Night and Day Mafia (Game Over)

[79 CE]

Your scumread of texcat is her doing nothing.

can you do like, a pbp or something in showing me the posts that just mean absolutely nothing because I can do the same and actually make the magic happen.

To clarify, I feel like texcat is kinda town

Please explain because texact has done literally nothing.

Fake post: slightly below null
Does nothing in thread: scumread

And I know that she *is* capable of doing things because as soon as she got cased she started making posts to discredit the push she just doesn't care to do anything that is actually ~town~.

[79 CE]

Aronis claimed Masons with me. I can confirm that my role fragment supports this, but I was not told what my role was or who I was linked with. Since Aronis is in the dark, he would then have to be mafia in order to make that claim.

Oh they did claim masons. Uhh lol now I have to find the post where Aronis claimed it...

[79 CE]

well me and rauth are masons so that makes sense.
I guess I'll give you a second chance if you re-evaluate now titus

[79 CE]

So he and Rauth claim linked. So they either a) have a pt or b) are linked in some other way. Wouldn't it be best to be sure. We can swap people.

Say what is your bulba read?

Do you think a scum mason is likely in a game themed as Night and Day with the way PTs work? Because it doesn't feel like much of a stretch to me honestly but eh, setup spec is always iffy. Do you have an explanation for how Aronis would've guessed that Rauth was his mason bud? Bulba is null-ish atm.

pedit lmao

[79 CE]

<3 you bae.

UNVOTE:

I'll unvote until Aronis has time to offer some kind of explanation.

[79 CE]

I AM TALKING IN ALL CAPS BECAUSE I AM FRUSTRATED AT HOW SLOW THINGS ARE RIGHT NOW AND I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S ON MY END OR IF MAFIASCUM IS LAGGING FOR EVERYONE

Just you I think sweetheart. <3

[79 CE]

I have 4 lovers so I'm pretty well town-linked.

[79 CE]

Scum masons are a thing.

[79 CE]

<3<3
<3<3<3-*
<3<3<3-*
<3<3<3-*
<3<3<3-*
<3<3

(Happy loveday!)

[79 CE]

I AM TALKING IN ALL CAPS BECAUSE I AM FRUSTRATED AT HOW SLOW THINGS ARE RIGHT NOW AND I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S ON MY END OR IF MAFIASCUM IS LAGGING FOR EVERYONE

I also was laggy AF for a bit there, around this time.

It's just you and me, babe! <3

[79 CE]

(Every day is our loveday :3)

[79 CE]

2110 WAS ARI

[79 CE]

The last post lagged soooo hard holy shit. Def not just you Mastina!

- Ari

[79 CE]

2110 WAS ARI

It was! I tried to sign and it lagged harder lol

- Ari

[79 CE]

Vote: Snarky

Sorry but your posts read like scum AtE and your townread on me feels gross.

[79 CE]

texcat's insistence on Aronis having scumslipped is exactly what I'd expect from newb!scum who was unable to produce pro-town content in thread but somehow the tone and manner in which she is pushing it feels like it comes from town. I don't entirely disagree with her that Aronis is scum but it's probably not for the slip so much as his extended bout of lurking the moment he came under pressure and general inability to produce any significantly pro-town content throughout the entirety of his 197 posts. I'm unable to find a single instance of him having sorted another slot.

I feel like DrCirno is approaching the thread in a pro-scum way but I don't know how to articulate that read to any greater extent than that and it's not something I'd put a great deal of faith in especially considering what his take on this game must be regardless of alignment. BTD is tentatively town by tone, there's something about slimy about him when he's scum that I'm not feeling here.

EddieFenix is a pretty decent shot as scum just by the lack of any sign that he cares about town in this game.

That's all I've got because it took everything out of me just to read up on thread in the state I'm in. I'm scumreading both lynches today which is really weird, that can't be right...

{Bran, A2, Math, Quantum, Rauth}
{Gin, Titus, texcat, Creature, dramonic, BTD6_maker}
{Vedith, Bulbazak}
{EddieFenix}
{Snarky, DrCirno, Aronis}

[79 CE]

Vote: Aronis

My scumreads and reads in general are terrible this game soooo let's just lynch the one that doesn't give a shit and does nothing.

[79 CE]

Heroic deadline flashwagon let's goooooooooo

VOTE: Bulba

[79 CE]

JAEREED AND NANCY ARE MY CHERRY PIES.

PLS EAT ME

[79 CE]

Eddie is also scum and that would be a viable compromise since I don't think there's a soul that has dreamed of townreading Eddie this game.

Holy mother lord but mastina you are taking your time to snag this pagetop.

<<< I was spending time with Jae. >>>

[79 CE]

Oh my god Aronis.

[79 CE]

Snarky's play and especially AtE is admittedly astonishingly terrible but you just don't lynch the claimed cop day 1.

[79 CE]

Okay this will probably get more sheeps

VOTE: Eddie

@Math Alisae Ginngie Titus sheep me please

[79 CE]

Also Titus is 100% town we are never lynching her.

pedit huehuehuehue

[79 CE]

scumclaim

[79 CE]

I think eddie is Town and we should flashwagon Texcat if we don't lynch scumclaiming Snarky.

I overrule your thoughts and command you to sheep me!

[79 CE]

VOTE EDDIEFENIX

[79 CE]

Can we lynch MB?

I would lynch you before I lynched them.

[79 CE]

Math if Snarky is town scum will kill him tonight. Lynching him is absurd. If he's scum we can lynch him tomorrow.

pedit why is Eddie terrible...?

[79 CE]

Holy fuck QR might actually be scum

[79 CE]

Then he has a result to leave us with and we get more info from the wagon besides.

pedit texcat is town

pedit because your reads are bad and vote is terrible

pedit fuck that I'm lynching Snarky before I let dramonic go through

[79 CE]

Never lynch: Titus, Math, Ginngie, texcat, dramonic

[79 CE]

Also Bran never lynch Bran

Nor Rauth

[79 CE]

What has dramonic done?

