Machina Mafia (Game over!)

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Even some kind of Roleblocker for the scum would have been helpful.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

and don't give me "the scum kill roleblocks" because no, it doesn't, it simply makes killing Sensors/Emitters more attractive, and that's a bad game to play with a GM hidden.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

also, a word on why the Day 4 Mod Error was so egregious.

Day 4, per Firebringers own action, he was going to

kill Marquis

.

With Marquis dead, not only is that a person who would have lynched me gone, it also

Reduces the mislynch number needed for scum to win the game from 2 to 1

So we would have gone into a Day 5 Mylo, instead of a Day 8 LYLO.

Just think about the disparity behind that, and how heavily that helped town.

So, forgive me if I was fucking furious about that, Kagami given it shaped the entire course of the game to come. Do you know how trivial it is to win this game if we're in a Day 5 Mylo with 3 scum still alive? Like seriously consider that.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I don't know, I think I aired my grievances a little too heavily towards the mods this game, and Kagami didn't deserve that kind of vitriol, but I think it's really just kind of inconsiderate to sit here and tell me that you think this game went exactly as it should have.

I think my problems with this game have a ton of merit, and while the game certainly wasn't so imbalanced as to be unwinnable (as witnessed by my victory) that doesn't make it a balanced game.

I mean, it's not Saint Kerrigan's CYS game (I think tigers ate that one, but it literally confirmed me as scum through another person's role PM because I was a witch), but it's not immune to this form of criticism.

I apologize if my frustrations in the scum thread became Toxic, I simply had no where else to put my feelings and bottling them would have made me truly hate this game.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm also glad that's off my chest, because I've been stewing on it for the past little while, trying to give it time to simmer and not be so emotionally potent, and I think I got it out without being too.... uh.... mean? Awful? Angry?

/me sighs

[Lady Lambdadelta]

since she had no respect for the role-based balance of the game in making many of her kill choices.

Like this is the part that pisses me off.

I had no respect for the role based balance of the game except that every night, 1 through 4, I killed a power role, and your entire argument assumed I know which roles are who, and who is more powerful than others.

Like, it also assumed the scum who had inflitrated the neighbourhood was saying ANYTHING ABOUT IT.

>.>b

[Kagami]

also, a word on why the Day 4 Mod Error was so egregious.

Day 4, per Firebringers own action, he was going to

kill Marquis

.

With Marquis dead, not only is that a person who would have lynched me gone, it also

Reduces the mislynch number needed for scum to win the game from 2 to 1

So we would have gone into a Day 5 Mylo, instead of a Day 8 LYLO.

Just think about the disparity behind that, and how heavily that helped town.

So, forgive me if I was fucking furious about that, Kagami given it shaped the entire course of the game to come. Do you know how trivial it is to win this game if we're in a Day 5 Mylo with 3 scum still alive? Like seriously consider that.

In the scum pt, you had asked vampirate to hammer peregrin as soon as possible in order to keep Imperium quiet, thinking you had just put him at L-1 rather than lynching him.

You said later in the scum PT that you had planned to somehow convince firebringer to shoot marquis, but there's absolutely no chance he wouldn't redistribute the Alignment Sensor if he had the chance to act, and it would reflect incredibly poorly on you if you advocated doing anything other than giving out the alignment sensor that day.

In your reply on balance, over and over you say "I had to kill X because their reads were awesome." I'm sorry that your hand was forced because of strong town-players and/or weak scum-players, but the balance of the game is something that is determined independent of players' skill distribution.

[Kagami]

If games were balanced around the idea that scum should be able to kill whoever they want and still not have to worry about the PRs they are not killing, then I don't see how town would ever win.

(That's also why roleblockers are generally bad)

[Lady Lambdadelta]

also, a word on why the Day 4 Mod Error was so egregious.

Day 4, per Firebringers own action, he was going to

kill Marquis

.

With Marquis dead, not only is that a person who would have lynched me gone, it also

Reduces the mislynch number needed for scum to win the game from 2 to 1

So we would have gone into a Day 5 Mylo, instead of a Day 8 LYLO.

Just think about the disparity behind that, and how heavily that helped town.

So, forgive me if I was fucking furious about that, Kagami given it shaped the entire course of the game to come. Do you know how trivial it is to win this game if we're in a Day 5 Mylo with 3 scum still alive? Like seriously consider that.

In the scum pt, you had asked vampirate to hammer peregrin as soon as possible in order to keep Imperium quiet, thinking you had just put him at L-1 rather than lynching him.

You said later in the scum PT that you had planned to somehow convince firebringer to shoot marquis, but there's absolutely no chance he wouldn't redistribute the Alignment Sensor if he had the chance to act, and it would reflect incredibly poorly on you if you advocated doing anything other than giving out the alignment sensor that day.

