Paint Mafia Mania! Game Over come look at the garbage fire

[Keychain]

Hi people!

I've got a busy day but I'll be back in the evening, ~12 hours from now.

[Keychain]

Okay so
UNVOTE:

because he is SO scummy

I really agree with this. He's trying to be likable, which I appreciate, but it's covering up a concerning lack of actual content. Except it's more than a simple lack, it's more that posts like 381 and 386, and more recently 898 sound like he's trying to

look

like he's doing something but... isn't.
VOTE: Havo


Alchemist is also up there, mostly for the reaction to Smocaine. Faking post restrictions is also done by townies being silly. Voting Smoc for the S_S vote in 592 was fine, I wasn't amazingly impressed by the reasons in 626 though I can see how that are reasons town might have. But the continuation of the read was awkward, and complaining that he's getting scumread over Smocaine in 722 was meh. Like it doesn't feel like he thinks Smocaine is actually scum. If the vote is an attempt to pressure content out of Smoc, it's failing quite badly. If it's truly still based on that S_S vote, that is suspect as heck and I'd like it to be backed up further.

Though 849 appears to be a legit post restriction claim. Alchemist, you never commented on that, I'd think it would be important to you and your vote considering what you said in 827. Do you think it's faked?

Alchy's really stuck to his guns over the Smocaine thing being about the votes on SS and, while I felt like it was a total chainsaw at first especially re: Creature's SS hop-on, it looks more like Alchemist legitimately developing a scumread there and sticking to it rather than just posturing for good boy points.

Smocaine's vote there was bad, but I'm also voting the dude for policy. Not gonna beat around the bush.
It's my policy that if someone's not going to actually play the game of mafia, they've eat rope.
The more people endorse literally not playing the game, the less the game gets played, and the more we get crap like the disjointed sprawl that hit pages 39/40 and had me really hovering over that Logout Forever button.


...also Smocaine's OMGUS on Alchemist feels opportunistic to me, especially given the awkward shuffle to PeregrineV once the Alchemist wagon lost steam.

VOTE: Smocaine

Not moving this vote until one of us is dead or Smocaine starts providing content.

Obviously I disagree with the points on Alchemist, doesn't really feel to me like a legit scumread developing.

Smocaine

is

providing content, albeit indirectly. Seeing how people react is valuable. Ignoring that content in favour of being mad at someone who isn't playing the way you want to play is anti-town at best if you insist on parking your vote instead of scumhunting. I will play with you, you seem like fun, so please don't waste your vote like this.

You are also awkwardly straddled between this being a vote on a scumread and a policy vote. If you could decide which one it is, that would be cool - using a scumread to get it started and policy to lock it into place is ehhhh. Also same as Alchemist, how does 849 affect your read?

I don't really want to lynch alchemist or smocain

~Ramona

You two appear to disagree on Alch unless I missed something. Why is that?


Things are pretty fragmented considering how close we are to deadline. Would anyone like to sell me on a different wagon? I'm on Havo instead of Alch because he appears to have one more vote by my count. I suppose I should look into Bins and Davsto reasonably sharpish though.

[Keychain]

Have Arcade Pals given an opinion on Smocaine? I'd be interested in that.

Keychain (YOU ARE FUCKING UP THERE, MATE)

Oi, don't capslock at me. Why are you super hard opposed to this Havo wagon?
If you want me to vote somewhere else, tell me why.

VOTE: bins
i feel gross doing this without understanding the meta behind it but A) 4 days and B) pretty much everyone i don't like is ignoring this wagon in weird ways (like these gross pisskop votes) which i guess means it needs to be bigger

Wow I really did not like this post. Did you just join a wagon when you don't understand why people are voting there and despite it making you "feel gross"? That's awful.


I have no idea where the votes are at right now tbh.

[Keychain]

I don't understand. I don't know who the people are, except you. Is that Ramona in the bin?

I am nothing but a humble painter. The art is my passion, please do not bully.

...
can you explain 849? It looks

very much

like you fakeclaimed a post restriction. Town being silly I can understand, town fakeclaiming not so much.

It’s ridiculous

This is a very empty statement.

Personally, I have a few town reads but am having trouble gaining scum reads. Large games are just not my element, so I don't think I'm super useful and invested yet. I hope it changes soon.

~Ramona

Okay, thanks.
Along the lines of townreads, you (plural) have one on my slot since very early on that you have refused to explain when asked by Something_Smart. I would like you to go into that, please, because I can't see where it came from and it worries me.

Hiya friend.
I think the odds you got a scumslot are p high

mmhmm okay but this doesn't answer the question of why you really really don't want Havo lynched when you've said repeatedly you think he's scummy. I went ctrl-F "Havo" in your ISO and can't see why you'd be vetoing his lynch with the things you've said about him.

[Keychain]

He entered the game with a picture of what looked like a role PM. Then he posted it again in response to someone asking if he had a post restriction. Seemed like a claim to me. He doesn't have one, that's obvious by now. So what do you think he was saying by answering "do you have a post restriction" with a picture of a role PM?

Or you know, better than making up our own theories about what he meant, Smocaine could just tell us and clear it up.

It’s ridiculous

This is a very empty statement

This is a very agenda driven statement.

I should probably better explain what I mean then.

@Smocaine. Are you under some kind of post restriction?

Post a picture of an elephant for Yes

Post a picture of an airplane for No.

Failure to answer means No.

You post this and Smocaine posts words.

Why do you not want me interacting with Smocaine?

That's just it... I do want people interacting with him, rather than continually asking a question we all know the answer to.

Gee. Looks like some one got him to post. ......

Then you scrape the credit for him posting those words.

I am nothing but a humble painter. The art is my passion, please do not bully.

I would like people to weigh in on this post please.


Urge to lynch rising.


~Ramona

It’s ridiculous

Then Ramona directly invites people to comment on it, and you say this. It's an ambiguous statement. What's ridiculous? Does it suggest that he's town or scum? What did you get out of getting him to post? You show exactly zero town motivation or curiosity here. It's

empty

. It feels like you're just coasting on having "got him to post", without picking it up and doing anything with it.