Nothing I just like him.

[79 CE]

texcat isn't scum at all

[79 CE]

Smart play is to let Snarky have a night phase to get a result. If he doesn't die or do anything tomorrow to redeem himself then we lynch him tomorrow, but lynching him today is just bad play because he's been scummy but not obscenely scummy. I don't townread him though so I will lynch him over people I think are town.

pedit I'm sad too but why are you sad?

[79 CE]

Explain how rolefishing is townie?

Who rolefished

[79 CE]

Also nancy I'm sad

Shit I'm sorry Aslan

Never lynch Aslan either. Never ever.

[79 CE]

If there's one scum in my never lynch list then it's dramonic but there's not! dramonic is 70% town I just never want to lynch him because I like him, all the others are 100% town.

[79 CE]

Where

Quote it?

[79 CE]

That's not a rolefish Mathy

[79 CE]

Yay a Titus

[79 CE]

why Eddie over dramonic
Eddie at least has content at all

dramonic is sorting people, Eddie is not.

[79 CE]

Everyone in the dark. Give a list of who you think are town and scum in the following list:

Mathblade
Titus
Ginngie
Creature
QuantumRadius
BTD6_maker
Frosted Kelvin Bran

Don't find this exercise useful. Town can and does have bad reads.

{Titus, Bran, A2, Math, texcat}
{Vedith, Creature, dramonic, BTD6_maker, Rauth}
{Aronis}
{Quantum, DrCirno, Gin}
{Bulbazak}

But I was only intending to post to notify that my head is V/LA. Ari will be doing any/all posting for a while.

[79 CE]

So, I've been told I have to buck up and read this game a bit better.

Anyone have suggestions on where to start?
The first bit of the game Is really fluffy.

[79 CE]

Tell your other head to get in here.

Way to motivate a guy to post

Just because someone can post occasionally doesn't mean they're not V/LA. You should respect this.

[79 CE]

Screw off Bulba. I just lost the person who has been closest to me in all my life. My life is a fucking hell right now. I gave you as much as I had the ability to and it was only out of my sense of obligation to Ari and mastina that I gave anything at all. I'll do everything I can to get over my fucking grief to uphold my responsibility here as soon as I can and fuck you for insinuating I would use RL to avoid playing.

[79 CE]

This is Ari checking in!
I'll get a look at this, I swear.

Sorry to all, but thanks for bearing with me!

[79 CE]

I am back. Hello.

[79 CE]

I'm conflicted on BTD. There's all the reasons given why he's probably scum, and he's not scumhunting or anything. But that whole tracker result thing sounds too stupid to make up, and part of me thinks that's town.

Hot take: this is scum who knows BTD is town and is townreading BTD despite the apparent guilty.
(I'm presuming there was a tracker guilty on BTD because I haven't actually read.)

[79 CE]

So what about, he's a scum tracker, and botched his result?

Your indecision here doesn't read genuine to me Gin baby. It reads like scum going through the motions of appearing unsure. I also know that scum!Gin loves to work with setup spec and claims as scum and you would be loving the chance to work around stuff like this. Tell me how I'm wrong please?

[79 CE]

There was no guilty.
That was just a gambit Titus did.

Well that's awful.

[79 CE]

That is so far from the actual truth that it sounds like it came from Trump's PR.

You townread Bulba? I was operating under the assumption that there was a guilty and I know scum love to townread guilties. I see a post and call what I see.

[79 CE]

Think whatever you like of it.
Light knows they have a strongman or something in there so thats why Titus faked a rolecop guilty.

No, I mean, awful that we don't have a guilty.

[79 CE]

This is Ari checking in!
I'll get a look at this, I swear.

Sorry to all, but thanks for bearing with me!

Ari didn't make any posts :/

[79 CE]

yupp

Haven't read a single word

by you

that explains

a single read

you might want to get on that <3

~I'm not the one trying to peddle my crap reaaaads~

Also why you choose to discredit bulba instead of talk things out would be nice, seems you ignored that question

Talking with Bulb is a waste of time. I'll say it here like I said in the dark thread: If you want me to care (I think I said listen) about what you have to say, maybe don't build bs meta cases that gets town lynched. His credibility is completely shot to me, his

conftown

list is abysmal, and when called out on it his sole reaction is "EXPLAIN WHY THESE PEOPLE ARE

SCUM

"
This just in: there is no scale between conftown and scum.
Yeah no, fuck that.

Dramonic, your cooperation would help. Also, I seem to remember that you

did

provide an explanation for what you said:
By rolling dice and saying that the two people who got rolled (Which happened to be me and Snarky) were scum.

Actually those were the town in that list, not the scum in that lost.
Hey, so far I was right on the initial snarky roll, that's 1 me 0 bulb

Bulba, on the other hand, had sufficiently explained the reasons for his town-reads in thread.

So forgive me when I say that yes, you are discrediting Bulbazak.

I am discrediting Bulb indeed. You'll notice I've done that to Titus and Math as well so far and they're not crying a river.
Oh shit, they must be my scumbuddies!~

<<< Removing extra quote tag. >>>

dramonic, I don't think the concerns being expressed here are backed up with a great level of thought. The reasons for distrusting Bulba look fairly superficial; he powerlynched a townie with a bad case, his reads are bad and don't make sense, he responds in a simple way to a callout. These aren't things that seem to have been thought through by you; they feel like excuses rather than reasoning that you're compelled by to take the stance that you're taking here. I don't think you're wrong that Bulba's push on Eddie was bad; but what about it was bad and why does that mean that you're not interesting in engaging with Bulba anymore? Town can make bad lynches yet have good reads otherwise. I don't think that the entirety of his reads are going to be based on meta if he's town.

