Beneath The Mask [Endgame]

[RationalNumbers]

Test post

--Math

Avatar coming soon. Just got home and eating dinner after a long work day.

[RationalNumbers]

Probably gonna watch an anime in the background while I read tired as fuck.

Here's to hoping I don't pass out.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

Initial thoughts:
Creature, Dave, Yume, Varsoon, Mastina town

Chikorita key ramicus Elliebeth Mulch scum

By the way Akira is a really good anime. Just finished watching it for the second time a while back. Would recommend it to anyone wanting a good anime.

Anywho back to reads:

Creature is obvious
Dave's early game content is way different than how he entered Gistou
Yume is posting relevant things instead of spammy things with her limited posting style.
Varsoon with his metaverse talk is probably town.
Mastina imho should be the lynch unless someone like majorly scum claims and claims some sort of power that requires them to be lynched before her. I think her claim is genuine and I think I know why she is doing it but at the same time kinda want Mastina around because if I am right and she is Town she is god tier Town.

Chikorita feels weird especially 379. Key is prob scum for discouraging the Mastina lynch saying Mastina prob jester. Ramicus and Ellibeth same reason.

Like assume Mastina is scum. If we lynch her then we eliminate a scum yay. If she is Town then she has a genuine reason for wanting to be lynched.

Purple Nurple doesn't look to be outright trying to stop Mastina but is talking a lot about it. Something doesn't sit right there but it doesn't "feel" scummy.

--Math

(I have to get ready for work and haven't synced with Drixx yet because RL sucks for me ATM but I wanted to have my thoughts down for Drixx and give him something to work with when he came online.)

[RationalNumbers]

Would it be particularly helpful for us to collect all the posts I made before Math joined in a spoiler tagged quote?


~D

[RationalNumbers]

your inability to do simple math is very scummy elli

fuck you you're rustier than I am

1v1 me irl do it u won't

Let's go: http://kskedlaya.org/putnam-archive/2016.pdf

Stop giving me math problems that distract me during lunch please!

Fyi your lattice problem is totally bogus lol

The lattice with only real numbers has to have a meet and a join which requires a fixed size S.

Then with that assumption could the problem go forward.

Assuming that the lattice L has the proper size then a given element in that lattice is a v I (v is a sub indicator phone posting) meaning a v i+1 is a + b where b is a calculatable real value. It is therefore given that a v I + 2 is a+2b else the given postulate of the elements being means of each other is invalid.

B as calculated before is a constant.

Now if you are talking a lattice size of zero then lattice doesn't exist.
If lattice size one then any number works and by definition is a constant.
Lattice size two is any two numbers that are the same.

Since a lattice is an ordered set I can get away with the assumptions there.

Furthermore mean is adding of two numbers together soooo ...

Anywho will do reads and such tonight and talk with Drixx.

--Math

(P.s. Scumread on all the math problem givers as it distracts me from scumhunting)

[RationalNumbers]

the same principle applies in other dimensions instead of a one dimensional lattice.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

A lattice of the geometrical case is the same proof.

Take the lattice and have one point at the origin.

Rotate said lattice to where another point is on the x - axis, no matter what shape given this is possible unless all points are the same.

Then you have a plane in which the original proof applies and then something at a higher or lower y axis.

Rinse wash repeat for every element not on the Y axis.

[RationalNumbers]

E.g let lattice point A be the origin and Lattice point B x,y

Rotate the lattice to where point B is at 0,y2)

Then all points between A and B are on the x axis in order to be a mean.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

what? dude no. here's an example

f (x,y) = x+y*sqrt (2). x,y in Z f (x,y) in R.

the question is given f (x,y) s.t. average property holds show f is constant function. drop the word lattice if its so confusing to u

Let f(x,y) = 0, 0 in the example above.

Let f(x,y) = X1, y1 and X11 != x0

If X1= 0 then all elements along function are in a straight line.

If x != 0 apply a rotation to x+ysqrt(2) (this really should be solved for x to be (1-sqrt(2)y = x) then you get
Y = x / ( 1 - sqrt(2))

In this case apply a rotation to all elements such that the next point is on the x or y axis.

This rotation turns a line into x=0 or y = 0 in which the above applies

Assume Given f(x) is not a line

Then through the rotation we get something like y=(X-2)^2 / 4

X=2 is 0 and x = 0 is zero.

For rule of means x=1 must also be zero.

Just rotate. If not a line boom done:

[RationalNumbers]

(X-2)^2 -4 * correction

[RationalNumbers]

Take the problem and reduce it to a know solution.

Namely without geometry it is shown that the ordered set must be able to be represented by a line. Therefore every element of the lattice must be able to be represented as a line and constant in geometrical applications. Furthermore should the lines of the given 3D shape every intersect the geometric shape is null and void.

So you either have a line or a parallelogram for the lattice.

[RationalNumbers]

Well actually no a parallelogram doesn't work either.

Only a line.

[RationalNumbers]

Initial thoughts:
Creature, Dave, Yume, Varsoon, Mastina town

Chikorita key ramicus Elliebeth Mulch scum

By the way Akira is a really good anime. Just finished watching it for the second time a while back. Would recommend it to anyone wanting a good anime.

Anywho back to reads:

Creature is obvious
Dave's early game content is way different than how he entered Gistou
Yume is posting relevant things instead of spammy things with her limited posting style.
Varsoon with his metaverse talk is probably town.
Mastina imho should be the lynch unless someone like majorly scum claims and claims some sort of power that requires them to be lynched before her. I think her claim is genuine and I think I know why she is doing it but at the same time kinda want Mastina around because if I am right and she is Town she is god tier Town.

Chikorita feels weird especially 379. Key is prob scum for discouraging the Mastina lynch saying Mastina prob jester. Ramicus and Ellibeth same reason.

Like assume Mastina is scum. If we lynch her then we eliminate a scum yay. If she is Town then she has a genuine reason for wanting to be lynched.

Purple Nurple doesn't look to be outright trying to stop Mastina but is talking a lot about it. Something doesn't sit right there but it doesn't "feel" scummy.

--Math

(I have to get ready for work and haven't synced with Drixx yet because RL sucks for me ATM but I wanted to have my thoughts down for Drixx and give him something to work with when he came online.)

mastina is not the lynch, thank you.

And why not when she asked to be lynched?

VOTE: mastina

I have a bad feeling about a few players but I wanna sync up with Drixx...E Not Chara and still don't like Chikitorita or key or Ramicus.

--Math

(p.s. mastina if you don't want to be lynched and that was a joke (doubtful IMHO ) let me know and I'd be on E or Not Chara without that...Something just doesn't sit right with those two. E I think was trying to distract me with math and/or buddy me.) Not Chara just feels weird call it gut.

[RationalNumbers]

RationalNumbers--drop the Mastin thing.
You pushing there with what you've got is going to bring this D1 down a black hole and I only see that coming from your slot as scum.

More likely to come from town them actually but yeah.

Homie, I've modded over half a dozen games that Drixx has played in and at least one or two recently with mathblade.
I'm not seeing that push as town from them in the least. Their slot might be town, but this makes me doubt it, and the push itself is hugely anti-town.

That's a really cool story would you mind autographing it for me

Hey chesskid you Town?

Hey Varsoon talk with me about my suspicious list. How do you see them?

Oh and btw either your scumdar needs work or you are scum. I want to find out which.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

@Varsoon you gonna talk about the people I actually asked you about?

[RationalNumbers]

I also wanted to share my only experience I had with Alisae role madness games- I played on on MU. 2 scum, 7 town. One of the scum was a godfather, and there were THREE town millers. I don't know how applicable that game will be to this but I guess it's worth telling

Mainly this here. It just felt out of place.

However I missed something when I went back. You can be a null read for now since I have too many scum reads.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

It just felt out of place.

Why?

I've only looked at a small bit of your meta but you seem to be a hyper poster and saying low activity while talking setup spec irked me.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

Ah okay then. Null Town lean then.

--Math

What do you think about my suspicious people list Mulch especially E Not Chara?

[RationalNumbers]

You forgot me Math. I’m town

LUV I never can read you. I've learned through my failures you are null for a looooooong time. My read on you will be whatever Drixx says.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

HURT WITH A BLADE: Not Chara
HURT WITH A BLADE: Ramicus
HURT WITH A BLADE: Ellibeth
HURT: Varsoon << Recent posting made my thoughts of them go way down.
HURT: Purple Nurple] << If Mastina wasn't a part of this hydra I would have it at hurt2.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

Keyenpeydee gets a pass due to wagon composition
HURT: xxReckonerxX

That would be my tentative scum team ATM. Not 100% sure mainly like 80% sure Not Chara and Ramicus are scum.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

oh reck you're here
please stop being bad I should be obvtown to you

Stop being bad yourself.

Why did you post that math problem immediately on me joining the game?

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

I was making fun of you. Remember NFL?
Your answer still makes no sense btw.

You mean the game you made fun of me and I voted chesskid all game who was scum. Before the game was mod abandoned I was tunneling chesskid3 hard core and everyone was like "no we're lynching Town" and you'd open the day making fun of me because........

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

Yo Chara, I have to head back to work but if there's anyone in particular you want me to look at lemme know for later. Please don't give me a hella long list though.
Idk how you're doing but i'm still stuck at 5ish townread wise (Rational, Wheme, Varsoon, Luv, and You) and basically nothing else.

This list is a fucking joke.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

And why would I stop it when you townread my top scumread?

Like how do you townread it?

@NC What do you make of Ramicus?

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

VOTE: Not Chara

It needs rope badly.

--Math

Pedit what do you think?

[RationalNumbers]

is there a point in you posting to complain about anything, Elli? might as well not post if that's all you have to say.
i have an opinion on 577 but i may as well wait for Varsoon.

smocaine: how can you tell?

Ramcius: what about either Drixx or Mathblade makes you think that's a good place to go?

@NotChara -- And a softball question set up to sheep Ramicus later helps you read him because...?

@chesskid -- Been keeping him updated on Slack. He just posts less than I do.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

PLing mastina is not a scummy position eityer

i never said it's scummy, i just gave my reasoning for vote on them

...?
are you wanting to PL them then.

chesskid: honestly? fair.

pedit: still town.

no, i just think it's good starting point as they are null read for me and some things pings in what they posted

Why didn't you follow this up further Not Chara?

See what Ramicus was thinking? Instead you comment on this now being a mafia game.

Was it because I am clearly not a viable mislynch wagon?

--Math

I have lots of reasons but I have to go to work.

[RationalNumbers]

k I'll get around 2 it later.

I'm townreading ram too Chara how does that make u feel

I am going to have sads if you're scum again.

HURT: chesskid3

LUV what do you make of this?

Gotta go to work but I wanna hear your thoughts.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

{drixx} - 265 is gross.

If you aren't nodding your head in agreement at this list let me know, because we need to talk.

I disagree with you. And I make posts that some people find gross all the time. I'm not your typical player. For everyone's sake you should dump us into the sort later pile. I can point you to really good reasons why you should view our potential upside as town as something worth having. And at some point I will choose to obvtown anyway, so just chill your britches.

RationalNumbers--drop the Mastin thing.
You pushing there with what you've got is going to bring this D1 down a black hole and I only see that coming from your slot as scum.

Read my (Drixx) ISO. I already asked Mastina to agree that we aren't going to go down that road again. Not gonna fight with a friend in a game that's supposed to be fun. Instead, I'm going to work with them in good faith. If Math head gets tangled up, I'll just ask Math to let me interface with them and perhaps that will help all of us

RationalNumbers--drop the Mastin thing.
You pushing there with what you've got is going to bring this D1 down a black hole and I only see that coming from your slot as scum.

More likely to come from town them actually but yeah.

Homie, I've modded over half a dozen games that Drixx has played in and at least one or two recently with mathblade.
I'm not seeing that push as town from them in the least. Their slot might be town, but this makes me doubt it, and the push itself is hugely anti-town.

Take me out of the equation because I didn't push. I am somewhat skeptical of Mastina claiming her role is so bad she should be lynched day one to prevent scum killing her and gaining utility (that's what I got from what she said; if someone thinks I am misunderstanding, then say so), and THEN in comes the other hydra head and says no they don't want to be lynched.

As I read mastina's post, the low level of synergy with the playerlist was a minor inconvenience and the role was so bad it has to be lynched. Then the other head says the primary reason Mastina wanted to be lynched was because of the playerlist and now that they have arrived, there's no need for it.

Definitely going to side eye that for a bit, but I'm not planning on having a huge threadwar. You remember SU. You know how long Cerb and I talked about specific reads behind the scenes before we said anything. If I ever feel like Mastina is scum, it will be that kind of situation. Nobody is gonna know it in thread until we do the work and it's certain enough to post the case.

We're nowhere near that at the moment. And so far I like the posting from that slot so I'm not sure we'll get there ever.

I'm not liking Creature here. This feels like Creature trying to break out of his scum meta. There are exceptions, but most people tend to be energized at the start of a scum game when they draw scum, since it's much less frequent (with anomalies occasionally, like the absurd streak of scum assignments I had over the Summer). My experience in the past ~3 years on this site, and the near decade on my home site, has borne out that the vast majority of "inactive" or "low active" posters are town who are either overwhelmed or are just very selective in what they want to engage with.

Scum sure must be annoyed how easily creature became lock town, with two masons (assuming creature isn't one) that's 3 unlynchable players out the gate.

Crap I cut this off earlier than I wanted to. Let's apply some logic here. Either Creature will continue to completely ruin his mafia games (for his slot) by being so incredibly low energy and disintested as scum (which until now has made it trivial to sort him, which in turn hurts him no matter what alignment he draws) OR he's going to realize that it has gotten so bad and actively go against that meta.

In this game he's been active and normally that's a town tell. BUT ... he wanted everyone to KNOW that him being active was a strong town tell. He is ideally positioned right now to go a long way as scum simply because of his meta. And he posted to take advantage of that fact. That self reference for gain is already pretty bad play but that doesn't make him scum.

So umm... you can CALL it shade if you like. I call it pointing out something that might be the real world we're living in, in case the game goes long and Creature is still around. It seems to me very plausible that Creature might be scum and might have picked this game to change up his meta. I didn't say probable (nowhere near enough yet to go there). But it's plausible.

You don't seem to know me, so you should probably understand that I play mafia from a rationalist perspective. I'm looking at what is possible, plausible, probable and pay a lot of attention to whether people's posts and progression of posts and reads make sense. Scum often out themselves when some narrative they were setting up gets blown up by something and they have to adjust and that adjustment is not consistent.

Once I find someone who is making up a narrative, then I go looking and generally find things I missed or didn't note on original read and end up catching them out.

If you DO know me and are actually scum reading me for pointing out that Creature NEEDS to change his meta and may be doing so this game and therefore should not get a free pass ... I'm going to give you another sideeye because that's classic me, and nobody who knows my play would be at all surprised to see that post. Ask your hydra partner, lol.

Initial thoughts:
Creature, Dave, Yume, Varsoon, Mastina town

Chikorita key ramicus Elliebeth Mulch scum

By the way Akira is a really good anime. Just finished watching it for the second time a while back. Would recommend it to anyone wanting a good anime.

Anywho back to reads:

Creature is obvious
Dave's early game content is way different than how he entered Gistou
Yume is posting relevant things instead of spammy things with her limited posting style.
Varsoon with his metaverse talk is probably town.
Mastina imho should be the lynch unless someone like majorly scum claims and claims some sort of power that requires them to be lynched before her. I think her claim is genuine and I think I know why she is doing it but at the same time kinda want Mastina around because if I am right and she is Town she is god tier Town.

Chikorita feels weird especially 379. Key is prob scum for discouraging the Mastina lynch saying Mastina prob jester. Ramicus and Ellibeth same reason.

Like assume Mastina is scum. If we lynch her then we eliminate a scum yay. If she is Town then she has a genuine reason for wanting to be lynched.

Purple Nurple doesn't look to be outright trying to stop Mastina but is talking a lot about it. Something doesn't sit right there but it doesn't "feel" scummy.

--Math

(I have to get ready for work and haven't synced with Drixx yet because RL sucks for me ATM but I wanted to have my thoughts down for Drixx and give him something to work with when he came online.)

Hey Drixx, important guideline to establish. Does our agreement apply to

you

, or to

your slot

? Because it makes a difference in how I approach this.

Umm ... going to give just a small background here and I'll let you decide if you want to agree to work together until you have some actual good reason not to. Mastina and I are friends. I've respected her since I first met her on site. We had a really long and exhausting game together and a thing happened which I took very personally. It caused some friction. But I don't want to have that going on anymore, and I'd much rather learn how to play with Mastina (and hopefully she meets me halfway) than keep on taking a shit on games we're in together.

So ... you can decide whether you want to work with us or me, or not, and I'm okay with whatever you think is best. Unless what you think is best is personal attacks and shitting on the thread, in which case I'll not be okay with it.

what about either Drixx or Mathblade makes you think that's a good place to go?

o that hydra abomination is drixx? score I don't have to read it thanks to the drixx head it's town

Abomination? We're awesome. Math is awesome and I'm already learning lots from observing. Don't be mean chesskid.

bring Drixx head back pls let him out of the cage

I'm here. I've been dealing with physical therapy and occupational therapy following my end of September hospital stay, and I've had to go to bed way earlier than normal because of early appointments, so on top of losing time to the therapy, I'm also losing time when Math and I can synch with each other and talk.

I'm around but one of the things I am getting from hydraing with Math is a very different perspective on how to approach the game, and so I'm going to learn as much as I can instead of cutting in before I at least talk to Math. I hope you're okay with that. Math and I both are learning from one another. If you have an urgent thing you want a response to just note it as such and I'll be happy to respond (as I'm sure Math will).

ftr I believe that hydra is scum and I believe chess needs to reevaluate if they aren't a partner

Yeah we're not and your reasoning is bad. But it's bad mostly because you aren't familiar with me I think. Let it work itself out.

HURT: RationalNumbers, rather.

What's this about masons?

Read the role PM in the OP, our conftown player has a mason buddy.

I have reason to believe that whomever is the main character/conftown has a collection of mason buddies. Like ... are you familiar witih the theme?


From what I can see, I think Varsoon is probably town and Not Chara is probably scum. My read on Varsoon is more certain than the one on Not Chara. There's a particular reason for it and I'm going to wait and see if anyone else picks up on it.

~Drixx

[RationalNumbers]

A wild mulchwagon has appeared. This is interesting.

~Drixx

[RationalNumbers]

Yeah ummm... no. You can die Mulch. Out of respect for the rules, I cannot explicitly say what I would do if you did that and flipped town, but I should think everyone knows what you would be doing if you did that and can make an educated guess as to how I would respond.

I can sum it up really nicely for you: Don't be a dick.

~Drixx

VOTE: Mulch

There is absolutely nothing town whatsoever about threatening to blow up the game because you are being wagoned. It is unbelievably immature, childish and absurdly over the top rude to the rest of the players and even more so to the people who put the time in to make the game. You are basically a PL at this point for even making that ultimatum in the first place.

@all: Kill this guy with maximum prejudice.

[RationalNumbers]

I am Ann Takamaki. Davezsaz is Akiru. I am one of the phantom thieves which means that I can travel from the metaverse to the real world back and forth, and I went into the metaverse pre game cause it seemed cool. I'm a role cop in the real world and a self watcher in the metaverse.

Kill this with fire.

Also look at the Drixx ISO and you will see me crumb to Davezsaz in a very specific way, so despite being a total asshole and fucking up this game, Mulch just conftowned anyone who also has what we have in our role PM and was smart enough to crumb it.

