FF7 Mafia (Game Over)

[ika]

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[Feysal]

I only blacklist people who have a demonstrated attitude of not taking in feedback and continuing to insist they're right about whatever it is they did.

I would argue that Saint Furcolow has crossed that line. I once inadvertently recruited Furcolow into my serial killer faction, and the next day he pretty much claimed scum and outed me as his partner. What is worse, I don't think it was just stupidity, he did it out of spite. I believe he should have received a ban for that, but he got away with it without even a slap on the wrist, and blamed me for our loss after the game. I think that is the problem, he is used to getting a pass no matter what he does, and he deliberately uses his poor reputation to defend himself. As long as everyone keeps giving him a pass, he has no reason or incentive to change.

[Feysal]

One comment I have about this endgame is that the idea to spare one scum to lynch another should have come from town to work. Coming from cornered scum, town had every reason to be suspicious.

Oddly this endgame reminded me of my first mafia game ever, which ended up with two godfathers and two townies alive. I successfully cornered one godfather and blackmailed him into lynching the other one, and it could have worked if the other townie had not in fact been a jester. I have also seen Chesskid pull it off on this site, but in both games town knew that both scum factions were alive, which was not the case here.

[ProHawk]

Good advice... unfortunately I was claiming in between stoplights on my phone, so, I wasn't really able to get real in detail.

[Titus]

Good advice... unfortunately I was claiming in between stoplights on my phone, so, I wasn't really able to get real in detail.

Cops still ticket you for that.

[mastin2]

Good advice... unfortunately I was claiming in between stoplights on my phone, so, I wasn't really able to get real in detail.

In that case, say: "Phoneposting. If you're town, hold off on voting me. I have something really important to say, but it's nearly impossible on my phone, so please wait a few hours until I'm at my PC."

I do it all the time (well, not phoneposting, but close enough), and players generally wait for me.

Seiko definitely would have been willing to give you a few hours.

[pieguyn]

^mastina knows me too well. if someone explicitly says they're gonna do something in *a few hours* or *later*, I wait regardless of my read on them.

I think the scum claim was the right move tbh.

[Cerberus v666]

^mastina knows me too well. if someone explicitly says they're gonna do something in *a few hours* or *later*, I wait regardless of my read on them.

I think the scum claim was the right move tbh.

The scum claim was absolutely the right move overall, and almost definitely the best shot at having a chance to win for your faction, I'm just not a fan of the timing.

[borkjerfkin]

it was effectively a 'leash the SK' move, which is very often proper strategy.

[pirate mollie]

it was effectively a 'leash the SK' move, which is very often proper strategy.

mebbe i am misunderstanding something. town had no chance of winning. can you plz explain to me how in this case it was a viable option for town? I mean it was only a viable option for prohawk. what am I missing?

[Xtoxm]

Lynch the meteor JK, then the two single scums kill each other at night and town win.

[pirate mollie]

Lynch the meteor JK, then the two single scums kill each other at night and town win.

that is predicated on that scum will agree to kill each other and somehow I don't see that happening.

[hiplop]

also on prohawk knowing who the other scum is

he seemed pretty sure i was town?

[borkjerfkin]

that is predicated on that scum will agree to kill each other and somehow I don't see that happening.

It's a prisoner's dilemma -- scum can only win if they are alive and the other scum is dead, which they have to pseudo-cooperate to get a chance at

If scum both shoot at town, they draw (I really am not a huge fan of the 'nobody wins' state and probably would've called it a half-win for you both) if they both shoot each other, town wins.

Scum has to correctly figure out if the other team is going to go for a draw or a full win

[pirate mollie]

that is predicated on that scum will agree to kill each other and somehow I don't see that happening.

It's a prisoner's dilemma -- scum can only win if they are alive and the other scum is dead, which they have to pseudo-cooperate to get a chance at

If scum both shoot at town, they draw (I really am not a huge fan of the 'nobody wins' state and probably would've called it a half-win for you both) if they both shoot each other, town wins.

Scum has to correctly figure out if the other team is going to go for a draw or a full win

if town helped the other team by lynching my partner in mylo there is no way I wld not be shooting town. am I unusual in feeling that way?

but it wld have been interesting to have seen it drawn out from that perspective and to have seen how ultimately it wld have played out.

[mastin2]

Well mollie, had you been alive, you would have won (or tied) no matter what. JK vs. ProHawk = JK wins.
Had you been lynched, yeah, prisoner's dilemma.

[pieguyn]

it was effectively a 'leash the SK' move, which is very often proper strategy.

leashing SKs is often a good move. the only problem is no one these days ever realizes as much and insists that a caught SK should be immediately lynched. gundam seed 2 years ago is still the last game I've seen where town was actually able to cooperate enough to leash the SK.

I'm pretty proud of it ~

[Cerberus v666]

that is predicated on that scum will agree to kill each other and somehow I don't see that happening.

It's a prisoner's dilemma -- scum can only win if they are alive and the other scum is dead, which they have to pseudo-cooperate to get a chance at

If scum both shoot at town, they draw (I really am not a huge fan of the 'nobody wins' state and probably would've called it a half-win for you both) if they both shoot each other, town wins.

Scum has to correctly figure out if the other team is going to go for a draw or a full win

if town helped the other team by lynching my partner in mylo there is no way I wld not be shooting town. am I unusual in feeling that way?

but it wld have been interesting to have seen it drawn out from that perspective and to have seen how ultimately it wld have played out.

It's not optimal play for you to shoot town there. By shooting town, you guarantee that the best you can do is tie, or end up in a king maker situation (if you both shot the same town player) with the last town player determining which scum team wins (hint: it's more likely to be the team that stopped them from outright losing the day before). By shooting at the other scum, you change your options from tie/lose to win/lose, which is a strictly superior set of possibilities, and it doesn't risk both shooting the same person.

So, on an emotional level, maybe you kill town....but that isn't the correct play, unless you KNOW the other person well enough to be 100% certain you know what they'll do.

[Sajin]

Well mollie, had you been alive, you would have won (or tied) no matter what. JK vs. ProHawk = JK wins.
Had you been lynched, yeah, prisoner's dilemma.

No because she had to alternate nights with the jailkeeper and she used the night before. Lynching hiplop would mean prisoner's dilemna of sorts with the caveat that Prohawk shooting town and mollie shooting town means mollie/Meteor wins because the following night would block prohawk and kill him. Unless Shinra no kills (or they kill the same target), mollie's night kill target does not really matter. In fact, mollie can't really draw in any scenario, if she is alive for her faction.

[Cerberus v666]

Jailkeep, not roleblock. She couldn't have stopped his kill and had hers still resolve. The end result is a draw.

[Sajin]

Jailkeep, not roleblock. She couldn't have stopped his kill and had hers still resolve. The end result is a draw.

Actually, that is true. Still prisoners dilemma in the 4 person scenario.

[ProHawk]

Good advice... unfortunately I was claiming in between stoplights on my phone, so, I wasn't really able to get real in detail.

Cops still ticket you for that.

I'd hire you to get me out of it.

[CB]

Reads were way better than my first multiball game although being scum helps a lot.

Really surprised Mollie lasted that long thought for sure she was going to die night one.

[hiplop]

i love you our little traitor<3