[Keychain]

I don't get what you mean. I thought it was clearly claiming a post restriction because he only quoted the bolded question and responded with a picture of a role PM. Now he's proven he doesn't have one. That would make it a lie. That's my problem.
Where do you disagree with me? What do you think he was trying to say in his response if not a post restriction claim?

I could see it being a claim of town-not-third-party, but in that case selectively quoting the bolded question doesn't make sense.

[Keychain]

Those are the kind of questions I tend to ask myself. I disagree that it doesn't make any sense, but okay.

I would like to hear more from Smocaine. I don't think the speculation right now is helping move towards any kind of conclusion and instead is letting him get by without explaining. There's no point in us arguing over what he meant when he could just tell us.

[Keychain]

And for someone with that theory, the questions you're not asking are:

Why?

If you're faking a post restriction, outright claiming it is a plausible way to try and get people off your back about it.

Why not do it more clearly?

I thought it was plenty clear, especially compared with his other pictures, which is why I'm still asking about it.

Why bury the theory if his intention was to lie?

I don't quite get your wording here. I'm guessing that you're asking why he would prove it wasn't a real post restriction if he had claimed it in the first place.

If he fakeclaimed it to get people off him, that failed, and a number of people have pressured him or expressed interest in doing so later. Giving up on it is another way to try and get out of that.

I don't see this as completely out of the question. I'm surprised that you do.

And I still think that Smocaine should just step in and tell us what's going on.

[Keychain]

Yeah if I'm making a weird effort to keep pressure on him, you're doing kind of the opposite in trying to get it off. I don't know what you're trying to achieve here. We are not going to reach any kind of conclusion and you're continuing to drag it out in an apparent attempt to force me to agree with you. I'm happy to stop discussing it, like I said, and wait for Smocaine to make a statement so I know how to proceed.

it really comes down to: if Smocaine's tactic was to clearly fake a post restriction there's no reason why he wouldn't, in one of his paint posts, write "I got a post restriction and have to write like this!" 849 is not that post, that post doesn't exist because he was not faking a post restriction, and I would never for a second believe that Cheet would put that post restriction in this game.

Fakeclaiming doesn't mean something exists in the game. I'm not going to try and outguess the mod. And given that Smocaine clearly has the ability to write in his paint posts and continually chooses not to, I don't know why you'd believe he'd break character for this.

[Keychain]

Okay I think I see where you're going with this? I didn't have a solid read on you. I was more interested in how people reacted, because that's easier to sort. But my only experience with someone doing something like this was Dunnstral in Chosen Mafia, where he was town.

I don't think I'll be voting you today, after your reaction to me. Being suspicious of me is what I'd expect after I went after the people voting you, I can't see scum getting super up-in-arms in response. Varsoon calling it an OMGUS is ??? because of that.


@Havo: I like playing in hydras because they're fun. I'm also pretty overwhelmed by the number of people here, I think micros are more my thing tbh.
However: did you just double soft a PR then say you'd refuse to hardclaim at L-1? That's really weird.

I don't have any hard scum reads at this time, If I had seen anything that Pinged me I would have followed up with a vote and some pressure and questions.
As of now my best guess is Davsto, but nothing I'm real confident in.

Why have you not asked questions to try and get reads? Like waiting for lightning to strike so that you can ask questions on it seems unnecessarily skittish.


PEdit: wow wtf

[Keychain]

Can you explain why?

[Keychain]

This is a good point actually. I thought Creature normally used "urgency close to deadline" as a towntell. He hasn't really been showing that.

[Keychain]

VOTE: Bins

I think I'd prefer this to a Davsto lynch.

How many ppl r in the neighborhood?

we are in a neighborhood with Davsto, Nosferatu, Satoko and Rika, and Sesq.

[Keychain]

some interesting information is now available

and pisskop's not voting doesn't look any better after both wagons flipped scum

VOTE: pisskop

Why do you think he wouldn't be voting as scum? Him not voting looks more like he wasn't bothered by either wagon, and if he was on a team with either of them I'd expect him to have been doing something, even if he wasn't that caught up.

[Keychain]

I literally threw a game cause I'm too stupid to bus before but I should have learned from that

If you're talking about the game I think you're talking about, you didn't throw it. But given that you're flipped blue and also nailed two scum on different teams I agree that scumreading you makes like zero sense for today. Not sure that makes Smart scum for doing it.


VOTE: Creature

I think Smocaine was right, I'd have expected to see Creature around a lot more towards end of Day as town.

[Keychain]

Hi Alisae!

@Smart: I'm happy that you had reasons for scumreading pisskop beyond lurking. Less happy that you're only coming out with them now after the player has replaced out. I think some of the things you've said are a reach, though. "possibly implies he didn't know the town's starting color" is a very loose interpretation of 516, for example.

downplaying the value of color flips is pro-scum

I'd like to hear more on why you think this, since Bins flipped scum with a role that could manipulate colours, and judging what people have said about previous paint games this was expected. Having a certain amount of scepticism seems like a healthy town mindset.

Apparently players listen to the players that shout the most rather than the ones with the best reads.

Are you talking about yourself?
Given how reluctant you were to join either main wagon, both of which were on scum, your reads are not exactly the best this game.

[Keychain]

Yeah, I disagree with that course of action for some reason

You continue to say I'm scum in various exciting ways but without giving your reasons, you're not exactly giving me a lot of opportunity to tell you where you're going wrong. Creature is a better option today so far. What do you mean by his lynch not providing much?

Though there's still a number of players who haven't posted since daystart that would be nice to hear from.

a few examples of a totally lurking town creature would make me change my mind but I am not really being provided that by anyone.

My only completed game with Creature he was town and had a pretty average postcount relative to other players. However Chickadee correctly read him there based on his engagement iirc.

Creature himself is probably a better source for meta examples though.

[Keychain]

keychain we would like your reads and some thoughts and stuff
you've been scumming it up, you know?

I really

don't

know tbh, you still haven't explained. But sure, that's something I can work with!

