A Mid-Scummer Night's Dream - D.S. al Fine

[Cephrir]

Syryana
Regfan
Cephrir 3/1
MariaR 1/1
Brian Skies 3/2
Imperium
drealmerz7 2/2
Desperado
Sakura Hana 2/1
hebichan 1/1 i think?
Lady Lambdadelta
mhsmith 1/1

[Cephrir]

wow, this reads so fake
why do you hate it when nacho is right? I love it when nacho is right and makes sense, this definitely doesn't seem like one of those times

i would like to have been right about maria being scum but am acknowledging that that is a good point

[Cephrir]

:/

[Cephrir]

VOTE: Brian

Gut. I don't expect to succeed.

[Cephrir]

Also I am good at controlling my temper thank you! It's a shame dream 2 went in cause I could've been vigged but I guess I can eat a lynch.

#Thor #SelfVoting #Scum #AtE

Self voting is NAI for me I've done it as scum and town it's up to you to make of it as you will. I don't believe anything I've really posted is ate? If it is I'm not trying to make it come off as it.
Pedit: I don't understand your question. I don't think you're "not lynching"
Pedit2: It seems a lot of people think my actions during the second half of day 2 were scummy but my outlook is much different especially in the last 1-2 hours but that's bias of course.

Spit it out already don't make us drag it out that's just annoying

[Cephrir]

why do you want to eat a lynch? Seems worse than not lynching obv town.

I rather be lynched when we have a ML then none at all and given my actions were "scum play" (even though I have a

very

different outlook on the end day) If getting me lynched so people will focus on the real scum I'll happily do it regardless of my role,

But its literally the first thing you do?

Like we even managed a QL yesterday.

My opinion will be valued more knowing I am town and I can get out of the game at the same time so yall can focus on scum.

Seems like a win win to me
Pedit: I have nothing to say on the matter that isn't just outright rude.

In practice I find its rare anyone actually looks back at what dead townies thoughtm

[Cephrir]

I feel like all the zany logic coming out of this slot invalidates my read on it because I started from a point of assuming reasonability.

[Cephrir]

im going to claim today and everything ive said (at least today, yesterday will take more explaining) will make sense when i do.

calm down.

[Cephrir]

Speaking of claiming, i did say that i would claim today.

ugh

[Cephrir]

i am waiting for something specific to happen

[Cephrir]

Syryana 2/2
Regfan
Cephrir 3/1
MariaR 1/1
Brian Skies 3/2
Imperium
drealmerz7 2/2
Desperado
Sakura Hana 2/1
hebichan 2/1
Lady Lambdadelta 2/1
mhsmith 1/1

[Cephrir]

a) good
b) cant you just remove the color tags in about 1 second

[Cephrir]

I had it down to hider or weak role yesterday and anyone who didn't wasn't paying attention.

Also, lolcabd using wheel of time flavor for a game about dreams.

[Cephrir]

Did you hide last night?

[Cephrir]

Reg can I get your dream votes

[Cephrir]

Oh, did you actually crumb it?

Kiiiiiiiinda? Not in the "I left a cryptic clue" fashion that people do so often and get fucked for it, but like, I spent a ton of that day on Imperium, and even when I said "I would compromise on X, but I still will vote Imperium".

And then one of my last posts was basically me saying to someone "My preferred lynch is X". And I was hoping that the sudden drop off on Imperium, the sudden lack of interest on pushing or talking about them would be a keyoff to someone who could see my motivations.

I wouldn't have gotten this in 10 guesses

[Cephrir]

Imperium, dream votes?

[Cephrir]

Brian, if it will get you to quit harping on the point: I had a moonrise action, not a night action.

I am aware that I said night at one point but I didn't want to give it away.

It is most likely obvious at this point so I'll add that the thing I'm waiting for is having all of the dream votes on record.

[Cephrir]

Although I guess I could very marginally prove my ability at this point by telling you what imperiums dream vote will most likely be, and I don't think they're scum anyhow.

[Cephrir]

The part about not playing like I needed a hammer before that will make sense as well.

I guess I'll just claim tomorrow when I get to a computer.

[Cephrir]

Don't see how that would prove anything, unless Imperium just confirms it. That would be interesting.

I expect they would, though I've got to account for NMS and varsoon so I may not be able to nail it down exactly.

I'll look at it and count tomorrow.

