PIRATES v. NINJAS! Game Over!
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cicero Oratoreador
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Which means you arent disappointed at not getting to lynch her at all. You are thrilled that she got nightkilled. So you lied.
Or you want to waste the town's day on a personal (albeit understandable having wanted to pull my hair out while playing with her) vendetta. Your stated preference is that you hoped an extremely distracting player would stay alive so she could distract the town all day one. Which we both know results in a far less useful day one.
I see that as far scummier than say, Iammers, silly pirate yar that took up so much of the last 10 pages of, as Thesp so aptly put it, verbal diarrhea.-
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cicero Oratoreador
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I like DGB as a person. I found her extremely frustrating in the one game I was in with her. But that's neither here nor there. What is notable is TSQs approach to the issue. Not necessarily worth a vote yet though. I mean there's WIFOM, right. Flameaxe and TSQ are all "lets lynch DGB" and then she's dead. Which TSQ is too smart too have done unless he really is playing a WIFOM gamble and getting rid of a person he loathes. Which I CAN see him doing. I CANNOT see him actually wishing she was alive on day one so he could fuck with her. I think he takes his games more seriously than that.
So I think him saying that is bull.-
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I'll check your link but anti-town is anti-town. It's noted. I'm not voting based on it yet.Thestatusquo wrote:No, as happy as I am that she's not in the game anymore, I would take pleasure in lynching her. If you think it's "Scummy" or whatever, I have history of doing personal things in games before as town. Check out Bad idea II for an example.-
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Really?Flameaxe wrote:
Whoa whoa whoa. Where do I fit into this exactly? I have done no such thing, and I do not appreciate it.cicero wrote:I like DGB as a person. I found her extremely frustrating in the one game I was in with her. But that's neither here nor there. What is notable is TSQs approach to the issue. Not necessarily worth a vote yet though. I mean there's WIFOM, right. Flameaxe and TSQ are all "lets lynch DGB" and then she's dead. Which TSQ is too smart too have done unless he really is playing a WIFOM gamble and getting rid of a person he loathes. Which I CAN see him doing. I CANNOT see him actually wishing she was alive on day one so he could fuck with her. I think he takes his games more seriously than that.
So I think him saying that is bull.
And DGB ends up dead.Flameaxe wrote:
Confirm and /in.Thestatusquo wrote:Who's up for lynching DGB? Lets make a challenge of it and see if we can do it by page 4.
Frankly I wouldnt vote for either of you based on it alone because I pretty much assumed DGB's kill was designed to make you look bad. It was TSQ's response that made me raise my eyebrows a bit though.
But since you asked why you are implicated, now you know.-
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cicero Oratoreador
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right as opposed to your argument with... oh. right. Nevermind.Flameaxe wrote:
I don't plan on it. I can't let a dumbass run wild like that, taking advantage of whatever random pre-game posts he can get his hands on. This is just plain silly, and your argument with Shea is getting us nowhere.cicero wrote:
Yup. I'm a dumbass. No talent whatsoever. Go back under your rock now.Flameaxe wrote:Ok. Now THAT one is a stretch. Even for you this is bad C.-
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K. Your opinion is noted. And given all the importance it usually is.Flameaxe wrote:
Thats not the point. You are being a fucking dumbass, is all. Please, save us all. We get enough frustration from you as it is.cicero wrote:Incidentally, I'm not accusing you whatsoever flameaxe. The odds of you two being on the same team are too slim. Maybe you are misreading that.-
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Ive been waiting for the verbal diarrhea to settle down. There was enough throw down that I didnt feel like I could write anything sensible without it being either a) said already, or b) out of date by the time it got said. It really was speeding along for a while there and a lot of it did NOT impress me.Guardian wrote:Cicero, flameaxe...
Where the hell have you two been?
And why choose to interject on this issue, cicero? Have you read the thread, fully?
Flameaxe -- nothing important came up until you were attacked? And you find cicero's mention of youcompletelyout of place, given he mentioned tsq?
I have notes up to page 6 or 7 or so. TSQ's interjection was something I could actually flag that hadnt already been said or flagged.