Creature, Alchemist, Havo are my strongest scumreads, that I had at the end of Day and still feel based on their actions today. PereV and random are also kind of scum for me.

Something_Smart and Varsoon are two that I've been paying more attention to but keep going back and forth on.

You and Smocaine are the only ones I like for town right now. Raskolnikov was up there but has slid since.

I'm struggling with the size of the playerlist, I feel spread too thin. I can go further in depth on any that you want, or I can look at others.

Why don't you tell us where we're going wrong
with anything

Voting me.

Seriously, that's all I can do with what you've given. Give a case, give some reasons. This town will follow you to the ends of the earth and you're leading them in the wrong direction.

[Keychain]

Okay. Why do you see Havo as town? I found his 1585 particularly bad. He sort of gently suspects Carcalilly in a way that looks like he's trying very hard to avoid confrontation. Alchemist picks that up and votes on it in 1596 and immediately gets resistance based on the fact that Carca has a possible clear, despite it being Havo who had brought up that possibility in the first place.

ok i tried to let you go keychain but i swear you just be tossing out scumlines


LMAOO

you are so hard to engage with.

[Keychain]

I'm sticking to Arcade Pals.
I think they're more likely to be scum than Davsto.
I don't like the comp on the Davsto wagon, either.
So that's that.

VOTE: Davsto

Varsoon, did you change your mind or was this purely a deadline vote?

[Keychain]

Vax what were you responding to

Satoko/Rika, cite your sources, I spent too long trying to understand 1909 and I still don't know what its purpose was

I am pretty sure Creature is town.

why did u think this at this point

This was a good question hidden in the spoiler tag, since it looks like bee's 180 on Creature was based on the meta case. What were the reasons for Creature being town?

[Keychain]

VOTE: Porkens
That's six votes, by my count.

Welcome, UCV!

[Keychain]

claiming

town yellow belly

I can target someone a night, and "Hide" behind them

If that target is killed or anti town, i die!

When i hide, i cannot be targeted....

I think I'm buying into this. I hate that I can't find any crumbs from carc,

BUT

I guess that could be because they flaked out on this game.

You... can't find any crumbs? Are we playing the same game?

I'm checking satoko tonight y'all.

Conf investigating Scott

Last word was that she investigated Scott and Ramona, looks like.

UCV, the fullclaim was probably unnecessary but it lines up with what Carca said. Rather than results, do you know who Carcalilly targeted last night?

Some important information: Dueling wagons yesterday were both on scum, but of different factions. Yellow scum Davsto was lynched at deadline, red scum Bins was killed overnight along with townie Arcade Pals. There is a neighbourhood containing Satoko and Rika, randomidget and Sesq, which can vote to reveal someone's colour within the hood. Satoko and Rika were colourflipped and confirmed blue. Today Varsoon has claimed an innocent on me from D1 and a guilty on Porkens.

[Keychain]

good new avi keychain

good new avi keychain

thank you!

[Keychain]

Vax could be a good flip. Can hiders be roleblocked?

how can someone "share" an account...i mean....you are two different personalities, and two different play styles.....

couldn't you make two separate accounts?

It's called a hydra. They choose to play in the same slot. They do have separate accounts.

: p

Hopefully...tonight I target another innocent.

I will not flat out say who it is, but will drop a hint ....and make it hard enough that it isn't easy enough to guess by the end of the night..

Um. This is not going to work. I think beeboy's plan is probably better than this though I haven't fully thought through it. Either that or don't hint

at all

, and try and get an innocent you can just tell us tomorrow.
If you are subtle, we won't be able to figure it out. You've claimed hider, scum are going to be watching for crumbs now, there's no real way you can get a message to town without scum seeing it.

[Keychain]

If you're town and someone manipulated your result then that'll show via the flip and we'll get 2 conftowns out of your flip unless scum has some wierd role that can't use the factional kill for whatever reason.

I think this is the best option so far.

Varsoon, why did you pick me and Porkens to investigate?

[Keychain]

Because his guilty flipped town?

[Keychain]

Varsoon is no longer any use as a cop, even if he is one, so keeping him alive "because cop" is flawed. Future guilties can't be trusted for obvious reasons. Innocents can't be trusted until he is flipped. Alisae provided a route where if Varsoon

is

a cop, we get two nearly confirmed innocents on his lynch (allowing for role interference).

On the other hand, if he's scum, when are you going to lynch him if not after claiming a guilty on a townie? Does claiming cop make someone unlynchable forever?

[Keychain]

@Varsoon: Okay, thank you. At what point during Day 1 did you decide to investigate my slot?

Who is left in the neighborhood, "Paint the town Red"?

Sesq and randomidget. How you remembered the name of the hood but not the only two players in it, I don't know.

That's a stupid question. Clearly he doesn't live until LYLO. But like Vax said, there's at least one scumteam who doesn't know whether or not he's a cop, so there is a chance he will die at night. (Vax is probably scum but his point is still valid...)

However, you hit the nail on the head with the bolded. We flip him when we want to conftown his innos, and the later that is the more of them there will be.

You don't believe in "there's no stupid questions"?
I've specced one game that recently ended where scum claimed hider on Day 2 and lived to LyLo and a win. For that reason, I'd rather conftown his innos asap or if he's scum make him not an issue

now

, and avoid ending up in that situation later.

I wouldn't count on the scum teams to kill him, considering that if he's a cop his guilties can be messed with so they won't be as worried about getting guiltied. Besides, if they keep him alive, they might be able to get him to LyLo. It's a waiting game that is far more risky for town.

@keychain Thoughts on Varsoon?

I know one of his innocents to be true and I thought he was town by play - his frustration seemed very much so in particular.
But the entire thing with his role is pretty... You suggested town get some input into his result, he just copped PereV without it and his explanations for the false guilty and why he's still alive feel contrived. I think there is a good chance he's scum that is trying to get away with fakeclaiming a guilty and is worth lynching now.
However, if not him, there's always Creature, who I believe is still in this game. Varsoon still can't live past tomorrow though.

I'm thinking some sort of Janitorial painter a possibility for the porkens flip.