I'm a little concerned about your tone here because it feels a little to me like you're trying to give your stance more emphasis than it has by virtue of the strength of reasoning supporting it. I think your objection to Bulba asking you why you thought his townreads were scum isn't a very reasonable one; I think Bulba wanting to know why you disagree with his reads is a pretty understandable concern if he's town and I'm not sure why that's something that makes you think engaging with him is a waste of time. If you aren't trying to push reads of your own and you aren't going to talk about your reads with your townreads, I'm a little confused why you're taking issue with other people's reads at the same time. I'd expect that if you were concerned enough about how different slots were being read to call people out for having what you feel are bad reads, you would also be concerned enough to bother explaining what your own reads were and how you got there.

[79 CE]

@CE: I still want to know why you think scum would move Kelvin in the light because he was obviously town.

I'm assuming that there are multiple scum in the Light PT and I'm assuming that the scum that are there are outnumbered by town. I think that it's probably likely that town wanted to bring an obvtown slot over to the Light PT and I think that on account of that the scum that are in that PT would not be inclined to heavily oppose it out of desire to avoid being scumread; that seems like a reasonable albeit definitely weak thing to scumread someone for. I think that scum's strategy here is probably to get some sort of majority in Light PT so they can control the flow of the game much easier through night actions and through selecting the composition they want in the Light PT, but I don't think that strategy involves heavily opposing what I imagine would be pretty popular choices by town to bring over the Light PT at this stage; I don't think it's likely they're in the position right now to be taking control of things so the most probable scenario here for me is that scum are going to want to blend in and not force the issue and that involves letting obvtown slots like Bran into the PT. I think at this stage in the game the choice to send Bran to the Light PT is essentially null. Maybe Bran isn't town; he's not locktown for me even though I've indicated as much previously. (I'm not interested in playing the lazy way I was playing early. You have me here and I'm being serious about my reads.)

[79 CE]

Not at all. I'm saying that if the majority is town and townreading Bran then the majority would not have been opposed to having him over. I think that Bran was the most widely townread slot day 1 and that makes him the likeliest candidate for town to choose to go over. I think that if the majority of Light PT is town then the vote is under town control - scum can oppose it if they want but ultimately they're going to be overruled so the smarter play for them is probably to go along with in order to not be scumread for opposing what would seem to be a pretty transparently pro-town choice.

[79 CE]

VOTE: QR

[79 CE]

Wasn't aware the mafia controlled the vote; I was under the impression there was a public vote taken and majority won. That explains our miscommunication Bulba.

[79 CE]

Did Rautherdir claim?

[79 CE]

@CE: I still want to know why you think scum would move Kelvin in the light because he was obviously town.

@nancy Answer this please. And how you weren't aware?

I don't know anymore. I was also mildly scumreading Cirno so that switch confuses me as well. It's possible that mafia would switch scumread members of the Light PT to the Dark PT if they had roles that weren't useful? This feels extremely WIFOM-y and I'm not sure how to parse it, honestly. I wasn't aware because I hadn't read the OP thoroughly enough.

[79 CE]

*glares* Stop changing the subject.

I didn't see your question until I had posted.

[79 CE]

btw I'm a jailkeeper, claimed that in the light and jailed our homeboy Snarky, was the one that came up with there being a strongman

Why did you out in the Light? Did you out before or after the kill happened?

[79 CE]

WE had three protectives claim to target Snarky. By tricking people we could see who posted already knowing the strongman rolecop guilty was a fake. The more someone posted like they believed us, the more likely they were to be town. It's not a lock solid case though. So we know scum have a strongman in light (or both Ginngie and Creature are scum and it's an RB but this is farfetched). Basically, it's a knows too much tell. It has to be someone here in light when N1 started as scum cannot use powers in Dark.

VOTE: Kelvin Hydra

Be back Sunday.

What's Creature's relevance to this?

[79 CE]

Basically what happened is:

I started Dawn saying there was scum because my role, it was a strongman
then we argued a bit
then Titus claimed she should have stopped the kill or there was a strongman/roleblock on her.
I jailkept Snarky so we couldn't both be roleblocked, ergo strongman.

or Titus is scum trying to gain a towncred gambit.

I'm sorry Titus is a protective?

[79 CE]

Mastina, please modkill/force replace 79 CE for intentionally hydra-slipping AND not quoting it

Fuck you!
I am well aware that I am due for a prod but my next day off is not until Thursday, and I intend to spend most of that day on this game.

I made an Ego post as is allowed in the ruleset and you are actually being ridiculous and possibly scummy if you actually want us modkilled for this!
I have had a scumlean on you most of the game and this solidifies my thoughts!

So how about we lynch the fucking obvscum Aronis this day, eh?

Yours truly,
Ari.
I just got ninja'd by myself. What is life!?

[79 CE]

I get that, and I didn't mean to sound insensitive. But that's essentially how the entirety of n1 went, and it's driving me bonkers. So for her to come in, drop a scumread on me, then peace out, when I've been trying to sync up with her all night, I end up being a little frustrated.

I get your frustration here; I would have made time for you regardless of my read on you if I was able to. I'm sorry that I wasn't able to be there. My scumread on you is very quickly fading; I was mildly scumreading you by tone but I felt there was a chance I was just unfamiliar with your playstyle and was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt for a day and go along with your Eddie case even though it didn't feel like a legitimate case to me. When Eddie flipped town my reasons for giving you the benefit of the doubt weren't there anymore.

[79 CE]

Ari I think Aronis is kinda town sry man

Thart's fine. I'm not relevant and can't talk to things as such. He has rubbed me the wrong wayt all game tho!

[79 CE]

That is a horribly articulated read, sorry.

[79 CE]

Mastina, please modkill/force replace 79 CE for intentionally hydra-slipping AND not quoting it

Fuck you!
I am well aware that I am due for a prod but my next day off is not until Thursday, and I intend to spend most of that day on this game.