This weekend I should be able to write something about what I think of this day so far which includes Iammers wagon, Gorrad wagon,Guardian attacks and Thesp attacks/wagon... etcetera.-
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That isnt my experience with you. When I say you take your games seriously it doesnt mean you dont have fun. It means I know in another game you have spoken about leaving your feuds out of the game. Now in this game you are bragging about bringing them in. So... lying then or lying now. Or do I just let you get away with it cuz "shhhh...ongoing?"Thestatusquo wrote:Cicero, I am axctually one of the least serious players on this site. I consider the game to be something for fun. Being uber serious about it only makes it not fun anymore. This is why PJ doesn't play anymore that much, I think.
Admittedly Im just getting to know you as a player, but as stupid as flameaxe clearly knows me to be, I know inconsistency when I see it. Even without inconsistency, like I said, I know anti-town when I see it.-
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Thanks for distinguishing. your distinction makes sense to me and I accept it. She can indeed be highly distracting.Thestatusquo wrote:Heh, First of all, bringing in ongoing games is meh. Second, ZA is a different case from DGB. ZA I hate OOG, thus I don't feel comfortable punishing him in game. DGB I hate in game, and am somewhat ambivalent about OOG. Therefore I feel fine taking active measures to get her out of a game I'm in. I will probably have to make the same push in the other game you're mentioning.
But that leads me back to seeing you killing her night zero.
See, I have trouble figuring out why most scum would. I think she's generally beneficial to scum because she's so distracting. So either your personal animus is why she's dead or she's dead because someone wants to make you look bad. Or someone went eeny meeny minee moe. I dont think she was killed because of her masterful scum hunting.
So when you said you wished she was in here to lynch I didnt believe you. I think she annoys you to a point where you just want her gone.
And now since, by your own admission, you dont take the game that seriously I can see you saying "I'll kill her and will be shielded by WIFOM and if I'm not and I die, fuck it. It's just a game."-
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Not at all. Im not interested, unlike some people in here, in running up big wagons based on shitfumes. It's just that your explanation didnt really change the final conclusion. Maybe you could have said something that made me go "oh fair enough" and leave it. But you didnt. You said something that made me go "oh fair enough. But...wait a second..."Thestatusquo wrote:So you will continue to invent scenarios in your mind where I am scum no matter what I say? The question at that point becomes "Why am I still talking to you?" then.-
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Yes. This is an accurate restatement of what I explicitly said. I might add that on at least one occasion I foolishly tried to interject with a moderately lengthy response, forgot to cut it to clipboard, and had it destroyed by a delicious CPU quota error. Oh, I also asked a question to someone that completely ignored and washed away as I recall.Guardian wrote:Cicero, so, you've been reading the game -- and even taking notes -- but didn't want to comment, and instead decided it would be better to wait until the dust settled?
Totally iffy. Just not quite as iffy as "hey, he talked like a pirate!!!!"Hit Preview: Prima facia, cicero's n1 death speculation makes a little sense. But n1 death speculation is always iffy :\.-
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Guardian: Flameaxe is telling you that I never attacked him. You keep saying I did. Yet I did not. I attacked (if you can call it that :p) TSQ.
However, Flameaxe, your response is not enough because you certainly PERCEIVED an attack. And that's the only time you decided to speak up. So it isnt an answer.
You two on the same page now?-
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Nope. I find those that followed you at least equally suspicious. Maybe more. I figured there was a good chance you were doing something to get discussion started. That seemed relatively pro-town to me. Though I thought the general proposition was bullshit. The fact that it got so much traction is what began to worry me. I'll be giving it a good think once this week at work is over. You and Thesp have both raised my eyebrows. But I need to sit down on saturday with a cuppa joe and think.Guardian wrote:
Yeah, I take huge issue with this.cicero wrote:
"OMG. He talked like a pirate."Guardian wrote:
Who mightcicero wrote:Not at all. Im not interested, unlike some people in here, in running up big wagons based on shitfumes.thosepeople be? Name names, please.