Also, Math and I have talked and the reasons I had for town reading Varsoon are not sound, so we'll have to re-evaluate there. There is also some other obvious things from the Role PM which have serious implications. Math wanted me to just post them but I think we'll talk some more before doing so.

I think we can all agree Mulch goes today. Let's keep him enough away from lynch that we can use a little time and decide what warrants sharing though.

~Drixx

[RationalNumbers]

Yeah I have some town reads. Her and Dave just to name a few.

Same but more

@Varsoon: I would stop talking about switching between worlds.

I softed early game.

That's something you could pull from the freaking role PM the game mod posted. You get no credit for softing known information. If you actually had a phantom thief role PM, you would have thrown up an entirely different kind of crumb. If you actually believe telling someone to stop talking about moving between worlds

when it's public mod posted information that the mechanic is in the game

is softing a claim, I don't even know what kind of rhetorical snark to throw your way. I can't think of anything that is even close to snarky enough.

~Drixx

[RationalNumbers]

It is unbelievably immature, childish and absurdly over the top rude to the rest of the players and even more so to the people who put the time in to make the game.

Sorry! Don't really care. I'm sick of being wagoned day 1 every game.

If you get wagoned every game, then you obviously have a very serious problem with your play. That's on

YOU

, and fucking up the game for the rest of us is bullshit. You should have been weeded the fuck out before this even started.

@Alisae: PM incoming.

Kill this with fire

Why do you want to kill town!

You have done nothing town at all. Your supposed "soft" was referring to public mod posted information. There's literally zero reason to believe you're town. If by some fucking miracle you actually are town, you are obviously awful as a player (since you say you get wagoned day one every game,

AND

because of the absurdly childish and immature thing you just did) and are therefore a gigantic liability to the town. You die and the sooner the better.

[RationalNumbers]

Previous post by Drixx

[RationalNumbers]

creature go read post 767 and come back.

Why do you have a stiffy for post 767?

~D

[RationalNumbers]

Hell...

Mulch we are talking post game.

Back on my first site I played mafia on (I view this one as my home) I was wagoned every fucking day. To the point of absolute sickening. To the point I would write literally 3000 word rants about how the player base sucked. Thankfully a person there realized what it was social queues that I did not understand.

Playing here I am not wagoned every day but I get wagoned a lot and am getting better at it. To be frank I still suck at some things but I learn. What you are doing right now is entirely unacceptable. I know because I HAVE BEEN THERE.

Drixx is literally hitting up my slack faster than I can respond right now while I am at work. Because I have lived through it I understand it.

Right now I think scum were pushing you in order to stop the conversation on Not Chara and a lot of the scumreads that were going on. Drixx and I were syngerging before what ever the fuck this is.

We can't change what happened. We just go forward from here. I will talk with Drixx about putting our vote back on Not Chara but I can tell he is pissed and I haven't even read everything and I am pissed.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

How about we keep fucking pants on and just not keep claiming everything. Jesus.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

THIS
IS
FAKED

I'M 100% FUCKING SURE,.

This can eat rope.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

THIS
IS
FAKED

I'M 100% FUCKING SURE,.

100%?

yup I'll 1v1 this any day of the fucking week

Let’s make a deal.
When I flip town, you self vote tomorrow. Deal?

Mulch that never works having done it before myself. Stop this.

--Math

@Varsoon Not Chara please?

[RationalNumbers]

Your supposed "soft" was referring to public mod posted information.

I townread Dave early. I hinted that we should not be talking about switching roles in a pointed way. That is hard evidence, and if you don't see that you are bad town or scum.

Oh and btw, you would flip out too if you were mislynched every single game

No you didn't town read Dave early. And no I wouldn't flip out if I got mislynched every game. I would realize that I was making some kind of major fundamental mistake and

ASK FOR FUCKING HELP

/Confirm

Expect low activity, I did this as a favor

You didn't do ANYONE any fucking favor coming to this game. You trashed it and fucked the rest of us over.

I'm decently confident in both Ram and Creature townreads right now

Here's your first post that mentions any reads. Dave isn't listed here. It seems pretty likely that you would have listed him as town here if you really were trying to throw out a soft signal to him.

Creature is town

Oh look ... nearly 200 posts later you mention a read again and it's still not Dave.

Mastina sounds town to me

60 more posts go by and another read but still no Dave.

creature go read post 767 and come back.

Why do you have a stiffy for post 767?

~D

It discusses how knowing akira doesn't necessarily imply town

That was pretty clear. Since you made it explicit, that's why our townread on Varsoon dropped and we're re-evaluating his slot to decide what we think.

Take it easy Drixx.

As someone who has designed complex themed games on my home site and as someone who is currently ~200 hours into designing a Dark Tower game for the Large Themed Queue and ~55 hours into designing a WORM themed game for the Large Themed Queue, I am most certainly NOT going to take it easy. It takes a lot of time and dedication to design a complex themed game and iterate through it for balance. More time to write flavor and get images prepared. It is a very large amount of time invested and this jackass just shit all over it because he's such a bad player he gets day one wagoned every game he plays.

I'm sorry ... but he deserves nothing but a GTFO, a WOTM notice to all active mods and a WOTC from everyone in this game any time he shows up again.

Ann(e) Takamaki is not receiving a Traitor role. Sorry. Won't ever believe it.

So, Mulch may be bad town, but is not scum unless someone cc's that claim.

No we better not believe it. For fuck's sake, we were explicitly told that Scum have fake claims. Alisae isn't an idiot so the fake claims aren't shitty, which means basically anyone EXCEPT the main protagonist can be a fake claim. You are smart enough to realize this, so I'm definitely giving you the stink eye for that post.

[float=][/float]

You aren’t on RC’s level .

There's a story here and I want to know it.

I'm lynched day 1 in every single completed town game so far. Look at my history. It makes me angry

So what. If you are lynched on day one every game, then you are obviously playing quite poorly and that's on you. There are MANY people on this site who would gladly help you if you asked for it.

Not only that but has just been pointed out that you're a fucking liar and have NOT actually been lynched day one every game.

Just because you're being wagoned doesn't mean you're going to be lynched.

I don't give a fuck. I'm not getting wagoned when I'm a conf-town role this game.

You aren't confirmed town. Confirmed town requires the mod to confirm you or a role to confirm you. Neither has happened.

Regardless, that's the game we're in.

Yes it is. A game where flavor is alignment indicative but scum were given fake claims. Unless you think Alisae is just an awful moderator, then you probably should acknowledge basically no claim clears anyone.



P-edit: What the heck are you going on about with the multiple PTs thing PP?

[RationalNumbers]

Question for people who know flavour because I think I saw this mentioned earlier: is it possible the scum all know who akira is, but besides the mason town don't? This is very important, for obvious reasons.

No it's not possible. We knew who Akira is from our role PM. Look at my post history (Drixx) and you'll see me plain as day give Dave a signal. If we were the mason he starts out with, then presumably that would not have been necessary, wouldn't you agree?

~Drixx

[RationalNumbers]

so I can't read the whining fest here but agree it has to die sooner rather than later

but I'm going to throw out a curveball

I had "no idea" who akira was as it's NOT in my role PM, but if you had put a gun to my head before :loldrama: I would have guessed correctly based on the number of people who thought it was funny to manufacture a townread on a slot that's done nothing.

Soooo this is why I blew up at Version and why I don't think Alchemist moment was legitimate. Something to consider?

I don't like this post at all, especially because I don't see anyone who had a magical townread on Davesaz.
I also don't like the whole "I AM TOWN POSITIONING SO WELL THIS IS WHY MY EARLIER COMMENTS SHOULD BE TOWNREAD"
I'unno.
It's all-in-all a kinda crummy SR on you, I just really didn't like this post and you had me iffed earlier 'cus you called me a moron.

I just want to focus on anything but the mulch/elli gamethrow.

Talking with Drixx about something and working give me a bit.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

davesaz, what do you think about Ramcius?

Towny

Yeah I have some town reads. Her and Dave just to name a few.

Same but more

You are trying to claim THIS POST is a soft claim that you knew who dave was? This is Creature town reading dave super early in the game and you making about as generic a sheeping post as possible. That is several AUs away from being a soft claim of knowledge.

No wonder you get lynched on day one ever... oh wait you lied about that.

Can we lynch this lying, game throwing, exceptionally harmful to town no matter what he actually flips guy now? Even if you don't think he's scum, he's certainly played anti-town enough to warrant lynching AND frankly it would be a lot better for the game not to have him around.

~Drixx

[RationalNumbers]

Drixx please Mulch is town please hit me up on Slack.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

Chess stop

Everyone go fucking take a walk around the block or something anything just stop posting mad.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

Like, as opposed to the vast number of people handing out townreads on me despite, apparently, me being very anti-town with how I've swaggered my flavor / play around so far?

People are townreading you because of your 'gamebreak' plan and your veryhard soft PT claim.

Speak for yourself.
Varsoon is a null to scumread for me.

--Math

I need to talk to Drixx.

[RationalNumbers]

Yeah I have some town reads. Her and Dave just to name a few.

Same but more

he also did townread dave here, so that post is just wrong.

No that's not him giving an explicit townread of dave to demonstrate he knows who dave is. That's him sheeping a post LUV made, which includes more than just Dave. I'm sorry but that's just not at all what he's claiming it is.

~Drixx

P.S. - going to go talk to math now that I managed to get a couple posts into the fast shotgunning of posts.

P-Edit - Even if I could somehow be convinced that the slot is town, the egregiously anti-town play has done so much damage, I want him gone before he manages to somehow do more. So our main character and at least 2 other slots are compromised now because this guy lied and said he got lynched day one every game, which isn't even true. And even if it were, it would not be justification for what he's done. He has to go. Period.

[RationalNumbers]

Rhetorically speaking: You guys are really fucking pathetic if you let Mulch get away with what he did and live beyond this day.

~D

[RationalNumbers]

I don't think assuming scum don't know who he is is occams razoring.
Like that's the literal only reason you think he's not scum yeah?

Look at his blow up in a vacuum and compare it to his md posts, I had linked an iso to a set of them earlier.

Those were about post count. Scum’

Stop posting, you fucking infant.

Stop attacking the player behind the completely bullshit ridiculous infuriating almost certainly Town play that makes me want to rip my hair out.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

omg ffs chara I had faith in you
he's not town.
this is faked

to be fair, only town has ever frustrated me like this. 100% success rate on this.
faking this sort of behaviour is an easy way to get policied, as Drixx is campaigning for now and i agree with. if a scum ploy, it's awful.
doesn't mean i wouldn't be happy to see Mulch flip. just trying to weigh pros and cons here.

The only world in which I don't push to get rid of a cancer in the game which could potentially do FURTHER damage to us is if Mulch were no longer the player on the slot. The problem is that if he had that level of integrity, he never would have done what he did in the first place.

if you're town can you like, be more obvious than in kilos though. Thanks

btw I don't think its scummy because you did it in kilos too but if you don't remember playing together where are you getting this "I can see elli doing that as scum" stuff from

i dont remember playing w/ you like specifically so you calling out specific things saying "you should know this"

but the "i could see elli doing that" is because i know your reputation/style from you being in SDC in that you're ballsy and bold

I usually only am as town tbh.
Fate's also going come back and drag me to hell if I can't get this mulch lynch through jesus.

For someone that’s accusing me of being arrogant you sure are flaunting your superiority over me drixx

You realize I didn't write the post you're responding to right? Further, you realize that I didn't ever comment on my own ability at all right? I just said that if you really get lynched every single day one (which turned out to be a lie) then you obviously are bad and should have long ago sought help to figure out why and fix it.

None of that is me claiming superiority over you.

You seem to be incredibly absurdly over the top sensitive to being viewed negatively in any way. That's not a good trait for playing forum mafia.

~Drixx

P-edit: Purple ... look at the ISO for me (Drixx) ... if that's too much to ask, I'll do it all in a spoilered quote into the hydra (I asked if anyone wanted me to and nobody responded). I legitimately threw up a signal to Dave that I knew who he was that is undeniable now that he's been outed. Either you believe scum knew his identity from the start and that I have been putting on a show for the past hour or so ... or we should top your list.

[RationalNumbers]

No. I'm not replacing. I had a thing happen. I'm good now.

This makes me feel like 1000x better about this game. I was worried my response to what Mulch did was too harsh and you were replacing out because of that.

~Drixx

[RationalNumbers]

Oh ... Not Chara is almost certainly scum. Should be obvious if you read the ISO.

~Drixx

[RationalNumbers]

You came within a hair of doing the same thing Mulch did, Eddie Cane. Laying down an ultimatum is always going to get a negative response. Please don't do that again.

~Drixx

[RationalNumbers]

You came within a hair of doing the same thing Mulch did, Eddie Cane. Laying down an ultimatum is always going to get a negative response. Please don't do that again.

~Drixx

Did it get me a negative response? No, because I worded it in a way that it wouldn't based on my knowledge of mulch. I study psychology, there's a reason I posted that the way I did. The thread cooling down was the only chance for objective sorting, risk vs reward made it worth it. My bigger worry was ya'll would ignore me and lynch mulch anyways, and /that/ was my concern, but I decided this game has experienced enough players you'd probably respect my wishes there. You were one of the ones at fault here, sorry if you don't want to admit that.

I won't apologize for saying someone who takes a shit on what may be well over a hundred hours of work by the mod plus shits on the rest of the players by intentionally doing as much damage to the game as they can ... because of 4 votes ... never gonna apologize for pushing that that person be immediately punished and shunned. The fact that you think he should be allowed to continue playing makes me (rhetorically) question your sanity.

~Drixx

[RationalNumbers]

math and drixx are both now ignoring simple questions, math about yume and drixx about why chara is scum, interesting

I will get to that question when I finish catching up. I was working answering questions on Slack from Drixx at the same time and trying to prevent a clusterfuck.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

ftr, if i'm a vig or if i'm not and if we have a vig, yume the "town miller" dies tonight. them not posting for this long while being online doesn't lock her as scum but it is a tell, + they're going to be a low act slot that will be hard to sort all game + they are an already arguably-pl worthy role.

any objections?

Yes. I object to policy lynching Yume here. I find it rather odd that on one hand you're not lynching Mulch because you're saying policy is anti win con and then on the other you say "Let's policy lynch Yume" who's inactive...Yume's always inactive.

I want Not Chara.

And the only reason Drixx didn't answer you is he has real life and was handling the thread while I was finishing up a major milestone of a project at work.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

ftr, if i'm a vig or if i'm not and if we have a vig, yume the "town miller" dies tonight. them not posting for this long while being online doesn't lock her as scum but it is a tell, + they're going to be a low act slot that will be hard to sort all game + they are an already arguably-pl worthy role.

any objections?

Yes. I object to policy lynching Yume here. I find it rather odd that on one hand you're not lynching Mulch because you're saying policy is anti win con and then on the other you say "Let's policy lynch Yume" who's inactive...Yume's always inactive.

I want Not Chara.

And the only reason Drixx didn't answer you is he has real life and was handling the thread while I was finishing up a major milestone of a project at work.

--Math

Policy lynching is not what I said. I said, if we have a vig, they vig yume. Aka, optimal vig play,.

I still disagree with that being the best play.

Let's assume Yume is a miller and inactive. >> Inactive slots generally get replaced. (Alisae is generally a good mod with those types of things.) Then we'd have a more active slot we'd be able to get a read on for the miller.

Let's assume Yume is a miller and active. >> Then we'd be able to get a read on Yume, similar to anyone else.

Let's assume Yume is scum and inactive >> Once again inactives problem and we get a replacement we can read.

Scum and active >> problem solved

Yume is not a slot that is going to take a team to end game.

If I was a vig (not confirming or denying) I would shoot someone who I can't get traction on during the day that I feel is scum that no one is really willing to talk about. In other words, no one would be townreading the slot but no one is scumreading it and all attempts to talk about it get diverted.

Speaking of which Not Chara...argument coming up.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

You came within a hair of doing the same thing Mulch did, Eddie Cane. Laying down an ultimatum is always going to get a negative response. Please don't do that again.

~Drixx

Did it get me a negative response? No, because I worded it in a way that it wouldn't based on my knowledge of mulch. I study psychology, there's a reason I posted that the way I did. The thread cooling down was the only chance for objective sorting, risk vs reward made it worth it. My bigger worry was ya'll would ignore me and lynch mulch anyways, and /that/ was my concern, but I decided this game has experienced enough players you'd probably respect my wishes there. You were one of the ones at fault here, sorry if you don't want to admit that.

I won't apologize for saying someone who takes a shit on what may be well over a hundred hours of work by the mod plus shits on the rest of the players by intentionally doing as much damage to the game as they can ... because of 4 votes ... never gonna apologize for pushing that that person be immediately punished and shunned. The fact that you think he should be allowed to continue playing makes me (rhetorically) question your sanity.

~Drixx

My point stands. WOTM/WOTC/ /out to avoid him in the future if you think he's that bad, and reports have already been filed I'm sure so at worst he will get a temporary ban for toxicity or playing against his wincon (I consider this unlikely). I am a competitive player who has chosen to put a lot of effort in this game, I'm not going to allow you or anyone to policy lynch someone who isn't momoman simply because they played poorly and supposedly is awful. If you're town, your wincon comes first, and your wincon isn't to policy a dude for outing someone who's deathproof anyways. I don't care about if he's allowed to continue playing other games or not, I care about this game and in /this/ game we are not policying him. If this was some garbage mini normal, okay sure, but this is a game I actually want to play and we aren't policy lynching someone who both has proven in the past they have decent reads when they're town and has proven is willing to accept the error of their ways and compromise by taking a break from the thread. That, btw, was the purpose of this. Mulch could've told me to fuck off and kept the toxic garble going, and he didn't (as I expected). This is evidence to you and chara and whoever the fuck else wanted to PL him or have him modkilled (newsflash: he did nothing bad enough to warrant that) that he is willing to compromise, so if you want to tell me why he's scum go ahead but otherwise I don't want to hear it.

Again, why is chara scum?

Did it occur to you that I said NC is scum and that reading the ISO should result in people seeing why? The

POINT

of that is twofold:

1.) Who will interact with me and how?
2.) Will others see what I see?

#2 is particularly useful for avoiding false positives. Given that I approach the game rationally, there are blind spots and false positives. Just because something has a higher probability to be the case than not does not mean it is absolutely so. But if 5 other people see what I see and point it out

without

me explaining first, then it's far less likely to be a false positive based upon faulty reasoning.

So, now that I came back to the computer for a moment before sleep, hopefully you will understand why I'm not going to respond the way you would like me to just yet.

I am town and did not know who akira was.

You should not have posted this. If you are town posting this, you are helping scum tremendously by making the pool smaller for them. You also explicitly confirmed for them that there is some mechanics in play they may not otherwise have picked up on. This post bothers me a lot because I feel like you should have realized you didn't need to post that. You could simply have used that information to town hunt and kept it out of scum's hands.

I'll take it, though:

In the game, Akira and his allies are the Phantom Thieves. They are the playable characters in the story. This is your team.
However, you still meet other people who support your cause--these people, in addition to the Phantom Thieves, offer you different Arcana (powerups), such as Chariot, Hanged Man, Moon, Lovers, Emperor, etc.
PurpleNurple claimed to offer the Hanged Man arcana. In the game, that arcana belongs to a character who sells weapons to the party and has connections to the yakuza. This character, while a supporter of the Phantom Thieves, is not an actual member of their group.
Ergo, it makes sense for him to be town-aligned, but not know Akira's identity.

