Beneath The Mask [Endgame]

[Varsoon]

/confirm.

Kurusu, I am your Chariot.
I'll be in the metaverse, losers.
Yes, this is an open challenge to anyone who's going to come to metaverse to slam and jam with me.

[Varsoon]

People will use pre-game to decide if they want to start in the real world or metaverse.
That's enough reason to be playing now.

[Varsoon]

It's worth mentioning that there's a very likely chance that there will be multiple kills even if this is singleball.
My role hints at the possibilities of multiple deaths and it's in Alisae's mod meta.

[Varsoon]

Also-also, I'm claiming that I'll be in the metaverse purely because that is really important for me.
Anyone else that's going to either the metaverse or staying in the real world--if you're town, don't mention it unless you have to. The whole point of jumping into the metaverse or not is to evade other abilities. I'm purposefully bringing this up because I don't want town in the real world wasting time targeting me because I'll be in the metaverse and, also, I literally do not care if scum come for me in the metaverse. I even issued them a direct challenge.

[Varsoon]

So, in short, if you plan on coming after me, as either town or scum, you'll have to come to the metaverse.
That's all.

[Varsoon]

Mod: When you say we have unlimited FOS votes and only one real vote, does that mean:
A: We can use our FOS votes as much as we like but we can only ever vote for real once
or
B: We can have as many FoS votes on separate players but our real vote can only ever be on one person at a time

[Varsoon]

I've been assuming B, but it's important I know for sure before we all screw it up.

[Varsoon]

Hey, Mastina
Come to the metaverse with me.

[Varsoon]

Hey, Mastina
Come to the metaverse with me.

[Varsoon]

Hey, Mastina
Come to the metaverse with me.

If I understand my role PM correctly...I can't. I don't think it's possible; I

believe

I'm stuck in the real world exclusively. My role doesn't mention any ability to go into the metaverse. It lists my location as the real world, but mentions no mechanism by which I can switch to the metaverse. My negative utility also doesn't specify real world/metaverse; it's either active full-time no matter what, or it has no need to specify metaverse because I can't go into the metaverse. I've assumed the latter but I can ask Alisae if I can I suppose.

Oh, then don't worry 'bout it.

[Varsoon]

Please stop.

[Varsoon]

Oh, also, I'm Hated except in Mylo/Lylo.

[Varsoon]

Mod said the VC should reflect that, so, lemme double check it?
VOTE: Varsoon

[Varsoon]

Actually, I'm pretty sure I figured out a way that we could break the game and confirm every Phantom Thief.
Part of the Phantom Thief role PM tells me who Akira Kurusu is.
If, somehow, we could all claim at the same time, who Akira is, we could immediately confirm all the Phantom Thieves.
Of course, that level of cooperation and getting everyone to post at the exact same time so scum can't just copy+paste and sneak in would be nearly impossible.
I also though that maybe when we run someone to L-1, they could claim and also claim who they think Akira is, but if scum somehow know Akira's identity (But they shouldn't otherwise this game design gets real dumb), we could confirm out people before lynching them.
Of course, that does out Akira, who seems to be our most useful PR or something.

[Varsoon]

You really should have said that during pre-game well before scum rolled roles

....why?

[Varsoon]

I do,
My role's pretty flavor'd up.

[Varsoon]

Hey, Chesskid, have you considered dying?

And, yeah, I've played through Persona 5.

[Varsoon]

I'm not asking anyone to out themselves, I'm just openly brainstorming some mechanics here.
If you think I'm anything but town, you're a loon.

[Varsoon]

Nope, the VC properly shows that I am at L-10 with only myself voting for myself.

VOTE: Ellibereth

[Varsoon]

RationalNumbers--drop the Mastin thing.
You pushing there with what you've got is going to bring this D1 down a black hole and I only see that coming from your slot as scum.

[Varsoon]

RationalNumbers--drop the Mastin thing.
You pushing there with what you've got is going to bring this D1 down a black hole and I only see that coming from your slot as scum.

More likely to come from town them actually but yeah.

Homie, I've modded over half a dozen games that Drixx has played in and at least one or two recently with mathblade.
I'm not seeing that push as town from them in the least. Their slot might be town, but this makes me doubt it, and the push itself is hugely anti-town.

[Varsoon]

Chesskid, you've successfully pissed me off. I am actively frustrated with you. Contribute something beyond being a nuisance.

RationalMath: Mastina is a non-issue to not worry about right now because that's a distraction from actual scumhunting.
I feel like Chikorita is more likely scum than not.
I agree on Creature so far.
Otherwise, shrugs n hugs, man, I couldn't tell you.
I don't like the constant parroting of "I DONT READ PREGAME" because it feels faux-confrontational, like it's a dumb gambit to bait someone who has a problem with ignorance, so it's probably anti-town all around because it's an NAI bait and, if true, isn't helpful in the least.
Fuck this game sucks so far.

[Varsoon]

Oh, yeah, Mulch is kinda annoying, too.
Probably because they bold-shut down on something I wasn't even doing and then called me a dumbass.
Dunno if that makes 'em scum, though.

[Varsoon]

VOTE: Key

Everyone else is doing it.

[Varsoon]

so I'll tell you guys what I told mm4, it wouldn't surprise me if ramcius were to flip scum. To me, he seems like the guy who's appearing to do something but when I looked into him, I found nothing of use. His posts just kinda seem like fluff so that when someone iso dives, there's shit there.

Also, I really feel uneasy about varsoon. I pointed out flaws in his 468 earlier, but his 534 is really irking me too. He tells Rational to drop the Mastina case because they must townread that slot, but delves no deeper than "drop it". Imho, providing reads and reasons in this state of the game is crucial because there's not much to work with since it's so early (that points like half-moot because we have 18 pages of fucking pre-game, but I still think that providing reads etc. is important here and varsoon is trying to deny their read for no other reason (that I could see) aside from him townreading the slot

Misrep my position via omittion more, please.

[Varsoon]

VOTE: Varsoon feigning annoyance.

I'm not feigning shit.

[Varsoon]

I didn't finish the game but didn't Akira get nabbed by the cops at the beginning? I remember the premise being that one of his crew may have ratted him out. So...maybe mafia already know who Akira is and the deathproofiness is put there to stop them from outright killing this player. If this is the case then mafia basically just keep tabs on him. They'll probably also watch out for any crumbs Akira tries to make so maybe Morgana should do the crumbling/clearing

Again, I didn't finish the game, but it seems like one of the phantom thieves could be a mafia traitor as well

The possibility of a traitor is absolutely there, as it was an element in the game--there's more than one instance where trust isn't 100% between the Phantom Thieves.
As for Scum knowing Akira's identity, that is possible, too--I hadn't considered the deathproof angle. At the start of the game, Akira is on probation, but then he awakens to his metaverse powers and becomes a Phantom Thief in order to strike down the corrupt system. He has to hide his identity as a phantom thief so that he does not violate his probation. Most of the game is actually the main character's flashbacks to events as he considers exactly what to confess to a lawyer after being caught.

[Varsoon]

Lost the snip, but for people confused about me posting my thought process--I wanted to get it out there because maybe there would be an exploitable angle that someone else could recognize, but I think there's too many unknown factors and, due to the nature of the way forum posting works, no role-related claim shenanigans are likely to clear anyone.

