17 Kilos of Cocaine - [GAME OVER]

[Desperado]

vote: cephrir

gather round boys and girls

[Desperado]

Is it bad that I think Reck trying pretty early on is so outside of the norm that I think he could be scum for it?

no, not at all

[Desperado]

...what else could it mean??

[Desperado]

i spent 5 minutes looking at that vote count and realized i have no reads

unvote

[Desperado]

lmao @ elli

is "he's online and posting elsewhere but not here so he must be scum who is afraid to post in this game" something you've had success with beyond the newbie queue or...?

[Desperado]

lol ya chesskid calling him "the most obvtown person in the game" is pretty fuckin' wild

[Desperado]

ya, i'm scum who's afraid to post remember

[Desperado]

still not even remotely accurate

[Desperado]

check your scumdar kiddo mine just got upgraded today its the scumfucker 5000 now

top o the line

now i'm kind of confused

is he obvtown or is he not scum?

[Desperado]

I mean, I could

but it takes me about a days worth to actually get the motivation to explain it.

Notably due to how fucking busy I am with school lately.

well, the rules were public and last i checked, fakegod doesn't have to blackmail people to /in his games, so if you're too busy with school to do something basic like explain a vote, maybe you shouldn't be playing this game?

[Desperado]

nah but like, when I do play I catch the scums, so it's worth it :3

that's cool and everything

but what's stopping these 15 words from having been an explanation of your vote? lol

[Desperado]

To be honest I was gonna propose a flash wagon on UT but I guess we should wait for the replacement. I feel a little bad following Elli's vote because his reasoning was truly the worst, but I really do loath how much desperado is posting without any reads

i don't think you're reading my posts very closely

like, there was that one where i said i didn't have any reads

then there are the ones after it where the angles i'm taking are pretty clear

so...???

[Desperado]

more importantly, why is kagami such a strong townread?

[Desperado]

Hey everybody!

Luckily, I had been following this game already, so I am pretty close to caught up. I see the deadline is in a few days so I'll try to do something soon.

long time no see wicked

[Desperado]

Ginngie is a good wagon of great justice

Kagami gets a pass for day 1 for being good at town

[Desperado]

Desp, you know perfectly well you could be doing far more than you have thus far, and I don't see how you justify being indignant about concerns cast your way.

i can certainly justify being indignant about stuff like elli's

was there another instance of me being indignant about concerns cast my way?

[Desperado]

(psst - if you have well defined reads then you still not voting is even worse! assuming you were just active lurking was the generous interpretation!)

psst

i never said anything about well defined reads

i said i didnt have any reads

and then i started scumhunting

i'm still currently in that stage and i'll vote when i'm ready thanks

[Desperado]

kagami town isn't something you talk about it's something you feel in your fuckin heart

that's cute

why is kagami such a strong townread?

[Desperado]

buddy trying to pick away at a random town read as the day of reckoning draws near is a really bad look

now it's just a random townread?

[Desperado]

anyway I was with you in that it seemed like andrius's rep out / Kagamis entrance was skeevy, but looking at kagami iso top to bottom now, looks town to me. think you're buying what I'm selling? feels like the hito, kagami, chess 3-bloc would probably get to set the lynch if we all got that sweet love

you are way overthinking this thing my dude. I am just noticing that me, chess, kagami will probably have a lot of political capital between us, I think we're all town, and we have some divergent reads. So, I would rather have the three of us agree on a lynch with a day or two before deadline, because we probably have the critical mass such that we'll get our way - as opposed to the current climate, which has a lot of low-impact scattering.

bulba is #1 town, chess is #2 town, kagami is #3 town - in a bit more of a brittle way because I'm over-indexing over a relatively small bit of posting, but for now quite happy with it. (why did I pick chess and kagami but not bulba for my 3-bloc? because bulbas playstyle is not as bloc-inclusive, even though it is part of what makes me feel so good about my town read.) feeling a bit less sure about fire-town and basically hoping that this whole fire, wheme, ginn mess just gets night power aimed at it because reading it is an absolute nightmare.

kagami town isn't something you talk about it's something you feel in your fuckin heart

buddy trying to pick away at a random town read as the day of reckoning draws near is a really bad look

...........