[Cephrir]

Syryana 2/2
Regfan 1/1
Cephrir 3/X*
MariaR 1/1
Brian Skies 3/2
Imperium
drealmerz7 2/2
Desperado
Sakura Hana 2/1
hebichan 2/1
Lady Lambdadelta 2/1
mhsmith 1/1

Total above for day: 3, 5, 2
Total above for moonrise: 6, 3

Huh, that's interesting. Someone is already either wrong or lying, I think?

[Cephrir]

I forgot desp.

Syryana 2/2
Regfan 1/1
Cephrir 3/X*
MariaR 1/1
Brian Skies 3/2
Imperium
drealmerz7 2/2
Desperado 2/1
Sakura Hana 2/1
hebichan 2/1
Lady Lambdadelta 2/1
mhsmith 1/1

Total above for day: 3, 6, 2
Total above for moonrise: 7, 3

...Huh.

[Cephrir]

I double checked my role to see if it only counts town votes or something but that doesn't look to be the case...???

[Cephrir]

So, my role is a one shot dream vote count getter. I'm rachael rosen, the girl from do androids dream of electric sheep. Yes, I told you it was shit and you should consider me a VT, because it is and you should.

It's a moonrise action and I sit out of the moonrise vote if I use it (hence the X). The VC I got shows 6/4/2 for day (I guess 3 people didn't vote?? and at least two are wrong or lying? maybe i don't understand how dreams getting hammered works) and 8/3 for night (which still seems to show some nonvoters... maybe scum didn't vote because they were planning on using their roleblock all along?)

This means that Imperium's vote is surely 1/1 unless they're gonna also contribute to the mess of apparent liars. Or perhaps they didn't vote at all. NMS/Nos/Varsoon presumably voted 1 during the day, even without my role we can deduce that since dream 1 was revealed.

The reason I asked for a hammer was that I wanted to pull a shitty gambit. Like mega shitty, and it was very unlikely to work, but I was hoping to squeeze some possible utility out of this shit role.

My plan was to claim that I was informed that dream 2 was pro-scum (or not, I hadn't decided whether to include that or not yet) and I had the ability to dispense a power to a random someone who voted for the minority dream at moonrise. I would then ask like 3 townreads or something to be the only ones to vote for that dream. The reason I wanted the hammer for this was so that no one would have time to point out that this plan doesn't actually work because scum can switch their votes. I was gonna make sure the mods were around and everything, as well as switch my own Day vote to 2 to ensure that it went through.

Then, if my vote count showed 6 players voting for dream 2, we would know that all the scum flipped their votes to 2, thereby clearing the 3 townreads.

Scum probably wouldn't have fallen for it, but I figured it was worth a try.

So as you can see, if I wasn't playing like I needed to hammer before I asked for one, it's because I hadn't yet thought of a shitty gambit/was still trying to work out exactly what shitty gambit to attempt (I had several other plans before this one that I ended up scrapping when I realized they didn't work).

[Cephrir]

3 townreads or something to be the only ones to vote for that dream

(or possibly "enough townreads that 3 scum could flip the vote" if I went with the information about dream 2 claim)

[Cephrir]

im honestly excited for all the incoming posts calling me an idiot.

[Cephrir]

it's possible the scum split up what they were going to say or just said whatever random crap they thought sounded town without planning

guess we'll see what imperium has to say

[Cephrir]

Well, it depends on whether they caught on at all to what I was doing.

If they completely did, they should have all gone 1, right? Since we didn't know NMS Varsoon and Nos' votes that's the place to hide I would think

Can the scum even vote???

[Cephrir]

Maybe you're right, I'm still processing this.

[Cephrir]

it really makes no sense to try and figure someone's alignment based on what they voted for, especially in the direction of "they voted a towny looking thing, must be town!"

more catchup later, nice to see some productivity

you're not thinking about the information presented in a critical manner.

[Cephrir]

i don't give a flying fuck what anyone voted for but i do care if they lied about it

[Cephrir]

if the scum can't vote at all, i think they should've split.

it also makes my role waaaaaaaaaaay good.

[Cephrir]

Sakura-cephrir not w/w

Back to lurking

if you weren't a 1 vote i might vote you for this post.

i don't really feel like the sudden total lack of analysis when we finally do get some information matches up well with the analytical personality i've been seeing

[Cephrir]

I have no idea if you're town or not so I have no idea how good your "info" is.

so let's just ignore it

great plan

[Cephrir]

VOTE: Desperado

[Cephrir]

@2/1 voters: why?

[Cephrir]

Varsoon voted two

I don't recall this.

