Borderlands Mafia [GAME OVER]

[Nero Cain]

As much as I'd like get rid of the monstrosity that is one of the many Varsoon joke alts...

vote:SirCakez

[Nero Cain]

How is that indicative of scum TSO?

^ probably town

How so?

The "third vote on a wagon is scum" is a tell that I've used to varying success. Its mostly crap though.

He was more confident last time I played with him by a lot.

can confirm

This is beautiful, can we policy lynch Titus if she stops making posts in the form of memes?

I'd lynch you before Titus and I'm an avid fan of distraction lynches.

How many scum are there in a game of this size usually?

look in your pm

[Nero Cain]

Titus if you have a post restriction to post in pictures post a cat meme as your next post.

This is pretty fucking stupid.

{T S O, Titus, Cakez} is a town bloc that I'm really comfortable with.

Doesn't Titus think Cakez is scum buddies with DW?

[Nero Cain]

It was stupid but it worked so w/e.

but it was already pretty clear she was a pr/faking a pr so...what was the damn point?

[Nero Cain]

Titus you're town but

your reads are bad

please fix them

VOTE: Dwlee

[Nero Cain]

Are you really town reading Dwlee Nero?

holy shit putting words in my mouth. This dies at some point regardless of DW's flip.

[Nero Cain]

Then what were you saying? It was the obvious implication.

no it wasn't. Me not hammering DW 'cause there's like no point to end the game day so early. Why are you so eager for it to end?

[Nero Cain]

So my semi-legit RVS vote on Cakes was 'cause I felt he was being a little playful/fluffy early game and I think that's somewhat likely to come from scum. No one else saw this?

[Nero Cain]

I just found it super funny you are calling Titus' reads bad but still voting

WITH

her.

[Nero Cain]

I just found it super funny you are calling Titus' reads bad but still voting

WITH

her.

401 looks like she's scumreading me (mafia picture) and townreading Dwlee (normal happy guy picture). Which are two bad reads. Not sure why she's still voting Dwlee if that was a townread on Dwlee.

prob 'cause she was the one that started the DW wagon long before that reaction test lie thing and she still thinks he's scum. Titus thinks you are scum WITH DW. How much attention are putting into this game?

[Nero Cain]

I have a similar thought process as always but if he slipped he could easily be getting bussed here.

[Nero Cain]

slip/lie what-have-u-not

[Nero Cain]

how do you know she site flaked?

[Nero Cain]

how do you know she site flaked?

She hasn't posted in two weeks and I remember multiple mods asking for a replacement for her at once a while back.

aight

[Nero Cain]

Yeah, we've discussed enough. About time for a hammer?

VOTE: Dwlee

So, what was your actual role, Dwlee?

the amount of FAKE hammers is annoying as shit. Can't wait to use my REAL action.

[Nero Cain]

Did this really jump 20 pages? jesus fuck

[Nero Cain]

DW can you give me a reads list with short reasoning.

[Nero Cain]

really?

[Nero Cain]

Actually Peregrine just lurks most of the time. I wouldn't call him super active here either.

:/

Let's be honest he is prob town.

ok why?

I'm a little worried here about Beeboy calling DW town after sitting his vote on DW for so long. Its possible that someone may have hammered so these words and actions don't really line up.

VOTE: SirCakez

If cakez flips scum Titus is going to beat her chest and lie that she found him first.

His derail is ignoring all new information.

What new information is there?

Your basing this town read on a set of memes?

:/

HOW THE HELL HAVE WE COME TO THE CONCLUSION WE ARE IN A MULTI BALL I AM SO CONFUSED.

hello fake post

i'll finish when I get home.

[Nero Cain]

the nero post above me is of poor quality.

how so?

[Nero Cain]

I lurk? What kind of bullshit mata is this?

[Nero Cain]

if they don't that means they don't give a fuck, which would be a normal town response.

this is bullshit btw, town are far more likely to respond then scum.

end random theory bullshit you should ignore.

this one?

I think we should do just that and ignore it.

[Nero Cain]

^
prob scum looking for something to push after DW flips.

[Nero Cain]

this is very damned if I do damned if I don't.

[Nero Cain]

^
prob scum looking for something to push after DW flips.

What do you think I'mma flip?

I kinda think you'll flip town b/c yeah that whole fast bandwagon+beeboy WKing you makes me think town but at the same time I'm also agreeing that you haven't been as confident as I've seen you before and

Yea so when I die you guys can follow my crappy reads and then you lynch the people I think are scummy and then they're all town or something. >.<

is fucking headdesk and something I could see from scum that might not want to put pressure on their scumbuddies by giving a reads list.

but if you are scum I doubt its with beeboy.

[Nero Cain]

It's just a post that says nothing. It contributes nothing

The only part that's fluff is the part talking about how Titus will beat her chest if/when Cakez flips. The rest are my thoughts and things I intend to expound on (though it should be somewhat obvious what my feelings are atm.) when I'm fully done with my catch up. I'm kind of interested in seeing where you have used this previously and your degree of success. Regardless of DW's flip you need to find something to push and I think that's exactly what you are doing.

[Nero Cain]

vote:dwlee

[Nero Cain]

lol. no mod would count an unbolded vote, you should know better than that

[Nero Cain]

ok...lets just say that this gets counted as a vote (wich isn't going to happen 'cause it isn't bolded) and it was a hammer. Why would you unvote after the hammer...what does that accomplish?

[Nero Cain]

ok...lets just say that this gets counted as a vote (wich isn't going to happen 'cause it isn't bolded) and it was a hammer. Why would you unvote after the hammer...what does that accomplish?

I thought it was L-2, not the hammer. Then I counted votes and realized I hadn't counted Titus'

so? You only unvoted in case my vote counted.