[Desperado]

I believe anything is possible hito

okay. if you believe there's a world where you convince folks to join you, clearly you are doing just an absolutely shitty job at it so far. what's your plan?

buddy trying to pick away at a random town read as the day of reckoning draws near is a really bad look

now it's just a random townread?

random as you "you are not connecting it to any theories about the gamestate and are just dicking around in the corner without taking a single stance on anything", not random as like, a value judgement about my strength of the read or something. if you wanna throw down on me or kagami then it wouldn't be random. but it sure looks like you're prioritizing picking fights just because you think you can win them over actually trying to identify scum and get them lynched.

you are putting a lot of effort into not explaining a read that you've placed a lot of emphasis on

[Desperado]

like I wouldn't be picking at a random town read of you hadn't been pushing it so strongly and I'm not sure why that appears to be lost on you?

and you and I both know that a vote on either one of you right now would be pointless and go nowhere so I'm going to continue doing what I'm doing

[Desperado]

buddy trying to pick away at a random town read as the day of reckoning draws near is a really bad look

now it's just a random townread?

Desp, trying for a semantics argument does not help my read for you.

all I asked him was why is kagami town. hito has stated three times that kagami is an extremely strong townread and I don't understand how he got there already. there is a huge difference between cephs take on kagami and hitos and I think it's alignment indicative so I'm pushing it

[Desperado]

like if hito had said that kagami is an old friend and he isn't an option today, that would be fine and I wouldn't have probed...but that isn't what he said.

[Desperado]

...

sorry we are playing mafia right? last I checked stating reads, being questioned on those reads, and then engaging in a dialogue on the read is how the game is played. "Why are you picking at this random townread" is a nonsensical question in the context of this game

[Desperado]

there's no reason to assume that I randomly picked the kagami read of the three hard town reads that he's put forth so I'm not sure why he did or why you're now justifying his poor inference

[Desperado]

@Desp: I don't care if you're questioning Hito on a read. I very much care that your point of attack is based on the word "random". It means that you either didn't put much thought into deciphering what Hito meant by what he said, or that you just didn't care. And if it's the second, that means that this is coming from scum Desp and not town Desp.

sigh

i didn't just pick kagami out of a hat, bro. hito introduced the word random inappropriately.

[Desperado]

Wow...just so much dumb...

With Hito, what's concerned me is that the questioning ignores context and the intent of Hito's posts. As has been noticed, Hito has had an incredibly strong townread of Kagami, and as for Desp, he's essentially been absent with no real reads of his own. Hito had also given a list of acceptable lynches that he'd like to see pushed. So given that, when Desp comes out of nowhere and votes one of his townreads, what do you

think

he means when he says Desp is "trying to pick away at a random townread"? This isn't exactly rocket science. So when Desp is picking a fight based on the word "random", he's either so clueless that he missed the entire freaking point of what Hito said, or that he's deliberately trying to pick a fight, just so it looks like he's doing something. If he wanted to question Hito on his Kagami read, that's fine, but picking a fight based on semantics is either dumb or scum. After everything that's just been said, it's looking like it might have just been dumb.

no I'm pretty sure you're the one who isn't reading closely because this isn't how it happened at all

lets recap:

1. hito says kagami is extremely town three times but never explains why
2. I ask him why he is so strongly town
3. hito says you don't explain kagami town, you just feel it...a deflection in other words
4. I ask again why kagami is town
5. Hito refuses to explain again because I'm just "picking at a random townread"

get it?

the argument isn't about semantics it's absolutely how much effort hito is putting in to not explain his third strongest townread and the way he is going about not explaining the read.

[Desperado]

Okay. I'll let Hito continue from here, because I don't care as much about why you're scumreading Kagami. I'm not, but I can see why others are.

i haven't even stated a scumread on kagami. what I find questionable is anyone having kagami as so strongly town already, especially when hito qualified that andrius' replace out and kagami's entrance was "skeevy" which means kagami's posting alone is responsible for taking a nullscumish read and turning it into a hard townread and that makes no sense...so I asked him to explain it!

[Desperado]

Then he refused a couple times and decided to demean me instead and now we're here

[Desperado]

vote: elli

there is absolutely no depth to anything elli has posted so far...i'm scum because i posted in another game without posting in this one, wicked is scum because he didn't post thoughts prior to catching up?? or something, it's not really clear

the rest of his iso is shit posting, which taken in conjunction with his "wahhhh site meta lets scum lurk now!" lamentation is pretty damn scummy

@ hito fair enough. you said elli is off the table today but i wasn't really following why. because chesskid said so???

