world.createNew(Utopia everHope); - EPILOGUE (GAME OVER!)

[Vecna]

Anyways, theres another SCUM left that has to be in reality to kill people in reality.

-IF- drealmers is indeed town its not him......and I can rule out quite a bunch of other people at this point (allthough I wont openly share this knowledge ofcourse).

REVELATION:

Its quite likely that it is KIDAMN. Think about it. Clumsy was going to be sacrefised the same day as Gigabye ended up dead. That very same day KidAmn broke off his link. WHAT IF he is the 2nd scum reality killer? He needed to break off the link, because if he didnt id notice that he wouldve left the HOOD if he went to reality that night.

KidAmn probably needs to be in VIRTUAL REALITY for his town-hood encryption to work. He wanted to be in VR so he could claim later on that he had this town beneficial ability. Once THE BULGE - the scum neighbourhood spy - told him that our founders chat was now dead....there was no use for KidAmn to still keep using that power. I also claimed before this point that my private hood had long died.

KidAmn probably also has the scum daychat power if he is indeed scum. Whether that is REALITY or Virtual reality, is hard to predict; BUT - the mod probably designed the setup in such a way as there being HARD CHOICES for people to have to choose between reality and VR. For scum such choices would likely be appearing as town / using encryption - OR BEING ABLE TO KILL in certain dimensions. From a setup speculation pov that makes total sense.

My prediction thus; KIDAMN is the last remaining scum REALITY NIGHTKILLER. He had to break the link with giga when they killed him since they KNEW they had to bus CLUMSY. its just too much of a damn coincidence that KIDAMN broke the link that very night I was to join their hood, AND giga ended up dying.

VOTE: KidAmn

[Vecna]

Further explenation; Clumsy was doing the Scum nightkills from REALITY.

When they had to bus him, they probably needed to have someone ELSE come to reality to start doing the kills if they had to kill someone in reality.

THAT is why gigabyte had to die (together with him lol-claiming fake abilities ofcourse).

THAT is why KidAmn had to break his link that very same night when I was going to join their hood.

THAT is why he only started to crumb his hacker stuff so LATE in the game.

If we lynch the last scum reality killer, we can all move over to reality if we so desire, and our reality powers can never be stopped AND everyone in reality becomes a treestump.

LETS DO THIS

[Vecna]

If theres any holes in my thought out scenario, please let me know. This all kind of just appeared to me right now why brainstorming about all the little puzzle pieces.

I have a strong feeling this is what happened though. It all fits just too nicely with all the information we have, and all the events that transpired.

(and with my strong gut-initial reads as soon as I replaced in, which I ignore way too often to great detriment).

[Vecna]

@Vecna gotta ask

The invite request to your hood: reality right?

You just sent the link request, to either me or RM at random. We'll both try to link you (to reduce the chances of the person dying and the link not going through - allthough i guess it should still work since thats what the mod said when giga died if im not mistaken).

You'll only be able to talk/read it if youre in VR though (but you'll only be able to change it STARTING from the next day phase if you pm the mod during the night to change to it - so it wont give the scum extra information for tonight)

[Vecna]

I will join that.

We were both wrong on game start.

I will make you a deal. Get scum today I will sheep you no questions asked tomorrow. Don't get scum today and I am going Math tunnel extraordinaire on my four.

Also, dont put all the pressure/blame on me - sure im trying my utmost to get us to lynch scum here, but its everyone's responsibility - and I feel way way too many people are just taking the lazy route in this game.

[Vecna]

This game suddenly became a lot more interesting again to me. Nothing quite like a good dose of setup speculation to narrow in on a good lynch that makes me happy.

KidAmn lynching time, even though he made excellent use of Kung Fury powerclaims

[Vecna]

(btw, if im right - scum will go into heavy resistance mode since this lynch will cripple them)

[Vecna]

Were gonna get him to TR me by lynching scum today.

[Vecna]

Vote KidAmn with us Titus, lets go.

since youre stating your not gonna reread shit, and youre TR' ing me........

i dont see any reason why you wouldnt want to. Unless you can find flaws in my logic-posts on the previous page. KidAmn has done some very dodgy shit this game that has very little possible town motivation behind it.

[Vecna]

Anyways, theres another SCUM left that has to be in reality to kill people in reality.

-IF- drealmers is indeed town its not him......and I can rule out quite a bunch of other people at this point (allthough I wont openly share this knowledge ofcourse).

REVELATION:

Its quite likely that it is KIDAMN. Think about it. Clumsy was going to be sacrefised the same day as Gigabye ended up dead. That very same day KidAmn broke off his link. WHAT IF he is the 2nd scum reality killer? He needed to break off the link, because if he didnt id notice that he wouldve left the HOOD if he went to reality that night.

KidAmn probably needs to be in VIRTUAL REALITY for his town-hood encryption to work. He wanted to be in VR so he could claim later on that he had this town beneficial ability. Once THE BULGE - the scum neighbourhood spy - told him that our founders chat was now dead....there was no use for KidAmn to still keep using that power. I also claimed before this point that my private hood had long died.

KidAmn probably also has the scum daychat power if he is indeed scum. Whether that is REALITY or Virtual reality, is hard to predict; BUT - the mod probably designed the setup in such a way as there being HARD CHOICES for people to have to choose between reality and VR. For scum such choices would likely be appearing as town / using encryption - OR BEING ABLE TO KILL in certain dimensions. From a setup speculation pov that makes total sense.

My prediction thus; KIDAMN is the last remaining scum REALITY NIGHTKILLER. He had to break the link with giga when they killed him since they KNEW they had to bus CLUMSY. its just too much of a damn coincidence that KIDAMN broke the link that very night I was to join their hood, AND giga ended up dying.

VOTE: KidAmn

VOTE: KidAmn

Further explenation; Clumsy was doing the Scum nightkills from REALITY.

When they had to bus him, they probably needed to have someone ELSE come to reality to start doing the kills if they had to kill someone in reality.

THAT is why gigabyte had to die (together with him lol-claiming fake abilities ofcourse).

THAT is why KidAmn had to break his link that very same night when I was going to join their hood.

THAT is why he only started to crumb his hacker stuff so LATE in the game.

If we lynch the last scum reality killer, we can all move over to reality if we so desire, and our reality powers can never be stopped AND everyone in reality becomes a treestump.

LETS DO THIS

This game suddenly became a lot more interesting again to me. Nothing quite like a good dose of setup speculation to narrow in on a good lynch that makes me happy.

KidAmn lynching time, even though he made excellent use of Kung Fury powerclaims

Jesus fucking christ. Yeah, you're right, I spent D2 in VR (which is why I was asking RT where they were to use our fucking link) and D3 (when my claimed power works - and it doesn't give a shit where I am, as long as I'm alive) in reality (and incidentally, I'm willing to bet at least one link was alive and could talk at that point during D3, when you're suggesting I had to go to reality to kill, but also had to be in VR for scum to have the daychat you've decided exists out of nowhere. And my first fucking crumb was over 400 posts before you ever asked Giga to link, but I totally started crumbing because I was scared of a one-shot cop who can only work through links that I had no idea existed, or was going to ask to join my link.

1) Yes my reads sucked that game except on MariaR and LeonShade and Beeboy
2) I'm not leading this game. I'm active and posting things and seeing how people respond to those things.
3) I think you're bussing.

4 and most importantly) Enjoy Persona 5. Persona 4 was amazing. Naoto...<3

Your reads are shit here too if you think I'm bussing. Not like I'm posting in code or something here, I literally said I doubted both Maria and rt, but gigs at least offered a reason to give them some trust for now which is more than Maria.

vecna pls be town i want to powertown with you like in pyp but not be hard-pocketed this time

Hey Giga, I am town as a matter of fact.

Lets go into VR tonight and sync up <3

How does that stuff work, im guessing you pm the mod and just tell him that, and then we both decide to sync?

I wanna make a hood with you.

Now, I have a lot of catching up to do.

I joined this game mainly because I wanna town with you, and I like to not be an asshole to math/gerry this game and see if I can pull that off after threatening I would dodge them forever after last game.

Math/Gerry, lovecircle?

Catch-up walls of doom incoming over the next 24 hours or so.

I mean, there's obvious scum sat in the open, but no, you're buddying up with them and going for a D4 lynch based on speculation about how the scum-team's abilities may or may not work instead of anything logical or based on the actual posts in the fucking thread. This isn't fucking Mafia any more. Go ahead and lynch me, I'm done with what this site has turned into.