In your reply on balance, over and over you say "I had to kill X because their reads were awesome." I'm sorry that your hand was forced because of strong town-players and/or weak scum-players, but the balance of the game is something that is determined independent of players' skill distribution.

Yeah, but I figured by the time that occured, Firebringer would have submitted.

There's a difference between quicklynching and turbo hammering.

If you're trying to equate the two, to somehow defend the mistake, I mean, I don't know what to tell you.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Once again, 4 nights, 4 kills, 4 PRs dead.

Not sure how I'm supposed to be "not worrying about the PRs I'm not killing" here Kagami.

the facts are just plain as day.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like it's just ridiculous, the claims you're making.

Just absurd.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like, I cant be too upset, I won and I kicked ass, but I'm so tired of this pattern.

I play practical games, with correct solutions to find unique, if ugly, ways to win.

and people tell me "oh you should have done this or that, and this is how the game works, and this is how you played poorly and you're not good just lucky".

Like, I asked you earlier, Kagami, point blank: "How can I improve?" and you came back at me with a fucking joke of an answer.

And now saying this shit and it just feels frankly insulting. I reached out looking to improve and you've just slapped me down so its like whatveer

[Lady Lambdadelta]

This game had 7 power roles and the Grand Machinist.

Of them, I figured out 2 of them during day 1. (Neighbour for titus, and Marquis claimed his Rolestop power). Neither worth killing.

Then, I killed over the next 4 nights, the other 4 roles minus the Watcher sensor who was my scum buddy.

And outed the grand machinist on day 2/3. I admit it was a mistake perhaps, killing Anti over Firebringer. that's the only questionable kill.

That being said, I had knowledge of every power role in the game by day 3. Every single one.

And you're telling me I focused only on player skill, and didn't look at power roles.

I fucking rolecoped Nacho, ffs. Like, god.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I fired 7 kills this game and 5 of them hit PRs.

Effectively, the night 7 kill also hit a PR, since it prevented the cop from being used.

and I admitted I got lucky on Night 5 wrt to the spiffeh kill and who Nether targeted.

Beyond that, like, my game focused heavily on both aspects and I am still convinced there was too much to handle.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

like, god it's frustrating.

[Kagami]

...
LLD did this numerous times. In the end, she won despite poorly performing partners, so it's quite possible she made the correct decision.
...

I never claimed you made bad decisions, I said you made decisions that

should

lead to a gamestate where town can win through PRs.

And my answer was not a joke answer.

[Tammy]

I don't think it's really cool or helpful to come down so hard on kagami for making an honest mistake. I'm sure she was frustrated enough with herself that she made a

vote count error

, which could happen to anyone and has happened to numerous mods in numerous games.

She's a human and humans have this little tick where they make mistakes. Hell even the vote counter isn't infallible. She didn't do it on purpose to hurt you, and in your rush to look at how it potentially hurt your faction, you're not stopping to allow for the possibility that it actually helped your side, which was my first take away. There's absolutely no way you can predict with certainty that nothing would have happened to change the outcome in the mean time if there would have been more time.

You did a great job there at the end and you won even though it was touch and go. You took the right people to lylo with you and you won. No matter what deck was stacked against you, you won. I understand frustration with a game. I had a usurper once who's death confirmed me as scum. but you did win!

I don't think she was insulting you with her answer. Kagami looks at mafia through mechanics and uses that as her strength in solving games, I think that you guys just have different approaches.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

/me sighs

maybe, I dunno

all I have is inside me is fire and all I am is 0 or 100, so, right now I'm 100 and it's frustrating :/

[Netherspite]

PRs of this game were the receivers. Not only they were actual PRs but they also could change their ability every night effectively.
No receivers = no PRs. If you focused on killing receivers town would have no neighborhood nor any tracker/cop/whatever by night 4 max.

[Netherspite]

And the GM can't give out receivers so losing all receivers is permanent loss of all PRs.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

PRs of this game were the receivers. Not only they were actual PRs but they also could change their ability every night effectively.
No receivers = no PRs. If you focused on killing receivers town would have no neighborhood nor any tracker/cop/whatever by night 4 max.

it's a better long term strategy but leaves open early results, given our kill doesn't stop other receivers from getting a result.

As such, blocking results from cops is priority numero uno

[Netherspite]

N1 receivers were busy targeting Titus.
Since the scum infiltrated the hood you could just kill off receivers who are going to target the sensor you'd like to prevent from having any results - it would effectively be the same as killing the sensor directly.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

yeah this assumes I had any information about the hood coming to my ears at any time.

[Netherspite]

Well TRE posted it in the scum PPT iirc.

[Vampirate]

Can't we all just mellow out and have cake?