Spring Fever (Endgame)

[jjh927]

Aelita, you know your ability to make someone stay in a bond with you? Could you go into detail on it?

[jjh927]

I don't see yours being scum when there's tracker/watcher Dunn and follower shiqf considering you have infinite uses of that document thing you used today.

[jjh927]

Wait, that means your role is exactly the same as Gork's

[jjh927]

The only difference I can see is that he is compulsively active

[jjh927]

Okay, so it's 9:30 am so I'm gonna go to sleep without waiting 10 minutes and refreshing the page.

[jjh927]

Transcend, there seriously aren't enough actions left for me to fuck with.

Also, Random is not cleared by that if he docced Aelita, because I still think the nightkill was me. Super surprised that Random docced Aelita though.


But yeah, have a scenario-

I redirect to Aelita, scuim!Random docs Aelita, scum!Random targets me.

[jjh927]

The only think I can fuck with right now is the scum nightkill and Alisae's vig, and I don't like the idea of being nightkilled much more than I like the idea of being lynched.

[jjh927]

Fair point. I guess that's the same route to go down as scum me both redirecting to and targeting Aelita. I guess you wouldn't.

[jjh927]

I've made it plenty of times but Alisae didn't seem to want to think about it.

Why does scum!me target Aelita with both the nightkill and redirection?

[jjh927]

None at all.

Transcend could have been, I suppose.

[jjh927]

I mean, we can also ask why scum!me kills Titus N4, because there's no reason for it at all.

[jjh927]

I'm pretty certain you're town rn

I think it's interesting that how hard that chain was crumbed tbh, but it wasn't completely obvious.

Lynch still comes down to Fire tbh.

[jjh927]

"that" should be "with" in the bit of that post that doesn't make sense.

[jjh927]

No twilight plz

[jjh927]

Did I have something I needed to answer that I missed?

[jjh927]

I would have happily hammered Fire if I'd have checked this before Random. Chances are, I'm not gonna use the splat on Alisae at all.

[jjh927]

I see literally nothing in your iso from yesterday regarding Eddiebyte that could not be from scum.

But on the other hand, we may as well assume you're flipping town because we win if you don't.

Who's actually scum?

[jjh927]

Oh are we not lynching Fire

[jjh927]

What do you mean?

[jjh927]

Wait, so you win ties with scum? Fuck me I'd have been completely fine with your plan then

[jjh927]

Fullclaim in the mad list of words please.

[jjh927]

Right. Okay then.

VOTE: Aelita

I think this is the scum.

[jjh927]

I was down for lynching Fire but I don't see why he'd have said all the shit he did when we thought he was actually lynched. I had my doubts before then, anyways.

All setup spec should lead you to Aelita.

Aelita's role is essentially a roleblocker that fits in with the bonding mechanic. It's almost exactly the same as Gork's, except that Gork's had a side-thing of protecting someone completely and aiding in communication, whereas Aelita's essentially roleblocks 2 people- one who is going passive, and one who is going active- and breaks their communication.

How is Aelita's role a town role? She is the literal opposite of a neighbourizer. Unless you somehow know there's a bond with scum in it?

It would also have synergised with shiqf's role, unlike any of the other scum flips or any of the other people currently alive.

[jjh927]

Okay, then let's talk about how Aelita this game has had a penchant for advocating self-destructive behaviour and this seems to have caused everyone to absolve her of all responsibility.

There's also the reasons I redirected to her, which came partly from bond stuff. Like, remember when she really wanted to be cleared by the Titus investigation claim? And went aggressive when other people like Vecna were suggested? Think about that.

Vecna (7): Firebringer, Heartless, Mcmenno, Titus, Aelita, Fro99er, Transcend --- That was Vecna's wagon. Aelita and Fire are the only people on that wagon who haven't flipped town or been confirmed as town. Are you saying scum were not on that wagon? And based off of positioning there Aelita is far more likely.

Well, when in bond with me, she was not particularly eager for me to motion detector her- not at all as she was for being cleared when scum were part of the investigation chain. She accepted it as a possibility, but I got the idea she was somewhat ambivalent. That's a severe contrast from her previous attitude to it all.