I made an Ego post as is allowed in the ruleset and you are actually being ridiculous and possibly scummy if you actually want us modkilled for this!
I have had a scumlean on you most of the game and this solidifies my thoughts!

So how about we lynch the fucking obvscum Aronis this day, eh?

Yours truly,
Ari.
I just got ninja'd by myself. What is life!?

This isn't an Ari post and don't fake Ari posts again. If he isn't going to post, let that be final.

This was actually me tho Gin!

I'm drunk, so that may explain the misread.

[79 CE]

I meant to say "per the ruleset" if that changes anything.

[79 CE]

Saying fuck you is not an Ari thing to do

Lmao!
I know, but, like, he called for a modkill!
What am I supposed to say!?

[79 CE]

lmao idk man, I need a minute >_>

That's cool!

Sorry I was too abrasive for your liking

[79 CE]

I'm never going to remember to post here if I don't ego post...

Doesn't seem we picked this up.

[79 CE]

Gin I have no ability to fake Ari posting.

[79 CE]

Ari go over reads with me?

[79 CE]

I've kind of reset since I came back from V/LA.

[79 CE]

Did Rautherdir claim?

I'd like this question answered please.

[79 CE]

Gin I'm sorry for scumreading you for a lot of this game. My reads have been unstable and chaotic along with my play because of my mindset in this game but that's changed at this point; I'm making a conscious decision not to half ass games anymore even if they aren't particularly meaningful to me for any reason like the ability to be in a masonry with Imperium. I'm also trying to make some adjustments in my play because I think I get sucked into narrative traps in a bad way and my play suffers for it. I am townreading you but I'm not finding the words to explain why and I think until I can find the words it's probably better that I don't try to force them because if I do it won't truly represent what I'm feeling and will probably come across as fake.

[79 CE]

(RC's alignment is drunk.)

[79 CE]

When was RC in this game?

<<< RadiantCowbells replaces DrCirno effective immediately. >>>

Oh.

Killing a townread any% the speedrun

Aslan you're completely right that this comes across as somewhat fake; I don't think that it necessarily is, I don't think that scum has any significant motivation to act cluelessly in this way and I think that town makes those two posts just as often as scum does. I don't think that there's any meaningful way to read alignment off this; it looks very null.

Ours.

[79 CE]

I'm aware that it happens, and it does look fake, but I don't know how to read Vedith tonally and I think tone aside it's weakly indicative at best and something that you would want to look back on if Vedith were to flip scum rather than base a scumread on. Vedith's reaction is what looks worse to me, but again, I don't know Vedith's play well enough to give a solid take there.

[79 CE]

It starts with an F and ends with uck all nothing right?

Don't remember; I've forgotten most of what happened this game and my reads are pretty much reset as a result. I'm not townreading Vedith.

[79 CE]

Vedith I went through your ISO and I'm not finding any reasoning on why Aronis is scum. Your vote on him comes very soon after replacing in and there's no progression to your read there at all; you've been tunneled on him ever since but there's nothing supporting your tunnel. You answer BTD's question about your read in 930 by telling him to read your ISO, but there's nothing in your ISO. Why you scumreading Aronis? What other reads do you have?

[79 CE]

No, it's not a joke.

[79 CE]

Are you on the right game? I never repalced in.

Very soon after the game began, then; even worse.

[79 CE]

These are the only two posts I'm seeing:

Not only did Aronis post in red (obviously on the mind due to seeing red on their role pm) but also called the other Scum read town and tried to say that my reads won't be worth reading just because I voiced my opinion on the opening post.

Vedith is:
A. Really Bad at Mafia
B. Scum
haven't figured out which yet.

And then I don't have great vibes about 79 CE? I'm not super convinced they're scum yet, but I'd probably feel more comfortable lynching them over Vedith atm

That s a terrible post and dodges the question with a passive read to you know, be able to sit on the fence.

The reasoning here is extremely weak and nowhere close to what I would expect to support the kind scumread you've displayed on Aronis.

[79 CE]

Vedith I'm not interested in fooling around. If you have anything to support your Aronis tunnel you need to show it and not be coy.

[79 CE]

I have read your ISO. I see only two posts that contain any reasoning, both very early in the game. There is the nonsense of the fake claim, there is buddying Titus. Your ISO is almost entirely empty of reasoning of any kind.

[79 CE]

@Aslan I think BTD is probably town; why are you scumreading the slot?

[79 CE]

Vedith someone using red writing is not a scum tell. The second-half mentions of Aronis are all to do with the claim.

[79 CE]

Vedith what if I were to tell you that using two commas in your sentence just there is a scum tell for me and therefore I am scumreading you and am going to tunnel you for the remainder of the game?

[79 CE]

Imagine that I do.

[79 CE]

Why is my read wrong? You dropped a scumtell.

[79 CE]

I think your red-text scumtell is hot garbage and any competent mafia player will tell you the same. Your tunnel is equally hot garbage as long as that's your justification for it and your tunnel compromises the majority of your ISO, which makes the majority of your content this game hot garbage. I'm looking for a reason to townread you and all I see is hot garbage.

[79 CE]

Just to be clear, I'm not calling you incompetent; the assumption that any competent mafia player will you that your scumtell is bad means that you are not part of the group "any competent mafia player" is not an accurate one. I think if you are town you have an extremely mistaken scumtell that you have managed to somehow find valid; it does not necessarily reflect your ability as a player, it only reflects that you are stuck with a very bad piece of information that from outside perspective would not require much to see how mistaken it is because of how obviously bad that information is. I think you need to realize that your scumtell is not valid. The color of text that a player uses is not indicative of their alignment.

pedit when I joined in?

[79 CE]

Vedith please explain to me why you think using red text is a scumtell and where you got this idea from?