I'm against lynching Varsoon today and will fight anyone who wants to.

Okay... what? What is a janitorial painter? Where are you going with this?

[Keychain]

I'm thinking some sort of Janitorial painter a possibility for the porkens flip.

I'm against lynching Varsoon today and will fight anyone who wants to.

Okay... what? What is a janitorial painter? Where are you going with this?

[Keychain]

VOTE: varsoon

nvm

You guys got the vote in for the colour flip?

Vax, they can vote through the night. Role PM for Satoko and Rika is in 2107.

Question - 2 scum factions means Multiball correct?

Only 1 kill last night, S & R

UCV's death was the result of hiding behind a non town person, has to be since she can't be targeted is she hides.

I would expect 2 kills, one from each faction.

Yes, two factions means multiball. Satoko and Rika was effectively the only scum kill, with UCV almost certainly dying due to hiding.

I'd have expected two kills as well. Either both factions picked the same target or one was prevented from killing in some way.

VOTE: Sesq
I'm like 70% this is the scum left in the hood

Why is a second scum expected to be in the Hood?

Did I miss something?

Since there was yellow scum in the hood, the assumption is that there's also red scum. I think this was discussed at some point after both scum flips. Though yeah like Smart said in 2273, it's not ironclad.

[Keychain]

VOTE: Creature

I'll be happy with a Creature lynch, in case Varsoon

is

a cop he can get one more result.

Doesn't mean scum probably painted me?

Hi Creature! Do you have any thoughts at all on the current gamestate?

I'm currently recovering from flu irl

Flu is awful. Look after yourself.


Also happy birthday Alchemist!

[Keychain]

this game has been disturbingly inactive guys....

Spoiler: Looking at your posts since daystart, I think you might be part of the problem.

raskol's blue

VOTE: varsoon

ss is right

VOTE: alisae

just me, and random mig et

VOTE: varsoon

nvm

VOTE: varsoon

nvm

You guys got the vote in for the colour flip?

yeah raskol is blue

this game has been disturbingly inactive guys....

Of the four posts you made before that one, two of them were saying the same thing, one was sheeping Smart, and one was abandoning sheeping Smart with no reason given.

What made you change your mind and vote Varsoon?

[Keychain]

The only thing I can see is 2299 but I didn't see that as confirming Creature as purple either.

B-sides, you're on it and I know you're town.

This is not great. Town existing on a wagon does not make that wagon somehow good.

[Keychain]

this game has been disturbingly inactive guys....

Couldn't agree more.

And it feels to me like scum is taking advantage of it with very little pressure being applied to people.

This creature push feels like it's a "nothing better to do" wagon.

Your latter two statements seem to directly contradict each other. Where do you want pressure, if not on Creature?

Creature is being uncharacteristically lurky, has failed to give even one town game he has where he also lurked or even address that argument at all, seems really out of step with the game in general and shows no interest in solving it. So I'm voting him. Alisae and beeboy both gave their reasons as well.

[Keychain]

Rask I might be willing to put lynching Varsoon off by a day if we compromise on Creature instead.

I will accept this and only this condition.

idk not a lot to do in this game...

VOTE: Creature

VOTE: Creature

I could be wrong, but looks to me like when the game stalled, they both voted for their other top lynch prospect that they had expressed before Vax's post. That's how I interpreted it.

[Keychain]

I see what you're going for. I don't think pressure on a player who has claimed to have the flu is going to be quite as useful, though yes, you're right in that the jjh slot has lurked for the entire game and needs to get stuck in sometime soon.

There's a distinction here though. I think that Creature's lurkiness makes him scum. I'm not voting him to pressure him into talking, though that would be a nice side effect. If I want voices I ask questions. I'm voting him because I want him lynched.

Why are you not interested in pressuring Creature? Can you convince me that jjh is a better option at this point?

PEdit: when it takes 10 votes to lynch, I think you need a certain amount of agreement going on to get anything done. And if you get some kind of movement going, you can see how people react to it.
+1 on town doing more work though.

[Keychain]

Why are you not interested in pressuring Creature? Can you convince me that jjh is a better option at this point?

I probably can't make a good enough case no.

But I like this list for sorting.

here have this to decide the cop target

although we don't have a viable target yet

we won't cop creature since he's pretty much already conf scum

i guess we won't cop keychain since she's inno'd

same thing with scott+ramona

options people?

(bolding mine)


...
Havo, you seem to be misapplying that list. It was for good invest targets.

[Keychain]

@Havo: Oh okay then, my bad. Fair. Do you have reads on the more active players on that list?

[Keychain]

You're voting Alisae though?

this game has been disturbingly inactive guys....

Spoiler: Looking at your posts since daystart, I think you might be part of the problem.

raskol's blue

VOTE: varsoon

ss is right

VOTE: alisae

just me, and random mig et

VOTE: varsoon

nvm

VOTE: varsoon

nvm

You guys got the vote in for the colour flip?

yeah raskol is blue

this game has been disturbingly inactive guys....

Of the four posts you made before that one, two of them were saying the same thing, one was sheeping Smart, and one was abandoning sheeping Smart with no reason given.

What made you change your mind and vote Varsoon?

read the game, scum

I did. I still don't understand. I'm not a mind reader and "nvm" doesn't give me anything.

And now on top of that, I don't understand why you'd give me a total cop out answer that means you can continue cruising without taking an actual stance. You could just... explain yourself, instead of being needlessly antagonistic. I don't see town motivation. I'm not voting outside of Creature and Varsoon today, but you're definitely on my scum list now.

Especially when you're happy to piggyback off people being frustrated with the gamestate (beeboy's 2301 and Smart's 2308 leading to your 2310), but show no motivation to actually improve it.

[Keychain]

if you read the game you would know why i did the things i did

i say what i need to say, and i dont need to say anything

how about you put effort into analyzing the game state instead of this lamist bullshit you're pulling

Getting told to put in more effort by someone who is effectively defending their right to do nothing

after complaining about inactivity

is pretty infuriating.