[Nero Cain]

The DW-Beeboy back and forth at the start of p. 36 makes me want to kill those two even faster.

Why do you think that Rob should be factoring how his townblock is structured by how the people of the block are reading one another?

hrmmm....

I mainly just found it interesting that he was town reading two players, one of which was scumreading the other. If he's scum he could certainly use a "townblock" to buddy other players.

Now if you can be confident in someone else's reads, I don't see why you can't be confident in your own. This is just semantics at this point but you shouldn't be bahhhing basically.

town sheep all the town bro. I don't really like how you are pushing DW to not sheep.

And if so why try it on SirCakes who's been fairly town despite a few things here and there.

Whats town from him?

Saying "no one else saw this?" reads to me like it could perhaps be a desperate attempt to deflect suspicion elsewhere; put him down as a potential scum partner of DWLee, since he was the one getting heavily trodden on with votes at the time.

Lets just ignore that this is a

HUGE

reach. My RVS/semi-legit vote on Cakez happened LONG before there was any DW wagon.

What the hell is multiball? I still don't get the concept.

I've only ever played one multiball game, for which I was scum. This would be my first as town if it is a multiball game.

[Nero Cain]

So....your plan is to further add to an already bloated thread so we can get "info" on 1 slot. How pro-town of you.

[Nero Cain]

vote:dwlee

[Nero Cain]

Nero Cain
Titus
Varsoon
PeregrineV
Flubbernugget

Both PV and Flubber are posting so it sorta make me lean town here. Titus and Varsoon are either scum together faking or's or town. I had thought about 1 pr as scum and the other is town but I'm not really interested in that.

Elyse seems p town to me but I'm a little worried how quick she agreed with cooldog.

SirCakez
pisskop
Rob13
beeboy
Almost50
Dwlee99

Gut says Rob is scum. I think Almost is prob scum for speculating DW is 3p. Already talked about Beeboy a little. A lurky piss=scum piss. DW might as well be scum.

Everyone else is p null to me but thats where I'm at so far.

[Nero Cain]

Part of me is like mimi's claim is so bizarre that it couldn't be fake but the other part says "Would that really be here?" and I think not so consider my vote on Mimi is spirit. Still don't trust Rob though.

[Nero Cain]

you've been in a theme before Piss

[Nero Cain]

vote:Rob

My vote will sit here until I get to post some thoughts then we hang mimi.

[Nero Cain]

So I have alot of reading to do.

[Nero Cain]

can we not hammer yet? I'll be done catching up by tonight.

[Nero Cain]

motherfuckers killed my only townreads like motherfucking why

this reads forced as fuck.

Don't think Nero is scum but Suzune apparently has a meta tell on Nero so she can push that.

yes, her meta tell tells you that you are playing with Nero. *slow clap*

That willful ignorance from Venmar and 50 that this game might not be multiball when it pretty clearly is looks like scum not trying to "slip". I mean there's a bit of a possibility that this is just one huge scum team and like a sk but at thist point myself and any town

WOULD

think its two scum teams.

p.s. piss is doing it too...and now beeboy and YT. WTF is wrong with you people?

So I just remembered to actually check my PMs and read what my night action result was.

:/

The timing of this is pretty odd too since heat was just starting to ramp up on assuredly scum Almost.

Vote: Mimi

because I completely trust robs claim and as I've alluded to before, a silent scum player who missed D1 - in this case Starbucks if she was - is dangerous.

this vote seems really fucking weird for some reason.

This is pretty shitty and I'd be willing to see YT hang.

Anyone else?

I think Rob hoped off to get a prod on the Starbuck slot.

I'm scumreading the obvious cohort of Almost50, pisskop and pops to an extent,

but at least one of them isn't scum

, possibly more,

explain this please.

We need to find more than one caught scum

this is dumb, its a stupid idea to keep the game going just to find more people we want dead when HEY! we are already there.

On who? Mimi's a hard scum read if you haven't guessed.

Wait...so you fake claimed a guilty? Why the fuck would you do that?

explain WTF scum-Rob would have to gain by fake claiming the result.

Sure. Rob was being scum read by a few people.

A.) Rob, knowing he'll get eventually lynched anyways, fakeclaims a guilty on a powerful town role to help his team.
B.) Rob, is on the other team and gets you lynched for town cred.
C.) This is a high risk scum gambit between buddies.

Its also odd as fuck that you are townreading him.

only 50 pages to go!

[Nero Cain]

Am I getting too close to figuring out your team YT?

[Nero Cain]

Nicole what did the mod tell you last night?

[Nero Cain]

ignore that

[Nero Cain]

Part of me just wants to lynch the fuck out of Wegurts b/c why the fuck would he use his Gladiate? But at the same time I kinda expect town to have killing roles this game and his wagon is pretty fucking nasty-it has a claimed guilty on it and a guy claiming to be his scumbuddy.

But this Piss wagon has scum as fuck Almost on it and getting rid of a useless mighaswellbescum Piss is always a good thing. Gun to my head, I'd pick Piss over Wegurts but I wan't to read the other 30 pages before I decide.

[Nero Cain]

oh my guess is that mimi is a LLD alt.

[Nero Cain]

vote:piss

[Nero Cain]

vote:piss

Nero, engage with me a bit. Why do you want to lynch a claimed Doctor over the person who deliberately governed a mod confirmed guilty with his gladiate?

Is he claimed? I saw a doctor claim but I thought it was pretty lulzy and this did not take it seriously but mainly I dislike him so...

[Nero Cain]

That willful ignorance from Venmar and 50 that this game might not be multiball when it pretty clearly is looks like scum not trying to "slip".