Yes, lets pretend my Iso isnt full of reasons why im scumreading, that have nothing to do with setup speculation.

Ive put forth the tone/posting style argument

Ive explained in several ways how theres no town benefit at all to the way you broke up the link - and ive shown in several ways how there can be different scum motivations behind it. Your reason being "i didnt wanna be in a hood with you" doesnt fly with me, at all.

Leonshade was hella scummy before replacing out.

Your way of voting the lovers, but contiuing to attack others that were voting there on day1 was very suspicious. You did the same stuff with maria, where you gave her the opportunity to selfhammer, but kept criticing/blaming others for voting her.

Your continuous defence where you AtE of other players, like im being completely unjust for scumreading you, without actually tackling my arguments. You just try to redicule them.

You sir, are scum.

[Vecna]

Vecna is right that I want to work with him but if you're going to vote Vecna no matter what, then either you or him has to go today and I work with him better.

We'll need a mislynch for the inactives most likely, so were not wasting it on someone im thinking is town.

[Vecna]

Jesus fucking christ. Yeah, you're right, I spent D2 in VR (which is why I was asking RT where they were to use our fucking link) and D3 (when my claimed power works - and it doesn't give a shit where I am, as long as I'm alive) in reality (and incidentally, I'm willing to bet at least one link was alive and could talk at that point during D3, when you're suggesting I had to go to reality to kill, but also had to be in VR for scum to have the daychat you've decided exists out of nowhere. And my first fucking crumb was over 400 posts before you ever asked Giga to link, but I totally started crumbing because I was scared of a one-shot cop who can only work through links that I had no idea existed, or was going to ask to join my link.

-----------------------------------------

I mean, there's obvious scum sat in the open, but no, you're buddying up with them and going for a D4 lynch based on speculation about how the scum-team's abilities may or may not work instead of anything logical or based on the actual posts in the fucking thread. This isn't fucking Mafia any more. Go ahead and lynch me, I'm done with what this site has turned into.

Aaaaah, so youre admitting you broke the link to go to reality. My speculation is accurate!

Also, links dont care about your ability. Those neighbourhoods stay alive during the day regardless. Right now (day4) theyre active as well. So as I speculated.....you knew that your power was no longer required anywhere, and noone would notice that you hopped out of VR if you broke the link.

So then the question remains.......Why did you suddenly need to be in reality?

I mean, the timing right? The timing.....right after clumsy was set to die.....and scum needed someone else in reality (since yes, BTD6 was killed in -reality-).

And im not saying you left the link because you were afraid of me. Im saying you left the link because you needed to be in reality, and were afraid to be discovered.....since the logic that scum needs to be in reality after Clumsy's flip is rather straight-forward. As is the speculation that scum likely has 2 reality and 2 Virtual reality killers.

And this my friend, is exactly what mafia is all about. Combining all insights into a sound conclusion.

[Vecna]

Vote KidAmn with us Titus, lets go.

since youre stating your not gonna reread shit, and youre TR' ing me........

i dont see any reason why you wouldnt want to. Unless you can find flaws in my logic-posts on the previous page. KidAmn has done some very dodgy shit this game that has very little possible town motivation behind it.

And what happens when Math votes you? Well let me try here maybe...

@Math, If KidAmn flips scum, will you vote Random Vecna random tomorrow?

I made a deal Titus.

Are you saying you dont want to lynch KidAmn today Mathblade, and that its all to please me, or because of some silly deal? Because you have the same read, so stating if were both wrong tomorrow youre vindicated is rather silly.

dont be daft, answer Titus' question.

[Vecna]

Or actually, this is probably exactly what Titus wants to achieve.

Forget about it.

Im confident in this lynch. Titus is most likely just trying to derail it by trying to spark more arguments between us.

Unified front.

[Vecna]

YO FFS KID is town

Partner spotted! Suspicions confirmed. Vital part of scum victory condition identified. Destruction order issued.

[Vecna]

Vecna, if Math wrecks this game, you will not hear the end of it in postgame.

If im wrong about this lynch, the game is most likely a loss regardless.

But im confident enough to go for this lynch, and I think itll result in near town-auto.

[Vecna]

Finally this game is providing entertainment.

[Vecna]

Mod - a question; Do VR - links close during the day by default? It does not get mentioned in that PT opening post in as much detail as another hood Im in, but the rules section only mentions that you can talk there at night if 2 or more people that are linked are in VR.

[Vecna]

YO FFS KID is town

Zach, if you have a power that keeps PT's open durin even days, this is the moment to speak up son. Trust me when I say scum have a lot more important targets for their NK than someone with that power.

[Vecna]

oh shit, major miscalculation spotted. Need time to reflect.

UNVOTE: KidAmn

See guys, when I ask people to do their due dilligence to spot mistakes in my reasoning, this would be one of those things where you pull head from arse.

[Vecna]

Alright, so KidAmn correcting my mistake, but stating he ONLY is on odd links.......

Means theres another identical copy of his role fo even days (which from the reaction im guessing is Zach, but this ofcourse is just speculation).

oops

[Vecna]

Sup momo, you scum?

[Vecna]

vecna is not obvitown

if you think such a thing, share why you think such a thing

Great, you in lylo too?

Please tell me there's a hidden clear on you.

We can lynch it today as far as im concerned.

[Vecna]

Gerry is a fine lynch, though I wouldn't say ideal at this exact moment.

lol, this iss scummm

No, this is.

Why were you asking me not to cop Drealmerz earlier?

I have a POE pool that im quite confident in. It has 5 people, of which 3 are scum.

Both you and Drealmerz are in it.

Imagine my surprise that 1 person is telling me not to cop one of the others in taht pool huh?

Or having some vague never explained townread on the slot.

[Vecna]

Im thinking Titus doesnt wanna give away their secrets of Vecna-reads. They have some sneaky tells on me to know when im scum, and id like to know as well what they are

[Vecna]

VOTE: The Bulge

Explain to me why youre going against my reads here Titus and trying to lynch a town liability as opposed to scum at lylo -1.

[Vecna]

Breaking down this Drealmerz post, piece by piece:

first of all, vecna is all over the fucking place, he's not trying to 'lead town' to anything other than what HE wants, and it appears what he wants is numerous things 'as long as it's not this or this!' and he's making ultimatums, and seemingly setting up multiple potential agendas to push depending on how things unfold

Im not all over the fucking place. I have solid reads that ive made public at ANY POINT IN TIME. Ive provided reasons, EVERY STEP OF THE WAY.
Im pushing to lynch in my scum pool, not the peolpe that are near town-confirmed to me. Youre doing the same thing, except you have/had a 1man person scumpool (which is laughably wrong).
What Ultimatums did I make? Beside you not breaking the PT-link?
Where did I set up "multiple agenda's to push?" - QUOTES, now. This should be easy to prove if youre not just spouting random bullshit that is meant to sound nice.

secondly, he has close extended experience with me as scum (23player game with 5 scum, and he and I were the 2 scum that lived to the end to win it), and while I do not play any game identical to any other game, there are things about my scum game that he is aware of that he is completely discounting here as he tries to "leave it open" for pushing me as scum (depending on which agenda he sets up and pushes depending on how things go):
a.) I'm pretty clearly clueless town here I think, and while some town games I do the following, it simply just depends on the game and my reads, whereas if I were scum he knows I'm much more likely to have a clear picture of certain things that I'd be painting and pushing as truth to try and forward my scumgenda, b.) I'm quite good at manipulating people in hoods, my doing so was KEY to the PYPDD win, as I had the top 2 universally TR players in the game eating out of the palm of my hand and confirming me as 'absolutely town', and while I wouldn't guarantee anyone I'd try to attempt that so close together in games, this game is heavily hood focused, and I'm quite sure I'd be utilizing it as scum in this game, and I'm pretty sure vecna knows that

Ive already went into this. Theres dimension requirements to abilities and NIGHTKILLS - which would overwrite any desire to use hoods. You trying to townclear yourself because youre "clueless" and not using hood is totally possible for you to use as a scum strategy to clear yourself. If you were to actually read my posts, ive stated repeatedly that youre in my scumpool, not that im locked in on you being scum. Ill use my cop tonight to confirm your ass regardless (which you keep trying to discredit, but w/e - its the TRUTH).

thirdly, his claiming STINKS, you think he'd have learned from the previous such-doers in this game alone to stop fucking with your claims if you are town, IT SERVES NOTHING BUT TO DISRUPT THE GAMESTATE and makes things even harder for town to figure out, yet he adds to the shit with a changing cop-claim that, again, serves his scumgenda and leaves him open to pushing ppl as scum based on certain things

It served to save RandoMidget you tool. You guys were mislynching obv-town from my hood and that needed to be stopped. So do you, or do you not still scumread RM? Because you were going back and forth and back and forth on that.