[79 CE]

Where have you seen a player who uses red text flip scum?

[79 CE]

Creature, mind sharing your reads? I only have a little time before I sleep.

[79 CE]

Why is Aronis town?

I don't have a functional read on Aronis after resetting. I'm not trying to convince you he's town, I'm trying to get a read on you.

[79 CE]

QuantumRadius town too

Why on this?

[79 CE]

How much does scum!Titus fakeclaim?

I'm not sure.

FKB and DrCirno are likely both scum that switched between themselves.

That was my thought too, tentatively.

What do you think about Vedith?

I think it's possible that he's town but I'm certainly not townreading him and I'm going to need to do more work on the read to get any kind of a confident take on the slot. His scumtell, while pretty garbage, is something he does seem to pretty stubbornly believe in and I think the mistaken psychology that he's using as a basis for it is something I can find understandable even if I don't find it valid or agree with it at all.

[79 CE]

idk how to explain, you weren't even active when QuantumRadius was obvtowning.

I remember having QR as a townread; where do you feel that they were obvtowning?

[79 CE]

Then if you don't know, don't tell me that my read is wrong. If you can argue why it's wrong, then we can discuss further.
Right now, you are posting just to post.

Not telling you your read is wrong; telling you the reasoning for your read is bad and overall severely, severely lacking. Your ISO consists for the most part of a very bad tunnel that seems to have little real basis according to any form of scumhunting that I recognize.

[79 CE]

How confident are you in the read?

[79 CE]

Alright, I'll go over the slot again when I have the time and see if I can get on the same page as you there.

VOTE: MathBlade

[79 CE]

Also, I don't see scum!QR claiming he/she got results to disprove a mass roleblocker.

That's a good point.

[79 CE]

I remember townreading them in large part because I didn't see the angle of scum just constantly complaining about people conf!biasing and playing poorly and about how useless day 1 was, ultimately pretty crap reasons for a townread but I didn't feel they were scummy otherwise so I didn't feel too questionable about it. There was a decent amount of analysis from the slot as far as I remember; nothing really from the slot day 2 that I've seen, Narna wasn't noticeable. I'll need to go over the slot again tomorrow when I have more energy and time.

[79 CE]

I'm getting mixed signals to what your onjective to this conversation is?
Either I'm tunneling him and have nothing to support it, or I have a read that isn't confirmed wrong, you just don't like the reasoning to it?

If you don't see Aronis as town, and in your opinion my read could be spot on here, then what is the issue with me scum reading Aronis?

If you think I'm scum for it, then vote me and move on, because I'm not interested in your read on me.

My issue isn't with your read, it's with the lack of basis for your read. I'm not concerned with the accuracy or inaccuracy of the read so much as how you arrived at it and the work you did to get the read. I don't think you're scum right now and I have no interest in pushing you at this time. It's fine if you don't care about me read on you; I do care about my read on you.

[79 CE]

Overtired, taking a nap. Thanks Creature I'll talk to you again later.

[79 CE]

I've voted MathBlade because I don't think their reaction to BTD's claim was a good one; I'll go into my read there more when I'm awake again and have time on my plate.

[79 CE]

My problem is that there's no evolution to the read, and he's just been sitting on it and doing nothing.

Completely agree; that's my issue with it as well.

I'm going to be somewhat busy with mastina, but I'd like to go over reads with you. I'm available now, let's talk.

[79 CE]

I replaced into a 140 page game and got trolled, was told my contributions were invalid because my slot was scummy, and repeatedly discredited by slots that I expected would take me seriously.

That's not at all fun for me or what I replaced in here to do. If my predecessor was so scummy as to invalidate any sort of attempting to treat me like a player then lynch me. otherwise change your tac.

RC I'm sorry if you felt that you were trolled here; I didn't personally get the impression that people trolled you but if you mean Titus, if you think she is scum then I'm sure that you can probably just write that off as behavior serving her wincon? I respect your ability to read Titus. I don't agree with your read there right now and I'm not townreading you strongly enough to simply follow you at this point against my own read. I hope you can respect that position as not being a slight against you; it isn't.

[79 CE]

I'm exclusively referring to Ginn.

And at the very least you can help me get a clearer picture.

I think you may have misread Gin's intentions. I didn't get the sense that they meant to troll you, if you felt that's what she was doing I can understand that you'd be upset by it. I know that you two don't get along, if you're unable to talk with each other that's fine.

What would you like me to help you a clearer picture of?

I think that with the result we have on the board we should absolutely lynch between MathBlade and BTD today.

[79 CE]

Has your Gin read evolved any?

Was this addressed to me? I talked briefly about my read on Gin here. Don't have anything to add on to that at the moment but I'd be willing to talk over any specifics with you if you'd like to do that. I think she's town.

[79 CE]

Titus I think the way that MathBlade was barely responsive to the track result and continued aimlessly talking about mass roleblockers and not really responding to BTD while all that was happening feels like scum!Mathblade. I think that they've overall taken a very reasonable approach to things and I think we both know that's Math's scum meta. If you disagree with this I'd like to hear why.

[79 CE]

@CE: What's your Creature read? I feel like I actually need to break down actions when I have the time, since I think we may be able to PoE this. Creature is key in that regard, and I'd like your thoughts there.

I think he's extremely town. How familiar are you with Creature meta? He's well beyond his scum range here.

[79 CE]

Why are you scumreading QR Gin?

[79 CE]

Titus I'd like a response to this please.

Titus I think the way that MathBlade was barely responsive to the track result and continued aimlessly talking about mass roleblockers and not really responding to BTD while all that was happening feels like scum!Mathblade. I think that they've overall taken a very reasonable approach to things and I think we both know that's Math's scum meta. If you disagree with this I'd like to hear why.

[79 CE]

You're not scumreading dramonic, Gin?