PEdit: I redirected to Aelita. Anyone who targeted me instead targeted Aelita. If scum went for me as the night kill, then they would instead have attacked Aelita.

You can build yet another point out of this. Aelita had the most up to date information regarding what I was doing as my night action, and it was motion detectoring. I actually changed to redirecting about 5 minutes before the deadline. Other scum might be worried that I might redirect instead.

[jjh927]

Seriously though Transcend- I have explained my redirection to you about 3 times already so you better understand it now or I'm going to have to explain it again

[jjh927]

Fire, I see no reason why that wouldn't happen. I seriously think she'd bus in that scenario.



On what planet would Eddie win a lylo with the game as it was?



PEdit: YES THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED

[jjh927]

Well, again, you're misinterpreting how my redirector works but close enough

[jjh927]

Because Aelita believed I was going to townclear you, Fire.

[jjh927]

I said in the bond I was motion detectoring Fire.

[jjh927]

I was pretty clear about how I was not redirecting.

[jjh927]

I mean, that ended up being a lie but only because I changed my mind.

[jjh927]

PSA: I only target one person with my redirection. This is the person to whom I redirect all actions that target me. Like, if person A and person B are both targeting me, and I target person C, then both of them instead target person C. Why is this so hard to understand

[jjh927]

Random healed Aelita for some inexplicable reason.

[jjh927]

I believe I would be dead had I not changed my mind to redirecting, and Alisae would not be enabled.

[jjh927]

But yeah, there's a big pile of reasons why Aelita is scum here and all we have on Fire is PoE.

[jjh927]

Are you looking for particularly scummy behaviour?

See, what I'd go with is how she engaged in self-destructive behaviour with enough conviction for people to absolve her of any guilt. She reverse-pocketed Titus and today she was going about the same thing asking Alisae what she should do.

[jjh927]

Oh, and what would have happened, assuming Aelita is scum, if we'd have sided with Eddie on day 5?


Also, if she were to fake a guilty and get town lynched, on what planet does Eddie win LyLo?

[jjh927]

OH SHIT I FORGOT THE BEST BIT


Yeah, my moment of madness which turned out to be a great idea had one more cog.

Basically, I gave Aelita some things to tell Alisae IF I died. IF. And that was to prove that she'd bonded with me properly and all.

Her reply was definite, as though she had some reason to believe I was dying that night.

[jjh927]

Was reviewing the bond again and I can't believe I left that bit out

[jjh927]

I can't quote shit exactly from PTs but it was basically along the lines of "I will definitely do that", and when I was looking over the bond again just before deadline I got spooked.

[jjh927]

Shiqf

(9):

Transcend

,

Dunnstral

,

Mcmenno

,

Vecna

,

EddieByte

,

Titus

,

Fro99er

, Aelita, Alisae

Vecna

(7): Firebringer,

Heartless

,

Mcmenno

,

Titus

, Aelita,

Fro99er

,

Transcend

Dunnstral

(7):

Transcend

,

Titus

, Aelita, Firebringer, Randomidget, Alisae,

Mcmenno

Mcmenno

(6): Alisae,

Titus

, Randomidget, Aelita,

Bellaphant

, Firebringer

EddieByte

(4): Aelita,

Transcend

, Firebringer, Alisae


Is this helpful to anyone because I mainly did it for me

[jjh927]

Anyway. The glaring thing is that, with what we know, scum were only on 1 lynch. Knowing that I am town, I know that at least 2 of those other lynches had scum on them, because that is the lowest number of lynches you alive non-Transcend people have been on.

The Dunnstral lynch would be a net 0 towncred because it was a guilty from a conftown.

You get pretty much nothing out of the Eddie lynch either, tbh. The best interactions on day 5 are the ones before Aelita revealed the guilty, and not the votes.

The way the Vecna lynch happened I really don't want to believe everyone on that wagon is town.

Aelita has been on every single wagon, and on each placed her vote within 2 votes after Titus. That's the whole reverse-pocketing thing I'm talking. Titus trusted Aelita because she sheeped the shit out of her. Conveniently, this happened to mean most people disregarded what Aelita was doing and viewed her as an extension of Titus.