I wanted attention, sure. A wagon sure. But based on shitfumes? At the point I brought it up? What better was there? Even now, his confirming is not forgotten -- I definitely don't think that it was irrelevant.
And you accuse me, like it is some treasonous act to bring up something you think is suspicious. I'd also like to bring up that I *voted* Iammars. Others *wagoned* him. You find me more suspicious than those who followed?
Until I have something worthwhile to say that hasnt been said? Yes. Lurkers drive me crazy though. Ask anybody. There's no way I'd stay inactive for long. But letting you and Thesp tire out. Ab-so-fucking-lutely. It wasnt so much pro-town of me as it was completely necessary for me. Maybe it's because I have a full time job and some semblance of a social life, but I couldnt keep up and interject in the way I like to interject. And as it is you'll still need to wait for saturday or sunday for me to really weigh in. Don't like that? Here's some rope.cicero wrote:Are you saying that your play thus far in the game, considering that you were reading the game -- is totally defensible as pro-town? It was good for you to read and take notes and keep to yourself?-
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Overall I've been good with your play Thok but I can't accept that Thesp was totally honest. His pushing of the Iammers wagon was the thing so far that seemed most disingenuous to me.Thok wrote:
I believe this means that Thesp was fairly honest about believing in those wagons, which seems like a protown point of view to me.Claus wrote:Thesp was pushing too hard, and too seriously, a much too silly bandwagon. And then later he begins to cheer both bandwagons. Thus the vote.
I don't see why people are going after Thesp and not Guardian/TSQ, who were equally bad in pushing a silly wagon and IMHO did less in trying to analyze it/justify their reasons.
I'll also point out that TSQ/Guardian can't be pirate/ninja town, given their reactions to the secret discussion, and both are a bit too eager initially to accept the automatic pirate/ninja=scum theories.
Also, does anybody actually feel TSQ's reaction to my vote on him was a protown reaction? He fairly clearly tried to frame my vote in convoluted ways in an attempt to discredit it.
On the TSQ side, I'm on the fence, but I thought your comments did look like a veiled accusation of TSQ lurking, for the record. Not that that would be scummy if you thought he was. I'm more surprised that you immediately backpedaled from that interpretation instead of just accepting his explanation - debating tournament or whatever.
At the same time, I havent seen TSQ as remotely pro-town. His play today has been openly doing scummy things and his defense thereof is "what what? so what!" That includes calling the Iammers wagon a good wagon, then jumping on the next big wagon, and finally his responses re: the DGB death.-
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I'm sorry but the most obvious scenario points to pirate/ninja scum and a possible serial killer. DGB was a pirate finder who was "forced to walk the plank". The flavor of her being Jack Aubrey (from Master and Commander and related books) also points to the idea of Pirates as scum since another idea, like say a mason finder, doesnt fit nearly as elegantly.
MBL had his throat slit AND head bashed in. A slit throat is the kind of thing I would expect from a ninja. Sneak up and dispatch in the most silent way possible. I dont see Ninjas bashing heads so my guess is that's a third actor. And probably a bad guy too. Heads being bashed in seems more serial killer than SK to me.
Now, should we accept that this is the definitive scenario? No. We dont know. Any of them COULD be a vigilante. And most importantly, we dont NEED to know on day one. That having been said though, I dont find people acting on these ideas as the most probable scenario remotely scummy. So of people who are "a bit too eager initially to accept the automatic pirate/ninja=scum theories." You can add my name too. Oh look at my shiny Occam's Razor. It glows in the light.-
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Ah. This brings up a clarification I think needs making: Iammars wrote:Thok wrote:There's a difference between what you've said and what TSQ said (Guardian is closer to you than TSQ). You've made comments of the form "X is the most likely theory because of Ockham's razor". TSQ made a comment that completely ruled out a possible alternative theory (his comments about Iammars' possible responses to Thesp's question in particular. TSQ completely ruled out even the possibility of Iammars being pirate town.)