[79 CE]

Rauth, why are you scumreading Creature?

[79 CE]

Please don't do this.

[79 CE]

I agree that Math would claim Ascetic as scum more often than not; I don't feel confident enough saying that they would always claim it or that they would absolutely claim it in this setup. It's at least possible that they may not have claimed out of fear of a policy lynch; I think that's something that Math is afraid of more than most other players. My read on Math isn't dependent on the claim or the result.

[79 CE]

nancy, can you walk me through your scumread on mathblade?

A few minutes away from doing things with mastina and JaeReed so I don't have time, but I believe you're familiar enough with their meta to get a decent read on them? There's none of the head-beating-against-wall MathBlade here. I think it's beyond the point by now where I can say they're making significant strides in their towngame to become more cooperative and reasonable in their engagements. Their interactions with the result from BTD haven't been good and their response to my scumread wasn't good either.

[79 CE]

That's kind of my issue. I feel like if you were town you would've made this a 1v1 and been screaming to high heavens for BTD's head. Why haven't you?

[79 CE]

@Bulba I haven't sorted the majority of the slots on the board since coming off V/LA. My reads are largely reset but I'm pretty confident Creature, Gin and A2 are town. If you have a solid take on any of Aronis, BTD, texcat, Narna or Rauth I'd like to hear it. I'll be going over my reads there myself when I have time. We have 14 days, I feel pretty good about spending the next 10 days to lock down a decent PoE.

[79 CE]

Add QR to that second list.

[79 CE]

Heading off.

[79 CE]

Back; caught up. Bulba, talk?

[79 CE]

Nosferatu how much of the game have you read?

[79 CE]

Since your replace in, Nos?

Bulba I'd like to lock down a read on QR, go over your take on the slot with me?

[79 CE]

I am heavily overgamed off-site; I'm not in the position to be strong presence here at the moment with analysis but I'd welcome fielding anyone's read on QR for review.

[79 CE]

What I'm getting at, is I think QR had it easy as scum going with whatever and found some reads that worked, but isn't able to actually adjust by switching to other people to scum read that easily given new information.

Examples of this?

[79 CE]

That might be the case with Quantum. Or it just might be overall town apathy. Results have kinda locked us into a certain course, and that's not giving him a lot of room to maneuver and scumhunt in the way he wants.

Where in particular are you getting this feeling from him? I agree that he's been less of an emotional presence today; unsure what that means about his alignment at this stage.

The problem with that Gin is the amount of meat behind his reads. Yeah, there was a lot of pointless PbPA, but he also had some thought processes that I really can't see scum faking. He could have put in less effort by apeing other players' cases, like mine on Titus, instead of doing his own thing.

Which thought proccesses in particular are you seeing here as being unfakeable? A lot of the analysis in his early Titus pbpa felt pretty basic and I'm not sure completely supported the scumread that QR expressed at the time; I don't feel that there's been a significant reevaluation of Titus from the slot since but I'm not convinced that's scum indicative in this case. I'm not sure that effort is going to be a valid reason to townread the slot; if he's showing signs of original thinking that he's genuinely invested in then that's a good point for the slot, but I'm not sure I've strongly gotten that sense from him overall. I'd like to see which parts of his iso in particular you feel are most indicative there.

[79 CE]

I just keep replaying in my mind Titus and I being scum reads and then today comes along, QR has treated me like an Innocent child and the only thing I can remember QR doing is hopping on the Titus wagon going "oh hey cool Titus votes are nice"

The progression in 3014->3065->3151 worries me a little but I'm not sure I'm able to parse whether QR as scum would shift his vote so erratically without taking a more careful review of his voting habits and read progressions overall throughout his iso. I want to like that he mentioned to RC in 3390 that he had a pbpa "somewhere" but I think I'd be happier with that coming from him if he'd taken the time to actually link it; I don't think that he displays the kind of investment in being heard there that I'd like to see from him if he's town. I think that softing a result in 3165 in order to help clear up the mess of claims absolutely has some pretty good motivation for doing so if he's town and not at a lot if he's scum.

[79 CE]

Agree that day 2 has been apathetic across the board; not really complaining about the lower activity personally given that when there is activity it seems to be largely noise. I'm fine to wait to hear back from you when you're feeling more motivated to dig into QR's iso; I'm lacking there myself although probably not for the same reason.

To address your final point, I think if QR is scum and RC is town then QR would certainly be more inclined to buddy RC's scumread of Titus if Titus is town; I'm not sure that buddying would necessarily take the form of showing RC his case on Titus (if that's what we're calling it), I think it's probably something that comes from town more often than from scum to want others to read their content and I think that scum are probably a little more inclined to hide behind other player's scumreads and make content that is there but not at the forefront; your point is absolutely a valid one, though, and in this case it may just be QR lacks motivation to the extent that he doesn't even care to iso himself into to be heard; still think there is more scum motivation for not linking it.

Not completely disagreeing with your townread at this point but it's not a read I feel confident in and I'd like that to change.

[79 CE]

RC I think QR's request for reasoning on your read is a pretty understandable one; I'm not sure why that line of inquiry makes you feel that he needs to die?

[79 CE]

Haven't seen anything from MathBlade that makes me doubt my read; if they have town meta to support their claim that their meta is changed they should share it - didn't see anything from our time as hydra to make me believe that this could be their towngame.

[79 CE]

Aslan's argument that they are beating their head against the wall isn't an accurate one; Math is somewhat stubborn regardless of alignment, that isn't the difference between their towngame and scumgame.