I'll explain what I was doing. A gamestate of town apathy is pro-scum. You complained about the gamestate instead of trying to fix it. That's not scummy in itself. Sometimes town don't know what to do to make the game move again, so I asked you a question. Your response to my question was to reject it and refuse to contribute any more. At this point I'd expect scum to be continuing to stall the game, which is what you're doing.

Insisting I reread to figure out your intentions is silly - I'm doing this to figure out my read on you. You are being deliberately vague and unclear and avoiding committing to a position. That is scum.

VOTE: Creature

I'll be happy with a Creature lynch, in case Varsoon

is

a cop he can get one more result.

He is a "daycop that investigates whether a player has access to a factional kill."

He "got" a result that a Blue Vanilla Townie player had access to a factional night kill, and based on that incorrect result we lynched the Blue Vanilla Townie player.

What kind of cop do you think he is, and what kind of result are you expecting?

? Not quite sure what you're asking here.

This is in case he is an actual cop and his first result was interfered with. It gives us one extra piece of information after his death. Sure it's not ironclad, but it's better than nothing.

[Keychain]

What? Am I being lynched for being purple?

Nah bro. That's definitely not it. Also you're only at 4 votes.

Are

you purple?

Also, I don't like being lynched when I'm offline. Most of my town lynches could've been prevented if I got the chance to speak.

...? You're not really "being lynched". You're being wagoned yeah, but again you're only at 4 votes and you've had plenty of time to speak.

I did ask you a question but I don't think you ever answered Do you mind giving your thoughts on anything? Who are your scumreads?

[Keychain]

Does Sesq have a double vote in the hood as well? I got that impression but I can't remember.

also if you again READ THE GAME(s) you would be able to pick up as to why im suddenly being more coherent

and generally caring more about game state

hate when i have thoughts after i hit submit lmao

We're not sending secret messages here. Just. Be. Clear.

I ignored your case on me because it's bad and doesn't change my read on you. You're pulling out textbook tells and buzzwords as if town never does those things, and using them wrong. Nowhere have you said why they mean that I'm scum. You're using them to avoid addressing my actual points.

@Mod: In the "Living" section of post 0, the players are listed in numerical order, except that Keychain (23) is listed between Smocaine (11) and Sesq (12). Is that intentional?

There are no mistakes in the OP that I'm aware of.

Keychain, do you know anything about this?

I do! There was actually an error and I've PMed the mod. But I'd rather not talk about it just now if that's okay?

[Keychain]

Sesq flipped key as blue.

lynching keychain tomorrow

nvm

he blue

...
Well great okay.

I think setup spec means Sesq has to be town. Still can't imagine scum controlling half of the hood vote even from the beginning.

Scum from different factions though? I'm not prepared to use setup spec as a way to confirm someone when I feel quite strongly that they're scum by play.


I'm not happy letting Varsoon live past today regardless of his result, I think.

[Keychain]

VOTE: Varsoon

[Keychain]

I'm sorry I don't understand the Vax votes, can someone explain them to me? I don't see him as scum.
I'm also not quite firing on all cylinders at the moment so my apologies for that.

I don't think I'm moving my vote from Varsoon today, dude needs to die.

[Keychain]

<3


but like

or they've been painted.

lol when did this start?

Literally today. Please read the game.
VOTE: Vaxkiller

I just ctrl-Fed "Vax" in your ISO and you didn't like him saying the Creature purple thing yesterDay, then you put him as a top scumread, but I'm still not entirely clear on it. If I missed something or I'm forgetting, please point me to it. Otherwise I'd love if you could elaborate on this read.

[Keychain]

VOTE: schadd_
I think tomorrow is the right time to lynch Varsoon. We lynch one of schadd/beeboy today, Varsoon checks the other tomorrow, and then we lynch Varsoon.

And jjh, West is town.

Yeah no I don't like this plan - "just one more day" is a slippery slope.
Also, your lynch choices - I understand schadd but why beeboy?

[Keychain]

I'm not going to be around for the next ~24 hours, sorry.

I want Keychain to fullclaim.

Uh, no. Not happening at this point.

[Keychain]

See this?
This means you guys have to sheep me for the day.

So go vote Schadd_

Hmmm... alright fine.

VOTE: Schadd

VOTE: Alchemist21

I mean, apart from this opportunistic vote and the vague way you seemed to take beeboy's "sheep me yo" thing somewhat seriously, this is full circle! Got distracted by Creature and Varsoon being scum the last two days but back to this because I don't think I've seen any reason from you to change my mind. Especially at the moment as I read through your ISO and Davsto's together. Things like 811 (Davsto switching off Alch wagon, further explanation in 820 dismisses the Alch wagon as "useless") and 1146 (Alch townreading Davsto for aforementioned switch) make me think there could be something there. And the final paragraph of 722 definitely does not look any better on reread.

My apologies for going that far back, but there wasn't much in D2 after the Porkens guilty and it's so mechanical through D3+4.

I'll work on going through other ISOs over the next couple of days.

[Keychain]

This ignores a couple things - I was also scumreading Varsoon during D1 (another red scum), and my wagon wasn't the only one that seemed to crop up for no reason.

Yeah I think you'd be yellow, so your first point is null, and I don't understand what you mean by the second point so a bit of explanation on why that should make me not think you're scum would be great.

I was also scumreading Varsoon during D1 (another red scum),

Any other reason to town read you? I mean busing is almost mandatory for scum nowadays.

The 2 top wagons were on both scum factions D1. If I were teammates with either of them I would have chosen the other wagon to save them. I was off both wagons because I didn't really like them.

If we're making the assumption that yellow scum would have absolutely been on the Bins wagon, all of them, this game gets much much easier.

VoteCount 1.16

Bins [6]

- Arcade Pals, Davsto, randomidget, Raskolnikov, Something_Smart, Keychain

beeboy [2]

- Scott and Ramona, PeregrineV

Davsto [13] - Bins, Havo, Satoko and Rika, West9, Smocaine, beeboy, Porkens, Vaxkiller, Sesq, schadd_, Varsoon, Creature

Havo [1]

- Carcalilly

West9 [1]

- Alchemist21

Varsoon [1]

- jjh927

Not Voting [1] -

pisskop

Here comes the night time!