I wouldn't be surprised if scum has a power to force a link-break between ppl in a PT and he's attemping to set me up with "if you break the link you're dead tomorrow because that means I can't investigate you" BS that just REEKS

Ye, ye, keep on making up more random bulshit. Its not at all like this statement fits exactly with my claim, right?

titus is likely scum with him because she's pretty much aware of all of that ^ and is just going along with him for, NO EXPLICABLE REASON WHATSOEVER even though she's been prompted and pushed to do so

I dont disagree that Titus is likely scum. If youre thinking this, why dont you vote Titus instead of Math?

[Vecna]

very possible titus and vecna are scum together

first of all, vecna is all over the fucking place, he's not trying to 'lead town' to anything other than what HE wants, and it appears what he wants is numerous things 'as long as it's not this or this!' and he's making ultimatums, and seemingly setting up multiple potential agendas to push depending on how things unfold

secondly, he has close extended experience with me as scum (23player game with 5 scum, and he and I were the 2 scum that lived to the end to win it), and while I do not play any game identical to any other game, there are things about my scum game that he is aware of that he is completely discounting here as he tries to "leave it open" for pushing me as scum (depending on which agenda he sets up and pushes depending on how things go): a.) I'm pretty clearly clueless town here I think, and while some town games I do the following, it simply just depends on the game and my reads, whereas if I were scum he knows I'm much more likely to have a clear picture of certain things that I'd be painting and pushing as truth to try and forward my scumgenda, b.) I'm quite good at manipulating people in hoods, my doing so was KEY to the PYPDD win, as I had the top 2 universally TR players in the game eating out of the palm of my hand and confirming me as 'absolutely town', and while I wouldn't guarantee anyone I'd try to attempt that so close together in games, this game is heavily hood focused, and I'm quite sure I'd be utilizing it as scum in this game, and I'm pretty sure vecna knows that

thirdly, his claiming STINKS, you think he'd have learned from the previous such-doers in this game alone to stop fucking with your claims if you are town, IT SERVES NOTHING BUT TO DISRUPT THE GAMESTATE and makes things even harder for town to figure out, yet he adds to the shit with a changing cop-claim that, again, serves his scumgenda and leaves him open to pushing ppl as scum based on certain things

I wouldn't be surprised if scum has a power to force a link-break between ppl in a PT and he's attemping to set me up with "if you break the link you're dead tomorrow because that means I can't investigate you" BS that just REEKS

titus is likely scum with him because she's pretty much aware of all of that ^ and is just going along with him for, NO EXPLICABLE REASON WHATSOEVER even though she's been prompted and pushed to do so

Oh and who suggested this?
Math
Who is being tunneled?
Math
Who said three of four scum in Random/Titus/Vecna/Kid?
Math

Do the Math. Math is town that found the scum.

Youre being tunneled by everyone else, genious. And if you think that scum would hesitate to lynch you here, youre being ludicrous. If you think it would reveal anyone as lockscum, youre being ludicrous.

If warned you enough, and im about to lynch your ass now.

[Vecna]

Smart as bricks.

They hammer me they scum claim and prove that I am not an idiot as they have been attacking me with.

Your scum-pool has 2 town at minimum in it. You are being an obnoxious idiot again, and god am I regretting replacing into a game with you yet again.

[Vecna]

I give up. Like, there are so many massive egos and piles of conf-bias in this game that can't possibly all be scum that I just don't care any more.

Clumsy/Math/Vecna/Dreal for scum team would be my best guess, but I legitimately don't give two flying fucks at this point because you all deserve each other.

And why not Titus or Momo?

Explain this to me.

[Vecna]

Called it.

Tomorrow you'll link Titus.
Day after that Vecna.

I dont give a shit, you still have a vote to borrow me. If were lynching Titus itll be my call, not yours

And the reason people get annoyed is because of you Mathblade.

[Vecna]

Proving Vecna scum is not game throwing Kid.

That word gets thrown around a lot when people don't do what you want and it pisses me off.

WHY THE SHITDICKS ARE YOU NOT VOTING VECNA IF YOU THINK VECNA IS SCUM

WHY ARE YOU VOTING FOR THE BULGE, THE WAGON VECNA WANTS

When did you start to scumread me?

Why does your frustration push away your logic?

You dont think my case on you had merit seeing how well all the pieces fit into place?

We still need to have Zach confirm he is the role we think he is.

[Vecna]

Math, Vecna's accuracy or inaccuracy proves nothing. Vecna could bus. Vecna could be wrong town.

This whole reply from you is egotisical and fake.

You're trying to fit things that make no sense. Your scumpool looks really townish to me from what I have seen.

Titus is predefending Vecna's failure.

Vecna/Titus/Kid

Why arent you talking about the potential mirror role in Zach/KidAmn?

Why did you unvote Kid straight away after I did if youre so certain he's town? Why not convince me why my sudden different conclusion was wrong?

[Vecna]

Correct.

So then....why am I scum again for defending Random as opposed to lynching them and pretending to think it was a slip?

[Vecna]

Lynching me means Town will lynch in my three tomorrow ESPECIALLY Titus and Vecna.

All itll mean is we get rid of a disturbance.

Youre being so damn stubborn and annoying, that (most likely) mislynching @ lylo -1 is starting to look promising.

Im not going to do it, but you really are frustrating me to the point where im just feeling like throwing the game.

At any rate, this will really be our last game together.

Never ever join my games again.

[Vecna]

No Mathblade, people dont want to think youre stupid.

But your logic doesnt hold up.

You think RM scumslipped.

You start pushing on RM

Vecna defends RM.

Oh Vecna must be scum.

Then you find other reasons afterwards why I must be scum.

Then im suddenly scum with KidAMn because you see some magical connection.

Oh then titus says something about Vecna. Now Titus and Vecna are scum together.

Then RM is no longer scum.

The fact this last part totally negates your first reason for starting to scumread me no longer matters, because you've allready confbiased your way up to actually believing it.

[Vecna]

Yes I am the reflection

Thank you.

[Vecna]

Now, Mathblade - riddle me this.

KidAmn and Zach have the same role.

They both keep PT's alive during different days. Is one of them scum?

Would Zach save Kid if he was scum?

[Vecna]

No Mathblade, people dont want to think youre stupid.

But your logic doesnt hold up.

You think RM scumslipped.

You start pushing on RM

Vecna defends RM.

Oh Vecna must be scum.

Then you find other reasons afterwards why I must be scum.

Then im suddenly scum with KidAMn because you see some magical connection.

Oh then titus says something about Vecna. Now Titus and Vecna are scum together.

Then RM is no longer scum.

The fact this last part totally negates your first reason for starting to scumread me no longer matters, because you've allready confbiased your way up to actually believing it.

That wasn't my only reason Vecna and you are oversimplifying this.

Yes I am oversimplifying it, but its still the truth at its core Mathblade and you KNOW it.

You only started scumreading me because I was harddefending RM, and you thought we were scum together - and THEN you found the other reasons afterwards. You cannot deny this, because you were fine with me before this happened.

[Vecna]

You are painting an alternative picture to try to make me look bad.

Hence why I don't bother with a case. Because end of day it doesn't matter.

Everyone here has called me dumb or not worthy of being played with.

Instead of helping through claimed "dumbness" and explaining "obvious"

They sit on their high horse.

Can you ignore your scumread on Me and RM and look for scum outside of this?

If you cannot, youre a detriment today.

If you can, good - help me figure it out because I still have a scum pool of 4-5 people and im not certain enough who is scum and lynchable today in the time remaining.

[Vecna]

The start of the scumread is irrelevant Vecna what matters is whether it is true now and it is.

No it is not

.

And if you townread RM, you better start believing him because he has acces to the hood and a lot more information than you.