Alisae has been on every wagon he could be on. He could not be on the Vecna wagon because Gork bubbled him. Eh.

Fire is a great VCA scum, except VCA is shoddy and IDK why I'm doing this because really this whole thing is made of confirmation bias. But yeah, you might expect 1 scum to be off the shiqf wagon because of the whole splitting votes thing. And then he's on all the other wagons.


So, uh, yeah. VCA for this game is likely total shit rather than mostly shit.

[jjh927]

Trans, do you want me to summarise the case in a single glorious post?

[jjh927]

Okay, I'm working on it. Can we work on getting me a pagetop

[jjh927]

Are you sure

[jjh927]

You still owe me a prize for guessing the Dunn guilty

[jjh927]

I'm done and it's a monster of a post. Are you sure I can't have a pagetop

[jjh927]

Okay, so there's a lot of different facets to this case so I'm going to approach them all separately.

Groundwork

Have a quick recap on last night's actions.

-Random targeted Aelita with his doctoring.
-I redirected anyone who happened to target me to Aelita.
-Scum must therefore have either targeted me or Aelita.
-I maintain that scum targeted me.

In the Bond

Okay, so here's all the shit that happened last night in the bond.

-There's about a page of conversation in the bond PT. Once we've sorted out active/passive roles, I explain what my options are and ask what Aelita thinks I should do.

-She suggests I redirect to her. This idea does not make sense at all coming from town. I believe Aelita was making this suggestion to make me disregard it, guaranteeing I do not redirect to her.

-When I talk about motion detectoring, Aelita does not jump on the idea of me motion detectoring her and townclearing her anywhere near as much as she did for the Titus investigation chain. She also suggests that it's not a good way to clear people because Random healing someone would make motion. Okay, I get it, but Random probably shouldn't have been healing Aelita anyway.

-Aelita's reads at this point were that me and Alisae are town, Fire is the most likely scum, and Random is the next.

-Finally, when I give Aelita some information to pass on to Alisae in the event of my death to prove that she bonded with me properly, she replies in the definite, which frightens me because it implies she thinks I'm dying. I think this is a scumslip.

-On a last note, Aelita has not said anything in the bond today. Not even at the point when I didn't have her as my main scumread.

Scum Strategy

So, how come Aelita just hardbussed Eddie?

-If she didn't, she would have been able to lynch one person, then get lynched. What's the ideal scum LyLo there? Me, Transcend, Eddie? And that's only because Transcend was the only person who actually townread Eddie at that point in the game. Eddie would not have won any possible LyLo.

-If Eddie had managed to convince everyone the other way and we'd lynched scum!Aelita, Eddie might actually have won LyLo.

-Since everyone except me seemed to have this default idea that Aelita wouldn't have bussed Eddie, and people have been using it as an argument for why she's town, it's clear that the move netted her a not towncred.

-If she had fake guiltied a town, then it wouldn't have been too hard to work out that the real target was Eddie anyway because Bella crumbed that she was targeting Eddie.

Scummyness in Aelita's play.

Fire asked what was scummy about Aelita's play. Although there is nothing obvious that pins any currently living player down as scum, Aelita's posts could easily have scum motivation.

-So, Aelita has been trying to set herself up as a sheep. She has not been held accountable for her actions as a result of this, because she's not even holding herself accountable. Instead of risking being seen as making mistakes, she just takes part in others' mistakes.

-With the sheeping, obviously she's been following Titus. One thing that did come out of VCA is a figure that shows that Aelita was essentially an extension of Titus. She's been doing what other people tell her to do. Titus townread her because Aelita reverse-pocketed here. Titus was tunneling on more than enough town for Aelita to be on town lynches with no suspicion on herself. Case in point is the Vecna lynch.

-She only has a PoE read on Fire, but when she voted Fire today

Hesitation to lynch obvious scum is not gonna fly again. Last time I wasn't around to avert it, but this time, I am around, and be sure I will try my darndest to ensure that such a situation doesn't happen again.

Bringing up stuff from the bond again, she said Fire was just more likely, rather than so definitely scum.