Some people seem to have read this as Iammars saying that he is "sort of a pirate sort of not". By my reading, that isnt what he is saying. What he is saying is "I will claim whether I am a pirate or not" and goes on to deny being a pirate.Iammars wrote:Thirdly, since Thesp asked nicely, I will claim pirate/not pirate. I'm not a pirate. However, I'm not too familiar with my character, so I'm not 100% sure.
@Iammars - Can you confirm or deny that I am correct in this interpretation?-
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Yep. That I know, but I thought his phrasing made people think there was sort of a 50/50 shot rather than the "not a pirate unless I'm mistaken" supposition he was making.Twomz wrote:Iammars said that he wasn't a pirate, but he is unfamiliar with he role so there is a small chance that he is mistaken on that assumption.
The one thing that is highly disturbing to me is Iammers claim that he can't research his character. With the internet at my disposal there is practically NOTHING I cant become familiar with in a few hours. I simply do not believe that he can't figure out his flavor unless Stoofer made it up out of whole cloth.
@Iammars: Try harder or stop fibbing. And don't give me a "not worth my time and energy" response unless you are indeed the laziest sloth in the universe.
(Remember: Just because I thought the pirate confirmation post case against Iammars was nonsense doesn't mean I think he's obv-town. A stopped clock is right twice a day after all.)-
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Slippery.Iammars wrote:
And how does this post say that I can't find it in Wikipedia?Iammars wrote:Also, it's not my fault I never heard about my character before, and Wikipedia sure isn't helping me.
Wikipedia just isn't helping me determine whether or not my character is a pirate.
Slidey.
Safe-claim flexibility?
You know there's more to internet research than Wikipedia, right?
Look, I don't know that you needed to soft-claim pirate/not-pirate at all. But the manner in which you have claimed is definitely sketch.-
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What's your point here, Ultima Avalon?UltimaAvalon wrote:
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say thats your Role PM's job, or even Stoofer's job. Not Wikipedia's. Granted, I don't know your role PM or what anyone else's says, but thats what makes sense to me.Mars wrote:Wikipedia just isn't helping me determine whether or not my character is a pirate.
yay for tag fixings
Also, You still owe me an answer to a question from post 86 or so with respect to why you voted Gorrad.-
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Bold #1: That isnt explaining your implications. It is restating your point. What I'm asking is where does that assertion lead you with respect to scumhunting.UltimaAvalon wrote:cicero wrote:
What's your point here, Ultima Avalon?UltimaAvalon wrote:
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say thats your Role PM's job, or even Stoofer's job. Not Wikipedia's. Granted, I don't know your role PM or what anyone else's says, but thats what makes sense to me.Mars wrote:Wikipedia just isn't helping me determine whether or not my character is a pirate.
yay for tag fixingsWhether or not his character is a pirate shouldn't be open to interpretation, and, if there's dubt, Wikipedia shouldn't be the one to resolve it.
Also, You still owe me an answer to a question from post 86 or so with respect to why you voted Gorrad.No one hopped on my bandwagon, so I hopped on the first one that had potential
Bold #2: And so you didnt really think Gorrad had done anything scummy? Because I really didnt understand your logic in that post. So now you are admitting that you just jumped on that wagon for no good reason?-
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I don't agree with this at all. When I jump on bandwagons on day one, I find something prima facie scummy even if I change my mind later. I dont just tag along. You seemed to be suggesting there was a problem with Gorrad's thinking vis-a-vis mass claim. I still don't even understand what you meant in that post.UltimaAvalon wrote:Bold #1: I'm not scumhunting based on roles, because, as it stands, we don't know who the scum are. I'm simply saying it shouldn't be that difficult for Mars to determine whether or not he is a pirate based on his role pm, regardless of his role PM's flavor.
Bold #2: Ya. So? Early Day 1 in bandwagon time
For everyone's refreshment, here's your post:
Now normally mass-claiming is indeed NOT the pro-town thing to do. So I said "huh?" and asked what you meant. You dutifully ignored me.UltimaAvalon wrote:Unvote, Vote: GorradAre you suggesting that mass-claiming is, in fact,notthe pro-town thing to do?
So so far here's what I've seen from you so far:
1. In the random voting stage, you voted for yourself. That could be seen as scum being extra careful to avoid making connections. You also did it a few days after others.