Were the town duo here, and neither of us is ever getting lynched - but scum will try to NK us heavily.

Now, im giving you a choice one final time.

Either you work with me here, we find a good lynch in the lynchpool that has scum in it.....you get invited to the neighbourhood tonight and all will hopefully make sense.....

or you can force us to throw the game by lynching you, and once again feel stupid afterwards when you enter the dead thread and see the truth and realize my pool is correct and you once again obstructed it.

[Vecna]

There is such a thing as being scumread for the wrong reasons Vecna.

Just because you attack or defend someone doesn't make you Town or scum it is what you say how you say it and if it is believed.

Why would I defend town when its lylo -1 as scum?

WHY? entering lylo with 3 scum is an UNLOOSABLE SITUATION.

[Vecna]

VOTE: Titus

[Vecna]

well, kid, my vote was on vecna for a while

no one listened, I decided to go next best thing, which was the bulge

totally good moving back to vecna or titus at this point

What about momo? Or gerry?

[Vecna]

There is such a thing as being scumread for the wrong reasons Vecna.

Just because you attack or defend someone doesn't make you Town or scum it is what you say how you say it and if it is believed.

Why would I defend town when its lylo -1 as scum?

WHY? entering lylo with 3 scum is an UNLOOSABLE SITUATION.

Because I can take down scum in LYLO see Titus Open where I nailed her as scum and her buddies.

3 way LYLO as scum is actually really hard to pull off.

However that is my take not yours.

Let's just do Titus today.

My gut still pings you but as long as you AtE all over the thread that isn't protown so let's just do Titus.

This post is bullshit. Having town lynch scum back-to-back for 3 days is something that happens VERY rarely.

If we dont lynch scum today, we loose - its that simple.

Townreading RM and scumreading me is nonsensical to the extreme.

[Vecna]

Mod - is this day going to have an extension, seeing how there still isnt a replacement for the bulge?

[Vecna]

I guess KidAmn could still be scum btw.

Even with Zach town, having both those roles be town, combined with 2 lovers.....and a 1shot cop....it just doesnt make too much sense.

At the same time, giving that role to scum is weird as well.

Meh, w/e

Bulge is still a good lynch. All-town 4man neighbourhoods from the start of the game is sort of a weird thing.

KidAmn being afraid of me knowing he went to reality is still potentially scummy as well, allthough him trying to dodge the NK does sound like a plausible explenation.

[Vecna]

I have uncontested claimed Jailkeeper D1 and swept except vig.
Uncontested claims are meaningless.

Their claims are confirmed.

[Vecna]

Bulge is still a good lynch. All-town 4man neighbourhoods from the start of the game is sort of a weird thing.

If Math is town, I will do this tomorrow. I cannot see any scenario where Math alive tomorrow is good for us.

Were not lynching for that reason. If you have reason to believe he is scum, fine.

If not, get lynched on

[Vecna]

Proving Vecna scum is not game throwing Kid.

That word gets thrown around a lot when people don't do what you want and it pisses me off.

WHY THE SHITDICKS ARE YOU NOT VOTING VECNA IF YOU THINK VECNA IS SCUM

WHY ARE YOU VOTING FOR THE BULGE, THE WAGON VECNA WANTS

When did you start to scumread me?

Why does your frustration push away your logic?

You dont think my case on you had merit seeing how well all the pieces fit into place?

We still need to have Zach confirm he is the role we think he is.

This still needs an answer (except the last sentence).

[Vecna]

Actual scum (most likely): The bulge, momo, Gerry

Potentially replace one of them with Titus or KidAmn

[Vecna]

Gerry has suddenly vanished.

[Vecna]

Also, another reason why we need to lynch scum today;

People are gonna be giving me unnessacery shit if i get a guilty tomorrow.

[Vecna]

I have uncontested claimed Jailkeeper D1 and swept except vig.
Uncontested claims are meaningless.

Their claims are confirmed.

They are uncontested.

Even if truthful it is not alignment indicative.

I think it is for Zach actually.

Because it is totally plausible to think your mirror is town if you are.

Its rather unlikely to try save KidAmn in the way he did if he's scum.

The two of them being mirrored also totally explains the weird shenanigans going on between the slots ive been picking up on all game long.

Dont think theyre both scum in any universe.

[Vecna]

Hey, I'd like to see your rationale for keeping Math alive Vecna. I think you're town afraid of repeating the ABR lynch in Civ.

We have no space for policy lynches.

If we did we'd have to lynch Math, Gerry and a ton of lurkers.

I dont believe in 3 back-to-back scumlynches.

I do believe if we lynch in my scumpool today and hit scum, and I get to have Math in my neighbourhood ill get through to them.

[Vecna]

Hey, I'd like to see your rationale for keeping Math alive Vecna. I think you're town afraid of repeating the ABR lynch in Civ.

We have no space for policy lynches.

If we did we'd have to lynch Math, Gerry and a ton of lurkers.

I dont believe in 3 back-to-back scumlynches.

I do believe if we lynch in my scumpool today and hit scum, and I get to have Math in my neighbourhood ill get through to them.

Like 6 days in Civ wasn't enough? With me yelling in their ear? You think you can do in one day what the rest of us failed to do in 6?

Today is the last day for a policy lynch unless another policy gets lucky and we hit scum.

I think we can if we use the intent to vote strategy. Not great odds but it's the better play.

If you guess wrong, Math will vote you in lylo and will just be policied at that point anyway.

So by not lynching Math, you're betting that all the town come together on 3 straight scum lynches anyway because Math refuses to reconsider ever.

And you think the same doesnt apply to drealmerz and Gerry? they will fuck town over just as badly if not worse, and if you think theres scum in there then please - lets lynch Gerry.

[Vecna]

Nope, the only thing thatll save us is a scum lynch, today.

[Vecna]

Ugh how I hate lurkers.

[Vecna]

The intent to vote strategy is as follows

No one casts a vote that counts immediately.
Cast intent to vote until a player would be hypothetically lynched.
The hypo lynched player casts the first real vote.

This will never work in this setup.

[Vecna]

So I oppose a The Buldge lynch because aside for reads and anything, that is currently an empty slot. I want to hear the replacement, get a read on the replacement, and such.

Can you not like, do slightly more than 1 line every 2 days?

Youre talking about wanting to read people....then read people.

You havent given an opinion about nearly anything in this game. All you've said is that you'd want to lynch obv-town random or near-obv town math.

What opinions do you have about the other people?

[Vecna]

That explains a lot actually.

[Vecna]

So I oppose a The Buldge lynch because aside

for reads and anything, that is currently an empty slot

. I want to hear the replacement, get a read on the replacement, and such.

So is your slot

I do have to say, your one major saving grace is that we could enter any game together and just entertain ourselves by throwing around witty attacks on people.

[Vecna]

How do you distinguish between what math is doing here and in civ Kid?

Like, im not convinced by the stuff youre stating that is different - at all

Maybe you can explain it some more to me like the dummy that i am

[Vecna]

*nod*

I do like the idea of both of them being CWs to each other

let's see where the rest fall

I absolutely agree with Titus being scum and me being Town.

If I have to I will go down with this ship

Neither. We have three days left. More than enough time to lynch scum Titus. I am on the wagon block. I don't compromise to someone just to say my own ass with three days left. Plenty of time.

Hmm.. I see what we're going up against here.


drealmerz... we have to fuse

Drealmerz is unavailable and has an appointment with the police tonight.

[Vecna]

That is some weird form of fingering eachother

[Vecna]

vecna I really can't understand how you can even begin to suspect me after the points I raised about our scumgame together, but then, I didn't read your addressings of it either - I guess you were just defensive because I was making a case for you as scum rather than seeing why I'm town?

You not using neighbourhoods does not town-clear you, no matter how much youd like it to dunnstral. Other mechanics in this game are just as good of an explenation. If you cannot understand that - then tough luck. Ill find out your allignment tonight and if town we can work together tomorrow.

[Vecna]

I've been touted for being a spectacularly brilliant cunninglinguist myself

I can clear my own nose with my tongue, if I were so inclined. Generally i prefer other activities with it.

This has become some awkward bragging.

[Vecna]

ehm yeah, case of too similair names I guess. I think its quite clear whom I meant with the quote being there and all.

[Vecna]

Why not Mono or Bulge, gerry?

Or Titus?