[Varsoon]

Everyone

Who would you wagon out of the list from 755?

From most-willing-to-wagon-to-least-willing-to-wagon:
chesskid3
Smocaine
Mulch
PenguinPower
Kise
Maki and Kaito
xRECKONERx

[Varsoon]

Explain Mulch-scum to me.
And, yeah, I get that those are pretty much garbar reactions.

[Varsoon]

...those happened AFTER the flashwagon.
Explain the flashwagon and

why

[Varsoon]

Explain what makes the things scum, then?

[Varsoon]

Actually, Mulch, what defense would you have if I outed Akira first?

[Varsoon]

The fact you are using 'Our Leader' and a phrase like 'Hard Claim Phantom Thief' betray you.
VOTE: Mulch

[Varsoon]

I'm going to still vote you and still lynch you and file a formal complaint if you flip town because you'd ruin a game over wagon-frustration.

[Varsoon]

You could actually play mafia instead of gamethrow when under the pressure of four votes in a large game.
Get off your self-important high horse. Take a breath. Realize this is a game for everyone to play, that the mod put a ton of effort into, and that selfishly throwing the integrity of that out of the window is against the spirit of the game and, arguably, against site rules.

If you're scum, though, die forever.

[Varsoon]

Penguin, scum could literally have any flavor.
By design, it's important that scum have important flavor characters as their fake claims. Otherwise, there's nothing stopping all of the Phantom thieves from just flavor claiming and being confirmed as town and winning the game.

[Varsoon]

Also, if you had an inkling of what you were doing, you would've said RationalNumbers is Akira.

[Varsoon]

Oh, cool, then.
I'm Ryuuji/Skull.
Guess that makes me conf!town.

[Varsoon]

Mulch,
Get in the game. Stop talking about things that aren't this game.

VOTE: Ellibereth

Gonna just live with this life.

[Varsoon]

@RationalMath: What about NotChara?
I'm trying really, really, really hard to not put Mulch on my list-of-people-that-can't-make-it-to-endgame.

[Varsoon]

Really not comfortable with Mulch browbeating the game.
Let's focus on anything else literally.

Like
VOTE: Chess

[Varsoon]

so I can't read the whining fest here but agree it has to die sooner rather than later

but I'm going to throw out a curveball

I had "no idea" who akira was as it's NOT in my role PM, but if you had put a gun to my head before :loldrama: I would have guessed correctly based on the number of people who thought it was funny to manufacture a townread on a slot that's done nothing.

Soooo this is why I blew up at Version and why I don't think Alchemist moment was legitimate. Something to consider?

I don't like this post at all, especially because I don't see anyone who had a magical townread on Davesaz.
I also don't like the whole "I AM TOWN POSITIONING SO WELL THIS IS WHY MY EARLIER COMMENTS SHOULD BE TOWNREAD"
I'unno.
It's all-in-all a kinda crummy SR on you, I just really didn't like this post and you had me iffed earlier 'cus you called me a moron.

I just want to focus on anything but the mulch/elli gamethrow.

[Varsoon]

See, I was going to gambit this whole thing with claiming that Rational Numbers is Akira given the 'crumb' earlier of mentioning the film Akira (which is great, I love the manga, anyway).
But I saw that as too huge a potential for some dense townie to counterclaim and out Davesaz, so I dropped it.

[Varsoon]

Chess, rather than being obnoxious and making this game hell for people on their phones, you could just cite specific posts where people are conjuring an unsubstantiated townread across the board on davesaz, as you claim.

P-EDIT: So... arguably, LUV and Rational? Maybe Mulch? That's your HUGE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE COMING OUT WITH DAVESAZ TOWNREADS OMG ITS SO OBVIOUS

Really?

I don't believe you.

[Varsoon]

Like, as opposed to the vast number of people handing out townreads on me despite, apparently, me being very anti-town with how I've swaggered my flavor / play around so far?

[Varsoon]

You're 100% posturing.
It's really obvious.
The whole soft-out as not-a-PT is the lamest thing, too. Why even include that info if not to posture?

[Varsoon]

Rhetorically speaking: You guys are really fucking pathetic if you let Mulch get away with what he did and live beyond this day.

~D

He won't get away.
Drop it.

I actually find it kind of awkward that my role flavor specifically mentions that I got Ann to join the phantom thieves. It feels like a red herring. Maybe I'm just noided.

[Varsoon]

i feel as though Varsoon's emotional reaction to things like Penguin's ideas about what "flavour is alignment indicative" means and interactions with chesskid were more intense than the reaction to Mulch's gamethrow.
is it my head or not?

I already sent in a report. My issues with the Mulch gamethrow, if it's coming from town, are issues that are independent of what should be happening in this gamespace.
I'd like to not spend any more game-space energy talking about Mulch.
That said, we can probably PoE a shitload of town around it, so that's cool?
Unless we're being punked and Akira's identity means shit-all.

[Varsoon]

So why are we wagoning Key besides them being unproductive and lousy in pre-game?

[Varsoon]

Try growing a beard.
Smiling helps.
Part your hair at the right places.
Have good jokes.
Don't be hard on yourself/anyone.
I dunno how to charisma.

[Varsoon]

so I can't read the whining fest here but agree it has to die sooner rather than later

but I'm going to throw out a curveball

I had "no idea" who akira was as it's NOT in my role PM, but if you had put a gun to my head before :loldrama: I would have guessed correctly based on the number of people who thought it was funny to manufacture a townread on a slot that's done nothing.

Soooo this is why I blew up at Version and why I don't think Alchemist moment was legitimate. Something to consider?

I think your reactions to me are pretty natural and think you're Town because of them, so I'm willing to believe for a bit that you could be Town who didn't know who Akira is. That said, I'm not at all familiar with Persona 5 so I'd like to hear from people who are familiar with the theme if there could be a in-flavor reason why some Town would know Akiru and some wouldn't.

not ignoring this waiting on a reply from someone who knows anyrhing abt setup to see if that convo goes anywhere


free townpoints people come get ur free townpoints

Are you literally trying to get someone to come in and save your ass with the promise of townpoints?

[Varsoon]

And you gave me shit for baiting?

[Varsoon]

You're literally like "WELL OHO I DIDN'T KNOW DAVESAZ WAS AKIRA, BUT HEY, I WON'T TELL YOU HOW THAT FLAVOR MATCHES---SOME OTHER TOWNIE SHOULD STEP UP AND OUT THEMSELVES TO EXPLAIN IT, EHE?"

No.

[Varsoon]

Establish your read, then.
Stop doing that thing you're doing that's not establishing your read.

[Varsoon]

He's not supporting your request at all.
He's someone familiar with the theme and falls into the category you described exactly.
Instead of explaining in a way that makes sense, he's baiting town to out info:
How do you read:
"not ignoring this waiting on a reply from someone who knows anyrhing abt setup to see if that convo goes anywhere
free townpoints people come get ur free townpoints"

As anything but bait?

[Varsoon]

The flavor is really, really obvious as an answer for this, considering what we know about claims so far.

[Varsoon]

My b, I thought you were the person riding me for full claiming Ryuji after softing Chariot.

