Real Folk Blues Rematch [GAME OVER]

[Socrates]

Jesus Christ I just found the thread and it's already 10 pages.

[Socrates]

Candy sounds nice.

But what is this about being good? I am a shining beacon of dignity and decorum, and there is not a single example on this website of me being anything but such ever at any time in any thread no sir what are you looking at me like that for

[Socrates]

Shit, I was writing a post and this goddamn tablet refreshed the window for no goddamn reason and it's all gone. I must walk away from this thing for a moment. Apologies.

[Socrates]

Who wants me to sheep them?

[Socrates]

Who wants me to sheep them?

Hi

Are you caught up? I'm thinking about voting A50.

Only in the most nominal of senses. My eyes have technically passed over all the words in this thread, yet I retain nothing and every page that passes I feel like I somehow have fewer thoughts than I had previously.

To add to that, if this IS multiball like people are assuming, then my only real experience with multiball tells me that I won't be able to build constructive, worthwhile reads until we get one scumflip and can start sorting people into groups.

I threw this post out hoping someone would engage with me and help me get into this game. It seems to have failed in the context.

The only real observations I can cling to at the moment is that LUV wasn't a belligerant ass the one time I saw him play town, (NOR a spammer!?) and Siblings_Quarrel is super fucking town here and I find people's continued insistence that they aren't doing anything but playing defense to be completely nonsensical.

I'm going to place my vote with my heart for now.

VOTE: Scott and Ramona

[Socrates]

Please don't leave me here, Jiffy!

[Socrates]

@Socrates: I TR Siblings, but claiming they're doing much beyond being super defensive seems false to me. Idk frogger, but I know Ali, and he hasn't been trying to game solve in the way I'm used to seeing. Frogger admitted to be doing damage control, but the admitting of it is a town tell imo. That doesn't mean theyre not defensive though, so I question what exactly you see differently? Your post reads to me like you want on their good side.

I also dislike this overarching excuse to not have any real reads or conviction. It's a large game, but I have reads, even if plenty are null or just not grabbing my attention yet. D1 reads aren't this difficult to come by. I know you're better than this when town.

Explain. You wanted to be engaged, so here you go.

Off the top of my head, Frogger has been shoving his face down S&R's throat and then named 4 people they scumread, and, as a testiment to how hard I am finding it to keep up with this game, jumped on someone else and moved their vote there in a way that I liked yet cannot recall the context. They have been playing defense, but there is a key difference between doing nothing but self-protection and responding to all comers while still playing the game. I feel they are clearly doing the latter.

[Socrates]

Socrates feels like lost sheepie @ Socrates is this your first experience with a high post large game?

This is my first large game after a 6 year hiatus from the site, and the site meta is very different now from when I left. (It used to be "OMG WOULD PEOPLE STOP WITH THE WALLPOSITNG!?", and now it's "OMG WOULD PEOPLE STOP WITH THE SPAMMING!?"). Probably a bad choice, but there are a number of players here I wanted to play with.

[Socrates]

its ok just keep on trying

meanwhile any thoughts on the game so far? Besides on SQ and S and R hydrae which you have already mentioned.

I'm liking both your and Tywin's encouragement to help move me along, though I worry I'm making it too easy on you guys.

I completely missed Not_Fury's cop claim and walkback, I need to go and find it in her iso before making comment there.

Titus and probably rb are likely town, regardless of how pro-town you feel about their flavor stuff. They seem to be trying to find a form a voting block, and scum want to join or break up blocks, not start them in my experience.

I think Wall has been doing a surprisingly good job of sharing thoughts while sticking to their gimmick. He has too many posts under a gimmick that he said was surprisingly hard to do, and they don't feel like fluff even if I can't recall offhand what their current stances are in general. And to piggyback on Majiffy's comment about him doing you a solid with helping you read his posts, scum!Wall could easily have taken your statement and took it as an opportunity to shove you out of being able to read him by literally not being able to read him and, if you were buddies, wouldn't feel the need to accommodate you in-game.
On the other hand, he in particular is the person I am talking about when I said I found people's characterization of SQ nonsensical, because he keeps saying he expects more fire out of Frogger yet I've seen nothing BUT fire out of Frogger.

[Socrates]

Nope.

[Socrates]

_|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|
___|___|My opinion matters more|___|___|__
_|___|___|___|than yours.|___|___|___|
___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|__

___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|__
_|___||___|
___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|__

I just gave you to perfect opportunity to expand upon and articulate your differing perspective -- perhaps even convincing me of your correctness! -- and instead you chose to belittle me.

Why?

[Socrates]

@socrates i don't feel fire out of fro99er. He has lots of opinions yes but it's not the fire of enthusiasm that I'd expect.

In fact it's pretty amazing that after 140 of their posts I can't even get an appreciable read on this slot. Probs scum

Can you articulate what 'enthusiasm' actually means in a coherent way that might be enlightening to me?

[Socrates]

One minor phenommina that I did see in multi ball was the designated mislynch getting double teamed by both scum teams. Both sides dogpile, then see the others players (of another alignment) dog piling on as well and it seems like this weird consensus forming out of the blue, but it's really something much sillier. Have we had a number of wagons like that in this game?

[Socrates]

Do you feel like you have found your voice since the last time we played, Uzi?

