California Trilogy: City of Angels - Off Stage (Game Over)

[MafiaJin]

MafiaJin: why did you choose the players you did?

Also, and I preface this with

I do not want you to reveal who the assistant producer is if you know

, but do you, as the director, know who all the players with roles are, including the assistant producer?

I do not wish to comment on these topics.
-SSK

[Gaspar]

People are scumhunting in the extremely early game, which is a good thing,and you seem to be jumping way ahead to "are you really willing to lynch him just for that?", which just seems odd; obviously no one is going to lynch yet, we can't anyway. So why are you trying to discourage people from scumhunting?

Also, as far as it goes, I think the attacks against Zwet make sense here. They're not especially strong, but they're logical.

From his statement, "There's a good chance he's scum.", I assumed that he would be willing to lynch since I know that I would lynch someone who I thought there was a good chance was scum.

But the notion "good chance of being scum" itself is not well-defined. It is an entirely relative term. A "good chance" of being scum in endgame is vastly different than "a good chance of being scum" pre-Day/Scene 1. In this case, I would conjecture that the "good chance" of being scum means "slightly more than the default 25-33% based on conventional game setups."


As far as the On-Camera decisions / Off-Camera lynching goes: I believe that we should desginate, right now, either the Director of Photography role or Director of Audiography role to signal to the on-camera players when we have made an off-camera lynch.
I agree that we should take longer to make lynches rather than shorter, but at the same time I think that drawing each scene out three weeks will dilute the importance of what is said off-camera.
My ideal scenario would be this: On-Camera, people mill about and discuss the On-Camera decisions to be made, while Off-Camera, we play to lynch scumbaggoes. Once the Off-Camera people have arrived at a lynch, the Director of Photography (for example -- I really don't care which one it is) -- goes and googles up some (SFW, please) image of somebody dying, indicating that we have made our lynch decision. At that point, the actors On-Camera can make their choice and we can keep the game flowing reasonably.


In other news, I am confirmed innocent, and I'm 99% sure that Count de Morcerf is innocent.

[Gaspar]

EBWOP: Hydras, please sign off on which one of you is making any individaul post, for EVERY post throughout the game. Transparency in hydras is important to me, and no protown hydra has any reason to hide who is making which posts.



kthxbai

[Gaspar]

TRIPLE POST!

Okay, so SL already made that request... I second it.

[Gaspar]

MafaiJin: The only question I demand you answer ASAP is why you chose to put

yourself

on-camera. This indicates to me that you're more interested in choosing the On-Camera choices than on participating in Day One, which concerns me.

[Bagel Eating Cowfrog]

Are you sure that being on camera means you can't even see the off stage thread? I can't tell from the rules and I would like clarification. If it does, then gaspar's suggestion is an eminently sensible one. I can't see any reasonable way scum could manipulate such a thing without entirely outing themselves, so I propose we simply pick randomly, and I don't see any reason to waste time: Photography is 1, audiography is 2.



Secondly, I don't really like signing posts as a hydra (for meta, see me as frog dodging hydra with Jdodge in Adel's recently finished DHSDSMM games). I don't think it helps with meta as much as might be supposed, since many posts we'll make this game will probably contain composites of ideas suggested by all three of us and it may affect meta in other subtler ways too (for example, frequency and detail of posting might be changed by the fact that I have two partners to bounce ideas off - either it could keep me more interested in the game or mean that I am more careful between posts.) However, I don't think it's actively detrimental to sign posts and dahill/cow have already said they think it's a good idea to, so there would be little point in me holding out.

I like a zwetvote. His play reminds me of my early scumplay, in particular newbie 297 (an air of trying too hard).

Oh, and I guess this is obvious but we should avoid condorcet ties if at all possible since we'll only get a scumlynch if both players are scum. In other words, an almost certain mislynch.

-Shanba

Dice tags removed. Please refer to the Post Content section of the Rules regarding allowed tags. - Mod

[Mighty Orbots]

As far as the On-Camera decisions / Off-Camera lynching goes: I believe that we should desginate, right now, either the Director of Photography role or Director of Audiography role to signal to the on-camera players when we have made an off-camera lynch.

FTR, we (and by we, I mean Zorblag) have already found some music for this exact purpose, so we're ready.

In other news, I am confirmed innocent, and I'm 99% sure that Count de Morcerf is innocent.

Wat.

-PZ

[Gaspar]

Are you sure that being on camera means you can't even see the off stage thread? I can't tell from the rules and I would like clarification. If it does, then gaspar's suggestion is an eminently sensible one.

Quote removed. Do not quote the moderator. - Mod

[Talilan]

Lastly, the people On Camera should try to take as close to the 2 week maximum as possible as 3 days is definitely not enough to decide on a lynch, especially for the first couple of days.

I agree, we should leave it at least about 9-10 days (but not so late as to risk not getting a clear majority) before we hammer on camera

That is unless we get the cue which I think Zorblag is gonna give us which means you've reached a lynch. I fully support using the sound man like that.

Like, a tortose might mean "slow down, we need more time", while a rabbit might mean "ok, we're done." Something like that.