@ bulb null scum at deadline sounds like plenty to me. vote elli.

@ ginn i think your bins case is well crafted and i like that i can see the town levers pulling in your brain, i just don't think any of that makes bins scum. join me on elli

@ chess why is elli not an option today again?

[Desperado]

VOTE: grapes

wheme

this vote is appalling

if you think bins is town and you've already voted elli there's not a single reason for this vote to exist right now

[Desperado]

It's really gross that Desperado is absent for most of the game and comes in to comment on like the fringiest and most irrelevant shit

hi

we've already been over all of this stuff you vaguely passed over here in detail

so add something new or take your shade and shove it up your ass

[Desperado]

alternatively, be specific about what fringey and irrelevant shit i commented on and what that means w/r/t my alignment

[Desperado]

i'll help you with him tomorrow, pinky promise

[Desperado]

alternatively, be specific about what fringey and irrelevant shit i commented on and what that means w/r/t my alignment

I feel like you're picking fights that come out of left field and ultimately don't translate into anything productive

You took issue with chesskid calling Whemestar obvtown and perpetuated the point with

now i'm kind of confused

is he obvtown or is he not scum?

when it should be abundantly clear what he means. It looks like you're trying to make him look bad instead actually pursuing something that caught your attention.

And then you call Ginngie out for not explaining her vote, which is fair I guess?? But it's not something you took very far and looks as if you're confronting someone to look like you're doing something

Later on, your engagement with hito seems reactionary to him calling you out about being useless, and it seems like you're trying to catch him out on saying something contradictory rather than explain if there's scum motivation behind your problems with his Kagami read. Why does his inability to articulate what looks like a gut read make him more likely to be scum (I'm assuming that's why you're going so hard after it)? There are other people that are putting a ton of stock into someone being town that they haven't adequately explained (chesskid w/ Ellibereth, for example), so why do you specifically have a problem with hito doing it?

ya i think you're just missing the point entirely

re: whemestar, there's a pretty clear distinction between being obvtown and not being scum? chesskid gave both answers and i asked him to clarify.

re: ginn, how far should i have taken it? i questioned ginn, i let the questions sit, and then she...explained her bins vote. sounds like i took it exactly as far as i need to take it?

re: hito, it didn't appear to me that he was unable to articulate the reasoning but unwilling to do so, which is a pretty clear distinction as well and something i would expect anyone to take issue with.

everything you've listed here is me scumhunting. i don't have to think someone is already scum to question a read of theirs, and the final line there just isn't how human interaction works...it's not that i specifically have a problem with hito doing anything, that's just who i was talking about at that time. there's no reason to assume i was singling hito out when the simple fact is i'm but one man, and in fact had already questioned chess on that elli read before you wrote this post.

[Desperado]

@ spiffeh

chess calls wheme obvtown

i call bullshit

chess clarifies that wheme isn't protown, just obvtown

i continue to call bullshit

chess tells me to "check my scumdar"

^at this point i feel like he's changing the conversation from why is he townreading wheme to why am i scumreading him even tho i never stated a scumread there. i interpreted him telling me to check my scumdar as him being unclear about the strength of his townread on wheme. he's yet to attempt to explain it as well but that appears to be par for the course this game so??

[Desperado]

I think it just fits the narrative of "innocuous thing to take issue with that is barely even worth mentioning in the face of everything else that is happening", just like your earlier qualm with chesskid

hmmm

maybe i'm the first person to tell you this but...you aren't the arbiter of what is or isn't important or worth discussing

what specifically are you referring to when you say "everything else that is happening?"

[Desperado]

honoring the sacred trust of the bloc is important to get a good lynch on a day with so many players, so many lurkers, and such wide-spread wagons

right

but your bloc isn't producing any results and in fact, i would argue that the bloc is what's responsible for the wide spread wagons...there's way too much implicit trust being given too freely and your bloc is dividing, not uniting

so maybe it's time to try something new?

[Desperado]

two wagons 2 softclaimed PRs is definitely results.

for which faction?

