Surreptitious II: Secrets and Misdirection

[Creature]

Okay, I returned from trip and I gotta read 33 pages of the game thread (or just skip em all).

If I am being wagoned for inactivity, I'm deathtunneling the first one that voted me for "inactivity"

[Creature]

Mod

Can you put the heads that compose hydra insides parentheses next to the hydra name at the playerlist?

[Creature]

Page 2

Group B so far feels like the best group to start.

[Creature]

Page 3

Group C I can PoE more easily I guess

[Creature]

Rach is town

[Creature]

Yeah, it's been awhile since I've played with her, and I kinda remember that she tends to ask questions that most people would think are deceptive at face value. Part of me goes "I hate that question." while another part goes "Yeah, but I think that's just a Rach thing.", and then I shrug and think I'll just wait to see how things play out. Overall, I like how your group is sorting itself out.

is town

[Creature]

Page 5

Not yet want settle on Group B.

[Creature]

Page 6

Actually page 6 had nothing special

Though, I want to say I already got one scumread (which might change or might not change)

[Creature]

I'm MariaRreading Mikan btw

[Creature]

Guess LUV is town then.

[Creature]

Page 10

What players think about Rauther here?

[Creature]

Townreading Assemble for now.

[Creature]

Group A (0): [L-11]

Group B (6): checkersman7, Ginngie,

Thor665, InactionDan, Desperado

, Mikan Tsumiki [L-5]

Group C (3): Transcend, ConManMick, Assemblerotws [L-8]

Scum potentially concentrated here.

[Creature]

Page 11

Tagging WhyMafia "need to be checked further"

[Creature]

we're long past Rathscum. we on LUV softing scum rn

Woops, I missed this.

Did you scumread Rauth before? Until when? Where was LUV softing scum?

[Creature]

Page 13

SnarkySnowman is town

[Creature]

Page 14

Who else townreads InactionDan other than checkers?

[Creature]

Rauth town, Ginngie town

I just scrolled a couple of pages

Group A (0): [L-11]

Group B (7): checkersman7,

Ginngie,

InactionDan, Desperado, Mikan Tsumiki, WhyMafia, Majiffy

[L-4]

Group C (7): Transcend,

ConManMick, Assemblerotws, Bulbezak,

Thor665,

SnarkySnowman, Rautherdir

[L-4]

[Creature]

Group A (0): [L-11]

Group B (6): checkersman7, Ginngie,

Thor665, InactionDan, Desperado

, Mikan Tsumiki [L-5]

Group C (3): Transcend, ConManMick, Assemblerotws [L-8]

Scum potentially concentrated here.

Is this read external to this awful attempt at VCA or are you just doing really bad VCA?

I could see any of them as scum, it being a VCA is just secondary.

[Creature]

Be aware that there is a somewhat loose rule against posting too much and too little. We don't want to have to take it any further because we want people to be able to gauge for themselves if they are posting too much or too little, but if it gets out of hand, we are prepared for that.

Oh right, forgot about that rule.

[Creature]

Is Majiffy tunneling anyone btw?

[Creature]

oh yeah elli's scum

Why?

[Creature]

Page 24

Group B and Group C are the best groups to choose from so far.

[Creature]

Okay, post 700 maybe points that Mikan isn't so MariaR therefore easier to read.

[Creature]

Desperado - he's lurking for days. This is our D1 lynch.

[Creature]

Creature - He's not going to win games but he's okay

Okay, Mikan is Alisae then.

[Creature]

Page 33

Elliberetta scum

[Creature]

Group A	Group B	Group C
EddieFenix Assemblerotws Bulbazak WhyMafia Elliberetta InactionDan Creature	Majiffy Rautherdir SnarkySnowman Thor665 momo Lil Uzi Vert ConManMick	vonflare Desperado RachMarie checkersman7 Transcend Ginngie Mikan Tsumiki

[Creature]

Roughly in order:
[X] Become obvtown
[_] Make LicketyQuickety share all hydra heads
[_] Get an idea on checkers and Transcend mainly
[_] Ask players what they think about WhyMafia and [_] try to settle on a read on WhyMafia
[_] Ask players what they think about ConManMick and [_] try to think of a collective read on him
[_] Find out if there's something I need to know about InactionDan
[_] Did vonflare do something?
[_] Discuss about EddieFenix
[_] Re-check scumreads
[_] Re-check and solidify some townreads
[_] Discuss ex-townreads if there are ones
[_] Choose one of {Elliberetta, momo, Desperado} to lynch (if my scumreads don't change)

Am I missing something?

[Creature]

I elaborated on one of them if you want to take a look already.