Sounds good, if you can think of any more useful cues (because that's already covered by Mighty Orbots to some extent) do tell.

From his statement, "There's a good chance he's scum.", I assumed that he would be willing to lynch since I know that I would lynch someone who I thought there was a good chance was scum.

If I had to choose someone to be lynched, right now, it would be him. That doesn't entail that I wanted him lynched immediately, without further opportunity to provide more tells as to his alignment (and I don't know why you'd think I would want to lynch him right now?)

I like a zwetvote. His play reminds me of my early scumplay, in particular newbie 297 (an air of trying too hard).

What do you think dahill's downplaying of zwet-tells says about his alignment?

I (ortolan) have made every post except 46, which was Talitha. I should stop hogging Carrie, but she wants to shine whenever she gets a more substantial role than her Scream 3 cameo.

[Mighty Orbots]

To make the previous post clear, when I play Leonard Cohen's "Closing Time" it means that the off stage thread is ready for the on stage thread to make their decision no matter whether it's been a lynch or not. I hadn't realized that we would be able to talk ahead of time so I prepared Ugly Duckling's "Slow the Flow" as a song to post at the start to remind the on camera folks that the off stage crew might need time to converse and lynch as well as the Leonard Cohen one which was supposed to let them know that discussion had ended.

We've got 3 other pieces of information that we can pass on through zwetschenwasser and Mighty Orbots. What else do we want to be able to let the on camera people know? If there's anything too complicated we can use the stuntman to get someone on camera right away to pass things on but we should try not to use that if unless something unexpected comes up. What else do we expect we'll need those that can't see this thread to know?

Further, since I can say it while people on camera in scene one can see it we almost certainly want to do whatever the advocates say in the first scene. Unless we got particularly unlucky we should have at least one town advocate in the scene. If the two advocates disagree then one of them should almost certainly be scum so the scum has good reason to fail to deceive us right at the start.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Gaspar]

Posting a song or photo to say "we need more time" should not be necessary. As long as the On-Camera plyers know to wait until you post "Closing Time," they should not choose.

[MafiaJin]

MafaiJin: The only question I demand you answer ASAP is why you chose to put

yourself

on-camera. This indicates to me that you're more interested in choosing the On-Camera choices than on participating in Day One, which concerns me.

So that at least one town player will be in the Scene. Or at least that's my reason.

-SSK

[MafiaJin]

MafaiJin: The only question I demand you answer ASAP is why you chose to put

yourself

on-camera. This indicates to me that you're more interested in choosing the On-Camera choices than on participating in Day One, which concerns me.

So that at least one town player will be in the Scene. Or at least that's my reason.

-SSK

EBWOP:And also how does being on camera =/= participating in D1?

[Thok]

I assume we get to see the on camera thread. We could pass information suggesting how the Off Camera group feels about the On Camera decision.

This assumes that the Off Camera group actually has something useful to say about the On Camera decision, and it's possible (OK probable) that having the Off Camera group discuss the On Camera decision will distract from from having the Off Camera group discuss who to lynch.

[elmosaurian]

We've got 3 other pieces of information that we can pass on through zwetschenwasser and Mighty Orbots. What else do we want to be able to let the on camera people know?

Well, when we lynch someone and find out their alignment, that might be a useful thing for the on-camera people to know, since that could help them figure out if they should trust their advocate or not, if they're keeping careful notes about this thread and who they thing might be connected to who. That's be a pretty simple thing to communicate; all you'd need is a picture of their avatar, and then either a picture of an angel for "good guy" or a picture of a demon for "bad guy".

[Mighty Orbots]

Yeah, I agree that the Ugly Duckling track isn't needed anymore which is why I want us to settle now what we want to use the two pictures and one other song to indicate.

MafiaJin, it looks like the ones on camera aren't part of the lynch process; the decisions on camera will take 9 players out of the probably more interesting discussion (especially day one) and put them in a holding pattern. Your job seems to be something of a 4-shot day jailkeeper to me.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[MafiaJin]

Gaspar wrote:
MafaiJin: The only question I demand you answer ASAP is why you chose to put yourself on-camera. This indicates to me that you're more interested in choosing the On-Camera choices than on participating in Day One, which concerns me.






Why do you feel that on camera is not participating? I would love to see your logic on that. Also, are you assuming the day 1 lynch is more important than the decision?


You can still read my posts I will be posting. And you can read my vote in the decision as well as anyone else that will be on camera. I assumed a decision is more important or at least equally important to a lynch reading the rules (if we win decisions we can no lynch to day 7 to get to endgame under best circumstances; if we are lynching badly we can no lynch to salvage endgame still).

Also the assistant director was forced into the first scene. Its important for him to be able to read me. As long as he thinks I am innocent ( and is innocent himself) he should let me stay as director. If this job gets put in scum hands in later scenes they can force 4 innocents into a scene to shorten the majority needed etc etc.