2. You then jumped on Gorrad's wagon with no real cause that you are willing to explain.
3. An unexplained jump to the another possible opportune bandwagon without explanation, Guardian. Is it because you guys fought over Haiku? Not that I think a jump to Guardian makes no sense. That would be stupid. But it's a pattern of opportunism with you that I'd like to nip in the bud.
4. Evasive ignoring or non-answers to my questions.
I'd prefer you provide reasons for your actions from now on, if that's ok. At this point you've pinged my possible scumdar pretty clearly.-
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I see Ultima being OMGUS and Flameaxe being obstructionist and swooping to someone's rescue again.UltimaAvalon wrote:Unvote
Vote: cicero
Reason #1
Reason #2cicero wrote:mass-claiming is indeed NOT the pro-town thing to do.
IS THIS MORE TO YOUR LIKING, GOOD SIR???cicero wrote:In the random voting stage, you voted for yourself. That could be seen as scum
I still don't understand the mass claim accusation, frankly. There are lots of times to use a mass-claim in a game. Later. None of them are on day one.
So... shrug. No, ultima, you didnt make yourself look any better to me at all.-
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Flameaxe, please stop being rude and just explain yourself.Flameaxe wrote:
I suggest you meta better, buddy.cicero wrote:
I see Ultima being OMGUS and Flameaxe being obstructionist and swooping to someone's rescue again.UltimaAvalon wrote:Unvote
Vote: cicero
Reason #1
Reason #2cicero wrote:mass-claiming is indeed NOT the pro-town thing to do.
IS THIS MORE TO YOUR LIKING, GOOD SIR???cicero wrote:In the random voting stage, you voted for yourself. That could be seen as scum
I still don't understand the mass claim accusation, frankly. There are lots of times to use a mass-claim in a game. Later. None of them are on day one.
So... shrug. No, ultima, you didnt make yourself look any better to me at all.-
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The way this works is if I make a supposition on day one with someone I havent played with before, someone who has played with them can come in and correct the meta. If you think I'm going to go check metas BEFORE I post you are dreaming.
So you can respond flippantly or you can explain things. On day one, I look at people's play and if something needs to be noted I note it. It gives other people alerts that can be used throughout the game.
I'm not convinced UA is scum by any means. But I'm certainly not convinced he's town.
I also still don't remotely understand the objection to what I had to say about mass-claim. The central point, which you seem to be trying to derail, is me noting opportunistic bandwagoning without reason. Followed by avoidance of answering questions.-
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Flame I'm not sitting here crying but you're being a pest. The only thing youve opened your mouth to do in this game is to poke me when I try to open new avenues of discussion. It's childish and hostile and brings an unnecessary shrillness to the game, so please stop.Flameaxe wrote:No, you get replaced for taking the game too seriously.
Ultima, ignoring the cheeky form of your answer, I have to disagree. Mass-claiming is very often not pro-town. Are you now saying that your vote for Gorrad was based on your belief that believing a mass-claim could be anti-town is a scumtell or are you sticking with your "on day one I can bandwagon with impunity" position.
See the way I see it, those early bandwagons are good exactly for looking to see who hops on for bad reasons.-
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Not at all. I take the random stage very seriously in every game. So does everyone else. The first accusation always comes out of it. So do you. It's why you have a self-vote tradition. You have a meta excuse for your choice. It's the same as random dice rolling.UltimaAvalon wrote:cicero wrote:
Fail. If townies took the entire game seriously, then the random stage wouldn't exist at all ever.UltimaAvalon wrote:
Townies.Blah Blah Block #3: Or who takes early Day 1 seriously
In fact, it could be argued that it is, in fact, scum, who try and take the entire game seriously, as they over-analyze and nit-pick over the very minor of things, in hopes to find scummy behavoir where it, in fact, doesn't exist.