-When Vecna was being pushed as a mislynch and sensible people like myself were suggesting he go on the Titus clear chain, Aelita was fiercely against it because she wanted to be cleared or something. This links back to the whole reverse-pocketing thing and her lack of this enthusiasm in the bond last night. I think this bit here is actually outright scummy, not just possible scum motivation.

Vecna, why you trying to take this from me? You know I love neighborhoods. *glares at Vecna* And you are trying to disrupt a bond again for your own selfish interests.

Shit like that. Oh, and for someone who loves neighbourhoods, she hasn't made much use of the one we currently have.

Setup Spec

I know Transcend said not to do this but I think this is quite a strong point.

-Aelita is a a "bonded bonder bonded bond breaker". From what we have been told;
--"Bonded Bonder" means that, at any point when active in a bond, she can fuse with the other person, locking them in the bond as passive forever. With how bond mechanics go, this is essentially a permanent roleblock.
--"Bond Breaker" means that, when active in a bond, she has a night action of breaking a bond. This in itself is an anti-communication thing that also might essentially roleblock the whole bond? I'm not sure if the target's night actions still work if they lose their bond. If they don't then she's got two roleblocking abilities. This ability has a fair amount of synergy with shiqf's role.

-Compare and contrast with Gork's role. Gork was a "Bonded Compulsively Active Conditional Strongman Bonding Bonded Modified Stasisizer".
--"Bonded" refers to how he starts the game in a bond with Aelita. Wait a second, more on this later.
--"Compulsively Active" means he's locked into active. I experienced this first-hand.
--"Conditional Strongman Bonding" refers to how he can permanently lock someone into a bond. In the same way that Aelita claims to. But with a much larger role name. Hmmm.
--"Bonded Modified Stasis" refers to how, when active in a bond, he can remove someone from the game and keep them in his bond until he decides to release them. Comparing this to a role from a normal game, this is essentially a jailkeeper that helps Gork communicate with his target.

-Okay, so now we've done some comparing and contrasting. Aelita is a "Bonded Bonder Bonded Bond Breaker", according to her. Only from Gork's highly similar role PM, we can discern a couple of things.
--First up, "Bonded" is its own thing. That means "Bonder" must be its own thing too, except Aelita is implying it means the same thing as Gork's "Conditional Strongman Bonding". I believe Aelita is therefore lying, because she also separated "Bonded Bonder" as meaning this and we know that to be false.
--Next subpoint is that Aelita is the roleblocker to Gork's jailkeeper, making Aelita's role fairly blatantly scum in a "normal" kind of game, but less obvious when you have to figure it out as the truth behind the role is behind the bonding mechanics.

-Lastly, considering scum have had 3 information roles, I think it's incredibly likely that the last scum is a support role. Aelita is the only one who really fits that category.

[jjh927]

Damn I spotted a typo. There's a bit that says "a not towncred" which should have been "a not insubstantial amount of towncred"

[jjh927]

Uh, what?

Could you please repeat your full roleclaim and the sections within it?

[jjh927]

You also weren't avoiding any possible mistakes. You were just letting other people make the decisions and latching onto them.

Or would you say that lynching Vecna was not a mistake?

[jjh927]

Yes, the fact that you break bonds was provable. That's not what I am contesting.

Also yeah you're essentially a roleblocker.


What is your full roleclaim with all the words?

[jjh927]

No, I scumread you, and not suddenly either, for all the reasons in my big ass case.

Well, Aelita, you haven't actually used your power to break any bonds. The only one you tried was Random and Alisae's, and Titus told you to do that- which again absolves you of responsibility.

[jjh927]

Navy is kinda torn between winning the game and proving she is not useless or stupid as others seem to think.

Also this is you trying to justify that you might use your bond break for no good reason at all.

[jjh927]

See, this is the oxymoron on which my case lies.

You are insistent upon your usefulness and how people should not disregard you, but you're equally insistent on how your opinions are not valuable and you're easily caught as scum.

Only one of those can be true.

[jjh927]

What is your full roleclaim with all the words?

[jjh927]

I want you to say it again, and separate the groups of words that mean different parts of your role.

[jjh927]

Not wanting to be lynched or shot is NAI. Not being dead is an important part of both teams wincons.

What is your full roleclaim with all the words?