[79 CE]

I think QR is probably town. The way they entered with a townread on Titus feels genuine; I don't get the feeling they overplayed that read in the way that they might be tempted to if they were trying to fake read progression; don't think QR is the type of player to fake progression in that way anyway. I don't think that QR shifts their read on Titus because of a townie that no one in particular is listening to as scum; I don't think that they do it in this way if they do - they land on a Titus vote because of largely unexplained reasons and return with the pbpa later; don't get the sense the progression or overall approach to the read is fake. The way they talk about their Titus read here feels pretty unusual if they're scum; don't think QR displays that level of thought and confidence in themselves as scum there, don't think they take the angle of demeaning someone's else's case in order to play up their own in that way; their approach feels genuine there overall. I struggle to see them interacting with Gin in the way they do following that as scum; posts like 1128 and 1148 feel pretty pure and their confidence doesn't come off as faked at all. Don't think the trajectory of the read and those interactions would be easy at all to pull off as scum in that way. The case itself displays a level of thought that feels very town; I can feel the read play out and interact with their other reads naturally throughout the case. Their Titus read overall just feels very pure.

[79 CE]

Haven't seen anything from MathBlade that makes me doubt my read; if they have town meta to support their claim that their meta is changed they should share it - didn't see anything from our time as hydra to make me believe that this could be their towngame.

You mean the hydra I was so busy for a super majority of posts were yours.

You mean every town game since I got my job end of May.

You mean how you say this same meta earlier this game and you called it Town.

You mean how you have no reasoning except how you contradict yourself.

When you actually have a true read it is more "nancy like"

You mentioned that I ought to have a better understanding of how your town meta has changed through our play together as a hydra; I don't believe that I saw significant differences in your play except that you were willing to drop your reads and sheep me when I told you I was sure. Again, if you have games that demonstrate the change, show them to me; you say that you've barely played due to work, yet say that your meta has changed so significantly that your towngame now looks like your scumgame; your argumentation is dissonant. I had a wrong read on you earlier in the game because I wanted to believe you were capable of that change and that desire influenced my read when it shouldn't have; I am no longer able to believe that in spite of my desire to with the increased sample size. I don't believe that you are town and I believe that your continued attempts to discredit my scumread are entirely your MO as scum.

[79 CE]

Gin, I don't think continuing to engage with dramonic is going to be productive; I'd ask that you consider stopping because it is spamming up the thread in an unproductive way and creating noise.

[79 CE]

Aslan, dramonic is a lost cause.

[79 CE]

Nosferatu feels town; not sure the switch is particularly good reasoning for a scumread there.

Gin, were there any other concerns you had with QR?

[79 CE]

Math has resorted to trying to pretend that my scumread isn't valid; I'm comfortable saying they're lockscum to me at this point. Titus, I don't understand your refusal to engage with me on this. I think if you're town you would be a little more concerned and receptive right now.

[79 CE]

Rauth, I'd like to hear about your reads and how they've progressed over the course of the game, not just about those in the Light PT; your play today seems to have revolved around Titus' gambit and BTD's result and I'd like to hear what you have to say about some of the content that's been produced today from a non-mechanical perspective in particular.

[79 CE]

Math has resorted to trying to pretend that my scumread isn't valid; I'm comfortable saying they're lockscum to me at this point. Titus, I don't understand your refusal to engage with me on this. I think if you're town you should be a little more concerned and receptive right now.

Fixed.

[79 CE]

Nosferatu doesn't feel town lol

What doesn't feel town to you Creature?

[79 CE]

@Creature what about Nos' play reminds you of 203? Do you have any other experience with Nos? Do you think Nos bothers to read through the whole thread like this as scum? I'll finish sorting them when they're caught up unless that doesn't happen before deadline but I don't have huge problems with them so far.

@Nos I'm curious you mean when you say that 203 was your towngame; you were scum in singleball there. I'd also like to hear what you have to say about your reads on Creature, Ginngie and BTD where you're up to right now. I notice you're townreading Titus; what in particular are you seeing there?

[79 CE]

Where are you at with BTD?

[79 CE]

Ginngie is in fact a girl.

[79 CE]

Sure. These are pretty basic at the moment, sorry.

Most of these aren't reads and I'd specifically like you to walk me through your progression; talk to me about how you arrived at each read, talk to me in as much detail as you're able to about what precisely your read is on their alignment. I'm not asking you to write an essay, but what you've written here is not even close to enough. I struggle to believe that you could have done so little sorting over 170 pages if you're town here; I need you to give me actual reads and show me your work, please.

[79 CE]

He's basically scum for those active listening. He's scum w Dram. Will explain later.

Titus I don't get why you're refusing to talk with me here. What is going on with you?

[79 CE]

TWIE, please clear up your softclaim. You're saying that DrCirno used an action day 1 and you have a result PM?

[79 CE]

Titus, what happens if BTD flips town?

[79 CE]

You seem to be townreading Math as a preflip on BTD. I'm asking what happens to your reads if BTD is town here.

[79 CE]

You seem to be townreading Math as a preflip on BTD. I'm asking what happens to your reads if BTD is town here.

No. I'm townreading Math for being their usual can't get out of their own way townself. Scum!Math has a more coherent narrative.

So you think I'm misreading Math because I haven't seen them drunk or at work before? Because they don't feel like the Math as town that I've seen before, they do feel like the Math as scum that I've seen before, and you're the only one here who I trust to have a correct read on Math who disagrees with the scumread. How strong is your read there in a vacuum?

[79 CE]

I have minor reservations on Math, but it's solely because the bus driver has zero foundation in logic. If a bus driver is real (unless they are the bus driver), then I'd scumread them.

Math argumentation at times has zero foundation as town too, in my experience. Why this here?

[79 CE]

How's the catchup going Nos?

[79 CE]

Aronis, I realize this might be a pretty pointless question, but do you have any reads?

[79 CE]

BTD6 is probably scum
and lynching ginngie, creature, titus, or you is always a good idea

Why are you scumreading BTD, Ginngie and Titus?

[79 CE]

mastina, go over reads with me?