[Varsoon]

I figured it out--that was penguin.
Regardless, then, doesn't matter, it's still bait.

[Varsoon]

I'll take it, though:

In the game, Akira and his allies are the Phantom Thieves. They are the playable characters in the story. This is your team.
However, you still meet other people who support your cause--these people, in addition to the Phantom Thieves, offer you different Arcana (powerups), such as Chariot, Hanged Man, Moon, Lovers, Emperor, etc.
PurpleNurple claimed to offer the Hanged Man arcana. In the game, that arcana belongs to a character who sells weapons to the party and has connections to the yakuza. This character, while a supporter of the Phantom Thieves, is not an actual member of their group.
Ergo, it makes sense for him to be town-aligned, but not know Akira's identity.

[Varsoon]

It's bait because:
1. You're asking someone else to make a connection that you should be able to provide already given your claimed role.
2. Because your claimed role is not verifiable, your position (not knowing who Akira is) can be called into question
3. If another town comes out and confirms that they didn't know who Akira is and you're scum, then it gives you a pass for 2 AND lets you learn more about the setup you might not have known AND potentially allows you to rolefish based on what I explained in 1074.
4. You said the person who does this gets townpoints

Like
I don't see how you don't see that.

[Varsoon]

Honestly, Purple, I'd like to buy a vig on like five different slots at this point.

[Varsoon]

I don't see how any of this gets you a better read on alchemist, either

[Varsoon]

I thought you considered yourself the best candidate to vig.

[Varsoon]

It's the sad truth.

[Varsoon]

I haven't claimed shit nor will I be claiming shit past HEY there's clearly a divide in who knew and didn't know Akira identity

That's what I'm saying that you claimed. There was no clear divide before you did that. You made it an issue.

but now EVERYONE KNOWS. So yeah there's probably :implications: to doing a mass PT non-PT claim and I in no way proposed that, I merely felt comfortable with my role and place in the game to claim that I didn't know Akira identity to bring that discussion to light.

I don't know why you're putting emphasis on 'everyone knows.' If you're trying to be accusatory, you're the sole person at fault for this.
Also, there are no implications beyond your own posts of doing a mass PT non-PT claim and you're literally proposing the idea by presenting it here.

I'm completely and totally lost on what you think the scum benefit for what I'm doing is exactly? Like you make your fancy list but it actually contains nothing that makes any sense? I didn't ask for an Arcana claim, I didn't ask for a nameclaim, I asked someone to answer Alchemist from a purely flavor point of view what the fuck phantom thieves and non phantom thieves who are 'aligned with the phantom thieves' are.

Don't play coy in not understanding how bait works.
No shit, you didn't ask for all that.
You simply set up a situation where any player could fumble to give you all of that.

As far as I can tell this is based on some massive weeb game or anime and you have to keep in mind that I, and hopefully some other players in this game, have lives.

Reported for racism/bigotry. Peace.

but seriously none of the adverts or the first post being about an 'Akira Kurusu' tipped you off?

...how has any of this helped your Alchemist read?
Or was that just an excuse to posture re:bait?

[Varsoon]

Oh, there was one person who did say that Phantom Thieves should flavor claim, as a joke, to be cleared.
That person was me, talking shit to Penguin, who I've already mixed up with you.
So yeah.

[Varsoon]

My role explicitly tells me I'm aligned with the Phantom Thieves despite not being a part of them, but I knew who Akira is.

But I'm taking a second look at my role and the wording on it does seem to imply that actual Phantom Thieves are more likely to know Akira, and my character is close to the main protagonist, so this all makes sense to me. My character's probably the oddball in-between one when it comes to this situation.

Don't talk on this anymore.
There's more than one character that your situation could apply to, but let's not get all excited about spilling our flavor marbles for scum to pick up.

[Varsoon]

@Chess: So, you're not going to explain why any of this helps your Alchemist read? Just empty posturing? Gonna engage with the least worthwhile part of my post alone? GG, my man.

@Wheme: I'm a sheep who sometimes gains awareness enough to realize he's been had/there really isn't much to a wagon?
Alternatively, I was pushing key in 567 for early pressure because the slot wasn't producing worthwhile content.
They ghosted and now there's new calls for the Key wagon but I'm unsure why people want to push it at this stage, 500 posts later.
Pick your poison.

[Varsoon]

If you're trying to be accusatory, you're the sole person at fault for this.

actually no we can thank mulch for that

Ayyy, true, but that's a pretty lame blame shift onto an already low-hanging antagonized slot.

Wow, shit, you're right, I'm conf-biased here, Chess.
You're not as bad as I paint you to be, but, really, we don't see eye to eye on how to approach this game at all.

[Varsoon]

If you have to spill beans so that you can put them on the end of your bait hooks and go fishing, so be it.

[Varsoon]

I'm going to be hyperbolic in a lot of what I do here because it's the only way I'll get people to actually see where I'm coming from.
Don't take this as some condemning moment, like, that I will be voting and scumreading you forever
I'm just really, really critical of play that bothers me.

[Varsoon]

Oh, okay, so back to it, then.
VOTE: Key

[Varsoon]

I'd also be really more than okay with a Chikoritas wagon

[Varsoon]

There's, like, a shitload of arcana in the game. Around 20 of 'em.

[Varsoon]

reporting for duty is an exceptionally common thing for any police character to say. it's also a common phrase. i'd consider it too general to be a crumb unless it's something particularly noteworthy. Varsoon? or your notes, when you have time.

pedit: thanks chess.

Who was saying "Reporting For Duty" in this game?

[Varsoon]

Well, the arcana they claimed is Hanged Man, which is associated with the gun dealer, Iwai--not with any of the cops.

[Varsoon]

Don't know that I'd read that line as particularly damning, though.

[Varsoon]

Here's a list of all the confidants in the game, along with their arcana:

http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Confidant

[Varsoon]

All of the characters that have an asterisk * next to their names are phantom thieves.
Goro Akechi ends up betraying the party.

[Varsoon]

This page might also prove useful:
http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Phan ... _of_Hearts

[Varsoon]

You know what would be cool?
If I could come to this game and slam down on something that isn't a meta-discussion of site politics, policy lynches, flavorspec, etc.

Like, holy shit, I'm having a nightmare of a time engaging with this game.
If I was a vig, I wouldn't know who the fuck to shoot:
Rational Numbers coming out the gate with play that's so awkwardly setup spec and appealing to davsto
Purple hitting stage with the whole 'my role is so bad' crap then walling up to Rational
Chesskid for being Chesskid and my own beef there
Yume for the weird claim and how much everyone else has painted it
Mulch for the mulching 2017

I also don't like Chikorita, but that might actually be one of my most informed READS rather than me just hating someone's game approach and wishing I could sort everything through fire and flips.

[Varsoon]

That's exactly my point, man

[Varsoon]

The way you're approaching it does make me feel bad already.
There's a part of me that's already townreading all of you and just wants to move on to focusing on other players please and not any of this ancillary crap

[Varsoon]

For everyone

What would be your 3 favorite wagons?

Chikorita, Chess, Penguin, maybe?

VOTE: Chikorita

Look dude, I don't even know, I'd just be very happy if the day ended and we had flips to actually start some engagement with.