[Cephrir]

The VC I got shows 6/4/2 for day (I guess 3 people didn't vote?? and at least two are wrong or lying? maybe i don't understand how dreams getting hammered works) and 8/3 for night (which still seems to show some nonvoters

Did you know that if you remove Nos, Varsoon, and NMS from both votecounts and yourself from the second one that your total number of votes will probably add up (assuming Imperium did vote)? If true, it does indicate that there is probably a liar in the first vote. But it's a really weird thing to lie about, imo.

Sure, but why wouldn't Nos/NMS/Varsoon be in the first vote and why wouldn't NMS/Varsoon be in the second?

[Cephrir]

in fact i can guarantee that NMS/Varsoon are in there because I got my results before night started

[Cephrir]

@Brian there's 3 votes missing from both Day and Moonrise phases, while i don't really see any reason for town to not vote, i see even less reason for scum to vote if they were planning on dropping the nightmare to begin with.

more importantly everyone is claiming to have voted. if town didn't vote, they would admit it.

[Cephrir]

Cephrir was asking about the people who voted 2 and then 1, I thought?

Which included me, I voted 2/1,

It's about Day 2 Day Phase and Moonrise Phase

ah, shoot.

[Cephrir]

in fact i can guarantee that NMS/Varsoon are in there because I got my results before night started

Then idk. The utility of your role makes no sense to me and feels more useful to scum than it would for town. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

how's it useful for anyone? it's just shitty.

unless it's the case that scum can't vote.

[Cephrir]

....looking back might have missed voting during one of the phases yesterday...

I forgot to place my night vote*facepalm*

My vote was actually 1/0 yesterday.

i think if you don't submit for moonrise it counts as staying with your day vote? i feel like someone said that

[Cephrir]

too many holes as in no holes?

[Cephrir]

I don't get what the point of your role is.

me neither.

[Cephrir]

clearly the mods feel that it's a plausible town role since it's either my role or my fakeclaim, so.............................

[Cephrir]

You're claiming to have being given a dream vote at moonrise that takes into account all the players up to that point, no?

But if someone dies, then your votecount suddenly becomes ineffective because you have to account for the people who can no longer account for their missing votes. It also doesn't lead to finding scum outside of wild speculation. And it's not like you've claimed you can do anything else with this votecount.

So what? How is that a "hole?"

[Cephrir]

Like FML.
Ceph you said your vote would be gone during the moonrise phase, which means your vote should be present in the day phase, can you probably clarify that with the mod?

It's phrased as basically I skip the moonrise phase and don't show up for it. so it's pretty clear my day vote counts.

[Cephrir]

@sakura, but wouldn't my non vote make it only 2 missing votes for one phase?

No as i said, if you dont change your vote it stays as it was during the day phase. Don't think you can Unvote a vote, it's more likely someone that didnt vote in the day phase voted during the moonrise phase, maybe there's 2 scum, or im completely wrong, or Ceph just couldnt change his vote during the night and it stayed as is.

well, my vote was for 3 anyway, so that can't be it.

[Cephrir]

Oh, right, 'hole' probably wasn't the best word choice for it.

I just don't understand how it's supposed to help town, but it makes some sort of sense to me as a scum role?

I have no explanation for that. Shrug. I'm not seeing any way of counting that doesn't show at least one scum voting at moonrise, unless someone has a double vote? If that's the case then it's useful but otherwise IDK.

[Cephrir]

So cephrir, why were you so insistent that your role required you to hammer yesterday?

And then decided to take that back?

Have you read all my posts today?

[Cephrir]

@Ceph: Ok let me rephrase, is it possible that one of the missing votes from Moonrise is yours coz you cannot vote in the moonrise when you use your ability?

My vote should be missing from moonrise, yes. 11 votes is 3 fewer than there should be but one of the three missing is mine.

If this is relevant at all the mod initially told me 8/4 and then corrected themselves.

[Cephrir]

is it possible nos' vote might have somehow counted at moonrise?

[Cephrir]

if scum can't vote then it's not totally useless necessarily, though without certainty on the dead players' votes it's pretty much all speculation

[Cephrir]

if scum can't vote then it's not totally useless necessarily, though without certainty on the dead players' votes it's pretty much all speculation

Why weren't you asking people to commit up front to a vote on the dream either in phase 1 or in both phases 1/2 if you were considering using your power night 2?

well, i wasn't planning on using it unless it was by way of shitty gambit, and if i was doing that then making everyone commit beforehand would have given the game away. & tbh i don't see why anyone would commit to one vote and not follow through on it, that's just stupid