[Socrates]

Oooh, I catch up just in time to see a daykill.

I assume the votecount is going to reset with the kill?

[Socrates]

What was your thoughts from your catch up

I mean, Nero's flipflop on SlySly and Gamma is some goddamn slop scumplay, but me saying that feels pointless now.

Gamma's not a member of a scumteam.

I was really on board for ending the day as I read, and people are going to have to explain how Smith making an attempt to see both sides of you/SQ on the SlySly wagon is scummy.

Other thoughts are still percolating. Will post as they cohere.

[Socrates]

Cerberus's role is finicky in a weird way. Like, it's weird to me that a role with that much Mod-subjectivity to it would make it into the game. Not necessarily trying to throw shade, just scratching my head at that one.

[Socrates]

Titus, does RB taking back his flavor claim mean he's Off The List?

[Socrates]

Scum have fakeclaims.

VOTE: slysly

[Socrates]

As opposed to this game breaking flavor.

[Socrates]

Which reminds me: Smith: The traitor bit you called out is off base. The Heavy Metal Queen makes no sense as a traitor, nor would a scumteam be able to pick up on that character being a traitor even if she was. If whoever that person was (I forget who) is scum, they breadcrumbed their fakeclaim at best.

[Socrates]

I have zero flavor familiarity so had no idea what he was actually saying; the whole "yeah I know what you're talking about" bit seemed weird to me, so I just dumped my thought on what it might be off the top of my head,

This game has prompted me to start rewatching it, and it definitely feels like it holds up.

Hey Titus, you seem well informed on the show:

Spoiler:

Is Spike's artificial eye supposed to be cybernetically enhanced? I never noticed how pervasive the minor background motif around it was as a kid.
I thought it was an excuse to give him a distinct look.[/quote]

[Socrates]

Fucked up the spoiler tag. Shame.

[Socrates]

Spike has an artificial eye?

Spoiler:

every bebop member is artificially altered in some subtle way. Jet has a prosthetic arm, Fae is a woman out of time, Ein is a data dog, and Ed is a super hacker. Spike has an artificial eye. Episode 13 mentions it.

[Socrates]

Are the people who are derailing the sly wagon the same people who did it the first time? I can't be assed to look.

The way you guys are setting this all up, all Sly has to do is continue lurking.

[Socrates]

Derailing the biggest wagon in favor of the flavor of the hour is the worst way to go about that, then?

[Socrates]

i think Sly is scum. i just don't want him lynched before he claims. easy enough to flip back on him.

pedit: Alisae, will you do me a favour and obvtown this game earlier instead of right at the end after a lot of pushing? would save me a lot of time.

What do you do if Sly never claims, and suddenly Nos is the bigger wagon?

[Socrates]

I was going to say that I'm calling it now that Titus is a VT and her whole thing about flavor hunting is an elaborate gambit based on her knowledge of the flavor to build a town bloc and draw the NK, but then I saw that she more or less just admitted to that.

[Socrates]

White knifing.

[Socrates]

White knifing.

1) It's white KNIGHTING
2) Who is wking whom?

Tywin's typo was amusing.

[Socrates]

NC, can you explain to me how Tywin is different here from our last game? I got so mad at him.

[Socrates]

Tywin: you've been harping on about multiball this whole time and you expect me to give a shit that my nullscum SR wagon is dissolving in favour of my SR? haha.

You don't have a case? All votes on me are naked. You're scum and know I've caught you, so I cant expect you to actually care to what I'm saying. You're obvious to me, but maybe I'll be listened to after I flip.

We are not in a court room. My case is you annoy the fuck out of me and are not on my list. You have the largest wagon.

No he doesn't? And he didn't when you voted him?

[Socrates]

He also pulled out a scumread on me out of nowhere seemingly just because I indirectly hurt his feelings and then harped on that until it got under my skin. His scumread on you feels similar.

[Socrates]

Prodded.

Hey Aristophanes. Did you roll scum again?

[Socrates]

I will try to post more tomorrow, but off the top of my head, I don't see myself voting mhsmith today.

Davesaz's distrust of Titus's claim seems like genuine paranoia rather than scum motivated. Like, the only scenario to do that is if Titus was his scumbuddy and is getting ahead of her eventual flip, and that seems unlikely. Otherwise there isn't much benefit to fighting it. Besides, he should be given a chance to prove that his role is pro-town.

I see that Maria is semi-cleared.

I don't understand why people are scumreading PV. Can someone direct me, there?

Gork is super townie.

I have no meta on Math, but he seems far too emotionally invested in his reads for it to be faked.

Assuming multiball, Syndicate needs to get their asses in gear and start hunting the other team before they fall further behind, not just settle for an easy, safe mislynch. Whereas I would expect the other scumteam to be fairly complacent today.

I could definitely see ZZZX flipping scum, but he seems like low-hanging-fruit here.

I must admit my eyes glaze over Ramicus and most of the talk surrounding him. Eh.

NC is town. I lean-town on Tywin, his bitterness isn't out of character for how he's acted in the towngames I've seen him play.

Cerb is a discussion for later days.

Eh. I feel like there's more that I should be commenting on, but I feel like I'm blanking.

[Socrates]

If Aristophanes doesn't follow through on his promise, kill him.

[Socrates]

Pressure is best accomplished by loudly coming down on a person's ass.