[Varsoon]

Some early stuff that triggered me:

Spoiler: From Chiky's ISO

For everyone

What would be your 3 favorite wagons?

What about go fuck yourself(s).

i like you. but you're probably scum. if there even is scum in this game...

So, in short, if you plan on coming after me, as either town or scum, you'll have to come to the metaverse.
That's all.

if scum is in the real world they can still kill you if you're in the metaverse so this statements just kinda unnecessary

-ryan

guys why do we have to kill why can't we just have brunch sometime together in the metaverse? i know this great place right off of lake ave that has

(yay i love sending messages that i don't mean to send yet)

that has the BEST french toast in the metaverse. i know the cook, he's an old family friend. who wanna go with me sometime?

-ryan/echo

Actually, I'm pretty sure I figured out a way that we could break the game and confirm every Phantom Thief.
Part of the Phantom Thief role PM tells me who Akira Kurusu is.
If, somehow, we could all claim at the same time, who Akira is, we could immediately confirm all the Phantom Thieves.
Of course, that level of cooperation and getting everyone to post at the exact same time so scum can't just copy+paste and sneak in would be nearly impossible.
I also though that maybe when we run someone to L-1, they could claim and also claim who they think Akira is, but if scum somehow know Akira's identity (But they shouldn't otherwise this game design gets real dumb), we could confirm out people before lynching them.
Of course, that does out Akira, who seems to be our most useful PR or something.

I see ZERO benefit to this... you say that Akira is our most useful pr but you previously say that you know who Akira is which means you're hunting for prs, and the fact that you want people to say their Akira suspect furthers my point

Basically, Chikorita's got a lot of focus/clarity on the real world/metaverse and how killing works between the two, but doesn't know who Akira is.
The only people who should have such a focus on the metaverse early are people who can go there, and, as far as I am aware, that's limited to Phantom Thieves and Scum.
As far as we are aware, though, the Phantom Thieves know the existence of Akira.

See how quickly Chikorita spins my play into PR hunting?

This all just doesn't seem to come from a town slot.

[Varsoon]

Oh, there's also a place in 577 where he starts casing me but literally omits things that would disprove his points.
I point this out and he brushes it off.

[Varsoon]

Specifically thinking of where he writes, "He tells Rational to drop the Mastina case because they must townread that slot, but delves no deeper than "drop it"."
However, in the very post he's complaining about and one just 7 posts later, I do elaborate:
"You pushing there with what you've got is going to bring this D1 down a black hole and I only see that coming from your slot as scum."
and
"Homie, I've modded over half a dozen games that Drixx has played in and at least one or two recently with mathblade.
I'm not seeing that push as town from them in the least. Their slot might be town, but this makes me doubt it, and the push itself is hugely anti-town."

When I call it misrepresentation via omission in my post 752, he eventually comes back with post 1231, stating:
"can you attempt to sound more pretentious next time please?

sorry that your activity strikes me as scum so I said something...?"

I fail to see what's pretentious about pointing out that Chikorita has misrepresented my play via omitting parts of it.
If there was something he didn't understand, he could've asked, but he went right into pushing it and claims my activity strikes him as scum.
That said, notice how much he's walked away from this (apparently well informed) scumread on me as many players have started to list me in their townreads.

It feels like scum testing waters, realizing the wagon didn't float, and abandoning it for something else.
There was never a legitimate moment where Chikorita was trying to engage with me without just slinging "I don't like what you are doing and let me present it wrong."

As for people Chikorita has voted, it's all been fairly safe votes like Mulch and Ramicus, with some speculation on voting Key before the replace out.

This is my most informed SR, and, honestly, even I think it's tenuous at best.

[Varsoon]

Even from the first point, though, Chikorita is making an assumption about me--that I'm townreading the Mastina/PurpleNurple slot.
However, that's not at all why I was asking for RationalNumbers to drop the Mastina/PurpleNurple push at the time.
The reality is that I've modded games where Mastina and Drixx have butted heads before and seen how this particular back and forth between them has played out, especially when it dips into the whole 'taking personal offense' territory. It's not healthy for either player, literally, and it isn't healthy for the game, and, largely, it's NAI and provides a huge fucking wall of text that other players have to scramble around for engagement. It's just not a good time. That's why I discouraged it. That's why I specifically brought up my modding history as well as called the push a 'black hole'. I didn't see that push coming from town-RationaleNumbers because they would've been aware of how heavily walling up against PurpleNurple early would negatively affect the entire game, but they've decided to do it anyway.

[Varsoon]

@Not Chara: Smocaine was the one that asked me about my Chikorita read, iirc.

@RationalDrixx: Absolutely remember that game and there was no way I should've gotten away with that. That said, this was after flips and other mod-confirmed info had come to light to inform a bit more. Right now, I don't quite get how you're playing this informed given the gamestate and it makes me really wary of your slot feigning its usual town rhetoric to scummy ends.

P-EDIT: Apologies, I know you offered an out/avoidance route, but the fact is that it still takes two to wall up against each other. It's really hard for me to read alignment into this, too, so it really doesn't help.

[Varsoon]

Oh, I've not been differentiating between the Chikorita heads because they haven't been signing posts.
I legitimately thought it was a singular player and not a hydra until just recently.

[Varsoon]

It's just made it really hard for me to focus on either of your slots and get a solid read, because I could see the play coming from either angle and pinning it one way or another is something out of my hands.
I'm interested in the other aspects of the game, other places we can focus, etc. I'd like you to put in the same sort of rigor towards sussing out what's going on with the rest of the playerbase--it's evident in your ISO from time to time, and I know we're waiting on a post from Math that'll provide some of that, but I'd still like it to be a continued effort rather than a footnote to appease before returning to the whole PurpleNurple push.

I am curious, though;
How should a gladiate actually be used?
As a mod, I've put it in games for flavor reasons, but I've never really stopped to think "Wait, shit, what is the real use of this mechanic?" and now that I'm thinking on it, all I can really think of (with a more traditional gladiate) is as a deadline extension. Anything else requires really specific info, like, that the gladiator has a guilty on the slot they are gladiating or they're diverting from a L-1 wagon on someone they have proof of town on, but don't want to out it or something?

[Varsoon]

Apologies, Brian, but I'm town.
Try once more.

[Varsoon]

I'm just saying I can't put a lot of stock in your judgment if you're scumreading me, is the thing.

[Varsoon]

It's twelve to lynch, Chesskid.
If either of those players were hated, they'd be at L-9.

[Varsoon]

If you check earlier, Ramicus' vote on Chikoritas ain't doing shit in the VC in post 1401:
ChikoritasInAction - 1 ( Ramcius ) L- 12

However, when Ramicus voted for RationalNumbers, as shown in the VC in post 575:
RationalNumbers - 1 ( Ramcius ) L- 11

So, it's gotta do with Chikoritas?
So, y'know, add ANOTHER point against them--they've got a unique voting mechanic that they haven't claimed, apparently. Or they did claim and I forgot and I'm full of shit.

[Varsoon]

@Reckoner: So if you know that someone is literally wrong, why would you trust what they have to say otherwise?

[Varsoon]

Well, he spelled out where he was wrong.
I'm not gonna combat him on that, like, it's his perspective, it's just wrong is all.

