Kingdom Hearts - Game Over

[nancy]

Foneposting but Shiro I don't think that nothing really matters? Why do you think everyone thinks that? I don't like you saying that very much to be really honest because you have done nothing at all since FA left and I'm sorry but blaming another slot is a really sketchy approach to the gamestate / your inactivity.

@Jae no I don't think you were right there but I understand how you'd see that.

[nancy]

Going to bed, not caught up. But 3979 is either some massive confbiasing or scum. Not sure who drove that post but whoever did should look at it again if town. Every single point is "feels like scumbud interaction" in the vein of plantsy

looking

for such interaction instead of actually finding it. It's like mastina's entire case on me in miniature. Im not really sure I even have the energy to shift this thread sentiment against me, tbh. But I'll address the points directed to me tomorrow.

nancy.

I'm sorry you feel that way. I think most of my conclusions are pretty tentative but I respect that you may feel I'm conf!biasing.

*hug*

[nancy]

Creature to my experience with him is lurky, though I will say that I found his approaching a little bleh, he was talking about wagons and when I opted him to check my reasoning he said he was uniterested, when I proded for him why he said well he didnt say anything and voted somewhere random. I wouldn't put him in a scumpile but for a null read he hasnt given me a good impression

I also like this read for the way that it focuses on what's basically a lurker slot at that point. It feels pretty off the cuff and I don't think Shiro fakes this kind of scumhunting here.

[nancy]

I dunno why I was still posting from hydra lol

[nancy]

I needed the hood, and thought about asking for one but didn't want to soft on D1.
....I wouldn't have needed the vig though. I think that extra decision would have made me cry. Good job Imperium. <3

I really really wanted to hood you! But you know, it's Imperium xP

[nancy]

Ohhhh my god I remember now, TTH they are SO HARD

[nancy]

TTH are you talking about the cavern of remembrance?

I don't remember the name of it but the place where there are those heartless-shaped pink doorway portal things with mini bosses inside each.

[nancy]

Good game!
Thank you to both heads of plantsy for being fantastic hydra partners and putting up with our wacky as shit schedules!

<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3

[nancy]

Scumread on mhsmith happened well before that.

[nancy]

Sorry I couldn't pull it off Smith :/

You tried really hard and I'm proud of your effort. Sorry I couldn't be a better buddy. Also sorry that the game was ridic. townsided but *shrugs*

smith you played awesome. Shiro did too, you guys didn't have it easy and you stuck it out really well, you should be proud of the performance even if it wasn't a winning one.

[nancy]

If I could redo the setup, I would make Maleficent a rolestopper and Xehanort a full watcher.
Would you believe a full watcher being town?

That could be very interesting! Definitely wouldn't believe a full watcher, even-night is a good fakeclaim I think.

[nancy]

If anyone has advice for how I could have done things better I'm happy to listen. I feel decent about my effort overall, but town was generally decent and hard-working, and were also overly stacked w power so I don't really know what I COULD have done better than I did *shrugs*

I'm really not one to be giving advice on scum play, but I can comment I guess and maybe there'll be something useful in my words? Probably I'll talk about what I found scummy. I think there were some little things that I felt like you did in order to get townread where I felt like town!smith would've just done them and not cared. Like the note-taking thing, how you didn't spoil that at all, almost as if the size of it would make it seem townie. It's a tiny little thing but I noticed it, especially after you also did the big catchup. I felt the spamming the game with little posts during that big spree that you pre-wrote to actually be kind of scummy because again it felt like you were trying to seem town through post count. Aside from that the tunnel on Leonshade felt a little like you were trying to play off our read there then you kind of dropped it and it didn't go anywhere once we started townreading him which kind of showed lack of conviction that was a little bit scummy? And I think the way your mastina read was really static was also not super - which is because I have meta from that newbie (1977?) to compare to where you really struggled to sort mastina's alignment and here you were kind of just scumreading her without much concern over the read. Those two reads, the mastina and Leonshade one, were probably the only distinctly scummy reads you had I think, basically because they were static/lacked conviction. But like, that shit is really really hard to do and I think under the circumstances you did an excellent job with it because you had a fuckton on your plate and those are little micro details.

There was also a tonal difference in your game here that was probably the biggest reason I was scumreading you - I'll go grab it from the mason PT and maybe you can try and adjust that for future games. I hope this doesn't just feel like me talking about what you did badly... I'm trying to point out the stuff I caught so that you can notice those things in your play and improve them. You honestly played really really well here, I think your scum range has absolutely increased by a significant amount from what I thought possible from the MU games you showed me so I was really impressed, if you had a stronger team around you I think you would've really flourished in this game because you were super on point with your play here.

Spoiler:

Elaboration on my mhsmith scumread: there are interactions with Oversoul that feel strongly like partner interactions and there's a significant tonal difference in his play this game compared to his towngames as well as a distinct lack of careful thought that I think marks his scumplay. If you look at his towngames there's a level of thought in his posts that is pretty unmistakeable. He doesn't think in straight lines, he pulls a bunch of disparate threads together and tries to work them into something cohesive and reasonable. But all I see from him this game are straight lines.