[jjh927]

What is your full roleclaim with all the words?

You don't need to give me any exact descriptions. Just give me all the words and split them into the groups of words that make up your abilities

[jjh927]

Also being dead does not aid the town wincon if you can't guarantee a town win in some way. We can't. There are no "benefits" of it. Everything relies on Alisae being town, and, while I'm now fairly happy that he is, I know for a fact I'm town and I don't have the same confidence in him.

[jjh927]

As an example of one possible way of splitting this stuff up, I am a "modified enabler" "limited motion detector" "bonded limited redirector".

[jjh927]

Almost.

Is your "Bonder" clause exactly the same as Gork's "Conditional Strongman Bond" clause?

Fusion (Conditional Strongman Bond): If a player attempts to break a bond after being a passive member of a bond with you, you may fuse with them, locking them in as your passive partner in a Bond.

[jjh927]

Okay, thanks for clarifying that.

You're still scum, but this idea that the two of you have the same ability but called different things just seems off to me.

[jjh927]

Hesitation to lynch obvious scum is not gonna fly again. Last time I wasn't around to avert it, but this time, I am around, and be sure I will try my darndest to ensure that such a situation doesn't happen again.

Like, talk to me about why you consider Fire to be obvious scum all of a sudden when before he was just the most likely

[jjh927]

Me scumreading you is not out of the blue. I've been suspicious of you for a while and I only recently summed everything up.

Neither is your scumreading of Fire, but you originally did that based on PoE. The contradiction is that you've now decided he is obvious scum, rather than just the most likely to be scum. It's a difference in convictions and tone. You didn't have any strength of argument besides PoE for him being scum before, and now you apparently must do because he's "obvious scum" but you don't seem to have presented it.


I don't even think reverse-pocketing is a term. But basically, you were scared that Titus would scumread you so you just copied everything she did, and she townread you for it. Not complicated.

[jjh927]

Well, evidently yes. The fact that Titus townread you is not a convincing counterargument when I'm asserting that your behaviour in its entirety was geared up to specifically deceiving Titus. Also please consider that a vast number of Titus' reads have been wrong.

[jjh927]

Transcend, how is Aelita gamesolving?

[jjh927]

Fire why

[jjh927]

Ugh, who'd hold out on posting just because they wanted a pagetop

[jjh927]

I'd never do that

[jjh927]

Two attempts on my life and I live!

My Aelita case was flawless so I've got that going for me too.

Also I got bored waiting for the flip. I might do more if people ask me to, but some of your avatars are out of my skill level and others don't have mouths. Not that that would stop me if you asked.




Afraid I can't stay and do the whole "Told ya so" thing because I have an exam to go to.

[jjh927]

Back from exam. Ty for saying nice things. Caffeine wearing off.

Look at the case again and how flawless it is.

Spoiler: Splatlock Holmes

Okay, so there's a lot of different facets to this case so I'm going to approach them all separately.

Groundwork

Have a quick recap on last night's actions.

-Random targeted Aelita with his doctoring.
-I redirected anyone who happened to target me to Aelita.
-Scum must therefore have either targeted me or Aelita.
-I maintain that scum targeted me.

In the Bond

Okay, so here's all the shit that happened last night in the bond.

-There's about a page of conversation in the bond PT. Once we've sorted out active/passive roles, I explain what my options are and ask what Aelita thinks I should do.

-She suggests I redirect to her. This idea does not make sense at all coming from town. I believe Aelita was making this suggestion to make me disregard it, guaranteeing I do not redirect to her.

-When I talk about motion detectoring, Aelita does not jump on the idea of me motion detectoring her and townclearing her anywhere near as much as she did for the Titus investigation chain. She also suggests that it's not a good way to clear people because Random healing someone would make motion. Okay, I get it, but Random probably shouldn't have been healing Aelita anyway.

-Aelita's reads at this point were that me and Alisae are town, Fire is the most likely scum, and Random is the next.

-Finally, when I give Aelita some information to pass on to Alisae in the event of my death to prove that she bonded with me properly, she replies in the definite, which frightens me because it implies she thinks I'm dying. I think this is a scumslip.

-On a last note, Aelita has not said anything in the bond today. Not even at the point when I didn't have her as my main scumread.