Thank you for flavor confirmation for everyone. The beans are spilled, but earlier I was trying to figure out how likely it would be that scum could know who is Akira. If we were in a world where ALL of the town were given his identity as we were, then the probability that scum would be informed is much higher, or else he would essentially be a secret IC. But in a world where only a limited number of people know who Akira is, for whatever reason(s), then it seems much less likely (although still plausible) that scum were informed as well.

That distinction is important now that a bunch of info was spewed that shouldn't have been.

ftr, if i'm a vig or if i'm not and if we have a vig, yume the "town miller" dies tonight. them not posting for this long while being online doesn't lock her as scum but it is a tell, + they're going to be a low act slot that will be hard to sort all game + they are an already arguably-pl worthy role.

any objections?

I object. Yume played really well and showed dramatic improvement in the Yume U-pick. I don't want to see Yume killed for policy reasons because she has done nothing to deserve it. She already claimed miller so obviously she doesn't get to go into the late game, but it's just downright cruel to take someone who has really worked hard to improve her game and win over skeptics and kill her off before she gets a chance to play.

The difference between Yume and Mulch is that Mulch is non stop blaming everyone but himself, and Yume realized she needed to change and improve and went and got help from a bunch of people, spent time reflecting upon it, and then put it into practice. That deserves rewarding, and she should have a chance to play and not just be killed off on policy reasons.

math and drixx are both now ignoring simple questions, math about yume and drixx about why chara is scum, interesting

See ... this kind of post is really gross. Forum mafia is asynchronous. Just because you are at your computer and awake doesn't mean anyone else is. I was doing dinner with my wife, then showered and got ready for bed. I was gone from my last post until this one. But you are trying to set up a narrative that we're actively around and ignoring your questions. What makes you assume that? What town motive would you have to assume that instead of assuming we just weren't around?

I mean ... I almost didn't come back to the computer. I might not have made it back for another 10 hours from this post, or even a bit longer. That STILL wouldn't be me ignoring you. That would be me sleeping and doing other stuff that has a higher priority than forum mafia.

There's enough cognitive dissonance in your posting and now you are making unfounded assertions and throwing shade on us. We're basically off the table to lynch unless a scum flips and it shows they were informed of who was Akira, because I put up a signal to him that basically nobody caught on to but which is incontrovertible as a signal to him once he was outed. So we should be in the probtown/paranoia pile, and yet you're throwing shade on us. That doesn't make sense.

FOS: Purple Nurple

HURT: Purple Nurple

ftr, if i'm a vig or if i'm not and if we have a vig, yume the "town miller" dies tonight. them not posting for this long while being online doesn't lock her as scum but it is a tell, + they're going to be a low act slot that will be hard to sort all game + they are an already arguably-pl worthy role.

any objections?

Yes. I object to policy lynching Yume here. I find it rather odd that on one hand you're not lynching Mulch because you're saying policy is anti win con and then on the other you say "Let's policy lynch Yume" who's inactive...Yume's always inactive.

I want Not Chara.

And the only reason Drixx didn't answer you is he has real life and was handling the thread while I was finishing up a major milestone of a project at work.

--Math

Policy lynching is not what I said. I said, if we have a vig, they vig yume. Aka, optimal vig play,.

You said you wanted to vig (presuming you have a vig) for policy reasons. I already explained why I object specifically about Yume. I also find it incredibly hypocritical that you are lecturing me about using a town finite resource (a mislynch, which would only actually use said resource if Munch is actually town, which seems more probable than before given recent info dumps that shouldn't have happened) for policy reasons, and then you turn around and talk about using an even MORE finite resource for policy reasons.

Again ... cognitive dissonance there, with a dash of hypocrisy.

~Drixx

[RationalNumbers]

VOTE: chesskid

FOS: davesaz

good night, i'm caught up. mastina's town, obviously. less obviously but still obviously, Varsoon is town. i don't think key is scum either.
and no, i won't explain until i've had a chance to interact in real-time.

Part one. Not Chara has not come back to any of this after having several interactions in real time. Plus there's an FoS on our now IC davesaz.

skimming but immediately Drixx is a strong townread and Creature is null at best. Also ranking everyone at post 533 is disingenuous

calling arbitrary playstyle choices disingenuous in a blanket way is scummy.

key: Alisae is keeping track of FOSes for organizational purposes.

This post is very much doing the same thing while calling it out. Choosing to say "Hey this is scummy because I believe you should be more subjective. " That in and of itself is not providing content and doesn't really comment much on the situation.

viewtopic.php?p=9663707#p9663707

That post by E is important for context and that E and Ramicus seem to be in a circle whenever something happens with Not Chara they vote me or try to make noise to try to shift the conversation. What's really telling is Not Chara's next post asking what E did to be liked, but in 585 says they are fine. How did they go "backwards" from "fine" to "what did I do to be okay"?

viewtopic.php?p=9663590#p9663590
viewtopic.php?p=9663715#p9663715

This doesn't make sense.

Yes I scumread you. Drixx scumreads you. The fact when we tried to talk about you Ramicus comes in and votes and doesn't have any sort of explanation yet doesn't irk you, you don't interact with Ramicus to get your own "tasteless bread" read and seem to be very much "go with the flow"

E seems to be the piece of the pie that is pushing loudly almost anything that isn't scum. While Mulch is a big huge distraction he's just that. I completely think his play was atrocious but I have a strong townread of him. As I've said I been there. Then if I had to guess the Purple Nurple slot is the "goodie two shoes"...Still waffling a bit on that one, but mainly Not Chara Ramicus and E I'm pretty damn sure of and Drixx agrees with Not Chara and E.

viewtopic.php?p=9663772#p9663772

Still not particularly readable but "fine". There's that dreaded word again. If it's not readable it's not fine. Sort of like Whitney Houston's "It's not right but it's okay". It's not right that's where your reads are but it's okay because you're obv scum.

Not Chara as town pushes...This seems like Not Chara is quite content to sit on an invisible lawn chair and just watch.

[RationalNumbers]

VOTE: chesskid

FOS: davesaz

good night, i'm caught up. mastina's town, obviously. less obviously but still obviously, Varsoon is town. i don't think key is scum either.
and no, i won't explain until i've had a chance to interact in real-time.

Part one. Not Chara has not come back to any of this after having several interactions in real time. Plus there's an FoS on our now IC davesaz.

skimming but immediately Drixx is a strong townread and Creature is null at best. Also ranking everyone at post 533 is disingenuous

calling arbitrary playstyle choices disingenuous in a blanket way is scummy.

key: Alisae is keeping track of FOSes for organizational purposes.

This post is very much doing the same thing while calling it out. Choosing to say "Hey this is scummy because I believe you should be more subjective. " That in and of itself is not providing content and doesn't really comment much on the situation.

viewtopic.php?p=9663707#p9663707

That post by E is important for context and that E and Ramicus seem to be in a circle whenever something happens with Not Chara they vote me or try to make noise to try to shift the conversation. What's really telling is Not Chara's next post asking what E did to be liked, but in 585 says they are fine. How did they go "backwards" from "fine" to "what did I do to be okay"?

viewtopic.php?p=9663590#p9663590
viewtopic.php?p=9663715#p9663715

This doesn't make sense.

Yes I scumread you. Drixx scumreads you. The fact when we tried to talk about you Ramicus comes in and votes and doesn't have any sort of explanation yet doesn't irk you, you don't interact with Ramicus to get your own "tasteless bread" read and seem to be very much "go with the flow"

E seems to be the piece of the pie that is pushing loudly almost anything that isn't scum. While Mulch is a big huge distraction he's just that. I completely think his play was atrocious but I have a strong townread of him. As I've said I been there. Then if I had to guess the Purple Nurple slot is the "goodie two shoes"...Still waffling a bit on that one, but mainly Not Chara Ramicus and E I'm pretty damn sure of and Drixx agrees with Not Chara and E.

viewtopic.php?p=9663772#p9663772

Still not particularly readable but "fine". There's that dreaded word again. If it's not readable it's not fine. Sort of like Whitney Houston's "It's not right but it's okay". It's not right that's where your reads are but it's okay because you're obv scum.

Not Chara as town pushes...This seems like Not Chara is quite content to sit on an invisible lawn chair and just watch.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

UNVOTE:
whatever. there are twenty pages, I skimmed them and I dont even fucking know who's scum rn. let's just lynch ramcius for his shitty clash of the gods comment or something.

do u think mulch is town?

iirc you have experience with him but also misread him pretty consistently

Why the hell are you shading someone's opinion before they give it? This reads "hey no matter what you say I'm going to make it my agenda". Starting to agree with Drixx a lot.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

ftr, if i'm a vig or if i'm not and if we have a vig, yume the "town miller" dies tonight. them not posting for this long while being online doesn't lock her as scum but it is a tell, + they're going to be a low act slot that will be hard to sort all game + they are an already arguably-pl worthy role.

any objections?

Yes. I object to policy lynching Yume here. I find it rather odd that on one hand you're not lynching Mulch because you're saying policy is anti win con and then on the other you say "Let's policy lynch Yume" who's inactive...Yume's always inactive.

I want Not Chara.

And the only reason Drixx didn't answer you is he has real life and was handling the thread while I was finishing up a major milestone of a project at work.

--Math

Policy lynching is not what I said. I said, if we have a vig, they vig yume. Aka, optimal vig play,.

I still disagree with that being the best play.

Let's assume Yume is a miller and inactive. >> Inactive slots generally get replaced. (Alisae is generally a good mod with those types of things.) Then we'd have a more active slot we'd be able to get a read on for the miller.

Let's assume Yume is a miller and active. >> Then we'd be able to get a read on Yume, similar to anyone else.

Let's assume Yume is scum and inactive >> Once again inactives problem and we get a replacement we can read.

Scum and active >> problem solved

Yume is not a slot that is going to take a team to end game.

If I was a vig (not confirming or denying) I would shoot someone who I can't get traction on during the day that I feel is scum that no one is really willing to talk about. In other words, no one would be townreading the slot but no one is scumreading it and all attempts to talk about it get diverted.

Speaking of which Not Chara...argument coming up.

--Math

Yume was last scum in elemental and very nearly won, I think the last time she was scum? Because that's what the game called for, and being a player known for chronic inactivity, that doesn't necessarily mean you lose end game. Yume's meta might be lurking, but she lurks more as scum, and being online and not posting + posting elsewhere on site is a legitimate scum tell. On top of this, she is a miller, which again, is a role some people argue to be policy lynch worthy on its own, myself included sometimes. If you were a vig and that's how you shoot, that's not as bad as hero vigging ("hey I have this mild suspicion this super townread person is scum lemme bop them and be the hero town needs") but its still bleh. If you want to be technical, optimal vigging is whoever the vig deems most likely lynch for the next day, after removing negative utility (ascetic and miller claims that don't have a reason to be left alive). Vigs job is to remove potential mislynches; a chronic lurker miller is that exact definition. I think it would be very hard to justify vigging outside of mulch and yume, and I would definitely be vigging the latter by a huge margin.

LOL If this is Elemental Trinity we'll be fine. Scum just shoot me and people know to follow my reads since when I'm NK'd I'm right on scum.

I had all but one in Elemental Trinity.

Yume if scum I'm not worried about it.

Vig's job is to kill scum. Not remove mislynches. That involves shooting town.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

Yume was last scum in elemental and very nearly won, I think the last time she was scum? Because that's what the game called for, and being a player known for chronic inactivity, that doesn't necessarily mean you lose end game. Yume's meta might be lurking, but she lurks more as scum, and being online and not posting + posting elsewhere on site is a legitimate scum tell. On top of this, she is a miller, which again, is a role some people argue to be policy lynch worthy on its own, myself included sometimes. If you were a vig and that's how you shoot, that's not as bad as hero vigging ("hey I have this mild suspicion this super townread person is scum lemme bop them and be the hero town needs") but its still bleh. If you want to be technical, optimal vigging is whoever the vig deems most likely lynch for the next day, after removing negative utility (ascetic and miller claims that don't have a reason to be left alive). Vigs job is to remove potential mislynches; a chronic lurker miller is that exact definition. I think it would be very hard to justify vigging outside of mulch and yume, and I would definitely be vigging the latter by a huge margin.

Someone behaving in a way similar to what they did in a prior game with a different setup and different players cannot in any way inform you about their alignment in the current game. Appealing to a prior game as a reason to justify something is not really a good idea. You're going to mess up way more often than you get it right that way (unless you are some kind of god tier level instinct player and what's REALLY going on is that your brain noticed something you didn't and instead of figuring out what that is, you just play by that instinct).

Also ... the day isn't done. And you aren't going to be a high priority kill when important slots are outed and you (and others) are busy helping the scum narrow down the pool of who are the main characters. So assuming you have a vig shot to use, it seems pretty likely you will stay alive long enough to find a better use for it than a policy kill against Yume.

Also: using site login times and such is disgusting and bad play. Play the game based upon the game and the rhetoric and arguments and the information you get from the game. Taking advantage of the fact that it's a forum and tracks someone's last login and lets you go see if they are posting elsewhere is a cheap shortcut and cheapens the game. Furthermore, it's not even really something you should rely upon. Suppose Yume checked out during the pre-game and just forgot to come back. Or suppose she is prioritizing other things for good reasons and will be here when that prioritization is met.

I mean worst case here is she gets replaced and we get a different player on the slot. BEST case here is we get the Yume from the u-pick game made for her where she demonstrates even more growth and plays well.

But you know... sure. Just kill her for policy reasons that are outdated. Maybe she's scum and maybe she's not, but you have been very clear your reasoning is that you want to use your vig shot (should you actually have it) to make a kill purely for policy reasons. If you do have a shot and you do make that kill and happen to get lucky, you get fuck all for credit. You said yourself it's a policy kill.

Which of course I still find amusing given your lecturing of me for suggesting someone who has NOT put in the time and effort to improve which Yume has should be killed before he can do any more damage to the game. Sure ... there's an element of punishing his abhorrent decision to make that play. But there's also ensuring he can't do something else and inflict even more damage. I'm pretty sure my reasons are better than "she claimed miller and has to die at some point anyway and claiming miller makes her a policy kill". (I paraphrased you; I know it's not a direct quote. Please don't be pedantic and be like "I didn't say that" because that shit is tiring and useless).

~Drixx

P.S. - Going to sleep now.

[RationalNumbers]

Yume was last scum in elemental and very nearly won, I think the last time she was scum? Because that's what the game called for, and being a player known for chronic inactivity, that doesn't necessarily mean you lose end game. Yume's meta might be lurking, but she lurks more as scum, and being online and not posting + posting elsewhere on site is a legitimate scum tell. On top of this, she is a miller, which again, is a role some people argue to be policy lynch worthy on its own, myself included sometimes. If you were a vig and that's how you shoot, that's not as bad as hero vigging ("hey I have this mild suspicion this super townread person is scum lemme bop them and be the hero town needs") but its still bleh. If you want to be technical, optimal vigging is whoever the vig deems most likely lynch for the next day, after removing negative utility (ascetic and miller claims that don't have a reason to be left alive). Vigs job is to remove potential mislynches; a chronic lurker miller is that exact definition. I think it would be very hard to justify vigging outside of mulch and yume, and I would definitely be vigging the latter by a huge margin.

Someone behaving in a way similar to what they did in a prior game with a different setup and different players cannot in any way inform you about their alignment in the current game. Appealing to a prior game as a reason to justify something is not really a good idea. You're going to mess up way more often than you get it right that way (unless you are some kind of god tier level instinct player and what's REALLY going on is that your brain noticed something you didn't and instead of figuring out what that is, you just play by that instinct).

Also ... the day isn't done. And you aren't going to be a high priority kill when important slots are outed and you (and others) are busy helping the scum narrow down the pool of who are the main characters. So assuming you have a vig shot to use, it seems pretty likely you will stay alive long enough to find a better use for it than a policy kill against Yume.

Also: using site login times and such is disgusting and bad play. Play the game based upon the game and the rhetoric and arguments and the information you get from the game. Taking advantage of the fact that it's a forum and tracks someone's last login and lets you go see if they are posting elsewhere is a cheap shortcut and cheapens the game. Furthermore, it's not even really something you should rely upon. Suppose Yume checked out during the pre-game and just forgot to come back. Or suppose she is prioritizing other things for good reasons and will be here when that prioritization is met.

I mean worst case here is she gets replaced and we get a different player on the slot. BEST case here is we get the Yume from the u-pick game made for her where she demonstrates even more growth and plays well.

But you know... sure. Just kill her for policy reasons that are outdated. Maybe she's scum and maybe she's not, but you have been very clear your reasoning is that you want to use your vig shot (should you actually have it) to make a kill purely for policy reasons. If you do have a shot and you do make that kill and happen to get lucky, you get fuck all for credit. You said yourself it's a policy kill.

Which of course I still find amusing given your lecturing of me for suggesting someone who has NOT put in the time and effort to improve which Yume has should be killed before he can do any more damage to the game. Sure ... there's an element of punishing his abhorrent decision to make that play. But there's also ensuring he can't do something else and inflict even more damage. I'm pretty sure my reasons are better than "she claimed miller and has to die at some point anyway and claiming miller makes her a policy kill". (I paraphrased you; I know it's not a direct quote. Please don't be pedantic and be like "I didn't say that" because that shit is tiring and useless).

~Drixx

P.S. - Going to sleep now.

Said a hell of a lot better than me.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

Initial thoughts:
Creature,

Dave

,Yume, Varsoon, Mastina town

Chikorita key ramicus Elliebeth Mulch scum

By the way

Akira

is a really good anime. Just finished watching it for the

second

time a while back. Would recommend it to anyone wanting a good anime.

Anywho back to reads:

Creature is obvious
Dave's early game content is way different than how he entered Gistou
Yume is posting relevant things instead of spammy things with her limited posting style.
Varsoon with his metaverse talk is probably town.
Mastina imho should be the lynch unless someone like majorly scum claims and claims some sort of power that requires them to be lynched before her. I think her claim is genuine and I think I know why she is doing it but at the same time kinda want Mastina around because if I am right and she is Town she is god tier Town.

Chikorita feels weird especially 379. Key is prob scum for discouraging the Mastina lynch saying Mastina prob jester. Ramicus and Ellibeth same reason.

Like assume Mastina is scum. If we lynch her then we eliminate a scum yay. If she is Town then she has a genuine reason for wanting to be lynched.

Purple Nurple doesn't look to be outright trying to stop Mastina but is talking a lot about it. Something doesn't sit right there but it doesn't "feel" scummy.

--Math

(I have to get ready for work and haven't synced with Drixx yet because RL sucks for me ATM but I wanted to have my thoughts down for Drixx and give him something to work with when he came online.)

Good luck with that.

Drixx has his crumb too.

--Math

You're doing what Ramicus did for Not Chara.

It's kinda sad the lengths you will go to not talk about Not Chara.

[RationalNumbers]

nvm, that's what I get for replying inline lol

LOL... sometimes it seems like you collect mistakes for a hobby man. Don't be too hard on yourself.

Man I am not religious except in mafia we give blessings.