[Creature]

I elaborated on one of them if you want to take a look already.

Pretend I'm incompetent and quote it for me

Desperado - he's lurking for days. This is our D1 lynch.

[Creature]

Second, there are no hydras allowed in this game, Creature.

Where is the rule against hydras in this game?

[Creature]

Trust tells have to be objective.

[Creature]

What bothers me about Elliberetta is that I haven't seen him doing something.

[Creature]

Roughly in order:
[X] Become obvtown
[_] Make LicketyQuickety share all hydra heads
[_] Get an idea on checkers and Transcend mainly
[_] Ask players what they think about WhyMafia and [_] try to settle on a read on WhyMafia
[_] Ask players what they think about ConManMick and [_] try to think of a collective read on him
[_] Find out if there's something I need to know about InactionDan
[_] Did vonflare do something?
[_] Discuss about EddieFenix
[_] Get knowledge from other players about Majiffy and Thor665
[_] Re-check scumreads
[_] Re-check and solidify some townreads
[_] Discuss ex-townreads if there are ones
[_] Choose one of {Elliberetta, momo, Desperado} to lynch (if my scumreads don't change)

Maybe we should do this checklist...

(added one thing I missed)

[Creature]

Okay, maybe you aren't the ideal D1 lynch then.

I don't want to do Group A anyway.

[Creature]

Just put [X] on the second one.

[Creature]

[X] Make LicketyQuickety share all hydra heads -

Not hydras, just alts

[_] Get an idea on checkers and Transcend mainly -

I'd do that later

[_] Ask players what they think about WhyMafia and [_] try to settle on a read on WhyMafia -

Interesting start here

[Creature]

Anyone scumreads Assemble actually?

[Creature]

I guess I townread him because he only posted once so far lol

[Creature]

I am declaring a scum read on Creature. Ignoring the series of catchup posts as one could argue those either way, the checklist just makes him seem like scum posing as town.

Ignoring the AI part, focusing on the NAI part.

Nice.

[Creature]

Yeah, we shouldn't treat something X never did in the past as either alignment as scum indicative.

[Creature]

I want to see Creature out of catchup mode. That will tell me a lot more.

I'm out of catchup mode if you didn't notice.

What can we do now?

[Creature]

Desperado is more likely Mafia Traitor Power Role.

[Creature]

Atleast I'm not spamming one-word posts.

[Creature]

Atleast he's already getting prodded.

[Creature]

vonflare lean town btw.

[Creature]

For me, it's more choose group C and get rid of a traitor power role or choose group B and try the luck with PoE.

[Creature]

vonflare lean town btw.

Explain von town plz

See Assemblerowts.

[Creature]

Who Town: Majiffy, Thor, LUV

You can read Majiffy and Thor?

[Creature]

no idea where i'm messing up in group b but idrc rn

I have an idea...

[Creature]

momo may be scumz

Agree

[Creature]

this is scumisae btw

What are the characteristics of a Scumisae?

[Creature]

when you yourself have not made much of a presence prior to making those reads.

I was VLA, I had a reason, remember?

[Creature]

Meanwhile, scumreading Desp for "lurking"

Because some players are active town and lurker scum while some other players are active scum and lurker town.

[Creature]

Meanwhile, scumreading Desp for "lurking"

Because some players are active town and lurker scum while some other players are active scum and lurker town.

2 RL days is hardly justification for a lurker argument, is the point.

Unless that person is active elsewhere.

[Creature]

Group C is a good choice yes.

[Creature]

Roughly in order:
[X] Become obvtown
[X] Make LicketyQuickety share all hydra heads
[_] Get an idea on checkers and Transcend mainly
[_] Ask players what they think about WhyMafia and [_] try to settle on a read on WhyMafia
[_] Ask players what they think about ConManMick and [_] try to think of a collective read on him
[_] Find out if there's something I need to know about InactionDan
[_] Make lurkers do something
[_] Discuss about EddieFenix
[_] Get knowledge from other players about Majiffy and Thor665
[_] Wait Elliberetta become obvtown (or not)
[_] Have Desperado post good context
[_] Re-check scumreads
[_] Re-check and solidify some townreads
[_] Discuss ex-townreads if there are ones
[_] Lynch someone

[Creature]

Which should we do now?

[Creature]

Did you answer my question about Alisae before?

[Creature]

^Transcend

[Creature]

Also, why is LUV scum other than "this is a horrible post" posts?

[Creature]

The Dan one.

Okay, how much experience everyone has with ActionDan?

[Creature]

I only remember playing with scum!Dan, so I don't really know if he plays that way as town or not.

