A Song of Ice and Fire UPick - Game Over

[Frozen Angel]

But I'm not abrasive , I'm so emotionally concerned about everyone's feeling, that + I'm so emotional , sensitive and reactionary + I'm not english + I can't usually defend my cases as they are based on emotional facts.

no one can understand me.

am I right?

[Frozen Angel]

if you meant aggresive then yeah I guess my playstyle is too agressive.

[Cheetory6]

I found you abrasive this game.

[BadGirls]

More like passive aggressive and insulting.

[Frozen Angel]

but I really try to not insult and i'm really concerned about others feeling!

how is angry with me? Please forgive me if I hurt anyones feeling

[BadGirls]

This game was more of a matter of the PRs being handed out to the worst possible players imo. Otherwise, I think we win. The vig was fine.

Albert

[Drixx]

And our team wasn't even strong. We got a block and a Bus Drive, conditional Daytalk, a Venge and a non-recruitable Traitor. That sucks. That is one of the weakest 5-man teams I have ever seen.

JK's literally a block since the vig just claims the missed kill, no-one explains it, the missed kill person. It's similar to, I don't know, d3 of this game. Bus Driver is strong. 2-shot BD is not nearly as strong.

Disingenuous much TSO? You're complaining about scum's power, but that "not nearly as strong" bus driver managed to lock the Seraph Knight into protecting scum all game, and resulted in two innocents that should have been guilties from the gunsmiths. Roles are as powerful as the hands they're in.

Just look at what happened to me. I was not plugged in day one and made a sub-optimal track choice, and then misread a post as a call for results on ABR. I also wrote a complex sentence in such a way that a clause I wrote pointing out that a tracker can find someone guilty by more means than just tracking them to a dead body, and provided examples noting that where I played mafia before I joined MS the roles that ABR had claimed were universally scum roles got read as a scum slip and I was speed lynched in less time than it took me to prepared food, eat and clean up.

And you can say something like "you shouldn't have claimed" but that wasn't really on the table for me start of day 2. I came into the day on the top of the suspect pile and you've played with me enough to know that I was going to be pushed into a claim no matter what. I had nothing to say whatsoever to explain day one inactivity that wasn't an appeal to outside circumstances, and people generally view appealing to outside circumstances as only slightly better than claiming scum.

And I may not have been right at the top of the list if your bus driver hadn't resulted in an innocent on you. If you hadn't gotten the Seraph Knight permanently targeting you AND gotten yourself gunsmith cleared but instead the bus drive had been saved or used differently, then you would have had your gunsmith guilty announced right at the start of day two and that would have let me get into the game more naturally.

So ... I think the game was

swingy

and that could have been swinging one way or the other. In this particular game the swing went hard in favor of scum. You guys had some advantages gifted to you by town, and you played quite well to those advantages. You countered what would have been a hard swing against you with a single action which instead swung the game hard the other way, allowing for the IC to be killed, the doctor to be permanently useless to town, an innocent on one of your team AND pressure or ABR and myself to start day two, which I played super suboptimally.


Like ... You can talk about scenarios where the swingy nature of the game could lead to a town landslide ... but we just watched a scum team neutralize a hard town swing and decimate a town with it. I played my part badly, but if this was as town sided as you are trying to say (by pointing out the most extreme possible town sided swings and ignoring the scum sided counters) then this town would have done way better.

[Cheetory6]

Look I'm not asking for an apology.
I'm just telling you that when you play like you did this game, you're not going to sell people on stuff as well as you might if you tried to directly talk to people and didn't get overdefensive.

[Drixx]

This game was more of a matter of the PRs being handed out to the worst possible players imo. Otherwise, I think we win. The vig was fine.

Albert

Ouch. I suppose I deserve that if we're just talking about this game. I don't usually lay an egg as a PR though. (See: Mafiaception).

[Ankamius]

Was I the only one that caught Spiffeh?

[toolenduso]

I didn't really have it narrowed down to the point where I was fairly confident it was Spiffeh until pretty close to the end of the game. IIRC it was when Spiff decided he could lynch Peregrine over TWIE. I was like "that is so good for scum I have a hard time believing spiff isn't our traitor."

[BadGirls]

This game was more of a matter of the PRs being handed out to the worst possible players imo. Otherwise, I think we win. The vig was fine.

Albert

Ouch. I suppose I deserve that if we're just talking about this game. I don't usually lay an egg as a PR though. (See: Mafiaception).

And myself, Jeanne, Silverwolf, her mason buddy, all the claimed PRs Day 1 basically.

Bad

[Drixx]

Was I the only one that caught Spiffeh?

I had Spiffeh and TSO in my scum pile before I looked at the spoilers, and was then ashamed of myself because I had Wisdom and Moonlight and someone else that I should have realized was town in my scum pile. I was probably influenced a lot by the turbo lynch.