I hereby bless those long wall posts as an example of OMGUS.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

VOTE: rationalnumbers

mod - gladiating the other hydra (rational numbers

this is scum. mulch can post again. I'll be back phoneposting in the morning and I'll probably make a case after school. mastina and I habe both been pretty confident in this, but this slew of horrible posting setting up their attempt to mislynch our slot after their policy lynch on mastina the townread didn't pan out is just reassuring. FTR, quick notes: I wasn't "shading his opinion". I was stating what my impression of Mario's experience with mulch was. I wasn't your hydra posted multiple times after me asking you about your read, so that's bullshit too unless it was just math in which case I apologize. and math DEFINITELY POSTED without giving yume experience, multiple times, so yes, that's utter bullshit. and finally, thst last line of your last post is horrible and misrepping. I didn't say removing mislynches, I said whoever was likely to be the lynch the next day, which is also scum sometimes.

I'm going to bed. this is not a troll so hopefully alisae will be online in time to get some actual votes one way or another. even if I'm lynched here, mastina wanted to die anyways and scum never lynch me without piling on so this'll be very revealing regardless.

LOL ... seriously? Mastina claimed a role that had only negative utility. That doesn't describe gladiate. Furthermore, you just assured she gets what she asked for: a day one death. There's literally ironclad proof that we knew dave was Akira because I threw out a signal to him. The most important word there is "collect", because he gains something by collecting us. I was operating under the assumption that he knows he can gain stuff by doing something with the right people, but didn't know who they were.

I expect the others who were informed of who was Akira have a similar part of their role where they give powers to Akira via some method. Wouldn't be surprised if everyone has the word collect. So that's a group of people who have ironclad evidence that we're town.

Dave almost certainly will be able to confirm that he does indeed have to find certain characters and gets abilities when he does.

So like ... you just gladiated a slot that's essentially conftown (assuming your "I'm not trolling" assertion is legit), and in doing so you also put serious doubt on Mastina's game entrance and assertion that your role is so super negative that we have to lynch you because even being night killed would help scum. Let's take a look at that post, shall we?

Fuck me I just read my role PM and I want to be lynched now.

Like just seriously I don't see any way I could ever have use for the town.

I absolutely do NOT want the scum to nightkill me...which is the whole fucking point normally of having the negative utility I do. For that matter though, protective roles, stay the fuck off of me. If the scum do nightkill me (I absolutely don't want them to), the LAST thing you want to do is to stop it.

It's just about the worst role I've ever received and I am mad now.

Emphasized the most important part. Mastina is a brilliant player. There is no universe where Mastina says she can see no way her role can ever have a use for town if her role can Gladiate.

So you're either full of shit, or you outed yourself as scum and Mastina's opening posts complaining about her role were all theatre on the assumption that we wouldn't actually lynch her (and look, there was nothing going on against you except me putting a FOS on you for your self contradiction and hypocrisy). She even built in an excuse for not being night killed, because scum (unless they are clueless and have no idea who mastina is) would read her claim that scum power up by killing her as bait to try and lure them into some role which would hurt them. PGO or something similar.

I also find it hilarious that you are preaching about emotions and playing the white knight for Mulch but then just did a rage gladiate a slot you won't win against because being lightly scum read for your cognitive dissonance and hypocrisy hurt your feelings or something. It's even more amusing that you literally outed your slot as having lied repeatedly.

~Drixx

P.S. -

@all

: It doesn't make any sense for anyone not already outed as knowing who akira is via role PM to out themselves. Some are already outed and should be able to easily verify what I've shared. Dave himself can also confirm. And obviously my crumb being in my 2nd post (As Drixx, before Math joined and RationalNumbers replaced Drixx) essentially conftowns me unless we see scum flip with a rolecard that tells them who akira is.

Furthermore, we will know if anyone we target with our role abilities is a phantom thief. This is a passive Dave also has according to the role posted, and presumably the others who were informed and provide boosts have it as well. This means that a scum!me (assuming scum had the knowledge of who was Akira) would NOT have put out a crumb to alert Dave to do his thing because if we were scum, then he would target us and then would not have it confirmed to him that he targeted a phantom thief, and then we would eat rope.

Math and I actually thought that this made the role way too OP because it basically functions as a cop check ... but then people ran their mouths and revealed that not all town are actually Phantom Thieves. Some are just aligned with us, and so they wouldn't return a mod confirmation that they are a PT to any of us with the passive, because they aren't. When we talked about it, we were thinking that everyone town aligned was a PT, so that would have made him effectively a ridiculously overpowered cop.

So yeah ... logically speaking there's almost no way we're scum. We're literally as conftown as we could be without the mod announcing it. And you knew that. And you popped a gladiate. I don't even know what to say other than LOL.

P.P.S. - I am really going to sleep now. Nearly 3am and I am tired as hell.


P-Edit: ROFL. You're reaching so hard now man. It's clear that I said Yume won't make it to endgame because she claimed miller and millers get lynched before the endgame just in case it's a scum faking miller. I didn't say that Yume never makes it to the end game.

P-Edit2: Double ROFL ... a vote count that didn't reset or show a gladiate. I guess we found our lynch for today though.

[RationalNumbers]

Because you have chosen to be pedantic, I realize I have to clarify a sentence from my most recent post, because you have decided that trolling and griefing is how you want to roll.

P-Edit: ROFL. You're reaching so hard now man. It's clear that I said Yume won't make it to endgame because she claimed miller and millers get lynched before the endgame just in case it's a scum faking miller. I didn't say that Yume never makes it to the end of games in general. I DID say that as a claimed miller, Yume doesn't make it to end game in this game. I have severe doubts that you actually misunderstood that. I think you are almost certainly scum and decided to just troll and grief on your way to the gallows.

I'm also not terribly thrilled that it's 3 in the morning because you decided to fake gladiate, forcing me to stay up and lay out the start to finish case for why we're essentially conftown, just in case it was a real gladiate and just in case you somehow managed to trick enough townies into voting us before I can make it on tomorrow (later today). So yeah ... thanks for that. I totally love someone intentionally wasting my time. Especially when I'm recovering from sepsis and a hospital stay and my sleep is more important than normal. You're a real stand up guy.

[RationalNumbers]

weve all done cringey shit early in our MS careers...right?

PN and RN slots don't read scum so I'll stay out of that thx xoxo

In my first ever forum mafia game, unbeknownst to me I was a backup doctor. (Jimmy Palmer in an NCIS themed game where Dr. Mallard was the doctor I was backing up). I became a huge smokescreen for a couple day phases and scum were easily hiding, so I edited a post (which on my home site results in a mod kill) and suicided out on the thinking that I had no role (hidden roles are so bastard) and was doing much more harm to my team alive than I would by getting mod killed.

But umm... taking a shit on a large themed game that obviously had loving care put into it and obviously took a lot of time and effort to balance. That's not n00b level cringey shit. He's also not really that new either.

Also I deleted it from the quote by mistake, but you should TOTALLY be working on identifying town. That is as important, if not more so, than getting good at finding scum.

Or we could save the mod the trouble, your choice

@pengu, do you mind me asking what made you nearly replace out?

Quite a lot of time left and while Key's replace out request looks bad ... it's not a huge stretch to posit a town Key behaving that way. It would be better to get an active player in that slot and read them than to just lynch it because it's empty and that would "save the mod the trouble".

Also, PP already explained why he nearly replaced out, inasmuch as he said that the "yelling" surrounding what Mulch did was not any fun. Whatever the other thing was that came up and got resolved, he obviously didn't want to share it or he would have?

[RationalNumbers]

I know she claimed Miller later on but why am I like the only person bugging over the fact Yume first said she's BOTH town and scum?

That is actually a thing. Varsoon used a mechanic recently where someone began the game and could be recruited (I believe either direction, but I'd have to go check again to be 100% sure) ... and there's other roles where someone gets recruited or can choose. It hasn't been really super common but it is a thing.

And with that, I really must get some sleep. I've been typing with my eyes closed for awhile now.

~D

[RationalNumbers]

VOTE: Purple Nurple

--Math

You wanna say anything about Not Chara Purple?

[RationalNumbers]

Would people stop claiming things and helping narrow down the pool of people scum most want to kill? That would be really nice.

~D

[RationalNumbers]

You guys realize that we got a VC after the supposed Gladiate and the votes didn't reset and no gladiate was announced, right?

~Drixx

[RationalNumbers]

I have to go to work but Purple Nurple is the head of the beast.
XReckonerX and E are the loud distractors
Not Chara is likely an important PR.

--Math

Notice how the conversation continues to shift away from Not Chara or XReckonerX or E every time they are brought up?

Ramicus is likely to be scum who was playing defense earlier.

XReckonerX thinking there was a gladiate and saying that they want to vote park us and then not doesn't make any sense at all. It's not like we quit existing because the fake gladiate.

--Math

Gotta go to work but if I had a nuke all those players would be dead and flipped.

[RationalNumbers]

You guys realize that we got a VC after the supposed Gladiate and the votes didn't reset and no gladiate was announced, right?

~Drixx

This.

I think RationalNumbers makes a good case for why they're Town. If there were a gladiate I'd vote Purple Nurple. As it is now though I'm not really sure about them, and I can't figure out if the fake Gladiate thing is actually scummy or not.

I think just feels like Eddie lost his cool.

Reminds me of what happened when he was a loud fruit vendor.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

I'm so excited, and I just can't hide it
I'm about to lynch scum and I know I like it
I'm so excited, and I just can't hide it
And I know, I know, I know, I know, I know I want to lynch you

Ooooh ooooh
--Math

And now the attacks on my skill have begun. When you can't attack the play and are desperate you attack the player.

I gotta go to work but I wanted to belt that out like the Queens the Pointer Sisters are.

[RationalNumbers]

Why are you deflecting me and making it an attack on your skills instead of what it is: a post pointing out that you either willfully or accidentally missed the context of my post?

At no point did I say I was going to vote park you. It was an expression of frustration with your posting style, not anything calling you scum. I have not called you scum once.

In fact, I didn't attack your skill? I attacked your play.
- I said your playstyle of posting cryptic hurt messages frustrated me
- I asked about what motivation you would have to ignore context and assumed it was due to lack of reading comprehension because

I read you as town

- Speaking of which, yeah, I stated I got a town read on you off of that last post

So please, RN, show me on the doll where I attacked the player

instead of

attacking the play.
Show me anything you're talking about.

Why would I even want to attack the play when I read you as town?
Instead I dug for context around your actions.

You have quite the victim complex

Reck ... the HURT: PlayerName is one of the two examples of how to FoS for the FoS count. I presume since it's really obvious. Nothing cryptic about it.

If you want to engage with the game and need to work with someone to do that, then that's fine. If you actually read my response to the fake gladiate, and you follow the logic of it, you should end up with us as your 2nd strongest townread, behind the now multiple confirmed Dave as protagonist.

Like ... I threw up a flag for him to collect us and nobody caught it until I pointed it out after he was outed. There's literally no world where I am on a scum slot and do that, because the freaking role PM is right there. He would get an arcana for visiting me (he gets the arcanas from scum fake claims), PLUS he would get a cop guilty on me AND get an unstoppable vig to kill me. That would be literally playing against win con. So we live in one of two worlds:

1.) I committed suicide with my first content post of the game (which followed me just confirming I was playing) by throwing up a crumb for Dave to collect me, which inevitably results in my death.

2.) We're as conftown as we could be short of being able to pop IC and have the mod say so.


I think you'll agree we're living in the second world, and in that case, I invite you to bounce thoughts off me as much as you would like. I'll be quite happy to engage. More quality content in the thread is very desirable.

~Drixx

[RationalNumbers]

Oh ... Not Chara is almost certainly scum. Should be obvious if you read the ISO.

~Drixx

Now back to this. Why?

Work for a few hours is something that I can listen to with half an ear and perk up if something interesting comes up.
That means I get to catch up. Which has been extremely frustrating and occasionally entertaining.
This post sticks out. Probably, a limited number of town have special knowledge while scum and a larger town group don't have it. It is unknown whether some scum know it.

Even so, the aware town might slow play their awareness to prevent scum from being able to guess. Therefore posts which seem to lead away from awareness may not necessarily indicate scum by themselves.

Take look at 2nd post in the Drixx ISO. It hasn't been copied into the hydra.

~Drixx

[RationalNumbers]

So I have a townread on your slot from play but I hate this "conftown from unclear mechanic" bs.

Godfathers are a thing.

Read his role PM. It's posted at the beginning of the game. There's nothing at all unclear about the mechanics. And yes, Godfather is a thing. That's why I put a qualifier on the assertion that we're conftown.

Scum; however, know that we are indeed one of the PTs who knew that Dave is the protagonist. That means Dave needs to explicitly know that as we are probably the right slot to collect tonight. Not only are we outed but we're also active and engaged way more than other slots which might be killed, so my guess is we have today to impact the game and that's it. I would be quite happy if scum is ballsy enough to leave us alive, but I doubt it.

@Dave - Let me talk with math. If we're going to case NC I want to do it right.

~Drixx

[RationalNumbers]

shouldn't dave be copping more controversial slots than people who are like oooo I have arcana?

So you want to take a really awesome role and throw most of it out and have dave just pretend to be only a cop? You don't want him gaining powers? *Confused*

[RationalNumbers]

pretty sure he gains powers from everyone and you really ought to know that if you've been reading the thread. Pretty disingenuous buddy

I'm hard pressed to find a power better than either:deadscum: or :clearedscumster: and :otherpower: So who is confused now?

Have you really put put any thought into the fact that a subset of town are Phantom thieves, and others are aligned with the Phantom Thieves? I get that I'm speculating here, but it strikes me as likely that those of us who are Phantom Thieves will be where he gets his strongest utilities.

I could be wrong about that. There is also the utility value of scum being given only bad choices.

~D

[RationalNumbers]

I'm feeling like both of the hydras in the gladiator fight are town. I feel like Eddie/Math aren't really gonna be happy with this, though

no, math hydra isn't town. writing a wall as we speak.

actually gotta go out with gf, bbl.

Spoiler: responses

Bring it!

Meanwhile over with Drixx I'll be building something explaining my case similar to:



Your "case" will be :



and you will be



after I talk with Drixx.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

There’s nothing to explain Mulch..

+1 GMTA. E is just scum

[RationalNumbers]

I’m not playing low effort on purpose. This is just how I play. I did scum read Mulch earlier because I found that all he was really doing before he blowed up was just asking why people scum read him and not really hunting. His tone felt like someone who was afraid of being caught for the wrong reasons and his blow up didn’t encourage me to think otherwise. Maybe I should’ve seen it coming but I honestly never seen him this mad other then a post-game and his anger there felt justified unlike here.

I dislike this cause I don't think that getting angry at early scumreads is something that Uzi should think is scum indicative, essp for me, and why they thought I wasn't scumhunting. But I will give them a chance to explain

LUV if I had to guess is town. Other people can sort him after we're NK'd though Still following my rule of don't put a read to LUV. I'm leaving that to Drixx.

-- Still Math

[RationalNumbers]

I can not stress enough that if you think "oh (flavor person) fits this role so they're town!" No never do this no mod is that stupid that they can't make good roles. Will finish my re read now
~Maki

While Alisae has had eis hiccups. E's generally a pretty good mod. I absolutely agree with this

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

Nice I didn't see Drixx crumbling to be a PT

Yume why are you fucking with us?

If there is a traitor it's probably Kise. @Drixx so you see this later since you're not online.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

just got home, too tired. ill get to this tomorrow, soz. i love u math <3

Whelp I got dragged away for RL partly through mine. Ramicus is obv scum trying to distract from the discussion.

Scared you're gonna be on the wrong side when scum NK us dude?

Purple Nurple read. Go.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

since mm4 is silent, can i interest you guys in voting Chikoritas? I really don't like how he was calling me scum since beggining, but only now tried start wagon and i yet to see case on me (shitposting in pregame and "i don't like that post about Clash of Gods" i don't consider good reasons at this stage of game)

Can I interest you in bussing your buddy?

There's a shit ton of wagons and no one actually talking.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

PLing mastina is not a scummy position eityer

i never said it's scummy, i just gave my reasoning for vote on them

...?
are you wanting to PL them then.

chesskid: honestly? fair.

pedit: still town.

no, i just think it's good starting point as they are null read for me and some things pings in what they posted

Yes the ever inevitable "pings" where you don't call us scum but say you "ping"read us is definitely not scumreading us. Those must be Town pings you're referring to /sarcasm

You just want someone else to champion our mislynch.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

Reck ... you really need to read the rules and the Akira role post thoroughly. If Akira visits scum he'll collect an arcana from them and leave them a calling card. They go to the metaverse for some phases after that and then Dave can out the guilty to us and let us handle it later or he gets an unstoppable vig shot against them the following night (presumably if he vigs, he's not visiting someone else to collect arcana and get a cop result though, so like ... choices).

~Drixx

[RationalNumbers]

I think most of chesskid's last 6-8 posts are town motivated. Possible yellow flag if one of RN/PN turn up scum but very minor.

PN is almost certainly scum.

~Drixx

[RationalNumbers]

@Drixx -- Alerts on Slack are bugged.

And agreed. Been working on something and wanted Drixx's thoughts.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

The Case for Purple Nurple

Horrible intro -- In Persona 5, reporting for duty is something the evil aligned director tries to do to stop the Phantom Thieves. If there is a traitor (and if there is a traitor it is likely Kise) this is probably a crumb to them.

Pre hydra ISO Mastina dropping a read list She did this too as scum in the bastard game I played with her in. She does it to look like she cares and is reading and forming opinions but secretly she probably just RNG's it. They almost never match any sort of reality or reasoning and in this case ignoring is the right way to go about it.

ChikoritasInAction
Leonshade
Creature
Ellibereth
Ramcius
Yume
Kise
Varsoon
davesaz
WhemeStar
Mulch

--- ABOVE THIS LINE HAS POSTED
PenguinPower << Didn't post by the time of this post.
Alchemist21 << Didn't post by the time of this post.
Drixx << Did post by the time of this post.
Smocaine << Did post by the time of this post.
ActionDan << Didn't post by the time of this post.
Maki Harukawa << Had posted
Lil Uzi Vert << Hadn't posted

--- Below this line has posted
xRECKONERx
Chesskid3
keyenpeydee

Explain how Mastina has some players who haven't posted and then has us who has posted and Maki Harukawa in the cluster of those who haven't.

I'd expect an honest mistake but mastina never corrected it. However when I came in I first thought "Hey mastina mentioned she wants to get lynched I'll let this go" I was going to bring this up because I thought she was claiming something pro town. Through talking with Drixx I realized...Hey wait a minute she's just scum. She's not town trying to replicate her scum meta getting lynched.

However Mastina has a scum tell in that she almost always follows the rule of three in her read walls without fail in her "random" things. This meant I needed to keep an eye on key and chess and xReckonerX for one of them surely is scum. However with the post 603 keyenpeydee gets a pass due to wagon composition and Reckoner asks why. Similar to what mastina does. At that point xReckonerX was likely talking with Mastina. I kinda am trying to be more "ambiguous" and fluid with my reads based on advice from a friend not in this game and not regarding this game so I played it a bit close to the vest even with Drixx. Not Chara (who I'm sure of for different reasons) I wanted to see those two specifically talk about and see who would dodge the question.

Through different conversations with people I scumread I realized that they were probably having Not Chara be the power role because they didn't attach a town or scum read they just wanted the conversation to stop.