@Orblots- I will assume if you play someones public role theme/name in title of music(some role themes are evident others would be a little harder to define a theme) that will be in support in favor of their idea/post/current other person/thing they are voting- as a general rule of thumb. Feel free to change that before the camera rolls. And no offense Orblots, but the on camera people will probably be taking 9-10 days anyways. If for instance scum is about to be lynched and they are the sound crew for instance, they may try to end the day early by giving us a false signal.

-Sajin

PS: The unmarked posts were mine.

PSS: I guess I can save the RP stuff for on camera. Here I was just acting the part of director anyways.

PSS: I think you can lynch someone on camera, correct me if I am wrong.

[Mighty Orbots]

I assume we get to see the on camera thread. We could pass information suggesting how the Off Camera group feels about the On Camera decision.

Well, like I said, day one that shouldn't be much of an issue. It's easy to deal with that though. If the off stage players think that the advocates decision shouldn't be followed (and they're agreeing) I'll play "New York City" by They Might Be Giants.

If the Advocates disagree then I'll play "I Will Survive" by Cake if the off stage crew agrees with curiouskarmadog and I'll play "The Gambler" by Kenny Rogers (the Muppet Show version) if the off stage crew agrees with Panzerjager.

I'd be surprised if any of those came up.

Well, when we lynch someone and find out their alignment, that might be a useful thing for the on-camera people to know, since that could help them figure out if they should trust their advocate or not, if they're keeping careful notes about this thread and who they thing might be connected to who. That's be a pretty simple thing to communicate; all you'd need is a picture of their avatar, and then either a picture of an angel for "good guy" or a picture of a demon for "bad guy".

Do we learn the outcome of the lynch before the scene ends? Reading the rules it looks ambiguous. I'll check with mith.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Rawr Hydra]

Checking in briefly, can someone IM Kore and tell her to log onto MS? I'm away from my own computer this week, don't have AIM and this P.O.S. machine won't run the web based version of it.

-OGML

[Mr. Grey]

Mod Note:

Lynches will be determined by a majority vote if it happens before the end of the Scene; the outcome will be posted at the end of the Scene.

[Mighty Orbots]

@Orblots- I will assume if you play someones public role theme/name in title of music(some role themes are evident others would be a little harder to define a theme) that will be in support in favor of their idea/post/current other person/thing they are voting- as a general rule of thumb. Feel free to change that before the camera rolls. And no offense Orblots, but the on camera people will probably be taking 9-10 days anyways. If for instance scum is about to be lynched and they are the sound crew for instance, they may try to end the day early by giving us a false signal.

If we want themes for each player I'd like to establish them ahead of time but especially day one I don't think that it's that likely we'll need to indicated anything about particular players (if others disagree then let me know and we'll set up a system.)

As for the worry about me (or zwetschenwasser) providing false information to those on camera there are ways we can deal with it should it become an issue. We've got the stuntman to replace in and give warning about that, we can set up a signal from the other of the two of us (if zwetschenwasser passes on information that you shouldn't trust I'll use "Some Postman" by The Presidents of the United States of America) and even if there was some sort of success the perpetrator would be lynched within the next couple scenes.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[MafiaJin]

Also orbots, realize we cannot see this thread while we are on camera. We are also unable to quote. So...I copied the signals you set into notepad and I suggest others to do the same.



-Sajin

[Gaspar]

MafaiJin: The only question I demand you answer ASAP is why you chose to put

yourself

on-camera. This indicates to me that you're more interested in choosing the On-Camera choices than on participating in Day One, which concerns me.

So that at least one town player will be in the Scene. Or at least that's my reason.

-SSK

Unless you're insinuating that there are 9 scumbags (John Locke, Valentine Wiggin, Count de Morcerf, Huey Lewis, Randy Jones, and the four people you chose), there would be "at least one protown player" in the scene anyway. I don't buy this as a worthwhile reason at all.

By "Day One," I mean the lynching process that occurs on Day One. As far as I can tell, the choice we make On-Camera will be largely random, and will not necessarily enable us to find and kill scum. However, guaranteeing that you are participating

in a lynch Off-Stage on D1

is what I would consider a far more worthwhile protown reasoning.

The point is, that the finding and lynching of scumbags -- which is ALWAYS the primary weapon of the town -- takes place Off-Stage. You chose to take yourself out of this process and protect yourself from a possible lynch (as we cannot lynch players On-Camera). I want to know what you think is so important about making these On-Camera decisions that made you believe that being On-Camera is more beneficial to winning the game than being Off-Stage.

[Mighty Orbots]

Current soundtrack messages:

"Closing Time" - Leonard Cohen: Discussion is done offstage, make your decisions.
"Slow the Flow" - Ugly Duckling: More time is needed offstage. Don't make your decision yet (obsolete)
"New York City" - They Might be Giants: Off Stage we think the advocates are lying.
"I Will Survive" - Cake: Offstage we think CKD is telling the truth as an advocate.
"The Gamber" - Kenny Rogers (muppet show version): Offstage we think Panzerjager is telling the truth as an advocate
"Some Postman" - The Presidents of the United States of America: zwetschenwasser is lying with his pictures.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Gaspar]

Define "we." Does that refer to Might Orbots specifically?