[Vecna]

vecna I really can't understand how you can even begin to suspect me after the points I raised about our scumgame together, but then, I didn't read your addressings of it either - I guess you were just defensive because I was making a case for you as scum rather than seeing why I'm town?

You not using neighbourhoods does not town-clear you, no matter how much youd like it to dunnstral. Other mechanics in this game are just as good of an explenation. If you cannot understand that - then tough luck. Ill find out your allignment tonight and if town we can work together tomorrow.

I didn't say it town cleared me, what the fuck

this is why I think you're scum, you keep misrepping things left and right

I dont misrep anything, but you saying I "should know better" because youre not all over the neighbourhoods, while other game mechanics can easily explain that just is not a good argument. Whether I use the term town-clear, or "I should know youre town" doesnt really matter much in this instance. Calling it a misrep is pointless.

Im still not sure whether youre scum or town here. Youre not actually giving me much and I could see you do it as both allignments.

Ive already stated something along the lines of "gun to me head, youre probaly town if id have to choose, but its really close for me".

Also welcome Gamma.

[Vecna]

Lets not argue about this shall we? There is a 0% chance you'll get me lynched this game. If im scum and youre town you've already lost.

Im going to cop you tonight, and tomorrow you'll either work with me, continue being stubborn and lose us the game,or get lynched if it returns a guilty.

I know you dont respond well to such stuff, but that is just the way it is. I really have no interest in continuing to fling poop here. Your read on me is wrong. I understand youre suspicious of me given our history, but this is my town game. If you want confirmation and inside information feel free to hop to VR tonight to check whats going on.

[Vecna]

Fair enough, let me try not to be a snide asshole here then.

Im having difficulty discerning the scum team here. Ill be honest about it, I have trouble reading into lurkers.

I could see gerry's play come from both town and scum. The same really applies to everyone here, really.

Math and your play are -slightly- less likely to come from scum imo at this point.

RM is not going to be a lynch candidate ever for me. Zach is probably also a bad idea for a lynch, even though id wish he would do stuff already.

[Vecna]

and, you saying "hop into VR tonight" just doesn't work, and with how you are with mechanics, I feel like you should know that and you saying such pings me again

the selection is made at the end of the Night phase for the next Day/Night cycle - I wouldn't be able to join the chat until N5

The selection is made during the night, and you swap right after at the start of the day. So you'd be in there from the start of the next dayphase.

[Vecna]

Math, talk to me about all the other slots (not titus, and not KidAmn).

[Vecna]

Even if youre correct about those 2, theres still another scum to find.

Im starting to think its a good idea to have a massclaim here. If we mislynch this game is a loss, nearly guaranteed. Scum allready have plenty of good nightkill targets.

Thoughts?

[Vecna]

its still good to discuss the picture people have about the gamestate Math. Its a great way to gauge honestly and how people are looking at things.

[Vecna]

Alisae is "only" heavily hinted to be town, like extremely hinted to be town and i personnaly believe he is town by their plays, rxns and other stuff but ""officially"" they arent mod confirmed to me in fact

oh my

VOTE: pepsiman

What the hell past me

Hah, at least youre recognizing how uber-scum your slot has been eh. you have your work cut out for you.

[Vecna]

and, you saying "hop into VR tonight" just doesn't work, and with how you are with mechanics, I feel like you should know that and you saying such pings me again

the selection is made at the end of the Night phase for the next Day/Night cycle - I wouldn't be able to join the chat until N5

The selection is made during the night, and you swap right after at the start of the day. So you'd be in there from the start of the next dayphase.

ah, didn't realize they were open during that Day

no wonder ppl are so quiet this whole game

hoods open in Day = kills the main thread soooo much in games

Pretty sure me and RM are the only ones actually talking in a hood (well except for scum, allthough KA claims his role doesnt keep open scumchat).

[Vecna]

Btw, is there even another linked PT up atm?

Me, Rm and Drealz are linked.

KidAmn was linked to giga but broke it.

did anyone else form links at any point? We need to know, because its not at all unlikely that scum could have abilities that activate through being linked together (something similair to the abilities of our former lovers for example). People using excuses all the time that links are pro-mafia just isnt good enough and only makes me more suspicious of something else going on.

That makes Kid scum. No way Giga doesn't use a fucking hood.

what
that makes no sense
VOTE: mathblade
i refuse to believe this level of bullshit comes from town. you are making up so much shit to justify your contrived points of view.

Yes RC was masons with Frogger.

He fucking used the hood that game.

RC+Giga are hella active.

There is no way they don't post in the hood.

You still feel RM is town Vecna?

Yes, im hooded with RM and hes my strongest TR.

[Vecna]

Its been there since the start Mathblade, the founders PT. The lovers were part of it as well.

Its been inactive since N1 since the Bulge left reality. (its only active if at least 2 people are remaining in reality).

[Vecna]

Also, GE - im not promising ill be in reality tomorrow. Itll depend on whether we nail the scum reality killer today.

[Vecna]

Since we allready have 2 cop claims regardless, scum will have plenty of NK targets for the next 2-3 days. We/I need more information to sort out organized night actions. Yes itll mean that scum get to have a good kill now, but itll increase town organization/efficiency and allow us to have a better targeted lynch today.

THE TIME IS HERE. IT IS TIME FOR MASSCLAIMS.

from everyone we need to following information:

Full roleclaim, including requirements for where you need to be to use your abilities.

Location on Night 1/2/3. In some cases it can be acceptable not to provide your location right now, but this probably wont matter to much anyway.

Actions/targets

[Vecna]

Its been there since the start Mathblade, the founders PT. The lovers were part of it as well.

Its been inactive since N1 since the Bulge left reality. (its only active if at least 2 people are remaining in reality).

I said no Garciaing Vecna. I wanted Gamma to answer.

Oh, I dont know what garciaing is, sorry

[Vecna]

No delays please, if youre here - just out with it.

The longer I have to wait, the more suspicious I become due to potential scum daychat discussions.

[Vecna]

UNVOTE: whoever it is im voting

[Vecna]

Since we allready have 2 cop claims regardless, scum will have plenty of NK targets for the next 2-3 days. We/I need more information to sort out organized night actions. Yes itll mean that scum get to have a good kill now, but itll increase town organization/efficiency and allow us to have a better targeted lynch today.

THE TIME IS HERE. IT IS TIME FOR MASSCLAIMS.

from everyone we need to following information:

Full roleclaim, including requirements for where you need to be to use your abilities.

Location on Night 1/2/3. In some cases it can be acceptable not to provide your location right now, but this probably wont matter to much anyway.

Actions/targets

If I have to pick between you and Gerry I pick Gerry.

I don't accept mass claim from a scumread.

Then get ready to be lynched.

[Vecna]

And im waiting for Gerry's fullclaim to decide whether it can be real alongside mine, or whether its likely fake. Not gonna pass any judgement just yet.

[Vecna]

In fact, im even going to hold off on my reads for now - but I think I have all 3 scum nailed. Awaiting mass-claim results to confirm/contradict my suspicions.

[Vecna]

Since we allready have 2 cop claims regardless, scum will have plenty of NK targets for the next 2-3 days. We/I need more information to sort out organized night actions. Yes itll mean that scum get to have a good kill now, but itll increase town organization/efficiency and allow us to have a better targeted lynch today.

THE TIME IS HERE. IT IS TIME FOR MASSCLAIMS.

from everyone we need to following information:

Full roleclaim, including requirements for where you need to be to use your abilities.

Location on Night 1/2/3. In some cases it can be acceptable not to provide your location right now, but this probably wont matter to much anyway.

Actions/targets

If I have to pick between you and Gerry I pick Gerry.

I don't accept mass claim from a scumread.

Then get ready to be lynched.

There are two cop claims that need sorting.
One of those two cops is demanding mass claim.

That is sketchy as fuck. You also didn't say so before.

Try to lynch me I dare you.

VOTE: Vecna

Going back to bed again.

How about you just stop being stubborn, and realize that a mass-claim in this state of the game is the proper course of action. Town Mathblade should realize that here, because its obvious.

The mechanics mean were looking at 1 scum in reality, and two in VR. Its near guaranteed. The mechanics show us that some mechanics are mirrored / dual in nature. This applies to the scum NK mechanic, the encryption mechanic, and potentially the cops here. Lets away the claim first and then decide whether it is a CC or not.