[Varsoon]

I'm a bit sad that my push on Chikoritas went nowhere, even when people agreed that a unclaimed loved modifier is probably a scum indicator.
But hey fuck me.

[Varsoon]

@NotChara: If you're looking for conviction, it's my best read so far in this shit show.

[Varsoon]

VOTE: Smocaine

[Varsoon]

VOTE: Chikoritas

I really, really want this wagon.
I thought no one else did, though. T_T

[Varsoon]

I don't particularly care if the Chikorita's wagon goes through or not but won't support it considering that's the wagon Varsoon really wants.

That's cold.

[Varsoon]

In a game of this size, with 6 days left, we should start to consolidate our votes.
If we don't agree on a wagon soon, we're going to have a last-minute swing or failure to lynch.
Both are not ideal options.

[Varsoon]

In a game of this size, with 6 days left, we should start to consolidate our votes.
If we don't agree on a wagon soon, we're going to have a last-minute swing or failure to lynch.
Both are not ideal options.

Or death sentencing from me.

Since one of our core mechanics is built around getting cop results from a deathless slot at night, I would save the death-sentencing for until night phase isn't as useful for us. But, yes, if deadline approaches and no one can consolidate on a wagon, just axe one if we're at, like, 1 hour left, please.

In a game of this size, with 6 days left, we should start to consolidate our votes.
If we don't agree on a wagon soon, we're going to have a last-minute swing or failure to lynch.
Both are not ideal options.

Could you explain your gripe with CIA like I’m 5?

Just go back and read my 1575 through 1580. Also, they had an unclaimed loved modifier.
I can't really simplify it more than:
-Their content knowledge is reflective of a scum position
-Their content knowledge and mechanics claimed are good fit for scum flavor
-Their play is scum play, intent on making sheeping easy wagons and negatively presenting other players over engagement/figuring out the game.

[Varsoon]

@Brian: Nevermind the part where I outline that's a bad plan.
And the whole point is that RationalNumbers softed 'Akira' in pre-game and would be a good gambit for town to play around.
But I guess you don't actually read ISOs or the game or whatever so when you see something you disagree with, you just do that instead of reading the whole context.
I still think what Mulch did was fucking stupid, but if you followed my posts since then, you'd know I'm townreading him regardless at this point.

[Varsoon]

Yo varsoon

The only people who should have such a focus on the metaverse early are people who can go there, and, as far as I am aware, that's limited to Phantom Thieves and Scum.

Did the mod say this somewhere or is this a flavor thing?

Both flavor and reflected in the claims so far.
Keep up.

[Varsoon]

Not to mention, Mulch gave warning posts that it wasn't a good idea to push his direction, and people pushed him anyway.

At that point, I thought that he was scum gambiting, not literally game-throwing town.
My fucking bad.

[Varsoon]

Well, I guess I'm dumb, but not as much as you, who's conjured a scumread based on an isolated incident removed from the larger context of my play.
You're so wrong that it drives me up a wall to try to engage with you over it.
I'll flip town, and if you're town (as I think you are), then I hope you'll apologize over being so wrong, so defiantly.

I think Elli's in the wrong for continuing to push Mulch after it became incredibly obvious Mulch was town. Moving forward, I at least tried my best to get reads post-Mulch and figure out how we could spin the now-public nature of Davsto=Akira into a net gain for town. Elli just doubled down on pushing Mulch, iirc. I don't know that that makes Elli scum, but it isn't pro-town play.

P-EDIT:
@Elli: Other people could be brought in by the Phantom Thieves/Conspiracy, but that was rare. People had to have a specific app on their phone in order to access the Metaverse of their own will and the only people who had that app were Phantom Thieves and Conspiracy.

@Chikoritas: No, I would not have outed Akira, but I did want to know what defense Mulch would've had if he couldn't rely on an Akira-claim to vindicate his slot. I was hoping to push Mulch to making a defense of his play/slot independent of the Akira claim.

@PurpleNurple: Based on claimed things alone, as much as I'd like to doubt them, yes.

[Varsoon]

I have a hard time engaging directly with heavily entrenched people.
I support you having your convictions and pushing them--that's how games get solved.
It's just maddening to have to fight against them.

[Varsoon]

@Yume:

Spoiler:

Oh! That show started? I'll have to check it out then~

[Varsoon]

As much as I'd prefer Chikoritas over Smocaine,
we have to form our votes together onto only one wagon or this isn't happening.

VOTE: Smocaine

[Varsoon]

We have 22 players.
In order to achieve a lynch, we literally need a single wagon with 12 on it.
You should have played enough large games to know that now is the time to start parsing down towards a majority wagon.

[Varsoon]

We have a role that can axe people at 6 votes too

as long as yume can promise to be online at least for a second to execute 6 hours before dl

i don't think 6 days means we need to create a single wagon, i think in an ideal world we'd have lynched by now but that isn't happening this game and i am not happy with the smocaine wagon being the only one.

And we're mod-confirmed to have a deathless cop that, upon copping a player, gets:
Further enabled with abilities while clearing town, or:
Enables a vigilante kill on guilities.

So doubling down on lynches with Yume's ability is actually ANTI-TOWN so long as we have this game state.
I wouldn't rely on it as an excuse to not shore up vanity wagons and agree on one or two primary wagons at this point, especially since we want to avoid last minute swings.
Furthermore, I wouldn't rely on Yume's capability to be present and capable of using the claimed ability anyway, given activity from the slot so far.

[Varsoon]

Oh, I was pretty sure Yume was claiming to be one of Igor's servants, who are the twins, Caroline & Justine.
They have access to 'execution' kinds of powers.

I have no clue about the Meredith stuff, as that's not even a name that shows up in Persona as far as I am aware.
/shrugs.

[Varsoon]

Eeeeh, I could argue it
At this point, a Yume lynch doesn't really get us any related info based on engagement with other players, though.
A Yume townflip would really hurt town and lead to another huge, meandering D2.

[Varsoon]

I'm against a lynch on Yume if only for the reasons that PurpleNurple stated: Yume would use the claimed 6-vote execution lynch, which is entirely what I want to avoid happening.

[Varsoon]

Role, AS CLAIMED, doesn't fit the Flavor, AS FAR AS YOU CAN TELL.
I think it's really premature to come down with as much pressure as you have without giving Yume space to reply.

I suggest we avoid lynching Yume for today, again. We have multiple ways to clear the slot and it's one of the weakest lynches you could propose, especially if Yume is town.

[Varsoon]

Let's not.
Elli, it's already been established that every scum had a fake-claim with full safe flavor to claim, so asking that sort of question is pointless.

[Varsoon]

As a mod who's built plenty of flavored large themes, I can tell you that your approach of 'checking flavor names of abilities' isn't ever going to catch scum, and if it does, you've caught them on a design flaw rather than based on game rhetoric, so it's not even a victory to be proud of. Any theme mod worth their salt has a backup provided with flavor that makes sense and, in the case that a player wants to claim something not in their role, mods often will provide appropriate flavor names for scum players who ask for them.

The reality is that level of flavor digging is a distraction at best and harmful to town, at worst.