[Cephrir]

well, i wasn't planning on using it unless it was by way of shitty gambit, and if i was doing that then making everyone commit beforehand would have given the game away. & tbh i don't see why anyone would commit to one vote and not follow through on it, that's just stupid

What changed your mind to make you want to use it n2?

it looked like i might be mislynched soon so i figured i'd just see if i could get something out of it

[Cephrir]

Anyway, sorry, I just thought we could get something useful out of that information coz it looked odd to me orz

Sure, but the liars would still lie anyhow, any town would just do what i did and clarify a mistake, without some sort of vote cop there isn't a way to contextualize the dream counts into something reasonable.

if we could definitively say that there were X liars in some group that would be useful, but it's seeming like we may not get that after all

[Cephrir]

well, i wasn't planning on using it unless it was by way of shitty gambit, and if i was doing that then making everyone commit beforehand would have given the game away. & tbh i don't see why anyone would commit to one vote and not follow through on it, that's just stupid

Well, I guess I don't see why asking people what they voted for, at a point when it's known to scum that the dream vote didn't matter at all (given the roleblock dream overrode everything else), would be *more* likely to get people to lie and get caught out on it?

i didn't know the nightmare was going to happen when i used my ability

[Cephrir]

it looked like i might be mislynched soon so i figured i'd just see if i could get something out of it

What made you think on moonlight 2 that you were about to be mislynched, when on day 2 you wouldn't have thought that?

you realize i was run up to L-1 on day 2 right

[Cephrir]

i didn't know the nightmare was going to happen when i used my ability

Sure but my point here is, waht made you think, *early today*, that scum were reasonably likely to lie about something that scum would have had to have known didn't matter and therefore wouldn't have been worth lying about?

Or was this just "eh see what happens" sort of thing?

There was no reason not to try

[Cephrir]

it looked like i might be mislynched soon so i figured i'd just see if i could get something out of it

What made you think on moonlight 2 that you were about to be mislynched,

when on day 2 you wouldn't have thought that

?

you realize i was run up to L-1 on day 2 right

i.e. what made you NOT think "hey I should start forcing people to dream vote claim on day 1 as I'm getting run up, just in case I survive this wagon" on day 2 (after you were run up)?

I dunno. I don't know why that would be so important.

[Cephrir]

I don't think he could have gotten the day 1 results though? So I'm not sure how he would have used the day one claims.

The question was, why not:

ON DAY TWO
get people to commit to DAY TWO AND MOONLIGHT TWO dream votes
and then check it moonlight 2

pointless. that's the same as claiming. brings it down from a tiny utility to zero.

[Cephrir]

(your typo confused me too)

[Cephrir]

So, I'm having a pretty hard time getting into the swing of things this game. I was pretty solidly fucking wrong on Varsoon and NMS and my shit has degraded a lot and really all I'm feeling right now are townreads on Ceph and smith and a shitty scumread on Maria that is mostly OMGUS and a little bit of hypocrisy (in that she feels super surface-y on her reads but coming from me lololol)

So, Smithrir. Help me get back on track? I basically need to do a total reset but lack the will to

live

do that atm in a 100+ page game. Point me at people you want to look at and I'll go do that.

How about dreal, Desp and Sakura

Those are people of interest for me atm. maria being more of a hashed out one.

[Cephrir]

Yeah, sensor is the word I was looking for and couldn't find. It's also a role I think I've seen from ffery before? I could be mixing that up.

Dream 2 on Day 2, not Day 1.

Easily Dreal, backup Sakura. Syry could be doing a really good job pocketing me I guess but I just don't think that's the case.

[Cephrir]

(though my only explanation then for 11 votes instead of 10 during moonrise is nos' vote somehow counting)

[Cephrir]

(though my only explanation then for 11 votes instead of 10 during moonrise is nos' vote somehow counting)

gonna see if I can get a mod answer on this.

[Cephrir]

quick question do you need to send your dream choice in again after sending it once.
I also didn't vote for a dream on day 1

i believe it's assumed to stay the same if you don't explicitly change it

[Cephrir]

I'm a bit worried about publicizing LLD's targets, but otherwise think this could be a decent line of thought. Mod says lynched person's vote definitely isn't going to show up at moonrise though, so i'm still not sure if the whole not voting = scum theory is sound at all

[Cephrir]

I'm a bit worried about publicizing LLD's targets

If LLD dies, it's either because she found us scum or she died with a townie (thus shrinking our lynchpool). It would also confirm hebi as town, shrinking the lynchpool even more.

it's the latter that i'd like to avoid because i currently have no intentions of ever lynching her

[Cephrir]

I'm a bit worried about publicizing LLD's targets

If LLD dies, it's either because she found us scum or she died with a townie (thus shrinking our lynchpool). It would also confirm hebi as town, shrinking the lynchpool even more.

it's the latter that i'd like to avoid because i currently have no intentions of ever lynching her

I don't understand. Are you afraid hebi will get NK'ed?