@plantsy: your quoting of this reads like a +1. What in particular makes you think that I'm ignoring Jae, and what in particular would you expect me to be talkign with them about?

Sorry no, I was saying it for myself. Say hi to me!

Hi! I should probably pay more attention to you I think
FWIW I kind of agree with your 1536 on OS; I guess part of it is there's so little content from the slot that I'm over-weighting a small amount of content but w/e

On a surface level, the deferent tone in this post is not something I see coming from GOAT smith (town!smith). If we go deeper into it, there's a significant incongruency here that's disturbing to me. If we consider what scum!smith and town!smith would be saying with this post (without looking strictly at the exact words in it), what I think we get from town!smith is "I'm surprised that you seem to be gamesolving heavily, we should work together, here's how I agree with you" and what I think we get from scum!smith is "I didn't expect you to have this strong of a thread presence, please like me because I agree with your push on my scumbud".

So if you agree with that overall then we go back and look at the exact words that mhsmith has used here. "I should probably pay more attention to you I think" - does this fit with what town!smith would be wanting to express in this post? I don't think so. It feels like an expression of deference, the "let's work together" element of it is a mere whisper, and there's no sense of pleasure at potentially recognizing a fellow townie who is interested in interacting (and he's implicitly townreading us here, I think), there's no expression of the willingness to challenge my perspective that I think would be there if he were town. And for the next line, "FWIW I kind of agree ..." - the way that this connects with the line above it is kind of crushingly creepy. It's as though he's recognized an opponent that he doesn't think he can compete with ("you just wrecked my scumbud") so he's trying to buddy instead, and the way that he waffles on the Oversoul read is something that reads completely to me like scum posture. I don't think it's town posture because this is more or less a completely efficient way as scum to posture to disguise distancing: "I don't want to conf!bias on this scumread on my bud for bad reasons but maybe I should just ignore that hesitation and scumread him oh well". Again, he has nothing to contribute to it and his whole approach is basically just flaccid.

I'm going to counter your own accusation and say that it some of your points look reachy, like you're trying to bolster your case so you can justify putting me in your scumreads. You also have posts of mine that you state you like, yet you put me in your bottom tier, below people you seem to have nothing good to say about, like S&W, SlySly and SQ. That alone could be excused by you feeling stronger about what you're scumreading me for, but as I've noted, your more detailed reasoning is weak and reachy, only leaving behind posts that you call hedgy or useless.

This is a good post.

I am not absolutely convinced it is a Leonshade-is-town post.

But this is a really good post and a really good point and while I'm not convinced it's Leonshade as town. Yes I actually do overall think it is in fact Leonshade as town.

????????
How is it a good post OR a good point? He ignored the substance of what I've said, he's dismissed my arguments as "weak and reachy" even though they're NOT, and it's basically a "nuh uh" sort of response substantively, but completely devoid of the villagery pissiness that I'd actually expect from someone who feels like someone is being unfair to them about a read.

I won't go into this to extent that I did the above one but the tone is scum!smith. The emphasis feels wrong and it reads to me like he is trying to give off the very same villagery pissiness that he thinks should be townread. I'm not convinced this post has any purpose except to try to give off that vibe. He never actually addressed those points from Leonshade (1378 was the response to Leonshade, at the bottom of the post) or even really tried to reason them out or contest them (and I firmly believe that town!smith would have).

[nancy]

I'll also note, for what little it's worth, that the overly townsided structure here made me much more inclined to think in biochem that it was just 6 town PRs vs 3 scum ones. Oops.

*hugs*

[nancy]

Hi RC,

I am sorry you felt mistreated.

My message I sent to you didn't make it to the dead thread but this is what I asked to passed along right after Titus got lynched: "RC sorry for misreading you. I wish you had talked with me instead of shutting me out and treating my vote and me generally like the plague. The most significant part of my scumread on you was the fact that you refused to talk to me. You didn't engage with me once. I just don't get it."

Plotinus didn't tell you not to scumread us, they told you not to be toxic. Please don't lie about that. My read on you this game was not related to any personal reasons. I am going to sleep now but since the game is over we can talk about this in private because it certainly seems to have become personal after the fact.

[nancy]

I had zero vendetta against nancy.

RC you are tunneled on us the entire game in dead thread. I don't know how to explain that except vendetta.

[nancy]

I didn't read the contents but what I'm assuming is there doesn't make them town.

If she did that to me as scum then she really does not care about me at all. If she's willing to go that far for a scum win she can have it, and lose me.

Jae someone can be scum and legitimately upset at you.

This reads like fanning the flames to me. I'm sorry if that's not how it was intended, but that's how it reads to me and I believe that is how it read to Plotinus at the time when they made their pedit too.

[nancy]

I wanted to see town lose, or at least for you to have to spend long enough in the game that you would have some sort of introspection of how much damage that your rush to judgement on my slot and reads did to the game in the long run.

I didn't rush to a judgement, RC. I scumread you for some posts and I voted you and responded negatively to your toxicity in a way that may have made it seem like I was far more sure in my read than I was, but I afterwards tried again to talk to you and you ignored me. I never seriously pushed you. My read on Titus was 95% Titus and 5% you.