Anybody who asserts this is an obvious multi-ball with such confidence must be suspected by me. There are more ways to explain 3 night kills than you could count, Sir. I'll give you one -if you don't mind- that I'm willing to bet never crossed your mind: Do you know what a "Focused Bodyguard" is? What exactly is focused? People have been more or less inclined to believe it means they're focused on protecting a single person, which I agree could be true, but how about focused = too alert? This being a tailored role, it could mean they kill "anything that moves" in the neighbourhood. In other words, target someone, and if that someone performs a night action the bodyguard will shoot them.

Yes, I know it's kind of silly, but until someone can explain the term "focused" to an acceptable degree of certainty I'm keeping all my options open, and that -of course- includes the most simple interpretations of scum + SK + town Vig or scum + SK + PGO or scum (factional) + scum (specific kill) + SK/Vig (

the latter bc the Titus+Varsoon kills seem a bit too coordinated than to actually come from 2 separate sides

).

Suffice it to say that "any town would assume this to MB" is a lazy and poor conclusion at best, and earns you, Sir, 2 points on the negative side.

N.B. In my text file I have your #1397 marked down for future reference. You're welcome to check it yourself to see how poor it looks in light of recent developments. You always look like coming into the game with the intention of faking doing something in order to look town, when -in fact- you have a preconceived idea of whom exactly you'd be pursuing for the entire game regardless of how the game goes. But keep on doing what you're doing, buddy. At least you're keeping me amused while I'm waiting for a flip to decide on a few read updates.

Atleast you had the balls to push back this time. I mean 20+ player game, named flipped faction, multiple nightkills so occams says this is MB. There have also been posts that give me the "hunting the other team" vibe.

Can you explain the bolded?

[Nero Cain]

So what, wegurts use of gladiator with a claimed guilty was just WIFOM? *shrugz* not impossible I guess but I generally think that he'd not want to draw that much attention to himself as scum. A scum Gladiate is not impossible. Also Rob's argument that a 2 shot gladiator couldn't exist and that we should lynch wegurts so he can't use his second shot is really really lame.

[Nero Cain]

I also immensely hate that confirmed scum Mimi is defending Piss and YT is claiming scumbuddies with wegurts. YT has no reason to WIFOM like that as town. He gets rope or bullets.

[Nero Cain]

Pisskop generally plays in a useless anti-town way for the whole game

FIFY!

Though what you actually said is pretty correct and yes I've been in a game with a doctor that could only target one group of players; female ones. Don't ask me wich game b/c I won't dig through my games to find out. I don't think Piss' claim (or wegurts for that matter) confirms them as town or anything.

[Nero Cain]

the only good thing that came out of today is that piss claimed so he'll likely eat bullets tonight.

[Nero Cain]

(11) wgeurts -- pisskop, Venmar, beeboy, grapes, Suzune, Rob13, Nicole Mimi Tithel, Elyse, SirCakez, popsofctown, RadiantCowbells

Any bets on the # of scum here? I'm betting atleast 6+

[Nero Cain]

there's like no reason to end the day yet. I'm betting that most of the votes on Mimi are scum wanting town cred for being on Mmi early.

[Nero Cain]

I could see this being Beeboy, Almost or Pops (no offense).

Why are you apologizing for thinking someone is scum?

[Nero Cain]

Also Nero answer my question. Where do you stand, or what is your opinion, on the game so far?

All you have to do is look @ my ISO.

[Nero Cain]

I was in the middle of a raid. Suze could have stopped being lazy and read my ISO to see my stance on the gamestate.

[Nero Cain]

Technically I'm assuming I was role blocked I suppose. No result could also be caused by ascetic or something.

Who'd you target?

(11) wgeurts -- pisskop, Venmar, beeboy, grapes, Suzune, Rob13, Nicole Mimi Tithel, Elyse, SirCakez, popsofctown, RadiantCowbells

Any bets on the # of scum here? I'm betting atleast 6+

Seems too high. If we are looking at multiball and a sk. So how where do you stand right now in the game nero?

I disagree. this was a 24 player game. I'd expect no less than 8 scum. Even with 8 scum that makes it a 8-16 setup which seems extremely reasonable. A sk would make a ton of sense making it 9-15. Add in the fact that there was a TON of scum motivation to lynch a 2 shot Gladitor. So I'd reckon there are 7 or 8 scum in this game. At the same time, I guess you could argue that scum avoided the scummy lynch and let stupid town lynch wegurts which is a possibility. There are likely scum on both sides though.

think since the game has developed a new and updated list would be appreciated.

My reads have been rather good so far so we do I need to update me reads list?

[Nero Cain]

max please confirm your role/action. And why you have a town read on cakes.

[Nero Cain]

meh he's prob scum anyways for calling DW a 3rd party on d1.

[Nero Cain]

I'm lurking. LAWL.

[Nero Cain]

Now that's interesting. You're betting 6+ scum on wgeurts' wagon, yet you think there's likely scum on the PK wagon too.

I like how you are sorta misrepping and cherry picking here. In my original statement I did say 6+ and that's mostly b/c I think there was MORE scum motivation to lynch wegurts then Piss. Scum 101: they know what they are doing while I don't. The could have all just avoided the wegurts wagon or been on the Piss wagon and let all the stupid town lynch wegurts or jumped off the wagon (YT). My "6+" and there are "prob scum on both sides" are two separate thoughts.

I mean looking at both wagons

(11) wgeurts -- pisskop, Venmar, beeboy, grapes, Suzune, Rob13, Nicole Mimi Tithel, Elyse, SirCakez, popsofctown, RadiantCowbells
(7) pisskop -- wgeurts, Almost50, CooLDoG, T S O, Maxous, Nero Cain, YT2980


Piss is prob scum. Rob is prob scum. Mimi likely flip scum here. And I still don't trust cakez or beeboy. Eh thats atlest 5 alreay.