[Varsoon]

Inhibits town players to solely claiming what's on their role PM (as they often do not get the same fake-claim privileges that scum/informed minority do)
Runs risk of clueless/bad town getting pegged over flavor
Runs risk of making NAI flavor more of a focus that the game at hand or mechanics
If scum have abilities that punish town based on flavor knowledge, it's harmful (rare, though I've run more than one theme where players could get killed if their flavor was guessed).

[Varsoon]

@Elli: Based on mechanics. There is some flavorspec involved, but it's highly tied to the mechanical conceits presented within the modpost containing the Akira role.

[Varsoon]

@Elli: Based on mechanics. There is some flavorspec involved, but it's highly tied to the mechanical conceits presented within the modpost containing the Akira role.

look flavor shit isn't my specialty
it's something I've never really had to deal with before this game.

I don't see why scum wouldn't have an obvious good guy pt fakeclaim.

If they didn't all the good guys pt just nameclaim and we'd have a giant townbloc yeah?

I went over this with Penguin--they very likely do have a good guy PT claim as one of their fakeclaims.
Mechanics-wise, though, it's very easy for us to confirm Mulch as lying/scum or town based on what we know from the setup.
Rather than running the risk of lynching out a town Mulch, there's more than one way for us to confirm Mulch via mechanics claimed/known true.
So it's not really an issue.

[Varsoon]

Honestly, this helps me sort out a lot things:
VOTE: Purple Nurple

Sorry Mastina, there's just too much against your slot and I think it's a way more informed lynch than any of our other options as of now.

[Varsoon]

I mean, why even test the waters like that? Just ask people to vote one place or another. Have some direction.

I think that the game is fine and the players are fine and your exasperation doesn't really read to me.

[Varsoon]

@Chara: Refer to Reckoner and RationalNumber's cases there.

@Purple: See above.

I'm not that surprised by the immediate OMGUS on me.
Also, Purple, I'm not FoS'ing anyone. I haven't all game. I think it's a lame mechanic and I'm avoiding it altogether. If I suspect someone, I'll just post about it to make it known or vote there.

[Varsoon]

I think there's plenty a good enough case for you being scum (multiple lies, insistent game-walling, fake-gladiate for no reason, etc.) AND the lynch nets good info.
It's less risk and higher reward than, like, all the other lynches we've got lined up today.
I mean, shit, I was only on Smocaine because I'm not a huge fan of his level of engagement and Davesaz parked there.

[Varsoon]

and the fuck do you mean "less risk"? you lose the game to rn when we flip town. we are an active hydra with two very experienced heads that have been productive content wise the entire game consistently.

Lol then we just lynch RN
Holy shit it's D1 in a 22p game, dude, not lylo.
Eat rope.

[Varsoon]

You can't fall back on the "if RN is town you fucked up by lynching us both" when you're literally saying "If you lynch us then RN wins!"

I've given my reasoning.
You're just being really thick.
I don't want to deal with it.

[Varsoon]

It does matter--which is why I'm pushing for a lynch on you.
You're taking what I've written out of context.
Your defense for not being lynched was that, somehow, RN wins if you get lynched.
But it's not LYLO. No one wins after the D1 lynch.
Unless you're just being petty and saying they 'win' some sort of argument about who should be lynched first.
At which point, you're not even game-solving, you're just getting caught up in some me vs them garbage argument.

[Varsoon]

Yeah, see, I don't think your ISO 'bleeds town' and you writing that kind of thing is obnoxious.

[Varsoon]

Time invested doesn't make you town.
You're not being 'info lynched', stop insisting on it, you have two whole votes on your wagon.

[Varsoon]

Being invested doesn't make you town, either.

[Varsoon]

Spoiler: OOG

When is your next game coming, Var-Var? Also, did you like Houseki no Kuni?

Spoiler: Not-Game Related

November--I had a game in the works that I'm probably going to end up publishing as a mini-theme around then. I'll give more updates on it as we get closer, along with a proper advert and everything.

Yume, Is there anything else you'd like to engage with? Your slot is a huge question mark for a lot of people.

[Varsoon]

Oh, and I saw the first episode so far and thought it was really cute.

[Varsoon]

I'd rather not, Reck.

VOTE: Kise

Purple Nurple managed to just be shrill and obnoxious and complain to the point that I'm just going to hope they get NK'd or something.

[Varsoon]

Maybe a third party'll take care of them or something?

I'm bummed as fuck that I've gotta sheep these other gross wagons because my scumreads are too removed from what the masses are willing to plod behind.
Chumps.

[Varsoon]

i have a bulletproof claim so if someone wants to go ahead and do the thing where we get me near L-1 then I claim and everyone scrambles to unvote, we can do that

or we can skip the whole process and not out my role, your call

Or we can see that shit is scummy as fuck in a game with 22 players BP is not alignment indicative. And since you're trying to claim something NAI and say it is why we shouldn't lynch you you get a shiny vote.

VOTE: xReckonerX

--Math

...they're saying that what they would claim is 'bullet proof', as in, it's a claim that would prove they are town--not that they are immune to kills holy shit

[Varsoon]

Every time we get a new post from either of PurpleNurple or RationalNumbers, that shit is maddening.
I'm glad we've got less than 72 hours to deadline, because holy shit, I don't know how much more of this I can take.

[Varsoon]

Every time we get a new post from either of PurpleNurple or RationalNumbers, that shit is maddening.
I'm glad we've got less than 72 hours to deadline, because holy shit, I don't know how much more of this I can take.

WHy are you voting Kise? They are towny to me

There's a case against them and I'm sick of the day and just want it to be over with.

[Varsoon]

I'm p sure Chikoritas is scum btw

Same.
VOTE: Chikoritas.

[Varsoon]

chess, Brian, varsoon, reck, dave, ram were all on both wagons at their biggest points. thats 75% of the same people. ew.

this is a useless post brought to you by drunken Eddie. goodnigjt.

What's gross about that?
Last I checked, Smocaine isn't confirmed for shit and people going for Kise instead of just doubling down and sticking to Smocaine should reflect town more than scum.

[Varsoon]

yo varsoon how long are the days going to be for your blitz theme

72 hours. I'll edit it into the advert for the game.

[Varsoon]

See, I don't like how you put 'push' in quotes like that.

[Varsoon]

Yo ali, what would have happened if dave targeted a living kise

Mod probably won't answer that as it is written.
Ask about AKIRA visiting Kise's role, maybe?

[Varsoon]

Did Yume ever actually even claim miller?
I thought they just said they were both scum and town.
Regardless, seems like a weird thing to get stuck up on, RN.

[Varsoon]

Why would I mention that? Because I am a miller and I was under the impression that millers should claim being millers as soon as possible.

Oh, nah, ISO'd and they did.
Regardless

[Varsoon]

yo varsoon
how many scum are in this settup.

Probably 5 and an SK.
I wouldn't be surprised if there was a traitor and that's the player with a PT claim, meaning he can't communicate to the major scumteam who akira is.

[Varsoon]

I think that gives scum a lot of information that I'd rather not.

[Varsoon]

Considering how important arcana publicly are for town, I wouldn't be surprised if it was privately something important for scum.

[Varsoon]

Considering how important arcana publicly are for town, I wouldn't be surprised if it was privately something important for scum.