[Desperado]

@fg i'm voting elli

[Desperado]

nowhere near hammer range pretty sure it's 6-6 right now

[Desperado]

It also makes zero sense that Gustavo "Off-key" Lopez the street musician is murdering people, but plenty of sense that Gustavo "Off-key" Lopez is the flavor fakeclaim he had and Wicked post-hoc used his flavor and wrote a claim that lets him stall.

huh??

is this game based on something? typically fg does original flavor

[Desperado]

Dan's guilty on Spiffeh feels really fake, btw. He waited until there was a "guilty" on him to give that information? Yeah...no.

he claimed he had results in his first post of the day

[Desperado]

vote: spiffeh

[Desperado]

im not voting spiffeh because of anything Dan said

[Desperado]

All Wick has done is post his initial reads list and whine about people scum reading him for play style reasons

There's been no effort to sort any of the ~8-10 people in his null category and he's resorted to AtE instead

Kagami and hit have explained pretty well why an Even Night Vig role doesn't exist

Ut was scummy and I doubt (although not certain) that he would replace out if he was a vig

@spiffeh this is the specific post i'm voting you for

other little things here and there of course

and one other big thing but i'm sure you're aware of that so it's not really worth discussing

[Desperado]

it reads like an overeager bus to me

[Desperado]

+ the only point i even remotely agree with is that wicked ate'd a little bit

[Desperado]

um

???

spiffeh did exactly what you describe in the first one

[Desperado]

to disagree with a post doesn't make it scummy

what were the elements that made you think it came from scum

disagree as in i don't think anything spiffeh listed in that post is scummy (or accurate, for that matter)

[Desperado]

oh there is like 40 different wagons lets single out my partner and really drive it home while everyone ignores him

and this wasn't really what chesskid did either btw

he definitely fits as a bus vote too, along with xyzzy and grapes

[Desperado]

desperado if you're town you've had the worst reads humanly possible this entire game

this has been known to happen

but there's a lot about this statement that doesn't make sense, and i'm not sure if asking you to clarify is worth it

[Desperado]

Wickedestjr [9] - hitogoroshi, Kagami, grapes, Spiffeh, Bulbazak, Ellibereth, xyzzy, chesskid3, Ginngie [LYNCH]
ActionDan [8] - Firebringer, Cephrir, xyzzy, Bins, xRECKONERx, Ellibereth, chesskid3, Ginngie [LYNCH]

{hito, xyzzy, chesskid3, ginngie, ellibereth}


dan was off wicked d1 and i don't buy that it's a 9 person town wagon

i also don't buy that scum were off dan yesterday

scum team composition suggests it's 14:3

last scum has been hardbussing all game and is in that group above

vote: elli

[Desperado]

desp we're lynching ginngie today

nah

[Desperado]

@bulb if there's 4 maybe

but just look at those lynch wagons

[Desperado]

Elli would want to be the hammer if that's the case. He's not. We need to be thinking about this game differently.

no we don't

the cocaine is a red herring...the last scum bussed twice because ut wasn't here and then replaced out and the tide turned against wicked pretty quickly and dan was apparently obvscum

they would intentionally not go for the hammer because all that does it put the target right back on them

[Desperado]

Please read the scum wincon thanks

please use some common sense and understand that scum using hammers to achieve their win con is fucking stupid

[Desperado]

even if ginn started with 3 kilos, she'll need to kill/hammer six more people before she can "surprise endgame" anyone by...hammering every single lynch????

are you even listening to yourself bro

[Desperado]

Sorry are you assuming the coke distribution? Do you know something I dont?

i have no information, i was stating a hypothetical where even if ginn is scum who started with 3 kilos and she was responsible for every death so far she'd only have 6 kilos needing 12 to endgame

[Desperado]

I think it's totally possible the Wicked wagon was all town. I have no idea why we're assuming hard-bussing given that his role was so strong. And since two scum are already flipped, just by random chance alone the names on his wagon are unlikely to be scum - and I think the probability of bussing would be a lot lower than random voting.

the strength of his role becomes a positive to bussing as soon as the slot went to UT and he couldn't be fucked to play it and then wicked replaced in and was immediately scumread by several (at this point assuredly town) strong personalities

[Desperado]

A fuck ton of strong investigative power

what's strong about a cocaine cop

[Desperado]

np bro

i'm grad student iseul "dew" do (lmao), town groupme neighbor

i have a neighborhood with bulb and spiffeh where we can only post once per day and night phase

spiffeh didn't post day 1 or night 1 or day 2 and then posted but said nothing night 2 basically

bulb and i interacted the first 3 phases

nothing else interesting happened

your turn now ceph!

[Desperado]

who's next bud

[Desperado]

vote: bins