Surreptitious II: Secrets and Misdirection

[Desperado]

VOTE: group b

[Desperado]

wake me up when i can vote luv

[Desperado]

Desperado Lurks as scum and doesn't really do much
As Town he actually makes attempts to solve the game

I expect way more gamesolving from Desperado.

ask chess and elli what they "expect" from me

and even if your bullshit burden of proficiency were defensible (and the short answer to a very long story is it's not, except for when it is), 5 players account for nearly 66% of the posts thus far...there is nothing to solve yet. there hasn't been a real vote cast.

i'm here, i'm reading, i want to lynch in group B, and i want LUV to claim. if you're looking for anything more from me right now, it's gonna be a long journey on the way to nothing.

[Desperado]

I kind of got turned off with the gamestate earlier and tried tuning it out. Can you give your reasoning on why LUV is scum, and why you're insisting on a claim from the get-go?

it's an open and he softed pr after minimal pressure

really not sure how anyone could think it's a good idea to just let that go

[Desperado]

it's open season in group c right now

[Desperado]

VOTE: LUV

[Desperado]

PLAY THE GAME

1059 - tbh I'm starting to think who votes for what group is NAI.
Like
you pick a group
and you vote it.
it's that simple.

keep in mind that mikan has been hawking me from the word go because i haven't been "gamesolving"

then they say that literally everything that happened in the first 50 pages was NAI

riiiiiiiiiiiiight

[Desperado]

LUV the person who does nothing D1 as town is not scum here.
He quite frankly does not do nothing on D1 as scum and would be somewhat townread.

Your LUV wagon is trash, and so are you.

yo whatever baselines you're using are what's actually trash here

[Desperado]

yup

you got me

i only play scum and town one way and you are the true arbiter

[Desperado]

you gonna post my ISOs from protomen and sexy brutale again?

[Desperado]

Like
would you like to educate the class on why LUV is scum?
Or are you going to keep at it with the obvscumming.

i want luv to claim

the only way that's going to happen now is by voting him

so...i'm voting him

[Desperado]

if i felt like i needed to explain why he's scum, i would do that

[Desperado]

and if your defense is going to rest on "LUV doesn't do things d1 as town" then i think we're pretty much done here

[Desperado]

Because ~reasons~
What are those reasons?

he soft claimed pr in an open

[Desperado]

This is how scum!Desperado works everybody.

[Desperado]

ya pretty much!

[Desperado]

I would sheep Elli

how's the weather on Mars?

[Desperado]

because this isn't that game

i dont know you're town

i think most of your tells are garbage

and in this particular instance I was questioning why mikan would sheep you on thor when you have went even developed a read on him yet

[Desperado]

@momo you've expressed scumreads on 4 players in group B

can you give us a bit more than your reads remaining pretty similar?

[Desperado]

I think my Snarky read has been greatly expressed. For me, the Thor B C wagon switch really did it especially considering that the original wagon was on his own group. As for LUV...he was too casual when under pressure...seemed to be relying on that attitude too much. CMM is not as strong but it was the vibes.

and rauth?

[Desperado]

or did you forget that he was the 4th? you never called luv scum

[Desperado]

Considering bring group C to L-2...what do y'all think. Checker, Desperado, and Alisae are all in that group. Good feeling that 2 of them are scum...The narrowed down situation while still keep a few options seems good to be. Yet is this too hasty. Should I do it? What do y'all think?

ok remember in this setup there are exactly the same number of scum in EACH group, at least for today.

It is an open setup. Scum want to know who the town PRs are so they can get rid of them.

This means that each group has scum it in and no more than 2 of them at that.

Please when you are giving reads keeps these thoughts in mind.

I still feel B is our best bet atm.

Still with the whole LUV mess and the talk of PRs in Group B, I don't want to have the vote lead to a PR being discovered....That's why I think I should vote C instead of B (on top of my reads)

also not getting these posts considering you've got a similar set of reads in your own group

[Desperado]

with five people not voting and two people on vanity wagons? lmao

[Desperado]

I DO AS THE CHECKERSMAN7 COMMANDS

VOTE: MA..Ji..

Wait, no. Not that one. Why Checkersman7. Whyyyyy? Such a cruel overlord.

















VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert

Spoiler: contains sweets

I TOO AM BUT A SHEPHERD

I DIRECT THE ANGER OF A WRATHFUL SPIRIT

THE LAST REMNANTS OF A VENGEFUL HORDE

ELLIBERETH, HORSEPERSON OF THE APOCALYPSE

DIRECT THY FURY ONTO MAJIFFY

I'm in peaceful protest against vote tags until I solve the game.

don't think we're going to get a better series of post all game lol

[Desperado]

Lesson we learned: Never make a prodless game.

i think activity has been just fine??

[Desperado]

I agree with Transcend on Momo. How long are people gonna make excuses for CMM?

who is making excuses for CMM?

[Desperado]

This is currently the leading wagon, so let's see where it leads.
VOTE: ConManMick

It is now a race to post the most appropriate reaction GIF to the above post.

Ready
Set
GO!

[Desperado]

VOTE: group b

LUV needs to dieeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Desperado]

why? he lurks and sucks as both alignments

like he's he's on my scumlist but its certainly less of a guarantee.

i really don't understand why you feel the need to make comments like this

[Desperado]

we're never going to get anywhere if the gap between the people who are posting at normal forum mafia rates and the people who are treating this like a chat room doesn't start to go away soon...including mikan, 8 players account for over 75% of the game right now. there's no flow to the discussion, it's just the same people measuring their dicks over and over and over again

[Desperado]

we can lynch Desperado, so he don't have to read this thread

?

i've read the thread

did you just misunderstand what i said or...?

[Desperado]

Yeah that comment from so out of place and it just looks like an attempt to look annoyed in order to not contribute.

oh, you guys are ~contributing~ by producing pages and pages of meaningless, one line back and forths that go nowhere. like that one you had with thor, what an amazing contribution to which i can only hope to aspire

[Desperado]

What are your a/c reads?

creature

elli
dan

eddie

-------------- <---- line of lynchability

whymafia
assemble

bulb


checkers
rach

transcend

------------- <--- line of lynchability

ginngie

vonflare

mikan

[Desperado]

Fuck

Alisae was right

Desperado is scum.

no.

[Desperado]

how about making some efforts to find scums?

you can only lead the horse to the water

[Desperado]

oh fun

another one of my isos with no explanation of its significance or relevance

it's gonna be difficult for you to be more wrong about my meta than ali was but i'm interested to see where this goes

[Desperado]

you aren't looking hard enough then

ali posted two games that disagree with that take in this thread already (she had them backwards too somehow!)

[Desperado]

this sounds a lot like when ali was calling me obvscum because i wasn't gamesolving

think i'll run it back and just laugh at how comical that accusation is in the current game state

[Desperado]

also laughing at getting burden of proficencied by ginngie and mikan while checkers and elli belittle me every opportunity they get for how bad i am

do you guys get it yet??? your meta is trashtrashtrash

[Desperado]

you dont think of trying to fix it or putting in any work in.

i'm voting for where i want to lynch

that's what i'm willing to do

[Desperado]

There is no way you can spin "discredit anyone calling me scum and I'm not going to do anything about the shitty gamestate" as a pro-town behavior.

right, i'm supposed to somehow fix everyone's posting habits???

what the fuck are you even talking about

[Desperado]

It’s so Night and day his scum and town game lol

it's really not and i wouldn't consistently live deep into games if it were

[Desperado]

Like here he has spent half the game arguing whether people can meta read him or not,

instead of solving the game.

this continues to be the absolute fucking worst

LOOK AROUND

[Desperado]

pretty sure you didn't understand what i was saying

[Desperado]

was there something else i missed?

i guess i could have responded to you and transcend saying kitty and dog back to each other a couple times

[Desperado]

oh where eddie asked me to explain my thoughts on each player individually?

ya i'm not doing that

[Desperado]

I would at least want to know top 2 scum and town reads in your grp

i've already provided this

[Desperado]

just do the top and bottom of each group because some of those are weird iirc?

when you recall which ones specifically are "weird" you let me know

[Desperado]

bulb - strong townreads elsewhere in the group and past experience
eddie - he's straddling the line, not much to explain
you and chesskid - no idea what your scumgames look like but you both feel right. unfortunately there's no hito or kagami here to help bridge the gap between you guys and the rest of us

[Desperado]

read my iso

[Desperado]

Desp would actually be trying to parse some of this stuff if town. Especially the further in we got. But Desp is just lurking in the shadows and pops out to complain about the game every now and then.

there's nothing i can do about other people's activity, and if it keeps happening and it keeps hindering my (and, presumably, other's) ability to form reads then i'm going to keep complaining about it

seriously, look at the pages that were produced overnight and tell me how much of that back and forth between checkers and ginngie did to further the game. it was all noise.

as for you being scum, its a very specific tell that hasn't failed yet and i don't think you're aware of it. tbd and kilos never got a point where it could be applied. you're scum and that's that.