[Socrates]

but he seems like low-hanging-fruit here.

[Socrates]

Also, big props to Tywin for giving a sincere apology devoid of passive aggressive snark.

++respect

[Socrates]

Eh, I just got out of a game where I, as scum, leaned on ZZZX as an easy mislynch. I want more from him before I draw conclusion. Pressure is totally warranted, but I'm ready to jump down his throat.

[Socrates]

I'm *not ready.

[Socrates]

That's balls and you know it. Townies find themselves without strong feelings all the time. Look at MariaR, not just in this game but our last game. I honestly don't have many scumreads. It's frustrating.

[Socrates]

This game in particular is annoying because I feel like I have an incomplete view of any given player because there's so much I've skimmed and glossed over despite my best efforts. I gave my best attempt at putting what feelings I have into words, and it turned out to be a bunch of town-reads.

AND since it's supposedly multiball, lacking focus isn't really a scumtell, because scum should want to have focus themselves. Even if I was a member of one team, I would want to hunt the other.

[Socrates]

AND since it's supposedly multiball, lacking focus isn't really a scumtell, because scum should want to have focus themselves. Even if I was a member of one team, I would want to hunt the other.

And now you're pinging my scumdar. The quoted is giving me the impression you're doing what you perceive a townie would, hence you're posturing and not scum hunting, i.e. you're scum.

Is it my imagination, or are you following Tywin around?

[Socrates]

Pressure is totally warranted, but I'm ready to jump down his throat.

What pressure are you talking about here, when the guy only has 2, maybe 3 votes on him?? I don't see him being pressured @L-12

Lots of people are starting to call him out on it, even if they arn't voting him, and his reaction to it clearly shows he cares.

[Socrates]

My point is that deliberately affecting a neutral tone is bad play in this scenario regardless of alignment, so don't throw it at me as some sort of purely reliable scum-tell. I'm poorly positioned here, and all showing weakness accomplishes is causing the sharks to smell blood (looking at you). I'm trying to get a foothold back into this game, so I'm posting my thoughts. Sorry it isn't up to your standards.

[Socrates]

I agree that justifying an insult is the wrong approach. I hope you'd be able to look past it and instead want to policy lynch Titus. But if that's not the case, then I understand.

this is also not the solution. policy lynching isn't for getting rid of players one doesn't want to play with for out of game reasons.

Tywin said something he shouldn't have, and apologized for it after being called out. that's all that should happen. no playing devil's advocate because someone 'overreacted'.

also:
VOTE: Socrates
i don't like that last interaction.

Nuh uh. You're going to have to give me more than that.

[Socrates]

If Aristophanes doesn't follow through on his promise, kill him.

I forgot he made a promise, what was it

To catch up today.

[Socrates]

VOTE: Socrates

This is how you pressure scums, guys, not with posturing

Posturing is definitely going to have to go on the List 2.0

[Socrates]

Has Drixx made a single post without the word "titus"?

[Socrates]

Socrates: can you get a better read on Ramcius? why don't you like Ramcius scumreads?

When I say my eyes glaze over, I mean he falls in that category of player I instinctively ignore for whatever reason, probably because I just don't find them interesting. Can you cliffnotes your scumread on him for me?

[Socrates]

Probably, but it's meaningless alignment wise. There are things in the situations referenced that do legitimately bother him and influence his(hell, our) interactions with Titus, and his character is such that those thoughts will be shared, and likely ahead of game significant thoughts he has.

Basically, a firm fuck you from me if you want to cast shade on him about thst.

I do want to hear more of his thoughts, thus my questions, but what we've seen so far us of no significance.

People have been hounding him to talk about someone, anyone but Titus and he has been patently ignoring that. This doesn't raise an eyebrow?

[Socrates]

Hows this for scum reads, Tywin: Almost's piggybacking of your SR on me felt hollow, just looking for a rhetorical foothold to get at me, and then he disappears once I indicate that I'm shark hunting. Ramicus's vote on me while calling the other flak on me 'posturing' raises an eyebrow and NC voting me on the back of a vague 'I don't like this' is disturbingly out of character for them.

Compare that to Cerberus, who gave me a hearty 'fuck you' but, when I pushed back, didn't twist it into a scumread on me despite having a perfect window to fan the flames on a fledgling wagon. Not shark.

@Ari: You and I both know what I'm seeing here. Uzi should see it too.

[Socrates]

And don't think I didn't notice the catch-22 of me 'not doing anything' yet mentioning Drixx is 'deflecting', especially when you acknowledged the validity of the observation.

[Socrates]

Hows this for scum reads, Tywin: Almost's piggybacking of your SR on me felt hollow, just looking for a rhetorical foothold to get at me, and then he disappears once I indicate that I'm shark hunting. Ramicus's vote on me while calling the other flak on me 'posturing' raises an eyebrow and NC voting me on the back of a vague 'I don't like this' is disturbingly out of character for them.

Compare that to Cerberus, who gave me a hearty 'fuck you' but, when I pushed back, didn't twist it into a scumread on me despite having a perfect window to fan the flames on a fledgling wagon. Not shark.

@Ari: You and I both know what I'm seeing here. Uzi should see it too.