[nancy]

How else should I have dealt with that?

I think you should have let it be and talked to them later when emotions were not running high.

[nancy]

I really want this to be a perfect victory because I've never had a perfect victory before and it would feel pretty good to have my first large after Civ be one for personal reasons that should be pretty obvious.

sorry nancy no perfect win for you

We nearly got it!

[nancy]

Yeah I am sorry about that Titus. There were signs that I was conf!biased on the read and I saw them but I didn't pick them up and I should have. You shouldn't have been lynched. I'm sad about it because I remember our first newbie game and I read you so well and you read me so well and we were just in thread mason buds and it was so nice. And this game I didn't recognize you at all and I lynched you and it sucks.

But at least we won anyway.

[nancy]

I don't think you should townread people for emotions. I mistakenly townread FA for her emotion until Plotinus told me about her meta, after which point the slot promptly sank to the very bottom of my reads. And I don't think you intentionally incited personal conflict in this game. Where there was toxicity I don't think it arose out of you intentionally wanting to make the game toxic. But I do think it was there. Maybe I have to go back and read it all again with the knowledge that you're town and FA was scum to see if I feel differently about it. All I know is how I felt at the time and that's what I've told you here.

[nancy]

Anyway, I'm sorry this game wasn't fun for you RC. I'll talk to you tomorrow. I'm going to sleep now.

[nancy]

Subject: The Realm of Darkness

Also why does mastina think she is night kill worthy?

I didn't. That was bait, attempting to make myself more appealing as a nightkill. I was trying to sell to the scum the idea of, "I'm valuable to the town", so that they'd waste a kill on me rather than other members of the townbloc.

Same thing I was trying to do with all the "hey guys we're head of townbloc"
Didn't work though lol

[nancy]

I think you just wanted to see RC as toxic to justify your read. He took care in his push fmpov and I felt it was incredibly unfair that you kept shitting over him all game.

I'm sorry you think that.
Where did I shit on him all game?

[nancy]

I think you could be mistaking posts from Plotinus head as coming from me.

[nancy]

I definitely wasn't interested in engaging with RC's content after the replace out, though. There was too much negativity and mess there and I didn't want to read or think about any of it again.

[nancy]

Yeah, that's fair. I'm sorry for what happened and the way that RC was treated this game. It definitely shouldn't have played out that way and it wasn't RC's fault for FA becoming toxic. I think it could be the case that I'm so used to RC deathtunneling people and being a little abrasive that when FA started reacting the way she did my gut reaction was that was RC was doing was gross when really what FA was doing was gross. Then when RC reacted the way he did to my vote it just acted to confirm that view of things. I'm glad we managed to make it a fun game in spite of all that happening early on. It's too bad RC didn't get to participate it that part of it.

[nancy]

Holy shit I was about to quote from hood and realized that would get me modkilled

Oh. my. god.

If you told me you had some secret neighborhood I'd totally buy it because this is the sort of interaction I'd expect from lolneighborhoodz.

I WAS TALKING TO YOUR HYDRA ABOUT THIS.

YOU CHEEKY LITTLE FUCKS I WAS RIGHT.

(Okay so I was wrong about the members butstill...details.)

They are the first of the townbloc people would suspect if they began to suspect the townbloc.

We really aren't.

[nancy]

(On top of which Creature had an inno on us )

[nancy]

Funnily enough Creature was the only other player who KNEW that I was in a neighborhood and yet it was him I was ignoring when he was asking me if I'd talked to Imperium about what I needed to

[nancy]

Congrats Anti! Yeah I never used Mushu tbh tho my role this game was legit the best I've ever had hands-down, Dumbo was awesome, totally unlimited MP was just beautiful. Tinkerbell was totally essentially to me, I could have never passed the game without her.

[nancy]

Also sorry TTH I don't remember Cavern of Remembrances well enough to give you any help there.

Maybe I should revisit it and refresh my memory.

[nancy]

Just feel like he never did near as much damage as keyblades really

Like it'd take a full element charge to kill off a few guys that I could take out in a couple thundagas

With Dumbo in larger fights you can literally just spam thundaga and completely flatten everything and never run out of MP; Mushu would have almost zero comparable effect in the same situation

[nancy]

xD

[nancy]

Lol now I know why I don't remember Cavern of Remembrances TTH... I never did it

Didn't have FM lol

[nancy]

I remember there's like a really similar thing that isn't in FM! I thought it was that

The one that's the normal versions not the data versions

[nancy]

Isn't that game alted?

[nancy]

Probably shouldn't be asking people if they pre-inned if it's an alted game

[nancy]

Oh good point I dunno; I've only experienced it on other sites where signups are private

[nancy]

I don't actually own a console anymore; can't play it when it does come out

[nancy]

My housemate owns a console actually lmao

[nancy]

Being an adult does suck yes

[nancy]

waaaaaaaaaaat did they do to goofy

that's not goofy

[nancy]

oh nvm it's world-specific design

[nancy]

I haven't Toy Story 3 but that's it!

[nancy]

* haven't seen