The goal is to narrow down and lynch scum.

hebi getting NK'ed is fine. I just would like to have a hider for as long as possible unless they die catching scum

[Cephrir]

i would rate a strongman as possible if the setup calls for one

[Cephrir]

i expect balance to be pretty good.

hard to predict what scum have when we don't know what we have.

[Cephrir]

:/

[Cephrir]

Oh god here come the colored vote counts

Syr as my second it's your duty to finish the deed when I commit seppuku

[Cephrir]

I am also reacting to despite breaking out the vca in the first place.

[Cephrir]

Damn phone you don't know what I want to type stop guessing

[Cephrir]

You're not good at vca because vca is fake and votes are random. I'm glad you are among those who have noticed their results are no better than chance

[Cephrir]

I don't see much point in continuing to push hebi scum when that's obviously not the case

[Cephrir]

I feel comfortable dismissing it until I'm given a reason not to

[Cephrir]

Convince me that the manner in which they did that, rather than the fact they did it, is suspicious and I'll listen. I don't think all those players were scum scrambling though because I've seen town scramble like that. Plus, if they just were desperately looking for any mislynch, I should have worked just fine so I don't see what the point of moving on was.

Hebi isn't scum anyway but if she wasn't cleared that's what you'd need to convince me of

[Cephrir]

i've given several arguments for why you should be lynched, and i've stated more than once that i couldn't care less about lld's claim and it's relation to you

That's stupid

[Cephrir]

I do think hebi makes frequent scum posts but I thought the same thing the other time I played with her and she was town

[Cephrir]

like, she didn't fully claim for the entire day and wasn't forthcoming with her results, drawing a full counterclaim from the masons

then when she finally did claim, she lied about it

and we're all just good with this???

I'm not putting their horrible misplay on her. I don't think not wanting to full claim to save one innocent unless you absolutely have to is problematic.

The fuck up does leave a sour taste in my mouth but I'm not lynching a role that is supposed to kill itself in due time and if hebi hasn't been night killed 4 days from now then give me a call.

[Cephrir]

Really? I don't think my non claim was very town at all.

[Cephrir]

I think scum frequently park their votes where ever they think looks the most town rather than deliberately pushing an agenda with their votes, though I will concede I'd expect lld to do the latter.

I think those wagons are basically populated by the people who happened to be online. But I could vote maria still.

[Cephrir]

I doubt I'm gonna stop contending that this is a problem for later because llds role should resolve itself and it'll be suspicious if it doesn't.

[Cephrir]

Sakura did say she would claim today. Is that cancelled or what?

[Cephrir]

I could definitely see that slot being scum and I haven't understood the townread on it

[Cephrir]

I didn't say exclusively. Brian sakura and Maria are all people I suspect

[Cephrir]

Oh and dreal

[Cephrir]

Honestly if sakura's role is real it's pretty much gotta be town, I can't see scum getting that role since they could just lightningrod it all to people in their qt.

This is a dangerous assumption and I will not be making it.

[Cephrir]

this wagon does feel more than a little, like, resigned.

[Cephrir]

like it's very much an "eh, whatever" rather than based on someone making a good argument.

[Cephrir]

Can we vote imperium until they do things again

VOTE: imperium

[Cephrir]

Searching for replacements for Imperium and Syryana.

Make sure you look for a replacement for my heart as well.

[Cephrir]

Everything I signed up for is pretty much no longer present so you're getting even more apathy than you were before sry bout it

[Cephrir]

Same.

[Cephrir]

mods can you update the alive list

i look at that a lot and cabd always drives me nuts when he doesnt update it. :S

[Cephrir]

i will this time but it's usually your fault, like most things.

[Cephrir]

your = his, whatever

[Cephrir]

Syryana

MariaR
drealmerz7
Desperado

this is my lynch pool rn.

[Cephrir]

yepthat's it, its because it was replaced, that's totally it and i haven't at all had a consistent townread there

it's weakened but im still much more interested in the other three

[Cephrir]

What do you think I was supposed to do with this role that would've accomplished anything? I honestly want to know because since I got it I've felt like I was missing something

[Cephrir]

I suppose that could have helped but it seems more likely the scum team would have at least one person who would see how out of character that was for me.