Ok I like where you're going with this, except you just now SR these players after they've already voted you. I understand they can be real reads and not just OMGUS, but it is also by definition, omgus when that's all the SRs you have. I don't really blame you, since I do it too, but it looks bad when you had no reads until voted, then suddenly SR only those on your wagon.

Let me ask you this: If you were on the outside looking in at your slot, what would be your read? TR or SR? Why?

A lesson in shark hunting:

Prick your finger, stick it in the water, and let the sharks come to you.

Who is looking at me for rhetorical food, and who is actually trying to sort my alignment?

I'm explicity making a point of giving serious blowback to everyone who suddenly 'scumreads' me out of nowhere in an attempt to sort them. I don't think they are all scum, (though with two scumteams I expect both to jump on me*) but which ones pass muster remains to be seen.

You're engaging me with a serious tone, and trying to elicit more out of my slot. Compare that to Almost, who didn't even respond to my rebuttal but rather shifted angles and doubled down on calling me scum. Ramicus has failed to say word one about me other than his vote, and NC hasn't returned to the thread yet.

Dave's sidelining has also been noted, for the record.

To answer your question: Any answer I give necessarily poisons the well for obvious reasons, but I would say neutral. I haven't yet obvtowned myself, but I haven't done anything to warrant a scumread outside of general lack of presence. I would also point out that I explicitly tried to stop people from derailing the Sly wagon, but I expect people to dismiss that as WIFOM WIFOM blah blah.

*remember this post?

One minor phenommina that I did see in multi ball was the designated mislynch getting double teamed by both scum teams. Both sides dogpile, then see the others players (of another alignment) dog piling on as well and it seems like this weird consensus forming out of the blue, but it's really something much sillier. Have we had a number of wagons like that in this game?

VOTE: Almost

[Socrates]

*remember this post?

One minor phenommina that I did see in multi ball was the designated mislynch getting double teamed by both scum teams. Both sides dogpile, then see the others players (of another alignment) dog piling on as well and it seems like this weird consensus forming out of the blue, but it's really something much sillier. Have we had a number of wagons like that in this game?

VOTE: Almost

Then maybe you can explain why there are only 2 votes on you thus far (mine should the 3rd in spirit, but doesn't count yet)?? I see no dogpiling what-so-ever, and it feels like your team doesn't want to bus you and the other team is not willing to expose themselves to your team.

That said, I'll bite (y'know.. me being a poodle and all)

VOTE: Socrates

You must be blind. Tywin looks at me funny, and suddenly you, Ram, NC, and dave all say they want to lynch me. And oh look. Another 3 votes on me with little to no justification.

Smooth move changing your angle of attack yet again. Dance, Poodle! Dance!

[Socrates]

VOTE: socrates
reminds me of oddrole here

Explain.

[Socrates]

I hate this game

VOTE: Soc

Am I the reason you hate this game or...?

[Socrates]

Titus, are you just sheeping Maria even without any resoning to it?

[Socrates]

Titus, are you just sheeping Maria even without any resoning to it?

Yes. There are no wagons going and you aren't in my high town reads. I don't see what Tywin sees in Odd Role but we were partners there so that could skew things.

Is there a single vote on me that you actually agree with?

[Socrates]

I forgot that Dave breadcrumbed his flavor. He's officially upgraded from day-pass to prob-town.

@NC: And I happily await your elaboration.

[Socrates]

Ramicus, you say you don't have strong reads, so what am I to make of your vote on me?

[Socrates]

If his crumbed character exists in the game, that role is pro-town and loud. And I can't think of an anti-town equivalent off the top of my head.

[Socrates]

I'm talking flavor, not mechanics.

[Socrates]

And yes, all the flipped roles so far have followed flavor, the scumteam is given flakeclaims instead of breaking flavor here.

[Socrates]

And I said I can't think of an anti-town character that would fit.

[Socrates]

Wait, how is an anti-town flavor a safe claim or do you not know how a safe claim works?

...You should reread this conversation.

[Socrates]

If his crumbed character exists in the game, that role is pro-town and loud. And I can't think of an anti-town equivalent off the top of my head.

[Socrates]

If it's a fakeclaim, his real role would still need to follow flavor.

[Socrates]

Can we not talk flavor tho

Nope.

[Socrates]

If it's a fakeclaim, his real role would still need to follow flavor.

Yes.

And if it is a safe claim it would be safe to crumb it to.

Again still NAI.

--Math

I don't like Socrates either.

You aren't listening, so I guess we're done talking.

It's not like Dave is getting lynched today, so I'm not too worried about this.

[Socrates]

But like how I really feel?

It'd be fuck off with an easy read on Dave by going by flavor and not his play. Its bullshit

Sounds like someone's upset they can't go after their perferred target because of circumstantial reasons in that players favor.

[Socrates]

Math is listening but you don't grasp the basic fucking concepts of balancing a game with flavor in it

That's not what Math said, big guy. Give me an anti-town character that makes sense as loud. If you can't, then fuck off.

[Socrates]

hi socrates and gin.
both of you stop.
please.
we're wagoning ramcius to death now.
k?
k.
thanks,

K.

VOTE: Ramicus

[Socrates]

Math is listening but you don't grasp the basic fucking concepts of balancing a game with flavor in it

That's not what Math said, big guy. Give me an anti-town character that makes sense as loud. If you can't, then fuck off.