Looking at the Bins wagon at day end, I don't think that's the case. Only ones there who haven't died or been flipped blue are random and S_S.

Literally anyone else in the game can use the excuse that they're not yellow scum because they weren't on the Bins wagon.

[Keychain]

Huh, why yellow over red? You think two yellow scum in the hood?

and I don't understand what you mean by the second point so a bit of explanation on why that should make me not think you're scum would be great.

It was in reference to the last paragraph of 722

Okay, I see. Well no, I still don't understand why it makes you not scum, but I see what you're getting at.

And yeah I'm a little pissed right now because I'm getting wagoned because "hurr durr Alch is scum" over the guy who is purposefully making himself harder to understand.

This looks like scum frustration at being scumread over "easier" targets. Other wagons existing is kind of unrelated, and feels like a non sequitur.

Or see who was hardcore on Bins ass calling him scum or who had a hard townread on Bins day1 to catch the yellow that killed him.

I like your train of thought here. If you don't like how people are just saying who they want lynched without justifying it, then, uh... I guess be the change you want to see?

[Keychain]

Schadd was just misinterpreting the drawing I think.

It helps when you realise the stick figure with the gun is me

I don't think so. I don't know how he would have assumed that was random, especially after you responded. I'm guessing that's where the misinterpretation that you're talking about would have been.

Even if he was responding to the drawing, I assumed that random being defo scum and proobably yellow was a position that schadd holds? Or do you mean he was just restating the picture?

[Keychain]

Oh nearly forgot to say - nice avi random

[Keychain]

I went through schadd's ISO, short as it is. At this point I don't think he's scum and is just disengaged town.

He was camped on Davsto for a good while, but he didn't really... do anything with that. Like if it was bussing I'd have expected more than essentially just being a warm body on the wagon. So in particular I don't think he's yellow.

2297 is a good point, especially post Varsoon flip.

[Keychain]

schadds davsto vote was weird and noncommital ("provocation vote") and he hopped off to vote peregrine with me until it was obvious dav was the lynch (10 votes)

the play around varsoon doesn't really make sense from town, essentially hoping varsoon would be lynched with him not personally involved. IMO implies scum him thinking varsoon mightve been a mislynch despite lying which would kinda make sense from a yellowy perspective (scum see player as lying town vs just scum)

possible sesq died entirely for being in hood but her last post was a schadd vote and as doublevoter if she was around today that'd probably be two votes on him

wait whoops rasko already said all of this better

Oh, so he did.

Regarding the Davsto vote: That's not the impression I got, mostly due to the time he decided to unvote to follow onto PereV. Also I don't see the fact that the vote was "weird and noncommittal" as being indicative of partners.
schadd put Davsto to 4 votes with his "provocation vote". By the time he unvoted, Dav was at 8 votes I think and schadd had been on the wagon for the longest (after Bins, assuming players are in order of voting on the VC).

He was on it until quite late in the day, to the point that it kind of took off because deadline. I don't think a partner would have left it so long to unvote if they didn't actually want Davsto lynched.

The Sesq point is pretty flimsy. I don't think I understand the Varsoon one - why would scum avoid being personally involved with the Varsoon lynch if they thought he was possibly town? I don't see the motivation there.

[Keychain]

I think beeboy also claimed to receive the botched fresco iirc, after Scott and Ramona.

Can people please remind me of their Alch reads with explanation included?

Is it bad I keep forgetting Keychain is in the game?

</3
No, that's probably fair, and I apologise. I've been only really posting in the evenings.

I want to see them logic through why the person is scum, what color, why they are that color, or why a person isn't. If that makes sense.

Yes, that makes sense, but what I was saying is that I don't understand why you aren't doing it yourself.
For example, you suggested in 3041 that beeboy and Vax are scummy - what colour do you think they each are?

[Keychain]

Wow. That's pretty excellent.

I'd prefer to hear from schadd before any hammer.

Regarding the Davsto vote: That's not the impression I got, mostly due to the time he decided to unvote to follow onto PereV. Also I don't see the fact that the vote was "weird and noncommittal" as being indicative of partners.
schadd put Davsto to 4 votes with his "provocation vote". By the time he unvoted, Dav was at 8 votes I think and schadd had been on the wagon for the longest (after Bins, assuming players are in order of voting on the VC).

He was on it until quite late in the day, to the point that it kind of took off because deadline. I don't think a partner would have left it so long to unvote if they didn't actually want Davsto lynched.

ima pull up some schadd d1 stuff

Spoiler:

VOTE: davsto
provocation vote

Gonna get off Alchemist wagon because my main reason for the vote made has been answered and it makes a lot of sense

[insert ISO-bomb on West that West edited out of this post because it fucked with the spoiler tags]

I had slight town vibes from him earlier bbbut this is a really quick and unconvincing change from fairly strongly scumreading alchemist to the point he moved off and then back on his wagon again, to defending him a fair amount

VOTE: west9

why is scum more likely to do that than town

I am also against a nos lynch day 1

why dat and what prompted it

would like 2 lynch in
{dav, rando, vaxk}
{eddief, sesq, arcade}
the top one is a bit more than the bottom one

carc wants to be in one of those lists but >:(

ight VOTE: peregrin ev

VOTE: davsto

Yeah you're right that this isn't intense bussing but it still reads to me more like lazy distancing, because it's definitely not provocation or scumhunting.

And looking back on the timing of D1 - which up until the end was a fuckfest of half-baked wagons with nothing really taking the lead - Schadd voted off of Dav and onto Pere right in the middle of the votes consolidating around Dav.

Here hold on im gonna do a big quotewall with all the votes from the beginning of the late-day dav push

This is fair, but he did still sit on the wagon for a long time and for the purposes of convincing me to scumread him, it doesn't do a lot. I would rather look elsewhere today.

keychain there's like no chance alchemist is happening today at this point so idk what you hope to achieve
Even if you're right there still prob minimum 3 scum in the gane atm though so it'd make more sense to sort the worst of the rest and esp if you townread schadd to prob look at like jjh pere

In a pretty apathetic game where a schadd lynch appears to be happening near unopposed, you don't see why I might be interested in drumming up some discussion regarding my scumread to see what people are thinking?

jjh is at 2 votes, PereV is at 1, they're not exactly miles ahead of Alch, and there's more than five days remaining.