Now Math, there is no harm in claiming atm. Scum are going to try to kill the cops anyway - so that do you have to hide regardless?

[Vecna]

Proper arguments Drealmerz. If we mislynch today, we lose the game.

What fucking point is there in not mass-claiming.

The only ones that are going to heavily protest this are the scum that know theyll be caught.

[Vecna]

We have Gerry that just claimed a cop.

I have full-claimed

Momo softed/claimed a town PR.

We know the roles of KidAmn & Zach

We know part of the role of the bulge

What do you and mathblade have to hide? Theres a scumpool, and interestingly enough most of them are the ones that havent yet claimed.

Scum are going to have plenty of targets to NK since they allready know who is fake-claiming and who isnt. There are plenty of targets availlable.

Were going to close the information gap and lynch scum today.

[Vecna]

TLDR: I allready know the roles of nearly everyone. I need to have full disclosure to seperate the liars from the town.

This is the proper course of action. Taking a risk at losing the game without full information - THAT is the improper course of action.

[Vecna]

But hey, I understand you need an excuse to buy time and come up with proper claims in your scumchat.

[Vecna]

Gerry, they already have people they can kill fully. At least 2 of them. This is going to flush out the liars.

Trust me, if youre town I allready know -exactly- how your role is called, because itll be mirrored to mine.

I can reveal where you are if I want to. I allready know, because I setup spec the hell out of any game.

That is if you are town.

Prove it to me, and ill fullclear you and we will never lynch you. Mafia cannot know these details.

We need to be able to townclear people here. Its important so we dont mislynch here, ok?

Trust me on this please.

[Vecna]

Ok how about this;

Go to your role pm.

In the line below allignment itll state your role.

Tell me how the cop is described there, but leave out the Reality/Virtual reality part.

[Vecna]

Who did you investigate and when? What was the result?

1 shot or multiple uses?

[Vecna]

Gerry, you were telling me not to cop Drealmerz, so clearly you believe me. Why wont you work with me.

Scum most likely have a roleblocker. Theyll try to kill one of us, and rb the other regardless.

If we can discover the pool of potential killers for each dimension from the scum-team we can effectively make people into treestumps.

Like if we can lynch the reality killer, everyone in reality will be safe (well not really, but they can continue using their reality powers and being a treestump).

You see what I mean right? Give me a little so I can confirm you as town, and reduce our lynchpool by 1.

Dont tell me whether youre in reality or VR - if I can confirm you as town I already know.

[Vecna]

Gamma, would you be so kind as to claim your role to me?

Im busy solving the puzzle, and with a few more claims I believe ill have the entire scumteam locked in.

[Vecna]

Drealmerz, converse with me.

You know theres one more reality killer out there. You know we ALLREADY KNOW that youre in reality.

Either youre scum, or you have a valid claim thatll clear you here.

The direct CC to you is Kid, whose given us a valid claim that is confirmed by ZACH (and the existance of it is confirmed by me and GE).

We need to know whether its just the 2 of you that are part of our lynchpool today.

You cannot possibly deny that working towards eliminating the reality killer is a good thing.

Having treestumps on everyone, and scum being unable to interfere with reality powers is a great thing.

So help me out here.

[Vecna]

Gamma, would you be so kind as to claim your role to me?

Im busy solving the puzzle, and with a few more claims I believe ill have the entire scumteam locked in.

Aside from the Founders neighborhood, I have no special abilities. So I'm just a neighbor.

Can you confirm what links The bulge tried to form?

[Vecna]

people need to learn to get their fucking egos out of the fucking game

vecna, no, I don't know any of that

quit telling me what you think I know, what the fuck

'either this or this or you're scum' you say - again, more scum ultimatums trying to pidgeonhole shit to suit your agenda

you are scum through and through, vecna

No drealmerz, this is me sorting the game.

You know im good with mechanics. You have seen it first-hand. Stop blocking me from doing what im good at, and realize when I have a solid plan to solve the game.

[Vecna]

You played with me in that small witch-hunters game where you saw me call out the entire scumteam on day, and then draw a NK as vt with a masterfull fake-claim that scum believed.

Stop denying that I can break games open, especially when im gonna combine reads with mechanics.

[Vecna]

except your plan doesn't look anything solid to me other than scum figuring out how to maneuver to endgame for the win

I have a poe pool where i Think I have the scumteam allready drealmerz.

I think I even know their entire team composition - roles wise. I just need claims to verify, and I can most likely give you scum lynches back to back to back, 3 days in a row.

You dont have any reads, you claimed so yourself. So if youre not going to solve this game, please - allow me to do it.

And no, I wasnt playing anything like -this- in PYP where I was opposing people gathering information and we were actively sabotaging the solving effort. This is nothing like that.

[Vecna]

Gamma, would you be so kind as to claim your role to me?

Im busy solving the puzzle, and with a few more claims I believe ill have the entire scumteam locked in.

Aside from the Founders neighborhood, I have no special abilities. So I'm just a neighbor.

Can you confirm what links The bulge tried to form?

No. When I asked the mod he gave me a vague answer. I might try to be more direct.

Yeah please do.....because its looking rather strange that he'd abandon that neighbourhood for no reason.....especially since he didnt link up to anyone at all, nor did he try if im reading your iso.

It doesnt match at all with a VT claim tbh. It matches a lot better with a scum-role.

[Vecna]

Yeah I dont know either Zach.....Math is townreading RM, yet doesnt get that I -totally- townpocketed RM.

We'll be a voting block for the rest of the game, no matter what happens pretty much.

If I was scum, me and RM would simply hammer math here and just need 1 other person to vote alongside us tomorrow.

If instead they would open their eyes and help me solve the game, because I have a PoE pool of like 4 people, and im 96% sure that its correct at this point (and it even has 2 of Math's scumreads in it!)......but yeah, hurray, apparently this is the more preferred option to them.

[Vecna]

Yeah tomorrow is lylo if we mislynch, and itll be 5 town vs 3 scum. The odds of winning that is why were massclaiming today.

Id like ZACH and KIDAMN to confirm whether they have any other abilities.

[Vecna]

My predecessor tried to link with Zachstralkita n3 and failed

The moderator just confirmed this to you?

[Vecna]

DONT PUT MATHBLADE AT L-1, UNVOTE RIGHT FUCKING NOW.

[Vecna]

Were going to wait with that, untill I have the information I need.

[Vecna]

Were narrowing this game down to the exact scumteam. I believe I can do it even without a cop report or a flip at this point. I just need people to cooperate with me.

Momo, please explain your role, because I dont understand what your effect does at all.

[Vecna]

Yeah I dont want any blitz-shenanigans at this point. We still have time.

[Vecna]

So it doesnt state its talking about private topics....it literally states you enable the full-time reality chat? For living people? or dead people? Or it doesnt specifiy?

Be as descriptive as possible please.

[Vecna]

Flavour / job description within the company?

[Vecna]

For as long as I am alive, I enable role(s) that allow reality communication during the day.

Almost word for word there. I have to leave now though. See y'all around 11:30 maybe

Zach / KidAmn - can any of you make any sense of this in combination with your role / pm's?

Right now its looking like a very dodgy fakeclaim to me.

@momo - please try to get the moderator to explain it to you what your role does, so you can explain it to us.

Right now im not making heads or tails of it, since we already have 2 people that enable all daydalk.

[Vecna]

Your encryption ability states nothing about it just being reality communication, correct?

[Vecna]

Im so gonna rub it all over Mathblades & Drealmerz face if my mass-claim call just resulted in a blatant scumslip.

[Vecna]

Thank you for your assistance sir Zachary - it has been duly appreciated.

[Vecna]

If this was indeed a scumslip it also strongly indicates theres no scum day-chat, or scum is really not at all aware how the game operates.

Im holding off judgement for now, but this appears to be a slamdunk in any sense of the word.

[Vecna]

And I guess if it turns out that momo is telling the truth on lynch, its suddenly looking like both KidAmn and Zach are confirmed scum. But that would also mean there would have to be ANOTHER person with a role that activates reality daychat for PT's.

And the odds of such a person not cc'ing anything zach or KidAmn have stated up untill this point would be really really low.

but in the offchance; any1 wanna do a good attempt at trying to save poor momo?

[Vecna]

"But Vecna, youre such a terrible dumbass, mass-claims are playing right into scum hands, this is not the proper course of action. Weh, Weh, Weeeeeeh".