Now on the piss side I think YT is scum, if cakes flips scum I might want to lynch Max since they have a connection. Could maybe see TSO huffing and puffing that he 'caught DW in a lie/slip and ran with it. He also hasn't been vey active as he was d1. I think you are prob scum for 3rd party hunting.

Who do you think is scum and why?

[Nero Cain]

Nero is reading the thread but is refusing to be helpful

'cause I don't have a super huge post count? Yeah piss off with that shit.

[Nero Cain]

Rob is prob scum. Mimi likely flip scum here.

What? How does this make sense?

What makes you so certain that they are not opposite scum factions? I mostly think Rob is scum b/c his argument that wegurts needed to be lynched so he couldn't use his 2nd shot was stupid as shit.

[Nero Cain]

He also argued that a 2 shot Gladiator wouldn't be possible. Both of those arguments seem pretty stupid but then again he did think Gore/Johnson/sankey for AP was a fair trade so is that it, we are just going with he's randomly stupid?

[Nero Cain]

Blame Pisskop for being blind and not looking at the votecounts.

I rather just assume he's scum that hammered to cut short the day also I'm kind of interested in why TSO has a town read on him.

[Nero Cain]

If we could prioritize getting rid of one of the mafia factions

this makes me VERY wary since scum has more reason to get read of the other faction then the other.

TSO is obv scum.

VOTE: YT

The lurking accusation against me is very very poor but I I think this game is majority scum and both sides know that I'm not on their team and pointing and shouting "OMG HE'S LURKING, LOOK AT HIS POST COUNT!" is a fairly simple, if hollow, accusation. I'm posting each time a I get on and I've been far from contenless.

[Nero Cain]

Nero: claim

you claim

[Nero Cain]

He already did. Claim.

no.

[Nero Cain]

Nero: claim

you claim

It has been done

oh ya, that 1x lynchproof bullshit.

[Nero Cain]

I really don't care what you and cakez think.

[Nero Cain]

Any particular reason not to?

I see no reason to just 'cause a few scummy/dumb players what me to. I planned on talking about my view of the setup later but IF this was a 6/18 set up leaving a 5/7 scum:town ratio then I see little reason to mass claim.

[Nero Cain]

We should be voting sircakes or TSO btw.

vote:TSO

I agree with Rob here. The not YT team/vig/sk should be shooting him.

[Nero Cain]

Any particular reason not to?

I see no reason to just 'cause a few scummy/dumb players what me to. I planned on talking about my view of the setup later but IF this was a 6/18 set up leaving a 5/7 scum:town ratio then I see little reason to mass claim.

There are not many town left. The mafia have to cross kill. Honestly it is in the mafia's best interest to side with the town right now. This is our chance to figure out who is mafia because they need to look good to take out the other team. I want to capitalize on that advantage because it is one of the few we have left. Therefore, I see no reason why you are playing your cards so close of chest. With so many dead townies we can check for balance in roles to decipher the actual townies from the remaining scum.

If you want to talk about setup now is a good time.

fair enough, still not claiming b/c a few scumbutts want me to.

[Nero Cain]

claimed:
unlynchable
gunsmith
tracker

tbf there is prob scum in there.

[Nero Cain]

I think she's more on the slow side of things.

[Nero Cain]

I mean honestly? She's been tunneling me most of the game and her only good vote has been on Almost and she hasn't really been pushing hard on anyone so sure I could see some possible scum motivation there but I mean...non of you fucks are pro-town to me so I have to sort through and find the shortest short straw.

Also do you think Titus is a good scumhunter?

[Nero Cain]

Either way, I have been scum reading you from the start.

And you've been wrong from the start so...

[Nero Cain]

ah lets not forget Max's claim of FN.

[Nero Cain]

In a game of this size the sk needs something to give them more of a fighting chance.

Why are so you so certain there is a SK in this game?

[Nero Cain]

ah lets not forget Max's claim of FN.

I can verify it. He visited me last night.

Wait...he's more than a 1 shot?

[Nero Cain]

In a game of this size the sk needs something to give them more of a fighting chance.

Why are so you so certain there is a SK in this game?

There are three kills each night. I assume the vig would not mistake the towns goal thrice therefore one must assume Sk.

really? He hasn't killed scum so you assume its an SK seems pretty faulty to me.

[Nero Cain]

ah lets not forget Max's claim of FN.

I can verify it. He visited me last night.

Wait...he's more than a 1 shot?

So Max is basically an IC at this point aight.

[Nero Cain]

Seems reasonable to me Nero.

not to me. I don't think Venmar or Piss were necessarily bad shots at all. Though if we assume that the kills are in order and all the shots were from the same spot then the third killer killed Venmar Piss and Titus. That Titus kill makes it either an SK or really bad vig.

[Nero Cain]

oh whatever, I don't care anymore. I'm just a vault hunter.

[Nero Cain]

yes vanilla Captain Scarlett

[Nero Cain]

lol nope

[Nero Cain]

lol no

[Nero Cain]

I want to solve this game and can't decide which of the

3 scum

should die first.

there are more then 3 scum in this game so hello slip.

[Nero Cain]

like beeboy just liteally confirmed that he's hunting for the other team.

[Nero Cain]

The 3 scum are the people I am flip flopping on.
You, Almost50, TSO.

There's 2 at the most since I also think TSO/Almost are scum so give me your top 6 scum reads.

[Nero Cain]

I want to solve this game and can't decide which of the

3 scum

should die first.

there are more then 3 scum in this game so hello slip.

You just pulled a dwlee - the one confirmed vanilla townie. Is this calculated or genuine, I can't really tell.

Fixed.