CAN YOU NOT GIVE ME ONE POST AS TO WHY DAVE IS A TOWN READ BY PLAY. I JUST SAID I AM NOT FUCKING WITH FLAVOR

Nope, because you don't get to just throw out MY perspective because 'lol flavor spec'.

[Socrates]

Gork's going to live to endgame just because he wants to die so badly.

[Socrates]

Math, I see you don't have much experience with Wheme. He's similar to me in the sense he doesn't like going back and reading, especially if that reading contains large amounts of wall posts. Some people aren't as diligent or bother to comb through as much as you. You also have to take into account if he was scum, there would be no reason to appear clueless in an effort to not look scummy when Carnelian was widely town read. I think your issues with him stem from play style differences.

Playing the ignorance card is a very common scum-stalling tactic and I'll eat my shorts if none of the players doing it flipped scum. It's why I've got my foot firmly on Aristophane's ass, because that is entirely in his scum-meta. He finally got around to giving some reads on Monday, but he needs to keep it up to avoid my vote.

[Socrates]

This game in particular is annoying because I feel like I have an incomplete view of any given player because there's so much I've skimmed and glossed over despite my best efforts. I gave my best attempt at putting what feelings I have into words, and it turned out to be a bunch of town-reads.

AND since it's supposedly multiball, lacking focus isn't really a scumtell, because scum should want to have focus themselves. Even if I was a member of one team, I would want to hunt the other.

My point is that deliberately affecting a neutral tone is bad play in this scenario regardless of alignment, so don't throw it at me as some sort of purely reliable scum-tell. I'm poorly positioned here, and all showing weakness accomplishes is causing the sharks to smell blood (looking at you). I'm trying to get a foothold back into this game, so I'm posting my thoughts. Sorry it isn't up to your standards.

i understand having lack of focus, but i don't like the defense here and the supposed 'frustration' at the lack of reads. i don't get the sense you're looking to alleviate that frustration by finding some reads or talking to your townreads about helping you find some scum. instead it's just that scum should be focusing on the game, when lack of focus is pretty NAI. town and scum can have trouble in a larger game.

second post: who says you're 'deliberately' being neutral? i can tell you're struggling with reads. and i get the argument that it's not a reliable scumtell. but saying it's scummy for other players to have a problem with that?

Arguing that my lack of reads is scum-motivated implies that I'm doing it strategically. And I didn't say that it was scummy, What's scummy is the slippery way Almost is finding new footholds to protect his scum-read of me.

And how do you feel now that I've shown that I'm deliberately working an angle here to develop my reads?

[Socrates]

Alright, can you point me to the post of yours you mentioned though?

ISO yourself, Ctrl+F for his name?

[Socrates]

I really need to do an iso dive it's hard to catch up but I plan on doing it tomorrow promise I still like my vote

You've scum-read me as town and town-read me as scum. I would expect you to put more thought into how you sort me at this point.

[Socrates]

I really need to do an iso dive it's hard to catch up but I plan on doing it tomorrow promise I still like my vote

You've scum-read me as town and town-read me as scum. I would expect you to put more thought into how you sort me at this point.

I have and I do but if I just worry about my read on you (or anyone for that matter) just because I've read them wrong a few times I'm not going to get anywhere.

That's fair, but you haven't even given a reason why you are scumreading me here.

Thoughts on Ramicus and/or Almost?

[Socrates]

You are a god among men.

[Socrates]

pls board my shiny new wagen

I thought you scumread Ram, am I remembering? We can get precilla tomorrow. (or maybe Almost maybe?)

Ramicus, please reconcile the following two posts:

thats who youre voting????!?!
!>?!?!#
%$%(*&$%(*$%&($*%&(
ERFOIUWYFIUGHIUFDSGHISDFUJHI

yes, i'm voting him, but that doesn't mean i scumread him, you know, people sometimes vote their null reads to sort them, but maybe it's just me, i don't really know

Ramicus, you say you don't have strong reads, so what am I to make of your vote on me?

i don't have strong cases, i'm happy with my reads

Also, forgive the awkward question, but is English your first language?

[Socrates]

Someone drew a gun out and shot Nero Cain!

Spike made contact with the red dragon syndicate head, Mao Yenrai. They set a meeting place he and Julia had set up 3 years earlier where they set out to leave the syndicate together, even though it was forbidden.

It was raining just as it had been before, curtains of grey hitting the cobblestones in the graveyard. In the distance behind him he heard what sounded like...hoofbeats? As he whirled around he heard the hammer of a colt being pulled back with a click.

No, not this ... again.

“Well hellllllloooo there mate, I imagine the 20 million wulong reward will buy me a rather nice new saddle here for Onyx.” that *idiot* who called himself Andy said as he tipped back his white cowboy hat.

Still after all this time he hadn’t caught on to the whole cowboy thing being a gimmick and not something anyone actually did. Metaphors were hard for some people.

Jesus Christ ... He is brain damaged for real

“Andy, you moron,we’ve met! You thought I was the teddy bomber too!” Spike spat incredulously.

“I’m sorry, I don’t seem to recall meeting you.” Andy smiled smugly.

“Now listen here, pal. I’ve had quite enough of you. You need either to get over yourself or stop getting in my way or I’m going to remove you from it permanently!” Spike railed.