Though yes, I should look into both of them more closely regardless. S_S may have something going on, and I didn't like that vote from PereV.

feel like alch - davsto interactions were pretty substantial for d1 and the progression from davsto pushing on alch, to them talking about it, to them like moving on/ focusing on other things was pretty organic for an S/S interaction.

It's possible but with this there's like a to-fake threshold and it doesn't seem likely, whereas with schadd interaction I don't really see any reason to think why it wouldn't be from scum or S/S and individually alch reads better than schadd here to me.

Good point on the interaction. What about Alchemist in particular reads well?

[Keychain]

Hey so I'm completely confused so I might need to find a computer shortly to track the claims and night actions and colours and things but before I do that:

@mod are these flavor?

Spoiler:

The following also shows up with the start of the day:

@mod are these

Claiming these! The result of my night action is public via these paintings, except for N3 when my target died. For summary:
N1: Smocaine
N2: Raskolnikov
N3: Havo
N4: beeboy
N5: Alchemist
My name moves in the playerlist in the OP to be underneath my target. S_S worked it out. See 2414 and the end of 2495.
Should I fullclaim?


I don't think Vax's purple people eater role can be scum, and the fact that he didn't eat West who schadd claimed to be purple is pretty telling.
I also think West is almost certainly town, I don't think schadd was lying about Bins's target and since he flipped purple and not orange that strongly suggests West was blue and is now purple.


And PereV:

I never targetted schadd- There must be a Blue-painting roleblocker out there.

bins mixed me with west

[Keychain]

Summary of claims:
Alchemist: red-cop, results in 3212
beeboy: VT
jjh: VT
PereV: roleblocker + red mixer, claim and results in 3226
Vax: vig for purples, kill claimed in 3200
West: colour parity cop, results in 3156
I've claimed targets in 3230 but not role.

Rask, Smocaine, S_S have not claimed afaik.

Vax, who did you target each night? Also 2299 makes a hell of a lot of sense in hindsight with this claim, though surety in 2533 is odd. Still pretty sure on you being town.

PV, do you have flavour? I'm kind of puzzled that you wouldn't be clear on your role changing the colour of your targets from your role PM. Why did you choose the targets you did?

Kind of worried about you being some kind of scum painter.

Can I asked why you targeted me keyfam?

I'd rather hear you claim first tbh. I do think you're town though.

so killing someone is strictly +EV cause it saves us a potential derp lynch even if you do something bad like kill obv town me.

... I read this again and I still can't process it, sorry.


Right now I think I'd like to lynch one of Alch, bee, jjh. PV and S_S as outliers.

VOTE: Alchemist21

[Keychain]

No actually
VOTE: beeboy
Think I prefer this.

[Keychain]

Ok so why Vax should kill someone


10 -> 8 -> 6 game over
10 -> (vaxkill) 9 -> 7 -> 5

As my graph clearly shows this does not make us lose faster.

Yes but not losing faster doesn't necessarily mean it's a better option.

PV, do you have flavour? I'm kind of puzzled that you wouldn't be clear on your role changing the colour of your targets from your role PM. Why did you choose the targets you did?

Yeah, exactly as stated. I block someone by mixing red into their color. Didn't really know what they meant until Random's death and Vax's claim.

I picked Vax because something was off to me. Then creature because I agreed with Alisae and all the other comments of creature-meta.

Then Vax because he softed he could do something, be left it vague. If he was pulling a Varsoon, I wanted him blocked.

Night4 I wanted to prove or disprove Random as final red scum. If I blocked him, there would be only one kill. There were 2, so he was not the final red.

Last night I went with jjh because of the suspicion on him. There ended up being no kill. So unless anyone has another reason, I conclude I blocked him from performing the kill.

(bolding mine)

?
Vax was softing some kind of role that could "take care" of Creature, very possibly a town PR, so you blocked him using the excuse of Varsoon, who was still alive at that point iirc. Am I misunderstanding something? That seems off.


I'll go ahead and finish my claim. I'm paint varnish, whatever colour my target is at the end of the night can't be modified. If we're believing schadd that means that Smocaine is pretty clear for me - even if yellow scum can remove their yellow by some means, Smocaine only had the opportunity on N1.

[Keychain]

Someone mentioned having a plausible innno on smocain and I cant find it anymore.

Keychain varnished me n1, so my color couldn't have changed all game. I was flipped not yellow/scum by

Schadd

. Key can you confirm if your action resolves before painting?

I'm paint varnish, whatever colour my target is

at the end of the night

can't be modified.

No, resolves after painting.
Otherwise I'd have been hard pushing for the hood to reveal their targets, if I could guarantee no colour change that night.
You had the opportunity to be painted N1. I just don't think it's likely. Also if you're not accepting schadd's results you're not clear at all, because that means we have no idea what colour you were as of the end of N1.

@key @rask Need ur opinions on this.

If schadd is telling the truth it HAS TO BE

alch/beeboy

, if hes lying then its:

RED
Paint Mixer
1 shot 4 person RB
Yellow cop
Goon

Yellow
"goon" (In colour flipping neighborhood)

Hard town:
Keychain T varnish
Vaxkiller T eats purples
Raskolnikov T

?

West9 Prob town color parity check
Something_Smart Prob town VT


Smocaine VT Prob town less than west9 and SS


jjh927 VT
PeregrineV roleblocker that paints people red
Alchemist21 red cop
beeboy VT

I disagree that schadd telling the truth guarantees that bee and Alch are the only two yellow scum - there's a possibility that his results aren't perfectly reliable.

[Keychain]

VOTE: Alchemist21

We should probably sort out Alch/jjh/PV today.

Before massclaim, Alchemist was my top pick for scum of the three, and that's still pretty much the case.

