Street Racers: London (Game over!)

[Nero Cain]

Redscum lynches get you half credit at best, each and every one of them were either led or co-led by bluescum

Just to toot my own horn here. I kindaish lead the Anen wagon.

[Cephrir]

Last I checked, TSO wasn't blue scum.

[PeaceBringer]

and for calling it a mistake you fail to realize the psychology of the situation and the players. TWIE was checked out. AA9 was awol and frustrated town. Nero had been committed to Pine. He was not about to take out HI. If I had simply locked onto nero and stayed there till deadline it also would have assured my being killed. So please tell me, sir arrogant bro, what exactly is the play you think I missed making my action a "mistake." And no, this is not about self-awareness. I am well aware of when I do stupid shit and I do stupid shit often. my play at that point in the game does not qualify as no other action would have resulted in different results but you can just continue to think you no better and think that you are above it all.

My main issue with your sequence of posting was how quickly you did it and the strange interaction with Pine after.

so what, it did not matter... nero or Kaboose needed to go, that was the only thing. Once got loaded up, peachy. The rest was just having fun as it did not alter anything...

[PeaceBringer]

"Town deserved to lose after 2 mislynches in a 28p game"

Do you understand how absurd that sounds?

The setup was poorly designed. StrangerCoug has taken the feedback well; the fact that you guys are the most bitter about it is pretty wtf

I am not bitter, you are an arrogant ass as you find it that it is within your perview not to comment on game but to take a shot at other players for what you proceed as mistakes, when you are even on the losing side. When you hit me upside the head I will hit back. I will NEVER play the way folks like you consider optimal, EVER.

[Nero Cain]

STAP FEEDING THE TROLL

[PeaceBringer]

point taken nero

[Pine]

Redscum lynches get you half credit at best, each and every one of them were either led or co-led by bluescum

Just to toot my own horn here. I kindaish lead the Anen wagon.

I concede that the Anen wagon slipped my mind. The fact that it was led by SK instead of Town doesn't lessen my point

Yes, as previously stated, Town got somewhat screwed by lack of crosskills. A remedy for this would have been more Town protective roles and the removal of Mafia BP roles. My point, however, is that while Town was robbed of some agency by a swingy setup swinging away from them, they

squandered

what agency they had. Town bickered among itself, generally had terrible reads, utterly failed to identify Bluescum or SK, and all of the scum lynches were implemented or facilitated by opposing scum

[BROseidon]

I'm saying that town didn't have enough agency, yes.

What they did with the agency they did have was immaterial because there wasn't enough to begin with. Town could have played perfectly and still lost because of the setup.

[Pine]

Yeah, you keep saying that, and it continues to not be disagreed with

This was a

swingy

setup. Had crosskills happened, Town could have won through no fault of its own as easily as it lost

[BROseidon]

Yes! Town had little agency in whether they won or lost!

That's bad design. Even if town has a correct EV, that's not fun.

[BROseidon]

That's all I've said, and yet you and others have gone after me for tangential reasons

[MonkeyMan576]

I don't think some town players are giving scum due credit.

[ika]

bro i have already point out it swingy we get you dont like it. but you signed up and you played its a damn game

i shows the math that town could win it (WITH NO DEATH) in 3 days flat

however it takes even more time for town to lose (100%), the game that played out is basicly what happened, tbh as long as a lone town is alive, they have a shot.

imgain if day 1 you lynched red scum, night one blue hits a red scum, sk hits red scum, and vig hits red scum: BAM one faction is obliterated and gone.

you keep talking out of "woe is town and town needs protectives" its stated /swing/ game, adding in buttfuck portectives doent fix it

heck lets do this setup with a town BP, JOAT [vest give, doc, roleblock] and we keep the other RB and doc. day one, BP gets lynched. night one Joat/RB/doc all die. now you have wated your time with them and they did jack shit.

so seriosuly your way isnt abolote or right. you jsut hate swings. i understand SC taken the feedback but it deosnt give you the right to harp on others feedback saying they are wrong and you are right

[MonkeyMan576]

I probably shouldn't have softclaimed when I did, but I didn't want any players to be lynched on wrong information.

[vezokpiraka]

Look. Games are fun when I I know I can win them. It isn't fun to play a game in which you already lost, but aren't told that.

Anyone who thinks town had a chance is delusional. Even if the town lynched two blue scum instead of mislynch we would've probably lost.

[MonkeyMan576]

The only problem with the setup was that the winner was highly dependant on who the night kills were. Less night kills would have fixed the problem, but I don't think the game was broken.

[ika]

The only problem with the setup was that the winner was highly dependant on who the night kills were. Less night kills would have fixed the problem, but I don't think the game was broken.

as the reviewer and watching it unfold i will agree there that maybe having 4nks was a little overdone but im just kinda pointing out that AT THE GET-GO town had a pretty good shot at doing fine. as the game progresses it can sway. i tink if anything i would of taken out sk so town has their own power of killing and maybe remove compulsive

[ika]

but iirc the main reason we intialy had vig eb compulsive and have a massive amount of nks was it was a 28p game and hat 2 weeks was going to apathise a lot of players

[MonkeyMan576]

Also, the people complaining about the setup aren't recognizing that nearly all the vig kills were town. If the vig had killed all scum or even most scum, the game would have been a different picture.

[BROseidon]

The only problem with the setup was that the winner was highly dependant on who the night kills were. Less night kills would have fixed the problem, but I don't think the game was broken.

Broken as in unbalanced? Maybe, maybe not, hard to tell

Broken as in mechanically poorly designed? Yes

[PeregrineV]

@SC-

Thanks for modding and thanks for letting me play! Early death, but fun while I got the play.

/in for Street Racers 4

[BROseidon]

bro i have already point out it swingy we get you dont like it. but you signed up and you played its a damn game

The game was not advertised as high swing.

High swing is implicitly bad game design. Every "good" game has some form of anti-snowballing mechanic because snowballing makes games unfun. You ever wonder why in Mario Kart all the good items go to people in the back? Why games like DotA/League of Legends make it harder to push as you get more ahead, or have shutdown bonuses when you kill people who are doing well? Why SSBM makes it easier to combo people who are at a lower percentage? These are all ways to prevent someone from taking a small lead early and becoming unstoppable.

[BROseidon]

THIS ISN'T ABOUT WHETHER THE GAME IS BALANCED FROM AN EV PERSPECTIVE, IT'S ABOUT WHETHER THE GAME IS A FUN EXPERIENCE FOR EVERYONE INVOLVED.

This shouldn't be that hard of a concept to understand.

[BROseidon]

but iirc the main reason we intialy had vig eb compulsive and have a massive amount of nks was it was a 28p game and hat 2 weeks was going to apathise a lot of players

Solutions to this problem:

1) Game-splitting (see 3 room mafia)
2) Don't design games with 28 players.

If you sign up for a 28p game, you should sooner expect the game to be a long-ass slog than one where town's ability to win is contingent on how scum play, with town having limited ability to reverse scum fucking them over.

[MonkeyMan576]

My next game design after The Karate Kid mafia is going to be a balanced 50 player game:).