[Frozen Angel]

Look I'm not asking for an apology.
I'm just telling you that when you play like you did this game, you're not going to sell people on stuff as well as you might if you tried to directly talk to people and didn't get overdefensive.

But I must apology becuase I can't sleep with the knowledge that I hurt anyones feelings.

If me being over reactionary is the reason then I can't play mafia It can't be changed.

and I can't understand your point about talking directly with people. when I wasn't talking directly with people?!

[Cheetory6]

I was a lot more drained by other people than I was by you, but your reaction to me softly prodding you early game was a little much.
It kind of made me disinterested in interacting with you, which, if I had stayed in, I probably wouldn't have talked reads with you at any point.

[toolenduso]

Oh and sorry to cheet if I was one of the people who made you feel like quitting. I know you said it was an aggregate thing, but still. My reaction to your criticism wrt the early game drama was half genuine and half me feeling like I needed to escape town pressure if scum was going to have any chance to win the game (at that point wisdom had called out 4/5 scum and a lot of other people were catching on as well). So I kinda sorta ate'd intentionally...

All that being said I did enjoy you being in the game while you were in it.

[Frozen Angel]

well, yeah , that

I completly forgot that *shy*

Those ramps just happnes sometimes. thats why I need to use my drugs.

[Spiffeh]

tool I highly doubt you of all people made Cheetory replace out

[Frozen Angel]

I was one of those people obviously

please forgive me

[Ankamius]

I didn't really have it narrowed down to the point where I was fairly confident it was Spiffeh until pretty close to the end of the game. IIRC it was when Spiff decided he could lynch Peregrine over TWIE. I was like "that is so good for scum I have a hard time believing spiff isn't our traitor."

If I hadn't been fed up with the game enough to replace out, I think it would've been completely obvious to me sometime before I died. I think Spiffeh has enough experience with me to know how to push the right buttons since he already was hitting them.

[Moonlight]

Its just everyone just call me town all the time but noone take my reads serious.

Hmm.

If people call you Town, they believe that you believe what you're saying. If they're not taking your reads into consideration, they probably don't understand your method.

So, show them why your method works.

It also doesn't help that several people probably believe that emotions have no place in a game of Mafia. I'm not one of them, but if I don't see what you're seeing, I'll need you to explain your thoughts behind a read. And in my mind, I'll need to find these thoughts convincing.

[Moonlight]

And thanks toolen for your 6799!

[Frozen Angel]

I always try to do that

and I always fail

I can't show things to people. I suck at that part obviously. any hints?

[Ankamius]

Find the disconnect between your reasoning and everyone else's. I sometimes give people the footprints and see if they can find the path they create themselves. It usually gives me an idea of what the difference in perspectives is, but it can make people see and believe it better than just telling them.

This is from a guy that isn't open about most of his thoughts anyway, so YMMV.

[Cerberus v666]

Cerb I like to know your opinion about me and my play and how can I improve it in pv.

if anyone else has a comment I will gladly listens to

why you thought I need to make myself more obvtown in my games? Its just everyone just call me town all the time but noone take my reads serious. I can't make a case against people obviously. thats just something I can't do. the way I find scums in my games is not completly obvious for everyone. I read people mostly emotionally.

Oh, I have no problem talking about stuff publicly.

I really feel like a big part of the problem you have isn't so much the obvtowning, as the fact that your emotional reactions to things make it impossible to determine if it's just scum AtE or you just being you, and the NOISE from all of that drowns out your actual play. That makes it so even if you're doing incredibly pro-town things, nobody will notice, and nobody will pay attention to you. In addition, you do insult people a lot. Drixx said it well in Saga Frontiers post-game: If you EVER feel like you're even the slightest bit emotional, mash those keys, get that post ready...then get up, walk away from your computer, calm down, and come back and reread what you said. Even if you don't go that far, something as simple as NOT immediately responding to things with the first comment that pops into your head could go a long way to keep you from driving people away from you.

Simply put, people don't listen to individuals who lash out at everyone around them all the time, so that's something you need to work on keeping yourself from doing. I'm certain it's not intentional, which means it's something you can control if you just take the time to look over your posts calmly, instead of giving kneejerk reactions to things.

pedit: what moonlight said is also correct. I AM one of those people who believe emotions have no place in mafia, so when you give out reads to me and i can't follow your line of reasoning, it makes it really hard to listen to you. You've seen my rants about how much I hate people just relying on gut for all their reads, and that's what reading people emotionally basically amounts to. It's really really hard to convince someone who doesn't already see what you see to change their views based on how YOU'RE feeling. You need to show them. And you need to not alienate them before it comes to the point where you have something TO show them.