[79 CE]

Ginngie and Titus are bad because there cannot be three protectives plus lynching the former specifically greatly improves the game quality

It's rolemadness; 3 protectives isn't difficult to believe at all. The setup seems to have been designed to allow town to have a good amount of strong power in the setup without making the game unwinnable for scum; scum are also given boons and limited control over how much power town has access to. I don't think it's at all unreasonable that there would be 3 protectives and I think saying that one or more of them must be scum just because RNG happens to have dictated that they are all in the Light PT right now is pretty flawed.

[79 CE]

gotta say, i've always loved reviewing reads with the mod. There's nobody better at providing feedback on whether or not your reads are right. nobody

If mastina were in the game we probably would've solved the game together by now; as it is I have no one to talk and am getting desperate enough that I am in fact turning to the mod.

[79 CE]

I've tried to talk to you; you've felt unresponsive overall. I'm almost certainly voting BTD at EoD if nothing changes from that slot but right now I'm trying to narrow the PoE and sort out the remainder of my reads. There doesn't seem to be anyone else in the game actually willing to go over reads in a substantive way; everyone seems to just be running around like chickens with their heads off or just yelling at each other and not doing anything to challenge their view of the gamestate.

Weird; don't remember signing out.

<<< No worries, your girlfriend's got your back.
And preferably a lot more than that~ <3 >>>

[79 CE]

You're townreading Nos, then?

[79 CE]

Talk with me about it? Are you reading the gamestate here or are you looking at content from the slot?

[79 CE]

Titus I really want to respect your Math read but I just can't fathom how you're townreading this.

[79 CE]

Nancy were you in Civilization Mafia? This is the same Math.

In the sense of me in a past life being in the game, yes I was in the game; what similarities are there to here? I'll go back and read their ISO from that game but it would be helpful if you tell me what you're seeing because what I remember from their play there was nothing like what I see here. How do you parse their complete zilch of a response to the scumslip as coming from Math as town?

[79 CE]

Ginngie, why are you scumreading Nos?

[79 CE]

How are Snarky and Eddie still in your readslist?

[79 CE]

This game is getting fun again.

Town has information from light. It made bulba near lock town.

What information was this?

[79 CE]

...No I seriously don't know. Each day I come back to a mountain and I start back to front to try to stay relevant.

Game has been super inactive so I don't know where this is coming from.

[79 CE]

Bulba scumhunted and didn't know the guilty was fake.

Don't feel that's good reasoning. Bulba is perfectly capable of faking lack of knowledge as scum, he's not a scrub.

[79 CE]

Why would he have lurked as scum?

[79 CE]

Creature it's a long way to the win for us here.

[79 CE]

Right because one is artificially propped up by scum and town says no. The other is on scum and town won't vote it.

Townblock: Creature, Ginnie, Bulba, 79 CE, Me, TWIE
People I want to add and are really close: A2, Quantum (do something aside from pressuring me, the guy I piss off is usually town but come on), Vedith (Always shading Math)
People who should be in the block but town doesn't TR them: Nos, Math
Who the fuck are you: texcat
Scum: Dram, Aronis, Rauth, BTD6

Nosferatu - 4 (Creature, A2, QuantumRadius, BTD6_maker)
Mathblade - 4 (79 CE, Ginngie, Vedith, Bulbazak)
BTD6_maker - 3 (Aronis, Titus, Mathblade)

Doesn't quite fit, Titus.

[79 CE]

Which scum are shading Nos?

[79 CE]

Which scum are shading Nos?

Dram, Rauth, Aronis

Not a soul in this game cares about what any of those three slots has to say about the game regardless of their alignment; where have they done this shading that has persuaded people to vote Nos?

[79 CE]

No. My townblock has shown zero scumhunting from BTD or explained his fake result

He was roleblocked. 1938 is scumhunting among other instances in his ISO.

[79 CE]

Creature you here?

[79 CE]

BTD has played badly. Doesn't make him scum.

[79 CE]

Nos, or they're all town.

[79 CE]

Creature you here?

[79 CE]

That's not a question that we need to know the answer of.

[79 CE]

Not interested in having people claim results for no reason. Why do you want Math to claim? What are your reads and where are you up to with reading the game?

[79 CE]

What are your scumreads Creature outside Nos/BTD?

[79 CE]

Not interested in knowing whether Math has a role that allows them to know if they are roleblocked or not. Are you going to actually answer me or produce any substantive content at any point or are you just content with blatantly wolfing?

[79 CE]

Good for you you're a real fucken hero.

[79 CE]

Creature I want to sleep dude :/

[79 CE]

Your reads are shit Creature.

[79 CE]

God damn it.

[79 CE]

Sorry for swearing at you; it's late and I'm irritable. You're townreading most of the scumteam.

[79 CE]

Not quite I'm just debating the pros and cons of giving you my readslist.

Ginngie for starters, though.

[79 CE]

Math has already insinuated that they were blocked. If true, that tells us a lot in conjunction with BTD's claim. But Math is trying to walk away from this now. I'm not asking for a role. I don't care about that. I just want to know if she was freaking blocked or not.

Math isn't a girl. They insinutated they were blocked; that should be enough.

[79 CE]

Ginngie claimed jailkeeper and he looks very different from BIOCHEMISTRY (where all he had were shit scumreads).

Am aware she claimed JK. Doesn't make her town. Biochem isn't representative meta given that she hated playing scum/mafia in general at that point.

[79 CE]

I'll give you a crosslist Creature.

Mathblade

Titus
Ginngie

Creature

QuantumRadius

BTD6_maker

Nosferatu

Rautherdir

Aronis

79 CE

Vedith
A2
Bulbazak

texcat

dramonic

TheWayItEnds

[79 CE]

Why did I quote that

Guilty conscience obv :3

[79 CE]

So she had a change of heart?

We played an off-site game where we kicked ass and had a riot together and she started enjoying mafia again.