Fucking LAWL

[Vecna]

Now that I just caught ourselves a confirmed scum - can we just mass-claim so I can point out the other ones as well please?

Like Gerry, if we can confirm you as a real cop, its probably gonna be just smooth smooth sailing from here on out. I just really want to give you guys some direction in case scum do have a way to circumvent my bluff-card bulletproof claim.

After everyone claimed im going to take some guesses to the exact roles of scum just for the heck of it to see how close I can get.

Did I allready state that im as a matter of fact the CEO of this company?

Be good employees please, and cooperate.

[Vecna]

Lets not hammer it straight away zach, id really like to finnish this mass-claim business and put a solid lock on this game in case scum have like a Strongman. It wouldnt surprise me in a setup with a doctor and a bodyguard.

[Vecna]

Btw Zach.........reading CLUMSY's role pm.....it states that he's an EX NAVY SEAL. navy seals killing in reality makes a lot of sense.

Now.....think about it for a second for whom it would make sense to kill in VR........

The flavour when CLUMSY died also indicates that EverHope was getting hacked, and that a virus was detected.

.....yeah, im sure youre getting what im thinking here.

[Vecna]

WARNING: HIGH DEGREE OF PURE SPECULATION IS ABOUT TO FOLLOW:

My prediction is that Gamma Emerald / The Bulge is quite likely JASON GARISH........my deceased husband - whom still has access to the founders link, and is now back for revenge against his poor wife, CEO of EverHope.

My role PM state mys interest is programming (and solving mysteries, how appropriate).....so it wouldnt be that surprising if my former husband liked the same thing.

So I think either GE or KidAMN is the hacker expert from the scumteam. Flavour indicates all around that EverHope is getting hacked and hit by virusses. One of them, or both, is likely a VIRTUAL REALITY NIGHT-KILLER. One of them probably also has the VIRTUAL REALITY ROLEBLOCKER.

I feel that it is unlikely that both ENCRYPTORS would be town, given that we already had the two lovers. This would mean we'd pretty much had 4 townclears / likely town straight away. Combined with 1-2 cops, that'd be a lot of townclearing. Even without 2 cops (aka gerry fake-claiming), we still have a lot of town-clearing. This makes it quite likely the scumteam has like a godfather type of role as well imo.

[Vecna]

Down the rabbithole.

Down the rabbithole.

Im feeling like one of those conspiracy nutcases speculating myself into an alien invasion.

But im quite sure theres at least 1 correct point of speculation in the above ^

[Vecna]

Dear mod - could I impose on you to ask for a link to the end of day3 / start of day4 in the opening post?

Having to search for page 110 in this MF forum template is such a pain in my ass, and putting bookmarks on all the different devices I use isnt the best of solutions id think.

[Vecna]

Hmmmm, but at the same time - adding scum to a PT with two lovers, thatll drag the other down with them (only if killed completely) is almost kind of evil - since that PT would allow scum to nightkill the lovers completely at any time.

[Vecna]

Such a shame that the lovers died day1 - those are some well-designed roles, looking over them again.

[Vecna]

Such a shame that the lovers died day1 - those are some well-designed roles, looking over them again.

you mean it's too bad that the players that drew the lover roles played like such anti-town shit that they couldn't even live past D1

Really, after all that just happened -that- is the post youre going to respond to?

[Vecna]

Ok gamestate / reads post

Town:

Vecna
Randomidget
Zach

Stubborn Anti-town that could still be town but are making our wincondition -that- much harder to achieve:

Mathblade
Drealmerz
Gerry

In need of sorting, but at least appearing willing to cooperate

Titus
Gamma Emerald

Scumslip/scum

Momo

HACKERMAN (but not sure where to put):
KidAmn

Like, were so damn close, but people are so extremely unwilling to work with me.......

[Vecna]

Drealmerz, cmon man....ffs.

[Vecna]

Are you really this bad at telling me apart from PYP here? Is it really not that blatantly obvious that im actually trying to solve the game?

Just work with me here on this mass-claim, its the right thing to do.

What is your claim gonna reveal that will be so shocking to scum? What role could be worth protecting more than 2 cop claims? They allready know youre in reality, its out there so blatantly. At least explain it to the rest of us as well so we know whether we can eliminate you from the scumpool.

[Vecna]

tell me, what sense does it make for vecna to claim the way he claimed, and also claim that he is going to cop me?

ZERO

if he is actually town, scum either kills him to prevent him from giving his result on me (most likely the scenario if he is town), and leaving me alive for the ML

or they kill me to render his copping of me useless and leave him alive ...why would they leave him alive if he's doing SUCH A GREAT JOB at discerning the scum team?

if he's scum, I'm likely the NK because he can then just come and say "damn, I got a clear on him and now he's dead, that was useless" (remember when he asked the mod if he gets a result on a player who also dies?) - which is what I've been seeing him set up for

how he has played doesn't make sense as town, to me, if anyone else can make sense of it, I'd love to hear what I'm missing

I asked if -I- still got the result if I died....because you know, you can push an earlier post? (thus me being able to make my result known that way).

[Vecna]

all I can do is guess, it's not like I'm 100% certain he's scum (I'm not so arrogant as that), but how he's playing doesn't seem at all towny to me, and, again, seems like a downright scum agenda

why doesn't he push gerry more? because he knows if that gets lynched he's exposed as more likely a liar

the need arises to lynch momo, if momo and him are scumbuds, from his desire to get more towncred, momo is a fine sacrifice for the long-haul if you're scum because you know he likely doesn't live much longer even if he lives today, best to just get on board with it if they're scumbuds

titus is likely his scumbud in my view

Have you seen me push him for details about his claim?

Because he's flat-out refusing to give any.

And you and math being anti-fullclaim is only helping him there.

[Vecna]

But vecna after my role being explained do you stillnSR me. Cause I think it has become clear that I am town. Will be back l8r

Not clear to me at all - your claim makes no sense whatsoever.

All reality based PTs are based on physical face to face meetings, or old mechanical telephone lines.

Some role suddenly shutting those down, or enabling them makes no sense at all.

That, and the fact your claim has changed 3 times now as far as I can tell.

[Vecna]

I know how to play. Here's a hint, no one but you or Math SRs Vecna.

then show me you know how to play by explaining your view

playing mafia is not "x,y,z,k,a,b think this, so it is true, duhobviously"

I've explained why I SR him, you can't explain why you TR him

maybe he is town and you know he is town becaues you're scum and you just want him pocketed?

yes vecna, that is what I said, that you asked if you get a result if your target dies - why are you repeating that back to me?

No drealmerz, i asked if i get a result still if ME, VECNA, I, dies.

as in, is the death resolved before the cop investigation. Go and browse the iso's of me and the mod.

[Vecna]

all I can do is guess, it's not like I'm 100% certain he's scum (I'm not so arrogant as that), but how he's playing doesn't seem at all towny to me, and, again, seems like a downright scum agenda

why doesn't he push gerry more? because he knows if that gets lynched he's exposed as more likely a liar

the need arises to lynch momo, if momo and him are scumbuds, from his desire to get more towncred, momo is a fine sacrifice for the long-haul if you're scum because you know he likely doesn't live much longer even if he lives today, best to just get on board with it if they're scumbuds

titus is likely his scumbud in my view

Have you seen me push him for details about his claim?

Because he's flat-out refusing to give any.

And you and math being anti-fullclaim is only helping him there.

Why don't we just massclaim here?

Thats what ive been advocating for the last 8 hours.

But people are being a pain in my ass, even though my mass-claim just caused momo to slip (most likely, even though this stuff is weird as fuck).

[Vecna]

pushing for details of his claim is not the same as pushing for his lynch

wow

Because I think its possible were both town?

[Vecna]

Mathblade, you told me you'd sheep me if I were to catch scum.

Im in the process of catching all of them. You still have a promise to uphold to me. Are you discounting I most likely caught momo? Are you discounting I saved your ass earlier yet again by calling off momo trying to push through your lynch?

Do your claim thing please.

Same for you Titus.

Then we pressure Gerry afterwards. I can compare if the technical aspect & the way its worded & the dimensional requirements make him town, or scum fakeclaiming.

This game has inner consistency, mechanically speaking.

[Vecna]

Youre not hammering anything without my approval Titus.