Eddie's "reads list"

{Creature} - me and mastina both agree he's obv town
{wheme, chikoritas} - former's town as shit and i'm not letting this be a game where he's mislynched. i am solid on that. latter mastina obvtown
{leonshade} - mastina obvtown that i'm slightly less confident in than chikoritas, I think I townean them though
{yume} - a miller claim from a person I don't think would fake miller
{varsoon} - not even going to try and justify this
{luv} - of course he knows I am decent at metaing him, so he will play to his meta, but still town lean for now
{chess, elli} - but stop being annoying, because 274 but I'm still going to write this post anyways because I'm really really bored and I think a good amount of players know I'm a tone reader so my reads can flip anyways, sincere apologies
-- NULL LINE --
{mulch} - no read yet, I expect to see you play to your town meta because I believe I can read you so let's see
{ramcius} - mostly #126 for town, but creature stuff is eh
{dave, reck} - meh
{penguin, alchemist, actiondan, kise} - haven't posted and I don't know any of them to be players who would be likely to lurk out early game as scum
-- NULL LINE --
{smocaine} - 185 is reverse lamist
{maki} - bleh, 149 feels like setting up an easy mislynch on a mislynchable player (whemestar), but this could flip after reading page 12
{drixx} - 265 is gross.
{Key} - scummy scumbutt, mastina has them as lock scum and I scum leaned them from readthrough so no complaints atm


Worth noting even if the reads are genuine Mastina or Eddie suggested vigging Yume. When suggesting that scum need to get a certain number of deaths. Of a person both people read as TOWN. At least they fixed their mistake of all the people who hadn't posted together are in one cluster this time. The main problem with this is their reads are "too similar" meaning that they don't disagree on a single town or scum read. Drixx and I disagreed for a bit on Varsoon and how he was handling things. Drixx also disagrees with me on Creature. This is too neat for a hydra.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

And this is just the start.

I am at work and I will do more later.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

Persona 5

The Police are enemies to the Phantom Thieves of Hearts and they are hunting them in Tokyo. The SIU Director, Sae Niijima and Goro Akechi are working for the Police.

There is a certain officer who has that phrasing. I don't have my notes in front of me at work.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

HURT: Chesskid3

Upon further reflection of the earlier conversation, I don't find it at all believable that he would not realize that we went and figured out what our Arcana might give Dave, and therefore understand that I was signaling Dave to get it tonight and ensure he gets it. Instead he tried to throw shade and suggest I was giving Dave sub-optimal advice.

Given that we are already as outed as we can get, I'm going to just get really specific here.

@davesaz:

You really should collect us tonight. Our arcana will improve your investigative ability. My personal best guess is that you will go from getting a binary "Scum/Not Scum" result to also getting role information. That strikes me as pretty powerful, so I wouldn't be surprised if you have to choose one or the other. There are some other things it could potentially do, which I judge less likely, but still possible. Like bypass Godfather for example.

Obviously you aren't going to get all the arcana, even in a game this size. I'm fairly sure the general idea of what ours does is pretty freaking strong though, so umm... yeah.

~Drixx

[RationalNumbers]

Wait you found out what your arcana gives Dave? Or is this flavor speculation?

We went and investigated what the arcana we give dave gives in the game. I mean ... anyone who has played or even just goes and reads will already know what it is. Our Arcana gives extra information upon analysis. So it therefore follows that Dave, having an investigate (analyze) ability, will gain either more choice in what to investigate, or if it's going to be very flavor exact, he'll just get more information from each investigation. Information wins mafia games.

So you might want to actually read the game (you voted for us and have a barely existent ISO, so I know you haven't read the game) before you go any further.

~D

[RationalNumbers]

there is almost no power on fucking earth that is worth skipping a BP copshot. especially because I think you're speculating as hell what tour arcana does since nobody else has claimed to know and I sure as hell don't know

It's really good thing that our Arcana is described as "Adding additional information to investigations" then. If the flavor is tight and it wasn't weakened for balance, then it seems very likely that we make his investigation return more results than just the binary alignment indication. And stop saying BP. He's deathproof. Everyone knows it. You are very quickly earning a scum read for what appears to be you trying to pretend you have everyone's best interests at heart.

Smocaine, why RN, and then in your pedit what does "I think this towns" mean?

Drixx, i'd like to see your case on me when you have the time.

and while adding a rolecop is more powerful, the utility of a cop isn't improved as considerably as you're saying here, i think.

I have an open invitation for people to look at your ISO and see if they see what I did. So far one person has responded and said they didn't. We have time. The increasing frequency with which you are displaying concern about what case I have against you isn't helping. It's almost like you know for sure we're town, know we are going to die and you want to force me to post something you can try and argue against before that happens. But you know me and how I work, especially in hydra. I put a case up when I've done the work and I cannot find any holes to poke in it.

As for your assertion that Dave gaining more information when he investigates isn't a "considerable" improvement... that seems pretty bad. If it works the way flavor would suggest, then it makes something he's already going to do result in more information. There is no world where town players should not want dave to have our arcana.

~D

[RationalNumbers]

Does it seem far fetched that scum have a role that can deal with BP conftown cop if he targets them?

This is total horseshit from Drixxx. I townread you man. You were supposed to be the chosen one!

Wow that's quite an OMGUS. I didn't even vote you. You went from townreading me to assuming our role is the counter you expect to exist to dave? Really?

~D

[RationalNumbers]

you're a slimy disingenuous little man and you have my pity

Daaaamn this is NFL again.

Scumread you -- You insult player scumreading you.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

That's not fucking Omgus you've been shown in thread why your plan is bad and you continue to push it via appeal to dave

No ... two people who have been scumread are trying to argue that an arcana which "adds additional information when you investigate" isn't going to be a very good addition and should be snagged while it's available. No sane person would call extra info upon investigating "bad".

Also, because you apparently didn't read it: "Faking Death (Enabled Deathproof): While this ability is enabled, you cannot die." <--- While he has Deathrpoof, he CANNOT die. So unless you want to say the mod has outright lied to the game, there isn't some scum role which is going to kill him when he visits. It seems almost certain that there must be some mechanic that can turn his deathproof off, but that's not what you argued.

You're trying to make arguments and you clearly haven't even taken the time to evaluate the information you have. Your speculations are worse than worthless because of that.

~Drixx

P.S. - Not fighting with you about this. If you want to be stubborn and value winning a pissing match over winning the game, then go do that elsewhere. There's absolutely no rational thought process that leads to it being a BAD idea for Dave to pick up an arcana which is described in the wiki as "adds additional information when you investigate". You're trying to sell some really fucking bad shit.

[RationalNumbers]

you're a slimy disingenuous little man and you have my pity

If you aren't mature enough to play a game where people will disagree with you and you cannot have an argument with someone on the merits but have to resort to this sort of statement ... you shouldn't be here on this site or any site playing mafia. There are clearly a litany of more important things you should be doing.

@Alisae: Can you like ... put your foot down and take control of your game please?

[RationalNumbers]

The quality of player on this site has really tanked since I joined nearly three years ago. I have more players I think need to be killed just to punish them for breaking site rules and abhorrent behavior than I have scum reads I am sure of. No wonder some of the best players I know are having a max exodus.

~D

[RationalNumbers]

Chesskid joined in 2010

Join date is not relevant to the average quality and likeability of the players on this site. Somewhere along the way, people decided that personally attacking a demeaning others (usually when they cannot make a rational argument against that person) was not only acceptable but something they should do often and have free liberty to do, despite there being clear rules against it. These people have no shame about it and in fact go out of their way to be as unpleasant as they can ... and they are driving away many of the very skilled players who were masters of dismantling your play without ever having to say anything about you personally.

In other words ... they are a cancer and should be removed.

~D

[RationalNumbers]

@Elli - Go for it. The only people scum reading us are really pretty scummy themselves, so I am pretty sure that as outed as we are, we're going to eat an early death. If you want to argue that we are more mislynchable than I think, then you are just adding to the reason why Dave should visit us. He'll find out where a Phantom Thief and be able to outright confirm us (which then ensures we die after that), and he'll gain an arcana which (according to the flavor of the game) increases the amount of info he will obtain when investigating.

There might be BETTER arcanas out there, but there's only one other arcana outed. So collecting ours improves his investigative abilities plus conftowns us fully which forces scum to kill us. That's a pretty significant utility. I am fairly sure that given the raw chance of him finding scum (and given his admission that he isn't keeping up with the game, I don't see how he will have much better than just random chance odds) is low enough that the utility of getting the improvement from us plus making us conftown (if we don't eat night 1 kill) is very strong utility for night one. Like ... an added benefit of us being conftown if the scum stupidly let us live is everyone will know and we can actually get traction on our scumreads and generate vote counts that will be useful to the VCA crowd later by pushing wagons against people and additionally forcing people to take stances. There's a lot of freedom and utility from being conftown.

So you should have one hell of a whopper of an argument. But feel free. What should dave do instead, and why, and how does it stack up against the utility I just outlined?


@NC - Don't misrepresent me. I said that I could see the additional information when investigating being changed to additional options of investigation (for example: Role cop instead of alignment check) for the purposes of game balance. I don't have any reason to prefer that over the arcana just making the investigate do more than alignment check. I mean ... he's obviously meant to be a central and fairly powerful role, and it's not like this is a Varsoon game and I have enough experience to have a good and possibly actually precise guess at how it is balanced. There's a whole load of ways it could be balanced.

[RationalNumbers]

"don't insult me" -Drixx
"chesskid is like cancer" -Also Drixx

Please don't put words I my mouth. If you want to include yourselves in the group of people who are driving very good players away ... that's your call. You are the one deciding you belong there.

More properly, it strikes me as more accurate to say that the constant ad hominem attacks are bad play, bad for the game, bad for the site, and the whole mentality of "I will be a complete asshole and say things to people on a forum that would get me knocked out if I said them in real life face to face, and I will do so all the time, and I will be completely unrepentant about it." is what I find specifically cancerous.

So ... feel free to include yourself in that if you want. I didn't put any specific person in there. I just described a general type of behavior. And I stand by that assertion.

~D

[RationalNumbers]

also purple when you come back please don't give me more of an aneurysm from this game rational is really fucking town.

Drixx I have some thoughts on the whole arcana thing (like why your plan might not be best plan) but I'll only talk about it if you want to talk about it.

in post game when rational endgames you I want a formal apology. deal?

Can whichever head that wrote this do so again and sign it? I want signature fodder.

~D

[RationalNumbers]

you're a slimy disingenuous little man and you have my pity

This is indefensible.

I will be a complete asshole and say things to people on a forum that would get me knocked out if I said them in real life face to face, and I will do so all the time

Did you know that assault is actually just as much of a crime if the victim called you slimy, little, strange, or yes, even disingenuous?

Well if not, there's a fun slimy little fact for ya!

You must be the only player on this playerlist who doesn't know that I'm crippled. I couldn't knock you out if I wanted to. Take your internet tough guy insults out into the real world, and someone who isn't me is going to knock you out. You only do it because you are behind the safety of relative anonymity and most mods would rather do nothing about the behavior than have to find a replacement.

~D

[RationalNumbers]

@Varsoon: You're making it really difficult for me here. I don't want to say something that will make you feel bad, but you're putting me a vig list because I'm thinking through the setup and speculating? Please don't make me explain why I do that every game. It will necessarily involve talking about a couple of your games and then you will feel bad and I don't want to make you feel bad.

[RationalNumbers]

I’m not playing low effort on purpose. This is just how I play. I did scum read Mulch earlier because I found that all he was really doing before he blowed up was just asking why people scum read him and not really hunting. His tone felt like someone who was afraid of being caught for the wrong reasons and his blow up didn’t encourage me to think otherwise. Maybe I should’ve seen it coming but I honestly never seen him this mad other then a post-game and his anger there felt justified unlike here.

I dislike this cause I don't think that getting angry at early scumreads is something that Uzi should think is scum indicative, essp for me, and why they thought I wasn't scumhunting. But I will give them a chance to explain

LUV if I had to guess is town. Other people can sort him after we're NK'd though Still following my rule of don't put a read to LUV. I'm leaving that to Drixx.

-- Still Math

@drixx then

if I were to reveal as IC, would you agree luv is scum?

Why ask a hypothetical that is impossible?

Also ... Math wasn't the one who responded to your gladiate. I did. So the whole "That reaction is scum because Math would know it was fake" is moot.

I appreciate the rest of your wall of drivel though. You might actually convince scum we could possibly be mislynched and then we get to play more than day one. Thanks.

~D

P.S. - you can tell who is posting because unlike most hydras, we sign our posts.

[RationalNumbers]

i am 60/40 rational is town at this point, but i think drixx is going to continue to be an insufferable overconfident jackass and math is probably not gonna be much better, so meh.

Nice try Purple.

LUV and I are like Legos forming that block.

--Math

Oh and I was going to finish my case you but friends said I should like hang out and I had a few beers. Was pretty sure if no one could understand sober Math drunk Math would be insane. Expect more tonight. Because you are very much scum.

[RationalNumbers]

Furthermore you know how much I hate townblocks but in this game they are needed.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

B

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S

k

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e

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l

a

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K

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y

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!

(

F

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Thanks Brian!!

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

Scum are {Mulch, Kise} + some subset of:

PenguinPower
Yume
Leonshade
Chesskid3
Smocaine
keyenpeydee

I'm drained and don't have the energy or motivation to convince you people through words right now.
but I implore you all to at least listen to the first two after I flip.
and to just maybe listen to the rest after they're right.

I have a little time and I'm willing to chat with some of my townreads for a bit but I'm not in the mood atm to have a talk with someone who can't assume I'm acting in good faith for the duration of the conversation. I'm frustrated enough by some stuff outside of this game.

So now I need to be a nice guy and back off.

Kise should just chill and let em breathe, you suffocating em with all your drama. Elli has enough going on. Take a time out and talk about other people for a while, you've got time Kise.....

Nah that's not gonna happen. Because until you make a good case to refute me, you are STILL so FULL OF SHIT!!!!


I got a joke for you!

Maybe if your arm wasn't so far up YOUR ASS, you wouldn't be so BACKDD UP

Get it??


BECAUSE YOURE FULL OF SHIT!!!!

why are you scumreading Kise and Leon?

I'm not scumreading leon i'm just not townreading him.

All of Kise's posts on page 46 were absolutely horrible.
None of it sounded close to genuine or well motivated.
Too tired to go back for specifics but I remember the part where he talks about LUV to be especially bad.

Also a much smaller point that I know is a reach in a vacuum but I believe it so:
just pretend for a second you know that scum knew who akira is okay.
and go back and read the post he made however long ago about it.
sounds like scum speculating about info they already know yeah?

You wanna play pretend? Thn how about, you

TAKE YA ASS TO COMIC CON WITH A RED CAPE ON

You NOT the hero! You are NOT saving the town with your bs, and you for DAMN SURE, aren't gonna get saved from getting that ass whooped!


We don't have to pretend you don't got shit on me. It's a fact. I operate in the real world, and if yoi wanna play make believe, then maybe you should take your legos and go play in the sandbox with chess and Drixx




DRIXX IM JUST BEING PLAYFUL

CALM FHE FUCK DOWN

creature is my updated list semi on the same page as yours still or have you gone off on your own too.

Why? That's an actually question I'd like answered. Why do you need validation from Creature? If he disagrees with you then he's his own man and an independent player like everyone else. You keep sucking up, trying to be cute around him and it's starting to get a little disturbing in here

You look like someone who's scared to be buddyless. You arready fucked up saying chess isn't obvtown and Dan isn't here to posse up with you either. You just gon have to come see me by yourself

Come catch these hands son

Just playing my ass.

We scum read E.

So far we seem to (I need to double check here) seem to agree on every scumread. And yet Drixx lives in the land of makebelieve?

Why the shade then?

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

And for your precious "hydra meta" of myself and mastina having reads too similar, hydras faking dissonance such as you and math disagreeing with me (particularly lines like "I'm starting to agree with Drixx") is not only a thing but a rather common one. So, fack off.

No. Not backing off.

{Your hydra, Ramicus, E, Not Chara, XReckonerX } are all a denizen of evil that needs to die. Later tonight after Shadowrun expect me to layout every move I believe the team did.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

I’m not playing low effort on purpose. This is just how I play. I did scum read Mulch earlier because I found that all he was really doing before he blowed up was just asking why people scum read him and not really hunting. His tone felt like someone who was afraid of being caught for the wrong reasons and his blow up didn’t encourage me to think otherwise. Maybe I should’ve seen it coming but I honestly never seen him this mad other then a post-game and his anger there felt justified unlike here.

I dislike this cause I don't think that getting angry at early scumreads is something that Uzi should think is scum indicative, essp for me, and why they thought I wasn't scumhunting. But I will give them a chance to explain

LUV if I had to guess is town. Other people can sort him after we're NK'd though Still following my rule of don't put a read to LUV. I'm leaving that to Drixx.

-- Still Math

@drixx then

if I were to reveal as IC, would you agree luv is scum?

Why ask a hypothetical that is impossible?

stop being insufferable

Stop being insufferable, trying to lynch my townreads, and trying to steer the conversation away from my scumreads.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

so i really liked RN's case on mastina tho

what about it did you like? it wasn't much of a case.

Drixx, could you do me a favour and not say i've misrepresented you when my post literally contained the question "did i misunderstand?"
i don't understand the difference between what you said and what i said. the fact that there are multiple ways the role could be balanced doesn't change the fact that one of your ideas about it was the one i described.
and i wish you would have responded to the other half of my post that wasn't about your role utility. even just to acknowledge its existence.

i'll finish my ISOs now. probably.

Elli: sorry, i meant to chat with you but i had to take care of something. while Kise's posting on that page wasn't exactly enthusing to read, i'm not sure i hate the sentiment of putting pressure on a slot as someone replaces in, even if it's not something i'd personally find useful.

Kise: could you answer [post]1305[post] for me?

VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert

pedit: bye. :<

You mean because I said it wasn't done lolol.

Sobriety is a thing required for mafia.

Pray tell how would you chat with E???

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

trouble with social cues? MS users? Never!!!

...That's a reference to me being an Aspie which Mastina knows about. She was just trying to get us mislynched and now that she can't she is going to "come around" to us being town and then night kill us.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

You know what would be cool?
If I could come to this game and slam down on something that isn't a meta-discussion of site politics, policy lynches, flavorspec, etc.

Like, holy shit, I'm having a nightmare of a time engaging with this game.
If I was a vig, I wouldn't know who the fuck to shoot:
Rational Numbers coming out the gate with play that's so awkwardly setup spec and appealing to davsto
Purple hitting stage with the whole 'my role is so bad' crap then walling up to Rational
Chesskid for being Chesskid and my own beef there
Yume for the weird claim and how much everyone else has painted it
Mulch for the mulching 2017

I also don't like Chikorita, but that might actually be one of my most informed READS rather than me just hating someone's game approach and wishing I could sort everything through fire and flips.

I. Am. Not. Mastina. I did not say our role is bad, and mastina hasn't posted since pregame.

to everyone - don't discuss mastina's claim btw. I clarified something with alisae, mastina misunderstood our role. you will see why when we mass claim or if I'm forced to claim. it is questionably quite weak, but it is nothing like miller/other neg util

.

....Ooooooh you mean you gave me more for my wall tonight and how you're full of shit. Please just stop. At this point you're so scummy it would be more beneficial for your entire scum team to instant bus right now.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

just got home, too tired. ill get to this tomorrow, soz. i love u math <3

Whelp I got dragged away for RL partly through mine. Ramicus is obv scum trying to distract from the discussion.

Scared you're gonna be on the wrong side when scum NK us dude?

Purple Nurple read. Go.

--Math

I am waffling on their alignment and have been for a while, btw. Boon pointed out I like to tunnel town I find annoying d1 even if its unintentional. Usually I either hit scum or break out of the tunnel though. Right now, I am waiting on mastina to answer me in our private topic (can't say pt this game lmao).