“Listen Vicious, your description matches what the bounty says - Messy hair, lanky, former syndicate member, irritable likely a *drug addict*. It says here that I get the reward returning you dead or alive. So I suggest you come along nicely.”

Spike shouted there was no way in hell he was going anywhere with Andy and round housed Onyx in hope of getting the horse to rear and throw its rider.

“Did you just kick MY HORSE? NOBODY KICKS MY HORSE!” and everyone in bar started shooting randomly.

No one realized who was the actual shooter but the syndicate godfather was dead.

Nero Cain ; Mao Yenrai ; Godfather Rolecop aligned with the Syndicate

Spoiler: Nero Cain ROLE PM

Mao Yenrai Godfather Rolecop Aligned with Red Dragon Syndicate Godfather: If anyone investigate you, they will find you as a member of Town (Bounty Hunters). Rolecop: Each night, you may investigate the abilities of a player in game. Factional Kill: Your faction has a night kill. You as a member of the syndicate who has a gun, will be able to do this killing as well. Factional Chat: You can talk with the other members of the syndicate at any time in here . You will win if the red dragon syndicate controls 50% of the votes or more and no other type of scum (Enemy of Town) are alive.

What the shit
I was looking at the updated flavor for the fun factor and found the my flavor (Andy) was specifically mentioned in the death scene of Nero
WTFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

Shoulda just let that one slide, nobody else would have noticed.

[Socrates]

pls board my shiny new wagen

I thought you scumread Ram, am I remembering? We can get precilla tomorrow. (or maybe Almost maybe?)

Ramicus, please reconcile the following two posts:

thats who youre voting????!?!
!>?!?!#
%$%(*&$%(*$%&($*%&(
ERFOIUWYFIUGHIUFDSGHISDFUJHI

yes, i'm voting him, but that doesn't mean i scumread him, you know, people sometimes vote their null reads to sort them, but maybe it's just me, i don't really know

Ramicus, you say you don't have strong reads, so what am I to make of your vote on me?

i don't have strong cases, i'm happy with my reads

Also, forgive the awkward question, but is English your first language?

my vote on you was pressure/reaction test, as i said alongside with my vote

no, English isn't my first language, i know, my grammar is awful

My intent isn't to give you shit, I just noticed oddities in your word usage I associate with non-english speakers (editor here) and it occured to me to wonder it some of the miscommunication here is due to a language barrier.

What do you feel your pressure has accomplished? Has your perception of me changed at all?

[Socrates]

How about we take a moment and do that, then?

I am genuinely curious to see your thoughts.

[Socrates]

what do i do if i start feeling like ramcius's logic is shit-town instead of scum?

We lynch Pricilla or Almost.

[Socrates]

Soc you wanted my thoughts on Almost50 and Ram right?

I'll give you those tonight as I am free.

Please. And how do you feel about Precilla's enterance, as well?

[Socrates]

Because I want you to demonstrate curiosity and a show that you actually had something in mind when you voted me.

[Socrates]

Rb, for the record, are you officially against a Ram lynch right now?

[Socrates]

VOTE: Tywin
happy to wagon here (im fine with a ram lynch bc they are being useless but would rather vote a scumread)
If Tywin is scum then smith is a decent shout for a partner.

Can you explain a couple things here? Is Tywin merely a "happy to wagon" or an actual scum read? And what are you seeing that would connect smith?

when tywin called out gamma's lack of scumreads he left out smith. seems like he wanted to deflect away from himself but not mention a buddy.

Seems like a sloppy way to deflect away from smith, since the most likely outcome is Gamma just going "but Yu missed that scumread", which would emphasize the smith element, not distract from it.

[Socrates]

Oh I miss-read.

[Socrates]

why does ramcius as scum only keep me and insomniac as his two options for scum instead of pushing something actually feasible and compromising?
what exactly is the goal?

-he doesn't know how to do that convincingly, and might think calling you/insomniac scum looks like hunting.

-He might have slipped being non-red-scum and is genuinely bad at hunting the other team.

-He might really be the designated bus, and is taking one for the team.

Look at how hard it was to get him to articulate a read on me, and the level of thought that it had.

[Socrates]

I cannot kill at night.

[Socrates]

That better not be caught in a technicality about an inventor or some shit.

[Socrates]

@Socrates, @Math, What do you think of Tywin's latest postings?

I noticed he said he stayed home, rather than making a statement relating to his ability to kill, unlike most people trying to come up with statements.

Is that what you meant?

[Socrates]

@Socrates, @Math, What do you think of Tywin's latest postings?

I noticed he said he stayed home, rather than making a statement relating to his ability to kill, unlike most people trying to come up with statements.

Is that what you meant?

5518.

Ability to kill is probably AI and spam. Look at the game events ffs.

Oh. I thought it was a joke. Cults are firmly bastard, and I doubt he would expect anyone to take it seriously.

[Socrates]

If abilities are AI indicative then anything useful to scumhunting is in some way alignment indicative, by definition. This is what I meant about his ability seeming so finicky.

pre-edit: The punchline would be the word 'cult' in an obviously absurd context. Do you really think he was trying to shade you with that? That would require HIM being unaware that a cult is impossible.

[Socrates]

Drunkposting FYI. Get me to say something stupid NOW.