Sorry, I hate day ones enough without letting someone's first three votes have "get out of jail free" cards attached to them. That just prolongs the day and lets scum get away with anything they like.-
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That would mean the discussion that stemmed directly from you interjecting between me and TSQ and then Guardian asking you a direct question about your whereabouts and motivations. I didn't miss it. It just doesnt change the facts.Flameaxe wrote:
I'm sorry?Flame I'm not sitting here crying but you're being a pest. The only thing youve opened your mouth to do in this game is to poke me when I try to open new avenues of discussion. It's childish and hostile and brings an unnecessary shrillness to the game, so please stop.
Also, did you miss my discussion with Guardian a few pages back? Yeah, way to completely lie. It's cool though.-
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heh.Gorrad wrote:
I very much disagree with this. I enjoy when the town has powerroles.UltimaAvalon wrote:
Regardless of the time of day or the circumstances surrounding it, massclaims are pro-town. Period.I also still don't remotely understand the objection to what I had to say about mass-claim.
Also, while I must say Flameaxe is, as always, being very unhelpful, his posts make me laugh.
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cicero Oratoreador
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Again, this misses the point. I agree with this completely but if it's to have any meaning, you are looking for disingenuous play. Just jumping on any wagon that seems to have momentum is exactly the kind of tell oneThestatusquo wrote:Also, I would argue that the point day one, as a pro town player is to get wagons and guage reactions. The way you do this is get pressure on other players and then see how they, and others, react to that pressure. I don't see anything I've done today that cant be explained under that framework of day 1 pro town behavior.
looks for in those wagons.-
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I understand and this is my reaction. I just think it muddies the water. I appreciate pressure wagons. But I generally think the people on them should think the point giving rise to the wagon makes a bit of sense. So if I see you or UA or anyone just jumping on wagons, you are the people I'm going to assume are more likely to be scum. Not the poor sop who talked pirate, or even the guy that made the initial supposition to get discussion started. What flagged you to me initially for example, was when you hopped on declaring Iammars wagon "Excellent for a day one wagon" when, in my view, it was anything but.Thestatusquo wrote:
Not necessarily, I would say. First of all, there is a difference (especially early d1) in being on a wagon, and seeking a lynch. I would argue that the former is a tell, whereas the latter is meaningless d1. I don't think I've been actively seeking the lynch of either of these players, although I reserve the right to seek their lynch at a later time if they do other scummy things which warrant it.cicero wrote:
Again, this misses the point. I agree with this completely but if it's to have any meaning, you are looking for disingenuous play. Just jumping on any wagon that seems to have momentum is exactly the kind of tell oneThestatusquo wrote:Also, I would argue that the point day one, as a pro town player is to get wagons and guage reactions. The way you do this is get pressure on other players and then see how they, and others, react to that pressure. I don't see anything I've done today that cant be explained under that framework of day 1 pro town behavior.
looks for in those wagons.
In general, I like to ask people why they are voting for whoever they are voting for. And in my opinion, "it's day one. Kiss my ass." isnt a good answer.
In my opinion that kind of pressure wagon takes away the usefulness of day one that way because it devalues the patterns we can ascertain when we look back at day one from the vantage point of day four.
And since muddying the water is more a scum thing to want to do... You get the idea.-
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This line of complaint is completely unproductive.
Fritzler chose to bring back a good scumhunter/vig instead of a distracting player/possible cop. Ahether you agree or nay, it's a perfectly reasonable call. Yelling at him for it doesnt do anything but fill even more space on my screen with visions of a blue haired dude with a sword.-
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@Guardian:
I had weighed in as I wanted to and thought my positions were pretty clear. Butthe short version of all my thoughts (if they are so magically valuable) updated to now is:
Iammers wagon: hated it. Looks more inspired later though, given Iammers odd-claim. He also hasnt voted since he randomed me. I know because I keep going back and going, now why is THAT vote there? So maybe Guardian was on to something after all. I dont believe in the existence of a role in which you cant decide if it is or is not a pirate. But it seems just weird enough to be true.
Gorrad Wagon: Never bought it much but Claus's post was good.
Thesp-scum: I can see it because of Iammars-wagon.
Guardian scum: I can see it because of Iammars-wagon.