[Creature]

Not wagoning LUV rn

[Creature]

VOTE: Majiffy

[Creature]

[X] Become obvtown
[X] Make LicketyQuickety share all hydra heads

[_] Get an idea on checkers and Transcend mainly

- Don't care

[_] Ask players what they think about WhyMafia and [_] try to settle on a read on WhyMafia

- Don't care
[_] Ask players what they think about ConManMick and [_] try to think of a collective read on him

[_] Find out if there's something I need to know about InactionDan

- Don't care
[_] Make lurkers do something

[_] Discuss about EddieFenix

[_] Get knowledge from other players about Majiffy and Thor665
[_] Wait Elliberetta become obvtown (or not)
[_] Have Desperado post good context
[_] Re-check scumreads
[_] Re-check and solidify some townreads
[_] Discuss ex-townreads if there are ones
[_] Lynch someone

[Creature]

SNOWMAN

HOW HOW DO YOU DISTINGUISH BETWEEN

TOWNSNOWMAN
AND SCUMSNOWMAN

TYVM

TownSnowman does stuff sometimes.

[Creature]

creature irrelevant for today

What?

dan is way more likely town than not

Okay

100% lock like chesskid

Interesting...

[Creature]

Okay, let me make a checklist specifically for that group then.

[Creature]

Does snarky read the thread as either alignment.

I can't tell.

[Creature]

[_] See if Majiffy will change to town
[_] Look deeper on Rautherdir
[_] Have SnarkySnowman do more stuff
[_] Important analyse on Thor665
[_] Re-sort momo
[_] See if I can solidify my townread on Lil Uzi Vert or not
[_] Try to get others to sort ConManMick

[Creature]

I'd not be surprised if Majiffy and Thor were the scum from the Group B.

[Creature]

Desperado is the scum's group C power role.

[Creature]

I guess the point of this game isn't to lynch every player with a red role PM, but rather every mafia goon. So if we lynch the mafia goon from Group B, we only choose from Group A or Group C next time.

[Creature]

Majiffy

Rautherdir
SnarkySnowman

Thor665
momo

Lil Uzi Vert

ConManMick

Not lynching strikes

[Creature]

If anyone's here, answer: Which of {Majiffy, Thor665, momo, ConManMick} can you sort easier?

[Creature]

Eventually every player in Group B will have a vote against.

[Creature]

We aim for the goon. Simple.

[Creature]

Not playing the game =/= red role pm

Like we say, it depends. The ideal is that green role PMs should automatically play the game or atleast try to.

[Creature]

I feel like Mikan's actually not reading anything I say.

Any stuff yours we can take a look at?

[Creature]

If you don’t read posts you don’t know someone is town?

If I've read some posts that make me confident X is town...

[Creature]

i want luv to claim

I don't want any early claims.

[Creature]

[_] Bulbazak and EddieFenix properly analysed

[Creature]

No one's claiming rn.

[Creature]

Okay whatever

VOTE: CMM

[Creature]

Is there anything we can do meanwhile?

[Creature]

I'm struggling to read momo actually. So maybe we could take a look here.

[Creature]

I scumread it, since mostly I don't really understand how Town can get a strong read off of Snarky's two post with the anlysis he provided.

I also townread Snarky off a few posts.

[Creature]

However I feel like if he wasn't groupscum he would getting a lot more attention then what he currently is getting since he claims to be lynchbaity.

There's LUV though.

[Creature]

I wouldn't scumread Mikan off that.

[Creature]

Btw, does someone have a case for CMM?

[Creature]

Thinking Thor is scum too, but something makes me hesitate to lynch him today.

[Creature]

Too coasty.

[Creature]

Who we're totally not lynching today out of Group B?

[Creature]

Something wrong with SnarkySnowman?

[Creature]

I'm slowly going down to {Majiffy, Thor, CMM} on Group B.

[Creature]

I'm slowly going down to {Majiffy, Thor, CMM} on Group B.

Can you explain Thor and Maj?

PoE and plus slight meta.

[Creature]

Desperado and EddieFenix are my outside Group B scumreads.

[Creature]

No one's even cased Thor and the overall attention on him bothers me

Plus, I think he's town.

Remember that traitors aren't known to anyone else.

[Creature]

Traitors should be told who the goons are, not who the other traitors are. Goons obviously don't know the traitors.

[Creature]

We could like try to sort CMM based off what he already posted?

[Creature]

I wonder why CMM hasn't been prodded yet.

[Creature]

Are there no prods this game?

[Creature]

Not voting (5): EddieFenix, Elliberetta, vonflare, RachMarie, Ginngie

EddieFenix is one scum here. Are there other scum?

[Creature]

Oh nice, Group A and Group C have the tastiest easiest scum lynches, but not group B.