....So in other words you're claiming to have fake tunneled me fake gladiated me fake made an argument we were scum despite the fact we are more obvious Town than ever and who the hell is Boon?

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

you got it, Math. i was talking about our scum PT.
thrilling.

i know your case isn't done. unless you're telling me Reckoner already knows the parts of your Nurple case you haven't posted via telepathy, my point about him agreeing with a case that isn't much still stands.

Tell me your "reads" on

Purple
E
And
Ramicus.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

no. i'm done being nice to you. you don't get to command me if you refuse to engage with anything i'm saying.

I did engage and respond. I even quote the posts. Wtf?

--Math

@Ramicus -- You think so?

Then help us "bus" Purple and when Dave hopefully confirms us as Town then you'll hopefully repeat the same with E and then repeat the same with Not Chara then yourself.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

Nurple is a townread, i have no read on Ramcius, and Elli is someone i'm working on right now.
sorry for snapping.

pedit: i suppose it was because you didn't say anything about reckoner. and this game it feels like i can't speak to either hydra head without being what feels like purposefully misunderstood.

XReckonerX is scum. They were in my case before nothing has changed.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

so i really liked RN's case on mastina tho

what about it did you like? it wasn't much of a case.

Drixx, could you do me a favour and not say i've misrepresented you when my post literally contained the question "did i misunderstand?"
i don't understand the difference between what you said and what i said. the fact that there are multiple ways the role could be balanced doesn't change the fact that one of your ideas about it was the one i described.
and i wish you would have responded to the other half of my post that wasn't about your role utility. even just to acknowledge its existence.

i'll finish my ISOs now. probably.

Elli: sorry, i meant to chat with you but i had to take care of something. while Kise's posting on that page wasn't exactly enthusing to read, i'm not sure i hate the sentiment of putting pressure on a slot as someone replaces in, even if it's not something i'd personally find useful.

Kise: could you answer [post]1305[post] for me?

VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert

pedit: bye. :<

You mean because I said it wasn't done lolol.

Sobriety is a thing required for mafia.

Pray tell how would you chat with E???

--Math

if you're scumreading reckoner, why can't we talk about him jumping on the nurple wagon from a case you've said isn't complete? i find the vote suspicious.
your response was instead about how the case was weak because it wasn't done. nothing to do with reckoner, just jabs at me.
if you think he's bussing that's fine, but i don't remember you saying so. i might've missed it.

I don't.

Being demonstrated to have fake reads, a fake PR claim, with a fake case on us, which came coincidentally after we were pushing who we were pushing.

And yes I have made jabs at you? << Forgive me the beer must still be in my body as I don't know what you're thinking I am not responding to.

Imho I think he is. But if I am wrong in my reads and he isn't bussing he is still helping lynch scum so hooray.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

no. i'm done being nice to you. you don't get to command me if you refuse to engage with anything i'm saying.

I did engage and respond. I even quote the posts. Wtf?

--Math

@Ramicus -- You think so?

Then help us "bus" Purple and when Dave hopefully confirms us as Town then you'll hopefully repeat the same with E and then repeat the same with Not Chara then yourself.

--Math

i never buss, i have honor

on serious note, you fight quite a while already, but i see no real result, PN backing out of fight after some questionable gambits is weird, you holding on same people since day start (or even before day started, i'm not even sure anymore), do you guys so sure in your early reads?

also, i'm considering possibility you being gf or some other undetectable role, or you can shut off something in Dave, if he visits you. Telling your arcana is important purely on wiki is another questionable gamble, we have no clue how arcana's work or if they are like in game and not remade by Ali (and i expressed my opinion they are Dreaming God abilities, which as role PM indicates are different for real/Meta and Dave have no clue what they will do)

Oh honey. If you didn't think I didn't crumb the name of our arcana already to Dave, prepare to pray to the porcelain gods because that is where your crap will end up.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

This back and forth really needs to stop and I say that as a self aware person who has been participating in it.

I'm going to have limited access for the next 48 hours. Let's try to get back on track, but if not when I return expect caps rage.

Meanwhile....

Vote keyebpedeee replacement

Tick Tock for content buddy

Oh you mean now I shouldn't have discussion with my scumreads so people see their scumminess while I am getting dressed and heading out the door for Shadowrun?

Hell no.

I will get that case done tonight barring the most extreme RL fuckery.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

Hmm tangent time

After some meta diving, I have math explicitly saying he crumbs as scum, and Drixx as scum for trying to become conftown through setup mechanics in at least two games as scum. Namely, Civ mafia and yume's upick. Does this affect anything?

You're trying

really

hard to push us as scum. While you are doing other things, you keep coming back to me like a dog to a chew toy. You just can't help but come back over and over. It's sort of amusing though. The more you try and make people doubt us, despite our very good crumbs that everyone missed until Mulch outed Dave and we pointed them out, the more likely it is that Dave will feel it's worth checking us to confirm us. In the meantime, you may want to check out SU2 (the game where your partner wasted legitimately like 100 hours of my life by saying she would actually go through the evidence of the game, but was always going to just lynch my slot because her pride is such that she would rather lose with me than ever risk losing TO me). Ironically, that was one of the main reasons I talked to Nahdia and replaced out of Civ. It's kind of disingenuous of you to ascribe anything to me in Civ mafia. I replaced out so early, you don't know what I would have done since my original plan (which required my own death to set up a teammate for the win) went out the window.

But I mean ... when you are scum and trying to undercut a slot you know can roll your team at their best you gonna be reaching quite a lot.


I also find chesskid's scare tactics suggesting we can turn off his deathproof to be kind of amusing. Especially since he didn't actually think of that on his own, but got it from me. He obviously hadn't read Dave's role PM because his first suggestion was that we wanted Dave to visit us so he would die. I actually had to point out the actual thing Dave has to be afraid of. And while it's just speculation, I would expect that scum did NOT start out knowing Dave was Akira, and they probably either have a specific role or perhaps a factional ability to strip his deathproof. Like just purely from a setup standpoint and trying to balance someone being deathproof, it strikes me as much more likely that you give scum the ability to strip it, but they gotta figure out who to target. It penalizes mass claim strategies too, which is a good thing. Having to get the deathproof player to visit one particular slot as the mechanic by which they get stripped of deathproof seems like a really good way to have the deathproof slot end up in the endgame basically guaranteed.

I mean ... I could be wrong. Speculation is speculation. Town/Akira being punished for outing Akira via scum having the ability to actively strip deathproof seems so much more likely than scum needing Akira to visit a specific slot to lose it. I would think it's probably like ... an order of magnitude more likely at least.

While I'm thinking about it though: Still waiting for you to repeat your "I'm so super sure Drixx+Math Hydra is scum that I am demanding your apology ahead of time" post with a signature. This hydra needs signature fodder. If you can't attach your gigantic (from my observation thus far) ego to it, then that calls into question whether you actually believe it or if you're just pushing us to try and keep us from being able to effectively lead the town.

I'm kind of bemused at the past couple days. Especially since I'm pretty sure Math will be posting a "here's who is scum and here's the plays they've made so far" post sometime tonight. I'm really excited about that. It reminded me of a game I played with Varsoon.

@Varsoon: You remember that game? You know the one where your scum team had a role cop and had found the cop, so you faked a guilty on him and the wagon built so fast I accidentally hammered? And then the next day you and a scum partner both claimed miller because the actual cop showed up in twilight and outed one of you as guilty, and so you did the counterclaiming because one of you was doomed anyway and you wanted the other to be viewed as telling the truth? Remember how I pointed out exactly everything you guys were doing to the town? Man ... that was great. Except the town lynched me for unintentionally hammering the cop, even though you were the one who gave the fake guilty.

It's always neat when you just sort of see exactly what scum are doing to try and manipulate the situation, wouldn't you agree? I hope you'll be watching closely for Math's post.


@all - Please do remember that PN stepped in and saved Mulch, despite quite a lot of people wanting to lynch him, and people making a legitimate point that his blowup ate looks pretty fake compared to other instances of him doing that. Pretty sure that's an important piece of data.

~Drixx

[RationalNumbers]

I didn't see that push coming from town-RationaleNumbers because they would've been aware of how heavily walling up against PurpleNurple early would negatively affect the entire game, but they've decided to do it anyway.

Actually I went out of my way to put out my hand and avoid that whole thing. You conveniently left that out. Then the PN slot began pushing us as scum, and not in a rational way that actually looks legitimate and feels real. It is a textbook example of "I want to say X is scum, so let me go look for something which I can say is evidence of that" instead of an organic read that grew up out of evaluating play. It strikes me as exceptionally shitty that their slot is probably scum, because I'd rather have had a chance to work together with Mastina and maybe bury the shit you're referring to.

~Drixx

[RationalNumbers]

Rational's town. they're town, Drixx and Math both have convinced me. i have no angle to engage either of them on but they are. i started writing a post complaining about Drixx's attempts to mechanical clear but i've realized it isn't worth it. i'm never lynching that hydra. maybe after Math's post i can begin to untangle their bad reads, though.

Figuring out the game setup and mechanics and using them for the most optimal utility is like one of my defining traits. There's a whole load of town games you can point to where I do it or Cerb and I do it in hydra. That makes it basically a guarantee that if you go find a scum game of mine you're going to see it there also. Like ... it would be really terrible play on my part if I left out one of the most defining characteristics of how I play when I draw scum, wouldn't it?

I mean ... hell. You can go back to my first proper (non-newbie) game on site, SMITE, and I used a mechanics claim to convince people I was a 3rd party with a win con that benefitted town.

I laughed out loud when I saw PN try to casually suggest that ME going for a mechanical clear is a scum tell. My wife wanted to know what was so funny.

~Drixx

[RationalNumbers]

@Not Chara: Smocaine was the one that asked me about my Chikorita read, iirc.

@RationalDrixx: Absolutely remember that game and there was no way I should've gotten away with that. That said, this was after flips and other mod-confirmed info had come to light to inform a bit more. Right now, I don't quite get how you're playing this informed given the gamestate and it makes me really wary of your slot feigning its usual town rhetoric to scummy ends.

P-EDIT: Apologies, I know you offered an out/avoidance route, but the fact is that it still takes two to wall up against each other. It's really hard for me to read alignment into this, too, so it really doesn't help.

It's absolutely true that I'm making quite a few assumptions. Thing is, I've admitted each assumption and explained why I rate it as more probable than alternatives. It's very possible that Alisae and observers are laughing their ass off and my assumptions are all totally awful and as far as possible away from the actual setup as possible. Obviously I'm going to stick with my assumptions unless someone comes along and gives reasoning to re-evaluate or to prefer other conclusions. I suspect you are reading my confidence in my assumptions as much more than it is.

I'm convinced that PN slot is scum. Math made some solid points about Mastina's posts. There's also basically a very trivially small chance that Mastina would not catch what the hydra partner supposedly caught and got clarification about. So the slot goes from "Woe is me, we have to be lynched because our role is so bad and even being night killed would seriously hurt the town" to "Yeah Mastina just didn't understand. Forget that she said that." with a fake gladiate thrown in for shits and giggles.

Then there's the very consistent scum tell of starting with a conclusion and then going to look for anything to support that conclusion while ignoring everything else. To the point where he's off looking for OTHER GAMES to support the supposed "read", because he can't support it from this game.

You know me man. When I'm sure I've got scum, I'm relentless. I'm sorry it's making you uncomfortable though. That sucks.

~Drixx

[RationalNumbers]

You've described the responsible uses of gladiate if it's just a role in the game. I suppose a lyncher could be given gladiate to use if they find the person they need to lynch. I'm sure there could be more creative variations. Unfortunately most of the time I've seen it used is someone gets mad and pops it as a "hero/zero vig" sort of thing. If used irresponsibly it can be a really harsh swing against town.

That just makes me want to think of a really different twist on it and put it in a game.

~D

[RationalNumbers]

If you check earlier, Ramicus' vote on Chikoritas ain't doing shit in the VC in post 1401:
ChikoritasInAction - 1 ( Ramcius ) L- 12

However, when Ramicus voted for RationalNumbers, as shown in the VC in post 575:
RationalNumbers - 1 ( Ramcius ) L- 11

So, it's gotta do with Chikoritas?
So, y'know, add ANOTHER point against them--they've got a unique voting mechanic that they haven't claimed, apparently. Or they did claim and I forgot and I'm full of shit.

@mod: Can you please verify the vote counts??

I don't know of anything that would make us hated or require less votes to lynch.

{{I am sorry but RL crept up I just got home and don't have enough time to type up my notes. I plan on it asap on Sunday though as well as catching up. }}

-- Math

[RationalNumbers]

Oh that's in regard to Chikoritas -- yeah that is odd...

I will ask Drixx when I get a hold of him but that's really weird.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

Premises
1. 22 players has around 4-6 scum and/or 3P players.
2. The role PM for Akira is accurate (Source: Not bastard game)
3. Players cannot change alignments. (Source: Not bastard game)
4. A town hydra is extremely unlikely to agree on 21 reads of all players. There will be at least one point of disagreement.
5. A player demonstrated to have lied more than twice is much more likely to be scum than town.
6. Group scum either know Davesaz is town at the start or they don’t. I find it unlikely scum wouldn’t tell their buddies.


Conclusion 1a - There is likely a 3P and/or traitor and/or godfather of some kind.
Reason 1: The results on the public role PM say “Conspiracy or ‘Not Conspiracy’” in the Alignment section. It does not say “Conspiracy or Town”. This means one of two things:
A) Alisae did not want to confirm the other players as town OR
B) There is a third party/traitor/godfather.
Assume A is true: In Mafia Games, regardless of intent, the pattern is that people generally discount a godfather or innocenting mechanic here unless close to LYLO. With Persona 5, a main theme (from what I have read) is that discovering self and discovering people is important for the protagonist.
This means it is more likely that there is a 3P/traitor/godfather mechanic.

Conclusion 1b – Mastina’s reads were faked in Reads list
Neg utility claim: Complaint about neg utility,Demand to be lynched,Complaints about RNG utility,Wants to lynch
Assume Mastina had an arcana: Then from the sample role PM she’d know Davesaz is town.
Davesaz is in the middle of the reads list. Nowhere near a town read.
In post 180, Mastina has reads on players who haven’t posted mixed with people who had posted. See 1272 for more details.

Conclusion 1c – Assuming Mastina faked her reads (point 2) is it similar to town reads or scum reads? (Ignoring the Eddie hydra as the Eddie hydra was not in play at this point.)
Town listing same hydra

In this town Mastina posting all the people who did not post yet are together. Then others are above or below as Mastina read that introduction.
Put that in contrast to where it was before. Hence my main point is “Mastina’s reads list is faked” 1272 is in regards to Mastina’s meta not Eddie Cane’s.

Conlusion 1d – Eddie Cane’s response to the votes being weird does not address the original concerns and attacks me and what I should now. (Implying I am a scumread of theirs)
“I joined a hydra on request, I don't fucking know the flavour to do that shit and you know that.”
 Eddie Cane and I have not talked outside of games. I would not know whether or not you know the flavor or not. This is an attempt to make me look like I should have some kind of knowledge there would be no way for me to have.
“That's how I enter every game I "sub" into btw, I think the last example is RC's large (I was town) if you want to go check that out. The one before elemental trinity, I can't remember the name but you were in that game math, the one with cass and td.”
 The one with cass and TD was elemental trinity and you did not use that phrase. You did something with saving people and your role PM had something similar Here And between using the different game and your entrance referring directly to your role PM as an established habit, it is more likely this “reporting for duty” applies your role PM in some manner. Furthermore, I don’t think you’d not look up the wiki entry or something for your own role. So you said Mastina would handle this….This is more important later on.
“Our reads are always similar, again, look at the game we literally just played together with our hydra and you where we BOTH scumread gerry and osuka, me catching osuka / her gerry / us both agreeing with each other, we BOTH lock towned most of the game, luv was the only slot she questioned and I towned him on meta, we had perfect synergy.”
 Ignoring the fact you discount your perfect synergy argument where you “disagree on LUV”. There are 22 players. I would expect you to disagree somewhere. This to me implies mastina just either A) doesn’t care and isn’t playing or B) Is scum and doesn’t want to address that point. Yes, I expect a hydra to have a lot of similarity if they are actually talking (which removes point A) but not 100% similarity.
This attacks the conclusion that Eddie Cane is scum. The original premise was NOT Eddie Cane is scum. The conclusion is Eddie Cane is scum because mastina is. Attacking me without addressing the main point “mastina is scum” is scummy as fuck.

Conclusion 1e – The Purple Nurple hydra has lied and admitted it 4 times.
Lie 1: We have an anti town role lynch us immediately OMG. (Rescinded 1404
Lie 2: We have an arcana (and therefore are a Phantom Thief and therefore are town). They lack the prerequisite knowledge davesaz being town.
Lie 3: They are a gladiator (claim viewtopic.php?p=9666471#p9666471 (Rescinded: 1393
Lie 4: We were “lock scum” in multiple posts and should have known it fake. In the post game it was specifically mentioned that our gladiate was very negative utility. I couldn’t talk normally until I gladiated someone. Saying you were negative utility and then gladiating us still could have been neg utility as the game I was a neg utility gladiator in was an Alisae setup. 1402 waffling on our alignment on. (Aka not lock scum …it was a reaction test after MANY posts calling us scum)
Lie 5: Mastina has not posted since pregame. Several posts the hydra has mentioned thinking “mastina and I” think blank…Then if mastina is not posting, she is talking with you on some chat platform or some forum thread or something. Otherwise ther eis no “Mastina and I” think. This means either A) this is a teaching hydra which is fine if it is, but instead you’re passing it off as a lack of investment from mastina which seems incorrect if she is talking with you.

Conclusion 1 – Mastina is scum

Conclusion 2 – Not Chara is not a Phantom Thief and scum likely knew of Davesaz at the start.
 The FoS on Davesaz in 489
 This means either A) Not Chara was reaction testing and is a Phantom Thief or B ) genuinely didn’t know.
 When its FoS is mentioned they said they were town and didn’t know not a reaction test. This means either A) Not Chara is town without knowledge Davesaz is town OR B ) Not Chara is scum and didn’t know Davesaz is town. Or C ) Was trying to lure out the Phantom Thieves by seeing who reacted to the FoS. However it did not think about the potential town reason for doing so and then just said “I’m town but I didn’t know” (paraphrase)
 Not Chara 489 said they think Varsoon is town and so is key but then delays the explanation until they can interact in real time. This feels really excuse like since they have yet to give a reason for a few single sentences. In the game where I was scum they were town, they were a lot more wordy even when they had limited time. They also showed a lot more “if then” in their thinking which is notably absent here.
 Mainly their reads look more like “I know this” so I’m going to state it as a read. Notice that Not Chara is very light on actually calling people scum.
 viewtopic.php?p=9669473#p9669473 mentions that Arcana are collected from scum fake claims. This leads me to believe the most likely answer is C) That scum actually know who davesaz was and orchestrated this setup to see who the Phantom Thieves were and Not Chara was likely reaction testing there. Then when I started pressuring them, they put pressure on Mulch who is a powder keg under pressure (sorry Mulch if you take offense at this this is not an attack on you personally just what I’ve seen of you so far). Then mulch claims. This leads me to believe a majority of people on Mulch at that point were scum. Mastina/Eddie then comes in as a “rescuer” to try to save the Mulch slot. It just wasn’t expected to work out so well. Between me talking with Drixx and not letting his anger get the best of him (of which I am still pissed as well about Mulch’s play…I just can’t see it coming from scum). We lynch scum not town we are annoyed at.