Thesp and Guardian: Feel the same to me in some ways. Could go either way on either of them. Lots of blah blah blah and bending over backwards to look oh so town. I was more suspicious of how Thesp ran with the Iammars wagon then how Guardian brought it up. But in both cases I'm not in a hurry to lynch the people that are doing the actual thinking in here while others run out the clock. So I'm not going to vote for either of these players today unless I see something egregious butIGMEOY Both. Consider it the price of the wagon.
Add to that:
TSQ Wagon: Would make sense. Not liking his play. Reasons already stated. Some agreement with Thok. I wouldnt put it past TSQ to N0 Dripping Goofball for a second. I dont care how dumb Fritzler thinks that is. It isn't. I may join this wagon. Watching.
Ultima wagon: Would make sense. Sneaking on wagons. His vote on Gorrad was based on the idea that mass-claims are always good for town. Nobody believes this. I don't believe that he believes this. So I believe he lied. And I believe that makes it more likely he is scum.
Sir Tornado: Snuck on to the Iammars wagon and shut up. Being given a meta pass at present. I really am considering becoming part of the problem and just lurking through day one's from now on.
Flameaxe: Came to the aid of two team asshat/scumchat/friends, when I pressed them. Possibly doesn't care who is and is not townie. More likely just letting his distaste for me color his play. No scumtells but nothing pro-town either. But what else is new?
Gorrad and Hasdqfas: Are what they say they are. The other possibility doesn't make sense. Too bad they are outed but shit happens. The outing of Hasdgfas was a misplay by Gorrad but contributory negligence by MBL. If your gambit counts on scum slipping up, be prepared for it to make town slip up too. Gorrad thought he was already dead and wanted to give the town a confirmed townie to help in scum-hunting, since Gorrad's death would have removed the "masonic" . Not the right move though. It should always have been Hasdgfas's prerogative to claim or not claim. His role wasn't Gorrad's to provide us.
Twomz: Coming in to just say "holy crap" is poor. I have a feeling you are town though because I don't think you'd be so cavalier as scum. But that's the definition of WIFOM there, so instead - Twomz, could you give us a rundown of your thoughts on people so far?
Other Lurkers: Already listed and prodded by other players and the mod. Need to chime in and play.
Side note for the mod: Fonz is V/LA at the moment as well.
If I think of more to say about people I'll say it. I've noted who I havent mentioned in this post and, generally, that means I dont have strong feelings about them. That has triggered me to go back and look at them harder. (Thok, for instance, feels pro-town to me and I'm on his side against TSQ for the moment, but need to re-read.)
Hope that helps.-
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It isnt fluff. It's a summary of points I already made with respect to those players. And they are good points.Rosso Carne wrote:
Maybe be simply adding fluff where there is none, but this kind of fluff worries me.cic wrote:Ultima wagon: Would make sense. Sneaking on wagons. His vote on Gorrad was based on the idea that mass-claims are always good for town. Nobody believes this. I don't believe that he believes this. So I believe he lied. And I believe that makes it more likely he is scum.
Sir Tornado: Snuck on to the Iammars wagon and shut up. Being given a meta pass at present. I really am considering becoming part of the problem and just lurking through day one's from now on.
Flameaxe: Came to the aid of two team asshat/scumchat/friends, when I pressed them. Possibly doesn't care who is and is not townie. More likely just letting his distaste for me color his play. No scumtells but nothing pro-town either. But what else is new?-
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You are correct. I did miss it. Thanks.Erg0 wrote:cicero, can you please answer 590? I have a feeling you missed it.
The only answer I can give before a re-read is that you raise a good point. On my read I found Thesp scummier than Guardian BECAUSE he was pushing the Iammars wagon further and harder - at least it seemed so at one point. But you provide an interesting counterpoint. When I reread this weekend, I'll look at it from that perspective.Erg0 wrote:I really have difficulty understanding why Guardian is kind of skating by for doing much the same thing as Thesp, but then abandoning his position when it became clear that it was becoming unpopular. At least Thesp stuck to his guns in the face of the wagon against him, which is either a sign that he was acting in good faith or a pretty big gamble if he's scum.-
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