[Vecna]

And id like your fullclaim.

Full ability set.

Taken actions.

Chosen dimenion per night.

[Vecna]

This is dumb. VT.

Reality or VR?

[Vecna]

Tried linking with Random then you. Neither worked.

You never asked me to link?

[Vecna]

Whats your flavour math?

[Vecna]

Cmon Titus, out with that claim.

chop-chop.

[Vecna]

I am Angela Grey, VT Reality.

Occupation in the flavour?

[Vecna]

Hmm, so far everyone has had an occupation in their role pm.

[Vecna]

And what if I told you that RM also claimed to be a VT without profession?

And the fact that you guys took just enough time to copy Gigabyte's flavour?

[Vecna]

Having dinner, back in an hour.

DO NOT LYNCH ANY1 YET.

And please, make it so that Gerry claims his full details (he doesnt have to claim Reality or VR, but the naming, limitations and options for his role are all important).

[Vecna]

Also Dreal, id like some reasoning why u stuck to reality as opposed to using them hoods.

[Vecna]

Might as well declare occupation though it's somewhat basic: I'm a founder of Simotech. I'd assume my occupation is administratation et cetera. My name is Thomas Anderson.

Whats your age?

[Vecna]

47

Do not forget this guys. This might well be a scum-slip.

47 years old, and claiming that their occupation is "founder".

Go back to read Robert White's age. 72. His wife was 68.

They were the founders. Their flavour when they died stated they've been working on Simo-tech and Everhope since they were very young.

My age is 52. Im the current CEO.

It doesnt state that my occupation is FOUNDER, and this seems very weird for an occupation.

[Vecna]

47

Do not forget this guys. This might well be a scum-slip.

47 years old, and claiming that their occupation is "founder".

Go back to read Robert White's age. 72. His wife was 68.

They were the founders. Their flavour when they died stated they've been working on Simo-tech and Everhope since they were very young.

My age is 52. Im the current CEO.

It doesnt state that my occupation is FOUNDER, and this seems very weird for an occupation.

wait i thought you were the wife

According to my role pm my husband is deceased.

Im still betting he actually isnt and GE is my husband just pretending to be dead to do his weird coup.

[Vecna]

I checked, it says founder and 47 so apparently IS has no knowledge of how time works

Whats your employee number?

[Vecna]

Anyways, we really need Gerry to answer these questions since theres a rather specific mechanic as well involving the way you cop people.

Im pretty pretty sure if he's shit-claiming ill be able to point it out like N-P.

[Vecna]

Yeah my earlier statement might not be as great.

EverHope is the simulation thing I guess.....Simotech is just a company that came later.

The 2 lovers actually had higher personel numbers than me, so I guess the age thing dont matter much.

[Vecna]

OK GUYS, GOOD NEWS.

I have made us some nice friendship circles! Seeing how we have so many "wonderfull" VT claims, it dont matter shit where you guys are anyway.....

Tonight........

Gamma Emerald & KidAmn should link up.

Zach and titus should link up (if we end up lynching Titus instead you can link with Gerry).

Mathblade will link up with me and RM (he can randomly pick either of us to be invited into our little friendzone)

Drealmerz should stay in our link as well. He can choose where-ever he wants to go (reality or VR).

Gerry doesnt like friends, so w/e - he can be the lynch if he doesnt provide accurate details on his cop-claim.

Momo is scum so can be avoided.

this way, we know who is linked. If people die under suspicious circumstances (meaning a full kill) while scum shouldnt know where he is, we can look at his partner.

BUT, more importantly, we can start narrowing down the scum by having at least 1 person know who is where. When were approaching 1 scum, we can be quite sure whether he needs to be in VR or Reality to do the nightkill, meaning our list of suspects will shrink a lot. This way we can also retroactively look back on nights starting tomorrow night, and narrow down who is where.

You can know where someone is, but checking whether they can talk to you. Only people in VR can talk to you in a link.

[Vecna]

I guess this is the point where we wait 3 days for gerry to finally say something again -_-

[Vecna]

I think hes talking about the clumsy thing....which doeant mean a whole lot.

[Vecna]

There's no proof of a bg even existing. With vts potentially being guards the flavour makes plenty sense for a guard as well.

[Vecna]

Ok, since gerry is being so stubborn ill just claim it for him.

Gerry is a virtual reality cop. He needs to be in VR to cop people. The only thing i wanna know is whether he is a one-shot or whether he has extra uses and other results.

[Vecna]

Were not voting gerry here, momo is our lynch today.

[Vecna]

VOTE: Momo

My other best bet for scum is titus.

The third scum is in GE/Dreal/KA or gerry if im wrong here.

[Vecna]

Remember the links i want you guys to form during the night. You can also puah back your last will post after you died, so make sure to make use of your last wills in a proper manner.

[Vecna]

Depending on the flip ill leave instructions in our pt for RM. Were inviting math as well.

Trust RM in all matters of strategy. He is more informed than most. I havent tols you guys everything.

My best speculation on the scum team: were likely facing a VR roleblocker (could be GE or KA), potentially a godfather type of role if gerry is for real......and i have no idea about the last role (maybe daychat?).

Combinations of these roles on a certain slot is also possible. Some roles are clearly designed so people have to choose whether they want to be in reality or vr. My role works in such a way.....and im expecting the same will apply to a scum.

Also keep in mind.....als vt's have just been totally blank roles......yet GE was a claimed vt starting in a hood while all other people in that hood were pr's and town. Doesnt condemn the slot but it sure looks hella fishy.

[Vecna]

Now.....lets lynch.

[Vecna]

Oh btw, seeing how that was hammer - im not really a cop

[Vecna]

i was expecting to get NKed last night but Titus still gets lynched there tbh. me being alive today was a p muh guaranteed win but we probably win anyway. Pretty happy with correctly calling ge/titus yesterday. titus im assuming you are a strongman?

Yay for teamwork RM!

A pleasure again as allways - the plan mightve not gone completely as intended, but I still view it as a succes, even though I miraculously died there ^^

[Vecna]

Scum had quite a few things we could use:

Metal detector: If you are in reality, you may check a player. You will learn if they have a gun. This ability also sees guns in virtual reality. Players with guns are other mafia factions, vigilantes, cops and all variants and PGO's.
system.reset(); If you are in Virtual Reality, you may reset all Virtual Reality links of a target player.

Power intervention: If you are in reality, you may shut down all non-factional communication for the next Night Phase.

Hacker Training/Navy Seal Training: You may convert a hacker to a former navy seal or vica versa.
If you change to a former navy seal, you can only kill players in Reality while in Reality.
If you change to a hacker, you can only kill players in Virtual Reality while in Virtual Reality.
You can convert yourself. There is no location required to use this ability.

world.execute(Player player); If you are in Virtual Reality, you may choose to fully kill a player who has died in either Reality or Virtual Reality, but not in both. Someone else may still perform the nightkill on the night you use this.


It had to be someone else than the nightkiller to use these, and lack of people in the scum thread while I was alive and trying to use these led to them not being used at all. :/

Wow......I wouldve loved to have been scum with that set of abilities........

Why did you guys not abuse that conversion after I was going crazy that it was obvious there were 2 reality and 2 VR? It couldve given you such easy false townclears on people ^^

Anyways, apologies for the lying people - But I had to balance keeping RM alive for town auto, not making it too obvious I did in fact have a 1shot cop, while also trying to force the NK on me regardless so RM could save me. 2/3 wasnt too bad I guess.

Also Math, next time - pretty please, dont make my life so hard every game? (And sorry to KidAmn for doing the same to you, but just see it as a compliment that I see you pulling off that kind of high level play as scum I guess).

Thanks for the great setup mod - Its almost a shame that it didnt get the full player attention it deserved because it had the potential for some very interesting endgame.

Btw, how did I die? I still didnt spot a strongman. Guess i have some checking of full scum abilities to do.

[Vecna]

Oh, people did actually try to link me last night - Guess I ended up choosing poorly in the end. Was on RM at first, but didnt think KidAmn was onto it since he never responded to RM's question whether zach/KA would link to me.

Sitting in VR without even being able to push a message was kind of lonely, and then I botch it up myself in the end. oops.

[Vecna]

Oh I see, guess I misunderstood him then when he explained its use.

[Vecna]

when do the pt's become availlable?

[Vecna]

Your PT has remained locked