Scum Strategy

So, how come Aelita just hardbussed Eddie?

-If she didn't, she would have been able to lynch one person, then get lynched. What's the ideal scum LyLo there? Me, Transcend, Eddie? And that's only because Transcend was the only person who actually townread Eddie at that point in the game. Eddie would not have won any possible LyLo.

-If Eddie had managed to convince everyone the other way and we'd lynched scum!Aelita, Eddie might actually have won LyLo.

-Since everyone except me seemed to have this default idea that Aelita wouldn't have bussed Eddie, and people have been using it as an argument for why she's town, it's clear that the move netted her a not towncred.

-If she had fake guiltied a town, then it wouldn't have been too hard to work out that the real target was Eddie anyway because Bella crumbed that she was targeting Eddie.

Scummyness in Aelita's play.

Fire asked what was scummy about Aelita's play. Although there is nothing obvious that pins any currently living player down as scum, Aelita's posts could easily have scum motivation.

-So, Aelita has been trying to set herself up as a sheep. She has not been held accountable for her actions as a result of this, because she's not even holding herself accountable. Instead of risking being seen as making mistakes, she just takes part in others' mistakes.

-With the sheeping, obviously she's been following Titus. One thing that did come out of VCA is a figure that shows that Aelita was essentially an extension of Titus. She's been doing what other people tell her to do. Titus townread her because Aelita reverse-pocketed here. Titus was tunneling on more than enough town for Aelita to be on town lynches with no suspicion on herself. Case in point is the Vecna lynch.

-She only has a PoE read on Fire, but when she voted Fire today

Hesitation to lynch obvious scum is not gonna fly again. Last time I wasn't around to avert it, but this time, I am around, and be sure I will try my darndest to ensure that such a situation doesn't happen again.

Bringing up stuff from the bond again, she said Fire was just more likely, rather than so definitely scum.

-When Vecna was being pushed as a mislynch and sensible people like myself were suggesting he go on the Titus clear chain, Aelita was fiercely against it because she wanted to be cleared or something. This links back to the whole reverse-pocketing thing and her lack of this enthusiasm in the bond last night. I think this bit here is actually outright scummy, not just possible scum motivation.

Vecna, why you trying to take this from me? You know I love neighborhoods. *glares at Vecna* And you are trying to disrupt a bond again for your own selfish interests.

Shit like that. Oh, and for someone who loves neighbourhoods, she hasn't made much use of the one we currently have.

Setup Spec

I know Transcend said not to do this but I think this is quite a strong point.

-Aelita is a a "bonded bonder bonded bond breaker". From what we have been told;
--"Bonded Bonder" means that, at any point when active in a bond, she can fuse with the other person, locking them in the bond as passive forever. With how bond mechanics go, this is essentially a permanent roleblock.
--"Bond Breaker" means that, when active in a bond, she has a night action of breaking a bond. This in itself is an anti-communication thing that also might essentially roleblock the whole bond? I'm not sure if the target's night actions still work if they lose their bond. If they don't then she's got two roleblocking abilities. This ability has a fair amount of synergy with shiqf's role.

-Compare and contrast with Gork's role. Gork was a "Bonded Compulsively Active Conditional Strongman Bonding Bonded Modified Stasisizer".
--"Bonded" refers to how he starts the game in a bond with Aelita. Wait a second, more on this later.
--"Compulsively Active" means he's locked into active. I experienced this first-hand.
--"Conditional Strongman Bonding" refers to how he can permanently lock someone into a bond. In the same way that Aelita claims to. But with a much larger role name. Hmmm.
--"Bonded Modified Stasis" refers to how, when active in a bond, he can remove someone from the game and keep them in his bond until he decides to release them. Comparing this to a role from a normal game, this is essentially a jailkeeper that helps Gork communicate with his target.