Now that claims are out I'd prefer to lynch him because a) he's most likely to be scum and b) I think his flip either way sheds the most light on the other two.

[Keychain]

Alch is flipping scum along with jjh IMO. ALSO, if Pere AND/OR alch are town they will be sorted out tonight anyway.

If you think they're both flipping scum, the order is irrelevant except for the scenario in which you might be wrong. That's kind of where I'm at too.

We should flip Alch first though, instead of lynching his inno while he's still alive.

[Keychain]

S_S, you appear to be voting no lynch. I recommend voting Alchemist instead.

[Keychain]

S_S, you appear to be voting no lynch. I recommend voting Alchemist instead.

Why? If Alchemist is town we can pretty much force scum to kill him by leashing him and PV to the same target.

Because I find the idea of Alchemist being town to be unlikely, first off.

But if he is town, why would scum be forced to kill him? We're pretty restricted on potential targets, because we can't pick anyone I've previously targeted.

I can't see us being in a much better situation tomorrow with a no lynch. At least lynching Alchemist gives us a pretty good chance of hitting scum, and doesn't leave us too badly off on the chance that he's actually town.

[Keychain]

Yeah I'm pretty done with this day. Why aren't you voting Alchemist anymore, Rask?

S_S, I think Rask is right in 3585 and there's not going to be a no lynch with the buy in that would make it at all viable. If you're opposed to lynching jjh before Alchemist, both of whom are kind of the main options atm, then let's just lynch Alch now. It feels like most people agree that Alchemist is part of the scum team. I'm not quite sure why he hasn't gotten lynched yet.

[Keychain]

Be back tomorrow, im sick

hope you feel better soon

I'm due a prod but I really don't know what more I can do with this day. Does anyone want anything from me?

[Keychain]

I do think it's pretty unlikely that Davsto was the only yellow scum on the Bins wagon end of D1. So leaning towards S_S scum.

[Keychain]

I really don't think it's likely that Vax is scum, to the point that even if he is I'd rather go for his teammate first because I don't think lynching Vax is a sure enough bet right now.

See Rask your problem is that you're not assuming that Davsto was bussed and going from there.
Scum lynch D1 + no other members of that team being lynched for a while = bussing.

I don't think I really accept your premise - you'd have to explain that one a bit further for me. To some extent it seems like you're reverse engineering reasons for the only players who can really be scum from your perspective to be scum.

[Keychain]

If I'm scum, I was almost certainly repainted to be blue.

I wouldn't consider you confirmed blue based off a comparison to me N4, considering that I could have been painted and I don't think we have any confirmation of the colour I currently am.

I don't know why scum would paint me after I got hood flipped, but it's still a possibility here.

I really don't think it's likely that Vax is scum, to the point that even if he is I'd rather go for his teammate first because I don't think lynching Vax is a sure enough bet right now.

See Rask your problem is that you're not assuming that Davsto was bussed and going from there.
Scum lynch D1 + no other members of that team being lynched for a while = bussing.

I don't think I really accept your premise - you'd have to explain that one a bit further for me. To some extent it seems like you're reverse engineering reasons for the only players who can really be scum from your perspective to be scum.

It's not a foregone conclusion, to be sure. But I think you can at least accept these premises: (1) people like to bus, probably more than they should. and (2) the conditions that I described (scum lynch day 1 followed by no partners being lynched for a while) are conditions that result from bussing more often than not.

I haven't noticed people liking to bus, but I'll assume that's from lack of experience.

Secondly, looking at the lynches after the yellow scum lynch, I don't understand why the lack of yellow flips would have resulted from bussing. The entirety of the red scum team after Bins's death was lynched in sequence after Porkens was fake guiltied, then Alchemist. Three of those lynches were of players who were in fact on the Davsto lynch, so it's not like we haven't been lynching there.

But given 3/7 of the remaining living players were on the Davsto lynch, I assume you are right and there was bussing of some kind. I don't know that it precludes having yellow scum on the counterwagon, though, which would be you.

[Keychain]

Okay lynching beeboy here. Keychain?

I'm on board.

Like I think Vax is right in 3823, in that we shouldn't be trying to hunt scum with a false clear on them down today. Instead lynch bee first and let scum narrow it down for us for tomorrow.

[Keychain]

He does, and the West purple flip suggests schadd was at least somewhat trustworthy.

VOTE: beeboy

[Keychain]

Cheet thank you so much for running the game and for drawing those amazing pictures! <3 I think the Smocaine one was my favourite. I agree with anxiety inducing though.

gg town and red team.

@Smoc:

VOTE: KeychainVOTE: Keychain

?

this is legit still bugging me, what does the happy cup mean?? Did you ever say?

[Keychain]

I was easel, my targets were public. Redirector, actions targeting me hit my target instead.
Rask was paintbrush, could turn someone a different colour for one night only.
jjh was goon.

[Keychain]

If red hadn't gone down, they would have been killing us, but yeah if Dav had been alive we would have known the hood flips. As it was we had to guess.

beeboy eventually worked out there was a redirecting role in play but no one listened.

Cheet thank you so much for running the game and for drawing those amazing pictures! <3 I think the Smocaine one was my favourite. I agree with anxiety inducing though.

gg town and red team.

@Smoc:

VOTE: KeychainVOTE: Keychain

?

this is legit still bugging me, what does the happy cup mean?? Did you ever say?

keychain ur age on the site is showing

Hi Katya! Do you understand the happy cup?

[Keychain]

Hi Katya! Do you understand the happy cup?

Sorry I thought i explained it implicitly

the game i linked in the below post is where the reference is from - wake's massive role madness was a huge 42 player game and the first day ended in a very swift, almost unanimous lynch of a probable alt hot chocolate

thats her avatar

Oh I see she posts bottom of the first page - I didn't see it at a glance and I'm lazy thanks.
What a fascinating ISO.

[Keychain]

<3

[Keychain]

we should have lynched keychain with fire, god dammit
i'm positive i know how to read her now

Or evisceration. That was my favourite.

now we just have to roll town together and we'll see