Why should I lie about my role?

[Nero Cain]

there is PROBS some confirmation bias there as I think Beeboy is super scummy for how he was calling DW town most of the day then suddenly flips to scum on him.

[Nero Cain]

So beeboy will flip scum? I think that's a safe bet.

FIFY!

[Nero Cain]

I'm really liking how TSO is going after "lurkers" here. This is like scum 101.

[Nero Cain]

Lurking has been verified by two people to be Nero's scum meta

and both Titus and Wegurts confirmed that this is town me. Why are you taking the advice of Suzune (and whomever else) over them?

There's definitely no Vig, unless they are using Random.org to take their shots or some bullshit and I highly doubt that.

I think 2/3 of the shots have been decent. I agree that there's most likely an SK I just thought that Suzunes "it hasn't hit scum so I won't believe a vig claim" was kind of stupid. I've also been wondering about just one big scum team and then sk/vig.

I also find it annoying how only one vt has died so far like wtf.

honestly there probably was only one. In all the larges I have played there is usually only one.

I mean in today's meta and all it seems like "role madness" is the big thing these days but I've been in a ton of games with more than 1 vt.

Since he has No sweeping opinions

Well maybe you should read?

I wouldn't be surprised if Nero is the SK tbh.
He is playing in such a way where he would make it to end game while also not committing to as much as other players.

I still like the TSO lynch but if Nero is the SK we should lynch him first.

@Suzune thoughts?

What have I not commented on?

This sounds aqhole hell of alot like scum since they have more motivation to want the SK lynched then town does.

The resistance to his wagon makes him scum

there is actually VERY little resistance to my wagon. Like Max is the only one who said anything about unvoting me and YT has said he doesn't want me quick hammered but otherwise I don't see this resistance you speak of.

[Nero Cain]

I'd shoot beboy prob since his stance around DW was scummy and his role prob confirms him as scum. Like I don't really buy two town commuters in the game and his role is p similar to Aafter.

[Nero Cain]

Also notice how Aatfer was a Compulsive Focused Bodyguard. He's an AUTO commuter and I'm assuming that he just auto commutes wich seems pretty similar.

[Nero Cain]

Idk, what is the point of a scum that commutes every night?

There are ATLEAST 2 killing rolls not on your team. Scum are going to have protection. A scum commuter could be that protection. Also we had a town DAY KILLER wich makes a bit of sense in the set up for scum unkillables.

[Nero Cain]

you know, set up wise 6 scum

IS

25% but at the same time that just seems really really low. Even with an sk it still makes it a 7/17 setup wich I guess is pretty possible. But ok...lets just go with we started with 7 scum meaning there are 6 still out there.

Beeboy
TSO
Almost50

are my top 3


Rob13
YT2980
SirCakez

maybe.

[Nero Cain]

Like you being a random af vt after playing in such a way that pushes you to end game and doesn't cooperate is a lot weirder than me being a commuter.

*shrugz* I post here when I have time. I was maybe a little lurky on d2 but that's all 'cause the game was going so fast and I was doing other things. But I mean you and Cakes going "OMG that claim is bad!" like WHAT? Neither of you two would have the setup knowledge to know if that was a bad claim or a good claim. And its my role. Why should I lie and claim something I'm not.

[Nero Cain]

I've been posting my opinions and thoughts when I get here so.....but I guess it really doesn't matter 'cause you are scum and know that I'm not on your team.

[Nero Cain]

Suzune - in your ISO you said lurking was Nero's scum meta. Link?

when I get home to my laptop it is yours, hard to copy on my phone. Basically he lurks until he finds someone to tunnel. Tunnels then when reason is beyond logic. But the minute you start to poke holes in the logic, the facade falls apart. Since he has No sweeping opinions I am having trouble pushing him. But I saw shades of it this morning.

Here is the original case from the game against him: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p7033682

Suzune, there was a reason that it took a guilty on me to get a lynch on me in that game. Your case wasn't any good and I easily poked holes in it. The

ONLY

reason your read on me is picking up traction is 'cause both faction know I'm not on their team.

[Nero Cain]

@YT you asked me what sircakes has done that I thought was scummy. I didn't like the way that he mocked TSO or the way he was pushing DW to not sheep. Like, really? Cakes was

SCUMREADING

DW but was being friendly and helpful?

Nothing else really poked out at me as scummy and those were things he did on d1 so *shrugz*

Titus also had a scumread on him and that was playing in my mind too.

[Nero Cain]

TBF TSO also slipped that there were two teams of 3.

[Nero Cain]

scum vig is stupid. A scum vig would only be X-shot.

[Nero Cain]

The big reason that think Almost is scum is 'cause pushing DW as a 3rd party so I had considered the idea of a big scum team. Like, if the scum team was 3 you would

KNOW

there is a second team but if you replaced into a big team you'd not think that. If Almost was on a small team why would he be 3rd party hunting? Si I had considered a scumteam/sk/vig setup and didn't really want to out the vig. Mass claim prob worked out though b/c Beeboys claim makes it very likely he is scum.

[Nero Cain]

My kingdom for a dayvig.

Though it is pretty funny that both scum factions think I'm on the other faction.

[Nero Cain]

well that makes a little more sense. Though You calling it an "auto commuter" kinda seems off. Like you claimed your real role and got slack for it so you backtracked.

[Nero Cain]

WHA WHA WHA

[Nero Cain]

I've been scumreading you since day 1. There is no "just started"

[Nero Cain]

If anything, nero is the weakest player alive.

nope. Just the mislynch du jour. Like even if say there are 6 scum alive scum can basically push anything they want and both sides will hop on. Like NO ONE is defending me and there's been virtually no traction away from my lynch. There might be a little now but thats only 'cause I'm here.