Eh.

[Cephrir]

Asking for president claims on day 2 I still don't agree with, as it let's scum know today is a bad day to lie about it.

[Cephrir]

this would ACTUALLY create a reasonable motivation for lying about a vote - if scum votes don't count, then they basically HAVE TO lie about it since, you know, they'd really stand out otherwise)

I thought this was fairly obvious

[Cephrir]

Asking for president claims on day 2 I still don't agree with, as it let's scum know today is a bad day to lie about it.

Either there's no reason for scum to lie about it in the first place (and your role ability is essentially just useless), or there is a reason for them to lie about it, and your role has a bit of power. I guess I'll accept "ceph doesn't think about his role and how to use it" as NAI though, unless someone wants to come back and say that's bullshit.

:/

I thought about it quite a bit and continue to feel my actions were not dreadfully suboptimal.

[Cephrir]

implies nos voted didn't count tho)

you're left with a drastically nerfed counting ability. Hard to really tie votes to slots in a meaningful way when two known town slots are ??? on the vote counter

There was one fewer vote on the Moonlight Phase count than there was on the Day Phase count. Since it's assumed a Day Phase vote would just carry over to the Moonlight Phase in the event someone votes in the Day Phase and not the Moonlight Phase, it can be assumed the person we lynched {Nos} did vote and have their vote counted. The only other scenario is if someone votes for a dream during the Day Phase that gets eliminated in the Moonlight Phase, but the only players that claimed to have voted for Dream 3 are Ceph and myself, and it matches with the results Ceph claimed (so it's unlikely for the missing vote to be a result of anything else other than Nos being lynched).

Unless you think town would just lie about it, a dead townie's claimed votes would be reliable as far as a vote counter goes.

The one vote that goes missing from day to moonrise is my own, though.

I still can't explain where nos' vote went but I have mod confirmation it would not have counted at moonrise.

[Cephrir]

And yes I'm not a strong mechanical player but I still don't know that my role in this game is a good example of that

Pedit: for the time being, yes, I agree.

[Cephrir]

I will consider LLD tomorrow provided she gets tonight to do everything in her power to get killed.

[Cephrir]

{}
{Brian > Reg hebi}
{TWIE Sakura > serra dreal smith}
{Maria Desp > LLD}
{}

Yuck, that went worse than I felt like it was going to.

[Cephrir]

VOTE: maria

feel better about this

[Cephrir]

VOTE: maria

feel better about this

Can you talk about what in particular makes you feel better about this?

i mean that i feel better about it than i currently feel about the desp wagon

[Cephrir]

tbh i was only off it for the ate and i've talked myself back into not caring about that

[Cephrir]

i mean that i feel better about it than i currently feel about the desp wagon

What in particular differentiates the two? On the previous page it read like you'd had them even?

Is it that there are votes/voters you don't like on the desp wagon? Something else?

same overall category doesn't mean i can't find a preference.

well, potentially LLD, but also a pessimistic belief that we didn't nail 2 scum day 1.

[Cephrir]

Also if you can walk through your syr TR that'd be helpful, since I just skimmed your iso and I don't think you ever really explained it.

the parts where he's put energy into the game have felt good. my sense is that he prefers town, and i could feel some fire at those times. we've also been on the same wavelength, and i know my thoughts are town ones so etc.

i've downgraded it to a lean because of him petering out.

[Cephrir]

everyone keeps saying i fucked up and i really don't super think i did & yall are meanies.

[Cephrir]

unless it is a scum ability but scum can't receive dreams and she has to pick a towny to give to, which I think would be interesting and fine setup wise

[Cephrir]

@dreal: MS doesn't really use "you're not allowed to say x" mechanics on account of the obvious problems with where the line is or isn't that leads to rule bending. And also because they're shit.

[Cephrir]

I know you're gonna say but what if or back at my old school but I've been here 11 years and never seen that

[Cephrir]

Oh god I signed up for this site 11 years ago and I'm still here what's wrong with me

[Cephrir]

I quit in 08 and came back in 10, I think.

I do manage to frequently go months without playing and you'd have to drug me to get me in more than 2 games at once these days. Luckily.

[Cephrir]

I think scum can get dreams. Otherwise sakura's ability is basically a cop. If she's scum we can revisit this assumptiom.

I don't think we should assume the functions if dreams that haven't been revealed.

[Cephrir]

The next time this phone corrects of to if I am throwing it at the wall

[Cephrir]

i think they had the line from the sample role pm. that's how i read it at first too.

