: are you saying that everyone else is townlean or higher?

[Gorkington]

vote: rem and ram

honestly i feel pretty demotivated by how youre pushing this creature wagon jiffy.
and i think a big part of it is that i feel like its entirely pointless to even try and discuss things with you because youre just going to hit me on the head with "creature is scum u dummy" even if i try to articulate reasons why i think hes townish, reasons why i think the wagon might not be the best or reasons i disagree with your push in particular.

it just feels like im talking to a wall and the wall is simultaneously calling me a dummy for trying to talk to it.

if i brought up a genuinely good point for why creature wasnt scummy, would you listen to it? or would i just get the stock response of "why are you not voting creature?" and i get that sometimes you feel good about a read and you want people to sheep you on it, but i just think the length of time that this has gone on is getting kind of tiring.

theres also that even if you are right, youre still making me feel uninvested in the game. i want to work through stuff, not be handed reads and told to vote based on those reads that i was handed. i could be wrong, but that could also be a factor on why not many people are sheeping you on creature. youre talking at them and telling them to vote him instead of trying to actually convince them. and theres some part of me that feels like the complete and utter insistence and ridiculous drive to get him lynched is possibly more likely town than not? or at least i would be a little impressed if you were letting your frustration with not being sheeped drive your play this strongly as scum.

in spite of the image you linked earlier, this game isnt the jiffy-gets-a-read-and-people-sheeps-till-dead-game. not everyone is coming from the same place as you here.
i guess you could keep going until people throw their hands up in the air and say "okay we lynch one of majiffy/creature because this is fucking distracting". but its going to be really unfun if it gets there.

i dont know if i have a point in all of this.
just these are my thoughts right now.
that ive been trying to not say because theyre probably pointless.

[Gorkington]

the more i hear this sentiment from hs that this is "LITERALLY CREATURE'S WORD FOR WORD" when its really clearly not,
the more i just think this is grandstanding.
especially since i literally asked him to explain why i was wrong for feeling like the referenced game was just him jumping from vote to vote without reason.
when hes clearly not just doing that here.
theres more content.
more potential for actual thought process.
if your argument is that hes gotten better since the referenced scumgame then, neat. make that argument and make it more convincing.
but saying this is scumcreature is not convincing at all and im pretty tired of the clutter in this game that is just "CREWAUTURE IS DA SCUM DIE DIE DIE".

you have spiff coming in here and saying that this doesnt seem like scumcreature. you have firebringer who says this is different from ordinary scumcreature. you have a lot of resistance to the wagon saying this is not standard scumcreature. maybe theres a point there? in which case maybe you should stop pushing that same point without addressing it directly instead of just posturing about it over and over and over and over again because it really just is starting to feel like youre generating a lot of noise with nothing to actually stand on reason-wise.

[Gorkington]

seems weird to take me at face value on that vs actually digging deeper. are you intending on reading anything before now gin?

[Gorkington]

oh duh im fucking dumb. ignore me.

[Gorkington]

moi. do you think you generally have a good track record of reading SAD?

[Gorkington]

I WISH VIFAM WOULD STOP POSTING COMPLETE AND UTTER TRITE ALL THE GOD DAMN TIME.

[Gorkington]

I'll try im sorry pal

i cant stay fake mad at you.

wheres your head at. if you could throw three people in this game into the garbage compactor because you think theyre scum, who would they be.

p-edit: i mean.
there are some people who would say that the d2 defcon sad lynch was terrible.
and i think before d2 he was a pretty bad push.

i just have heard him talk about you not being particularly great at reading him in the past a lot.
i would think that might give you a moment's pause at least?
especially since sad isnt really coming across as scummy to most people?

[Gorkington]

ive only glanced at the last fg dancing game and saw that sad is generally pretty good at scum. i think he was maybe a little more melodramatic there? but i really shouldnt be trusted on that because im riding on gut/skimming there.

[Gorkington]

@moi, yeah i dont know. i remember on d2 it felt right just cause of the connection that i thought was there with SS. i think purely on his play alone, sad in isolation felt town to me that game and i remember just not really agreeing with the angles you were pushing there on d1. im a sucker for connections to scumbuddies. its one of those points that can be really tangible for me, so d2 i was pretty much on the same page as you on that merit. but i think in terms of like.. reading SAD by play, its evidently more difficult than either of us would have expected in defcon? and i guess i would have thought that hesitance would have translated to here instead of the same kind of murder-feels that i saw in that game for him. i just think from where the gamestate is currently at, youre going to struggle to get 4-5 votes on sad even if you make a good case there today. so making a lot of noise about it seems counterproductive to me. certain kinds of players dont go down easy on d1, sad is definitely one of those players. so even if he is scum here it just seems to me like youre wasting your time and im kind of confused why you feel SO confident about him when i feel like beyond singular moments of inspiration, i feel overly unconfident in my ability to read sad in general.

that might be a lot of word vomit that can be simplified down to "im surprised youre so confident about your read and im not confident about mine".