[Nero Cain]

I've been scumreading you since day 1. There is no "just started"

You just started to try and get a wagon going on me by saying I scum slipped.
I was neyer your top priority (although I was 2nd or 3rd) until you needed a way to escape your lynch.

I don't have priority. If I think someone is scum I lynch them. But also this "I'm the weakest townie. Oh woe is me. I'm a victim here!" doesn't really make me think town.

[Nero Cain]

I'm going to buy into the 3/3/1/17 setup here so when I saw you post 3 scum reads it looked alot like you were hunting for the other team.

Also your

ATE

is scummy as fuck.

[Nero Cain]

Why should I vote one scum read over the other? I mean, its honestly fucking retarded. Like even if I switched my vote to you and still continued to post against TSO and others they are going to use the same shit argument. Like I only have 1 vote and I don't singular hunt b/c well...6 scum are left. Like the chances of me not getting mislynched today are p slim b/c both factions thing I'm on the other faction.

[Nero Cain]

ok why is no one defending me? Where is the push away from me?

[Nero Cain]

You didn't want to cast doubt on your teammates so you told them not to defend you.

So your team has day chat. Nice

[Nero Cain]

the whole "I'm lurking" thing is trash. Scum aren't cross killing b/c they are can't scumhunt worth a damn

[Nero Cain]

tinfoil says he redirected Rob

[Nero Cain]

First thought is that there are WAY too many instigation roles. I am tentatively buying the second commuter.

[Nero Cain]

If Almost flips town it's probably gg though <.<

It wouldn't be GG with two scum teams. You know something we don't?

[Nero Cain]

You know, there was some talk earlier about how we seemed to have roles like 2 in each category so I've been playing around with that idea. Elyse and YT have the odd claims out and I don't know where to put Grapes and Varsoon at.


16 grapes (Mad Moxxi, Vault Hunter Universal Encryptor) Was Killed on Night 3
01 Varsoon (Mr. Torgue, Vault Hunter LOUDENER) Was Killed on Night 1
Elyse - Claptrap, Conditional Miller Neighbourizer
YT2980 - Fiona, 1 shot unlynchable


19 Titus (Angel, Vault Hunter Courier) Was Killed on Night 1
Maxous - TK Baha, Friendly Neighbor


Almost50 - Face McShooty, Self Re-Director
09 PeregrineV (Gaige, Vault Hunter Strong-Willed One-Shot Lightning Rod) Was Killed on Night 2


13 CooLDoG (Dr. Zed, Vault Hunter Doctor) Was Killed on Night 3
23 pisskop (Janey Springs, Vault Hunter Conditional Bodyguard) Was Killed on Night 3[/quote]


03 Nicole Mimi Tithel (Rhys, Vault Hunter Data Scanner) Was Lynched on Day 3
popsofctown - Colonel T. Zarpadon, Dead Thread Oracle

10 Dwlee99 (August, Vanilla Vault Hunter) Was Lynched on Day 1
Nero Cain - Captain Scarlett, Vanilla Town
SirCakez - Axton, Vanilla Town


T S O - Helena Pierce, Town FBI Agent
Flubbernugget - Yvette, Ascetic Vanilla Cop
07 RadiantCowbells (Sir Hammerlock, Vault Hunter Cop) Was Killed on Night 2
Rob13 - gunsmith

beeboy - Lilith, Even night Commuter
15 Venmar (Zer0, Vault Hunter Odd-Night Commuter) Was Killed on Night 2

17 wgeurts (Athena, Vault Hunter Two-Shot Gladiator) Was Lynched on Day 2
Suzune - Roland, Loved SuperSaint


This also means Cake is lying about his VT claim and 2 of Rob, TSO and Flubber are scum. Or it could just be all coincidence that we have role pair things.

Thoughts?

[Nero Cain]

Neighbourizer=//=town.

[Nero Cain]

This is pretty flawed. Almost everyone in Borderlands uses guns, it is a FPS after all :/

^
still, the only ppl that would have them are cops, mafia etc. Mimi was

KIND

of a cop but OC says Rob just lied to get rid of a somewhat powerful role.

[Nero Cain]

And they can't both be scum why?

[Nero Cain]

Cakes, you made a big deal about me not playing to my VT role, how has Suzune played to her supersaint role?

[Nero Cain]

I didn't say anything about you not playing to your role. Pretty sure that was someone else.

must have been Beeboy or something.

[Nero Cain]

I cannot trust that as far as I can throw it because it could be a scum team.

Who are you talking about here? Me and Flubber?

[Nero Cain]

I cannot trust that as far as I can throw it because it could be a scum team.

Who are you talking about here? Me and Flubber?

With so few vanilla town results. I think it would not be unreasonable for that to be a fake claim the ability to check vanilla townies.

this is extremely reachy.

Why have you not been playing your supersaint role? Why, and you were the one that brought up the whole town are in pairs, do you not think that applies to the vts?

@Beeboy Why are you not suspicious of Suzune for not playing to her role?

[Nero Cain]

Can't tell if this 2nd sk theory is scum trying to mislead town or just that-badtown. TSO slipped that it was 3-3-1, although its possible that could have been deliberate misinformation but with 3 kills the 2 scumteams and a SK make the most sense. I find the idea of 2 SKs rather ridiculous especially considering Almost was a 3rd party. While a 9/15 setup is possible a 8/16 divided into a 3/3/1/1/16 setup makes a little more sense to me than a 3/3/1/1/1/15 setup.

*shrugz*

[Nero Cain]

vote:Suzune

[Nero Cain]

If there are four scum left and an sk. There would be three townies

your math is pretty horrible. There are 4 town alive right now assuming the 6 scum+sk+Almost game start. Lets say you are really an SS if you were town and they hammered you we'd go into a 3/3/1 if mafia hammers or 1/3/3 if the sk hammers.