[Creature]

Not voting (5): EddieFenix, Elliberetta, vonflare, RachMarie, Ginngie

EddieFenix is one scum here. Are there other scum?

Probably Von.

[Creature]

Eddie looks so Hunger Games II.

[Creature]

Is that a problem?

Yes, him coming up and acting like there's nothing to answer to.

[Creature]

Thor like "abort conversation"

[Creature]

Lesson we learned: Never make a prodless game.

[Creature]

CMM wagon died, so:

VOTE: Majiffy

[Creature]

Ramcius replaces Mikan Tsumiki.

lol

[Creature]

I am identifying a Assemble.

Assemble, what is your opinion on Majiffy? Is the wagon on him good?

[Creature]

anyway, is it worth reading thread?

This is a prodless game, so scum might intentionally avoid posting in the thread if you read just from here.

[Creature]

If you ignore checkers and Transcend, you'll find plenty of interesting posts to look at.

[Creature]

VOTE: CMM

[Creature]

Mod

Don't post too much;

don't post too little.

If it gets out of hand, we will take further action.

Check Assemble.

[Creature]

Not sure why CMM is being wagoned more now he still needs to say things. TBH I'm not even sure if he knows we picked Group B yet.

If not CMM, then who?

[Creature]

Especially with

snarky

Majiffy and Thor as an option

[Creature]

momo

How can you tell the difference between TownSnarky and ScumSnarky?

[Creature]

...+GIVE CMM A CHANCE TO SPEAK...

He has been online quite a lot on the forums...

[Creature]

I hope he's aware the wagon won't shift away from him if he keeps dodging the thread and that soon it'll be too late to switch wagons.

[Creature]

UNVOTE:

Still gonna wait.

[Creature]

Nah, he wasn't.

[Creature]

Btw, can next day we pick a group with scum that are obvious?

[Creature]

Group C

Desperado

[Creature]

Gonna hope this day was productive.

[Creature]

So much scum theater happening. I doubt CMM is flipping scum now.

[Creature]

Looks like hammer to me, which means I can analyze the rest of the wagon tomorrow.

This is the only post that doesn't feel scum theater rn.

[Creature]

VOTE: Group B

[Creature]

Majiffy is going down today guys.

[Creature]

Btw, the EOD1 was pretty much full of scum theater.

[Creature]

Yeah, InactionDan is also scum.

[Creature]

We get Majiffy today, if he flips anything but goon we do Group B again, otherwise we do Group A and we lynch InactionScum.

[Creature]

I'm like pretty sure the scum on Group B are Majiffy and Thor.

[Creature]

Oh right, if we do Group B we can't mislynch.

[Creature]

I guess we already have scum in a silver platter from Group B, we just got distracted with CMM.

[Creature]

This isn't how town!Majiffy plays.

This is how I expect scum!Thor to play.

[Creature]

The wagon on Majiffy kept failing and failing.

[Creature]

If we're doing a different group:
Group A: Lynch InactionDan
Group C: Lynch Desperado

[Creature]

I found another scum:

Spoiler:

[Creature]

Wanna do Group C then?

[Creature]

We're lynching Thor then?

[Creature]

Who's scummier out of EddieFenix and Bulbazak?

[Creature]

Okay, maybe lynching inside Group B is worth a shot.

[Creature]

I've blatantly been the most townish player in my group

lol what?

[Creature]

Ramcius, who are you planning to lynch?

[Creature]

Curiousity of the day: Did you know that in order for someone to be lying it must be an objective statement?

[Creature]

but i think it's town suck

There are Desp and Ginn and town!Eddie thinks checkers is the best lynch from Group C?

[Creature]

Thor, who's scum in your group?

Because for me, by PoE it's you and Majiffy.

[Creature]

I played Newbie 1725 where you were very very obvious scum but town just didn't get in time to start a wagon on you then completely forgot about it next day, remember?

[Creature]

The list of the 8 people who got "distracted" by the CMM lynch

We were expecting CMM to do something.

[Creature]

Btw, did anyone realise EddieFenix managed to make a wallpost with zero reads?

[Creature]

We tried to wagon Majiffy, remember?

[Creature]

It was a lot easier pushing Majiffy lynch in Biochemistry.

[Creature]

Watch out, there are Micks in the other two groups.

Assemble in Group A, vonflare in Group C.

I townread both of them though.

[Creature]

Ginngie is also caught scum. Just check the VCs.

[Creature]

I agree with Assemble but not Von.

But yes, they’re Micks.

I'd expect scum!vonflare to be more invested.

[Creature]

Okay cool, now who's the greatest lynch from Group B?