Counter point A – But if scum knew Davesaz was town how would the game function?
 Innocent Childs exist in mafia. This would be no more than like a weaker IC as only some of the town and all of the scum group would know who this town player is.

Counter point B – But if scum didn’t know Davesaz was town how would the game function?
 Phantom Thieves would know 1 player out of 21 others (not 22 because we ourselves know we are town). Having scum not know and some town not know means they’d have to be careful about how to do it to not alert scum. A town could end up with an FoS because they vote Dave. It’s mainly that Not Chara did not have an explanation for the Davesaz FoS that make it lock scum. It was almost certainly reaction testing, not what it claimed.

Either Chesskid or Kise are a traitor for scum if one exists
 viewtopic.php?p=9669312#p9669312 Not Chara actually states a strong townread on chess and then “wishes it could remember why they scumread chesskid”. This is a common signal to a traitor to vote and hop off. I think chesskid is likely town though based on play but based on mechanics and Drixx’s read I still include it as a possibility.
 Not Chara has not followed up on any reads or any sort of townblock all game. The posts that it has been contributing seem to line up with all the players I’m saying are scum. They’re attacking us after we attack them. LUV outright said they were town and pointed out stuff about the Eddie Cane hydra and now they are being attacked. This game seems very OMGUS like towards trying to get a lynch.

Conclusion – Not Chara is SCUM or is pocketed by the people listed as scum which makes her TINO. (Town in Name Only)

Ramicus’s vote history is towards shutting things down.
 (Side note: Ramicus is a very realistic candidate for scum. Doesn’t follow up, doesn’t do anything and this is likely a mastina post outside of pregame
 574 Vote on us to see where it leads. This is after FoS of Not Chara, this is a chainsaw defense per the mafia scum wiki. Ramicus said it was because they didn’t like our policy lynch of Mastina (despite it was a valid request). Ramicus don’t even genuinely believe it and so haven’t had a genuine vote yet in their own words 595
 Attacks CiA when they vote Ramicus. (CiA’s loved comment also feels genuine that they didn’t see a need to claim it.)
 Leaves vote on CiA despite not pushing them or interactin with them.
 1638 switch to Yume is more about just trying to distract. A policy lynch as demonstrated earlier is going nowhere. This vote is noise and Ramicus again doesn’t follow it up.
 He then asks to be sold on someone.
 Ramicus is playing very passively rather than actively scumhunting. He wants to have the game “solved” for him and then be able to come on at the end. He’s a noise maker/vote flopper as needed. The scum wanted me gone so he tried. Scum want CiA gone so he tries. Very likely CiA is town here if Ramicus is scum.

Conclusion – Ramicus is not scumhunting and therefore is scum

Based on earlier meta analysis of mastina (xReckonerx, keyenpeydee, or chesskid3 is group scum)
 Based on chesskid’s reaction to the FoS from Not Chara, and Not Chara’s sudden and obvious flip on chesskid3, the pair being group scum together is unlikely.
 Based on how the keyenpeydee wagon started up and keyenpeydee’s replace out, it’s unlikely that this slot is group scum or scum of any kind.
 This leaves xReckonerx and unassigned in the bottom three. This leaves two possibilities.
 xReckonerx is town meaning mastina is 0-3 in bottom scumreads. This is neigh on never heard of with a player as good as Mastina. (Burden of Proficiency)
 xReckonerx is group scum, which then follows mastina’s scum meta of putting at least one scum in the bottom three. She generally wants a good position to be set for later on in the game as scum. Having 0 scum in those reads would look really bad.

Conclusion – By Mastina meta xReckonerX is scum, by votes xReckonerX is scum (even though he’s helping me vote Mastina, but by post and emotion he feels genuine, downread to a scum lean for me and mastina may have changed her scum meta or increased it to the size of the scum team.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

(Again that's still partial but that took me 3 hours to type and I have to do things here soooooo....Will do more later if time permits.)

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

I make my post and then make breakfast and then instantly all of you come on and happen to post.

Why are all of you lurking til I posted? Catching up now.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

Eddie: ISOing Alchemist reminds me of the last thing i was trying to remember when i was writing that. there are a lot of players who jumped on the Nurple wagon after the fake gladiate and Math's unfinished case post. (i mentioned Reckoner). an opinion on your slot is in a lot of ISOs in the playerlist.

Unfinished doesn't automatically negate everything I said.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

I'm convinced. Math promised the big post, and it looks like EC head lurked and did nothing else but watch so he could immediately try and discredit Math's post. Ram coming on with that "thx for making me laugh" is pretty bad.

The worst is Eddie showing up nearly immediately and complaining that he didn't want to 1v1 our slot. How disingenuous can you get man? If you don't want to 1v1 us, then instead of camping the thread to try and discredit posts, use your time and do something else. You're playing purely defensively, littering your posts with ATE and you got legit caught appealing to (false) authority by pretending Mastina is at all involved and talking to you, but for some reason just not posting in the game. Your slot has lied so often, you are literally now a case study for "Lynch All Liars" (especially since you're going to flip scum).

Like ... you responded to Math's post and claim that you and Mastina have been talking. Then in your next post you respond to me and say Mastina has been gone. Which is it? You can't even keep the simplest of stories straight.

~Drixx

[RationalNumbers]

[post=1252]

I had already stated my complete lack of flavour knowledge multiple times in this game, so yes, you should have known that.
You're right, I didn't enter trinity that way, my bad. Our role does not have a wiki entry though nor anything close to it.
We didn't disagree on luv. Mastina had them as possible scum, I said no he's town on meta, she agreed... there was no dissonance and she didn't remain suspicious of him. We did mildly disagree, that's literally why... again... my reads list had mastina's reads mentioned as mastina's reads, and no, mastina isn't playing, she hasn't talked in our hydra pt since pregame.
The premise is Eddie Cane is scum, because Eddie Cane and Mastina have the same role pm. I don't give a fuck how you choose to word it. Mastina has done a reads list in EVERY GAME I'VE PLAYED WITH HER, like so, and you don't get to turn that into a scum tell when she said she did it quickly which implies she didn't iso all 22 players and itwas therefore parshly from memory, so I don't find the non-posting unreasonable. Tell me... you're focusing a ton on that point, "mastina ranks non-posters differently", but why is that a scum tell and not a stupid tell? Scum faking reads still put effort into reads, any scum that isn't a fucking dumbass knows that, many even argue scum are more meticulous. What would be the possible benefit as scum of ranking non-posters differently? And, if you're trying to fake a reads list to appear town, you're definitely gonna put thought into it, I think we can both agree mastina isn't some newbie. This is gross.

You can't have it both ways Eddie.

Either Mastina is Town and isn't trying and isn't caring enough to have reads that make sense << In this case why do you agree?
Or Mastina is scum who fucked up her reads

Because we agree Mastina isn't a newbie she has a burden of being at least logical with her reads.

You can't on one hand say her reads are genuine and then yell at me for not knowing Mastina was faking her reads.

That is mindboggling.

[RationalNumbers]

(Also Ramicus is actually a very realistic candidate for scum.)

yes, this is a mastina post outside of pregame, a few minutes after... guess I got caught in another lie.

Also nice waffle too.

The more I case you the more you scumread me. When not talking about you you were townreading us.

Can you be more blatant?

--Math

@dave -- I generally leave the vote etc to Drixx since we fully believe we are dying tonight.

[RationalNumbers]

Math, it's just a fact that mastina produces these readslists in every one of her games. every one. i bet i could find a towngame where posters and non-posters were in the same grouping. the explanation that she did this one from memory is fine.

differentiate that from specific reads on specific players like LUV, who mastina had a real opinion about.

Yes she produces the readlists in all her games. However without fail when her reads list are obviously flawed she is scum. In WWE she included players not in the game. Here she sorts on posters with posters.

Why is this flawed list "fine" when it was a scum fell for her in WWE?

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

Math, it's just a fact that mastina produces these readslists in every one of her games. every one. i bet i could find a towngame where posters and non-posters were in the same grouping. the explanation that she did this one from memory is fine.

differentiate that from specific reads on specific players like LUV, who mastina had a real opinion about.

Yes she produces the readlists in all her games. However without fail when her reads list are obviously flawed she is scum. In WWE she included players not in the game. Here she sorts on posters with nonposters.

Why is this flawed list "fine" when it was a scum fell for her in WWE?

--Math

Ebwop

[RationalNumbers]

Hey hey hey

I have none yet.

Because you can't. My ability prevents me from being lynched once.

Sure, do so at your own risk.

However, I will say this: it's a bad idea.

Be ready for consequences.....

This isn't something town says in response to 1 vote

VOTE: Yume

I think we are better off voting here rather than having a vigilante shoot here

It is for Town Yume.
Shadowrun early she crumbed doc she generally makes strong statements she would follow up on as Town. I am actually townreading Yume.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

I have to go will respond to Ramicus and Not Chara's responses to my case later.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

If you want me to re-evaluate, you are going to have to deal with me in good faith. That means:

1.) You don't call me a bully for having a very reasonable reaction to someone taking a total shit all over the game (and thus the moderator as well, who we can safely assume dumped 100+ hours into development/balancing/preparation). He should have been instantly force replaced for that level of bullshit. Furthermore, people went and looked at his town blow ups and pointed out why the blow up in this game looks like a bad fake job trying to replicate that town meta he has built so he can get an ATE based town read. (Which you appear to have bought into, if I assume we live in a world where your slot is town).

2.) You don't throw personal insults at me. "reading comprehension of a 5th grader" is a particularly pointed dagger to shove into someone who teaches university level composition and rhetoric and a language which requires a complete mastery of grammar to properly translate. These are things you could easily find out about me if you went to my GTKAS, so I'm inclined to believe it's an intentional attempt to go for a perceived weak spot, but then I'm going to DISMISS that inclination and just assume you like to make yourself feel smart by attacking facets of other people's intellect.

You want a do over and me taking time to figure out if a town you produces all the posts you've produced? Then you stop with the shit and personal attacks and you deal with me like an adult. It's that easy.

~Drixx

P-Edit: Yume probably shouldn't be lynched today.

@Yume:

Time to put what you learned in your upick to work. I won't go out of my way to tell people to give you time beyond today, should I live that long. It would be much better if you just got involved now and showed off that improvement we saw. You've already dug a hole by being very inactive and regressing.

[RationalNumbers]

Damn it took a lot of effort to get that post in. Sooooooo much speed posting going on right now.

~Drixx

[RationalNumbers]

It would be a significant error to assume that Math and I are working on the level that Cerberus and I work on. Math and I aren't there yet. I'm making posts without running them by Math and vice versa. Mostly because we're having issues with the slack we made and I can't get IRC to connect to it like I have done with all prior hydras, so I'm not getting an audible signal when Math is asking my opinion, and then math is just posting. Generally what you don't expect from a hydra with me is dissonance, because mostly I spend a lot more time talking to my hydra partner than posting in game. Not EVERY post we're making isn't talked about, but I'd say more of them haven't been discussed than have, probably at least a 3:1 ratio in that direction.

I'm not saying that is okay or acceptable. I hate hydra dissonance. We have some right now, but I'm not going to say you should excuse us for it.

We're working on it. So yeah ... please don't apply the standard you would if this was ReasonablyRational, because Math and I aren't there yet. I've known Cerberus for a decade. Not gonna instantly have that level of synergy with anyone else straightaway. Still ... part of us wanting to hydra together is to teach one another. I'm learning loads from math's approach, and I think Math is starting to put in the logical work and starting to apply Bayesian reasoning to evaluating things, which is a HUGE part of what I do and why it works (but it takes a LOT of info and takes a LOT of time). We're already seeing fruits from it.

Like ... #RealTalk I'm pretty sure most of the game realizes we're obvtown. We're outed as a PT. We outed our Arcana (Priestess) and what it does in the game. I don't see us living long but I really really want to go long this game just to spend more time working with math. We both doubt that will happen, so we're actively focusing on going through the game again and trying to put as much well reasoned thoughts into the game as we can.

After we are dead, whenever and however that happens, we're asking right now that people go against the recent town trend of ignoring prior days and come back later in the game and look at what we had to say before we died. You will know you can trust our intentions, and Math and I independently have fairly good game. We're not god tier players, but we aren't shit either. Just like ... don't ignore stuff that happened earlier (and not just as regards what we say and our slot). Please.

<--- Intentional appeal to rationality and appeal to emotion for any town who actually thinks we're scum. I'd rather logic prevail, but I'll take guilt.

~Drixx

[RationalNumbers]

Tunneling seems to be a Math town thing but I really should be keeping track of who does what as which alignment instead of trying to remember it. Too much danger of a false memory being a strong one.

I have a mafia folder in my documents. I have sub-folders as follows:

1.) Game Setups -> Newbie (Images) {Newbie #} (Templates), Normal (Images) (Templates), Themed (Images) (Templates) <--- the templates are rules and various tables and such so it's easier to make things look nice.
2.) Game Notes -> {Folders named for each game}
3.) Player Notes -> {Folders for each person with notes from each game and an "overall" notes}

Like ... if you take the time to make notes, might as well save them and have an objective place to look when you want know what your personal experience with people is. It's not really much more work for me but I could see it being a lot of work if you don't take lots and lots of notes already. Feel free to adopt whatever you like.

~Drixx

[RationalNumbers]

I can't view your GTKAS, I am not in the speakeasy or anything and that's intentional. I don't care if you're a professional editor, you're ignoring obvious things and constantly misrepping me and its extremely annoying. Not Chara is commenting on it now, others have replied to parts of it (was it Leon or Varsoon? idr), its a thing. Sorry if I offended you though, genuinely.

You should totally join the speakeasy. Reading up the GTKAS for players helps make them real people and people who are real to you ... you are far less likely to just view them as anonymous people you don't know. You are then more likely to restrain yourself when things get heated. You can also get an idea about what makes people tick and that will help you interface with them in games and get more productive interactions.

As for offending me: you didn't. I will put snark into my posts to make a point. I always point out when folks cross the site rules. Very little actually gets to me emotionally in forum mafia. I think it's because I've been around the internet since before there were proper browsers (I remember downloading Mosaic with excitement). Some things will actually impact me: for example Mulch did a thing which I believe severely harmed the game (won't know for sure how much until I'm dead and can see the setup) and that made me angry but it was angry on behalf of the mod who I view as a friend. I think I would probably have been as angry even if I didn't at all know the mod. The only other times I've been legitimately impacted emotionally can be counted using the fingers of one hand, and I'm coming up on 3 years here.

Also ... if you went looking and found one of the examples of me being actually impacted and angry, you would easily see the difference between snark and rhetoric and what happens if you manage to piss me off for real. The latter is really unpleasant for everyone involved.

I appreciate your apology though. I'm open to start over. I will re-read and talk to Math. I can't promise you I'm going to come to new conclusions, but we have a TON of material to review since we've been having a go at each other for days now. Should be able to get a really good evaluation of your thinking and assign probabilities to the possible motives.

~Drixx

[RationalNumbers]

Drixx, you being town isn't helpful when your presented cases have major logical errors you need to address. that's what i'm asking from you here. if you're going to ask players to go back and examine your cases after you've died, it is your responsibility to prioritize the accuracy of what you and your hydra partner are saying.

If you are genuinely interested in me reviewing things and fixing what you view as logical errors, it would help if you quoted them into a spoiler post and put short notes about what you think is an error. There's a LOT of posts, and I've just committed to going through and doing a thorough re-read on the PN slot, so like ... help me out yeah?

~Drixx

[RationalNumbers]

Hey, LUV is here. Thoughts on the PN/RN bidirectional tunnel? Thoughts on Yume, WhemeStar, Alchemist please.
If you say something about PN/RN and include quotes please edit heavily. The vertical screen space editing saves (along with consequent reading time reduction) is precious.

You want my thoughts on Yume, WhemeStar and Alchemist?

Yume is easiest: She made leaps and bounds of progress in her U-pick game and was town. Reverting back to being cryptic and barely active basically screams scum. I would still argue to give her some time to show differently, but the longer that goes on the more damning it is.

LMK if you want thoughts on the others.

~Drixx

[RationalNumbers]

Furthermore, people went and looked at his town blow ups and pointed out why the blow up in this game looks like a bad fake job trying to replicate that town meta he has built so he can get an ATE based town read. (Which you appear to have bought into, if I assume we live in a world where your slot is town).

I don't have time to deal with anything right now but this is very scummy because it's a lie

I absolutely remember someone saying that your blow up this game looks contrived and not genuine compared to your blowups in town games. I'm sure I'll bump into that post re-reading and I'll quote it.

~Drixx

[RationalNumbers]

I've already been over this a few times, check my iso please, including my investment with math and more about the gladiate.

Without investment faking wouldn't give any reactions or anything

. I had to give reasoning or I wouldn't have gotten any reactions because gladiator fakes are becoming as common as day vigs. You need investment to pull something like that or it doesn't work. That post quickly just summed up some qualms I had with RN over the past page, it took me like 3 minutes max genuine time to write.

Yes. You're relying on me to understand a social trend when the last time I played in the normal queue I

think

was 1900. Why would I be aware of a trend that I hadn't personally played in? That would be like me saying "You're scum because in every game without you scum had a two word username and it ended with a vowel".

It is functionally irrelevant what other people do. It is functionally relevant what you do.

In regards to you Drixx is reassessing but the more you post shit like this every time I try to reassess I just see scum so i am leaving the reassessing to him.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

Is there flavour justification you tcan think of that would allow Ann or Ryuji to be scum?

They'd be a fake claim.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

I've already been over this a few times, check my iso please, including my investment with math and more about the gladiate.

Without investment faking wouldn't give any reactions or anything

. I had to give reasoning or I wouldn't have gotten any reactions because gladiator fakes are becoming as common as day vigs. You need investment to pull something like that or it doesn't work. That post quickly just summed up some qualms I had with RN over the past page, it took me like 3 minutes max genuine time to write.

Yes. You're relying on me to understand a social trend when the last time I played in the normal queue I

think

was 1900. Why would I be aware of a trend that I hadn't personally played in? That would be like me saying "You're scum because in every game without you scum had a two word username and it ended with a vowel".

It is functionally irrelevant what other people do. It is functionally relevant what you do.

In regards to you Drixx is reassessing but the more you post shit like this every time I try to reassess I just see scum so i am leaving the reassessing to him.

--Math

Except I've also said the gladiate reaction doesn't weigh too hard into my read so meh? And I also fake gladiates and day vigs in most of my games which you are free to go check so again, "it is fuctionally irrelevant what other people do"... meh?

It is bad enough that I spend three hours on your case and Not Chara and Ramicus and that some of your meta points you bring up contradict themselves (e.g. Disagreeing with LUV). If you expect me to go through and find every game you have,read it in its entirety, put a yes no, and then come back and prove you're full of shit on that that is insane. It isn't up to you to state something about your meta to disprove my point and then make me show that you are bullshitting because here is a hint, if it is a recent trend for gladiates to be fake and you have been around on the site for a while.

Then after the test you do have a townread on me (which I will find you said you had a 60/40 townread on me) and then you say you never did. Now you scumread me for the very reason you had a townread on me.

I am sick and tired of your clear bullshit. If you are town, which I extremely doubt, stop expecting me to know things, stop lying, stop expecting me to know that things are fake (reads list and gladiate ...you've shown a single Mastina game where she faked them and therefore could have faked them/made a mistake here but along with misunderstanding her role PM I doubt it). When your slot does a ton of antitown shit it / completely terrible play / be scum it isn't my job to find all the excuses it is your job to be better.