For that reason I am

somewhat

considering a no lynch. The SK/single scum faction have more motivation to shoot scum then they do town and with 4 town it gives us a little bit of a buffer if they make stupid shots.


Nero Cain
Flubbernugget
Suzune
Maxous


beeboy
SirCakez
Rob13
Elyse
popsofctown
^
is

KINDA

where I'm at right now.

My meta/gut says this is not how Flubber acted last time as scum, true he could have improved his scum game but no one seems particularly protown atm so I'm going to run with this for awhile. Max is prob town. I'm a little worried that he's not dead but that could just be scum playing the whole "confirmed town isn't dead they must be scum!" and sure Max/Suzune/Elyse pulling that as scum isn't impossible. In the last game we played so voiced how hard she had scum hunting and she's doing the same thing here. Its possible she'd do it regardless of alignment and it would be pretty null. TSO was p much confirmed scum with the way he lurking hunting and she was doing the same thing so that gives me a little pause.

For Elyse she is NOT showing the same frustration when alot of her reads have been wrong. Its also hard not to read into TSO having reads on everyone BUT Elyse and Beeboy. I can't really remember anything useful from Pops so he's a bit POE. OC still says Rob lied to get Pie lynched. His arguments for lynching Wegurts were fucking horrible.

I'll read some tomorrow and see how I feel.

[Nero Cain]

hrmmmm....

[Nero Cain]

@Nero, explain why flubber is town, cause I'm not getting that.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=60340 is my last scum game with him and he just feels different to me in this game. Also TSO pushing on him makes me think scum not with TSO so he's 33% confirmed town based on that.

I submitted my night action on T S O last night, because I was hoping to catch him in a lie. If he was SK claiming FBI Agent, that would usually mean returning a result of no weapon, which would be an easy way to get rid of one of the kills out there.

This was extremely suboboptinal use of your night action. The SK is

NOT

the biggest threat to the town and you hunting for him when TSO was likely to get lynched anyways and finding mafia is what town needs to do.

Flubber being scum and fake claiming a guilty on me is not an impossibility. Rob is scum and my town flip confirms cakez as scum.

[Nero Cain]

I know that I'm town.

Aren't you townreading Rob?

[Nero Cain]

for the sake of the argument: I'm town reading Flubber.

Rob has a guilty on Nicole/fakeclaimed a guilty. You are fussing at me that I don't think its 100% that Flubber faked a guilty on me but thats hypocritical as fuck 'cause you don't think Rob faked a guilty on Mimi.

[Nero Cain]

^
scum

[Nero Cain]

this game was already bastard when Skull put a Jester in it.

[Nero Cain]

I'm telling the truth about my role, it says nothing about Flubbers role except that he's either fakeclaiming scum or town with a redirected result.

[Nero Cain]

pops can you quote some posts of yours where you were talking about how my play was so scummy previous to today?

[Nero Cain]

This is rubbing me the wrong way tbh.

Weren't you the one that was all like town are in pairs of 3. Do you think someone claimed a pr that was actually a vt?

[Nero Cain]

meh it should be groups of 3 not pairs of three.

If you believed that then why were you voting me?

[Nero Cain]

My problem is if Flubber is lying then Rob is probably also lying.
I doubt we would ha\/e 2 fake cops in this game.

Rob can be lying without Flubber having to lie.

I'd lynch Rob over Flubber.

[Nero Cain]

also I'm like 66% confirmed town btw unless you think TSO was trying to bus me which is pretty stupid b/c I was his

SOLE

scum read.

[Nero Cain]

meh it should be groups of 3 not pairs of three.

If you believed that then why were you voting me?

You could be a \/anilla Goon, the groups don't share alignment necessarily.
Also I think I could ha\/e found a coincidence.

this is a point. What do you think of cakes?

[Nero Cain]

So I can be a vanilla goon but cakes can't?

[Nero Cain]

My big hang up with Rob is that his reasons for lynching wegurts were dumb, and his actions have been shit. So it looks like scum going out of thier way to NOT give any meaningful results.

Mod is Suzune told when she looses her modifier?

[Nero Cain]

Nero just \/ote pops with us if you keep flailing around I am going to \/ote you again.

Why are you in such a rush?

[Nero Cain]

I feel as though you are trying to look relaxed to get town reads.

Cakez could be scum covering for Nero

????

[Nero Cain]

I am SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO gladt that I was right about Cakes to begin with.

[Nero Cain]

vote:Rob

[Nero Cain]

beeboy
cakes
rob
flubber/elyse?

pops

[Nero Cain]

plus following actions make no sense as scum.

Really? You think a guy who didn't use his action 1 night and then used a very suboptimal action on TSO make sense as town?

[Nero Cain]

To me Rob's use of actions have been extremely scum motivated so I feel more confident that he'll flip scum. I also don't like how Cakes is defending him. Like, I can't even tilt my head far enough to see how Cakez thinks Robs use of the GS has been protown. Its also odd that Beeboy was all "well the town roles are in groups of 3" yesterday, conveniently forgets it to hop on my wagon. Then argues that I could have been a vanilla scum but not Cakes...NOPE!

I also kinda think Pops 5379 was the SK reaching out to Flubber, whom he thinks is scum.

Which, in my mind helps explain why Beeboy is in such a rush to lynch pops.

Nero just \/ote pops with us if you keep flailing around I am going to \/ote you again.

Since the scum fear the SK more than town.

So Rob, cakes, beeboy team?