[Creature]

Also dan is close to 100% town by meta.

I thought his EOD1 was a planned scum theater with Majiffy.

[Creature]

Does Von like playing as scum?

I'm guessing he does.

I'll still hope the mod eventually replaces him and Assemble out.

[Creature]

Maybe if we end doing Group A I'd lynch one of {Bulbazak, EddieFenix} first.

[Creature]

There's nothing sadder than someone not wanting to wagon Majiffy.

[Creature]

A real beetlejuice is the one that appears only when mentioned, does almost nothing and then leaves the same way as appears.

[Creature]

In group A it's a choice between Whymafia / Eddie / Assemble, but I sort of remember Whymafia being vaguely town. This is probably the group I'd be most interesting in sorting atm.

I honestly don't understand the raging boner people have for majiffy. The CMM lynch was brave and valiant.

Why do you townread Bulba?

[Creature]

Also the other benefit of lynching in A is that creature gets shot.

The other benefit of lynching in A is that you will be lynched very soon.

[Creature]

we can vote snarky.

[Creature]

I'm more confident about Desp and Ginn both being scum, but if town will act like "preserve the PRs"...

[Creature]

Here I am seeing Desperado post something in the scum PT.

[Creature]

See, this makes me incredibly nervous. Mr. "I can't even make up my mind when it's a 1v1 with me involved" Creature somehow has locked down reads on Desp and Gin and is yelling game solved? I don't think so. There's something seriously wrong with this picture, and it makes me think that one or both of Desp or Gin are designated mislynches. However, looking at my own PoE, I'm not sure where that puts the scum.

So I am scum setting a mislynch on one of them?

[Creature]

Again, locked down reads from a player that's never been able to make up his mind as town. Ever.

That's false. I'm lazy to find examples, but I had deja-vu moments quite a lot.

[Creature]

BIOCHEMISTRY is a good example.
Subject: BIOCHEMISTRY - game over, finally, it's only been 5 months

Creatue is very likely scum and you caught onto a few things Titus so you can have free town points.

-Rick

Yeah, Rem and Ram and Rick and Andrea and caught scum.

[Creature]

I appreciate your effort, but no one's getting me lynched.

[Creature]

and his reads are what's popular

Probably I was the one that made them popular.

in the 2 groups that are not him

Means nothing.

and protecting possible lynch bait.

Okay sure, because that's scum's job.

[Creature]

So why is Assemble not scum?

Because he's known for lurking as town and being active as scum + he had genuine posts like 1778 where while everybody was 'flailing' he posted something more serious.

[Creature]

Strike that, Transcend is on C. Ball is still in your court Creature.

Ramcius is the main proponent of Group B, I'm still open for other groups specially Group C.

tbf I feel somewhat confident we can get scum at Group B.

[Creature]

I'd softly put money on Majiffy and the Snowman guy.

I townread Snowman because of his activity.

But we're together on Majiffy atleast.

[Creature]

So you're saying my scum meta is that I'm super obvious scum and that's what I'm doing in this game?

You'd probably be hanging back and only making sure the wagon isn't on you.

[Creature]

I thought we were supposed to wait for a guilty first.

[Creature]

And making reads based on activity is bad, especially when that is a really easy trait to change.

Not when the player seemingly doesn't attempt to change.

[Creature]

UNVOTE:

Going to wait until tomorrow then.

[Creature]

Because when checking VCs I noticed Ginn just staying in the "Not voting" section or in the CMM wagon.

[Creature]

Activity is nai. Period.

Most of the time, not every time.

[Creature]

Maybe if we lynch Desperado we'll be happier next day.

[Creature]

I legitimately prefer it if a player prodges the entire game rather than replaces out

I prefer the player would replace out rather than be apathetic about the game.

[Creature]

Aren't we lynching Desp?

[Creature]

I'm surprised there are players that still think WK is a legit scumtell.

[Creature]

VOTE: Group C

[Creature]

If you're voting Group A, who are you planning to lynch there?

[Creature]

Okay, better we lynch in Group C then.

[Creature]

there's a watcher bro

and there are three roleblockers.

[Creature]

also, if we lynch goon in C, they still can kill Eli, if they want

It's not a big loss compared to mislynching in Group A.

[Creature]

I'm more confident in a Despscum.

[Creature]

I don't remember him sucking at laundry mafia.

[Creature]

I somehow think WhyMafia's replace out would be a bannable offense if he was scum faking it.

[Creature]

Why did he replace out?

[Creature]

I'm not backing if I'm not satisfied enough.

[Creature]

Why did he replace out?

[Creature]

Mafia can't work if every game is like "what if X is a mislynch?"