[Socrates]

Off the top of my head, Almost, Priscilla, maybe Ramicus (I'm waffling myself, the lack of an exodus onto Priscilla honestly surprised me).

Random is not Ramcius' scumbuddy.

The crossection between Maria's wagon and Ramicus's wagon that isn't named Gork contains at least 2 scum if I'm a betting man.

[Socrates]

It seems Ram is gonna be the wagon today regardless of my output so yay I'll just kick back with a drink yall hf

Ironicly I was townreading Ram I didn't get the whole vibe from time shift mafia but his reads and answers were off beat *shrug*

Maria, if you really are town, it's statements like this that make people scumread you all the time.

[Socrates]

I don't follow. Are you suggesting that he was trying to get the other scumteam to jump on you?

[Socrates]

Well, someone has a lot of energy. Prescila's posting seems pretty consistent with someone familiar with the game, but unfamiliar with the personalities she's dealing with.

For example, giving credit to Tywin for actually saying calling Ram scum as opposed to making excuses is silly, because Tywin calls everyone that annoys him scum. He uses the word too readily, if anything. Ask him, he's fully aware of this himself.

You haven't seen the gradual progression of Gorkington's frustration with trying to deal with uncooperative players and organize focused wagons, and are only coming in at his most exasperated moment, missing the part where he breathed life into the wagon from the start and then waffled himself and jumped off. And his open desire to be rid of players he doesn't like is definitely a personality quirk, no AI.

And If you articulated a town read on Ramcius anywhere in that flurry of posts, I missed it.

OK getting in what I can.

VOTE: Ram
"There are two scum factions in this game"

This is a terrible terrible reason.

That was a statement for Cerberus's lie detector, not a reason to vote.

[Socrates]

And Ramcius' play has been such that if he is scum, his buddies are definitely going to bus him now and stick to the bus to cut off a weak link now and possibly score points, while the other scum team will just be seeing scum from the other side. I fully expect this wagon to be riddled with scum regardless of Ram's alignment, so seeing a lot of weak votes on him doesn't give me as much pause as it normally would, especially since deadline IS looming, as much as we all hate that excuse.

Except that he's probably not red-scum, because they are too far behind to bus unless they absolutely have to.

[Socrates]

And Ramcius' play has been such that if he is scum, his buddies are definitely going to bus him now and stick to the bus to cut off a weak link now and possibly score points, while the other scum team will just be seeing scum from the other side. I fully expect this wagon to be riddled with scum regardless of Ram's alignment, so seeing a lot of weak votes on him doesn't give me as much pause as it normally would, especially since deadline IS looming, as much as we all hate that excuse.

Except that he's probably not red-scum, because they are too far behind to bus unless they absolutely have to.

this sounds like it's coming from a scum mindset (buzzwords leggo), but yous a townie ya.

-Narna
-Narna

Buzzwords or Jargon? Because I am trying to articulate a thought, but maybe it's not making sense.

Now that I'm out of my other games and focusing on this one again, I'm kicking a lot of ideas around in my head about how to handle a multi ball setup (which, as I've previously stated, is not my area of expertise), and a lot of my thoughts are turning towards how I might be able to play the two teams against each other, because town can't do much on their own with so many scum.

[Socrates]

New avatar or old one?

[Socrates]

I could lynch Socrates tbh

Anything I can help you with, kind sir?

[Socrates]

And Ramcius' play has been such that if he is scum, his buddies are definitely going to bus him now and stick to the bus to cut off a weak link now and possibly score points, while the other scum team will just be seeing scum from the other side. I fully expect this wagon to be riddled with scum regardless of Ram's alignment, so seeing a lot of weak votes on him doesn't give me as much pause as it normally would, especially since deadline IS looming, as much as we all hate that excuse.

Except that he's probably not red-scum, because they are too far behind to bus unless they absolutely have to.

this sounds like it's coming from a scum mindset (buzzwords leggo), but yous a townie ya.

-Narna
-Narna

Buzzwords or Jargon? Because I am trying to articulate a thought, but maybe it's not making sense.

Now that I'm out of my other games and focusing on this one again, I'm kicking a lot of ideas around in my head about how to handle a multi ball setup (which, as I've previously stated, is not my area of expertise), and a lot of my thoughts are turning towards how I might be able to play the two teams against each other, because town can't do much on their own with so many scum.

Take my assertion that Random is probably not scumbuddies with Ram.

If Ram does flip scum, the opposing scum team would be able to look at Random and, if he is not on their team, conclude that he is likely town, whereas I'm still in the dark about that one. But, if I approach with the right mindset, I might be able to spot members of the other team shifting their focus around these conclusions they are able to draw using their inside info.

[Socrates]

This setup discussion reminds me, can someone cliff notes me on what happened to the first iteration of this game and why it needed to be re-run?

[Socrates]

Huh. The thought occurred to me that if

I

was the one having to tweak and re-run a setup, changing it from multi-ball to single-ball would be

exactly

what I would do to fuck with people, and Gamma-dayvig, SK, and normal scum NK would sufficiently explain last night's results.

I'm not sure I put much stock in the idea, but out of curiosity, how big would a single scumteam you expect in a game of this size, since you seem to be knowledgeable about balance?