What do you mean

Arcana are a huge part of this game. It's practically a public mechanic--every player has an arcana and town has an IC that 'collects' those Arcana to enable new abilities.
If you're a mod designing a game, you're not going to make a public mechanic only benefit town. Scum will have some way of interacting with that mechanic.
As a rule of design, massclaim should always hurt town. If we give scum a roadmap of our claimed arcana, I believe it would do more harm than good, as it seems that neither Akira nor any Arcana holder knows what abilities their arcana bestow.

yo varsoon
how many scum are in this settup.

Probably 5 and an SK.
I wouldn't be surprised if there was a traitor and that's the player with a PT claim, meaning he can't communicate to the major scumteam who akira is.

I hate this post by Varsoon. Because reasons.

Someone asked me what I thought and I answered. I hate your post, and the reason is that you're being totally indirect with what you're taking umbrage with here. In fact, not very far from here, you hate on me for not doing a ton of setup spec, which you should already know is fucking NAI from my slot, despite this literally being a setup spec post.

Did Yume ever actually even claim miller?
I thought they just said they were both scum and town.
Regardless, seems like a weird thing to get stuck up on, RN.

Varsoon needs death. Same with PN.

Varsoon you're breaking my heart here. </3

You're supposed to be setup spec royalty. Guess that falls to me and my hydra buddy instead.

Can it, I've done plenty.
The fact that you're turning on me so hard here is a huge red flag for me on your slot.
You're almost always more substantiated than this.
Why would you have such a negative reaction to me calling you out on getting hung up on the Yume death?
What's baffling is how quickly so many people are writing of the Alchemist death as a scum-team kill and the Yume death as a vig shot. The people who are doing that are scum slipping hard, imo--not just because it reflects someone who is sure of where kills are coming from (informed minority, ie scum) but it also pings to me as someone trying to out a potential vig so that the scum can kill/control them. You're one of these people. I have no qualms over seeing you eat rope.

I'm p sure Chikoritas is scum btw

Same.
VOTE: Chikoritas.

Chikoritaa wagon isn't terrible, but do you have other scumreads? i've found the thread a lot easier to parse since the last time we had a reads discussion.

I still don't know what to make of the whole Elli/Mulch back and forth, but I'm pretty solidly scumreading Rational Numbers. S'bout it, though. I'm doing garbage this game.
I'm really not happy with the speed of the mulch wagon, but I've just backspaced vote-sheeping there and re-voted and backspaced like three times so I dunno.

[Varsoon]

The only people I've noticed really hedge out the yume death as a vig shot are, awkwardly enough, RationalNumbers and PurpleNurple.
Purple called for a vig there, so it makes sense that they'd think it was a vig regardless of alignment, but RN's been making a huge deal out of to the point that I really think they've got an ulterior motive beyond frustration over it.

[Varsoon]

I'm not really scumreading mulch for the hard defense of Kise, and I'm not won over by meta arguments that Elli's made against Mulch.
While not a fan of how Mulch has approached the game in a lot of ways, I don't really see it as damning, and, frankly, the speed of the Mulch wagon has me hesitant to join it.
That said, I'm not really townreading the slot, either, so, ugh.

[Varsoon]

Varsoon: Math seems to be making a huge deal out of it because they believe it was a bad shot. i still don't understand their logic on why the miller was more likely to be town, but i sort of get how they

could

think it. the rest of it is just more reasons to continue the Purple Nurple tunnel.
i don't know. it unfortunately still has me thinking town Mathblade. they weren't like this in Shadowrun and Inception. (both scum) i'm going to go over their setup spec opinions in British Monarchy (town) and get back to you.

Why dedicate so many posts to it?
Why jump down my throat when I call them out for being so hung up over it?
I can get town frustration over a perceived 'bad shot', but the fact they think it was a vig shot over an SK kill and they'd go so far as to even paint it as a 'scum' vig read a lot to me like they have info we don't (ie: scum) and they're trying to justify a witch hunt for a vig. Couple that with them doubling down against Purple Nurple on D1 and I don't really think they've coming from a town PoV.

[Varsoon]

Purple Nurple's play around thinking it's a vig shot makes way, way more fucking sense from a town perspective. I can follow a clear trajectory in the thought that reflects that they'd think it's a vig and their recent post 3350 lays it out in a way that's clear and reflects a consistent point of view on the whole thing. On the other hand, Rational Numbers is making such a fuss out of it and seems to be doing a lot to bait the vig out. It doesn't read as town to me, imo. If they wanted a town vig to take better shots, they wouldn't be playing that way.

[Varsoon]

I can't say that I have, but I also have shit memory and I don't take game notes. Ask mathblade?

[Varsoon]

The fuck kind of riddle bullshit are you speaking in, RN?

[Varsoon]

VOTE: Mulch

I'm not really scumreading mulch for the hard defense of Kise, and I'm not won over by meta arguments that Elli's made against Mulch.
While not a fan of how Mulch has approached the game in a lot of ways, I don't really see it as damning, and, frankly, the speed of the Mulch wagon has me hesitant to join it.
That said, I'm not really townreading the slot, either, so, ugh.

What do you think about the part where he outted dave for no reason and you guys let him get away with it? Why can't mulch be the traitor you're talking about?

VOTE: mulch

If he doesn't flip this shit after you gave him the road to, I'mma be hella pissed.

[Varsoon]

Lunch break over.

I fucking caught you and Drixx caught Varsoon.

Y'all can eat rope.

You haven't caught shit.
You weren't a part of catching any scum at all this game so far.
Furthermore, I'm town, so, great 'catch'.

[Varsoon]

Don't worry 'bout it if he flips Goro.

[Varsoon]

VOTE: Penguin Power

Creature is scum with them.
Rational Numbers isn't scum.

[Varsoon]

No, you're just scum.

[Varsoon]

Oh, d'oh.
I'm a cop with a guilty on creature.
I also am a mandatory vigilante. I killed Yume.
I tried killing Creature last night but it failed.
I have an inno on Rational Numbers.

[Varsoon]

VOTE: Creature

[Varsoon]

You're not aligned with the Phantom Thieves.

[Varsoon]

Yeah, I have the same ability, jackass.

[Varsoon]

It's really not. The second I claim, my number is up, and there's plenty about my role I haven't claimed.

[Varsoon]

It's seemingly good, sure, but since 2 of the flipped scum so far give false results on cop checks and since Kise and you are both immune to being killed, my role really isn't that effective at trouncing scum, is it?

[Varsoon]

Oh, d'oh.
I'm a cop with a guilty on creature.
I also am a mandatory vigilante. I killed Yume.
I tried killing Creature last night but it failed.
I have an inno on Rational Numbers.

anything special about last night?

Lots of stuff is special about last night.
1. My kill failed even though it should not have.
2. I was informed of a Metaverse change.
3. I began today enabled with powers related to Realworld/Metaverse.

Varsoon has an inno lmao

He's pulling a gambit. Tomorrow he'll come with "oh, I don't know what happened..."

I got two results of 'not phantom thief' on you, dude.

[Varsoon]

I really would've made the town faction called something different that "Phantom Thieves," because that rhetorical distinction is pretty fucking huge.

Creature's not a PHANTOM THIEF, but that doesn't make him guilty.
He is BP though, and that combined with not being a Phantom Thief

does

ping me really hard.