[Cephrir]

Everyone on a 2 vote or fewer wagon is essentially vanity voting right now.

Lolk. But 3 is a real wagon. Uh huh.

[Cephrir]

Ugh you did not do an @everyone god I hate those

[Cephrir]

VOTE: desp

[Cephrir]

i think sakura's role is town now

it's starting to seem like it's either 14v3 or we're underpowered

[Cephrir]

i think sakura's role is town now

it's starting to seem like it's either 14v3 or we're underpowered

Why do you think that's more true now than it was yesterday? Objectively speaking, watcher is a non shitty power, while BP was always kind of crap (cop would have been better but w/e). If anything, the watcher power makes me LESS like "oh yeah town power is garbage especially given scum super roleblocker"

More thought and more VT flips

[Cephrir]

That's not any of the people reg suggested? :/

[Cephrir]

I could still do a maria lynch but eh

No lynch is also potentially on the table

[Cephrir]

How were we ever supposed to figure out your target?

[Cephrir]

I know lld is pretty good at this game so at this point the only way I can make sense of her game is that she's playing to get lynched.

[Cephrir]

yeah that's basically what i meant

[Cephrir]

So yeah, go ahead and give into your apathy instead of playing the game. I know I'm the next on the list of people to lynch

I'm scumreading you for not pushing anything with any conviction or energy at all.

I don't think that's unfair of me.

[Cephrir]

I actually think it is really unfair of you to expect me to ahve the same conviction, energy and focus that I would normally have when this game is already apathy inducing, my real life is legitimately the most stressful it will ever be with immigration to worry about, and I'm not allowed to be myself in this game and tell people off.

I suppose.

It's hard for me to remember this and keep it in my thoughts consistently.

Ugh.

[Cephrir]

If we don't have any other serious power roles claim then I'm not lynching LLD today. Because if that's all we have, then this is 14v3 or LLD is town, and the former case gives us time.

[Cephrir]

what on earth would scum need a strongman for

[Cephrir]

ok great

[Cephrir]

Why does this otherwise elegant setup have a random hider

[Cephrir]

Yes and I forget but I think I said it somewhere

[Cephrir]

Did maybe the masons dying cause the nightmare? The flip says they're 'modified' in some way.

Don't think this is how the order of events worked

[Cephrir]

you should probably confirm that with the mods

I did. The nos vote was in the day vc and not the moonrise vc. Which doesn't add up.

[Cephrir]

i dont think it'd make sense for something like that to be in place if no role like that existed, but i may be overthinking it.

The mods are thorough.

Also possible dream receptive scum with actives.

[Cephrir]

Lynching lld today seems wrong. If she manages to die on reg, great. If she's scum, the balance is fucked or there aren't 4 scum.

[Cephrir]

VOTE: maria

[Cephrir]

My gut tells me that game-design wise the nightmare wasn't a scum ability

Uh.

No.

[Cephrir]

She's scummy he's just blah

I vigged him in another game for this exact stuff

[Cephrir]

Valhalla wasn't even in the list of options.

[Cephrir]

I'm making this post to stall the dream timer.

[Cephrir]

Here is a recent Syryana town game.

Here's a recent game where he replaces into a scum slot.

Maybe it's because the latter is a newbie game, but his attitude is night and day

[Cephrir]

Literally read even the first 5 posts of each of those.

[Cephrir]

eh, i found a town newbie game too. it seems to me he's having fun in every game except the scum one.

[Cephrir]

So yeah. I don't want to lynch that slot today because when Syryana was here, he was playing around and enjoying himself, trying to work with the people he knows (Imperium, me), pretty standard stuff

And TWIE always plays like this

[Cephrir]

what about him? LLD is hiding there tonight so that will resolve itself one way or another

[Cephrir]

lld and reg can be on the same team.

if she lives we're most likely lynching her tomorrow regardless.

[Cephrir]

i am voting for who i'm scumreading

[Cephrir]

i know we don't have a mislynch tomorrow (well, *probably* not). my top picks for scum are the two of you and that is why i'm trying to lynch both of you in sequence. if i get this one right maybe i'll reevaluate based on that info.

same reasons i have been the whole game + other people are townier + ive seen nothing from a town mindset or much scumhunting just harping on the same reads without trying hard to push them

sure maybe it's just lld + someone she's cleared but that's a later problem

[Cephrir]

The Smith hide makes no sense. The fact no one's question it also makes no sense.

i agree with this and consider him a prime candidate for her partner.

[Cephrir]

you should probably not throw around "100%" like that.