[Socrates]

The scum role PMs basically spewed that it's multiball (or MAYBE one scum faction and a serial killer tho that's still kinda weird, especially given how strong two of the scum PRs were - like, the SK should *always* be the single strongest antitown role, and I can't imagine what would be fair to give a theory SK given the scum flips we've already seen)

But T = 3*S + 1 is a rule of thumb, which would make it 25/8 for 33p, and then since it's 32p it'd be a question of whether they made it 24/8 or 25/7 presuming a sort of normalish role distribution, or whether they gave one team a relative numbers advantage and power disadvantage compared a norm. But the flipped role PM really did seem to spew it multiball of some sort, so I think it's basically just academic.

Well, I could push this line of thinking by asking if the game creator is the type to always use precise yet open-ended vocabulary when writing mechanical things like win-cons, (I.E. they play a lot of Magic: The Gathering), but you're right that this is largely academic so I don't want to clutter the thread too much further.

But if we get to day 5 or so and still haven't seen a second scumteam, I might revisit this.

[Socrates]

Did Tywin confuse Gamma with Ram, who was the person I asked about this and said yes?

[Socrates]

Being ESL.

[Socrates]

Oh my god I cannot believe the endless cavalcade of nonsense I have just read.

The crying over bruised egos, the circle jerk between Cerb and Smith about the gunsmith, Mathblade is still ranting about

something

and just words and words and words.

And the worst part? None of it amounts to anything! Unless one of you is deliberately filibustering, I doubt any of the people I am most exasperated with are mafia.

The scumteam is lurking. Can we please get on with the guilty?

[Socrates]

Except you Gork. You are a shining ray of sanity in this sea of darkness, even if you are a bit mean sometimes.

[Socrates]

Seriously though, actual points of interest: PV should be dead. We have a positive gun check, Dave visiting Maria last night leaves me feeling super vindicated.

I already scumread almost, so maybe I'm just inclined to see his big re-read to be completely flat and hollow. But if I am, he's definitely doing the same to me.

[Socrates]

That post was supposed to end with: What else? I'm sure I skimmed over something important.

[Socrates]

VOTE: Tywin

[Socrates]

If Tywin does flip scum, I'd have said that ZZZX is very unlikely to be their scumbuddy, though I guess that doesn't rule out SK or other team.

@jjh: You should ask the mod instead of assuming. It can't hurt, even if they refuse to answer, and you don't want to be burned by a false assumption if you can avoid it.

[Socrates]

Did ZZZX even read enough of the game to see Carnelian's claim?

[Socrates]

Care to elaborate, Gork?

PreEdit: Scott: Eh, I just checked Doggo's Iso and he only mentions the miller claim offhand a couple times in ~400 posts. I guess it should stick out to another miller, but I can also see someone just missing it, especially someone with the energy level of ZZZX.

[Socrates]

Well, fakeclaims blah blah blah.

Would also make a good traitor, I guess?

[Socrates]

Well, if there's a terrorist faction, that one? But his story was that he was angry and bitter and wanted to strike back at everyone. The idea of him being solo/unaffiliated with the Syndicate but joining them if approached wouldn't necessarily break my brain.

Of course Miller makes MORE sense, since that's all in his past and he's forgotten all about it, but you know.

[Socrates]

I just remembered someone mentioning traitors in the previous setup and it occurred to me to wonder if this could be a signal.

[Socrates]

Am I the only resident flavor-familiar player here, by the way?

I noticed most people are just going by the wiki.

If so, I should get on with finishing my re-watch.

[Socrates]

I thought you were just looking for Bebop crewmembers? I'm not one of them.

[Socrates]

Wait, Wheme claimed Wen? He was a completely unapologetic sociopath who, for example, randomly murders a taxi driver out of pure convenience. Why does he make sense as a miller?

[Socrates]

Not powerful enough to justify being SK? He's literally immortal.

[Socrates]

You think an SK really makes sense in this setup given flips so far? If it's two scum factions and an SK (and a town vig!), then no kills on night 2 is insane. If it's one big scum faction and an SK, then you're looking at something like a 7-8 man scum team with:

godfather rolecop;
ninja;
a bunch of other shit (unless you think we got REALLY lucky and capped their only two PRs early while a bunch of goons were magically not bussed instead of useful PRs)

against... someone who didn't even get a good fake claim? Like an SK with a shit fakeclaim would need to be something like:
full bulletproof AND ascetic and let's just throw in ninja/strongman and maybe an extra added power like bus driver or roleblocker

Translation: lolno

I DID find myself wondering if there was only one scumteam yesterday, and Wen still makes zero sense as a miller. If Wheme didn't know the show and thus just how evil Wen was, he might have been afraid of rolecop and/or lie-detector and claimed his true rolename?

[Socrates]

Wen WOULD be full bulletproof.

[Socrates]

Priscila's a good shot.

I not sure why Gin is on the chopping block? When I sniped at him about Dave yesterday, I was just poking him to see his convictions. Ultimately, it did feel like he actually hated flavor spec, so eh.

48 hours ago I would BEGGED you to shoot me, but I'm feeling better mentally today, so I'll have to politely suggest you shoot elsewhere?

[Socrates]

I mean, I get scumreading me for my detachment I guess, but I am obviously going to advocate for my own town-ness and do I even have any associatives that would be resolved?

Let me ask you: why AM I good shot?

[Socrates]

Hmm, Lin?