-Okay, so now we've done some comparing and contrasting. Aelita is a "Bonded Bonder Bonded Bond Breaker", according to her. Only from Gork's highly similar role PM, we can discern a couple of things.
--First up, "Bonded" is its own thing. That means "Bonder" must be its own thing too, except Aelita is implying it means the same thing as Gork's "Conditional Strongman Bonding". I believe Aelita is therefore lying, because she also separated "Bonded Bonder" as meaning this and we know that to be false.
--Next subpoint is that Aelita is the roleblocker to Gork's jailkeeper, making Aelita's role fairly blatantly scum in a "normal" kind of game, but less obvious when you have to figure it out as the truth behind the role is behind the bonding mechanics.

-Lastly, considering scum have had 3 information roles, I think it's incredibly likely that the last scum is a support role. Aelita is the only one who really fits that category.

Seriously though- Aelita, why did you lie about your role name? You didn't have to and I picked up on the fact that you lied about your role name.

[jjh927]

I think that's approaching the role in the wrong direction.

What if she made like Gork and went to interrogate someone and faked a hard scumread in the bond and then carried it to the thread? She could still go back on the scumread later, but the fusion would be permanent. Conviction in the moment would set it up nicely for a permanent roleblock.

[jjh927]

And yeah, as far as bonds were concerned, Eddiebyte has my sympathy, Dunn got hard-leashed, shiqf was bussed and Aelita was passive except for the 1 night where she did what Titus told her to. Scum pretty much had no night actions they really owned.

[jjh927]

It's funny because your only successful night kills were on people I was bonded with.

[jjh927]

This whole scumgame was just one big anti-jj hate crime

[jjh927]

Oh yeah, and both times you targeted me you ended up targeting the person I was bonded with. Inklings don't die because Splatoon is rated pegi 7.

[jjh927]

Btw Aelita, just for clarification you don't have that whole sheeping ideology, right?

[jjh927]

That was just a really convincing charade?

[jjh927]

Seriously good job on it anyway because it made me townread you. I have the most faith in my reads that I get from 1V1ing people and you got a fair amount of townread from it iirc.

But yeah, the end of this game was a really good case for deliberation over sheeping. People didn't talk about it and just went with the lynch so we lynched the wrong person.

[jjh927]

Actually, Aelita, if you recall I was willing to address your case. It's just that spreading is a common pitfall when it comes to things like this, which is where you get a huge number of weak arguments pooled together, which makes it near impossible to respond to. There's not a lot you can do to respond to that.

I made an effort to talk to you about it by asking you to highlight what you thought your strongest points were, so they could be discussed. That's one way of rebutting spreading, anyhow.


Also

[jjh927]

Do you mean the one in the lobby ages ago? I don't remember much of it; fill me in?

[jjh927]

Oooh I remember now.

I think stuff might have come up with me being a newbie and all, and how it's impossible to expect to approach mafia without ad hom? Something along those lines.

I mean, now I have something I can point to to say I'm good at the game, but nobody else will ever read it because it's over 300 pages long.



Oh yeah and I need sig stuff

[jjh927]

It took jjh pulling out his sleuth hat, being Splatlock Holmes and hitting people in the face with all of the things

I may take this for sig purposes.



Oh, and ofc I have gut. My gut instincts were the things that set off all the alarms bells 5 minutes before night 5 deadline. I was seriously motion detectoring Fire until then. I would have been dead.

And eh. You can definitely be a jerk and have it not be alignment indicative, but that's not usually my style. I'm not averse to acting out different personalities if I think it'll help me get reads and the situation/my role will benefit from it. Typically I just like a combination of logic and highly inferential analysis.

[jjh927]

I still don't understand the point about me asking to scumread Titus but something about it has to go on my sig lmao

[jjh927]

Really looking forward to these PTs opening up.

Based off of shit in the dead chat it sounds like Aelita fakeclaimed hider to Titus, who then found out her real role in the night because she's a rolecop and she didn't tell anyone that Aelita fakeclaimed DESPITE the fact that that was night 2, and so Frogger the Alisae was the nightkill that night.

Am I right on that? If so, whaaaaaat?

[jjh927]

*delete "so" for easier understanding. You know which one.

[jjh927]

Much like the dead chat, the end made me feel pretty good

[jjh927]

I thought the bond mechanic was great, but I think one of the flaws in the setup here was that there was no real need for power roles that determine who is bonding with who. For those to have an actual effect, there'd need to be ways of arranging bonds outside of the main thread.