[Nero Cain]

hence

beeboy
cakes
rob

flubber

/elyse?

pops

[Nero Cain]

I said the roles are in pairs of 3 not town roles and to pro\/e that I used the scum body gaurd flip in my theory.
What stops you from being a \/anilla Goon and you don't want to fake claim a role you can't back up?

So when I flip town VT you'll be all over Cakez right?

[Nero Cain]

^
point

hrmmmm...

[Nero Cain]

See it seems like its soooooooooooooooooooooooooo easy for you to believe I'm scum but you shy away from Cakez flipping scum. And it just doesn't make sense to me...like any of this.

[Nero Cain]

Rob my biggest problem with you is that we went into night with a 5/1/5 split. And you were like "oh eventhough I have a much better chance of hitting mafia or clearing a townie I'm going to investigate a claimed cop (who would have had a gun anyways) on the 9% chance that he's really the SK" That was such a suboptimal use that you deserve to be lynched regardless of alignment.

Like I really struggle seeing this as a protown move AND even though you say "oh I don't think TSO would have gotten lynched" there WERE alot of players calling him scum and I'm p sure he was the leading wagon at some point.

Wich reminds me, I should take a look at the transition from a TSO wagon to a A50 wagon.

but anyways, after you flip scum I'm going to lynch Cakez and Elyse and whomever else is so hesitant to vote you.

[Nero Cain]

tell us more.

[Nero Cain]

so you think there are two vts in this setup?

[Nero Cain]

and when I flip town what is your plan?

[Nero Cain]

so you think there are two vts in this setup?

do you?

gut says no since I think Cakez is scum scum scum.


Is there anything besides that nonsense you posted yesterday that you have a problem with regards to me?

[Nero Cain]

Are

n1-gun on mimi
n2-blocked
n3-didn't use your action?
n4-targeted a player that died.

your correct actions Rob?

This whole overdramitic "woe is me I can't trust my action" sounds really really fake to me. Like ok, you've got 1 false positive and you are wigging out?

[Nero Cain]

Rob, don't you think there's a bit of a cog did between "oh man, I don't trust my results" and "you should totally trust Flubbers though"?

[Nero Cain]

like the fact you are so willing to trust Flubbers but you won't trust your own is just such a silly thing.

[Nero Cain]

no, I know my role. He either has a false positive or is lying scum.

[Nero Cain]

I think you're lying.

What makes you think I'm lying beyond a "flubber claimed a guilty"?

[Nero Cain]

^
pops laying the groundwork to push me as Robs buddy when he flips scum.

[Nero Cain]

I'm fine with Nero hammering Suzune I guess. Still think Rob is a scum-lead counterwagon.

When Rob flips scum should we lynch you? Why or why not?

[Nero Cain]

explain to me how is actions are town motivated?

[Nero Cain]

yes

[Nero Cain]

I think he's just scum that lied about being a GS to get Pie lynched and is claiming shitty use of his ability so he doesn't have to give out any results. Like the whole not using his action on n3 and targeting TSO n4 are so underwhelming that if he's town he should never be given a pr again.

[Nero Cain]

Rob, why do you have faith that your action would be able to catch TSO in a lie but not faith in doing anything else?

[Nero Cain]

Cakez there's still a small window of opportunity here. Like you can prob gain a modicum of town cred if you turn on Rob now but your buddies won't be able to help you when he flips scum.

[Nero Cain]

When I flip town, if this came isn't ove lynch the fuck out of all of Rob, Cakez and Pops.

[Nero Cain]

^game

[Nero Cain]

or I guess maybe run up suzune and let Rob hammer, I mean it is kinda weird she was so convinced I'd come out as vanilla.

[Nero Cain]

tbh I starting wavering back and forth on you. Like just randomly all the sudden you just started talking about how I was so scummy when there was a guilty claimed on me and it felt very "any way the wind blows" but then I kinda got this vibe that maybe you are playing weird on purpose. But yea you are probs scum.

[Nero Cain]

Max and Cakes will try to talk you out of a Rob lynch tomorrow (assuming he doesn't eat bullets) do NOT listen to them.

[Nero Cain]

honestly...pops is probs sk...and Rob/Cakes are the not Hyperion scum team. I kinda think its beeboy and TSO pushing lurkers yesterday makes me think not Flubber so I'm wrong about Beeboy and its a Rob/Cakes/Flubber team? I mean Flubber wasn't doing ANYTHING except coasting on that guilty. So Elyse is Hyperion scum? But she was so hesitant to vote scum Rob too.

Although I did wonder if there was just 1 scum team wich is why it would make a ton of sense to fakeclaim in a 4/4/1 setup. If that was the case the SK absolutely has to shoot mafia tonight.

[Nero Cain]

Max, I feel bad for you since you should feel bad for yourself but I doubt you do.

[Nero Cain]

a Rob/Cakes/Flubber/Elyse team would make a bit of sense too but where was the 2nd and 3rd shots coming from? I mean the idea of 2 SKs is not impossible but it seems like a silly idea since 2 scum teams seems like the simplest explanation. But If scum knew they were at 6 the chance of a 2nd scum team is very very small so they knew it was 2 sks? Who brought that up, cakes and Elyse?

[Nero Cain]

she did something and got demodded and prob left the site.

[Nero Cain]

Rob, if your team wins you need to Thank Max 'cause he put me at l-1 wich allowed you to hammer. B/c once you got lynched and flipped the other team (assuming this is MB)I'd be pretty much confirmed town and Flubber would look really weird and prob get lynched and of course I'd get Cakez lynched.

[Nero Cain]

Now that I understand what was going on better I can understand why Rob was wigging out and I'm sorry for thinking it was an act. I still think your actions were silly. Like even if you thought it was a bastard role not using your action 1 night and targeting someone with a large ammount of eat on them seem like both a waste.

[Nero Cain]

HEAT