[Gorkington]

Maybe that's bad of me ... but I think it is how I have to best manage the situation.

i think as long as you try to be honest about why youre playing the way youre playing, it isnt a big deal. its when rhetoric kind of explodes into this ridiculous spectacle that the game gets pretty boring for me. i appreciate that youre kind of unpacking where youre coming from here in general though. it at least makes me feel like youre hopefully town lol.

can we maybe talk shop about our personal strongest two scumreads sometime in the near future and really try to dig into where we're both coming from? will maybe help both of us get to a stronger place reads-wise.

[Gorkington]

is it really fair to reference meta from 3-4 years ago in that regard?

[Gorkington]

if(ankamius.Thinks("vecna will write again") && !ankamius.CanBeAssed())
{
ankamius.SetMistakenValue(true);
ankamius.SetMistakenModifier("very much");
}

if(vecna.Thinks("ank will crawl over game") && !vecna.WillShowReasoning())
{
vecna.SetMistakenValue(true);
vecna.SetMistakenModifier("just as");
}

im worried this wont compile.

[Gorkington]

my reads were bad, there was a wagon and i disliked creature's engage with byf/r&r at the time.

[Gorkington]

was townleaning r&r at the time and they were implying they had super hard meta on beeboy being town.

[Gorkington]

my reads were bad

i was in that fun place of "wow i cant play mafia for shit" for a bit and just wanted to coast until i felt better.

[Gorkington]

i could lynch jiffy for how shit his engagement this game is.

[Gorkington]

spiff's scum too eh?
anyone else want to be a scumread of jiffy's?
just say the creature wagon is bad!
its that simple!

[Gorkington]

I would like explanations.

no you wouldnt.
you wouldnt have shrugged me off like you just did if you gave a shit.

[Gorkington]

theres apparently also earlygame vca!
because thats definitely one of his legitimate points.
one that if uncountered, should leave no reason for creature to stay alive at this junction!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Gorkington]

see you guys d2!

[Gorkington]

such is the stuff of dreams/d2-lynches nahdia.
our day will come.

[Gorkington]

Gorkington if you're still voting for him I will have words for you

i can change to vote for him if you'd like?
would be the first time in a while that anyone has cared what my thoughts are

[Gorkington]

im lukewarm for that idea, sure.
or at least im pretty solid with the idea of a wagon there.

[Gorkington]

Lol now everyone shows up to defend Creature all at once

woops we should have tried to be more subtle about it!

[Gorkington]

{Creature, Vifam, SAD,

Gork

, Spiffeh, Nahdia}

okay which one of you five is the townie.
lemme know because once you claim town we've got this game solved yo.
thanks!

[Gorkington]

btw: you may claim town by voting for creature.
thats how this works right?

[Gorkington]

which one?
sorry im sometimes stupid about these sorts of things.

[Gorkington]

spiff are you the other townie?

[Gorkington]

I have more books like the one I threw at Mastin

i like books.
im reading a book called mr. fox right now by helen oyeyemi.
im not sure what i think about it so far.

i actually have a queue of books right now so the book you throw at me might have to wait a little while if thats okay?
the other books in my queue are standing in another man's grave: rebus is back by ian rankin, slaughterhouse five by kurt vonnegut, the hike by drew magary, steal like an artist by austin kleon, quiet: the power of introverts in a world that can't stop talking by susan cain and ishmael by daniel quinn.

[Gorkington]

am i not allowed to just not agree with your case on him?

like, i wont argue that im throwing together a case somewhere thats overly comprehensive, because im not.
but im not going to vote for a wagon with the intent of lynching someone if i dont feel like its going to flip scum?

[Gorkington]

and im pretty disinterested in engaging you on your reads after i reached out and you called me scum/ignored everything i had to say.
so.

[Gorkington]

this seems to be a trend.
of people just being fucking trash at me when i play.

i'll just actually shut the fuck up.
and you can literally eat my shit d2 if he flips town you stupid fuck.

[Gorkington]

here:
less chance of a counterwagon.

unvote

lynch creature.

if he flips town.

just be ready for what comes.

[Gorkington]

yeah because i was banned for how long?
are you sure it isnt just that this site has fucking garbage toxic people on it that seem to relish in abusing people who disagree with them?

golly gee willickers.

so fucking dumb.

[Gorkington]

Just sayin', if I didn't want to play a game I just wouldn't play it.

thats probably fair.
sorry.
i shouldnt have called you a fucking idiot.
even if i am really frustrated with you.

that was childish.