--Math

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

Is there flavour justification you tcan think of that would allow Ann or Ryuji to be scum?

They'd be a fake claim.

--Math

I think the other side of that is the characters are too centric to not actually be in the game. As in, we wouldn't play pokemon mafia and not have Pikachu.

Harry Potter, Hermoine were both scum in Harry Potter Mafia and Lord Voldemort was Town.

--Math

Try again.

[RationalNumbers]

Anyhow, flavor speculation is dumb and we should be able to find scum without it.

+1

Townread to Brian Skies.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

Is there flavour justification you tcan think of that would allow Ann or Ryuji to be scum?

They'd be a fake claim.

--Math

I think the other side of that is the characters are too centric to not actually be in the game. As in, we wouldn't play pokemon mafia and not have Pikachu.

Harry Potter, Hermoine were both scum in Harry Potter Mafia and Lord Voldemort was Town.

--Math

Try again.

See Eddie.

You can't say "oh history on site says ..." therefore I am Town.

You can't say "because flavor this is where we should go"

If at the same time you scumread us despite pretty much is hard claiming Priestess. And yes I can show you all the crumbs I did that match that flavor.

Either A) It is permissible and you'd be townreading us (Here's a hint we are)
Or
B) It isn't and you're wasting space and breath and trying to twist things your way again and being contradictory when it suits you.

If you want B and are Town explain how I am ever supposed to townread you.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

mastina

It contributes rather extensively along with your votes.

You are a townread by tone scumread by circumstance. Tone is easily faked so I rely more on circumstance.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

None of the setup speculation is helping.

Agreed hence why I tried to shit down Eddie doing it.


Furthermore he isn't trying to get a handle he is trying to set a conflicting narrative.

--Math

Pants are awesome please worship them.

[RationalNumbers]

None of the setup speculation is helping.

Agreed hence why I tried to shit down Eddie doing it.


Furthermore he isn't trying to get a handle he is trying to set a conflicting narrative.

--Math

Pants are awesome please worship them.

Shutdown autocorrect you suck.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

do u remember when Mulch left thread for 24hr.

nurple and rational should both do this as well

Why? So Eddie can control the game with bullshit?

When he posts something actively horrible I have to stop it. Else the Mastina name in the hydra will have it stick.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

Math is convinced you're scum Eddie. You're not going to get anywhere trying to browbeat an aspie. And you know that emotional assaults won't get you anywhere. You're being disingenuous again. If you want me to continue reviewing and reassessing, you'll drop the ultimatums and vectors of attack against someone you know cannot process them. You're intentionally trying to force Math into a corner where you can get us mislynched by saying that Math refuses to be reasonable and just do the "simple" things you're asking.

So drop the shit and go poke others. I'm not in the least bit surprised that Math thought you were town reading us because several of your posts made me believe you were implicitly saying that you had been working on sorting us and were leaning towards town on that. If I was thinking that the way I play, it's absolutely reasonable for Math to have assumed it. Sure ... there's no place where I can quote you saying something like "RationalNumbers is now a light town read" or anything like that, but I wouldn't have gotten that vibe from you if it wasn't implicit in your posts.

So seriously ... go evaluate some other slots while I do the work of re-evaluating a ton of walls to see if there's an underlying town mindset which explains it.

~Drixx

[RationalNumbers]

Pants are awesome please worship them.

Do you happen to have a town game link where you used this metaphor?

Civ mafia for starters. I can look up more when I'm not dead to sleepiness.

viewtopic.php?p=9031207#p9031207

It comes from a different site where I played a lot of witchhunt. It was a common trope that people who claimed to early "dropped pants" or were streaking.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

As of page 69, my reads and feelings haven't changed, and I can't get anything out of CIA and Ram's exchange

MI going to binge TEW2 today, bb tonight or tomorrow

Alc, do you know that you revealed your knowledge of Akira to everyone and also mentioned your character was close to the PTs while not being one BEFORE I called you Morg?

I'll rescind my request to have you protected. If you aren't Morg then your jump on Leon + the answers you provided to NC & myself looks suspect now in retrospect. Either way (even if we didn't have Akira's role PM in the OP), what was scummy about Leon knowing what Akira's role PM looks like?

I don't see any Role PMs in the OP.

Wait, I see the post now. I skipped that post because I thought it was flavor write-up.

UNVOTE:

Combined with the post below, these posts above don't make sense:

Hey Alc, did you ever consider Leon could be Morgana and his dumbass roleslipped?

Help me understand your reaction

Briefly, but figured he wouldn't have roleslipped someone else's PM.

How could you briefly think about Morgana

even existing

if you didn't read Akira's role PM?

And you specifically agreed with me about Morgana, so you can't say "maybe Leon is masoned with Akira as a different character"

This post is horrible. And I am not saying why. Let the scumreads for this begin. *rolls eyes*

I would suggest dropping this conversation now Kise.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

And "suggest" is forceful like in a movie.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

You can both agree to shut up for 24h and have a WMD armistice because this needs to stop

I think that would just stall the game sadly.

If they both stopped posting to / responding to each other it would help.
I'd like to see both slots post more about other slots than they do about each other.
Responding to the things posted about other slots would be helpful.
I can't properly sort either one if all of it is 1v1 tunnel. And I don't think either one is a plausible lynch for d1.

I'm guessing this is about the two prominent hydras and I only slightly agree (since I tr RN) that them going at each other (apparently it's a 1v2) isn't making me scumread the other hydra slot. I'm FULLY reading what they all have to say and it's pulling into a different game/argument ENTIRELY because it feels unique and isolated for some reason. They acknowledge the other players less often and don't read them as firmly (which would be great if y'all could do in such great detail for other people as you do versus each other) and their fight is starting to make me nervous that I'm gonna get yelled at post game if I don't comply, because they strongly believe the other hydra is scum and I'm getting brainwashed into taking it as a fact

Dude....Town!Kise stands his own no matter what.

What the fuck?

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

How many times you played with townkise, not counting ongoing?

I see u

1 confirmable but you remind me of someone else.

--Math

Gotta go work.

And Re: smocaine I have a shit ton other scumreads. I don't see a reason why I should abandon them when any time I post I am told "no you can't scumhunt there". It pisses me off.

--Math

Gotta go to work.

[RationalNumbers]

Kise I think it’s odd you’re giving that reasoning. Feels like key PR hunting.

+1

[RationalNumbers]

What made you townread us NC?

@EC - We're well beyond the point where either of our slots can point at the other and say or imply "I didn't start it, I'm just reacting". My point was that you went at Mathblade in ways that they just won't understand, and I'm fairly sure you know that. I didn't like it, because it felt like dirty fighting.

THAT SAID: I'm currently going through the process of dumping your entire ISO and the context for it into a document and stripping your name from it to help avoid a bias where I associate your name with the scumread I have starting out. This evening my time, I'm going to be teaching Math in real time how I case people and why it works. Contrary to what you might be assuming, I will be attempting to demonstrate that your slot is town and I'll be using your posts and the context of them to try and do that. I really do wish there was more read progression to work with, but I think there's enough posts to get a pretty reliable and rational conclusion.

Apart from that ... I'm kind of interested in a gist of the case against LUV. I'm also interested in knowing why the prior "Key dies today" crowd seem to have totally dropped that stance upon replace in. Is it just being polite and letting BS have some time to play, or did BS send out a strong town tell or ...?

~Drixx

[RationalNumbers]

@Thread

Just got home from work haven't read anything since this am. Looking forward to talking with Drixx. Prod Dodge til then.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

And no, rn isn't a confident SR, they're a town lean.

I give up trying to figure out where your reads are anymore.

I am beyond confused.

I hope Drixx can help me sort you because shit like this where you've been saying you've been scumreading me all day and wasn't a townread except you were 60/40 sure which makes me a scumread then someone says you scumread me and now you say you townread me.

I fucking give up Eddie.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

i am 60/40 rational is town at this point, but i think drixx is going to continue to be an insufferable overconfident jackass and math is probably not gonna be much better, so meh.

[RationalNumbers]

Blatant proddodge as still no drixx talk yet and I need to catch up.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

any update drixx?

He hasn't responded on Slack guessing a RL issue.

Haven't tried myself and won't do it tonight not in right head space.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

is there anything else you're thinking of atm math? gamestate wise and whatnot? do you want to answer the question I posed ages ago that was brushed off (do you believe luv is scum if i'm town)?

No I don't.

[RationalNumbers]

RN Low-commitment, wrong-headspace hypothetical, who to lynch that you think is viable?

E

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

VOTE: Ellibereth

Here. Have a vote.

[RationalNumbers]

VOTE: Ellibereth

Here. Have a vote.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

(Seriously this is going to probably be the worst towngame I've ever played. I'm basically psychic in one regard--when I sense I will have good playerlist synergy, I am almost always right and with that synergy I tend to perform well. When I sense poor synergy, I am almost always right in that I have abysmal games where I was incredibly detrimental. I signed up this game as a hydra because I needed a fucking hydra partner, but nancy had to drop out and the game started before I could find a replacement hydra partner so I'm stuck solo. And since role PMs have already been sent, I'm already in the game; my stubborn sense of pride means I can't replace out because I already acknowledged I was in the game as a player meaning I can't drop out so. Shit role. Shit synergy. I honestly would be surprised if I nailed so much as a single scum. And if I did, then it wouldn't be because of my efforts said scum died; it'd be a scum that everyone else already knows is scum, e.g. key. We all already know key is scum. So I can't claim any credit for nailing key because you'd have to be utterly incompetent to not do so.)

Question for mastina:

Drixx has me working trying to find some things in posts:

What was going on in your mind at this point Mastina? And if you have talked with Eddie about your key read since this post? If yes, describe your thoughts now towards the key slot.

Note: I very clearly DO NOT want Eddie or anyone else's response to this. If I have to wait I will.

--Math

I also understand that key is not the way the day is going today. I'm asking to establish the read on the hydra head.

[RationalNumbers]

What did Somcaine do that made them get 8 votes

For me it's what Smocaine didn't do, like do anything useful that I noticed.

I really don't have a desire for this wagon atm. Still been talking with Drixx but I think he signed out for the night. I get horrible vibes about the Smocaine wagon.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

You really should have said that during pre-game well before scum rolled roles

Actually think this could be town. I'll talk it out.

wow what is happening ok
VOTE: elli

(Still think this is scum, too.)

VOTE: key.
HURT: Maki and Kaito.
HURT: RationalNumbers.
HURT WITH A BLADE: xRECKONERx.
HURT WITH A BLADE: Ramicus.

I find it much more likely PN was trying to divert a Ramicus wagon onto Smocaine or Yume and is now trying to play savior again and direct the lynch onto a claimed PR.

Then again I am still doing the homework asked by Drixx but that is what I feel.

Despite the scumreads of Ramicus most of the game PN doesn't actually push there.

[RationalNumbers]

since nobody is interested in Kise I will join the VOTE: Smocaine wagon

What are you on about? There appears to be substantial interest for kise, including people talking about him a few posts above you and a few more pages back

This post really feels wrong

Same thing with PN and XReckonerX.

There is interest in Kise I scumread Kise but mainly that is a lynch based on weird where as PN Ram Reck and Not Chara I feel will net us a lot more scum.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

i tunnel for reads. sorry if you don't like that. i am fine with other playstyles, that's exactly how i'm able to consider rc and boon and math good players even though i don't like any of their playstyles too much. there's a difference between having a different playstyle and refusing to do the fundamental element of mafia which is scumhunt. voting null reads, refusing to give scumreads, refusing to defend your townreads; none of that is scumhunting.

before i pushed math, how many people had that slot as town?

the fact you are thinking me and rn have a decent chance of being svs shows me you really don't understand this game. that isn't what svs looks like, flat out.

it was the second biggest wagon, and others had expressed approval of it, so yes, i consider it a major wagon.

I looked games you linked yesterday - all mini's and micro's, what experience you have in large ones? 20+ ppl preferably, but little smaller probably fine too

Voting null reads makes them act, so you can try make read on them easier. What changes, if i tell my lynch preferences 3 days before EoD instead of spilling them now? Do you going prosecute them on spot and end day earlier? Why defend townread, if i don't see him getting lynched anyway? That's rhetorical questions, no need answer

I never said it was decent chance, don't twist my words, i said it's possible looking at how neither of you pushed other to be wagoned, and i have seen such SvS that you would drop from your chair, if you seen them

[RationalNumbers]

Take a look at this post here.

PN accuses Ramicus of not scumhunting and doesn't follow it up with a vote and doesn't follow it up with an explanation of why it met their criteria of not being vote worthy.

What is the Town motivation for that?

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

VOTE: ramcius

i want your wagon

There was an attempt to wagon Ramicus but it was pathetically weak despite PN agreeing with me that Ramicus isn't scumhunting.

Despite PN agrees with a lot of my reads at different points PN shades my ability and says to consider them Town when they aren't actively pushing where the people they townread agree on.

Instead they push Yume who again multiple townreads of theirs have no interest in. Smocaine who multiple townreads have hopped on because of the apathy.

My suggestion is we flashwagon E or Ramicus.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

i believe i explained why i voted you already. game felt like it was stalling, my LUV wagon wasn't going anywhere, i don't townread you and i townread Varsoon.
i like the wagon now because of how you've reacted to it.

Nurple: Ramcius is an ok one, but i like Chikoritas better.

chesskid: you're around then? i want to know your thoughts.

pedit: hahahahaha

Example "meh I scumread person but..."

This is terribad.

Like I am really trying here but this shady shit pings me so hard.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

Shadowrun Yume was Town with less than 10 posts one of which crumbed a role.

Yes Yume as Town can be this barren.

And Alisae gives scum roles to town and vice versa and so does Mastina.

I have a hard time believing that you're genuine about this.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

viewtopic.php?f=56&t=67961&user_select[]=27825

Actually it was less than 50.

And you're suggesting a policy lynch on Yume.

Explain why you can one player and not another?

Because I just don't see it. Gotta go to work.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

The only thing you have said is "I don't believe their role can exist and be Town"

That is a policy lynch. It doesn't talk about their play. And before you say Yume is lurking she lurks every game.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

Let's break it up Math and Eddie. I'm about 70% through the PN posts up through post 2000, so I'll have a bit more to add on. We're not going to get into a pissing match with that slot. Like ... I'm simultaneously walking math through what I'm doing and today we're going to realtime do the work on a google document so Math can learn one of my main tools (Not sure which slot we'll do; open to suggestions for a slot that could use a thorough sorting). Meanwhile I will finish what I'm doing and then talk with math and see whether they can counter any of my reasoning or conclusions and then we'll post the result and THAT will determine if we trust PN or not.

But right now, the only thing bantering back and forth does is distract from other things. And since it's highly unlikely that either of us is going to eat rope today, the only thing that we're doing is kicking up a hell of a smokescreen for scumfucks to hide in.

So ... stahp it.

~D

[RationalNumbers]

At work but in regards to Yume

Case as I see it is role doesn't fit >> this is policy and a horrible idea in Alisae games
Meta and Lurking >> Mutually exclusive. The meta case is shit and already countered it. Lurking is Yume always.

And that's it.
That is why I feel Yume with what is here is policy. Gtg.

E is Ellibeth (sp?)
--Math

[RationalNumbers]

Yes...I will talk with Titus about Yume's play in an ongoing.

That sounds completely normal and not worth a ban.

(The above is sarcasm I wouldn't talk to Titus about Yume especially in regards to an ongoing)

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

Prod Dodge. Haven't read or synced up with Drixx have been running roommates to the airport and ended up working a bit more.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

Catching up on nearly 300 posts.

What the fuck happened in 24 hours to necessitate this?

Guess it is a taste of my own medicine.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

Mulch

----------- 6 ( Not Chara, Lil Uzi Vert, Elibereth, Maki and Kaito, Varsoon, RationalNumbers )

This is specifically what I'm referring to RE: shit wagon. Is it exactly driven hardcore by scum, no. Is it a wagon on scum, fuck no. Does it have scum on it, fuck yes it does.

Oh hell no.

I see what you are doing Mastina.

You conveniently catch up and conveniently forget about the discussion in which Dave asked us both not to push each other and look at other slots and you are setting up attacking us. You're trying to piss me off so I explode the thread as talking with Drixx on the east coast is harder for me. I am not taking the bait and only responding to the bare minimum. I think you are very much obv scum and am going to keep my promise even if your slot doesn't keep yours.

You also conveniently quote a vote count with us on it in which Drixx voted Mulch because he was pissed off that Mulch did a really really horrible play. That was AFTER Mulch outed and post game people can go through the Slack logs and I had a townread on Mulch before then.

[RationalNumbers]

Purple ... look at the ISO for me (Drixx) ... if that's too much to ask, I'll do it all in a spoilered quote into the hydra (I asked if anyone wanted me to and nobody responded). I legitimately threw up a signal to Dave that I knew who he was that is undeniable now that he's been outed. Either you believe scum knew his identity from the start and that I have been putting on a show for the past hour or so ... or we should top your list.

Yeah the thing about that Drixx is.

You of all fucking people.

Know better than this.

Steven Universe is a game you rant endlessly on and on about. Because, yep. Scum had a strongman, and scum got to know the identity of the IC before the IC could become immune to said strongman.

Scum knowing the identity of our IC this game is something I outright expected from the get-go. And you if you were town would, too. Plus your push on Mulch is hypocritical if you DO honestly believe the phantom thieves who knew dave was Akira are town because in that case Mulch would be town because yes he DID indicate rather strongly so he knew and no your point saying he didn't know isn't fucking valid. Mulch was the one who outed the info. You have confirmed the info is correct yourself. That, in of itself. Tells you Mulch has the info.

Basically.
You as town know better than to say "scum wouldn't know the IC!".
Even if you genuinely believed this, that contradicts your Mulch push because Mulch clearly knew the IC. He hinted at it and he revealed davesaz before any other player did. If he were scum, how did he know that davesaz was Akira? The only option is that he knew from the get-go. In which case...either scum would know the IC, or by your belief Mulch would be town.

lol Wtf Mastina.

Drixx made it clear he never wanted to play with Mulch again and I spent a damn good amount of time trying to get a hold of Drixx to stop that. After talking with Drixx personally I can see that this isn't something that Drixx would fake. Drixx's vote was for a policy lynch and that much is evident. At that point in Drixx's mind it wasn't Town and scum he was seeing red and wanted Mulch out. After talking with Drixx and calming him down we moved our vote. You do not get to rewrite history.

PN is scum and I am just waiting for Drixx to do his thing here because I don't see any world in which even if you are behind Eddie doesn't leave a note in a PT or a Slack channel going "Hey don't push RN Dave said not to and there is an agreement to push other slots". The only reason I am not 2v2 walling you to your proper lynch is because Dave asked and I keep my promises.

Your entire catch-up was about screaming and making noise and trying to piss me off into spamming.

That shit ain't gonna fly.

--Math

[RationalNumbers]

i have a bulletproof claim so if someone wants to go ahead and do the thing where we get me near L-1 then I claim and everyone scrambles to unvote, we can do that

or we can skip the whole process and not out my role, your call

Or we can see that shit is scummy as fuck in a game with 22 players BP is not alignment indicative. And since you're trying to claim something NAI and say it is why we shouldn't lynch you you get a shiny vote.

VOTE: xReckonerX

--Math