[Varsoon]

Hold on.

[Varsoon]

OK. Varsoon, you are aware that as a member of the metaverse you can only target other players in the metaverse? That's probably why your kill failed.

I can travel between the two. I was in the real world last night, which explains the kill failure now, which is... annoying.
I basically just outted my entire role and fucked us over because I was under the impression I was getting ALIGNMENT results and that I'd only get those results when an action connected--that if my kill failed due to the metaverse/real world distinction, so too would my Phantom Thief check.

[Varsoon]

When I asked about the Phantom Thief results via PM, I wish that it was spelled out to me that ALIGNMENT Phantom Thief and people with the Phantom Thief passive are different and that the Phantom Thief passive doesn't check alignment.

[Varsoon]

Yeah, so, anyway, not a guilty on Creature, but is probably an inno on RN.
And I'm an idiot so please just scum kill me ASAP so I can die in shame.

[Varsoon]

Alisae's telling me if my action succeeds, I'll get a result for the Phantom thief check but if it fails, I get no result.
I got results on Creature when both my other ability hit them and when my Compulsive Vig hit them.

[Varsoon]

Well hold on, what result did you get on creature? He claims to have been in the metaverse and you claim to have been in the real world, unless your role specifies you shouldn't have been able to get any action at all off from what I understand

Okay, so
I have the following:
Passive of PHANTOM THIEF: If I target a player with any ability, I learn if they are a phantom thief or not
COMPULSIVE Night Kill: I have to kill someone every night.
COMPULSIVE Day Roleblock: I have to roleblock someone every day.

D1: I roleblocked Rational Numbers, at night I got the result that they are a Phantom Thief.
N1: I killed Yume.
D2: I roleblocked Creature, at night I got the result that they were not a Phantom Thief.
N2: I attempted to kill Creature, at daystart I got the result that they were not a Phantom Thief.

I've been in the real world this whole time.

[Varsoon]

I claimed that mostly to throw people off my track
I've been in the real world the whole time.

[Varsoon]

I'd eliminate Purple Nurple, Rational Numbers, Leonshade, Ellibereth, Brian Skies, Ramcius and WhemeStar from being last scum here.

Any townread here you want explained?

why you think only 1 scum left?

@Varsoon, why you targeted Creature?

With my day roleblock?
I forgot to target anyone with it on D2, since I was holding on to it to later in the day, but since it's compulsive, it randomized and hit Creature.

What I'm saying is weird is that, even though Creature claimed to be in the Metaverse on D2/N2, my real-world Day Roleblock and Night Kill both hit him.

[Varsoon]

Notably, I hit Penguin Power with my roleblock today because I was worried the calling card might give him some special day abilities.

[Varsoon]

I targeted Yume.
As far as they had claimed, their instant-lynch was a huge liability and I was under the impression it continued the day, despite the night being such a useful resource from what I could tell by Akira's role and my own.

[Varsoon]

@Varsoon -- Please long and hard before answering this question and if you don't understand after contemplating (like at least 24 hours of thought) just say I don't understand.

In a past life would you have had a dog, owned an airplane, and been a computer hacker among other things?

I have no idea what game you're referencing.
Just ask me, more direct-like?


Stranger Things Season 2 already kinda sucks and I'm not even 5 minutes in. :/


I honestly feel really like I'm over this game, like I blew my load all pre-mature and now I'm just ashamed and don't feel like engaging.

[Varsoon]

I guess I'll make this easy.

Gladiate: Creature

[Varsoon]

VOTE: Creature

Or lynch me, it's that easy
Blammo

[Varsoon]

Now I sort of feel like a prick for worrying that Yume could hold the game hostage/mess up the game state too much with their power and killing them, when I'm basically DSC'ing a homie.

[Varsoon]

Here are the FACTS:
Creature is NOT a Phantom Thief.
Creature claimed to exist in the metaverse (at a time where I was claiming to have been in the metaverse)--something that non-Phantom Thieves shouldn't do anyway, but that aside entirely;
Both my real-world roleblock and kill successfully landed on Creature, and Creature has no explanation for why that would be the case if they were, as they claimed, in the metaverse.

[Varsoon]

That's why I earlier asked how an actual gladiate should even be used and, I think you, said that it should be used to pin down guilties.

[Varsoon]

@RN: Cold... holy one? Dude, I have no clue, just directly ask me.

And I though the fake gladiate from Mastina was weird as hell and out of character.

[Varsoon]

Also, some characters reside in the Metaverse (see Igor, the twins).

That does not explain why my kill and roleblock would've successfully connected from the real world, though.

[Varsoon]

I'mma be really real here: based on my role results and the flips so far, there's a chance Creature doesn't flip scum, but I'm gonna occam's razor and say that's not the case.

[Varsoon]

@Brian: Oh, yeah, except I'm not scum, so, try again.

[Varsoon]

@Math: I really, really just want you to explain all these references so I can go "OOOOOH" and realize I'm dumb. Maybe in post-game?

[Varsoon]

I feel like the last one was a reference to FFTMafia.
But yeah, if Creature's scum, I expect to be dead pretty soon, so maybe send word ahead to the mod so I can know right when I die?

[Varsoon]

@Brain: Not going to happen. If I was scum, no fucking way would I ever use a gladiate except to bus.
Wait shit

[Varsoon]

Thought it was?
Regardless
Hey it's a real Gladiate, don't you feel like a chump now for faking one?

[Varsoon]

Hey guys! Fun fact!
We busdrove Creature and Yume N1 and we know we weren't roleblocked.
VOTE: Varsoon

That shit makes zero sense.
I killed Yume N1.
Yume is dead.

[Varsoon]

can we get a full claim from creature and varsoon?

I'm Ryuji Sakamoto, the Phantom thief also known as Skull. I offer the Chariot Arcana.
I have the Phantom Thief passive, which tells me if any player I target is also a Phantom thief.
I have the metaverse app, which lets me travel from the real world to the metaverse.
Because I'm such a delinquent, I'm hated and take one less vote to lynch.
In both the real world and metaverse, I am required to make a kill at night.
In the real world, I am required to roleblock someone every day phase.
In the metaverse, I am able to gladiate a player.

D1, I roleblocked Rational Numbers--they are a Phantom Thief.
N1, I killed Yume.
D2, I roleblocked Creature--they are not a Phantom Thief.
N2, I tried to kill Creature--they are still alive, but I got the "Not a Phantom thief" result, confirming my kill did successfully hit them.
D3, I roleblocked PenguinPower.

That should be everything.

[Varsoon]

As far as I'm aware from how it's described and been flipped so far, all Phantom Thieves have the Phantom Thief passive.
But that doesn't mean all people ALIGNED as a Phantom Thief are Phantom Thieves and/or have the Phantom thief passive, because lol words

[Varsoon]

I already cased CiA, they're the next scum to die after Creature, it's all G in the H.

[Varsoon]

VOTE: Varsoon
Obviously scum tried to kill creature and they're trying to figure out how Yume died and/or get rid of someone they think must be BP.

Yeah, that's why scum would 1v1 them when they're down on numbers, makes total sense.

[Varsoon]

Like, holy shit, Dave, just send me a fucking calling card.
It's that easy to sort me out.
Lynch creature.