[Cephrir]

as i said my best guess is LLD. if that's wrong i'm looking at dreal/serra

[Cephrir]

are you scumreading maria more or are you just more interested in the extra night action if lld turns out to be town?

the second one

[Cephrir]

The Smith hide makes no sense. The fact no one's question it also makes no sense.

i agree with this and consider him a prime candidate for her partner.

This reads like you think that the hide claim itself makes me likelier her scum buddy which seems... strange? Like, is there something that you feel connects us as buddies in terms of actual day play, or do you really think that the antispew claim of a wolf going down (if LLD is scum, she'd have to think that her lynch today is reasonably likely) is something that should be read into at all?

I'll try to have actual stuff to say tonight (who knows, maybe we can make the pie not lose 20 pieces this time ) but that struck me as odd on quick skim, and I'd really like some level of thought on that.

i merely don't have the powerful townread on you that everyone else has, so if you stopped being clear i'd have to take a good hard look at that

[Cephrir]

though i do also find it a bit suspicious how little sense that target makes.

[Cephrir]

I don't know why ceph sr's me. Like I know he does but I have no idea for reasons why.

literally go to the first page of my iso and ctrl-f yourself

[Cephrir]

i think i've played enough mafia that i can no longer ever believe in anything except inevitable town losses.

[Cephrir]

i get more aggressive than this.

i have a fluctuating game-persona.

[Cephrir]

3887 is my response to it; in essence, "fuck, maybe you're right"

[Cephrir]

my answer to that is to default to dreal but that's not a very satisfying answer and last time I did that it didn't turn out so great.

I don't have a lot of conviction right now. Someone needs to show me the light.

[Cephrir]

no lynch is bad. we need that number for LLD potentially dying, and we also supposedly have two clears.

[Cephrir]

are we really, really sure imperium wasn't scum?

[Cephrir]

this isn't related to 3895 i was already thinking it

tammy had one great wall but she's not completely incapable of faketowning, and she didn't post the rest of the time

[Cephrir]

Here is a recent Syryana town game.

Here's a recent game where he replaces into a scum slot.

Maybe it's because the latter is a newbie game, but his attitude is night and day

I feel that any twie votes at this stage really should be addressing this.

VOTE: Dreal

[Cephrir]

I could be off base on the twie slot. This games hard yo.

If you're town I would suggest making sure you lynch scum today so choose wisely :p

I don't think scum would take the double kill if LLD is town because they'd like us to lynch her for the win. I have every intention of doing that, so it would be correct.

[Cephrir]

Fine with dreal or maria I suppose. Would vote either to get a lynch.

[Cephrir]

Because I can do math.... why can't anyone else?

[Cephrir]

we have 10 alive if there's 3 scum left we can nl and be at 9 alive? If you die we're at 8 and we lynch reg

No lynching could cost us a mislynch and gains us nothing.

Hell if you pushing this doesn't make me want to not lynch you though. :/

[Cephrir]

Or if scum shoot her target.

If we do lynch, we still get that result. It's 100% negative utility

[Cephrir]

Beetlejuice, beetlejuice, beetlejuice!

Also lol at the idea that scum reading me is a novel concept.

[Cephrir]

Yep

[Cephrir]

*inspects and caresses hammer*

[Cephrir]

Do we not find out what the dream did? I was really hoping for a second lynch

[Cephrir]

oh.

[Cephrir]

so if there are 3 scum today, we lose?

[Cephrir]

so at this point either twie/dreal/serra are all scum and we suck ass at lynches and should hang our heads in shame, or lld is scum (which is obviously the case), or we're wrong about sakura, or there are only 2 of them left

[Cephrir]

Ugh

[Cephrir]

VOTE: LLD

If the scum want to out themselves by outright refusing to vote here then that's fine by me.

[Cephrir]

TIL I haven't been reading this game in any capacity

[Cephrir]

I don't even know what you're talking about.

[Cephrir]

Sure, I mean, maybe.

I guess I'm not entirely sure why it matters.

[Cephrir]

Gotcha.

[Cephrir]

This game seems pretty unfair with 4 scum even if you're town, then.

[Cephrir]

Having the option to nolynch would make that not an auto loss yeah?

[Cephrir]

i guess.

are scum really going to literally refuse to bus today tho? we can just say oh ok thats the team guess now we'll no lynch

[Cephrir]

oh but we get a dream

dur

[morph the cat]

vote: no lynch

Formatting fixed for the vote counter
~morph

[Cephrir]

Presumably because either lld is scum or because they want to mislynch her