Borderlands Mafia [GAME OVER]

[Suzune]

As far as balance goes, I think this setup was fine. Personally, I don't think you need A50's role when you have 3-3-1 already for scum, but it's not too bad.

Was Handsome Jack able to use his dead 1-shot ability in LyLo? If so, I would have changed that too, since in that situation, LyLo is moved up a day.

beeboy gave me an out that I ran with. The story was, I would lose my loved status if the only way to achieve a lynch was for me to vote myself.

[SirCakez]

Yeah, a Flubber beeboy sircakez team WOULD night kill me.

:p
You're scary. I argued to kill someone else I think, if it's any consolation.

[T S O]

No offense, Elyse, but I have absolutely no idea how you won this game.

[Varsoon]

To be honest, even though I died early, I thought the flavor and rendered mafia mechanics perfectly fit the theme. I'm probably going to be nominating this for a scummy off of those reasons, because it's clear that Skullduggery did the homework and delivered a fantastically written and very complex game.

As a person who just spent over 20 hours drafting PMs (JUST MAKING PMS, NOT EVEN COMING UP WITH THE SETUP!!) for what I consider a relatively simple game, I understand the investment that goes into just making a setup--let alone modding a game of this caliber for this many weeks.

I think that moderators often don't get the praise they deserve. We do this for free, too. We just want folks to have fun. Yes, it's important for people to speak up when they aren't having fun and, yes, it's important for a mod to take that criticism to heart. However, the respect often doesn't show when, really, it should.

Skullduggery is one of my favorite moderators, players, and people on site. I can understand why Skull is upset over player's grievances in this game and I can understand why players would be upset with aspects of the setup. Don't let all that frustration eclipse this amazing game, though.

[popsofctown]

Considering that players are more of a limited resource onsite than moderators, it's more that "the players do this for free" in filling up a game for a mod. Supply rule in the large theme queue is "low" right now. Pretty sure it's always low.

I do not consider it to be looking a gift horse in the mouth to complain about subpar moderating. Looking a gift horse in the mouth would be complaining about a player, actually.

If you or Skullduggery do not enjoy moderating, do not moderate. Instead, as a gift to the people after you in the queue, allow the next mod to mod a game. Most mods seems to enjoy modding games, or at least I assume so. I replace into games and sign up for games as a favor to other people on this site, and I try to keep my replace out ratio very low as a favor to people on this site. I also choose not to moderate games onsite, as a favor to people on this site (I had fun the one time I modded a game though).

Moderators deserve respect the way human beings do, and I'm sorry if I fell short of that, I certainly have in the past, but not any sort of additional respect for blessing everyone with the opportunity to play mafia with eachother, since the situational reality is inverted from that. That's especially true in the large theme queue.

[Varsoon]

Wait, if it's always low, doesn't that mean there's not very many mods queuing in games?
I often see queues with the huge bold, allcaps NEED MODS.

I love modding, yo. I'm saying that a game can't be run without a mod, and that modding is a much larger investment of time and energy than playing is. A single mod can allow up to 21 players to enjoy a game experience. Yes, the opposite is true as well--up to 21 players are required for a mod to enjoy running a game. It's for this reason that we should all respect each other's time invested and strive towards an experience that benefits everyone.

I'm not saying your response is unwarranted. I'm saying that you're, right now, a vocal minority that is painting the response to this game as largely negative. This is why it is important to couple positive feedback with the negative and vice-versa. I'd be really glad to have the sort of negative feedback you're giving--it would reinforce a stronger standard for writing role PMs in my future games. Skull likely isn't handling it well because there seems to be a lot of negative feedback without much positive feedback. That's all.

Yeah, Skull made a mistake, and you're right to point that out. Yes, Skull is handling this poorly, as, ideally, a mod should always build from feedback to deliver a better game experience.

I just wanted to forward that, despite some issues in this game, the game as a whole was a fantastic game that represents the sort of dedication that I would like to see more of on-site.

[popsofctown]

You're right, I do have it backwards.

[pisskop]

I loved the game. The effort and design wasnt an issue for me.

[Cheetory6]

Varsoon gets it.

I also don't think Skull should be faulted for making one mistake. I think she'll take the criticism forward, but I don't think it's valid at all to say that this was a subparly modded game at alllllllll.
If anything xtoxm and I should shoulder some blame for not catching it either. It's sometimes hard to fully realize the implications of roles before they're actually in player's hands.

[Irelandbark12]

In

[Elyse]

VOTE: Irelandbark12

[Rob14]

but I don't think it's valid at all to say that this was a subparly modded game at alllllllll.

Just to be clear, Skull's "technical modding" (the execution of the actual game, decisions, mod responses, etc) was great, given the setup.

[Rob14]

Oh, I also wanted to say something to the people saying the game was swingy and therefore not balanced.

Swing and balance are totally separate. Swingy games can be fun; they just can get away from one faction fairly quickly. This game was pretty swingy, although it really just played out like a worst case scenario for town. The swing doesn't imply the setup was unbalanced, though, and I think that's an unfair criticism. You can dislike swingy games, sure, but plenty of people like the swingy role madness type games.

[Varsoon]

I love role madness to the point of hardly ever having vanilla roles.
That said, I always to try to minimize the swing of my games. Despite that, I just finished running SaGa Frontier Mafia, where several single players could have effectively ended the game at any point past the halfway mark.
I think that this game played out very well for the multiball setup that it was, which, if anything, is a testament to it being well-built.

[Venmar]

I've been slowly convincing my thinking that the less roles the more potentially better a game is. I don't necessarily mean highlander or all-vanilla games but I see why some like those and at the end of the day, nobody can blame the mod when the game is all about raw lynching and good day performance.

[Varsoon]

I see Open and Normal setups as avenues for that sort of setup.
I use Theme games in order to construct a set of mechanics that keeps players invested in the day performance/rhetoric.

[Venmar]

I mean, so do I, all I do is make large and mini themes with weird mechanics. I'm just saying, Highlander has been warming to me as of late and less roles but good mechanic can work too. It's just based on mod design philosophy.

[Varsoon]

Oh, yeah, I think having a strong core, public mechanic is probably more important than individual roles.
Lately, I've been building my public mechanic, then designing all the roles in the games to interact around it.

[popsofctown]

I also want to see and play more games in the "almost Highlander" territory. Especially investigative-free games.

[SirCakez]

What is highlander?

[popsofctown]

I meant mountainous.

Highlander is an MTG format where you can only use one of each card. It is also very skill intensive and often has plainish setups. And a mountain is "high" "land". My brain is weird.

[Cerberus v666]

I meant mountainous.

Highlander is an MTG format where you can only use one of each card. It is also very skill intensive and often has plainish setups. And a mountain is "high" "land". My brain is weird.

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mountainous

[Skullduggery]

The private topics are now accessible.

Atlas Corporation Private Topic
Hyperion Corporation Private Topic
Neighborhood Topic


EDIT: This is the only thing I'm going to say about this.

The function of the Gunsmith in this game was perfectly valid and sensible. My only error -- for which I have admitted fault and apologized -- was not being specific enough about how his investigations worked in his role PM. This poorly-worded role PM is what led people to believe that the Gunsmith in this game worked the same way as a Gunsmith in a Normal game. This is not a Normal game. This is a theme game. They are not the same thing.

Anyone who insists that I don't know how a Gunsmith works is an idiot, plain and simple.

[pisskop]

Lol at me being the hottest talk in the game.

[pisskop]

People cant seem to decide whether its better to write me off as a moron or respect my underlying ability to not die and make good reads.