[Desperado]

There is an alarming amount of resistance to desperado ...

there's also an alarming amount of players who have misunderstood the rules of this game and then used that misunderstanding to inform their reads

traditional VCA is useless when scum aren't actually informed

@ elli, it's actually not really, pretty sure i was wrong. bulb's probably town

[Desperado]

i was misapplying the tell to this game, i thought he'd been doing something different but i read his ISO again and it's more in line with what i expect from him as town.

[Desperado]

and based on his response i think he actually is aware of it, so just find 3-5 town and scum games from him, ISO him, and ctrl+f "on to" and you'll see it

[Desperado]

Scum scum hunt this game

If they think you're their buddy, they won't lynch you.

i don't think it'd be optimal for groupscum to protect anyone they thought was scummy when the possible benefit of a mislynch far outweighs the potential loss

[Desperado]

you didn't even pull up some bulb games and check out what i said so why the fuck should i do that?

[Desperado]

like, if you had done that and came back with some thoughts on why what i said was bullshit then ya, sure

but you didn't

and if you had, you'd know see exactly what i see and wouldn't have to ask me to explain my thought process

[Desperado]

when bulb is scum, he has a mechanical tic, especially in active games, where he is perennially "catching up" and he ends many posts with "on to page_____"

as town, he either doesn't use this at all, or if he does, it's sparingly and not as rote

in my head he'd been using it a lot more in this game but he's actually only said it once and it's the kind of whimsical version that comes from town him who legitimately just got backed up. as scum i suspect he's actually keeping up with the thread at all times but uses the catch up style posting to further his agenda

[Desperado]

like if it is real i'm actually super shocked you're just giving it up I refuse to explain the vast majority of mine lol

i didn't see the part where bulba seemed aware so i'll check that tmrw too tho

he mentioned maniacal mafia already and i havent gone back and checked but i'm pretty sure i caught him using the tell but in a different way that focused on the scum motivation aspect of the posting style and not necessarily the tic, but when you look at his games it's held for quite a while.

[Desperado]

maybe, if/when it becomes necessary to do so

[Desperado]

1) i don't have something as specific as that for every player
2) i prefer a ram lynch but don't really care if it's ginngie instead

[Desperado]

Why are you ignoring me Des?

well, i'd gone to bed

but the answer to your question is also readily available

[Desperado]

loldesp you link me

i looked, couldn't find it

[Desperado]

I know this is playstyle related but I havent seen anything I can point to and say yeah this looks like town trying to figure things out. Bulbread being the onlu exception but it reads more like a show to make it appear as such (see spidy senses above)

you're the one who trashed it before you even attempted to investigate for yourself and then asked me to explain it rather than just let it speak for itself

and now it's somehow my idea designed to put on a show?

get real dude

[Desperado]

And if you want to see a real Desp "I have a tell" moment, go look at Maniacal Mafia, where he essentially says "Bulba is playing exactly like his scum game, and these pushes are scum pushes." and doesn't rely on a crappy mechanical tell. That's what Town Desp scumreading Bulba looks like. It's based on play and not "He's using a couple words when he catches up.".

maniacal was like my 2nd or 3rd game on site? pretty sure i'd never played with you before.

That's every game in my wiki where Desp and I played with each other. There may be more, but I'd have to dig through my bookmarks. Point is that he's seen me as town in catch up mode. And if you actually look at some of these games where I was scum, I believe he caught me before I reached that point, so the tell is bunk.

no, the point is that the tell was a lot more nuanced than "is bulb ever in catch up mode?"

i also never said i'd caught you with it before. i was pretty explicit about why you were scum in playing card and it dovetails pretty nicely with what i've been saying in this game so what are you even talking about?

[Desperado]

like, i already said my image of your play in my head didn't match reality when i re-read you

so the tell i was using to pattern match your tone and disposition to what i know to be true about your scum game wasn't valid anymore

and now i think you're town

[Desperado]

@ elli maplewood doesnt really change anything for me. outside of learning that chesskid will bus even when its not optimal i wouldnt say i learned anything about how either of you play scum.

[Desperado]

what am I lying about exactly?